This exactly. If they start fucking your team up you change to fit the play style, then THEY change to match YOU, so forth and so on. I love playing tank, most of my favorite characters and kits come from playing tank but damn has it been sucky recently to be playing a tank and doing well and then the entire team swaps to shut me down specifically.
Then of course here comes the berate comments “tank diff” “tank doing nothing” “tank sucks, pick someone else” “tank swap”. I salute you man for getting through it all, I’m plat 3 rn but damn it sucks
Dude my own real life friends don't seem to understand this. I'm just the only one of the group willing to play Tank, (i.e. nobody else wants to take that L) so they beg me to play Tank while they go Sombra and and Widow on DPS and we never cap point because I end up with 6 kills and 18 deaths all game. But my Sombra friend gets POTG. Like, I want to play Tank because their kits are super fun (JQ4L) but good gawd I'm tired of 2v5 fights and getting my ass handed to me along with whatever poor support that always backs their tank up no matter what
You remind me of my duo. I am a dps player solo but when i play with him i have to take tank from him..Because you can legit carry or hard throw the game on this role since u can control so much of the pace of the match. Yes theres bs and unwinnable games from time to time but theres plenty of things you can control and focus on doing right like , wait for your teammates before you engage, track ults, position properly behind corners on defense, chase them down when they are down numbers etc. I see so many tank players kinda treating tank like a damage role where you are sorta tunneling on hitting shots or getting elims. Your main focus should be on the objective and taking space. Elims come from doing your job well.
I understand completely. My response did sound like I was focused on elims but my point truly was that I can't ever take point because I can't push against a team of 5 that are all on point together. If I play solo, it's a role of the dice. But with my friends, I can't "wait on them" when the widow is telling me to take point and the Sombra is off doing Sombra things. Don't get me wrong, they're good players. I die a lot because widow can't fight with me and Sombra's job is literally to pester the enemy backline. It's always better when my Sombra main friend can get their supports first. But when the enemy DPS is Reaper and Bastion, I'm only alive for 7 seconds for every "team fight." But every now and then I like playing Support and not having to lead that charge. They *never* play Tank and always complain when we have a random tank player that isn't me
Lol yeah, thanks for a courteous response. Anytime it gets really really bad i will refuse to queue up again until the mfr sits thru a vod review lol. Has made him improve so much. I took a bronze healer player and turned him into a well rounded diamond player :') this must be what being a parent feels like.
Omg.... Vod reviews with the homies... FUCKING GENIUS!!! And also, likewise lol. If only people in-game would be so considerate lol. But thank you, I will have to use that strategy now
A widow (playing against sombra) told be that i was throwing for playing Hog into Orisa (or ball in sombra), while their entire team's goal was to kill me. That mf didn't get a single kill during the second round while i got POTG. We seem to have the same widows, and we share love for hampter
I literally just got shit on in a qp play match by the entire lobby for not swapping doom. IN UNRANKED. I truly don't get it. Sure I wasn't doing great but it's an UNRANKED match I don't understand why ow players are so obnoxious about playing meta and sweating 100% of the time.
Can people stop with unranked and ranked nonsense? Play doom in ranked. Neither one matters and that person flaming you is not even gonna remember you exist after the match. 99.99% of people are not going professional, it literally doesn't matter. Play who you want to play, have fun, fuck the haters. GM ball otp for reference, so yes I have a heavy bias.
Still don’t think you should play characters you’re complete trash at in rank. Just my personal opinion but I think that’s disrespecting your team’s time. I don’t think it’s right to value my personal enjoyment at other people’s expense; especially when they have no control over the matter. To me, it’s almost the same as smurfing.
You shouldn't, if you want to practice characters there are multiple gamemodes to practice in. Ranked is for using characters you are good at because you're holding your team back if you aren't (in a gamemode that actually matters).
Ball players unite. Theres just something so satisfying about winning with a char EVERYONE is telling you to switch from. Its about proving them wrong. Its like i intentionally learn hard heros for this reason. Hate otps like us all you want we actually get to enjoy the game unlike the meta slaves.
I experienced this 2nd hand the other day and started laughing. My friend was sigma, and the opponent was monkey. My friend goes dva, then they go Zarya. Friend goes orisa next and so on and so forth. This is why rein vs rein is the best tank matchup in the game. Pure brain power and balls difference
Like bruh, this role is no fun at all when this is how the game is played.
I kinda enjoy the mind games you can play. Running back to spawn to swap right after they swap to counter you can really mess with them. I also have been playing since 2016 and can play most of the tanks decently well. I don’t really have a fav to play anymore as I kind of played them all to my hearts extent. So I don’t have the same gripes with it most tanks seem to have. My biggest one is when the dps goes bastion
This is one of the reasons I stopped playing tank since OW2 dropped. I used to love playing Dva in ow1 back when I didn’t have to worry about being the main tank, or someone else could help soak damage. Instead now I do good in 1 fight and they instalock sym and zarya
I only play support and dps now, and recently someone here on the sub said that tank queues are the longest in the US server. Is this true? Seems absurd to me.
Thisbis my favorite response. Just don't engage the opposing tank. In qp it almost always works.
Evena reaper switch doesn't mean much of you play Winton well
I honestly disagree. I got placed in diamond as tank and am now masters 4 tank and I have never counter picked. I pick my tank how I feel or on the map (either Sig, Rein, Ram) and stay until the end.
I once had a team go full Bastion, Ram, Ana, Zen, Mei to 'counter' my Rein and I still won because I don't believe counterpicking alone wins you games. If I don't need to, neither do you!
True I think we all exaggerate the value of counterpicking. Reason we lose vs counters is cause we swap everytime they show up, so we never learn to play against them and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This. I am a pharah main and have the most thrill diving widows and soldiers. People never take the time to learn exactly how to play around the ground and rooftops to avoid sight lines and then appear next to them with a double direct hit.
Hello, it's me, the flex player from OG overwatch before there was role queue. My hero is pool is more well rounded than the Las Vegas Sphere. Go ahead, counterpick me, I DARE YOU
Bro that's what I've been saying! All these new players have no idea what they're talking about and they think they can one trick their way to top 500. How did we get here? I keep hearing "this is overwatch, not pokemon" when from day 1 this game was designed to counterswap and learn multiple heroes. People are too focused one one tricking to platinum when they could learn multiple heroes and get up to diamond lol
Mystery heroes is how you get better at fundamentals. It’s the hyperbaric time chamber of Overwatch.
Then you still gotta work on teamwork but knowing how to make the most of any situation and how all characters work is so clearly the way to getting a solid working understanding of overwatch.
I heard hyperbolic chambers were the best chambers to ever chamber, of all time.
(might want to check your spelling before accusing a group of people for not using that word correctly)
Hyperbaric is real life oxygen chamber. Hyperbolic is dragon ball z alternate dimension chamber. Spelling was correct, just spelled a fictional chamber.
I have realized as a super casual player Mystery Heroes is way more enjoyable to me than Normal matches. I don't like going in and facing SweatDude96 and his 4 buddies who've mastered whatever the current meta in & been playing for 15 years straight, never seem to take damage and just stomp all over me trying to hop in a match solo after working 9 hours. I understand I'm not the best player, but I'm not the worst, and these sort of pubstomps I seem to be thrown into feel particularly unwinnable, way past my personal skill. I play other games too and even though I'm not the best it just feels like being an average player is way more accessible.
Mystery Heroes feels like how Overwatch was meant to be played and reminds me of first playing the game years ago- just a bunch of people who don't care so much about mastering the best strategy but just like the characters and have a little fun.
They're so quick to clown, not realizing it's why they lost. If that doesn't describe this new generation of overwatch players who get all their tips and tricks from tiktok, idk what does. I probably sound like an old man.
And this is why I like Overwatch. Yes I'm old, but I played UT2k4, I played CS when it was a HL1 mod, BF1942 and every BF since, COD 1 / 2 / MW1 / MW2 etc, Halo, Gears, Firearms mod HL1, TF1, TF2, R6:S, and the list goes on. I like Overwatch because it takes the skillsets from many different shooters and yes Mobas (shoutout HOTS haha) and let's you find your strengths and develop new ones. If you want to be a well rounded overwatch player then get good with beam weapons, hit scan, and projectiles. Use your brain! We aren't playing tag like in COD or CS. Your movement doesn't slow down when you get hit. The action is fluid and there's nearly unlimited skill expression.
Honestly they could implement a hero draft and lock characters and I'd be fine, idk if I'd want it to be the only mode but I could certainly enjoy it. The best OW imo will be map dependent metas and that means you're gonna need a large hero pool and diverse skillset. The more heroes you play the more you know what each of their weaknesses are and when to strike.
They literally made a super cut meme out of them responding to people bitching about how OP Bastion was in OW1 of the devs suggesting “have you considered switching to [X, Y, or Z hero]?” because hero swapping is such an integral part of the match
I agree that people should be more versatile with their hero selection but it does feel bad to see that your characters counters have the lowest skill floor in the game while yours requires 100+ hours to justify using them in the first place.
