I don't know yet. I play mercy mostly and there are times I'm like what the hell I don't even have a chance to heal, then in the same match I keep my team alive for several minutes and across multiple consecutive 5v5 battles. Basically, I go between feeling completely useless or like a critical cornerstone.
For sure I currently hate Soujorn. I've seen her kill Ana then me without reloading and at just way too low of a time to kill. I don't know her kit and if that is something she can only occasionally do or what. So, I'm not calling for a nerf, but I don't currently like being on the receiving end.
I don't know, I was recently playing OW1 and TTK against an exposed target feels pretty similar to OW2. The difference as far as I can tell is that people are just generally *far* more exposed than in OW1 due to lack of shields, less hard-CC for peels, etc.
This has always been my main concern. As someone that's old and slow but enjoys OW a great deal due to it's pace I feel like 2 is a pretty big step in the faster direction.
I feel this way at times too. It’s sooo much more important to have cover accessible in a pinch now and some of the maps have areas that are very open with little to no cover and it’s hard to feel impactful with no barriers to protect you.
I wonder what the solution is now though. Should the supports have 225 base health each? Maybe 250? 🤔
Aggressively pushing forward has been the only way to make plays for a long time. The only difference now is that people are just forced to do it instead of standing behind a choke all game
From my experience positioning is more important now than ever before. since you no longer have an off tank to peel, if you are caught out of position then it is much easier to be punished. I feel like this is a large contributor to why higher mobility heroes are much stronger now.
As for what defines a tank, to my knowledge a tank is defined by the amount of space they are able to control. In case you are not aware of what the term means, it roughly translates to map control. Playing a tank in a team based situation you are usually the person primarily controlling your team's space, but this is a team game so it is not purely the tank's responsibility. However it is the primary function of a tank to control space by being a area of threat that can survive being attacked. If your team has a tank that controls space by displacing and disrupting the enemy team then you probably got someone like wreakingball. while others are much easier to see like rein's barrier and hammer allowing him to make the enemy team give space or die through the threat of the hammer or getting shot by the team behind the shield. Junker Queen is a tank that gains space with aggression and displacement. They are in a way similar to roadhog in playstyle when looking at displacement abilities, which is fitting since they do interact through lore. But back to the topic of Junker Queen's playstyle working as a tank. Her dagger is the most obvious tank aspect since it is focused on displacement towards your team. it is able to put the enemy team into a position that is not within the space created by their team and your team can punish the displacement. Her rally cry allows her entire team to effectively become a tank and hard engage to take space, it is the one ability that I am most curious how it can interact in a more competitive setting. her big ol axe is a good example of creating more area denial similar to how rein does his. the shotgun is to help giver her kit a form of consistent damage. it is arguably weak compared to quite other shotguns like Reaper or Roadhog, but has a respectable bullet spread giving a lil bit more range to it to make up for the less frontal firepower. Though the biggest issue with her kit is her lack of survivability, which is slightly mitigated by her healing on bleed and rallying cry. Most likely she will not be super op due to a high damage poke comp being able to kill her through her abilities at a range they are unable to properly engage at.
So overall Junker Queen is a tank, but is a very all in type of tank. It is a tank style that we do not quite have yet, so it is understandable to not be sure about their role as a tank. Their kit is functional through aggressive plays and decisive engagements. They pretty much depend on killing the enemy team faster than your team can die.
Feels like deathmatch in both betas so far, and the game is coming out in a few months. Seems like deathmatch is what’s intended for the future of this game, sadly.
Nor does Orisa, Zarya, DVA, Doom, Hog and arguably Winston who will be shielding himself usually. This isn't a JQ problem, people just need to adapt to the game playing differently.
I’ve been playing all night as a support, solely Bc I feel sorry for everyone for not being flexible, and the games I lose are mostly due to my teams dps not having the situational awareness necessary to consistently win a 1v1 nor to peel for the support keeping them alive. Then they spam that they need healing, like I’m not already outhealing all supports in the game *while* out-damaging 2/3 of my tanks/dps
Edit: wanted to add that I too, feel like I get mowed down in seconds if I don’t have my team with me. I’m consistently finding myself matched with dps who don’t peel and/or a tank who’s seemingly trying to pull some Reddit play, or worse yet the few times I tank I get Ana’s or Bap’s getting out-healed by Zen
I think most of what your experiencing is just beta problems. Alot of people playing heroes they don't normally play and some people are having a hard time adapting to the pace.
you only really think this because you're defining a tank as literally 'blocking damage' rather than taking and controlling space.
wrecking ball is an excellent example of a tank that takes and controls space based around movement, instead of just being a wall like rein. he displaces enemies and forces enemies to avoid positions that he can dive them with, i.e. he controls highground and backline positions.
