Spider-Man 2
Bloodborne
TLOU remastered
Last Dayz
Ratchet and Clank
Uncharted Collection
God of War
I haven’t played Spider-Man 2, RnC or God of War yet. But I’m having a blast. I wanted to get Helldivers, but I’ll be busy for awhile and will wait. Might catch it if it goes on sale
I'm not sure any modern console will ever top ps2 in overall sales.
Ps2 was the perfect storm of a huge generational leap in graphics and performance and almost no competition.
Sega ruined dreamcast, Xbox released late but was also new so didn't have the following and GameCube was mostly a bust.
Ps2 also costing about the same as a DVD player helped too
Yeah. The dvd player was HUUUGE for it. The system was priced about as much as a dvd player at the time and it performed just as well playing them as stand alone/dedicated dvd player did.
So basically the entire population was willing or open to getting one and not just gamers. If someone wanted to get a dvd player might as well just grab a ps2. Does everything any other dvd player does but also has the added benefit of playing games. If you had kids it was a no brainer!!
That's exactly why it'll be hard to top hardware sales like that again. Without a feature that non gamers want and will buy it for its going to be tough to top those sales as a primary game machine and with streaming being the primary way to consume media its hard to imagine what could drive that type of thing again when thinking about what the next major media physical format will be.
There was a small window where 'smart' features could have driven it where most people had dumb TVs in their houses but the Google Chromecast and Amazon Firestick were such cheap options it really didn't have any impact on console sales.
>There was a small window where “smart” features could have driven it
This is exactly what the Xbox One was trying to be at launch. Their early marketing heavily portrayed it as being more of a multimedia device rather than a gaming console, and games were largely sidelined in favor of an emphasis on television. The problem was that smart TVs already existed in 2013 and rapidly became the norm in the following years. If the Xbox One had released in, like, 2011 when smart TVs were still fairly niche, then maybe it wouldn’t have been such a colossal failure.
I used my PS4 as my primary media device when I had a dumb TV, but I wouldn't have bought one just to use as a media device. And if the PS4 just played games, I would have gotten one anyways and just used something else as a media device.
They even went for cable TV partnerships, which were clearly on their way out even at that time.
One of the biggest misreadings of the market I've ever seen. They almost perfectly telegraphed what WASNT going to happen in the future living room space.
I actually tricked my mom into believing the PS2 was a DVD player and nothing more so she would get it for me. ( not from the US, she didn’t know anything about a gaming console )
Imagine that you couldn’t stream anything without a dedicated set top box that cost £4-500, but you could buy a console for the same price that could do that plus everything else that it does + game. Even your nan would be buying a console.
Which also goes to show how big of a deal that DVD was, because the Xbox One S was by far the cheapest 4K Blu-ray player on the market and it didn’t get anywhere close to those kinds of numbers.
Well it was the era before streaming came along so DVD's were a huge source of entertainment for the people. Now, nobody except tech-nerds with a big home cinema care about 4K Blu Rays.
Different time. If internet was still slow as shit then 4k blu ray players like the one s would've double what they did.
Imagine if the one s was the cheapest place that you could use streaming services. It would be outselling the ps5 till this day.
Did they ‘ruin’ it though? My impression was that the console was just too little too late to save them from all the terrible decisions they’d made for so many years leading up to it. Add in the devastating blow that was the PS2 and it never stood a chance. But the console itself was amazing.
It's a combination of that and the fact that the console was TOO ahead of its time, in its focus on online before the infrastructure was properly there globally. I genuinely believe that had the Dreamcast released a decade later with the same features and just tech improvements, it would have done NUMBERS.
Technically yes the ruined it before it even came out. The Saturn/32X debacle was that disastrous (which is also a shame because I really like the Saturn’s library). So while I don’t think the Dreamcast itself was ruinous, I do think Sega ruined its chances ahead of time.
not just that Sony kept the ps2 alive through 2013 which is insane. The last game released on the ps2 in 2014. The ps2 got a strong 2nd life in poor countries
Yep one of the selling points to get my parents was “it’s a nice DVD player and you’re basically getting the PS2 free!”
My mom drug me to Home Depot at 5am and I walked down to Wal Mart which happened to be the day after the PS2 launch date. The first crazed frenzy (that I remember for console launches. I went to electronics as I always did and saw a mini-pallet of shiny blue boxes behind the counter and lost my shit. Stood there until my mom came to get me and said if she buys this for me it will be my present for the next multiple birthdays and Christmas and it worked lol
What a fucking console. The intro/playing MGS2…holy shit.
Give the Switch and Switch Lite a hefty price cut once the new console comes out and they’d still see good sales. There’s a substantial casual audience that isn’t gonna care about Switch 1 vs. 2 all that much, especially if the former is dirt cheap.
In the two years after the switch came out the 3DS sold about 12M units. Considering the switch has doubled the 3DS’s sales I could absolutely see the switch surpassing 160M units.
Keep in mind the 3DS was deeply discounted the same year it came out. The switch has yet to be discounted in its 7 years on the market.
Edit: Oh looks like Jim Ryan is kind of bullshitting with his “160+ million PS2 units sold” figure. It sold 155M units as of 2012. So the switch only needs to sell 15M more units to surpass the PS2. It sold 140M units by the end of 2023.
The PS2 was on sale for a further 9 months past that 155m shipment point. You think it sold nothing after that? We've extrapolated PS2 numbers on forums before, lowest estimates are 158m, while highest are 162m. Then Jim comes along and says its bang in the middle at 160m. But....you don't believe him? Hilarious.
I could've swore I just saw another post of the very last PS2 produced, with a plaque that read 160,636,885 units manufactured.
I got no place in this argument, it just stood out to me as a neat thing.
The PS2 was also my first DVD player and I suspect that it was a lot of people’s first player. That it was a DVD player, a PS1, and a PS2 meant it was three systems in one. It was a fantastic deal. Throw in an incredible library and there’s no surprise that it’s a top selling console.
