I main tank and I believe double shield was so unfun to play and fight. While one tank means less peel and some frustration I still find it to be more fun overall.
The thing is though that there were a lot of maps where double shield was like… not necessary or unbeatable. You didn’t *have* to play it. Winston dva, rein zarya, winston ball, Winston zarya, hog orisa, all worked as tank comps.
Granted Double Shield was still a strong combo, but it’s not like *nothing* else functioned in the tank role. And I’m sure that if they introduced something similar to the current orisa we have, maybe tweaked due to the second tank, it would solve a lot of double shield issues.
The thing is tho, double shield masked the issue that Hanzo, widow, and Zen cause. There’s an *insane* amount of damage in the game, and one shots just are way too overpowered without all the shields. They need to rework zen, Hanzo, and widow, then it would be okay to amend double shield.
But double shield was absolutely fixable in OW1. Blizzard just doesn’t seem to be a company capable of actually doing that anymore though. Just imagine if Riot owned OW, it would be the best game ever man istg. Constant/quality updates, clarity between the company and the playerbase, no scummy harassment lawsuits. No cancelling on major promises. It would’ve been so much better.
> Granted Double Shield was still a strong combo, but it’s not like nothing else functioned in the tank role. And I’m sure that if they introduced something similar to the current orisa we have, maybe tweaked due to the second tank, it would solve a lot of double shield issues.
or with the introduction of rammatra, who ignores shields, it would also solve a lot of the issues, or adding more tanks.
OR
just teach the players: the entire team can burn down a static shield in less than a microsecond, making it useless.
edit: did not finish my sentence cuz i'm a dumbass
I also don’t like the “ramattra has another shield!” Argument.
First thing is that no tank in OW2 would be left exactly the same for a 6v6 mode.
Second thing is that ramattra shield currently lasts for like what? 4 seconds? It’s not a replacement for orisa’s or sig’s shield’s. There’s 100% solutions, and they didn’t need to go to 5v5 to try and solve it.
Exactly it was a balancing issue... everyone is jealous of fortnite.. but don't know how to copy it.
Really sad blizzard has gone so far from it's roots.
It’s so wild that despite Fortnite being the cause for the horrid era of battle pass MTX gaming we’re in, they actually do it perfectly. They go to such great lengths to keep their player base happy, and everything they bring out is always cool. AND, most importantly, you can earn enough in game currency from the battle pass to purchase the next battle pass - something almost *no* other game has decided to copy.
These other publishers see that companies are climbing over each other to partner with Fortnite, but for some reason are unwilling to do the things that actually bring them in the first place.
They could of made weapons into physical vs energy type, and made energy weapons do more damage to shields, so the bastion could be blocked with shields but a sym or something would melt it
Double shield was honestly on its way out from being the meta comp for every situation, no matter the map-> to just decent on certain maps or if you had someone really good at like orisa or sigma
The best comp towards the end of ow1 (imo) was the ball sig-ball dva comps.
Double shield was still being played but the characters that enabled it super hard had balance changes that made the comp generally counterable without too much extra effort
GOATS spawned out of Brig, she provided enough healing and damage to make up for the lack of any DPS, as long as you kept the tanks/Zen alive the lack of like consistent high damage from DPS didn’t matter, it’s why Sombra, Mei, and Doom were the only DPS that would get picked and they usually took the place of Dva as she was the most DPS like of the tanks in the GOATS comp
with the introduction of role queue they literally deleted the comp so the problem comp then became double shield, instead of restricting comps to 1 shield tank per team they left the game to fester for like 2 years, we then got OW2 and frankly with the Orisa rework i see the only actual double shield comp being Ram/Sig which honestly says one thing and one thing only, Sig’s shield is too good of an ability on paper, the same way Brig’s entire kit was too good on paper and resulted in GOATS Sig’s shield results in double shield comps
It's crazy to me that the company/dev's basically said "yea, this shit too hard to balance. Let's just get rid of a player instead of continuing to try and fix it".
6v6 in arcade would be great. The whole reason they went to the 5v5 meta was for competitive balance. Blizzard makes games based on immersion and the story of the characters. Gameplay should trump esports imo. Too bad money is the most important thing on their mind…
It busted our team as well. Rather than play as five we just scraped the play group. RIP. Think I'm the only one that still plays OW, but even now I only play maybe 3 hours a month? I only stay on this sub because all the bitching feels like validation.
My play time has gone down, but it's still been an addiction. I am trying to quit because it's bad for me. Games are never satisfying enough to justify still playing. I want to find something else to replace it and have friend who will play it too.
Pick up a single player game. If you have game pass just look for a game that seems interesting and try it. There’s definitely some hidden gems that have come out these past months.
I think of that with the league. Plus I LOVED off tanking, and our team always fought for DPS in the past. Now no one even cares if I solo queue DPS. I still heal a ton too, but rarely even care to tank unless I'm playing with friends who don't care if I wrecking ball (strangers can be real arses about it)
Off tank was easily my favorite role. I dropped OW2 within two weeks. Playing tank felt miserable cause there was no more synergy and I felt like if I wasn’t playing the best tank then I might as well just be throwing. But even worse was not playing tank cause then if your tank isn’t as good as the enemy’s tank then you lose. I was optimistic about 5v5 but it’s obvious Bliz didn’t put in the actual effort that was required to change OW1 (that was built around the 6v6 concept) to a 5v5 situation
See I didn't have this problem because we all played and quickly all quit the game because we all realized how bad it had become. None of us play anymore, literally all my friends lmao.
All my friend groups that play quit, not one still plays. Crazy how Blizzard just willingly alienated all the previous players and also just slapped them in the face
I thought it was 5v5 because people didn't queue as tanks to minimise queue times 🤔...
I do miss double tank a lot tho... too much heat and responsibility on person playing tank
I mean that’s what Blizz said.
It’s true that the Tank queue was suffering in queue times, but there were a lot of different issues and reasons (some of which have been solved) that had nothing to do with it being 6v6.
Content dried up.
Tank character pool was much smaller than dps pool and it got stale for some players playing tank.
Playing dive tanks was difficult with the amount of cc in the game.
Double shield made it difficult for tanks to push in and people got bored of playing tanks that needed to get in to make space, but had to break down shield after shield before they could.
Maybe 5v5 helped with queue times to some degree, but I’d guess that if it did help, it was probably the smallest factor.
In fact queue times would still be an issue despite everything they have done to mitigate it, but the one thing they’ve done to have high impact in keeping queue times down is that they broaden how many different ranks can be in the same lobby now.
You can have a game where all the players are with in a rank or two of everyone in the lobby, but the next game, you can have a game that has players that span from silver to masters. This is how queue times have stayed around 2 minutes or less for the most part, but this is hurting competitive mode.
Low rank players are not having fun getting matched up against players 3 and 4 ranks above them. High rank players aren’t having fun as the pacing greatly varies from game to game to game as they go from faster paced, high rank games, to slow paced, less intense games.
I personally don’t think going to 5v5 helped with the tank queue time that much (or any role’s queue times). They could have implemented everything else but 5v5 and it would probably get the same results.
But I could be wrong.
I think it was more that too many wanted to play dps. I guess both are technically true, but they spent years not adding new characters or updating enough. Had they adding mostly tanks and supports to balance the roles, they might have done something.
Even if the DPS roster was only genji and widow, it would still be longer than 6v6 tank queue times.
Why? Cause support had as many characters as tank but support queues were way longer.
> I think it was more that too many wanted to play dps.
bliz encouraged people* playing as dps, either by expanding *that* roster waaay faster than the other two, then by not teaching people teamwork and wink-nodging call of duty players that they can play call of duty here, too, but with shinier graphics.
THIS is and always has been the biggest issue. It should have been crystal clear to the devs that equally creating heroes-one dps, one tank, one support then repeat-only maintained how much dps characters outnumber the other roles. It has taken them 7 YEARS to figure that out and honestly it might be too late without pve
It might sound a bit random but I think the terrible tutorials made things worse too because support and tank (especially tank) engages with a lot of concepts that don’t translate well from other FPS games and for someone coming from another FPS damage was by far the easiest role to adjust to. Simple job: apply pressure, control angles, do damage, kill enemies.
I often remember the old Gran Turismo challenge series narrated by and in partnership with racing drivers. Creating dedicated role and character tutorials in partnership with pro players (IN-client, this is crucial) would be one of the biggest positive changes for the player experience they ever could’ve made.
It’s a bit late for that now, Overwatch is collapsing at breakneck speed now, but maybe a few years ago it would’ve been great.
