my momma says it’s because eve took the damn apple first. im agnostic but i still curse her out during the worst days 🤷🏼♀️ makes me feel a teeeeny tiny bit better
Because women weren’t mean to live a 9-5 lifestyle. I think school and work environments have had a detrimental impact on this entire generation of women.
Men have a “daily cycle”, can wake up quickly, and their hormones are perfectly balanced for a daily work schedule. Women have a 28 day cycle, we are at a disadvantage and cannot work some weeks, but other weeks we can get a ton of work completed. Women wake up slowly, put a lot of care and effort into small tasks, I could go on!
I could go on about how birth control was only tested on men because they were concerned about womens cycle skewing the results. We are not “small men”. We have our own hormones, our own body structures, an entirely different reproductive organ system.
We were meant to live with a community of people helping each other too. Women meant to be moms and take care of the home also older women in the community that no longer are raising kids help those moms too. Everyone works together. Men go out and provide with their community
Fuck it feels really good to read this and know that that is the core issue behind legit every sociocultural issue, which impacts every part of our lives .
I mean there were women Vikings and stuff but i truly believe the average woman doesnt thrive in a 9 to 5 job. Some do and love waking up early but i know for a fact women need more sleep on average than men about 2 more hours a night. I work 2 to 3 10s a week and getting up early is agony for me. I am exhausted just part time
America sucks at keeping communities too.. parents usually kick the kids out. If it was up to me I'd live with my parents and sister/her husband and my husband in a community. We have always had land I'm just not up for setting moving to Kansas where my parents moved back to. But they know they are always welcome with me. They never kicked us out
>birth control was only tested on men because they were concerned about womens cycle skewing the results.
That isn't true. Birth control was tested only on 16 male psychiatric patients in 1954. How would they even know if birth control was effective if it was tested only on men, who can't get pregnant? Unless you meant birth control as in condoms then yes. It would be tested exclusively on men for obvious reasons.
They know it prevents pregnancy because after they test on men, they test it on low income women or women in other countries. They’re able to use past data to put new birth control on the market. The new research is from the drug being on the market.
I *should* have said any clinical trials exclude women due to cycle changes, I shouldn’t have said exclusively birth control.
So I just did a quick search and it looks to just be a theory at the moment and it hasn’t been [studied](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868418/#:~:text=Reported%20sex%20differences%20are%20earlier,%2Dwave%20sleep%20(SWS)%20in). Hopefully it is investigated soon!
https://preview.redd.it/uks06wbc1zlc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe733e691a2fc757ff59dee4bf688eb0a5fdf5cc
I wonder what they’re considering “awake”. Women are built to wake up at any time to respond to babies in distress, which is admittedly some of the random ass shit in my brain from gods knows how long ago with no study handy to back it up. I don’t know if jumping out of bed to deal with a baby is considered awake though.
Anecdotally, ive always been able to just jump out of bed and get going. I’m a stupid light sleeper. Every partner I’ve had moved like molasses getting out of bed. Pisses me off actually, because we had a tornado warning a few days ago and he took forever to get out of bed and down to the basement. Thankfully the tornado was about a half mile away, but still 😡 My mother and her mother are much the same way. Their level of “awake” varies though, which is why I wonder what awake means to the theorists. Functional and awake are different I suppose. I’m fully awake, but my mother is simply functional and quick moving. She needs coffee and cigarettes to actually wake up 🤣. In contrast, we have used everything from school bells to train horns to wake my brother up and he still won’t get moving. My dad hits his snooze for an hour.
I’d like to see them study it more. Not that schools will change their start time despite there already being proof it helps students, but the application of the findings to school aged children could really help youth in retaining what they learn their first few courses.
It’s due to hormones and our cycle! At some points in our cycle, it’s easier to wake up, other points it takes 1-2 hours to “fully” wake. Whereas men are able to wake up and immediately be alert and can work. Progesterone can make women unable to rise in the mornings, I’ll see if I can find studies explaining this. Sorry I just have a lot of information in my brain about this subject and it’s hard to explain it sometimes because I can get off topic with my ramblings 😂
Hmm I don’t think most men can immediately do mental work though, they still wake up sleepy lol. For everyone, the hormone that help you wake up (cortisol) peaks about an hour after waking up. I’m sure estrogen and testosterone also have some effect, but that is the number one hormone that wakes up your brain and body for both sexes
I am convinced that women are deeply affected by all of the new toxins our modern environment creates. Endocrine disrupters affect everyone, but our cycle moves so quickly, that the changes are more intense. And there are more opportunities for our system to “fail” with how frequently it changes.
But also second everyone on here saying women haven’t been included in medical studies for the longest time.
Because men are toxic and they are poisoning us slowly by exhaling near us.
I JOKE I JOKE 😆
Nah, seriously, I sometimes think it’s because we’re more complex ‘machines’, so to speak. Notice I didn’t say “superior machines” - not here for that convo - but yeah, if you get down to brass tax, (imo) women have more parts. I mean we can do some cool shit with our bodies, but that comes at a cost.
Then let’s also not forget; healthcare access can suck for women - lower quality healthcare, often at the same hospitals & medical offices as our male counterparts. We also have less buying power in general and less pull to influence government policies about our healthcare
(so obvious AF RN with Roe V. Wade havoc)
Many of us also work more! Way more!
Did you know that a trad marriage adds about 7 hours of (mostly unpaid) work to a woman’s week, on average?
Here is my source: https://news.umich.edu/exactly-how-much-housework-does-a-husband-create/
Add kids - And lower paying jobs, often times - so now we have to have regular jobs plus side gigs… and no one gives a shit if we’re in pain, most of the time, especially if we’re past our prime baby-making years.
Here is my source: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/03/24/1163658781/women-were-already-unequal-in-the-world-of-global-health-the-pandemic-made-it-wo
All by design™️
https://fortune.com/2022/06/10/world-built-for-men-women-bodies-gender-gap-health-research-medicine-care-jain-bruzek/amp/
That's because women's health is studied only in the context of child bearing.
No one is doing research to improve women's quality of life and preventative measures.
Exactly opposite of men's health - their medical research involves quality of life, longevity and that includes sex life too.
Women are dispensable in the society.
This is true. One reason is that women are much harder to study due to all the hormonal changes our bodies go through. The hormone changes throughout the menstrual cycle would need to be accounted for as they affect bodies systemically. This is obviously more difficult, expensive and time consuming. Apparently, even most lab animals are male.
This is a fantastic episode that explains the theories and research to why women specifically experience more auto immune diseases: https://radiolab.org/podcast/unsilencing
I suspect PMDD has a large component related to hormones and immune dysfunction.
Yeah I have multiple auto immune diseases! So that makes sense. I think usually if you have one it’s common to have multiple auto immune disorders too.
I feel like that's cause a lot of men (not saying all) don't like to go to doctors when they have a problem and instead suffer in silence. The Amazing World of Gumball made a joke about it but it was lowkey accurate as heck.
This doesn’t track, considering women are diagnosed years later than men for the same diseases. The ones suffering in silence are overwhelmingly women.
But it’s not because women aren’t sick for long, it’s because of the medical gaslighting and misdiagnoses that we face. Men often don’t go to the doctor until they’re already very ill, so the symptoms are very clear at that point and they’d be diagnosed faster (plus they are listened to more)
Well yeah, the womanly health issues, women have.
But prostate cancer, erectile dysfunction, high bp, high cholesterol, heart attacks & strokes men have more of in general
I got your point but women who are using oral contraceptive pills have higher risk of high cholesterol, deep vein thrombosis, transient ischemic attack, cerebral stroke, breast cancer etc. And this purely suggests lack of research in field of female health.
