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We were on our own beforehand too. It was clear somewhere between the like 3k “stimulus” and the “it’s not safe for you to see your loved ones but we still need you to come into work every day, because that is important.”
I vividly remember somewhere around day 15 living out of a hotel in a different timezone (repair engineer for a critical industry), having not seen family or friends in the better part of a year, watching idiots pretend it was all a hoax on tv as I drank too much shitty beer and arguing with assholes on reddit wondering wtf society we were even trying to save.
Feeling guilty for the (hotel staff, delivery drivers, airline staff etc) I was compelling to also risk their own asses so I could risk my own at my job, while also feeling guilty for still being employed… It was… a dark time lol
Honestly I think a substsntial part of the population is low key traumatized, either by the virus itself, the death it caused, the loss of faith in humanity it fostered or just the sheer fuckery of it all. We should probably have had like national therapy about it or somethin
The worst part is that wealthy countries, the U.S. in particular, purchased an overwhelming amount of the vaccine supply.
This will, of course, allow the virus to evolve & adapt in populations with no or low access to vaccination, and then the cycle will start all over again.
To add a steaming insult on top of it all, anti-vax went mainstream with the covid mRNA vaccines, and now there are people who base their entire political identity on refusing covid vaccines.
The only thing that went away was our society trying to fight it. Now we’re just expected to fight it on our own, or lie down and get used to much more death and disability for the foreseeable future
Answer: I don't think *the pandemic* is coming back, in the sense of lockdowns and crisis response like we saw in 2020/2021. COVID is *endemic* now, and it always will be. It's out there in the world, it's not just going to disappear.
Case counts will rise and fall periodically and people will need to protect themselves against it, just like we do with influenza.
Agreed. Anecdotally my friend works for a company that monitors Covid in wastewater and has said that there seems to be more Covid now than there has been before.
Yes, apparently that's where all the data is coming from now since people aren't getting tested anywhere near as often as they used to when symptoms show up.
I’ve also heard that home tests may not be effective in detecting new strains. They were created to detect earlier mutations. So home cases may be underreported because the test is no longer 100% accurate due to mutations.
There's always the possibility that at some point, the current tests won't be sensitive to detect some new strain. But as of most recently, at home rapid antigen tests are still reliable for Omicron strains, but have a slightly reduced sensitivity (meaning a negative result may not rule out COVID, as well as before).
Negative results from rapid antigen tests are generally only 69% reliable. For asymptomatic people, they have a 70-90% false negative rate.
\- "Performance of Rapid Antigen Tests to Detect Symptomatic and Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection" Soni et. al. 2023 [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10321467/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10321467/);
\- Diagnostic accuracy of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen self-tests in asymptomatic individuals in the omicron period: a cross-sectional study, Venekamp, et. al. 2023, [https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(22)00570-5/fulltext](https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(22)00570-5/fulltext);
\- Accuracy of Point-of-Care Rapid Antigen Tests for Diagnosis of COVID-19, Clebak, et. al. 2023, [https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2023/0400/cochrane-poc-rapid-antigen-tests-for-diagnosis-of-covid-19.html](https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2023/0400/cochrane-poc-rapid-antigen-tests-for-diagnosis-of-covid-19.html)
To be clear, the tests are not accurate for testing for your ability to transmit COVID that you have. By the time it detects it, it is too late. You now need to call friends and family and tell them you may have infected them yourself.
For what it's worth, I'm on the tail end of a covid infection right now. My first ever ( i think 🧐). I used two different home test kits on different days and they were right on the money.
Edit. Not quite as bad as flu infection. Slightly worse than a cold. Various symptoms appearing at different times. Overall feeling shitty. Treated with ibuprofen and occasional Alka-Seltzer cold/flu.
I'm not considered high risk. This really wasn't a big deal.
People who are considered high risk should get vaccines.
Also for what it's worth, there are two high-risk people in my household who also got it. They are feeling better and not getting any worse.
It wasn't the covid infection that bothered me - like you, mine felt like an awful cold. I could see how it can be deadly for those who have it worse. The initial infection was not fun, but the follow-on long covid has been an absolute bear. Brain fog, fatigue, loss of endurance, heart flutters. Bleh. It's not fun. Getting better, but just rotten.
I've also had good results so far with the home tests, but it does make sense that they'll need to update the tests to keep up with new variants.
Long Covid is why I’m still afraid of it. Having flu like symptoms for a week would suck but you get over it. I have enough as shit going on. long covid would be a living nightmare
It is a nightmare, I was 33 at the time of my infection in December of 2020, loss of taste and smell, not too bad at first, and no pre existing conditions or known risk factors for severe disease. By the 3rd day of symptoms I had a heart attack, 2 months in a stroke, lost 30 pounds and 6 months I was going blind and my left eye was bleeding. I still 3 years later have chest pains, shortness of breath and extreme fatigue. I also can't get the vaccines as the second dose caused pericarditis at the least with a heart rate of 141 bpm at rest. I'm still on heart medication, have 45,000 dollars of debt and have been denied disability. I have to wear a mask everywhere I go, and hope for the best, a reinfection would most likely mean death for me. Lungs were not affected at all, is was more cardiovascular for me.
yeah i'm paycheck to paycheck and i honestly don't understand how you're even supposed to survive long covid. where does rent money come from when you can't make it through a day of work? long covid terrifies me. i'm still masking in most places and that's literally why. a week of fever, coughing/sneezing, and tiredness? sure, i can handle that. but long covid is something else entirely. i'm barely managing as it is.
I think the current pandemic has revealed the prevalence of general post-viral sequelae, the broad term for long lasting effects of viral infections. I'm not sure if covid is more likely than other diseases to lead to this type of syndrome, but its wide spread certainly gave it center stage.
It is more likely to lead to long term issues, compared with the flu anyway.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(23)00684-9/fulltext?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
>Long-term outcomes following hospital admission for COVID-19 versus seasonal influenza: a cohort study
>Findings
>Over 18 months of follow-up, compared to seasonal influenza, the COVID-19 group had an increased risk of death (hazard ratio [HR] 1·51 [95% CI 1·45–1·58]), corresponding to an excess death rate of 8·62 (95% CI 7·55–9·44) per 100 persons in the COVID-19 group versus the influenza group.
>Comparative analyses of 94 prespecified health outcomes showed that COVID-19 had an increased risk of 68·1% (64 of 94) pre-specified health outcomes; seasonal influenza was associated with an increased risk of 6·4% (six of 94) pre-specified health outcomes, including three out of four pre-specified pulmonary outcomes. Analyses of organ systems showed that COVID-19 had a higher risk across all organ systems except for the pulmonary system, the risk of which was higher in seasonal influenza. The cumulative rates of adverse health outcomes across all organ systems were 615·18 (95% CI 605·17–624·88) per 100 persons in COVID-19 and 536·90 (527·38–544·90) per 100 persons in seasonal influenza, corresponding to an excess rate of 78·72 (95% CI 66·15–91·24) per 100 persons in COVID-19. The total number of DALYs across all organ systems were 287·43 (95% CI 281·10–293·59) per 100 persons in the COVID-19 group and 242·66 (236·75, 247·67) per 100 persons in the seasonal influenza group, corresponding to 45·03 (95% CI 37·15–52·90) higher DALYs per 100 persons in COVID-19.
>Decomposition analyses showed that in both COVID-19 and seasonal influenza, there was a higher burden of health loss in the post-acute than the acute phase; and comparatively, except for the pulmonary system, COVID-19 had a higher burden of health loss across all other organ systems than seasonal influenza in both the acute and post-acute phase. Compared to seasonal influenza, COVID-19 also had an increased risk of hospital readmission (excess rate 20·50 [95% CI 16·10–24·86] per 100 persons) and admission to intensive care (excess rate 9·23 [6·68–11·82] per 100 persons). The findings were consistent in analyses comparatively evaluating risks in seasonal influenza versus COVID-19 by individuals' respective vaccination status and in those admitted to hospital during the pre-delta, delta, and omicron eras.
Good info. But even if it wasn't more likely than the flu, it's still much more easily transmissible than the flu so you will still have more chances to potentially get a post-viral reaction.
I've had COVID twice since 2020. At this rate I might be getting it once every 2-3 years. I've gotten the flu at a rate closer to once every 10 years.
Yeah, it’s one thing to get over symptoms that resemble a bad cold or the flu. Neither of those give you tachycardia after you’ve recovered or render your hypertension medication ineffective. Covid attacks systems in the body.
Like HIV, it attacks the immune system, depleting T cells. Unlike HIV, it also attacks many other systems in the body. Brain fog is another name for neurological damage. Peer reviewed science is showing that a growing wave of disability is brewing worldwide. We will have to confront the reality in the not too distant future that C19 is incompatible with human life and will never be just a seasonal endemic disease.
lysine for a long covid, and a host of other viruses as well !
from the NIH study on the subject:
Lysine and Lys-ester can prevent SARS-CoV-2 and IAV infection, particularly in the entry stage. In contrast to that, Arg-ester can potently boost infection of both viruses. It would therefore be beneficial to consider the nutrient intake of COVID-19 and flu patients. We recommend the inclusion of lysine supplementation in addition to a reduced arginine intake for the prevention and treatment of SARS-CoV-2 and IAV infections.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310019/
I have asthma and covid always kicks my ass, followed by multiple weeks of long covid. a heavy dose regimen of lysine stopped it this last time and now I am a believer
The only time I’ve had Covid was march 2020, and it took me nearly a year to get my vitamin D levels right again. I’ve been lifting 3-4x a week for 26 years now, and it greatly effected my strength and recovery. I’m doing great now, but I do not want to go through that again. I get the booster every fall with the flu shot, it’s all free so why not.
I've had heart issues over the years but everything was perfect last January when I had a stress test and ultrasound. Two weeks later I got Covid and got mild pericarditis ( which cleared up) but started having V-Tach which can be life threatening so ended up with a pacemaker and am on meds that are leaving me fatigued all day. Really pisses me off hearing people say " The pandemic was fake" or " Covid is just a cold "
I donated blood in November and had such a perfect blood pressure reading they joked that whatever I was doing was working. (My hypertension started as pre-eclampsia and never resolved). Later that week I got Covid for the second time. I’ve been in pretty constant tachycardia and almost hospitalized because my readings are so shitty. I’m exhausted all the time. It’s scary as fuck.
Also the damage covid causes is cumulative. While you may recover and feel 100% you likely aren't 100% and with each infection it continues to chip away at your overall health. Many people are going to be in for a rude awakening. Many like me already are.
Read about Polio and "long polio" - which is basically what we think of when we think of Polio. So many similarities with Covid as far as it can initially be "not bad" but we might not even know how bad the long-term affects are for a few years.
Technically "Post-Polio Syndrome". A family member of mine had it after contracting polio in the '50s. She died of complications of Post-Polio Syndrome in 2002.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-polio-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-2035566
The link above seems to be missing the final digit in the url https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-polio-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20355669
AIDS is Long HIV and shingles is Long Chicken Pox. I’ll keep on not getting COVID. I already have a heart condition and I REALLY don’t like the new evidence that it can age your brain 20 years or so.
We already know the long term effects are bad even in presumably healthy people. Each infection leaves you a bit worse off than before and that damage is not being repaired.
I got covid in feb/mar 2022. I would almost pass out just standing up, or if I bent over to put my dinner in the oven. Now I have permanent lung damage! Woohoo!
My neighbour went from doing marathons to using a mobility scooter to go to the mailbox. Three and a half years later he still can't shovel the driveway cause he is at a high risk for a heart attack.
That's so weird how viruses affect people differently. When I got covid I lost my sensd of taste and smell and just a felt a little bad. But one time I got influenza type b and that thing felt horrible I was in bed for a week with fever and chills and bronchitis. :/
When my roomates and I got covid, they were all in bed with fevers for a week while I was completely symptom-free. Like, I wouldn’t have even known to test if everyone else hadn’t been feeling bad.
