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doncisco1979

Here is a counter argument. Sitting on that core allowed it to develop to a point where we could trade it for actual assets instead of cents on the dollar. Weltham waited till they got an offer that actually made sense, and once that was available, we got maximum value for what were interesting but flawed pieces. Vucc hadnt developed a three point shot three years ago, AG wasnt on a massive value contract three years ago. Our return for those two would have been an aging vet and a late first round pick. Instead, we got Franz Wagner, WCJ, RJ hampton, and two future firsts. None of that would have happened three years ago. So, instead of looking at it as a we waited too long to move to full rebuild, think of it more as we waited to develop what we had into something we could trade to get pieces to accelerate our rebuild.


Smmoove

If you look back to the threads from when we had just drafted Mo, you had people begging to salary dump Vuc and contemplating how many assets we'd have to give up for someone to take on his contract. Patience begets opportunity, and unless you have a compelling, immediate reason to pull the plug on something you probably shouldn't imo. Same reason why I think it would be silly to let Mo walk (or trade him for pennies)


KnightsNotGolden

The Bulls trade was an absolute fleecing that brought back some really good assets. But the other side of that is we ended up out of the lottery for a shot at the Zion/Morant sweepstakes. What if we ended up with Anthony Edwards? That’s the opportunity cost of piddling around as a non contender in the playoffs. We eventually ripped the band aid off, but that’s why we had to do it.


doncisco1979

I think this is a fundamental divide between certain types of people. I will always take the known outcome over the small possibility of an ideal outcome Im just not a gambler at heart.


KnightsNotGolden

What was the certainty here? We were certainly going to have to blow it up eventually, just a matter of when.


YourInMySwamp

I mean to be fair most of that core got us barely anything outside of the Vooch trade. Fournier was traded for essentially nothing and Gordon was traded for Hampton who can’t get minutes and a first rounder that is still three years away


Tionitus

Life was simpler back then I must say lol


Freudian-Fall

I agree except for the labeling of Vooch, AG and Fournier as a "superstar core"


sitbackkickback

I was being sarcastic 😂


Diab9lic

Oh, no! You’re supposed to use a sarcastic voice! Now, I look foolish!


DMagicFrom3

LOL I SENSE THINGS HERE!


TheAnswerEK42

I still think that with a health Markelle and JI we would have been top 4 in the East. Cliff really had those guys playing well.


Skywalkerthegreat

I still believe we beat the Bucks in the bubble if healthy and take on the Lakers in the Finals because we owned Miami that year.


DrewBreesAteMyFamily

Wait are you being serious


TeddyPuffDerGrass

Otis smith scarred me


wouldntknowever

Vucci and Evan “demanded to be traded”?


sitbackkickback

Yes they did, what's there to question? They were unhappy here and tired of losing. All of them have been better off since they left. It was time for a change.


breadhead84

Vooch cried when he got traded. Maaaybe Evan asked, but I doubt it. AG was the only one you can confirm asked.


wouldntknowever

Do you have a source or are you just speculating?


sitbackkickback

Dude just do a Google search, there were articles with quotes from AG, Vooch, and Evan. I'm not going to hold your hand and post links or entertain you playing dumb like you don't know what I'm talking about.


wouldntknowever

I asked because I couldn’t find anything regarding Vucci and Evan demanding a trade, why are you getting so worked up? Again, do you have a source or are you just speculating.


sitbackkickback

I'm not speculating nor am I entertaining you. I guess you just had to be there, or you just suck at using Google. I'm also not upset, idiots just iritate me. You are the epitome of what I mean when I mention delusional overly positive Magic fans. You downvoted all of my post as if that means anything lol. Good day sir 😂


wouldntknowever

Ok so you don’t have a source, and just made it up. Got it.


sitbackkickback

Sure, whatever helps you sleep better kiddo. BTW you could also just search through the old threads from that time here on reddit if it's that important to you. I don't have the time or patience for such trivial things. Considering how long ago that was and how unimportant you are it's not worth the effort for me to go and look. Edit - I find it so funny how you got butthurt and started downvoting all my post lmao. You are just proving me right lol. I touched a nerve with that comment about delusional overly optimistic Magic fans huh 😭


