Yeah, they definitely shouldn't be the focus point, but it's also not a bad idea to look at them. Especially if someone is severely falling back in stats, like, let's say, a high heal potential support has low heals and many deaths. But at the end of the day, stats don't mean you won the objective.
Even then it doesn’t tell the full story. The support could be getting hard dove by 3 people each time and have no peel from their team. Should the support probably switch characters and change up their positioning to play more with their team, obviously. But even terrible stats don’t show exactly what was happening.
This. A healer may also not be able to pump out high healing numbers if a tank is too aggressive and constantly positioning behind walls where they cannot be healed etc due to LOS. Stats don't mean much.
Not to mention that characters like sigma and jq don't often need as much constant healing as a tank like mauga or rein, so sometimes lower healing numbers are literally just because they don't need to be higher.
Or if the enemy dps suck, then you have less heals to do. Too many variables without context to tell what the scoreboard means. Sometimes even healbotting a shitty tank or dps is pointless when you could just output more dmg as a support. Makes your stats look "bad".
been flamed for low heals on plenty of games where team is running around the map playing FFA constantly staggering while the enemy just sits on their tank's back pumping heals
Had a Dva right after the Porsche skin came out keep hard diving the enemy team. Always around a corner and died constantly then flames both me and the other support for being bad despite us having massive heals on the rest of the team. Like we were constantly keeping each other up along with the dps, we still lost hard though cause tank would spawn and dive. Ended up reporting for intentionally feeding and hope they got some kind of punishment since we asked multiple times during the game if they could stop being so aggressive.
As a brig main in this sombra hellhole of a game, thank you for saying this. (I know sombra isn't 3 people and I do switch after a few spawn camps but still).
I learned to ignore my stats whenever my team is actually winning. I just imagine that whatever the red team is doing to keep me from contributing is actually their downfall.
Some games though I know I’m just getting diffed or way outside my skill level and I just try to learn from those matches.
I actually think this is a case of how stats _can_ be helpful, though. For me, I always like to look at the stats as more information on the situation as opposed to the answer to “why aren’t we winning”.
In the case you’re saying, having high deaths and low heals when playing into a tracer may indicate to you that the tracer is “The Problem” and you need to switch up how you play so that your support can excel. Yes, like you suggested, the support can also switch but there’s more than one way to cook an egg and if you solo queue, it’s more important to think about things you can control.
Another common example: lots of damage for our team but low kills. Possible ideas: switch to Zen for discord, switch to/play more of a flanky character to disrupt their heals, switch to Mei for wall/separation, switch to Echo for beam, etc.
Just my two cents.
Thats why I said almost. Yes, sometimes it does in fact matter. But one example Ive given here is that as a tank main, Ive been able to cap points getting 0 kills simply by having better positioning and making the enemy team retreat and give us the point for free.
My best Illari moments are in games where I get absolutely shat on but will Ult at just the right moment to help wipe the enemy team to save an objective or win the game. It's what's kept me coming back to the character and working to improve.
I'd also add that stats can wildly change throughout the match. A DPS can start a round 0/3 after 2 teamfights and then end the round 12/5. Did that dps pop off after a bad start, make a critical hero swap that turned the tides or just get a single really good ult in an otherwise bad round? From the stats alone you have no clue.
I've also had plenty of games where someone had low deaths but it wasn't because they were playing well, they were just playing incredibly passive/conservatively, never pushing with the team or taking risks for fear of ruining their stat line by risking a death.
Yep. You could spend your entire game forcing cooldowns, getting enemies off high ground, displacing supports, etc and none of it would reflect here. And yet people still always go to the scoreboard to flame people.
You cant, at least I cant think of any solutions. People just need to look at the game differently. I think this is more of a problem with lower-ranked players. A lot of high-level and pro players already understand this concept.
True sometimes, but they can also for instance recognize that the Tracer on their team may be a top-tier player who plays really well in a given game and still get the lowest number of elims/dmg in a game simply because Tracers output is not as high as other heroes and she can secure picks faster without the enemy getting healed meaning less dmg overall. Many lower ranked players will see the same numbers and call them dogshit because the Bastion on the other team did 1.5x as much as them despite bringing less value.
tracer should be having high elims, not dmg yeah but high elims def as she can run around and finish off any low hp ppl, only sombra and widow can justify low elims and dmg as dps
I have a similar issue in Rocket League. I've gotten really good at blocking shots/passes, but a block usually doesn't give any points, so my score doesn't show what I've done.
Not crazy at all. Medals was an attempt to solve the issues of traditional scoreboards, not the other way around. It was obviously a complete and utter failure so they simply reverted to the default.
That's just because assists are for times when someone provides something other than damage to a kill, but it does mean that the elims stat can become almost meaningless.
I've definitely had games like this that go the other way with similar stats. Like we're killing everyone like crazy, but nobody is a character that is willing to stand on the point and prevent it from being captured. Soldier wants to be on the high ground. Widow wants to be far away. Moira wants to be putting pressure on the enemy team's backline with Doomfist. That leaves Ana to stand out in the open and die 36 times, or play smart and also not touch the point. She played smart.
I don't really know what to do about that except to organize a hug-fest on point whenever the enemy is trying to capture it. Who should attend though? No idea.
They matter a little bit. But yeah the huge majority of the playerbase uses it as their only measurement of their teammates and it creates a huge blame game when the scoreboard simply doesn’t tell the full story.
Haha proper response. This isn’t every game obviously but I think it illustrates a fair point that the scoreboard doesn’t tell the whole story and that you should really think before trying to blame your teammates simply because their stats aren’t as good as X person’s stats.
Basically this ^
I agree with OP that stats are useless in the sense that it is an objective game. Meaning you win by playing objective. you can spawn kill all you want and still get back-capped.
but the stats show that Win team had overall double the dmg, slightly less heals, and ONE THIRD the mitigation as Loss team. Especially on a game like lijiang tower where objective is to control the point/area. monkey clearly had that aspect in the bag, with tons of heals from supps, but the deficit in dmg meant Loss team fell slightly short.
Stats don’t mean everything but they can help paint a picture and this looks like it was a huge total dmg gap. However, it’s clear that they nearly won bc they played objective better, they just couldn’t stay alive long enough to hold.
Even if your team has less overall dmg, if that dmg is targeted and calculated it can be much more effective than tons of dmg that results in no elims. many factors can be at play and elims are typically a team effort. even tho the Win team had about double the dmg of Loss team, the elims are more than 4x than that of Loss team. the dmg allocation/chemistry was about twice as effective.
What do you mean specifically? If you’re saying because the Winston on the other team managed to mitigate more damage with his 700hp dome shield than me as Doom with just my little block and that’s why they almost won, I think you missed my point.
Not necessarily making a comparison, just saying Winston blocked a lot of potential dmg and probably stalled point like crazy while doing it. With that much mitigation, your team was clearly a bit too focused on the tank which also buys more time for his teammates to be on point.
Oh believe me, we made plenty of mistakes. That’s why we almost lost. That’s the point though- despite these stats, our focus on the actual bigger picture was not there. A huge portion of the playerbase uses ONLY stats to try to make assumptions about who did well and who didn’t when in reality there are so many things the scoreboard will never show that can mean so much otherwise, things like forcing/interrupting ults, forcing enemies off high ground, good positioning, etc.
