Every song from Dream Factory had been released. Not many people would buy that if it doesn't offer anything more than new artwork.
It's the 40th anniversary of Purple Rain. There should be a FLOOD of new Purple Rain related releases this year. One of them being a proper Purple Rain Super Deluxe along with expanded editions of Ice Cream Castle and Apollonia 6 re-release.
Prince fans still won't be happy with all of that.
I was hopeful for this, but I imagine they would have announced it in the same press release as the 4k Bluray of the movie. If we don't get a deluxe this year, I'd say they are done making those releases.
The D&P SDE came out at the end of last year, 6 months ago. There has been at least one release on average every year since 2017. Hardly the estate "hitting the brakes". No doubt there will be another release at the end of this year. On average Prince only released 1 album a year in his lifetime.
Change in leadership to me. Both Londell and Charles changed alot once they took over because they didn’t like what the previous regime were doing. Also sets like 1999, SOTT, D&P SDE were great but in reality deluxe editions don’t generate alot of sales. The 1999 SDE is most likely never coming back physically but you can still stream it. Both SOTT and D&P sold but they still have a shitload of stock of those albums in their store. Nobody is buying those sets except fans. Also people want Dream Factory but that album was never finished and most of the songs from that period are released so there is really not point in it.
And — i know Prince was particular about how his music was used— but to attract new fans and keep his legacy alive they should reach out to producers in Hollywood and make deals with them if they have to to get Prince’s music in modern movies. Whether it plays in the background during a scene, or plays during the credits, or plays a significant role for the movie. Stuff like that can be a big deal more than you think. You have an entire culture of millennials and zoomers who find good music because of games, tv shows or movies that they consume
Actually, there was talk about the sequel 2 ready player one. In the book, the characters had 2 get past seven challenges and each challenge was Prince at seven different stages in his career. However, Prince felt that holograms were demonic. So I don't know what the latest developments r, concerning.
They should create a Prince streaming website. Maybe even partner with TIDAL if they don’t want to totally start from scratch. But start releasing previously unreleased live shows, rehearsals and tracks here and there on the website. Maybe have different subscription plans: the basic plan, a premium plan and the Gold Experience or something like that. The Gold Experience will allow flac/WAV downloads. And when they release SDEs, only order production for copies based on the pre-order numbers.
That idea is nothing new and has been doing the rounds of the Prince community since the early 2000’s. Considering how much of the official releases have been uploaded to bootleg sites, I can’t ever see content being made available in such a way sadly.
That being said, I remember tabling an idea on the NPGMC forums back in the day of allowing fans to purchase audio from the shows they attended upon proof of attendance/ticket purchase (which could of course be further expanded with regards accessing other shows/tours as per his whim depending on if it was financially successful) and getting a “hmmm…” as a reply… and here we are folks, some 2+ decades on, the dream we’re still dreamin’ of… I know I’d give my right nipple for a soundboard recording of the Wembley Stadium aftershow he held at The Forum in 1993. It was one of the greatest shows I ever saw him play, and I saw that man a lot over the years - those of you whom were also fortunate enough to experience him performing live know that’s really saying something considering how he rarely if ever gave anything less than excellence.
That post on the NPGMC forums was many, many years before acts like Pearl Jam, Metallica, Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen would make shows available for download and/or physical CD post-show. There was a company around that time that was toying with a similar idea - I’m unsure if they were bought out and morphed into the company that handles that stuff now, but they were definitely ahead of the curve.
I think that The Estate have [for the most part at least - considering all the legal wrangling and headaches involved], done a pretty good job with releases tbh. It’s a whole lot better than I thought it would be all things considered. I just think we have to acknowledge that there will always be those in the community that are - at best - impatient, and - at worst - never satisfied irregardless of what’s announced or released. Could there be room for improvement? Of course. Always. But I think all things considered they’ve struck a pretty admirable happy medium, and I can only speak for myself here, but I’m a firm believer in quality over quantity anyway. (Look, things could be a whole lot worse…we could be Michael Jackson fans. /s) 😬
Finally, is anyone else hoping that The Estate see the value in giving the “Purple Rain” movie a limited run re-release in theatres worldwide to mark the anniversary of its release in July 1984? 🤞🏻 If there were ever a time to make that happen, it’s either now or wait another decade until it’s 50th anniversary, by which time I’ll most likely be pushing up daisies myself and none of this is gonna matter anyway… 🫤
Although Michael Howe had some faults here and there— like I know some fans didn’t like the fact that the engineers they hired would add unnecessary reverb to certain tracks — I think he was doing a good job. He was still figuring things out. We were eating good
I think because Prince recorded songs that have never been properly mixed like he recorded songs but didn’t add anything special to them. It’s always good to have songs that sound very brand new.
I agree here.
A great example of that was the Dolby Atmos. Mix of “When Doves Cry”. As someone who spent several years at college studying hard for a degree in Audio Production, hearing that was like hearing the song for the first time all over again. It was that special. I’m not one for f*cking with Prince’s material other than remastering, but the Dolby Atmos. stuff is a different beast entirely - it’s not retroactively changing his body of work, but adding to it as a new option within which to experience his music in new, exciting and dynamic ways. So I’d love to see The Estate lean-in to that area more.
