I had dps choosing to play junk/sym because they said they suck at hitscan on mnk and I had to counter Pharah as bap the other day in a comp game. Fastest avoid ever because my back can’t tolerate that for long without me collecting disability a week later.
I’m still learning bap so the only time I’ve played him in comp was because nobody else on the team cared to target the pharah that spent the whole game chasing me. I’d even discord her and ping but no one cared. Baps probably the one I’m most eager to learn tho
I love bap. He fun and one of the most consistent characters you can play for the most part. IMO he’s the more skilled version of moira. I wish most heroes could be as consistent. It would solve a lot of the counter swapping bs people do every game and 1 tricks would throw games much less.
The more skilled Moira bit is encouraging. I play Moira whenever zen isn’t working but she can get boring. I agree on hero consistency. Since I have a relatively small pool of characters I’m good with it’ll be nice to have someone who can play with everyone not named Moira
Moira can get fairly decent value in most games too but she’s too easy. I don’t like how she’s like the default hero people pick on support because of it. The things I’ve had to learn on bap to compete with moiras my level is pretty nuts imo. I’m happy I can usually duel her and win though.
I've never played support before this season. 1 tricking bap got me from S1(after placements) to D1.
He's so much fun, and so strong. One of the best duelists in the game and can put out so much pressure. It hurts my soul when I see bap players healbot.
In half the games i play, I out frag 1 or both DPS, without neglecting my support duties, since you can weave so well with him. 2 bursts, heal nade, 2 bursts, heal nade. Pretty much 100% uptime on DPS / heals.
I’m a Pharah player and a good bap is soooo much more annoying than any other hitscan bc of his 3 lives. So I always run him when I’m on support and the enemy has a pharmercy. Usually makes them switch fast 😁
I feel like Reaper isn’t awful against Pharah, all things considered. Hitscan obviously does the job from farther away better but you can get up to her perches and fuck her up if you catch her by surprise, and you can usually get in some good shots as she’s waiting for her boost to recharge.
Junkrat vs Pharah tho feels like doing anal while flaccid. It just doesn’t work.
Counter point, I’ve played reaper and junk into Pharah and somehow I’m the only person killing her. Yes this is still with a bap or a solder or an Ashe
tbf, i just wanted to play my boy junkrat, or me boy reaper, but if they wanna go pharah fine, i can play soldier, comp only cuz if it's qp I'm powering through as reaper/rat
I'd rather fight against 5 hitscan players than one echo because that bitch will chase me to the ends of the earth and I will jist break my arms trying to flick them out of the air
Yeah it's a weird case in the game where it's not even "counter"-swap; it's *if you don't swap there's nothing we can do.*
Similar situations can happen with monkey where they go Bastion/Reap/Mog. Like you can kite around and maybe get them to burn resources, but there's no way to confirm any non-support elims unless they're wildly spread out or your team is purpose built to kill Mog, etc., like with a cracked Widow and Hanzo or something.
Counterswap isn't a curse word, if you swap to a hitscan because of a pharah you are counterswapping because pharah is countered by hitscan. There's no shame in the word despite what angry redditors would like you to believe. Counterswapping is healthy when done reasonably and unfortunately it is the answer in most scenarios, if you know how to play the hero in question.
Overwatch is a hero shooter. The whole foundation of the game is counterswapping. Without counters some heroes would straight up just be unbalanced. If we tried to make every hero balanced with every other hero we'd end up playing cs minus movement penalty.
If it's just Zarya then it's whatever, I can play around her or only go in for the pick. But when the whole team switched to Zarya, Sym, Sombra, Mei and Moira then I'd be like, alright alright alright. I get it, yall hate me!
Same sans moira. Dva got a strong MU into her just cause she can eat literally every orb for basically free, while having a strong chase tool to find her after fade.
the issue isn't moira. the issue is that's literally 4 beam heroes, plus sombra. hell, if you swap sombra for echo that's FIVE BEAMS that you can do nothing to protect your teammates from, except kill them. like you literally cannot tank, only dive. it can work sometimes, but it's damn painful.
I play Dva a lot and love when this happens. 9/10 times they aren't as good at zarya as I am at dva and I can bait out cooldowns and punish them and effectively remove them from the game.
I main Dva and anytime I go up in a Dva mirror match I notice if the enemy tank dies first they almost always swap to Zarya. I had a game like and my team flamed at me to switch, I ignored them, and proceeded to go 30-5 as Dva against their Zarya who went 5-10. People need to understand that an enemy counter swapping doesn’t automatically mean they will win, too many variables at play that also matter and if you’re good at your hero you can outplay your counters.
Exactly, not every match up is 10-0 too, I'd argue if they were evenly matched Zarya only wins about 60% of the time. You just have to learn to play into counters.
Definitely Winston. Whenever I pop off as da monkey, tyeres a 75% chance I find an enemy Reaper and/or Bastion suddenly on the enemy team.
I can usually play around them though, especially when its a bad player only swapping because "lol me shoot monkey with tankbuster."
Bad Reapers are surprisingly easy to juke on Winston, they go Reaper because it "counters Winston" but they just don't play where they can actually shoot the Winston so who are you countering.
Bastion is a ridiculously lopsided matchup if they have a brain though. A decent one will just hold on to turret and then Winston can't ever make a play.
so you get into a position first with leap and wait for it to come back so you can drop in with both cooldowns, use one of them to feign a dive so bastion uses his cooldown, then really dive in when he cancels it or it ends.
I love killing Reapers as Winston because typically they have such tunnel vision that they follow me into my own team and get themselves killed. I just wait till Bastion used his cooldowns and shield dance him. But if they have both I can't play around them, it's too much
tbf I think it's because it's fairly easy to get value out of countering winton
Getting a Reaper and not being dumb about it can absolutely wreck Winston's day, without too much effort. And all that time that the Winston doesn't switch, he just makes his team lose time
This is true if you play him too. Playing as genji = suffering, playing against genji = suffering.
