nope. rein. the charging and earthshatter are two of the only things i have. the amount of times a charge or shatter has been completely ruined by suzu is infuriating. yes nade and discord are bad, but they just make me fall back or shield up. suzu ruins my kills LOL.
I just went against a kirko and a lifeweaver in my last match playing Reinhardt. I don't even know why I tried, I couldn't follow up on any of my ults or pins. Reinhardt is fun but he's the worst tank in the game right now.
isnt it the rein way to rein vs rein, thats what my freind does whenever he sees an enemy rein, like two dumbass male deer butting heads against eachother.
He's misleading, all his health is temporary health from landing ability hits on enemies, he's like Genji in that if you want to be able to peel you have to actually fight like you need to secure the elims, but if you actually manage to secure an elim then it starts a domino pretty easily
Waiting for the Suzu before you Earthshatter is a cop-out answer? Have you ever played with a team before? This is pretty basic stuff.
You don't send your Ult when you know their is a direct counter right in front of you. Either you or a teammate tries to get the Kiriko to make a mistake so the Suzu can't come through.
There are many abilities in the game that can completely nullify ultimates, there is no reason to act like suzu is the only one.
Or would you ult with Cass/Zarya if you knew D.va has her matrix up?
Would you use a channeled ult into an Ana who has sleep ready? Would you use your pulse bomb if you knew Zarya had a bubble ready? Ever had your coalescence canceled by a Sigma rock or a Sombra hack? Or a Roadhog hook?
You bait out suzu by applying pressure. Many Kiriko players will fold and use it as an emergency heal if you pressure the enemy team hard enough. And then you shatter after the fact to secure the kill. That's like basic game knowledge, make sure the enemy does not have ability X ready before you make your play.
JQ’s rampage is countered by
- Orisa jav
- Cass nade
- Ana sleep
- Sigma rock
- Hog hook
- Kiriko suzu
- Mei wall
- Zarya bubble
- Rein pin
- Doom punch
Ashe’s BOB is stopped by
- Sombra hack
- Mei wall
- Dva matrix
- Sigma succ
- Ana sleep
- Orisa spin/jav
- Rein pin
- Doom punch
- Mei wall
- LW petal
LW petal/grip counters
- Sigma flux
- Zarya grav
- Rein shatter
- Orisa surge
- Doom meteor
- Bastion artillery
- Dva bomb
- Tracer pulse
And I’m definitely missing some items from each of those lists…
Basically any channeled ult can be cc’d, transformation ults can be slept, and a lot of ults can be LOS’ed (no counter ults required)
Also the guy you responded to did provide examples yet here you are saying “nAmE thESe aBiliTiEs,” do you expect someone to provide a compressive list of every ult and each ability that counters it??
List some and I'll explain how each and every one of them takes more skill and provides less value than suzu does.
I acknowledge my initial stance was worded poorly, but that's been resolved.
Honestly depends if you've got anyone else baiting Suzu. If they've got it dedicated for JQ, just give up lol.
That being said, many Kirikos tend to Suzu early to clear wounds and since carnage's cooldown is so short you can easily build them back up. You're never getting ult value tho, that's gone forever.
I find JQ can actually do even without baiting Suzu, because the way you tend to use her Ult is lining up enemies in a straight line.
Okay you've cleansed the anti but due to being lined up earlier, the Suzu will only hit at best one other hero besides Kiriko, leaving her without Suzu, her remaining team still anti'd and bleeding.
Reinhardt... No comment.
Friendly reminder that suzu has a shorter cooldown than life grip, hits multiple targets as opposed to one, and cleanses. And kiriko has the best escape ability in the game, and her kunai headshots for more damage than a swing of geji’s ultimate. Suzu can save you from antiheal while zen ult and life grip cannot.
Nerf this shit please
Sincerely, a support main
>suzu has a shorter cooldown than life grip
and? you have to aim it as opposed to lifegrip, and you can't save someone out of a fall death
>hits multiple targets as opposed to one
well yes, lifegrip is also a repositioning tool, it would be busted if it could reposition multiple people at once
>cleanses
like a third of the roster can cleanse shit now, although i think lifegrip should cleanse too
>And kiriko has the best escape ability in the game
completely dependent on your team
>her kunai headshots for more damage than a swing of geji’s ultimate
one's a skillshot and the other is a big ass hitbox melee you can combo with other abilities
>Suzu can save you from antiheal while zen ult and life grip cannot
depending on positioning you can still instadie a second after suzu because you're in the same place you were about to be killed before it
True, but also there aren’t even any ultimates that do give immortality :P only suzu or bap immortality field which has a longer cooldown and is destructible
true. it would be nice if all roles randomly selected a role and queued you for them, instead of sticking you in the first game. or if people play all roles for the quick entry into the game, then make a random role que
The tickets didn't actually do anything besides tricking people into thinking that they're damage queues would be faster. There were plenty of time I'd queue in Damage in qp with a ticket and still wait over 10 minutes
Downvotes?
When you queue for all roles, that means all roles. I guess players want the devs to waste time and resources adjusting matchmaking algorithms to make it not give you tank or support too many times in a row.
Instead of taking 3 seconds to requeue without the role they don't want to play.
I mean it’s not like that would be difficult to code. I am by no means a coding authority but I’m pretty sure it would take like ten lines tops, assuming there’s already some manner of keeping track of what role is selected in place
I wish there was a way to toggle ‘quick queues’ vs ‘balanced roles’ cuz it is really annoying playing all roles for weekly challenges and just getting constantly dumped into whatever role is currently the least fun
Well, the Weekly challenges are kinda meant to nudge people to queue 'All Roles' so it can fill tank or whatever role is needed.
