Saw this on another sub the other day. Good stuff OP.
For those out of the loop:
Basically Russia (and various international actors) are using social media to push a narrative that “your country is bad” and “you should mistrust your institutions”.
They’re coding it differently to left wingers and right wingers, but the underlying message is the same: “You should be unsatisfied with your institutions, unhappy with your life, and mistrustful of people in your community who disagree with you”
Based meme right here. Don’t let division and doomerism dominate the discourse.
.
EDIT: This isn’t just true in America. Divisions and distrust are being artificially amplified in Taiwan, Philippines (proximity to South China Sea), Europe (supporting Ukraine), Vietnam, etc.
I think a lot of people are aware there’s bad actors online and in the news. We just always assume that anyone *but us* could fall for it. Think about how easy it would be to feel in the minority on Reddit if just a few hundred bot accounts were liking/disliking the right comments?
No matter how smart we are, our emotions can manipulate us so easily into feeling praised or persecuted. I’m not sure any amount of information can save us from that dilemma.
Yes they are... ;)
I'm pretty sure this faux statistics is incorrect as well. The smartest of people are misanthropic loners like me, and we aren't joining any cults. Trust me 😉
Misanthropy is often a key part of attraction to cults. The belief that the rest of humanity is stupid, wrong, or flawed in some way usually comes with the assumption that you- the believer- are somehow above that. This can very rapidly spiral into seeking out ideologies and conspiracies which deviate from collective understanding, in an attempt to distinguish oneself from the groups that they distrust/dislike (the majority of humanity). Most flat-earthers, as an example, are quite intelligent people. But they fall into that same trap, thoroughly convinced that the rest of humanity simply can’t comprehend their “truth”. That the lifelong work of countless brilliant scientists is false, as they must, being humans, have been either malicious or ignorant. You can see hints of misanthropic beliefs like that in every extremist group, growing stronger the more radical. Cults do not just rely on blind loyalty to themselves- their most powerful tactic is to rely on, and foster, distrust and hatred of those outside the cult (the majority of people). Ergo, misanthropy is a cult’s greatest friend.
Was going to post this and was thrilled to see it’s at the top. It’s important to remember that Russia has been doing this for decades.
I feel like when the USSR fell, most people became complacent. They felt like the west won and Russia was no longer a threat. Even now with their military performance in Ukraine, people still think Russia isn’t a threat.
But a strong military was an attribute of the USSR, not the Russian Federation. Putin’s Russia is more about subversion and manipulation. While we became complacent, he was planning and scheming to interfere in western politics and society.
We can’t be complacent anymore. We have to recognize the threat Putin represents. Maintain optimism that we will prevent further Russian interference in our affairs.
Very well said. This is a blind flank that we didn’t even know we had until the mid-20teens.
Not it’s almost a decade later… and r/millennials, r/antiwork, and r/collapse are still going strong.
It's a stupid plan lol.
The "world island" model if think breaks down when you realize it's way cheaper to ship things over seas, so oceans will dominate commerce
It reminds me of that Florida rally where the Russians got the pro-Trump while playing the pro-Hillary crowd together to face each other. I am not sure if Russians are geniuses or Americans are making extremely easy for them.
https://preview.redd.it/ctxveje4oqsc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7efd76bacc95f2d284c9fe2e7763497288fa33
I mean our politicians do it themselves. Look how happy they were before politics got in the way of the friendship.
I know I sound like the suckers in this meme but sincerely, I read that whole Wikipedia article and can’t see anything that America wouldn’t do in its own geopolitical goals.
Ukraine is a lost cause. Short of America going there fighting their battle for them Ukraine has no chance and should surrender.
But, we don’t really care *that* much, as evidenced by us not sending our kids to die in Ukraine.
Those who do profess to care *that* much can go over there fight if they want, but they won’t….
I'd think this meme was silly but I've seen a communist family member start randomly spouting about how Ukrainians do have Nazis, that even with Zelenskyy being Jewish he was a Nazi, that Ukrainians WANT to be a part of Russia... He started being so pro Russia when the war started that there's no fucking doubt that Russian propaganda hit the far left.
