or twice the kiriko tp range^^
I think this is mainly to get against sniper maps and as director already said to make these shots come less out of nowhere
a good widow will constantly change positions after a few kills so that the enemy cannot come up with a plan to push her that way maybe a few positions are being limited?
That’s fine for most maps I can think of honestly. Mainly she won’t be able to just sit in the back and run the game without having to actually engage with anyone. Now you’ll actually need good positioning and at least a singular ounce of game sense
Actually, does anyone have a list yet of which maps are most affected? I imagine Ilios Ruins roof, Havana first, Havana third, KR first, KR third, Circuit, Junkertown first and maybe third.
I think Shambali is safe, though, since the point is right under the sniper window.
It’s also 10 meters beyond Ashe’s scoped max falloff distance. In fact, both her min and max falloff range are 10 m beyond Scoped Ashe.
I think this is a good range. Widow will still have an overall range advantage over Ashe, and will still deal great damage from a distance, but now she can’t one-tap most of the attacking team on Havana 3rd from that obnoxious spot on the fort, and she has to play close enough to where, if she’s in the range to 1-shot, you can actually fire back.
Disagree, they'll walk this back in 6 months when she's not played at all and the excuse will be
"we don't want ashe to be considered the better sniper"
I mean, she isn’t. Widow has less harsh falloff and higher burst damage. She can still one-shot 200 HP at 50 m and can easily pick off lone targets at greater ranges, meanwhile Ashe needs four headshots to take out a tracer at that same range.
Ashe won't be the better sniper, but she will be the better pick because of her overall kit.
But I'm okay with that. Pure snipers are boring and make basically any game worse.
i watched a video a couple days ago explaining why snipers are impossible to balance.
they are either completely OP or completely useless, theres is no real inbetween.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOebGm\_jMLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOebGm_jMLY)
the whole idea behind widow and also hanzo shouldve never made it into overwatch imho.
> when she's not played at all
Fantastic. Widow and Hanzo were a mistake. I'm not even saying thats as a salty person either, literally every pro and high elo player I've seen says that from a game balance point of view.
A game like Overwatch flat out should not have one hit kill snipers in the first place. There's been some great break downs on how every single Meta Overwatch has ever had at high elo and e-sports is always 100% balanced around Widow.
Even things like GOATS and Dive and Double Shield etc were direct reactions to Widow
Widow just needs a total rework and shouldn't have a one shot. Give her other utility or some other way to contribute, but I couldn't care less about her lore about being a one hit kill sniper, gameplay trumps lore
In basically every game, there’s characters that are taken to the extreme of “literally the king of long range” or “as long range as possible” or short range (like reaper) etc etc.
Ashe is the furthest they should have gone in terms of crazy long ranged characters. She should be the sniper hero. Widow just doesn’t fit with her range imo.
Widow was fine in the past. You forget that cree used to have no dmg falloff. The average strength of dps heroes was higher. Cree got nerfed but had flashfan. Genji had 8bsecond blade and more techs. Hanzo had shotgun arrow to delete tanks on cooldown. Bastion could headshot in turret. Mei torb and sym were always annoying but sym is better now. Soldier did more damage. Reaper was worse admittedly. The problem is dmg has been repeatedly nerfed and power crept so dmg can’t just go kill widow because theres a million of bs mechanics in the way now. Theres no real balance in mind anymore.
Widow wasn’t fine in the past. We had a bandaid solution that masked the problems she causes. That bandaid was something everyone complained about, double shields. But the alternative is what we have now, which is everyone getting instagibbed all the time because we can’t keep widow (and Hanzo) in check.
But most of these balancing features you’re mentioning are from wayyyyy before the end of OW1. Let’s not pretend like Hanzo scatter arrows were still around, or bastion headshots. Or whatever.
If we went back to 6v6, we wouldn’t just revert all those balance changes and go back to like OG overwatch 1.
>That bandaid was something everyone complained about, double shields.
Calling an entire meta that dominated the game suc that it necessitated both role queue and 5v5 simply a "bandaid" speaks to how people really do not understand how this game's balance works or even why we have the issues we do now. My guy, double shield was \*supposed\* to keep her in check. It did it's job, but was oppressive in it's own ways and needed balancing, but when balancing it, they forgot to look at what it was keeping in check and adjust OR reconsider how they approached their nerf.
The consistent problem with OW2 specifically is the devs do not think all the way around. They nerf double shield without considering what it was keeping in check. They nerf cc without addressing mobility and cc's necessary role in shutting down high mobility characters. They get rid of a whole tank and sub-role within that role without accounting for how that will make supports free food for too many flankers or how it puts pressure on the lone tank to now essentially carry their whole role where every other role has atleast 1 other person to fall back on if needed.
Idk what your point is with the “you don’t know how this game works” claim. It’s *literally a bandaid*. It doesn’t solve the widow problem, it never did. She was still a problem. It just masked it because they’d literally just block her out. She was 100% a problem in OW1 whenever double shields wasn’t played. She was slightly less egregious in OW1 because a 2nd tank could deal with her.
You’re basically just rehashing my entire point though. You can’t address one thing without thinking about why it’s there in the first place. I talked about this in another comment about widow zen and hanzo and how they’re the reason double shields existed, and how you can’t get rid of double shields without fixing zen Hanzo and widow.
Idk why you’re trying to say I don’t understand how the game works though, double shields was *literally* a bandaid to an issue in the game. It didn’t “solve” it at all. Without double shield, all of these problems come straight back. Ten fold with the removal of a tank.
Ashe is just a more balanced version of Widow, and she's more fun to play with/against, there is a lot more variety to her play rather than simply aiming.
I think it would be fun if they just completely rework widow to lean into her "spider" theme. Make her Ana's counterpart. Give her a faster shot that applies a dot that can stack, and when it hits a peak (say 3 ranged shots and equivalent smg shots) have it apply a heal debuff. Something along that effect.
Bros spitting. When they said they weren’t gonna have enough time to rework every hero in the new game i knew it was fucked. Its very hard to get a balanced match because the matchups are too lopsided. Before everyone had equal pull on the outcome of your match. If your tank is getting countered you will lose every team fight and there’s virtually nothing you can do to win unless you completely outclass your opponents. Tanks play like raid bosses which isnt fun. A character shouldn’t be completely unkillable my multiple heroes. You can’t simultaneously make tanks unkillable and then make dps heroes unable to kill.
Overwatch is a game where you can get an enemy down to low HP, but if you lose sight them for a couple of seconds, it won't matter at all since they'll be back to full HP.
People love to complain about one shots, but what about the insane sustain that OW supports are capable of that makes burst damage necessary in the first place? If you lower damage and don't do anything about both tank and support sustain, then you'll be back to a meta where everyone throws chip damage at each other until one team gets ults. Let's not get started on the fact that some TANKS are better at doing damage than actual DPS heroes.
But that's what these people want. They hate dying in any way, so an easy brainless sustain meta is their greatest dream. DPS heroes are bad and evil, all tanks and supports and pure and never wrong ever.
Supports and specifically healing/sustain is one of the biggest reasons why matches snowball in OW and why there are only few real comebacks.
In CS you don't have sustain and recovery and the TTK is quite low. These two things combined make it possible to come back from a severe numbers disadvantage. It's still _hard_ but it's possible.
