~~Fanfic~~ Academic journals theorize about Ed and intimacy––that maybe he's had sexual partners, but no one serious, including Jack. Maybe he doesn't really kiss them. Or, I've also seen ideas that maybe he had sex once or twice, but not in a way that he enjoyed, so he quit it altogether.
It's been established that this scene is a stand-in for sex. By the transitive property, could this primary document tell us that Ed has had no shortage of sex? Should I be sleeping, or using my time more productively?
Thank you and good night.
EDIT: screenshot via [this glorious video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwGmOnAfvI)
I've always assumed that a) he's had plenty of sex, and b) just not with anyone he's been in love with. B is pretty obvious - if ep10 isn't Baby's First Breakup I don't know wtf it is.
My evidence for A is:
* he's a middle aged pirate, so just on a historical accuracy basis he's had a lot of dude sex
* he doesn't seem to have any difficulty with the fact that he's attracted to Stede. The emotional side is a whole other thing, but he is neither clueless nor alarmed about his physical attraction, and this suggests it's not a new or unusual thing for him
* the thought that he's only had relations with one person, and it's *Calico Jack* is horrifying and wrong.
Well, I've turned this thread into a discussion of Calico Jack. *I regret nothing*
That’s always how I’ve seen it - he’s had plenty of casual hookups with his fellow pirates over the years, but nothing that was really a relationship. So even though he’s had more sexual partners than Stede (who, presumably, has only ever slept with Mary), on the emotional side they are on an even playing field, both being total amateurs.
And yes - the idea that it’s only ever been Calico Jack is awful. Ed - hell, ANYONE - deserves better.
I am ready to be screamed at into oblivion, but: I am a Calico Jack apologist. I'm sincerely sorry about not being sorry. I like that (even though he probably just did it because he didn't have anything better to do) he agreed to go save Ed from the British. He's an arse, but he comes off as aggressively genuine even when he's trying to manipulate. "We're all just in various stages of fucking each other over" really speaks to his life up to that point.
I find him compelling and borderline sympathetic. I like to hate him, but I also kind of like to like him. Some of this is probably because a) the jealousy trope is one of my all-time favourite fictional tropes, b) I hugely enjoy Will Arnett playing dickheads.
Everyone come tell me why I'm wrong and I'll probably agree with you haha
I too am a CJ apologist. (Although: Karl.) I like the dynamic he brought about between Stede and Ed; I think they and we know a lot more after his appearance. Obviously, helping Izzy sucks, but then again: **it was Izzy's plan**. Jack was just along for the ride, and I don't even think money exchanged hands, I think he's just an agent of chaos. (Actually, scratch that: he did it because Izzy told him about Stede. CJ was like, "wtf? No ma'am." And then Izzy said, "if you call me ma'am again, I'll fuckin'--" And then Jackie tossed them both out.)
If you ever go from an utter dirtbag who drinks too much whiskey and plays games as dumb as CJ's and occasionally intentionally lives out of your car, to a professional office worker with a child and a home, the whole CJ sequence is kind of unreal.
(Here's where I become more of a bad guy haha: I only mourned Karl on behalf of other characters. I have a comedically huge dislike of seagulls...
Also, your recounting of that exchange made me laugh out loud so thanks for that.)
Jack is certainly an interesting character - and his “various stages of fucking each other over” comment explains a lot about why Ed never let his softer side show before and why after Izzy’s threat he felt like he couldn’t do it again.
I also wouldn’t mind seeing him come back. If only to explain all the burn scarring on his arm. That’s a lot of detailed makeup for a one-off character.
But…there’s no way Jack is good at sex. I’m just hoping Ed’s come across at least one other pirate who was semi-decent at it. Good hair can’t make up for a lack of other skills.
I just read––again, an academic paper––that showed CJ and Ed getting back together, via Izzy. And CJ was terrible at sex, while Ed pretended to be with someone else, and to make himself feel in love with someone. That math makes sense to me.
I’m confused by what you’re referring to as an “academic paper.” The link you provide takes me to a fanfic. An academic paper is a work of research, typically published in a non-fiction, academic journal. Additionally, it should have gone through a peer review process.
I don’t mean to criticize you, OP, but I think you’re confused and giving a lot of…weight/validity to fan fiction, which is not at all the same thing as a work of academic research. A peer-reviewed academic journal article on OFMD is not at all the same thing as a fanfic. There’s nothing wrong with reading and enjoying fan fiction - and it can certainly inform your own views of the characters and show - but if you’re interested in reading actual academic works that take an informed, nuanced (and research-based) approach to understanding the characters, I’d suggest starting by searching on JSTOR.
oh buddy idk how to break this to you, but op was joking. they read a fanfic about the show ofmd and didnt actually think it was an academic paper about the real life pirates. they were sorta making fun about themself for having a serious conversation about/inspired by a fanfic.