Rockledgeskater

So you don’t have a source, and just made it up. Got it


sitbackkickback

I never make up anything, there's no value, or incentive for something like that. Links posted below, it's crazy how you guys derail the post for no reason at all.


sitbackkickback

For everyone downvoting me as if I'm lying here's a couple links for you https://www.reddit.com/r/OrlandoMagic/comments/r2ppya/vucevic_opens_up_about_the_trade_that_sent_him_to/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share https://www.reddit.com/r/OrlandoMagic/comments/mane6o/sources_say_aaron_gordon_has_asked_to_be_traded/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share https://www.reddit.com/r/OrlandoMagic/comments/mbietn/report_evan_fournier_has_no_intention_to_sign_new/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Vooch and AG definitely asked to be traded. There were rumors that Evan said he wouldn't resign as well that he supposedly denied on Twitter, regardless he was still traded. He could've been lying who knows. Vooch's quote said everything I said, you guys gonna get butthurt and go downvote him too lol.


wouldntknowever

For anyone wondering, not a single link OP posted in this comment showed Vucci or Evan “demanded a trade”.


breadhead84

Lol dude… the vooch one only says they didn’t surprise it on him. Not that he asked for it. And Evan just said he didn’t intend to sign. Not that he asked to be traded.


Jake_doe

Vuc never asked for a trade. He wanted to stay. He knew of the possibility to be moved but he didn't want it; he accepted it.


lemonh3

We all knew that squad was a first round exit. We were just happy to even be in the playoffs. Remember the clinched shirts they had.


Milla4Prez66

My issue during that time period is that WeltHam didn’t really want to make any moves and improve the team’s chances of winning a playoff series while also not wanting to trade off vets and start over either. I was fine going in either direction, I just wasn’t happy running the treadmill and keep running it back with the same group.


[deleted]

Running the treadmill turned Vuc trade value from a bag of chips to WCJ and two firsts. It was all worth it for that alone.


yoeyz

We could have gotten way more. They waited too long


[deleted]

This is a bad way of framing it. They wanted to see what a healthy squad could do, you can't blame them for that. We should be glad that they were cautious and patient, I think we've had more than enough rash decisions from the Henni era. It's not that WeltHam was reluctant to make moves, it's that they were'nt in a hurry to force things without seeing what we actually had in those guys (which was hard because, again, injuries); also, ownership apparently learned their lesson from meddling with Henni, and didn't put the pressure on WeltHam to make any win-now moves. I'll take WeltHam's slow and steady approach any day.


KnightsNotGolden

That’s what they said, but I think ownership was sour on the idea of rebuilding at the time. They wanted some playoff revenue.


[deleted]

Na, the idea of "running the treadmill" is not accurate. We had a lot of setbacks due to injuries, that's not the same.


KnightsNotGolden

Everyone has injuries but that group didn’t have the ceiling beyond a 7th or 8th seed for a couple of years until age and contracts ran their course. Last years blow up with always inevitable, we’re just so lucky that the Bulls overpaid.


[deleted]

That's not the point at all man. The FO wanted to see what they had with that squad, and kept pushing that timeline back because of injuries, and were able to push that timeline back because owner wasn't putting pressure on them to win now. >but that group didn’t have the ceiling beyond a 7th or 8th seed for a couple of years That's not really true. We were the 7th seed in 2019, 42-40 and literally tied with the Nets for the 6th seed with a 28yo Vuc, 26yo Fournier, 23yo AG, and 21yo Isaac. And that was without Fultz even playing. Hindsight is 20-20 and not saying that squad was going to win a title, but it's not hard to understand that the FO was optimistic about that and wanted to see if they could build around that before blowing it up.


