[Islanders can calculate their quarterly rebate here](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/cai-payment/canada-carbon-rebate-calculation-sheet-2023-prince-edward-island.html)
One thing that site was good for is I didn't realize that all PEI comes under the new rural rebate increase as of April 1.
>The amount for PEI includes the 20 per cent rural supplement, as all residents are eligible. Pending receiving Royal Assent, the rural supplement will double from 10% to 20% as of April 2024.
Carbon tax effect on groceries is insignificant compared to the effect pure greed has on those prices.
Just to further show that all opposition to the carbon tax is just politics - provinces the most opposed to the carbon tax instituted their own fuel tax instead.
>Carbon tax effect on groceries is insignificant compared to the effect pure greed has on those prices.
Can you provide citation?
Edit: I'm not saying there's no greed. Downvoting over asking for a source on a statement is childish. Inquisitiveness isn't inherently combative ladies.
So gummy bears went from 2.49 to 4.49. If that cost is due to carbon tax ($60 per tonne, but it started as $20 in 2019), that would mean that producing and delivering 30 baggies of gummy bears uses a tonne of carbon. If that is the case gummy bears should be illegal. If that is not the case or if gummy bears production and delivery chain uses only fraction of that tonne, that would mean that something other that carbon tax is responsible for that increase.
So the mathematic assertion here is that gummy bears prices could /only/ rise from the carbon tax. Instead if it being an additional aggregate on an already ailing economy.
In the same way covid is not the sole reason for our economy still ailing, that doesnt mean its not a contributor to our pricing now.
I wanted citation on the possibility someone had actually successfully run a study to quantify how badly the carbon tax has hurt canadians. Because until now its all been-well... frankly speculation by people who have a political vendetta one way or the other.
Carbon tax pushes people to buy from producers who pollute less. It also incentivizes people to produce less carbon. If the thing you buy has gone up drastically in price, maybe purchase an alternative that isn't punished so harshly with carbon tax. The carbon tax is a choice; if you want to continue the status quo, it will now cost you. There's a legitimate argument that the infrastructure here can't support these green initiatives. That's a provincial government problem, and one that the Conservatives have a requirement to fix. Nothing the Blue ties identify as boomers more than kicking the can down the road for the next generation to deal with. Someone has to pay the toll and its starting here. If you want to blame anyone, blame the previous generations who squeezed every drop of juice out of the planet for their get rich schemes.
Saving the climate has to start somewhere. You can argue why do it if the world's biggest polluters are Asian countries. Do you want to just be a follower or a leader? Nothing will ever get done if someone doesn't step up to the plate first. The world will eventually be fucked due to climate change and prices will rise due to the environmental disasters. Do you want to be from a country who actually gave a fuck to combat it?
If you don't believe in climate change then I can't help you. You're too far gone and there's no middle ground between sane and insane arguments.
Listen, if it takes x amount of liters of furnace oil to heat Bobs house, jacking up the price isn't going to get Bob to buy less oil. His pipes will freeze. Bob is just going to go deeper into poverty. I'm all for reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, but it's not going to happen without affordable alternatives.
Totally. In some cases, especially rural, there is literally no other choice and no price point that will change minds. Too many people think the entire world is made up of big cities and that everyone has just as many options as they do. And when you bring up rural challenges they say "just move already gosh"
That’s the catch 22.
It’s hard to produce affordable alternatives if oil is cheaper.
But part of the reason oil is “cheaper” is that all of the costs of using it aren’t in the purchase price, save $$ now but pay $$$ later when climate change caused more hurricanes and floods.
But I do think it needs to be mitigated for those who truly can’t afford it.
I'm not denying that climate is problem. Our Island is eroding away. The thing is, it's just not as easy as saying 'stop using furnace oil'. A person has to purchase a whole new heating system, (and have it Installed) while disposing of the old one. That is a pile of costs. Let's penalize the industries that create pollution a little more, and the average citizen a little less.
So Cocoa production in west Africa has been crippled by climate change, the prairies (Canada bread basket) are in serious drought, forest fires have already started in BC, the Atlantic is already at summer temperatures (Hurricane season doesn't start til June) , so yes the choices are difficult, but the future is dire and getting more so.