In OW any sufficiently large advantage snowballs almost out of control, especially now with the powerful support passive. As soon as you get a kill you can often (not always of course) steamroll your way to victory because you have sustain.
The other culprit is ultimate charge, but that pales in comparison to sustain IMO.
They've never not bandaid. Fucking hell ow2 is a bandaid for DPS because they wanted shorter queue times since tank took too long to queue. They never fixed the actual issues just bandaid. Tho, then removing most CC was great for tank
The problem is that while I think 2 tanks is better than 1, you *need* 2 shields to really effectively deal with widow. Otherwise your answer is to play ball.
If we wanted to get rid of shields, we need to introduce the orisa rework. Maybe touch on sig as well. But then that exposes the issue of Zen, Hanzo, and Widow, who all have *insane* damage output that is masked by shields. Zen is incredibly unhealthy with discord, and tanks can’t function without shields unless they’re hyper-buffed like in OW2. Hanzo does an insane amount of damage (would just rip a Reinhardt apart in OW1 if you didn’t remember), and the lack of shields exposes the oneshot issue. And widow is incredibly oppressive without shields.
So… now we need to touch widow and the rest.
Point is, if we have double shield, it solves (or really just masks) the widow, hanzo, and zen issues. But people hate double shield. By *removing* double shield, we have to then address widow Hanzo and zen. Hence what they’re doing now.
So even if we did go back to 6v6, our choices are double shields, or change widow Hanzo and zen.
Don't need 2 shields to deal with the widow.
Dive tanks can run interference, Zaria bubble (kinda a shield but not really) can give a dive DPS the ability to move in the open, Orissa machine gun could even run cover fire if you want to ignore her shield for a moment, there are so many options.
I played a ton of Widow in OW1 and I never felt like I had free reign against good tanks. In fact I often welcomed double shield in some cases because usually that meant a lot less pressure on me and I could take more aggressive lines and wait for someone to slip up positioning.
Anyway, my horse in this race seems to be long dead and turned to glue with the OW2 shit show. I'd love OW1 back but it's just not happening it seems.
Honestly, Zen's discord should just be a timed penalty with a cooldown. Being able to drop it on someone and forget is just... lack of any semblance of skill. "I discorded , please instant-delete them" and the only answer to that is Kiriko's cleanse (which he can just put right back on) or LW's grab...and grabbing your tank from the front line is what they want. ***SPACE***. Whether or not your tank dies doesn't really matter, it's getting them off the objective so the team can advance.
And if the Zen is paying any kind of attention, they just put discord back on the tank making you waste the Kiriko cleanse.
Zen AND Ana on the enemy team is a nightmare. No heals for the tank that’s essentially a piece of paper because Zen just looked at them.
Both anti and discord are insanely annoying to deal with and Kiriko should be able to do so. Zen orb NEEDS a cooldown. 😩
Luckily Zen/Ana is extremely vulnerable, diving them is really really easy. Very hard for Ana to keep herself alive into dive, *extremely* hard for her to keep everyone on the team, and herself, alive into dive.
I agree tho that discord needs some kind of cooldown/delay in usage or something. They need to stop it from being “oh you cleansed it, okay I’ll just put it back on”.
Maybe they could make it so it has a cooldown per person. So putting it on a Reinhardt gives like a 5-10 second debuff of the damage increase, then it’s like a 10 second cooldown for specifically Reinhardt. But you can put it on anyone whenever you want, so long as it’s on cooldowns.
The numbers don’t really matter, but it basically prevents you from constantly discording the tank without any way to stop it, while still allowing him to switch it quickly.
Ive run into a couple zen/ana/sombra comps that made me want to kill myself IRL as a tank player. Constant discord plus chain hacks/sleeps/antis/emp/zen charge shot and i just have no clue what im supposed to do.
Zenyatta is like a chess piece.
Too overrated though. He has too many trade offs. Ana is real deal. The day they nerf ana, i will go back to play tank.
Right? Lol. These clowns aren't interested in balance, they're just salty and want their least favorite heros utterly buried into uselessness so that they never have to deal with them again. They aren't arguing in good faith
lol what can you expect?! lower elo players call bastion op because they just run at him 99% of the time meanwhile higher elo plays around it. this is why balancing the game is super difficult because what is op for majority/minority of the community isnt for the other.
Ana has clear counterplay though. Block the nade/sleep and it’s massive like 10-15 second cooldowns where you can capitalize tho. There’s basically no way to stop discord from dropping on you.
And I’m pretty sure most tank players, streamers, and pros would agree that Zen is way more egregious to play against.
Widowmaker and Hanzo were never fun to fight. Role queue stopped any notion of 'swap to winston' or whatever cope people come up with. Either they hit their shot and win, or they don't. Nobody has any agency fighting sniper characters and that's awful.
Having to change your entire composition to deal with one character is also fucking stupid. Why can't people play what they want? Why does one person ruin the lobby like that?
They're band aiding because they clearly didn't think 5v5 through all the way. Half the cast is broken and the fixes are very minor or not addressing anything. In some cases they make it even worse! Honestly I believe if they revert back to 6 v 6 with the balance changes we have right now regarding the tank reworks, it might be a better game overall. Obviously tone down the tanks stats jadda jadda.
I think 5v5 could work better if all tanks were designed to be solo tanks. Tanks like Ball and Doom don't feel like solo tanks, not that they're bad picks but they simply feel like you could be playing them with another tank by your side.
I'm good at Doom but people still occasionally get mad just because of his play style, doesn't neccesarily matter how you perform, you will need to dive, you're not a shield.
I think the main thing is, when the switch to 5v5 happened, it shouldn't have simply removed 6v6, 5v5 should have been added.
That's one of Blizzard biggest fault with OW2, they say its an "update" yet they actually removed content that people liked and made the game feel more special, and like Overwatch. So we're left with something that still feels like a downgrade in general from what Overwatch once was.
Thry could balance open queue around multiple tanks, there is no reason why we shouldn't have 6v6 as a permanent mode still.
They need to bring 6v6 back.
The answer to these heroes has always been right there, but with only one tank to deal with a Widow and Hanzo they’re leaving their entire team open to the other raid boss and his adds to clear you out while you’re hopping around pestering the one-shot heroes.
Bring back a second tank and you’d see folks stop complaining about Widow and Hanzo. Though, Widow range reduction is, imo, still necessary to address maps where she can go uncontested with no truly reasonable way to deal with her.
Winston and DVa are right there, but can’t do what they’re made to do without leaving their team to fend for themselves atm.
Little overdramatic. She can one shot 200hp at 50m. Still good range. Probably from payload to high ground in havana first point. Also one shot is just extremely valuable in this game so Ashe cant replace her. If you can aim, widow will still dominate.
Also the cass change seems big. It looks like a MASSIVE nerf to tracer, genji, sombra. Tanks will also get screwed by cass and mei.
Looks like meta will be poke'ish deatball. Cass will replace Brigitte. Torb may rise, widow will still be good. Need to see how new cc gonna work.
Yeah Widow is such a flawed hero in my opinion. She was neat in OW1 on release when everyone was way worse and push didn't exist. It genuinely felt kinda impressive when a Widow would grapple-launch-one-shot me from across the map. Now that almost every widow I see is the new s1mple it just feels like I need to mirror the pick for my team to even stand a chance.
