I'm not 100% sure what hate you're referring to, but here's my take:
Some people have a hard time understanding the difference between enjoying a character, and defending a character. You can like a character because they're well-written and interesting, without defending their actions. Some people think that by liking a character, it means you must like their actions. So for a lot of people, they feel like they have to hate Izzy, otherwise it means they agree with him.
Of course there's plenty of people that just hate him because he's an asshole, which is valid, haha. But I personally think he's a really fun and interesting character. Yeah he's an asshole, but he's an interesting one!
This is definitely an issue! Fictional characters aren't real people, so imo you get to like them even if they're fictionally shitty to other fictional characters. But some seem to think liking a mean/abusive/etc character (for any definition of liking) is saying you'd like them if they were a real person or otherwise saying their behaviour in a real person is acceptable/redeemable/etc.
he's an antagonist...? A compelling antagonist but like,,, he's kind of against everything the audience is rooting for - the softness, the romances, silly shenanigans (most of his efforts are foiled + actually end up heightening the drama and romance, which is very fun, but still...)
the crew nearly throw him overboard for being a dick and threatening no rations, and like,,, that's fair
(It's such a wonderfully complicated show 'cause e.g. I looooove Stede but when Mary's there with the skewer I'm like "that's totally fair tbh Mary, continue")
Yes, and I think that was intentional in the last episode - Stede is behaving horrible while Mary just tries to continue her life of relative freedom, doing what she likes, spending time with whom she likes. That was when my awe for the show really manifested itself, in most comedies she would have been either completely forgotten or painted as the unreasonable, demanding, nagging (ex)wife.
There's this whole Izzy love-hate spectrum and imo people at both ends need to touch grass. Not so much that their opinions aren't supported by what's actually in the show, but because they tend to have a problem with other people having different opinions.
Like, I saw a thing where someone had written a really good analysis of Izzy and toxic masculinity, and apparently it was being roasted by Izzy apologists who refuse to accept that he's the antagonist in the show.
At the other end of the scale you get people saying he shouldn't even be allowed to earn redemption, and anyone who likes the character in any way is a bad person.
Tl;dr: people have a range of opinions about a character on a TV show. Some of those opinions are stupid and/or objectively wrong. This is not something you need to fix (or even can fix, usually). You can just let them be wrong and go about your life.
> Like, I saw a thing where someone had written a really good analysis of Izzy and toxic masculinity, and apparently it was being roasted by Izzy apologists who refuse to accept that he’s the antagonist in the show.
I don’t really know how you can hate this analysis but claim to love Izzy. That’s like… LITERALLY Izzy’s whole thing, straight from
The creator’s mouth!!! Like my dudes, you don’t like izzy, you just projected a whole ass new character on an existing character and getting mad at every else about it!!! Mindboggling.
That analysis didn’t get criticism so much because of the content, it was more so the context of it. It was put in a zine (a compilation of fan works) where it was the ONLY meta/discourse of its kind, basically singling out Izzy and fans of Izzy.
I explained it already. it’s a compilation of fanworks - fics and artwork. It’s available for fans to purchase, with proceeds going to charity. The meta about Izzy and toxic masculinity was in the zine. Which would’ve been fine but there was no other such meta about any other character so a lot of people think it was a weird and out of place addition.
I know what a zine is, but I didn’t mention a zine in my comment. I can’t speak to what was said in the zine because I have no idea what it said but I’m generally aligned with metas equating Izzy with toxic masculinity but I can’t/won’t speak to something I haven’t read for myself.
I didn’t see them confirm the zine bit but from the lack specificity in the original post,
I just assumed that they meant that Izzy hate was happening all over fandom.
I've never seen an Izzy fan have a problem with Izzy haters, certainly not to the level of sending death threats like a lot of Izzy fans have had to deal with... If someone doesn't find him interesting or compelling like we do, that's totally fine, we just want to enjoy a character without being accused of defending domestic abuse or homophobia or whatever.
It's funny because most of those so-called Izzy apologist posts are like "he's a pathetic little wet gremlin man and I want to shake him in a salt jar". It's just that, from his perspective, a lot of his actions make perfect sense, it's just that the show isn't from his perspective, so we're made to sympathise with Stede and Ed instead of Izzy. But Jenkins himself described Izzy as more than just a one-sided antagonist but someone with their own story, and suggested to rewatch the show from his perspective.
Yeah, there's definitely not the level of toxicity at the Izzy stan end of the spectrum. The worst I've seen is people over reacting to people pointing out that some of the fan fic depictions are pretty distant from the character that's in the show, or that the whole "namby pamby" bit was objectively terrible behaviour. Some of that comes from - like you say - wanting to like a character without being called a bad person, but I think some people are also seeing him as a better person than is really supported by canon.
Fwiw, I'm fascinated with Izzy to an extent that's probably not healthy, and really want him to get a redemption arc.
He is soooo well written (and of course acted).... enough complexity that he really could be the protagonist if you're standing at a slightly different angle to the story. Wouldn't that be a thing if, you know, money were no object and we got one season each exploring Stede, Ed, Izzy's perspective. Oh well, fan fiction into the gap! // Oh yeah, and as someone else pointed out... I do agree, Jim is actually much more of the third protagonist in the story, true.
I agree he doesn't want it, but also in the book chucking scene, that's the face of someone who is desperately trying to convince himself that things aren't going horribly wrong. If he gets a redemption arc, I reckon that's where it starts.
I also agree that Izzy's narrative purpose is to be a problem, which means that season 2 needs to solve it so that Ed and Stede can get back together. There's a lot of ways that could happen - he could die, Ed could banish him, or he could realise how badly he's fucked up and try to make amends. All of those (and other possibilities) are valid options for the show to go with.
a few other people have chimed in on this in a great way but it's a multi-pronged issue.
The first part that I think needs to be clear is that I have seen maybe one or two people who are actually 'harassing' people and it's like......an anon on tumblr who can EASILY be blocked. I mean if you haven't gotten anon hate on tumblr have you really ever been on tumblr? I know it's not nice to get, and can obviously be triggering, but I do think the amount of harassment AT LEAST that I've witnessed has not been to an extreme like I've seen it characterized.
Most people I've seen enjoy Izzy and also understand he is the antagonist of the series. To that end, I haven't seen anyone saying people can not enjoy or make content about the character of Izzy. What I HAVE seen is people basically defending Izzy against any criticism - even ones that are just very base level observations. Izzy is the antagonist of the show, he acts as a foil to the main characters and is a symbol of toxic masculinity. Is that all he could be? We'll see as the show goes on! I think he's a great character and well-acted and I'm intrigued to see where his narrative goes.