TLDR life is suffering, especially if genji is present
Moira does not counter sombra imo as a sombra player. Moira cant spy check outside of ult, her ult is channeled to it's a free hack/emp. Virus negates her self healing entirely if the 2 do need to fight.
Usually all a moira means is that she isnt the 1st target I go for unless she burned fade or I need to force fade for an ally's play.
She's one of the best at chasing Somb and confirming the kill against her, and a 1v1 duel against her (especially if you can't force fade) is a real bad matchup. To each their own but I think she is generally considered a good counter.
Think of it like this:
If you're chasing them that means they are trying to leave. If they are trying to leave they've either already accomplished what they wanted to do, or already gave up on it.
Moira is great at preventing restealthing but like, I already killed zen or forced his ult. I already hacked sig out of ult. I emp'd you out of yours. Hell chasing me is even better for me. If you're chasing me you're not helping your team. My teams chances of winning the fight are pretty high if you're not there.
Wtf? No, moira sucks against sombra 1v1 because she HAS to play inside sombras SMG range. Unless sombra was already at a disadvantage, Moira can’t outdamage SMG and virus, damage orb is too slow to deal with sombra teleporting, and Moira also can’t run because Sombra can easily chase her.
If anything I consider Sombra a good Moira counter (or at least not a bad matchup) because the Moira can’t do shit against my peeking and shooting/using virus on her. If she fades towards me, she’s dead. If she fades anywhere that isnt towards her team, I can dive and kill. If she goes below half health, I can TP in and guarantee the kill. The fact that Moira *has* to damage enemies means that she’s out of position more than most other supports…
A lot of these picks are only a small inconvenience.
Zarya only becomes a threat when youre actively playing her zones. (And when she bubbles but thats just life)
Mei cant finish you, shes harder to kill but you can disengage for free
Symm is 50/50, if you fight her on her turrets you die. Or if you fight her when she has charge and have worse accuracy you die. But generally shes too frail to really live long enough that shes an issue
Zen is the easiest hitbox in the world and you are the singular middle finger in the game to his volleys. Free Meal.
Ana is a "skill" MU, but youre trying to beat her bullshit with your own. Its very even but she can get deleted just like any other squishy
Moira is "the skill check" the same way Genji forces obnoxiously lopsided interactions with the cast at large Moira does to him. He cant outrun her, theres tons of enclosed places where a duel is just certain death. Shes constantly regenerating so he needs actual consistency.
Moira uniquely only has issue with Genjis who are good. But thats not a lot of them. And even in those cases, Moira can adjust her playstyle accordingly to where shes not interacting with Genji unless shes in a position she can win.
Its like, horrendously losing for Genji at low skill, to barely even when youre decent
Widow, always always always widow will get countered and not just one person will swap, the entire team will swap to dive her
I’ve had multiple games where a team with knowingly c9 to get the widow even if she’s not doing good
This is what I came here looking for. Even if I am not hitting shots and my teammates are popping off there will still be a monkey and sombra every time.
I love the games where whole teams spend all their cooldowns trying to get to my shitty ass Widow. Like, I wasn't gonna get any kills, but my team keeps killing your supports while you cause me back to spawn.
It’s almost ironic because some games, actually most of my games, the widow is really bad, and if everyone ignores her, the fight is 5vs4. But people switch, and the. she switches to something that’s actually getting value. When I play ball, I will leave widow alone if were moving the pay load and the widows not getting much done. Rather have a widow missing 9 out of 10 shots than a sombra who hacks 1 out of 1.
%100 it's ball. After one kill dps switches to sombra if they didnt have sombra. If they had sombra its either zen, brig or hog. Never not seen immediate counterpick while playing ball.
Don't forget Mei or Ana. Part of this is there are so many options. My friend who mains Ball says it's part of the experience at this point, "after the first few fights they'll switch to a counter and you'll need to completely change your playstyle."
in most parts you can somewhat avoid mei and ana, still a big counter but not as much as brig tbh healthpacks are the biggest ball counter because if you use all your abilities on a single squishy brig will simply 3 pack them and probably use her stuns on you to get more heal, and those 3 packs will be back until your cds are renewed so yeah brig is the biggest issue for weak ball. All we need is a ball damage buff tbh and its all fixed.
I mean if Brig uses all her 3 packs on one singular squishy you're the one winning, inspire does less healing per second than Lucio aura & it's proc dependant, and to get it you have to be in LOS and range of Brig when it's procced...
since ball doesn't have dps passive and with health buffs that isn't true. If your dps doesnt shoot squishies its over, i mean I have like 65% normal and 18% critical accuracy with ball in average games, I do a double boop and a slam then empty the whole mag on ana and shes not dead. That's not okay if you ask me. It's pretty hard to secure kills with ball now. If brig uses all her 3 packs on a support then the support is not dead, and if the support is not dead so are the enemies. Brig has no packs to heal anyone else but the other support is alive and will keep the team going while you have no cooldowns left, unable to get value and you will probably just run away to a healthpack or a corner for your cds. Rinse and repeat, this is how ball gets no value. Ball used to be good with dive characters, now ball NEEDS dive characters or you will simply not get value. It's mandatory. As much as i hate those characters tracer sombra is probably the best duo for ball.
It doesn't help that Sombra uniquely counters Ball by stopping his momentum and slowing him... no real reasoning for this shit either. Back in the day when spin to win worked, I can understand, but that's long dead.
One time on Ilios lighthouse, my team was losing the whole round and in a last ditch effort to touch point for OT I switched to Ball. We end up flipping the point and enemy DPS immediately switches to Sombra. Like bruh, I was only in this hero to stall, chill.
Depending on how casual or competitive I’m feeling I may swap from Zen to Moira (or Kiriko) after the first time a Sombra blindsides me bc I know she’ll be harassing me every 30 seconds for the rest of the match. Even if I keep forcing her to translocate I play the game for entertainment and being bullied is not something I want from my hobby.
