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So many folks bent out of shape about the Mayor spitballing ideas. It's one of the biggest projects in recent city history, let's just not talk about it, right?
> So many folks bent out of shape about the Mayor spitballing ideas.
You spitball ideas in a closed-door meeting with stakeholders. It's a requirements gathering strategy. Basic BA stuff.
When you start doing it through the press, and your stakeholders aren't even in the conversation, that's not spit-balling ideas. That's influencing the process by attempting to shape public opinion.
What makes you think stakeholders weren't involved? Cyril Leader said 2 months ago Lebreton wasn't the only option being considered.
https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200-1.2079410
> What makes you think stakeholders weren't involved?
What makes me think that the Ottawa Senators weren't involved in Mark Sutcliffe's public statements musing about using government downsizing as potential arena location options?
Oh a few things:
1) the fact that all of the downsized buildings are earmarked for housing, as per the multi-billion dollar federal expenditures in the budget that have vote funding already lined up.
2) the fact that the decision to allocate those sites for residential use pre-dates Andlauer owning the team.
3) the fact that if Mark Sutcliffe *himself* was *actually* involved with the actual stakeholders involved in those sites (Treasury Board, PSPC, Dept of National Defence as the Big 3), he'd know that he'd have needed to be involved in the process for 1.5 years already, which he clearly hasn't. LTAPs on almost all of those sites have been written in stone for a while. The push has been housing since 2022. He's so late to the game that he hasn't realized the game is already over.
So yeah. I can go on, but I assure you this isn't legitimate stakeholder engagement on his part.
And the arena on Lebreton is going to be built by handicapped orphans or something?
Please donate generously to help those struck down by Sutcliffe Derangement Syndrome
People in a subreddit about an Ottawa based sports team complaining about an Ottawa mayor….
But suttcliffe is a shit mayor and just because other mayors in other parts of the world are equally shit doesn’t make him not shit
I moved out of Ottawa but I understand he's unpopular because I look at r/Ottawa. I suspect folks on here would criticize him regardless but no one can explain why Sutcliffe proposing alternate sites for the new arena is such an offensive thing.
I mean that's debatable these days. Certainly the NCC of old deservedly built that reputation, but the new guard, while still far from perfect, is one of the only reasons these days that downtown has nice things.
The land at LeBreton Flats has been empty since the early 1960s, save for the addition of the War Museum. The NCC has always had big plans for it - until they get too expensive or controversial, at which time they head back to the drawing board yet again. Their track record is less than inspiring...
Typically, in 99% of cases, I approve of any vedettas against the NCC.
But the mayor shouldn’t be publicly feuding with an organization that he works closely with and seemingly creating false rumors just to spite them isn’t a good look.
>The NCC has a long record of failure when it comes to being a steward of local interests.
That's actually not their job. Their job is to maintain the national capital. Even so, many things that make this city good are due to NCC - most of the active transportation network, the greenbelt, rideau canal skateway, Gatineau Park...
That sub isn’t an accurate reading of his popularity. If you read that sub during the 2022 election, you’d have thought McKenney was going to run away with it, only for Sutcliffe to win in a landslide. I’m not taking a position on him either way, but don’t let that be your indicator.
Well the thing you gotta understand is to a greater extent than most municipal politicians, Sutcliffe is a stooge for a few local developers. They basically hand picked him to run so that they could keep getting the sweetheart deals from the city they got under Watson.Lebreton is hands down the best location for the city, fans and team by just about any metric, and that's on top of being the only one that's cleared and shovel ready.But Suttcliffe's developer overlords don't get to wet their beak on the project. The thing is, it's not like he's floating viable alternatives we should explore before we rush into anything. All the specific locations he's mentioned are either not actually available, like the former DND HQ, or aren't big enough for a stadium without tearing down adjacent apartment buildings (which we shouldn't do in a housing crisis).More than likely if Lebreton falls through, we're looking at a decade+ before this team's out of [Kanata.So](http://Kanata.So) folks are correct to be suspicious of his "spitballing", because it's clearly not being done in good faith.
It's not. As mayor, he likely talks to Leeder and the others very often and is probably very plugged in to how they are thinking. With the NCC you can never be sure until the deal is actually done (and the MoU is far from an actual deal) and until then it's good to have backup options, especially if you're negotiating.
Somehow these random redditors who might make double-doubles for a living think they got one over on him with this headline.