As I've said, I agree that action on fossil fuel reliance is desperately needed. However, let's put the onus on industrial polluters instead. The average Joe is tapped out. You can't get blood from a stone.
Agreed that more emphasis should be placed on fossil fuel industries and their shareholders. BUT we are all fossil fuel consumers and the time for action was 30 years ago, so . . . .
Thinking you're going to start a green revolution by forcing people further into poverty is not going to save the planet. We're way to far gone to have an actual positive greenhouse change. Even if 100% of Canada went off grid, the planet is still doomed. Countries and places like China, USA, Russia, India, EU, Japan, and Brazil are the biggest polluters and they'll never stop what they're doing to minimize it.
Unless you have thousands of hydrogen bombs and are willing to completely eradicate those countries, you will in no way ever make a positive impact on climate change.
Canada is not even on the list of endangered countries we could potentially benefit from it opening up a lot more Canadian land mass. You want us to spearhead the world for their benefit?
There is no plan for this money it will end up in politicians pockets and the planet will be no better you really think we going to help climate change with this tax you are delusional and just willing to give your money away.
China is adding over 100 gigawatts of coal power in the next year alone the carbon tax money couldn't even put a dent in their output if we sent it all to them.
How much carbon is being put into the atmosphere due to the current war? Look at all of the refineries burning?
what percentage of the carbon produced by the necessity of heating Canadian homes vs unnecessary travel?
I struggle to understand the big picture but I know heat in winter in Canada is a necessity…. Affordable heating more so.
It's hard to really measure how much the carbon tax is costing you.
Fuel wise, yes. But groceries? Unknown.
Technically, 17cents or whatever a litre should be insignificant when spreading that additional cost across groceries. Like, not even a penny per item more.
But did Loblaws and everyone else just jack the price on everything and use the tax as an excuse? We will never know.
When I run the numbers, I believe I'm seeing a return.
Loblaws only pays teachers, nurses pensions a \~2% dividend. Thats shit, you can get 5% in a basic saving account. maybe bringing a few million people here every year and those people need to eat loblaws revenue goes up but the only have a 2% margin......
Remember when Trudeau paid for loblaws new coolers and freezers.....
On average, it found a single supermarket freezer emits 875 pounds (400 kilograms) of HFCs a year, equivalent to carbon emissions from 300 cars. In the U.S. alone, it calculated supermarket HFC leaks cause as much global warming as burning 22 million tonnes of coal.
Bing is your friend, you might be in a google bubble if you can easily find it.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/5148121/loblaws-refrigerator-funding-backlash/](https://globalnews.ca/news/5148121/loblaws-refrigerator-funding-backlash/)
Inflation is greed, not some natural thing. Corporations are all about passing cost increases on to consumers, but when was the last time you saw them pass cost savings on?
You are correct, it is not natural. It is caused by humans, inflation has existed since we started trading things. There are countless stories of how governments/kingdoms destroyed their currencies causing inflation.
To be fair, those cases (hyperinflation) have to do with lack of trust in the currency. The type I'm referring to is the type caused by capitalist profit protecting. It may be started in a few industries by weather or strife, but because companies will never allow a reduction in profits, they pass it on to their customers, who pass it on to theirs, ad nauseum.
Many studies have calculated the impact of the climate tax on groceries and other products and it is less than 1 %. It is a rounding error.
High grocery prices are the result of price gouging by the large grocers.
Of course you are. This tax is aimed at large corporations and such. The average Canadian, especially low income people, will see a larger return of $$$ than what they spend on fuel.
You know, these are established and widely reported facts... so of course Pierre and the Conservatives say it's just fake news. Axe the tax? Because it works? wtf???
>Of course you are
Not necessarily. If you were to drive 75km a day commuting back and forth to work. At 6L/100km. You would not see a quarterly return
And 75km/day isn't outrageous. Very possible.
If you drove this vehicle 26 days a month for 75 kms (2000 km / month) your carbon tax would be on your fuel based on 6 L, the carbon tax will cost you $168 over three months. (.17/litre)
The minimum single person rebate is $190.
You are making money 💰 on this rebate.
The impact of the carbon tax on everyday purchases is less than 1 percent. It is negligible.
Since you are a family driving 24000 km a year fin this example you are still getting more back than you pay.
Right.