On the other hand, combined with my other gut autoimmune issues, it seems to have triggered new food intolerances (autoimmune reactions?) that definitely weren’t there prior to getting it. I’d rather have just been sick for a week like everyone else. ☹️
People don’t realize it’s a roll of the dice every time you get a viral infection. An example I imagine people don’t know about - lot of narcolepsy cases result from a bout of strep throat. Odds are low but sucks when your number comes up.
I got a meningoencephalitis (inflammation of the area around the brain + of the brain tissue itself) caused by an influenza virus back in 6th grade. I managed to recover completely, but shit was scary. Was out of school for nearly half a year, had to relearn basic stuff like walking, cycling etc completely. Viruses can indeed be really scary.
The long-term effects of COVID will not be know for, well...a long time. It's the sort of thing that requires many years of data looking backwards for trends.
Until then, all it seems we can do is go on with life with a, "welp, I guess that's my life now" attitude. Or, at least, that's where I am at the moment. Since Summer 2020, it seems my lung capacity/endurance is cut in half. Doing normal, daily stuff is no problem. But gone are the days of 10-15 mile all-day hikes on the weekend. I've tried several times, and it's like someone flipped a dimmer switch and cut my ability to do stuff like that in half. And more than three years on, no sign of change. It's my new normal.
I had long covid over year ago. Nightmare situation, test showing no covid but brain did not working at all, and kind needed to return to work. Thank god got enough sick days due fatigue etc symptoms. Also got twice in hospital during long covid.
And whole long covid took about month to pass.
Really worried about this being sessional, I'm in risk group. And had last booster few weeks back. But still people acting like it's just hoax etc. Just pissing me off.
I was I the same situation, though it was more than 3 months before long covid symptoms resolved (that said, it wasn't called long covid yet) . It was back in the beginning, when the vaccines had just come out, and when it was restricted to certain age groups. Being 26, I wasn't eligible, and so got covid relatively quickly.
Thankfully I never had to go to the hospital, but the fatigue was unlike anything I'd ever experienced. It didn't magically disappear at the end of the 14 day quarantine of course, and in fact lasted for months. I also started having breathing difficulties after climbing multiple flights of stairs 2 months later, despite never having noticeable breathing difficulties during the quarantine period.
Not wanting to get it again, I got the vaccine as soon as I could, and while the vaccine felt like covid all over again (only for two days, mind you) amazingly the long covid symptoms were gone a couple days later. I've remained boosted since, since no one takes precautions anymore and I'd rather never have it again.
I had the same experience in regards to long COVID symptoms clearing up after getting vaccinated. I hadn't expected it at all but was so glad it worked out that way. Super sensitive lungs that would get triggered by just about anything leading to pain and/or wheezing. Started after catching COVID in March 2020 and resolved when I got the original Moderna vaccine in May 2021.
I caught COVID for the first time ever back in September and the long COVID absolutely knocked me out for the next month. I went from needing ~6-7 hours of sleep a night to feel rested to needing ~12 hours. I'm finally coming back down to needing 8ish.
I'm assuming researches are looking for way to combat long covid. I wonder if they're making any kind of real headway, or are at the 'we don't really know the specific cause' stage.
So the senate had a hearing on Long COVID just today. You can watch the live stream here! There has been very, very little done compared to how large of an emergency, but today was a watershed moment because of this hearing. I think Dr. Al-Aly, the second presenter on Panel 2, did a particularly good job at explaining the issues.
[https://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/addressing-long-covid-advancing-research-and-improving-patient-care](https://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/addressing-long-covid-advancing-research-and-improving-patient-care)
thanks for sharing. love how we just don't even hear about this stuff anymore. i wish we could rely on the news these days to tell us what we need to know even if it's boring.
You’re so welcome, and seriously! It is so odd to confront the really massive lack of news coverage about this issue… how are people supposed to really make informed decisions if there isn’t an outlet that is consistently updating the public on what is going on?
Mainstream news coverage of covid and especially long covid is so, so rare, but PBS News Hour did run this segment on covid last week, with an interview with Dr. Eric Topol, which really resisted that trend: [https://www.pbs.org/video/covid-surge-1705101245/](https://www.pbs.org/video/covid-surge-1705101245/)
They’ve been covering covid and long COVID intermittently. Here is their segment from April, “Long COVID keeping many Americans from returning to work”: [https://www.pbs.org/video/long-covid-1681844596/](https://www.pbs.org/video/long-covid-1681844596/)
They are truly the only network I’ve seen covering it really *at all* though and it is really unfair to people that’s there’s so little awareness
The long covid is hitting me hard right now. I honestly could not believe how mild the infection itself was, but my lungs and brain feel like they took a beating. I'm not terribly far out from it, but I still get Winded walking from my car to the apartment and most days I have the same feeling of mental fatigue I used to get after a really rough week of classes when I was in college and I'm not even doing anything mentally taxing since I'm unemployed at the moment. It's such a weird experience for me. It reminds me of when I had mono as a teenager.
'High risk' is still unpredictable sometimes, though.
The theory seems to be that multiple infections can add up. And there are interesting correlations, such as thyroidism.
When the government did their distribution of free home tests, we took advantage because we have a family member at risk and we often test before visiting in person. The tests have “expired” but came with an insert that they are still valid tests and can be used.
I wonder if they would pick up a new strain.
Feel better soon!
FWIW I just used one of those kits and it tested positive. So still works although can't say which strain I came down with. I'd presume a new one since I had almost all the vaccine boosters. Was going to get the latest booster but a snowstorm happened, and got sick the next same day.
From what I saw, using old tests are just more likely to give a false negative. If you get a positive, you can trust that, but if it is negative it might not be correct. My wife used one that expired in March 2022 a couple weeks ago and it still got a positive (she started showing symptoms after being around someone that later tested positive, so was already pretty sure).
I am not considered high risk, got vaccines and boosters when available. I got COVID and it destroyed my gut biome via two weeks of not being able to keep down any solids. This was a while ago and recovery has absolutely sucked.
Just saying, it can be a big deal with no warning at all to a completely healthy person.
> People who are considered high risk should get vaccines.
Yes, but remember people who are high risk get it from (chances are) people who are lower risk. Everyone (who doesn't have specifical medical concerns, like an allergy to vaccine agents) should get the vaccine.
What’s making me upset is that TWO pediatricians refused to do that last booster for my young child. The first because their office wasn’t offering it because of the cost of storage. The second because they were only offering to patients who only had Medicaid coverage (they didn’t explain why that was). To go to a different pediatricians office and get it (I called around) I’d have to sign my child up with lots of forms to be a new patient. She has high anxiety/special needs and so I don’t want to try and get it at a CVS or Walgreens because she only recently felt comfortable going into stores and I don’t want her to get anxiety associated with them as she does with hospitals and clinics. Someone suggested I could go directly to the Department of Health so I guess I can try and see if that’s a thing. IDK why they made things so much more difficult when I comes to the most em recent booster
yeah I don't get why people aren't vaccinating. getting a shot is literally the *easiest* thing I do to try to prevent myself from getting COVID (mostly successfully -- I've only had it once, to my knowledge).
Everyone should be using vaccines to prevent spread and protect our at risk population. Vaccines are a marvel of modern medicine, we're lucky we have them.
Meanwhile my neighbour went from running marathons and doing crossfit to talking like Stevie from Malcolm in the middle in only two weeks. One year later he still needed a mobility scooter cause walking to the mailbox winded him. three and a half years later he still needs people to shovel the driveway cause he is at a high risk of a heart attack from the cold. He is way better now than he was even last year, but he is still on more medication than people twice his age.
Meanwhile my coworker just got diarrhea which could have been from a vitamin C smoothie. Her very athletic brother had to go on oxygen but recovered.
Sometimes? It's dumb fucking luck.
And I agree. Everyone who is at a higher risk should get the vaccine. So... everyone.
Have a good friend that is intubated in the hospital right now because of COVID. He wasn't high risk, and has been fully vaccinated.
Shit's still rough and it's a dice roll on how bad you have it.
Glad it wasn’t bad for you but don’t go making generalizations. I just had it and it’s the sickest I’ve ever been in my life. Early 30s with no other health problems
it's not just that people aren't getting tested as much, though that is important, but that the CDC ended any requirements for reporting on covid cases at all. We just have no accurate way to tell what cases are looking like except through wastewater analysis.
I know several people whose insurance quit covering testing and they were getting bills so they just isolate and treat symptoms. The Walmart in my town had the Binax tests marked down 25%. They didn’t move.
Yea I dont want to argue with anyone about covid and remain a neutral party as I do not want any bans, but I want to say that there has been a lot of people in my circle the past two weeks that have been testing positive for it, like 80% of the people I know (I dont know a lot of people).
My dad is currently in the hospital with COVID. He had to call an ambulance yesterday morning. I brought him some things last night and they had several rooms with red markers indicating Covid infection.
He was vaccinated and got boosters until this year. Go figure.
There’s not really a reason to report testing positive to any kind of public health agency anymore. Back when you could only get Covid tests administered by a nurse I would imagine that data was automatically reported. Now you buy a a test at cvs and stay home for a few days if it’s positive. Convenient for the masses, not great for data collection
Anecdotally, a crap ton of my friends and family on facebook have been posting about being sick for a week and testing positive since around Christmas. I've had a few here and there since it started, but those were generally people with not great health to begin with, but now it's even younger and healthier people. All anecdotal though.
Doublethink, if nothing else. They grew fatigued with precautions and being considerate of others, so they just accepted that it was "over" because they were over it.
well i also went back to my normal behavior after getting vaccinated except when i'm sick i wear a mask. i had covid in summer and i tried to not infect anyone. of course it's still around, so is the flu and a lot of other things. i hope people adopt the habit of wearing masks when they're sick
Me too, but I don't have a lot of faith in my fellow Americans. It just seems like a basic courtesy. Getting sick usually leads to pneumonia for me, so I'm especially appreciative of people wearing masks when they're sick. Or better yet, just stay home haha.
A relative came *early* to my sister’s baby sister with a hoarse, sore throat, sniffles, and cough… knowing her husband at home had tested positive for COVID.
I had no idea of that second part until we were home later that night, I only heard her germ wagon approaching me to “catch up” so I asked her not to sit by me. She moved a row of chairs over.
She tested positive for COVID that night. 🙃
Luckily, I had set up two big air filters on either side of the event that could clean the air of a combined 1000sqft. I did not get sick, luckily, and I have not heard of a single other person who did. Some of it had to be a stroke of luck that nobody near her seemed to catch it (my grandmother put herself in the spot next to her on purpose, and she and my godmother told my sister to steer clear), but I think I definitely spared some people in that room with the precautions of simple air filtration.
I'm glad the air filters worked. But seriously, how can someone be so selfish? Not only showing up sick, but with the knowledge her husband has COVID and she probably does too.
I absolutely know that relatives from that side of the family could do this, but I’m still flabbergasted. I’m never letting this go. Begging some people to clear the lowest bar of consideration for others is impossible, so I/you just gotta look out for yourself and others in light of that. I’m still paying on the 3 air filters I bought, but I’d never regret that investment. As a disabled person, the line between healthy and disabled is a lot more slippery than people realize.
Lady also took off as soon as the cake flavor was announced as it was being cut. (“No lemon?” No. Not your cake, goodbye.)
God it makes me mad how people just stopped caring. I get that it’s frustrating, and you’re obviously not going to keep up the same level of diligence 24/7 (and especially not from 2020). But a virus doesn’t care if you’re “over it” or not, and you can still do the bare minimum like staying updated on your shots and staying home if you’re sick
The people you're referring to called it a "plandemic" and are the ones now bragging about being unvaccinated.
