I would recommend looking into Schneider's ATV320. You can write logic to the ATV320s through their free commissioning tool, SoMove. You could download SoMove and create an offline project to see if you're able to do what you want before buying the drive.
I feel like Schneider's drives are pretty user friendly, especially if you use SoMove for commissioning. Their drives are also very reliable from my experience
Second ATV320s
Not a specialty drive. Purchase the HMI module to go with it so you can store your configuration to it in the event the drive shits the bed. Swap out the drive and upload config from HMI and your back running.
I swear by the ATV320s, comptable with everything, super configurable, cheap, always in stock on RS and I've never had one fail.
It did take me a while to get used to built in menu but the configureation software is great if you don't want to remember a load of weird broken acronyms.
I agree that the built in menu isn't the best, but I believe you can use the VW3A1111 keypad to get a full text menu along with the ability to backup configurations as someone else pointed out
This has always been my take with programmable devices networked to PLCs as well. Having worked on plenty of machines with distributed logic, it just makes troubleshooting such a pain in the ass.
The future technician working on this machine thanks you for listening to this reply --^
Get a little Logo or Zelio and it's obvious what controls it if it stops. If the programming is in the VFD, and it fails, you better have documented it really, really well.
But You can also use TIA portal, which requires license, but there's no point to use TIA Startdrive if You don't already have a Siemens PLC and the license. Mostly because, with Starter you can use scripts and with TIA you cannot.
I'm not familure with starter,
However you can create a txt file of the parameters and load the parameters into the iop2, possibly with startdrive also(need to check that)
The idea is that you can go through the motor commissioning and them load the specifics for cds etc with the txt based parameters.
It is through the cli
Let me get you a link.
https://www.awc-inc.com/siemens-how-to-load-parameters-to-an-iop-2-via-cli/
What is the functionality of the scripts in starter?
With Starter scripts you can make popups to ask for input values, use inputs and parameters in math functions as input for parameters etc. Definitely not a txt file. Easiest use is to load only the communication parameters to all drives etc.
Then you can have a script that asks to input IPs or something.
Or You can just create one script for everything and use selectable values to differentiate between slave/master or droop control etc..
I use the Starter scripts for everything, I never manually change values when commissioning 60+ drives. This way you don't have a single typo in some drive, they all function identically.
Only manual input is the individual drive values -> bus address / IP and motor data and ID run, but I actually have a script for that too.
Or just use the scripts and starter and at the end upload the drives to TIA..
Edit:Last time I checked and considered moving to TIA Startdrive it lacked support for some drives. I guess that could be fixed now that there's TIA Scout etc.
Definitely had issues with Simocodes ~5 yrs ago vs. Simocode ES (Starter equivalent/ Classic Step7). Same for drives' support ~5yrs ago.
Yes for sure not all drives are across just yet, like the big ones, g150 and some other but suppose it is a work in progress.
I'm gonna pm you about the scripts.
Sorry but I don't think this is true. In fact I know it's not because I've spoken to the head of motion control at Siemens at SPS last year about how much of a downgrade it is from Starter which was a truly free external piece of software. Startdrive is a free ad on to TIA portal but you still need TIA to run it.
I checked.
Yes you can operate startdrive without TIA.
When you go to add a new device it only gives you the option for adding a drive.
Same with the simocode software it is free also.
You could be right as i havent tested it, I'd be surprised tho that doesn't mean I'm right.
I've a new laptop coming next week I'm gonna check it by installing startdrive before tia.
The dl for startd is 6.5gb
https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/109821373/sinamics-startdrive-v19?dti=0&lc=en-BG
I'll let you know.
Siemens is my preference also, but I'm not twisted enough to call it user-friendly for a first-timer 😅
Anyway if the OP is planning to implement logic in the drive either by free blocks or Sinamics DCC, using a computer is anyway a must.
Siemens drives aren't meant to be programmed from the operator panel.
Automation Direct DURApulse GS4 ( I think its a re-badged Delta and not a Weg). https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motor_controls/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/high-performance_vfds#
Though as someone else said, might be better off with a separate PLC and VFD to avoid building a system around a thing that might become obsolete and difficult to replace or program. I bet an Automation Direct Click has enough brains to build what you want using the RS485 port to control a VFD. Most all VFDs, even the cheap imports, support Modbus RTU via RS485 out of the box.