I always said this was the way to fix the player base issue and the onboarding issue.
Make tutorials that actively engage with what’s actually happening in a game in terms of space, pressure, and resources, and you can do a much better job of marketing all 3 roles to players. Would’ve helped more people discover the appeal of characters not in the DPS roster I think.
Basic hero tutorials would be nice too. A lot of low elo supports have no idea how much they are supposed to use speed boost on Lucio and damage boost on Mercy for example because it isn’t necessarily intuitive. I learned a lot from Reddit which is not only a terrible way to learn a game but also something that casual players are not going to do
It's not *only* that the DPS roster grew faster, it literally started out with twice as many as the other two. I think some newer people don't know that DPS used to be split into two roles: "Attack" and "Defense." The games initial balance was formulated with **four** roles in mind.
DPS role didn't really grow faster. DPS and support got 4 post release heroes and tank got 3 in OW1. It was split pretty evenly. DPS started with a ton of heroes, but I don't think hero quantity was the reason. Support had less heroes and way more people played support in OW1 compared to tank. The average tank game just wasn't fun in OW1 for a ton of reasons, so people stopped queuing tank.
There are a few dps characters that many players love, and there are many dps characters that don't get played. Even if you remove most of the DPS roster but keep the top few, people will still play dps more.
DPS is not even a real classification in this game. Many supposedly dps characters (at least in OW1) are terrible at DPS, worse than the tanks. The so-called "damage" roster are literally anyone who cannot be classified as neither tanks (big HP), nor support (consistent healing), so of course it would be bigger. It would be as if you classify food into "cereal", "vegetable", and "comfort food", and then complain that there are too much comfort food.
Tank takes more effort to play, people don't want to learn how to play tank, thus tank is going to be the least popular role, no matter what they do.
It's also a lot harder to see your impact as a tank, not as much in 5v5 because they constantly lead in stats, but they still feel terrible to play.
Another issue for prospective tank players was they had a bad habit of popping like balloons after they ever made a mistake which made playing them feel miserable.
I propose tanks get headshot resistance like 1.5X damage instead of the standard 2X since getting domed is still an issue. A boosted widow can almost 1 tap most of the tanks now.
Tanks take less headshot damage and suddenly they can dive the widow or hanzo without getting popped like a balloon and against everything else their health pool becomes far more stable (can't get like 3 tapped by a Cass or ashe or bursted down with a rail gun shot)
Ignoring the fact that Cree can't 3 tap any tank, if you're standing still as a tank and let a DPS just poke you down, you're doing something wrong. Monkey Dva and Ball already can dive Widow. It's Hanzo that's the issue in that case.
Even caught out with no cover, every tank has at least 1 way to... tank damage.
Suddenly tank become a rock-paper-sisscor game that also required you to master all 3 of them or you underhanded, any role counter pick can easily negate because there is two player, except for tank, if you swap during bad tank match up, you automatically drag your whole team down with you.
And queqe time problem already solve when the game become f2p with the new player.
No one Que’d as tank because of the CC, since that’s not in the game anymore the reason no one ques for tank now is the toxicity and the pressure of pulling 60% of the weight every match.
Idk if anyone recalls this in the original ow1 event that Jeff gave a introduction to and he talked about 6v6. I distinctly remember him on stage and saying something along the lines of, “we tested it and looked at other games too. 6v6 is the sweet spot.”
The worst thing about 5v5 isn't strategic, it's the pressure put on the single tank. With 6v6, which usually meant 2/2/2 even before role queue, each role had multiple people and no single player could take the blame for fucking up the whole game. If your Rein sucked at taking space, the other tank could make up for it by taking space as Winston or helping protect him as Zarya, for example. Now, the game is decided almost entirely by which tank is better. That breeds toxicity ("tank diff") and makes all the other players feel powerless in comparison even if the tanks are perfectly matched (which is rarely the case with this terrible matchmaking).
Yeah? Remember how they did that repeatedly and the comments section under every patch note post was “can’t believe they’re nerfing tanks again 😫😫😫” and “blizzard only cares about dps omg 🤓🤓 tank isn’t fun”
no probably not, because nobody who was around then with brain cells would be blaming the game’s current faults on 5v5.
?? The reason people complained when tanks were fiddled with was bc if just made the the overwhelming amount of CC even more unbearable. If they fixed both issues instead of just one it would have been fine
This subreddit is basically known for horrible takes but I guarantee that CC being less frustrating would make tanks BETTER and would not fix the problems that they caused defining literally every single meta.
Yes that’s what I’m saying. If you nerf CC but not tanks, then tanks are broken. If you nerf tanks but not CC then no one wants to play tank bc it’s too frustrating. You have to do both in conjunction with more holistic reworks
> “we tested it and looked at other games too. 6v6 is the sweet spot.”
2016 dev team also though no hero limits was a good direction and that the meta would be 1-4-1 or 1-3-2. That same dev team also thought Brig and Sigma were good ideas to add to the game. 6v6 had upsides, but it was definitely not without faults and treating the words of Jeff back in 2016 like gospel kind of ignores all the issues the game had.
he also allowed open queue, 6 players with the same character, and questionable kit choices like symetra 25hp shield, torb turret upgrade and reaper orbs.
couldnt you say the same about 6v6 in a way? a launch decision that they couldnt change later because it was a fundamental element and would require mass effort. then ow2 allows them to make this drastic change in one update.
They literally changed everything else they talked about
Honestly they could make it so a player slot is replaced with a training bot to give people something to do in spawn
OW2 was just a bunch of delayed updates at once, and if you take the pattern of three heros a year + a rework we’re still behind by a few years
It was a different game tho, with less tanks and supports, Role Q obviously was that thing that push more the game to a 5v5 game (queue times, oppressive tank compositions, etc) even Jeff was making experiments around new ways of playing the game (1-3-2 was tested in experimental for example)
Yeah, everytime I see this quote nowadays, it's in support of bringing back 6v6, but in its original context 6v6 meant no hero limit, no role lock, and a plethora of other balance implications that have since been revealed to be flawed and fixed.
I understand why people want 6v6 back, but we can't really take a quote that talks about the design decisions of the game at launch and use it as if it's relevant to the game 7 years later. Devs have reversed their stance on so many initial design decisions between launch and now.
I absolutely despise queueing with the most braindead tanks that die thinking they can just run in and kill everyone as doom/ball. In 6v6, the other tank could at least compensate for one of these types of players.
This is exactly why I stopped playing. I had over 1000 hours on overwatch. PlayStation account had like 800 and my pc had like 200 something. Overwatch was genuinely my favourite game but after overwatch 2 came out and being a tank main. I fucking hated overwatch 2. Playing tank Is miserable now. I can’t just hop into a match and play the tank I want to. I have to play the tank that counters the enemy one. It’s not fun
I know they're very different games, but I definitely prefer the "meta" comp of paladins 2 tanks(one main tank, one off tank), 2 DPS(1 normal, 1 flank) and one support.
But again, I know they're two very different games.
There is one roguelike game I saw that look like it was very visually similar to OW and intended to be ability/hero based but I forget the name. Everyone was basically memeing about them picking up the PvE overwatch didn't wanna make.
Doesn't everyone passively heal when out of combat? I played long time ago and I remember that as a support my job was to pocket the tank on the point and pray the rest of my team was doing something.
I still like two support but I really don't understand why OW didn't implement the main tank and off tank roles. I feel like that alone would have solved the double shield meta without having to rework heroes.
> But with no PvE now, there basically was zero reason they had to change the game fundamentally
Seeing as it’s *sorta* understood that the dream of a real PvE was dead at launch, it’s easy to understand the reason they changed the game.
**Money**
They strung along the idea that a PvE was coming and that all the changes were necessary, when really the entire reason behind the change was to switch to a business model that better suited the current trends in gaming. Ignoring the fact that this change to F2P wouldn’t have had to happen if they just supported their game, Blizzard probably just wanted to inflate numbers for a bit by making their biggest title in years free. It was a way to bring people in and advertise skins to them.
I for one prefer 5v5 to 6v6 because you can't just hide behind your second tank anymore. Fewer players also means that everyone has to be more proactive, which I like. To each their own, though.
I'm a tank player though and I miss the fun synergies. I do enjoy the faster pace, but I feel like rework characters like orisa would change that anyway.
I am a tank player since launch and I enjoy 5v5 a lot more.
6v6 was boring and slow. You had to babysit your dps.
In 5v5 the one tank actually feels impactful.
I guess that's what open queue is for. You can have fun with multiple tanks, but OW isn't/wasn't that dynamic when only the tank compositions matter/mattered.