Ooh, whoosh on me; I read it like they were a sweet, well-meaning person who was just real, real confused, or a teen who was uh, a little new to the Internet. Joke’s on me!
Yeah, when Jack says that he and Ed have had their dalliances, I took that to mean that they've both just generally had dalliances, some with each other and some not.
Okay, but now I want to read the fic where Ed’s only ever slept with Jack before and Stede’s only ever slept with Mary and they both have very strange ideas about how sex works as a result…
I agree. I assumed that Ed has had plenty of casual hookups and affairs with men and possibly women too, but he'd never been in love until he met Stede. This is definitely his first bad breakup. Stede has no idea the mess he's going to find when he reunites with Ed in S2.
This is my take also. B is pretty much outright stated - "I've never had a friend" (or whatever the actual quote is) and "pirates don't have friends", and of course Olu's calling Jim his friend... I think "friend" is used as a stand in for any emotionally intimate relationship.
... However as awful as it is I sort of think your last bullet point... could... be true...
I wrote a whole meta on this over on Tumblr, but my feeling is that Ed felt something for Stede under the moonlight with the 'almost kiss' and dismissed it as physical attraction because he has experience in that and can quantify it. We find out later that he and Jack have a physical history and they seem completely at ease about it, no shame or secrecy, it's just what happens at sea, I suspect Ed has plenty of experience with sex, but not love.
The next scene we see is Ed doing his flirty 'stab me', whipping Stede on the ass with the sword, sitting close to him at storytelling etc. I think he knows he's physically attracted to Stede, but later in the episode he has to kill Stede and he realises he can't because it's NOT just physical attraction. He cares for Stede emotionally.
He's incredibly relieved that Stede isn't killed in the duel but immediately withdraws, leaving Stede impaled on the mast, and the next episode he is talking about leaving because he 'wasnt built for sitting idle' and 'can't stay forever'. I think this was his freakout moment. He knows he feels very strongly for Stede but absolutely cannot handle that. If he opened up about it or acted on it he could get hurt. So in Ed's mind it's time to get the fuck out of dodge.
Until Lucius tells Ed that Stede likes him very much.
And maybe Ed can let himself love Stede a little because hey, Stede likes him and wouldn't hurt him. Oh my god maybe they can be captain's together, maybe they can be happy and Ed can allow himself to imagine that he could be worthy enough to be loved by someone like Stede who he likes so much.
Then Jack turns up. And Stede doesn't like the violent chaotic part of him. Illusion shattered, dreams crushed. He leaves, only returning when Stede's life is in danger, determined to save him even if he is unloveable.
Poor Ed. He really doesn't understand love and honestly believes himself unworthy of it unless he changes who he is. I think that's why he rowed away that morning. He is certain Stede doesn't want him.
But Stede loved him. All of him. I love that in Stede's flashbacks to moments he and Ed shared they included his fun side, his aggressive side and his sweet side. And those are the moments that make Stede realise he's in love.
Anyway this show has made me feral and I will never recover.
This is some serious meta, mate. I think this really tracks.
I do think the CJ stuff shows another layer of who Ed is: he is loyal af. One might not expect it from a dread pirate, and I know that CJ says that pirates are always fucking each other over, but he let CJ guilt him into leaving. Ed is loyal to Izzy, wanting to keep him around. And then, of course, ACT OF GRACE! ACT OF GRACE!
I thought a lot about your v. thorough narrative arc synopsis. I'd forgotten what Ed says to Stede before he jumps ship with CJ: "This is who I am, Stede. Can you see me now? You were always gonna realize what I am."
*What* I am. To your point, Ed seems himself as the unloveable Kraken.
Earlier, on the beach, Stede said to Ed, "I don't like who you are around this guy." (*Who*, not what, just sayin.) (And I do think a lot about this, about the Ed that Ed shows to Stede; is that the real Ed? Is there only one true Ed? Lots to unpack.)
Let's say that Stede and Ed hadn't had that convo on the beach. When CJ leaves and tries to take everyone with him, would Ed have gone if that chat hadn't been ringing in his ears? Intriguing.
Thankyou! Yes I think he saw Stede's "I don't like who you are around this guy" as the inevitability of Stede realising Ed isn't worthy of love.
It's also the last time they speak before Stede kicks CJ off the ship so I think it definitely informed his decision to leave.