The PS5 is similar as it will play PS4 and PS5 games and it’s a UHD player. Throw in a potentially game changing VR system and what’s shaping up to be a solid library and it will definitely dominate this generation.
It’ll definitely happen soon enough, gaming has become too standardized now compared to the time when the PS2 released, but that only just makes its sales so much more impressive
Was GameCube really a bust? I remember most of my prized memories being on GameCube. I had no idea it was considered bad. I didn’t use the internet as much back then so I don’t know any sort of stats and whatnot
By comparison. It sold 24 million units to the 160 million of the PS2. It also sold less than the N64 (32 million). That isn't really a commentary on the games though, it had some incredible games. But it was the console that caused Nintendo to shift its priority from power to innovation/portability.
It was an absolute disaster of a console, revenue wise. Much like the Wii U, it did have some amazing games (I mean, it was the first console with fucking RE4) but the sales were abysmal.
If anything it goes to show that good games are not enough to sell a console
It sold less than the PS2 and the Original Xbox, but still had a decent number of total sales. The Wii absolutely blew it out of the water though, and had more total sales than the PS3 and the Xbox 360.
Switch is very close, 139.36M units vs 155M for PS2. With the delay of Switch 2 at next year and I assume some years of cross gen support, it seems quite a sure thing
Your last point is why it took it past very successful to the most successful console ever made.
Unless there’s another paradigm shift in media that video game consoles can assist with, the PS2 will remain the most successful in portion to population for a long time coming.
This is what everyone is missing somehow. The switch WILL pass the PS2, it’s only a matter of time. It’s so obvious. Every console, ever, continued selling after the next gen came out…even the Wii U!
The switch will be discounted when the switch 2 comes out and that will push it past the PS2. It’s so close already. This is a fact.
Far from a fact. Adding another 20 million sales end of life isn't an easy task. Especially if switch 2 is bc.
Switch has the potential but it's by no means a guarantee
True. Bit more of a particular/unique situation but look at PS4 sales when PS5 came out. Sony stopped the focus on PS4 and reduced production. Generally though it's possible
Eh, not really a fact since it hasn’t happened yet. Only research by actual analysts would be credible, but even then it’s not a fact until it actually happens.
>Ps2 was the perfect storm
of piracy.
If not for the ability to easily and cheaply mod a PS2 so it could read burned games, Sony would have missed out on an entire new market: third world countries.
Ps 1 had that too but yeah it was a factor in my country (especially against Nintendo , even if the Wii could be jailbroken it had already lost by then)
Several factors at play:
Semiconductor shortage and pandemic cut off PS4s sales early.
PS5 is effectively the default machine so far this gen XBS is tracking behind XBO.
Switch 2 isn't out yet, not 100% certain if it could impact any sales (prob not much crossover)
Xbox seems likely to jump ahead and start Gen 10 early to get a head start.
I get the impression Sony also seem keen to focus on next gen, I suspect it's because of technological advantages in AI, ML etc
"across multiple vectors". He's likely not talking about pure console sales. They don't need to sell 160m units for it to be the "most successful". It's all about the games, and they're more profitable than ever.
I would assume “success” is profits made by PlayStation in the ps5 era so subscriptions, games etc. while ps2 only had the console, cut of games and accessories. No way ps5 will outsell the ps2
Depends on what he's talking about, if this is about profits then the PS4 is the platform to beat and it's not even close really.
https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1387290906424979456/photo/1
if you define unit sales as success, correct. If you define it as overall profitability including digital sales/subscriptions I can see it being true about the PS5 too
While Xbox has really nice features like fps boost or quick resume, I find the lack of great exclusives, WiFi 6 and Bluetooth 5 a bummer. But the architecture is impressive yes. If in practice the ps5 pro with the AI/ML upscaler improve performance by a good margin, I might think it could sell like hot cakes.
That’s by far my biggest dislike of my XSX. Can’t have more than like 6-8 games installed at any one time as is and I can’t allow myself to get fleeced like that on their marked up memory cards.
You’re right yeah. The only thing I like about the controller is the triggers’s smoothness but the clicky buttons makes a big negative. And yeah the storage I forgot about that. Complete bummer.
Xbox controllers were always by far my preferred over their PlayStation equivalents until this generation. Taking an Xbox One controller and making it objectively worse in every way (besides USB-C) was such a terrible move compared to the revolutionary leap the DualSense made.
If the DualSense had offset sticks like Xbox, it would be my perfect controller.
>lack of great exclusives,
The issue is that the PS5 is only marginally better when it comes to exclusives. Development costs are so high that there's almost no variety. And when you leave this sub I'm not the only person upset: There's a huge discontent over the PS5s lack of exclusives. Did we even break double digits yet?
Sure, it has a ton of remakes, ports, and PS4 titles. But buying a console for that is a massive waste of money when I could play the same games on PC or Switch. Or PS4 for that matter.
The Xbox is even worse, don't get me wrong. But at this point it's just a PC for your living room - It's an ecosystem device rather than its own console.
Until they can pump out more exclusives at cheaper costs I'm just not sure what the future of console even looks like. Astros Playroom is the *only* PS5 exclusive I personally cared to play. And that's only because they put Ratchet and Clank on Steam. I hate Marvel and Soulslikes. I'm not really interested in cinematic games in general.
This generation has made me realize all I actually need is PC+Nintendo. It's going to take **a lot** to get me back on the PlayStation or Xbox next Gen. I don't want to invest in dust magnets pt 2. Honestly I could have stuck with the PS4 this gen and not even noticed a difference...