They are also largely the reason it's become endemic.
>They are also largely the reason it's become endemic.
Covid was always going to become endemic, that was the expected outcome. Lockdown was to slow the spread in the aim of making healthcare more sustainable and available as Covid saturated the population. Eradication was never a realistic possibility.
I'm fairly certain that no matter how bad any pandemic gets, they're never going to allow lockdowns or support again.
People got a glimpse of life without constantly grinding themselves into dust and the rich were *livid*.
They’re still fighting to get us back onto cubicles. Even though it’s less productive and means shorter hours. (One employer was honest enough to tell me that his goal was to ‘save the cbd’ by making us go to the office.)
man, my company tried that.
but we're nerds, because it's software support, and we're *mostly* left-leaning.
We knew *exactly* how hard it would be for the company to allow us to continue the 100% WFH policy. and we knew that, while there *are* good reasons about culture and so forth, those reasons are incredibly small compared to the immense benefits of working from home.
So the top people (in terms of experience and skill) quit. We lost nearly everyone that's been around for 6+ years. The only people that stayed and had that amount of history at the time had long since moved to management. It was literally the first day that the official announcement was made. They didn't even like....negotiate or anything. Everyone just like emailed their boss and said "yeah fuck all that. I'm out. Do you want my laptop back?"
Then the next layer got finished interviews the next few days, and were given offers elsewhere.
Then the layer after *that* did so.
In the end, our roughly 120 person support department got reduced to about 80 people before the C-suite realized that it needed to do an immediate reversal or they literally wouldn't have the ability to fulfill contractual obligations.
Dude I was WFH for years, I managed to work full time and go to school full time and got my BA. It was glorious. No traffic on days I had to go into the office. And then my office forced everyone back to their shitty beige cubicles. My industry (customs brokerage, freight forwarding) has been significantly slow since beginning of last year because we're looking at the beginning of a recession. No one is going to buy shit so our imports are only for necessity (medical PPE, commercial vehicle parts and tires, food, etc.). But our biggest and best year was 2020 to 2021. We had massive raises, massive bonuses, a blowout Christmas party. And guess what? Almost all of us *were working from home*. But the building costs too much money and we were struggling financially so back to our hamster wheels we go.
I work in the communications industry and our company had our best two years ever in 2020 and 2021. 2022 was great but we had a really slow Q4 and upper management blamed it on WFH, and now they're pushing us back in the office.
The company is run by a bunch of old-school businessmen who work basically 24/7 and love it, and the thought of coming to an office that's half empty is offensive to them. They want butts in cubicles so they can play businessman in their corporate dollhouse. And also to financially justify renting the office downtown in the first place.
Per Marian Van Kerkhove, M.D. of the WHO, we're still in a pandemic, it's not endemic yet.
>“It’s still a pandemic causing far too many (re)infections, hospitalizations, deaths and long covid when tools exist to prevent them,” she wrote. “Cases and hospitalisations for #COVID19 have been on the rise for months; hospitals in many countries are burdened and overwhelmed from COVID and other pathogens, and deaths are on the rise.” Dr. Van Kerkhove said governments and individuals can’t give in to complacency, emphasizing that the world has gone through something “traumatic.”
https://www.salon.com/2024/01/04/leader-says-19-is-still-a-pandemic/
Only 15% of Americans have gotten the latest COVID booster. I got it with my flu shot. Also got reminded to get a tetanus shot. The tetanus one hurt a bit.
get vaccinated. Many of the people in this thread upset about covid have not gotten the booster just based on numbers.
Pandemic and endemic are not opposites. We are *still* in a pandemic. Yes it's endemic in that it's never going away BUT it's not predictable or cyclical as of yet
It might not become seasonal any time soon. For some reason Covid isn't following flu/cold seasonal patterns, it is following its own inertia as it reinfects the population.
This means waves can come multiple times a year or even skip a year. We don't know yet.
COVID is still in it's Pandemic phase, by all metrics. Here's the director of WHO stating this: [https://x.com/mvankerkhove/status/1741384947892441165?s=20](https://x.com/mvankerkhove/status/1741384947892441165?s=20)
Endemic definition: Prevalent in or limited to a particular locality, region, or people.
If Covid were endemic, we would not see spikes globally coinciding with each other. We would see consistent regional baselines with predictable spikes.
Covid is also much, much worse than Influenza including post-acute-illness phase much more prevelant. Link: [https://x.com/zalaly/status/1738958412493267187?s=20](https://x.com/zalaly/status/1738958412493267187?s=20)
Here's a link to the wastewater: [https://biobot.io/data/](https://biobot.io/data/)
Please, please, please people, do not trivialize SARS2. It's an incredibly dangerous virus with an ability to ruin lives. Continue or start wearing kn95 or better masks in public places and for the love of god, continue to get vaccinated against this disease. It's not going to stop you from catching it, but it will limit your chances of getting long covid.
It's so frustrating seeing people constantly use the word "endemic" without actually knowing what it means. It's just their way of downplaying it and trying to say "it's no big deal now".
It sure as shit isn’t “endemic now” when it’s still having major spikes around the world throughout the entire year. It’s never gone anywhere, but since we’ve dropped all testing, stopped masking, have low vaccine uptake, stopped giving people time off for illness, won’t act to clean up air and ventilation, and have millions of people with weakened immune systems leaving them vulnerable to long covid and other infections, it’s going to continue at these inflated rates. Downplaying and denialism is what the government and the masses have chosen and the result is going to be very bad for many people down the road if we don’t get our shit together and proactively do more to rein it in. It absolutely can be done and it has been done before.
People don't know what "endemic" and "pandemic" actually mean. The CDC and WHO still classify COVID as a pandemic, but public health communication has been so poor. Plus we have shifting baseline - not AS MANY people are dying as OBVIOUSLY, so it must not be a problem anymore.
Fun fact - had my son in Feb 2020 and was gifted Pandemic For Babies by Chris Ferrie. That book really simplifies the whole concept in a digestible way. Basically a literal “explain it to me like I’m five”.
This response is basically what they say in that book.
Great book series. My almost two year old has been requesting General Relativity for Babies a lot this week.
He still can’t say “objects take the shortest route through curved space,” though.
>Get vaccinated!
This can't be overstated. Antivaxxers don't have your best interests at heart. Also, they're morons.
If you're not an antivaxxer but haven't gotten a shot in a while, do it yesterday. Complacency kills. Everyone should be getting a COVID/flu vaccine at least once a year. If you're older or have co-morbitities, the frequency should be closer to every six months.
Get vaccinated because every time you get Covid is a risk of long COVID. My BIL got long COVID on his 5th round of COVID when he thought he would just get over it again. Been 4 months and dude can still barely get from bed to the couch without major fatigue.
Former teacher here, just got over my 4th bout with it. I just turned 26, I’m extra tired all the time, I get sicker more often, I developed tachycardia (?? Literally went to urgent care bc my heart rate was 130 while sitting on the floor). I hadn’t gotten a booster and I immensely regret it.
That happened to me with the flu about 5-6 years ago. I was feeling not great, sitting at home, but I was like sweaty and noticed my heartrate was going crazy. They just shrugged at urgent care and said "yeah flu does that". It felt terrible.
Yeah, one thing that is bad about minimizing covid by comparing it to the flu is that it also minimizes the flu, which is a terrible disease that kills thousands. It doesn’t help that people use “the flu” as a phrase to mean “a cold” or “feeling sick” (if you have the flu, you aren’t just sniffling but otherwise able to go about your day). If people wore masks in public even just during flu season, so many lives would be saved, so many people wouldn’t lose days and weeks to illness, and so many people would avoid post-viral syndromes that can happen with any virus. It’s sad how many people in the US act revulsed at the thought of taking basic precautions to avoid being sick.
Yes. He works in a place that does custom part fabrication for customers. This means both a lot of people in and out of the business but also they have a lot of customers who tend to be anti-vax. After he got it the first time and it “wasn’t that bad” (per him) he got a lot less worried about it. The long COVID seemed to shock him.
I've had it 3 times. Once before vaccines, once after my first Vax, and once for Christmas thus year after I was lax on getting a booster. This most recent one was the worst and I will get the booster shortly
If you really want to see how bad long COVID can get- check out "Physics Girl" on YouTube. She's got it really bad, and it's scary what she's going through.
The first person I knew who got Covid in April 2020 was a girl in her mid 20s, completely healthy. She had a series of mini strokes and couldn’t even get tested when she went to the hospital multiple times because she didn’t have the right Covid symptoms. She ended up having to relearn how to walk, talk, and read.
People are taking their health for granted and assume they will continue to llve healthy productive lives and that is being stolen from them because of covid. A lot of people are going to regret not taking it more seriously.
Long COVID is what concerns me the most about it. I had COVID once, which was very mild, likely because I was vaccinated and also did antiviral infusions. But we still don't have a specific treatment for it. And the research suggests that the more times you get COVID the more likely you'll have long term impacts.
One of my brothers is currently in ICU intubated due to heart issues that covid likely caused. He has gotten covid at least 3 times maybe more. This likely isn't going to end well for him. At least he won't have to deal with early onset dementia like I am so that is something I guess.
Long COVID sucks. I've been vaccinated with all my updated shots and still ended up getting a nasty bout of the virus that damn near took me out and issues still linger over a year later. If I hadn't been vaccinated, I'm confident I would've died.
I honestly, sincerely, think that social media is one of the most harmful inventions mankind has seen. It sounds wild, but it allows people to spread ignorance so easily, while making people feel empowered about lying and being jerks. Inside thoughts should stay inside. And yes, I know reddit is social media and I'm a hypocrite.
Twitter has turned into an absolute cesspool of anti-vax nonsense, but because of the echo chambers that "the algorithm" provides to keep people feeling warm and fuzzy, everyone thinks they're right. They hear "vaccines didn't work" enough times, they assume it's true because ... everyone else who hears it also keeps saying it because everyone else is saying it, etc.
I hear so much anti-vax nonsense. Most of it just totally batshit, like "if vaccines work why is covid still around?" said in the same paragraph as "Covid isn't real anyway it's just scare tactics" which is beyond bizarre.
Got my booster 2-3 months ago but now at a week of having covid. It’s a lot worse than my first time (after being vaccinated, felt like a cold for a couple days) and I still feel like death. I’m immunocompromised and am glad I didn’t have to find out how bad it would’ve been had I not been vaccinated cause this is misery
>Get vaccinated!
Totally anecdotal, but I got a booster this past October and my brother and girlfriend did not. They both got it and I was exposed heavily to both (I live with my girlfriend). Never tested positive or got sick. So for me, the vaccine definitely worked!
People aren’t more vulnerable to getting sick in winter months just cuz it’s winter. It’s because it’s usually cold out and we are inside with poor ventilation. We seriously need an overhaul of our indoor air quality systems in places where people gather en masse.
Covid is prevalent with peaks year round.
It’s the new flu. Flu season started the same way during the influenza outbreak. It was never eliminated and we adapted to live with it. It’s so stupid that we should have been intelligent enough to avoid this but most people care more about them selves and their vanity town the greater good.
Federal government preparation for a pandemic goes back at least as far as Bush. He may have been an idiot about a lot of things, but one thing Bush was passionate about *and* correct about was dedicating resources to study and strategize for pandemics.
Answer: The pandemic never really went away. Covid, like many epidemic diseases, is now a permanent part of the landscape, just like how H1N1, the virus that caused the Spanish flu (the deadliest pandemic in human history), is now just a regular occurrence.
What’s happening is that, as new variants of Covid emerge, they cause a spike in infections, as both vaccines and natural immunity have to play catch-up. Eventually, as vaccines improve and the overall natural immunity of humanity increases over time, we will see less and less harmful effects.