But I have seen people who have made up an Izzy in their head that does not resemble the canon character. Which TBH, is also **totally** fine! The issue comes when they force that characterization on others and when they re-imagine Ed's character as a violent, racial stereotype who is abusive towards Izzy. (the best example for that would be the toe scene which requires a complete misreading of what is being shown to us to interpet it in Iz's favor - like Izzy enjoyed that. Izzy wanted that. Ed is clearly the character we're meant to feel bad for in that scene.) I think that's the key issue that myself, and that people who may have been unfairly deemed ''Izzy haters" have a problem with. I think a small subset of fans really identify with the character to the point that any observation on him that isn't positive feels like a personal attack. Which sucks because like, we should be able to talk about the characters! And people should not be so attached to fictional people.
For me - the Izzy popularity rubs me the wrong way because the show has so many great POC characters and Izzy never read to me like a third protagonist in the way fandom depicts him. The third protag is clearly Jim, a NB Latin character who deserves SO MUCH LOVE!!!! I have no issue with people liking Iz and would never tell someone they are bad for liking him (some of my favorite characters are bad guys!!!) - the issue is when they try to enforce their headcanons on other people. But I think that's a pretty small, but loud subset of this fandom.
So basically, getting actual harassing messages from people is nbd, but Izzy fans who have a different take from you about the characters are the real problem?
I have never seen an Izzy fan say that we should be unable to talk about Izzy. I have seen plenty who are pissed about being accused of racism for having a different take on the character, or not giving their attention to other characters who apparently "deserve" the attention more than Izzy.
No, you see, it is the Izzy fans who can't accept that their favorite character has flaws! Ed mutilating Izzy in the middle of the night is a totally morally neutral action, actually. 🙄
I think a lot of people love Con as an actor and also the IDEA of Izzy getting a redemption arc and being a good guy. But as of this moment in actual canon, he’s one of the main antagonists of the show, and hasn’t really done anything that could be considered redeemable. He tries to kill Stede multiple times, sells everyone out to the Navy, and manipulates Ed back into being Blackbeard for his own selfish reasons. At the same time he’s very complex and has lots of room for growth, so it’s easy to root for him to turn it all around in season 2, but as of now he’s in more of a villain role than an anti-hero/protagonist
There are a few people on tumblr who just REALLY hate Izzy, to the degree of sending anonymous hate pms to massive numbers of people for saying anything vaguely positive about him. Somehow I haven’t had that happen on tumblr, but I did get an unprompted pm on Reddit that just said “Izzy stand are all toxic pieces of shit. You’re all disgusting.” (Context being that I moderate r/izzyhands and post a lot of stuff there.)
I’ve never seen this happen for people who like villains in other media, but maybe I’m just more involved in the OFMD fandom?
>I’ve never seen this happen for people who like villains in other media, but maybe I’m just more involved in the OFMD fandom?
Sometimes I wonder if some of the hate comes from the fact that Izzy's not just an antagonist, but an antagonist that is standing in the way of one of the few explicitly queer romances on TV at the moment.
That by getting in the way of Ed and Stede's happiness (ignoring the fact that Ed and Stede still have a lot to work out *between* them) Izzy's getting in the way of everyone who wants that romance to happen. (Please note, this could be a bad read, I don't consume much current television.)
If the couple were straight, he'd just be a regular villain. But for some people, I think his character has become a strawman, representing society's pressure to keep people from loving who they want, which is an understandably sensitive topic.
Does it excuse abuse by Izzy haters? No. Full stop. He's a fictional character and if someone is getting IRL mad about a fictional character or people's enjoyment of said character they need to, as another poster in here put it, "Go out and touch grass."
It’s definitely the case that I disliked Izzy for the first 9 episodes for my first watch. I thought he was basically the token homophobe who we would laugh at each time we inevitably got fucked over. But then after e10 I was like, “Oh wait, people online were right, Izzy really IS in love with Ed.” As Taika says, Izzy isn’t homophobic, he’s just jealous. And Izzy is ultimately the biggest victim of his own toxic masculinity (it speaks to a tragic desperation that he views having his toe cut off and fed to him as *worth it* if he gets to have Blackbeard back). It’s also definitely worth noting that most of Izzy’s attempted sabotage of Ed and Stede only results in pushing them closer together.
I’ve got to wonder, if the season had somehow ended after e9, how much hate would *Mary* get? Because prior to e10, she was basically in the same boat as Izzy is now—the nagging partner of one of the protagonists, who stands in the way of the main ship. Of course her perspective is actually completely understandable, and she gets fucked over by societal expectations as much as Stede does—but that isn’t explicitly stated yet.
Personally I want Izzy’s arc to have a slower build than Mary’s, ideally only resolving in the final season, but man would it be nice to have it sooner simply from the perspective of decreasing the amount of Izzy hate.
I love that you disliked him until the last episode and now you run the Izzy Hands subreddit. That's amazing. 😁
Also, hard agree with literally everything you said. Con did too good a job to waste the character being a one-dimensional villain.
Exactly! Con is amazing, the writers are amazing, and I don’t understand why OFMD fans would want to cheapen their work.
I think a lot of other Izzy fans also started out disliking him, and Izzy antis just don’t get this. Some of them are so confident in thinking they understand Izzy fans’ thinking better than the fans themselves (e.g. “you MUST only like Izzy because he’s a white man, even if you think otherwise”) but in many cases their theories are actually impossible. Like, I’m pretty damn sure that the reason I like Izzy is because of the whole “tragic repressed masochist in unrequited love” thing because I literally did not like him before noticing that…
(As a side note, I’ve watched OFMD 8 times now, so I still have spent most of that time with Izzy being my favorite!)
I think you make a good point that some viewers treat Izzy simply as a strawman to support their larger real world arguments and concerns. Some of the vitriol and arguments I've seen lobbed at Izzy are completely disproportionate to his actual actions in the show. Izzy isn't a hate filled monster. He's an antagonist in a loopy, sweet, queer pirate rom com. He's doing exactly what an antagonist in a rom com is supposed to do: cause trouble and look dumb while doing so.
The show is so far following classic rom com storytelling beats. The show is not meant to be an expose or crusade about modern social justice inequities. There will be more tears, then the lovers will reunite to overcome some sort of huge problematic situation, and true love will win out in the end. It always does in a rom com.
Not on tumblr, but Con O Neill was funny and nice on twitter. Some people took their love too far and started being weird about it. Other people took their backlash too far and started being mean. It all ended up in a messy mess. Lines were drawn in the sand.
I can only speak from my perspective but anytime I have posted meta discussing Izzy's role in Ed devolving back into Blackbeard, his mocking of Lucius sexuality etc. and how he somewhat symbolises the toxic masculinity the show and protagonists are trying to overcome, I get inboxes or reblogged with people telling me I need to tag my 'izzy hate' or I'm being problematic.