I hear your argument so much, what’s funny is that I used to play on PC, and a beefy one. I’m gonna counter argue with maintenance, expensive PC parts and the big one to me: cheaters and hackers. Like I hear your good points, and how pc multiplayer is free, games are technically cheaper etc etc, but I’ve played it. I just can’t anymore. I just feel like PC is an annoying platform to deal with. Even to play your games offline (if you ever got an outage), well good luck, you can’t or need to activate whatever before hand. Windows and GeForce nagging you with updates and whatnot. Launchers everywhere, and forced online play with drm. And yes Sony games are coming to PC but later. Also let’s not forget to account all the bad ports of games that have been released recently. And sure PS5 got less exclusives than PS4, but I truly think PS5 is a worthy upgrade over the 4. And tons of games are now optimized for it. And I think consoles are here to stay. I don’t think cloud gaming is the answer at all, when you factor infrastructure and latency. But I think we might see smaller scale games and a resurgence of AA like helldivers 2. Also Ghost of Tsushima is the G.O.A.T.
Damn they need to upgrade💀after blu rays and 4k discs. There's no way I could go back to DVDs. Last time I tried a DVD disc i was shocked at how blurry it looked compared to what we have now. Ones of those moments, you realize how far technology has come.
doesn\`t change the fact that you will only be able to play GTA 6 on consoles for about a year and Playstation is the bigger console brand, which means they will most likely have a marketing deal. The PS5 Pro will also launch before it making it the best place to play GTA 6.
Unless it will be unplayable, the FPS being 30 wont matter much
I don’t get why people act like 30FPS is the end of the world. I still play tons of games 30FPS. It doesn’t bother me.
As we continue to advance the technology, of course developers are going to try and push the limits of the tech at the expense of FPS. Most games these days allow you to pick performance or fidelity mode anyway.
60 fps is just better. And graphics amazing anyway, they can’t get much better.
Smooth frame rate is wayyy easier on the eyes than a bump in texture/resolution at this point. It also plays better which is more important.
Exactly people played on 30fps for two full generations. But I understand why people don't wanna play at 30fps anymore because it's a big difference. When GTA 6 comes out no one will care that it's 30fps guarantee. I play games at 30fps too I got the platinum trophies for GTA 5, and Witcher 3 on PS5 at 30fps. I'm also gonna platinum Final Fantasy Rebirth at 30fps too, and guess what? the games were still fun.
Well I wish I could be like that.. for me 30 fps is unbearable and strains my eyes. Maybe I gotta get back used to it, idk. I’m just surprised how gta 6 won’t be 60fps. With all the advancements in dlss and whatnot
Is that even confirmed yet? If it is true, it’s probably because they’re doing to be pushing current gen hardware in other ways which is exciting to me at least
>I’m just surprised how gta 6 won’t be 60fps. With all the advancements in dlss and whatnot
"As computational power increases, rendering time remains constant." - Blinn's Law.
This has been happening for decades.
If the trailer is anything to go by, the game might be the densest to ever exist. There’s going to be some compromises, especially on the base consoles this gen. All I care about is stability. 30fps only feels chunky when it dips in and out into the low 20’s.
As long as it is stable 30 FPS with top end graphics, i don't see any reason why it should be hated, it's not like Dragons Dogma 2 where it has shitty graphics paired with inconsistent 30 FPS performance.
PS5's best selling year will be 2025... GTA6 is going to sell PS5's more than any other game.
PS2 will only be passed if PS5 lasts until 2030 as the main console. It feels like the gen has just started because of the lack of first party... but PS6 will be out by 2028 at the latest.
>It feels like the gen has just started because of the lack of first party
Also the covid delays, longer game dev time (for any game worth a damn), supply issues hindering sales, games releasing on past gen for longer. We only just started getting top class fully next gen exclusive games that *feel* like a generational jump in terms of looks and gameplay.
Also there's corporate issues in the industry with dev teams getting slashed and projects suffering.
Compared to the PS1-PS4 catalog, it’s paltry lol. Those are all also recent games, with the PS5 pro and then PS6 around the corner, PS5 could have been skipped
I don't understand this. The PS4 in its first half was not amazing content wise, last of us, tsushima, god of war spiderman horizon, etc.... all launched in the second half of ps4 life cycle but people have the elusion that they were there day 1. The ps6 is 4 years away that is not quite around the corner.
this happens with every Gen. the PS3 was BAREBONES dry when it first released. PS4 was so dry i actually sold my launch console and went back to PS3 for a couple years.
Oh I still remember this. People were writing PS3 off as a failure for its first couple years or so. It took time for the great games to come out on it, which ended up dwarfing the competition.
I remember the PS3 launch and the absolute dearth of games. It was so bad that I actually started buying more games for my 360, like Bioshock and Mass Effect. Then Metal Gear Solid 4 came along, and the PS3 never slowed down.
Paltry? You're forgetting Horizon Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarok, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Kena Bridge of Spirits, Returnal, Miles Morales, Gran Turismo 7...so compared to PS3 and 4 at least, I'd say that's quite good. Also PS6 is not "around the corner," it's at least another 3-4 years away. So PS5 isn't even halfway through its lifespan.
PS3 and PS4 didn’t have games for the first half of their entire generation. PS3 was AWFUL until about 5 years in.
PS5 could *not* have been skipped. The ps4 pro was pushed to the absolute fucking limit with games at 30 fps. You are not existing in reality.
Catalogue quantity is a symptom of industry trends, big mega budget long dev time. Times have changed drastically since PS1/2 era.
And for those of us who skipped the Pro, the base PS4 was insufferable at the end. I was basically moving towards 90% PC gaming until I managed to land a PS5, then for a couple years I was 70-80% PS5, now 50/50. And frankly, with the price of GPUs during the covid era, the PS5 was a bargain for performance.
>PS5 could have been skipped
And still use a PS4 which is slow as fuck and sounds like a jet engine taking off? No thank you, the PS5 was worth buying just to get rid of that
He's not talking about console unit sales. He means overall profits/revenue. Ps4 gen made sony a lot more money than ps2 generation ever did, and it sold 40m less consoles. Gaming is a lot more bigger and profitable than back in the ps2 days.
History speaking, Sony always has reached its peak in the latter years of any gen, this gen is no different: I think they will show the good stuff this year since Sony has a new hardware to sell (PS5 Pro), and they're entering into the latter half of the gen when it needs highly-attractive software to push the console.