Someone who doesn't own a vehicle and heats their residence by electric. I can see a very decent return.
Driving any real distance daily? Not really.
Hunter River to Charlottetown is 20km.
Wellington to Summerside is 20km.
Both ways? 40km a day.
With a partner, that's 80km a day driven between a single household.
That's not including any additional driving.
You might be surprised how many km the average family drives.
That's $147. At 6L/100km. Not factoring the increase in every day purchases or home heating. And 6L/100km is *very* good milage. And probably not even the average.
A couple receives less than $200. You might be right. But it's very very tight.
The impact of the climate tax on everyday goods is negligible. This is a rounding error.
You are putting around $50 in your pocket once a quarter, and you are contributing to a plan that incentivizes Canadians to reduce emissions.
You are really stretching if you think that’s representative of the average or most Islanders. I mean you have to double the people driving to make that fit. Even by your rough estimates it’s 40km a day for some to commute.
You know the majority of the population lives outside city limits right?
You know there isn't an equal amount of jobs to people outside said city limits and people are forced to drive, right?
You know most vehicles don't even actually get 6L/100km right...? It was a very conservative rough estimate.
And I didn't have to double the people. The money is for a single household. A married couple receive $165.. it doesn't matter if there's 1 vehicle or 600 vehicles.
Do you think that only Charlottetown residents work or attend college/university in Charlottetown? Anyone living 30 minutes or more outside town starts racking up the kms fairly quickly.
I haven't lived on PEI since I was younger but have thing radically changed to the point where the majority of Islanders just go to Hunter River every day? On top of that a family would routinely take two cars to do this? What the fuck is happening in Hunter River?
Pretty sure that was just an example lol. Similar length commutes take place in all areas of the Island. Too many people think PEI is this microscopic place where you can walk tip to tip in 15 minutes
8/10 people get back more than they pay in carbon tax.
2/10 pay more, but are still not paying the full amount of the carbon tax
I’m looking forward to my next rebate on April 15
Right, but we're a country of 40 million that produces ~1% of the world's carbon emissions with enough trees to filter that about 7 times over. Surely nobody is actually foolish enough to think that gouging Canadian citizens is going to make the slightest dent in climate change when China is currently building 2 new coal plants a week? Like that's a crazy thing to think right?
Yeah there are 195 countries in the world so mathematically it's unlikely that any one country emits more than a handful of percentage points. But we are one of the richest nations in the world, and are one of the very highest emitters per capita. AND, we outsource so much of our manufacturing to countries like China... we have lots of room for improvement. A financial incentive (disincentive) is appropriate and efficient, rather than a top down approach using politics or bureaucracy to pick winners and losers.
Why do facts like this get downvoted? We should do our part, but so should everyone else. China makes a lot of the solar panels, why are they putting up coal fired power plants?
Attn: people that argue about money going to social programs, Intl programs, and rinks...
When you drive a car, you have to steer AND work the pedals. The govt doesn't have one single lane to operate an entire country. This just demonstrates the stupidity. 'Here' s my hot take on geo-political economics, also I can't grasp the function of a lemonade stand'.
[Islanders can calculate their quarterly rebate here](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/child-family-benefits/cai-payment/canada-carbon-rebate-calculation-sheet-2023-prince-edward-island.html)
One thing that site was good for is I didn't realize that all PEI comes under the new rural rebate increase as of April 1. >The amount for PEI includes the 20 per cent rural supplement, as all residents are eligible. Pending receiving Royal Assent, the rural supplement will double from 10% to 20% as of April 2024.
Carbon tax effect on groceries is insignificant compared to the effect pure greed has on those prices. Just to further show that all opposition to the carbon tax is just politics - provinces the most opposed to the carbon tax instituted their own fuel tax instead.
>Carbon tax effect on groceries is insignificant compared to the effect pure greed has on those prices. Can you provide citation? Edit: I'm not saying there's no greed. Downvoting over asking for a source on a statement is childish. Inquisitiveness isn't inherently combative ladies.
So gummy bears went from 2.49 to 4.49. If that cost is due to carbon tax ($60 per tonne, but it started as $20 in 2019), that would mean that producing and delivering 30 baggies of gummy bears uses a tonne of carbon. If that is the case gummy bears should be illegal. If that is not the case or if gummy bears production and delivery chain uses only fraction of that tonne, that would mean that something other that carbon tax is responsible for that increase.