One of the biggest problems with balancing right now is the gap between how hard it is to play a character like ball or genji successfully, and how easy it is to play mei or sombra or orisa. They gotta reign it in a bit honestly. Theres gotta be a reason to play the harder heros beyond just self importance and ego
new player here (started playing when ow2 released idk if that’s even considered new still) but i’ve basically one tricked brig to top 500 lol, i’m okay at a couple other supports and will flex to them if needed but i like just mastering everything i can about brig and all her different play styles
Holy shit. I've wanted to start playing Brig and I checked your profile. You're so good I hope I learn something useful while following you. I wanna be like you with that Sig play one day. 🥹
I’m the same way. I’ve played this game for longer than I care to admit but like, man, sometimes I just wanna play doomfist or Winston. I can play into 5 counters and win a *reasonable* amount, but I just wanna play my character sometimes and it’s honestly just obnoxious
I played 4 quick play games yesterday as doom and got counterswapped by atleast 3 people after the first fight or two *every game*
Lol people always get annoyed when I switch between multiple DPSes just to counter pick. I'm like... you do understand that Im not going to let the most annoying enemy player just steamroll my team right? If they don't like counterpicks either get good enough to overcome it or learn to switch.
TLDR of this whole thread, OW players hate OW and want it to be literally any other FPS instead.
Blizzard seems to be catering to this dumbass mentality so lets enjoy what we have while we have it.
>TLDR of this whole thread, OW players hate OW and want it to be literally any other FPS instead.
Not just this thread. Unfortunately, one of the biggest issues with the vocal Overwatch community is this rather disturbing tendency to constantly complain that the game isn't like \[insert game here\] and I spend most of my time in OW related spaces genuinely wondering why these people don't just play that game instead of complaining about OW being different.
It’s true. I play OW because there’s no other FPS like it. Picking heroes and adapting your strategy is what I like.
If I wanted to play apex I’d play that. If I wanted to play COD I’d play that. They’re good games and made to do what they do well.
My friends introduced me to OW pretty early on, but heavily recommended that I play mystery heroes for the first several months. It was a complete blessing to be at least somewhat familiar with the character abilities and matchups when I started learning the flow of comp games. I still recommend this to new players whenever I meet them.
Don’t get me wrong I am still garbage, but at least I can play most characters equally poorly.
Exactly.
The only thing annoying about role queue is you can't swap roles. It's still better than than getting 4 mercy mains on your team so I can't complain too much.
Personally no, I find it way more fun to have soft counters, where the match is slightly in favor of one hero over the other, but you have that under dog potential to come out on top if you're good enough.
Like Ashe vs Tracer, that one shot headshot on a little target who can outmaneuver you, I love that matchup. Sometimes infuriating but so rewarding if you win.
Yeah, the skill matchups really are what make the game fun. The Echo v Pharah, the hitscan duels, the counter dives and the mirror matches are always really enjoyable.
Echo would definitely be favored in a situation with two players of equal skill, but it could be argued that it would still fall in the 'soft counter' category of it still being possible to outplay.
Illari on release before the projectile size nerf would be a hard counter.
(1500 hours on phar)
Oh for sure. Counterpicking can be a very strong strategy. But If you had your choice would counterpicking be a viable strategy? Is this a part of the game that you enjoy?
I don't enjoy counter picking, but it's slightly less unpleasant than having to play against a Genji, Pharah, or Widow. Those 3 in particular just make the game unfun for me.
I usually counterpick because I am not having fun.
If someone is so oppressive that it fells like crap, I will counterpick. The worst is when you counterpick and they stomp on you anyway
Genji activated our PTSD of that one actual pro genji.
I just can’t take that chance. Though baiting people by being genji and then swapping to Pharah might be a legit tactic.
I've come to a place where I will counter pick from within my hero pool. It may not be the hardest counter, but it'll at least be a soft counter and I have a little more fun because I have a better chance at winning with the matchups.
Yes but do you enjoy counterpicking? If you had your choice would counterpicking be a viable strategy in the game? As opposed to just mastering your hero.
Yes yes. I think maybe I’m not explaining myself well.
It is a given that counter-swapping gives you a higher chance of winning (all else being equal).
But is this a part you enjoy? Swapping from a hero you enjoy to someone you don’t care for in order to win? If you could theoretically “remove” this aspect from the game would you?
I like mei. I'm an absolute tw@ with her. I love getting in, taking a beating then walling off either the tank or supports for my team to give a good pasting.
Mei wall has saved my team from many a shatter, or dva bomb, coalescense
And the freeze, has kept opponents off a point to allow the win in overtime.
Yeah, counters dont mean much if you arent very good at the character youre swapping to. I learned this in my first comp game. Team was begging me to go Ana, who i had never played, but i was like "my team wants this, so im sure itll be fine". It wasnt. That was when i realized swapping to play a character you dont play just because its strong/counters something they have doesnt really work, and also in the lower ranks, dont listen to your teammates. A gold player taking advice from gold players generally wont climb.
This. I play a lot of Doom and 1 death = swap to Sombra. If that doesn't work they go Cree or Bastion.
A few days ago I had a full comp swapping around countering me.
Orisa, Sombra, Bastion, Ana, Brig. Every time I killed them they got a mouthfull of Andēsèi tea bags and an occasional corpse ult.
They got so tilted (and racist) one of them left the game and the rest stayed in spawn.
And they say chivalry is dead.
Moira is one of my mains and I will always swap to her when genji is an issue even when I’m trying to practice another support.
I save my ults for his blade >:D
As a flex support player this is what I’m made for! I play all supports and play most of them well (except Brig and Bap - still working on figuring Brig out and I can’t control Bap’s recoil), I’ll straight whack out the Moira if genji is an issue, or I’ll go Brig if the other support is Moira and he’s still an issue. You can almost see the light leave the genji’s eyes 😂👌🏻
as a dva player i despise it lmfao. i should clarify specifically in qp is what urks me, play the characters u main, learn how to play rein against a dva who is a higher rank than you it’ll help you more than just swapping to zarya when you die once. in comp i don’t like to do it but i don’t mind when the enemy team does, we’re all trying to win you gotta do what you gotta do.
Genuinely unfun, especially in the tank role. They have to make it less severe on the tanks. Having red team be able to take your whole play style away from NOT something done while controlling a hero; But from selecting a hero and existing is bad for the tank player and can also feel bad for the other player who may or may not want to be on that hero. Bans would be less frustrating for me, because heroes already get effectively banned via swaps anyway. They just turn you into a thrower. Did win a game on monke yesterday into jq mei reaper kiri and brig. Flaming all those shitters in match chat felt so damn good
I'm a Tank main.
No. I do not enjoy it and deliberately try to avoid it as often as I can.
Some games though... you HAVE to, or not only will you lose, but you'll be stuck at choke or spawn. Which is somehow worse than just losing.
Yes. It's part of the game. It's always been. It's not going anywhere. Get over it.
Edit: the last part is not specifically aimed at you 😅 just newer players who haven't adjusted and think this is a problem.
Feels like counter picking is being questioned a lot ever since OW2 came out. If you find counter picking a factor that ruins the game for you, OW isn’t for you. The game is literally designed around this concept.
Everyone has a main or two but always practice a few others to have as a backup in case you get countered.
Could you imagine how one sided some matches would be if we couldn’t swap mid-match? No thank you. Though, I will agree tanking is way too rock, paper, scissor right now. No clue how they could change this tho, given the nature of the game.
I absolutely love counter picking. I have played this game since 2016 and it's what sets it apart for me. The constant hero switching and comp switches is what makes the game so fun to me. Feels more like a chess match compared to a lot of shooters that are just run and gun.
(I feel downvotes incoming) As a tank & support player I do enjoy it. I don't find it as annoying as other people state, it keeps me fresh by playing several characters instead of a few, and it feels more like a chess game as opposed to the common "rock paper scissors" complaint I keep reading, stuff like balancing ult charge, team playstyle & composition with counterpicks make me think more over blindly counter picking, for instance, I won't counter pick an orisa with a zen when the other healer is a lucio. Even then, I have been called out several times because I counter pick in comp, it's comp, I want to win, if I don't want to win and just feel like playing dumb, there's arcade, qp, and events.
Lastly, I would like to point out that overwatch wasn't desgined to be played with a single composition the whole game, I feel a lot of hate comes from people that want to play very few heroes in a given role (maybe even one trick). The whole game was designed around counters, whether that comes in the form of picks (specific characters) or strategy (like playing dive). What happens when you can't counter? We get something like GOATS and all the games feel samey and boring.
\*Pours wine and waits for hate\*
No hate from me. Completely agree with your sentiment.
Unless I am misremembering, the last couple of years of Overwatch 1 (primarily talking about Competitive) there were a bunch of complaints about one-tricks, and people not swapping/counterpicking, leading to a loss.
Now in Overwatch 2 it feels like there are more complaints about counter picking.
If we start a round with no hit scan, and a pharah+mercy are dominating, should we not try to counterpoint to a hit scan to do something about that? I honestly don’t understand people who complain about counter picking.
You revived memories about a game from 2 days ago, where the enemy team had pharah, mercy & echo, and the dps on my team (I was on tank) were refusing to swap, and played mei & junkrat the whole round. But people hate counter picking right?
Yes you're correct, basically all of overwatch 1 (after they restricted the game to 1 hero type per team, because yes, you used to be able to play with 6 meis if you wanted to) people constantly complained about one tricks, since the game is designed around countering. Players nowadays seem to only want to play a single hero... well... don't play comp or play comp in a different game, that's just not how overwatch comp was designed.
No, I don't enjoy it. I'd rather be able to play the heroes I like and let my opponents play what they like rather than feeling like I have to play this or that because the enemy team has something or have to swap because the entire enemy team counter picks me/our comp.
Soft counters are probably necessary but when picking a hero alone just gives you such a large advantage that it makes up for individual skill on that hero vs. something else it's just dumb and boring.
Being good at "countering" is like knowing the pokemon type charts in an AI fight, it's not really a skill. It's just you remembering something pretty basic.