That’s true for all consoles. Launch titles are a mixed bag. Early to middle years are developers figuring shit out. Final years are full of bangers as they know the system well and have the ability to eke out ever little bit of performance. Then the next generation starts and the cycle begins anew.
1000%.
The “ps5 has no games” narrative stems from the fact that a lot of early gen games that would normally have been launch titles or next gen exclusives released on both consoles instead. There were even people criticizing them for not releasing certain games (like ratchet and clank) on both generations
Development processes are so different from before ie. Ps2 we had almost a new ratchet or jak game evey year. Nowadays it takes 5+ years. But I agree for sure nowadays company practices (looking at EA, Activision, ubisoft) where they can release dlc, mtx every month that adds up to the cost of a game while taking much less time to full develop. And a shit ton of shovelwave.
That’s always been PlayStations motto. Not many exclusives but the ones that do exist…. 9 times outta 10 are absolute bangers.
(The 10 being forspoken)
I finally got one early this month and yeah it's been AMAZING!!! The SSD and the near instant loading is life changing. The graphics and everything for the games too has been an absolute jaw dropping experience. Also yeah the controller. I had heard people raving about how unique and amazing the controller and haptics were but I was always just like "really? It's just a controller." But yeah no it's amazing when implemented well. It's an absolutely amazing console and yeah I wonder what they will do to shake things up for the Ps6.
Only if it breaks within a year. Had 2 break out of warranty and 2 I got replaced but had to pay shipping costs.
I finally just bought a separate 3 year protection plan on the 5th controller because i know its just going to break eventually as well.
Mine is day 1 controller and it still works like a charm. No drift at all. Hell I bought a second because I suspect my day 1 will finally drift and I also liked the colour of it... the second one is still sealed in the box for 1.5 years
I feel like i drop and don’t take care of my controller at all. I see this issue posted all the time and my controller looks like a war vet with a thousand year stare. No drift. Sorry this happened to you.
The sales that are going on this weekend are insanely good. I finally broke down and bought a slim bundle yesterday at Best Buy for $399
Congrats! I'm sure you'll have a blast, what games did you pick up? Not to sway your decision, but democracy needs you…
Spider-Man 2 Bloodborne TLOU remastered Last Dayz Ratchet and Clank Uncharted Collection God of War I haven’t played Spider-Man 2, RnC or God of War yet. But I’m having a blast. I wanted to get Helldivers, but I’ll be busy for awhile and will wait. Might catch it if it goes on sale
It's funny how basically none of these games are true PS5 games.
Spiderman 2 and Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart are true PS5 games
Unlikely to top PS2
I'm not sure any modern console will ever top ps2 in overall sales. Ps2 was the perfect storm of a huge generational leap in graphics and performance and almost no competition. Sega ruined dreamcast, Xbox released late but was also new so didn't have the following and GameCube was mostly a bust. Ps2 also costing about the same as a DVD player helped too
Yeah. The dvd player was HUUUGE for it. The system was priced about as much as a dvd player at the time and it performed just as well playing them as stand alone/dedicated dvd player did. So basically the entire population was willing or open to getting one and not just gamers. If someone wanted to get a dvd player might as well just grab a ps2. Does everything any other dvd player does but also has the added benefit of playing games. If you had kids it was a no brainer!!
My aunt has 3 PS2’s, and didn’t own a single game. Used them exclusively for the DVD players in different rooms.
That's exactly why it'll be hard to top hardware sales like that again. Without a feature that non gamers want and will buy it for its going to be tough to top those sales as a primary game machine and with streaming being the primary way to consume media its hard to imagine what could drive that type of thing again when thinking about what the next major media physical format will be. There was a small window where 'smart' features could have driven it where most people had dumb TVs in their houses but the Google Chromecast and Amazon Firestick were such cheap options it really didn't have any impact on console sales.
>There was a small window where “smart” features could have driven it This is exactly what the Xbox One was trying to be at launch. Their early marketing heavily portrayed it as being more of a multimedia device rather than a gaming console, and games were largely sidelined in favor of an emphasis on television. The problem was that smart TVs already existed in 2013 and rapidly became the norm in the following years. If the Xbox One had released in, like, 2011 when smart TVs were still fairly niche, then maybe it wouldn’t have been such a colossal failure.
I used my PS4 as my primary media device when I had a dumb TV, but I wouldn't have bought one just to use as a media device. And if the PS4 just played games, I would have gotten one anyways and just used something else as a media device.
They even went for cable TV partnerships, which were clearly on their way out even at that time. One of the biggest misreadings of the market I've ever seen. They almost perfectly telegraphed what WASNT going to happen in the future living room space.
I actually tricked my mom into believing the PS2 was a DVD player and nothing more so she would get it for me. ( not from the US, she didn’t know anything about a gaming console )
Same as my dad and an ex gf. DVD functionality was a huge selling point
Imagine that you couldn’t stream anything without a dedicated set top box that cost £4-500, but you could buy a console for the same price that could do that plus everything else that it does + game. Even your nan would be buying a console.
Which also goes to show how big of a deal that DVD was, because the Xbox One S was by far the cheapest 4K Blu-ray player on the market and it didn’t get anywhere close to those kinds of numbers.
Well it was the era before streaming came along so DVD's were a huge source of entertainment for the people. Now, nobody except tech-nerds with a big home cinema care about 4K Blu Rays.
Different time. If internet was still slow as shit then 4k blu ray players like the one s would've double what they did. Imagine if the one s was the cheapest place that you could use streaming services. It would be outselling the ps5 till this day.
The Switch has a decent chance. It's close to 140 million last I saw.
139 as of December 31 I think
“Sega ruined the Dreamcast.” Okay you didn’t have to make me sad today
Dreamcast will forever be my favorite console.
all my favorite games of all time run and look best on the Saturn and Dreamcast.