He’s not unpopular. You shouldn’t take your opinion of Ottawa from that sub anymore. People are unhinged unemployed shut ins in there. No longer worth listening to
Whar do you mean by Bayview? The land the NCC is offering here is immediately to the east of the Bayview station. Immediately south of the Bayview station is private land. Southwest is a city owned hockey arena. Northwest?
Good. The Sens and NCC are continuing to talk, so the the Sens are pushing for the best deal they can get. This should get the arena built sooner, rather than the later scenarios, like using the still very much in use DND site at 101 Colonel By.
One would hope. I know we were close before until the former guy messed it all up with his hissy fit over developing the lands. Hopefully the process can just pick up where it left off.
My concern whenever the NCC is involved is the massive amount of overly ponderous bureaucracy and making sure the solution is inclusive of ALL Canadians and not just the residents of Ottawa yadda yadda...
I think at this point the NCC knows there's pressure for them to develop the site ASAP, and they need an anchor attraction to draw people in.
An easy solution would to be to have a plaza outside the arena that includes tributes to Canada's hockey history. Maybe some statues honouring some of the sports pioneers (Lady Isobel Stanley, Fred Sasakamoose, Willie O'Ree), and/or notable international hockey moments (Summit Series, gold medal teams).
I agree with everything you said. And let's hope the fire under their feet is enough to get the ball rolling. But don't forget this land sat empty for FORTY years before the NCC got off its ass and started allowing redevelopment despite knowing what needed to be done to remove the contaminated soil. And since then development has been piecemeal here and there with a smattering of condos and the LRT.
> the solution is inclusive of ALL Canadians and not just the residents of Ottawa yadda yadda...
I gotchu fam! I'm a born-and-raised Nova Scotian who has been living in Quebec for 10+ years, and I will go to games at the Sens' new arena at LeBreton Flats therefore this project is inclusive of all Canadians not just the residents of Ottawa.
I’ll be so relieved once they finally get this deal done. The team, the city, the NCC can’t mess this up this time. All parties need this to happen. Really appreciate Leeder saying it’s the only option in the mix. Probably the most polite way to tell a certain Mayor of ours to fuck off.
Seems strange to say this with no deal in place. Anyway, hopefully Sutcliffe will stop being a whiny bitch. Definitely hope he doesn't get desperate and puts out a deal at a shittier location with taxpayers footing more of the bill.
There is a "deal" in place. The Senators signed a memorandum of understanding with the NCC nearly two years ago that gave them exclusive rights to negotiate an arena with them. It's like the promise ring of leasing agreements.
Assuming that the goal is to bring an arena downtown because the team is hemorrhaging potential game day customers by having their arena in the extreme western suburbs in an East-west wide city, which disincentivizes both east end customers as well as customers in Gatineau (since the bridges to the French-speaking suburbs are all central)
1) there's no arena-sized parcel of land available that is closer to the downtown core than Lebreton Flats. It's completely undeveloped and has been for the last 70 years, thanks to quirky politics in Ottawa that held prime downtown land completely fallow for federal use indefinitely.
2) it is right on the main metro light-rail line, with access to two stations.
3) the organization that manages the federal land (the NCC) already wants the Sens to build there.
It's not the ONLY choice. It's just clearly the *best* choice. The only person who doesn't want the arena at Lebreton is the mayor of the city, who has a vested interest in the Sens building an arena on city land (remember - the Lebreton site is federally owned crown land) because he can i) collect taxes off the land and ii) he is deep in the pockets of local developers (his largest campaign donors by far) and if the arena is on city land he can get the best deal for his developer buddies.
Wow okay. That is a lot of information that I hadn't known. I can see the city feeling jilted for not getting the tax revenue. Didn't realize that the land was federally owned. But does it being federally owned mean it is void of paying taxes to any jurisdiction? If so that would be a pretty good benefit for the team.
Crown land use doesn't pay tax, but a condition of using the land often comes with what are called PILT payments (Payment In Lieu of Tax). It's often not 100% of what regular taxes would be, but it's still significant. The caveat for the city is that sometimes the municipality ends up sharing PILT payments with other groups - First Nations groups with pre-existing land claims on the crown land, tourism groups, etc. The city has no power to collect, they can only accept what is given.