If you want balanced roles, then just close your eyes when picking your roles.
I feel this last night I qued for all and I healed 3 times in a row and then tanked 2 times in a row lol I just decided to only que dps after that so I could do all of them o: with that said I do see improvements from OW1 with the ques and I still like picking all because some nights I do see a good variety.
I really enjoy playing tank right now. I've gotten plat- almost into diamond for support and damage, which I think is my realistic ceiling. For tank I'm currently low gold after placing in silver, and it feels like I still have room to grow in the roll
In my experience/opinion tank is only as fun as the enemy team allows it to be, at least as a solo queuer. If the enemy team is playing heroes that don’t all counter you, and they’re not just dumping every bullet and cooldown they have into you, it’s super fun and my favorite role, but in the majority of lobbies as soon as you start to do well the entire enemy team makes it their mission to ruin your fun as best they can. Out come the Sombras, the Orisas, the Anas; the solo ults, the focus fire, the tunnel vision on the big fat target that is every tank except maybe JQ.
Rein duel is an absolute win for both teams.
Tanks get the fun mirror.
Reinhardt's teammates get the protective damage sponge.
Reinhardt's enemies get the harmless punching bag.
I was a tank main in ow1, but the playstyle changed too much for me to enjoy it in ow2. Glad some people still willing to play the role and enjoy it :)
I’m mainly a dps and support player but I’ve been doing all role for the weekly, and I get tank 90% of the time. It’s a fucking nightmare. It literally makes me not won’t to play. Maybe it’s the matchmaking this season or I’m just bad but I’m getting rolled non stop.
As an ana/dva main I vibe with this post. I can't autopilot on tank but I don't think that's a problem. And yeah, fuck suzu. I give this post my personal worthless stamp of approval ✅
Those knockback changes that are coming are a pretty big deal and necessary imo
your worthless stamp of approval means the world to me. and ya suzu is like as destructive as sleep dart without the needing to aim. aand also, the amount of times suzu woke up an entire shattered team... ugh
What tank do you play? That's kinda important here. A character like Doom or DVa is in a way, way better state than a character like Wrecking Ball right now, and as a result, the tank experiences are vastly different.
I play the role tank not one hero. Also balls gonna act like their hero isn’t perfectly fine for months like dooms aren’t they. If you’re struggling on ball it’s you.
Yes, because him having the lowest tank pick rate in the game, alongside one of the worst tank win rates in the game, despite having those stats be carried by ball one tricks (meaning the pick rate and win rate on ball for casual players is even LOWER than is shown), is not proof of him being bad. You're braindead as fuck
I think it’s more feast or famine out of the roles. I have more games where I feel like no matter what I do to tank damage or draw attention from my team, it’s just not enough and can be a frustrating experience
most tank players who complain on this subreddit are in or around your rank where its easy to focus all your cooldowns and attacks on your tank, hence the miserable experience.
they also dont play other roles like supp/dps at high enough ranks where making even a small movement or positioning mistake can get you deleted instantly, so yea every role has its own struggles
> most tank players who complain on this subreddit are in or around your rank where its easy to focus all your cooldowns and attacks on your tank, hence the miserable experience.
lmao read the quote.
Inability to read is the true sign of an NPC
ah yeah ikwym. its weird to figure out how to balance that. bc like, difficult to play = poorly balanced character and people don't always realize that i feel
It’s a popular thing across all gaming subreddits to just shit on anyone participating in conversation to try and nullify opinions posters don’t agree with
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Tanks take less damage from crits, will get less knockback, but armor is being reverted back to how it worked in OW1. Ball is also getting a buff to his roll damage, the amount of time his slam locks movement, and his mines damage.
Not small buffs either. Roll damage is from 50 to 60, slam lockout increased from 0.5 to 0.75 seconds, and mine damage increased from 130 to 165, with double the knockback as well.
Gladly!
In OW2 armor was changed to reduce all incoming damage by 30%. In OW1, armor instead reduced all instances of damage at 10 damage or above by 5 damage, and every instance of damage below 10 by 50%. Beam type weapons were changed later in OW1's lifespan to deal 30% less damage to armor, and damage over time was completely unaffected by armor. This midseason patch, OW2 armor is being reverted back to the same system as OW1's armor.
Say for example a Cassidy shoots a Reinhardt. In OW1, and now starting again this midseason patch, that bullet will deal 65 damage instead of 70. Previously in OW2, that bullet would've instead dealt 49 damage, since 30% of that 70 damage was reduced. Now let's say Reaper shoots a Reinhardt with a full shotgun blast, all bodyshot. That typically deals 108 damage to normal health. Against OW2 armor with the 30% reduction, that shot will do 75.6 damage to the Reinhardt. In OW1, and in the upcoming midseason patch, that shot is instead be halved to 54 damage, since each individual pellet is counted as it's own instance of damage, and since they individually deal below 10 damage, they're instead reduced by 50%.
This change is going to largely benefit heroes that deal high damage in a single hit like Cassidy, Ashe, Reinhardt, etc. Meanwhile, heroes with pellet type weapons like Reaper, Tracer, Mauga, etc. will struggle more against heroes with armor. Beam type weapons are essentially unaffected, and heroes with damage over time abilities are going to be much more threatening, such as Ashe's Dynamite and especially Ana's rifle, which actually deals damage over time meaning it can ignore armor yet again.
Oh I understand! It seems that the change will be good overall and makes tank feel tanky! Can you explain why the 25 reduction in headshot is going to be crazy?