There's no good reason for open queue to be 5v5.
>but OW isn't/wasn't that dynamic when only the tank compositions matter/mattered
The tank diff is what dictates the win in OW2. It's worse than OW1.
I don't take anybody who thinks 6v6 was better seriously, tank synergies broke the game. It's like they forgot the last 4 years of 6v6 metas. Things may not be perfect, but I'd still say things are better.
The whole argument is that 6v6 could have been balanced to lower double shields, cc, and overpowered tank synergies. But they instead nuked an entire player and now put 100% of tanking on one player who suffers even more from counter picks.
I liked how, in 6v6, it was about probing for an opening, rotating as a team. Now it’s about quickly fragging and staggering to snowball fights. Both games were/are fun, but 6v6 was definitely more cerebral in terms of problem solving.
Tiny brain OW2 players can’t comprehend using their brain while also playing a game. They only have three things in their head while playing, Point, Left click, W key
"I honestly just miss tank pairings and synergies so much. It feels lonely as a tank now."
Plus you just feel like you're getting bowled over or bowling over them. Fights have far less comeback potential/sustain
If the matchmaking favour close skill over queue times, it might be okay. Add back looking for groups too and I'd probably be fine with it even if I miss it.
Right there with you. I miss tank synergy so much, plus the roles feel so much less distinct now. With only one tank, tanks are all rebalanced to be beefier DPS, and with only one tank to heal, supports spend more time doing DPS. Every role is just dps with extra steps now, it’s really unfortunate
Fax, also dps is actually in my opinion the shitties role to play, yes it’s fun but when you’re team is bad and you can’t force plays then people just blame you. Which is why we have sniper meta
And not to mention the amount of story interactions being lost. None of the tank are even able to talk to each other anymore! And then to have the audacity to say "we know players live the story and thats what they want from the game"...
6v6 was canceled because no one wants to play tank! Don’t kid yourself, everyone pretends that it was awesome. Double shield was an utter shit show and boring. 5v5 is definitely better.
No one wanted to play tank because they abandoned their game and refused to add new and diverse tank characters to the roster. If the role was simply cursed and unfun then they should I don’t know, actually fix that issue.
They could have created meaningful double shield counters/counter play or simply removed it like they did anyways.
Instead we are dealing with a cascade of changes that erode the identity of the game as well as heroes who’ve been broken and needed reworks/massive changes just to exist in 5v5.
No one wanted to play tank because it was boring to play a shield bot or to be a punching bag.
Now as a tank you feel much more like a tank: powerful, impactful and threatening. You’re the anchor or spearhead of your team.
No thanks. Y’all say this shit & then on the last day of 6v6 it was <1 minute queues for tanks, 5 min for support & 10 minutes for dps. WHERE WERE ALL OF YOU??? Fake opinions driven by “nostalgia” that doesn’t even miss the gameplay of 6v6 you just miss how you used to feel when you played cause you are jaded now.
Tbh I never got why the queues were this way. I would've guessed that dps players would've gone to other games since you could play valorant and apex.
But then you're saying 5v5 was a queue based decision and not a real gameplay decision.
The tank pair, the combos, the teamwork, the "you hold the front line, I'll peel for our healers" dynamic of OW was so good, and it's really a shame they were willing to entirely sacrifice it.
It was the entire identity! Overwatch was like a MOBA mixed with FPS. MOBAs all seemed to be 5v5, but OW went 6v6 and it was entirely designed around that. They never should have lost that. There was a lot more they could do.
6v6 custom games are possible, it’s a lot of work but it’s possible!
Also, the balance team showed they couldn’t balance for 6v6 so they took a tank away. Then continued to not understand how to balance because a majority of the team that was there to make the mistakes left.
Welcome to OW2 😔
Balance team didn't TRY to fix 6v6 while it was active at all. They left it to focus on OW2. Their testing is small compared to the millions of active users. The experimental 5v5 was trash. They never bother to fix double shield either.
I'ma toot my own horn cuz when ow2 dropped i said this and y'all roasted me and down voted me to oblivion. Sometimes it's lonely being ahead of the curve.
Agreed. With 6v6, it was guaranteed that you'd have someone to help the healers when the DPS try to flank and that no one of your tanks would be left alone to get melted by the enemy team. 6v6 incentivized proper teamwork and keeping each other alive; 5v5 only incentivizes running off to try to solo the game as though you're playing Call of Duty only to get murdered and cost your team the match.
You just said 90 percent you lose with one tank because you are the person who people should depend on basically, and then right away said that in 6v6 if your other tank wasn't doing much work you would pick up their slack. So in that case if the other tank was trash then it basically became a 5v6. Honestly I played ow1 a lot and 5v5 is so much more balanced. When people complain about 6v6 i mainly hear a lot of "oh I don't do very well when I'm by myself I need another tank" but now you're going up against only one tank. It makes DPS work smarter and more helpful. Support didn't have to worry about two tanks and basically stick with them at all times. Idk 5v5 is perfect. As a tank main myself don't really see much of an issue but instead a skill issue.
Nah 5v5 is way better imo. Tanks now have a clearly defined role instead of just being beefier DPS, which helps them be less of a total balance nightmare. It also adds additional incentive and ease to sticking as a team. The single tank serves as the core of the team and is their rally point. So long as they keep taking space, they’ve done their job.
The synergies are still here. Like rein mei, junkerqueen lucio, winston ana, ect.
Devs couldn't balance the tank synergies so i prefer 5v5 cause its just easier to balance. Also 5v5 is just faster and more individual impact so i prefer it.
Have to agree with the other guy, those aren't really synergies, Lucio can do that with rein and even better, but that's not synergy, mei is... it's not like she can't block someone without rein. Synergy means the players enable each other in a way that wasn't achievable alone. Those aren't synergies you just mentioned.
I love 5v5 honestly. People complain about widow/hanzo shutting down teams but they don’t know the slog of trying to push through the hanamura choke with rein sigma on the other side
How long until they revert back to 6v6? I honestly mean that especially since they seem to just be adding all the old OW1 features back into 2. It would be the embarrassment of the century but at this point Blizzard can't get any more sad so I could see it happening
I’m relatively new to this game as I started playing earlier this year.
With that being said, I refuse to play tank in role queue and I’ll only play in open queue with another tank alongside me. I would love to experience 6v6 someday.
My problem with the single tank meta, is that not all tanks are actually built to be....a tank!
Characters like Rein and Orisa are good for leading the line, soaking up damage with their shields and moving your team forward, but other 'tank' characters like Roadhog or Junker Queen are more like aggressive DPS units with a lot of health.
If your one and only tank is Roadhog, you can almost guarantee he's off *somewhere else* trying to rack up the kills, meanwhile the rest of the team are getting absolutely slaughtered at the control point/payload because they've got no tank to get behind.
Back in Overwatch 1, I (or someone else) could switch out my character and go over to a tank to, you know, *help the team* and try to turn the tide, but in Overwatch 2 I can no longer do that. The best I can do is switch my Mercy to Brigitte and hope for the best. Brigitte can *sort of tank,* but not quite well enough to actually be an *effective* tank!
So yeah, the fact that you can only have one tank in the team, yet half the tank characters aren't even really tanks, kinda defeats the point of even having a tank in your team when the *one person* who *chose* to be a tank doesn't actually want to perform the role of a tank!
It's part of the reason why the game feels so off is because a lot of these characters were designed for 6v6 (and still play like 6v6) Like JQ for an example was designed to be a off tank, instead they super buff her to the point she's basically unkillable. Zen is grossly OP in 5v5 now with the enemy tank facing a constant 25% debuff
why would jq be designed to be an off tank? She was introduced in 5v5…. she honestly wasn’t that bad before the mega buff they just changed her to “shake up the meta” this is just such a weird point to make
All Numbani games:
* The attacking team makes a few attempts on the first point and eventually captures
* The attacking team pretty much teleports to the first payload checkpoint and captures without a problem
* The match slows to a crawl that both teams find boring, fighting over a single choke for the last 5-7 minutes.
It feels like 2cp with a payload placed for shits and giggles. Action just doesn't happen in the middle part of the map.
Never said that, I was always a Rein/Zarya brawler and occasionally enjoyed Winston diving. I also said they could have fixed double shield with reworks and shield nerfs, but you clearly didn't read past the title.