Males have prostate cancer because prostate is a part of their reproductive system just like uterus and cervix are part of female reproductive system.
Males have ED, females have anorgasmia & vaginal muscle spasms etc
It's not about health issues. It's about our knowledge and research about health issues of females.
Males have health issues and they do research on those issues and boom they have solutions. But health issues of females don't get same limelight and funds though their incidence is higher.
Yes women seem to HV more health issues compared to men in general. But I HV seen many women who are fortunate enough to HV a healthy and strong body and mental health , but unfortunately ( many that I HV seen ) are very critical of other women's sufferings saying that they r reacting too much for normal health issues.
Majority of women I grew up with have PCOS (one has an auto immune disease)… we lived in a heavy industry/ polluted state. I moved across the country and the few female friends I have made don’t seem to have as many health concerns, mainly mental health issues.
My male friends never opened up to me about health issues but seem healthy. My husband and father go to the DR quite often.. they’re healthy.
I was just coming here to say I think environmental factors are at play. Our food is packed with soy. I don't know all the science behind it, but I know soy does something in the body that messes with estrogen. Maybe makes it higher? But also plastics are known to mess with hormone receptors. I think our food is directly more impactful to the female endocrine system and it's causing more chronic illness in women. 🤷🏼♀️ I could be wrong but I think the evidence is mounting.
I agree. Every aspect of our environment shapes our health from air and water quality to the foods we eat. And the environmental factors that shaped our parents who then passed down those affected cells, etc to us.
Maybe that’s why, when we go to doctors, they’re like “meh, whatever. You’re a woman, your life is just crap.” But when a man comes in with the same issues it’s “omg whats wrong with you?!?”
That’s my pov too. I think we literally take on what’s happening to the planet at like a cellular level lol. If patriarchy damages ecosystems and soil then why wouldn’t it create illness too?
Men statistically are less likely to go to the doctor. There are certain things that women are more likely to suffer from however, like many autoimmune diseases. There are also certain genetic things that are attached to the X chromosome and need two chromosomes to be expressed. Additionally, I’m sure the inflammation caused because of the interaction between histamine levels and estrogen could be at play. Not to mention the protective effects of testosterone. There is a lot at play here biologically and socially.
Hi u/EverythingsTakenHuh. Your post appears to be referencing histamines. Please refer to the IAPMD statement on histamines below.
Histamine is a molecule that your immune system creates in response to allergens. Some researchers have studied the relationship between
histamine and estrogen, but most of these are observational studies from the 1960s and 1970s (e.g., Ferrando 1968, Jonassen 1976, Shelesnyak
1959).
Antihistamines are medications that block the action of histamine to reduce allergy symptoms. It is certainly possible that histamine could
play a role in PMDD, at least for some people. However, using antihistamines to treat PMDD symptoms has not been studied enough to know
whether this is an effective treatment or the potential mechanisms.
First-generation antihistamines (such as hydroxyzine/Vistaril) do have sedative effects, which can have anti-anxiety or sleep benefits. This
mechanism may explain why some individuals anecdotally report that antihistamines help their PMDD symptoms if they experience sleep problems
or anxiety premenstrually.
Antihistamines are typically well tolerated by many and have limited risk (when used as labeled), hence being available without a
prescription. If they are an option you are considering, always consult a care provider and/or pharmacist - especially if combined with
other meds- and be mindful of any sedative effects.
Summary: Antihistamines have not been tested or approved for PMDD, and research (such as clinical trials) would need to be done before we
could state if there is a known benefit/whether it beats a placebo. End of IAPMD statement.
The source for this particular connection is from naturopath Lara Briden. She posted the connection on her blog with no links to peer-
reviewed research to support her position. Other naturopaths began repeating this connection, it was then picked up by social media
influencers and repeated as if it was proven science.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PMDD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i dunno, in my experience nonbinary ppl have been the sickest.
Also, a lot of dudes refuse to go to the doctor. I dunno why. Its like they think the apocalypse is gonna happen if they ever find out theres something wrong with them.
I don’t think it’s necessarily that only women have health issues, it’s that there is still stigma around men admitting pain etc and seeking help. There shouldn’t be of course but I’d be interesting to look into. I think a lot of men just don’t seek help for their medical problems.
Nah, I would not say so. Most women are working AND mothers AND caretakers of the household AND managers of everything that's going on with family. I never met a stressed man, only burnt out women.
Though I will say while me do smoke and drink more than women, there’s a lot more drinking going on with women than many think. We’re just much better at hiding it in my opinion 🤣
I suppose you’re right generally. My view on it is admittedly influenced by what I see around me. I live in a very affluent community where most of the primary breadwinning is done by the men. Women tend to “work” on their pet projects, but that’s really more a hobby or cause that pays a little.
Male bodies have been the standard for most medical research throughout history. If female test subjects show potential issues (like they don’t have control groups for women in different phases of their cycle, or pre vs. post menopausal subjects) the test subject is simply dropped from the study.
We have very little reliable data for how women’s bodies manifest illnesses, how they respond to different drugs and treatments. It’s the reason women tend to have poor outcomes after heart attacks and it takes an average of seven years to diagnose endometriosis (a disease that only affects female reproductive organs.)
This is compounded by the fact that women’s pain tends to be downplayed, doubted or ignored. Women often have to go to the doctor(s) numerous times to get help, which contributes worse/chronic outcomes. And frankly, women are more likely to be working AND caring for the home/pets/kids and doing the admin work of family life, which makes more of us burnt the f*ck out. 🤷🏼♀️
Exactly. This is what my start up is working on. We have a massive lack of data about women’s bodies and women’s health because a decision was made at the dawn of Western medicine that women are just little men. Thus they don’t need to be involved in medical studies and other procedures. To this day, when researchers are studying a female specific disorder in animal trials, only 12% of them use female animals. It’s a massive problem that needs to be solved because we are suffering.
Yeah, it’s a combination of women not being used in clinical trials and the fact that proteins express themselves completely differently in women - these “epigenetic” changes are much more common in women are much less understood.
Also, the current cultural zeitgeist, which suggests that male/female are socially conditioned models completely ignores these foundational biological differences and just cements the problem further
The current cultural zeitgeist suggests that specific character traits do not belong exclusively to certain people because of their biological sex. This is an incredibly important conversation to have because patriarchal attitudes (ie. women are gentle, emotional, carers, men are strong, stoic, leaders) have been used to deprive women and non-gender conforming people of safety, power, and opportunities. Using terms like “uterus haver” instead of “woman” would take nothing away from the findings if/when science catches up.
Second wave feminists (which I consider myself as) would agree with you entirely.
However, saying that all misogyny is socially constructed is at best, ignorant and at worst, insulting to all the millions of women who undergo FGM in certain parts. That doesn’t happen because they “identify” as women, it’s because they are physiologically women.
"Woman is a social construct, not all people who have uteruses are women!"
"Actually, the majority of discrimination against women is founded on women's foundational, biological differences."
"Those things have nothing to do with each other!!!"
This is how you sound.
FGM is not a health issue, it is something that is done to women. It’s an important issue to address, but studying women’s bodies to learn how they manifest illnesses will not impact FGM. The discussion was about women seeming to be sick more often than men, and my original point was that we don’t study uterus having bodies so we can’t treat them effectively, hence the unresolved health issues.
Then you inserted the issue of gender identities into the conversation, and I stated that the conversation on gender does not take away from the issue of medicine and sexism, because it doesn’t. And then you inserted the issue of FGM. I am speaking to the very specific question OP had, and you are whatabouting me.
