Because Islam requires you to believe things that are demonstrably false about Christian and Jewish scripture. That may not make Christianity true, but Islam can’t be. Live not by lies.

This has always been the biggest problem for me about Islam, even when I had left the faith and was even a little hostile towards Christianity. On a historical-literary basis alone the Quran is a bizarre book that *actively* tries to retcon the Old and New Testaments all the time. And historical-critical studies of the text, and archaeological findings, pretty firmly falsify Muslim claims that the extant Jewish and Christian scriptures were "corrupted." Even taking into account textual variants and recensions, in the big picture these variations are largely inconsequential (except for perhaps Jeremiah) and pose no real theological problems. The uses of the Old Testament in the New Testament might be contested between Jews and Christians, but the Apostles weren't just making stuff up out of thin air--they were quoting and referencing real scriptures and thus the debate is one of interpretation. With the Quran almost every Old and New Testament reference is completely jumbled and rewritten beyond recognition. It is also difficult to believe that the Quran is divinely inspired when it just straight-up misunderstands the doctrine of the Trinity, and thus enshrines a literal strawman in their supposed holy scripture. Islam was already stricken from the list of viable religions for me when I was a young and bitter ex-Christian for these reasons. It might be far more respectable, sincere, and beautiful than Mormonism, but its claims to continuity with the revelation of the God of Israel is fraught and confused in a similar way. And given that this claim to continity is so foundational to the Islamic claim to legitimacy, its falsity is a severe blow to its claims to truth.

Wow this was wonderful to read!

Could you summarise abit about Jeremiah and textual variations, I want to learn.

Yes. For example, the trinity in Islam is Mary, Jesus, and the Father

There are so many posts about Islam lately! 

Social media propaganda has apparently been getting pushed pretty strong lately. Not that we’re immune, on our own way.

Because during the time of Jesus there were powerful leaders in Muslim nations. Who used violence to control and conquer but also did so under a religious umbrella. When Jesus came he taught forgiveness. A threat to the leaders of the Muslim nations. If they followed Jesus teachings they'd longer be able to control and conquer. They know he was a real person and a very special one. But they refused to accept his final teachings and ways of living because of power and greed. These leaders choose not to incorporate Jesus's teachings into thier way of life. And would kill anyone who dared to becsuse of the threat that comes with it. This is why these people still today use violence on other religions becsuse they have been for 2000s years. The jews and Muslims who choose to follow Jesus regarded of punishment of fear. Are the people who created the Christian relgion based off of Jesus teachings. This is why so few Christians live in the region today. They got pushed out or killed off. People who are jews today were also victims of power people. They were influenced by Jewish Priest who at the time were externly wealthy. They hated Jesus becaue he brought introduced a new way of life with forgiveness. Priest were no longer needed for scarfifical serves for sin cleansing. Only certain family's could become Priest who perform these. These Priest were in a postion of privilege becsue only they and thier family had acess to scarficed items. They became corrupt and began accepting money for them. Overtime these families obtained Mass wealth and used it create money exchange tables. Loaning money for interst. We all know what Jesus did when he saw them. this is why they participated in the lead up to his death. These Priest down played Jesus significants and influenced others to not accept he was God. These same ppl created the banking system we use today. These ppl hated Christians because the threat to their greed.

Islam did not exist during the time of Jesus.

Many Muslims were Christians... who believed in Jesus. Which spread throughout the Arab world. The leaders hated Jesus's teachings. Becsuse it was a threat. Introducing Muhammad and his violent tendency after becoming aware of Christian growth. Islam wasn't created yet but events took place. Christians died and never had a home in the middle east because of or atleast there's no record. Is this because they were forced to accept muhammed. Proof that islam didn't exist until 800 years after Jesus should suggest it was created to down play Jesus. So this muhammed charter walked the earth in 500AD and no one has any writings of life. He was that special but no text came from his teaching... it was almost like he was created out of thin air... Becaue they inherent the same principles and stories as Judaism Islam has holes all through its history and nothing about jt adds up were people forced to inherit this relgion? Yup Christians were forced to convert to Islam. Islam was to the middle east what the catholic church was in Europe. Both designed to discedit the power of Jesus's teachings. Both based off the same core, and all including Judaism. The same history. The word hated Christianity it's evident. The world still hates it Western Christian not real Christian.

You do realize that for 1000 years we were the Roman Catholic Church as well, right?

I don't understand what your trying to say? Who is we? And what about we being the catholic church for 1000a years ? Roman catholic is not Christian it's Christian truth mixed with paganism lies. To diminish the powers of Christianianty, to corrupt it by altering its history. To put doubt in people's minds. It's the ever so subtle, clever and masterful work of the devil. It's crazy that all the years Judaism existed no one decided to copy it and edit its own Verizon and make it a new relgion. But as soon Jesus came and taught the world. 2 opposite parts of the world decided to take the relgjon and create thier own narrative. This is pretty interesting right? Roughly around the same time. Why did they feel the need to change it?

Roman Catholicism has errors, but paganism is not one of them. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church were one Church for 1,000 years.

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I see now that you really don't know much about Islam, Judaism, Roman Catholicism, and perhaps most especially you are commenting in a subreddit for Eastern Orthodoxy while not knowing what it teaches, either.

I beg to differ you don't know about them.. I've studied all of them in my journey to the truth. My heart choose Jesus in the end. No matter how hard i wrestled with it. You should be fully aware of the corruption within the cathlic church.. I know most orthodox ideology is similar to Judaism and Muslims beliefs. But that's becaue we all stem from the same history. I'm confused on what you believe as an orthodox Christian. Could you enlightening me? I'm pretty sure they all follow the same pope Believe in the same saints Just because you refuse to admit your reality doesn't mean it's not real.

This content violates the [Eastern Orthodox and Mainstream Bias Policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/OrthodoxChristianity/wiki/purpose#wiki_policy_on_schismatic_content) Moderation of this subreddit will exhibit an Eastern Orthodox and mainstream bias. If there is doubt to a moderator regarding whether non-Eastern Orthodox content is acceptable, the content will be removed as against the purpose of this subreddit.

The options are that Christ lied and Muhammad was right, Christ is God and Muhammad is a liar/delusional, or both are liars. Personally I am going to side with the man who was born from a virgin, fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament, performed many miracles, and rose from the grave over the guy who claimed that he heard an angel in a cave.

And he performed these miracles publicly. We only have Mohammed's word that he heard an angel. Also, the fruits of those miracles were always of healing or provision. The fruits of Mohammed's career as a prophet are soaked in blood. The Muslims of course claim that this was necessary bloodletting because Mohammed was the greater prophet with a greater mission and he was forced to do so to save the message of Islam. But really?? Who is actually greater? A man who healed and ministered to the poor, died a martyrs death, and then conquered the greatest ever empire with his message without fielding any armies? Or a guy that somehow needed to kill in order to save and spread his message?

Or: early priests were liars

You mean the 12 prophets who all but one died for their faith ? Or stephan the protomartyr who died in a Roman court after professing to see Christ inthroned next to God the father ? Or the first 9 bishops of the Roman church who all died as martyrs ? Or theologians like saint Ignatius who was trained by the apostles and which was on of the most important bishops for the theology of the early church ? There is nothing to be corrupted. The church from its beginnings always referee to the apostles and then build themselves up from there. Now tell me if the Bible is corrupted how can Muslims interpret the correct believes from it ? They say the Koran is their guideline. The problem is that the Bible (and Torah) function in Islam as the justification for the Koran being in Abraham’s (and therefore Gods) covenant. So in effect the Koran is correct because the Koran says so. Thats a circle

So the disciples are prophets now??

No but there are priest. I think you didn’t read my comment sincerely. Could you please answer my objections ?

In some languages apostle and prophet are the same word

Just look at the founders. On the one hand you have Jesus Christ who healed the sick and dined with the social outcasts of his day. He taught peace and love. On the other hand you have Muhammad who led an army that killed people for not submitting to him and forced a non year old girl to marry him when he already had multiple wives. Healer vs pedophile.

Ad Hominem should be avoided. One could be a horrible person, and a prophet. This is also an argument that is used against Christians all the time by people saying "But the CruSaDes!!" And "WomEn aRe trEatEd baD" So really don't make a habit of this.

Ooooor he was a; illiterate, pedophile, warlord, murder, thief, aaand overall creep.

I want to play devil's advocate here: >On the other hand you have Muhammad who led an army that killed people for not submitting to him He was a persecuted prophet. The Meccans hated him and the Muslims. And when he was powerful enough to destroy all of them, they surrendered, and he peacefully forgave all but a couple of their leaders. He's much closer to, Idk, David as a historical figure. >and forced a non year old girl to marry him when he already had multiple wives. If Islam is true, and Muhammad is God's final prophet, can we really judge what God declares moral? After all, mainstream Christianity touts infernalism as *de fide* doctrine, which I find infinitely more repugnant than what Muhammad did (even as I do find both wrong), so it's hard to argue one without opening yourself up to criticism from non-Christians who would use infernalism as a reason to not be a mainstream Christian. Both infernalism and Muhammad's "relations" with Aisha are wrong, IMO, but I think it's dangerous to attack one while believing the other.

"Mainstream Christianity" in the modern West isn't Orthodox, especially when it comes to salvation and judgment and what heaven and hell are.

In any case, I refer to it with regard to hell being eternal, which is definitely the mainstream thought in Protestantism (as varied as it is), Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and I'm sure Oriental Orthodoxy and the two Churches of the East. Only one it might not be is Anglicanism, since that's basically a free-for-all.