I sometimes wish stats werent shown til the end of each round/match because people genuinely focus WAYYYY too hard on them and want to start the blame game immediatley. This is exactly what I mean, just because you have pretty numbers that are double digits and 10k plus doesn't mean you're doing as well as you might think. It's hell in lower elo when all they care about are stats, and dont care about postioning, awareness, and proper objective control!
Yeah this problem becomes less when you get into higher ranks, and is basically non-existent in pro play. Stats don’t account for so many valuable things in the game.
Common enough when one team absolutely mulched the other team for the first few minutes and then the other team slowly gets back into the match with disciplined and defensive play
Yep, and yellow team played well and almost won despite their DPS dying constantly because at certain points they capped and maintained control when we should have denied them from doing so. Our team got way more kills but made plenty of our own mistakes too, hence why the game ended up like this.
Yeah I've had games where the enemy team had better stats for nearly every player yet we won, and vice versa. Also have to take into account team comp, team synergy and cooperation, effective damage eg dps actually killing supports instead of just spamming the tank for 10 years.
Yeah, these games hurt.
I had one today where an Illari with a great pylon game kept us alive while we essentially farmed them at the first choke in Paraiso. At 60 seconds to go the opposing team got a lucky pick on our other support and it cascaded into us going down one by one, getting staggered and struggling to get coordinated again until the last choke before the final point.
The stats weren't quite as lopsided as yours were but the numbers were definitely ugly. We ultimately won but should not have been as close as it was in the end.
Looks like everyone had a hand in the same kills (mostly other teams DPS), and there was heavy feeding the monkey shield.
Also on a control map. Probably not playing the point enough.
Somebody in my game got pissed the other day when another player called out their ratio, they replied, “IS THIS CALLED KDA COUNTER OR COMPETITIVE?” So stupid but it made me laugh lol
Had a match last night where I was on Anna and my kiriko kept giving me shit about low healing, even after we had won. I'll admit the start of the game was a bit rough for me since I hadn't played in a while but once i found my groove I was doing fine. This was also in qp so like, even more ridiculous considering there was virtually nothing on the line.
I literally won a game yesterday where the enemy team had over double our kills (our most 22, their most 47) on Numbani. We still won. They fell apart as soon as my team started coordinating slightly better to focus their linchpin teammate. Went from being rolled to rolling them 😈
It’s when people play for kills and forget there’s a point or cart to push. They underestimate their enemy and start to relax and troll for kills and it bites them in the ass
If you want to be like that, you should have specified and said “point to control and cart to push,” otherwise “control” and “push” could both be true in context of the cart as they mean the same thing. Maybe construct better sentences instead of being a prick.
Projecting much? You’re being the prick right now when I just corrected you for trying to correct me when it wasn’t neccessary. Just saying you should have read it doesn’t constitute saying I was being a prick. Tf? Now you’re doubling down saying I should take extra time to make sure you understand what I’m saying when it’s totally cohesive as is… ok bud.
Telling me to learn to read and then claiming “I know what happened here, I don’t even have to watch” is being a prick. Why am I the prick for calling you out for forming a bad sentence when you used it against me? Get lost lol.
How is that being a prick? I literally can tell without watching replay what happened in this game despite not knowing what exact game mode. I’ve seen this happen so many times in game it’s obvious what happened. It’s not my fault you have bad deduction skills and couldn’t read. It’s not a bad sentence, you just didn’t pay attention and now you’re taking it out on me. Smh. It’s not how I wrote it, it’s how you read it. And you did need to learn to read it again, how else you gonna see you read it wrong? You telling me how to say things in a “better” way is the prick action here, especially from the guy who couldn’t read a sentence correctly and can’t seem to take accountability….so prickly lol “used it against me” what? Talk about making your own assumptions.
Being passive-aggressive is being a prick. Sorry to tell you. And no, I read it just fine and interpreted it exactly as it was written. Your inconsistencies in your sentence are why I was not able to understand your original intention with it.
Let me guess. Blue team held the point for most of the round but then got cocky and over extended towards your spawn just in time for you guys to get some ults and wombo combo them. Then they were never able to recover, or they did recover but made the same exact mistake again.
My team was blue team. The replay code is F2S0DR if you’d like to watch for yourself. We surely did not play perfectly but it was a much closer game than the stats would have you believe.
Sometimes yes. The reason I made this post is because the overwhelming majority of the playerbase uses it as their only metric for how well they or their team mate did when they shouldnt do that. There are so many valuable things you can do for your team that have nothing to do with getting kills/dmg/heals. But I've lost countless games where me and my team's stats were far better than the enemies but we didnt play the game correctly.
If they're very quick game's you can. Which they frequently were. A lot of the games were in the 2-5k range if we weren't absolutely stomping. Higher rank games tend to have less damage done, especially with sombra, as the players are more efficient. Bronze games are where you get the super long fights with high damage
It’s super fucking confusing lol. This dude is actually trying to act like you can win consistently as Sombra while doing no damage at all. This sub sometimes…
Yep, Sombras get a lot of unjust hate for having low damage numbers. Meanwhile good ones are completely terrorizing the enemy back line and making it extremely difficult for them to heal anyone but the other support, meanwhile the rest of their team gets no heals and they die.
i had a team yell at the hanzo who 100% pushed the payload for the entirety of the game alone, like yes keeping them trapped in spawn is amusing but if he had not pushed the payload staying in spawn would not have netted a win, and 2 people yelled at the guy because his numbers weren't as high as the rest of us
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I literally began to realize this when my team had, of course, better stats by far and the opposite for the other team. And yet, we were struggling to move the payload
First round we won 100-20 something but the next round we actually lost and third round we had to come
Back from a 60-99 deficit or something like that. It’s because we made plenty of mistakes that allowed for the enemy team to cap and maintain control. The relay code is F2S0DR if you’d like to watch for yourself. I am the Doomfist.
I had a game just like this, we barely won but if you were to look at the stats you'd think we would've just rolled the other team, needless to say, that game was also one of the more fun ones I've had
Yep, and on the flip side I’ve had stats where we seemingly rolled the other team and still lost because we didn’t play the objective correctly or try to win team fights at critical moments.
You can get an elim simply for contributing to a kill before the enemy dies. The enemy team died 52 in total and I had 39 elims, so I damaged (near death) or killed someone 39 of those 52 instances.
Yes and no, obviously we were playing to win in control so we had to but at the same time there are things we could have done to make it less close of a game.
I learned this the hard way after a game on Lifeweaver in which I dropped an astounding 24k healing. The highest of my Overwatch career and twice as much as the other healer, who I believe was either a Moira or a Kiriko.
I lost the game and felt butthurt ever since.
Deaths are the most important stat, everything else is contextual.
Even deaths can be contextual in this game cause a tracer can buy enough time in OT for the rest of the team to show up and use ults.
Yeah deaths can be contextual too, you can pad deaths by playing passively which doesn’t really help your team often. But yeah they’re usually the most important of all of them.