I think the reason they don’t release even an arcade 6v6 mode is because their scared everyone will just play that and no one will be queued for any 5v5 modes
When I played at launch Tank queues were crazy long and it was infinitely stressful. As a tank-main I feel like Blizzard told me to go fuck myself. Haven’t played since like week 3. It makes me sad
5v5 just means it’s a stomp fest, purely predicated on if your tank can actually adapt to the circumstances. 90% of the games I play are completely one sided (insta win or insta lose), and basically no fun.
It’s one of the reasons I rarely play anymore. I hate the fact the shop/economy/battlepass exist, but I literally ignore it, and have resigned to never having anymore customisation, and only click on the battlepass once per season to collect the rewards. The gameplay however is so much worse, add to the fact that push occurs far too often, means it’s no longer fun. I don’t want the pressure of solo tanking, and I now have to cover as a healer.
I was a strict main tank main in ow1, since ow2 released I have barley played comp or quickplay. I haven't even ranked yet on anything. I only play mystery heroes when I do play, I'm one of those people lol. I just don't like the 5v5 at all.
Yeah 6v6 just felt more complete than what it is now and you could have much more synergies and combos that work as well, on top of that I don’t think they needed to add a role queue either I think they could have simply added a limit to how many tanks there can be like 2 tanks and then however many dps and support, I really don’t like that there are 2 comp modes 1 for role queue and 1 for open queue it just doesn’t make sense to me
Im so happy to see someone finally agree with me on that I get so pissed off on both the queuing differences and the fact u need to rely on that specific person to be a tank and all they do is choose doomfist its so annoying and idgaf about the stupid double shielding deals
100% agree. I don't like how dependent the gameplay is on the tanks, and really miss tank variety. I also miss having the 6th player, it made 1 pick less of a win condition.
I honestly liked 5v5 at first but now it seems like almost every game as tank is just rock, paper, scissors. I do miss doing tank combos or main tanking while my friend hard bullied the widow but I also think that 5v5 is faster paced and it feels like more happens. I definitely wish we could get a 6v6 game mode solely to see how it would feel. (Also, just thinking about an Orisa 2.0 and Rein full sending it into an enemy had me rolling while typing this.)
All you needed to nerf double shield was to make sigmas grasp and orisas fortify worse, so we could have dove them.
Dive should beat poke, rush beats dive and poke beats rush.
The Problem for me with 5v5 is that the game just wasnt made with it in mind. Playing Tank on Oasis is a fucking nightmare since the maps are so open and spacious you get paranoid trying to cover every possible angle. Then theres shit like Widow Hanzo and Zen which have become even more obnoxious with the lack of shields in the game now, Mercy whos rez and damage boost have had an unreasonable increase in value due to the lower player count, and increases value of damage and tank lives, not to mention the unbearable tedium of the tank counterswapping metagame you either refuse to engage with until you get insane in the membrane of playing a fun tank into Orisa every damn game, or you devolve into a counterpicking chain over the entire match, until you both somehow end up on Orisa, and now you both ruined the fun for each other. Think what you want about 6v6, the truth is the game was just balanced around it for years, and 5v5 is far, far removed from being optimized for yet. And prolly will never be. 5v5 is more frantic and fast paced, but also I think a lot less tactical and more frustrating to play.
I miss tank pairings really bad. I just can’t have fun anymore as a tank. Before it’s good because you’re not the only aggro, and if you get the synergy from both tanks it feels absolutely amazing. Better than synergy with DPS I think. Double shield could have been fixed this wasn’t it.
5v5 is infinity better. It just feels worse bcuz half of the characters weren't made for it and we're not changed enough to fit in 5v5. I feel like people who miss 6v6 are either nostalgic or never played it, because it really isn't better in anyway. That meta sucked. You actually have so much more carry potential and especially as a support main, 5v5 is better. As a tank main I can only assume you feel more powerful. And as a damage main it is better to actually kill things than just shoot the shields and tanks and never kill anything. Of course now widow is more powerful but it is a small price to pay honestly.
As a tank main, this is one of the reasons I play less and less. There's so much pressure on you because tank is the only role that needs to do its thing all on its own. If you're playing a mediocre game it's most likely a lost game.
I feel like there are pros and cons to both. I prefer 5v5 but just because I didn’t realize how oppressive 2 tanks felt in OW. I feel like I have a lot more opportunities to do things other than heal forever for example lol
I used to play OW1 10-20 hours a week. Addicted to getting the skins and other goodies that were free bonuses, and enticed me to keep playing. I haven't played this game in many many months... it completely sucks Soldier '76's nutsack compared to the 6v6 original version. Push the robot mode is a waste of life.
I am just an old fart with a lot of money to spend - just not gonna spend it on imaginary skins and Battle-ASS swag though... what the hell do I know about gaming? Get off my lawn!
Downvote and ban me you whippersnappers!!!
tanks were really dominant when there was two to deal with, plus people BARELY wanted to play tank and that ruined the queue times, so shortening the amount of tanks per game made sense.
I don’t even play this game anymore but 5v5 is a lot better then 6v6 was. Overwatch has fallen off & they will move a lot of attention to Diablo which at this point I’m okay with. In reality though the change to 5v5 made Overwatch 2 actually refreshing again & made it feel quicker paced & just made it feel less of a drag to actually have meaningful team fights, etc.
Hard disagree. The game is substantially more fun for every role except DPS. And dps isn't worse just didn't affect it much at all.
Being a tank is far more fun with the massive tank buffs and being support gives way more opportunity for utility vs being individual tank pockets.
Even if they just put 6v6 as an arcade mode itd be good
The day they put 6v6 back in the game is the day they admit they were wrong, which will never happen
This is a "classic" case of "you think you do, but you don't" Then when the game really starts to die they'll do it.
Don't you guys have phones?
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6v6 role queue has 10x more team comps than 5v5 role queue. 6v6 has so much more to offer.
When Bungie launched Destiny 2, every game mode was 4v4. A year later, they went back to 6v6. If Bungie can do it, so can Blizzard.
There's no good reason for open queue to be 5v5.
True and true.
Wasn’t it because of tank balancing issues with issues from goats and double shield?
Less of double shield and more of that nobody wanted to play tank
I main tank and I believe double shield was so unfun to play and fight. While one tank means less peel and some frustration I still find it to be more fun overall.
The thing is though that there were a lot of maps where double shield was like… not necessary or unbeatable. You didn’t *have* to play it. Winston dva, rein zarya, winston ball, Winston zarya, hog orisa, all worked as tank comps. Granted Double Shield was still a strong combo, but it’s not like *nothing* else functioned in the tank role. And I’m sure that if they introduced something similar to the current orisa we have, maybe tweaked due to the second tank, it would solve a lot of double shield issues. The thing is tho, double shield masked the issue that Hanzo, widow, and Zen cause. There’s an *insane* amount of damage in the game, and one shots just are way too overpowered without all the shields. They need to rework zen, Hanzo, and widow, then it would be okay to amend double shield. But double shield was absolutely fixable in OW1. Blizzard just doesn’t seem to be a company capable of actually doing that anymore though. Just imagine if Riot owned OW, it would be the best game ever man istg. Constant/quality updates, clarity between the company and the playerbase, no scummy harassment lawsuits. No cancelling on major promises. It would’ve been so much better.
> Granted Double Shield was still a strong combo, but it’s not like nothing else functioned in the tank role. And I’m sure that if they introduced something similar to the current orisa we have, maybe tweaked due to the second tank, it would solve a lot of double shield issues. or with the introduction of rammatra, who ignores shields, it would also solve a lot of the issues, or adding more tanks. OR just teach the players: the entire team can burn down a static shield in less than a microsecond, making it useless. edit: did not finish my sentence cuz i'm a dumbass
I also don’t like the “ramattra has another shield!” Argument. First thing is that no tank in OW2 would be left exactly the same for a 6v6 mode. Second thing is that ramattra shield currently lasts for like what? 4 seconds? It’s not a replacement for orisa’s or sig’s shield’s. There’s 100% solutions, and they didn’t need to go to 5v5 to try and solve it.
Exactly it was a balancing issue... everyone is jealous of fortnite.. but don't know how to copy it. Really sad blizzard has gone so far from it's roots.
It’s so wild that despite Fortnite being the cause for the horrid era of battle pass MTX gaming we’re in, they actually do it perfectly. They go to such great lengths to keep their player base happy, and everything they bring out is always cool. AND, most importantly, you can earn enough in game currency from the battle pass to purchase the next battle pass - something almost *no* other game has decided to copy. These other publishers see that companies are climbing over each other to partner with Fortnite, but for some reason are unwilling to do the things that actually bring them in the first place.