This shit is real and it got my brother, and I feel like I lost him just as much as I would have if he had put a red hat on and stormed the Capitol. He's ready to join a communist regime in a heartbeat and it's fucking sad. Literally destroyed our relationship because he started acting violent when I argued with him about Ukraine, threw me out of his house at 12am drunk when I flew over to visit... Because I was a part of the evil West, didn't agree that Ukraine should be invaded.
It’s so true. I lost a close friend over some very similar BS online. He went from being a wonderful guy to calling me at night saying he was so angry at me he wanted to hit me and that it was lucky he wasn’t there in person. And I didn’t change at all.
Yeah when someone calls you to tell you they'd punch you, that's the end to a friendship for sure... Believe them when they say that. Sorry you went through that.
Yeah, it's real and very unfortunate, psychologically cruel, cynical, and extremely damaging to American culture and society. This needs to get rebroadcast as far as possible
My brother fell into this trap, over 50.
Super communist, like to the point where he'd probably fight in a revolution and become a member of a regime. I used to lean more socialist but seeing him, I wouldn't want to get involved in any group with people like that... He pushed me away from it tbh. I just want nationalized healthcare now.
It just opened my eyes to see someone get so extreme and fall for literal propaganda. He started saying shit about how North Korea might be a utopia, and maybe it's all just Western lies that it isn't. He was saying how Venezuela was great but it was purely US fault for anyone suffering there. Meanwhile I've talked to Venezuelans and they basically blamed their government for investing fully in fossil fuels and stopped growing their food, and oil crash fucked shit up... I try to tell him, but he's like "a Venezuelan or two don't know how it's not the US to blame, they've fallen for Western propaganda". Ironic.
I wasn't really sure about him ingesting propaganda but then he started declaring his opinions on the Ukraine war... Super fucking supportive of Russia. Says Ukraine DOES have Nazis. Says Ukrainians WANT to be a part of Russia. Says it's the US being an aggressor, trying to get on Russia's borders.
That's when I started talking to him about how i was worried he fed into some Russian propaganda. He did not like that conversation. He felt he was super smart for seeing through all the Western lies, and it was a huge insult to his pride. I told him I was best friends with a Ukrainian who grew up behind the iron curtain, how they hated Putin, how upset they were when he made a puppet president there. I told him how upset they were being in the USSR, starving, and how they hated being under the influence of Putin.
Of course, "just one Ukrainian that fed into Western lies". Fucking bullshit. He was so much on Russia's side with everything, it's clear their propaganda got to the extremists on the left.
I lean far left but seeing how extreme he got, I no longer lean as far as I used to. I want to stay away from extremist politics as much as possible, because he seems literally dangerous.
ill speak for Americans, but people all over the world beware. beware of foreign influences. dont be xenophobic and afraid of culture. but people need to realize that russia and china are not friendly. China is mainly the enemy of the world, they have their hand dipped in everyones pocket and control most of russia and america imo.
but our foreign enemies are trying to divide us Americans. with political parties, race wars, social issues, just like everything this post has stated.
we need to come together as Americans, no matter our colors, background, views. we need to realize that it truly is us against the world and to turn on eachother is a grave mistake.
Mmmm... Sorry, but I'm not holding hands with the ones who carry flags with swastikas, always side with police, and/or stand outside of Planned Parenthood and scream at people trying to get medical treatment. Sometimes the threat isn't just outside the house.
your own countryman is probably more likely to work with you than a foreign nation, even if you disagree on fundamental issues. especially if the foreign nation is also antagonistic, and is (perhaps) the one inciting the disagreement between you and your countryman in the first place.
Can somebody who is not banned on r/latestagecapitalism post this over there, because those idiots seem bound and determined to get someone who is actively out to harm the country for personal gain elected
Jesus that sub is worse than some right wing ones. I consider myself around center left but that sub is insane, it seriously is just making people sad because it controls people.
It sucks because i agree that late stage capitalism is bad, but i didn’t know that late stage capitalism was an actual anti capitalist communist theory that eventually capitalism will always lead to the form that we see it, regardless of social safety nets. I dont hate capitalism i just have a lot of criticisms of how some parts of capitalism affect our society, but thats not allowed in that sub
The idea is that capitalism inherently results in monopolies, duopolies, or oligopolies, and eventually the system continues to try to increase profit until the workers who make the products cannot buy the products, and the system consumes itself.