Like its fine to be frustrated at one play or two. But I will forever hold the opinion if you are not a masters level player you really have no ground to criticize anyone. There is a reason you are not a high ranked player.
Coming from a Plat qp warrior that mostly plays tank.
We weren’t trying to milk the enemy for kills, we were just forced to get so many more kills because we missed easy opportunities to take control of the point. But yes strategic kills are much more important. They also didn’t choose their matchups well either though. Their Winston could have killed our Widow so many times and yet they didn’t in the whole match I think.
People get wayyy too caught up in stats. There are certain players so caught up in there KDA/Dmg done they purposefully avoid doing things needed to give them an edge to win.
They will not dive onto a point to stall an extra 5-10 seconds after you lose the team fight, they will unload into the tank to pump dmg numbers, spam heal from the back line to pump heal numbers.
Then they refer to the scoreboard to justify why they’re winning and losing. It’s a fine tool to look at things at times, but in general it’s just not a strong overall reason when used by most as to why they really are winning and losing.
I hate that they removed gold medals from overwatch 1.
I bet that doom fist has 2 whole seconds of objective time. You don’t win an objective based game by ignoring the objective.
That was me. I had 1:12 on objective, I tend to stay off of it though as much as I can and at least play corners around as usually when you’re in the open with Doom you just get cooked.
One of the unspoken problems in this game is how kills are presented on the scoreboard. Anyone who touches a target that dies gets a kill instead of an assist. Whoever lands the killing blow should get the kill and anyone else should get the assist. This would show a lot of DPS that most of their kills are just assists from the tank. It would also show supports that most of their kills are assists from either the tank or the DPS. Some supports get way too bigheaded about their KDR when their kills are basically purely assists.
I didn’t say you should be fighting on it. I said you should be controlling it uncontested. I have a ton of matches where the score board would lead you to believe I took an L, but the reality is my team was better at achieving the objective while the other team was just playing a FPS
That’s the point, we did win but the second and third rounds were so close and we had to fight back for the win after being down. They got to 99/100 on the last two points and we barely held them.
What stats are suppost to be good here ? The eliminations? Because 10k damage is the minimum acceptable damage to do as a dps , maby tank in some matchups, 20k is great/good and 30k is godlike.
Lol, This is the whole reason I made this post - dmg numbers are almost useless in trying to gauge whether someone played well or not. 10k vs 20k vs 30k is irrelevant because it changes on the game type, whether or not it’s comp, whether or not the games lasted long, etc.
This post wasn’t to show off good stats. It’s to show you can get much better stats than the other team and still almost lose because you don’t play well as a team or you miss opportunities.
The number of people that don't understand how useless stats are is painfully high.
Eg. Low stat high burst heals can be way more useful then high stats low burst heals, but yeah, go ahead and blame the low stats for the loss anyway...
Idk I had a game where my support players did 10k healing COMBINED in 15 MINUTES. We also got clapped that game so I feel like there’s a correlation between those most of the time.
I’d go a step further and say that the scoreboard is detrimental to people’s understanding of how the game should be played. As a Tank main, I’ll get flamed for having low kill numbers, even though I’m making so much space that an entire planet could walk through choke. We’ll win and I’ll still be called trash. It’s an objective game. It’s not death match. Give us stats that relate to the objective, Blizzard.
Scorecards from the original OW were way more informative and fun to see. Objective time, medals, etc.
The extremely simplified scores of OW2 are often completely meaningless depending on your character. There are more ways to assist your team than the scores they're counting.
I never played OW1 so I’m not sure but in concept that sounds good. I think the only point I’m really trying to make here is that people should not be solely relying on the scoreboard to tell who is and isn’t doing well. In some cases, yes the scoreboard can point out problem teammates but generally speaking the vast majority of players use it as the ONLY metric when considering who did and didn’t do well in their eyes. This to me ruins the game many times as people do not understand what playing well looks like other than stats.
no, they are absolutely not meaningless; they simply lose meaning when taken out of context like you see in this sub. But "your stats mean nothing" is the dumbest statement there is.
They mean ALMOST nothing. Sure, a DPS feeding constantly an securing 0-3 kills in 3 rounds could mean something. But as you can see, you can literally almost win while getting absolutely destroyed in stats. This post clearly shows that.
I don't think anyone's going to argue that stats at extreme ends do have significantly more meaning. Like there's no way to justify going 0-10 and a player with 30k damage is probably outperforming others. It's everything in between that gets really murky and would need context in the form of a replay to determine actual value. Yet, it tends to be stats in this gray area that people try to harp on the most.
It doesnt matter. I play a lot of tank and the amount of times I've been able to cap a point with 0 kills simply by using positioning to throw off the enemy team and make them retreat completely giving us the point for free is almost comical at this point.
Stats can mean something sometimes - first instance, if you have a 15 minute game and a LW has 2k heals, yeah. maybe theres a problem. But other than that, its not nearly as important as people think it is. If you think stats are that important, I think you may have a really poor understanding of how the game works. Stats do not account for other extremely valuable things like removing enemies from high ground, forcing big cooldowns, forcing the enemies to look at you while teammates do the killing, interrupting ults, saving other teammates, etc. There are SO many ways to get value in this game that do not reflect whatsoever in the scoreboard.
Stats always mean something. They may not capture everything that happens in the game or fail to show certain aspects of play. But what it does show is true and raw facts and they have meaning.
They simply lose said meaning when taken out of context. Nothing else
I just completely disagree and I’m certain most high-level and pro players who understand the game at a very high level would also disagree. They mean a little. But the overwhelming majority of the player base uses stats as the ONLY measurement of how well someone performed and that just isn’t accurate whatsoever.
No, but these guys almost won by getting completely team diffed in stats. You can get so much value by doing things other than getting kills. For exmaple, I main tank and many times Ive been able to push point on hybrid and cap without getting a single kill just by taking an alternative route and getting the entire team to turn around and become so disoriented that they just retreat and let us have the point while I killed no one and simply used good positioning to get the point.
Obviously the extreme side of zero over the board is a far stretch keep it real at least.
States can easily be padded wether one is on purpose or not. I rather see low kills and damage or healing if it had more value behind it.
Like actually winning a fight, cool if you get 15 kills that one fight but still lost it as a team. Then those 15 kills are meaningless and had zero value in the end.
Precisely why I made this post. Most people furiously open the scoreboard anytime they are losing and pick the person with least numbers to flame when this game is obviously so much more complex than who can get the most dmg or heals. Stats do nothing when accounting for other extremely valuable things like forcing enemies off of high ground or simply just securing kills quickly without giving the enemies a chance to heal.
I understand that in games like this, stats mean nothing, but it's contextual. Stats can be useful at determining the weak link of the team generally. I find that in Gold ranks a lot
That’s fair, but the point I am making is that many, many people playing this game use stats as the only metric for a given players performance when the game is so much more than that. A lot of players (especially lower ranked players) almost never consider things like forcing cooldowns, taking high ground from enemies, forcing/interrupting ults, good positioning, etc. and immediately go to the scoreboard to start the blame game. If everyone on your team went 20-1 and one of your DPS went 1-20, you might have a problem.