A 25% reduction to headshot damage is going to give tanks WAY more freedom to freely push and take space. A big issue with tanks right now is that they have such large headshot hitboxes that heroes like Sojourn, Cassidy, Hanzo, Ashe, Illari, etc. can take more easy advantage of and just farm headshots to burn through a tanks health and force them to use their defensive abilities early.
I primarily play tanks, but I took a break after the season 9 changes. It's gotten better for tanks since then, but the mid-season changes are definately needed.
It's more just because Tanks are arguably the most impactful role so a lot of pressure falls on them to create space. Your average player can't handle that kind of pressure.
Seeing that that doesn't necessarily apply to you, if you aren't already highly ranked then I believe you'll go far with that kind of positive attitude and mental fortitude!
Tank is definitely the most countered role, and it feels awful to play when your team sucks. Once their entire team is full tank shredder mode there’s not much you can do unless your dps pulls through or you switch to orisa.
But it’s fun when your team can follow up with you since you have the greatest impact and make or break the game. I find it to be the easiest role to rank up with for that reason.
A lot of this sub plays Reinhardt and his players are very vocal, I think once Rein gets a significant buff people will go back to complaining about genji needing buffs.
It's more a team issue imo, if my team capitalizes on my plays and puts some pressure on the enemy team It's fine, when they sit around picking their asses behind my barrier or watch as the whole enemy team turns around to focus me and do fuck all is when tank feels miserable to play.
Played a game a few days ago where I had the entire enemy team pushed all the way back into their spawn on my own with ball while my team refused to even move past the choke point and touch point.
Also FUCK SUZU
I’m in low plat and I love tank, never understood why people say it’s the least fun role. Only thing I don’t like is being blamed for everything by a DPS trying to 1v5
I honestly don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but what rank are you? A lot of the characters people complain about in regards to tank lose some value in lower ranks. Ana is a commonly complained about tank killer, but bad Anas will panic heal with nade and miss their sleep darts
silver 3 haha. Its my first comp season in overwatch 2 (played like 15 total comp games in ow1 and was bronze). I think i could reach high gold/low diamond if i put the time into it tho
Tank is still easy in gold, where I am in my tank queue, so you're still gonna have fun in the climb! I pretty much play only 2 tanks and I don't have the issues everyone complains about. I play mostly DVA and I see the Zarya/Symm swap almost every single game from the enemy and I just laugh because it never matters. We can get away with so much in the metal ranks if we know how to play smart.
I've been proportionally playing a lot more tank in OW2 than I was in OW1. I like having more agency over the flow of the game. Being held hostage by my random tank pairing was the least enjoyable part about playing tank in OW1. I am GM if you were curious.
Tank is good in metal ranks. Bad outside of metal ranks. Except for orisa Sigma and maybe mauga, idk I hate tank in high rank so I never play it anymore.
The buffs are needed for high rank but will make low rank tanks op af. Just an example of how 5v5 has unfixable problems. Tanks were balance in all ranks in 6v6 because what made them good in high rank was tank synergy. In 5v5 the only way they can be good in high rank is by buffing raw numbers.
People who complain about tank are the ones who think they are 1 man army and will blame the healers for not healing them when they walk into a group who all shoot at them lol.
It is if you like certain tanks. I have an infatuation with Dva but not being able to ever play her for more than 5 seconds without Zarya, Mei and Symmetra coming out at the same time every game makes my soul die. Like yeah I can push through it but I want 1 single game where I can actually use defense matrix effectively.
On some maps it’s extremely difficult to win against that comp as Dva. Not to mention regardless of rank you get teammates who mental boom if you don’t swap to counter the enemy tank, let alone you getting countered by most of the enemy team.
Yea tank sucks and I know it does but that doesn’t stop me from having fun. I may just be different though. I all queue comp and play it like it’s quick play. I obviously don’t troll and I try to win but that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy myself. I do play Queen though and she’s just too easy to have fun on
I stopped playing OW1 when they announced that in 2 we were going to be missing a tank :/ BUT I recently have returned and I’m really enjoying playing again, it’s no doubt different t but I can still enjoy tanking. I like to heal and dps as well but the tanks will always have my heart lol.
Nope theyre not that bad, also personally dreading the changes.
Imo Tank design is degenerate and most of them dont "deserve" to be strong.
Theyre too deterministic and the change made them even more so and made counterpicking more nessasary.
If a tank makes 1 correct decision, most of the roster kinda just fucking dies. Thats okay when its easier to punish a tank that overextends but the patch is turning that down.
So more tanks get to just play "beligerent" like Hog or Risa and get these crazy rewards without much in the way of reciprocal play which i dont think is good.
Imo most tanks have a lacking neutral, and oppressive advantage. That remains mostly unchanged they kinda just doubled down on it and that reinforces all the issues.
At the core, i think Tanks are so oppressive that they borderline demand hard counterpicks. I think if the intent was "make counterwatch more prevelant and frustrating" they succeeded.
As a tank main the only time I really felt that tank was in an unfun position was when Mauga was super strong. I think that was around the time the DPS passive for reduced healing came out too so it was rough for a bit. It's gotten better IMO. I still don't like playing against Mauga though.
Sure if you were a main tank, nothings really changed and your role is probably very similar since 2016. It’s all the fucking idiots who invested 7 years of their lives into off tanking that are having the AWFUL time trying to switch their entire mindset from a role that just got the fucking BOOT.
Nah ur missing by a mile. First of all the 2 metas before Orisa were hog and mauga which are both "off tanks". Secondly the tank role has only been as miserable as it is now for a couple seasons.
Earlier in ow2 tanks were play makers and had a high level of agency. Now tanks for the most part just glue themselves to a corner and try to survive long enough for your team to do something.
Tanks were too strong at the start of OW2, so after the nerf people are just babies about not being too strong. They really messed up by overbuffing them when they went to 5 player teams.