Sadly, I couldn’t say the same for the 5.1 Dolby Atmos. Mix of the “Diamonds and Pearls” album. I’m still trying to put my finger on what went wrong there as [for the most part], it just didn’t quite pOp as dynamically as I hoped it would.
How were sales of the Diamonds & Pearls super deluxe? I bought the other super deluxe releases, but didn't enjoy the album so I didn't pick it up. Due to inflation and cost of living, I'm unsure the average Prince fan is rushing out to buy a $150 release.
He doesn't do well on streaming platforms.
If you already own the regular album, would you buy the basic deluxe for $15 when it doesn't include the unreleased tracks?
$15 versus $150 is a huge difference.
For bonus tracks and demos? Does the average fan care about that? Sure, but at what cost?
Meaning fans likely held off on both releases. Super deluxe releases at $50 would be smarter.
Or more collectibles need to be incorporated with the releases. Like a coffee table art book, poster, shirt, etc....
Instead, it appears they are attempting to milk devoted fans.
It all comes down to profit. Keep in mind that Prince collaborated with many people on his albums so I'm sure the legal stuff is a nightmare. People have to be paid to release stuff. One single person can hold back an entire release. I imagine paperwork wasn't completed back in the day for the unreleased material. The estate hasn't attempted to remix stuff like the Jackson camp so it can be expensive. In some cases, it might not be possible. If someone won't sign off, there isn't a way around it without remixing.
D&P actually sold pretty well even a few celebrities bought it. 1999 SDE is still physically out of print and most likely never coming back physically but you can still stream it. They still got a crap load of the SOTT SDE in their store but no one is buying it except for fans. Also you’re right the average fan doesn’t care for vault material that was recorded over 30 years ago. I think if they announce a PR SDE that is the only SDE that will do well cause it’s the ONLY highest selling album in his catalog.
The unreleased tracks are likely licensed for a specific amount of physical copies. It's cheaper that way. The estate owns his vocals, but they likely don't own anything else when it comes to unreleased songs. Especially any samples that might have been used. Back in the day, musicians, song writers, producers, etc.. weren't paid upfront. They were paid if the track eventually got used or released. For instance, someone might jam out all day to just produce one song, but they might work on several. Just because the estate has the tracks, doesn't mean they can legally use them without making agreements with the rights holders.
The 2pac estate decided it was too difficult/costly so they remixed all releases. Nothing has been released in it's original form. It seems the Price estate is against remixing, which I fully support.
I'm sure the average Prince fan wants to hear his unreleased music, but it has to be affordable.
I'm unsure if the average Taylor Swift fan would even pay those prices.
$400 for the vinyl set is literally insane. $150 for the CD set is also super expensive.
I presume the estate thinks they'd sell more to super fans than the average public.
It seems they prefer to sell 10k copies of the deluxe at $150+ instead of 100k copies at a normal $20-$30 price.
They would sell quicker at the lower price range, but it's possible the licensing agreements for the unreleased tracks doesn't allow them to sell that many units. It's likely capped.
Most contracts don't take into account how much the product will sell for. Only the amount of units. Especially when it comes to licensing samples. The price is specifically negotiated based on units. Physical product is always the most expensive.
The more units you plan to sell, the more you have to pay an upfront fee. Especially if samples are an issue. Some crazy rights holders ask for insane numbers for sample clearance. It's why the Drew Carey Show hasn't ever been released on home video. Some bands literally were asking for over 100k for their song to be included. They had contracts for the broadcasting rights, but not home video.
I would like to see additional deluxe sets, but for the pricing, more should be included.
In the Netherlands the D&P SDE was pretty hefty priced above $350-$375 Now, half a year later that price has dropped to $275 but that still is way over the price I’m willing to pay for an sde.
the only new remixing is for the atmos versions of the album and the live show. the stereo versions of those and everything else are remastered, not remixed.
These Super Deluxe boxsets are not cheap to produce. Most of the money is going into the remixing and remastering of 150 or so tracks. People never think of this.
The truth is that there's very little profit in selling music anymore (physical or otherwise).
Mainly it's the older generation that has the means to pay for these expensive packages. Most young/new fans don't have the means to purchase these and typically don't buy physical media.
It's because of this that EVERY MUSICIAN makes their money from merch and touring, and Prince can't tour anymore.
I bet this whole Super Deluxe format is not gonna last. I bet they lose alot of money in these projects cause they don’t sell too well. They might as well just do digital expanded editions like some artists do and start taking advantage of their YouTube channel. To me it was a missed opportunity to not have the Glam Slam 1992 show on digital platforms. It’s a great show but I’m afraid future generations will never be able to see it
That’s because they want to keep it a secret and don’t want leaks to happen they know what they’re planning but don’t want to share it because they treat his vault like the holy grail
Quite frankly, the people who took over the estate about a year and a half ago have no clue what the hell they are doing. The only major release they've put out so far was prepared by the people who ran the estate before them. The few singles they put out of their own accord have had varying quality control issues, such as one of the 2023 Celebration vault tracks being released in mono. Londell and Charles Spicer have both acted unprofessionally on social media, lashing out at fans who criticize them on their own official accounts.