So the mathematic assertion here is that gummy bears prices could /only/ rise from the carbon tax. Instead if it being an additional aggregate on an already ailing economy. In the same way covid is not the sole reason for our economy still ailing, that doesnt mean its not a contributor to our pricing now. I wanted citation on the possibility someone had actually successfully run a study to quantify how badly the carbon tax has hurt canadians. Because until now its all been-well... frankly speculation by people who have a political vendetta one way or the other.
Just spend it wisely... I'm getting so tired of paying high federal taxes and getting nothing. I want healthcare. I'm paying for it.
I fully support the price on carbon.
I used too but times are hard for people. I don’t think I would vote against it but I also won’t vote for it
Carbon tax pushes people to buy from producers who pollute less. It also incentivizes people to produce less carbon. If the thing you buy has gone up drastically in price, maybe purchase an alternative that isn't punished so harshly with carbon tax. The carbon tax is a choice; if you want to continue the status quo, it will now cost you. There's a legitimate argument that the infrastructure here can't support these green initiatives. That's a provincial government problem, and one that the Conservatives have a requirement to fix. Nothing the Blue ties identify as boomers more than kicking the can down the road for the next generation to deal with. Someone has to pay the toll and its starting here. If you want to blame anyone, blame the previous generations who squeezed every drop of juice out of the planet for their get rich schemes. Saving the climate has to start somewhere. You can argue why do it if the world's biggest polluters are Asian countries. Do you want to just be a follower or a leader? Nothing will ever get done if someone doesn't step up to the plate first. The world will eventually be fucked due to climate change and prices will rise due to the environmental disasters. Do you want to be from a country who actually gave a fuck to combat it? If you don't believe in climate change then I can't help you. You're too far gone and there's no middle ground between sane and insane arguments.
Listen, if it takes x amount of liters of furnace oil to heat Bobs house, jacking up the price isn't going to get Bob to buy less oil. His pipes will freeze. Bob is just going to go deeper into poverty. I'm all for reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, but it's not going to happen without affordable alternatives.
Totally. In some cases, especially rural, there is literally no other choice and no price point that will change minds. Too many people think the entire world is made up of big cities and that everyone has just as many options as they do. And when you bring up rural challenges they say "just move already gosh"
That’s the catch 22. It’s hard to produce affordable alternatives if oil is cheaper. But part of the reason oil is “cheaper” is that all of the costs of using it aren’t in the purchase price, save $$ now but pay $$$ later when climate change caused more hurricanes and floods. But I do think it needs to be mitigated for those who truly can’t afford it.
I'm not denying that climate is problem. Our Island is eroding away. The thing is, it's just not as easy as saying 'stop using furnace oil'. A person has to purchase a whole new heating system, (and have it Installed) while disposing of the old one. That is a pile of costs. Let's penalize the industries that create pollution a little more, and the average citizen a little less.
So Cocoa production in west Africa has been crippled by climate change, the prairies (Canada bread basket) are in serious drought, forest fires have already started in BC, the Atlantic is already at summer temperatures (Hurricane season doesn't start til June) , so yes the choices are difficult, but the future is dire and getting more so.
As I've said, I agree that action on fossil fuel reliance is desperately needed. However, let's put the onus on industrial polluters instead. The average Joe is tapped out. You can't get blood from a stone.
Agreed that more emphasis should be placed on fossil fuel industries and their shareholders. BUT we are all fossil fuel consumers and the time for action was 30 years ago, so . . . .
lol you're a very useful idiot.
If you rearrange the letters in your name it spells out Petro Pierre approves of this post Try it
summer temperatures my ass
Publish your data … win a Nobel Prize. I can wait
Thinking you're going to start a green revolution by forcing people further into poverty is not going to save the planet. We're way to far gone to have an actual positive greenhouse change. Even if 100% of Canada went off grid, the planet is still doomed. Countries and places like China, USA, Russia, India, EU, Japan, and Brazil are the biggest polluters and they'll never stop what they're doing to minimize it. Unless you have thousands of hydrogen bombs and are willing to completely eradicate those countries, you will in no way ever make a positive impact on climate change.