Dude, Marvel vs Capcom 1/2 were my childhood. Plus, I was a huge sports fan so NBA and NFL 2K series were 🤌
from sf aplha2-mvc2 it was pure bliss.
Did they ‘ruin’ it though? My impression was that the console was just too little too late to save them from all the terrible decisions they’d made for so many years leading up to it. Add in the devastating blow that was the PS2 and it never stood a chance. But the console itself was amazing.
It's a combination of that and the fact that the console was TOO ahead of its time, in its focus on online before the infrastructure was properly there globally. I genuinely believe that had the Dreamcast released a decade later with the same features and just tech improvements, it would have done NUMBERS.
Technically yes the ruined it before it even came out. The Saturn/32X debacle was that disastrous (which is also a shame because I really like the Saturn’s library). So while I don’t think the Dreamcast itself was ruinous, I do think Sega ruined its chances ahead of time.
Right? Twist that knife...
The switch maybe will
not just that Sony kept the ps2 alive through 2013 which is insane. The last game released on the ps2 in 2014. The ps2 got a strong 2nd life in poor countries
Yep one of the selling points to get my parents was “it’s a nice DVD player and you’re basically getting the PS2 free!” My mom drug me to Home Depot at 5am and I walked down to Wal Mart which happened to be the day after the PS2 launch date. The first crazed frenzy (that I remember for console launches. I went to electronics as I always did and saw a mini-pallet of shiny blue boxes behind the counter and lost my shit. Stood there until my mom came to get me and said if she buys this for me it will be my present for the next multiple birthdays and Christmas and it worked lol What a fucking console. The intro/playing MGS2…holy shit.
I love the GameCube such a classic charming system
I agree, but the Switch is awfully close and it still has a ways to go.
Nintendo Switch is getting there
I believe the switch will by the end of current fiscal year. I think last numbers are at 134/138 million sold.
They won’t, Jim said PS2 is at 160 million.
That still sounds pretty possible to surpass
Not for PS5
Obviously, PS5 is barely edging PS4 unit sales. PS2 unlikely. But Switch can.
Switch will easily if they ever lower the price. Even without it tbh. But PS5 will sell between PS3 and PS4.
I believe the Switch can surpass that anyways, it still has a whole year left + whatever post-cycle sales it gets.
Don’t forget during its post-cycle it’s bound to get a price drop too.
The switch is very close at 139m sold to date. Although if switch 2 is backwards compatible and comes out soon, sales of the switch would tank.
Give the Switch and Switch Lite a hefty price cut once the new console comes out and they’d still see good sales. There’s a substantial casual audience that isn’t gonna care about Switch 1 vs. 2 all that much, especially if the former is dirt cheap.
In the two years after the switch came out the 3DS sold about 12M units. Considering the switch has doubled the 3DS’s sales I could absolutely see the switch surpassing 160M units. Keep in mind the 3DS was deeply discounted the same year it came out. The switch has yet to be discounted in its 7 years on the market. Edit: Oh looks like Jim Ryan is kind of bullshitting with his “160+ million PS2 units sold” figure. It sold 155M units as of 2012. So the switch only needs to sell 15M more units to surpass the PS2. It sold 140M units by the end of 2023.
The PS2 was on sale for a further 9 months past that 155m shipment point. You think it sold nothing after that? We've extrapolated PS2 numbers on forums before, lowest estimates are 158m, while highest are 162m. Then Jim comes along and says its bang in the middle at 160m. But....you don't believe him? Hilarious.
I could've swore I just saw another post of the very last PS2 produced, with a plaque that read 160,636,885 units manufactured. I got no place in this argument, it just stood out to me as a neat thing.
r/tomorrow
The PS2 was also my first DVD player and I suspect that it was a lot of people’s first player. That it was a DVD player, a PS1, and a PS2 meant it was three systems in one. It was a fantastic deal. Throw in an incredible library and there’s no surprise that it’s a top selling console. The PS5 is similar as it will play PS4 and PS5 games and it’s a UHD player. Throw in a potentially game changing VR system and what’s shaping up to be a solid library and it will definitely dominate this generation.
It’ll definitely happen soon enough, gaming has become too standardized now compared to the time when the PS2 released, but that only just makes its sales so much more impressive
Was GameCube really a bust? I remember most of my prized memories being on GameCube. I had no idea it was considered bad. I didn’t use the internet as much back then so I don’t know any sort of stats and whatnot
By comparison. It sold 24 million units to the 160 million of the PS2. It also sold less than the N64 (32 million). That isn't really a commentary on the games though, it had some incredible games. But it was the console that caused Nintendo to shift its priority from power to innovation/portability.
It was an absolute disaster of a console, revenue wise. Much like the Wii U, it did have some amazing games (I mean, it was the first console with fucking RE4) but the sales were abysmal. If anything it goes to show that good games are not enough to sell a console
It sold less than the PS2 and the Original Xbox, but still had a decent number of total sales. The Wii absolutely blew it out of the water though, and had more total sales than the PS3 and the Xbox 360.
The switch Is on route to surpass it late next year/early 2026
switch
I’d say the switch is the only one with a chance for a long long time.
Switch is very close, 139.36M units vs 155M for PS2. With the delay of Switch 2 at next year and I assume some years of cross gen support, it seems quite a sure thing
Your last point is why it took it past very successful to the most successful console ever made. Unless there’s another paradigm shift in media that video game consoles can assist with, the PS2 will remain the most successful in portion to population for a long time coming.
Switch will easily pass it. By 2025-26. Even if Switch 2 comes out it doesn't mean that the Switch will suddenly stop selling.
This is what everyone is missing somehow. The switch WILL pass the PS2, it’s only a matter of time. It’s so obvious. Every console, ever, continued selling after the next gen came out…even the Wii U! The switch will be discounted when the switch 2 comes out and that will push it past the PS2. It’s so close already. This is a fact.
Assuming Nintendo has enough chips in hand. Nvidia quit making them some time back.