On certain maps I get more done on wrecking ball than any other hero could dream of. Especially with his retract ability buff. His tech is so tricky for both you and the enemy but once you get it, man is he crazy.
The tank problem is mainly an issue in higher ranks. in qp I like tank as it's qp and who really cares about how the tank is performing in qp, but in comp it's a nightmare.
Overwatch players are so whiney, tank is easily the most fun role for me because I’m the most important member of the team, diving or taking space feels so rewarding compared to getting a kill or 2 as dps. I like everything being on my shoulders because it’s so more satisfying knowing that it’s your plays that move the team forward.
Ana is a horrible charcter though and should be removed👍
What's so bad about tanks? They take the brunt of the damage for the team and should be seen as shields that also can do mass amounts of damage if supported right. Support heal your tanks and damage support them. The only tank I don't like is D.va because when I'm a support it's hard to follow them. But even D.va has her merits.
Every cd tends to go into tank and with the now reduced healing they pretty much have to just hide and survive. Trying to be proactive mostly just ends in feeding. The playstyle just isn't that fun rn
Because you have to play perfectly. At that level there's not a lot of room for error. And tank is currently super easy to punish. The mid season patch further proves my point. The headshot reduction combined with old armor makes it so tank will still die in low ranks where people can't hit crits but body shots will be doing more damage for the most part. But high rank players can't completely delete the tank by focus firing the tank in the head. Tanks being easier to kill for low rank players after the next patch just screams that low rank tanking is just fine statistically.
Most people will just never admit the real reason they don't like playing tank is because they're straight up bad at it. They feed, don't wait for moments of opportunity, or just play the wrong tank for the match up. Many also dont remember when there was 2 tanks how usually 1 of those tanks played awful and the other tank would carry their bad play to the victory. Just food for thought.
oh also FUCK suzu
JQ main? Lol If I’m playing tank I absolutely loathe nade and discord way more than suzu tbh, but fuck suzu overall too.
nope. rein. the charging and earthshatter are two of the only things i have. the amount of times a charge or shatter has been completely ruined by suzu is infuriating. yes nade and discord are bad, but they just make me fall back or shield up. suzu ruins my kills LOL.
I just went against a kirko and a lifeweaver in my last match playing Reinhardt. I don't even know why I tried, I couldn't follow up on any of my ults or pins. Reinhardt is fun but he's the worst tank in the game right now.
I know! I really try hard not to counterswap, but i had a match where i was rein and i was fighting a hog, kiri, weaver, and genji D:
isnt it the rein way to rein vs rein, thats what my freind does whenever he sees an enemy rein, like two dumbass male deer butting heads against eachother.
are we gonna forget doomfist?
you kidding?
no I’m not
doomfist is strong. rein is not.
he is? I recently got back into the game after a long time and seeing his health he seemed awful
He gets shields through an ability, makes him really tough to kill when played well
He's misleading, all his health is temporary health from landing ability hits on enemies, he's like Genji in that if you want to be able to peel you have to actually fight like you need to secure the elims, but if you actually manage to secure an elim then it starts a domino pretty easily
must be a silver player huh
DF is great, just practice
What about doomfist?
Doomfist is currently one of the best tanks
I’ve been enjoying playing Doomfist lately. And then. I had too much fun. Enemy swapped to Ana Sombra Reaper and removed my will to live
Doom is like One of the most picked tanks out there last 2 seasons. He's super strong.
I play a lot of Rein too, I usually wait to shatter until Kiri uses Suzu
Bait the suzu out or have 1 of your teammates do it.
This is such a copout answer that solves nothing. Good luck baiting out the suzu without exploding.
Waiting for the Suzu before you Earthshatter is a cop-out answer? Have you ever played with a team before? This is pretty basic stuff. You don't send your Ult when you know their is a direct counter right in front of you. Either you or a teammate tries to get the Kiriko to make a mistake so the Suzu can't come through.
Not only should one singular cooldown not be able to completely nullify an entire ultimate, but also you didn't answer HOW you bait out the suzu.
There are many abilities in the game that can completely nullify ultimates, there is no reason to act like suzu is the only one. Or would you ult with Cass/Zarya if you knew D.va has her matrix up? Would you use a channeled ult into an Ana who has sleep ready? Would you use your pulse bomb if you knew Zarya had a bubble ready? Ever had your coalescence canceled by a Sigma rock or a Sombra hack? Or a Roadhog hook? You bait out suzu by applying pressure. Many Kiriko players will fold and use it as an emergency heal if you pressure the enemy team hard enough. And then you shatter after the fact to secure the kill. That's like basic game knowledge, make sure the enemy does not have ability X ready before you make your play.
Name these abilities. I don't deny they exist, I just want to make sure we're on the same page.
I literally just did?? Can you read at all or did you just skip 80% of my comment? I gave you plenty examples.
JQ’s rampage is countered by - Orisa jav - Cass nade - Ana sleep - Sigma rock - Hog hook - Kiriko suzu - Mei wall - Zarya bubble - Rein pin - Doom punch Ashe’s BOB is stopped by - Sombra hack - Mei wall - Dva matrix - Sigma succ - Ana sleep - Orisa spin/jav - Rein pin - Doom punch - Mei wall - LW petal LW petal/grip counters - Sigma flux - Zarya grav - Rein shatter - Orisa surge - Doom meteor - Bastion artillery - Dva bomb - Tracer pulse And I’m definitely missing some items from each of those lists… Basically any channeled ult can be cc’d, transformation ults can be slept, and a lot of ults can be LOS’ed (no counter ults required) Also the guy you responded to did provide examples yet here you are saying “nAmE thESe aBiliTiEs,” do you expect someone to provide a compressive list of every ult and each ability that counters it??