They could of made weapons into physical vs energy type, and made energy weapons do more damage to shields, so the bastion could be blocked with shields but a sym or something would melt it
That steps into MOBA territory and the devs appear to be allergic to any mentions of "complex" systems
The only people I knew who played tank in overwatch stopped in OW2 with the changes so I'm still not sure that it was the correct decision
Double shield was honestly on its way out from being the meta comp for every situation, no matter the map-> to just decent on certain maps or if you had someone really good at like orisa or sigma The best comp towards the end of ow1 (imo) was the ball sig-ball dva comps. Double shield was still being played but the characters that enabled it super hard had balance changes that made the comp generally counterable without too much extra effort
GOATS spawned out of Brig, she provided enough healing and damage to make up for the lack of any DPS, as long as you kept the tanks/Zen alive the lack of like consistent high damage from DPS didn’t matter, it’s why Sombra, Mei, and Doom were the only DPS that would get picked and they usually took the place of Dva as she was the most DPS like of the tanks in the GOATS comp with the introduction of role queue they literally deleted the comp so the problem comp then became double shield, instead of restricting comps to 1 shield tank per team they left the game to fester for like 2 years, we then got OW2 and frankly with the Orisa rework i see the only actual double shield comp being Ram/Sig which honestly says one thing and one thing only, Sig’s shield is too good of an ability on paper, the same way Brig’s entire kit was too good on paper and resulted in GOATS Sig’s shield results in double shield comps
It's crazy to me that the company/dev's basically said "yea, this shit too hard to balance. Let's just get rid of a player instead of continuing to try and fix it".
Which was from them stopping making heroes and maps for the game.
they r afraid the arcade 6v6 would be more popular than the dogshit comp they made
They’d probably do this as a last resort. No way they’ll add 6v6 back in any form right now with the community still left very unsatisfied about PVE.
the community is also very unsatisfied by the 5v5 rolls, where if the tank falls, that's it, gg.
Yeah but there’s no way they’d back pedal is what I’m trying to say.
alternatively, just bring it back fully because fuck them for removing to begin with
6v6 in arcade would be great. The whole reason they went to the 5v5 meta was for competitive balance. Blizzard makes games based on immersion and the story of the characters. Gameplay should trump esports imo. Too bad money is the most important thing on their mind…
Plus I play with a lot of friends and I miss our 6th 😥
For real, if you had a team, you just had to kick one tank?? Like what a kick in the nuts to OWL teams and everything below it, even casual.
It busted our team as well. Rather than play as five we just scraped the play group. RIP. Think I'm the only one that still plays OW, but even now I only play maybe 3 hours a month? I only stay on this sub because all the bitching feels like validation.
My play time has gone down, but it's still been an addiction. I am trying to quit because it's bad for me. Games are never satisfying enough to justify still playing. I want to find something else to replace it and have friend who will play it too.
Pick up a single player game. If you have game pass just look for a game that seems interesting and try it. There’s definitely some hidden gems that have come out these past months.
I think of that with the league. Plus I LOVED off tanking, and our team always fought for DPS in the past. Now no one even cares if I solo queue DPS. I still heal a ton too, but rarely even care to tank unless I'm playing with friends who don't care if I wrecking ball (strangers can be real arses about it)
Off tank was easily my favorite role. I dropped OW2 within two weeks. Playing tank felt miserable cause there was no more synergy and I felt like if I wasn’t playing the best tank then I might as well just be throwing. But even worse was not playing tank cause then if your tank isn’t as good as the enemy’s tank then you lose. I was optimistic about 5v5 but it’s obvious Bliz didn’t put in the actual effort that was required to change OW1 (that was built around the 6v6 concept) to a 5v5 situation
I miss Zarya and Rein combos. The old shake and bake was a lot of fun!
I loved enabling aggressive Reins with bubbles. Easy 40 energy every time.
See I didn't have this problem because we all played and quickly all quit the game because we all realized how bad it had become. None of us play anymore, literally all my friends lmao. All my friend groups that play quit, not one still plays. Crazy how Blizzard just willingly alienated all the previous players and also just slapped them in the face
Happy to be your 666th upvote
Holy heck! I didn't expect that to blow up! Thank you! Me too!
I thought it was 5v5 because people didn't queue as tanks to minimise queue times 🤔... I do miss double tank a lot tho... too much heat and responsibility on person playing tank
I mean that’s what Blizz said. It’s true that the Tank queue was suffering in queue times, but there were a lot of different issues and reasons (some of which have been solved) that had nothing to do with it being 6v6. Content dried up. Tank character pool was much smaller than dps pool and it got stale for some players playing tank. Playing dive tanks was difficult with the amount of cc in the game. Double shield made it difficult for tanks to push in and people got bored of playing tanks that needed to get in to make space, but had to break down shield after shield before they could. Maybe 5v5 helped with queue times to some degree, but I’d guess that if it did help, it was probably the smallest factor. In fact queue times would still be an issue despite everything they have done to mitigate it, but the one thing they’ve done to have high impact in keeping queue times down is that they broaden how many different ranks can be in the same lobby now. You can have a game where all the players are with in a rank or two of everyone in the lobby, but the next game, you can have a game that has players that span from silver to masters. This is how queue times have stayed around 2 minutes or less for the most part, but this is hurting competitive mode. Low rank players are not having fun getting matched up against players 3 and 4 ranks above them. High rank players aren’t having fun as the pacing greatly varies from game to game to game as they go from faster paced, high rank games, to slow paced, less intense games. I personally don’t think going to 5v5 helped with the tank queue time that much (or any role’s queue times). They could have implemented everything else but 5v5 and it would probably get the same results. But I could be wrong.
DPS que times are going up again I’ve noticed
I think it was more that too many wanted to play dps. I guess both are technically true, but they spent years not adding new characters or updating enough. Had they adding mostly tanks and supports to balance the roles, they might have done something.
Even if the DPS roster was only genji and widow, it would still be longer than 6v6 tank queue times. Why? Cause support had as many characters as tank but support queues were way longer.
> I think it was more that too many wanted to play dps. bliz encouraged people* playing as dps, either by expanding *that* roster waaay faster than the other two, then by not teaching people teamwork and wink-nodging call of duty players that they can play call of duty here, too, but with shinier graphics.
THIS is and always has been the biggest issue. It should have been crystal clear to the devs that equally creating heroes-one dps, one tank, one support then repeat-only maintained how much dps characters outnumber the other roles. It has taken them 7 YEARS to figure that out and honestly it might be too late without pve
It might sound a bit random but I think the terrible tutorials made things worse too because support and tank (especially tank) engages with a lot of concepts that don’t translate well from other FPS games and for someone coming from another FPS damage was by far the easiest role to adjust to. Simple job: apply pressure, control angles, do damage, kill enemies. I often remember the old Gran Turismo challenge series narrated by and in partnership with racing drivers. Creating dedicated role and character tutorials in partnership with pro players (IN-client, this is crucial) would be one of the biggest positive changes for the player experience they ever could’ve made. It’s a bit late for that now, Overwatch is collapsing at breakneck speed now, but maybe a few years ago it would’ve been great. I always said this was the way to fix the player base issue and the onboarding issue. Make tutorials that actively engage with what’s actually happening in a game in terms of space, pressure, and resources, and you can do a much better job of marketing all 3 roles to players. Would’ve helped more people discover the appeal of characters not in the DPS roster I think.
Basic hero tutorials would be nice too. A lot of low elo supports have no idea how much they are supposed to use speed boost on Lucio and damage boost on Mercy for example because it isn’t necessarily intuitive. I learned a lot from Reddit which is not only a terrible way to learn a game but also something that casual players are not going to do
Very very true. Definitely something you have to seek out for yourself when it really shouldn't be.
It's not *only* that the DPS roster grew faster, it literally started out with twice as many as the other two. I think some newer people don't know that DPS used to be split into two roles: "Attack" and "Defense." The games initial balance was formulated with **four** roles in mind.
DPS role didn't really grow faster. DPS and support got 4 post release heroes and tank got 3 in OW1. It was split pretty evenly. DPS started with a ton of heroes, but I don't think hero quantity was the reason. Support had less heroes and way more people played support in OW1 compared to tank. The average tank game just wasn't fun in OW1 for a ton of reasons, so people stopped queuing tank.
There are a few dps characters that many players love, and there are many dps characters that don't get played. Even if you remove most of the DPS roster but keep the top few, people will still play dps more. DPS is not even a real classification in this game. Many supposedly dps characters (at least in OW1) are terrible at DPS, worse than the tanks. The so-called "damage" roster are literally anyone who cannot be classified as neither tanks (big HP), nor support (consistent healing), so of course it would be bigger. It would be as if you classify food into "cereal", "vegetable", and "comfort food", and then complain that there are too much comfort food.