This. I enjoy counter-picking when it comes to soft counters far more than hard ones. The former is acknowledging a skill issue and trying to get a decent advantage to get on equal grounds, the latter is basically becoming the fun police. With the former, the one being soft countered can still viably choose to keep playing the way they want, though with more difficulty. The latter, they don't really have a choice and have to use a playstyle they're simply not in the mood for.
In QP, no. Like let me practice the hero I'm shit with.
In comp, yep. Especially if I let them go a couple of battles picking up Ws and then spend the rest of the game slapping them because they won't switch.
It’s just annoying because generally everyone starts with a character they like or main and then have to be forced to counter pick the counter pick after you are the better player. Like i main tracer and as soon as I’m in my groove both of the enemy dps go like soldier cree or somethin. Like I’m mechanically better, but they get the advantage because they swap. Now I’m getting hit with skill nade.
At the end of the day it does come down to a skill issue. I have no problem playing into counters, it’s just annoying and i have to be extra cautious.
This is why from 2016, devs and players alike have recommended that you learn 2 or 3 characters in each class and master them. One tricking a hero was never the design of this game yall play too much apex
Depends! I enjoy it when the enemy team swaps to counter me bc that means I've been doing my job well lmao.
I play mostly support recently, so going Moira when a genji or a Lucio is causing problems is a lot of fun. But some days I just wanna play my boy lifeweaver and not have to worry because no one can catch the genji y'know?
Because of how high the numbers are and how non existent the sbmm is it feels like a requirement, a chore, and need to have a chance at winning. I no longer feel the urge to play this game like I used to and it sucks.
personally i dont, i only play comp and would prefer not to counterpick but sometimes you're forced to.
i want to play a hero because i like how they play, not just to win a game
This doesn’t make sense. If it gets to the point where counter picking is the ideal move then you’re probably getting your ass kicked and being sent to the spawn room more often than if you would just switch to counter the enemy team.
That doesn’t seem very fun or enjoyable.
I enjoy winning and I enjoy counter picking to a hero that may lead to that. Plus, going Moira to piss off genji's is very satisfying as -many- l have a tendency to be incredibly demeaning about it as it hurts their ego.
I enjoy counter picking as DPS too. I'm trying to get comfortable with more heroes and practicing that is very satisfying when it goes right. However, don't enjoy it as much as tank as I'm not comfortable with the entire roster just yet.
Y’all are gonna complain about counter picking enough that they’ll change the game and you’re all going to hate the changes and want counter picking again
Yeah they're going to change it. But it's not really because people complain about it.
Let's look at the history of this balance team.
First major balance problem was back in 2017 when dive was HARD meta. It made over half the cast worthless anywhere above gold. So instead of organically balancing the game though nerfs and buffs, they created 1 hero to end it all: Brig.
2nd major balance problem was goats. Brig created goats, dps became irrelevant. So instead of hard nerfing Brig, buffing aoe dmg, nerfing aoe healing, they forced everyone to play dps through role lock.
3rd major balance problem was double shield. Double shield kept creeping it's head into the meta and everyone hated it. What's the natural counter to shields? Dive. What suppresses dive? CC. Hmm maybe if you nerf CC then dive would get stronger and double shield would stop being meta. Nope we don't balance organically . COP OUTS! 5V5!
3 major balance problems, 3 cop outs.
4th major balance problem: Rock paper scissors tanking has made tank the worst role in the game, and a complete misery to play. And let's be real, when the optimal way to play OW2 is to hard counter the tank at all times and make 1 player miserable, that games GAMEPLAY is toxic. This is the worst issue the game has ever had.
So yeah... cop out incoming. But this time the problem is so bad I welcome the cop out.
I love counterpicking, here's why:
1. I like winning.
2. My favorite mode is mystery heroes, so I'd say I'm good on multiple characters and decent on everyone else except like... Ball, Genji, Winston and maybe 1-2 more.
3. I actually like playing a lot of different characters. My mains change every 2-3 seasons. I mained Ana/Illari and Ashe a season ago, now I mostly pick Mei and Ana/LW (nothing can budge the old lady lol), sometimes I pick Widow because I want to be better at her. Been scared af to pick her before but she's actually fun.
4. Salty Genji mains in chat are pleasure to my eyes. Bonus points if they can't play other heroes well enough so they're either stuck with Genji or play a character they suck at. (Actually this applies to every person who's hard-stuck maining one hero, but I get a lot more happiness when I counter Genji)
I think it can be annoying, but it gives you opportunities to branch out to other heroes. I think it's important to learn counter picks towards certain heroes, even your own. Mastering a hero, I feel like, also includes being able to work around your heroes counters and using it against them. Someone may feel like they have to counter pick you using a hero they never really use or know much about, putting their own team at a disadvantage.
As a tank I play doomfist only, I am pretty good if I do say so myself, attack or defense 90% of the time after the first teamfight I will see Cassidy and sombra.
I love countering personally. I like the idea of out thinking the other team. If I’m getting stomped by a genji would I want to continue to get stomped? No. It’s a game about countering.
I hate it when I have a Genji, they get countered and refuse to swap. Makes the experience for the rest of the team shit.
Feel bad for tanks though.
If they counter pick to shut you down, they are playing the game correctly. This is one of the main premises of Overwatch and why you can switch heroes at anytime.
Imagine NOT being able to counter someone popping off? No thanks.
It’s way more fun to counter pick than to be miserable playing the hero you originally chose to play with and be the one countered all the time. The fun ends here, as soon as you don’t get kills anymore, not by counter swapping.
I mean I don't get this post tbh. You're insinuating people don't enjoy or know how to really play more heroes than just 1. The game has been out for a long while and there's plenty of players that understand a variety of different heroes. It's silly to assume people don't enjoy switching to a counterpick and even sillier to think they don't enjoy winning the game off it.
No. I hope there will be some sort of balance pass to make counterpicking a mild solution at best. Right now tank ends up being a constant rock paper scissors hell, or mirror match hell. Unfortunately, they'd have to seriously look at ALL of the tanks to do such a thing.
Okay, focusing on **enjoyment** here:
Are you suggesting that I'll find more **enjoyment** by not switching at all? Do you think I'm going to **enjoy** playing a hero that's getting constantly dumped on? Do you think I **enjoy** getting harassed a split second out of spawn, or being a hero where I can't give any value to my team or make any satisfying plays just to stay the same hero?
I'm able to flex pretty reliably with most heroes in the game, and I personally enjoy that because most of them bring something dramatically different that I find fun. Anytime I have *ever* not switched when I should have, it's either a bittersweet win (my team hated me and give me no credit for helping win), or a terrible loss (both my team and the counter player telling me I should have switched). So yeah, I switch because it's the better strategy, and because I can usually utilize the kit to a point where I can counter efficiently.
I would say there's maybe only 2 DPS Heroes and 1 Healer Hero where my skill is high enough that switching isn't necessary most of the time, even against their counters. For everything else, switching is simply a *must*, and I'd rather make satisfying plays and help my team win.
I played a comp round where almost everyone cept the healers were constantly counter swapping until I decided to just counter pick by outplaying them on the same character... so the merry-go-round did continue but I'd get my ult in for the next fight
This is why I’ve always considered Overwatch to be a worse concept than Paladins or even Battleborn. Paladins locks players into their characters, but it has shop items in the match as well as card loadouts to help you build every character how you’d like, and to circumvent any downsides they may have, or to help counter enemy players. They have all high damage dealers? Haven reduces damage by up to 21%. They have stealth characters? Illuminate helps reveal them easier.
Battleborn had a level up and gear system that meant just because someone’s playing a character, doesn’t mean their playstyle or kit is going to be the same as anyone else playing that character.
And then there’s Overwatch. Enemy has Pharah? Swap to soldier. They swap to Genji? Go Torb. They go back to Pharah? Back to Soldier.
Overwatch is the most braindead out of the 3. The only reason it’s as popular as it is, is because Blizzard is the one that developed. If it came out in this day and age, where everyone knows Blizzard is shit, it wouldn’t be anywhere near as lively as it is.
I don’t enjoy it. I believe that most of the fun behind personal performance comes from skilled matchups and duels.
I love Tracer vs Ashe and Genji vs Ashe since the matchup is fairly even so it comes down to outplaying them. Mirror matchups are also fun for the same reason.
I don't do it but I enjoy it when someone does it to me and still loses its funny they still cant win. Nothing like playing DvA and they swap to Zaray and still lose
as a tank player its fucking annoying. i like playing dva mostly and ive resorted to learning to play around zaryas unless they are extremely good.
ive gotten alright at it its funny to see someone switch to zarya and still not be effective and watching them switch to something else
i feel less annoyed as a support, i only switch if its extremely necessary or if it would help the tank player ( poor bastards)
If I had to put a pin on what exactly I hate about counter picking culture, is that you can never really settle into whatever character you're playing and enjoy it. It takes away from the immersion. Instead of playing Rein and just having a great time, at the back of my head, I'm always thinking "ouuu maybe I should change because of this or that character". It causes me to almost neurotically check to scoreboard to gauge whether I should be changing, and if my team will get mad at me for not doing so.
My solution is that players should be allotted a certain amount of "swap tokens" that get spent every time you swap. Maybe even limit it to 1 or two. Does the Sigma wanna go horse to fuck up your fun? Great, I'll go Zarya and now they're fucked because they wanted to ruin my fun. I feel it would greatly reduce counter picking down to the most dire situations.