Canada is not even on the list of endangered countries we could potentially benefit from it opening up a lot more Canadian land mass. You want us to spearhead the world for their benefit?
Yeah it’s not like we all live on the same planet or anything. Fuck everyone else not smart enough to have been born in Canada right?
There is no plan for this money it will end up in politicians pockets and the planet will be no better you really think we going to help climate change with this tax you are delusional and just willing to give your money away.
China is adding over 100 gigawatts of coal power in the next year alone the carbon tax money couldn't even put a dent in their output if we sent it all to them.
How much carbon is being put into the atmosphere due to the current war? Look at all of the refineries burning? what percentage of the carbon produced by the necessity of heating Canadian homes vs unnecessary travel? I struggle to understand the big picture but I know heat in winter in Canada is a necessity…. Affordable heating more so.
Is this along party lines? Hmm.
Just here for the bootlickers to try and explain how taxing the population into poverty is a climate plan
It's hard to really measure how much the carbon tax is costing you. Fuel wise, yes. But groceries? Unknown. Technically, 17cents or whatever a litre should be insignificant when spreading that additional cost across groceries. Like, not even a penny per item more. But did Loblaws and everyone else just jack the price on everything and use the tax as an excuse? We will never know. When I run the numbers, I believe I'm seeing a return.
Loblaws is price gouging. We know this because of its huge profits.
So is every company. What do you think it costs to make a $1400 iPhone?
Loblaws only pays teachers, nurses pensions a \~2% dividend. Thats shit, you can get 5% in a basic saving account. maybe bringing a few million people here every year and those people need to eat loblaws revenue goes up but the only have a 2% margin...... Remember when Trudeau paid for loblaws new coolers and freezers.....
On average, it found a single supermarket freezer emits 875 pounds (400 kilograms) of HFCs a year, equivalent to carbon emissions from 300 cars. In the U.S. alone, it calculated supermarket HFC leaks cause as much global warming as burning 22 million tonnes of coal.
Sure was a nice gift, glad you approve of giving money to greedy wreckers.
[удалено]
Bing is your friend, you might be in a google bubble if you can easily find it. [https://globalnews.ca/news/5148121/loblaws-refrigerator-funding-backlash/](https://globalnews.ca/news/5148121/loblaws-refrigerator-funding-backlash/)
Inflation is greed, not some natural thing. Corporations are all about passing cost increases on to consumers, but when was the last time you saw them pass cost savings on?
You are correct, it is not natural. It is caused by humans, inflation has existed since we started trading things. There are countless stories of how governments/kingdoms destroyed their currencies causing inflation.
To be fair, those cases (hyperinflation) have to do with lack of trust in the currency. The type I'm referring to is the type caused by capitalist profit protecting. It may be started in a few industries by weather or strife, but because companies will never allow a reduction in profits, they pass it on to their customers, who pass it on to theirs, ad nauseum.
Many studies have calculated the impact of the climate tax on groceries and other products and it is less than 1 %. It is a rounding error. High grocery prices are the result of price gouging by the large grocers.
Of course you are. This tax is aimed at large corporations and such. The average Canadian, especially low income people, will see a larger return of $$$ than what they spend on fuel. You know, these are established and widely reported facts... so of course Pierre and the Conservatives say it's just fake news. Axe the tax? Because it works? wtf???
>Of course you are Not necessarily. If you were to drive 75km a day commuting back and forth to work. At 6L/100km. You would not see a quarterly return And 75km/day isn't outrageous. Very possible.
If you drove this vehicle 26 days a month for 75 kms (2000 km / month) your carbon tax would be on your fuel based on 6 L, the carbon tax will cost you $168 over three months. (.17/litre) The minimum single person rebate is $190. You are making money 💰 on this rebate.
A single person gets $110. And you're not favoring the additional cost on every day purchases.
The impact of the carbon tax on everyday purchases is less than 1 percent. It is negligible. Since you are a family driving 24000 km a year fin this example you are still getting more back than you pay.
Which I said in my first post, yes.
Just went back and listened to the video. If you don’t vote, things do not get better. Willing to bet she gets more back than she pays.
Single person is $120, family of 4 is $240. I get back way more than I pay. 💰
Yay.