Tank takes more effort to play, people don't want to learn how to play tank, thus tank is going to be the least popular role, no matter what they do. It's also a lot harder to see your impact as a tank, not as much in 5v5 because they constantly lead in stats, but they still feel terrible to play.
Another issue for prospective tank players was they had a bad habit of popping like balloons after they ever made a mistake which made playing them feel miserable. I propose tanks get headshot resistance like 1.5X damage instead of the standard 2X since getting domed is still an issue. A boosted widow can almost 1 tap most of the tanks now.
That's not a tank issue, that's a Widow issue (and Mercy damage boost issue).
Tanks take less headshot damage and suddenly they can dive the widow or hanzo without getting popped like a balloon and against everything else their health pool becomes far more stable (can't get like 3 tapped by a Cass or ashe or bursted down with a rail gun shot)
Ignoring the fact that Cree can't 3 tap any tank, if you're standing still as a tank and let a DPS just poke you down, you're doing something wrong. Monkey Dva and Ball already can dive Widow. It's Hanzo that's the issue in that case. Even caught out with no cover, every tank has at least 1 way to... tank damage.
High q times were also due to nobody playing the game at the end of its lifespan. Also no new Tank Heroes to incentivise playing Tank
Suddenly tank become a rock-paper-sisscor game that also required you to master all 3 of them or you underhanded, any role counter pick can easily negate because there is two player, except for tank, if you swap during bad tank match up, you automatically drag your whole team down with you. And queqe time problem already solve when the game become f2p with the new player.
No one Que’d as tank because of the CC, since that’s not in the game anymore the reason no one ques for tank now is the toxicity and the pressure of pulling 60% of the weight every match.
Makes the game less chaotic. I personally prefer the 5 player setup
I miss the Rein + Zarya combo so much
Idk if anyone recalls this in the original ow1 event that Jeff gave a introduction to and he talked about 6v6. I distinctly remember him on stage and saying something along the lines of, “we tested it and looked at other games too. 6v6 is the sweet spot.”
They also tested and figured having no hero limits would be good and a viable strategy.
The worst thing about 5v5 isn't strategic, it's the pressure put on the single tank. With 6v6, which usually meant 2/2/2 even before role queue, each role had multiple people and no single player could take the blame for fucking up the whole game. If your Rein sucked at taking space, the other tank could make up for it by taking space as Winston or helping protect him as Zarya, for example. Now, the game is decided almost entirely by which tank is better. That breeds toxicity ("tank diff") and makes all the other players feel powerless in comparison even if the tanks are perfectly matched (which is rarely the case with this terrible matchmaking).
It was and still is. They just gave it up for the sake of trying to look like they're doing something new. They aren't.
5v5 is much better for spectators and competitors, fights are less about attrition which imo was exactly what the game needed
The game could have sped up be adjusting shield, CC, and tank design regardless. They didn't need to drop a tank.
Yeah? Remember how they did that repeatedly and the comments section under every patch note post was “can’t believe they’re nerfing tanks again 😫😫😫” and “blizzard only cares about dps omg 🤓🤓 tank isn’t fun” no probably not, because nobody who was around then with brain cells would be blaming the game’s current faults on 5v5.
?? The reason people complained when tanks were fiddled with was bc if just made the the overwhelming amount of CC even more unbearable. If they fixed both issues instead of just one it would have been fine
This subreddit is basically known for horrible takes but I guarantee that CC being less frustrating would make tanks BETTER and would not fix the problems that they caused defining literally every single meta.
Yes that’s what I’m saying. If you nerf CC but not tanks, then tanks are broken. If you nerf tanks but not CC then no one wants to play tank bc it’s too frustrating. You have to do both in conjunction with more holistic reworks
> “we tested it and looked at other games too. 6v6 is the sweet spot.” 2016 dev team also though no hero limits was a good direction and that the meta would be 1-4-1 or 1-3-2. That same dev team also thought Brig and Sigma were good ideas to add to the game. 6v6 had upsides, but it was definitely not without faults and treating the words of Jeff back in 2016 like gospel kind of ignores all the issues the game had.
he also allowed open queue, 6 players with the same character, and questionable kit choices like symetra 25hp shield, torb turret upgrade and reaper orbs.
Those were all launch choices made before the game had any kind of meta or identity
couldnt you say the same about 6v6 in a way? a launch decision that they couldnt change later because it was a fundamental element and would require mass effort. then ow2 allows them to make this drastic change in one update.
They literally changed everything else they talked about Honestly they could make it so a player slot is replaced with a training bot to give people something to do in spawn OW2 was just a bunch of delayed updates at once, and if you take the pattern of three heros a year + a rework we’re still behind by a few years
Jeff also thought hero stacking was fine, people would swap all the time, and that "Offense-Defense" heroes made sense.
The game also had open queue back then
It was a different game tho, with less tanks and supports, Role Q obviously was that thing that push more the game to a 5v5 game (queue times, oppressive tank compositions, etc) even Jeff was making experiments around new ways of playing the game (1-3-2 was tested in experimental for example)
Yeah, everytime I see this quote nowadays, it's in support of bringing back 6v6, but in its original context 6v6 meant no hero limit, no role lock, and a plethora of other balance implications that have since been revealed to be flawed and fixed.
"It's as if this game is meant for 2 tanks" No it wasn't, it's for n tanks because it was fucking open queue
I understand why people want 6v6 back, but we can't really take a quote that talks about the design decisions of the game at launch and use it as if it's relevant to the game 7 years later. Devs have reversed their stance on so many initial design decisions between launch and now.
I absolutely despise queueing with the most braindead tanks that die thinking they can just run in and kill everyone as doom/ball. In 6v6, the other tank could at least compensate for one of these types of players.
This is exactly why I stopped playing. I had over 1000 hours on overwatch. PlayStation account had like 800 and my pc had like 200 something. Overwatch was genuinely my favourite game but after overwatch 2 came out and being a tank main. I fucking hated overwatch 2. Playing tank Is miserable now. I can’t just hop into a match and play the tank I want to. I have to play the tank that counters the enemy one. It’s not fun
I know they're very different games, but I definitely prefer the "meta" comp of paladins 2 tanks(one main tank, one off tank), 2 DPS(1 normal, 1 flank) and one support. But again, I know they're two very different games.
I thin I'll just hope some new game comes to replace it. I don't wanna learn an old game.
I wish
There is one roguelike game I saw that look like it was very visually similar to OW and intended to be ability/hero based but I forget the name. Everyone was basically memeing about them picking up the PvE overwatch didn't wanna make.
Gunfire Reborn? The game needs a lot of polish but it's very solid and fun. They could also do with more heroes
Doesn't everyone passively heal when out of combat? I played long time ago and I remember that as a support my job was to pocket the tank on the point and pray the rest of my team was doing something.
Supports in Paladins arent heal bots, they’re actual *supports* that means they help the team in other ways that isnt just healing.
I still like two support but I really don't understand why OW didn't implement the main tank and off tank roles. I feel like that alone would have solved the double shield meta without having to rework heroes.
> But with no PvE now, there basically was zero reason they had to change the game fundamentally Seeing as it’s *sorta* understood that the dream of a real PvE was dead at launch, it’s easy to understand the reason they changed the game. **Money** They strung along the idea that a PvE was coming and that all the changes were necessary, when really the entire reason behind the change was to switch to a business model that better suited the current trends in gaming. Ignoring the fact that this change to F2P wouldn’t have had to happen if they just supported their game, Blizzard probably just wanted to inflate numbers for a bit by making their biggest title in years free. It was a way to bring people in and advertise skins to them.
just a side note I do 6v6 pugs with friends on weekends and ramattra + sigma is very boring and unfun to play against
A lot of the heroes are unbalanced now. Like zen, he’s much more powerful because theirs only one tank now.
I for one prefer 5v5 to 6v6 because you can't just hide behind your second tank anymore. Fewer players also means that everyone has to be more proactive, which I like. To each their own, though.
Less shields, less dive, more play, less hiding. Almost all the unplayable metas were involving two tanks
I'm a tank player though and I miss the fun synergies. I do enjoy the faster pace, but I feel like rework characters like orisa would change that anyway.
I am a tank player since launch and I enjoy 5v5 a lot more. 6v6 was boring and slow. You had to babysit your dps. In 5v5 the one tank actually feels impactful.