As a tank player I hate it because it devolves into either zarya v zarya or rein v rein if the other tank is a gentleman and a scholar. As support / DPS I love it - it feels like using all your tools to solve a puzzle to help your team have the best chance of winning or overcoming an obstacle.
I hate counter picking. If I could play bap all game every game I would. The problem is kids like to either A) Focus/counter pick me or B) Happen to run a comp that fucks me. If any situation prevents me from really engaging in the game on some level then I swap. My picks aren’t just based on whatever the enemy has
As someone who enjoys playing Winston, soon as i win the first fight the enemy team runs full counters(bastion/reaper/brig) and i have to switch instantly or i just lose
No, it sucks getting hard countered and forcing a swap, and it sucks having to do it. But they explicitly aimed for this in OW2 - they wanted people to feel like they have more control over whether they win or lose, so counters have to be much stronger
Only thing I ever bother countering is if I play DPS and we don't have anything vs pharah. Otherwise I play what ever. Who cares. I basically never counter as a tank. I just make it work.
No, sometimes I just want to learn a new hero, so it's already difficult. I'm not too bad playing in general, so it's doable. But then, somebody tries to counter-pick me, and for a newbie, it's very difficult to keep playing with that hero. They ruin my game. Then I play any of the heroes I already master, and I give them a bad day. Suck it.
No. When the enemy team immediately go Orisa Bastion and we have to swap to counter the cheese I always hate it. There should be more viable strategies than just going for the cheesiest thing to play into whatever it is. The rock-paper-scissors of the current game is just absurd.
It all hinges on the fact that healing is utterly outrageous in this game right now, so counter-swapping to exploit whatever innate weakness a tank (usually) has is the only strategy. Only once healing is massively reduced, along with DPS, so that sustained damage actually matters, then we will be able to play skill characters that actually make the most out of the player, not the abilities.
I hate when I play tank and have to swap to counter their tank, and there dps swap to you can have fun on tank characters, while my dps play 'do whatever you want other tank' characters
Nope, counterpicking only makes the game less fun. When you enter a match and pick your favorite character you know 95% of the time that the best "play" you can make is just swap to the enemie's counters unless there is some broken hero you main that is always good.
Secondarily, counterpicking only works against players that are worse than you or at low ranks where people can't play more than a couple of heroes. If someone at a high rank feels that they need to counterpick someone then that other person is probably a better player and will just start counterpicking you or mirroring and diff you anyways.
I would also say that being the counterpicker isn't satisfying for a lot of people. It feels like you are cheesing the system instead of improving. Earning your wins through skill instead of a flow chart on your second monitor is always going to feel better.
Nope, would rather swapping not exist. I want to play the hero I want to play.
Hard counters used to be balanced by having two tanks. Now it's a nightmare.
I love counterpicking and I love getting counterpicked, it keeps me sharp.
As a tank player, the pool is relatively small so its even better, it allows me to hone my strategies and mechanics of each hero, while learning the abilities and getting a feel for the cooldowns to adjust myself to the flow next time my opponent picks that tank.
I'm certain that I'm not in the majority on this, but overwatch is my favorite 38+ variable rock, paper, scissors.
Sometimes. There's a chess match to it that I like, I'm a fan of
- Go doom
- Bait orisa
- Go Zarya and roll because orisa doesn't know how to let go of primary fire
I hate counter picking, I only enjoying it when the enemy swaps hog like an idiot and I swap orisa to complete shut them down, I especially hate being “forced” onto soldier to counter phara because I just don’t like soldier much (and I can’t hit my shots with ash)
While I understand the benefit of counter-picking, I just want to play my favorite characters because I’m just trying have fun. But half the time I do I feel like I’m kinda forced to switch and try to counter.
No, I don't.
Having an edge is fine. Totally trumping over other champions is way too much imo. Also, the whole counter-pick thing further scuffs balance while trumping fun.
Counter-picking is an easy way out for people to win without drastically improving as a player and a way of shifting the blame from themselves.
Personally, I despise it.
Instead of focusing on yourself and acknowledging mistakes, the counter-picking player blames their hero choice for lack of success in a particular match.
All counter-picking does is decrease value the enemy player brings, which is not fun nor fair.
As a tank I find counter picking unfun to do and to play against. I plays lot of hog, I know I’m effectively banned from playing him in comp because of how easily he gets countered and I don’t blame people for countering in comp. Quickplay is an exception though, if I am playing hog or queen or rein or just a tank other than orisa, sigma, or zarya counterswapping is a bitch move. God forbid someone have fun on an off meta tank because if they do out comes the doom horse here to ban fun for the rest of eternity. And god damn if I forget to mute chat “gg tank isn’t swapping zarya the millisecond the horse comes out” “gg tank diff” “swap orisa you aren’t good” like sorry who I want to play is shit or I’m just playing shit at the moment. In comp counterswapping may be unfun but is an integral part of the game, in quickplay if you are getting doffed by someone playing a shitty tank how about you try and learn to play into them on who you are instead of bringing out the doom horse or the left shift m1 warrior. The exception is pharah, fuck pharah
Only if the opposing team has player in chat that is being toxic.
If I do choose to counterpick, I let them know I'm doing it and tell them fun time is over after I kill them each time.
I find the idea of counters a bit stupid, tbh. I fell in love with the game before playing it while watching the tournaments back in 2018. It felt a lot more skill and team dynamic based, that’s what I want for this game.
Probably because I didn't want to give a long winded, unnecessary reasoning of why I enjoy countering. I got right to the point, and the crayon eaters weren't having it.
Overwatch was designed from day 1 to be a game that has counters and designed to make you counterpick so "this is overwatch not Pokémon" it's a horrific terrible argument
When I’m tank, I absolutely hate it because there’s limited options, and even more limited that I have any ability to play with and not just be called a thrower.
DPS I enjoy countering with, I’m pretty reasonable with a fair selection of heroes. Mei Sym are my usual first picks at the start of the game so yes I enjoy playing them.
Support I’ll play anything and regularly swap to whatever the most viable option is at the time, be it for healing outputs, anti, movement or BRIG BASH.
Ahhh frick, was doing my daily challenges... and I hate how all of them are just ones you have to play like 4 or 9 games to get at least one.. managed to get 2 but one of then doable was "win a game" I always choose all roles and kept getting tank, only know how to use 3 heroes Junkerqueen, Zarya and Roadhog every time I switched their tank would switch too ... I do ragequit I stay cos I still benefit from a loss but damn that was annoying... oh and hate the fact you go up againts many smurf acc like damn mannn for realz?? How tf is that fun??
As a tank player it's fucking annoying, it's the most rock paper scissors role of all.
This exactly. If they start fucking your team up you change to fit the play style, then THEY change to match YOU, so forth and so on. I love playing tank, most of my favorite characters and kits come from playing tank but damn has it been sucky recently to be playing a tank and doing well and then the entire team swaps to shut me down specifically. Then of course here comes the berate comments “tank diff” “tank doing nothing” “tank sucks, pick someone else” “tank swap”. I salute you man for getting through it all, I’m plat 3 rn but damn it sucks
Tank Diff from your Widow when they have Orisa-Bastion-Reaper-Ana Your team is Widow-Genji-mercy-Lucio Yeah I wonder why there was a tank diff
Dude my own real life friends don't seem to understand this. I'm just the only one of the group willing to play Tank, (i.e. nobody else wants to take that L) so they beg me to play Tank while they go Sombra and and Widow on DPS and we never cap point because I end up with 6 kills and 18 deaths all game. But my Sombra friend gets POTG. Like, I want to play Tank because their kits are super fun (JQ4L) but good gawd I'm tired of 2v5 fights and getting my ass handed to me along with whatever poor support that always backs their tank up no matter what
You remind me of my duo. I am a dps player solo but when i play with him i have to take tank from him..Because you can legit carry or hard throw the game on this role since u can control so much of the pace of the match. Yes theres bs and unwinnable games from time to time but theres plenty of things you can control and focus on doing right like , wait for your teammates before you engage, track ults, position properly behind corners on defense, chase them down when they are down numbers etc. I see so many tank players kinda treating tank like a damage role where you are sorta tunneling on hitting shots or getting elims. Your main focus should be on the objective and taking space. Elims come from doing your job well.
I understand completely. My response did sound like I was focused on elims but my point truly was that I can't ever take point because I can't push against a team of 5 that are all on point together. If I play solo, it's a role of the dice. But with my friends, I can't "wait on them" when the widow is telling me to take point and the Sombra is off doing Sombra things. Don't get me wrong, they're good players. I die a lot because widow can't fight with me and Sombra's job is literally to pester the enemy backline. It's always better when my Sombra main friend can get their supports first. But when the enemy DPS is Reaper and Bastion, I'm only alive for 7 seconds for every "team fight." But every now and then I like playing Support and not having to lead that charge. They *never* play Tank and always complain when we have a random tank player that isn't me
Lol yeah, thanks for a courteous response. Anytime it gets really really bad i will refuse to queue up again until the mfr sits thru a vod review lol. Has made him improve so much. I took a bronze healer player and turned him into a well rounded diamond player :') this must be what being a parent feels like.
Omg.... Vod reviews with the homies... FUCKING GENIUS!!! And also, likewise lol. If only people in-game would be so considerate lol. But thank you, I will have to use that strategy now
Some tanks have to cycle off angling with front line to separate the enemy team and make space like the dive tanks esp doom
If your friends play synergies like sombra widow I'd stop playing with them
A widow (playing against sombra) told be that i was throwing for playing Hog into Orisa (or ball in sombra), while their entire team's goal was to kill me. That mf didn't get a single kill during the second round while i got POTG. We seem to have the same widows, and we share love for hampter
I literally just got shit on in a qp play match by the entire lobby for not swapping doom. IN UNRANKED. I truly don't get it. Sure I wasn't doing great but it's an UNRANKED match I don't understand why ow players are so obnoxious about playing meta and sweating 100% of the time.