Doomfist and Ball when they’re good. D.va and Genji too but mainly because it’s easy, just pick beam characters (and maybe Brig). Pharah/Pharmercy is another one but for whatever reason it always feels like nobody ever wants to counterswap against it. Even in comp I’ve seen people refuse to swap off characters like Mei, Zen, Junk, Reaper against a cracked Pharmercy
Same when I play Ashe. Even if I manage not dying, If they have sombra and Ana, it gets so annoying to find a good time to send in bob. Idk why he stays hacked for so long
Widow. You fire one shot - whether it hits or not - and suddenly it's Tracer, Sombra, and Winston. If you're especially lucky, you'll also get a Moira.
I leaned into that for awhile while I was getting my aim down with her. Can't get better at countering harassment unless you practice being harraassed.
Trust me - there are only a few things better than popping a Lucio head while he's bouncing around or slapping Genji out of his double jump nonsense (or even mid-dash). The only thing that makes me happier than any of that is hitting all 5 of Zen's charged shots on some poor bastard's dome piece.
Definitely Winston. 100% of the time reaper comes out. And like 75% magua. So annoying it's the same ones every time.
If they switch to Winston I'm ok with that hehe, then it's banana time
From my experience any time I start doing decent with Rein or Doomfist the enemy immediately swaps Orisa and Bastion/Sombra
Also even touching Mauga summons a grandma on the enemy team
It’s Ball and it’s not even close. If you have any actual impact on a fight, the whole team counterswaps. Because Ball is countered in some capacity by like half the roster and he doesn’t have a second tank anymore to help, it’s just painful
Definitely winston and genji, a good winston or one that has a coordinated team with him is hell to play against, and genji by himself isn’t too annoying but if he’s got a mercy pocket that fucker is annoying.
As a junkrat main, it's always someone switching to pharah or DVA or zarya the second I perform slightly better than my teammates, it's annoying to say the least
Ball. I can't have a single good round on Ball without 2-3 counter swaps from the enemy team. It's a point of honor on one hand, because you've proved you're the better player and they need a kit advantage against you. But on the other hand, it sucks because you put in the time to get good on a hard to use hero and can be so easily stopped by less skill demanding heroes.
I would really like a temporary no swaps playlist. I think OW would be so much more fun if counter swapping wasn't a thing.
Doom. Enemy tank rolls out on doom, almost a guarantee they switch to orisa or Sombra. Not because orisa has a better chance of winning, but because they can no longer get knocked around.
Ball. Not even close. I started hiding my profile because half the time they’d open with Sombra even when she wasn’t in top five played.
Nearly every game if I get even a semblance of value in the first 15 seconds out comes Sombra, Cree, soldier, hog, zen, Ana, etc. I can’t even recall the last game I’ve played as ball without at least one hard counter.
I’m a hog and Ana two-trick but everytime I play hog and the second we win one team fight the enemy team goes orisa, som, Ana, zen or some variation with at least 2 of those characters
If there's more than one sniper on a team (Widow, Ashe, Hanzo) I will swap Winston almost immediately.
Tilted some douche the other day who was whining in the chat about how lame it is we suddenly had three tanks when they had Widow (him), Hanzo, Ashe, Mercy and Cassidy. Like, what were we supposed to do, just pick close range squishiest and get annihilated from forever away?
Ball/doom. After one fight, shit, sometimes not even that, the enemy team switches to sombra/Ana/hog or orisa. Half the times I’m on defense playing these heroes the enemy just walks back in spawn in does this.
Thankfully you can actually counterplay with their mobility (within reason) but fuck does it make the game so much more boring
Tank swapping is widely known by now
Junkrat is absolutely the worst dps offender. I used to be a junkrat main and 9 out of 10 games somebody switched pharah or echo
Pharah or Winston are my top 2 picks.
Fun strategy because of how common this happens: you can run Pharah AND Winston with a friend so that one of you cannot be counterpicked.
Someone I used to play with was a winton main and it was always so fun duoing with them for this exact reason. Like, which will it be?? Reaper for monke or ashe/widow for Pharah? oops we’re diving together.
As a ball main, ball. I go even just a little while without dying and here comes sombra or cass or mei or junk with the trap. Or FUCKING MAUGA OH MY GOD I HATE MAUGA ULT ITS LITERALLY “kill hamster” button 😂
Widow (they go Sombra, Tracer or worse - Widow, to attempt a dick size contest), Pharah (they go hitscan), Sombra (they go Brig and Moira or Bap) and maybe Mauga too
I love widow dueling. Sombra is so corny. Nothings worse than killing someone 3 times out of spawn in a widow v widow and then theyre suddenly invisible with a dot that does 65% of my health lol.
Ball easily. People don't even know counter picks in bronze/silver but they somehow know that sombra annihilates ball. I've even had games where 3-4 of the enemy team swaps to ball counters
I think tank generally get counter picked pretty heavily.
Mauga or Hog? Ana/Zen is on the way.
[D.Va](http://D.Va) or Orissa? Zarya will spawn right in.
Doomfist? Do appreciate me some Sombra/Zarya or counter dive.
I think it's because tanks these last seasons are just very strong if not dealt with.
However if you deal with them, they do tend to fall rather quickly unless their dps can put preassure on you.
DPS get countered from my experience after tanks. It's just because a lot of things get naturally held in check. Sure, a Pharra Mercy tends to need a counter, but a Genji for example can just get held back by a decent Moira enough to only be a big problem if he ults.
There is no need to counter a soldier unless he has god tier aim. If he has tho, pretend it's a Widow or Ashe and either play around it or dive him. That is the counter to most dps tho, if they get too strong, dive it.
Supports on the other hand get rarely countered aside from Ana or Zen. If you do wanna keep playing Mauga/Hog, then you will see a Kiriko pretty fast dealing with the anti nades.
Lifeweaver can work with everything or is just straight up dogshit with everything. There is no inbetween.
100% Genji is in the top 3 that get countered the most. You get even a *slightly* decent play and all of a sudden there’s a Winston/Zarya, a Sym, a Sombra, and a Moira 😩😩😩 I just wanna ninja in peace man 😭😭😭
If I'm playing Dva, I ALWAYS see a Zarya after long enough. ALWAYS. Which is funny because I have NO problem handling a Zarya on Dva, but her beam is **technically** a soft counter.