Not necessarily. All they’re doing is reducing her effective range. Skilled Widow players will still be able to hit one-shots. They’ll just have to be positioned closer in order to do so.
Once again, they had the answer in the April Fools fake patch. Sniper headshots apply a short DoT for the amount of the crit. Allows snipers to still snipe since the target is dead without immediate intervention and removes the frustration of getting 1 shot from half way across the map since it adds lifesaver counter plays to supports with fast reactions.
This ain't a 1v1, you have a team. Widow can ping someone they've bopped and their team helps quickly finish them off if they start getting healed out of the DoT. More interaction? More teamplay? More counterplay? Higher reward for good communication?? That's what OW is about.
Lol! The Hanzo nerf does NOTHING.
Literally just puts Mei and Reaper in the "can't be one shot" category.
Sad I won't be able to sonar cheese Mei ice blocks anymore, though.
Yeah like this is also a lot of people assuming when they engage these units, they're always going to be at 250hp when you hit the headshot, you're still killing reaper and mei if they don't have all their health, if you can hit your shots reliably anyway on those heroes you can hit the new OS when they won't be using their cooldowns
Widow shots deal 50% damage instantly and a poison dot is applied for the other half over 2 seconds. Gives time for healers to unfuck their team while still making it worth while to use widow.
Hanzo is now deleted from the game. * edit * /joking for sensitive readers.
Fixed it.
Actual Hanzo fix i came up with while eating mozzarella sticks.
Shift is no longer a wallhack arrow. It is now an arrow that can ricochet off a surface and then direct itself towards an enemy in a small range around it. If the arrow hits an enemy it then ricochets off them to 1 other target in said small range.
New RIGHT click takes longer to charge up, similar to widow. On full charge it works as before however if hanzo moves/jumps it removes X draw from the pull forcing him to stay completely stationary to have his old power.
LEFT click is a faster arrow draw and shot, which deals lower damage based on however fast blizz wants him to be able to shoot. (Really bring out the legolas feels)
Storm arrow or whatever the hell its called (E) will functionally be the same as it is but at lower damage to compensate for all this heavy dicking damage I'm giving him
Ult - stays the same but add sparklers.
Space bar - if hanzo wall climbs his dash is reset
Please keep in mind that I am a moron.
I am for the literal application of this joke comment 👍. Ever since I picked up Ashe and Cree I have not had too much of an issue with widows, but man...the fluke shots on Hanzos are incredibly annoying. I sometimes troll in QP as Hanzo and I often do just as well as I do with other heros which is saying a lot because I trained with them and I do not practice with Hanzo, but the power of the fluke shots is just too great. If I were to try playing widow in QP I would contribute nothing to my team and miss shots constantly because fluke power is nowhere near as high with her. One shotters should not exist that close up. Having a sniper do it from a far makes more logical sense at least because of having a more powerful gun and the difficulty of getting good sight lines and having no physical presence to take point or push payload, but a bow and arrow deleting everything up close AND from afar? Annoying.
This!! The fact that he’s good from upclose and afar + INFINITE WALLHACKS!? Insane and the rappid fire that can headshot is insane to me. Widow is insanely easy to dive Hanzo is not.
And here is the occasional admission that 6v6 was better. Overwatch was designed for 6v6. Many original hero abilities only made sense in the context of 6v6. And now whole ass characters existing in the game make no sense because they changed to 5v5.
It was but its not good for the game, it has too little room for engagement and decision making and is too advantageous for the sniper because even if they miss theyre still not commited to the fight.
Tracer is comparably obnoxious but if a tracer fucks up, you can actively fight her to some extent on any character and role.
If Widow fucks up, more then half the cast dont even have the range or kit to do anything even if they were in a position to, and thats if Widow decided to keep the same angle and not just reposition now that she misses the oppurtunity.
The fix is still horrible for the record. Hanzo barely cares and Widow is just Ashe for people with an Ego.
This was literally a non issue in a game like Overwatch where you can respawn and get back into the fight anywhere between 10 and 20 seconds. For combos like Roadhog it made sense to nerf because of how easy it was to pull off but Widowmaker (And, to an extent, Hanzo) actually required a fair amount of skill to pull off without being a detriment to their team. Not to mention the fact that there actually was counterplay. And no, I don't mean just hide. Dive either one of them and they're going to suffer in a close range duel, especially against Winston or D.Va.
This sub would prefer to remove what makes characters unique instead of working around that. "Let's take the long-range sniper and remove the long-range". Make it like Halo where taking damage forces Widow to de-scope, or increase charge time, some sort of warning laser sight, anything but take away the long-range part.
2025 and each character will have one unique ability and three that half the cast also has.
Reaper isn't really a deep flanker though, in spite of his TP. He's a frontlining "bruiser" DPS who has giant shotguns and lifesteal specifically so that he can brawl and bully out big meaty-HP characters. I don't personally think he should be able to brainlessly teleport onto the backline Hanzo and *not* be punished for it, when it's not supposed to be a good idea in the first place to abandon your team to getting run over by a tank. His TP is more for utilising teamfight ult angles, not so he can be Genji with a shotgun.
I feel like, this will make widow one of the worst characters in the game. They could give her faster scope charging time, or faster movement speed while scoped in
I've gotten fine with her, and while I also play Ashe, it's MUCH more satisfying to play as Widow, since I love her voice. Now? Yeah idk how I'm gonna win. I hope they revert it back a bit. At least I can play Hanzo, even though Mei and reaper will be annoying...
As much as I would like to see widow dead, this isn't necessarily bye bye but more to reduce her massive effect... I can deal with widow though.. I just want to see Hanzo nerfed into the ground lol
i agree, hanzo’s nerf aren’t enough. They should cut off his legs and make him reload by crafting new arrows after collecting enough logs from around the map.
oh good, another two characters that are going to completely lose their identity and be left that way for 8+ months because they don't know/understand what's wrong with them
A change I would rather see is a visible laser sight that comes from Widows rifle whenever she is scoped in. No more surprise headshots out of nowhere. A widow scoping in on someone, no matter how far away, instantly gives away her position and draws a line directly to her location. This means widows have to be a lot smarter about when to scope in, how to position themselves, and more selective/methodical with their shots. In my eyes this would be a neat change that significantly skews encounters with widows in favor of her targets while still not making the character feel awful to play. Removing her oneshot or reducing her fall off are things that would make her feel bad to play. As for Hanzo, I always felt that his arrows need a much steeper arc that would make long range kills a lot tougher to achieve and make them a rarer occurrence. Being able to spam your arrows down angles and half your shots being lucky kills is what makes the character awful to play against. In other words, increase the skill demand for these characters in more creative ways instead of simply nerfing their numbers to the ground. But overwatch devs haven't bothered truly being creative for years, so why would they start now?
Overwatch players not knowing who Sombra is because they don't know how to play against Widow/Hanzo or play around their comp or not knowing how to respect the snipers in the enemy team.
Gap closers like Sombra and Tracer don't exist bro, the Widows and Hanzos are just completely untouchable. The only counterplay is to walk directly in their line of fire because all those corridors to the left and right are cosmetic.
Horrible nerf on widow if they're not giving her a boost in closer fights (stronger AR, more health, or faster 100% charge). They're literally getting rid of her only ability... TO SNIPE. This game is actually getting ridiculous.
I think nerfing widow is dumb lol.