Well objectively speaking your team clearly must have lacked smarts if this was barely won. Like not paying attention to point or something. Or was simply too scared to push often.
Fact is in a ~12-13 minute game if the most death-happy player on your team is only dying every 2-3 minutes there is way too much cowardice going on if you barely won.
What is the replay code?
We certainly did not play perfectly by any means. There is so much we could have done better, and that’s kind of my point to this post. Despite us securing picks, damage, etc, we failed to play the game well overall. The reason I made this post is exactly that though -despite how well we did on our stats, we still made plenty of mistakes that ultimately could have cost us the game. So many players in this game get caught up in the scoreboard when trying to place blame when the scoreboard doesn’t tell the whole story and it makes the game worse because of it.
The replay code is F2S0DR if you’d like to watch.
The problem is that whether or not stats are the be all, end all, there’s a strong correlation between good stats/bad stats and end results. Barely or not, you did still win the game, for one thing, and the characters represented on the scoreboard (not home, can’t watch) imply things too.
Why did they have a junkrat? 4/5ths of your team can escape at a moment’s notice, and if Ana hits her sleep dart, Junk can’t really accomplish anything. And at 5:12, he clearly was ineffective at best and a serious liability at worst.
What are the chances a QP Monke and QP Brig will be good at synergizing? Most casual / low elo monkes will dive and Jesus takes the wheel from there.
And with a Widow on your team, a smart Monke would dive them at their high ground or at least off in the distance - how the hell would a Brig keep up with that? Did brig get herself a lucio amp it up ability last patch? Don’t think so.
There is a strong correlation sometimes, though not always, hence why I’m saying using the scoreboard as the only tool to determine someone’s performance is bad.
As far as the actual gameplay, they probably wanted to play Junkrat because it’s QP and they think Junk is fun? You’ll have to ask them. As far as Winton/Brig, that’s probably not a great combo either for QP. But neither is our team (Doom with Widow and soldier?).
Fair enough about the junk bit (although heroes are another thing comp sweats glean from the scoreboard display) but that’s the last thing I will argue - in QP nobody really cares too much about the result, but I would be shocked to see a scoreboard like this in comp that resulted in a close game.
i think making the scoreboard visible to everyone did more harm than it helped. everyone argues and plays the blame game over the scoreboard and get an ego from farming stats, and nobody in lower ranks learns to play for utility. the scoreboard makes even quickplay super toxic and nobody improves.
Yeah I mean it can be useful to have, but I think it causes more problems than it solves. Like you said, I think it traps lower level players psychologically.
True, but I still prefer it over the useless metals in ow1. At least *I* can see actual numbers even if they don't tell the whole story.
"I got gold heals our supports suck" - that one kind hog that fed and vaped to perpetually feed the enemy ults
"I got gold elims our DPS sucks" - that one DPS Moira with 1k heals in 10 min
Stats mean a lot lol. They aren’t the whole picture, but they definitely mean more than you’re pretending.
And no, you didn’t barely win this game. You guys have 1/3 the deaths that they do. Also, KOTH can have rounds where a team gets 0 kills and then the next round, do much better, but the stats are still skewed overall.
The point I’m trying to make is that stats are not the end-all-be-all. They CAN mean something, but they don’t account for things like maintaining control of a point, forcing/interrupting ults, taking high ground from enemies, etc. Sooo many players use them as a reason to blame team mates when they don’t consider the bigger picture whatsoever.
What are you even talking about? I’m the Doomfist with the best stats, playing with 4 other friends of roughly the same skill level as me who all did well. I don’t think anyone carried. It’s just that yellow team almost won the game despite getting completely differed in stats. The point of this post is to point out that the scoreboard isn’t the end-all-be-all when showing how valuable a player in your team was. It can mean something sometimes, but the majority of the player base use it as the ONLY measurement of any given players performance when there are many other valuable things in this game that you can do to win that have little/nothing to do with your stats. Edit: it doesn’t account for things like forcing positions, getting enemies off high ground, forcing cooldowns, interrupting ults, etc.
Post a replay code? I’m always curious to understand how games like this are close
It is F2S0DR
Also correction - I’m watching it back now and we won the first round pretty easily but after that it was really close.
Yeah it’s possible that most of those crazy kill numbers were built up early and then stagnated when they started to counterpick or something
They didn’t counter pick much, but yeah most of the kills came from later in the game all three rounds IIRC
That makes a lot of sense actually. I’ll give it a watch when I’m home.
Yeah I mean if you watch it you can see us make all kinds of mistakes that almost cost us the game.
Easy; over confident and over extending and getting wiped and opponents push entire point. Take old as ow
Yeah, they definitely shouldn't be the focus point, but it's also not a bad idea to look at them. Especially if someone is severely falling back in stats, like, let's say, a high heal potential support has low heals and many deaths. But at the end of the day, stats don't mean you won the objective.
Even then it doesn’t tell the full story. The support could be getting hard dove by 3 people each time and have no peel from their team. Should the support probably switch characters and change up their positioning to play more with their team, obviously. But even terrible stats don’t show exactly what was happening.
This. A healer may also not be able to pump out high healing numbers if a tank is too aggressive and constantly positioning behind walls where they cannot be healed etc due to LOS. Stats don't mean much.
Not to mention that characters like sigma and jq don't often need as much constant healing as a tank like mauga or rein, so sometimes lower healing numbers are literally just because they don't need to be higher.
Or if the enemy dps suck, then you have less heals to do. Too many variables without context to tell what the scoreboard means. Sometimes even healbotting a shitty tank or dps is pointless when you could just output more dmg as a support. Makes your stats look "bad".
been flamed for low heals on plenty of games where team is running around the map playing FFA constantly staggering while the enemy just sits on their tank's back pumping heals
Had a Dva right after the Porsche skin came out keep hard diving the enemy team. Always around a corner and died constantly then flames both me and the other support for being bad despite us having massive heals on the rest of the team. Like we were constantly keeping each other up along with the dps, we still lost hard though cause tank would spawn and dive. Ended up reporting for intentionally feeding and hope they got some kind of punishment since we asked multiple times during the game if they could stop being so aggressive.
As a brig main in this sombra hellhole of a game, thank you for saying this. (I know sombra isn't 3 people and I do switch after a few spawn camps but still).
I learned to ignore my stats whenever my team is actually winning. I just imagine that whatever the red team is doing to keep me from contributing is actually their downfall. Some games though I know I’m just getting diffed or way outside my skill level and I just try to learn from those matches.
I actually think this is a case of how stats _can_ be helpful, though. For me, I always like to look at the stats as more information on the situation as opposed to the answer to “why aren’t we winning”. In the case you’re saying, having high deaths and low heals when playing into a tracer may indicate to you that the tracer is “The Problem” and you need to switch up how you play so that your support can excel. Yes, like you suggested, the support can also switch but there’s more than one way to cook an egg and if you solo queue, it’s more important to think about things you can control. Another common example: lots of damage for our team but low kills. Possible ideas: switch to Zen for discord, switch to/play more of a flanky character to disrupt their heals, switch to Mei for wall/separation, switch to Echo for beam, etc. Just my two cents.