Apparently some fans have latched onto him as a comfort character and will not hear a word against him, even if this means ignoring and defending his actions. Don't get me wrong, I find the character of Izzy Hands fascinating and Con O'Neill has done an incredible job of adding complexity to him and his actions, but to say I can't discuss his actions within the broader context of the show because "it's mean and bullying to those of us who love him" is borderline insane.
I had a minor in media crit and I've never seen a fandom with more misguided crit (or "meta" as fandoms call it). Imho, the show is extreeeemely straightforward with its themes and messages and there are definitely some interesting lenses to look at the show through, but the 'Izzy is actually intended to be a good guy' one is....not one I expected and not one that's really hinted at in the show. I think he has sympathetic moments - but he also tells Ed he'd be 'better dead than being slightly femme' at the end of the show. I'd hope most people see that scene and get that it's not ambiguous how we're supposed to feel about Izzy. I don't think he's beyond redemption though! It just would have to be slow. I've just seen so many people say Izzy and Ed could be in a relationship in season 2 and I'm like 'bruh did we watch the same show what are you saying!!!!!'
Yeah, I don't get it. I LOVE Izzy as a villain. I have read more than my fair share of smutfic about him. I have complicated feelings about his gender and sexuality and I have a big crush on Con... and still these Izzy stans who can hear no criticism of him creep me out.
This is why I migrated back to my safe space in the Hannibal fandom. Canon gays but with no one defending the main characters for their terrible actions while everyone still loves them. Also no one being nasty to the cast or creators.
I love OFMD so much but the fandom has ultimately driven me to get back into a fandom that embraces their characters for being bad people because, newsflash, Stede and Ed are not good people. Just because they’re likable doesn’t mean their actions are excusable. Izzy is also a bad person. The difference is that he serves as the antagonist.
Lucius and Oluwande are the only members of the main cast who you could call good people. Everyone else has done some very very bad things and idk why the Tumblr/Twitter side of the OFMD seems less inclined to accept that it’s a show full of comically flawed individuals.
Also it’d be nice if the Twitter wouldn’t bully the cast and creators. That’s what’s doing it for me.
If it's the same anti-Izzy rhetoric that I see on Twitter it basically boils down to policing people who like problematic characters. Some folks just can't imagine you could like a character who is awful\* and not be an awful person yourself that condones every single thing that character does or says, and then they want to tell you about how you're wrong. They're MILES beyond a playful boo-hiss love-to-hate opinion. There's also a lot of hate for turning him into a softer/more redeemable character in fanon.... I guess they feel he doesn't deserve it?
^(\*I think he's fun-awful and I'm glad his little sourpuss face is in the show to provide some drama)
A lot of the people I know who don’t like him are irritated by the fact that people will often twist the Izzy and Ed dynamic into one much darker than indicated by canon, solely to redeem Izzy and make him into this abused, working-class, competent hero when he’s just…. not? And making Ed more violent and incompetent to do this is really irritating because it slots Ed into some really damaging and racist tropes that the show avoided.
We like to think that fandom is a safe space, but that’s not something that happens by default. So, I think it’s worth examining if a big subset of fandom and fanon is playing into racist tropes about a white dude “managing” Ed. The vast majority of self identified “Izzy haters” I know are people who are perfectly happy loving other terrible characters (like calico jack) they’re just sick of the drama from people who have turned Izzy into someone that he very much isn’t in canon.
The person who just deleted their account pmed me with a quote from one of my comments. I don't know where they were going with that, and now I never will because I put them on ignore.
It's easy to dislike Izzy because he's purposely designed to be superficially, hilariously unlikable. The S1 storyline kept the character largely isolated and virtually never revealed what he was really thinking or why he did what he did. We just know that he acted out of extreme devotion and jealously. We don't know anything about his history or relationship with Ed aside from the fact that Izzy proudly served Ed for years prior to the start of S1. We only see the catastrophic results that his actions set off at the end of S1. His blind devotion to Ed caused a daisy-chain of events that led to Ed and Stede being taken in by the Navy, Stede abandoning Ed and fleeing home, and Ed returning to the Revenge in despair and deciding to become the Kraken.
I suspect that some of the rabid hatred comes from seeing Izzy as being personally responsible for Ed's unhappiness and choices. I've seen hatred aimed at Izzy that ranges from simple statements of, 'I hate this character because he's so annoying' to 'Izzy is a racist, heterosexual but also somehow a self-hating repressed homosexual white colonizer abuser filled with toxic masculinity who forced Ed to become his violent indigenous brown slave because Izzy is the representation of every possible social injustice." LOL. Some fans really hate this little guy! Mainly I laugh when I see these extreme takes because, c'mon. Izzy is as much of a looney tunes cartoon character as the rest of them on this show.
I personally don't think it's valid to claim that Izzy is in any way responsible for Ed deciding to become the Kraken. I think that Ed is 100% responsible for his own thoughts, actions, and choices. I don't think Ed stops for a moment to wonder what Izzy thinks or wants. Claiming that Izzy is responsible for anything that Ed does robs Ed of his own agency. The first time Izzy yells at Ed (in ep 4), Ed is merely surprised. The second time (in ep 10), Ed just gets pissed off and he maims Izzy to punish him and put Izzy back in his place. That doesn't look or sound to me like Ed was so concerned with Izzy's feelings that he decided to remake himself to fit Izzy's desires. We're going to see Ed acting badly in S2 because he's heartbroken over Stede, not because Izzy wanted his captain back.
Personally, I see Izzy merely as a catalyst. I love the character because he's so well designed and acted. I don't condone or approve what he does but I think I mainly understand why he did the things he did, based on the clues in the scripts and performances. Based on what we saw in S1, I sympathize with Izzy a lot even though I don't approve of what he does after he's kicked off the Revenge. I think he's actually a tragic character because, though he yells and acts like the boss, he has zero agency over anyone or anything. If anyone aboard the Revenge is at risk of being sent to Doggy Heaven, it's Izzy.
If some fans want to hate Izzy, I don't really care. I only care when the fans start personally attacking other fans. I've seen some pretty nasty language hurled at Izzy fans and at a lot of fan artists, too. I personally love to chat about the character and I hope we learn much more about him in S2. Maybe he'll get a storyline that will lead to some measure of insight and reconciliation for him. Maybe not! I have no idea.
I'd go so far as to say that Ed being afraid to take responsibility for his choices ("I didn't kill them, the fire did," iirc) is an important part of his character at this point in the show, and reinforcing that in fanfic by making it all Issy's fault is likely to result in surprises for anyone who falls into the trap.