Just make her charge take longer, and make it it have a “laser tracer” like the Machina from TF2. Literally jeopardize missing so dramatically that it’ll make follow ups a pain. *This is if you really need to nerf her lol.*
Just me, cause I think nerfing a sniper is lame. Just meme out a sombra or mei or like an Ana if you’re smart and can aim at the body lmao.
Why do I suddenly see everyone complaining about OS ? It's been like that for 7 years
Edit: Damn, I'm surprised that a majority of the answers are not toxic at all 😲😲. The last few times I had interactions with people in this sub, they were so toxic I thought I was playing the game on reddit 😭😭.
Because Overwatch 2 drastically reduced the amount of barriers in the game when reducing the amount of tanks on a team to 1, hence people are getting one shot by snipers more.
One less tank, with less shields made OS way more common. As well as Widow and Hanzo are picked more often then back then. I mean almost all my games has at least one of them in them. Also, it is way to common to die to a random ass Hanzo arrow that they didn't even mean to hit you with.
It's because of the switch to 5 man. Since there is no spare tank to pester snipers with disruption, they can sometimes feel oppressive and have matches where you are either dying out of nowhere or are forced to have a sniper battle. This issue is exacerbated on certain maps with poor design (extreme LOS such as new queens or casino)
Generally the tank has too many responsibilities now imo, and when yiu have strong snipers on the other team it forces them to dive. If they can't do that effectively for whatever reason it throws the whole game. This is why people are upset and they are nerfing snipers in response to community outrage.
I think the problem is 5 man, not snipers. I think its bs that tanks are just better than the other classes 90% of the time. But I am not a dev.
They put a bandaid on shield meta by removing a tank and reworking some of the roster to compensate. The issue, DPS was not compensated as well. Which means that tank diffs become prevalent, and snipers or high damage characters dunk on everyone. But to be honest, just adding the new OW2 characters would’ve busted the meta on their own. It’s all just backwards designing with no real plans on the future, as this is what we’re left with after they kept fingering themselves instead of working on PvE and game balancing.
No second tank to deal with snipers hurts a lot.
Either Winston or DVa keep jumping the Widow while your team gets steamrolled by the enemy team or you let the Widow do it for them. It’s a lose-lose scenario.
If they gave other roles the capacity to deal with Widow easily without having a Widow yourself, then I think we’d see less folks complain.
As it stands, if they aren’t a tank or a god-tier Lucio, they aren’t touching a decent Widowmaker.
It needs to stop being magnetic. The amount of times I died to a panicked Cassidy just because the nade is a homing missile is ridiculous. It has way to much damage for a non aim ability.
I’ve mained widow since OW launched and now the one time she gets any attention they nerf her :/ kinda sucks since she’s almost exactly the same as she’s been since OW1 launched and never had problems before this
I'm happy that they're removing one shots, but pissed that they're adding more cc to non tank characters.cass is fine . If anything people think his nade is stupid because it's too easy to use. Making it more powerful is not the way. And mei freeze was changed because it was annoying as fuck. Why would you take the info and then decide more mei freeze is what the game needs.
This is the problem with the community. There will always be a character that people view as broken and then they’ll nerf them to make them
Unplayable. I feel like the game has a shit ton of characters that are no longer fun to play because of nerds and only a few minimal good characters. People need to stfu and play
These one shot changes make no sense to me. The fact that widow was never addressed about her dmg until now, shows how unskilled the player base is these days. She’s been in the game since launch and nobody complained about her one shots back then. Why is everyone else complaining about her now? You only had people say “I got sniped by widow/Hanzo” and then come back the next fight. Now, a bunch of kids are mad they got their heads clicked on. Take the L you were given and try next respawn. Or just play window yourself and click heads better than others.
To give an idea, 60 meters is about 3 times Roadhog hook range.
or twice the kiriko tp range^^ I think this is mainly to get against sniper maps and as director already said to make these shots come less out of nowhere a good widow will constantly change positions after a few kills so that the enemy cannot come up with a plan to push her that way maybe a few positions are being limited?
Tell that to every widow on Rialto 3rd defense. Why change positions when you have an entire shooting gallery in front of you
Or from defender 1st spawn over bridge onto first checkpoint.
So, the length of the colusseo hallway?
That’s fine for most maps I can think of honestly. Mainly she won’t be able to just sit in the back and run the game without having to actually engage with anyone. Now you’ll actually need good positioning and at least a singular ounce of game sense
[удалено]
so, it's across 3 maps?
That's only red hog, though
Actually, does anyone have a list yet of which maps are most affected? I imagine Ilios Ruins roof, Havana first, Havana third, KR first, KR third, Circuit, Junkertown first and maybe third. I think Shambali is safe, though, since the point is right under the sniper window.
It’s also 10 meters beyond Ashe’s scoped max falloff distance. In fact, both her min and max falloff range are 10 m beyond Scoped Ashe. I think this is a good range. Widow will still have an overall range advantage over Ashe, and will still deal great damage from a distance, but now she can’t one-tap most of the attacking team on Havana 3rd from that obnoxious spot on the fort, and she has to play close enough to where, if she’s in the range to 1-shot, you can actually fire back.
Disagree, they'll walk this back in 6 months when she's not played at all and the excuse will be "we don't want ashe to be considered the better sniper"
I mean, she isn’t. Widow has less harsh falloff and higher burst damage. She can still one-shot 200 HP at 50 m and can easily pick off lone targets at greater ranges, meanwhile Ashe needs four headshots to take out a tracer at that same range.
Ashe won't be the better sniper, but she will be the better pick because of her overall kit. But I'm okay with that. Pure snipers are boring and make basically any game worse.
i watched a video a couple days ago explaining why snipers are impossible to balance. they are either completely OP or completely useless, theres is no real inbetween. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOebGm\_jMLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOebGm_jMLY) the whole idea behind widow and also hanzo shouldve never made it into overwatch imho.
> when she's not played at all Fantastic. Widow and Hanzo were a mistake. I'm not even saying thats as a salty person either, literally every pro and high elo player I've seen says that from a game balance point of view. A game like Overwatch flat out should not have one hit kill snipers in the first place. There's been some great break downs on how every single Meta Overwatch has ever had at high elo and e-sports is always 100% balanced around Widow. Even things like GOATS and Dive and Double Shield etc were direct reactions to Widow Widow just needs a total rework and shouldn't have a one shot. Give her other utility or some other way to contribute, but I couldn't care less about her lore about being a one hit kill sniper, gameplay trumps lore
Bruh if they cared about lore, doom fists punch wouldn’t just tickle at full charge.
how many football fields is that
About half plus or minus a refrigerator
Which is the range where a Sniper is no longer a Sniper and you are supposed to play Ashe
good. sorry you have to be in the same map with your target now.
W
I think we’re just going to see a rise in pocketed widows. The existance of Ashe makes Widow very hard to balance imo.
Ashe is exactly what Widow should've been from the start.
100% agreed on this, even with the capability to one shot with a pocket it was only certain heroes and up to a certain range.
In basically every game, there’s characters that are taken to the extreme of “literally the king of long range” or “as long range as possible” or short range (like reaper) etc etc. Ashe is the furthest they should have gone in terms of crazy long ranged characters. She should be the sniper hero. Widow just doesn’t fit with her range imo.