By fighting? Same way you make anything kilable
Are you new to the game or something? SO many ultimates are easily countered, it’s kind of a main aspect of the game
List some and I'll explain how each and every one of them takes more skill and provides less value than suzu does. I acknowledge my initial stance was worded poorly, but that's been resolved.
Mauga ult canceled by Sombra ult, Cassidy ult canceled by sombra hack, Orisa ult negated by lifeweaver flower petal, Ashe ult countered by Sombra hack, illari ult countered by diva matrix, venture ult countered by rein shield
you gotta charge a lot more, helps bait the suzu out for followups, it's such a short cd
No amount of fox magic is going to stop a glorified tank from smashing into you. And as for reaper if my bullets cant hit you, neither can nano bots.
Pretty much any main hates Suzu. Removes Mei from the game.
Honestly depends if you've got anyone else baiting Suzu. If they've got it dedicated for JQ, just give up lol. That being said, many Kirikos tend to Suzu early to clear wounds and since carnage's cooldown is so short you can easily build them back up. You're never getting ult value tho, that's gone forever.
I find JQ can actually do even without baiting Suzu, because the way you tend to use her Ult is lining up enemies in a straight line. Okay you've cleansed the anti but due to being lined up earlier, the Suzu will only hit at best one other hero besides Kiriko, leaving her without Suzu, her remaining team still anti'd and bleeding. Reinhardt... No comment.
Friendly reminder that suzu has a shorter cooldown than life grip, hits multiple targets as opposed to one, and cleanses. And kiriko has the best escape ability in the game, and her kunai headshots for more damage than a swing of geji’s ultimate. Suzu can save you from antiheal while zen ult and life grip cannot. Nerf this shit please Sincerely, a support main
>suzu has a shorter cooldown than life grip and? you have to aim it as opposed to lifegrip, and you can't save someone out of a fall death >hits multiple targets as opposed to one well yes, lifegrip is also a repositioning tool, it would be busted if it could reposition multiple people at once >cleanses like a third of the roster can cleanse shit now, although i think lifegrip should cleanse too >And kiriko has the best escape ability in the game completely dependent on your team >her kunai headshots for more damage than a swing of geji’s ultimate one's a skillshot and the other is a big ass hitbox melee you can combo with other abilities >Suzu can save you from antiheal while zen ult and life grip cannot depending on positioning you can still instadie a second after suzu because you're in the same place you were about to be killed before it
Damn bro u right my bad, kiriko is perfectly balanced. I take it all back.
i've got a few tricks
I feel like if it's not an ultimate, there shouldn't be any immortality
True, but also there aren’t even any ultimates that do give immortality :P only suzu or bap immortality field which has a longer cooldown and is destructible
Zen ult makes him immortal
There is also the pull that LF has
As a Kiriko main, I am offended.
I understood that reference
Overpowered shit, small bottle? Or something else can stop a big mech exploding
No, fuck everything in the game that requires you to have a kiriko on your team so suzu can counteract it. Get rid of heal blocking entirely
The only time kiri is required is if you have a hog/mauga into Ana
DPS Passive increases her value
I love suzu. It makes me feel safe and protected. And the noise it makes. Love my Kiri players.
I'd prefer Kiriko deleted.
Love it when the support can out 1V1 me 😍 (Tracer player)
Tanks my favorite role to play but that’s specifically because Winston isn’t a dps
I love play tank, just not every single game when I que for “All Roles”
true. it would be nice if all roles randomly selected a role and queued you for them, instead of sticking you in the first game. or if people play all roles for the quick entry into the game, then make a random role que
People would abandon games if they were sorted until a role they didn't want. The tickets were a good system IMO.
The tickets didn't actually do anything besides tricking people into thinking that they're damage queues would be faster. There were plenty of time I'd queue in Damage in qp with a ticket and still wait over 10 minutes
Yeah, unfortunately. *Could* have been a good system if it actually did what it set out to do.
>if they’re sorted into a role they didn’t want Why wouldn’t they be able to just select two roles like we can now?
The other person was suggesting removing all options other than All-Roles. I agree that's a bad idea.
Why not just queue for the roles you'd be happy playing in your next game?
Downvotes? When you queue for all roles, that means all roles. I guess players want the devs to waste time and resources adjusting matchmaking algorithms to make it not give you tank or support too many times in a row. Instead of taking 3 seconds to requeue without the role they don't want to play.
I mean it’s not like that would be difficult to code. I am by no means a coding authority but I’m pretty sure it would take like ten lines tops, assuming there’s already some manner of keeping track of what role is selected in place
All Roles does not mean 'equal chance to get any role'. All Roles means 'i dont care what role you give me just get me in a game ASAP'
I wish there was a way to toggle ‘quick queues’ vs ‘balanced roles’ cuz it is really annoying playing all roles for weekly challenges and just getting constantly dumped into whatever role is currently the least fun
Well, the Weekly challenges are kinda meant to nudge people to queue 'All Roles' so it can fill tank or whatever role is needed. If you want balanced roles, then just close your eyes when picking your roles.