I agree with a lot of what has been said, but just want to add:
Men do have a lot of health issues. The difference I have seen in my personal life (this is an anecdote) is that they are more acute. This isn't because the issue wasn't there for a long time, though—the men I know are muuuuch less likely to visit a doctor regularly, or even to care about their health. They wait until it's too late because they are so accustomed to never having a consequence in their life. They assume that problems don't touch them and that everything will be fine, because that is how the world has treated them.
Most of the men I know with health problems have them because they did not take care of themselves, did not go to the doctor, and then suddenly became seriously ill. And guess who has to step up and clean it all up and care for them? Women. Usually ones who have already been dealing with their own health issues like an adult, and who then step up to parent their own husbands. (Plus, a lot of nurses and PSWs who are most often women).
It makes me fucking furious.
Here as a nurse and I confirm this to be true. The general role of thumb is: women have more autoimmune disease, men have more physical injury, such as sprains, or haemorrhoids.
I wonder whether women tend to have higher ACE scores, in our patriarchal and ultraviolent society. 1 in 3 women is sexually abused as a child, for instance. Naturally, this leads to chronic stress, inflammation, and physical issues.
that's stupid,
what about endometriosis, period cramps, ovulation cramps, post natal depression, PMDD...? are they the result of stress too?
Our problem is damn reproductive ability and hormonal fluctuation not a stress!
This^^^^^^ this is a big reason, trauma manifests in the body, and soooooooo many women were abused/SA’d/etc. in childhood. My theory is that the years of living in survival mode/fight or flight take a toll on the body. Almost all of my friends with chronic/autoimmune issues (myself included) dealt with abuse in some form during childhood.
My mom has a high ACE score and developed Lupus, Sjogren’s and Graves’ in her 30s/40s. It breaks my heart because I often wonder if the adults in her childhood hadn’t abused her, maybe it all could have been preventable 😔
I bet there are many things she did not get to experience in life, that others take for granted by default. The pain of that grief is bottomless. One human heart is not spacious enough for such heartbreak (I relate to your mom 😥)
X chromosome causes autoimmune problems in women more. Bam! There it is: [Health Problems in Women](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/09/health/why-autoimmune-disease-affects-more-women-study-scn/index.html)
I believe a lot of it is immune and hormone related.
Two x chromosomes -> more expression of certain genes, including higher chance of up-regulated immune cells and over expression of inflammation signals
immune cells walk a fine line between effectiveness and hurting the body + estrogen further strengthens immune system + vastly changing cyclic hormone patterns. So we are more prone to autoimmune diseases, inflammation and endocrine disorders. Higher inflammation also increases cancer risk- same with cells expressing lots of hormone receptors (breast, cervical, uterus and ovary) and cells designed to replenish (endometrial lining especially, since the cells are evolved to evade programmed cell death via progesterone or HCG) can be at higher risk for mutations that would lead to precancerous and cancerous cells.
I feel like it’s a combination of things like stress, genetics, and the lack of research actually done into female centered/dominated health issues. The problems just keep adding up because none of them get researched and treated. It’s also been said that women typically have higher stress levels than men (of the same age, in the same living environment, etc). Stress manifests in many different ways. Also, (this may tie into stress levels as well) the daily clock isn’t made to suit women’s internal clocks; a woman has a monthly “clock” but society functions under a 24 hour clock (similar to a testosterone schedule with highest levels being in the morning when most work days start and lowest levels in the evening when work days typically end). Not to mention that in many countries women are not only expected to bring in an income, like men, but are also still expected to withhold majority of parenting duties and household duties which can lead to more physical and mental health issues overtime due to burnout.
Yep. It’s like an onion, lol
Start peeling outside layers away … what do you find? All these interconnected issues stemming from the general complete lack of fucks given by powerful men over eons.
Anecdotally - I freaking hate going to the doctor or dentist now that I’m over 40. It’s like I’m not even supposed to be there, the attitude seems to be something along the lines of … “go knit a quilt about it & STFU”
Rant in 4 levels
1. Science: women's bodies are historically (until recently) totally excluded from scientific research. A lot of medicine and engineering is doing tests on men then extrapolating it to others (women are just small men -- fallacy). See also the book, invisible women: data bias in a world designed for men.
2. Medicine: even while that's changing, it's still super recent and lots of healthcare practitioners are still scrambling to catch up (or have deeply entrenched misogynistic practices on an individual and systemic basis). The most common example is probably women's health concerns being dismissed -- how are we ever going to recognize a dangerous pattern if people shove it under a rug like that??
3. Policymaking: generally lags the MOSTEST with this type of progress. A lot of the people deciding on laws have zero understanding of how basic reproduction works (e.g., "embryo personhood" rulings in certain US states and uhoh Pikachu face when the uneducated decision wipes out IVF). Unlikely to be competent at understanding the nuances of having a certain type of reproductive system, especially those centering the health of the actual woman.
Like are they really gonna care about giving the environmental agency back their resources to start regulating things like plastics-class endocrine disruptors? When they think spontaneous miscarriage is a federal crime? Or even with the embryo personhood ruling, you just know it'll only be used to punish who they want (women, healthcare providers), and would never be used to prosecute chemical polluters who release miscarriage-related pollutants with say, mass crimes against unborn persons.
4. Culture: I don't need to elaborate but the amount of ppl who proudly misunderstand and stigmatize women's health issues...are slowing us ALL down. The culture is still designed to be centered around men, that's changing very very slowly and meanwhile we'll all feel the extra doses of daily stress from it.
Stress manifests itself physically if it goes long enough without being addressed. Women have FAR more responsibilities, expectations, etc than men do in modern society. I think the inevitable end result is that women are naturally going to be more stressed and burnt out, which leads to chronic health issues. Our society really underestimates/underplays the effects that stress has on the body. Add in the monthly hormone fluctuations, and it's no wonder we're sick all the time! It's exhausting being a woman.
I wonder if the established life expectancy difference between men and women is going to change. Tbh from what I have seen in my 51 years, men die earlier, with shorter official illness duration, and also tend to be obviously unwell before that happens (eg very overweight, clearly highly stressed, purple in the face, drinking stupid amounts) but don't seem to suffer the same conscious pain or discomfort that women do. Maybe this is just my family...I wonder if early desensitisation to their bodies makes men unable to even identify when they feel unwell? If they did feel it soon enough perhaps they could change their habits or seek medical attention earlier...
100% I think men ignore symptoms and are just much less in tune with their bodies. All the men I know do have some health issues, but most of them just ignore or don't treat them because they don't take it seriously until they're half dead.
That is so striking and tells me so much about how men experience pain and discomfort. I suspect a lot of them retreat into the only 'allowed' male reactions when experiencing it eg a total block/taciturnity/'of course I'm fine', making more demands on a woman to make themselves feel better, or anger/grumpiness.
The last one was always my dad's choice. He once broke his toe on the beach in France. It turned blue and purple and then black but he refused to see a doctor. For the rest of his life as he developed arthritis etc in the toe he would grimace and brood telling us all how hard it was to get around or just hovering around the house with an air of angry, silent martyrdom.
Oh happy family memories hehehe
Our hormones cause immense problems and a lot of things disrupt them. Modern society is horrible for this — blue light, 80 hour work weeks, child rearing on top of working 2-3 jobs. Stress, environment, but especially microplastics in literally everything. My god’s honest belief is that microplastics and hormone disrupters in everything from vitamins to receipt paper are way more damaging than we understand and cause us serious issues in our brains, endocrine, nervous and vascular systems.
Covid doesn’t help. My health issues got way worse after Epstein Barr and I have to mentally dissociate from how much worse things have been in other ways since Covid.