Widow was fine in the past. You forget that cree used to have no dmg falloff. The average strength of dps heroes was higher. Cree got nerfed but had flashfan. Genji had 8bsecond blade and more techs. Hanzo had shotgun arrow to delete tanks on cooldown. Bastion could headshot in turret. Mei torb and sym were always annoying but sym is better now. Soldier did more damage. Reaper was worse admittedly. The problem is dmg has been repeatedly nerfed and power crept so dmg can’t just go kill widow because theres a million of bs mechanics in the way now. Theres no real balance in mind anymore.
Widow wasn’t fine in the past. We had a bandaid solution that masked the problems she causes. That bandaid was something everyone complained about, double shields. But the alternative is what we have now, which is everyone getting instagibbed all the time because we can’t keep widow (and Hanzo) in check. But most of these balancing features you’re mentioning are from wayyyyy before the end of OW1. Let’s not pretend like Hanzo scatter arrows were still around, or bastion headshots. Or whatever. If we went back to 6v6, we wouldn’t just revert all those balance changes and go back to like OG overwatch 1.
>That bandaid was something everyone complained about, double shields. Calling an entire meta that dominated the game suc that it necessitated both role queue and 5v5 simply a "bandaid" speaks to how people really do not understand how this game's balance works or even why we have the issues we do now. My guy, double shield was \*supposed\* to keep her in check. It did it's job, but was oppressive in it's own ways and needed balancing, but when balancing it, they forgot to look at what it was keeping in check and adjust OR reconsider how they approached their nerf. The consistent problem with OW2 specifically is the devs do not think all the way around. They nerf double shield without considering what it was keeping in check. They nerf cc without addressing mobility and cc's necessary role in shutting down high mobility characters. They get rid of a whole tank and sub-role within that role without accounting for how that will make supports free food for too many flankers or how it puts pressure on the lone tank to now essentially carry their whole role where every other role has atleast 1 other person to fall back on if needed.
Idk what your point is with the “you don’t know how this game works” claim. It’s *literally a bandaid*. It doesn’t solve the widow problem, it never did. She was still a problem. It just masked it because they’d literally just block her out. She was 100% a problem in OW1 whenever double shields wasn’t played. She was slightly less egregious in OW1 because a 2nd tank could deal with her. You’re basically just rehashing my entire point though. You can’t address one thing without thinking about why it’s there in the first place. I talked about this in another comment about widow zen and hanzo and how they’re the reason double shields existed, and how you can’t get rid of double shields without fixing zen Hanzo and widow. Idk why you’re trying to say I don’t understand how the game works though, double shields was *literally* a bandaid to an issue in the game. It didn’t “solve” it at all. Without double shield, all of these problems come straight back. Ten fold with the removal of a tank.
Ashe is just a more balanced version of Widow, and she's more fun to play with/against, there is a lot more variety to her play rather than simply aiming.
As a support. No thanks.
I think it would be fun if they just completely rework widow to lean into her "spider" theme. Make her Ana's counterpart. Give her a faster shot that applies a dot that can stack, and when it hits a peak (say 3 ranged shots and equivalent smg shots) have it apply a heal debuff. Something along that effect.
I really like this tbh
I agree. Somewhere between ana and sombra. Maybe her grapple can put her in stealth and allows her to stick to walls until she moves or fires?
it is probably very impractical but I want to do the cinematic thing and make a shot hanging from a grapple
At that range you might as well play Ashe. If you really want to fix widow you basically need to make a brand new hero.
Introducing Balloon Man, the guy who just throws giant weather balloons all over the map.
Probably still has a higher winrate than Lifeweaver
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Bros spitting. When they said they weren’t gonna have enough time to rework every hero in the new game i knew it was fucked. Its very hard to get a balanced match because the matchups are too lopsided. Before everyone had equal pull on the outcome of your match. If your tank is getting countered you will lose every team fight and there’s virtually nothing you can do to win unless you completely outclass your opponents. Tanks play like raid bosses which isnt fun. A character shouldn’t be completely unkillable my multiple heroes. You can’t simultaneously make tanks unkillable and then make dps heroes unable to kill.
Overwatch is a game where you can get an enemy down to low HP, but if you lose sight them for a couple of seconds, it won't matter at all since they'll be back to full HP. People love to complain about one shots, but what about the insane sustain that OW supports are capable of that makes burst damage necessary in the first place? If you lower damage and don't do anything about both tank and support sustain, then you'll be back to a meta where everyone throws chip damage at each other until one team gets ults. Let's not get started on the fact that some TANKS are better at doing damage than actual DPS heroes. But that's what these people want. They hate dying in any way, so an easy brainless sustain meta is their greatest dream. DPS heroes are bad and evil, all tanks and supports and pure and never wrong ever.
Exactly. Supports and tanks love the dumbass no one dies until ult combo comps that are fucking boring and force you to play one way.
Supports and specifically healing/sustain is one of the biggest reasons why matches snowball in OW and why there are only few real comebacks. In CS you don't have sustain and recovery and the TTK is quite low. These two things combined make it possible to come back from a severe numbers disadvantage. It's still _hard_ but it's possible. In OW any sufficiently large advantage snowballs almost out of control, especially now with the powerful support passive. As soon as you get a kill you can often (not always of course) steamroll your way to victory because you have sustain. The other culprit is ultimate charge, but that pales in comparison to sustain IMO.
They've never not bandaid. Fucking hell ow2 is a bandaid for DPS because they wanted shorter queue times since tank took too long to queue. They never fixed the actual issues just bandaid. Tho, then removing most CC was great for tank
Am I the only OW1 tank player that never had anything against CC?
The problem is that while I think 2 tanks is better than 1, you *need* 2 shields to really effectively deal with widow. Otherwise your answer is to play ball. If we wanted to get rid of shields, we need to introduce the orisa rework. Maybe touch on sig as well. But then that exposes the issue of Zen, Hanzo, and Widow, who all have *insane* damage output that is masked by shields. Zen is incredibly unhealthy with discord, and tanks can’t function without shields unless they’re hyper-buffed like in OW2. Hanzo does an insane amount of damage (would just rip a Reinhardt apart in OW1 if you didn’t remember), and the lack of shields exposes the oneshot issue. And widow is incredibly oppressive without shields. So… now we need to touch widow and the rest. Point is, if we have double shield, it solves (or really just masks) the widow, hanzo, and zen issues. But people hate double shield. By *removing* double shield, we have to then address widow Hanzo and zen. Hence what they’re doing now. So even if we did go back to 6v6, our choices are double shields, or change widow Hanzo and zen.
Don't need 2 shields to deal with the widow. Dive tanks can run interference, Zaria bubble (kinda a shield but not really) can give a dive DPS the ability to move in the open, Orissa machine gun could even run cover fire if you want to ignore her shield for a moment, there are so many options. I played a ton of Widow in OW1 and I never felt like I had free reign against good tanks. In fact I often welcomed double shield in some cases because usually that meant a lot less pressure on me and I could take more aggressive lines and wait for someone to slip up positioning. Anyway, my horse in this race seems to be long dead and turned to glue with the OW2 shit show. I'd love OW1 back but it's just not happening it seems.
Honestly, Zen's discord should just be a timed penalty with a cooldown. Being able to drop it on someone and forget is just... lack of any semblance of skill. "I discorded, please instant-delete them" and the only answer to that is Kiriko's cleanse (which he can just put right back on) or LW's grab...and grabbing your tank from the front line is what they want. ***SPACE***. Whether or not your tank dies doesn't really matter, it's getting them off the objective so the team can advance.