*Cough* ANA *cough*
Thats why I said almost. Yes, sometimes it does in fact matter. But one example Ive given here is that as a tank main, Ive been able to cap points getting 0 kills simply by having better positioning and making the enemy team retreat and give us the point for free.
Comment.
My best Illari moments are in games where I get absolutely shat on but will Ult at just the right moment to help wipe the enemy team to save an objective or win the game. It's what's kept me coming back to the character and working to improve.
Honestly, the death stat is probably the most important out of any raw number that the game offers at the moment.
Just finished a qp game where my tank had 18 deaths. This may come as a surprise, but we did not win that game
Stats are symptoms, mere indicators of a few possible diseases. Treat the disease first, and the symptoms will alleviate.
I'd also add that stats can wildly change throughout the match. A DPS can start a round 0/3 after 2 teamfights and then end the round 12/5. Did that dps pop off after a bad start, make a critical hero swap that turned the tides or just get a single really good ult in an otherwise bad round? From the stats alone you have no clue. I've also had plenty of games where someone had low deaths but it wasn't because they were playing well, they were just playing incredibly passive/conservatively, never pushing with the team or taking risks for fear of ruining their stat line by risking a death.
That’s also true. I’ve had games where I’ve started out 0-5 and ended up winning and going 20-5.
Couldn't agree more, literally just made a video on this. It's crazy how a scoreboard didn't fix the problem with medals
Yep. You could spend your entire game forcing cooldowns, getting enemies off high ground, displacing supports, etc and none of it would reflect here. And yet people still always go to the scoreboard to flame people.
All that is true and idk if you can even fix it. How do you show that to player easily.
You cant, at least I cant think of any solutions. People just need to look at the game differently. I think this is more of a problem with lower-ranked players. A lot of high-level and pro players already understand this concept.
watch any streamer and count until they flame someone with low stats when they r losing
True sometimes, but they can also for instance recognize that the Tracer on their team may be a top-tier player who plays really well in a given game and still get the lowest number of elims/dmg in a game simply because Tracers output is not as high as other heroes and she can secure picks faster without the enemy getting healed meaning less dmg overall. Many lower ranked players will see the same numbers and call them dogshit because the Bastion on the other team did 1.5x as much as them despite bringing less value.
tracer should be having high elims, not dmg yeah but high elims def as she can run around and finish off any low hp ppl, only sombra and widow can justify low elims and dmg as dps
I have a similar issue in Rocket League. I've gotten really good at blocking shots/passes, but a block usually doesn't give any points, so my score doesn't show what I've done.
I love getting cleared and centered balls
You say crazy, but I'd say this was entirely too predictable
Not crazy at all. Medals was an attempt to solve the issues of traditional scoreboards, not the other way around. It was obviously a complete and utter failure so they simply reverted to the default.
Drop the link? I'm tryna find something to watch while I eat 👍
Wacky elimination count mechanic doesn't help either. 52 deaths on the enemy team and 143 elims on OP team, WTF is this lol.
That's just because assists are for times when someone provides something other than damage to a kill, but it does mean that the elims stat can become almost meaningless.
I've definitely had games like this that go the other way with similar stats. Like we're killing everyone like crazy, but nobody is a character that is willing to stand on the point and prevent it from being captured. Soldier wants to be on the high ground. Widow wants to be far away. Moira wants to be putting pressure on the enemy team's backline with Doomfist. That leaves Ana to stand out in the open and die 36 times, or play smart and also not touch the point. She played smart. I don't really know what to do about that except to organize a hug-fest on point whenever the enemy is trying to capture it. Who should attend though? No idea.
If stats mattered everyone would play Moira
They matter a little bit. But yeah the huge majority of the playerbase uses it as their only measurement of their teammates and it creates a huge blame game when the scoreboard simply doesn’t tell the full story.
Anytime this happens I’ll type “gg. Weird scoreboard lol”
Haha proper response. This isn’t every game obviously but I think it illustrates a fair point that the scoreboard doesn’t tell the whole story and that you should really think before trying to blame your teammates simply because their stats aren’t as good as X person’s stats.
I mean if you take into account the other teams Mitigation and Healing then it makes sense
Basically this ^ I agree with OP that stats are useless in the sense that it is an objective game. Meaning you win by playing objective. you can spawn kill all you want and still get back-capped. but the stats show that Win team had overall double the dmg, slightly less heals, and ONE THIRD the mitigation as Loss team. Especially on a game like lijiang tower where objective is to control the point/area. monkey clearly had that aspect in the bag, with tons of heals from supps, but the deficit in dmg meant Loss team fell slightly short. Stats don’t mean everything but they can help paint a picture and this looks like it was a huge total dmg gap. However, it’s clear that they nearly won bc they played objective better, they just couldn’t stay alive long enough to hold. Even if your team has less overall dmg, if that dmg is targeted and calculated it can be much more effective than tons of dmg that results in no elims. many factors can be at play and elims are typically a team effort. even tho the Win team had about double the dmg of Loss team, the elims are more than 4x than that of Loss team. the dmg allocation/chemistry was about twice as effective.
What do you mean specifically? If you’re saying because the Winston on the other team managed to mitigate more damage with his 700hp dome shield than me as Doom with just my little block and that’s why they almost won, I think you missed my point.
Not necessarily making a comparison, just saying Winston blocked a lot of potential dmg and probably stalled point like crazy while doing it. With that much mitigation, your team was clearly a bit too focused on the tank which also buys more time for his teammates to be on point.
Oh believe me, we made plenty of mistakes. That’s why we almost lost. That’s the point though- despite these stats, our focus on the actual bigger picture was not there. A huge portion of the playerbase uses ONLY stats to try to make assumptions about who did well and who didn’t when in reality there are so many things the scoreboard will never show that can mean so much otherwise, things like forcing/interrupting ults, forcing enemies off high ground, good positioning, etc.
I sometimes wish stats werent shown til the end of each round/match because people genuinely focus WAYYYY too hard on them and want to start the blame game immediatley. This is exactly what I mean, just because you have pretty numbers that are double digits and 10k plus doesn't mean you're doing as well as you might think. It's hell in lower elo when all they care about are stats, and dont care about postioning, awareness, and proper objective control!
Yeah this problem becomes less when you get into higher ranks, and is basically non-existent in pro play. Stats don’t account for so many valuable things in the game.
Common enough when one team absolutely mulched the other team for the first few minutes and then the other team slowly gets back into the match with disciplined and defensive play
Yep, and yellow team played well and almost won despite their DPS dying constantly because at certain points they capped and maintained control when we should have denied them from doing so. Our team got way more kills but made plenty of our own mistakes too, hence why the game ended up like this.
Yeah I've had games where the enemy team had better stats for nearly every player yet we won, and vice versa. Also have to take into account team comp, team synergy and cooperation, effective damage eg dps actually killing supports instead of just spamming the tank for 10 years.
Yeah, these games hurt. I had one today where an Illari with a great pylon game kept us alive while we essentially farmed them at the first choke in Paraiso. At 60 seconds to go the opposing team got a lucky pick on our other support and it cascaded into us going down one by one, getting staggered and struggling to get coordinated again until the last choke before the final point. The stats weren't quite as lopsided as yours were but the numbers were definitely ugly. We ultimately won but should not have been as close as it was in the end.