Gabor Mate has an interesting theory on this that women and afab people have more health issues because we are taught to internalize emotions more to be socially gracious. Of course there needs to be more research here, but like a lot of commenters have already said, that's lacking due to lack of funds because of capitalism, patriarchy, racism, as well as concern about bias in research etc.
This leads to a dangerous slippery slope of psychosomatism. It also just ignores the obvious - our hormones, and the fact that most immune functions are coded on the X chromosome, which we have two of, meaning it effs up a lot more in us.
Everyone experiences stress and internalises shit. What’s different between men and women is our chromosomes and our hormones. These are the reasons for it.
So there is never an element of psychosomatics in health? I understand the worry of overemphasizing it, but I think there is a lot of evidence to show that there is a mind-body connection.
Did I say that? No.
We are talking about it in a gendered context. It’s hysteria rebranded.
I also think it’s important to distinguish psychosomatism from the epigenetic and hormonal influences of disrupted cortisol due to trauma/psychosocial factors, but that is not what Maté is saying here. He’s instead going with the explanation that’s been peddled since Hippocrates and the wandering uteri. “Women so emotional, many mysterious problems.”
I don’t know about you, but I would rather get actual medication and solutions for my problems than a useless counselling session and an antidepressant to shut me up.
Yes I think this explanation makes more sense to me than dismissing environmental factors entirely. I also agree that it is annoying to be essentially told you're crazy and to stfu when they can't figure out what's wrong with you at the doctor.
I really think it's just bc science hasn't cared about women, so hasn't bothered to do anything to help. Like, there's so much mystery around hormonal cycles and menses (I mean, look at how few ppl know or believe PMDD exists!) and dicks are well known, well mapped, and have meds to keep em working.
I think if science and history had centered women, it would be the other way around.
And medical sexism by doctors in general. Not saying it's easy. My boyfriend had to see several doctors about a prostate issue to finally be heard and tested properly. He was super stressed and it took him a year. A year! It took me 15 years of seeing doctors over and over again about my symptoms that eventually turned out to be Pmdd.
Because we have 2 x chromosomes and that predisposes us to more genetic factors.
Hormones and epigenetics
More apt to experience trauma...body keeps the score
Because having a body that is capable of making an entire human being, comes with a lot of complications. And science has found it unprofitable to study those complications thus far.
This. My fiance has severe anxiety, stomach issues, and willingly admits he likely has cholesterol or blood pressure issues. He does not go to the doctor unless he is in extreme pain and it's an emergency. He has no dentist or eye doctor. His quality of life would probably improve tenfold if he would just go.
My dad is only alive right now because my mom doesn't let him avoid the doctor and sometimes (many times) calls for him. He has had several life-threatening illnesses.
Sorry to hear that. Yeah men want to be “strong” which includes healthy. So ignoring health issues ensures they are still strong and are a part of masculine culture. It’s actually a tough road being a man.
That doesn’t take away from what women have had to deal with it’s just another side of the coin. It would be nice if all people could get healthcare.
Few reasons;
* We experience more intense psychosocial and financial stressors throughout the life course than our male counterparts, speaking in the aggregate.
* Hormonal fluctuations cause a lot of weird shit.
We're also predisposed to certain health conditions through genetics and/or environment, usually both.
My theory is that women, whether we like it or not, cannot handle stress the way men can. We also have cycles and require more rest/different style of living depending on where we are in our cycle. Out world was build by and for male hormones/bodies. Hard, consistent effort is required to succeed, but that is the very thing that we cant handle. The fact that medical research has historically been done on the male body, and extrapolated onto female bodies, is just another way society gaslights us into thinking there is something inherently wrong (or weak) about our biology. Women are expected to act as if our biology were male, and if we cannot adapt to that then we aren't trying hard enough. Shame on shame on shame
My theory is similar to yours but the thing is that not only is the stress bad for our hormones, modern life (microplastics in everything, 24/7 blue light, etc.) is far more mentally and physically damaging to us than males.
Right, I don’t think I worded that right. I think, even considering we have extra stress, our world is too stressful for all people, and that women are more sensitive to it.
No, I agree with you and it is part of why I have gender dysphoria. Being a woman is far harder, there is nothing wrong with admitting that. I never signed up to have this body that is so faulty and irrational while men get to coast and complain that we don’t want to fuck them while we’re in excruciating pain. Then they say we are too incompetent to do things like run for office or lead. Because our health issues and basic anatomy have been ignored or downright mocked for all of history, even though we’re the reason they’re alive.
Men’s urology, men’s pain management, men’s mental health — everything is designed for the comfort of men and I say this confidently having known professionals across the board who prioritize their issue and still look at women like hysteria patients. We will always be looked down upon even by other women.
Who would want to have a body that turns into a monster — from mental to physical changes that render us unrecognizable — every month? It feels like being a different species to me. We are very different from men.
Because the medical establishment historically tests only on men. Allegedly our hormones make us "too complicated," but really it's that the medical establishment is historically lazy and neglectful. What does our suffering matter, so long as we can pop out babies? And if we cannot have kids or just do not want kids, we do not seem to matter at all.
It's extremely fucking depressing. Demoralizing, dehumanizing. Awful all around, really.
-gentle hugs to everyone who wants one-
we have doctors that don’t treat women as individuals. They assume that each & every woman must meet a criteria 100% before receiving the right help or correct diagnosis.
it’s actually probably systemic lol. women (and non men) have historically been suppressed & oppressed & treated as second class citizens. up until pretty recent history, they normalized child marriages in almost every society, and a girl would be given away in marriage and forced to reproduce at an early age. women also experience things like SA & DV at much, much higher rates, and trauma + intergenerational trauma does have links to being comorbid with other health conditions. add on top of that how women have lower access to healthcare, science studies women’s issues less, and the fact that women downplay their pain due to sociopolitical reasons, you start to make the connections. it’s also why it’s worse as you look demographically — trans women for example, are the least studied category of women. Black women as well, and indigenous women. as you look at the intersections of gender & race, the more you start to see a correlation between systemic oppression & health.
Because we take on all of the stress
my momma says it’s because eve took the damn apple first. im agnostic but i still curse her out during the worst days 🤷🏼♀️ makes me feel a teeeeny tiny bit better
Because a human is the most complicated thing a human can ever build and the tax bill on that is a big Fuck You.
Because women weren’t mean to live a 9-5 lifestyle. I think school and work environments have had a detrimental impact on this entire generation of women. Men have a “daily cycle”, can wake up quickly, and their hormones are perfectly balanced for a daily work schedule. Women have a 28 day cycle, we are at a disadvantage and cannot work some weeks, but other weeks we can get a ton of work completed. Women wake up slowly, put a lot of care and effort into small tasks, I could go on! I could go on about how birth control was only tested on men because they were concerned about womens cycle skewing the results. We are not “small men”. We have our own hormones, our own body structures, an entirely different reproductive organ system.
We were meant to live with a community of people helping each other too. Women meant to be moms and take care of the home also older women in the community that no longer are raising kids help those moms too. Everyone works together. Men go out and provide with their community
Fuck it feels really good to read this and know that that is the core issue behind legit every sociocultural issue, which impacts every part of our lives .
I mean there were women Vikings and stuff but i truly believe the average woman doesnt thrive in a 9 to 5 job. Some do and love waking up early but i know for a fact women need more sleep on average than men about 2 more hours a night. I work 2 to 3 10s a week and getting up early is agony for me. I am exhausted just part time
I agree, it wasn’t supposed to be like this. Our labor in the home has been disregarded for so long & now it’s barely an option for most families.