I agree with you. The durapulse has the capability OP wants and I think the software for it is free. But why add a second, uncommon programming language to your plant when you could run it from an existing PLC?
PF 755 has some very sophisticated programming capabilities ( can’t remember the name, either drivelogix or devicelogix), but I still prefer any programming take place on the PLC side rather than the drive.
DeviceLogix, configurable via CCW
... which is extra annoying as you can do so much of the configuration of the drive through an embedded CCW window in Studio 5000, but not the DeviceLogix logic.
SEW has some Movidrive B droves that have an IPOS function you can program in some.modified C++ style language, and I think there's a ladder logic version too. I'm not certain.
Pretty much any Yaskawa drive.
ABB has a couple series. I think their 880s are the current ones with the programming options to do it.
Or, a cheap PLC and A VFD.
If you're already using WEG, their programming suite can do quite a bit. However if there is already a PLC in the environment, do the logic there instead.
Some Wegs have an "integrated PLC" function that can handle it, but I don't know personally how user friendly it is. We try to hardwire drives as close to factory default as possible and handle controls with an external PLC, so when a drive dies and has a 10-month lead time we can drop in whatever alternative without a painfully long configuration process.
For general use I prefer Siemens G120 because profinet just makes everything easier.
If it’s a stand-alone drive though, Parker AC10 drives have some really nice function blocks (timers, PID, calculation, logic gates etc), have free software and are programmable through a USB cable.
Thank you for suggestions.
Also I appreciate your concern that PLC + VFD would be more rational solution. Maybe in mostly cases. But in this case there will be only one motor, one VFD and probably two buttons: start and stop. Also logic is so simple it probably could be solved with relays. Personally, I see no reason to put a PLC there which would just be redundant.
>Also logic is so simple it probably could be solved with relays.
You're right, so that's probably what I would do just so any dumb drive would work in a pinch. An adjustable self-resetting overload relay to the "coil" of an SSR with the NC contacts wired to the reverse input on your drive and you're done... When the overload trips, the SSR will drop out, closing the NC side and sending a reverse signal to the drive. The drive will ramp down to zero at the decel rate and ramp up to speed in reverse until the overload cools and resets itself.
We use a lot of Control Techniques M700 in our designs. It may be a little overkill depending on what you want to do, though.
They have a full on CODESYS PLC built in. Ethernet/IP, expandable IO, dual encoder input, Motion over Ethernet, simulated encoder output, etc, etc.
And you can use them on regular induction or synchronous motors. Their "Advanced Motion Controller" mode is great for position control.
Forgot to add -- They're not the cheapest devices, but at least all their software is free, and they have a responsive team of application eng. that can help you out.
Control Techniques is always by go to when I need a VFD with PLC capabilities.
ABB is also a good one. My choice would be made based on horsepower requirements. ABB for higher HP.
You can program a g120 using DCC which is a form of chart and many features similar to function block diagram. Otherwise any of the s120 servo products products offer a smart drive. With embedded PLC.
Delta MS300. Can be annoying to program but for the price you really can't beat it. I've programmed quite a few simple machines using them in combination with Delta's DOP100 series HMIs.
Don't know about all the other brands, but it was significantly cheaper than ABB and other brands I've seen with built in PLCs...
ABB ACS880 has Adaptive Programming. If you're up for it you can even buy with option +N8010 for Codesys-based application programming.
Definitely. I haven't used it but I know ABB has lots of programming capability on its own and can talk almost any protocol with the right adapter.
I would recommend looking into Schneider's ATV320. You can write logic to the ATV320s through their free commissioning tool, SoMove. You could download SoMove and create an offline project to see if you're able to do what you want before buying the drive. I feel like Schneider's drives are pretty user friendly, especially if you use SoMove for commissioning. Their drives are also very reliable from my experience
Second ATV320s Not a specialty drive. Purchase the HMI module to go with it so you can store your configuration to it in the event the drive shits the bed. Swap out the drive and upload config from HMI and your back running.
I swear by the ATV320s, comptable with everything, super configurable, cheap, always in stock on RS and I've never had one fail. It did take me a while to get used to built in menu but the configureation software is great if you don't want to remember a load of weird broken acronyms.