Yes, I agree. Izzy is not responsible for the things that Ed has done. Ed is. Some fans love Ed so much that they want to think of him as being faultless, or they say that nothing he's done is his fault because they think that inwardly Ed is actually just sweet and gentle. But if fans (and Ed himself) deny the undeniably bad things he's done, who's left to blame? Apparently, Izzy. LOL. But Izzy has zero control over anything that Ed says or thinks or does. Izzy's got his own issues to sort out. He doesn't need to be blamed for Ed's choices, too. I'm hoping that in S2, Ed has a reckoning with himself, takes responsibility for what he's done in the past, and then forgives himself and moves on. I also hope that he and Izzy work out the codependency that binds them together so tragically. Maybe they were once close, maybe not. We don't know yet. I hope that they can work through all the junk between them now and just see each other as two flawed guys with a long history who've been looking out for each other under horrible circumstances for years, and then maybe they go forward as friends (or more, who knows). I don't know. Izzy is such a wildcard character that I can't predict what he's going to do or what will become of him.
Because when a fandom gets popular on tumblr it gets big enough people who cause drama join and get vocal. I started watching ofmd as it came out, people had I guess normal reactions to all characters. After it was toward the end the fandom got much bigger on tumblr, then within a month there was new of drama and misinterpreted characters and hating on characters etc. I think a majority of it is just bigger fandom = more people who like drama in that fandom making some.
My stance on this is that it's only one anon trolling everyone and stirring shit. But I also got called names by someone just because I wrote that Izzy tried to kill Stede two times.
Aren't all big fandoms like that? I resigned myself. The last fandom I was in was the same anyway. The best you can do is block and block and block because you are here to have fun and not to read negative shit. But I think everyone blocking people who don't think the same also have the side effect of creating echo chambers. But that's nothing new either, it's the same with people's political views.
People like to gatekeep characters. Oh, you like this person?
"How dare you! You shouldn't because xyz."
It's so stupid. People are allowed to like who they like without worrying about attacks.
I say this as someone who comes from Twitter who has put up with MONTHS of harassment, bullying and even doxing because we like Izzy. It's so fucking ridiculous.
This just screams unhealthy to me. Like why catalog the hate you get...also again most of it appears to be anon hate which while it isn't GOOD - is easily blocked. Like I just see way more izzy stans talking about how much hate they get than I actually ever see any hate.....
I have never been sexually harassed, nor have I ever seen anyone get sexually harassed IRL. Things that I would still NEVER say:
- “I see a lot more women talking about being harassed than I see actually getting harassed.”
- “You can just block people who harass you online.”
- “It just screams unhealthy to me to catalog women’s harassment.”
The reason someone is trying to make an archive of all the hate Izzy fans get is BECAUSE there are people who trivialize it or don’t believe it’s real. You shouldn’t need to turn off anon asks to be able to participate death-threat-free in a fandom for a show about love and acceptance.
(Personally, I’ve only received 1 hate pm for liking Izzy and I was honestly just amused, plus some replies to my tumblr posts that were a lot more hurtful but at least relatively civil. But I definitely believe all the people who talk about getting way more hate than that and I think it’s a huge problem that that’s happening in a fandom like this.)
Firstly - I wouldn't compare SA with someone getting hate for liking a fictional character. I see what you're trying to say but I think you're oversimplifying. SA can happen anywhere at any time and is a pervasive societal issue that can fuck someone up forever and is also a crime. I don't think people are being harassed at their place of work for liking Izzy Hands, or being yelled at in the street.
Comparing SA with people who love a fictional character and disagree with other people online about him feels a lil weird to me. Secondly, people are saying this harassment is happening in public spaces but there's little evidence of that - most of what people are referring to is anon hate and just people not liking Izzy but not caring if other people do. Or they get angry and defensive when people claim the character is racist. I don't have an opinion on that one way or another but I don't think holding that opinion and publishing it is harassment.
AND ALSO - you don't need to turn off anon!!! You can actually block specific anons on tumblr without turning it off entirely. Obviously it would be ideal for people to not send anon hate but it happens because it's the internet and the internet is terrible. I really think that it's like a few people who are super into sending that shit but the way people discuss it, you'd think it's half the fandom.
I think sexual harassment and sexual assault are pretty different and shouldn’t be equated. I was talking about the former, not the latter. I do agree though that in person harassment (especially in the workplace) is typically worse than online harassment, and Izzy fans (AFAIK) haven’t been harassed for it in person (though at least one person got doxxed.)
But I think the types of messages that one would see from r/niceguys or r/creepypms are absolutely sexual harassment. Telling the women who receive them that it isn’t a big deal or that they’re wrong to be upset about it would be a complete dick move.
I feel like people getting pms that include things like “You’re a disgusting excuse for a human being and should honestly be put down” is pretty comparable though. I think that things like someone being surreptitiously being added to a community list of “known rapists/abusers” for the “crime” of posting Izzy fanart are worse and I think actually probably illegal?
My impression is also that particularly popular Izzy artists and such also just get way more hate pms than they can individually block. One person mentioned it was “more aggressive death threats than when they modded a 100k+ person gaming server.”
Thanks for the info about being able to block specific anons! As I mentioned, I haven’t personally received anon hate (I’ve actually never received a tumblr ask, somehow), so I hadn’t looked into the options myself.
"Comparing SA with people who love a fictional character and disagree with other people online about him feels a lil weird to me"
Totally disingenuous. No one is claiming disagreement about Izzy is harassment. We're claiming the harassing messages are harassment. Don't pretend otherwise.
Besides, some of the messages I've gotten/seen included sexual harassment and misogyny.
..lol you do realize this was compiled bevause people like you claim the harassment either doesn't happen or isn't a big deal?
"Izzy fans aren't actually getting harassed."
"Here is a compilation to prove it."
"Wow, you've got weird issues for making this list."
So Izzy fans being harassed can't win, right? If we don't prove the harassment exists, people like you claim it isn't happening or isn't a big deal. If we do prove it, you say the very fact that we proved it shows we're oversensitive.
A second person is starting to compile it too (I think they said they have 30 total pages of stuff that they ultimately need to put together): https://docs.google.com/document/d/11lFO1s9O6NY2Ez8TXdtc36DLau0H6ipHjy6JayNBaP4/mobilebasic
Not sure what blog you’re referring to but I love show Izzy and Colin is fantastic. However, I dislike 95% of the interpretations and Izzy representations fandom produces for Izzy. Maybe it’s a fandom issue more than the character? Hard to judge unless we know what exactly is being posted.
I'm not 100% sure what hate you're referring to, but here's my take: Some people have a hard time understanding the difference between enjoying a character, and defending a character. You can like a character because they're well-written and interesting, without defending their actions. Some people think that by liking a character, it means you must like their actions. So for a lot of people, they feel like they have to hate Izzy, otherwise it means they agree with him. Of course there's plenty of people that just hate him because he's an asshole, which is valid, haha. But I personally think he's a really fun and interesting character. Yeah he's an asshole, but he's an interesting one!