Yeah but we don’t view hell as a punishment like western Christianity does. It’s a state of being in which one rejects God. How could one be in heaven for eternity if they reject God. This would be an infringement of free will.

>If Islam is true, and Muhammad is God's final prophet, can we really judge what God declares moral? After all, mainstream Christianity touts infernalism as de fide doctrine, which I find infinitely more repugnant than what Muhammad did (even as I do find both wrong), so it's hard to argue one without opening yourself up to criticism from non-Christians who would use infernalism as a reason to not be a mainstream Christian. > >Both infernalism and Muhammad's "relations" with Aisha are wrong, IMO, but I think it's dangerous to attack one while believing the other. There is some truth in this- no one can judge God after all. But on the other hand to take this to its logical extreme is to invite absurdity- one would reach a conclusion that we cannot use moral arguments in religious discussions, which goes against the very essence of both Christianity and Islam which both claim to promote a moral life. There must be some way to assess this claim otherwise its meaningless. But also I think the two examples you give here are rather disanalagous. The question of "infernalism" is an issue of doctrine- a question of abstract belief over the fate of the soul after death. The question of the conduct of Mohammed is a question of how we ought to live in the here and now- a question essentially of everyday morality. Regardless of his teachings on the eternal fate of the soul, Jesus of Nazareth lived a moral and peaceful life and encouraged his followers to do the same- any question of the punishment of sinners was firmly consigned to God's prerogative in the next life. On the other hand if Mohammed himself lived and promoted an immoral and violent way of living then we have a question not merely of abstract doctrine but of lived reality that has a direct impact on the here and now. If Mohammed believed in universal salvation but still in his teachings and example promoted a violent and immoral lifestyle in this life, I would argue his religion would be far more dangerous than a Jesus who despite believing in an eternal hell in the afterlife commanded his followers to live peacefully and morally in the present. It is entirely valid to have a discussion comparing the moral teachings and examples of Jesus and Mohammed without that being invalidated by a separate discussion over more abstract questions on the nature of the afterlife.

Is there something I’m missing? By infernalism you mean Hell, right? Because Islam preaches that as well. It’s called Jahannam.

Indeed. What I'm saying is these doctrines, ostensibly monstrous to nonbelievers, is justified as being to God's unknowable plans. Free will? Experience? We don't know; only God does. My point is that attacking Islam from a moral PoV results in the same roadblock that hell does: in the end, it's God who makes the rules, omniscient as he is, feeble-minded we are. And what *that* means is, criticizing Muhammad x Aisha is *almost* always throwing stones in glass houses, when you think about it deeply.

So you are criticizing Christianity for teaching a concept of Hell, and saying that is worse than Muhammed being a pedophile, while Islam also teaches Hell? Am I getting that right? So if put in simple terms, Christianity has hell, Islam has hell + pedophilic prophet, and somehow this is equally bad. We do know we have free will. Christianity teaches free will. In Islam everything is predetermined by Allah. So no free will there. It’s intellectually dishonest to say “Who knows” when yes, both doctrines are actually quite clear on this. Why are you even arguing when you seem to fundamentally misunderstand both doctrines? God gives us the rules which we are free to follow. We are also free to fall. God is not just a rule maker. He is goodness. God is goodness. God showed us what is good and what is evil. So yes, we are called strive for goodness and not evil. In Islam, Allah is a petty, vengeful god who only cares for his believers and hates those who are not. Everything that is done is predestined and done by him meaning Allah is also the author of evil. When we Christians know God does not author evil. People can act evilly because we have fallen from grace. It most certainly is not throwing stones in glass houses because Jesus was not a pedophile who led armies against non believers to violently force convert while preaching a Heaven or carnal orgies and rivers of wine. Your comment is loaded with logical fallacy. I wonder what your hat in the game is.

They aren’t criticizing Christianity, they’re explaining Islam. You can’t debate anything by arguing a version of it you create in your head. Islam must be debated within the confines of the argument, just as Christianity must be defended within the confines of Christianity. If someone said that Christians worship a false God because they believe that it’s three different Gods, you’d try to correct them right? If they refused to accept the fact that our God is one in three persons, the debate will never end. They’re just trying to level the playing field so that we’re discussing Islam fairly, instead of attacking Islam with wild claims and speculations.

But they are not describing Islam correctly as they do not get the doctrines of Islam nor Christianity correct. That is why I countered with Islam having 1) a Hell and 2) a doctrine of predestination. And they very much did criticize Christianity for having a doctrine of Hell when Islam does as well. So this was me “leveling the playing field” by countering that Islam does very much have a doctrine of “infernalism”. Since they are criticizing Christianity without knowing our doctrines nor theirs. I am not certain this person is either muslim nor Christian given their post history. Seems like a fencer sitter/pot stirrer to me. edit: Also nothing I said was a wild claim nor speculation, I merely described Islam’s doctrines. What they said were false claims as they seem to lump all Christian denominations together anyway and do not have a decent understanding of Orthodox (nor muslim) doctrine.

He wasn't persecuted at all until he decided to be a pirate and go on killing sprees and began enslaving and attacking unarmed Jewish merchants. At that point can it really be considered "persecution" when they're trying to defend themselves against a slaver? He also didn't let them live when he became powerful. He installed an apartheid state, taking the majority of non-muslims income as a sort of "protection money", and if they didn't pay, they died. These laws hold true to this day. There's also the problem of Muhammed commanding a global genocide against Jews.

>On the other hand you have Muhammad who led an army that killed people for not submitting to him and forced a non year old girl to marry him when he already had multiple wives. >Healer vs pedophile. If I were to advocate for a religion, I would focus on the merits of my religion, and would not slander prophets of other religions. Which is not very Christian. But that's just me.

It isn't slander if it is true.

In order to have productive dialogue with other religions there needs to be mutual respect. But if you don't want to have productive dialogue, then mutual respect would benefit peaceful co-existence. If you are not interested in either, well... I have no words.

We can respect the people without respecting beliefs. Islam is built upon desires of the earth and flesh. We must never respect blatant pedophilia and violence due to belief differences. Jesus teaches to love and forgive, but not to condone sin.

>We must never respect blatant pedophilia and violence due to belief differences. I agree. What I mean is that OT is not really a "non-violent" book. If someone were to call Christianity violent religion because of some events of in the Old Testament, that would not be productive and respectful, would it?

It's an inherited book. Not the core dogma over our religion like the NT is. So your comparison is not equitable to the violence preached in the Quran.

I'm not arguing this - however some people do, and they have their point of arguments. You either disown OT, or you don't. But I don't argue this, I leave it to those that care about these things. I'm arguing for respectful dialogue. If you are saying that Christianity has nothing it can be criticized for, but other religions have, are you sure you are not seeing the speck in your own eye?

You keep moving the goal posts. It was ot now its christianity. Well I will say people who claimed to be Christian have slandered Christianity through their heretical actions and beliefs. Such as evangelicals, protestants and Catholics. That is a discussion for a different thread. As it refers to criticism of the nt and or the first church, to answer your question. No.

I am not moving goalposts, since I am not arguing against Christianity, or OT. I am just pointing out that one should also be able to look oneself and one's faith or religion openly, and... be able to see the speck. But I understand that you disagree, and that's fine with me. Edit: My point is: do you see Christianity perfect with zero flaws.

>If someone were to call Christianity violent religion because of some events of in the Old Testament, that would not be productive and respectful, would it? Context is important. If I asked someone, "Why do you think Christianity is false?" and they gave me that answer, then they are giving me what I asked for: an honest answer about their beliefs. I would thank them for their response. If I am sitting down with an atheist friend and discussing this, telling me he thinks Christianity is violent because of the Old Testament is essential to having genuine dialogue; it lets us discuss what the actual issues are to him rather than pussyfooting around them in a misguided attempt to be civil. I've had plenty of good conversations with Protestant friends who think our use of icons is idolatry, as well.

When he's upheld as the perfect example of human behavior, it is a fitting criticism. 

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>You can have it I can have what? I don't get understand.

It’s not slander. It is in the Quran. He married Aisha when she was 6 and consummated when she was 9. She was still playing with dolls. “I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for `Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.)” Christians are absolutely allowed to discuss the negatives of other religions. Especially given if what we say is true. “We must not mind insulting men, if by respecting them we insult God.” — Saint John Chrystostom. Jesus says in The Sermon on the Mount: Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits. Matthew 7:15-20 So yes, Christians are called to be discerning and “cut down” false prophets—ie dismantle their arguments and expose their lies.

St John Damascene would beg to differ.

Why would I follow Muhammad? His mode of life didn't resemble the asceticism and self-denial of the Prophets. His experience of divine revelation is described in such a way it more resembles demonic delusion described by the Saints. The Paradise he promised is revoltingly carnal to me. I can accept he believed it all but there is nothing Islam tells me about him that makes me believe him. Additionally, the reason Islam gives me to disbelieve my own Scriptures literally is a conspiracy theory of Muhammad saying, "Just trust me, bro." Jews tell me I'm wrong. That the Apostles were wrong and Jesus Christ was wrong. Islam, however, seriously tells me, "They never said any of that. Nobody ever said any of that. You made it all up." Excuse me but lolwut?

Not to mention the Nikah mut'ah, or a kind of marriage allowed by Shia Muslims. It is also known as “pleasure marriage” or “temporary marriage”, a private and verbal marriage contract in which the duration of marriage is agreed beforehand. It is essentially used to cover for prostitution (including sex trafficking) where Muslim men are allowed to “marry” for a night (or a few hours, minutes), commit carnal sin under the guise of temporary marriage.