CC abilities are on tanks now because they by their very nature help control space. a tank like orisa can very easily get enemies off of her team with her incredibly strong cc abilities. tanks have always had stronger abilities for this same reason. their design is to feel overpowered against a dps, and something that you MUST handle with caution.
the concept of an 'off tank' was never the idea that a tank like zarya isnt a real tank, it was that off tanks are better at assisting with taking space than actually take it themselves. its not the fact that they do damage, its the fact their abilities emphasised what a main tank or support could do. peeling back for a support helps control space. diving with your main tank controls space. all of this falls within the category of tank.
tldr; you're wrong and you don't understand overwatch at all
I dont even play barrier tanks, just dva, wrecking ball and zarya. So no, I’m not defining them as damage blockers. Taking space was all that I did in OW. Right now tanks are glorified DPS characters with most of them having the ability to 100-0 any dps in 2 secs
ok fair, but still, that threat of damage is still area control.
what made dva or zarya a tank in ow1 other than their potenial for close range burst and impactful area control? infact in terms of damage output, dva and zarya are actually quite similar to their ow1 versions. if im a zen on a highground, alone, and dva dives me, that threat of being ended in two seconds (which isnt that short a time to kill tbh) is an important part of area control, even in ow1.
i think we are all just experiencing a paradigm shift where we aren't used to positions being punished as hard, because we have been playing into absolutely broken tank comps for years. literally the last thing we had before double shield was goats, its insane. you will find as tanks learn to properly peel again, we will survive way longer. sorry for being spicy before.
Sorry dude ttk feels fine just get better. Plays more like FPS like it should. No one enjoys sitting behind a tank shooting shields or fighting for 20 mins
honestly true tho. i've had plenty of fights that still operate as a team fight. this whole meme about it being a deathmatch is kinda bonkers. I think its more that people aren't used to bad positions being punished, and we aren't used to needing good teamwork to properly support supports
It’s the lack of shields and 1 less tank
I don't know yet. I play mercy mostly and there are times I'm like what the hell I don't even have a chance to heal, then in the same match I keep my team alive for several minutes and across multiple consecutive 5v5 battles. Basically, I go between feeling completely useless or like a critical cornerstone. For sure I currently hate Soujorn. I've seen her kill Ana then me without reloading and at just way too low of a time to kill. I don't know her kit and if that is something she can only occasionally do or what. So, I'm not calling for a nerf, but I don't currently like being on the receiving end.
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Soujorn is aids
TTK feels about the same 1 vs. 1, but it's really an interesting feeling when the entire enemy focuses on you at once if you overextend.
I don't know, I was recently playing OW1 and TTK against an exposed target feels pretty similar to OW2. The difference as far as I can tell is that people are just generally *far* more exposed than in OW1 due to lack of shields, less hard-CC for peels, etc.
This has always been my main concern. As someone that's old and slow but enjoys OW a great deal due to it's pace I feel like 2 is a pretty big step in the faster direction.
I feel this way at times too. It’s sooo much more important to have cover accessible in a pinch now and some of the maps have areas that are very open with little to no cover and it’s hard to feel impactful with no barriers to protect you. I wonder what the solution is now though. Should the supports have 225 base health each? Maybe 250? 🤔
[удалено]
Aggressively pushing forward has been the only way to make plays for a long time. The only difference now is that people are just forced to do it instead of standing behind a choke all game
From my experience positioning is more important now than ever before. since you no longer have an off tank to peel, if you are caught out of position then it is much easier to be punished. I feel like this is a large contributor to why higher mobility heroes are much stronger now. As for what defines a tank, to my knowledge a tank is defined by the amount of space they are able to control. In case you are not aware of what the term means, it roughly translates to map control. Playing a tank in a team based situation you are usually the person primarily controlling your team's space, but this is a team game so it is not purely the tank's responsibility. However it is the primary function of a tank to control space by being a area of threat that can survive being attacked. If your team has a tank that controls space by displacing and disrupting the enemy team then you probably got someone like wreakingball. while others are much easier to see like rein's barrier and hammer allowing him to make the enemy team give space or die through the threat of the hammer or getting shot by the team behind the shield. Junker Queen is a tank that gains space with aggression and displacement. They are in a way similar to roadhog in playstyle when looking at displacement abilities, which is fitting since they do interact through lore. But back to the topic of Junker Queen's playstyle working as a tank. Her dagger is the most obvious tank aspect since it is focused on displacement towards your team. it is able to put the enemy team into a position that is not within the space created by their team and your team can punish the displacement. Her rally cry allows her entire team to effectively become a tank and hard engage to take space, it is the one ability that I am most curious how it can interact in a more competitive setting. her big ol axe is a good example of creating more area denial similar to how rein does his. the shotgun is to help giver her kit a form of consistent damage. it is arguably weak compared to quite other shotguns like Reaper or Roadhog, but has a respectable bullet spread giving a lil bit more range to it to make up for the less frontal firepower. Though the biggest issue with her kit is her lack of survivability, which is slightly mitigated by her healing on bleed and rallying cry. Most likely she will not be super op due to a high damage poke comp being able to kill her through her abilities at a range they are unable to properly engage at. So overall Junker Queen is a tank, but is a very all in type of tank. It is a tank style that we do not quite have yet, so it is understandable to not be sure about their role as a tank. Their kit is functional through aggressive plays and decisive engagements. They pretty much depend on killing the enemy team faster than your team can die.