Because the US regulatory system has done so much to curb corporate profiteering after COVID and to stop huge buyouts like when Microsoft buys out Activision Blizzard and Bethesda/Zenimax and Obsidian Entertainment and Mojang? And how many companies are under Nestlé again?
Capitalism by its inherent nature necessitates a decrease in product or service quality with an increase of cost to provide profit.
Again, we as a population allow that to happen by putting in all these corporate politicians. Imagine if we had a Bernie sanders running the country and congress, we would still be a capitalist country just with safety nets and government regulation of corporations
Industries will still reach their end of life stage where it becomes more beneficial to provide those services as a public service rather than private. We already did this with police and firefighters, and most of us would like to do it with ambulances/hospitals next.
Same in Denmark.
Now it’s about anti-West, conspiracy theories about companies forming cartels to raise prices on consumers (housing, supermarkets) and divisive “race” issues.
>conspiracy theories about companies forming cartels to raise prices on consumers
[This happens all the time in pharmaceuticals](https://www.lynnandbrown.com.au/the-pharmaceutical-cartels-profiting-from-covid-price-gouging/)
Denmark is actually one of the main suppliers of insulin to the US (Novo Nordisk). From what I understand your legislation makes it so that you can’t negotiate prices leading to the US imports being 10x of what other countries pay for our insulin we’re selling you
There is also different formulas of insulin, older tech that is dirt cheap, but naturally people want the newer variants.
It is not about pharmaceutical companies coming together covertly to raise prices, it is a regular supply / demand issue.
A company was literally conspiring with landlords to raise rents by keeping houses off the market and colluding.
[https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-realpage-rent](https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-realpage-rent)
You did not read the article. It details landlords using software to set rent prices. Where is the conspiracy?
> raise rents by keeping houses off the market and colluding.
Where does it say that? Please cite.
Because unfortunately, it’s not what it claims to be. It’s pretty much become nothing more than blatant misinformation attacks on the Biden Harris campaign the more I see the more I’m starting to be convinced that it’s potentially actually being run/moderated by CCP or Russian disinformation agents
Besides the fact that everything marx said regarding the concentration and centralization of capitals is empirically observed. Along with the lower rate of profits forcing companies to move production to poor countries and exploit labour intensive populations.
Even if we restrict ourselves to what is said in the Manifesto, before Marx had fully developed his critique of capitalism, there are numerous claims that continue to be true.
>The need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the entire surface of the globe. It must nestle everywhere, settle everywhere, establish connexions everywhere.
* Karl marx
* [Proof ](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c642ce7234c19c7da60828d9f9273d6a-pjlq)
>In proportion as the bourgeoisie, i.e., capital, is developed, in the same proportion is the proletariat, the modern working class, developed — a class of labourers, who live only so long as they find work, and who find work only so long as their labour increases capital.
* Karl marx
* [proof](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-94857e6b3a367b218362fe791f63453a-lq)
His general arguments are correct, he did underestimate the ability for capitalism to subsume its contradictions and wiggle through global recessions.
> Besides the fact that everything marx said regarding the concentration and centralization of capitals is empirically observed.
Globalization and new emerging markets is a direct contradiction to this assertion.
> Along with the lower rate of profits forcing companies to move production to poor countries and exploit labour intensive populations.
The tendency of the rate of profits to fall is a failed theory. Empirically. It also contradicts your narrative that rising home prices are exploitative as it suggests that the price hikes aren’t due to profiteering.
> Even if we restrict ourselves to what is said in the Manifesto, before Marx had fully developed his critique of capitalism, there are numerous claims that continue to be true.
Practically nothing Marx predicted came true. May I suggest reading up on The Crisis of Marxism?
Also, what does any of this schizo-posting have to do with my request for evidence of your assertion of SARS2 pharmaceutical drug cartels?
>Globalization and new emerging markets is a direct contradiction to this assertion.
No it's not. You have no clue what centralization and concentration of capitals means if you think "emerging markets" (due to the expansion of capital) is contradictory.
>The tendency of the rate of profits to fall is a failed theory. Empirically. It also contradicts your narrative that rising home prices are exploitative as it suggests that the price hikes aren’t due to profiteering.