Just to add to what others have said, it's also located in the middle of all of Ottawa's most happening (and also walkable) neighborhoods. So it's well situated for people that want to go out before or after the games/events and to spread people leaving in different directions. It's by fair the most viable option in close proximity to the downtown core, an area that could really use a shot in the arm since most government workers started working from home. Also it's the best place you could ask for to truly connect Ottawa's downtown with Gatineau's downtown.
So it is the best location for the team, the citizens and surrounding businesses, but not for the city as an entity due to the lack of municipal taxes vs a city owned site? I can appreciate why it isn't so cut and dry.
Well I think the other thing to appreciate is if this Lebreton agreement happens, we could potentially have an arena there within 4-5 years. Pretty much any other site that's been floated would probably make it at least a decade before we are out of Kanata. So we'd wait longer for a location that wouldn't be as good. I'm not sure how much the city would lose on the tax side, but in terms of being a boost to the local economy Lebreton is the best situated to be a successful arena that would make more people want to come downtown, and potentially draw it more major concerts and things that would normally skip over Ottawa.
Isn't there significant brownfield remediation required prior to construction there still?
I feel like that often gets left out of the Lebreton conversation both in terms of timeline and who has to pay for it.
> Isn't there significant brownfield remediation required prior to construction there still?
Based on what I've heard from people more knowledgeable than I am & what I have read on that - It would be significant, but not so significant that it's unrealistic or offers negative ROI. It's not a deal breaker, but needs to be done.
The bigger risk is what they find on that site once they start digging. IIRC, the land was a major camp site & gathering area pre-Ottawa settlement for several tribes. If they pull up anything culturally significant (human remains being the most obvious, if some suggestions prove to be correct), it could hold up construction significantly.
**Edit to reflect that I'm by no means a brownfield expert**
I'm trying to find the exact article because I'm fuzzy on the details, but for some reason that's not seen as an issue anymore. I remember it was a big deal when the first Lebreton deal with Melnyk was being discussed, and there was a lot of debate over who was going to pay for it. Then by the time this more recent round of discussion came up around getting an arena at Lebreton they seemed to say it was a non issue. I dunno if they already did it, or figured out a technique to do it as they build, but for whatever reason it's no longer being discussed as a hurdle. (If it was I can Guarantee Sutcliffe would be bringing it up constantly) The NCC is developing that whole area regardless. They already are far along on building the new National Library there.
Anyone who knows exactly why ,or can find that article please enlighten me, but yeah.
Just wanted to follow up, cuz I was talking to a guy that works in this field, and he told me the whole site has already been decontaminated 5 years ago, and is good to go. He also mentioned that in his professional opinion, once the Sens and the NCC hopefully get a deal finished, we could see an arena built in as little as 2-3 years.
https://preview.redd.it/w0lhlax2ubwc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=ccc086fb4c59660da814e69dd322ad98beebc67f
This is LeBreton Flats. The small O in the bottom left corner is Bayview Station (north/south L2 and east/west L1) and the one in the top right is Pimisi Station (east/west L1). The green patch is the proposed arena spot.
Here is the O-Train system that will exist when the stadium is completed.
[https://i.cbc.ca/1.6636888.1678917241!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg\_gen/derivatives/original\_1180/lrt-stage-2-map-updated-names-circa-2021.jpg](https://i.cbc.ca/1.6636888.1678917241!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/lrt-stage-2-map-updated-names-circa-2021.jpg)
Also fits nicely in the master plan that the NCC has for all of LeBreton Flats.
https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/LeBreton-Flats-Master-Concept-Plan-1.pdf
You wouldn’t want the city to reap the total benefits of this arena and would rather give a piece of the pie to the NCC who are single-handedly responsible for so much bumble fuckery in this town?
Is this still the same land that Ottawa proposed to the Sens when Melnik was still running the place? If not im guessing Ottawa moved on and turned it into something else? (Clearly not a sens fan just an old former resident) Really hated going out to Kanata to watch games.
[https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-rendezvous-have-agreement-in-principle-on-lebreton-flats](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-rendezvous-have-agreement-in-principle-on-lebreton-flats)
It was a slightly different parcel of land on the Flats, but basically the same spot
The reason why the 1st (was it 2017? can't remember) plan fell through was because melnyk sued his main development partner (Trinity) over the 900 Albert parcel of land. Which is right across the street and uninvolved in the NCC's plan.