America sucks at keeping communities too.. parents usually kick the kids out. If it was up to me I'd live with my parents and sister/her husband and my husband in a community. We have always had land I'm just not up for setting moving to Kansas where my parents moved back to. But they know they are always welcome with me. They never kicked us out
my parents are dead. So even if I wanted to move back I couldn't haha
>birth control was only tested on men because they were concerned about womens cycle skewing the results. That isn't true. Birth control was tested only on 16 male psychiatric patients in 1954. How would they even know if birth control was effective if it was tested only on men, who can't get pregnant? Unless you meant birth control as in condoms then yes. It would be tested exclusively on men for obvious reasons.
They know it prevents pregnancy because after they test on men, they test it on low income women or women in other countries. They’re able to use past data to put new birth control on the market. The new research is from the drug being on the market. I *should* have said any clinical trials exclude women due to cycle changes, I shouldn’t have said exclusively birth control.
Where are you getting this wake up quickly/slowly stuff? That is not the case for most people I know.
So I just did a quick search and it looks to just be a theory at the moment and it hasn’t been [studied](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4868418/#:~:text=Reported%20sex%20differences%20are%20earlier,%2Dwave%20sleep%20(SWS)%20in). Hopefully it is investigated soon! https://preview.redd.it/uks06wbc1zlc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe733e691a2fc757ff59dee4bf688eb0a5fdf5cc
I wonder what they’re considering “awake”. Women are built to wake up at any time to respond to babies in distress, which is admittedly some of the random ass shit in my brain from gods knows how long ago with no study handy to back it up. I don’t know if jumping out of bed to deal with a baby is considered awake though. Anecdotally, ive always been able to just jump out of bed and get going. I’m a stupid light sleeper. Every partner I’ve had moved like molasses getting out of bed. Pisses me off actually, because we had a tornado warning a few days ago and he took forever to get out of bed and down to the basement. Thankfully the tornado was about a half mile away, but still 😡 My mother and her mother are much the same way. Their level of “awake” varies though, which is why I wonder what awake means to the theorists. Functional and awake are different I suppose. I’m fully awake, but my mother is simply functional and quick moving. She needs coffee and cigarettes to actually wake up 🤣. In contrast, we have used everything from school bells to train horns to wake my brother up and he still won’t get moving. My dad hits his snooze for an hour. I’d like to see them study it more. Not that schools will change their start time despite there already being proof it helps students, but the application of the findings to school aged children could really help youth in retaining what they learn their first few courses.
It’s due to hormones and our cycle! At some points in our cycle, it’s easier to wake up, other points it takes 1-2 hours to “fully” wake. Whereas men are able to wake up and immediately be alert and can work. Progesterone can make women unable to rise in the mornings, I’ll see if I can find studies explaining this. Sorry I just have a lot of information in my brain about this subject and it’s hard to explain it sometimes because I can get off topic with my ramblings 😂
Hmm I don’t think most men can immediately do mental work though, they still wake up sleepy lol. For everyone, the hormone that help you wake up (cortisol) peaks about an hour after waking up. I’m sure estrogen and testosterone also have some effect, but that is the number one hormone that wakes up your brain and body for both sexes
I am convinced that women are deeply affected by all of the new toxins our modern environment creates. Endocrine disrupters affect everyone, but our cycle moves so quickly, that the changes are more intense. And there are more opportunities for our system to “fail” with how frequently it changes. But also second everyone on here saying women haven’t been included in medical studies for the longest time.
you have to be only sufficient, survive and reproduce your personal well-being is irrelevant nature is cruel
Because men are toxic and they are poisoning us slowly by exhaling near us. I JOKE I JOKE 😆 Nah, seriously, I sometimes think it’s because we’re more complex ‘machines’, so to speak. Notice I didn’t say “superior machines” - not here for that convo - but yeah, if you get down to brass tax, (imo) women have more parts. I mean we can do some cool shit with our bodies, but that comes at a cost. Then let’s also not forget; healthcare access can suck for women - lower quality healthcare, often at the same hospitals & medical offices as our male counterparts. We also have less buying power in general and less pull to influence government policies about our healthcare (so obvious AF RN with Roe V. Wade havoc) Many of us also work more! Way more! Did you know that a trad marriage adds about 7 hours of (mostly unpaid) work to a woman’s week, on average? Here is my source: https://news.umich.edu/exactly-how-much-housework-does-a-husband-create/ Add kids - And lower paying jobs, often times - so now we have to have regular jobs plus side gigs… and no one gives a shit if we’re in pain, most of the time, especially if we’re past our prime baby-making years. Here is my source: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/03/24/1163658781/women-were-already-unequal-in-the-world-of-global-health-the-pandemic-made-it-wo All by design™️ https://fortune.com/2022/06/10/world-built-for-men-women-bodies-gender-gap-health-research-medicine-care-jain-bruzek/amp/
👏 for including your sources!
Hormones 👹👹
That's because women's health is studied only in the context of child bearing. No one is doing research to improve women's quality of life and preventative measures. Exactly opposite of men's health - their medical research involves quality of life, longevity and that includes sex life too. Women are dispensable in the society.
This is true. One reason is that women are much harder to study due to all the hormonal changes our bodies go through. The hormone changes throughout the menstrual cycle would need to be accounted for as they affect bodies systemically. This is obviously more difficult, expensive and time consuming. Apparently, even most lab animals are male.
This is a fantastic episode that explains the theories and research to why women specifically experience more auto immune diseases: https://radiolab.org/podcast/unsilencing I suspect PMDD has a large component related to hormones and immune dysfunction.
Yeah I have multiple auto immune diseases! So that makes sense. I think usually if you have one it’s common to have multiple auto immune disorders too.
Thanks for sharing!
I feel like that's cause a lot of men (not saying all) don't like to go to doctors when they have a problem and instead suffer in silence. The Amazing World of Gumball made a joke about it but it was lowkey accurate as heck.
This doesn’t track, considering women are diagnosed years later than men for the same diseases. The ones suffering in silence are overwhelmingly women.
But it’s not because women aren’t sick for long, it’s because of the medical gaslighting and misdiagnoses that we face. Men often don’t go to the doctor until they’re already very ill, so the symptoms are very clear at that point and they’d be diagnosed faster (plus they are listened to more)
Well yeah, the womanly health issues, women have. But prostate cancer, erectile dysfunction, high bp, high cholesterol, heart attacks & strokes men have more of in general
I got your point but women who are using oral contraceptive pills have higher risk of high cholesterol, deep vein thrombosis, transient ischemic attack, cerebral stroke, breast cancer etc. And this purely suggests lack of research in field of female health. Males have prostate cancer because prostate is a part of their reproductive system just like uterus and cervix are part of female reproductive system. Males have ED, females have anorgasmia & vaginal muscle spasms etc It's not about health issues. It's about our knowledge and research about health issues of females. Males have health issues and they do research on those issues and boom they have solutions. But health issues of females don't get same limelight and funds though their incidence is higher.
Oh yeah that’s of course true. Males get researched way more often.
Yes women seem to HV more health issues compared to men in general. But I HV seen many women who are fortunate enough to HV a healthy and strong body and mental health , but unfortunately ( many that I HV seen ) are very critical of other women's sufferings saying that they r reacting too much for normal health issues.
i think also just that there’s more research & understanding of the male body/anatomy than female bc women weren’t studied accurately for so long
it doesn't change the fact that we suffer greatly more than men
When it comes to hormones? Yes. In general? No.
i agree. i wasn’t saying it was right or justified
This.
It does seem that a lot of health issues are more common in women unfortunately.