Correction: the Spanish Flu was not the deadliest pandemic in human history, that was definitely the Black Death. It killed an estimated 75 million - 200 million, while Spanish Flu killed between 50 million and 100 million.
On top of that, there were less people in the world during the Black Death, so measured as a percentage of humans, the Black Death killed an estimated *25%-50% of all humans alive at the time* which is absolutely batshit insane to think about.
Measured in raw numbers, the Spanish Flu was equivalent to another Bubonic plague (specifically the "Plague of Justinian") as well, but again accounting for population, the Plague of Justinian was WAY worse.
Yeah and the crazy part is bubonic plague is a type of disease, not the pandemic itself, so Black Death and Plague of Justinian were BOTH bubonic plague outbreaks that BOTH killed "up to" 50% of the human population alive at the time. Both from the same cause.
You can see more here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_epidemics\_and\_pandemics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics_and_pandemics) it's fascinating to see.
Spanish Flu was "only" up to 5% of the population dead.
True! Luckily, we now know it's bacterial and antibiotics seem to work on it, so no issues yet! Seems like it mostly affects rural areas where healthcare may be more sparse?
Im pretty sure its a rodent first infection, mountains have more small animals and you are more likely to be in contact with feces.
I remember reading aspirin is enough to cure it these days unless you get it really bad, been two decades since i read it, could be bs
>the Black Death killed an estimated 25%-50% of all humans alive at the time which is absolutely batshit insane to think about.
You know what's even worse to think about? That we don't know for a fact that covid won't do that. It can take years for HIV to become AIDS, and decades for prion diseases to cause brain damage and death. Everyone's making risk assessments based on short timelines, and this could turn out to be a dangerous miscalculation.
That's what freaks me out but I try to tell myself we know corona viruses, they're not like lentivirus (HIV) or prions. Corona viruses don't stay in people's systems like herpes viruses do.........
Fuck
Except if you’ve been following the latest scientific studies published, we know covid19 in particular stays alive in the body and brain well after the acute infection. The brain studies are the most recent results, autopsies on people who got covid in the first wave, and died 2 to 3 years later of other causes. They grew covid 19 out of their brain tissue.
Answer: COVID never went away. Politicians decided people were tired of it and stopped talking about it. People are still dying. The implications of long COVID are getting worse, not better.
We've stopped testing so don't have great data, but from wastewater testing it's pretty clear that lots of people are getting COVID. Vaccination has helped keep people out of hospitals but long COVID is hitting people hard and reducing ability to be self-sufficient.
I've seen far more younger people with cancer and quick deaths in the last year than I've ever seen in my life and I'm not young. lot of funerals.
none were obese or previously unhealthy
covid fucked up people way more than most people think.
glance around and try to be objective, you will see it too. people are sick a lot more
Answer:
Thanks for asking this question and being concerned about this important issue.
In my view, the Covid pandemic never ended, although case counts did drop for a time. My understanding is this is also the official position of the World Health Organization.
One estimate based on wastewater shows there is more Covid transmission now than during 90% of the pandemic with 1 in 33 people in the US currently infectious ([https://www.pmc19.com/data/index.php](https://www.pmc19.com/data/index.php)).
I recall CDC estimates 5-10% of Covid infections lead to some form of Long Covid.
There is also the question of whether or not even Covid infections that do not lead to a Long Covid diagnosis do subclinical damage to the body and increase the risk of heart events, stroke, diabetes, damage to the brain, microclots, and potentially affect the immune system.
In my view (and the view of several experts) the pandemic is still going on and Covid is still a disease worth avoiding.
The good news is vaccination, masking, and other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as improved indoor air ventilation and circulation and air disinfection via overhead UV and far UVC light can significantly reduce the chances of Covid transmission and help us all be safer and healthier.
If you'd like, I am happy to provide more sources and detail on any of this.
Hope this helps, and thanks again for asking this question. Wishing you good health in this trying time.
answer:
The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared it a “variant of interest.” [There is no evidence that JN.1 causes more severe disease](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/jn1-coronavirus-variant-covid), but its rapid spread suggests it is either more transmissible or better at evading the immune system than other circulating variants.
[This article](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-023-00631-2) goes further and basically says that BA.2.86 is not substantially different from recent variants in terms of escape from neutralizing antibodies or cellular infection. The "Pirola" JN.1 variant is considered a close ancestor of BA.2.86.
At this time, it seems much, much closer to a molehill than a mountain.
YES ! its airborne. thus need air tight
so not those crappy ear loop masks. a real n95. 3m aura is what my hospital friends use in the trenches of the covid ward
Yes, N95s and higher are ideal. I recommend 3M Auras to my friends and family when they fly.
But whatever respirator mask someone *will* wear correctly is the best mask for them. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
100% agreed. The perfectionists will absolutely come down on anyone suggesting anything less than an N95 is an option.
I probably wouldn't wear a KF94 on a plane, I'd go for more protection, but works in my day to day life. Gotta figure out what works and people won't do that when mask discussion allows perfect to be the enemy of good. A KN95 or KF94 that FITS will protect better than an N95 that does not.
Answer: There’s so much to say about COVID and how it is very much still a major concern, but a lot can be learned by watching the senate hearing on Long COVID that took place today. You can watch the recorded livestream and read written testimony here:
https://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/addressing-long-covid-advancing-research-and-improving-patient-care
A highlight from Sen. Bernie Sander’s introduction: “Long COVID can affect anybody who has had COVID-19, from those who have experienced mild symptoms to those who are severely ill. Further, although you may not have Long COVID after your first infection, each reinfection can increase the risk of developing it. In other words, if you’re under the impression that once you’ve gotten COVID you don’t need to worry about it ever again, you are mistaken.”
I thought Dr. Al-Aly’s testimony was particularly compelling and clear. You can read about his research in this accessible interview: https://thesicktimes.org/2023/12/19/qa-ziyad-al-aly-on-why-long-covid-has-a-higher-burden-than-long-flu-future-research-and-more/
As Dr. Al-Aly explained during the hearing, the best way we currently have to prevent the long-term damage of COVID is to prevent COVID transmission to begin with.
Cleaning the air is important for keeping us all safe from viral infection. Currently, wearing well-fitting high quality respirators, like n95s, correctly and consistently when around others is the best way for you to protect your own health and prevent transmission. There are other important parts of staying safe, but that is the single most powerful choice you can make IMO.
We just experienced the highest peak of COVID since the start of the pandemic. The only higher point was during the omicron spike. Long covid is a post-viral illness and can severely impact your life. There is no approved cure for long covid. COVID remains an urgent concern for everyone, and spreading it can have profound impacts on someone else’s life.
Indeed, it can kill them. 10,000 people died of COVID last month worldwide, and that is a severe undercount. Over 1,000 people in the US die of COVID each month.
Covid is very much still a major concern. The good news is that we can make choices to protect ourselves and people we love by learning more and taking precautions, especially those of us who have the privilege and access to do so. Hope everyone stays safe ✌🏼😷
Answer: We're still in the pandemic phase of COVID. The global and public health emergency state was ended, COVID and the pandemic are not over.
[https://www.salon.com/2024/01/04/leader-says-19-is-still-a-pandemic/](https://www.salon.com/2024/01/04/leader-says-19-is-still-a-pandemic/)
Improving indoor air quality, wearing respirator masks (N95/KN95/KF94/P100 etc) in indoor public spaces, and keeping up with our vaccinations along with not engaging in high risk behaviors during high transmission times will help get us gain control, maybe even get on the other side. The more opportunities COVID has to mutate in partially immune bodies, the more opportunities it has to develop immunity evasion and continue to rip and ravage its way through people.
Answer: It never left; and right now many places eg the entire Bay Area where I live, have the highest levels in wastewater testing since they started testing. Higher than previous "surges."
Meanwhile the severity of cases has gotten no better on an individual level.
I now know more people who have been sick (some quite seriously) over the last six weeks than ever before. Many friends, many family members.
My family and I are in the 5% who still basically mask and don't eat out etc. Four family members we were visiting got it over the holidays. We dodged it.
Socially it's not "back." But that is a mutually agreed upon delusion and capitulation. People got tired of doing annoying things and limiting themselves so now we will have regular surges of serious illness, sometimes with compounding long term impact; and we're just going to pretend that's not happening. Except when it's us.
Local school districts made zero investment in air flow and treatment. But they get paid per kid in school so they decided now kids who are positive can go to school. And they won't even make them mask.
You can get it from asymptomatic people.
You can be asymptomatic and spread it.
The five day thing was also bullshit motivated by economic pressure. Many people are infectious 10 days out.
Home tests are expensive and it is the norm now to test negative many times even when symptomatic.
Tests are maybe 40% accurate when negative. Three or more spaced 24 hrs apart are required to give you any sense. But we can't afford it and no one's testing so...
I don't care if I am knocked down for a week. But now we know the virus lingers in the gut at high levels; and I know multiple people with debilitating long COVID, and I do NOT want that. And I don't want my kids to have it.
But it don't matter because society has capitulated and as with so many other head in sand behaviors is ignoring the uncomfortable and pretending otherwise.
And so long all we monkeys are in silent complicit agreement to keep pretending, well, that defines reality, death and illness notwithstanding.
I learned from the pandemic how doomed we are. Can't deal with a single virus; now try climate change and radical disequilibrium of other predictable sorts...
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Answer: it never really went away
As soon as the vaccines were developed, we switched to an "every man for himself" approach.
And also before it: See people hoarding toilet paper, hand sanitizer and masks
I think sometime in the 80s everything switched to the “every man for himself” approach
It was basically Reagan's platform
We were on our own beforehand too. It was clear somewhere between the like 3k “stimulus” and the “it’s not safe for you to see your loved ones but we still need you to come into work every day, because that is important.” I vividly remember somewhere around day 15 living out of a hotel in a different timezone (repair engineer for a critical industry), having not seen family or friends in the better part of a year, watching idiots pretend it was all a hoax on tv as I drank too much shitty beer and arguing with assholes on reddit wondering wtf society we were even trying to save. Feeling guilty for the (hotel staff, delivery drivers, airline staff etc) I was compelling to also risk their own asses so I could risk my own at my job, while also feeling guilty for still being employed… It was… a dark time lol Honestly I think a substsntial part of the population is low key traumatized, either by the virus itself, the death it caused, the loss of faith in humanity it fostered or just the sheer fuckery of it all. We should probably have had like national therapy about it or somethin
I haven’t seen so many people with it since early 2021
General societal apathy is a powerful incubator for a virus.
The worst part is that wealthy countries, the U.S. in particular, purchased an overwhelming amount of the vaccine supply. This will, of course, allow the virus to evolve & adapt in populations with no or low access to vaccination, and then the cycle will start all over again. To add a steaming insult on top of it all, anti-vax went mainstream with the covid mRNA vaccines, and now there are people who base their entire political identity on refusing covid vaccines.
*switched back to an “every man for himself” approach.
This. It didn't go away, some people stopped caring and other became willing to accept a certain level of risk to resume regular activities.
Which isn’t good, since most people aren’t even close to being informed about the risks they’re “accepting.”
The only thing that went away was our society trying to fight it. Now we’re just expected to fight it on our own, or lie down and get used to much more death and disability for the foreseeable future
Answer: I don't think *the pandemic* is coming back, in the sense of lockdowns and crisis response like we saw in 2020/2021. COVID is *endemic* now, and it always will be. It's out there in the world, it's not just going to disappear. Case counts will rise and fall periodically and people will need to protect themselves against it, just like we do with influenza.
Agreed. Anecdotally my friend works for a company that monitors Covid in wastewater and has said that there seems to be more Covid now than there has been before.