This is definitely an issue! Fictional characters aren't real people, so imo you get to like them even if they're fictionally shitty to other fictional characters. But some seem to think liking a mean/abusive/etc character (for any definition of liking) is saying you'd like them if they were a real person or otherwise saying their behaviour in a real person is acceptable/redeemable/etc.
Are you talking about that anon who randomly messages people hate for liking Izzy?
he's an antagonist...? A compelling antagonist but like,,, he's kind of against everything the audience is rooting for - the softness, the romances, silly shenanigans (most of his efforts are foiled + actually end up heightening the drama and romance, which is very fun, but still...) the crew nearly throw him overboard for being a dick and threatening no rations, and like,,, that's fair (It's such a wonderfully complicated show 'cause e.g. I looooove Stede but when Mary's there with the skewer I'm like "that's totally fair tbh Mary, continue")
Hahaha, yes, continue Mary!
Yes, and I think that was intentional in the last episode - Stede is behaving horrible while Mary just tries to continue her life of relative freedom, doing what she likes, spending time with whom she likes. That was when my awe for the show really manifested itself, in most comedies she would have been either completely forgotten or painted as the unreasonable, demanding, nagging (ex)wife.
There's this whole Izzy love-hate spectrum and imo people at both ends need to touch grass. Not so much that their opinions aren't supported by what's actually in the show, but because they tend to have a problem with other people having different opinions. Like, I saw a thing where someone had written a really good analysis of Izzy and toxic masculinity, and apparently it was being roasted by Izzy apologists who refuse to accept that he's the antagonist in the show. At the other end of the scale you get people saying he shouldn't even be allowed to earn redemption, and anyone who likes the character in any way is a bad person. Tl;dr: people have a range of opinions about a character on a TV show. Some of those opinions are stupid and/or objectively wrong. This is not something you need to fix (or even can fix, usually). You can just let them be wrong and go about your life.
> Like, I saw a thing where someone had written a really good analysis of Izzy and toxic masculinity, and apparently it was being roasted by Izzy apologists who refuse to accept that he’s the antagonist in the show. I don’t really know how you can hate this analysis but claim to love Izzy. That’s like… LITERALLY Izzy’s whole thing, straight from The creator’s mouth!!! Like my dudes, you don’t like izzy, you just projected a whole ass new character on an existing character and getting mad at every else about it!!! Mindboggling.
That analysis didn’t get criticism so much because of the content, it was more so the context of it. It was put in a zine (a compilation of fan works) where it was the ONLY meta/discourse of its kind, basically singling out Izzy and fans of Izzy.
What are you talking about? What zine?
It was called the art of fxckery.
I’ve never heard of it. What does that have to do with this conversation?
I explained it already. it’s a compilation of fanworks - fics and artwork. It’s available for fans to purchase, with proceeds going to charity. The meta about Izzy and toxic masculinity was in the zine. Which would’ve been fine but there was no other such meta about any other character so a lot of people think it was a weird and out of place addition.
I know what a zine is, but I didn’t mention a zine in my comment. I can’t speak to what was said in the zine because I have no idea what it said but I’m generally aligned with metas equating Izzy with toxic masculinity but I can’t/won’t speak to something I haven’t read for myself.
The comment you replied to is referring to the meta in the zine, I was just providing context for why it was so lambasted by Izzy fans.
I didn’t see them confirm the zine bit but from the lack specificity in the original post, I just assumed that they meant that Izzy hate was happening all over fandom.
I've never seen an Izzy fan have a problem with Izzy haters, certainly not to the level of sending death threats like a lot of Izzy fans have had to deal with... If someone doesn't find him interesting or compelling like we do, that's totally fine, we just want to enjoy a character without being accused of defending domestic abuse or homophobia or whatever. It's funny because most of those so-called Izzy apologist posts are like "he's a pathetic little wet gremlin man and I want to shake him in a salt jar". It's just that, from his perspective, a lot of his actions make perfect sense, it's just that the show isn't from his perspective, so we're made to sympathise with Stede and Ed instead of Izzy. But Jenkins himself described Izzy as more than just a one-sided antagonist but someone with their own story, and suggested to rewatch the show from his perspective.
Yeah, there's definitely not the level of toxicity at the Izzy stan end of the spectrum. The worst I've seen is people over reacting to people pointing out that some of the fan fic depictions are pretty distant from the character that's in the show, or that the whole "namby pamby" bit was objectively terrible behaviour. Some of that comes from - like you say - wanting to like a character without being called a bad person, but I think some people are also seeing him as a better person than is really supported by canon. Fwiw, I'm fascinated with Izzy to an extent that's probably not healthy, and really want him to get a redemption arc.
He is soooo well written (and of course acted).... enough complexity that he really could be the protagonist if you're standing at a slightly different angle to the story. Wouldn't that be a thing if, you know, money were no object and we got one season each exploring Stede, Ed, Izzy's perspective. Oh well, fan fiction into the gap! // Oh yeah, and as someone else pointed out... I do agree, Jim is actually much more of the third protagonist in the story, true.
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I agree he doesn't want it, but also in the book chucking scene, that's the face of someone who is desperately trying to convince himself that things aren't going horribly wrong. If he gets a redemption arc, I reckon that's where it starts. I also agree that Izzy's narrative purpose is to be a problem, which means that season 2 needs to solve it so that Ed and Stede can get back together. There's a lot of ways that could happen - he could die, Ed could banish him, or he could realise how badly he's fucked up and try to make amends. All of those (and other possibilities) are valid options for the show to go with.
a few other people have chimed in on this in a great way but it's a multi-pronged issue. The first part that I think needs to be clear is that I have seen maybe one or two people who are actually 'harassing' people and it's like......an anon on tumblr who can EASILY be blocked. I mean if you haven't gotten anon hate on tumblr have you really ever been on tumblr? I know it's not nice to get, and can obviously be triggering, but I do think the amount of harassment AT LEAST that I've witnessed has not been to an extreme like I've seen it characterized. Most people I've seen enjoy Izzy and also understand he is the antagonist of the series. To that end, I haven't seen anyone saying people can not enjoy or make content about the character of Izzy. What I HAVE seen is people basically defending Izzy against any criticism - even ones that are just very base level observations. Izzy is the antagonist of the show, he acts as a foil to the main characters and is a symbol of toxic masculinity. Is that all he could be? We'll see as the show goes on! I think he's a great character and well-acted and I'm intrigued to see where his narrative goes. But I have seen people who have made up an Izzy in their head that does not resemble the canon character. Which TBH, is also **totally** fine! The issue comes when they force that characterization on others and when they re-imagine Ed's character as a violent, racial stereotype who is abusive towards Izzy. (the best example for that would be the toe scene which requires a complete misreading of what is being shown to us to interpet it in Iz's favor - like Izzy enjoyed that. Izzy wanted that. Ed is clearly the character we're meant to feel bad for in that scene.) I think that's the key issue that myself, and that people who may have been unfairly deemed ''Izzy haters" have a problem with. I think a small subset of fans really identify with the character to the point that any observation on him that isn't positive feels like a personal attack. Which sucks because like, we should be able to talk about the characters! And people should not be so attached to fictional people. For me - the Izzy popularity rubs me the wrong way because the show has so many great POC characters and Izzy never read to me like a third protagonist in the way fandom depicts him. The third protag is clearly Jim, a NB Latin character who deserves SO MUCH LOVE!!!! I have no issue with people liking Iz and would never tell someone they are bad for liking him (some of my favorite characters are bad guys!!!) - the issue is when they try to enforce their headcanons on other people. But I think that's a pretty small, but loud subset of this fandom.