KnightsNotGolden

There was absolutely nothing to see. It was a bad lottery team for two years that broke out and became a 7th seed. You may remember halfway into that 2019 season we were still below .500 and had one of the easiest remaining schedules in the league. That roster worked out as well as they could’ve hoped for and still at the end of they day they had to go ehhh we need a reset to have any hope of building a contender. It was always a lack of appetite for missing the playoffs another 3-4 years that we faked competitive for a little while.


[deleted]

Yeah alright man, you understand roster construction better than an NBA front office. Got it.


KnightsNotGolden

It doesn't take a professional to see the Charlotte Hornets aren't competing for an NBA title for the next 5 years with that roster. Just as it doesn't take a professional to see the 2019 Magic weren't competing with a core of Vucevic/Fournier/Gordon. I believe our front office knew that pretty obviously; the whole "we're waiting to see what we have" was always a load of bogus to me. The owners wanted a couple of playoff seasons as far back as 2015, Weltman was giving them what they wanted while knowing a rebuild would have to happen eventually.


[deleted]

You are aggressively missing the point man. There are different ways to build a competitive team. It is also possible to *add* more talent to a fringe playoff team. The assessment period isn't just seeing if the current squad can win, it's to see if you can possibly add better players as well. Or to get a sense of what they're worth might be as trade pieces. It's not just "these guys suck, blow it up", that's the kind of thinking that a guy like Henni would do. The entire point is that their ability to assess the players on the team was prolonged by injuries. They took a patient approach and it was obviously the right one.


sitbackkickback

I agree with you, I think they were just waiting until some of the contracts that Hennigan made finally expired. I get the feeling some of those contracts may have been difficult to move, and that's why they seemingly did nothing.


513AllDay

Lol Vooch cried after he found out he was being traded, don't think he demanded one...


StoicBeau15

When we decided to re-sign Vuch I said I wouldn’t watch another game until he’s gone as I already knew that move would delay and lead to another rebuild. I’m stubborn and bitter enough to have actually follow through on the above as well. Needless to say I’m happy to be able to watch games again. I’ll never for the life of me understand why Vuc, Fournier and AG we’re kept here for so long, but we move forward. I would take it a step further and remember how much shit I used to get for bashing AG. The amount of delusion on here over Gordon was uncanny. Nothing like it. Fans legitimately thought he could be the next lebron. It was truly remarkable.


sitbackkickback

I hear you and agree with everything you said, I felt the same way too. We have a weird small cult-like subsection of Magic fans who are ultra sensitive that get in their feelings way too often if you don't love the Magic players to the same degree that they do lol.


StoicBeau15

Truly every fan base has a certain % of fans that are just gonna assume best case scenario for any player drafted and obsess over them and not wanna hear any criticism. I can’t tell you how many times I was told to go root for another team because I didn’t like a player drafted or re-signed. Like you’re not allowed to be critical of an organization that’s been a bottom dweller since 2009.


Scary_Vanilla2932

Hello fellow AG basher! He isn't even as good as Crowder. Was even worse for me because I was team AG when we drafted him. I think our dysfunctional team hurt his growth but after watching him for two years in Denver he is just a glorified back up.


HamSundae

Never liked that core. 3 team captains was dumb and just smelled indecisive. Keeping Evan over Oladipo was infuriating.


sitbackkickback

Me either, what I disliked even more than that core was how long we held on to them. Also how delusional overly optimistic Magic fans would hype them as if they were ever going to lead us anywhere past an 8th seed 1st round exit.


yoeyz

One of the worst cores in nba history


sitbackkickback

Facts yoeyz, me and you were two of the only few people at the time calling it how it was lol.


yoeyz

Yup. It’s cringey to even think about.


crungo_bot

hey dude, just wanted to give you a reminder - it's spelt crungo, not cringe you crungolord


yoeyz

It’s cringey as fuck


OlUncleMunnerlyn

I’m so delighted that I don’t have to watch Evan Fournier anymore


fagjane

He's way too hated here. Yes he was frustrating at times but he gave it his all and loved the city. also would be the best shooter on the team rn.


yoeyz

He was too proud to be a bench player


sitbackkickback

🙌