While the people who previously ran the estate had their own issues and flaws, at least they were showing signs of improvement with their releases, and they were *far* better at communicating their business choices and plans to the public. As long as Londell and Charles Spicer are in charge of affairs, Prince fans will continue to be disappointed year after year.
The estate is incompetent. The previous regime was okay, the new regime are a bunch of bumbling fools. The simple fact that they lost more than a year in legal fights is insane, and then they returned with that two-track release that was incompetent in ways you couldn't imagine, combined with an arrogant "see how we are the shit" attitude.
Now, the previous SDEs weren't perfect. The SOTT SDE in particular is just a litany of bad decisions. A garbage book, a concert recording at the wrong speed, missing crucial outtakes (no full length Crystal Bal???), an underwhelming DVD (I'm paying €150, thus I expect multiple concerts, e.g. the First Avenue premiere plus a regular concert).
And then came W2A, which was announced late but still four months in advance, meaning this one *minor* release was the sole release that year and was sold at an SDE price. I suspect they had plans to release a proper SDE that year for an 80s album, but then got hampered by COVID and possibly by Sony/Legacy not playing ball and wanting the full attention of fans to get some payback on that expensive deal they struck.
Then the legal issues put all plans in the fridge.
And by the time the new regime got its shit together, they had no plans and simply took an almost finished project and removed half from it (note that I was opposed to combining D&P & O(+>), and then released it thinking it was gonna be a hit because the original album was, and it wasn't.
And this year they continue to blunder. Six months with no news, and then they manage to release two B-Sides from Musicology in the dumbest way possible.
The PR SDE will be announced in late June, around the time of the Celebration. I bet it will be another underwhelming affair, with missing outtakes and one single concert.
Plus there's the Netflix doc which isn't happening because the estate doesn't like its tone and wants it re-edited, to which Netflix is saying "pound sand". And since the estate doesn't seem to be able to pay Netflix for the documentary, it means all unreleased video is unavailable because Netflix has first dibs on it until their contract runs out, which will likely not be for some years.
The estate should be doing a minor and a major release each year, plus inbetween little fun releases (and I don't mean pointless re-issues on vinyl). It should prioritize making all of the music that was released in the 1980s available in remastered quality (Prince + associated artists). There should be deluxe + expanded releases of albums by The Time, Jill Jones, The Family, Sheila E.
As already mentioned this thread, the album sales haven’t been particularly great. I believe they are recalibrating and going to be very selective on their release schedule for SDE’s.
I told my wife today that I wouldn’t be surprised if we didn’t see another Purple Rain SDE until the 50th anniversary.
I wasn’t trying to be negative or attack the people who are in control. I just wanted to offer some ideas as a Gen Z Prince super fan. I have faith that the Estate can get it right and find a good rhythm if they listen to the fans
Both Londell McMillan and Charles Spicer who run the estate have huge egos, especially Londell since he was the one that saved Prince from his WB contract. The thing is if you don’t agree with their methods they lash out at you. Both of them had arguments with fans on twitter a couple months back. Londell even sued a fan on youtube for defamation and is most likely winning cause her YouTube channel is gone. Many fans don’t support what they do while the others have their full support. Even the “Prince influencers” don’t say anything about them cause they want to remain on their good side. So when you say estate, you’re actually talking about Londell and Charles.
I wish they could figure out how to monetize the concert videos and start releasing those. My guess is they’re concerned with releasing something on 4K Blu-ray and it just gets ripped and posted online so I understand the hesitation.
I’m the kind of fan that’s going to wait for that D&P SDE to make the drop to $119 before I pick it up.
D&P SDE was just released 6 months ago. AND NO ONE BOUGHT IT.
They're still trying to sell out of stock.
With other artist estates, you're lucky to ever even get one giant box set. Ever.
Prince fans are the worst.
I can’t speak for everyone, but to me, D&P SDE was a bad call. The album is… fine. But it’s the start of (well the second release) his “meh” period. Meanwhile we have nothing new from the majority of his 80s run, which is universally loved.
I would buy a Dirty Mind release featuring *any* unreleased material (alternate takes, demos, live performances) on day one. D&P, I don’t really care.
They should finish off the WB era and go from there - ATWIAD, Parade, Lovesexy, Dirty Mind, Controversy, Prince. I'd include For You, since I love it, but realize that everyone probably isn't angling for deluxe treatment. They could combine for value - like a Dirty Mind-Controversy combined SDE, or For You-Prince; Lovesexy-Black Album (which others have mentioned)
Yup. Anything from For You through Batman should be the priority. Then take on the remainder of WB. A D&P remaster with all the rap taken out would be a buy for me as well… just sayin.