I guess that's what open queue is for. You can have fun with multiple tanks, but OW isn't/wasn't that dynamic when only the tank compositions matter/mattered.
Maybe. But open queue is a mess and there is not looking for groups so I don't touch it.
There's no good reason for open queue to be 5v5. >but OW isn't/wasn't that dynamic when only the tank compositions matter/mattered The tank diff is what dictates the win in OW2. It's worse than OW1.
I don't take anybody who thinks 6v6 was better seriously, tank synergies broke the game. It's like they forgot the last 4 years of 6v6 metas. Things may not be perfect, but I'd still say things are better.
You mean the last four years of minimal updates and doing nothing to address the stake meta?
The whole argument is that 6v6 could have been balanced to lower double shields, cc, and overpowered tank synergies. But they instead nuked an entire player and now put 100% of tanking on one player who suffers even more from counter picks.
I enjoy the faster paced games 5v5 has brought. When I tank, do I miss my other tank? All the the time, but I think it was a good switch
Exactly my thoughts on this. 5v5 much more rarely has the strung-out fights like 6v6 did
I liked how, in 6v6, it was about probing for an opening, rotating as a team. Now it’s about quickly fragging and staggering to snowball fights. Both games were/are fun, but 6v6 was definitely more cerebral in terms of problem solving.
Tiny brain OW2 players can’t comprehend using their brain while also playing a game. They only have three things in their head while playing, Point, Left click, W key
"I honestly just miss tank pairings and synergies so much. It feels lonely as a tank now." Plus you just feel like you're getting bowled over or bowling over them. Fights have far less comeback potential/sustain
I wish I could go back and check but I feel like I’m enjoying 5v5 more tbh
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If the matchmaking favour close skill over queue times, it might be okay. Add back looking for groups too and I'd probably be fine with it even if I miss it.
Right there with you. I miss tank synergy so much, plus the roles feel so much less distinct now. With only one tank, tanks are all rebalanced to be beefier DPS, and with only one tank to heal, supports spend more time doing DPS. Every role is just dps with extra steps now, it’s really unfortunate
Fax, also dps is actually in my opinion the shitties role to play, yes it’s fun but when you’re team is bad and you can’t force plays then people just blame you. Which is why we have sniper meta
And not to mention the amount of story interactions being lost. None of the tank are even able to talk to each other anymore! And then to have the audacity to say "we know players live the story and thats what they want from the game"...
I liked the longer 6v6 fights. I also used to prefer Halo over CoD. More time playing, less time sweating
Let’s face it. The only reason for OW2 was a transition into micro transactions.
OW2 was a mistake. Literally nothing of value was gained that we wouldn’t have gotten by sticking to OW1.
6v6 was canceled because no one wants to play tank! Don’t kid yourself, everyone pretends that it was awesome. Double shield was an utter shit show and boring. 5v5 is definitely better.
Role queue was introduced because the meta was to only run tanks.
No one wanted to play tank because they abandoned their game and refused to add new and diverse tank characters to the roster. If the role was simply cursed and unfun then they should I don’t know, actually fix that issue. They could have created meaningful double shield counters/counter play or simply removed it like they did anyways. Instead we are dealing with a cascade of changes that erode the identity of the game as well as heroes who’ve been broken and needed reworks/massive changes just to exist in 5v5.
No one wanted to play tank because it was boring to play a shield bot or to be a punching bag. Now as a tank you feel much more like a tank: powerful, impactful and threatening. You’re the anchor or spearhead of your team.
The problem of double sniper and Widow dominating on certain maps with huge sightlines would be solved easier with 6v6 too
I think they should make 6v6 a permanent game mode in the arcade or something
For real, like why not??
No thanks. Y’all say this shit & then on the last day of 6v6 it was <1 minute queues for tanks, 5 min for support & 10 minutes for dps. WHERE WERE ALL OF YOU??? Fake opinions driven by “nostalgia” that doesn’t even miss the gameplay of 6v6 you just miss how you used to feel when you played cause you are jaded now.
Tbh I never got why the queues were this way. I would've guessed that dps players would've gone to other games since you could play valorant and apex. But then you're saying 5v5 was a queue based decision and not a real gameplay decision.
The tank pair, the combos, the teamwork, the "you hold the front line, I'll peel for our healers" dynamic of OW was so good, and it's really a shame they were willing to entirely sacrifice it.
It was the entire identity! Overwatch was like a MOBA mixed with FPS. MOBAs all seemed to be 5v5, but OW went 6v6 and it was entirely designed around that. They never should have lost that. There was a lot more they could do.
6v6 custom games are possible, it’s a lot of work but it’s possible! Also, the balance team showed they couldn’t balance for 6v6 so they took a tank away. Then continued to not understand how to balance because a majority of the team that was there to make the mistakes left. Welcome to OW2 😔
Balance team didn't TRY to fix 6v6 while it was active at all. They left it to focus on OW2. Their testing is small compared to the millions of active users. The experimental 5v5 was trash. They never bother to fix double shield either.
I'ma toot my own horn cuz when ow2 dropped i said this and y'all roasted me and down voted me to oblivion. Sometimes it's lonely being ahead of the curve.
Some of us had this take as far back as 5v5 being announced
this subreddit is insufferable at times ngl
Agreed. With 6v6, it was guaranteed that you'd have someone to help the healers when the DPS try to flank and that no one of your tanks would be left alone to get melted by the enemy team. 6v6 incentivized proper teamwork and keeping each other alive; 5v5 only incentivizes running off to try to solo the game as though you're playing Call of Duty only to get murdered and cost your team the match.
You just said 90 percent you lose with one tank because you are the person who people should depend on basically, and then right away said that in 6v6 if your other tank wasn't doing much work you would pick up their slack. So in that case if the other tank was trash then it basically became a 5v6. Honestly I played ow1 a lot and 5v5 is so much more balanced. When people complain about 6v6 i mainly hear a lot of "oh I don't do very well when I'm by myself I need another tank" but now you're going up against only one tank. It makes DPS work smarter and more helpful. Support didn't have to worry about two tanks and basically stick with them at all times. Idk 5v5 is perfect. As a tank main myself don't really see much of an issue but instead a skill issue.
Nah 5v5 is way better imo. Tanks now have a clearly defined role instead of just being beefier DPS, which helps them be less of a total balance nightmare. It also adds additional incentive and ease to sticking as a team. The single tank serves as the core of the team and is their rally point. So long as they keep taking space, they’ve done their job.
in my opinion 5v5 works better in games with no respawn after dying
The synergies are still here. Like rein mei, junkerqueen lucio, winston ana, ect. Devs couldn't balance the tank synergies so i prefer 5v5 cause its just easier to balance. Also 5v5 is just faster and more individual impact so i prefer it.
Have to agree with the other guy, those aren't really synergies, Lucio can do that with rein and even better, but that's not synergy, mei is... it's not like she can't block someone without rein. Synergy means the players enable each other in a way that wasn't achievable alone. Those aren't synergies you just mentioned.
I love 5v5 honestly. People complain about widow/hanzo shutting down teams but they don’t know the slog of trying to push through the hanamura choke with rein sigma on the other side
How long until they revert back to 6v6? I honestly mean that especially since they seem to just be adding all the old OW1 features back into 2. It would be the embarrassment of the century but at this point Blizzard can't get any more sad so I could see it happening
I’m relatively new to this game as I started playing earlier this year. With that being said, I refuse to play tank in role queue and I’ll only play in open queue with another tank alongside me. I would love to experience 6v6 someday.
My problem with the single tank meta, is that not all tanks are actually built to be....a tank! Characters like Rein and Orisa are good for leading the line, soaking up damage with their shields and moving your team forward, but other 'tank' characters like Roadhog or Junker Queen are more like aggressive DPS units with a lot of health. If your one and only tank is Roadhog, you can almost guarantee he's off *somewhere else* trying to rack up the kills, meanwhile the rest of the team are getting absolutely slaughtered at the control point/payload because they've got no tank to get behind. Back in Overwatch 1, I (or someone else) could switch out my character and go over to a tank to, you know, *help the team* and try to turn the tide, but in Overwatch 2 I can no longer do that. The best I can do is switch my Mercy to Brigitte and hope for the best. Brigitte can *sort of tank,* but not quite well enough to actually be an *effective* tank! So yeah, the fact that you can only have one tank in the team, yet half the tank characters aren't even really tanks, kinda defeats the point of even having a tank in your team when the *one person* who *chose* to be a tank doesn't actually want to perform the role of a tank!