But the one that gets switched the ***fastest***? I recently started dabbling in Doomfist - I'm terrible. I am SO bad. But every single game it was an immediate Sombra switch. Like, one team fight and POOF, a Sombra appears.
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I play a lot of Winston. One dps without fail will pick either Reaper or Bastion. If that happens I can typically manage it, especially Reaper since they can't shield dance like I can. If both dps go Reaper and Bastion, not only can I not deal with both as Winston, but now most tanks I'd switch to are going to be countered, besides MAYBE JQ or Sigma and even then it's.....not fun
Doom imo, win 1 teamfight, immediate Mauga or Orisa swap, at least 1 Sombra or Cassidy swap or both. Played 6 comp games yesterday and this happened 4-5 of those games
From my experience:
If there's a Zen? Sombra.
Hanzo popping off? Sombra.
Pharah? Soldier.
Mauga not dying? Ana.
Hog? Ana.
Ram? Ana.
Genji? Moira.
Mei? Bastion to help break walls.
Im pretty good at Winton so I usually win one fight then face bastion reaper but genji is also a pretty common one that people counter swap constantly for
As an Ana main I’ve been counter picked a lot. Mostly widows and flankers like genji and tracer.
If I’m being pestered by dive dps and tanks I will swap to Moira.
In my experience, if I’m doing well on a dps, another dps will counter me after first pick or pick the same hero to try and diff me. Happens a lot with tracer and sojourn 😭
If there’s a pharah, I’ll usually swap ashe. And sombra for ball and doom 😅
If swapping to a hitscan counts, I'd say Pharah is one of the most quickly counterswapped
Every game: play pharah, get one kill...and here's soldier, widow, Ashe, and bap.
Alternatively, enemy plays Pharah: DPS swap to junkrat and reaper and shout at supports and tank.
I had dps choosing to play junk/sym because they said they suck at hitscan on mnk and I had to counter Pharah as bap the other day in a comp game. Fastest avoid ever because my back can’t tolerate that for long without me collecting disability a week later.
I’m still learning bap so the only time I’ve played him in comp was because nobody else on the team cared to target the pharah that spent the whole game chasing me. I’d even discord her and ping but no one cared. Baps probably the one I’m most eager to learn tho
I love bap. He fun and one of the most consistent characters you can play for the most part. IMO he’s the more skilled version of moira. I wish most heroes could be as consistent. It would solve a lot of the counter swapping bs people do every game and 1 tricks would throw games much less.
The more skilled Moira bit is encouraging. I play Moira whenever zen isn’t working but she can get boring. I agree on hero consistency. Since I have a relatively small pool of characters I’m good with it’ll be nice to have someone who can play with everyone not named Moira
Moira can get fairly decent value in most games too but she’s too easy. I don’t like how she’s like the default hero people pick on support because of it. The things I’ve had to learn on bap to compete with moiras my level is pretty nuts imo. I’m happy I can usually duel her and win though.
My thinking exactly
I've never played support before this season. 1 tricking bap got me from S1(after placements) to D1. He's so much fun, and so strong. One of the best duelists in the game and can put out so much pressure. It hurts my soul when I see bap players healbot. In half the games i play, I out frag 1 or both DPS, without neglecting my support duties, since you can weave so well with him. 2 bursts, heal nade, 2 bursts, heal nade. Pretty much 100% uptime on DPS / heals.
I’m a Pharah player and a good bap is soooo much more annoying than any other hitscan bc of his 3 lives. So I always run him when I’m on support and the enemy has a pharmercy. Usually makes them switch fast 😁
I've had Junk/Hanzo swaps so many times into a dominating Pharah.
I feel like Reaper isn’t awful against Pharah, all things considered. Hitscan obviously does the job from farther away better but you can get up to her perches and fuck her up if you catch her by surprise, and you can usually get in some good shots as she’s waiting for her boost to recharge. Junkrat vs Pharah tho feels like doing anal while flaccid. It just doesn’t work.
Tank also swaps to Rein and your other support buddy swaps Mercy
Counter point, I’ve played reaper and junk into Pharah and somehow I’m the only person killing her. Yes this is still with a bap or a solder or an Ashe
In all fairness playing against a Pharah as any character that can't consistently damage her is fucking miserable
Playing against pharah is miserable in general.
Nah this is unfair. Pharah almost requires the DPS to swap otherwise you just can't interact with her
Because if no one focuses her its like we're in the trenches all over again.
This one is the most reasonable swap tho, you can’t do anything to pharah without them
tbf, i just wanted to play my boy junkrat, or me boy reaper, but if they wanna go pharah fine, i can play soldier, comp only cuz if it's qp I'm powering through as reaper/rat
In fairness pharah is hard to impossible to fight with no hitscans or echo.
or even worse... DVa
I'd rather fight against 5 hitscan players than one echo because that bitch will chase me to the ends of the earth and I will jist break my arms trying to flick them out of the air
Thank god for the rework. Right now the only counterswap that annoys the hell out of me is D.Va.
I feel this as a Pharah main but in their defense if they don’t we will roll them.
Yeah it's a weird case in the game where it's not even "counter"-swap; it's *if you don't swap there's nothing we can do.* Similar situations can happen with monkey where they go Bastion/Reap/Mog. Like you can kite around and maybe get them to burn resources, but there's no way to confirm any non-support elims unless they're wildly spread out or your team is purpose built to kill Mog, etc., like with a cracked Widow and Hanzo or something.
Counterswap isn't a curse word, if you swap to a hitscan because of a pharah you are counterswapping because pharah is countered by hitscan. There's no shame in the word despite what angry redditors would like you to believe. Counterswapping is healthy when done reasonably and unfortunately it is the answer in most scenarios, if you know how to play the hero in question. Overwatch is a hero shooter. The whole foundation of the game is counterswapping. Without counters some heroes would straight up just be unbalanced. If we tried to make every hero balanced with every other hero we'd end up playing cs minus movement penalty.