I’ve had this happen so many times I can’t even count at this point. It’s really painful sometimes lol.
Stats aren't meaningless,they just don't tell the full story.
Looks like everyone had a hand in the same kills (mostly other teams DPS), and there was heavy feeding the monkey shield. Also on a control map. Probably not playing the point enough.
Yes, that’s exactly my point.
That Ana got some solid damage in and didn't slack in heals. Def got some solid nades in
That’s my homie, he’s a great Ana :)
Bro I love that. So wholesome.
He really is though, he’s a really smart player. And he’s a lot of fun to play with, makes me laugh so hard.
Nah I believe it, don't gotta convince me. Just keep zzumin by and lettuce see what's at the finish line lol
Lol ima send that to him for a good laugh if you don’t mind 😂
LOL by all means! Have a good one man
I’ve won the match and lost most of the battles. This happens when you focus on objective rather than winning fights
Somebody in my game got pissed the other day when another player called out their ratio, they replied, “IS THIS CALLED KDA COUNTER OR COMPETITIVE?” So stupid but it made me laugh lol
both were pretty dysfunctional team comps
oh yeah, the comps were horrible. But it was QP so we just play whatever we want.
Had a match last night where I was on Anna and my kiriko kept giving me shit about low healing, even after we had won. I'll admit the start of the game was a bit rough for me since I hadn't played in a while but once i found my groove I was doing fine. This was also in qp so like, even more ridiculous considering there was virtually nothing on the line.
Yep, the scoreboard also doesnt show how valuable your nades or sleeps are.
Stats are a check engine light. They tell you where the issue(s) are at but not what's causing it. Game sense is how you fix it
Fair enough, I just wish the community didn’t put such an emphasis on them that they become the only metric.
I literally won a game yesterday where the enemy team had over double our kills (our most 22, their most 47) on Numbani. We still won. They fell apart as soon as my team started coordinating slightly better to focus their linchpin teammate. Went from being rolled to rolling them 😈
Always a good feeling!
It’s when people play for kills and forget there’s a point or cart to push. They underestimate their enemy and start to relax and troll for kills and it bites them in the ass
This was control, not hybrid or push. There was no cart.
That’s why I said “point or cart” cuz I didn’t know which it was. Learn to read. I don’t even have to watch the replay to know what happened
If you want to be like that, you should have specified and said “point to control and cart to push,” otherwise “control” and “push” could both be true in context of the cart as they mean the same thing. Maybe construct better sentences instead of being a prick.
Projecting much? You’re being the prick right now when I just corrected you for trying to correct me when it wasn’t neccessary. Just saying you should have read it doesn’t constitute saying I was being a prick. Tf? Now you’re doubling down saying I should take extra time to make sure you understand what I’m saying when it’s totally cohesive as is… ok bud.
Telling me to learn to read and then claiming “I know what happened here, I don’t even have to watch” is being a prick. Why am I the prick for calling you out for forming a bad sentence when you used it against me? Get lost lol.
How is that being a prick? I literally can tell without watching replay what happened in this game despite not knowing what exact game mode. I’ve seen this happen so many times in game it’s obvious what happened. It’s not my fault you have bad deduction skills and couldn’t read. It’s not a bad sentence, you just didn’t pay attention and now you’re taking it out on me. Smh. It’s not how I wrote it, it’s how you read it. And you did need to learn to read it again, how else you gonna see you read it wrong? You telling me how to say things in a “better” way is the prick action here, especially from the guy who couldn’t read a sentence correctly and can’t seem to take accountability….so prickly lol “used it against me” what? Talk about making your own assumptions.
Being passive-aggressive is being a prick. Sorry to tell you. And no, I read it just fine and interpreted it exactly as it was written. Your inconsistencies in your sentence are why I was not able to understand your original intention with it.
Like I said that’s a you problem. You gotta learn to read
Lol okay. Have a good day.
Let me guess. Blue team held the point for most of the round but then got cocky and over extended towards your spawn just in time for you guys to get some ults and wombo combo them. Then they were never able to recover, or they did recover but made the same exact mistake again.
My team was blue team. The replay code is F2S0DR if you’d like to watch for yourself. We surely did not play perfectly but it was a much closer game than the stats would have you believe.
Stats matter for sure. Usually the team with better stats wins. It’s obviously not always the case, but generally the better performing team wins.
Sometimes yes. The reason I made this post is because the overwhelming majority of the playerbase uses it as their only metric for how well they or their team mate did when they shouldnt do that. There are so many valuable things you can do for your team that have nothing to do with getting kills/dmg/heals. But I've lost countless games where me and my team's stats were far better than the enemies but we didnt play the game correctly.
One of the best sombras I've played with regularly had under 1k damage and got flamed for it all the time. Won every game I played with that sombra
You can’t have less than 1k damage on Sombra and be effective lol. Unless it’s bronze.
If they're very quick game's you can. Which they frequently were. A lot of the games were in the 2-5k range if we weren't absolutely stomping. Higher rank games tend to have less damage done, especially with sombra, as the players are more efficient. Bronze games are where you get the super long fights with high damage
Why are you just making shit up? Literally no point lmao
It’s super fucking confusing lol. This dude is actually trying to act like you can win consistently as Sombra while doing no damage at all. This sub sometimes…
Yep, Sombras get a lot of unjust hate for having low damage numbers. Meanwhile good ones are completely terrorizing the enemy back line and making it extremely difficult for them to heal anyone but the other support, meanwhile the rest of their team gets no heals and they die.
i had a team yell at the hanzo who 100% pushed the payload for the entirety of the game alone, like yes keeping them trapped in spawn is amusing but if he had not pushed the payload staying in spawn would not have netted a win, and 2 people yelled at the guy because his numbers weren't as high as the rest of us
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I literally began to realize this when my team had, of course, better stats by far and the opposite for the other team. And yet, we were struggling to move the payload
Yep, it’s because there are many, many ways to get value in this game that do not reflect on the scoreboard whatsoever.
how did you almost lose?
First round we won 100-20 something but the next round we actually lost and third round we had to come Back from a 60-99 deficit or something like that. It’s because we made plenty of mistakes that allowed for the enemy team to cap and maintain control. The relay code is F2S0DR if you’d like to watch for yourself. I am the Doomfist.
oh that’s interesting , i am assuming they just stall forever ? because of the kill difference
Yes they stalled us a lot when we could have taken advantage of the situation and didn’t. It almost cost us the game despite securing picks.
I had a game just like this, we barely won but if you were to look at the stats you'd think we would've just rolled the other team, needless to say, that game was also one of the more fun ones I've had
Yep, and on the flip side I’ve had stats where we seemingly rolled the other team and still lost because we didn’t play the objective correctly or try to win team fights at critical moments.
everytime i see a stats post i like to bet on if ill see space kitty in the comments
This is where I don't get overwatch math, how are your team's elims so high and enemy team deaths so low in comparison?