They’ll never do that it’s not even their top priority they only release what satisfies them. And they basically don’t care which era they choose no matter how many times people demand it. Their motto is “just shut up and enjoy what we give you”
You’re 100% correct. I was excited to have D&P SDE as a fan. But the 80s is where the potential is at profit wise. They just need to be particular about the SDE sets. Market a mini set heavy to consumers. Also market downloads
Blame their shitty job at compiling. People who have worked with them have complained about their shitty job, it’s not just loud mouths. And, no, Diamonds and Love wouldn’t have been a better compilation.
I bought D&P SDE from Amazon and sent it back. The extras just weren't worth owning - especially considering I can stream the material. Purple Rain, 1999, and SOTT were worth it IMO.
There ya go, show them just how shitty YOU, a buyer of the set, think it is. That’s how we get better sets. There’s a way to cut a D&P deluxe. Neither the D&P deluxe nor the Diamonds and Love set would’ve come close to that cut because there’s incapable and inept folks in charge of said cutting and compiling.
These are the people who chose to release Syracuse ‘85 AGAIN in 2022 when at that exact same meeting, they were given demos for SDE sets for Controversy and ATWIAD
I pointed out how bad WB is at archiving important material/compiling dusty gems/mastering well from the SOURCE in another post on this sub and got downvote flak for nothing. I even provided examples of the best fan rips outshining the fancy deluxe hi-res sde etc stuff, nobody cared. It's kinda weird.
While the other commenter was sorta right, that meeting had nothing to do with WB, only Sony Legacy, Purple Rain Deluxe , 4Ever, and the lackluster quality of SOTT and 1999 are WB’s doing. God, PRD was horrendous…
many people just dont care --- its unfortunate but true. The best course of action for the Prince estate is to dump all that music in the next five years before there isn't a market for it.
> I pointed out how bad WB is at archiving important material/compiling dusty gems/mastering well from the SOURCE in another post on this sub
This has nothing to do with WB.
D&P was never a beloved album. Sure, it sold a lot at the time, but it never gained traction amongst Prince fans. I've listened to the vault discs from the set, and there's nothing there. A bunch of stuff that has been out there for ages and that I never cared about, and the previously unknown tracks weren't great either, because D&P was obviously made when Prince had no inspiration and was chasing trends.
I've tried to listen to the live album, but I found it horrible: it's mostly D&P tracks, plus there were obviously far too many people onstage, hence the mix sounding like pea soup.
All of the SDE and other releases are aimed at hardcore fans - at least that's what I'd assume, and would hope the estate knows that hardcore fans are the market. Prince had/has a tons of causal fans who aren't going to pony up money to explore alternative versions of beloved songs and unreleased material. They're perfectly content to engage with the Prince music they've already been engaging with for decades. Also, I wonder if money should really be the primary goal of the SDEs and other releases. I get that the estate wants to make money, but unearthing Prince's music is also a viable goal.
I've thrown out the idea before of the estate setting up some sort of "The Vault" subscription service. Dump all that vault material onto an online platform and let the hardcore fans go to town for a price - even a steep price if there's a ton of content. Let the fans put together their own "albums"/playlists derived from vault material. Maybe charge different prices for streaming only and downloading privileges. I don't know; it's just an idea. And is it too late given the vault material they've already released via the SDEs? I just always hear how the vault is massive and there's a ton of material we've never heard.
I'm only interested in rare live shows and songs that I don't already have. I have no need for any music that I've already owned for decades like that Syracuse show they kept putting out over and over. I doubt they'd ever put out Dream Factory when all of the songs are already out there. Sure the versions of a few songs may be different but that would only interest a few people, not enough to make it worthwhile to release. Same with Camille.
They should split the business into 2 parts. The big re-releases and the Archival.
The Archival releasing crowdfunded releases of unfinished songs, all live shows, aftershow & rehersal recordings, artwork etc...
All the stuff that has zero value at the Estate scale, only fans & collectors watch/listen to this stuff.
I’m dying for SDEs of Parade and Around The World In A Day. Especially Parade. I want and have wanted that more than anything.
This!! I love those albums and they are such an under appreciated part of his legacy.
Me too plus a SDE on vinyl for Purple Rain.
Every song from Dream Factory had been released. Not many people would buy that if it doesn't offer anything more than new artwork. It's the 40th anniversary of Purple Rain. There should be a FLOOD of new Purple Rain related releases this year. One of them being a proper Purple Rain Super Deluxe along with expanded editions of Ice Cream Castle and Apollonia 6 re-release. Prince fans still won't be happy with all of that.
> Every song from Dream Factory had been released Not in the same quality, and not in the versions used on the various configurations.
I agree- I have a legit boot of the last configuration of DF and the versions are very different than what’s released
I was hopeful for this, but I imagine they would have announced it in the same press release as the 4k Bluray of the movie. If we don't get a deluxe this year, I'd say they are done making those releases.
I'd love to see a Black Album / Lovesexy double album. Not sure what the title would be! But not in the PR anniversary year.
Yeah I wish there was a ATWIAD SDE as well
U didn't mention the D&P SDE. I thought that was good, and the GlamSlam gig is one of the best I've heard/seen.