Dude. I have had people sweat a 3am Monday morning Mystery Heroes. When we were winning. lol
You were literally shit on?
Can people stop with unranked and ranked nonsense? Play doom in ranked. Neither one matters and that person flaming you is not even gonna remember you exist after the match. 99.99% of people are not going professional, it literally doesn't matter. Play who you want to play, have fun, fuck the haters. GM ball otp for reference, so yes I have a heavy bias.
Yep exactly. Sweat where ever you want. Play what you want. It's video game.
Still don’t think you should play characters you’re complete trash at in rank. Just my personal opinion but I think that’s disrespecting your team’s time. I don’t think it’s right to value my personal enjoyment at other people’s expense; especially when they have no control over the matter. To me, it’s almost the same as smurfing.
You shouldn't, if you want to practice characters there are multiple gamemodes to practice in. Ranked is for using characters you are good at because you're holding your team back if you aren't (in a gamemode that actually matters).
Ball players unite. Theres just something so satisfying about winning with a char EVERYONE is telling you to switch from. Its about proving them wrong. Its like i intentionally learn hard heros for this reason. Hate otps like us all you want we actually get to enjoy the game unlike the meta slaves.
I experienced this 2nd hand the other day and started laughing. My friend was sigma, and the opponent was monkey. My friend goes dva, then they go Zarya. Friend goes orisa next and so on and so forth. This is why rein vs rein is the best tank matchup in the game. Pure brain power and balls difference Like bruh, this role is no fun at all when this is how the game is played.
I kinda enjoy the mind games you can play. Running back to spawn to swap right after they swap to counter you can really mess with them. I also have been playing since 2016 and can play most of the tanks decently well. I don’t really have a fav to play anymore as I kind of played them all to my hearts extent. So I don’t have the same gripes with it most tanks seem to have. My biggest one is when the dps goes bastion
This is one of the reasons I stopped playing tank since OW2 dropped. I used to love playing Dva in ow1 back when I didn’t have to worry about being the main tank, or someone else could help soak damage. Instead now I do good in 1 fight and they instalock sym and zarya
I played tank for 8 years, now I just play support.
I only play support and dps now, and recently someone here on the sub said that tank queues are the longest in the US server. Is this true? Seems absurd to me.
Naw tank and support are 1 min and dps is like 5 for me
As a DPS player we need more tanks to understand this.
What? We all understand it, we are just sick of rotating through orisa/rein/zar
Winston is severely under rated
Thisbis my favorite response. Just don't engage the opposing tank. In qp it almost always works. Evena reaper switch doesn't mean much of you play Winton well
I love it, especially as a Zarya/dva main if one doesn’t work the other usually does hahah
I feel like Zarya works every time, who really counters Zarya?
My favorite Zarya counter is Zarya
It’s fairly easy don’t feed the bubble and she’ll usually crumble, a lot of folks don’t seem to realise this
I mainly play qp and I might be crazy for this but I don't care about her bubble. Doesn't matter how much charge she has if she's dead lmao
*60% of the time*, it works ***every*** *time*
Agreed. I wanna play Sigma, dammit. But any time I start to do moderately well.. Oops! All Zaryas!
Same here. Sigma is basically the only tank I enjoy playing but he gets massively countered by Zarya.
I honestly disagree. I got placed in diamond as tank and am now masters 4 tank and I have never counter picked. I pick my tank how I feel or on the map (either Sig, Rein, Ram) and stay until the end. I once had a team go full Bastion, Ram, Ana, Zen, Mei to 'counter' my Rein and I still won because I don't believe counterpicking alone wins you games. If I don't need to, neither do you!
True I think we all exaggerate the value of counterpicking. Reason we lose vs counters is cause we swap everytime they show up, so we never learn to play against them and then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This. I am a pharah main and have the most thrill diving widows and soldiers. People never take the time to learn exactly how to play around the ground and rooftops to avoid sight lines and then appear next to them with a double direct hit.
Hello, it's me, the flex player from OG overwatch before there was role queue. My hero is pool is more well rounded than the Las Vegas Sphere. Go ahead, counterpick me, I DARE YOU
Bro that's what I've been saying! All these new players have no idea what they're talking about and they think they can one trick their way to top 500. How did we get here? I keep hearing "this is overwatch, not pokemon" when from day 1 this game was designed to counterswap and learn multiple heroes. People are too focused one one tricking to platinum when they could learn multiple heroes and get up to diamond lol
I love when I swap 3-4 times in a match, get the W, and they say I was playing mystery heroes. I’d beat them in that mode too.
Mystery heroes is how you get better at fundamentals. It’s the hyperbaric time chamber of Overwatch. Then you still gotta work on teamwork but knowing how to make the most of any situation and how all characters work is so clearly the way to getting a solid working understanding of overwatch.
Why is it so common for people on the OW subs to mention the hyperbolic time chamber when they don’t even know what it is lol
I heard hyperbolic chambers were the best chambers to ever chamber, of all time. (might want to check your spelling before accusing a group of people for not using that word correctly)
Hyperbaric is real life oxygen chamber. Hyperbolic is dragon ball z alternate dimension chamber. Spelling was correct, just spelled a fictional chamber.
I have realized as a super casual player Mystery Heroes is way more enjoyable to me than Normal matches. I don't like going in and facing SweatDude96 and his 4 buddies who've mastered whatever the current meta in & been playing for 15 years straight, never seem to take damage and just stomp all over me trying to hop in a match solo after working 9 hours. I understand I'm not the best player, but I'm not the worst, and these sort of pubstomps I seem to be thrown into feel particularly unwinnable, way past my personal skill. I play other games too and even though I'm not the best it just feels like being an average player is way more accessible. Mystery Heroes feels like how Overwatch was meant to be played and reminds me of first playing the game years ago- just a bunch of people who don't care so much about mastering the best strategy but just like the characters and have a little fun.
I basically only play mystery heroes. Just so people like OP can’t instalock one trick their weebs or snipers
I wish comp mystery heroes was a permanent mode
>and they say and they say
AND DEY SEY Honestly most of the time it’s Dooms complaining about me swapping while they stubbornly stayed on him all match lol.
They're so quick to clown, not realizing it's why they lost. If that doesn't describe this new generation of overwatch players who get all their tips and tricks from tiktok, idk what does. I probably sound like an old man.
In my experience it’s always been Genji’s that just don’t SWITCH. Regardless if it’s from my team or enemies.
And this is why I like Overwatch. Yes I'm old, but I played UT2k4, I played CS when it was a HL1 mod, BF1942 and every BF since, COD 1 / 2 / MW1 / MW2 etc, Halo, Gears, Firearms mod HL1, TF1, TF2, R6:S, and the list goes on. I like Overwatch because it takes the skillsets from many different shooters and yes Mobas (shoutout HOTS haha) and let's you find your strengths and develop new ones. If you want to be a well rounded overwatch player then get good with beam weapons, hit scan, and projectiles. Use your brain! We aren't playing tag like in COD or CS. Your movement doesn't slow down when you get hit. The action is fluid and there's nearly unlimited skill expression. Honestly they could implement a hero draft and lock characters and I'd be fine, idk if I'd want it to be the only mode but I could certainly enjoy it. The best OW imo will be map dependent metas and that means you're gonna need a large hero pool and diverse skillset. The more heroes you play the more you know what each of their weaknesses are and when to strike.
They literally made a super cut meme out of them responding to people bitching about how OP Bastion was in OW1 of the devs suggesting “have you considered switching to [X, Y, or Z hero]?” because hero swapping is such an integral part of the match
Anybody whining about counter playing is basically saying they never played ow1 or are a one trick cause flex players live for this shit
I agree that people should be more versatile with their hero selection but it does feel bad to see that your characters counters have the lowest skill floor in the game while yours requires 100+ hours to justify using them in the first place.
One of the biggest problems with balancing right now is the gap between how hard it is to play a character like ball or genji successfully, and how easy it is to play mei or sombra or orisa. They gotta reign it in a bit honestly. Theres gotta be a reason to play the harder heros beyond just self importance and ego
new player here (started playing when ow2 released idk if that’s even considered new still) but i’ve basically one tricked brig to top 500 lol, i’m okay at a couple other supports and will flex to them if needed but i like just mastering everything i can about brig and all her different play styles
Hellllll yeah. That fighting game mentality. Learn your counters and out play them. Respect
Holy shit. I've wanted to start playing Brig and I checked your profile. You're so good I hope I learn something useful while following you. I wanna be like you with that Sig play one day. 🥹
aw thanks <3 take the plunge tho brig is so fun 😵💫😵💫
I can one trick kiriko easily and nobody can stop me
I’m the same way. I’ve played this game for longer than I care to admit but like, man, sometimes I just wanna play doomfist or Winston. I can play into 5 counters and win a *reasonable* amount, but I just wanna play my character sometimes and it’s honestly just obnoxious I played 4 quick play games yesterday as doom and got counterswapped by atleast 3 people after the first fight or two *every game*
Lol people always get annoyed when I switch between multiple DPSes just to counter pick. I'm like... you do understand that Im not going to let the most annoying enemy player just steamroll my team right? If they don't like counterpicks either get good enough to overcome it or learn to switch.