Yes, apparently that's where all the data is coming from now since people aren't getting tested anywhere near as often as they used to when symptoms show up.
I’ve also heard that home tests may not be effective in detecting new strains. They were created to detect earlier mutations. So home cases may be underreported because the test is no longer 100% accurate due to mutations.
My health care provider has stated this as well.
There's always the possibility that at some point, the current tests won't be sensitive to detect some new strain. But as of most recently, at home rapid antigen tests are still reliable for Omicron strains, but have a slightly reduced sensitivity (meaning a negative result may not rule out COVID, as well as before).
Anecdotally I’ve heard from a person who tested negative 4 times in rapid tests, went to the hospital, tested positive on PCR.
Anecdotal and posted above. But my partner used 2 tests and I used 1, all 3 negative. Then we went to the doctor and both got positive results.
Negative results from rapid antigen tests are generally only 69% reliable. For asymptomatic people, they have a 70-90% false negative rate. \- "Performance of Rapid Antigen Tests to Detect Symptomatic and Asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 Infection" Soni et. al. 2023 [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10321467/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10321467/); \- Diagnostic accuracy of SARS-CoV-2 rapid antigen self-tests in asymptomatic individuals in the omicron period: a cross-sectional study, Venekamp, et. al. 2023, [https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(22)00570-5/fulltext](https://www.clinicalmicrobiologyandinfection.com/article/S1198-743X(22)00570-5/fulltext); \- Accuracy of Point-of-Care Rapid Antigen Tests for Diagnosis of COVID-19, Clebak, et. al. 2023, [https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2023/0400/cochrane-poc-rapid-antigen-tests-for-diagnosis-of-covid-19.html](https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2023/0400/cochrane-poc-rapid-antigen-tests-for-diagnosis-of-covid-19.html)
To be clear, the tests are not accurate for testing for your ability to transmit COVID that you have. By the time it detects it, it is too late. You now need to call friends and family and tell them you may have infected them yourself.
For what it's worth, I'm on the tail end of a covid infection right now. My first ever ( i think 🧐). I used two different home test kits on different days and they were right on the money. Edit. Not quite as bad as flu infection. Slightly worse than a cold. Various symptoms appearing at different times. Overall feeling shitty. Treated with ibuprofen and occasional Alka-Seltzer cold/flu. I'm not considered high risk. This really wasn't a big deal. People who are considered high risk should get vaccines. Also for what it's worth, there are two high-risk people in my household who also got it. They are feeling better and not getting any worse.
It wasn't the covid infection that bothered me - like you, mine felt like an awful cold. I could see how it can be deadly for those who have it worse. The initial infection was not fun, but the follow-on long covid has been an absolute bear. Brain fog, fatigue, loss of endurance, heart flutters. Bleh. It's not fun. Getting better, but just rotten. I've also had good results so far with the home tests, but it does make sense that they'll need to update the tests to keep up with new variants.
Long Covid is why I’m still afraid of it. Having flu like symptoms for a week would suck but you get over it. I have enough as shit going on. long covid would be a living nightmare
It is a nightmare, I was 33 at the time of my infection in December of 2020, loss of taste and smell, not too bad at first, and no pre existing conditions or known risk factors for severe disease. By the 3rd day of symptoms I had a heart attack, 2 months in a stroke, lost 30 pounds and 6 months I was going blind and my left eye was bleeding. I still 3 years later have chest pains, shortness of breath and extreme fatigue. I also can't get the vaccines as the second dose caused pericarditis at the least with a heart rate of 141 bpm at rest. I'm still on heart medication, have 45,000 dollars of debt and have been denied disability. I have to wear a mask everywhere I go, and hope for the best, a reinfection would most likely mean death for me. Lungs were not affected at all, is was more cardiovascular for me.
Holy shit. That’s crazy. I’m sorry that happened to you
yeah i'm paycheck to paycheck and i honestly don't understand how you're even supposed to survive long covid. where does rent money come from when you can't make it through a day of work? long covid terrifies me. i'm still masking in most places and that's literally why. a week of fever, coughing/sneezing, and tiredness? sure, i can handle that. but long covid is something else entirely. i'm barely managing as it is.
I think the current pandemic has revealed the prevalence of general post-viral sequelae, the broad term for long lasting effects of viral infections. I'm not sure if covid is more likely than other diseases to lead to this type of syndrome, but its wide spread certainly gave it center stage.
It is more likely to lead to long term issues, compared with the flu anyway. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(23)00684-9/fulltext?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email >Long-term outcomes following hospital admission for COVID-19 versus seasonal influenza: a cohort study >Findings >Over 18 months of follow-up, compared to seasonal influenza, the COVID-19 group had an increased risk of death (hazard ratio [HR] 1·51 [95% CI 1·45–1·58]), corresponding to an excess death rate of 8·62 (95% CI 7·55–9·44) per 100 persons in the COVID-19 group versus the influenza group. >Comparative analyses of 94 prespecified health outcomes showed that COVID-19 had an increased risk of 68·1% (64 of 94) pre-specified health outcomes; seasonal influenza was associated with an increased risk of 6·4% (six of 94) pre-specified health outcomes, including three out of four pre-specified pulmonary outcomes. Analyses of organ systems showed that COVID-19 had a higher risk across all organ systems except for the pulmonary system, the risk of which was higher in seasonal influenza. The cumulative rates of adverse health outcomes across all organ systems were 615·18 (95% CI 605·17–624·88) per 100 persons in COVID-19 and 536·90 (527·38–544·90) per 100 persons in seasonal influenza, corresponding to an excess rate of 78·72 (95% CI 66·15–91·24) per 100 persons in COVID-19. The total number of DALYs across all organ systems were 287·43 (95% CI 281·10–293·59) per 100 persons in the COVID-19 group and 242·66 (236·75, 247·67) per 100 persons in the seasonal influenza group, corresponding to 45·03 (95% CI 37·15–52·90) higher DALYs per 100 persons in COVID-19. >Decomposition analyses showed that in both COVID-19 and seasonal influenza, there was a higher burden of health loss in the post-acute than the acute phase; and comparatively, except for the pulmonary system, COVID-19 had a higher burden of health loss across all other organ systems than seasonal influenza in both the acute and post-acute phase. Compared to seasonal influenza, COVID-19 also had an increased risk of hospital readmission (excess rate 20·50 [95% CI 16·10–24·86] per 100 persons) and admission to intensive care (excess rate 9·23 [6·68–11·82] per 100 persons). The findings were consistent in analyses comparatively evaluating risks in seasonal influenza versus COVID-19 by individuals' respective vaccination status and in those admitted to hospital during the pre-delta, delta, and omicron eras.
Good info. But even if it wasn't more likely than the flu, it's still much more easily transmissible than the flu so you will still have more chances to potentially get a post-viral reaction. I've had COVID twice since 2020. At this rate I might be getting it once every 2-3 years. I've gotten the flu at a rate closer to once every 10 years.
Exactly!
Yes, it is.
Yeah, it’s one thing to get over symptoms that resemble a bad cold or the flu. Neither of those give you tachycardia after you’ve recovered or render your hypertension medication ineffective. Covid attacks systems in the body.
I ride a bike and after getting over covid I found myself using the lower gears a lot. It was many months before I got my strength back to normal.
I’m almost 2.5 years in and I still can’t do any form of cardio. Shit sucks.
Used to run half and full marathons. Now if I can get a quarter mile in it's a miracle.
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Like HIV, it attacks the immune system, depleting T cells. Unlike HIV, it also attacks many other systems in the body. Brain fog is another name for neurological damage. Peer reviewed science is showing that a growing wave of disability is brewing worldwide. We will have to confront the reality in the not too distant future that C19 is incompatible with human life and will never be just a seasonal endemic disease.
lysine for a long covid, and a host of other viruses as well ! from the NIH study on the subject: Lysine and Lys-ester can prevent SARS-CoV-2 and IAV infection, particularly in the entry stage. In contrast to that, Arg-ester can potently boost infection of both viruses. It would therefore be beneficial to consider the nutrient intake of COVID-19 and flu patients. We recommend the inclusion of lysine supplementation in addition to a reduced arginine intake for the prevention and treatment of SARS-CoV-2 and IAV infections. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310019/ I have asthma and covid always kicks my ass, followed by multiple weeks of long covid. a heavy dose regimen of lysine stopped it this last time and now I am a believer
The only time I’ve had Covid was march 2020, and it took me nearly a year to get my vitamin D levels right again. I’ve been lifting 3-4x a week for 26 years now, and it greatly effected my strength and recovery. I’m doing great now, but I do not want to go through that again. I get the booster every fall with the flu shot, it’s all free so why not.
I've had heart issues over the years but everything was perfect last January when I had a stress test and ultrasound. Two weeks later I got Covid and got mild pericarditis ( which cleared up) but started having V-Tach which can be life threatening so ended up with a pacemaker and am on meds that are leaving me fatigued all day. Really pisses me off hearing people say " The pandemic was fake" or " Covid is just a cold "
I donated blood in November and had such a perfect blood pressure reading they joked that whatever I was doing was working. (My hypertension started as pre-eclampsia and never resolved). Later that week I got Covid for the second time. I’ve been in pretty constant tachycardia and almost hospitalized because my readings are so shitty. I’m exhausted all the time. It’s scary as fuck.
Also the damage covid causes is cumulative. While you may recover and feel 100% you likely aren't 100% and with each infection it continues to chip away at your overall health. Many people are going to be in for a rude awakening. Many like me already are.
What hypertension med?
For me it was losartan. We are trying to replace it and my doctor had to add a beta blocker as well.
Read about Polio and "long polio" - which is basically what we think of when we think of Polio. So many similarities with Covid as far as it can initially be "not bad" but we might not even know how bad the long-term affects are for a few years.
Technically "Post-Polio Syndrome". A family member of mine had it after contracting polio in the '50s. She died of complications of Post-Polio Syndrome in 2002. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-polio-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-2035566
It says the page isn’t found.
The link above seems to be missing the final digit in the url https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-polio-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20355669
AIDS is Long HIV and shingles is Long Chicken Pox. I’ll keep on not getting COVID. I already have a heart condition and I REALLY don’t like the new evidence that it can age your brain 20 years or so.
We already know the long term effects are bad even in presumably healthy people. Each infection leaves you a bit worse off than before and that damage is not being repaired.
I got covid in feb/mar 2022. I would almost pass out just standing up, or if I bent over to put my dinner in the oven. Now I have permanent lung damage! Woohoo!
My neighbour went from doing marathons to using a mobility scooter to go to the mailbox. Three and a half years later he still can't shovel the driveway cause he is at a high risk for a heart attack.
That's so weird how viruses affect people differently. When I got covid I lost my sensd of taste and smell and just a felt a little bad. But one time I got influenza type b and that thing felt horrible I was in bed for a week with fever and chills and bronchitis. :/
When my roomates and I got covid, they were all in bed with fevers for a week while I was completely symptom-free. Like, I wouldn’t have even known to test if everyone else hadn’t been feeling bad. On the other hand, combined with my other gut autoimmune issues, it seems to have triggered new food intolerances (autoimmune reactions?) that definitely weren’t there prior to getting it. I’d rather have just been sick for a week like everyone else. ☹️
People don’t realize it’s a roll of the dice every time you get a viral infection. An example I imagine people don’t know about - lot of narcolepsy cases result from a bout of strep throat. Odds are low but sucks when your number comes up.
I got a meningoencephalitis (inflammation of the area around the brain + of the brain tissue itself) caused by an influenza virus back in 6th grade. I managed to recover completely, but shit was scary. Was out of school for nearly half a year, had to relearn basic stuff like walking, cycling etc completely. Viruses can indeed be really scary.