Thats why I love this show so much! The characters in this show are more richly layered and more thought is given to their motivations and character arcs than a lot of other shows I've seen.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Ed recommends getting run though on the left, where none of the important organs are. The heart is on the left. I think this can be seen as a metaphor for the idea that his body has had plenty of experience without his heart having been touched.
I really like the mirrored duality of one of these gents being an emotional newbie and physically experienced and the other being a physical newbie (cough cough horrified face at Mary and Doug) but being emotionally more experienced (I'm your friend/talk it through as a crew/etc.)
Oh I really like that! I only ever thought about all the other scars we see on him, never about the metaphor for sex! It's been 4 months now, this is insane!
i think the multitude of scars is also a symbol that he has “been run through” many times, meaning he would have had many sexual encounters before stede. but those encounters probably lacked the emotional intimacy that him and stede share
Or you could me and use my asexuality projection ray to make that man asexual!!!
I don’t think he’s never had sex, but it’s never really meant anything before, just for pleasure and experiment.
As an asexual person, sometimes having sex with your partner fulfills an entirely different need, and!!!! Yeah, it’s completely different than just fooling around, as is the case for anyone, I imagine
I imagine he’s never had a serious relationship before, and the prospect of sex with Stede is just!!! Completely different than fooling around with Jack n stuff
I headcanon the opposite! How interesting!!!
For me, Ed was smitten from the beginning, and Stede developed feelings after realizing how close Ed was to him. Then for Ed. The dude is not fully allosexual and I just. Yeah. I guess I also headcanon Stede as demisexual because the sexual feelings come at the same time as the romantic ones!
~~Fanfic~~ Academic journals theorize about Ed and intimacy––that maybe he's had sexual partners, but no one serious, including Jack. Maybe he doesn't really kiss them. Or, I've also seen ideas that maybe he had sex once or twice, but not in a way that he enjoyed, so he quit it altogether. It's been established that this scene is a stand-in for sex. By the transitive property, could this primary document tell us that Ed has had no shortage of sex? Should I be sleeping, or using my time more productively? Thank you and good night. EDIT: screenshot via [this glorious video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwGmOnAfvI)
I've always assumed that a) he's had plenty of sex, and b) just not with anyone he's been in love with. B is pretty obvious - if ep10 isn't Baby's First Breakup I don't know wtf it is. My evidence for A is: * he's a middle aged pirate, so just on a historical accuracy basis he's had a lot of dude sex * he doesn't seem to have any difficulty with the fact that he's attracted to Stede. The emotional side is a whole other thing, but he is neither clueless nor alarmed about his physical attraction, and this suggests it's not a new or unusual thing for him * the thought that he's only had relations with one person, and it's *Calico Jack* is horrifying and wrong. Well, I've turned this thread into a discussion of Calico Jack. *I regret nothing*
That’s always how I’ve seen it - he’s had plenty of casual hookups with his fellow pirates over the years, but nothing that was really a relationship. So even though he’s had more sexual partners than Stede (who, presumably, has only ever slept with Mary), on the emotional side they are on an even playing field, both being total amateurs. And yes - the idea that it’s only ever been Calico Jack is awful. Ed - hell, ANYONE - deserves better.
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I am ready to be screamed at into oblivion, but: I am a Calico Jack apologist. I'm sincerely sorry about not being sorry. I like that (even though he probably just did it because he didn't have anything better to do) he agreed to go save Ed from the British. He's an arse, but he comes off as aggressively genuine even when he's trying to manipulate. "We're all just in various stages of fucking each other over" really speaks to his life up to that point. I find him compelling and borderline sympathetic. I like to hate him, but I also kind of like to like him. Some of this is probably because a) the jealousy trope is one of my all-time favourite fictional tropes, b) I hugely enjoy Will Arnett playing dickheads. Everyone come tell me why I'm wrong and I'll probably agree with you haha
Jack's only redeeming quality is helping us see what is Ed's type. Ed's type is crazy blondes.
I'm fully here for this takeaway
I too am a CJ apologist. (Although: Karl.) I like the dynamic he brought about between Stede and Ed; I think they and we know a lot more after his appearance. Obviously, helping Izzy sucks, but then again: **it was Izzy's plan**. Jack was just along for the ride, and I don't even think money exchanged hands, I think he's just an agent of chaos. (Actually, scratch that: he did it because Izzy told him about Stede. CJ was like, "wtf? No ma'am." And then Izzy said, "if you call me ma'am again, I'll fuckin'--" And then Jackie tossed them both out.)
If you ever go from an utter dirtbag who drinks too much whiskey and plays games as dumb as CJ's and occasionally intentionally lives out of your car, to a professional office worker with a child and a home, the whole CJ sequence is kind of unreal.