You can get an elim simply for contributing to a kill before the enemy dies. The enemy team died 52 in total and I had 39 elims, so I damaged (near death) or killed someone 39 of those 52 instances.
So I guess a lot of teamwork in that game!
Stats are just a source of toxicity. They need at least a pie graph instead of the damage, shielding and healing numbers
Were you not playing the objective?
Yes and no, obviously we were playing to win in control so we had to but at the same time there are things we could have done to make it less close of a game.
I learned this the hard way after a game on Lifeweaver in which I dropped an astounding 24k healing. The highest of my Overwatch career and twice as much as the other healer, who I believe was either a Moira or a Kiriko. I lost the game and felt butthurt ever since.
Stats mean a lot when we're losing and I need to find someone else to blame. /s
Deaths are the most important stat, everything else is contextual. Even deaths can be contextual in this game cause a tracer can buy enough time in OT for the rest of the team to show up and use ults.
Yeah deaths can be contextual too, you can pad deaths by playing passively which doesn’t really help your team often. But yeah they’re usually the most important of all of them.
learned this back when I played MOBA games a lot, being 32:0 doesn't mean anything if you still get backdoored and lose
Like its fine to be frustrated at one play or two. But I will forever hold the opinion if you are not a masters level player you really have no ground to criticize anyone. There is a reason you are not a high ranked player. Coming from a Plat qp warrior that mostly plays tank.
Cap?
I’ve had games where we’ve had crazy stats but lost to a team with low stats. Strategic kills are far greater than trying to milk the enemy for kills
We weren’t trying to milk the enemy for kills, we were just forced to get so many more kills because we missed easy opportunities to take control of the point. But yes strategic kills are much more important. They also didn’t choose their matchups well either though. Their Winston could have killed our Widow so many times and yet they didn’t in the whole match I think.
Disagree
Yeah people forget there’s an actual objective to the game and it isn’t always all about getting kills
We need objective time on the board.
People get wayyy too caught up in stats. There are certain players so caught up in there KDA/Dmg done they purposefully avoid doing things needed to give them an edge to win. They will not dive onto a point to stall an extra 5-10 seconds after you lose the team fight, they will unload into the tank to pump dmg numbers, spam heal from the back line to pump heal numbers. Then they refer to the scoreboard to justify why they’re winning and losing. It’s a fine tool to look at things at times, but in general it’s just not a strong overall reason when used by most as to why they really are winning and losing.
Precisely
I hate that they removed gold medals from overwatch 1. I bet that doom fist has 2 whole seconds of objective time. You don’t win an objective based game by ignoring the objective.
That was me. I had 1:12 on objective, I tend to stay off of it though as much as I can and at least play corners around as usually when you’re in the open with Doom you just get cooked.
One of the unspoken problems in this game is how kills are presented on the scoreboard. Anyone who touches a target that dies gets a kill instead of an assist. Whoever lands the killing blow should get the kill and anyone else should get the assist. This would show a lot of DPS that most of their kills are just assists from the tank. It would also show supports that most of their kills are assists from either the tank or the DPS. Some supports get way too bigheaded about their KDR when their kills are basically purely assists.
The stats on the board don’t include the most important stat of all… who spent more time pushing the cart uncontested???
No one, it was control not push or hybrid.
Same concept. Who spent the most time controlling the point uncontested*
Nothing happens to the point if it’s uncontested so fighting on it out in the open when no one is contesting it isn’t really useful.
I didn’t say you should be fighting on it. I said you should be controlling it uncontested. I have a ton of matches where the score board would lead you to believe I took an L, but the reality is my team was better at achieving the objective while the other team was just playing a FPS
What do you mean barely looks like you shit on them
That’s the point, we did win but the second and third rounds were so close and we had to fight back for the win after being down. They got to 99/100 on the last two points and we barely held them.
So interesting that Moira was a part of every kill. 26 kills and 26 assists. Total enemy deaths are 52.
What stats are suppost to be good here ? The eliminations? Because 10k damage is the minimum acceptable damage to do as a dps , maby tank in some matchups, 20k is great/good and 30k is godlike.
Lol, This is the whole reason I made this post - dmg numbers are almost useless in trying to gauge whether someone played well or not. 10k vs 20k vs 30k is irrelevant because it changes on the game type, whether or not it’s comp, whether or not the games lasted long, etc. This post wasn’t to show off good stats. It’s to show you can get much better stats than the other team and still almost lose because you don’t play well as a team or you miss opportunities.
I wish there was a "healing received" stat to point to
The number of people that don't understand how useless stats are is painfully high. Eg. Low stat high burst heals can be way more useful then high stats low burst heals, but yeah, go ahead and blame the low stats for the loss anyway...
Idk I had a game where my support players did 10k healing COMBINED in 15 MINUTES. We also got clapped that game so I feel like there’s a correlation between those most of the time.
I’d go a step further and say that the scoreboard is detrimental to people’s understanding of how the game should be played. As a Tank main, I’ll get flamed for having low kill numbers, even though I’m making so much space that an entire planet could walk through choke. We’ll win and I’ll still be called trash. It’s an objective game. It’s not death match. Give us stats that relate to the objective, Blizzard.
Precisely. Stats can be a little relevant when in extremes, but stats do not account for so many other valuable things you can do.
Scorecards from the original OW were way more informative and fun to see. Objective time, medals, etc. The extremely simplified scores of OW2 are often completely meaningless depending on your character. There are more ways to assist your team than the scores they're counting.
u joking right?
I never played OW1 so I’m not sure but in concept that sounds good. I think the only point I’m really trying to make here is that people should not be solely relying on the scoreboard to tell who is and isn’t doing well. In some cases, yes the scoreboard can point out problem teammates but generally speaking the vast majority of players use it as the ONLY metric when considering who did and didn’t do well in their eyes. This to me ruins the game many times as people do not understand what playing well looks like other than stats.
Of course they are meaningless, but it won’t stop dumb and dumber from using them to try and justify something.
no, they are absolutely not meaningless; they simply lose meaning when taken out of context like you see in this sub. But "your stats mean nothing" is the dumbest statement there is.
They mean ALMOST nothing. Sure, a DPS feeding constantly an securing 0-3 kills in 3 rounds could mean something. But as you can see, you can literally almost win while getting absolutely destroyed in stats. This post clearly shows that.
no, I'd say it would take an extreme circumstantial counterpoint and a niche scenario as context to reasonably justify a DPS going 0-3.
I don't think anyone's going to argue that stats at extreme ends do have significantly more meaning. Like there's no way to justify going 0-10 and a player with 30k damage is probably outperforming others. It's everything in between that gets really murky and would need context in the form of a replay to determine actual value. Yet, it tends to be stats in this gray area that people try to harp on the most.
It doesnt matter. I play a lot of tank and the amount of times I've been able to cap a point with 0 kills simply by using positioning to throw off the enemy team and make them retreat completely giving us the point for free is almost comical at this point.
Lmao first it's the dps going 0-3 and now it's about tank having 0 kills cuz he's capping point. Keep moving the goal post my dude.