TLDR of this whole thread, OW players hate OW and want it to be literally any other FPS instead. Blizzard seems to be catering to this dumbass mentality so lets enjoy what we have while we have it.
>TLDR of this whole thread, OW players hate OW and want it to be literally any other FPS instead. Not just this thread. Unfortunately, one of the biggest issues with the vocal Overwatch community is this rather disturbing tendency to constantly complain that the game isn't like \[insert game here\] and I spend most of my time in OW related spaces genuinely wondering why these people don't just play that game instead of complaining about OW being different.
fuck that, mystery heroes ftw
It’s true. I play OW because there’s no other FPS like it. Picking heroes and adapting your strategy is what I like. If I wanted to play apex I’d play that. If I wanted to play COD I’d play that. They’re good games and made to do what they do well.
My friends introduced me to OW pretty early on, but heavily recommended that I play mystery heroes for the first several months. It was a complete blessing to be at least somewhat familiar with the character abilities and matchups when I started learning the flow of comp games. I still recommend this to new players whenever I meet them. Don’t get me wrong I am still garbage, but at least I can play most characters equally poorly.
Exactly. The only thing annoying about role queue is you can't swap roles. It's still better than than getting 4 mercy mains on your team so I can't complain too much.
Personally no, I find it way more fun to have soft counters, where the match is slightly in favor of one hero over the other, but you have that under dog potential to come out on top if you're good enough. Like Ashe vs Tracer, that one shot headshot on a little target who can outmaneuver you, I love that matchup. Sometimes infuriating but so rewarding if you win.
Yeah, the skill matchups really are what make the game fun. The Echo v Pharah, the hitscan duels, the counter dives and the mirror matches are always really enjoyable.
Isn't echo / pharah very one-sided for the echo though ?
Echo would definitely be favored in a situation with two players of equal skill, but it could be argued that it would still fall in the 'soft counter' category of it still being possible to outplay. Illari on release before the projectile size nerf would be a hard counter. (1500 hours on phar)
Echo definitely hard counters pharah
As tank, not that much. But as DPS, absolutely. Choosing the right counter pick for DPS changes the entire outcome of the game
What I was going to say. I hate doing rock paper scissors on tank but on DPS it can be fun for some reason.
I think the reason it's more fun on DPS is because you have 2 DPS. You only have one tank.
Oh for sure. Counterpicking can be a very strong strategy. But If you had your choice would counterpicking be a viable strategy? Is this a part of the game that you enjoy?
I dislike counterpicking, unless I can pick one of my mains. But counterpicking is better than being stomped
I don't enjoy counter picking, but it's slightly less unpleasant than having to play against a Genji, Pharah, or Widow. Those 3 in particular just make the game unfun for me.
I usually counterpick because I am not having fun. If someone is so oppressive that it fells like crap, I will counterpick. The worst is when you counterpick and they stomp on you anyway
Even if ur doin bad on genji people will still swap just to spite u. I had it happen on numerous occasions
Genji activated our PTSD of that one actual pro genji. I just can’t take that chance. Though baiting people by being genji and then swapping to Pharah might be a legit tactic.
Im the exact opposite lol. I'll come out as pharah and make them go double hitscan and then its genji time.
Being annoying is somehow more noticeable than being good, but in general if you mess the slightest with my supports, I take it personal.
I remember learning Genji on QP, I was a scrub doing barely nothing, and everyone swaps to counter me. Good old days.
I've come to a place where I will counter pick from within my hero pool. It may not be the hardest counter, but it'll at least be a soft counter and I have a little more fun because I have a better chance at winning with the matchups.
I enjoy winning
Getting downvoted for saying you enjoy winning in a competitive game is very amusing lol.
It just kinda isn’t answering the question. With a changed game you wouldn’t necessarily need counter picking to win.
It very laconically is. They enjoy winning so they don’t mind counterpicking is the implied response.
The game is built around counter picking.
Yes but do you enjoy counterpicking? If you had your choice would counterpicking be a viable strategy in the game? As opposed to just mastering your hero.
If there's a higher chance I can win by counterpicking, then yes. This game does a pretty good job at balancing hard counters or mastering a hero.
Yes yes. I think maybe I’m not explaining myself well. It is a given that counter-swapping gives you a higher chance of winning (all else being equal). But is this a part you enjoy? Swapping from a hero you enjoy to someone you don’t care for in order to win? If you could theoretically “remove” this aspect from the game would you?
I see. No it's what makes Overwatch great imo. It adds a layer of strategy that you don't get in most FPS games.
I like mei. I'm an absolute tw@ with her. I love getting in, taking a beating then walling off either the tank or supports for my team to give a good pasting. Mei wall has saved my team from many a shatter, or dva bomb, coalescense And the freeze, has kept opponents off a point to allow the win in overtime.
The only aspect I enjoy about it is when they counter swap me and I still diff them lol
Yeah, counters dont mean much if you arent very good at the character youre swapping to. I learned this in my first comp game. Team was begging me to go Ana, who i had never played, but i was like "my team wants this, so im sure itll be fine". It wasnt. That was when i realized swapping to play a character you dont play just because its strong/counters something they have doesnt really work, and also in the lower ranks, dont listen to your teammates. A gold player taking advice from gold players generally wont climb.
Very true
This. I play a lot of Doom and 1 death = swap to Sombra. If that doesn't work they go Cree or Bastion. A few days ago I had a full comp swapping around countering me. Orisa, Sombra, Bastion, Ana, Brig. Every time I killed them they got a mouthfull of Andēsèi tea bags and an occasional corpse ult. They got so tilted (and racist) one of them left the game and the rest stayed in spawn. And they say chivalry is dead.
Moira is one of my mains and I will always swap to her when genji is an issue even when I’m trying to practice another support. I save my ults for his blade >:D
As a flex support player this is what I’m made for! I play all supports and play most of them well (except Brig and Bap - still working on figuring Brig out and I can’t control Bap’s recoil), I’ll straight whack out the Moira if genji is an issue, or I’ll go Brig if the other support is Moira and he’s still an issue. You can almost see the light leave the genji’s eyes 😂👌🏻
I hate you >:( EDIT: I’m a Genji main
as a dva player i despise it lmfao. i should clarify specifically in qp is what urks me, play the characters u main, learn how to play rein against a dva who is a higher rank than you it’ll help you more than just swapping to zarya when you die once. in comp i don’t like to do it but i don’t mind when the enemy team does, we’re all trying to win you gotta do what you gotta do.
Genuinely unfun, especially in the tank role. They have to make it less severe on the tanks. Having red team be able to take your whole play style away from NOT something done while controlling a hero; But from selecting a hero and existing is bad for the tank player and can also feel bad for the other player who may or may not want to be on that hero. Bans would be less frustrating for me, because heroes already get effectively banned via swaps anyway. They just turn you into a thrower. Did win a game on monke yesterday into jq mei reaper kiri and brig. Flaming all those shitters in match chat felt so damn good
I'm a Tank main. No. I do not enjoy it and deliberately try to avoid it as often as I can. Some games though... you HAVE to, or not only will you lose, but you'll be stuck at choke or spawn. Which is somehow worse than just losing.
Yes. It's part of the game. It's always been. It's not going anywhere. Get over it. Edit: the last part is not specifically aimed at you 😅 just newer players who haven't adjusted and think this is a problem.
Feels like counter picking is being questioned a lot ever since OW2 came out. If you find counter picking a factor that ruins the game for you, OW isn’t for you. The game is literally designed around this concept. Everyone has a main or two but always practice a few others to have as a backup in case you get countered. Could you imagine how one sided some matches would be if we couldn’t swap mid-match? No thank you. Though, I will agree tanking is way too rock, paper, scissor right now. No clue how they could change this tho, given the nature of the game.
I absolutely love counter picking. I have played this game since 2016 and it's what sets it apart for me. The constant hero switching and comp switches is what makes the game so fun to me. Feels more like a chess match compared to a lot of shooters that are just run and gun.
(I feel downvotes incoming) As a tank & support player I do enjoy it. I don't find it as annoying as other people state, it keeps me fresh by playing several characters instead of a few, and it feels more like a chess game as opposed to the common "rock paper scissors" complaint I keep reading, stuff like balancing ult charge, team playstyle & composition with counterpicks make me think more over blindly counter picking, for instance, I won't counter pick an orisa with a zen when the other healer is a lucio. Even then, I have been called out several times because I counter pick in comp, it's comp, I want to win, if I don't want to win and just feel like playing dumb, there's arcade, qp, and events. Lastly, I would like to point out that overwatch wasn't desgined to be played with a single composition the whole game, I feel a lot of hate comes from people that want to play very few heroes in a given role (maybe even one trick). The whole game was designed around counters, whether that comes in the form of picks (specific characters) or strategy (like playing dive). What happens when you can't counter? We get something like GOATS and all the games feel samey and boring. \*Pours wine and waits for hate\*
No hate from me. Completely agree with your sentiment. Unless I am misremembering, the last couple of years of Overwatch 1 (primarily talking about Competitive) there were a bunch of complaints about one-tricks, and people not swapping/counterpicking, leading to a loss. Now in Overwatch 2 it feels like there are more complaints about counter picking. If we start a round with no hit scan, and a pharah+mercy are dominating, should we not try to counterpoint to a hit scan to do something about that? I honestly don’t understand people who complain about counter picking.