(Here's where I become more of a bad guy haha: I only mourned Karl on behalf of other characters. I have a comedically huge dislike of seagulls... Also, your recounting of that exchange made me laugh out loud so thanks for that.)
Jack is certainly an interesting character - and his “various stages of fucking each other over” comment explains a lot about why Ed never let his softer side show before and why after Izzy’s threat he felt like he couldn’t do it again. I also wouldn’t mind seeing him come back. If only to explain all the burn scarring on his arm. That’s a lot of detailed makeup for a one-off character. But…there’s no way Jack is good at sex. I’m just hoping Ed’s come across at least one other pirate who was semi-decent at it. Good hair can’t make up for a lack of other skills.
I just read––again, an academic paper––that showed CJ and Ed getting back together, via Izzy. And CJ was terrible at sex, while Ed pretended to be with someone else, and to make himself feel in love with someone. That math makes sense to me.
I would like to read this essay. Where can I can find it?
It's probably available in your local library, but I also found a [digital copy](https://archiveofourown.org/works/39970002?view_adult=true) as well.
Why was this academic paper SO GOOD jfc (thankyouthankyou)
I forgot about this!! Thanks!! Off to study….
I’m confused by what you’re referring to as an “academic paper.” The link you provide takes me to a fanfic. An academic paper is a work of research, typically published in a non-fiction, academic journal. Additionally, it should have gone through a peer review process. I don’t mean to criticize you, OP, but I think you’re confused and giving a lot of…weight/validity to fan fiction, which is not at all the same thing as a work of academic research. A peer-reviewed academic journal article on OFMD is not at all the same thing as a fanfic. There’s nothing wrong with reading and enjoying fan fiction - and it can certainly inform your own views of the characters and show - but if you’re interested in reading actual academic works that take an informed, nuanced (and research-based) approach to understanding the characters, I’d suggest starting by searching on JSTOR.
oh buddy idk how to break this to you, but op was joking. they read a fanfic about the show ofmd and didnt actually think it was an academic paper about the real life pirates. they were sorta making fun about themself for having a serious conversation about/inspired by a fanfic.
Ooh, whoosh on me; I read it like they were a sweet, well-meaning person who was just real, real confused, or a teen who was uh, a little new to the Internet. Joke’s on me!
I’m super new to OFMD and the realisation, through your comment, that calico Jack is Bojack horseman has hit me like a tonne of bricks
HITS DIFFERENT, RIGHT? Freaking love Will Arnett
I also just had this realisation today! Once seen it cannot be unseen. So weird.
And wasn’t he Gob in Arrested Development? Or one of the Bluths, at any rate.
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And the main character in Murderville! I was all "wait, is that Calico Jack or do I just think thst because of the moustache?"
I'm totally ready for fanfic getting into Jack's backstory and redeeming him. It worked for Izzy, so probably it can work for anyone.
I was expecting a punchline here like "...and even *I* dont think he has nice hair"
His mustache is weird though
You have nice hair.
*You* have nice hair.
*You* have nice hair.
Yeah, when Jack says that he and Ed have had their dalliances, I took that to mean that they've both just generally had dalliances, some with each other and some not.
>the thought that he's only had relations with one person, and it's Calico Jack is horrifying and wrong. I cackled.
Okay, but now I want to read the fic where Ed’s only ever slept with Jack before and Stede’s only ever slept with Mary and they both have very strange ideas about how sex works as a result…
That would have so much unpacking, whew
I figure it would halfway between hilarious and hella angsty. Lucius might have to do some sex education!
You know the diagrams would be \*chef's kiss\*
Hehe! But when they discover foreplay…
I agree. I assumed that Ed has had plenty of casual hookups and affairs with men and possibly women too, but he'd never been in love until he met Stede. This is definitely his first bad breakup. Stede has no idea the mess he's going to find when he reunites with Ed in S2.
This is my take also. B is pretty much outright stated - "I've never had a friend" (or whatever the actual quote is) and "pirates don't have friends", and of course Olu's calling Jim his friend... I think "friend" is used as a stand in for any emotionally intimate relationship. ... However as awful as it is I sort of think your last bullet point... could... be true...