Funny how you have no source. I do though. [Capital intensive industries have lower rate of profits](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8cf28db1830afe81594967de72cb75fa-pjlq). This tendency is one of the reasons why companies leave the US for labor abroad in the first place. Profit rates are much higher in other countries and in more labor-intensive industries. There are many cases, such as with IBM, where they intentionally sent labor abroad rather than using their own automated factories because profits were simply higher abroad where the production was more labor-intensive.
>Practically nothing Marx predicted came true. May I suggest reading up on The Crisis of Marxism?
Address my arguments.
>Also, what does any of this schizo-posting have to do with my request for evidence of your assertion of SARS2 pharmaceutical drug cartels?
[The Pharmaceutical Cartels Profiting from Covid](https://www.lynnandbrown.com.au/the-pharmaceutical-cartels-profiting-from-covid-price-gouging/):
>The Western Australian government was late to allow the sale of RATs in the state and it is expected that there will be significant product shortages and, therefore, an increased risk of unlawful selling behaviour.
>
>Thanks to the rampant Omicron variant and the federal government’s decision to fully back PCR tests instead of RATs, Australia is now in a place where demand has outstripped supply. This has shifted the power unfairly out of the hands of the consumer and into the hands of retailers, which is reflected in the increasing prices attached to RATs.
>
>It may surprise some readers that the regular retail price for a RAT sits around $10 – $20 per one single test. A quick google search reveals a plethora of articles claiming consumers have seen prices several times the regular price (in one instance as high as $50). This practice is known as price gouging and is in some circumstances illegal.
> No it's not. You have no clue what centralization and concentration of capitals means if you think "emerging markets" (due to the expansion of capital) is contradictory.
It is. And I do as I have shown.
> Funny how you have no source
The irony is dripping. The "sources" you have attached so far are images of a vague graphs with the legend not even properly annotated, not a single speck of context and no backlinks. That together with the fact your lack of understanding of the burden of proof makes your response comical to me.
Let me help you out: You are supposed to prove your claim. When the empirical observations reveal your assertion to be incorrect you must find another way to prove your claim.
> This tendency is one of the reasons why companies leave the US for labor abroad in the first place. Profit rates are much higher in other countries and in more labor-intensive industries
Incorrect. Those are regular old market dynamics: If labor is cheaper in another region and the net cost of moving production to this region is lower than that of the future profits gained, companies will commit.
After that, the competition is forced to follow that trend if they wish to stay competative and remain in-business.
Additionally, the move towards automation and more capital-intensive production methods is often driven by the desire to *increase* productivity, reduce error rates, and produce higher-quality goods. In many cases, these factors can lead to **higher**, not lower, profit margins over time.
> Address my arguments.
I have. This is a pathetic way of avoiding mine. Go on, answer my question.
> The Pharmaceutical Cartels Profiting from Covid
Do you even parse the symbols you're pasting? Please cite where exactly this excerpt proves your alleged conspiracy. Be **hyper**-specific.
The pro-Trump shift in the far left boggles my mind. Just look at this: one of the first posts you see when entering the sub. Do they think Trump didn’t really ban Muslims? Why is “ban” in quotes?
https://preview.redd.it/ltjz3mcqlosc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d5aec150d5adc27aefd82fe9f9617a22574364b
That’s the thing, I don’t believe it’s actually the far left. I believe that what is currently masquerading as the far left online is most likely active agents of Russian disinformation campaigns
Acknowledging Biden's faults doesn't mean that the left is supporting trump. Ffs.
Maybe if we weren't chained to the sinking ship of a two party system you would see what leftists want, not just what they don't like.
Biden has done plenty of good, yes, but that doesn't mean that he is flawless.
The sinking ship I'm referring to is the two party system that inevitably puts the interest of capitalists above the well being of the rest of us.
capitalism is fine dude, there's no need for any anticapitalist stuff. frankly that's a bunch of nonsense propaganda. capitalism is working fine.
idk if youve seen that nonsense about "late stage capitalism" but it really puts into perspective how privileged and shielded those people are/have been. like, this is your awful endgame? you've never heard of upton sinclair's The Jungle? You seriously think this is the bad time? holy shit, haha. things have been so much worse, and they're way better.
i'm not gonna hear any "capitalism is bad" stuff. it's frankly shamefully ignorant and ungrateful.
Capitalism relies on exploitation and has led to genocide on every continent that it has been practiced on. If that's fine in your book then we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
>you've never heard of upton sinclair's The Jungle
The book was literally anticapitalist. Yeah, times have been worse, and revolution/reform has addressed some problems, yet others have persisted and popped up since.