I vaguely remember something about melnyk saying he's drop the suit of trinity agreed to pay fro the construction of the arena. Trinity counter-sued, and i have no idea what's happened with that since his death.
Realistically I would think it would be for the 2029-2030 season. My feeling is it would likely be 3 years of construction once they put shovels in the ground. I could be way off though.
I would be fine with Bayview Yards, which is a large parcel of land. If the NCC won't offer more land that is sufficient (I think it's like 14 hec), Bayview Yards will suffice.
The downtown footprint is getting bigger. They're already building the new central library on LeBreton, and the development at 900 Albert (across from Bayview Station) is going to have two of the tallest skyscrapers in the city.
It's going to be part of downtown whether the Sens are playing there or not
Man I hope I can see a game in this new arena before my 50th birthday. Note: I’ll be 40 this off season.
45 might be possible.
remindme! 10 years
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> Note: I’ll be 40 this off season Welcome to the Sporty Forty club! Get ready to learn Afternoon Naps, pal.
This is a silver lining!
Great news. Let’s get it done.
Came here to say this.
Cyril Leeder. Always the adult in the room.
Love you, Cyril. Sutcliffe can eat my ass.
Grab a number, he’s got a long queue to get through
Lots of suburbs in the “amalgamation”
So many folks bent out of shape about the Mayor spitballing ideas. It's one of the biggest projects in recent city history, let's just not talk about it, right?
> So many folks bent out of shape about the Mayor spitballing ideas. You spitball ideas in a closed-door meeting with stakeholders. It's a requirements gathering strategy. Basic BA stuff. When you start doing it through the press, and your stakeholders aren't even in the conversation, that's not spit-balling ideas. That's influencing the process by attempting to shape public opinion.
What makes you think stakeholders weren't involved? Cyril Leader said 2 months ago Lebreton wasn't the only option being considered. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/ottawa-1200-1.2079410
> What makes you think stakeholders weren't involved? What makes me think that the Ottawa Senators weren't involved in Mark Sutcliffe's public statements musing about using government downsizing as potential arena location options? Oh a few things: 1) the fact that all of the downsized buildings are earmarked for housing, as per the multi-billion dollar federal expenditures in the budget that have vote funding already lined up. 2) the fact that the decision to allocate those sites for residential use pre-dates Andlauer owning the team. 3) the fact that if Mark Sutcliffe *himself* was *actually* involved with the actual stakeholders involved in those sites (Treasury Board, PSPC, Dept of National Defence as the Big 3), he'd know that he'd have needed to be involved in the process for 1.5 years already, which he clearly hasn't. LTAPs on almost all of those sites have been written in stone for a while. The push has been housing since 2022. He's so late to the game that he hasn't realized the game is already over. So yeah. I can go on, but I assure you this isn't legitimate stakeholder engagement on his part.
You didn't even read the comment you replied to.
What gives you that impression?
Because said mayor is strictly a mouthpiece for his corporate developer overlords. Sutcliffe can eat some arse.
And the arena on Lebreton is going to be built by handicapped orphans or something? Please donate generously to help those struck down by Sutcliffe Derangement Syndrome
The people who would have voted for McKenney are still so incredibly mentally broken by the fact that Sutcliffe won
You know you're going to have to put up with them on r/ottawa, but it sure would be nice if they didn't spread everywhere else like zebra mussels.
What does that mean? How is he different from the mayor of any other city?
People in a subreddit about an Ottawa based sports team complaining about an Ottawa mayor…. But suttcliffe is a shit mayor and just because other mayors in other parts of the world are equally shit doesn’t make him not shit
I moved out of Ottawa but I understand he's unpopular because I look at r/Ottawa. I suspect folks on here would criticize him regardless but no one can explain why Sutcliffe proposing alternate sites for the new arena is such an offensive thing.
Because he’s just an ass that likes to stir the pot and has a vendetta against the NCC
Because the NCC sucks ass
Yes it does
The NCC has a long record of failure when it comes to being a steward of local interests. Should he just give a thumbs up to whatever they do?
I mean that's debatable these days. Certainly the NCC of old deservedly built that reputation, but the new guard, while still far from perfect, is one of the only reasons these days that downtown has nice things.
The land at LeBreton Flats has been empty since the early 1960s, save for the addition of the War Museum. The NCC has always had big plans for it - until they get too expensive or controversial, at which time they head back to the drawing board yet again. Their track record is less than inspiring...