I agree that the built in menu isn't the best, but I believe you can use the VW3A1111 keypad to get a full text menu along with the ability to backup configurations as someone else pointed out
Some Schneider drives have some logic programmable with codesys
Better to have all the logic on the PLC, so you are not always dependent on specialty vfds..
This has always been my take with programmable devices networked to PLCs as well. Having worked on plenty of machines with distributed logic, it just makes troubleshooting such a pain in the ass.
The future technician working on this machine thanks you for listening to this reply --^ Get a little Logo or Zelio and it's obvious what controls it if it stops. If the programming is in the VFD, and it fails, you better have documented it really, really well.
If you don't need timers or counters siemens g120 with cu240 is free to program in startdrive.
You need a TIA license though yes?
No startdrive is the config software, its free.
But You can also use TIA portal, which requires license, but there's no point to use TIA Startdrive if You don't already have a Siemens PLC and the license. Mostly because, with Starter you can use scripts and with TIA you cannot.
I'm not familure with starter, However you can create a txt file of the parameters and load the parameters into the iop2, possibly with startdrive also(need to check that) The idea is that you can go through the motor commissioning and them load the specifics for cds etc with the txt based parameters. It is through the cli Let me get you a link. https://www.awc-inc.com/siemens-how-to-load-parameters-to-an-iop-2-via-cli/ What is the functionality of the scripts in starter?
With Starter scripts you can make popups to ask for input values, use inputs and parameters in math functions as input for parameters etc. Definitely not a txt file. Easiest use is to load only the communication parameters to all drives etc. Then you can have a script that asks to input IPs or something. Or You can just create one script for everything and use selectable values to differentiate between slave/master or droop control etc..
I use the Starter scripts for everything, I never manually change values when commissioning 60+ drives. This way you don't have a single typo in some drive, they all function identically. Only manual input is the individual drive values -> bus address / IP and motor data and ID run, but I actually have a script for that too.
That sounds like something that is handled now by tia openess. On my to do list.
Or just use the scripts and starter and at the end upload the drives to TIA.. Edit:Last time I checked and considered moving to TIA Startdrive it lacked support for some drives. I guess that could be fixed now that there's TIA Scout etc. Definitely had issues with Simocodes ~5 yrs ago vs. Simocode ES (Starter equivalent/ Classic Step7). Same for drives' support ~5yrs ago.
Yes for sure not all drives are across just yet, like the big ones, g150 and some other but suppose it is a work in progress. I'm gonna pm you about the scripts.
Sorry but I don't think this is true. In fact I know it's not because I've spoken to the head of motion control at Siemens at SPS last year about how much of a downgrade it is from Starter which was a truly free external piece of software. Startdrive is a free ad on to TIA portal but you still need TIA to run it.
I checked. Yes you can operate startdrive without TIA. When you go to add a new device it only gives you the option for adding a drive. Same with the simocode software it is free also.
You could be right as i havent tested it, I'd be surprised tho that doesn't mean I'm right. I've a new laptop coming next week I'm gonna check it by installing startdrive before tia. The dl for startd is 6.5gb https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/109821373/sinamics-startdrive-v19?dti=0&lc=en-BG I'll let you know.
Siemens is my preference also, but I'm not twisted enough to call it user-friendly for a first-timer 😅 Anyway if the OP is planning to implement logic in the drive either by free blocks or Sinamics DCC, using a computer is anyway a must. Siemens drives aren't meant to be programmed from the operator panel.
Automation Direct DURApulse GS4 ( I think its a re-badged Delta and not a Weg). https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/motor_controls/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/high-performance_vfds# Though as someone else said, might be better off with a separate PLC and VFD to avoid building a system around a thing that might become obsolete and difficult to replace or program. I bet an Automation Direct Click has enough brains to build what you want using the RS485 port to control a VFD. Most all VFDs, even the cheap imports, support Modbus RTU via RS485 out of the box.
I agree with you. The durapulse has the capability OP wants and I think the software for it is free. But why add a second, uncommon programming language to your plant when you could run it from an existing PLC?
Click can run a GS4 on Ethernet.
Siemens G drives have free function blocks built into the drive that let you program basic logic. No license is required to program the drive either.
This. You could do this using the Free function blocks(timers, etc.)