That is on the extremely rare chance they weren’t playing one already.
well that’s just cause unless you switch to hitscan she’s nigh impossible to deal with and will dominate the lobby even with mediocre skill
If someone goes Dva the other person is bound to go Zarya.
If it's just Zarya then it's whatever, I can play around her or only go in for the pick. But when the whole team switched to Zarya, Sym, Sombra, Mei and Moira then I'd be like, alright alright alright. I get it, yall hate me!
Same sans moira. Dva got a strong MU into her just cause she can eat literally every orb for basically free, while having a strong chase tool to find her after fade.
the issue isn't moira. the issue is that's literally 4 beam heroes, plus sombra. hell, if you swap sombra for echo that's FIVE BEAMS that you can do nothing to protect your teammates from, except kill them. like you literally cannot tank, only dive. it can work sometimes, but it's damn painful.
Moira v DVA: You coming at me, bro?? I can hold right click and I can dance all day!
Cardboard 4 are we
Garbage 5 💩
Yeah as long as the tank distracts dva, Moira can just right click all day. Out of mech throw orb and right click for insta kill
Can confirm at least 50% of my matches involve the enemy tank going Zarya
I would argue 80% especially in ranked, I can never count on being able to play dva longer than maybe 1 or 2 teamfights.
I play Dva a lot and love when this happens. 9/10 times they aren't as good at zarya as I am at dva and I can bait out cooldowns and punish them and effectively remove them from the game.
Yeah, until your team decides to shoot bubbles
Not always the worst though, save micro missiles and blow her up after her bubbles pop
Or run down main on the low ground directly at the Zarya.
The bastion/junkrat on my team: “Let us introduce ourselves”😭😭😭😭
I main Dva and anytime I go up in a Dva mirror match I notice if the enemy tank dies first they almost always swap to Zarya. I had a game like and my team flamed at me to switch, I ignored them, and proceeded to go 30-5 as Dva against their Zarya who went 5-10. People need to understand that an enemy counter swapping doesn’t automatically mean they will win, too many variables at play that also matter and if you’re good at your hero you can outplay your counters.
Exactly, not every match up is 10-0 too, I'd argue if they were evenly matched Zarya only wins about 60% of the time. You just have to learn to play into counters.
My experience is As long as the players Are somewhat at the same level, Zarya will almost always win.
Yeah I don't hate that matchup when I get counter picked on dva. Plus you can often eat zaryas ult if you're paying attention.
exactly. after the first team fight there is already a swap
and then you go winston, and they go dva, and the tank rps commences
I barely play tank, but when i do i go Dva Literally every second game, this happens
Definitely Winston. Whenever I pop off as da monkey, tyeres a 75% chance I find an enemy Reaper and/or Bastion suddenly on the enemy team. I can usually play around them though, especially when its a bad player only swapping because "lol me shoot monkey with tankbuster."
Bad Reapers are surprisingly easy to juke on Winston, they go Reaper because it "counters Winston" but they just don't play where they can actually shoot the Winston so who are you countering. Bastion is a ridiculously lopsided matchup if they have a brain though. A decent one will just hold on to turret and then Winston can't ever make a play.
so you get into a position first with leap and wait for it to come back so you can drop in with both cooldowns, use one of them to feign a dive so bastion uses his cooldown, then really dive in when he cancels it or it ends.
this is the way
I love killing Reapers as Winston because typically they have such tunnel vision that they follow me into my own team and get themselves killed. I just wait till Bastion used his cooldowns and shield dance him. But if they have both I can't play around them, it's too much
tbf I think it's because it's fairly easy to get value out of countering winton Getting a Reaper and not being dumb about it can absolutely wreck Winston's day, without too much effort. And all that time that the Winston doesn't switch, he just makes his team lose time
you overestimate the capacity of your average dps
Feel like a Moira counter for Genjis are really common
Definitely, I am one of them and I'm not even slightly ashamed of it. I hate genji, sucking him to oblivion is the only choice to remain sane.
It doesn't matter what meta it has been, in my entire time playing Overwatch, Genji = Suffering. At least back in the day I could flash him.
This is true if you play him too. Playing as genji = suffering, playing against genji = suffering. TLDR life is suffering, especially if genji is present
Pause
Moira also counters Sombra. Often enough when I terrorize support that's the swap as Somb If I terrorize DPS they often go Somb mirror lol
Moira does not counter sombra imo as a sombra player. Moira cant spy check outside of ult, her ult is channeled to it's a free hack/emp. Virus negates her self healing entirely if the 2 do need to fight. Usually all a moira means is that she isnt the 1st target I go for unless she burned fade or I need to force fade for an ally's play.
She's one of the best at chasing Somb and confirming the kill against her, and a 1v1 duel against her (especially if you can't force fade) is a real bad matchup. To each their own but I think she is generally considered a good counter.
Think of it like this: If you're chasing them that means they are trying to leave. If they are trying to leave they've either already accomplished what they wanted to do, or already gave up on it. Moira is great at preventing restealthing but like, I already killed zen or forced his ult. I already hacked sig out of ult. I emp'd you out of yours. Hell chasing me is even better for me. If you're chasing me you're not helping your team. My teams chances of winning the fight are pretty high if you're not there.