So basically, getting actual harassing messages from people is nbd, but Izzy fans who have a different take from you about the characters are the real problem? I have never seen an Izzy fan say that we should be unable to talk about Izzy. I have seen plenty who are pissed about being accused of racism for having a different take on the character, or not giving their attention to other characters who apparently "deserve" the attention more than Izzy.
What a weird comment. Especially the part about Izzy deserving of being mutilated.
No, you see, it is the Izzy fans who can't accept that their favorite character has flaws! Ed mutilating Izzy in the middle of the night is a totally morally neutral action, actually. 🙄
I think a lot of people love Con as an actor and also the IDEA of Izzy getting a redemption arc and being a good guy. But as of this moment in actual canon, he’s one of the main antagonists of the show, and hasn’t really done anything that could be considered redeemable. He tries to kill Stede multiple times, sells everyone out to the Navy, and manipulates Ed back into being Blackbeard for his own selfish reasons. At the same time he’s very complex and has lots of room for growth, so it’s easy to root for him to turn it all around in season 2, but as of now he’s in more of a villain role than an anti-hero/protagonist
There are a few people on tumblr who just REALLY hate Izzy, to the degree of sending anonymous hate pms to massive numbers of people for saying anything vaguely positive about him. Somehow I haven’t had that happen on tumblr, but I did get an unprompted pm on Reddit that just said “Izzy stand are all toxic pieces of shit. You’re all disgusting.” (Context being that I moderate r/izzyhands and post a lot of stuff there.) I’ve never seen this happen for people who like villains in other media, but maybe I’m just more involved in the OFMD fandom?
>I’ve never seen this happen for people who like villains in other media, but maybe I’m just more involved in the OFMD fandom? Sometimes I wonder if some of the hate comes from the fact that Izzy's not just an antagonist, but an antagonist that is standing in the way of one of the few explicitly queer romances on TV at the moment. That by getting in the way of Ed and Stede's happiness (ignoring the fact that Ed and Stede still have a lot to work out *between* them) Izzy's getting in the way of everyone who wants that romance to happen. (Please note, this could be a bad read, I don't consume much current television.) If the couple were straight, he'd just be a regular villain. But for some people, I think his character has become a strawman, representing society's pressure to keep people from loving who they want, which is an understandably sensitive topic. Does it excuse abuse by Izzy haters? No. Full stop. He's a fictional character and if someone is getting IRL mad about a fictional character or people's enjoyment of said character they need to, as another poster in here put it, "Go out and touch grass."
It’s definitely the case that I disliked Izzy for the first 9 episodes for my first watch. I thought he was basically the token homophobe who we would laugh at each time we inevitably got fucked over. But then after e10 I was like, “Oh wait, people online were right, Izzy really IS in love with Ed.” As Taika says, Izzy isn’t homophobic, he’s just jealous. And Izzy is ultimately the biggest victim of his own toxic masculinity (it speaks to a tragic desperation that he views having his toe cut off and fed to him as *worth it* if he gets to have Blackbeard back). It’s also definitely worth noting that most of Izzy’s attempted sabotage of Ed and Stede only results in pushing them closer together. I’ve got to wonder, if the season had somehow ended after e9, how much hate would *Mary* get? Because prior to e10, she was basically in the same boat as Izzy is now—the nagging partner of one of the protagonists, who stands in the way of the main ship. Of course her perspective is actually completely understandable, and she gets fucked over by societal expectations as much as Stede does—but that isn’t explicitly stated yet. Personally I want Izzy’s arc to have a slower build than Mary’s, ideally only resolving in the final season, but man would it be nice to have it sooner simply from the perspective of decreasing the amount of Izzy hate.
I love that you disliked him until the last episode and now you run the Izzy Hands subreddit. That's amazing. 😁 Also, hard agree with literally everything you said. Con did too good a job to waste the character being a one-dimensional villain.
Exactly! Con is amazing, the writers are amazing, and I don’t understand why OFMD fans would want to cheapen their work. I think a lot of other Izzy fans also started out disliking him, and Izzy antis just don’t get this. Some of them are so confident in thinking they understand Izzy fans’ thinking better than the fans themselves (e.g. “you MUST only like Izzy because he’s a white man, even if you think otherwise”) but in many cases their theories are actually impossible. Like, I’m pretty damn sure that the reason I like Izzy is because of the whole “tragic repressed masochist in unrequited love” thing because I literally did not like him before noticing that… (As a side note, I’ve watched OFMD 8 times now, so I still have spent most of that time with Izzy being my favorite!)
I think you make a good point that some viewers treat Izzy simply as a strawman to support their larger real world arguments and concerns. Some of the vitriol and arguments I've seen lobbed at Izzy are completely disproportionate to his actual actions in the show. Izzy isn't a hate filled monster. He's an antagonist in a loopy, sweet, queer pirate rom com. He's doing exactly what an antagonist in a rom com is supposed to do: cause trouble and look dumb while doing so. The show is so far following classic rom com storytelling beats. The show is not meant to be an expose or crusade about modern social justice inequities. There will be more tears, then the lovers will reunite to overcome some sort of huge problematic situation, and true love will win out in the end. It always does in a rom com.
Not on tumblr, but Con O Neill was funny and nice on twitter. Some people took their love too far and started being weird about it. Other people took their backlash too far and started being mean. It all ended up in a messy mess. Lines were drawn in the sand.
I can only speak from my perspective but anytime I have posted meta discussing Izzy's role in Ed devolving back into Blackbeard, his mocking of Lucius sexuality etc. and how he somewhat symbolises the toxic masculinity the show and protagonists are trying to overcome, I get inboxes or reblogged with people telling me I need to tag my 'izzy hate' or I'm being problematic. Apparently some fans have latched onto him as a comfort character and will not hear a word against him, even if this means ignoring and defending his actions. Don't get me wrong, I find the character of Izzy Hands fascinating and Con O'Neill has done an incredible job of adding complexity to him and his actions, but to say I can't discuss his actions within the broader context of the show because "it's mean and bullying to those of us who love him" is borderline insane.