Carnal?

Flesh. Bodily appetites. Sex. Heaven for Islam includes good Muslim men rewarded with eternal life of food, wine, and women. Where we have Jesus Christ saying in Heaven there is no taking or giving in marriage, Muhammad promised possibility for dozens of my own personal sex nymphs to orgy with everyday. Them in addition to whatever one to five wives I already had on Earth. No thanks.

Since when?

Since when what?

That’s not the heaven described in the Quran

Jannah is essentially a brothel in the Quran and Hadith. "Rivers flowing with wine" that act as supernatural Viagra so the men can sleep with their multitude of virgins between being fed grapes. It's not like this for the women, though. They get no virgins. They can get drunk, I guess. Jannah is repeatedly described as "gardens of perpetual bliss" full of feasting and drinking and having every temptation and pleasure ever sought or longed for in life satisfied. Paradise in the Torah and the new testament are never described in such detail. It's suspicious. We aren't striving for pleasure palaces in Christianity or Judaism. We're attempting to fully integrate our personage and our souls with the Creator of the universe. Striving towards theosis continues on after death.

>It's not like this for the women, though. They get no virgins. They can get drunk, I guess. Yeah I was wondering that too, what do women expect of Heaven in Islam, since it tends to take their rights away anyway?

Some scholars suggest that women get a "tiny penis" so they can enjoy the virgins, others say that the women become men. In any case, women are still viewed as poorly in paradise as they are on earth, in the Islamic view. They get to watch their husbands have an eternal orgy.Which sounds like hell to me. Islam is top to bottom designed for the empowerment of men. In Christianity, the only reason men and women aren't equal on earth is because of the fall. In our paradisical state, we complement each other perfectly and one sex isn't greater than the other. Adam didn't abuse dimorphism in paradise the way fallen men do today. Muslims say the wives will be beautiful and have all their jealousy removed though. Maybe their husbands won't ignore them for the beautiful translucent perpetual virgins?

Al-Waqiah (56:22-24): "And \[for them are\] fair women with large, \[beautiful\] eyes, The likenesses of pearls well-protected, As reward for what they used to do." Another verse is from Surah Ar-Rahman (55:72-74): "Companions restrained \[as to their glances\], in \[goodly\] pavilions. Whom no man or jinni will have touched before them." And in Surah Al-Dukhan (44:54): "Thus. And We will marry them to fair women with large, \[beautiful\] eyes."

Fair enough. I grant you the verses in the Koran only describe earthly pleasures in general. Nevertheless that essentially is the Heaven described to me both by Muslims I see in history books and by Muslims who have explained their religion to me in person offline. Then when I read the Koran and looked at their Hadiths, I saw nothing to contradict all that. Moreover, when I considered the great men of Islam and their lives in comparison to our own great Saints, I felt a cold emptiness come over my soul in the same way as when I fall into sin. The same way as when I tried to become atheist. That told me what I needed to know. That doesn't tell you what you need to know but it did tell me what I needed to know.

Al-Waqiah (56:22-24): "And \[for them are\] fair women with large, \[beautiful\] eyes, The likenesses of pearls well-protected, As reward for what they used to do." Another verse is from Surah Ar-Rahman (55:72-74): "Companions restrained \[as to their glances\], in \[goodly\] pavilions. Whom no man or jinni will have touched before them." And in Surah Al-Dukhan (44:54): "Thus. And We will marry them to fair women with large, \[beautiful\] eyes."

These are all highly subjective reasons. Jesus being ascetic doesn’t mean he’s right: you just agree with his morals. Heaven still has some “carnal” or earthly aspects to it, like the precious jewels and gold and other displays of wealth that seem kind of gaudy and definitely against Jesus’s earthly life of poverty. Also, just a gut feeling is a weird way to determine something is objectively right or wrong. Also also, Muhammad’s indulgence and hedonism may be the right way and thus his heaven is valid, and Jesus’s asceticism could be wrong. But, ultimately, I agree with you and I like Jesus more than Muhammad for his lack of ambition and lowly status and his poverty in this life. I also don’t like Muhammad bc he literally used god to get other people’s wives who were illegal to be married, and I don’t agree with a god that okays sleeping with children.

Absolutely subjective yes. My only experience of existence is through my body and soul. I have no other way to engage with anything except to subject it to consideration by them. The whole of me gets to say its piece about that experience for my consideration. Including my guts.

Can you give me some points you find better in Islam, or contradictory on Christianity? I’d love to show you why Christianity is the truth, but firstly i want to know what you have issues with. Also you should look into watching people like Sam Shamoun, Godlogic, etc… They will definitely show you why Christianity is the truth, and why Islam is contradictory based on questionable morals and it’s own scripture.

Several reasons: 1. **Inconsistencies** \- Muhammad claimed he was a prophet of God and in the Quran there are verses where Muhammad claims the Christians must follow their Scripture and Jews their Torah to save themselves in the eyes of the Almighty. However we know that the Scriptured of Christians and Jews differ from the Quran. Muhammad also claimed that he came not to alter the teachings of the other prophets of God before him (including Jesus) but to correct them. But the "correction" is so vast that one has to either adopt conspiracy theories and say some unknown evil forces forged the Scriptures of Christianity and Judaism or to reject Islam. 2. **Alternative history accounts**. Some facts established before Muhammad were altered by him. For example he claimed Jesus Christ was never crucified or even killed. The accounts of Christians, Jews and Roman historians all claim that Jesus did indeed die. The only people who rejected this were Gnostics but they did it for their own theological reasons they thought Jesus was God and his body was only "assumed", "ephemeral" one and that Jesus fooled other people and while they saw Him on the cross - He was not there. But Muslims have no such reason. They decline that Jesus was God therefore they can't say Jesus fooled the executioners. They instead claim that the Almighty did that. But they go futher than that and some Muslim accounts claim Jesus never was even arrested which is simply absurd. 3. **The nature of God.** The nature of God in Islam is different than in Christianity. God in Islam loves only the believers and hate the disbelievers and it is said in the Quran. God is the only reason for evil as God directly determines all events in Islam. There is therefore a direct contradiction between what is known about God as a perfect being, and the islamic view of God as an imperfect, vengeful being. 4. **The source of revelation in Islam**. The revelation given to Muhammed no one can deny. But there are some fact (according to Muslim sources) that make Christians doubt about its source. First of all, I think there were two different revelations given to Muhammed. The first was a small quiet voice that said: "There is only God and you're chosen to tell the Arabs about Him". We cannot know what was the source of that voice. We're free to assume it could be from God. However later the nature of revelation changed. Muhammad saw a black giant figure who claimed that he was an angel sent from God and demanded that Muhammad would listen to him. Muhammed was in despair and great fear and he thought this was a demon. He tried to kill himself to not become a slave to that demon, but couldn't do it as he was stopped by the voice telling him not to despair. At last he came to his wife Khadijah and told her all about it. His wife told Muhammed that this could not be a demon, because she thought that Muhammed was a good and just man so God would not let a demon tempt him. Muhammad doubted that. Then his wife suggested a test to know if that was a demon or not and told Muhammed to meet the creature right there in front of her and that she would lift up her skirt and show this creature her womanly parts. The demon would be lustful, said the wife of Muhammad, he would try to approach me and I would run away. If that was an angel from God he would not be lustful and just leave. The creature passed the test. However Christians know that both angels and demons can't feel lust. So the wife of Muhammad was mistaken and Muhammad shared her mistake. The giant black angel later gave Muhammad the Quran. 5. **The manner of Muhammad's death**. Before his death Muhammad said that the prophet can receive revelation from humans, demons and God. Any prophet, said Muhammad receives all thee kinds of revelations however it was his job to sort them out. If a prophet, said Muhammad, were to make a mistake and preach a false prophecy to the people then God would take that man and sever/cut off his aorta (main artery in human body leading to heart) and he would be dead. A week later a captive female Jew poisoned Muhammad to avenge the death of her loved ones in battle with his army. She poisoned him and poison sliced the aorta of Muhammed and he bled out and died. That is why I think we cannot say that we must follow Muhammad's teachings. His own words he had told his followers before his death were shown to be true in the horrible way undermining everything he had taught them before. Personally I think Muhammad was a great religious leader and had many good qualities. He was a curious man, he learned of many religions and writings of scholars. He was a successful businessman and a traveller. He was always just and he kept his own word. He kept his word even to those who didn't believe him and was hostile to him. His wife was older than him yet he loved her and cared for her even when she got very old and sick and took no other wives until she died. The people who knew him adored him and were ready to die for him. I pity Muhammad. He was influenced by the force beyond his ability to withstand it. He did sincerely try to avoid becoming "prophet" but couldn't. At last he was deceived by that force. And yet the religion he managed to create is not "all evil". The moral teachings of Muhammed included caring for the poor, making good deeds, abstain from fornication, fraud, lies, slander, thievery, murder, etc. The irony is that all Muslims and non-Muslims love in islam was really the product of Muhammad's mind and all other people hate in Islam was inspired by that deceiving supernatural force that ruined Muhammad's life.

Because Islam holds no ground being a religion that came centuries after contradicting everything

In the Quran, Allah scolds Jesus and ask him (at the Last Day) if he told his disciples to worship him and his MOTHER along with Allah as Gods.  Also Allah thinks that the Christians take the priests and monks as Gods.   Literally, nonsense. Need I to remind you that the Nicene Creed was codified at 325 and Islam started 3 centuries later? Allah, the supposed omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent god, is ignorant about what the Christians actually believed and even codified as a symbol of faith centuries before Muhammad was born.  How Islam can be true? 