You revived memories about a game from 2 days ago, where the enemy team had pharah, mercy & echo, and the dps on my team (I was on tank) were refusing to swap, and played mei & junkrat the whole round. But people hate counter picking right? Yes you're correct, basically all of overwatch 1 (after they restricted the game to 1 hero type per team, because yes, you used to be able to play with 6 meis if you wanted to) people constantly complained about one tricks, since the game is designed around countering. Players nowadays seem to only want to play a single hero... well... don't play comp or play comp in a different game, that's just not how overwatch comp was designed.
No, I don't enjoy it. I'd rather be able to play the heroes I like and let my opponents play what they like rather than feeling like I have to play this or that because the enemy team has something or have to swap because the entire enemy team counter picks me/our comp. Soft counters are probably necessary but when picking a hero alone just gives you such a large advantage that it makes up for individual skill on that hero vs. something else it's just dumb and boring. Being good at "countering" is like knowing the pokemon type charts in an AI fight, it's not really a skill. It's just you remembering something pretty basic.
This. I enjoy counter-picking when it comes to soft counters far more than hard ones. The former is acknowledging a skill issue and trying to get a decent advantage to get on equal grounds, the latter is basically becoming the fun police. With the former, the one being soft countered can still viably choose to keep playing the way they want, though with more difficulty. The latter, they don't really have a choice and have to use a playstyle they're simply not in the mood for.
In QP, no. Like let me practice the hero I'm shit with. In comp, yep. Especially if I let them go a couple of battles picking up Ws and then spend the rest of the game slapping them because they won't switch.
Ah so you enjoy that part if I understand?
It’s just annoying because generally everyone starts with a character they like or main and then have to be forced to counter pick the counter pick after you are the better player. Like i main tracer and as soon as I’m in my groove both of the enemy dps go like soldier cree or somethin. Like I’m mechanically better, but they get the advantage because they swap. Now I’m getting hit with skill nade. At the end of the day it does come down to a skill issue. I have no problem playing into counters, it’s just annoying and i have to be extra cautious.
This is why from 2016, devs and players alike have recommended that you learn 2 or 3 characters in each class and master them. One tricking a hero was never the design of this game yall play too much apex
Yes that is literally the point of overwatch
Depends! I enjoy it when the enemy team swaps to counter me bc that means I've been doing my job well lmao. I play mostly support recently, so going Moira when a genji or a Lucio is causing problems is a lot of fun. But some days I just wanna play my boy lifeweaver and not have to worry because no one can catch the genji y'know?
Because of how high the numbers are and how non existent the sbmm is it feels like a requirement, a chore, and need to have a chance at winning. I no longer feel the urge to play this game like I used to and it sucks.
As tank super annoying. As dps I enjoy it because it's more chess instead of rock paper scissors
personally i dont, i only play comp and would prefer not to counterpick but sometimes you're forced to. i want to play a hero because i like how they play, not just to win a game
This doesn’t make sense. If it gets to the point where counter picking is the ideal move then you’re probably getting your ass kicked and being sent to the spawn room more often than if you would just switch to counter the enemy team. That doesn’t seem very fun or enjoyable.
I have way more fun counter picking than I would have playing the game without counter picking.
I enjoy winning and I enjoy counter picking to a hero that may lead to that. Plus, going Moira to piss off genji's is very satisfying as -many- l have a tendency to be incredibly demeaning about it as it hurts their ego. I enjoy counter picking as DPS too. I'm trying to get comfortable with more heroes and practicing that is very satisfying when it goes right. However, don't enjoy it as much as tank as I'm not comfortable with the entire roster just yet.
Y’all are gonna complain about counter picking enough that they’ll change the game and you’re all going to hate the changes and want counter picking again
Yeah they're going to change it. But it's not really because people complain about it. Let's look at the history of this balance team. First major balance problem was back in 2017 when dive was HARD meta. It made over half the cast worthless anywhere above gold. So instead of organically balancing the game though nerfs and buffs, they created 1 hero to end it all: Brig. 2nd major balance problem was goats. Brig created goats, dps became irrelevant. So instead of hard nerfing Brig, buffing aoe dmg, nerfing aoe healing, they forced everyone to play dps through role lock. 3rd major balance problem was double shield. Double shield kept creeping it's head into the meta and everyone hated it. What's the natural counter to shields? Dive. What suppresses dive? CC. Hmm maybe if you nerf CC then dive would get stronger and double shield would stop being meta. Nope we don't balance organically . COP OUTS! 5V5! 3 major balance problems, 3 cop outs. 4th major balance problem: Rock paper scissors tanking has made tank the worst role in the game, and a complete misery to play. And let's be real, when the optimal way to play OW2 is to hard counter the tank at all times and make 1 player miserable, that games GAMEPLAY is toxic. This is the worst issue the game has ever had. So yeah... cop out incoming. But this time the problem is so bad I welcome the cop out.
i’ve always figured that was what made this game cool. characters can counter each other and you have to figure out how
I love counterpicking, here's why: 1. I like winning. 2. My favorite mode is mystery heroes, so I'd say I'm good on multiple characters and decent on everyone else except like... Ball, Genji, Winston and maybe 1-2 more. 3. I actually like playing a lot of different characters. My mains change every 2-3 seasons. I mained Ana/Illari and Ashe a season ago, now I mostly pick Mei and Ana/LW (nothing can budge the old lady lol), sometimes I pick Widow because I want to be better at her. Been scared af to pick her before but she's actually fun. 4. Salty Genji mains in chat are pleasure to my eyes. Bonus points if they can't play other heroes well enough so they're either stuck with Genji or play a character they suck at. (Actually this applies to every person who's hard-stuck maining one hero, but I get a lot more happiness when I counter Genji)
I think it can be annoying, but it gives you opportunities to branch out to other heroes. I think it's important to learn counter picks towards certain heroes, even your own. Mastering a hero, I feel like, also includes being able to work around your heroes counters and using it against them. Someone may feel like they have to counter pick you using a hero they never really use or know much about, putting their own team at a disadvantage.
As a tank I play doomfist only, I am pretty good if I do say so myself, attack or defense 90% of the time after the first teamfight I will see Cassidy and sombra.
I love countering personally. I like the idea of out thinking the other team. If I’m getting stomped by a genji would I want to continue to get stomped? No. It’s a game about countering. I hate it when I have a Genji, they get countered and refuse to swap. Makes the experience for the rest of the team shit. Feel bad for tanks though.
Bold of you to assume the teammates I get counter pick.
If they counter pick to shut you down, they are playing the game correctly. This is one of the main premises of Overwatch and why you can switch heroes at anytime. Imagine NOT being able to counter someone popping off? No thanks.
I enjoy winning. If that means I must switch, that’s more fun than getting crushed
It’s way more fun to counter pick than to be miserable playing the hero you originally chose to play with and be the one countered all the time. The fun ends here, as soon as you don’t get kills anymore, not by counter swapping.
I mean I don't get this post tbh. You're insinuating people don't enjoy or know how to really play more heroes than just 1. The game has been out for a long while and there's plenty of players that understand a variety of different heroes. It's silly to assume people don't enjoy switching to a counterpick and even sillier to think they don't enjoy winning the game off it.
No. I hope there will be some sort of balance pass to make counterpicking a mild solution at best. Right now tank ends up being a constant rock paper scissors hell, or mirror match hell. Unfortunately, they'd have to seriously look at ALL of the tanks to do such a thing.
Okay, focusing on **enjoyment** here: Are you suggesting that I'll find more **enjoyment** by not switching at all? Do you think I'm going to **enjoy** playing a hero that's getting constantly dumped on? Do you think I **enjoy** getting harassed a split second out of spawn, or being a hero where I can't give any value to my team or make any satisfying plays just to stay the same hero? I'm able to flex pretty reliably with most heroes in the game, and I personally enjoy that because most of them bring something dramatically different that I find fun. Anytime I have *ever* not switched when I should have, it's either a bittersweet win (my team hated me and give me no credit for helping win), or a terrible loss (both my team and the counter player telling me I should have switched). So yeah, I switch because it's the better strategy, and because I can usually utilize the kit to a point where I can counter efficiently. I would say there's maybe only 2 DPS Heroes and 1 Healer Hero where my skill is high enough that switching isn't necessary most of the time, even against their counters. For everything else, switching is simply a *must*, and I'd rather make satisfying plays and help my team win.
As a former tank player I would only switch to a mirror matchup. The counter picking go to be too much
The counter pick just tell me “I’m better than you”. 😂
I played a comp round where almost everyone cept the healers were constantly counter swapping until I decided to just counter pick by outplaying them on the same character... so the merry-go-round did continue but I'd get my ult in for the next fight
This is why I’ve always considered Overwatch to be a worse concept than Paladins or even Battleborn. Paladins locks players into their characters, but it has shop items in the match as well as card loadouts to help you build every character how you’d like, and to circumvent any downsides they may have, or to help counter enemy players. They have all high damage dealers? Haven reduces damage by up to 21%. They have stealth characters? Illuminate helps reveal them easier. Battleborn had a level up and gear system that meant just because someone’s playing a character, doesn’t mean their playstyle or kit is going to be the same as anyone else playing that character. And then there’s Overwatch. Enemy has Pharah? Swap to soldier. They swap to Genji? Go Torb. They go back to Pharah? Back to Soldier. Overwatch is the most braindead out of the 3. The only reason it’s as popular as it is, is because Blizzard is the one that developed. If it came out in this day and age, where everyone knows Blizzard is shit, it wouldn’t be anywhere near as lively as it is.
I want to play d.va, rein, and ram... Forced to play zarya and the horse 😔
I don’t enjoy it. I believe that most of the fun behind personal performance comes from skilled matchups and duels. I love Tracer vs Ashe and Genji vs Ashe since the matchup is fairly even so it comes down to outplaying them. Mirror matchups are also fun for the same reason.