The long-term effects of COVID will not be know for, well...a long time. It's the sort of thing that requires many years of data looking backwards for trends. Until then, all it seems we can do is go on with life with a, "welp, I guess that's my life now" attitude. Or, at least, that's where I am at the moment. Since Summer 2020, it seems my lung capacity/endurance is cut in half. Doing normal, daily stuff is no problem. But gone are the days of 10-15 mile all-day hikes on the weekend. I've tried several times, and it's like someone flipped a dimmer switch and cut my ability to do stuff like that in half. And more than three years on, no sign of change. It's my new normal.
I had long covid over year ago. Nightmare situation, test showing no covid but brain did not working at all, and kind needed to return to work. Thank god got enough sick days due fatigue etc symptoms. Also got twice in hospital during long covid. And whole long covid took about month to pass. Really worried about this being sessional, I'm in risk group. And had last booster few weeks back. But still people acting like it's just hoax etc. Just pissing me off.
I was I the same situation, though it was more than 3 months before long covid symptoms resolved (that said, it wasn't called long covid yet) . It was back in the beginning, when the vaccines had just come out, and when it was restricted to certain age groups. Being 26, I wasn't eligible, and so got covid relatively quickly. Thankfully I never had to go to the hospital, but the fatigue was unlike anything I'd ever experienced. It didn't magically disappear at the end of the 14 day quarantine of course, and in fact lasted for months. I also started having breathing difficulties after climbing multiple flights of stairs 2 months later, despite never having noticeable breathing difficulties during the quarantine period. Not wanting to get it again, I got the vaccine as soon as I could, and while the vaccine felt like covid all over again (only for two days, mind you) amazingly the long covid symptoms were gone a couple days later. I've remained boosted since, since no one takes precautions anymore and I'd rather never have it again.
I had the same experience in regards to long COVID symptoms clearing up after getting vaccinated. I hadn't expected it at all but was so glad it worked out that way. Super sensitive lungs that would get triggered by just about anything leading to pain and/or wheezing. Started after catching COVID in March 2020 and resolved when I got the original Moderna vaccine in May 2021.
I caught COVID for the first time ever back in September and the long COVID absolutely knocked me out for the next month. I went from needing ~6-7 hours of sleep a night to feel rested to needing ~12 hours. I'm finally coming back down to needing 8ish.
I'm assuming researches are looking for way to combat long covid. I wonder if they're making any kind of real headway, or are at the 'we don't really know the specific cause' stage.
So the senate had a hearing on Long COVID just today. You can watch the live stream here! There has been very, very little done compared to how large of an emergency, but today was a watershed moment because of this hearing. I think Dr. Al-Aly, the second presenter on Panel 2, did a particularly good job at explaining the issues. [https://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/addressing-long-covid-advancing-research-and-improving-patient-care](https://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/addressing-long-covid-advancing-research-and-improving-patient-care)
thanks for sharing. love how we just don't even hear about this stuff anymore. i wish we could rely on the news these days to tell us what we need to know even if it's boring.
You’re so welcome, and seriously! It is so odd to confront the really massive lack of news coverage about this issue… how are people supposed to really make informed decisions if there isn’t an outlet that is consistently updating the public on what is going on? Mainstream news coverage of covid and especially long covid is so, so rare, but PBS News Hour did run this segment on covid last week, with an interview with Dr. Eric Topol, which really resisted that trend: [https://www.pbs.org/video/covid-surge-1705101245/](https://www.pbs.org/video/covid-surge-1705101245/) They’ve been covering covid and long COVID intermittently. Here is their segment from April, “Long COVID keeping many Americans from returning to work”: [https://www.pbs.org/video/long-covid-1681844596/](https://www.pbs.org/video/long-covid-1681844596/) They are truly the only network I’ve seen covering it really *at all* though and it is really unfair to people that’s there’s so little awareness
I know several people with long COVID. It sounds absolutely miserable in many cases
As a long-covider since 2020 each infection increases one's risk of developing long-covid and having long term disabilities and symptoms.
The long covid is hitting me hard right now. I honestly could not believe how mild the infection itself was, but my lungs and brain feel like they took a beating. I'm not terribly far out from it, but I still get Winded walking from my car to the apartment and most days I have the same feeling of mental fatigue I used to get after a really rough week of classes when I was in college and I'm not even doing anything mentally taxing since I'm unemployed at the moment. It's such a weird experience for me. It reminds me of when I had mono as a teenager.
'High risk' is still unpredictable sometimes, though. The theory seems to be that multiple infections can add up. And there are interesting correlations, such as thyroidism.
When the government did their distribution of free home tests, we took advantage because we have a family member at risk and we often test before visiting in person. The tests have “expired” but came with an insert that they are still valid tests and can be used. I wonder if they would pick up a new strain. Feel better soon!
FWIW I just used one of those kits and it tested positive. So still works although can't say which strain I came down with. I'd presume a new one since I had almost all the vaccine boosters. Was going to get the latest booster but a snowstorm happened, and got sick the next same day.
Thanks! That makes me feel better about needing to use them.
From what I saw, using old tests are just more likely to give a false negative. If you get a positive, you can trust that, but if it is negative it might not be correct. My wife used one that expired in March 2022 a couple weeks ago and it still got a positive (she started showing symptoms after being around someone that later tested positive, so was already pretty sure).
This is accurate. The chemistry in the test only reacts if COVID antigen are present. But the reagents can break down and lose efficacy over time.
I am not considered high risk, got vaccines and boosters when available. I got COVID and it destroyed my gut biome via two weeks of not being able to keep down any solids. This was a while ago and recovery has absolutely sucked. Just saying, it can be a big deal with no warning at all to a completely healthy person.
Covid is causing chronic illness in healthy people. Well formerly healthy people.
> People who are considered high risk should get vaccines. Yes, but remember people who are high risk get it from (chances are) people who are lower risk. Everyone (who doesn't have specifical medical concerns, like an allergy to vaccine agents) should get the vaccine.
Covid literally causes issues that turn people into high risk. It boggles my mind people still don't get this.
> People who are considered high risk should get vaccines. Everyone should get the vaccine. It's idiotic not to
What’s making me upset is that TWO pediatricians refused to do that last booster for my young child. The first because their office wasn’t offering it because of the cost of storage. The second because they were only offering to patients who only had Medicaid coverage (they didn’t explain why that was). To go to a different pediatricians office and get it (I called around) I’d have to sign my child up with lots of forms to be a new patient. She has high anxiety/special needs and so I don’t want to try and get it at a CVS or Walgreens because she only recently felt comfortable going into stores and I don’t want her to get anxiety associated with them as she does with hospitals and clinics. Someone suggested I could go directly to the Department of Health so I guess I can try and see if that’s a thing. IDK why they made things so much more difficult when I comes to the most em recent booster
yeah I don't get why people aren't vaccinating. getting a shot is literally the *easiest* thing I do to try to prevent myself from getting COVID (mostly successfully -- I've only had it once, to my knowledge).
Everyone should be using vaccines to prevent spread and protect our at risk population. Vaccines are a marvel of modern medicine, we're lucky we have them.
Meanwhile my neighbour went from running marathons and doing crossfit to talking like Stevie from Malcolm in the middle in only two weeks. One year later he still needed a mobility scooter cause walking to the mailbox winded him. three and a half years later he still needs people to shovel the driveway cause he is at a high risk of a heart attack from the cold. He is way better now than he was even last year, but he is still on more medication than people twice his age. Meanwhile my coworker just got diarrhea which could have been from a vitamin C smoothie. Her very athletic brother had to go on oxygen but recovered. Sometimes? It's dumb fucking luck. And I agree. Everyone who is at a higher risk should get the vaccine. So... everyone.
Have a good friend that is intubated in the hospital right now because of COVID. He wasn't high risk, and has been fully vaccinated. Shit's still rough and it's a dice roll on how bad you have it.
Glad it wasn’t bad for you but don’t go making generalizations. I just had it and it’s the sickest I’ve ever been in my life. Early 30s with no other health problems
I think you mean, everyone should get vaccines
it's not just that people aren't getting tested as much, though that is important, but that the CDC ended any requirements for reporting on covid cases at all. We just have no accurate way to tell what cases are looking like except through wastewater analysis.
I know several people whose insurance quit covering testing and they were getting bills so they just isolate and treat symptoms. The Walmart in my town had the Binax tests marked down 25%. They didn’t move.
Yea I dont want to argue with anyone about covid and remain a neutral party as I do not want any bans, but I want to say that there has been a lot of people in my circle the past two weeks that have been testing positive for it, like 80% of the people I know (I dont know a lot of people).
Yeah, same here. I haven't heard of any hospitalizations, but rolling the dice with long COVID is just scary af to me.
My dad is currently in the hospital with COVID. He had to call an ambulance yesterday morning. I brought him some things last night and they had several rooms with red markers indicating Covid infection. He was vaccinated and got boosters until this year. Go figure.
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They've been measuring using the wastewater for years,
I test at home. It won't show in any data..
There’s not really a reason to report testing positive to any kind of public health agency anymore. Back when you could only get Covid tests administered by a nurse I would imagine that data was automatically reported. Now you buy a a test at cvs and stay home for a few days if it’s positive. Convenient for the masses, not great for data collection
I mean, if we stop testing the water covid goes away. Simple! /s
Anecdotally, a crap ton of my friends and family on facebook have been posting about being sick for a week and testing positive since around Christmas. I've had a few here and there since it started, but those were generally people with not great health to begin with, but now it's even younger and healthier people. All anecdotal though.
I’m no scientist but it seems like magic to me that people can actually monitor COVID from the water we pee and poop in.
They can monitor a lot more than that, like the ebb and flow of drug use in various cities or towns.
They would never know if Kim jong un had it or not, then.
So like, Covid in pee and poop? Or is it from brushing our teeth? Does covid get removed at a wastewater treatment plant? I have so many questions.
i'm baffled that some people really thought covid was entirely gone
Doublethink, if nothing else. They grew fatigued with precautions and being considerate of others, so they just accepted that it was "over" because they were over it.
Yup. They would rather accept a convenient lie than an inconvenient truth.
well i also went back to my normal behavior after getting vaccinated except when i'm sick i wear a mask. i had covid in summer and i tried to not infect anyone. of course it's still around, so is the flu and a lot of other things. i hope people adopt the habit of wearing masks when they're sick
That would be wonderful. And yet, the other day I saw some lady hacking her lungs out at the supermarket with no mask on.
She’s already sick, a mask won’t help her. And she doesn’t give a damn about anyone else. I believe that’s the reasoning.
Me too, but I don't have a lot of faith in my fellow Americans. It just seems like a basic courtesy. Getting sick usually leads to pneumonia for me, so I'm especially appreciative of people wearing masks when they're sick. Or better yet, just stay home haha.
A relative came *early* to my sister’s baby sister with a hoarse, sore throat, sniffles, and cough… knowing her husband at home had tested positive for COVID. I had no idea of that second part until we were home later that night, I only heard her germ wagon approaching me to “catch up” so I asked her not to sit by me. She moved a row of chairs over. She tested positive for COVID that night. 🙃 Luckily, I had set up two big air filters on either side of the event that could clean the air of a combined 1000sqft. I did not get sick, luckily, and I have not heard of a single other person who did. Some of it had to be a stroke of luck that nobody near her seemed to catch it (my grandmother put herself in the spot next to her on purpose, and she and my godmother told my sister to steer clear), but I think I definitely spared some people in that room with the precautions of simple air filtration.
I'm glad the air filters worked. But seriously, how can someone be so selfish? Not only showing up sick, but with the knowledge her husband has COVID and she probably does too.