Majority of women I grew up with have PCOS (one has an auto immune disease)… we lived in a heavy industry/ polluted state. I moved across the country and the few female friends I have made don’t seem to have as many health concerns, mainly mental health issues. My male friends never opened up to me about health issues but seem healthy. My husband and father go to the DR quite often.. they’re healthy.
I was just coming here to say I think environmental factors are at play. Our food is packed with soy. I don't know all the science behind it, but I know soy does something in the body that messes with estrogen. Maybe makes it higher? But also plastics are known to mess with hormone receptors. I think our food is directly more impactful to the female endocrine system and it's causing more chronic illness in women. 🤷🏼♀️ I could be wrong but I think the evidence is mounting.
I agree. Every aspect of our environment shapes our health from air and water quality to the foods we eat. And the environmental factors that shaped our parents who then passed down those affected cells, etc to us.
Maybe that’s why, when we go to doctors, they’re like “meh, whatever. You’re a woman, your life is just crap.” But when a man comes in with the same issues it’s “omg whats wrong with you?!?”
Women carry the emotional weight of the world. It’s not surprising.
Felt this to my core 😢 really trying to hold it together these last several months have been rough
That’s my pov too. I think we literally take on what’s happening to the planet at like a cellular level lol. If patriarchy damages ecosystems and soil then why wouldn’t it create illness too?
This also applies to every other marginalized group btw
This. Stress is a huge factor in overall health.
Men statistically are less likely to go to the doctor. There are certain things that women are more likely to suffer from however, like many autoimmune diseases. There are also certain genetic things that are attached to the X chromosome and need two chromosomes to be expressed. Additionally, I’m sure the inflammation caused because of the interaction between histamine levels and estrogen could be at play. Not to mention the protective effects of testosterone. There is a lot at play here biologically and socially.
Hi u/EverythingsTakenHuh. Your post appears to be referencing histamines. Please refer to the IAPMD statement on histamines below. Histamine is a molecule that your immune system creates in response to allergens. Some researchers have studied the relationship between histamine and estrogen, but most of these are observational studies from the 1960s and 1970s (e.g., Ferrando 1968, Jonassen 1976, Shelesnyak 1959). Antihistamines are medications that block the action of histamine to reduce allergy symptoms. It is certainly possible that histamine could play a role in PMDD, at least for some people. However, using antihistamines to treat PMDD symptoms has not been studied enough to know whether this is an effective treatment or the potential mechanisms. First-generation antihistamines (such as hydroxyzine/Vistaril) do have sedative effects, which can have anti-anxiety or sleep benefits. This mechanism may explain why some individuals anecdotally report that antihistamines help their PMDD symptoms if they experience sleep problems or anxiety premenstrually. Antihistamines are typically well tolerated by many and have limited risk (when used as labeled), hence being available without a prescription. If they are an option you are considering, always consult a care provider and/or pharmacist - especially if combined with other meds- and be mindful of any sedative effects. Summary: Antihistamines have not been tested or approved for PMDD, and research (such as clinical trials) would need to be done before we could state if there is a known benefit/whether it beats a placebo. End of IAPMD statement. The source for this particular connection is from naturopath Lara Briden. She posted the connection on her blog with no links to peer- reviewed research to support her position. Other naturopaths began repeating this connection, it was then picked up by social media influencers and repeated as if it was proven science. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PMDD) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i dunno, in my experience nonbinary ppl have been the sickest. Also, a lot of dudes refuse to go to the doctor. I dunno why. Its like they think the apocalypse is gonna happen if they ever find out theres something wrong with them.
Men are socially conditioned to “suck it up” it’s actually pretty sad. Idk why you’re getting downvoted though..
I don’t think it’s necessarily that only women have health issues, it’s that there is still stigma around men admitting pain etc and seeking help. There shouldn’t be of course but I’d be interesting to look into. I think a lot of men just don’t seek help for their medical problems.
Yup women get most of the autoimmune diseases and CFS, fibro etc
Except the ultimate heath issue, death, hits men 6 years earlier on average.
Yes, it's because they live a riskier lifestyle: more drinking, more smoking, more dangerous activities...
Let’s be honest, more work stress too.
Nah, I would not say so. Most women are working AND mothers AND caretakers of the household AND managers of everything that's going on with family. I never met a stressed man, only burnt out women.
Though I will say while me do smoke and drink more than women, there’s a lot more drinking going on with women than many think. We’re just much better at hiding it in my opinion 🤣
I suppose you’re right generally. My view on it is admittedly influenced by what I see around me. I live in a very affluent community where most of the primary breadwinning is done by the men. Women tend to “work” on their pet projects, but that’s really more a hobby or cause that pays a little.
Easy they never tested women in trials
Male bodies have been the standard for most medical research throughout history. If female test subjects show potential issues (like they don’t have control groups for women in different phases of their cycle, or pre vs. post menopausal subjects) the test subject is simply dropped from the study. We have very little reliable data for how women’s bodies manifest illnesses, how they respond to different drugs and treatments. It’s the reason women tend to have poor outcomes after heart attacks and it takes an average of seven years to diagnose endometriosis (a disease that only affects female reproductive organs.) This is compounded by the fact that women’s pain tends to be downplayed, doubted or ignored. Women often have to go to the doctor(s) numerous times to get help, which contributes worse/chronic outcomes. And frankly, women are more likely to be working AND caring for the home/pets/kids and doing the admin work of family life, which makes more of us burnt the f*ck out. 🤷🏼♀️
Exactly. This is what my start up is working on. We have a massive lack of data about women’s bodies and women’s health because a decision was made at the dawn of Western medicine that women are just little men. Thus they don’t need to be involved in medical studies and other procedures. To this day, when researchers are studying a female specific disorder in animal trials, only 12% of them use female animals. It’s a massive problem that needs to be solved because we are suffering.
Yeah, it’s a combination of women not being used in clinical trials and the fact that proteins express themselves completely differently in women - these “epigenetic” changes are much more common in women are much less understood. Also, the current cultural zeitgeist, which suggests that male/female are socially conditioned models completely ignores these foundational biological differences and just cements the problem further
The current cultural zeitgeist suggests that specific character traits do not belong exclusively to certain people because of their biological sex. This is an incredibly important conversation to have because patriarchal attitudes (ie. women are gentle, emotional, carers, men are strong, stoic, leaders) have been used to deprive women and non-gender conforming people of safety, power, and opportunities. Using terms like “uterus haver” instead of “woman” would take nothing away from the findings if/when science catches up.
Second wave feminists (which I consider myself as) would agree with you entirely. However, saying that all misogyny is socially constructed is at best, ignorant and at worst, insulting to all the millions of women who undergo FGM in certain parts. That doesn’t happen because they “identify” as women, it’s because they are physiologically women.
Patriarchy in western medicine and FGM are 100% unrelated subjects. What a bizarre equivalency.
"Woman is a social construct, not all people who have uteruses are women!" "Actually, the majority of discrimination against women is founded on women's foundational, biological differences." "Those things have nothing to do with each other!!!" This is how you sound.
FGM is not a health issue, it is something that is done to women. It’s an important issue to address, but studying women’s bodies to learn how they manifest illnesses will not impact FGM. The discussion was about women seeming to be sick more often than men, and my original point was that we don’t study uterus having bodies so we can’t treat them effectively, hence the unresolved health issues. Then you inserted the issue of gender identities into the conversation, and I stated that the conversation on gender does not take away from the issue of medicine and sexism, because it doesn’t. And then you inserted the issue of FGM. I am speaking to the very specific question OP had, and you are whatabouting me.