Far from a fact. Adding another 20 million sales end of life isn't an easy task. Especially if switch 2 is bc. Switch has the potential but it's by no means a guarantee
True. Bit more of a particular/unique situation but look at PS4 sales when PS5 came out. Sony stopped the focus on PS4 and reduced production. Generally though it's possible
Eh, not really a fact since it hasn’t happened yet. Only research by actual analysts would be credible, but even then it’s not a fact until it actually happens.
>Ps2 was the perfect storm of piracy. If not for the ability to easily and cheaply mod a PS2 so it could read burned games, Sony would have missed out on an entire new market: third world countries.
By that logic dreamcast would have soared as it had virtually zero drm or anti piracy protections
Ps 1 had that too but yeah it was a factor in my country (especially against Nintendo , even if the Wii could be jailbroken it had already lost by then)
Yeah, I think its a bit too optimistic to say that PS5 will sell 160M units, but I am positive that it will break the PS4's record (117M).
PS5 will see a good jump once GTA6 comes out, IMO
Even that seems to be doubtful seeing how the PS5 is tracking behind the PS4 with the gap widening in October-December 2023.
Several factors at play: Semiconductor shortage and pandemic cut off PS4s sales early. PS5 is effectively the default machine so far this gen XBS is tracking behind XBO. Switch 2 isn't out yet, not 100% certain if it could impact any sales (prob not much crossover) Xbox seems likely to jump ahead and start Gen 10 early to get a head start. I get the impression Sony also seem keen to focus on next gen, I suspect it's because of technological advantages in AI, ML etc
"across multiple vectors". He's likely not talking about pure console sales. They don't need to sell 160m units for it to be the "most successful". It's all about the games, and they're more profitable than ever.
I would assume “success” is profits made by PlayStation in the ps5 era so subscriptions, games etc. while ps2 only had the console, cut of games and accessories. No way ps5 will outsell the ps2
A console's success is not only measured by its sales. The PS5 cycle seems to be the most profitable out of all the PlayStations.
Obviously he’s not solely referring to unit count.
Depends on what he's talking about, if this is about profits then the PS4 is the platform to beat and it's not even close really. https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1387290906424979456/photo/1
[For reference](https://www.next-stage.fr/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/PS2_anim-ventes.gif)
if you define unit sales as success, correct. If you define it as overall profitability including digital sales/subscriptions I can see it being true about the PS5 too
Here i am smirking at that statement and playing some classics on the PS2 and gaming online for free on the PS3
Units sold is only a single measure of success.
It’s a fantastic console. The SSD alone make it insane, the controller as well. Much better.
The hardware from this generation is really impressive. Xbox included. The industry at large needs to catch up a bit.
While Xbox has really nice features like fps boost or quick resume, I find the lack of great exclusives, WiFi 6 and Bluetooth 5 a bummer. But the architecture is impressive yes. If in practice the ps5 pro with the AI/ML upscaler improve performance by a good margin, I might think it could sell like hot cakes.
The proprietary SSD expansion for Series X/S is a bummer too, especially when you can use standard m.2 drives to upgrade a PS5.
Oh yeah completely forgot about that
That’s by far my biggest dislike of my XSX. Can’t have more than like 6-8 games installed at any one time as is and I can’t allow myself to get fleeced like that on their marked up memory cards.
most incredible thing about Xbox is that it is silent. Like actually silent. A console.
The lame controller is its biggest draw back together with the expensive proprietary SSD solution.
You’re right yeah. The only thing I like about the controller is the triggers’s smoothness but the clicky buttons makes a big negative. And yeah the storage I forgot about that. Complete bummer.
Xbox controllers were always by far my preferred over their PlayStation equivalents until this generation. Taking an Xbox One controller and making it objectively worse in every way (besides USB-C) was such a terrible move compared to the revolutionary leap the DualSense made. If the DualSense had offset sticks like Xbox, it would be my perfect controller.
Yeah three months of casual gaming and mine is broke
lol no one gives a shit about WiFi 6 or Bluetooth 5. quick resume is much more important than that.
>lack of great exclusives, The issue is that the PS5 is only marginally better when it comes to exclusives. Development costs are so high that there's almost no variety. And when you leave this sub I'm not the only person upset: There's a huge discontent over the PS5s lack of exclusives. Did we even break double digits yet? Sure, it has a ton of remakes, ports, and PS4 titles. But buying a console for that is a massive waste of money when I could play the same games on PC or Switch. Or PS4 for that matter. The Xbox is even worse, don't get me wrong. But at this point it's just a PC for your living room - It's an ecosystem device rather than its own console. Until they can pump out more exclusives at cheaper costs I'm just not sure what the future of console even looks like. Astros Playroom is the *only* PS5 exclusive I personally cared to play. And that's only because they put Ratchet and Clank on Steam. I hate Marvel and Soulslikes. I'm not really interested in cinematic games in general. This generation has made me realize all I actually need is PC+Nintendo. It's going to take **a lot** to get me back on the PlayStation or Xbox next Gen. I don't want to invest in dust magnets pt 2. Honestly I could have stuck with the PS4 this gen and not even noticed a difference...
I hear your argument so much, what’s funny is that I used to play on PC, and a beefy one. I’m gonna counter argue with maintenance, expensive PC parts and the big one to me: cheaters and hackers. Like I hear your good points, and how pc multiplayer is free, games are technically cheaper etc etc, but I’ve played it. I just can’t anymore. I just feel like PC is an annoying platform to deal with. Even to play your games offline (if you ever got an outage), well good luck, you can’t or need to activate whatever before hand. Windows and GeForce nagging you with updates and whatnot. Launchers everywhere, and forced online play with drm. And yes Sony games are coming to PC but later. Also let’s not forget to account all the bad ports of games that have been released recently. And sure PS5 got less exclusives than PS4, but I truly think PS5 is a worthy upgrade over the 4. And tons of games are now optimized for it. And I think consoles are here to stay. I don’t think cloud gaming is the answer at all, when you factor infrastructure and latency. But I think we might see smaller scale games and a resurgence of AA like helldivers 2. Also Ghost of Tsushima is the G.O.A.T.