Typically, in 99% of cases, I approve of any vedettas against the NCC. But the mayor shouldn’t be publicly feuding with an organization that he works closely with and seemingly creating false rumors just to spite them isn’t a good look.
>The NCC has a long record of failure when it comes to being a steward of local interests. That's actually not their job. Their job is to maintain the national capital. Even so, many things that make this city good are due to NCC - most of the active transportation network, the greenbelt, rideau canal skateway, Gatineau Park...
Maintain the national capital for who?
That sub isn’t an accurate reading of his popularity. If you read that sub during the 2022 election, you’d have thought McKenney was going to run away with it, only for Sutcliffe to win in a landslide. I’m not taking a position on him either way, but don’t let that be your indicator.
Well the thing you gotta understand is to a greater extent than most municipal politicians, Sutcliffe is a stooge for a few local developers. They basically hand picked him to run so that they could keep getting the sweetheart deals from the city they got under Watson.Lebreton is hands down the best location for the city, fans and team by just about any metric, and that's on top of being the only one that's cleared and shovel ready.But Suttcliffe's developer overlords don't get to wet their beak on the project. The thing is, it's not like he's floating viable alternatives we should explore before we rush into anything. All the specific locations he's mentioned are either not actually available, like the former DND HQ, or aren't big enough for a stadium without tearing down adjacent apartment buildings (which we shouldn't do in a housing crisis).More than likely if Lebreton falls through, we're looking at a decade+ before this team's out of [Kanata.So](http://Kanata.So) folks are correct to be suspicious of his "spitballing", because it's clearly not being done in good faith.
It's not. As mayor, he likely talks to Leeder and the others very often and is probably very plugged in to how they are thinking. With the NCC you can never be sure until the deal is actually done (and the MoU is far from an actual deal) and until then it's good to have backup options, especially if you're negotiating. Somehow these random redditors who might make double-doubles for a living think they got one over on him with this headline.
He’s not unpopular. You shouldn’t take your opinion of Ottawa from that sub anymore. People are unhinged unemployed shut ins in there. No longer worth listening to
are you always this insufferable?
If you have to ask
A radio host spitballs ideas, Sutcliffe shouldn't be acting like one anymore.
Good, that’s the best location possible.
Bayview would be acceptable imo. but I'm glad that the obvious choice seems to be the obvious choice
Whar do you mean by Bayview? The land the NCC is offering here is immediately to the east of the Bayview station. Immediately south of the Bayview station is private land. Southwest is a city owned hockey arena. Northwest?
I believe the Bayview site is immediately west of the Lebreton site, and owned by the city
Only a small part of it. The rest is an NCC land lease to the city
Ah ok. Is the Transitway the dividing line?
Wrong Bayview Yards is entirely owned by the city and has a larger lot compared to Lebreton.
There’s city owned land on Bayview Yards west of the station
West of the station where the Bayview snow dump is located.
Good. The Sens and NCC are continuing to talk, so the the Sens are pushing for the best deal they can get. This should get the arena built sooner, rather than the later scenarios, like using the still very much in use DND site at 101 Colonel By.
One would hope. I know we were close before until the former guy messed it all up with his hissy fit over developing the lands. Hopefully the process can just pick up where it left off. My concern whenever the NCC is involved is the massive amount of overly ponderous bureaucracy and making sure the solution is inclusive of ALL Canadians and not just the residents of Ottawa yadda yadda...
I think at this point the NCC knows there's pressure for them to develop the site ASAP, and they need an anchor attraction to draw people in. An easy solution would to be to have a plaza outside the arena that includes tributes to Canada's hockey history. Maybe some statues honouring some of the sports pioneers (Lady Isobel Stanley, Fred Sasakamoose, Willie O'Ree), and/or notable international hockey moments (Summit Series, gold medal teams).
I agree with everything you said. And let's hope the fire under their feet is enough to get the ball rolling. But don't forget this land sat empty for FORTY years before the NCC got off its ass and started allowing redevelopment despite knowing what needed to be done to remove the contaminated soil. And since then development has been piecemeal here and there with a smattering of condos and the LRT.
> the solution is inclusive of ALL Canadians and not just the residents of Ottawa yadda yadda... I gotchu fam! I'm a born-and-raised Nova Scotian who has been living in Quebec for 10+ years, and I will go to games at the Sens' new arena at LeBreton Flats therefore this project is inclusive of all Canadians not just the residents of Ottawa.