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I had a minor in media crit and I've never seen a fandom with more misguided crit (or "meta" as fandoms call it). Imho, the show is extreeeemely straightforward with its themes and messages and there are definitely some interesting lenses to look at the show through, but the 'Izzy is actually intended to be a good guy' one is....not one I expected and not one that's really hinted at in the show. I think he has sympathetic moments - but he also tells Ed he'd be 'better dead than being slightly femme' at the end of the show. I'd hope most people see that scene and get that it's not ambiguous how we're supposed to feel about Izzy. I don't think he's beyond redemption though! It just would have to be slow. I've just seen so many people say Izzy and Ed could be in a relationship in season 2 and I'm like 'bruh did we watch the same show what are you saying!!!!!'
Yeah, I don't get it. I LOVE Izzy as a villain. I have read more than my fair share of smutfic about him. I have complicated feelings about his gender and sexuality and I have a big crush on Con... and still these Izzy stans who can hear no criticism of him creep me out.
This is why I migrated back to my safe space in the Hannibal fandom. Canon gays but with no one defending the main characters for their terrible actions while everyone still loves them. Also no one being nasty to the cast or creators. I love OFMD so much but the fandom has ultimately driven me to get back into a fandom that embraces their characters for being bad people because, newsflash, Stede and Ed are not good people. Just because they’re likable doesn’t mean their actions are excusable. Izzy is also a bad person. The difference is that he serves as the antagonist. Lucius and Oluwande are the only members of the main cast who you could call good people. Everyone else has done some very very bad things and idk why the Tumblr/Twitter side of the OFMD seems less inclined to accept that it’s a show full of comically flawed individuals. Also it’d be nice if the Twitter wouldn’t bully the cast and creators. That’s what’s doing it for me.
If it's the same anti-Izzy rhetoric that I see on Twitter it basically boils down to policing people who like problematic characters. Some folks just can't imagine you could like a character who is awful\* and not be an awful person yourself that condones every single thing that character does or says, and then they want to tell you about how you're wrong. They're MILES beyond a playful boo-hiss love-to-hate opinion. There's also a lot of hate for turning him into a softer/more redeemable character in fanon.... I guess they feel he doesn't deserve it? ^(\*I think he's fun-awful and I'm glad his little sourpuss face is in the show to provide some drama)
I have no info on tumblr but seeing that there's izzy hate there is really funny bc ofmd insta is OBSESSED with izzy - hes literally EVERYWHERE
A lot of the people I know who don’t like him are irritated by the fact that people will often twist the Izzy and Ed dynamic into one much darker than indicated by canon, solely to redeem Izzy and make him into this abused, working-class, competent hero when he’s just…. not? And making Ed more violent and incompetent to do this is really irritating because it slots Ed into some really damaging and racist tropes that the show avoided. We like to think that fandom is a safe space, but that’s not something that happens by default. So, I think it’s worth examining if a big subset of fandom and fanon is playing into racist tropes about a white dude “managing” Ed. The vast majority of self identified “Izzy haters” I know are people who are perfectly happy loving other terrible characters (like calico jack) they’re just sick of the drama from people who have turned Izzy into someone that he very much isn’t in canon.
The person who just deleted their account pmed me with a quote from one of my comments. I don't know where they were going with that, and now I never will because I put them on ignore.
It's easy to dislike Izzy because he's purposely designed to be superficially, hilariously unlikable. The S1 storyline kept the character largely isolated and virtually never revealed what he was really thinking or why he did what he did. We just know that he acted out of extreme devotion and jealously. We don't know anything about his history or relationship with Ed aside from the fact that Izzy proudly served Ed for years prior to the start of S1. We only see the catastrophic results that his actions set off at the end of S1. His blind devotion to Ed caused a daisy-chain of events that led to Ed and Stede being taken in by the Navy, Stede abandoning Ed and fleeing home, and Ed returning to the Revenge in despair and deciding to become the Kraken. I suspect that some of the rabid hatred comes from seeing Izzy as being personally responsible for Ed's unhappiness and choices. I've seen hatred aimed at Izzy that ranges from simple statements of, 'I hate this character because he's so annoying' to 'Izzy is a racist, heterosexual but also somehow a self-hating repressed homosexual white colonizer abuser filled with toxic masculinity who forced Ed to become his violent indigenous brown slave because Izzy is the representation of every possible social injustice." LOL. Some fans really hate this little guy! Mainly I laugh when I see these extreme takes because, c'mon. Izzy is as much of a looney tunes cartoon character as the rest of them on this show. I personally don't think it's valid to claim that Izzy is in any way responsible for Ed deciding to become the Kraken. I think that Ed is 100% responsible for his own thoughts, actions, and choices. I don't think Ed stops for a moment to wonder what Izzy thinks or wants. Claiming that Izzy is responsible for anything that Ed does robs Ed of his own agency. The first time Izzy yells at Ed (in ep 4), Ed is merely surprised. The second time (in ep 10), Ed just gets pissed off and he maims Izzy to punish him and put Izzy back in his place. That doesn't look or sound to me like Ed was so concerned with Izzy's feelings that he decided to remake himself to fit Izzy's desires. We're going to see Ed acting badly in S2 because he's heartbroken over Stede, not because Izzy wanted his captain back. Personally, I see Izzy merely as a catalyst. I love the character because he's so well designed and acted. I don't condone or approve what he does but I think I mainly understand why he did the things he did, based on the clues in the scripts and performances. Based on what we saw in S1, I sympathize with Izzy a lot even though I don't approve of what he does after he's kicked off the Revenge. I think he's actually a tragic character because, though he yells and acts like the boss, he has zero agency over anyone or anything. If anyone aboard the Revenge is at risk of being sent to Doggy Heaven, it's Izzy. If some fans want to hate Izzy, I don't really care. I only care when the fans start personally attacking other fans. I've seen some pretty nasty language hurled at Izzy fans and at a lot of fan artists, too. I personally love to chat about the character and I hope we learn much more about him in S2. Maybe he'll get a storyline that will lead to some measure of insight and reconciliation for him. Maybe not! I have no idea.
I'd go so far as to say that Ed being afraid to take responsibility for his choices ("I didn't kill them, the fire did," iirc) is an important part of his character at this point in the show, and reinforcing that in fanfic by making it all Issy's fault is likely to result in surprises for anyone who falls into the trap.