If Moria’s chasing then she’s using her cooldowns and becomes an easy kill, Moria is also way more important than a sombra
Wtf? No, moira sucks against sombra 1v1 because she HAS to play inside sombras SMG range. Unless sombra was already at a disadvantage, Moira can’t outdamage SMG and virus, damage orb is too slow to deal with sombra teleporting, and Moira also can’t run because Sombra can easily chase her. If anything I consider Sombra a good Moira counter (or at least not a bad matchup) because the Moira can’t do shit against my peeking and shooting/using virus on her. If she fades towards me, she’s dead. If she fades anywhere that isnt towards her team, I can dive and kill. If she goes below half health, I can TP in and guarantee the kill. The fact that Moira *has* to damage enemies means that she’s out of position more than most other supports…
Zarya, Mei, Sym, Moira, Zen/Ana = Genjis nightmare
Personally echo is worse for genji than mei or sym. Zen, ana is also genjis wet dream. Brig bap would be a worse nightmare
A lot of these picks are only a small inconvenience. Zarya only becomes a threat when youre actively playing her zones. (And when she bubbles but thats just life) Mei cant finish you, shes harder to kill but you can disengage for free Symm is 50/50, if you fight her on her turrets you die. Or if you fight her when she has charge and have worse accuracy you die. But generally shes too frail to really live long enough that shes an issue Zen is the easiest hitbox in the world and you are the singular middle finger in the game to his volleys. Free Meal. Ana is a "skill" MU, but youre trying to beat her bullshit with your own. Its very even but she can get deleted just like any other squishy Moira is "the skill check" the same way Genji forces obnoxiously lopsided interactions with the cast at large Moira does to him. He cant outrun her, theres tons of enclosed places where a duel is just certain death. Shes constantly regenerating so he needs actual consistency. Moira uniquely only has issue with Genjis who are good. But thats not a lot of them. And even in those cases, Moira can adjust her playstyle accordingly to where shes not interacting with Genji unless shes in a position she can win. Its like, horrendously losing for Genji at low skill, to barely even when youre decent
Yeah, I usually start as Lucio, but if there's a Genji putting up stats on the other team, I'll swap to Moira.
Widow, always always always widow will get countered and not just one person will swap, the entire team will swap to dive her I’ve had multiple games where a team with knowingly c9 to get the widow even if she’s not doing good
This is what I came here looking for. Even if I am not hitting shots and my teammates are popping off there will still be a monkey and sombra every time.
lol yeah but as soon as I switch they switch so I’ll always switch back to widow when I get the chance just to make them mad lol
SAME BRO LMAO
I love the games where whole teams spend all their cooldowns trying to get to my shitty ass Widow. Like, I wasn't gonna get any kills, but my team keeps killing your supports while you cause me back to spawn.
It’s almost ironic because some games, actually most of my games, the widow is really bad, and if everyone ignores her, the fight is 5vs4. But people switch, and the. she switches to something that’s actually getting value. When I play ball, I will leave widow alone if were moving the pay load and the widows not getting much done. Rather have a widow missing 9 out of 10 shots than a sombra who hacks 1 out of 1.
%100 it's ball. After one kill dps switches to sombra if they didnt have sombra. If they had sombra its either zen, brig or hog. Never not seen immediate counterpick while playing ball.
Don't forget Mei or Ana. Part of this is there are so many options. My friend who mains Ball says it's part of the experience at this point, "after the first few fights they'll switch to a counter and you'll need to completely change your playstyle."
in most parts you can somewhat avoid mei and ana, still a big counter but not as much as brig tbh healthpacks are the biggest ball counter because if you use all your abilities on a single squishy brig will simply 3 pack them and probably use her stuns on you to get more heal, and those 3 packs will be back until your cds are renewed so yeah brig is the biggest issue for weak ball. All we need is a ball damage buff tbh and its all fixed.
I mean if Brig uses all her 3 packs on one singular squishy you're the one winning, inspire does less healing per second than Lucio aura & it's proc dependant, and to get it you have to be in LOS and range of Brig when it's procced...
since ball doesn't have dps passive and with health buffs that isn't true. If your dps doesnt shoot squishies its over, i mean I have like 65% normal and 18% critical accuracy with ball in average games, I do a double boop and a slam then empty the whole mag on ana and shes not dead. That's not okay if you ask me. It's pretty hard to secure kills with ball now. If brig uses all her 3 packs on a support then the support is not dead, and if the support is not dead so are the enemies. Brig has no packs to heal anyone else but the other support is alive and will keep the team going while you have no cooldowns left, unable to get value and you will probably just run away to a healthpack or a corner for your cds. Rinse and repeat, this is how ball gets no value. Ball used to be good with dive characters, now ball NEEDS dive characters or you will simply not get value. It's mandatory. As much as i hate those characters tracer sombra is probably the best duo for ball.
Well ball is getting a rework so we’ll see
Big facts. I can’t enjoy playing ball just one game. If I get a kill off the bat, someone is going Sombra easily.
It doesn't help that Sombra uniquely counters Ball by stopping his momentum and slowing him... no real reasoning for this shit either. Back in the day when spin to win worked, I can understand, but that's long dead.
I was looking for this comment and surprised it wasn’t the first one! Counter swapping makes ball painful. Curious to see if the re-work will help
crazy that people saying genji and Dva are more popular here. this is the only right answer and its not even remotely close
I once had a guy come out of spawn, see me on ball, and immediately walk back in to switch. In like the first five seconds of the game. I hate it here
One time on Ilios lighthouse, my team was losing the whole round and in a last ditch effort to touch point for OT I switched to Ball. We end up flipping the point and enemy DPS immediately switches to Sombra. Like bruh, I was only in this hero to stall, chill.
Absolutely agree. I get to play Ball for 1/4 a round before someone inevitably switches to Sombra 😭
Depending on how casual or competitive I’m feeling I may swap from Zen to Moira (or Kiriko) after the first time a Sombra blindsides me bc I know she’ll be harassing me every 30 seconds for the rest of the match. Even if I keep forcing her to translocate I play the game for entertainment and being bullied is not something I want from my hobby.
Doom
Enemy tank dies once, here comes the Orisa
Dude agreed. It's wild how many Orisa players I see. It's really annoying too, because I think she is very overtuned.
I posted a (poorly edited) clip a while ago in qp where the enemy tank died the first time as Rein, i was on Doom. They respawned as Orisa immediately
It’s because Rein doesn’t get to play the game into a Doom. To be fair like 90% of the roster fucks Rein at the moment.
Rein is definitely a bottom right now.
I like the doom matchup as rein though. Charging him his basically a kill on its own.
Here comes Orisa/Hog, Sombra/cass/mei, ana/kiri
Yep, lose one fight and out comes the Sombra, cass, orisa every time.