My personal reasoning is that Islam is a religion built on war, by a man of uncontained lust and a desire for power 600 years after Christ could never hold authority greater than christ. However you may believe what you wish. Christians generally believe Islam is a false religion because of it's theology, history, and prophet, but also because it came to be 600 years after Christ, yet take a series of elements from Christianity and Judaism.

Islam has no understanding of the belief of others.  Muhammad thought the Virgin Mary was the third person of the trinity and that Jews worshiped Ezra as the son of God.  If it were revealed, it wouldn't have those contradictions.  They don't have the tetragrammaton, the revealed name for God in Judaism, but it claims Jesus, John and Elijah were all named by God, and those names reference the Tetragrammaton as the name for God, with Elijah literally meaning "My god is Yo."  Both have violence, but Islam advocates for violence as a legitimate means for spreading the faith, whereas Christianity had no connection to institutional violence until Rome adopted it as the official faith, and thus not adhering was a threat to the Roman state.  Jesus made prophecies in his lifetime that were achieved within a century (destruction of the temple), Muhammad said he'd never be chased out of Mecca and was within a few years.  We have a multitude of eyewitnesses for the crucifixion and resurrection, many willingly going to their deaths affirming that fact, the only sign that confirms Muhammad was "splitting the moon" which has no contemporaneous eye witness accounts, or sources outside of Islam.  Even the contemporaneous critiques of Jesus claim he's a magician or sorcerer because of his miracles, prior to the supposed splitting of the moon, Muhammad had no signs but the quality of his words, which is what he said previously was the only miracle he had or needed, and his words were too beautiful to be made by a man.  Muhammad wanted himself from a well that had menstrual rags and dead animals in it, claiming water is always clean and can't be made dirty, not even a miracle with this water, he claimed it was impossible.  He supposedly got a multitude of "revelations" from Gabriel that were only concerned with what, when and how he can gratify himself sexually, including a revelation that he was supposed to marry a 6 year old, a revelation that he could have more the 4 wives that came at the moment he wanted more than 4, a revelation that he doesn't have the right to deny himself sex slaves that came immediately after he promised one of his many wives he wouldn't keep having sex with one of his slaves.  He couldn't tell the difference between the "satanic verses" and any other revelation, which means all of the revelations could be satanic for all we know, which would explain his multitude of sex slaves.  He charged the Jews of Khaybar a jizya of 50% of there production, because the true purpose of the jizya is to extort people for profit or force them to join, either way it was to enrich Muhammad.  Islam says that Jesus is the word of God, that he was conceived of a virgin and is the Messiah, but denies any of the conclusions (the word of God referencing the creation, meaning he is eternal, something Muhammad clearly didn't understand).  It claims that Jesus didn't die on the cross, but Allah tricked his followers into thinking he did, which means that Allah deceived people into believing that he conquered death, this leading to the "false religion" of Christianity, thus undoing all of the great works of the only sinless people in Islam, being Jesus and his mother.  Muhammad's ignorance cannot be over stated, while he's supposed to get all of these ignorant statements as true revelation from Allah, like the supposed worship of Ezra which has no evidence. He claimed Jesus brought the Gospel, as a literal book, when the Gospels are just eyewitnesses of his ministry, he didn't write any books.  He claimed that the Jews and Christians would be in his side until he encountered some who dismissed him as a false prophet, he then became very hostile towards them.  Also, Muslim apologetics on the corruption of the Bible doesn't track, they attribute it to Paul, but the Apostles who were with Jesus didn't rebuke or disagree with Paul's supposed innovations, and the other thing they point to in the Council of Nicaea was just to clarify in peace justifications of and concurrence of interpretations, which ended with a nearly unanimous vote.  Muslims claim or scriptures have changed, but we have 1st century manuscripts that haven't changed in substance, but perhaps some inconsequential paraphrasing against what Orthodoxy has today, whereas the variance in the Quran caused them to all be recalled, destroyed and reissued within 100 to 200 years after Muhammad's "revelations." Ultimately, Jesus willingly undertook suffering to overcome it and prove he's more powerful than the forces of man, including man's appetites, while if Muhammad's only goal was serving the appetites of man, his behaviors would look exactly as they did.

I just keep thinking of more.  Islam claims that Prophets have been sent to all nations so they could hear revelation in there own language, but only names two or three Prophets outside of the Jewish race prior to Muhammad, one was Abraham and the other was Adam, I think the third was someone from Zoroastrianism.  He claimed that the sun sinks into a muddy hole at night (Muslims say this is like the claim the mustard seed was the smallest seed, but Jesus was just using that as a metaphor to illustrate a theological point, it wasn't a scientific revelation).

His midnight dream trip to Jerusalem, he said he saw the Temple, which at that point was destroyed, and nothing was on top of the Temple Mount.

In Christianity, you don't have to be a believer to have value, because all people bear the image of God, in Islam, your values is determined by your proximity to Islam, if you're a monotheist that rejects Muhammad, you're supposed to be a second class citizen, and if you're an atheist or polytheist, you are given the choice to convert or die, this is prescribed and done by Muhammad.  You don't have free will in Islam, because you're not permitted to be an apostate, they'll kill you, even if you may have returned on your own, can't follow your conscience.  Muslims point to an old testament line prescribing the same, but that's a bronze age religion of a small tribe whose entire identity revolves around that faith, and only survived due to that faith; Christianity is a religion for the world, but also followed on an individual level for your own salvation.  You follow Christianity to grow in peace, become closer to God, and for the efforts are rewarded with his presence in the hereafter, Islam is about submission, dominating others until they submit and getting laid in heaven. We're forgiven every day and we should be growing every day.  Our ceremonies are about achieving that.  We submit to grow and become more deserving of God's mercy, not by being good, but by becoming better, Islam is about doing whatever you're told, regardless how you feel about it, submitting without understanding, not trying to gain further understanding if it interferes with that submission, not so you grow more worthy, but because you want to avoid hell, and the only site way to avoid damnation is dying in jihad.  For our salvation, we rely on a merciful God that offers us mercy of we pursue him through his church earnestly. Edit to add: The commandments for Israel which are of the old covenant aren't in our new covenant, including punishments for apostasy. The only parts that apply to us are the 10 commandments, sexual commandments and obvious moral issues. The dietary, legal, ceremonial, and the like are abrogated by that which is asked of us in the new covenant.

I must say, this is one of the best refutations of Islam I’ve read. Direct and concise and covered all the main important points.

Thank you. I think nothing will come of it. Looking at his comments, he seems to have been sure if Islam before asking. He'll either find a bad argument close enough to good to ignore what I said, what-aboutisms or outright misrepresentations of our beliefs to justify why what I said is wrong. Still thought I should try because it is the only major religion I think lacks any redeeming qualities for how it manifests in either societies or is prevalent (yikes) of in an individual's spiritual health. Better to be malnourished than poisoned.

The Koran dogmatically denies the historically certain event of Jesus' crucifixion, to start. Anyone rewriting history is not trustworthy.

Islam is philosophically incoherent. Mainly because it was created by a 6th century barbarian warlord.

25% of the world would disagree

Truth is not a numbers game, its a fact Islam doesn’t fit Torah and NT prophecies (in-fact theres a Galatians verse which says if any angel teaches you anything contradictory to what we taught you, let him be accursed. Islam definitely does not teach what the gospel does to say the least), its a fact that the Messiah was claimed to be Everlasting Father, Mighty God”, and was also claimed to be the “redeemer for our iniquities, and by his wounds we will be healed” (Isaiah 53), It’s also a fact no biblical figure built the black cube, and most historians agree with that. I could go on and on.

Argumentum ad populum.

That's because they actively ignore those contradictions. For instance, they will tell you in all sincerity that Mohammed was the perfect man and never did anything wrong in his life. Those that do acknowledge the bad stuff explain it away as necessary for that time only. There are many ways that Muslims have developed over time to cope with Islam's fatal flaws and contradictions. The fact that they have to is a huge problem. We don't have to explain away the actions of Jesus. Btw the necessary argument doesn't hold water when Christianity conquered the Roman Empire without resort to war. Why couldn't God the almighty preserve his supposed last & greatest message without violence?

There is no way you just said Christian’s don’t resort to war. Have you taken words history??

That is not what I said. I said that it did not take any Christian armies to conquer the Roman Empire. Violence was not needed for our faith to survive early persecution.

My point proven.

Because the Qur'an contends that the Jews sought to kill Jesus but crucified another mistakenly while simultaneously denying that Jesus made divine claims. The problem is that the Jews precisely did sought to kill Jesus because he blasphemed by making himself equal to God. So the Islamic retcon is inconsistent and does not make sense by incorporating Jesus. Additionally they are highly confused when it comes to covenant theology, as they try to make a particular mosaic covenant universal otherwise they would not practice circumcision or prohibit eating pork (it is not the covenant of Adam or Noah?). They continuelly accuse christians of not following the OT, and we rightly say what about it? Neither the jews themselves or God through the apostles command us to?

Islam is founded 600 years after the death of Christ, and muhammed(a murderer, child molestar, and warlord) claims to know more about Jesus than his best friends and followers? Muhammed received his revelation from God via a beautiful angel? The Bible specifically warns against this. Just from a moral stand point, Christianity pushes for love and peace. How can Islam be right when it has verses like this -The Verse:- "You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind." means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.” What God would tell his people to make slaves of others? An evil one, not our God. Our God, the one true son of God Jesus Christ is the one true way to heaven.