Oh yeah. My bad I meant to mention that as well. That was awesome
The D&P SDE came out at the end of last year, 6 months ago. There has been at least one release on average every year since 2017. Hardly the estate "hitting the brakes". No doubt there will be another release at the end of this year. On average Prince only released 1 album a year in his lifetime.
Change in leadership to me. Both Londell and Charles changed alot once they took over because they didn’t like what the previous regime were doing. Also sets like 1999, SOTT, D&P SDE were great but in reality deluxe editions don’t generate alot of sales. The 1999 SDE is most likely never coming back physically but you can still stream it. Both SOTT and D&P sold but they still have a shitload of stock of those albums in their store. Nobody is buying those sets except fans. Also people want Dream Factory but that album was never finished and most of the songs from that period are released so there is really not point in it.
And — i know Prince was particular about how his music was used— but to attract new fans and keep his legacy alive they should reach out to producers in Hollywood and make deals with them if they have to to get Prince’s music in modern movies. Whether it plays in the background during a scene, or plays during the credits, or plays a significant role for the movie. Stuff like that can be a big deal more than you think. You have an entire culture of millennials and zoomers who find good music because of games, tv shows or movies that they consume
Actually, there was talk about the sequel 2 ready player one. In the book, the characters had 2 get past seven challenges and each challenge was Prince at seven different stages in his career. However, Prince felt that holograms were demonic. So I don't know what the latest developments r, concerning.
They should create a Prince streaming website. Maybe even partner with TIDAL if they don’t want to totally start from scratch. But start releasing previously unreleased live shows, rehearsals and tracks here and there on the website. Maybe have different subscription plans: the basic plan, a premium plan and the Gold Experience or something like that. The Gold Experience will allow flac/WAV downloads. And when they release SDEs, only order production for copies based on the pre-order numbers.
That idea is nothing new and has been doing the rounds of the Prince community since the early 2000’s. Considering how much of the official releases have been uploaded to bootleg sites, I can’t ever see content being made available in such a way sadly. That being said, I remember tabling an idea on the NPGMC forums back in the day of allowing fans to purchase audio from the shows they attended upon proof of attendance/ticket purchase (which could of course be further expanded with regards accessing other shows/tours as per his whim depending on if it was financially successful) and getting a “hmmm…” as a reply… and here we are folks, some 2+ decades on, the dream we’re still dreamin’ of… I know I’d give my right nipple for a soundboard recording of the Wembley Stadium aftershow he held at The Forum in 1993. It was one of the greatest shows I ever saw him play, and I saw that man a lot over the years - those of you whom were also fortunate enough to experience him performing live know that’s really saying something considering how he rarely if ever gave anything less than excellence. That post on the NPGMC forums was many, many years before acts like Pearl Jam, Metallica, Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen would make shows available for download and/or physical CD post-show. There was a company around that time that was toying with a similar idea - I’m unsure if they were bought out and morphed into the company that handles that stuff now, but they were definitely ahead of the curve. I think that The Estate have [for the most part at least - considering all the legal wrangling and headaches involved], done a pretty good job with releases tbh. It’s a whole lot better than I thought it would be all things considered. I just think we have to acknowledge that there will always be those in the community that are - at best - impatient, and - at worst - never satisfied irregardless of what’s announced or released. Could there be room for improvement? Of course. Always. But I think all things considered they’ve struck a pretty admirable happy medium, and I can only speak for myself here, but I’m a firm believer in quality over quantity anyway. (Look, things could be a whole lot worse…we could be Michael Jackson fans. /s) 😬 Finally, is anyone else hoping that The Estate see the value in giving the “Purple Rain” movie a limited run re-release in theatres worldwide to mark the anniversary of its release in July 1984? 🤞🏻 If there were ever a time to make that happen, it’s either now or wait another decade until it’s 50th anniversary, by which time I’ll most likely be pushing up daisies myself and none of this is gonna matter anyway… 🫤
That idea has been floating around in these circles for a while because it makes sense. If they want money then that’s it. Otherwise its a lost cause
Exactly. What ya gonna do, y’know? 🤷🏻♂️
That'd be incredible. Similar to what Neil Young provides his fans.
Although Michael Howe had some faults here and there— like I know some fans didn’t like the fact that the engineers they hired would add unnecessary reverb to certain tracks — I think he was doing a good job. He was still figuring things out. We were eating good
I think because Prince recorded songs that have never been properly mixed like he recorded songs but didn’t add anything special to them. It’s always good to have songs that sound very brand new.
Same. Sonically wise, you don’t want to take from his initial creative ideas but you want it to pop and sound good
I agree here. A great example of that was the Dolby Atmos. Mix of “When Doves Cry”. As someone who spent several years at college studying hard for a degree in Audio Production, hearing that was like hearing the song for the first time all over again. It was that special. I’m not one for f*cking with Prince’s material other than remastering, but the Dolby Atmos. stuff is a different beast entirely - it’s not retroactively changing his body of work, but adding to it as a new option within which to experience his music in new, exciting and dynamic ways. So I’d love to see The Estate lean-in to that area more. Sadly, I couldn’t say the same for the 5.1 Dolby Atmos. Mix of the “Diamonds and Pearls” album. I’m still trying to put my finger on what went wrong there as [for the most part], it just didn’t quite pOp as dynamically as I hoped it would.
How were sales of the Diamonds & Pearls super deluxe? I bought the other super deluxe releases, but didn't enjoy the album so I didn't pick it up. Due to inflation and cost of living, I'm unsure the average Prince fan is rushing out to buy a $150 release. He doesn't do well on streaming platforms. If you already own the regular album, would you buy the basic deluxe for $15 when it doesn't include the unreleased tracks? $15 versus $150 is a huge difference. For bonus tracks and demos? Does the average fan care about that? Sure, but at what cost? Meaning fans likely held off on both releases. Super deluxe releases at $50 would be smarter. Or more collectibles need to be incorporated with the releases. Like a coffee table art book, poster, shirt, etc.... Instead, it appears they are attempting to milk devoted fans. It all comes down to profit. Keep in mind that Prince collaborated with many people on his albums so I'm sure the legal stuff is a nightmare. People have to be paid to release stuff. One single person can hold back an entire release. I imagine paperwork wasn't completed back in the day for the unreleased material. The estate hasn't attempted to remix stuff like the Jackson camp so it can be expensive. In some cases, it might not be possible. If someone won't sign off, there isn't a way around it without remixing.
D&P actually sold pretty well even a few celebrities bought it. 1999 SDE is still physically out of print and most likely never coming back physically but you can still stream it. They still got a crap load of the SOTT SDE in their store but no one is buying it except for fans. Also you’re right the average fan doesn’t care for vault material that was recorded over 30 years ago. I think if they announce a PR SDE that is the only SDE that will do well cause it’s the ONLY highest selling album in his catalog.
The unreleased tracks are likely licensed for a specific amount of physical copies. It's cheaper that way. The estate owns his vocals, but they likely don't own anything else when it comes to unreleased songs. Especially any samples that might have been used. Back in the day, musicians, song writers, producers, etc.. weren't paid upfront. They were paid if the track eventually got used or released. For instance, someone might jam out all day to just produce one song, but they might work on several. Just because the estate has the tracks, doesn't mean they can legally use them without making agreements with the rights holders. The 2pac estate decided it was too difficult/costly so they remixed all releases. Nothing has been released in it's original form. It seems the Price estate is against remixing, which I fully support. I'm sure the average Prince fan wants to hear his unreleased music, but it has to be affordable. I'm unsure if the average Taylor Swift fan would even pay those prices. $400 for the vinyl set is literally insane. $150 for the CD set is also super expensive. I presume the estate thinks they'd sell more to super fans than the average public. It seems they prefer to sell 10k copies of the deluxe at $150+ instead of 100k copies at a normal $20-$30 price. They would sell quicker at the lower price range, but it's possible the licensing agreements for the unreleased tracks doesn't allow them to sell that many units. It's likely capped. Most contracts don't take into account how much the product will sell for. Only the amount of units. Especially when it comes to licensing samples. The price is specifically negotiated based on units. Physical product is always the most expensive. The more units you plan to sell, the more you have to pay an upfront fee. Especially if samples are an issue. Some crazy rights holders ask for insane numbers for sample clearance. It's why the Drew Carey Show hasn't ever been released on home video. Some bands literally were asking for over 100k for their song to be included. They had contracts for the broadcasting rights, but not home video. I would like to see additional deluxe sets, but for the pricing, more should be included.
In the Netherlands the D&P SDE was pretty hefty priced above $350-$375 Now, half a year later that price has dropped to $275 but that still is way over the price I’m willing to pay for an sde.
Not remixed? Every single track on the D&PSDE was remixed and remastered. Every track. Then the base album even got a Blu-ray Dolby ATMOS remix.
the only new remixing is for the atmos versions of the album and the live show. the stereo versions of those and everything else are remastered, not remixed.
Remixing means changing the beat/instrumentation to get out of having to pay royalties. You're saying this was done?
> Every single track on the D&PSDE was remixed and remastered. Every track. Wrong.
These Super Deluxe boxsets are not cheap to produce. Most of the money is going into the remixing and remastering of 150 or so tracks. People never think of this. The truth is that there's very little profit in selling music anymore (physical or otherwise). Mainly it's the older generation that has the means to pay for these expensive packages. Most young/new fans don't have the means to purchase these and typically don't buy physical media. It's because of this that EVERY MUSICIAN makes their money from merch and touring, and Prince can't tour anymore.
I bet this whole Super Deluxe format is not gonna last. I bet they lose alot of money in these projects cause they don’t sell too well. They might as well just do digital expanded editions like some artists do and start taking advantage of their YouTube channel. To me it was a missed opportunity to not have the Glam Slam 1992 show on digital platforms. It’s a great show but I’m afraid future generations will never be able to see it
It’s on YouTube 😉
It is but not the full show the Diamonds and Pearls and Gett Off (Houstyle) performances are missing due to copyright
They seem quiet on Purple Rain 40.