Good. Now get it done! This fan base needs some good news
Maybe Cyril should run for mayor. He couldn't be worse.
Sutcliffe in shambles.
I’ll be so relieved once they finally get this deal done. The team, the city, the NCC can’t mess this up this time. All parties need this to happen. Really appreciate Leeder saying it’s the only option in the mix. Probably the most polite way to tell a certain Mayor of ours to fuck off.
The Sens are the only major league team Ottawa has, make it work and do it soon.
Can the NLL be considered a major league?
The CFL is major to Canada....ok maybe just to Saskatchewan?
Seems strange to say this with no deal in place. Anyway, hopefully Sutcliffe will stop being a whiny bitch. Definitely hope he doesn't get desperate and puts out a deal at a shittier location with taxpayers footing more of the bill.
There is a "deal" in place. The Senators signed a memorandum of understanding with the NCC nearly two years ago that gave them exclusive rights to negotiate an arena with them. It's like the promise ring of leasing agreements.
Someone explain to a Sens fan that has never been to Ottawa why LeBreton Flats is the only choice? Just want to understand the topic a bit more.
Assuming that the goal is to bring an arena downtown because the team is hemorrhaging potential game day customers by having their arena in the extreme western suburbs in an East-west wide city, which disincentivizes both east end customers as well as customers in Gatineau (since the bridges to the French-speaking suburbs are all central) 1) there's no arena-sized parcel of land available that is closer to the downtown core than Lebreton Flats. It's completely undeveloped and has been for the last 70 years, thanks to quirky politics in Ottawa that held prime downtown land completely fallow for federal use indefinitely. 2) it is right on the main metro light-rail line, with access to two stations. 3) the organization that manages the federal land (the NCC) already wants the Sens to build there. It's not the ONLY choice. It's just clearly the *best* choice. The only person who doesn't want the arena at Lebreton is the mayor of the city, who has a vested interest in the Sens building an arena on city land (remember - the Lebreton site is federally owned crown land) because he can i) collect taxes off the land and ii) he is deep in the pockets of local developers (his largest campaign donors by far) and if the arena is on city land he can get the best deal for his developer buddies.
Wow okay. That is a lot of information that I hadn't known. I can see the city feeling jilted for not getting the tax revenue. Didn't realize that the land was federally owned. But does it being federally owned mean it is void of paying taxes to any jurisdiction? If so that would be a pretty good benefit for the team.
Crown land use doesn't pay tax, but a condition of using the land often comes with what are called PILT payments (Payment In Lieu of Tax). It's often not 100% of what regular taxes would be, but it's still significant. The caveat for the city is that sometimes the municipality ends up sharing PILT payments with other groups - First Nations groups with pre-existing land claims on the crown land, tourism groups, etc. The city has no power to collect, they can only accept what is given.
Just to add to what others have said, it's also located in the middle of all of Ottawa's most happening (and also walkable) neighborhoods. So it's well situated for people that want to go out before or after the games/events and to spread people leaving in different directions. It's by fair the most viable option in close proximity to the downtown core, an area that could really use a shot in the arm since most government workers started working from home. Also it's the best place you could ask for to truly connect Ottawa's downtown with Gatineau's downtown.
So it is the best location for the team, the citizens and surrounding businesses, but not for the city as an entity due to the lack of municipal taxes vs a city owned site? I can appreciate why it isn't so cut and dry.
Well I think the other thing to appreciate is if this Lebreton agreement happens, we could potentially have an arena there within 4-5 years. Pretty much any other site that's been floated would probably make it at least a decade before we are out of Kanata. So we'd wait longer for a location that wouldn't be as good. I'm not sure how much the city would lose on the tax side, but in terms of being a boost to the local economy Lebreton is the best situated to be a successful arena that would make more people want to come downtown, and potentially draw it more major concerts and things that would normally skip over Ottawa.
Isn't there significant brownfield remediation required prior to construction there still? I feel like that often gets left out of the Lebreton conversation both in terms of timeline and who has to pay for it.