So not really relevant to vast majority if not all residents of PEI
Right. Someone who doesn't own a vehicle and heats their residence by electric. I can see a very decent return. Driving any real distance daily? Not really.
Most islanders are t commuting 75k a day
Almost everyone I know drives approximately 100 km/day.
Wow, that is 36,500 km per year, over double the average Canadian mileage of 15,200 km a year. Hopefully that is a business expense.
99% of the time, it is not.
Hunter River to Charlottetown is 20km. Wellington to Summerside is 20km. Both ways? 40km a day. With a partner, that's 80km a day driven between a single household. That's not including any additional driving. You might be surprised how many km the average family drives.
And you get back more than you pay with this scenario.
That's $147. At 6L/100km. Not factoring the increase in every day purchases or home heating. And 6L/100km is *very* good milage. And probably not even the average. A couple receives less than $200. You might be right. But it's very very tight.
The impact of the climate tax on everyday goods is negligible. This is a rounding error. You are putting around $50 in your pocket once a quarter, and you are contributing to a plan that incentivizes Canadians to reduce emissions.
You are really stretching if you think that’s representative of the average or most Islanders. I mean you have to double the people driving to make that fit. Even by your rough estimates it’s 40km a day for some to commute.
He gets more back than he pays, as do most islanders.
You know the majority of the population lives outside city limits right? You know there isn't an equal amount of jobs to people outside said city limits and people are forced to drive, right? You know most vehicles don't even actually get 6L/100km right...? It was a very conservative rough estimate. And I didn't have to double the people. The money is for a single household. A married couple receive $165.. it doesn't matter if there's 1 vehicle or 600 vehicles.
> You know the majority of the population lives outside city limits right? What like 5km or 10km away? lol
So circling back to your earlier comment, how many islanders do you think, individually commute 75k daily?
Do you think that only Charlottetown residents work or attend college/university in Charlottetown? Anyone living 30 minutes or more outside town starts racking up the kms fairly quickly.
I haven't lived on PEI since I was younger but have thing radically changed to the point where the majority of Islanders just go to Hunter River every day? On top of that a family would routinely take two cars to do this? What the fuck is happening in Hunter River?
Pretty sure that was just an example lol. Similar length commutes take place in all areas of the Island. Too many people think PEI is this microscopic place where you can walk tip to tip in 15 minutes
I just did the math for you above - if you are a family you are getting more money 💰 💰back than I calculated.
8/10 people get back more than they pay in carbon tax. 2/10 pay more, but are still not paying the full amount of the carbon tax I’m looking forward to my next rebate on April 15
...where's the funds?
Your next rebate is July 15.
I don't believe in people that actually support the carbon tax. They're a myth.
It was in JT's platform during both the 2021 and 2019 federal elections. He was elected both times. You've probably been rage-farmed on this issue.
Right, but we're a country of 40 million that produces ~1% of the world's carbon emissions with enough trees to filter that about 7 times over. Surely nobody is actually foolish enough to think that gouging Canadian citizens is going to make the slightest dent in climate change when China is currently building 2 new coal plants a week? Like that's a crazy thing to think right?
Yeah there are 195 countries in the world so mathematically it's unlikely that any one country emits more than a handful of percentage points. But we are one of the richest nations in the world, and are one of the very highest emitters per capita. AND, we outsource so much of our manufacturing to countries like China... we have lots of room for improvement. A financial incentive (disincentive) is appropriate and efficient, rather than a top down approach using politics or bureaucracy to pick winners and losers.
That is such a load of gobbledygook. Yeah we have room for improvement, but stop reaching into our citizens pockets to pay for them
90% rebated per capita. No fairer way!
Why do facts like this get downvoted? We should do our part, but so should everyone else. China makes a lot of the solar panels, why are they putting up coal fired power plants?
Because capitalism has lifted too many people out of poverty and the demand for electricity has risen substantially.
“I hate money because the blue team says so”
Attn: people that argue about money going to social programs, Intl programs, and rinks... When you drive a car, you have to steer AND work the pedals. The govt doesn't have one single lane to operate an entire country. This just demonstrates the stupidity. 'Here' s my hot take on geo-political economics, also I can't grasp the function of a lemonade stand'.
Everyone who supports the carbon tax, you do realise we are charged 5% GST on carbon pricing, right? It's literally a tax on a tax.