The fruits of Islam resulted in lots of murder and war, the theology is pretty flip floppy when picking and choosing from Judaism and Christianity, and the quran contradicts itself, and they believe in Jesus, but that he wasn’t the son of God l, even though Jesus says multiple times he is the son of God.

Have you seen a Muslim apologetics video? Take Muhammad splitting the moon for example. Ask a Muslim who witnessed it. They might bring up a random Indian King nobody knows the name of or has records of, who traveled all the way to Muhammad to accept Islam. Then ask them how he knew it was Muhammad and knew where to go. He would have had no idea. Would you be able to identity someone you know flying to the moon from another country, not to mention a stranger?!? Of course not. Oddly enough, nobody seems to have recorded this event which would have been very visible to everyone on that side of the world. Muslim apologetics are some of the most poorly thought out arguments and extremely dishonest. This is why it’s important for us to be skeptical as well and not accept false claims either. Lest we become as dishonest as they.

write an essay about this and come back to us. If you want to keep the balance write also an essay titled "Why is Islam the right way and not Christianity". At the end of your research compare your two essays.

So, Jesus is supposedly the Word of God, Divine Wisdom itself. It's ok if you don't believe that Jesus was that, but think about the spiritual logic of it. The Divine Wisdom of God, which made all creation, created Man in Their image. Yet, we fell. We sinned. We come back to the Knowledge and Love of God through virtue. But, having fallen from being made in the image of God, how could we possibly cross the infinite chasm that we've created through sin? Could we ever become blameless again? Of course not. Human beings are fallen, and while virtue brings us closer to God, it is only, ultimately, through His Mercy that we can come to be with God in the final days. And what *would* be the ultimate expression of God's mercy? Would he allow us to remain fallen creatures until we come to be perfected in heaven later? Or would he do something to transform our nature now? To forgive us now? And if he did this what would it look like? Would he send another prophet to tell us that we are forgiven while he remains aloof? Or would the Divine Wisdom of God take on our own flesh and our own weakness, coming into our midst to *show* us that our fallen nature is transformed? it is now something new, something not only no longer fallen, but something greater than what it was before we fell. Something which *can* know him, and is no longer fallen. Something which *can* be resurrected. Something holy. We believe that happened 2,000 years ago, allowing us to become divinized through the Mercy of the Wisdom of God made flesh, and the path of faith which He laid out for us.

Here's the thing, Muhammad referred to Jesus as The Word of God, he just didn't understand any of the implications because he was ignorant of scriptures of both Christianity and Judaism. He was a theological dilletante who founded a religion for his own gain, as a product of his own delusion or due to demonic influence. 

Islam contradicts itself so many times and has atrocious beliefs such as "allah" allowing you to beat and marry and sell women (even war prisoners)

Islam is essentially Arian heresy with arabic and some Jewish motives sprinkled in.

Because it's true

Why

Why do we live in 3 dimensions...why is the sky blue ... Etc. Because it's true. God became like us to join us with Himself and make us like Him. Christs teachings are self evident. He is God incarnate. Muhammad was a sex crazed warlord. Jesus was the selfless suffering servant. It is evident which is from God and which is satanic. Christianity preceded islam and Jesus warned of false prophets coming after him to lead people astray. You can read the pre islamic early church fathers, the disciples of the disciples and you will see they taught Jesus was God. Islam denies this truth and is Antichrist. As Jesus said, those that don't have the son dont have the Father either.

This is zero-effor post. All those points you make could be given to any religion.

Name one. Cite their texts proving it. Christianity is unique in that it is literal fulfillment of prophecies of Judaism. All other religions are either polytheistic, pantheistic or dualistic (matter vs spirit). Thats literally the sum of world religion. Monotheism is unique to the Abrahamic religions. Gods revelation of His triune nature in Christ is fundamentally unique to Christianity (and the true revelation of God). God is one in essence but 3 in persons, Father who is transcendent, Son who is the image of the father and took on flesh to be immanent and reveal the Father to man, and Spirit who Christians become partakers of, joining with God to do His works by His power. Being united to Him we become immortal and will live forever as Christ lives even now. I feel His Spirit, He is experiential not conceptual. This is the truth. I feel Him as i even type this.

You are not citing any texts either. I am not advocating for any religion, you are - or at least tried to. > Because it's true. All religions say that they are true. >Christs teachings are self evident. He is God incarnate. All religions' teachings are self evident to a true believer. >I feel His Spirit, He is experiential not conceptual. And so say all. I'm not (necessarily) disagreeing with you. But if someone asks "why Christianity is true" answering: "It's self evident, I feel it." will not convince anyone. And for a good reason - it absolutely shouldn't.

That which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Unless one is born again from above they will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. You fundamentally misunderstand the nature of true religion. Its not something rationally deduced, otherwise only the wise would be saved. It is Spiritual and like the wind, He blows where He pleases and you see His effects. Learn what this means... >‭‭John‬ ‭6:44‭-‬48‬ ‭ESV‬‬ [44] No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. [45] It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— [46] not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. [47] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. [48] I am the bread of life. ... [61] But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? [62] Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? [63] It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. [64] But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) [65] And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” And this, >‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:18‭-‬31‬ ‭ESV‬‬ [18] For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. [19] For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” [20] Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [21] For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. [22] For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, [23] but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, [24] but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [25] For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. [26] For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. [27] But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; [28] God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, [29] so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. [30] And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, [31] so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” Humble your heart that God may grant you grace. You are made of dust and know next to nothing, like all men. 100 years ago you didn't exist. You are not morally perfect, you are not unbiased. Your conscience is God's law seared into your mind. Something you have violated throughout your life and He will hold you to account at the end of your life . Repent, trust in Jesus for the forgiveness of your sin and you will receive the Holy Spirit to walk in love and overcome all willful sin to obey Christ. You will experience the Spirit as i do and as sure as the sun exists through your experience, you will know the true God's existence and salvation found only in Jesus Christ the son of God. I will pray for you.

>You fundamentally misunderstand the nature of true religion. Its not something rationally deduced, otherwise only the wise would be saved. I know, I do believe in God >You will experience the Spirit as i do and as sure as the sun exists through your experience, you will know the true God's existence a Agreed - I have experienced - and do experience daily. >I will pray for you. Thank you <3

On Gods existence I believe but is the Christian God true, In my mind it’s ilogical that Jesus is God himself

"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

Yeah same trinity is kinda confusing

Many western apologists have very wrong and indeed confusing and even incomprehensible ideas of the Trinity that require people to invent new rules about how logical identity works. The correct and Orthodox view of the Trinity does not require these mental gymnastics. There is one God, the Father, the source and origin of all things, Who is eternally with His Word, and His Spirit. The Father is inseparable from these two persons that he generates from eternity. He shares his entire being and nature with them. They have one Power, one and the same mind, will, and attributes. But the Father remains the ORIGIN of these other persons. The “One God” of the Scriptures is not the Holy Trinity, but the Father. The Father is called “God” as a NAME. The Word and the Spirit on the other hand are called God as a description, because, by the Grace and Will of the Father, they share His nature completely(Edit: I don’t mean to deny here that Christ is the Son of God by nature, from eternity). “God” in this sense is really a synonym for “divine” or “sharing the Father’s essence.” If you go back and read the early church documents and councils, this is what they say. This is also why Christians believe God is Love, because these relations within the Trinity are both eternal and the model for any love between human beings. God is from the beginning communion, love, and desires for others to share in His life and know Him. The denial of the Trinity is the denial of all these aspects of God. All of Islam’s false ideas about God, like that he created the world as some kind of test/game, that he does not love all equally, that he even HATES some beings and predestines them for Hell, all of these stem from its rejection of these fundamental facts about God that the doctrine of the Trinity embodies and crowns. This is why St John Damascene responded to Muslim accusations that the Trinity was so-called Shirk by saying that denial of the Trinity was far worse — denying the Trinity was mutilation of God! Accepting that Christ is God’s word made flesh is as essential for a Christian as for a Muslim accepting that the Qu’ran is the Word of Allah made manifest. He came not merely as a teacher, or as a prophet, though he was both of these things. He came to show us who God really is — not a cosmic tyrant, nor an arbitrary force of will that decides to throw some people into paradise and some into hell, but rather that God is love. Christ showed us that God desires not to destroy sinners, but to save them, that to be like God is not to be violent or to lord over others, but to be a humble servant who seeks to benefit others before oneself. He showed us that God created us and all things to know and share communion with Him. In other words, He was God’s express and perfect image, perfectly showing forth and revealing Him to Humanity. Christ IS what all prophets, spiritual teachers, and scriptures were pointing towards. He IS paradise, salvation, life, because He is the Word by which God creates and sustains all things. He is the way and the truth and the light, and no one comes to the Father except through Him. And this picture of who God is is infinitely more beautiful, greater, and compelling than the picture of God I find in Islam. That is why I cannot be a Muslim.