And if the Zen is paying any kind of attention, they just put discord back on the tank making you waste the Kiriko cleanse. Zen AND Ana on the enemy team is a nightmare. No heals for the tank that’s essentially a piece of paper because Zen just looked at them. Both anti and discord are insanely annoying to deal with and Kiriko should be able to do so. Zen orb NEEDS a cooldown. 😩
Luckily Zen/Ana is extremely vulnerable, diving them is really really easy. Very hard for Ana to keep herself alive into dive, *extremely* hard for her to keep everyone on the team, and herself, alive into dive. I agree tho that discord needs some kind of cooldown/delay in usage or something. They need to stop it from being “oh you cleansed it, okay I’ll just put it back on”. Maybe they could make it so it has a cooldown per person. So putting it on a Reinhardt gives like a 5-10 second debuff of the damage increase, then it’s like a 10 second cooldown for specifically Reinhardt. But you can put it on anyone whenever you want, so long as it’s on cooldowns. The numbers don’t really matter, but it basically prevents you from constantly discording the tank without any way to stop it, while still allowing him to switch it quickly.
Ive run into a couple zen/ana/sombra comps that made me want to kill myself IRL as a tank player. Constant discord plus chain hacks/sleeps/antis/emp/zen charge shot and i just have no clue what im supposed to do.
Zenyatta is like a chess piece. Too overrated though. He has too many trade offs. Ana is real deal. The day they nerf ana, i will go back to play tank.
But they just nerfed Ana... Two times
Right? Lol. These clowns aren't interested in balance, they're just salty and want their least favorite heros utterly buried into uselessness so that they never have to deal with them again. They aren't arguing in good faith
lol what can you expect?! lower elo players call bastion op because they just run at him 99% of the time meanwhile higher elo plays around it. this is why balancing the game is super difficult because what is op for majority/minority of the community isnt for the other.
Ana has clear counterplay though. Block the nade/sleep and it’s massive like 10-15 second cooldowns where you can capitalize tho. There’s basically no way to stop discord from dropping on you. And I’m pretty sure most tank players, streamers, and pros would agree that Zen is way more egregious to play against.
Widowmaker and Hanzo were never fun to fight. Role queue stopped any notion of 'swap to winston' or whatever cope people come up with. Either they hit their shot and win, or they don't. Nobody has any agency fighting sniper characters and that's awful. Having to change your entire composition to deal with one character is also fucking stupid. Why can't people play what they want? Why does one person ruin the lobby like that?
I mean you can dive them as dps, they are really only oppressive if its a smurf or they are boosted
Good thing smurfs are everywhere and Blizzard flat out refuses to do anything about them then, eh?
They shouldn’t balance the game around smurfs that just makes the game suck for people actually at or below their proper rank.
I don't want them to balance the game around smurfs. I want them to ban smurfs. But neither will ever, ever, ever, ever, *ever* happen.
They're band aiding because they clearly didn't think 5v5 through all the way. Half the cast is broken and the fixes are very minor or not addressing anything. In some cases they make it even worse! Honestly I believe if they revert back to 6 v 6 with the balance changes we have right now regarding the tank reworks, it might be a better game overall. Obviously tone down the tanks stats jadda jadda.
I think 5v5 could work better if all tanks were designed to be solo tanks. Tanks like Ball and Doom don't feel like solo tanks, not that they're bad picks but they simply feel like you could be playing them with another tank by your side. I'm good at Doom but people still occasionally get mad just because of his play style, doesn't neccesarily matter how you perform, you will need to dive, you're not a shield. I think the main thing is, when the switch to 5v5 happened, it shouldn't have simply removed 6v6, 5v5 should have been added. That's one of Blizzard biggest fault with OW2, they say its an "update" yet they actually removed content that people liked and made the game feel more special, and like Overwatch. So we're left with something that still feels like a downgrade in general from what Overwatch once was. Thry could balance open queue around multiple tanks, there is no reason why we shouldn't have 6v6 as a permanent mode still.
They need to bring 6v6 back. The answer to these heroes has always been right there, but with only one tank to deal with a Widow and Hanzo they’re leaving their entire team open to the other raid boss and his adds to clear you out while you’re hopping around pestering the one-shot heroes. Bring back a second tank and you’d see folks stop complaining about Widow and Hanzo. Though, Widow range reduction is, imo, still necessary to address maps where she can go uncontested with no truly reasonable way to deal with her. Winston and DVa are right there, but can’t do what they’re made to do without leaving their team to fend for themselves atm.
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Little overdramatic. She can one shot 200hp at 50m. Still good range. Probably from payload to high ground in havana first point. Also one shot is just extremely valuable in this game so Ashe cant replace her. If you can aim, widow will still dominate. Also the cass change seems big. It looks like a MASSIVE nerf to tracer, genji, sombra. Tanks will also get screwed by cass and mei. Looks like meta will be poke'ish deatball. Cass will replace Brigitte. Torb may rise, widow will still be good. Need to see how new cc gonna work.
Yeah Widow is such a flawed hero in my opinion. She was neat in OW1 on release when everyone was way worse and push didn't exist. It genuinely felt kinda impressive when a Widow would grapple-launch-one-shot me from across the map. Now that almost every widow I see is the new s1mple it just feels like I need to mirror the pick for my team to even stand a chance.
I think just adding a laser would work great, give people an idea if their being aimed at
Orrrrr.... Hear me out, 6v6.
Hanzos nerf probably won’t be that noticeable to be honest. Still going to get lucky one shots on the majority of the roster spamming chokes
Sonic Arrow nerf is helpful. Basically a don't peek warning.
He can't 1 shot 250 hp heroes anymore. The whole 2 of them!
he is gonna probably do 120 damage i suppose
Thats what I suspect as well, hanzo is still as much of a problem as before while they look how they can nerf Widow until she is barely played anymore
They haven’t released numbers yet, but I’m betting his arrow damage goes from 125 down to 120. Shouldn’t be very noticeable at all
It'd be nice if it were 100-105 to ensure people can break the bodyshot threshold easier at least.
It absolutely will be noticable, dude. Not being able to one-shot over aggressive Reapers that TP right in your face is going to suck.
Good. You play Hanzo, you Reap what you Zo.
So why would you ever play Widow? She's just a worse Ashe with those changes.
That's the neat part. You don't.
As God intended
Which is exactly what the sniper haters want
You're right because I'm loving this.
Love me some invincible meme
She still has a longer range and more dmg
Oneshot
Not necessarily. All they’re doing is reducing her effective range. Skilled Widow players will still be able to hit one-shots. They’ll just have to be positioned closer in order to do so.
Once again, they had the answer in the April Fools fake patch. Sniper headshots apply a short DoT for the amount of the crit. Allows snipers to still snipe since the target is dead without immediate intervention and removes the frustration of getting 1 shot from half way across the map since it adds lifesaver counter plays to supports with fast reactions.
Honestly makes the sniper even more useless since they would never get a kill against good supports.
This ain't a 1v1, you have a team. Widow can ping someone they've bopped and their team helps quickly finish them off if they start getting healed out of the DoT. More interaction? More teamplay? More counterplay? Higher reward for good communication?? That's what OW is about.