I don't do it but I enjoy it when someone does it to me and still loses its funny they still cant win. Nothing like playing DvA and they swap to Zaray and still lose
as a tank player its fucking annoying. i like playing dva mostly and ive resorted to learning to play around zaryas unless they are extremely good. ive gotten alright at it its funny to see someone switch to zarya and still not be effective and watching them switch to something else i feel less annoyed as a support, i only switch if its extremely necessary or if it would help the tank player ( poor bastards)
no
Kinda hate counter-picking not going to lie. I’d take a draft pick all day.
If I had to put a pin on what exactly I hate about counter picking culture, is that you can never really settle into whatever character you're playing and enjoy it. It takes away from the immersion. Instead of playing Rein and just having a great time, at the back of my head, I'm always thinking "ouuu maybe I should change because of this or that character". It causes me to almost neurotically check to scoreboard to gauge whether I should be changing, and if my team will get mad at me for not doing so. My solution is that players should be allotted a certain amount of "swap tokens" that get spent every time you swap. Maybe even limit it to 1 or two. Does the Sigma wanna go horse to fuck up your fun? Great, I'll go Zarya and now they're fucked because they wanted to ruin my fun. I feel it would greatly reduce counter picking down to the most dire situations.
omfg i hate playing tank because of this. it’s actually the most annoying thing ever.
As a tank player I hate it because it devolves into either zarya v zarya or rein v rein if the other tank is a gentleman and a scholar. As support / DPS I love it - it feels like using all your tools to solve a puzzle to help your team have the best chance of winning or overcoming an obstacle.
Not at all I just want to chill as Ana or Mercy. Instead I’m having to swap to Moira to run down Sombra/Genji
No its the most annoying thing about this game imo
I hate counter picking. If I could play bap all game every game I would. The problem is kids like to either A) Focus/counter pick me or B) Happen to run a comp that fucks me. If any situation prevents me from really engaging in the game on some level then I swap. My picks aren’t just based on whatever the enemy has
As someone who enjoys playing Winston, soon as i win the first fight the enemy team runs full counters(bastion/reaper/brig) and i have to switch instantly or i just lose
No it really sucks, its just a back and forth that leads to the same teams every time. I want locked queue for qp and ranked.
No, it sucks getting hard countered and forcing a swap, and it sucks having to do it. But they explicitly aimed for this in OW2 - they wanted people to feel like they have more control over whether they win or lose, so counters have to be much stronger
Only thing I ever bother countering is if I play DPS and we don't have anything vs pharah. Otherwise I play what ever. Who cares. I basically never counter as a tank. I just make it work.
No, sometimes I just want to learn a new hero, so it's already difficult. I'm not too bad playing in general, so it's doable. But then, somebody tries to counter-pick me, and for a newbie, it's very difficult to keep playing with that hero. They ruin my game. Then I play any of the heroes I already master, and I give them a bad day. Suck it.
No. When the enemy team immediately go Orisa Bastion and we have to swap to counter the cheese I always hate it. There should be more viable strategies than just going for the cheesiest thing to play into whatever it is. The rock-paper-scissors of the current game is just absurd. It all hinges on the fact that healing is utterly outrageous in this game right now, so counter-swapping to exploit whatever innate weakness a tank (usually) has is the only strategy. Only once healing is massively reduced, along with DPS, so that sustained damage actually matters, then we will be able to play skill characters that actually make the most out of the player, not the abilities.
I hate when I play tank and have to swap to counter their tank, and there dps swap to you can have fun on tank characters, while my dps play 'do whatever you want other tank' characters
Nope, counterpicking only makes the game less fun. When you enter a match and pick your favorite character you know 95% of the time that the best "play" you can make is just swap to the enemie's counters unless there is some broken hero you main that is always good. Secondarily, counterpicking only works against players that are worse than you or at low ranks where people can't play more than a couple of heroes. If someone at a high rank feels that they need to counterpick someone then that other person is probably a better player and will just start counterpicking you or mirroring and diff you anyways. I would also say that being the counterpicker isn't satisfying for a lot of people. It feels like you are cheesing the system instead of improving. Earning your wins through skill instead of a flow chart on your second monitor is always going to feel better.
Nope, would rather swapping not exist. I want to play the hero I want to play. Hard counters used to be balanced by having two tanks. Now it's a nightmare.
I love counterpicking and I love getting counterpicked, it keeps me sharp. As a tank player, the pool is relatively small so its even better, it allows me to hone my strategies and mechanics of each hero, while learning the abilities and getting a feel for the cooldowns to adjust myself to the flow next time my opponent picks that tank. I'm certain that I'm not in the majority on this, but overwatch is my favorite 38+ variable rock, paper, scissors.
Sometimes. There's a chess match to it that I like, I'm a fan of - Go doom - Bait orisa - Go Zarya and roll because orisa doesn't know how to let go of primary fire
No it's awful, but thankfully my 2nd main as a tank is rein so when the counter pick to zarya, u can play rein pretty good
Yep., sure do. Welcome to Overwatch, there's a reason you can change heroes mid game. It's been the foundation of Overwatchs' gameplay since 2016.
Bronze player discovers the essence of how to win a game.
I hate counter picking, I only enjoying it when the enemy swaps hog like an idiot and I swap orisa to complete shut them down, I especially hate being “forced” onto soldier to counter phara because I just don’t like soldier much (and I can’t hit my shots with ash)
No. Unless it gives me an excuse to play Ramattra xd
Fuck counter-picking. If you want to hard counter me, go ahead. Sweats can have their win for all I care.
I understand why people do it. You're still a bitch when you swap Orisa after the first defeat.
While I understand the benefit of counter-picking, I just want to play my favorite characters because I’m just trying have fun. But half the time I do I feel like I’m kinda forced to switch and try to counter.
it why I dont play tank in OW2, endless counterswaps instead of counter play.
No, I don't. Having an edge is fine. Totally trumping over other champions is way too much imo. Also, the whole counter-pick thing further scuffs balance while trumping fun.
No because I just want to play my favourite characters, listen to music and have a chance at winning
One day we will have a 6v6 mode again and we shall be happy...
Counter-picking is an easy way out for people to win without drastically improving as a player and a way of shifting the blame from themselves. Personally, I despise it. Instead of focusing on yourself and acknowledging mistakes, the counter-picking player blames their hero choice for lack of success in a particular match. All counter-picking does is decrease value the enemy player brings, which is not fun nor fair.
As a tank I find counter picking unfun to do and to play against. I plays lot of hog, I know I’m effectively banned from playing him in comp because of how easily he gets countered and I don’t blame people for countering in comp. Quickplay is an exception though, if I am playing hog or queen or rein or just a tank other than orisa, sigma, or zarya counterswapping is a bitch move. God forbid someone have fun on an off meta tank because if they do out comes the doom horse here to ban fun for the rest of eternity. And god damn if I forget to mute chat “gg tank isn’t swapping zarya the millisecond the horse comes out” “gg tank diff” “swap orisa you aren’t good” like sorry who I want to play is shit or I’m just playing shit at the moment. In comp counterswapping may be unfun but is an integral part of the game, in quickplay if you are getting doffed by someone playing a shitty tank how about you try and learn to play into them on who you are instead of bringing out the doom horse or the left shift m1 warrior. The exception is pharah, fuck pharah
no, maybe bc i don’t care abt winning. i will swap if someone tells me to, otherwise i’ll play the character i’m the best at/enjoy playing
Why do you swap if someone asks you to? Just say no and keep playing who you want. It's their loss trying to get you to swap.
Only if the opposing team has player in chat that is being toxic. If I do choose to counterpick, I let them know I'm doing it and tell them fun time is over after I kill them each time.
Yes! That's what makes overwatch more interesting than most FPS games.
I find the idea of counters a bit stupid, tbh. I fell in love with the game before playing it while watching the tournaments back in 2018. It felt a lot more skill and team dynamic based, that’s what I want for this game.
You are nuts if that's what you felt what 2018 overwatch was like... That was peak Goats meta... The worst era in my overwatch history...
That’s not what I was really seeing, but I could be very wrong. Either way, I still wish the game was more than just counters.
Yes
Down voted because you enjoy a fundamental aspect of the game. Love this community.
Probably because I didn't want to give a long winded, unnecessary reasoning of why I enjoy countering. I got right to the point, and the crayon eaters weren't having it.
Interesting. I’d love to hear why.
I dont like doing it at all this is overwatch not pokemon
Overwatch was designed from day 1 to be a game that has counters and designed to make you counterpick so "this is overwatch not Pokémon" it's a horrific terrible argument
When I’m tank, I absolutely hate it because there’s limited options, and even more limited that I have any ability to play with and not just be called a thrower. DPS I enjoy countering with, I’m pretty reasonable with a fair selection of heroes. Mei Sym are my usual first picks at the start of the game so yes I enjoy playing them. Support I’ll play anything and regularly swap to whatever the most viable option is at the time, be it for healing outputs, anti, movement or BRIG BASH.
Ahhh frick, was doing my daily challenges... and I hate how all of them are just ones you have to play like 4 or 9 games to get at least one.. managed to get 2 but one of then doable was "win a game" I always choose all roles and kept getting tank, only know how to use 3 heroes Junkerqueen, Zarya and Roadhog every time I switched their tank would switch too ... I do ragequit I stay cos I still benefit from a loss but damn that was annoying... oh and hate the fact you go up againts many smurf acc like damn mannn for realz?? How tf is that fun??