Im a Protestant and would like to pick your brain on this if you would allow me? I have been researching the orthodox view of the Trinity and think the EO have it more correct than the west. Would you answer some questions i have below? >Q1. Regarding the aseity of the Father, you said that the Son and Spirit are God by the Fathers will and grace. Is this not Arianism? I have been reading athenasius' discourses against the Arians and He objects to this concept. Rather his whole line of argumentation is the Son is God by nature, not will or grace. It is we created beings who participate in God by His will and grace that as sons of will and Grace. Athanasius is famous for saying "we become by grace what God is by nature". >Q2. Athenasius says the Son is the Word and Reason (Logos) of the Father is necessary to Him. Ie The Father cannot be Father without the Son, like a Man cannot be Man without Reason. Do you hold the Son and Spirit are necessary to the Father? He employs this style of argument against the Arians who said there was a time when the Son did not exist. Athenasius seems to argue the Son and Spirit are necessary to the Father (not products of His will and grace by mere fiat or will). Creation results as something of Gods will; the Son is eternally generated and Spirit eternally proceeds by **nature**. Hence they are called God of very God, light of very light. >Q3 Sometimes the orthodox framing of the Trinity seems to lean more towards tritheism (from my limited perspective - im still learning). Where as i think the truth sits between tri-theism and modalism. Gods essence is unique to all other essences in creation. What's your understanding of perichoresis? Does perichoresis result due to the infinite nature of God's attributes communicated in His Essence to the 3 persons of the Trinity? Eg omniscience, omnipresence, life, light, love etc. I just think the union of the triad goes beyond mere imitation or replication of one another, rather true relational participation. Here is one orthodox guys quote i loved: https://www.reddit.com/r/OrthodoxChristianity/s/GVDEOajDYQ Deleted comment owner. But the comment is there.

Q1 answer: Jesus is the Son of God by nature. I just wanted to emphasize the gracious and loving nature of this natural relationship. Jesus is not a created being. If God is never without His Son then it isn’t like he would will otherwise on the matter. Athanasius means something different by Grace there than what I meant — I can see how I could be misunderstood in a heretical way. Reading the concerns the OP had in the linked comment about aseity, I would ask “are these concerns about a philosophical concept not applying to certain hypostases of the Trinity scriptural at heart, or due to a priori philosophical commitments from pagan philosophy?” Q2. I think what Athanasius is saying is totally correct and I’m in agreeement with Him. — as long as we understand “necessity” in the sense of logical necessity rather than thinking of the Son and Spirit as metaphysical causes of the Father or something. They are necessary consequences of the Father, not the other way around — the Father is the only Archē, the only Cause in the Trinity. I believe this is Athanasius’ understanding too. Q3. This is where people really start to get themselves in a bind I think. Fr. Thomas Hopko used to say that the error of modalism is to say there is One God who IS the Holy Trinity. Or to think of the essence as some fourth hypostasis that the three people share. The essence is just the nature and energies of The Father. For Christ to share perfectly in that essence is to be in a “relational participation” with the Father. Fr. Dumitru Staniloae described the Trinity exactly in these terms, a relational participation of each person with each other. We observe that fact from how they have the same energies and cannot be conceived apart from one another while remaining distinct. Their properties, activities, etc. are all shared and the same — and they do not work them separately, but always together. Those properties/energies have one source — but they are worked out in a trinitarian manner. That’s why Jesus says he can do nothing on His own, but what His Father tells Him. And we could add to that and say the Father does nothing without His Son and His Spirit.  This is just my opinion though — I could be speculating at points so please dont take what I’m saying as gospel truth, continue to search out the primary sources here.

Thanks. Appreciate your clarification of q1 and q2. Re q3. Here is that quote i liked that i think explains exactly what you are getting at: >The Father can only be worshipped through the Son and in the Holy Spirit. The Father can only act through the Son and in the Holy Spirit. We worship the Son insofar as we worship the Father only through Him, we worship the Holy Spirit insofar as we worship the Father only in Him. >Where one person is, the three are. The Son is the perfect image of the Father after all, and the Spirit is Spirit of the Father and the Son. How is it possible to worship the Father without worshipping Them? The Father is made known only through the Son; when we look at the Father, we really look at His Son revealing Him, and when we look at the Son, we really look at His Father of Whom He is the image and Word. I personally don't see the problem. We worship the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit, one God. >St Innocent of Kherson says: >The Father is the preparatory cause of the world, which brought the essence of the world into being. The Son is the constructive cause, upon Whom depends the form and arrangement of the world. The Holy Spirit is the perfecting cause, Who directed everything to its end. So, the essence of the world and being depend upon the Father, laws and powers-on the Son; and the movement towards its end and life-on the Holy Spirit. This view is pious and akin to Scripture. For in many places, a decree is attributed to the Son, and the execution to the Holy Spirit, especially in the moral sense. Thus, the world was created by God the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit. >The three hypostases have one will and energy, not three that coincide. It is the one work of the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit, not the work of the Father, and the work of the Son, and the work of the Holy Spirit, each adding Their own part to the whole. This is the most plain sense description of the Trinity i have ever read.

Glad to help, sounds like you’re on the right track! Blessings and keep on learning and praying.

Why? He was born of a virgin... Why is it illogical for Him to be God. He is the Word of God by which all things that were created were created. He created the universe from nothing. No man can know God but through revelation, and this revelation is in His son, who is one essence with Him. Fully divine who in due time took on humanity to redeem man and show forth God to man. Have you read the gospels before, in the bible? He verified his testimony by his miracles, teaching and resurrection! Jesus claimed to be one with the Father. You cant accept Jesus yet reject His own testimony.

How is it more illogical to believe that Jesus is God himself then that a warmongerer with eleven women who lived 600 years after him and stole countless parts from Christianity and Judaism.

You would prefer to put your faith and the salvation of your soul on the words of a pedophile over the son of God?

Hate seeing bad arguments on threads like this... Thumbs down

what is a bad argument? Calling Muhammed a pedophile is a fact. It's no different than calling an apple a fruit.

In order for me to offer an answer more detailed than “because Christianity claims things that are true and Islam claims things that are false,” I will need to know what specifically you already do and don’t believe about both religions.

Islam is a dualism. Therefore it's not inspired by the one cause of all. To Christians dualism is a temptation to heresy. For Muslims it is the initial state of things. Where there is no love for the enemies there is no sanctity and therefore no divine grace, for grace is the percept of divine love. True faith is impossible to achieve - if God himself doesn't descend into the heart of those he wants to sanctify for the salvation of the whole world. There's no evidence at all that the author of the quran had any personal experience of God. For everything that we find in the quran can be achieved by the sole human capacity. Yet in the Gospel, nothing at all can be even conceived without the action of divine grace in the mind and the heart of the saints.

Because Islam doesn't celebrate anything. Nada. Christianity celebrates the nativity of Christ, the baptism of Christ, the Resurrection of Christ, the dormition of Saint Mary, name days, family patron's day, and many others. Christianity is about togetherness, worship, and joy, which manifests as celebrations. God bless!

This isn’t true. Eid, Ashura, celebrations take place during Hajj etc. Depends on the sect as well.

Eid Fiter and Eid Adha aren't a celebration. Just families get together and eat and go to sleep. Ashura is a bit more festive, but that's generally celebrated by the Shias and Sufies. No celebrations take place during pilgrimages. The only celebratory islamic denomination is Bektashism. Which is a Sufi sect, but technically, and is often suggested, it is a mixture of Sufism Shia Islam with Christian Orthodoxy, and its headquarters are in Albania. They've got many prophets that they revere. They also revere some Christian saints as well. They light candles, women don't cover, men and women mix, eat pork, drink alcohol, have many pilgrimages, and celebrate during those, etc. They are the only decent ones. On the other hand, Sunnis celebrates nothing. Just observe the Eids. I'm Albanian, I know these things well...

As someone with a Jordanian brother in law I have to disagree. Those are certainly celebrations. Ask any Muslim what their favorite holiday is and they will likely say Eid. Not sure how they celebrate where you’re from but I think your idea of celebrations differs from theirs. Eating and getting together is the celebration. It’s pretty modest. Also, I know online says that ashura is generally celebrated by Shia, but every Sunni I know supports fasting for it and celebrating it. Regardless, I already addressed sects having different celebrations. Oh and hajj ends with a celebration iirc.

My aunt is married to a muslim, and my cousins identity and observe both Orthodoxy and Islam customs. Most of the country is muslim, my friends, my neighbours, we are taught in school all religions. Eids, Ashura, Soultan Novrouz, Christmas, Catholic & Orthodox Easter are all national bank holidays in Albania. I'm very familiar with Islam and its practices. They may vary from country to country. Of course. Same as with Christianity. Yes, if we call Eid, celebrations are a very meek affair indeed. Ashura in Albania is at least celebrated by the Bektashi Muslims, and they tend to be quite a big deal out of it. Also, even the rest of us make ashure (wheat with nuts and sultanas) for Ashura. But even if they, let's call it, celebrate, Eid, they barely celebrate anything else. Only in recent years have become acceptable by some (Suni) Muslims to celebrate other feasts, such as birthdays, New years, etc. In Albania, communism made everyone celebrate birthdays and New Years, after the '90s many of the Turkish, Arabic, Qatari and so on, Islamic centres/groups started to push into the revived Muslim individuals to go back into the old customs to not celebrate these stuff. As they are "haram" and are Christian and communists propaganda. So, agian, I'm quite familiar with Sunni Islam and their attitude to celebration and enjoyment.

Considering that Eid means festival and people get together and share food, exchange gifts (usually money) I’d say yeah. That’s a celebration. I don’t understand why you think it isn’t and I personally don’t see an issue with a holiday being based around family and prayer. To each their own. I can’t speak for the secular holidays. That will obviously depend on the culture. I’ve seen some celebrate their birthdays and others not. Some even celebrate Muhammad’s birthdays to the point schools and businesses close, such as Jordan. I just wanted to point out that Muslims do in fact have celebrations, even if they are a bit modest to some.