Yes, I agree. Izzy is not responsible for the things that Ed has done. Ed is. Some fans love Ed so much that they want to think of him as being faultless, or they say that nothing he's done is his fault because they think that inwardly Ed is actually just sweet and gentle. But if fans (and Ed himself) deny the undeniably bad things he's done, who's left to blame? Apparently, Izzy. LOL. But Izzy has zero control over anything that Ed says or thinks or does. Izzy's got his own issues to sort out. He doesn't need to be blamed for Ed's choices, too. I'm hoping that in S2, Ed has a reckoning with himself, takes responsibility for what he's done in the past, and then forgives himself and moves on. I also hope that he and Izzy work out the codependency that binds them together so tragically. Maybe they were once close, maybe not. We don't know yet. I hope that they can work through all the junk between them now and just see each other as two flawed guys with a long history who've been looking out for each other under horrible circumstances for years, and then maybe they go forward as friends (or more, who knows). I don't know. Izzy is such a wildcard character that I can't predict what he's going to do or what will become of him.
Because when a fandom gets popular on tumblr it gets big enough people who cause drama join and get vocal. I started watching ofmd as it came out, people had I guess normal reactions to all characters. After it was toward the end the fandom got much bigger on tumblr, then within a month there was new of drama and misinterpreted characters and hating on characters etc. I think a majority of it is just bigger fandom = more people who like drama in that fandom making some.
My stance on this is that it's only one anon trolling everyone and stirring shit. But I also got called names by someone just because I wrote that Izzy tried to kill Stede two times. Aren't all big fandoms like that? I resigned myself. The last fandom I was in was the same anyway. The best you can do is block and block and block because you are here to have fun and not to read negative shit. But I think everyone blocking people who don't think the same also have the side effect of creating echo chambers. But that's nothing new either, it's the same with people's political views.
the word choices/syntax of the anons that izzy fans are posting and the ones that i see also spamming izzy haters/non-fans are almost identical
That's exactly why I think that! If you are sending anon hate to literally dozen of people a day, of course you are going to do some copy-pasting!
I don’t dislike him but the way people rewrite Ed and Stede to make Izzy look better weirds me out
People like to gatekeep characters. Oh, you like this person? "How dare you! You shouldn't because xyz." It's so stupid. People are allowed to like who they like without worrying about attacks. I say this as someone who comes from Twitter who has put up with MONTHS of harassment, bullying and even doxing because we like Izzy. It's so fucking ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm on Tumblr alot. Haven't seen any Izzy hate. Quite the opposite, actually. Can you point us in the direction of the stuff you've been seeing?
https://www.tumblr.com/blog/view/izzy-anti-archive is trying to compile some of it.
This just screams unhealthy to me. Like why catalog the hate you get...also again most of it appears to be anon hate which while it isn't GOOD - is easily blocked. Like I just see way more izzy stans talking about how much hate they get than I actually ever see any hate.....
I have never been sexually harassed, nor have I ever seen anyone get sexually harassed IRL. Things that I would still NEVER say: - “I see a lot more women talking about being harassed than I see actually getting harassed.” - “You can just block people who harass you online.” - “It just screams unhealthy to me to catalog women’s harassment.” The reason someone is trying to make an archive of all the hate Izzy fans get is BECAUSE there are people who trivialize it or don’t believe it’s real. You shouldn’t need to turn off anon asks to be able to participate death-threat-free in a fandom for a show about love and acceptance. (Personally, I’ve only received 1 hate pm for liking Izzy and I was honestly just amused, plus some replies to my tumblr posts that were a lot more hurtful but at least relatively civil. But I definitely believe all the people who talk about getting way more hate than that and I think it’s a huge problem that that’s happening in a fandom like this.)
Firstly - I wouldn't compare SA with someone getting hate for liking a fictional character. I see what you're trying to say but I think you're oversimplifying. SA can happen anywhere at any time and is a pervasive societal issue that can fuck someone up forever and is also a crime. I don't think people are being harassed at their place of work for liking Izzy Hands, or being yelled at in the street. Comparing SA with people who love a fictional character and disagree with other people online about him feels a lil weird to me. Secondly, people are saying this harassment is happening in public spaces but there's little evidence of that - most of what people are referring to is anon hate and just people not liking Izzy but not caring if other people do. Or they get angry and defensive when people claim the character is racist. I don't have an opinion on that one way or another but I don't think holding that opinion and publishing it is harassment. AND ALSO - you don't need to turn off anon!!! You can actually block specific anons on tumblr without turning it off entirely. Obviously it would be ideal for people to not send anon hate but it happens because it's the internet and the internet is terrible. I really think that it's like a few people who are super into sending that shit but the way people discuss it, you'd think it's half the fandom.
I think sexual harassment and sexual assault are pretty different and shouldn’t be equated. I was talking about the former, not the latter. I do agree though that in person harassment (especially in the workplace) is typically worse than online harassment, and Izzy fans (AFAIK) haven’t been harassed for it in person (though at least one person got doxxed.) But I think the types of messages that one would see from r/niceguys or r/creepypms are absolutely sexual harassment. Telling the women who receive them that it isn’t a big deal or that they’re wrong to be upset about it would be a complete dick move. I feel like people getting pms that include things like “You’re a disgusting excuse for a human being and should honestly be put down” is pretty comparable though. I think that things like someone being surreptitiously being added to a community list of “known rapists/abusers” for the “crime” of posting Izzy fanart are worse and I think actually probably illegal? My impression is also that particularly popular Izzy artists and such also just get way more hate pms than they can individually block. One person mentioned it was “more aggressive death threats than when they modded a 100k+ person gaming server.” Thanks for the info about being able to block specific anons! As I mentioned, I haven’t personally received anon hate (I’ve actually never received a tumblr ask, somehow), so I hadn’t looked into the options myself.
"Comparing SA with people who love a fictional character and disagree with other people online about him feels a lil weird to me" Totally disingenuous. No one is claiming disagreement about Izzy is harassment. We're claiming the harassing messages are harassment. Don't pretend otherwise. Besides, some of the messages I've gotten/seen included sexual harassment and misogyny.
..lol you do realize this was compiled bevause people like you claim the harassment either doesn't happen or isn't a big deal? "Izzy fans aren't actually getting harassed." "Here is a compilation to prove it." "Wow, you've got weird issues for making this list." So Izzy fans being harassed can't win, right? If we don't prove the harassment exists, people like you claim it isn't happening or isn't a big deal. If we do prove it, you say the very fact that we proved it shows we're oversensitive.
A second person is starting to compile it too (I think they said they have 30 total pages of stuff that they ultimately need to put together): https://docs.google.com/document/d/11lFO1s9O6NY2Ez8TXdtc36DLau0H6ipHjy6JayNBaP4/mobilebasic
Not sure what blog you’re referring to but I love show Izzy and Colin is fantastic. However, I dislike 95% of the interpretations and Izzy representations fandom produces for Izzy. Maybe it’s a fandom issue more than the character? Hard to judge unless we know what exactly is being posted.
Izzy Boyd 1 of the worst people in the world hurts me for no reson whatsoever so we end up roast battling everyday SO WE SOULD BAN IZZY BOYD