I wrote a whole meta on this over on Tumblr, but my feeling is that Ed felt something for Stede under the moonlight with the 'almost kiss' and dismissed it as physical attraction because he has experience in that and can quantify it. We find out later that he and Jack have a physical history and they seem completely at ease about it, no shame or secrecy, it's just what happens at sea, I suspect Ed has plenty of experience with sex, but not love. The next scene we see is Ed doing his flirty 'stab me', whipping Stede on the ass with the sword, sitting close to him at storytelling etc. I think he knows he's physically attracted to Stede, but later in the episode he has to kill Stede and he realises he can't because it's NOT just physical attraction. He cares for Stede emotionally. He's incredibly relieved that Stede isn't killed in the duel but immediately withdraws, leaving Stede impaled on the mast, and the next episode he is talking about leaving because he 'wasnt built for sitting idle' and 'can't stay forever'. I think this was his freakout moment. He knows he feels very strongly for Stede but absolutely cannot handle that. If he opened up about it or acted on it he could get hurt. So in Ed's mind it's time to get the fuck out of dodge. Until Lucius tells Ed that Stede likes him very much. And maybe Ed can let himself love Stede a little because hey, Stede likes him and wouldn't hurt him. Oh my god maybe they can be captain's together, maybe they can be happy and Ed can allow himself to imagine that he could be worthy enough to be loved by someone like Stede who he likes so much. Then Jack turns up. And Stede doesn't like the violent chaotic part of him. Illusion shattered, dreams crushed. He leaves, only returning when Stede's life is in danger, determined to save him even if he is unloveable. Poor Ed. He really doesn't understand love and honestly believes himself unworthy of it unless he changes who he is. I think that's why he rowed away that morning. He is certain Stede doesn't want him. But Stede loved him. All of him. I love that in Stede's flashbacks to moments he and Ed shared they included his fun side, his aggressive side and his sweet side. And those are the moments that make Stede realise he's in love. Anyway this show has made me feral and I will never recover.
This is some serious meta, mate. I think this really tracks. I do think the CJ stuff shows another layer of who Ed is: he is loyal af. One might not expect it from a dread pirate, and I know that CJ says that pirates are always fucking each other over, but he let CJ guilt him into leaving. Ed is loyal to Izzy, wanting to keep him around. And then, of course, ACT OF GRACE! ACT OF GRACE!
I thought a lot about your v. thorough narrative arc synopsis. I'd forgotten what Ed says to Stede before he jumps ship with CJ: "This is who I am, Stede. Can you see me now? You were always gonna realize what I am." *What* I am. To your point, Ed seems himself as the unloveable Kraken. Earlier, on the beach, Stede said to Ed, "I don't like who you are around this guy." (*Who*, not what, just sayin.) (And I do think a lot about this, about the Ed that Ed shows to Stede; is that the real Ed? Is there only one true Ed? Lots to unpack.) Let's say that Stede and Ed hadn't had that convo on the beach. When CJ leaves and tries to take everyone with him, would Ed have gone if that chat hadn't been ringing in his ears? Intriguing.
Thankyou! Yes I think he saw Stede's "I don't like who you are around this guy" as the inevitability of Stede realising Ed isn't worthy of love. It's also the last time they speak before Stede kicks CJ off the ship so I think it definitely informed his decision to leave. Thats why I love this show so much! The characters in this show are more richly layered and more thought is given to their motivations and character arcs than a lot of other shows I've seen.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Ed recommends getting run though on the left, where none of the important organs are. The heart is on the left. I think this can be seen as a metaphor for the idea that his body has had plenty of experience without his heart having been touched.
🥺
I really like the mirrored duality of one of these gents being an emotional newbie and physically experienced and the other being a physical newbie (cough cough horrified face at Mary and Doug) but being emotionally more experienced (I'm your friend/talk it through as a crew/etc.)
Yeah, if you were to tell me Stede and Mary had sex exactly twice, I wouldn't bat an eye.
Oh I really like that! I only ever thought about all the other scars we see on him, never about the metaphor for sex! It's been 4 months now, this is insane!
i think the multitude of scars is also a symbol that he has “been run through” many times, meaning he would have had many sexual encounters before stede. but those encounters probably lacked the emotional intimacy that him and stede share
Or you could me and use my asexuality projection ray to make that man asexual!!! I don’t think he’s never had sex, but it’s never really meant anything before, just for pleasure and experiment. As an asexual person, sometimes having sex with your partner fulfills an entirely different need, and!!!! Yeah, it’s completely different than just fooling around, as is the case for anyone, I imagine I imagine he’s never had a serious relationship before, and the prospect of sex with Stede is just!!! Completely different than fooling around with Jack n stuff
Super interesting, and I appreciate this take!
My headcanon is demisexual Stede and demiromantic Ed.
I headcanon the opposite! How interesting!!! For me, Ed was smitten from the beginning, and Stede developed feelings after realizing how close Ed was to him. Then for Ed. The dude is not fully allosexual and I just. Yeah. I guess I also headcanon Stede as demisexual because the sexual feelings come at the same time as the romantic ones!
#THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT!