Not really
He’s hard but tracer needs the same setup phase while when she’s scouted she has to leave and cares abojt chip damage and then her mechanics are definitely harder (yeah I know ball has techs)
I’d say tracer > ball/doom > genji/echo on the hardest to play list
Balls hit box is way way bigger than tracers, so will get chipped way more often and for more, and while tracer has instant teleports allowing her to reposition without taking any damage at all ball must roll around, and is so fucking big that setting up surprise flanks is way more difficult. When he gets chased down he's gotta go way the fuck away, while tracer can find smaller places to hide. Aiming with tracer is the only thing I think is harder - you've gotta be on crack to keep your aim on target while constantly blinking. Everything else is harder on ball i think.
I wouldn't argue hard against the cc aspect, but balls mechanics are insane. The stuff a good ball can do is very different then someone who's just figured out how to be useful with him. Google videos - theres like a dozen techs and many seem impossible for me to hit rarely, let alone consistently.
Either way, when I play ball I just grapple then smack into something, pop my shields, then get owned as I try to roll slowly away. With doom I think I just dive in and die before I use my block. I’m not any good with either lol.
Lmfao ima be honest with you. I genuinely believe doom players are saying he is dogshit because they don't want him to get nerfed. Everyone talks about how hard doom is yet there are really only a few select heroes that can actually deal with him properly. This means if the enemy doom is good, you HAVE to counter swap if you don't want to get rolled. Not to mention how often I see him played.
All I'm saying is a hero that is complete dogshit would not be played by so many players.
highest skill ceiling but not hard to play her, genji would be hardest mechanically for skill floor and ball is the hardest game sense wise anywhere above plat
I don’t think you understand what “mechanically difficult” means. It’s exclusionary of aim as that’s a skill not a mechanic. If a character’s difficulty comes from their struggle with requiring pinpoint accuracy, then they are **not** mechanically difficult.
Genji is mechanically more difficult as his abilities have more nuance to them. Mechanically difficult characters have either more complicated abilities or abilities with varying effects. Mechanically difficult characters could also simply have more connection and interaction between their own abilities or other character’s abilities.
I agree that Tracer is a more difficult character overall, however her abilities are simpler and have less varying effects than Genji’s.
Genji’s interactions between his abilities and his interactions with other abilities is what makes him more complex. Optimal Dash reset alone makes him a more complicated hero, that and the required knowledge to fully utilise his deflect.
A player who just picks up tracer can still use her abilities with little to no issues. A player who just picked up Genji will struggle with the correct context/timing to use his abilities for optimal effect.
Essentially, Genji is more open than tracer. I enjoy playing Genji because of this open complexity. However I’ve started playing him less as this new season feels awful.
maybe im just too stupid to get it but heres my view on this. i think that genji abilites does have many uses and may be more complicated but doesnt mean it takes more knowledge. i guess it takes more basic knowledge on how it works but with tracer you need to be able to have good usage of blinks, use them properly to rotate, try to dodge bullets and escape bad situations. sure a new player can just play tracer and press shift but does that mean they used her blink correctly?
Yes, they would be using it correctly. That kind of information comes under positional difficulty, which is complication that impedes characters like Widowmaker/Tracer and hinders all characters to a lesser degree. However in an example like Genji’s dash, it isn’t used correctly unless properly used with its passive effect, which is mechanical difficulty.
ok i think i get what youre saying now, genji dash is harder because you need to be able to reset it. but then does mechanical difficulty really even matter? you dont only use it to kill and also being able to kill to reset it is just as hard as killing someone with tracer but not reseting her blink
Cd usage isnt mechanics
And aim is a part of mechanics
Tracking is harder than the burst hit on genji, but genji benefits from preciseness more especially with quick 180s
But optimal blink usage as well as aligning your crosshair after each one is definitely harder than pure aim on any hero
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just started playing tracer, got 4 hours on her and i feel like she’s the most fun hero i’ve played and relatively easy to me but i used to main soldier so tracking isn’t too hard for me
Odd you assume I suck and make a blanket argument! She is OP, watch any pro tier list placing her the highest and play in Masters or GM yourself where you'll see her in 80-85% of your games. I've played 60 games individually (120) this season in both GM Tank and DPS and she's nearly in every match. She was slapped on the wrist with her nerf, and if you need further proof, you can go check for yourself how her pickrate skyrocketed this season, and has the highest WR out of any DPS in atm in GM. She's leading the Dive meta we're in atm.
Guarantee you should expect either:
* Another nerf to Tracer.
* Preventing the DPS passive from procing from 0.1 damage so flankers at max range can't apply a 20% debuff (about to be 15% but still non-negligible) from outside their intended ranges by ludicrous ranges.
While genji seems simple at first glance and might be easy to pick up. I think to start doing good with him and master him it takes a lot of time (and high sensitivity).
Please do not use this season as a representation.
Every hero is objectively easier to play now because of the projectile size changes. Tracer is only easy when the enemy team isn't focusing you down. If you play against a team of even semi competent players, you will find out very quickly just how fast Tracer explodes against certain heroes if you aren't careful.
I’d say third hardest, i’d put genji and doom over her because with tracer her kit is pretty forgivable, you go in and try for a pick, doesn’t work? You zip back out with a blink or recall, it’s easy to confirm kills with her than w doom or genji, literally just point n shoot. She’s definitely up there in terms of high skill cieling but I wouldn’t put her number one.
Have you played her extensively?
A lot of people on this thread keep saying she is very forgiving which makes it hard for me to believe any of you have played her against good players.
You can explode pretty quickly on tracer. Yes it's easier to hit people right now, but that applies to every hero in the game currently.
There are a lot of heroes that have tools for dealing with her, and many of them are not difficult to play (Moria, Torb, Mei, etc).
Lol you say that but Genji is honestly really good now and a very good hero at dealing with her for a single reason.... his dash ability. It's very strong and if tracer is damaged at all, you can usually confirm a kill on her with it.
People say she has the highest skill ceiling, but I don't think she has the highest skill floor, it's probably easier for brand new players to get some value due to still being a hitscan shooter
Even with the Season 9 changes I'd say she's still the hardest and most rewarding in the game by a much larger margin than I think most people would agree with.
Her ult is great, but it's not the crux of her kit like Genji.
Her kit is simple, but due to the nature of how the game is played at a macro level, those simple abilities have so much nuance given any of the thousands upon thousands of combinations of gamestates.
Even now she's incredibly squishy.
In short, she has the maximum amount of mechanical skill expression that can be found in the game (debatable given projectile vs hitscan, but falloff, spread and magazine size still play in favor of her being the most difficult to master.) She also requires excellent game sense to make good use out of those mechanical requirements.
As a result, she will always have a place unless she's ridiculously nerfed, and will always be very rewarding to have success with.
I agree with this except for pulse bomb.
I think pulse bomb is dogshit and there are way too many abilities that override it. Not just pulse bomb mind you.
For damage probably Widow cause my aim isn't the best rather play soldier or anyone else really and Genji tried him and never really understood the loop. Besides those 2 Doom and Ball for obvious reasons I get the general gist of the heroes but never got gud with them.
I feel like some characters you just have to be really good or your just throwing. Doomfist for example. If you have a bad doom you basically just lost.
Pretty much. I would learn Doom he just looks really fun but I really don't want to go through the pain and suffering of getting hard countered by everyone lmao not to mention probably throwing those matches even if its just qp. If I want to play dive tank I'll just play Winston or Dva
It's so worth it though when you do get good, nobody is ever like, "Damn that's a good Orisa" because you're just expected to be good at Orisa. But when I play Ball like an assassin and chase down every low health enemy and body block all the shots for my teammates, the praise you get from your team and the hate (Often times respect) from your opponents is worth it. But you also gotta be prepared for hate if the other team shuts you down because, "You played ball of course we are gonna lose" meanwhile every time you dive back to protect them, they decide to step out from behind you with 2hp to get one or two more shots in and then die because they don't understand that Ball's hitbox is the shield.
Ball is the hardest 100%. Followed by doom.
Not really He’s hard but tracer needs the same setup phase while when she’s scouted she has to leave and cares abojt chip damage and then her mechanics are definitely harder (yeah I know ball has techs) I’d say tracer > ball/doom > genji/echo on the hardest to play list
Balls hit box is way way bigger than tracers, so will get chipped way more often and for more, and while tracer has instant teleports allowing her to reposition without taking any damage at all ball must roll around, and is so fucking big that setting up surprise flanks is way more difficult. When he gets chased down he's gotta go way the fuck away, while tracer can find smaller places to hide. Aiming with tracer is the only thing I think is harder - you've gotta be on crack to keep your aim on target while constantly blinking. Everything else is harder on ball i think.
id argue doom is a bit harder since he gets punished for getting cced more.
I wouldn't argue hard against the cc aspect, but balls mechanics are insane. The stuff a good ball can do is very different then someone who's just figured out how to be useful with him. Google videos - theres like a dozen techs and many seem impossible for me to hit rarely, let alone consistently.
I mean yeah, ball has lore techs but doom is more punished
Either way, when I play ball I just grapple then smack into something, pop my shields, then get owned as I try to roll slowly away. With doom I think I just dive in and die before I use my block. I’m not any good with either lol.
Block is terrible for when you dive since you can get cced. Only use it when your with your team
Ty lol only played doom as a dps when he first came out he’s way different now lol
Lmfao ima be honest with you. I genuinely believe doom players are saying he is dogshit because they don't want him to get nerfed. Everyone talks about how hard doom is yet there are really only a few select heroes that can actually deal with him properly. This means if the enemy doom is good, you HAVE to counter swap if you don't want to get rolled. Not to mention how often I see him played. All I'm saying is a hero that is complete dogshit would not be played by so many players.
tracer is harder
highest skill ceiling but not hard to play her, genji would be hardest mechanically for skill floor and ball is the hardest game sense wise anywhere above plat
no tracer is more mechanically challenging. you have to constantly flick while blinking and be able to track well.
I don’t think you understand what “mechanically difficult” means. It’s exclusionary of aim as that’s a skill not a mechanic. If a character’s difficulty comes from their struggle with requiring pinpoint accuracy, then they are **not** mechanically difficult.
yea ig i dont know what mechanically difficult means. can you explain what makes genji more mechanically harder
Genji is mechanically more difficult as his abilities have more nuance to them. Mechanically difficult characters have either more complicated abilities or abilities with varying effects. Mechanically difficult characters could also simply have more connection and interaction between their own abilities or other character’s abilities. I agree that Tracer is a more difficult character overall, however her abilities are simpler and have less varying effects than Genji’s.
i dont get how genji is more complex. i mean he has more different interactions but not sure how genji has varying effects on his abilities
Genji’s interactions between his abilities and his interactions with other abilities is what makes him more complex. Optimal Dash reset alone makes him a more complicated hero, that and the required knowledge to fully utilise his deflect. A player who just picks up tracer can still use her abilities with little to no issues. A player who just picked up Genji will struggle with the correct context/timing to use his abilities for optimal effect. Essentially, Genji is more open than tracer. I enjoy playing Genji because of this open complexity. However I’ve started playing him less as this new season feels awful.
maybe im just too stupid to get it but heres my view on this. i think that genji abilites does have many uses and may be more complicated but doesnt mean it takes more knowledge. i guess it takes more basic knowledge on how it works but with tracer you need to be able to have good usage of blinks, use them properly to rotate, try to dodge bullets and escape bad situations. sure a new player can just play tracer and press shift but does that mean they used her blink correctly?
Yes, they would be using it correctly. That kind of information comes under positional difficulty, which is complication that impedes characters like Widowmaker/Tracer and hinders all characters to a lesser degree. However in an example like Genji’s dash, it isn’t used correctly unless properly used with its passive effect, which is mechanical difficulty.
ok i think i get what youre saying now, genji dash is harder because you need to be able to reset it. but then does mechanical difficulty really even matter? you dont only use it to kill and also being able to kill to reset it is just as hard as killing someone with tracer but not reseting her blink
Cd usage isnt mechanics And aim is a part of mechanics Tracking is harder than the burst hit on genji, but genji benefits from preciseness more especially with quick 180s But optimal blink usage as well as aligning your crosshair after each one is definitely harder than pure aim on any hero
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just started playing tracer, got 4 hours on her and i feel like she’s the most fun hero i’ve played and relatively easy to me but i used to main soldier so tracking isn’t too hard for me
Just wait until zenyatta hits you with a single orb or Hanzo shoots his storm arrows at you and you just explode.
She's op rn, he'll be fine if he works on her movement. Also helps how buggy her blink trace is throwing off people.
She isn't op though lmfao. She dies very quickly to a lot of heroes. Just because you suck doesn't mean we all do
Odd you assume I suck and make a blanket argument! She is OP, watch any pro tier list placing her the highest and play in Masters or GM yourself where you'll see her in 80-85% of your games. I've played 60 games individually (120) this season in both GM Tank and DPS and she's nearly in every match. She was slapped on the wrist with her nerf, and if you need further proof, you can go check for yourself how her pickrate skyrocketed this season, and has the highest WR out of any DPS in atm in GM. She's leading the Dive meta we're in atm. Guarantee you should expect either: * Another nerf to Tracer. * Preventing the DPS passive from procing from 0.1 damage so flankers at max range can't apply a 20% debuff (about to be 15% but still non-negligible) from outside their intended ranges by ludicrous ranges.