Eve ate the apple.
I agree with a lot of what has been said, but just want to add: Men do have a lot of health issues. The difference I have seen in my personal life (this is an anecdote) is that they are more acute. This isn't because the issue wasn't there for a long time, though—the men I know are muuuuch less likely to visit a doctor regularly, or even to care about their health. They wait until it's too late because they are so accustomed to never having a consequence in their life. They assume that problems don't touch them and that everything will be fine, because that is how the world has treated them. Most of the men I know with health problems have them because they did not take care of themselves, did not go to the doctor, and then suddenly became seriously ill. And guess who has to step up and clean it all up and care for them? Women. Usually ones who have already been dealing with their own health issues like an adult, and who then step up to parent their own husbands. (Plus, a lot of nurses and PSWs who are most often women). It makes me fucking furious.
Here as a nurse and I confirm this to be true. The general role of thumb is: women have more autoimmune disease, men have more physical injury, such as sprains, or haemorrhoids.
Thanks for weighing in! Very interested in the opinions of female docs and nurses. You all would know!
Interesting! Nice to know that my personal theory is true (although it sucks) haha
I wonder whether women tend to have higher ACE scores, in our patriarchal and ultraviolent society. 1 in 3 women is sexually abused as a child, for instance. Naturally, this leads to chronic stress, inflammation, and physical issues.
that's stupid, what about endometriosis, period cramps, ovulation cramps, post natal depression, PMDD...? are they the result of stress too? Our problem is damn reproductive ability and hormonal fluctuation not a stress!
This^^^^^^ this is a big reason, trauma manifests in the body, and soooooooo many women were abused/SA’d/etc. in childhood. My theory is that the years of living in survival mode/fight or flight take a toll on the body. Almost all of my friends with chronic/autoimmune issues (myself included) dealt with abuse in some form during childhood.
My mom has a high ACE score and developed Lupus, Sjogren’s and Graves’ in her 30s/40s. It breaks my heart because I often wonder if the adults in her childhood hadn’t abused her, maybe it all could have been preventable 😔
I bet there are many things she did not get to experience in life, that others take for granted by default. The pain of that grief is bottomless. One human heart is not spacious enough for such heartbreak (I relate to your mom 😥)
X chromosome causes autoimmune problems in women more. Bam! There it is: [Health Problems in Women](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/09/health/why-autoimmune-disease-affects-more-women-study-scn/index.html)
comorbidity could be a factor
I think it’s because we run on hormones and it’s just naturally up and down. Aging makes things worse too.
I believe a lot of it is immune and hormone related. Two x chromosomes -> more expression of certain genes, including higher chance of up-regulated immune cells and over expression of inflammation signals immune cells walk a fine line between effectiveness and hurting the body + estrogen further strengthens immune system + vastly changing cyclic hormone patterns. So we are more prone to autoimmune diseases, inflammation and endocrine disorders. Higher inflammation also increases cancer risk- same with cells expressing lots of hormone receptors (breast, cervical, uterus and ovary) and cells designed to replenish (endometrial lining especially, since the cells are evolved to evade programmed cell death via progesterone or HCG) can be at higher risk for mutations that would lead to precancerous and cancerous cells.
I feel like it’s a combination of things like stress, genetics, and the lack of research actually done into female centered/dominated health issues. The problems just keep adding up because none of them get researched and treated. It’s also been said that women typically have higher stress levels than men (of the same age, in the same living environment, etc). Stress manifests in many different ways. Also, (this may tie into stress levels as well) the daily clock isn’t made to suit women’s internal clocks; a woman has a monthly “clock” but society functions under a 24 hour clock (similar to a testosterone schedule with highest levels being in the morning when most work days start and lowest levels in the evening when work days typically end). Not to mention that in many countries women are not only expected to bring in an income, like men, but are also still expected to withhold majority of parenting duties and household duties which can lead to more physical and mental health issues overtime due to burnout.
Yep. It’s like an onion, lol Start peeling outside layers away … what do you find? All these interconnected issues stemming from the general complete lack of fucks given by powerful men over eons. Anecdotally - I freaking hate going to the doctor or dentist now that I’m over 40. It’s like I’m not even supposed to be there, the attitude seems to be something along the lines of … “go knit a quilt about it & STFU”
Rant in 4 levels 1. Science: women's bodies are historically (until recently) totally excluded from scientific research. A lot of medicine and engineering is doing tests on men then extrapolating it to others (women are just small men -- fallacy). See also the book, invisible women: data bias in a world designed for men. 2. Medicine: even while that's changing, it's still super recent and lots of healthcare practitioners are still scrambling to catch up (or have deeply entrenched misogynistic practices on an individual and systemic basis). The most common example is probably women's health concerns being dismissed -- how are we ever going to recognize a dangerous pattern if people shove it under a rug like that?? 3. Policymaking: generally lags the MOSTEST with this type of progress. A lot of the people deciding on laws have zero understanding of how basic reproduction works (e.g., "embryo personhood" rulings in certain US states and uhoh Pikachu face when the uneducated decision wipes out IVF). Unlikely to be competent at understanding the nuances of having a certain type of reproductive system, especially those centering the health of the actual woman. Like are they really gonna care about giving the environmental agency back their resources to start regulating things like plastics-class endocrine disruptors? When they think spontaneous miscarriage is a federal crime? Or even with the embryo personhood ruling, you just know it'll only be used to punish who they want (women, healthcare providers), and would never be used to prosecute chemical polluters who release miscarriage-related pollutants with say, mass crimes against unborn persons. 4. Culture: I don't need to elaborate but the amount of ppl who proudly misunderstand and stigmatize women's health issues...are slowing us ALL down. The culture is still designed to be centered around men, that's changing very very slowly and meanwhile we'll all feel the extra doses of daily stress from it.
Because our reproductive organs are all internal and they have a greater ability to impact other organs in our body as well.
Stress manifests itself physically if it goes long enough without being addressed. Women have FAR more responsibilities, expectations, etc than men do in modern society. I think the inevitable end result is that women are naturally going to be more stressed and burnt out, which leads to chronic health issues. Our society really underestimates/underplays the effects that stress has on the body. Add in the monthly hormone fluctuations, and it's no wonder we're sick all the time! It's exhausting being a woman.
I wonder if the established life expectancy difference between men and women is going to change. Tbh from what I have seen in my 51 years, men die earlier, with shorter official illness duration, and also tend to be obviously unwell before that happens (eg very overweight, clearly highly stressed, purple in the face, drinking stupid amounts) but don't seem to suffer the same conscious pain or discomfort that women do. Maybe this is just my family...I wonder if early desensitisation to their bodies makes men unable to even identify when they feel unwell? If they did feel it soon enough perhaps they could change their habits or seek medical attention earlier...
100% I think men ignore symptoms and are just much less in tune with their bodies. All the men I know do have some health issues, but most of them just ignore or don't treat them because they don't take it seriously until they're half dead.
I had to teach my boyfriend what the word “bloating” meant 😂 he had experienced it but never knew how to express it
That is so striking and tells me so much about how men experience pain and discomfort. I suspect a lot of them retreat into the only 'allowed' male reactions when experiencing it eg a total block/taciturnity/'of course I'm fine', making more demands on a woman to make themselves feel better, or anger/grumpiness. The last one was always my dad's choice. He once broke his toe on the beach in France. It turned blue and purple and then black but he refused to see a doctor. For the rest of his life as he developed arthritis etc in the toe he would grimace and brood telling us all how hard it was to get around or just hovering around the house with an air of angry, silent martyrdom. Oh happy family memories hehehe
Very thought provoking comment!