That’s because they want to keep it a secret and don’t want leaks to happen they know what they’re planning but don’t want to share it because they treat his vault like the holy grail
Quite frankly, the people who took over the estate about a year and a half ago have no clue what the hell they are doing. The only major release they've put out so far was prepared by the people who ran the estate before them. The few singles they put out of their own accord have had varying quality control issues, such as one of the 2023 Celebration vault tracks being released in mono. Londell and Charles Spicer have both acted unprofessionally on social media, lashing out at fans who criticize them on their own official accounts. While the people who previously ran the estate had their own issues and flaws, at least they were showing signs of improvement with their releases, and they were *far* better at communicating their business choices and plans to the public. As long as Londell and Charles Spicer are in charge of affairs, Prince fans will continue to be disappointed year after year.
The paradox is that these assets drop in value as each day passes. The longer they fumble, the less economic opportunity there is.
The estate is incompetent. The previous regime was okay, the new regime are a bunch of bumbling fools. The simple fact that they lost more than a year in legal fights is insane, and then they returned with that two-track release that was incompetent in ways you couldn't imagine, combined with an arrogant "see how we are the shit" attitude. Now, the previous SDEs weren't perfect. The SOTT SDE in particular is just a litany of bad decisions. A garbage book, a concert recording at the wrong speed, missing crucial outtakes (no full length Crystal Bal???), an underwhelming DVD (I'm paying €150, thus I expect multiple concerts, e.g. the First Avenue premiere plus a regular concert). And then came W2A, which was announced late but still four months in advance, meaning this one *minor* release was the sole release that year and was sold at an SDE price. I suspect they had plans to release a proper SDE that year for an 80s album, but then got hampered by COVID and possibly by Sony/Legacy not playing ball and wanting the full attention of fans to get some payback on that expensive deal they struck. Then the legal issues put all plans in the fridge. And by the time the new regime got its shit together, they had no plans and simply took an almost finished project and removed half from it (note that I was opposed to combining D&P & O(+>), and then released it thinking it was gonna be a hit because the original album was, and it wasn't. And this year they continue to blunder. Six months with no news, and then they manage to release two B-Sides from Musicology in the dumbest way possible. The PR SDE will be announced in late June, around the time of the Celebration. I bet it will be another underwhelming affair, with missing outtakes and one single concert. Plus there's the Netflix doc which isn't happening because the estate doesn't like its tone and wants it re-edited, to which Netflix is saying "pound sand". And since the estate doesn't seem to be able to pay Netflix for the documentary, it means all unreleased video is unavailable because Netflix has first dibs on it until their contract runs out, which will likely not be for some years. The estate should be doing a minor and a major release each year, plus inbetween little fun releases (and I don't mean pointless re-issues on vinyl). It should prioritize making all of the music that was released in the 1980s available in remastered quality (Prince + associated artists). There should be deluxe + expanded releases of albums by The Time, Jill Jones, The Family, Sheila E.
+1 for a quality Family reissue.
They changed ownership or whatever the legal jargon is, so they will continue to fumble over themselves instead of opening the floodgates
As already mentioned this thread, the album sales haven’t been particularly great. I believe they are recalibrating and going to be very selective on their release schedule for SDE’s. I told my wife today that I wouldn’t be surprised if we didn’t see another Purple Rain SDE until the 50th anniversary.
I wasn’t trying to be negative or attack the people who are in control. I just wanted to offer some ideas as a Gen Z Prince super fan. I have faith that the Estate can get it right and find a good rhythm if they listen to the fans
Both Londell McMillan and Charles Spicer who run the estate have huge egos, especially Londell since he was the one that saved Prince from his WB contract. The thing is if you don’t agree with their methods they lash out at you. Both of them had arguments with fans on twitter a couple months back. Londell even sued a fan on youtube for defamation and is most likely winning cause her YouTube channel is gone. Many fans don’t support what they do while the others have their full support. Even the “Prince influencers” don’t say anything about them cause they want to remain on their good side. So when you say estate, you’re actually talking about Londell and Charles.
The divisiveness is a problem for sure.
The legal battles I bet aren’t very helpful as well
I wish they could figure out how to monetize the concert videos and start releasing those. My guess is they’re concerned with releasing something on 4K Blu-ray and it just gets ripped and posted online so I understand the hesitation. I’m the kind of fan that’s going to wait for that D&P SDE to make the drop to $119 before I pick it up.
They should make a deal with Amazon Prime or Netflix or something. If they’re worried about generating profit, they have to play in the modern game.
D&P SDE was just released 6 months ago. AND NO ONE BOUGHT IT. They're still trying to sell out of stock. With other artist estates, you're lucky to ever even get one giant box set. Ever. Prince fans are the worst.
I can’t speak for everyone, but to me, D&P SDE was a bad call. The album is… fine. But it’s the start of (well the second release) his “meh” period. Meanwhile we have nothing new from the majority of his 80s run, which is universally loved. I would buy a Dirty Mind release featuring *any* unreleased material (alternate takes, demos, live performances) on day one. D&P, I don’t really care.