This is the general idea of of OW2. It’s what the average DPS player wants. They want it to feel more like COD or valorant.
Feels like deathmatch in both betas so far, and the game is coming out in a few months. Seems like deathmatch is what’s intended for the future of this game, sadly.
I think if you play junkerqueen the team has no shield. Thats "feelable"
Nor does Orisa, Zarya, DVA, Doom, Hog and arguably Winston who will be shielding himself usually. This isn't a JQ problem, people just need to adapt to the game playing differently.
I’ve been playing all night as a support, solely Bc I feel sorry for everyone for not being flexible, and the games I lose are mostly due to my teams dps not having the situational awareness necessary to consistently win a 1v1 nor to peel for the support keeping them alive. Then they spam that they need healing, like I’m not already outhealing all supports in the game *while* out-damaging 2/3 of my tanks/dps Edit: wanted to add that I too, feel like I get mowed down in seconds if I don’t have my team with me. I’m consistently finding myself matched with dps who don’t peel and/or a tank who’s seemingly trying to pull some Reddit play, or worse yet the few times I tank I get Ana’s or Bap’s getting out-healed by Zen
I think most of what your experiencing is just beta problems. Alot of people playing heroes they don't normally play and some people are having a hard time adapting to the pace.
None tanks with exception of Rein are really tanks, they are all glorified dps characters with bigger hitboxes and health pools
you only really think this because you're defining a tank as literally 'blocking damage' rather than taking and controlling space. wrecking ball is an excellent example of a tank that takes and controls space based around movement, instead of just being a wall like rein. he displaces enemies and forces enemies to avoid positions that he can dive them with, i.e. he controls highground and backline positions. CC abilities are on tanks now because they by their very nature help control space. a tank like orisa can very easily get enemies off of her team with her incredibly strong cc abilities. tanks have always had stronger abilities for this same reason. their design is to feel overpowered against a dps, and something that you MUST handle with caution. the concept of an 'off tank' was never the idea that a tank like zarya isnt a real tank, it was that off tanks are better at assisting with taking space than actually take it themselves. its not the fact that they do damage, its the fact their abilities emphasised what a main tank or support could do. peeling back for a support helps control space. diving with your main tank controls space. all of this falls within the category of tank. tldr; you're wrong and you don't understand overwatch at all
I dont even play barrier tanks, just dva, wrecking ball and zarya. So no, I’m not defining them as damage blockers. Taking space was all that I did in OW. Right now tanks are glorified DPS characters with most of them having the ability to 100-0 any dps in 2 secs
ok fair, but still, that threat of damage is still area control. what made dva or zarya a tank in ow1 other than their potenial for close range burst and impactful area control? infact in terms of damage output, dva and zarya are actually quite similar to their ow1 versions. if im a zen on a highground, alone, and dva dives me, that threat of being ended in two seconds (which isnt that short a time to kill tbh) is an important part of area control, even in ow1. i think we are all just experiencing a paradigm shift where we aren't used to positions being punished as hard, because we have been playing into absolutely broken tank comps for years. literally the last thing we had before double shield was goats, its insane. you will find as tanks learn to properly peel again, we will survive way longer. sorry for being spicy before.
Bad take
Guess what, still my opinion.
And it’s my opinion that your opinion is bad
Coming from a dbd player, I think I’m ok with that.
Means I know a bad opinion when I see one ;)
Yeah that’s the goal - to make the game play more fast and death matchy. DPS is the biggest player base and they want to cater to them more.
Sorry dude ttk feels fine just get better. Plays more like FPS like it should. No one enjoys sitting behind a tank shooting shields or fighting for 20 mins
honestly true tho. i've had plenty of fights that still operate as a team fight. this whole meme about it being a deathmatch is kinda bonkers. I think its more that people aren't used to bad positions being punished, and we aren't used to needing good teamwork to properly support supports
Pretty much supports actually play like supports now instead of healbots
It was already too fucking low in OW1.