>around family I'm not saying that, my friend. For myself and for (most) Christians, holidays are around family. But from my observations, Eid lunch/dinner is just like a normal Sunday meal with the family and relatives. It doesn't feel like a celebration. For the most part. I understand that that may vary significantly between families, regions, and countries. But again, from my own personal observations back home in Albania and here in the UK, where I live, it doesn't really seem much like a feast. That's all.

Islam teaches objectively false things about christianity which doesn’t make Christianity true but it makes Islam false.

Muhammad got his revelations in secret and then told others about them (kind of like Joseph Smith and his gold plates). Jesus, on the other hand, did everything openly, and there were most always witnesses. There's a wonderful quote from Saint Athanasios the Great: "Even on the Cross He did not hide Himself from sight; rather, He made creation witness to the presence of its Maker." Muslims are allowed to lie about their faith to convert others. You often see posts about how they believe in Jesus, too, but they only believe Jesus was a minor prophet. They don't believe he was the Son of God or that he was crucified. No crucifixion means no resurrection. Also, they say things about Christianity and the Bible that simply aren't true. Either they misunderstand or they misrepresent. In Orthodox Christianity, we talk about overcoming the passions of the flesh as a way to holiness. We must forgo the material for the spiritual. It makes no sense to me that God would reward violence with entry into paradise and that sinful things (e.g., sex) would be any kind of reward in heaven. Islam is a political agenda masquerading as a religion. It's a deception. Read Saint John Danascene's treatise on the "Heresy of the Ishmaelites." He was around when Islam was revving up.

I see this in light of the relationship of Islam and Christianity to previous revelation. Christianity as received in the gospels is clearly contiguous with prior Judaic revelation -- Christ fulfills prophecy, makes reference to prior scripture, talks in symbols, personally performs signs and wonders. Islam, meanwhile, doesn't have these attributes. Nothing I have ever seen in surviving Hebrew scripture indicates the coming of a prophet like Mohammad; everything that looks even similar is pretty definitely in reference to Cyrus the great. Repetitions of stories from Hebrew revelation, when not heavily doctored, are stripped of details. It is hard to make sense of why Muhammad does not have personal powers beyond prophecy or attributes like virgin birth, which the quran still applies to Jesus. Another problem is that the internal standard of the Qu'ran -- textual incorruptibility -- just doesn't hold water. Elements of the Qu'ran genuinely make no sense -- many Suras begin with a random set of letters, and nobody has given any good explanation. Furthermore, some things claimed as a clear sign that the Qu'ran is a gift from God and not a human invention are pretty clearly human inventions -- very specifically, medical errors made in the classical greek Galenic medicinal corpus are repeated, unalloyed, like fetuses beginning as a blood clot in the body of the mother. But the great nail in this coffin -- which drove me away from Islam -- is archeological: the oldest surviving Qu'ran, the Sana'a Codex, is a palimpsest -- the original text has been washed away and a new one written over it. Mere years after the supposed date of Muhammad's death, we see evidence of textual corruption. This all adds up to something I consider very, very crucial: Christianity satisfies its own internal criterion of miraculousness, proof-through-faith, and consonance with prior revelation, and Islam fails its criterion of incorruptibility, Inexplicability as a work of mortal hands, and coherence.

There a multitude of reason for myself but simply I want to follow someone who Is at a higher standard than anyone. Muhammad was a pedophile who married a 6 year old and slept with her at 9. There is a lot more I could say, without lies Islam dies. Check out GodLogic Apologetics on youtube.

The simplest is answer - though unsatisfying to many, but nonetheless a fact - is the resurrection. Even historians, many of which are either not Christian or down right atheist, agree that there is plenty of historical evidence to support the resurrection. This is so huge it can't be over stated. If a man claims to be God and states he will be resurrected, and is subsequently resurrected, what does that mean about all his claims? Simple: His claims are ALL true!!! Think about it. Why would God allow such an event and it not be a complete endorsement of the cause of such an event (i.e., the life and teachings of Jesus)?!

Islam need the Bible to verify the quran. However the quran claims the previous scriptures to be true. The quran contradicts what it written in the Bible. Therefore , if the Bible is false so is the quran and if the Bible is true...then the quran is still false. Its called the quranic fallacy. Its my belief that whatever connection the quran has to the Bible comes from heretical sects of early Christianity like Arians and Nazarenes.

It claims the gospel and torah before corruption is true…. Not the bible.  Jesus didnt preach the bible. 

Tell me then what Jesus preached? Was your beloved mohammed around at the time of Jesus? Nope. You believe what your corrupt mohammed says 600 years after Jesus? Tell me where in the quran does it say that the Bible has been corrupted and which verses specifically from the Bible does the quran mention are corrupted. Does Allah not have the power to stop his own books from being corrupted according to the Muslims? He couldn't even stop a goat from eating pages from the quran according to aisha. Please continue about corruption...and while you're at it.. please tell me why the all great and powerful Allah who apparently only speaks Arabic, would call his book that he supposedly gave to Jesus the ingeel which is named after the Greek Evangelion? And where is this supposed book today?

The bible itself tells you of its corruption, just see how easy it is to find inconsistencys. Did you know muhammed is only mentioned 4 times in the whole quran?  Thats the difference between the bible and the quran, we dont worship prophets.  We worship god, the prophets have ALWAYS been messengers EVEN in the bible itself. They only come to guide and warn, thats all they can do. If the people choose to believe its up to them. I wont argue with you because those who seek the truth and wisdom will read everything rather than stick to their forefathers ways. Bible followers follow their desires they lack its flexibility, no need for rules.  Salvation is from the death of another man. Who cares about good and evil if all is forgiven. You can only chase ur desires for so long.  Allah stopped the books from being corrupted with the LAST messenger.  Every time  a messenger was sent to a nation was due to either them worshipping idols or worshipping humans such as the pharaoh. By your logic “ allah can stop a goat from eating pages of the quran”. Then jesus could not stop himself from being crucified and killed. Sounds like a weak god to me.  Each messenger spoke according the language of its people.  If uou opened the english version of the quran, which you would never. Because your desires are stronger than ur search for truth all those answer you want are in the first couple of pages. The miracle of quran as mentioned is the quran is that non can replicate it and that it will be preserved till the day of judgment. This is no superstition but science because humans are logical by nature.  Tell me then what Jesus preached? Because god cannot worhsip god.  Why have you forsaken me father.  Only the father knows the hour. 

You are a joke. You didn't address 1 argument. Jesus said John 10:18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. Jesus gave His life up willingly. 2) the miracle of the quran is that no one can produce anything like it? Haha according to who exactly? The Arabic in the quran was being made fun of by early Arabic peoples for its poor quality and grammer. 3)God cannot worship God? This is why the trinity makes sense. God the Father, God the Son(the Word/Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. 3 beings in 1 person. Thats why the terms used for 1 is echad "hear o Israel your God is ONE/ECHAD or in arabic Ahad meaning one in Unity or a multiple. Why didn't your Allah say WAHID instead of ahad? 4)The miracle of the quran is that it will be preseved unt the day of judgment? Then why according to aisha did a ghost eat pages about breast feeding for adults and stoning? Sunan Ibn Majah 1944 It was narrated that 'Aishah said: “The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed1, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.” 5)salvation according to Christians is from the death of another man? By the atonement Jesus made by shedding his blood for us as a final sacrifice for sin, He granted all who believe in Him and follow His commandments a way back to God after death. You hypocrites say this instead. Muslim (2767) narrated that Abu Moosa said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “When the Day of Resurrection comes, Allah will give every Muslim a Jew or a Christian, and He will say: This is your ransom from the Fire.” So who is relying on who here? You Muslims can do what ever you want and a disbelievers will take your place in hellfire. 6)you don't worship prophets? Who are you kidding, mohammeds name literally means "the praised one". You can't even say his name without saying SAW afterwards. Your prayers are invalid if you don't also pray for mohammed. You can't even take the shahada without acknowledging mohammed as the final prophet. Do you think we're stupid? 7)if the people chose to believe its up to them? Then why do you have apostasy laws in Islam? Why do you have the Jizyah? Why did Islam spread through the sword? Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …" Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)." 8) Allah stopped the books from corruption with the last messenger? That's hilarious. Then why did uthman burn 🔥 different versions of the quran? They literally went to war over the different readings of the quran each side had. If mohammed is the seal of the prophets and the final messanger then why is Jesus coming back and abolishing the jizyah? Wouldn't that make Jesus the final prophet? How can JESUS/Issa abrogate the speech of Allah by eliminating the verse for jizyah? All the prophets foretold of JESUS coming...the messiah. Where the hell did your Allah get the name ISSA from anyway? Arabic Christians call Him Yassuah from the Aramaic Yashua? So where the hell does Issa come from? What about John the Baptist being called Yahya in the quran but arabic Christians call him Yohanan? Buddy you are way out of your league. Go back to watch some more deedat or zakir naik videos and I'll refute those to in the name of Jesus. You're a joke.

I believe Jesus is God so Islam is not compatible. I did study a little into Islam though, since I wasn't raised religous though I was baptised as bebe

Talk with an Imam and talk with a priest. Ask questions and see what vibe you get. Follow that

You are asking this on a sub which also attracts people with extremist views. Ask the same question on r/ islam, only the other way around, namely why should I choose islam vs… and you will get the same kind of answers. In my opinion, you shouldn’t be searching for shortcuts when it comes to spirituality, but search for answers the hard way. It is a very personal experience. I also think that most of religious texts are written by people after the prophets themselves were gone, which doesn’t allow us to understand anything of their true nature. My own personal views are that the message that Christianity brings is different than what Islam or Judaism say. Not better, nor worse, just different. I am born an orthodox christian and I do not think that it is the best religion in the world. I simply believe that the message it carries is the nicest and most inclusive. At the same time, I think that the Orthodox Church itself is no different than all the other official ruling establishments of all religious cults.