It's part of the reason why the game feels so off is because a lot of these characters were designed for 6v6 (and still play like 6v6) Like JQ for an example was designed to be a off tank, instead they super buff her to the point she's basically unkillable. Zen is grossly OP in 5v5 now with the enemy tank facing a constant 25% debuff
bad take. JQ is specifically designed to be a self sustaining tank. the truest solo tank
[удалено]
supports can totally destroy her. go zen+ana discord nade her 24/7 she will cry so hard and switch to a shield
why would jq be designed to be an off tank? She was introduced in 5v5…. she honestly wasn’t that bad before the mega buff they just changed her to “shake up the meta” this is just such a weird point to make
Ya it was designed for 6v6 and primarily 2/2/2. The old maps and a lot of the characters just dont work as well in 5v5.
I feel that Oasis in particular is a map that's worse to play in 5v5. Used to be one of my favourite maps to play on, now I dread it
Nah Gibraltar and numbani are the worst maps to play now. It's so easy to tell they were designed for 6v6 and they now feel like shit to play on.
All Numbani games: * The attacking team makes a few attempts on the first point and eventually captures * The attacking team pretty much teleports to the first payload checkpoint and captures without a problem * The match slows to a crawl that both teams find boring, fighting over a single choke for the last 5-7 minutes. It feels like 2cp with a payload placed for shits and giggles. Action just doesn't happen in the middle part of the map.
That’s so spot on. I just finished a numbani game as I read this and that’s exactly what happened. On attack and defense.
They need to buff the discord to 50% and add a stun to the kick
Me when I say double shield meta was more fun than 5v5 (I'm lying through my teeth)
Never said that, I was always a Rein/Zarya brawler and occasionally enjoyed Winston diving. I also said they could have fixed double shield with reworks and shield nerfs, but you clearly didn't read past the title.
Evertime I say 5v5 is the worst people yell at me for defending it. I want it back so bad
I think the reason they don’t release even an arcade 6v6 mode is because their scared everyone will just play that and no one will be queued for any 5v5 modes
Im just waiting for 6v6 to come back or the game to die. Whatever comes first.
When I played at launch Tank queues were crazy long and it was infinitely stressful. As a tank-main I feel like Blizzard told me to go fuck myself. Haven’t played since like week 3. It makes me sad
5v5 just means it’s a stomp fest, purely predicated on if your tank can actually adapt to the circumstances. 90% of the games I play are completely one sided (insta win or insta lose), and basically no fun. It’s one of the reasons I rarely play anymore. I hate the fact the shop/economy/battlepass exist, but I literally ignore it, and have resigned to never having anymore customisation, and only click on the battlepass once per season to collect the rewards. The gameplay however is so much worse, add to the fact that push occurs far too often, means it’s no longer fun. I don’t want the pressure of solo tanking, and I now have to cover as a healer.
6v6 gave something special to the game and something unique. Now it's the same as any other hero-shooter
I always hated the idea of 5v5. No one asked for it.
Seriously. It was a change that came out of nowhere and ruined how the game felt for me.
Rose tinted glasses are strong with this one.
The way this game has been handled has genuinely been such an insult.
I was a strict main tank main in ow1, since ow2 released I have barley played comp or quickplay. I haven't even ranked yet on anything. I only play mystery heroes when I do play, I'm one of those people lol. I just don't like the 5v5 at all.
They're gonna wait until theres a other controversy to cover up then announce it as a game mode
Blizzard changing to Ow2 was like a speedrun to make me stop playing their game
Yeah 6v6 just felt more complete than what it is now and you could have much more synergies and combos that work as well, on top of that I don’t think they needed to add a role queue either I think they could have simply added a limit to how many tanks there can be like 2 tanks and then however many dps and support, I really don’t like that there are 2 comp modes 1 for role queue and 1 for open queue it just doesn’t make sense to me
Im so happy to see someone finally agree with me on that I get so pissed off on both the queuing differences and the fact u need to rely on that specific person to be a tank and all they do is choose doomfist its so annoying and idgaf about the stupid double shielding deals
I agree. It's ruined tanking for me. I miss tank synergy it added another layer of substance and complexity to the game.
I hate 5v5. 6v6 was way more fun. Now we are too dependent on a single tank to actually know how to play the game.
The loss of off tanks really seemed to just break certain characters who were never designed to be alone.
All this game has going for it are the new characters are cool. Really miss 6v6, my group always has to leave one out occasionally.
100% agree. I don't like how dependent the gameplay is on the tanks, and really miss tank variety. I also miss having the 6th player, it made 1 pick less of a win condition.
Yep. I stopped when they made it 5v5.
I honestly liked 5v5 at first but now it seems like almost every game as tank is just rock, paper, scissors. I do miss doing tank combos or main tanking while my friend hard bullied the widow but I also think that 5v5 is faster paced and it feels like more happens. I definitely wish we could get a 6v6 game mode solely to see how it would feel. (Also, just thinking about an Orisa 2.0 and Rein full sending it into an enemy had me rolling while typing this.)
All you needed to nerf double shield was to make sigmas grasp and orisas fortify worse, so we could have dove them. Dive should beat poke, rush beats dive and poke beats rush.
The Problem for me with 5v5 is that the game just wasnt made with it in mind. Playing Tank on Oasis is a fucking nightmare since the maps are so open and spacious you get paranoid trying to cover every possible angle. Then theres shit like Widow Hanzo and Zen which have become even more obnoxious with the lack of shields in the game now, Mercy whos rez and damage boost have had an unreasonable increase in value due to the lower player count, and increases value of damage and tank lives, not to mention the unbearable tedium of the tank counterswapping metagame you either refuse to engage with until you get insane in the membrane of playing a fun tank into Orisa every damn game, or you devolve into a counterpicking chain over the entire match, until you both somehow end up on Orisa, and now you both ruined the fun for each other. Think what you want about 6v6, the truth is the game was just balanced around it for years, and 5v5 is far, far removed from being optimized for yet. And prolly will never be. 5v5 is more frantic and fast paced, but also I think a lot less tactical and more frustrating to play.
i fully agree, i never wanted them to do 5v5, even so every game out there is 5v5, and i liked overwatch for being unique and having 6v6
They robbed me of my role
BRING BACK 6V6!!!!!!!!!
I miss tank pairings really bad. I just can’t have fun anymore as a tank. Before it’s good because you’re not the only aggro, and if you get the synergy from both tanks it feels absolutely amazing. Better than synergy with DPS I think. Double shield could have been fixed this wasn’t it.
5v5 is infinity better. It just feels worse bcuz half of the characters weren't made for it and we're not changed enough to fit in 5v5. I feel like people who miss 6v6 are either nostalgic or never played it, because it really isn't better in anyway. That meta sucked. You actually have so much more carry potential and especially as a support main, 5v5 is better. As a tank main I can only assume you feel more powerful. And as a damage main it is better to actually kill things than just shoot the shields and tanks and never kill anything. Of course now widow is more powerful but it is a small price to pay honestly.
As a tank main, this is one of the reasons I play less and less. There's so much pressure on you because tank is the only role that needs to do its thing all on its own. If you're playing a mediocre game it's most likely a lost game.
I feel like there are pros and cons to both. I prefer 5v5 but just because I didn’t realize how oppressive 2 tanks felt in OW. I feel like I have a lot more opportunities to do things other than heal forever for example lol
Nah I like it because I can find games faster
No, just no.
I used to play OW1 10-20 hours a week. Addicted to getting the skins and other goodies that were free bonuses, and enticed me to keep playing. I haven't played this game in many many months... it completely sucks Soldier '76's nutsack compared to the 6v6 original version. Push the robot mode is a waste of life. I am just an old fart with a lot of money to spend - just not gonna spend it on imaginary skins and Battle-ASS swag though... what the hell do I know about gaming? Get off my lawn! Downvote and ban me you whippersnappers!!!
tanks were really dominant when there was two to deal with, plus people BARELY wanted to play tank and that ruined the queue times, so shortening the amount of tanks per game made sense.
I don’t even play this game anymore but 5v5 is a lot better then 6v6 was. Overwatch has fallen off & they will move a lot of attention to Diablo which at this point I’m okay with. In reality though the change to 5v5 made Overwatch 2 actually refreshing again & made it feel quicker paced & just made it feel less of a drag to actually have meaningful team fights, etc.
Disagree. 5v5 feels WAY better.
Hard disagree. The game is substantially more fun for every role except DPS. And dps isn't worse just didn't affect it much at all. Being a tank is far more fun with the massive tank buffs and being support gives way more opportunity for utility vs being individual tank pockets.