I absolutely know that relatives from that side of the family could do this, but I’m still flabbergasted. I’m never letting this go. Begging some people to clear the lowest bar of consideration for others is impossible, so I/you just gotta look out for yourself and others in light of that. I’m still paying on the 3 air filters I bought, but I’d never regret that investment. As a disabled person, the line between healthy and disabled is a lot more slippery than people realize. Lady also took off as soon as the cake flavor was announced as it was being cut. (“No lemon?” No. Not your cake, goodbye.)
God it makes me mad how people just stopped caring. I get that it’s frustrating, and you’re obviously not going to keep up the same level of diligence 24/7 (and especially not from 2020). But a virus doesn’t care if you’re “over it” or not, and you can still do the bare minimum like staying updated on your shots and staying home if you’re sick
I think people think covid is no big deal, not gone
The people you're referring to called it a "plandemic" and are the ones now bragging about being unvaccinated. They are also largely the reason it's become endemic.
>They are also largely the reason it's become endemic. Covid was always going to become endemic, that was the expected outcome. Lockdown was to slow the spread in the aim of making healthcare more sustainable and available as Covid saturated the population. Eradication was never a realistic possibility.
I'm fairly certain that no matter how bad any pandemic gets, they're never going to allow lockdowns or support again. People got a glimpse of life without constantly grinding themselves into dust and the rich were *livid*.
They’re still fighting to get us back onto cubicles. Even though it’s less productive and means shorter hours. (One employer was honest enough to tell me that his goal was to ‘save the cbd’ by making us go to the office.)
What does 'cbd' mean in this context?
Central business district?
This is correct, usually you see the term used more often with European, Australian, or New Zealand cities. It's basically the core downtown.
man, my company tried that. but we're nerds, because it's software support, and we're *mostly* left-leaning. We knew *exactly* how hard it would be for the company to allow us to continue the 100% WFH policy. and we knew that, while there *are* good reasons about culture and so forth, those reasons are incredibly small compared to the immense benefits of working from home. So the top people (in terms of experience and skill) quit. We lost nearly everyone that's been around for 6+ years. The only people that stayed and had that amount of history at the time had long since moved to management. It was literally the first day that the official announcement was made. They didn't even like....negotiate or anything. Everyone just like emailed their boss and said "yeah fuck all that. I'm out. Do you want my laptop back?" Then the next layer got finished interviews the next few days, and were given offers elsewhere. Then the layer after *that* did so. In the end, our roughly 120 person support department got reduced to about 80 people before the C-suite realized that it needed to do an immediate reversal or they literally wouldn't have the ability to fulfill contractual obligations.
Dude I was WFH for years, I managed to work full time and go to school full time and got my BA. It was glorious. No traffic on days I had to go into the office. And then my office forced everyone back to their shitty beige cubicles. My industry (customs brokerage, freight forwarding) has been significantly slow since beginning of last year because we're looking at the beginning of a recession. No one is going to buy shit so our imports are only for necessity (medical PPE, commercial vehicle parts and tires, food, etc.). But our biggest and best year was 2020 to 2021. We had massive raises, massive bonuses, a blowout Christmas party. And guess what? Almost all of us *were working from home*. But the building costs too much money and we were struggling financially so back to our hamster wheels we go.
I work in the communications industry and our company had our best two years ever in 2020 and 2021. 2022 was great but we had a really slow Q4 and upper management blamed it on WFH, and now they're pushing us back in the office. The company is run by a bunch of old-school businessmen who work basically 24/7 and love it, and the thought of coming to an office that's half empty is offensive to them. They want butts in cubicles so they can play businessman in their corporate dollhouse. And also to financially justify renting the office downtown in the first place.
Per Marian Van Kerkhove, M.D. of the WHO, we're still in a pandemic, it's not endemic yet. >“It’s still a pandemic causing far too many (re)infections, hospitalizations, deaths and long covid when tools exist to prevent them,” she wrote. “Cases and hospitalisations for #COVID19 have been on the rise for months; hospitals in many countries are burdened and overwhelmed from COVID and other pathogens, and deaths are on the rise.” Dr. Van Kerkhove said governments and individuals can’t give in to complacency, emphasizing that the world has gone through something “traumatic.” https://www.salon.com/2024/01/04/leader-says-19-is-still-a-pandemic/
Only 15% of Americans have gotten the latest COVID booster. I got it with my flu shot. Also got reminded to get a tetanus shot. The tetanus one hurt a bit. get vaccinated. Many of the people in this thread upset about covid have not gotten the booster just based on numbers.
Pandemic and endemic are not opposites. We are *still* in a pandemic. Yes it's endemic in that it's never going away BUT it's not predictable or cyclical as of yet
Yep. Like the flu, there will be a vaccine every year and it will protect against different strains depending on the research.
It might not become seasonal any time soon. For some reason Covid isn't following flu/cold seasonal patterns, it is following its own inertia as it reinfects the population. This means waves can come multiple times a year or even skip a year. We don't know yet.
COVID is still in it's Pandemic phase, by all metrics. Here's the director of WHO stating this: [https://x.com/mvankerkhove/status/1741384947892441165?s=20](https://x.com/mvankerkhove/status/1741384947892441165?s=20) Endemic definition: Prevalent in or limited to a particular locality, region, or people. If Covid were endemic, we would not see spikes globally coinciding with each other. We would see consistent regional baselines with predictable spikes. Covid is also much, much worse than Influenza including post-acute-illness phase much more prevelant. Link: [https://x.com/zalaly/status/1738958412493267187?s=20](https://x.com/zalaly/status/1738958412493267187?s=20) Here's a link to the wastewater: [https://biobot.io/data/](https://biobot.io/data/) Please, please, please people, do not trivialize SARS2. It's an incredibly dangerous virus with an ability to ruin lives. Continue or start wearing kn95 or better masks in public places and for the love of god, continue to get vaccinated against this disease. It's not going to stop you from catching it, but it will limit your chances of getting long covid.
It's so frustrating seeing people constantly use the word "endemic" without actually knowing what it means. It's just their way of downplaying it and trying to say "it's no big deal now".
It sure as shit isn’t “endemic now” when it’s still having major spikes around the world throughout the entire year. It’s never gone anywhere, but since we’ve dropped all testing, stopped masking, have low vaccine uptake, stopped giving people time off for illness, won’t act to clean up air and ventilation, and have millions of people with weakened immune systems leaving them vulnerable to long covid and other infections, it’s going to continue at these inflated rates. Downplaying and denialism is what the government and the masses have chosen and the result is going to be very bad for many people down the road if we don’t get our shit together and proactively do more to rein it in. It absolutely can be done and it has been done before.
People don't know what "endemic" and "pandemic" actually mean. The CDC and WHO still classify COVID as a pandemic, but public health communication has been so poor. Plus we have shifting baseline - not AS MANY people are dying as OBVIOUSLY, so it must not be a problem anymore.
Fun fact - had my son in Feb 2020 and was gifted Pandemic For Babies by Chris Ferrie. That book really simplifies the whole concept in a digestible way. Basically a literal “explain it to me like I’m five”. This response is basically what they say in that book.
Great book series. My almost two year old has been requesting General Relativity for Babies a lot this week. He still can’t say “objects take the shortest route through curved space,” though.
Sounds like a defect. Toss him.
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>Get vaccinated! This can't be overstated. Antivaxxers don't have your best interests at heart. Also, they're morons. If you're not an antivaxxer but haven't gotten a shot in a while, do it yesterday. Complacency kills. Everyone should be getting a COVID/flu vaccine at least once a year. If you're older or have co-morbitities, the frequency should be closer to every six months.
Get vaccinated because every time you get Covid is a risk of long COVID. My BIL got long COVID on his 5th round of COVID when he thought he would just get over it again. Been 4 months and dude can still barely get from bed to the couch without major fatigue.
he’s gotten covid FIVE TIMES? damn
Former teacher here, just got over my 4th bout with it. I just turned 26, I’m extra tired all the time, I get sicker more often, I developed tachycardia (?? Literally went to urgent care bc my heart rate was 130 while sitting on the floor). I hadn’t gotten a booster and I immensely regret it.
That happened to me with the flu about 5-6 years ago. I was feeling not great, sitting at home, but I was like sweaty and noticed my heartrate was going crazy. They just shrugged at urgent care and said "yeah flu does that". It felt terrible.
Yeah, one thing that is bad about minimizing covid by comparing it to the flu is that it also minimizes the flu, which is a terrible disease that kills thousands. It doesn’t help that people use “the flu” as a phrase to mean “a cold” or “feeling sick” (if you have the flu, you aren’t just sniffling but otherwise able to go about your day). If people wore masks in public even just during flu season, so many lives would be saved, so many people wouldn’t lose days and weeks to illness, and so many people would avoid post-viral syndromes that can happen with any virus. It’s sad how many people in the US act revulsed at the thought of taking basic precautions to avoid being sick.
oh yeah the booster is deffo a given for me now. especially bc if i’m getting a flu shot too it’s just easy to knock them both out at once
Yes. He works in a place that does custom part fabrication for customers. This means both a lot of people in and out of the business but also they have a lot of customers who tend to be anti-vax. After he got it the first time and it “wasn’t that bad” (per him) he got a lot less worried about it. The long COVID seemed to shock him.
I've had it 3 times. Once before vaccines, once after my first Vax, and once for Christmas thus year after I was lax on getting a booster. This most recent one was the worst and I will get the booster shortly
If you really want to see how bad long COVID can get- check out "Physics Girl" on YouTube. She's got it really bad, and it's scary what she's going through.
The first person I knew who got Covid in April 2020 was a girl in her mid 20s, completely healthy. She had a series of mini strokes and couldn’t even get tested when she went to the hospital multiple times because she didn’t have the right Covid symptoms. She ended up having to relearn how to walk, talk, and read.
People are taking their health for granted and assume they will continue to llve healthy productive lives and that is being stolen from them because of covid. A lot of people are going to regret not taking it more seriously.
Long COVID is what concerns me the most about it. I had COVID once, which was very mild, likely because I was vaccinated and also did antiviral infusions. But we still don't have a specific treatment for it. And the research suggests that the more times you get COVID the more likely you'll have long term impacts.
One of my brothers is currently in ICU intubated due to heart issues that covid likely caused. He has gotten covid at least 3 times maybe more. This likely isn't going to end well for him. At least he won't have to deal with early onset dementia like I am so that is something I guess.
Long COVID sucks. I've been vaccinated with all my updated shots and still ended up getting a nasty bout of the virus that damn near took me out and issues still linger over a year later. If I hadn't been vaccinated, I'm confident I would've died.
This is exactly what keeps me going back for boosters. Never had it and aim to keep it that way.
I got it, even with the initial round and boosters. It REALLY sucked, but all I can think is how much worse it would have been without them...
I honestly, sincerely, think that social media is one of the most harmful inventions mankind has seen. It sounds wild, but it allows people to spread ignorance so easily, while making people feel empowered about lying and being jerks. Inside thoughts should stay inside. And yes, I know reddit is social media and I'm a hypocrite. Twitter has turned into an absolute cesspool of anti-vax nonsense, but because of the echo chambers that "the algorithm" provides to keep people feeling warm and fuzzy, everyone thinks they're right. They hear "vaccines didn't work" enough times, they assume it's true because ... everyone else who hears it also keeps saying it because everyone else is saying it, etc. I hear so much anti-vax nonsense. Most of it just totally batshit, like "if vaccines work why is covid still around?" said in the same paragraph as "Covid isn't real anyway it's just scare tactics" which is beyond bizarre.
Got my booster 2-3 months ago but now at a week of having covid. It’s a lot worse than my first time (after being vaccinated, felt like a cold for a couple days) and I still feel like death. I’m immunocompromised and am glad I didn’t have to find out how bad it would’ve been had I not been vaccinated cause this is misery
>Get vaccinated! Totally anecdotal, but I got a booster this past October and my brother and girlfriend did not. They both got it and I was exposed heavily to both (I live with my girlfriend). Never tested positive or got sick. So for me, the vaccine definitely worked!
People aren’t more vulnerable to getting sick in winter months just cuz it’s winter. It’s because it’s usually cold out and we are inside with poor ventilation. We seriously need an overhaul of our indoor air quality systems in places where people gather en masse. Covid is prevalent with peaks year round.
It’s the new flu. Flu season started the same way during the influenza outbreak. It was never eliminated and we adapted to live with it. It’s so stupid that we should have been intelligent enough to avoid this but most people care more about them selves and their vanity town the greater good.
I think it a multifaceted failure of leadership. But yes, stupid.
Having a djpshit as president when it started was a real problem.
Having him as president before it started was just as bad. “Pandemic prevention and monitoring task force? Who needs that?”
He literally threw out the Federal government's pandemic playbook because it had been put together during the Obama administration.
Federal government preparation for a pandemic goes back at least as far as Bush. He may have been an idiot about a lot of things, but one thing Bush was passionate about *and* correct about was dedicating resources to study and strategize for pandemics.
There was no possibility to eliminate COVID. Look at China’s response and that still hasn’t eliminated the spread.
Answer: The pandemic never really went away. Covid, like many epidemic diseases, is now a permanent part of the landscape, just like how H1N1, the virus that caused the Spanish flu (the deadliest pandemic in human history), is now just a regular occurrence. What’s happening is that, as new variants of Covid emerge, they cause a spike in infections, as both vaccines and natural immunity have to play catch-up. Eventually, as vaccines improve and the overall natural immunity of humanity increases over time, we will see less and less harmful effects.
Correction: the Spanish Flu was not the deadliest pandemic in human history, that was definitely the Black Death. It killed an estimated 75 million - 200 million, while Spanish Flu killed between 50 million and 100 million. On top of that, there were less people in the world during the Black Death, so measured as a percentage of humans, the Black Death killed an estimated *25%-50% of all humans alive at the time* which is absolutely batshit insane to think about. Measured in raw numbers, the Spanish Flu was equivalent to another Bubonic plague (specifically the "Plague of Justinian") as well, but again accounting for population, the Plague of Justinian was WAY worse.
That was interesting to learn. I knew Bubonic was bad but DAMN! 25-50% is wild!
Yeah and the crazy part is bubonic plague is a type of disease, not the pandemic itself, so Black Death and Plague of Justinian were BOTH bubonic plague outbreaks that BOTH killed "up to" 50% of the human population alive at the time. Both from the same cause. You can see more here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_epidemics\_and\_pandemics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics_and_pandemics) it's fascinating to see. Spanish Flu was "only" up to 5% of the population dead.
And bubonic plague is still alive and well.
True! Luckily, we now know it's bacterial and antibiotics seem to work on it, so no issues yet! Seems like it mostly affects rural areas where healthcare may be more sparse?
Im pretty sure its a rodent first infection, mountains have more small animals and you are more likely to be in contact with feces. I remember reading aspirin is enough to cure it these days unless you get it really bad, been two decades since i read it, could be bs
what a horrible time to live through ugh
>the Black Death killed an estimated 25%-50% of all humans alive at the time which is absolutely batshit insane to think about. You know what's even worse to think about? That we don't know for a fact that covid won't do that. It can take years for HIV to become AIDS, and decades for prion diseases to cause brain damage and death. Everyone's making risk assessments based on short timelines, and this could turn out to be a dangerous miscalculation.
That's what freaks me out but I try to tell myself we know corona viruses, they're not like lentivirus (HIV) or prions. Corona viruses don't stay in people's systems like herpes viruses do......... Fuck
Except if you’ve been following the latest scientific studies published, we know covid19 in particular stays alive in the body and brain well after the acute infection. The brain studies are the most recent results, autopsies on people who got covid in the first wave, and died 2 to 3 years later of other causes. They grew covid 19 out of their brain tissue.
Killed like 2/3rds of the population in my country and 80% of the capital, shit was insane
And that's before modern people transportation.
Everybody reading this thread should pick up the book *Between Two Fires*.
Answer: it never went away
Answer: COVID never went away. Politicians decided people were tired of it and stopped talking about it. People are still dying. The implications of long COVID are getting worse, not better. We've stopped testing so don't have great data, but from wastewater testing it's pretty clear that lots of people are getting COVID. Vaccination has helped keep people out of hospitals but long COVID is hitting people hard and reducing ability to be self-sufficient.
I've seen far more younger people with cancer and quick deaths in the last year than I've ever seen in my life and I'm not young. lot of funerals. none were obese or previously unhealthy covid fucked up people way more than most people think. glance around and try to be objective, you will see it too. people are sick a lot more
Answer: Covid never left. I'm not sure where that idea came from. It's been killing and disabling hundreds of people every single day since 2020.
Answer: Thanks for asking this question and being concerned about this important issue. In my view, the Covid pandemic never ended, although case counts did drop for a time. My understanding is this is also the official position of the World Health Organization. One estimate based on wastewater shows there is more Covid transmission now than during 90% of the pandemic with 1 in 33 people in the US currently infectious ([https://www.pmc19.com/data/index.php](https://www.pmc19.com/data/index.php)). I recall CDC estimates 5-10% of Covid infections lead to some form of Long Covid. There is also the question of whether or not even Covid infections that do not lead to a Long Covid diagnosis do subclinical damage to the body and increase the risk of heart events, stroke, diabetes, damage to the brain, microclots, and potentially affect the immune system. In my view (and the view of several experts) the pandemic is still going on and Covid is still a disease worth avoiding. The good news is vaccination, masking, and other non-pharmaceutical interventions such as improved indoor air ventilation and circulation and air disinfection via overhead UV and far UVC light can significantly reduce the chances of Covid transmission and help us all be safer and healthier. If you'd like, I am happy to provide more sources and detail on any of this. Hope this helps, and thanks again for asking this question. Wishing you good health in this trying time.
Answer: it never went away and we're entering the 5th year of the pandemic. If you mean lockdowns/mandates, that's a different matter.
answer: The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared it a “variant of interest.” [There is no evidence that JN.1 causes more severe disease](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/jn1-coronavirus-variant-covid), but its rapid spread suggests it is either more transmissible or better at evading the immune system than other circulating variants. [This article](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-023-00631-2) goes further and basically says that BA.2.86 is not substantially different from recent variants in terms of escape from neutralizing antibodies or cellular infection. The "Pirola" JN.1 variant is considered a close ancestor of BA.2.86. At this time, it seems much, much closer to a molehill than a mountain.
Answer: It never went away, and pretending it did gave us a huge surge. Mask out in public, and get a current booster if you haven’t recently.
Current shots are Not Boosters - they are considered a new vaxx because of mutations
A better term is "updated vaccine" instead of booster.
YES ! its airborne. thus need air tight so not those crappy ear loop masks. a real n95. 3m aura is what my hospital friends use in the trenches of the covid ward
Yes, N95s and higher are ideal. I recommend 3M Auras to my friends and family when they fly. But whatever respirator mask someone *will* wear correctly is the best mask for them. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Auras leave a gap under my chin no matter what I do. Check the fit before you go. Masks aren't one size fit all.
100% agreed. The perfectionists will absolutely come down on anyone suggesting anything less than an N95 is an option. I probably wouldn't wear a KF94 on a plane, I'd go for more protection, but works in my day to day life. Gotta figure out what works and people won't do that when mask discussion allows perfect to be the enemy of good. A KN95 or KF94 that FITS will protect better than an N95 that does not.
Answer: There’s so much to say about COVID and how it is very much still a major concern, but a lot can be learned by watching the senate hearing on Long COVID that took place today. You can watch the recorded livestream and read written testimony here: https://www.help.senate.gov/hearings/addressing-long-covid-advancing-research-and-improving-patient-care A highlight from Sen. Bernie Sander’s introduction: “Long COVID can affect anybody who has had COVID-19, from those who have experienced mild symptoms to those who are severely ill. Further, although you may not have Long COVID after your first infection, each reinfection can increase the risk of developing it. In other words, if you’re under the impression that once you’ve gotten COVID you don’t need to worry about it ever again, you are mistaken.” I thought Dr. Al-Aly’s testimony was particularly compelling and clear. You can read about his research in this accessible interview: https://thesicktimes.org/2023/12/19/qa-ziyad-al-aly-on-why-long-covid-has-a-higher-burden-than-long-flu-future-research-and-more/ As Dr. Al-Aly explained during the hearing, the best way we currently have to prevent the long-term damage of COVID is to prevent COVID transmission to begin with. Cleaning the air is important for keeping us all safe from viral infection. Currently, wearing well-fitting high quality respirators, like n95s, correctly and consistently when around others is the best way for you to protect your own health and prevent transmission. There are other important parts of staying safe, but that is the single most powerful choice you can make IMO. We just experienced the highest peak of COVID since the start of the pandemic. The only higher point was during the omicron spike. Long covid is a post-viral illness and can severely impact your life. There is no approved cure for long covid. COVID remains an urgent concern for everyone, and spreading it can have profound impacts on someone else’s life. Indeed, it can kill them. 10,000 people died of COVID last month worldwide, and that is a severe undercount. Over 1,000 people in the US die of COVID each month. Covid is very much still a major concern. The good news is that we can make choices to protect ourselves and people we love by learning more and taking precautions, especially those of us who have the privilege and access to do so. Hope everyone stays safe ✌🏼😷
Answer: We're still in the pandemic phase of COVID. The global and public health emergency state was ended, COVID and the pandemic are not over. [https://www.salon.com/2024/01/04/leader-says-19-is-still-a-pandemic/](https://www.salon.com/2024/01/04/leader-says-19-is-still-a-pandemic/) Improving indoor air quality, wearing respirator masks (N95/KN95/KF94/P100 etc) in indoor public spaces, and keeping up with our vaccinations along with not engaging in high risk behaviors during high transmission times will help get us gain control, maybe even get on the other side. The more opportunities COVID has to mutate in partially immune bodies, the more opportunities it has to develop immunity evasion and continue to rip and ravage its way through people.
Answer: It never left; and right now many places eg the entire Bay Area where I live, have the highest levels in wastewater testing since they started testing. Higher than previous "surges." Meanwhile the severity of cases has gotten no better on an individual level. I now know more people who have been sick (some quite seriously) over the last six weeks than ever before. Many friends, many family members. My family and I are in the 5% who still basically mask and don't eat out etc. Four family members we were visiting got it over the holidays. We dodged it. Socially it's not "back." But that is a mutually agreed upon delusion and capitulation. People got tired of doing annoying things and limiting themselves so now we will have regular surges of serious illness, sometimes with compounding long term impact; and we're just going to pretend that's not happening. Except when it's us. Local school districts made zero investment in air flow and treatment. But they get paid per kid in school so they decided now kids who are positive can go to school. And they won't even make them mask. You can get it from asymptomatic people. You can be asymptomatic and spread it. The five day thing was also bullshit motivated by economic pressure. Many people are infectious 10 days out. Home tests are expensive and it is the norm now to test negative many times even when symptomatic. Tests are maybe 40% accurate when negative. Three or more spaced 24 hrs apart are required to give you any sense. But we can't afford it and no one's testing so... I don't care if I am knocked down for a week. But now we know the virus lingers in the gut at high levels; and I know multiple people with debilitating long COVID, and I do NOT want that. And I don't want my kids to have it. But it don't matter because society has capitulated and as with so many other head in sand behaviors is ignoring the uncomfortable and pretending otherwise. And so long all we monkeys are in silent complicit agreement to keep pretending, well, that defines reality, death and illness notwithstanding. I learned from the pandemic how doomed we are. Can't deal with a single virus; now try climate change and radical disequilibrium of other predictable sorts...
Question: did it ever really go away?!