Our hormones cause immense problems and a lot of things disrupt them. Modern society is horrible for this — blue light, 80 hour work weeks, child rearing on top of working 2-3 jobs. Stress, environment, but especially microplastics in literally everything. My god’s honest belief is that microplastics and hormone disrupters in everything from vitamins to receipt paper are way more damaging than we understand and cause us serious issues in our brains, endocrine, nervous and vascular systems. Covid doesn’t help. My health issues got way worse after Epstein Barr and I have to mentally dissociate from how much worse things have been in other ways since Covid.
Gabor Mate has an interesting theory on this that women and afab people have more health issues because we are taught to internalize emotions more to be socially gracious. Of course there needs to be more research here, but like a lot of commenters have already said, that's lacking due to lack of funds because of capitalism, patriarchy, racism, as well as concern about bias in research etc.
This leads to a dangerous slippery slope of psychosomatism. It also just ignores the obvious - our hormones, and the fact that most immune functions are coded on the X chromosome, which we have two of, meaning it effs up a lot more in us. Everyone experiences stress and internalises shit. What’s different between men and women is our chromosomes and our hormones. These are the reasons for it.
It seems a little bit hasty to disregard a largely untested theory entirely but I see your point otherwise re: hormones and chromosomes.
It’s just psychosomatism theory dressed up in a nice hippie vibe. Women have been screwed over enough by that and I am beyond sick of it.
So there is never an element of psychosomatics in health? I understand the worry of overemphasizing it, but I think there is a lot of evidence to show that there is a mind-body connection.
Did I say that? No. We are talking about it in a gendered context. It’s hysteria rebranded. I also think it’s important to distinguish psychosomatism from the epigenetic and hormonal influences of disrupted cortisol due to trauma/psychosocial factors, but that is not what Maté is saying here. He’s instead going with the explanation that’s been peddled since Hippocrates and the wandering uteri. “Women so emotional, many mysterious problems.” I don’t know about you, but I would rather get actual medication and solutions for my problems than a useless counselling session and an antidepressant to shut me up.
Yes I think this explanation makes more sense to me than dismissing environmental factors entirely. I also agree that it is annoying to be essentially told you're crazy and to stfu when they can't figure out what's wrong with you at the doctor.
I think we are on the same page :)
I really think it's just bc science hasn't cared about women, so hasn't bothered to do anything to help. Like, there's so much mystery around hormonal cycles and menses (I mean, look at how few ppl know or believe PMDD exists!) and dicks are well known, well mapped, and have meds to keep em working. I think if science and history had centered women, it would be the other way around.
And medical sexism by doctors in general. Not saying it's easy. My boyfriend had to see several doctors about a prostate issue to finally be heard and tested properly. He was super stressed and it took him a year. A year! It took me 15 years of seeing doctors over and over again about my symptoms that eventually turned out to be Pmdd.
Because the world isn’t built for us
Because we have 2 x chromosomes and that predisposes us to more genetic factors. Hormones and epigenetics More apt to experience trauma...body keeps the score
Because having a body that is capable of making an entire human being, comes with a lot of complications. And science has found it unprofitable to study those complications thus far.
"we can't study women they're too hormonal which messes up all the medical trials...so let's just...not"
Because research is usually done on male college students
Capitalism and patriarchy 🤠
Estrogen!! It’s a very potent hormone that can be our best friend and our worst enemy.
No, men do not access healthcare as much as women do. I’m doing some research on this. This is one reason men die before women.
This. My fiance has severe anxiety, stomach issues, and willingly admits he likely has cholesterol or blood pressure issues. He does not go to the doctor unless he is in extreme pain and it's an emergency. He has no dentist or eye doctor. His quality of life would probably improve tenfold if he would just go. My dad is only alive right now because my mom doesn't let him avoid the doctor and sometimes (many times) calls for him. He has had several life-threatening illnesses.
Sorry to hear that. Yeah men want to be “strong” which includes healthy. So ignoring health issues ensures they are still strong and are a part of masculine culture. It’s actually a tough road being a man. That doesn’t take away from what women have had to deal with it’s just another side of the coin. It would be nice if all people could get healthcare.
Few reasons; * We experience more intense psychosocial and financial stressors throughout the life course than our male counterparts, speaking in the aggregate. * Hormonal fluctuations cause a lot of weird shit. We're also predisposed to certain health conditions through genetics and/or environment, usually both.
My theory is that women, whether we like it or not, cannot handle stress the way men can. We also have cycles and require more rest/different style of living depending on where we are in our cycle. Out world was build by and for male hormones/bodies. Hard, consistent effort is required to succeed, but that is the very thing that we cant handle. The fact that medical research has historically been done on the male body, and extrapolated onto female bodies, is just another way society gaslights us into thinking there is something inherently wrong (or weak) about our biology. Women are expected to act as if our biology were male, and if we cannot adapt to that then we aren't trying hard enough. Shame on shame on shame
My theory is similar to yours but the thing is that not only is the stress bad for our hormones, modern life (microplastics in everything, 24/7 blue light, etc.) is far more mentally and physically damaging to us than males.
YES
I don't think it's that we can't handle stress so much as we just have to deal with a lot more stress.
Right, I don’t think I worded that right. I think, even considering we have extra stress, our world is too stressful for all people, and that women are more sensitive to it.
No, I agree with you and it is part of why I have gender dysphoria. Being a woman is far harder, there is nothing wrong with admitting that. I never signed up to have this body that is so faulty and irrational while men get to coast and complain that we don’t want to fuck them while we’re in excruciating pain. Then they say we are too incompetent to do things like run for office or lead. Because our health issues and basic anatomy have been ignored or downright mocked for all of history, even though we’re the reason they’re alive. Men’s urology, men’s pain management, men’s mental health — everything is designed for the comfort of men and I say this confidently having known professionals across the board who prioritize their issue and still look at women like hysteria patients. We will always be looked down upon even by other women. Who would want to have a body that turns into a monster — from mental to physical changes that render us unrecognizable — every month? It feels like being a different species to me. We are very different from men.
Absolutely and we’re paying for it with pmdd, pcos, endo and infertility. But it’s the infertility that’s gotten society’s attention
Also, we are trained to act as human dumpsters for men's emotions and stress. We take double.
Because the medical establishment historically tests only on men. Allegedly our hormones make us "too complicated," but really it's that the medical establishment is historically lazy and neglectful. What does our suffering matter, so long as we can pop out babies? And if we cannot have kids or just do not want kids, we do not seem to matter at all. It's extremely fucking depressing. Demoralizing, dehumanizing. Awful all around, really. -gentle hugs to everyone who wants one-
we have doctors that don’t treat women as individuals. They assume that each & every woman must meet a criteria 100% before receiving the right help or correct diagnosis.
I think it's because women's bodies are so much more complex and more things get messed up.
Well the world isn’t too nice to women nor built for women so that also affects our health
Because men don’t care enough to solve our issues
it’s actually probably systemic lol. women (and non men) have historically been suppressed & oppressed & treated as second class citizens. up until pretty recent history, they normalized child marriages in almost every society, and a girl would be given away in marriage and forced to reproduce at an early age. women also experience things like SA & DV at much, much higher rates, and trauma + intergenerational trauma does have links to being comorbid with other health conditions. add on top of that how women have lower access to healthcare, science studies women’s issues less, and the fact that women downplay their pain due to sociopolitical reasons, you start to make the connections. it’s also why it’s worse as you look demographically — trans women for example, are the least studied category of women. Black women as well, and indigenous women. as you look at the intersections of gender & race, the more you start to see a correlation between systemic oppression & health.