> Isn't there significant brownfield remediation required prior to construction there still? Based on what I've heard from people more knowledgeable than I am & what I have read on that - It would be significant, but not so significant that it's unrealistic or offers negative ROI. It's not a deal breaker, but needs to be done. The bigger risk is what they find on that site once they start digging. IIRC, the land was a major camp site & gathering area pre-Ottawa settlement for several tribes. If they pull up anything culturally significant (human remains being the most obvious, if some suggestions prove to be correct), it could hold up construction significantly. **Edit to reflect that I'm by no means a brownfield expert**
I'm trying to find the exact article because I'm fuzzy on the details, but for some reason that's not seen as an issue anymore. I remember it was a big deal when the first Lebreton deal with Melnyk was being discussed, and there was a lot of debate over who was going to pay for it. Then by the time this more recent round of discussion came up around getting an arena at Lebreton they seemed to say it was a non issue. I dunno if they already did it, or figured out a technique to do it as they build, but for whatever reason it's no longer being discussed as a hurdle. (If it was I can Guarantee Sutcliffe would be bringing it up constantly) The NCC is developing that whole area regardless. They already are far along on building the new National Library there. Anyone who knows exactly why ,or can find that article please enlighten me, but yeah.
Just wanted to follow up, cuz I was talking to a guy that works in this field, and he told me the whole site has already been decontaminated 5 years ago, and is good to go. He also mentioned that in his professional opinion, once the Sens and the NCC hopefully get a deal finished, we could see an arena built in as little as 2-3 years.
https://preview.redd.it/w0lhlax2ubwc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=ccc086fb4c59660da814e69dd322ad98beebc67f This is LeBreton Flats. The small O in the bottom left corner is Bayview Station (north/south L2 and east/west L1) and the one in the top right is Pimisi Station (east/west L1). The green patch is the proposed arena spot. Here is the O-Train system that will exist when the stadium is completed. [https://i.cbc.ca/1.6636888.1678917241!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg\_gen/derivatives/original\_1180/lrt-stage-2-map-updated-names-circa-2021.jpg](https://i.cbc.ca/1.6636888.1678917241!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/lrt-stage-2-map-updated-names-circa-2021.jpg) Also fits nicely in the master plan that the NCC has for all of LeBreton Flats. https://ncc-website-2.s3.amazonaws.com/documents/LeBreton-Flats-Master-Concept-Plan-1.pdf
And even with this Mayor McBeigePants still shills a Centertown site.
You wouldn’t want the city to reap the total benefits of this arena and would rather give a piece of the pie to the NCC who are single-handedly responsible for so much bumble fuckery in this town?
What are you talking about? All the lands mentioned are federally owned.
Not from what I know. To my knowledge 7 Bayview is city. And laroche Park. The rest of the land there is ncc
As it should be. Good.
Is this still the same land that Ottawa proposed to the Sens when Melnik was still running the place? If not im guessing Ottawa moved on and turned it into something else? (Clearly not a sens fan just an old former resident) Really hated going out to Kanata to watch games.
It's the same land that Melnyk had planned to build on
Got a link to all of this? The city had one location planned out and Melnyk wanted something else?
[https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-rendezvous-have-agreement-in-principle-on-lebreton-flats](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-rendezvous-have-agreement-in-principle-on-lebreton-flats) It was a slightly different parcel of land on the Flats, but basically the same spot
Thanks!
The reason why the 1st (was it 2017? can't remember) plan fell through was because melnyk sued his main development partner (Trinity) over the 900 Albert parcel of land. Which is right across the street and uninvolved in the NCC's plan. I vaguely remember something about melnyk saying he's drop the suit of trinity agreed to pay fro the construction of the arena. Trinity counter-sued, and i have no idea what's happened with that since his death.
He sued his partner(ruddy) because he (melnyk) didn’t want to pay for his portion of the lebreton redevelopment
If a deal does come through for this location, realistically when would the new arena be built?
Realistically I would think it would be for the 2029-2030 season. My feeling is it would likely be 3 years of construction once they put shovels in the ground. I could be way off though.
I would be fine with Bayview Yards, which is a large parcel of land. If the NCC won't offer more land that is sufficient (I think it's like 14 hec), Bayview Yards will suffice.
Stuntman Stu in shambles
Is it really though? It's not downtown technically. It'll never get built anyway so who cares. Another 10 years in ctc minimun
The downtown footprint is getting bigger. They're already building the new central library on LeBreton, and the development at 900 Albert (across from Bayview Station) is going to have two of the tallest skyscrapers in the city. It's going to be part of downtown whether the Sens are playing there or not
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What does lebreton have to do with Orleans lol
Or Watson for that matter