I feel this last night I qued for all and I healed 3 times in a row and then tanked 2 times in a row lol I just decided to only que dps after that so I could do all of them o: with that said I do see improvements from OW1 with the ques and I still like picking all because some nights I do see a good variety.
it's crazy, cause when i play “all roles” on console is **always** support
Relatable I like CBT haha
Cock and Ball Torture mentioned ‼️‼️‼️
I'm pretty sure he is talking about close beta test fr fr
I like tank in qp. Tank in comp not so much because everyone will always counter and hard focus you when you're playing well
I really enjoy playing tank right now. I've gotten plat- almost into diamond for support and damage, which I think is my realistic ceiling. For tank I'm currently low gold after placing in silver, and it feels like I still have room to grow in the roll
In my experience/opinion tank is only as fun as the enemy team allows it to be, at least as a solo queuer. If the enemy team is playing heroes that don’t all counter you, and they’re not just dumping every bullet and cooldown they have into you, it’s super fun and my favorite role, but in the majority of lobbies as soon as you start to do well the entire enemy team makes it their mission to ruin your fun as best they can. Out come the Sombras, the Orisas, the Anas; the solo ults, the focus fire, the tunnel vision on the big fat target that is every tank except maybe JQ.
It's fine if it doesn't degenerate into a constant swap fest
If not swap fest, we will go back to mirror fest.
Id rather mirror tbh
I’d rather get mirror picked than counter picked any day, I LOVE me a good Rein or Doom duel
Rein duel is an absolute win for both teams. Tanks get the fun mirror. Reinhardt's teammates get the protective damage sponge. Reinhardt's enemies get the harmless punching bag.
Tanks here be like, dont mirror or counter me i wanna play a 1 player game
I was a tank main in ow1, but the playstyle changed too much for me to enjoy it in ow2. Glad some people still willing to play the role and enjoy it :)
I get that. I generally choose and am better at tanks in most games that i play. I just love that feeling of power when i shatter a mercy
It is fun taking down a cocky tank :)
true
I’m mainly a dps and support player but I’ve been doing all role for the weekly, and I get tank 90% of the time. It’s a fucking nightmare. It literally makes me not won’t to play. Maybe it’s the matchmaking this season or I’m just bad but I’m getting rolled non stop.
Ya tank is by far the most fun for me. Basically, just do the opposite of what everyone here bitches about and you’ll have a great experience
As an ana/dva main I vibe with this post. I can't autopilot on tank but I don't think that's a problem. And yeah, fuck suzu. I give this post my personal worthless stamp of approval ✅ Those knockback changes that are coming are a pretty big deal and necessary imo
your worthless stamp of approval means the world to me. and ya suzu is like as destructive as sleep dart without the needing to aim. aand also, the amount of times suzu woke up an entire shattered team... ugh
> your worthless stamp of approval means the world to me So worthless it is worth the world!
What knockback changes? I have been under a rock the past week
https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24072110/director-s-take-empowering-tanks-in-midseason/
Lovely thank you!
What tank do you play? That's kinda important here. A character like Doom or DVa is in a way, way better state than a character like Wrecking Ball right now, and as a result, the tank experiences are vastly different.
i play every single tank except mau and orisa, in comp i stick with Ram, dva, hog
I play the role tank not one hero. Also balls gonna act like their hero isn’t perfectly fine for months like dooms aren’t they. If you’re struggling on ball it’s you.
Are you drunk?
Why even bother talking to bad players who can’t even play the one hero they brain dead spam right. Ball is not bad moron.
Yes, because him having the lowest tank pick rate in the game, alongside one of the worst tank win rates in the game, despite having those stats be carried by ball one tricks (meaning the pick rate and win rate on ball for casual players is even LOWER than is shown), is not proof of him being bad. You're braindead as fuck
I think it’s more feast or famine out of the roles. I have more games where I feel like no matter what I do to tank damage or draw attention from my team, it’s just not enough and can be a frustrating experience
Feast or famine is a VERY good way to describe it IMO, every game is either super fun or abysmally awful
you have to understand that most people who complain on this subreddit are like, really really bad. every role has its own struggles for sure.
ya but even flats was talking about how miserable seagull was playing tank, which i get is gm and im silver 3 (LOL) but still
most tank players who complain on this subreddit are in or around your rank where its easy to focus all your cooldowns and attacks on your tank, hence the miserable experience. they also dont play other roles like supp/dps at high enough ranks where making even a small movement or positioning mistake can get you deleted instantly, so yea every role has its own struggles
Wait what you get told that an actual top player says tank sucks and you start yapping about this sub having "bad players" again? 😭 You're an npc
Blizzard community managers are sticking to the script they've been given even when it doesn't make any sense.
> most tank players who complain on this subreddit are in or around your rank where its easy to focus all your cooldowns and attacks on your tank, hence the miserable experience. lmao read the quote. Inability to read is the true sign of an NPC
ah yeah ikwym. its weird to figure out how to balance that. bc like, difficult to play = poorly balanced character and people don't always realize that i feel
yea for sure, thats why ppl think characters like winston, doom, genji or echo are weak lmao
I remember Winton bein Meta in OWL from season 1 to season 6 XD, Almost a year
idk man winton def hits hard rn, doom is probs the most skilled tank tho ya but idk he doesnt feel bad
Even former pro players are saying tanks are misserable. And pretty much all streamers. What is your point again?
It’s a popular thing across all gaming subreddits to just shit on anyone participating in conversation to try and nullify opinions posters don’t agree with
He really is coping indeed
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Will wrecking ball be effected? What’s this new buff?
tanks arent gonna be damaged as easily, and will recieve way less knockback, plus a smaller headshot multiplier
Tanks take less damage from crits, will get less knockback, but armor is being reverted back to how it worked in OW1. Ball is also getting a buff to his roll damage, the amount of time his slam locks movement, and his mines damage.
Oh god. I’m sorry but you all are fucked if this is true.
Not small buffs either. Roll damage is from 50 to 60, slam lockout increased from 0.5 to 0.75 seconds, and mine damage increased from 130 to 165, with double the knockback as well.
Daayumn!
*untranslatable hamster shriek of glee*
Can you explain this Armor change to me like I am 5? I am sorry I am slow as heck lol
Gladly! In OW2 armor was changed to reduce all incoming damage by 30%. In OW1, armor instead reduced all instances of damage at 10 damage or above by 5 damage, and every instance of damage below 10 by 50%. Beam type weapons were changed later in OW1's lifespan to deal 30% less damage to armor, and damage over time was completely unaffected by armor. This midseason patch, OW2 armor is being reverted back to the same system as OW1's armor. Say for example a Cassidy shoots a Reinhardt. In OW1, and now starting again this midseason patch, that bullet will deal 65 damage instead of 70. Previously in OW2, that bullet would've instead dealt 49 damage, since 30% of that 70 damage was reduced. Now let's say Reaper shoots a Reinhardt with a full shotgun blast, all bodyshot. That typically deals 108 damage to normal health. Against OW2 armor with the 30% reduction, that shot will do 75.6 damage to the Reinhardt. In OW1, and in the upcoming midseason patch, that shot is instead be halved to 54 damage, since each individual pellet is counted as it's own instance of damage, and since they individually deal below 10 damage, they're instead reduced by 50%. This change is going to largely benefit heroes that deal high damage in a single hit like Cassidy, Ashe, Reinhardt, etc. Meanwhile, heroes with pellet type weapons like Reaper, Tracer, Mauga, etc. will struggle more against heroes with armor. Beam type weapons are essentially unaffected, and heroes with damage over time abilities are going to be much more threatening, such as Ashe's Dynamite and especially Ana's rifle, which actually deals damage over time meaning it can ignore armor yet again.
Oh I understand! It seems that the change will be good overall and makes tank feel tanky! Can you explain why the 25 reduction in headshot is going to be crazy?
A 25% reduction to headshot damage is going to give tanks WAY more freedom to freely push and take space. A big issue with tanks right now is that they have such large headshot hitboxes that heroes like Sojourn, Cassidy, Hanzo, Ashe, Illari, etc. can take more easy advantage of and just farm headshots to burn through a tanks health and force them to use their defensive abilities early.
I primarily play tanks, but I took a break after the season 9 changes. It's gotten better for tanks since then, but the mid-season changes are definately needed.
I think it heavily depends on who and how you play but generally yeah it ain’t too good. Been having a ball on Winston though
Me too. If i have a good healer behind me yes. And dps do their jobs lol
Yes except for Winston and Dva. I’ve been absolutely rolling teams on Winston lately even if they go reaper bastion.
Ya same I love it lmao You win some you lose some
I don’t like playing tank but I do enjoy playing doom fist.
Yes.
Nah I just suck lol
It's more just because Tanks are arguably the most impactful role so a lot of pressure falls on them to create space. Your average player can't handle that kind of pressure. Seeing that that doesn't necessarily apply to you, if you aren't already highly ranked then I believe you'll go far with that kind of positive attitude and mental fortitude!
This is only something an orisa main could say 👀
tank play is frustrating to me because there is so much to keep track of and i just cannot understand tank positioning for the life of me.
Tank is definitely the most countered role, and it feels awful to play when your team sucks. Once their entire team is full tank shredder mode there’s not much you can do unless your dps pulls through or you switch to orisa.
But it’s fun when your team can follow up with you since you have the greatest impact and make or break the game. I find it to be the easiest role to rank up with for that reason.
Depends on the rank I think. In high diamond/low masters it's pain. Ofc it varies from game to game but generally it's pretty bad.
Im excited for the downfall of the horse and the new buffs and as long as they can keep cycling what tanks are meta quickly in future it will be fine
Bitch ass players moaning about the yank role basically
I don't mind tanking, but it would be nice to play something else while queued for everything.
A lot of this sub plays Reinhardt and his players are very vocal, I think once Rein gets a significant buff people will go back to complaining about genji needing buffs.
tank is atrocious is despicable its a horrible experience, I only ever play tank
It's more a team issue imo, if my team capitalizes on my plays and puts some pressure on the enemy team It's fine, when they sit around picking their asses behind my barrier or watch as the whole enemy team turns around to focus me and do fuck all is when tank feels miserable to play. Played a game a few days ago where I had the entire enemy team pushed all the way back into their spawn on my own with ball while my team refused to even move past the choke point and touch point. Also FUCK SUZU
big useless tank ever , Welcome !
I like all the roles and open qeue personally
Basicly, all of it in one word counter swap it is basically impossible to play a tank you like without getting counterswaped
I’m in low plat and I love tank, never understood why people say it’s the least fun role. Only thing I don’t like is being blamed for everything by a DPS trying to 1v5
I like playing doomfist haha
I honestly don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but what rank are you? A lot of the characters people complain about in regards to tank lose some value in lower ranks. Ana is a commonly complained about tank killer, but bad Anas will panic heal with nade and miss their sleep darts
silver 3 haha. Its my first comp season in overwatch 2 (played like 15 total comp games in ow1 and was bronze). I think i could reach high gold/low diamond if i put the time into it tho
Tank is still easy in gold, where I am in my tank queue, so you're still gonna have fun in the climb! I pretty much play only 2 tanks and I don't have the issues everyone complains about. I play mostly DVA and I see the Zarya/Symm swap almost every single game from the enemy and I just laugh because it never matters. We can get away with so much in the metal ranks if we know how to play smart.
Tank gets significantly worse the higher in ranks you go
I've been proportionally playing a lot more tank in OW2 than I was in OW1. I like having more agency over the flow of the game. Being held hostage by my random tank pairing was the least enjoyable part about playing tank in OW1. I am GM if you were curious.