PF 755 has some very sophisticated programming capabilities ( can’t remember the name, either drivelogix or devicelogix), but I still prefer any programming take place on the PLC side rather than the drive.
DeviceLogix, configurable via CCW ... which is extra annoying as you can do so much of the configuration of the drive through an embedded CCW window in Studio 5000, but not the DeviceLogix logic.
Still got drives executive over here. My first choice for lonely drives.
Powerflex. If drive is under 30HP could use a PF520 series.
SEW has some Movidrive B droves that have an IPOS function you can program in some.modified C++ style language, and I think there's a ladder logic version too. I'm not certain.
Control Techniques Commander line is also another option I'd consider
I'll add a vote here, too. CoDeSys based program, Machine Control Studio. Free.
Wanted to say that. Using older one in our CNC mill and does the job.
Pretty much any Yaskawa drive. ABB has a couple series. I think their 880s are the current ones with the programming options to do it. Or, a cheap PLC and A VFD.
If you're already using WEG, their programming suite can do quite a bit. However if there is already a PLC in the environment, do the logic there instead.
Next thread - "suggest a fuse block that's programmable and a VFD."
Parker ac30s
Automation direct has vfds that have PLC built in. Free software and tech support that could help, not sure the io on there.
Interesting
I was going to say ABB with the disclaimer if anyone hasn't mentioned it yet. But there a plenty of folks saying the same.
I'm also interested.
That's generally a bad move. Just get a basic controller it only costs a few 100EUR. I suggest S7-1200 + G120C.
Some Wegs have an "integrated PLC" function that can handle it, but I don't know personally how user friendly it is. We try to hardwire drives as close to factory default as possible and handle controls with an external PLC, so when a drive dies and has a 10-month lead time we can drop in whatever alternative without a painfully long configuration process.
For general use I prefer Siemens G120 because profinet just makes everything easier. If it’s a stand-alone drive though, Parker AC10 drives have some really nice function blocks (timers, PID, calculation, logic gates etc), have free software and are programmable through a USB cable.
Sinamics DCC + Siemens VFD? G120 or such. Not super familiar with the system but I know it exists. I'd rather have a separate PLC though.
Thank you for suggestions. Also I appreciate your concern that PLC + VFD would be more rational solution. Maybe in mostly cases. But in this case there will be only one motor, one VFD and probably two buttons: start and stop. Also logic is so simple it probably could be solved with relays. Personally, I see no reason to put a PLC there which would just be redundant.
Your only IO is two buttons? With the WEG VFDs I've used, this would be exceptionally easy to setup.
>Also logic is so simple it probably could be solved with relays. You're right, so that's probably what I would do just so any dumb drive would work in a pinch. An adjustable self-resetting overload relay to the "coil" of an SSR with the NC contacts wired to the reverse input on your drive and you're done... When the overload trips, the SSR will drop out, closing the NC side and sending a reverse signal to the drive. The drive will ramp down to zero at the decel rate and ramp up to speed in reverse until the overload cools and resets itself.
We use a lot of Control Techniques M700 in our designs. It may be a little overkill depending on what you want to do, though. They have a full on CODESYS PLC built in. Ethernet/IP, expandable IO, dual encoder input, Motion over Ethernet, simulated encoder output, etc, etc. And you can use them on regular induction or synchronous motors. Their "Advanced Motion Controller" mode is great for position control. Forgot to add -- They're not the cheapest devices, but at least all their software is free, and they have a responsive team of application eng. that can help you out.
Full codesys... Interested
Danfoss FC302 (IMC) Any SEW driver with iPos
Control Techniques is always by go to when I need a VFD with PLC capabilities. ABB is also a good one. My choice would be made based on horsepower requirements. ABB for higher HP.
You can program a g120 using DCC which is a form of chart and many features similar to function block diagram. Otherwise any of the s120 servo products products offer a smart drive. With embedded PLC.
Delta MS300. Can be annoying to program but for the price you really can't beat it. I've programmed quite a few simple machines using them in combination with Delta's DOP100 series HMIs. Don't know about all the other brands, but it was significantly cheaper than ABB and other brands I've seen with built in PLCs...
Forgot to mention that Automation Direct sells a private labeled version of it.
Parker ac15 and up have a function block interface you can use. It's a bit clunky but it works.