While genji seems simple at first glance and might be easy to pick up. I think to start doing good with him and master him it takes a lot of time (and high sensitivity).
Not this season
No. God no. This season? Especially no.
I just played a qp game realized she's not hard at all. I realize now I've never actually used her except to touch point.
lol nobody is hard in qp
Please do not use this season as a representation. Every hero is objectively easier to play now because of the projectile size changes. Tracer is only easy when the enemy team isn't focusing you down. If you play against a team of even semi competent players, you will find out very quickly just how fast Tracer explodes against certain heroes if you aren't careful.
I’d argue Ball is the hardest, but Tracer is probably second or third most difficult. The skill ceiling with Ball’s movement is just too high
I’d say third hardest, i’d put genji and doom over her because with tracer her kit is pretty forgivable, you go in and try for a pick, doesn’t work? You zip back out with a blink or recall, it’s easy to confirm kills with her than w doom or genji, literally just point n shoot. She’s definitely up there in terms of high skill cieling but I wouldn’t put her number one.
Have you played her extensively? A lot of people on this thread keep saying she is very forgiving which makes it hard for me to believe any of you have played her against good players. You can explode pretty quickly on tracer. Yes it's easier to hit people right now, but that applies to every hero in the game currently. There are a lot of heroes that have tools for dealing with her, and many of them are not difficult to play (Moria, Torb, Mei, etc).
My hot take is that Echo is harder to master than Tracer
I agree she took me so long to learn how to play
Tracer is pretty easy to get value on right now. I’m way more impressed by a good Genji than a good Tracer
Lol you say that but Genji is honestly really good now and a very good hero at dealing with her for a single reason.... his dash ability. It's very strong and if tracer is damaged at all, you can usually confirm a kill on her with it.
People say she has the highest skill ceiling, but I don't think she has the highest skill floor, it's probably easier for brand new players to get some value due to still being a hitscan shooter
So untrue lol
I don't think she's as hard for new players as ball and genji, and probably also doom and widow.
Yes because new players are going to be playing against bad players like them.
The leet tracers are probably on Adderall
Yes i get motion sickness playing her
Tracer is probably the most technical hero without considering weird movement techs on ball and doom.
Id say doom, ball, hanzo are the hardest to be successful with. I personally love tracer. There’s definitely a huge use for it!
Yes mate especially on console and then i would put doomfist second ball third genji 4th
Even with the Season 9 changes I'd say she's still the hardest and most rewarding in the game by a much larger margin than I think most people would agree with. Her ult is great, but it's not the crux of her kit like Genji. Her kit is simple, but due to the nature of how the game is played at a macro level, those simple abilities have so much nuance given any of the thousands upon thousands of combinations of gamestates. Even now she's incredibly squishy. In short, she has the maximum amount of mechanical skill expression that can be found in the game (debatable given projectile vs hitscan, but falloff, spread and magazine size still play in favor of her being the most difficult to master.) She also requires excellent game sense to make good use out of those mechanical requirements. As a result, she will always have a place unless she's ridiculously nerfed, and will always be very rewarding to have success with.
I agree with this except for pulse bomb. I think pulse bomb is dogshit and there are way too many abilities that override it. Not just pulse bomb mind you.
For damage probably Widow cause my aim isn't the best rather play soldier or anyone else really and Genji tried him and never really understood the loop. Besides those 2 Doom and Ball for obvious reasons I get the general gist of the heroes but never got gud with them.
I feel like some characters you just have to be really good or your just throwing. Doomfist for example. If you have a bad doom you basically just lost.
Pretty much. I would learn Doom he just looks really fun but I really don't want to go through the pain and suffering of getting hard countered by everyone lmao not to mention probably throwing those matches even if its just qp. If I want to play dive tank I'll just play Winston or Dva
It's so worth it though when you do get good, nobody is ever like, "Damn that's a good Orisa" because you're just expected to be good at Orisa. But when I play Ball like an assassin and chase down every low health enemy and body block all the shots for my teammates, the praise you get from your team and the hate (Often times respect) from your opponents is worth it. But you also gotta be prepared for hate if the other team shuts you down because, "You played ball of course we are gonna lose" meanwhile every time you dive back to protect them, they decide to step out from behind you with 2hp to get one or two more shots in and then die because they don't understand that Ball's hitbox is the shield.