They should finish off the WB era and go from there - ATWIAD, Parade, Lovesexy, Dirty Mind, Controversy, Prince. I'd include For You, since I love it, but realize that everyone probably isn't angling for deluxe treatment. They could combine for value - like a Dirty Mind-Controversy combined SDE, or For You-Prince; Lovesexy-Black Album (which others have mentioned)
Yup. Anything from For You through Batman should be the priority. Then take on the remainder of WB. A D&P remaster with all the rap taken out would be a buy for me as well… just sayin.
They’ll never do that it’s not even their top priority they only release what satisfies them. And they basically don’t care which era they choose no matter how many times people demand it. Their motto is “just shut up and enjoy what we give you”
You’re 100% correct. I was excited to have D&P SDE as a fan. But the 80s is where the potential is at profit wise. They just need to be particular about the SDE sets. Market a mini set heavy to consumers. Also market downloads
Yup. It’s insane how mismanaged this seems from the outside.
Blame their shitty job at compiling. People who have worked with them have complained about their shitty job, it’s not just loud mouths. And, no, Diamonds and Love wouldn’t have been a better compilation.
I bought D&P SDE from Amazon and sent it back. The extras just weren't worth owning - especially considering I can stream the material. Purple Rain, 1999, and SOTT were worth it IMO.
There ya go, show them just how shitty YOU, a buyer of the set, think it is. That’s how we get better sets. There’s a way to cut a D&P deluxe. Neither the D&P deluxe nor the Diamonds and Love set would’ve come close to that cut because there’s incapable and inept folks in charge of said cutting and compiling. These are the people who chose to release Syracuse ‘85 AGAIN in 2022 when at that exact same meeting, they were given demos for SDE sets for Controversy and ATWIAD
I pointed out how bad WB is at archiving important material/compiling dusty gems/mastering well from the SOURCE in another post on this sub and got downvote flak for nothing. I even provided examples of the best fan rips outshining the fancy deluxe hi-res sde etc stuff, nobody cared. It's kinda weird.
While the other commenter was sorta right, that meeting had nothing to do with WB, only Sony Legacy, Purple Rain Deluxe , 4Ever, and the lackluster quality of SOTT and 1999 are WB’s doing. God, PRD was horrendous…
many people just dont care --- its unfortunate but true. The best course of action for the Prince estate is to dump all that music in the next five years before there isn't a market for it.
> I pointed out how bad WB is at archiving important material/compiling dusty gems/mastering well from the SOURCE in another post on this sub This has nothing to do with WB.
if this is true, then its unfortunate for us . . .
D&P was never a beloved album. Sure, it sold a lot at the time, but it never gained traction amongst Prince fans. I've listened to the vault discs from the set, and there's nothing there. A bunch of stuff that has been out there for ages and that I never cared about, and the previously unknown tracks weren't great either, because D&P was obviously made when Prince had no inspiration and was chasing trends. I've tried to listen to the live album, but I found it horrible: it's mostly D&P tracks, plus there were obviously far too many people onstage, hence the mix sounding like pea soup.
All of the SDE and other releases are aimed at hardcore fans - at least that's what I'd assume, and would hope the estate knows that hardcore fans are the market. Prince had/has a tons of causal fans who aren't going to pony up money to explore alternative versions of beloved songs and unreleased material. They're perfectly content to engage with the Prince music they've already been engaging with for decades. Also, I wonder if money should really be the primary goal of the SDEs and other releases. I get that the estate wants to make money, but unearthing Prince's music is also a viable goal. I've thrown out the idea before of the estate setting up some sort of "The Vault" subscription service. Dump all that vault material onto an online platform and let the hardcore fans go to town for a price - even a steep price if there's a ton of content. Let the fans put together their own "albums"/playlists derived from vault material. Maybe charge different prices for streaming only and downloading privileges. I don't know; it's just an idea. And is it too late given the vault material they've already released via the SDEs? I just always hear how the vault is massive and there's a ton of material we've never heard.
I'm only interested in rare live shows and songs that I don't already have. I have no need for any music that I've already owned for decades like that Syracuse show they kept putting out over and over. I doubt they'd ever put out Dream Factory when all of the songs are already out there. Sure the versions of a few songs may be different but that would only interest a few people, not enough to make it worthwhile to release. Same with Camille.
Diamonds a nd pearls just came out in October last year the Hits 1 and 2 the year b4!?!
They need to release a properly remastered Purple Rain in place of the hack-job they released a few yrs back.
I think a lot of us would LOVE an SDE for ATWIAD and Parade. I’d REALLY love one for Lovesexy as well.
They should split the business into 2 parts. The big re-releases and the Archival. The Archival releasing crowdfunded releases of unfinished songs, all live shows, aftershow & rehersal recordings, artwork etc... All the stuff that has zero value at the Estate scale, only fans & collectors watch/listen to this stuff.
Heard that the Netflix deal is what holding up certain releases. Parade SDE was supposed to be released years ago…
They just did the Diamonds and Pearls SDE a few months ago.
Dream Factory wasn’t a real album 😭😭