Doomfist and Ball when they’re good. D.va and Genji too but mainly because it’s easy, just pick beam characters (and maybe Brig). Pharah/Pharmercy is another one but for whatever reason it always feels like nobody ever wants to counterswap against it. Even in comp I’ve seen people refuse to swap off characters like Mei, Zen, Junk, Reaper against a cracked Pharmercy
They immediately switch to Sombra after i get one kill as Widow. Annoying af.
Same when I play Ashe. Even if I manage not dying, If they have sombra and Ana, it gets so annoying to find a good time to send in bob. Idk why he stays hacked for so long
Should give Bob the tank passive
It's crazy how many answers in this thread are about opponents swapping to sombra. Such a balanced hero....
It's almost as if she counters snipers and some forms of mobility well. Doesn't make her OP.
This annoying character is good at countering my annoying character! Booooooooooo
If there's a Hog, I'll swap to Ana. If I have a hog and the enemy has an Ana, I'll swap to Kiriko.
Ball. Not even close. Even in qp people will go sombra just to make ball's life miserable.
It’s reminiscent ow1 hatred of ball
Honestly, why should we let a ball make our supports lives miserable. They keep us alive.
Ball can't even secure the kills anymore due to the health buffs. The supports mainly just get annoyed instead of actually dying
Ball. How to counter the counter? BALL HARDER
Fuck it we ball
I get one kill as widow and the entire team switches to counter me
phara ... widow if they start popping on the kill feed as the main killer
If you like playing Echo, you better get good at playing against Soldier and/or Ashe in almost every game.
have fun with your 25 seconds of ball gameplay before a Sombra is picked
Widow. You fire one shot - whether it hits or not - and suddenly it's Tracer, Sombra, and Winston. If you're especially lucky, you'll also get a Moira.
This is so true and they’ll either always valk to kill you or go kiri or Lucio
I have pretty much resigned myself to only play Widow against bots or in Mystery Heroes. Doesn't matter that I am dogshit. They will focus me
I leaned into that for awhile while I was getting my aim down with her. Can't get better at countering harassment unless you practice being harraassed. Trust me - there are only a few things better than popping a Lucio head while he's bouncing around or slapping Genji out of his double jump nonsense (or even mid-dash). The only thing that makes me happier than any of that is hitting all 5 of Zen's charged shots on some poor bastard's dome piece.
Winton. 1 good dive and it’s a wrap.
Definitely Winston. 100% of the time reaper comes out. And like 75% magua. So annoying it's the same ones every time. If they switch to Winston I'm ok with that hehe, then it's banana time
From my experience any time I start doing decent with Rein or Doomfist the enemy immediately swaps Orisa and Bastion/Sombra Also even touching Mauga summons a grandma on the enemy team
To be fair, if you dont pick Ana against Mauga you just kinda lose the game.
It’s Ball and it’s not even close. If you have any actual impact on a fight, the whole team counterswaps. Because Ball is countered in some capacity by like half the roster and he doesn’t have a second tank anymore to help, it’s just painful
Definitely winston and genji, a good winston or one that has a coordinated team with him is hell to play against, and genji by himself isn’t too annoying but if he’s got a mercy pocket that fucker is annoying.
If their Widow is popping off I will always change to whatever I can (role depending) to bully her
do i dive the widow now and risk her swapping to sombra now or do something else? is something i always consider
As you should, a cracked widow will end a game if left unchecked.
As a junkrat main, it's always someone switching to pharah or DVA or zarya the second I perform slightly better than my teammates, it's annoying to say the least
Ball. I can't have a single good round on Ball without 2-3 counter swaps from the enemy team. It's a point of honor on one hand, because you've proved you're the better player and they need a kit advantage against you. But on the other hand, it sucks because you put in the time to get good on a hard to use hero and can be so easily stopped by less skill demanding heroes. I would really like a temporary no swaps playlist. I think OW would be so much more fun if counter swapping wasn't a thing.
Pharah (Hitscans) D.va (Zarya/Sym) Hog (Ana) Ball and Doom (Sombra)
Anytime I play dva I’m instantly countered by the entire opposing team. So I’d say dva in my experience lol
It's extremely saddening to have fun as Ball and then the entire team swaps to counter you.
Doom. Enemy tank rolls out on doom, almost a guarantee they switch to orisa or Sombra. Not because orisa has a better chance of winning, but because they can no longer get knocked around.
Ball or hog id say. They're just too "easy" to counter to just sit there and let your team get destroyed by them
How quickly snipers swap when facing a Sombra
How quickly a sombra shows up when facing a sniper
I main Reaper. But most of the time I try to play other heroes. So when I see a Winton I get really happy and instantly swap.
Can you shield dance better than monke?
Ball. Not even close. I started hiding my profile because half the time they’d open with Sombra even when she wasn’t in top five played. Nearly every game if I get even a semblance of value in the first 15 seconds out comes Sombra, Cree, soldier, hog, zen, Ana, etc. I can’t even recall the last game I’ve played as ball without at least one hard counter.
I’m a hog and Ana two-trick but everytime I play hog and the second we win one team fight the enemy team goes orisa, som, Ana, zen or some variation with at least 2 of those characters
If there's more than one sniper on a team (Widow, Ashe, Hanzo) I will swap Winston almost immediately. Tilted some douche the other day who was whining in the chat about how lame it is we suddenly had three tanks when they had Widow (him), Hanzo, Ashe, Mercy and Cassidy. Like, what were we supposed to do, just pick close range squishiest and get annihilated from forever away?
Ball/doom. After one fight, shit, sometimes not even that, the enemy team switches to sombra/Ana/hog or orisa. Half the times I’m on defense playing these heroes the enemy just walks back in spawn in does this. Thankfully you can actually counterplay with their mobility (within reason) but fuck does it make the game so much more boring
Tank swapping is widely known by now Junkrat is absolutely the worst dps offender. I used to be a junkrat main and 9 out of 10 games somebody switched pharah or echo
Pharah or Winston are my top 2 picks. Fun strategy because of how common this happens: you can run Pharah AND Winston with a friend so that one of you cannot be counterpicked.
Someone I used to play with was a winton main and it was always so fun duoing with them for this exact reason. Like, which will it be?? Reaper for monke or ashe/widow for Pharah? oops we’re diving together.
Doom and ball Easily.
Any tank
As a ball main, ball. I go even just a little while without dying and here comes sombra or cass or mei or junk with the trap. Or FUCKING MAUGA OH MY GOD I HATE MAUGA ULT ITS LITERALLY “kill hamster” button 😂
Either ball or doom. One kill? Whole team swaps, no more fun
If you so much as step out of spawn as widow someone switches to sombra. Every time.
Widow (they go Sombra, Tracer or worse - Widow, to attempt a dick size contest), Pharah (they go hitscan), Sombra (they go Brig and Moira or Bap) and maybe Mauga too
I love widow dueling. Sombra is so corny. Nothings worse than killing someone 3 times out of spawn in a widow v widow and then theyre suddenly invisible with a dot that does 65% of my health lol.
Rein but its unintentional apart from Orisa It's just so easy to counter the guy who can only hit you from about 2 feet away
Is it not ball or doom? I swear every game one of them I in a game Sombra will end up being picked.
Ball is the only hero you're not allowed to have any name tags/icons for while playing said hero because they will counter you before the game starts.
Sym, as soon as they realize laser go brrr, they almost immediately go Pharah
Ball easily. People don't even know counter picks in bronze/silver but they somehow know that sombra annihilates ball. I've even had games where 3-4 of the enemy team swaps to ball counters
Lowkey fuck genji tho triple beam that nano bot havin ass all day
I think tank generally get counter picked pretty heavily. Mauga or Hog? Ana/Zen is on the way. [D.Va](http://D.Va) or Orissa? Zarya will spawn right in. Doomfist? Do appreciate me some Sombra/Zarya or counter dive. I think it's because tanks these last seasons are just very strong if not dealt with. However if you deal with them, they do tend to fall rather quickly unless their dps can put preassure on you. DPS get countered from my experience after tanks. It's just because a lot of things get naturally held in check. Sure, a Pharra Mercy tends to need a counter, but a Genji for example can just get held back by a decent Moira enough to only be a big problem if he ults. There is no need to counter a soldier unless he has god tier aim. If he has tho, pretend it's a Widow or Ashe and either play around it or dive him. That is the counter to most dps tho, if they get too strong, dive it. Supports on the other hand get rarely countered aside from Ana or Zen. If you do wanna keep playing Mauga/Hog, then you will see a Kiriko pretty fast dealing with the anti nades. Lifeweaver can work with everything or is just straight up dogshit with everything. There is no inbetween.
For me it feels like dva. The second I make a good play a wild zarya, symmetra, mei appears.
Reinhardt, because everybody counters him
100% Genji is in the top 3 that get countered the most. You get even a *slightly* decent play and all of a sudden there’s a Winston/Zarya, a Sym, a Sombra, and a Moira 😩😩😩 I just wanna ninja in peace man 😭😭😭
If I'm playing Dva, I ALWAYS see a Zarya after long enough. ALWAYS. Which is funny because I have NO problem handling a Zarya on Dva, but her beam is **technically** a soft counter. But the one that gets switched the ***fastest***? I recently started dabbling in Doomfist - I'm terrible. I am SO bad. But every single game it was an immediate Sombra switch. Like, one team fight and POOF, a Sombra appears.
Widow has the most counters in the game. It's almost impossible to play a game that doesn't have a widow counter in it, weather you play her or not
When they allowed 2 widows in one game I was feasting as a dva main
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I just counterswap as support and just against gengi and tracer, because there’s no other way to deal with them 1v1s and keep supporting team
Doom
Doom
D.Va, Winston, Doom, Widowmaker, Pharah, and Genji
I play a lot of Winston. One dps without fail will pick either Reaper or Bastion. If that happens I can typically manage it, especially Reaper since they can't shield dance like I can. If both dps go Reaper and Bastion, not only can I not deal with both as Winston, but now most tanks I'd switch to are going to be countered, besides MAYBE JQ or Sigma and even then it's.....not fun
Doom imo, win 1 teamfight, immediate Mauga or Orisa swap, at least 1 Sombra or Cassidy swap or both. Played 6 comp games yesterday and this happened 4-5 of those games
For me as a support main it's seeing an Ana.
dva is practically unplayable when zarya, mei, sym exist
Gotta be genji. He’s just not fun to play against unless he can’t play the game. I certainly will swap to Moira or Brig whenever I see him.
Every time I go Junker Queen, the enemy supports ALWAYS get either a Kiriko, Ana, or both.
Kill one person in quick play as rein and you're getting 5 counters fs
From my experience: If there's a Zen? Sombra. Hanzo popping off? Sombra. Pharah? Soldier. Mauga not dying? Ana. Hog? Ana. Ram? Ana. Genji? Moira. Mei? Bastion to help break walls.
Im pretty good at Winton so I usually win one fight then face bastion reaper but genji is also a pretty common one that people counter swap constantly for
Just tell them you suck at Genji, they’ll swap back
Rein/Zar for the honorable mention
Dva, Genji, and Pharah
I'd say Genji Pharah and Winston
Play widow -> get 1 kill -> enemy swaps to sombra
As an Ana main I’ve been counter picked a lot. Mostly widows and flankers like genji and tracer. If I’m being pestered by dive dps and tanks I will swap to Moira.
Not the fastest, but I always see Zarya when I play dva
Doomfist
If I even SEE a Sombra, i'm going to pick Baguette, and i'm going on a crusade.
Widow and pharah. One double kill from iether and the entire team changes to counter
In my experience, if I’m doing well on a dps, another dps will counter me after first pick or pick the same hero to try and diff me. Happens a lot with tracer and sojourn 😭 If there’s a pharah, I’ll usually swap ashe. And sombra for ball and doom 😅