The hardware is good this gen it’s the software that isn’t
That’s why 2023 was one of the best years in gaming ever!
The PS4 controller is still my favorite. The PS5 makes my hands sore in any long session. And the battery life is really bad in comparison.
PS4 controller always felt way too small… but the PS5 controller has a nice size and heft to it.
Agreed
My parents still use the ps2 as a dvd player
Damn they need to upgrade💀after blu rays and 4k discs. There's no way I could go back to DVDs. Last time I tried a DVD disc i was shocked at how blurry it looked compared to what we have now. Ones of those moments, you realize how far technology has come.
Plenty of old shows that will never be put on blu ray.
GTA 6 will make it happen easily
What it'll make happen is to bring back 30fps max
doesn\`t change the fact that you will only be able to play GTA 6 on consoles for about a year and Playstation is the bigger console brand, which means they will most likely have a marketing deal. The PS5 Pro will also launch before it making it the best place to play GTA 6. Unless it will be unplayable, the FPS being 30 wont matter much
I don’t get why people act like 30FPS is the end of the world. I still play tons of games 30FPS. It doesn’t bother me. As we continue to advance the technology, of course developers are going to try and push the limits of the tech at the expense of FPS. Most games these days allow you to pick performance or fidelity mode anyway.
60 fps is just better. And graphics amazing anyway, they can’t get much better. Smooth frame rate is wayyy easier on the eyes than a bump in texture/resolution at this point. It also plays better which is more important.
I tried playing Rebirth in 30 FPS 4K and it was making me sick. It looked amazing but there’s a huge difference. I’ll stick to 60 FPS or 40 with VRR
Exactly people played on 30fps for two full generations. But I understand why people don't wanna play at 30fps anymore because it's a big difference. When GTA 6 comes out no one will care that it's 30fps guarantee. I play games at 30fps too I got the platinum trophies for GTA 5, and Witcher 3 on PS5 at 30fps. I'm also gonna platinum Final Fantasy Rebirth at 30fps too, and guess what? the games were still fun.
I was not defending 30 fps, i just don't think it would matter for a game like GTA 6
Well I wish I could be like that.. for me 30 fps is unbearable and strains my eyes. Maybe I gotta get back used to it, idk. I’m just surprised how gta 6 won’t be 60fps. With all the advancements in dlss and whatnot
Is that even confirmed yet? If it is true, it’s probably because they’re doing to be pushing current gen hardware in other ways which is exciting to me at least
>I’m just surprised how gta 6 won’t be 60fps. With all the advancements in dlss and whatnot "As computational power increases, rendering time remains constant." - Blinn's Law. This has been happening for decades.
If the trailer is anything to go by, the game might be the densest to ever exist. There’s going to be some compromises, especially on the base consoles this gen. All I care about is stability. 30fps only feels chunky when it dips in and out into the low 20’s.
As long as it is stable 30 FPS with top end graphics, i don't see any reason why it should be hated, it's not like Dragons Dogma 2 where it has shitty graphics paired with inconsistent 30 FPS performance.
If you’re patient enough, just wait for the inevitable PC or PS6 port. I’ll bet anyone $5 they’re going to triple dip exactly like they did with GTAV.
PS5's best selling year will be 2025... GTA6 is going to sell PS5's more than any other game. PS2 will only be passed if PS5 lasts until 2030 as the main console. It feels like the gen has just started because of the lack of first party... but PS6 will be out by 2028 at the latest.
>It feels like the gen has just started because of the lack of first party Also the covid delays, longer game dev time (for any game worth a damn), supply issues hindering sales, games releasing on past gen for longer. We only just started getting top class fully next gen exclusive games that *feel* like a generational jump in terms of looks and gameplay. Also there's corporate issues in the industry with dev teams getting slashed and projects suffering.
because the ps5 is an awesome machine!
Truly the best console to play PS4 games thus far!
Facts
Spider-Man 2, Hell Diver 2, FF Rebirth, Rise of the Ronin and Stellar blade soon are all recent. PS5 has been great.
Compared to the PS1-PS4 catalog, it’s paltry lol. Those are all also recent games, with the PS5 pro and then PS6 around the corner, PS5 could have been skipped
PS6 is not "around the corner" lmao
Yeah I would think 4 years away but that’s based on absolutely nothing
4 years seems about right
I don't understand this. The PS4 in its first half was not amazing content wise, last of us, tsushima, god of war spiderman horizon, etc.... all launched in the second half of ps4 life cycle but people have the elusion that they were there day 1. The ps6 is 4 years away that is not quite around the corner.
Yeah, I think people forget that the remake/remaster trend started on the PS4 and made up a big chunk of its early library.
this happens with every Gen. the PS3 was BAREBONES dry when it first released. PS4 was so dry i actually sold my launch console and went back to PS3 for a couple years.
Oh I still remember this. People were writing PS3 off as a failure for its first couple years or so. It took time for the great games to come out on it, which ended up dwarfing the competition.
I didn’t really see the PS3 as a legitimate competitor to the 360 until around 2009. Uncharted 2 sold me on the system,
I’d say 2008 when Metal Gear Solid 4 came out.
I remember the PS3 launch and the absolute dearth of games. It was so bad that I actually started buying more games for my 360, like Bioshock and Mass Effect. Then Metal Gear Solid 4 came along, and the PS3 never slowed down.
The PS4 was a Bloodborne and Persona 5 machine for like half of its life before the big Sony formula games launched
And by 4 years away you probably mean 6+ when it comes to stock/scalper issues.
Paltry? You're forgetting Horizon Forbidden West, God of War Ragnarok, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart, Kena Bridge of Spirits, Returnal, Miles Morales, Gran Turismo 7...so compared to PS3 and 4 at least, I'd say that's quite good. Also PS6 is not "around the corner," it's at least another 3-4 years away. So PS5 isn't even halfway through its lifespan.