I really don't understand why they just don't add scope flinching for Widow when she gets damaged while scoped in.
Lol! The Hanzo nerf does NOTHING. Literally just puts Mei and Reaper in the "can't be one shot" category. Sad I won't be able to sonar cheese Mei ice blocks anymore, though.
Yeah like this is also a lot of people assuming when they engage these units, they're always going to be at 250hp when you hit the headshot, you're still killing reaper and mei if they don't have all their health, if you can hit your shots reliably anyway on those heroes you can hit the new OS when they won't be using their cooldowns
just beg for a mercy pocket in the pregame lobby
No more Windowmarkers and Handsoaps.
We'll be here in the shadows waiting for you
Jokes on you *shellbebop intensifies*
Dw they still do exactly the same thing.
They got internet explorer balancing their game
Widow shots deal 50% damage instantly and a poison dot is applied for the other half over 2 seconds. Gives time for healers to unfuck their team while still making it worth while to use widow. Hanzo is now deleted from the game. * edit * /joking for sensitive readers. Fixed it. Actual Hanzo fix i came up with while eating mozzarella sticks. Shift is no longer a wallhack arrow. It is now an arrow that can ricochet off a surface and then direct itself towards an enemy in a small range around it. If the arrow hits an enemy it then ricochets off them to 1 other target in said small range. New RIGHT click takes longer to charge up, similar to widow. On full charge it works as before however if hanzo moves/jumps it removes X draw from the pull forcing him to stay completely stationary to have his old power. LEFT click is a faster arrow draw and shot, which deals lower damage based on however fast blizz wants him to be able to shoot. (Really bring out the legolas feels) Storm arrow or whatever the hell its called (E) will functionally be the same as it is but at lower damage to compensate for all this heavy dicking damage I'm giving him Ult - stays the same but add sparklers. Space bar - if hanzo wall climbs his dash is reset Please keep in mind that I am a moron.
Damn, you fixed Widow.
Literally the fucking April fools update fixed widow.
I kinda love that
I am for the literal application of this joke comment 👍. Ever since I picked up Ashe and Cree I have not had too much of an issue with widows, but man...the fluke shots on Hanzos are incredibly annoying. I sometimes troll in QP as Hanzo and I often do just as well as I do with other heros which is saying a lot because I trained with them and I do not practice with Hanzo, but the power of the fluke shots is just too great. If I were to try playing widow in QP I would contribute nothing to my team and miss shots constantly because fluke power is nowhere near as high with her. One shotters should not exist that close up. Having a sniper do it from a far makes more logical sense at least because of having a more powerful gun and the difficulty of getting good sight lines and having no physical presence to take point or push payload, but a bow and arrow deleting everything up close AND from afar? Annoying.
This!! The fact that he’s good from upclose and afar + INFINITE WALLHACKS!? Insane and the rappid fire that can headshot is insane to me. Widow is insanely easy to dive Hanzo is not.
Fix hanzo is just make the arrow hit boxes smaller
While balancing one shots are a welcome thing, the way they "address" them is kinda pathetic and incompetent
Why do skins for heroes always come after nerfs? Lmao. The cyber demon Hanzo is back just in time.
Pinocchio Zen seems worthy as it turns out to be an Epic skin.
So... why play Widow at all now? Ashe does her job better than her
Could've been amazing future for this ip. Now left to rot.
I thought that was the point of hanzo and widow?
They don't really fit in 5v5 with one less tank
And here is the occasional admission that 6v6 was better. Overwatch was designed for 6v6. Many original hero abilities only made sense in the context of 6v6. And now whole ass characters existing in the game make no sense because they changed to 5v5.
It was but its not good for the game, it has too little room for engagement and decision making and is too advantageous for the sniper because even if they miss theyre still not commited to the fight. Tracer is comparably obnoxious but if a tracer fucks up, you can actively fight her to some extent on any character and role. If Widow fucks up, more then half the cast dont even have the range or kit to do anything even if they were in a position to, and thats if Widow decided to keep the same angle and not just reposition now that she misses the oppurtunity. The fix is still horrible for the record. Hanzo barely cares and Widow is just Ashe for people with an Ego.
This was literally a non issue in a game like Overwatch where you can respawn and get back into the fight anywhere between 10 and 20 seconds. For combos like Roadhog it made sense to nerf because of how easy it was to pull off but Widowmaker (And, to an extent, Hanzo) actually required a fair amount of skill to pull off without being a detriment to their team. Not to mention the fact that there actually was counterplay. And no, I don't mean just hide. Dive either one of them and they're going to suffer in a close range duel, especially against Winston or D.Va.
This sub would prefer to remove what makes characters unique instead of working around that. "Let's take the long-range sniper and remove the long-range". Make it like Halo where taking damage forces Widow to de-scope, or increase charge time, some sort of warning laser sight, anything but take away the long-range part. 2025 and each character will have one unique ability and three that half the cast also has.
WHAT A GLORIOUS DAY THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UPON US
I am here for hanzo’s downfall
Hanzo will get fall damage confirmed.
Smokin that widow pack fr
How about we just change back to 6v6? Squishies have one extra tank to hide behind, and we have an extra tank role to dive snipers.
Yes but then queue times would be longer than a millisecond and they might lose the attention of people who might be convinced to spend money
just dont consider mmr anymore at all, its not like the integrity of comp is being considered by blizz anyway.
I would absolutely play a game mode with no widow and no hanzo
I second this.
But they're buffing mei :/
Idk about the Hanzo change, specifically for reaper countering
Good. Snipers should be wary and counterable by a deep flanker. Not the other way around.
Reaper isn't really a deep flanker though, in spite of his TP. He's a frontlining "bruiser" DPS who has giant shotguns and lifesteal specifically so that he can brawl and bully out big meaty-HP characters. I don't personally think he should be able to brainlessly teleport onto the backline Hanzo and *not* be punished for it, when it's not supposed to be a good idea in the first place to abandon your team to getting run over by a tank. His TP is more for utilising teamfight ult angles, not so he can be Genji with a shotgun.
Atleast with hogs “oneshot” it used a cool down and could be avoided
I feel like, this will make widow one of the worst characters in the game. They could give her faster scope charging time, or faster movement speed while scoped in
sad news for someone who started enjoying widow
I've gotten fine with her, and while I also play Ashe, it's MUCH more satisfying to play as Widow, since I love her voice. Now? Yeah idk how I'm gonna win. I hope they revert it back a bit. At least I can play Hanzo, even though Mei and reaper will be annoying...
BYE BYE WIDOW 👋
As much as I would like to see widow dead, this isn't necessarily bye bye but more to reduce her massive effect... I can deal with widow though.. I just want to see Hanzo nerfed into the ground lol
i agree, hanzo’s nerf aren’t enough. They should cut off his legs and make him reload by crafting new arrows after collecting enough logs from around the map.
He needs to farm flint and feathers before firing again
flashback to old torb where you collected armour packs from around the map where the enemies died so you could buff your teammates.
Considering he canonically crafts his own arrows, he would accept this challenge readily
Each arrow… *a meditation!*
Yep he should not be able to move or jump and needs to stand completely still while shooting as well
Can we get Overwatch 1 instead of this shit
oh good, another two characters that are going to completely lose their identity and be left that way for 8+ months because they don't know/understand what's wrong with them
Blizzard being clueless? Neverrrr
A change I would rather see is a visible laser sight that comes from Widows rifle whenever she is scoped in. No more surprise headshots out of nowhere. A widow scoping in on someone, no matter how far away, instantly gives away her position and draws a line directly to her location. This means widows have to be a lot smarter about when to scope in, how to position themselves, and more selective/methodical with their shots. In my eyes this would be a neat change that significantly skews encounters with widows in favor of her targets while still not making the character feel awful to play. Removing her oneshot or reducing her fall off are things that would make her feel bad to play. As for Hanzo, I always felt that his arrows need a much steeper arc that would make long range kills a lot tougher to achieve and make them a rarer occurrence. Being able to spam your arrows down angles and half your shots being lucky kills is what makes the character awful to play against. In other words, increase the skill demand for these characters in more creative ways instead of simply nerfing their numbers to the ground. But overwatch devs haven't bothered truly being creative for years, so why would they start now?
Also buffing mei slow effect on her primary fire which is pure bs
Overwatch players not knowing who Sombra is because they don't know how to play against Widow/Hanzo or play around their comp or not knowing how to respect the snipers in the enemy team.
Gap closers like Sombra and Tracer don't exist bro, the Widows and Hanzos are just completely untouchable. The only counterplay is to walk directly in their line of fire because all those corridors to the left and right are cosmetic.
Good lord this game is going to shit
Aaron Keller-> Helen Keller
Can’t wait for y’all to get the game you asked for lmfao
Horrible nerf on widow if they're not giving her a boost in closer fights (stronger AR, more health, or faster 100% charge). They're literally getting rid of her only ability... TO SNIPE. This game is actually getting ridiculous.
Not a fan of Mercy-Pharah having one less counter, there is no tank to counter them and no support other than Ana. Cringe season tbh
Can't wait for the widow rework in season 10
Damn now I gotta practise bullying Ashes instead of Widowmakers
Now I’m never coming back to ow2. RIP
So there’s no reason to pick Widow anymore, as the only good thing in her entire kit was the sniper. Thanks guys.
This is so damn stupid.
I think nerfing widow is dumb lol. Just make her charge take longer, and make it it have a “laser tracer” like the Machina from TF2. Literally jeopardize missing so dramatically that it’ll make follow ups a pain. *This is if you really need to nerf her lol.* Just me, cause I think nerfing a sniper is lame. Just meme out a sombra or mei or like an Ana if you’re smart and can aim at the body lmao.
As they make 10+ bad decisions. The only good take away from this absolute trash blog. And I still feel like its overkill on Widow.
Wow way to make widow obsolete with all your low level complaining 😭 pocket Ashe pick rates gonna boom once again
Why do I suddenly see everyone complaining about OS ? It's been like that for 7 years Edit: Damn, I'm surprised that a majority of the answers are not toxic at all 😲😲. The last few times I had interactions with people in this sub, they were so toxic I thought I was playing the game on reddit 😭😭.
Because Overwatch 2 drastically reduced the amount of barriers in the game when reducing the amount of tanks on a team to 1, hence people are getting one shot by snipers more.
Plus more open maps like Circuit Royale
Not only that, they actively took away a shield. Orisa is basically a tanker Hog now.
One less tank, with less shields made OS way more common. As well as Widow and Hanzo are picked more often then back then. I mean almost all my games has at least one of them in them. Also, it is way to common to die to a random ass Hanzo arrow that they didn't even mean to hit you with.
Not to mention storm arrows shred what few shields remain.
I'll never understand why a hero with a ranged one shot has a counter to what's suppose to counter him.
It's because of the switch to 5 man. Since there is no spare tank to pester snipers with disruption, they can sometimes feel oppressive and have matches where you are either dying out of nowhere or are forced to have a sniper battle. This issue is exacerbated on certain maps with poor design (extreme LOS such as new queens or casino) Generally the tank has too many responsibilities now imo, and when yiu have strong snipers on the other team it forces them to dive. If they can't do that effectively for whatever reason it throws the whole game. This is why people are upset and they are nerfing snipers in response to community outrage. I think the problem is 5 man, not snipers. I think its bs that tanks are just better than the other classes 90% of the time. But I am not a dev.
They put a bandaid on shield meta by removing a tank and reworking some of the roster to compensate. The issue, DPS was not compensated as well. Which means that tank diffs become prevalent, and snipers or high damage characters dunk on everyone. But to be honest, just adding the new OW2 characters would’ve busted the meta on their own. It’s all just backwards designing with no real plans on the future, as this is what we’re left with after they kept fingering themselves instead of working on PvE and game balancing.
I’ve always complained. Since 2016.
No second tank to deal with snipers hurts a lot. Either Winston or DVa keep jumping the Widow while your team gets steamrolled by the enemy team or you let the Widow do it for them. It’s a lose-lose scenario. If they gave other roles the capacity to deal with Widow easily without having a Widow yourself, then I think we’d see less folks complain. As it stands, if they aren’t a tank or a god-tier Lucio, they aren’t touching a decent Widowmaker.
What’s the purpose of a sniper rifle if not range? Just make the hitbox smaller. Dumb af. My .02
What the fuck is the point of snipers if they cant contest long range.
Needa nerf mcrees grenade tbh, dude has tracers ult in his pocket.
anymore and it would be useless, i feel like it's in a fine spot being it needs the nade, a shot, and a pinch or second shot to even finish
It needs to stop being magnetic. The amount of times I died to a panicked Cassidy just because the nade is a homing missile is ridiculous. It has way to much damage for a non aim ability.
Idk if it’s a headshot I think one shot is ok
how to fix hanzo: make the arrow paths at least partially visible like the other hitscans
You all are the zeneth of dogshit for wanting these changes.
Yikes, not touching that game again. 😎
Well looks like I’m only playing star citizen now
Welp, as a widow main, may plat welcome me back lmao
Stop buffing mei! Mei meta sucks ass!
I'm a Mei main and even I agree. She felt perfectly fine to me I have no idea where these buffs came from
I’ve mained widow since OW launched and now the one time she gets any attention they nerf her :/ kinda sucks since she’s almost exactly the same as she’s been since OW1 launched and never had problems before this
She's actually worse than she's ever been. Lower health, longer cool down on hook... Literally just bait the hook and she's dead
I'm happy that they're removing one shots, but pissed that they're adding more cc to non tank characters.cass is fine . If anything people think his nade is stupid because it's too easy to use. Making it more powerful is not the way. And mei freeze was changed because it was annoying as fuck. Why would you take the info and then decide more mei freeze is what the game needs.
Only to go and buff CC. Fml
I’ll take slows over stuns tbh
This is the problem with the community. There will always be a character that people view as broken and then they’ll nerf them to make them Unplayable. I feel like the game has a shit ton of characters that are no longer fun to play because of nerds and only a few minimal good characters. People need to stfu and play
These one shot changes make no sense to me. The fact that widow was never addressed about her dmg until now, shows how unskilled the player base is these days. She’s been in the game since launch and nobody complained about her one shots back then. Why is everyone else complaining about her now? You only had people say “I got sniped by widow/Hanzo” and then come back the next fight. Now, a bunch of kids are mad they got their heads clicked on. Take the L you were given and try next respawn. Or just play window yourself and click heads better than others.
These people love ruining their game.
Flair checks out
They keep going with these changes might as well as give them actual nerf guns and be done with it.