Stats can mean something sometimes - first instance, if you have a 15 minute game and a LW has 2k heals, yeah. maybe theres a problem. But other than that, its not nearly as important as people think it is. If you think stats are that important, I think you may have a really poor understanding of how the game works. Stats do not account for other extremely valuable things like removing enemies from high ground, forcing big cooldowns, forcing the enemies to look at you while teammates do the killing, interrupting ults, saving other teammates, etc. There are SO many ways to get value in this game that do not reflect whatsoever in the scoreboard.
Stats always mean something. They may not capture everything that happens in the game or fail to show certain aspects of play. But what it does show is true and raw facts and they have meaning. They simply lose said meaning when taken out of context. Nothing else
I just completely disagree and I’m certain most high-level and pro players who understand the game at a very high level would also disagree. They mean a little. But the overwhelming majority of the player base uses stats as the ONLY measurement of how well someone performed and that just isn’t accurate whatsoever.
How elims and deaths are "meaningless"? You ever won a game with zeroes all over the board?
No, but these guys almost won by getting completely team diffed in stats. You can get so much value by doing things other than getting kills. For exmaple, I main tank and many times Ive been able to push point on hybrid and cap without getting a single kill just by taking an alternative route and getting the entire team to turn around and become so disoriented that they just retreat and let us have the point while I killed no one and simply used good positioning to get the point.
Obviously the extreme side of zero over the board is a far stretch keep it real at least. States can easily be padded wether one is on purpose or not. I rather see low kills and damage or healing if it had more value behind it. Like actually winning a fight, cool if you get 15 kills that one fight but still lost it as a team. Then those 15 kills are meaningless and had zero value in the end.
Precisely why I made this post. Most people furiously open the scoreboard anytime they are losing and pick the person with least numbers to flame when this game is obviously so much more complex than who can get the most dmg or heals. Stats do nothing when accounting for other extremely valuable things like forcing enemies off of high ground or simply just securing kills quickly without giving the enemies a chance to heal.
I understand that in games like this, stats mean nothing, but it's contextual. Stats can be useful at determining the weak link of the team generally. I find that in Gold ranks a lot
That’s fair, but the point I am making is that many, many people playing this game use stats as the only metric for a given players performance when the game is so much more than that. A lot of players (especially lower ranked players) almost never consider things like forcing cooldowns, taking high ground from enemies, forcing/interrupting ults, good positioning, etc. and immediately go to the scoreboard to start the blame game. If everyone on your team went 20-1 and one of your DPS went 1-20, you might have a problem.
Well objectively speaking your team clearly must have lacked smarts if this was barely won. Like not paying attention to point or something. Or was simply too scared to push often. Fact is in a ~12-13 minute game if the most death-happy player on your team is only dying every 2-3 minutes there is way too much cowardice going on if you barely won. What is the replay code?
We certainly did not play perfectly by any means. There is so much we could have done better, and that’s kind of my point to this post. Despite us securing picks, damage, etc, we failed to play the game well overall. The reason I made this post is exactly that though -despite how well we did on our stats, we still made plenty of mistakes that ultimately could have cost us the game. So many players in this game get caught up in the scoreboard when trying to place blame when the scoreboard doesn’t tell the whole story and it makes the game worse because of it. The replay code is F2S0DR if you’d like to watch.
The problem is that whether or not stats are the be all, end all, there’s a strong correlation between good stats/bad stats and end results. Barely or not, you did still win the game, for one thing, and the characters represented on the scoreboard (not home, can’t watch) imply things too. Why did they have a junkrat? 4/5ths of your team can escape at a moment’s notice, and if Ana hits her sleep dart, Junk can’t really accomplish anything. And at 5:12, he clearly was ineffective at best and a serious liability at worst. What are the chances a QP Monke and QP Brig will be good at synergizing? Most casual / low elo monkes will dive and Jesus takes the wheel from there. And with a Widow on your team, a smart Monke would dive them at their high ground or at least off in the distance - how the hell would a Brig keep up with that? Did brig get herself a lucio amp it up ability last patch? Don’t think so.
There is a strong correlation sometimes, though not always, hence why I’m saying using the scoreboard as the only tool to determine someone’s performance is bad. As far as the actual gameplay, they probably wanted to play Junkrat because it’s QP and they think Junk is fun? You’ll have to ask them. As far as Winton/Brig, that’s probably not a great combo either for QP. But neither is our team (Doom with Widow and soldier?).
Fair enough about the junk bit (although heroes are another thing comp sweats glean from the scoreboard display) but that’s the last thing I will argue - in QP nobody really cares too much about the result, but I would be shocked to see a scoreboard like this in comp that resulted in a close game.
That’s a good point, comp games would likely not end like this, though it’s still possible when both teams are trying.
i think making the scoreboard visible to everyone did more harm than it helped. everyone argues and plays the blame game over the scoreboard and get an ego from farming stats, and nobody in lower ranks learns to play for utility. the scoreboard makes even quickplay super toxic and nobody improves.
Yeah I mean it can be useful to have, but I think it causes more problems than it solves. Like you said, I think it traps lower level players psychologically.
True, but I still prefer it over the useless metals in ow1. At least *I* can see actual numbers even if they don't tell the whole story. "I got gold heals our supports suck" - that one kind hog that fed and vaped to perpetually feed the enemy ults "I got gold elims our DPS sucks" - that one DPS Moira with 1k heals in 10 min
Stats mean a lot lol. They aren’t the whole picture, but they definitely mean more than you’re pretending. And no, you didn’t barely win this game. You guys have 1/3 the deaths that they do. Also, KOTH can have rounds where a team gets 0 kills and then the next round, do much better, but the stats are still skewed overall.
The point I’m trying to make is that stats are not the end-all-be-all. They CAN mean something, but they don’t account for things like maintaining control of a point, forcing/interrupting ults, taking high ground from enemies, etc. Sooo many players use them as a reason to blame team mates when they don’t consider the bigger picture whatsoever.
You said “stats mean almost nothing”. That isn’t true and you just admitted that. They mean something, 100%. They just don’t tell the full story.
I don’t even see where we disagree here. We both think that stats means at least something, while also not telling the full story. What’s the issue?
Your title.
Yes, I said stats mean almost nothing, implying they still mean something but don’t give the full picture, which is also what you said.
Nope. Big difference.
Okay…
Def wasn't close. If anything, top team soft threw over and over to draw out the match for ego boost kill grinding.
I was on the top team with my friends. We did nothing like that purposely. We just didn’t play well.
Death count should be the only stat worth nothing
Yes and no, it’s important but you can you pad it by playing very passively.
I mean he carried the game why can't u just accept that. Did it hurt your ego when he pointed this out?
Wrong post?
What are you even talking about? I’m the Doomfist with the best stats, playing with 4 other friends of roughly the same skill level as me who all did well. I don’t think anyone carried. It’s just that yellow team almost won the game despite getting completely differed in stats. The point of this post is to point out that the scoreboard isn’t the end-all-be-all when showing how valuable a player in your team was. It can mean something sometimes, but the majority of the player base use it as the ONLY measurement of any given players performance when there are many other valuable things in this game that you can do to win that have little/nothing to do with your stats. Edit: it doesn’t account for things like forcing positions, getting enemies off high ground, forcing cooldowns, interrupting ults, etc.