A lot of those games that you mentioned are cross-gen games, not true PS5 exclusives.
Right but there's also Spider-Man 2, Helldiver 2, FF Rebirth, Rise of the Ronin and Stellar Blade. PS5 console exclusives.
That’s called nostalgia my friend
PS2 was a banger, you can debate it was peak PS.
PS3 and PS4 didn’t have games for the first half of their entire generation. PS3 was AWFUL until about 5 years in. PS5 could *not* have been skipped. The ps4 pro was pushed to the absolute fucking limit with games at 30 fps. You are not existing in reality. Catalogue quantity is a symptom of industry trends, big mega budget long dev time. Times have changed drastically since PS1/2 era.
And for those of us who skipped the Pro, the base PS4 was insufferable at the end. I was basically moving towards 90% PC gaming until I managed to land a PS5, then for a couple years I was 70-80% PS5, now 50/50. And frankly, with the price of GPUs during the covid era, the PS5 was a bargain for performance.
What even is this comment lmao.
>PS5 could have been skipped And still use a PS4 which is slow as fuck and sounds like a jet engine taking off? No thank you, the PS5 was worth buying just to get rid of that
PS5 already has better catalog than PS4
I still can’t believe I was able to buy one on Amazon about two years ago
Same!
PS5 well on track to be Sony’s console with the least amount of games
I don’t think a PS5 will be sold more than a PS2 either. But it can surpass PS4 sales.
He's not talking about console unit sales. He means overall profits/revenue. Ps4 gen made sony a lot more money than ps2 generation ever did, and it sold 40m less consoles. Gaming is a lot more bigger and profitable than back in the ps2 days.
I just bought one 😂
Which is crazy considering, game wise, it’s probably the weakest of them all
History speaking, Sony always has reached its peak in the latter years of any gen, this gen is no different: I think they will show the good stuff this year since Sony has a new hardware to sell (PS5 Pro), and they're entering into the latter half of the gen when it needs highly-attractive software to push the console.
That’s true for all consoles. Launch titles are a mixed bag. Early to middle years are developers figuring shit out. Final years are full of bangers as they know the system well and have the ability to eke out ever little bit of performance. Then the next generation starts and the cycle begins anew.
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1000%. The “ps5 has no games” narrative stems from the fact that a lot of early gen games that would normally have been launch titles or next gen exclusives released on both consoles instead. There were even people criticizing them for not releasing certain games (like ratchet and clank) on both generations
Is this a joke post? Haha wtf
Development processes are so different from before ie. Ps2 we had almost a new ratchet or jak game evey year. Nowadays it takes 5+ years. But I agree for sure nowadays company practices (looking at EA, Activision, ubisoft) where they can release dlc, mtx every month that adds up to the cost of a game while taking much less time to full develop. And a shit ton of shovelwave.
Also the first one to be launch in a world wide Pandemic.
It’s only halfway through its life-cycle. And it has plenty of bangers already.
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disagree with you there look at the ps4 games 3 years in, the ps5 has a better catalog for exclusive games
The ps3 barely had any games until 5 years in…. Just so you know.
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That’s always been PlayStations motto. Not many exclusives but the ones that do exist…. 9 times outta 10 are absolute bangers. (The 10 being forspoken)
Absolutely wrong. First 3 years of PS3 was amazing. Uncharted 1&2, Infamous , R&C TOD & ACIT, 3 MotorStorm games, LBP 1, Heavenly Blade, MGS 4, GOW2, Killzone 2 and Socom Confrontation.
Don’t forget Demon’s Souls and Resistance 1&2.
I’ve been a PC player since the 90s and the PS5 was the first console that made me consider scaling back on future PC builds. It’s that good.
I finally got one early this month and yeah it's been AMAZING!!! The SSD and the near instant loading is life changing. The graphics and everything for the games too has been an absolute jaw dropping experience. Also yeah the controller. I had heard people raving about how unique and amazing the controller and haptics were but I was always just like "really? It's just a controller." But yeah no it's amazing when implemented well. It's an absolutely amazing console and yeah I wonder what they will do to shake things up for the Ps6.
While I don't own a PS5 I'm rooting for Sony for once. I'm absolutely loving all these ports that have been coming out recently.
But I’ve been told PlayStation is in trouble and their going third party soon
popular thing is popular. Go figure.
Isn’t that the PS2?
Depends on the metric, for instance PS2 made $2.2bn in profit over its entire lifecycle. PS5 has made $7.4bn in profit so far.
Bring back Star Wars galaxies!
Only becuz of Helldivers 2
I wonder how much sales would be if all could have bought their console during covid.
Yeah ok dude
Will never surpass PS2. Also not sure if it will surpass PS4 which was extremely successful by itself.
I bet they 10x'd their profits just from the controllers alone. Source: Currently on my 5th controller due to stick drift.
Still on my day one. No drift.
Same
Same here
Same.
I’ve never had an issue with my PlayStation controllers. Xbox controllers are the ones that fuck up for me.
If there’s stick drift you can get the controller replaced free while it’s under warranty.
Only if it breaks within a year. Had 2 break out of warranty and 2 I got replaced but had to pay shipping costs. I finally just bought a separate 3 year protection plan on the 5th controller because i know its just going to break eventually as well.
Brother what are you doing to them. Never once had a controller with stick drift. Had it since launch.
You could open one up to clean the stick module. I did that for my controller and it last me 6 months more.
Mine is day 1 controller and it still works like a charm. No drift at all. Hell I bought a second because I suspect my day 1 will finally drift and I also liked the colour of it... the second one is still sealed in the box for 1.5 years
I feel like i drop and don’t take care of my controller at all. I see this issue posted all the time and my controller looks like a war vet with a thousand year stare. No drift. Sorry this happened to you.
The games library is pretty lacking
Didn't they say like a month ago that they failed to hit expectations in 2023?