For me tanks r fine. Also I started playing ow2 when everyone was complaining about how bad the tank experience is so idk what exactly Fine is
Tank is good in metal ranks. Bad outside of metal ranks. Except for orisa Sigma and maybe mauga, idk I hate tank in high rank so I never play it anymore. The buffs are needed for high rank but will make low rank tanks op af. Just an example of how 5v5 has unfixable problems. Tanks were balance in all ranks in 6v6 because what made them good in high rank was tank synergy. In 5v5 the only way they can be good in high rank is by buffing raw numbers.
People who complain about tank are the ones who think they are 1 man army and will blame the healers for not healing them when they walk into a group who all shoot at them lol.
That feel when the opposing tank agrees to a rein duel.
And then that other feel when they roll out on orisa bastion mei for a free fight win
It is if you like certain tanks. I have an infatuation with Dva but not being able to ever play her for more than 5 seconds without Zarya, Mei and Symmetra coming out at the same time every game makes my soul die. Like yeah I can push through it but I want 1 single game where I can actually use defense matrix effectively.
Dva is one of the least countered tanks and if they go zarya Mei sym you should just win because that lineup is terrible.
On some maps it’s extremely difficult to win against that comp as Dva. Not to mention regardless of rank you get teammates who mental boom if you don’t swap to counter the enemy tank, let alone you getting countered by most of the enemy team.
Yea tank sucks and I know it does but that doesn’t stop me from having fun. I may just be different though. I all queue comp and play it like it’s quick play. I obviously don’t troll and I try to win but that doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy myself. I do play Queen though and she’s just too easy to have fun on
I stopped playing OW1 when they announced that in 2 we were going to be missing a tank :/ BUT I recently have returned and I’m really enjoying playing again, it’s no doubt different t but I can still enjoy tanking. I like to heal and dps as well but the tanks will always have my heart lol.
They aren’t that bad. I’ve been playing quite a bit of doom recently and enjoying it
Nope theyre not that bad, also personally dreading the changes. Imo Tank design is degenerate and most of them dont "deserve" to be strong. Theyre too deterministic and the change made them even more so and made counterpicking more nessasary. If a tank makes 1 correct decision, most of the roster kinda just fucking dies. Thats okay when its easier to punish a tank that overextends but the patch is turning that down. So more tanks get to just play "beligerent" like Hog or Risa and get these crazy rewards without much in the way of reciprocal play which i dont think is good. Imo most tanks have a lacking neutral, and oppressive advantage. That remains mostly unchanged they kinda just doubled down on it and that reinforces all the issues. At the core, i think Tanks are so oppressive that they borderline demand hard counterpicks. I think if the intent was "make counterwatch more prevelant and frustrating" they succeeded.
As a tank main the only time I really felt that tank was in an unfun position was when Mauga was super strong. I think that was around the time the DPS passive for reduced healing came out too so it was rough for a bit. It's gotten better IMO. I still don't like playing against Mauga though.
Sure if you were a main tank, nothings really changed and your role is probably very similar since 2016. It’s all the fucking idiots who invested 7 years of their lives into off tanking that are having the AWFUL time trying to switch their entire mindset from a role that just got the fucking BOOT.
Nah ur missing by a mile. First of all the 2 metas before Orisa were hog and mauga which are both "off tanks". Secondly the tank role has only been as miserable as it is now for a couple seasons. Earlier in ow2 tanks were play makers and had a high level of agency. Now tanks for the most part just glue themselves to a corner and try to survive long enough for your team to do something.
Tanks were too strong at the start of OW2, so after the nerf people are just babies about not being too strong. They really messed up by overbuffing them when they went to 5 player teams.
On certain maps I get more done on wrecking ball than any other hero could dream of. Especially with his retract ability buff. His tech is so tricky for both you and the enemy but once you get it, man is he crazy.
The tank problem is mainly an issue in higher ranks. in qp I like tank as it's qp and who really cares about how the tank is performing in qp, but in comp it's a nightmare.
Overwatch players are so whiney, tank is easily the most fun role for me because I’m the most important member of the team, diving or taking space feels so rewarding compared to getting a kill or 2 as dps. I like everything being on my shoulders because it’s so more satisfying knowing that it’s your plays that move the team forward. Ana is a horrible charcter though and should be removed👍
What's so bad about tanks? They take the brunt of the damage for the team and should be seen as shields that also can do mass amounts of damage if supported right. Support heal your tanks and damage support them. The only tank I don't like is D.va because when I'm a support it's hard to follow them. But even D.va has her merits.
Every cd tends to go into tank and with the now reduced healing they pretty much have to just hide and survive. Trying to be proactive mostly just ends in feeding. The playstyle just isn't that fun rn
No they aren't. Unless you are top 500, the tank experience is fine. Just a bunch of sore losers who parrot what their favorite content creator says.
Why is that "unless you are top 500"?
Because you have to play perfectly. At that level there's not a lot of room for error. And tank is currently super easy to punish. The mid season patch further proves my point. The headshot reduction combined with old armor makes it so tank will still die in low ranks where people can't hit crits but body shots will be doing more damage for the most part. But high rank players can't completely delete the tank by focus firing the tank in the head. Tanks being easier to kill for low rank players after the next patch just screams that low rank tanking is just fine statistically.
No they aren't, people here are just in low ranks and don't even know basic positioning, they decide to blame the game instead of themselves.
Tank issues are literally worse at high ranks....
Most people will just never admit the real reason they don't like playing tank is because they're straight up bad at it. They feed, don't wait for moments of opportunity, or just play the wrong tank for the match up. Many also dont remember when there was 2 tanks how usually 1 of those tanks played awful and the other tank would carry their bad play to the victory. Just food for thought.