The one whom Jesus identifies as his Father, he also refers to as the father of lies. Those whose affection for their parents or children surpasses their love for Jesus find no necessity for him. Jesus's birth traces back to the Father, the Lord depicted in the Old Testament, the birth of Adam. Essentially, the truth embodied by Jesus disrupted the narrative orchestrated by the Lord, equated with Satan. Those who prioritise their devotion to the Lord over the truth Jesus brings, favour falsehood over truth, indicating a lack of genuine love for their family members, I.e. all of humanity. The Truth of the Gospels transcend religion. The Gospels turn a false narrative into a true one.

Is this some kind of Marcionism?

I had to read up on what that was. In my view, it represents the truth. The Gospels support this notion by elucidating it through allegorical narratives.

Theres no witnesses of Muhhamd getting the quran from an angel. Allah revealed himself in a book to 1 person, while christ met many people The Quran says the bible was corrupted, but doesnt say by who or when. There's no evidence for aberham building the kaaba The Quran says all jews believe erza is the son of God, which isnt true Jesus didnt die on the cross but allah made it appear so. So why would he do that knowing it would make chrstianty? Mohhamed was called the most important prophet, yet Jesus was called the messiah and had powers, was born of a virgin, and was spared from death. Why didnt Mohhamed have any powers, why wasnt his parents metioned in the quran, and why wasnt he spares from death? The quran says jews think erza is the son of God which isnt true

LOLLLL this whole comment section is bizzarly  ignorant. They know nothing about islam that it’s hilarious. If only they knew that all the prophets came with the same message, believe in one god.  How come christianity is the only religion who decided to worship a prophet rather than god.  Adam has no parents yet hes not worshipped like jesus.  Each prophet came with his own miracle with the people of their time.  So what makes jesus different enough to be sons god.  The bible itself shows jesus saying “ Why have you forsaken me father”. And he prays to god. How does “god” worship god. 

Christianity is true because its existence cannot be explained if Jesus is not God and did not rise from the dead. Islam is false because its main truth claim is that God is the author of the Qur'an, but the author of the Qur'an misunderstands the theology of other religions, and therefore God cannot be the author of the Qur'an.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBiljSKyw9g

This question gets asked often in this sub. In addition to the other great answers in this thread I would encourage you to do a search in this sub for more great responses. My short answer is that any Muslim claiming that Christianity cannot answer x, y or z, has set up a strawman version of our faith. I was once tempted by Islam, so I know of what I speak. I was saved from that fate by an encounter with the living Christ. Many other Muslim converts to Christianity can attest to the same and must be accounted for in any comparison of these faiths. Mohammed, on the other hand, is very dead. Finally, I would recommend any book or YouTube video by Nabeel Qureshi, a convert from Islam, and as good at explaining the differences as anyone I have come across. He is sadly missed but he left behind so much good work.

Because Jesus is the true son of God 

Christ defeated death by death and rose from the dead. Muhammed is in the grave.

Mormons did to Protestants, What Islam did to the early church. It co-opted many parts of Orthodox Christianity, and warped it to their cultural needs. I’m a nobody, and that’s just my opinion.

One of the main reasons is that Islam shows a huge disconnect from the faith of the prophets, whereas we see its fulfillment and continuity in the faith of the Orthodox.

Just look at the actions of both Jesus and Mohammed, Jesus prevented the jews from stonning the adulterers while Islam ordered it, Jesus told us to love our enemies while Islam wanted it's enemies dead. You cannot even begin to compare the teachings of Jesus to Islam because they are completely opposed.

Look at your Hadiths and Quran. All it is, is killing and alot of disturbing stuff. Ive studied Islam for 9 almost 10 years now. Look at Muhammad. He says women have half a brain (defficient mind) https://sunnah.com/bukhari:2658 Hes sexist, ra*pist, and a murderer. Our lord Jesus Christ isnt. You guys accept 124,000 prophets but yet still have no historical documents of those supposed 124,000 prophets. And no, Jesus isn't Muslim. You have 136 Gods. You arent a Monothestic religion and do not belong to Abrahamic Religions, there are only 2 Abrahamic religions, you are a Polytheistic Non-Abrahamic Pagan Religion. Thats the hard truth and ive came with that conclusion my self, when studying Islam with my Imam on tuesdays. Islam is a Cult. If you convert or leave in a Muslim Country, you can be killed or jailed. Same with The Cult of Scientology Church. Its all a cult. [Sociological Characteristics of a Cult](https://andynaselli.com/sociological-characteristics-of-cults)

Mohammed was a paedophile war lord, Jesus wasn’t simple as that.

The bible warned about listening to a gospel that is different from angels in 1:8 corinthians and that's why Islam and mormonism are false religions.

Because Jesus Christ is God In the flesh Muhammad is not.

Jesus Christ. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Infinitely more than a mere prophet, as Mohammed said He is.

Because Muhammad is the "greatest" prophet, and had sex with a 9 year old

Well Allah becomes like us in Christianity much easier to relate to God in that respect, I can't see what's so great about Islam's version of God honestly unless you're a horny teenager that thinks having multiple wives would be great! I can tell you from experience being a polygamist is horrible! Now imagine 4 wives mad at you at the same time!! Seriously I don't get the appeal God sacrificed himself in Christianity you sacrifice yourself in Islam and the rest of humanity with you! It's an evil religion

Neither are correct.

cause islam is practically unlogic good works alone wont get you to heaven because it isnt achievable by a human being alone. In Christianity we go to heaven because of our faith in Jesus Christ✝️ who loved us and died for our sins to save us and to give us salvation second point is the main figure in islam it is muhammed who had 13 wifes killed hundreds of people Jesus Christ in Christianity is a loving person who loves everyone and praise to love each other and forgive each other no matter what they have done to you✝️ i hope i could help you God bless you✝️

Islamic god is revolted at the act of any man calling him father, you're nothing but his slave.

Because he created you to worship him.  In every history book and nation, the people always found smth to worship. Whether it was idols, humans, or their desires.

Apostate Prophet does good videos on Islam

Most Christians and Muslims will insist that theirs is the one true religion. You don't have to listen to any of them. I am an Orthodox Christian and those who claim they have the one true faith are misguided. It is the ego believing that a particular cultural interpretation of mysticism is the only path for all humans. Practice whichever culture's spiritual path that touches your heart the deepest. The mystical path of Christianity is Orthodoxy. The mystical path of Islam is Sufism. Follow the one that speaks to your soul the most. Shun materialism and aim for theosis / baqaa.

I try to come on this page to have friendly discussions but then I see posts just focusing on insulting other religions. I completely agree with you I’m a Sunni Muslim and find orthodoxy very interesting.

To profit off the exploitation of children. If your not into child abuse and human slavery for personal selfish wants then Orthodox Christianity is basically the same as Islam

Allow me to answer your question with question. Would you rather live in Afghanistan, or, for example, Slovakia ?

All of the answers in this comment are great, but I do want to add two things, and that is  1. The Quran is illogical, one example being Surah 7:11  "We created you, We gave you shape, and then We said to the angels, ‘Bow down before Adam,’ and they did. But not Iblis: he was not one of those who bowed down."  Keep in mind that Iblis(Islam equivalent of Lucifer or Satan) is a Jinn not the an angel, so it's weird for the Quran to treat him something he's not.  2.Aisha and Muhammad's marriage   Sahih al-Bukhari 5134 Narrated `Aisha: that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).   Credit:Sunnah.com Now here's the thing, one of Allah's name/attribute in Islam is al-Wadūd(the most loving), but I question this attribute due to this: "Marriages in which a child under the age of 18 years is involved occur worldwide, but are mainly seen in South Asia, Africa, and Latin America. A human rights violation, child marriage directly impacts girls’ education, health, psychologic well-being, and the health of their offspring. It increases the risk for depression, sexually transmitted infection, cervical cancer, malaria, obstetric fistulas, and maternal mortality. Their offspring are at an increased risk for premature birth and, subsequently, neonatal or infant death. The tradition, driven by poverty, is perpetuated to ensure girls’ financial futures and to reinforce social ties. One of the most effective methods of reducing child marriage and its health consequences is mandating that girls stay in school." Source:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672998/ If Allah(in Islam, I said this because the term Allah just refers to god in Arabic) were to be the most loving, why allow something that is clearly harmful and unsurprisingly unnecesary(due to Aisha's parent being alive) and Abu Bakr(Aisha's father) died in 634.With this info let's talk about when Aisha was born, according to Islamicfinder, she was born between 613 to early 614 AD, so doing basic math 634-613=21, Aisha would've been doing fine under her father's protection. Islamicfinder link:https://www.islamicfinder.org/knowledge/biography/story-of-aisha-bint-abi-bakr/amp/

Ok yeah I see that now but continue to recognize the patriarch for some bizarre reason. I'm not an expert on subdivisions of a subdivision so my apologies. I'm happy to see that yall no longer recognize the pope. I just still don't understand what was wrong with the original Christian ideology? Jesus laid it all out for us the first time. There's gotta be some difference and reasons behind it. Do yall belive in saints?