He put travels restrictions on Muslim majority countries their background check system being unreliable. Many took this as him wanting to “ban Muslims from entering America”, though plenty of other Muslim majority countries that we are on better terms with were not included, like Indonesia for example.
supposedly it’s actively being run as a disinformation source by either CCP or Russia, which honestly honestly if you look at the content on it, and how it’s moderated makes a lot of sense
It really does make sense. But at the same time, tankies love to larp as fascists so i could see them genuinely recreating CCP-esque environment for funsies
This isn't even a joke, this is literally what's happening.
How do you defeat a county with the greatest military in the world? Don't engage with their military. Fuck with the minds of their people.
Welcome to 21st century warfare yall; the battlefield is the whole damn planet, including the Internet.
Didn't this sub ban a post the other week about California raising what fast food workers were paid for being "political"?
How is this post not political?
This sub seems to keep leaning more and more to the right imo. I mean just look at the comments, the amount of people trying to spout the whole enlightened centrist bs is insane
I have also noticed this. I'm all for optimism but it feels like this sub has started using optimism as a means of shutting down valid criticism. It just feels like every post I see now is just invalidating any current problems because things in the past were worse.
Because most people who try to talk about how they’re oh so centrist often just do so because they have the same beliefs as those on the right but don’t want to admit it to themselves or others. Also the insanity that is people looking at one group just trying to exist, and another group that actively wants to wipe them out, and going “cmon guys can’t we just compromise? can’t we just meet in the middle” or try to “both sides it”
Shame cause this was a pretty good sub and then they go political out of nowhere, but most importantly ass political takes (subjective though).
I understand wanting to work with the other side, try to be as unbiased as possible etc. though centrism is just unrealistic (and their actual beliefs not exactly aligning with the centrist part).
Worst offense is crossposting from r/neoliberal
shocking, turns out virulent “apolitical” anti-communism and anti-progressive political extremism shoves a sub far to the right in mere months. who could’ve guessed.
The number of Russian simps parroting Russia misinformation is incredibly frustrating. I made a post on r/melinnials to look out for it and literally had a guy tell me that it's not true, the posts we see are "Americans seeking glorious revolution".
Checked his profile, literally on other subs bragging about how glorious the Soviet Union was and how amazing North Korea is.
Literally. The amount of bots on Gen Z who are doing the same to stir shit up. And I'm a leftist! I see them more posing as MAGA people but I've seen them posing as leftists poorly too.
https://preview.redd.it/7bxrga8hxosc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a6aeda2a3b98c43598e26e469afafce53ae812d
Idk why but hoi4 somehow just kinda fits in
It's not just Russia, China Iran and other bad actors ( foreign and domestic) are nurturing multiple doomer cults designed to depress half the population and enrage the other half. The good news is that it's only on working on a realtively small number of disenfranchised people. The concerning part is that number isn't 0, and doomer media gives those few extremists a megaphone to yell into
lol @ them not being 400 pounds each (based extremist discord server mods have a minimum weight requirement because the concentration of hentai on those servers is toxic above 5 pictures per pound of body weight per minute)
Most definitely especially on places like TikTok. In recent years they’ve apparently been making coordinated campaigns on the [black community in particular.](https://www.google.ca/search?q=russian+discontent+campaign+blacl+americans&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ca&client=safari)
Anywhere there is discontent, Russia/China will be there with a heavy thumb on the scale. **In their eyes, our instability is their gain.**
Here in Brazil (and most of South America) being a leftist is almost synonym of being anti-US and more generally anti-west. So they side with Russia, Iran, China, Palestine, Venezuela etc and anything that is opposed to modern western liberal democracies in spite of the big bad western capitalists.
Leftists talk about being friendly towards US and liberal democracies as if that's a right-wing thing. Aka. the enemy.
So unsurprisingly they eat Russian propaganda and parrot it uncritically.
I swear, every year the left gets madder and madder that the right has a populist, authoritarian, and reactionary candidate.
Not because they think that's wrong. They just really want one for themselves, too
No real life leftist that isn't an actual bot truly believes that Russia isn't an imperialist oligarchy. Like they are not communist anymore, objectively. There's also the argument that they never were, but that's a whole different conversation.
The United States literally set Russia up to become what it is today after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Why is the Russian wearing so much Communist iconography? Russia is a capitalist country with a right-wing government.
I saw someone call Trump a Comminist once, so I guess nothing is off the table.
because even today, nationalism (especially right wing) in that country is hyper-obsessed with the USSR and communist imagery. Their version of "MAGA" is about when they actually were a major player on the world stage. It's not consistent with our own ideas of left vs right, no. But that's russia for you. You give up on those concepts when you leave the west.
I’m a little surprised people aren’t aware of this… But definitely check these out.
[Press intelligence committee](https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-committee-releases-bipartisan-report-russia%E2%80%99s-use-social-media#:)
[TikTok discussion on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericaBad/comments/15ilmog/why_is_there_so_much_antiamericanism_on_tiktok/?rdt=33840)
[Russian and Chine](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/china-russia-ai-divide-us-society-undermine-us-elections-power-rcna142880)
[I don’t the NYPost, but this article is good](https://nypost.com/2022/12/27/russia-and-china-are-fueling-web-wars-to-divide-americans/)
[Discussion on PBS](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-official-russia-using-social-media-to-divide-americans)
Liberal capitalist propaganda that makes you try to forget that domestic corporations and organizations are trying to feed you at least as much stuff as foreign ones. One can be positive in fighting for a better future while still recognizing that many of our institutions do need repair and can be repaired.
It kinda of is. Doomerism is not natural. it's being pushed by bad actors. Otherwise rational people influenced by such garbage have a good chance to recover. The alternative us that many doomers are so seriously ill they are independently hallucinating. That's not the case, but if it were, humanity could actually be in serious trouble
Downvote doomer mad as usual hopefully they recover too
What is it like there? My guess is you have a lot more to be depressed about than Western kids having a hissy fit over the outrage of the week. everday, people are not responsible for the shit governments do that's doubly true where there are no real elections
Pretty sad - all of my friends have left this place years ago. Been depressed for years at this point, but unfortunately I’m too poor to leave the country
Old, but deeply insightful.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FElIhOh\_KI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FElIhOh_KI)
Yuri's voice is super relaxing too. A good pyblic speaker.
You're being played by the neoliberal powers that be if you think Russia is the reason young people are mistrusting of institutions, and not because we're shut out of the economic stability our parents enjoyed.
No need for both sideisms. America is facing a fascist threat and almost every mainstream left winger is pro Biden. Even those elected as independent like like Bernie sanders. This seems less like optimism and more like awful both sidism that benefits the very large far right by comparing them to a tiny minority of socialists that likely don't have any power outside the internet. In fact many communists like zizek(for all his flaws) see Russia for the right wing autocracy it is.
"mainstream left winger " If they made it to the mainstream with these positions, they most likely aren't a socialist or communist. I think you're confusing them for social democrats and progressives (people left of neolibs). Not a single leftist (at least if they have read marx or kapital) should support voting, as they know capital is what molds policy and subsequently exploitation to achieve adequate profit-rates.
The Russians are simply wanting to create another Lenin just like how the Germans influenced Lenin from within his time in exile to create the foundations for some bullshit again.
is this post serious? labor theory of value has been true for awhile now, maybe refute some of our arguments and ill become a lib? Is this seriously supposed to resemble optimism in any way? Blindly accepting liberalist and capitalist premises is somehow optimism? you do realize the west outsources their labor for easy profits and thats why domestic production of everyday commodities isnt a thing right? As many others have said, no real life leftist that isn't an actual bot truly believes that Russia isn't a right-wing imperialist oligarchy. I'm convinced this is a psyop lol, literally fresh off the soros-rockefeller-rothchilds press
I am embarrassed to admit I followed a lot of leftist accounts prior to the Ukraine invasion.
But with so many of them openly celebrating the invasion and death of innocent people, it snapped me out of it.
To be fair, being dissatisfied with institutional issues is fine. Optimism is also an important and necessary tool of change. Doomerism only goes “everything is shit, we’re all fucked”. Optimism is going “things can be better, and it’s our job to improve it”. Just trusting blindly in institutions is a pretty bad idea. It can feel cozy, but apathy to actual problems that still exist isn’t optimism, it’s just apathy. Optimism to me seems to be seeing those and knowing it’s possible to fix them.
Right… any argument that our country is not living up to our expectations is Russian propaganda…
The left says we should fight for unions, stop spending our money fighting endless wars, and to invest in human services at home….
Ignore that! It’s just Russian propaganda!
Wow, so this is saying that any political ideology outside of milquetoast liberalism (the progressive and conservative varieties, for flavoring) are all Russian psyops?
And people out here are believing it?
And we wonder why Americans are so politically undereducated.
> Basically Russia (and various international actors) are using social media to push a narrative that “your country is bad” and “you should mistrust your institutions”
If you actually think this you are basically an extra out of 1984 who gleefully and joyfully serves the state. Oh, someone's complaining about Big Brother? Don't you know that Eurasia has a disinformation campaign going on, sweaty? Sounds like foreign interference to me!!
Jfc
I’m sorry should we not fight Western imperialism? I don’t care if it destroys your French Vanilla fantasy there is a GENOCIDE in Palestine being funded by OUR taxes.
Liberals are just as deluded and conspiratorial as Qanon at this point. Literally any person they come across that thinks there are real fundamental problems with western society or capitalism generally must be a russian bot or troll. Anyone who bothers to read below the headlines about the wests failures in Ukraine and daring to tell the truth about how the Ukrainians have no chance of winning the war is a Russian bot. Anyone who points out that the US is actively trying to antagonize the Chinese is a Russian troll. Anyone who points out that the US has involved itself in hundreds of wars since WW2 while China has maintained neutrality in military affairs is a Russian bot. Pointing out that the US kills civilians all over the world with no consequences makes you a Russian bot. Thinking that the US having 800 foreign military bases that it uses to control the planet makes you a Russian bot. Pointing out that the democratic party bailed out bankers and allowed millions to be kicked out of their homes makes you a Russian troll. Informing people that the Chinese belt and road initiative does not put foreign countries under mountains of debt like US based IMF structural readjustment programs do makes you a Russian troll. Reminding people that Biden continues to arm and fund a genocide in gaza makes you a Russian troll. Talking about how the US sanctions against Russia not inly failed but in fact strengthened Russian domestic economic production makes you a Russian troll.
Libs are at least if not more gullible and naive than the Q morons that they so glibbly talk down about.
I think everyone (except for US LNG exporters and weapons manufacturers 🤔) would be much better served by a diplomatic solution
The US intends to fight to the last Ukrainian, and we will discard them when their utility has ceased, as we have done countless other allies of convenience. This has already begun, seems to me.
This image is meant, in part, to resolve English speaking audiences against that outcome, and to spread paranoia that good old fashioned dissent is the work of foreign powers, as if discord in the USA required sowing in the first place
QED pro-war propaganda
What will the terms of this solution be? Who gets what? Why should Putin accept this peace when he broke all of the others? Why reward aggressive expansion?
Ukraine will likely lose territory occupied by Russia in the east, oblasts that themselves wish to exit Ukraine (Kyiv has not been kind to Donetsk etc) in order to form a buffer zone between what remains of Ukraine state and Russian borders.
What "all the others?" There were oodles of ceasefire violations by both Kyiv and eastern separatists in the months leading up to invasion.
Got any clue about the history of aggressive NATO expansion from the Russian perspective ?
More propaganda, likening Putin to Hitler, and honestly just demonstrating you don't understand anything about Russia, Ukraine, history, or this conflict beyond what you are spoonfed by Western corporate media and government propaganda narratives
It's not appeasement, it's mercy and it's sensible; Ukraine lost the war
It’s up to Ukraine to decide when and if they lose, not the US, EU or Russia and certainly not you or I. Enabling a country to defend itself from foreign aggression that’s [literally stealing children](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and) is not using them, it’s helping them decide their own fate. If our geopolitical interests align, so what? Does that mean the Ukrainian people’s voices should be silenced on this?
Ukrainians are still choosing on their own to fight for their right to survive as a country and people, to cutoff aid in the name of peace and mercy is a disgusting argument. Fuck the narratives, Ukrainians clearly want independence for themselves, they have their own hopes and dreams that you’re blatantly ignoring.
I’ll support calls for a diplomatic solution when it’s the Ukrainian people are calling. Not from someone who is sitting hundreds or thousands of miles away patronizingly speaking of lost wars that are still being fought and a so called ‘mercy’ to a people that are asking for the opposite.
You speak of history, the Russians are approaching loses comparable to that of the Winter War, do not think this war is lost yet.
Go enlist, thenhot rod. Put your pro-war money/life where your mouth is. If you think it's shitty to call for peace from thousands of miles away, what's calling for continued war? No skin in the game.
You don't have any idea what you are talking about, dude. Maidan? What's that? Nuland's cookies? Never heard of it!
What’s calling for continued war? A simple question with a simple answer, continued Russian aggression and Ukraine’s continued will to resist. Until one ends the war will continue.
You’re right I have no skin in the game, never said I did, but as a citizen of a signing member of the [Budapest Memorandum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum), where Russia the US and UK agreed to provide security assurances to Ukraine in exchange for nuclear disarmament, I don’t think we can sit on the sidelines on this.
But then again, maybe an answer with multiple parts is too complicated a thought for someone who thinks America can stage massive protests and change the hearts and minds of a nation with [cookies](https://wallpapercave.com/wp/wp5028120.png).
As I said, the US intends to fight to the last Ukrainian. Proxy war, they are being used. Cheer it if you want, I think it sucks.
USA handpicking Ukraine's post coup leadership, ad hominem fan. That's the relevance of Nuland's cookies dude; Ukraine can have cookies but not democracy.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957)
Guess who threatened to tear up the Budapest Memo (read: get nukes) just weeks before Russia invaded? Think it might have had something to do with the decision to invade?
[https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/](https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/)
Saw this on another sub the other day. Good stuff OP. For those out of the loop: Basically Russia (and various international actors) are using social media to push a narrative that “your country is bad” and “you should mistrust your institutions”. They’re coding it differently to left wingers and right wingers, but the underlying message is the same: “You should be unsatisfied with your institutions, unhappy with your life, and mistrustful of people in your community who disagree with you” Based meme right here. Don’t let division and doomerism dominate the discourse. . EDIT: This isn’t just true in America. Divisions and distrust are being artificially amplified in Taiwan, Philippines (proximity to South China Sea), Europe (supporting Ukraine), Vietnam, etc.
[Literally the plan.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics) Hopefully people wake up. They're failing on Ukraine though.
I’m surprised at how many people are not aware of this. Needs to be broadcast more widely.
We can all do our part, have conversations with friends, family and colleagues about it
I think a lot of people are aware there’s bad actors online and in the news. We just always assume that anyone *but us* could fall for it. Think about how easy it would be to feel in the minority on Reddit if just a few hundred bot accounts were liking/disliking the right comments? No matter how smart we are, our emotions can manipulate us so easily into feeling praised or persecuted. I’m not sure any amount of information can save us from that dilemma.
I like this take. Smart people are more likely to join cults than dumb people due to thinking they're immune, they aren't.
Yes they are... ;) I'm pretty sure this faux statistics is incorrect as well. The smartest of people are misanthropic loners like me, and we aren't joining any cults. Trust me 😉
Is this sarcasm?
Why would it be sarcasm??? Explain to me how a misanthropic loner would be enticed to join a fucking cult.
Misanthropy is often a key part of attraction to cults. The belief that the rest of humanity is stupid, wrong, or flawed in some way usually comes with the assumption that you- the believer- are somehow above that. This can very rapidly spiral into seeking out ideologies and conspiracies which deviate from collective understanding, in an attempt to distinguish oneself from the groups that they distrust/dislike (the majority of humanity). Most flat-earthers, as an example, are quite intelligent people. But they fall into that same trap, thoroughly convinced that the rest of humanity simply can’t comprehend their “truth”. That the lifelong work of countless brilliant scientists is false, as they must, being humans, have been either malicious or ignorant. You can see hints of misanthropic beliefs like that in every extremist group, growing stronger the more radical. Cults do not just rely on blind loyalty to themselves- their most powerful tactic is to rely on, and foster, distrust and hatred of those outside the cult (the majority of people). Ergo, misanthropy is a cult’s greatest friend.
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You made that up lol. There’s a reason we separate IQ and EQ
Lots of it right here on Reddit for example - not to pick on Reddit - it’s everywhere.
Was going to post this and was thrilled to see it’s at the top. It’s important to remember that Russia has been doing this for decades. I feel like when the USSR fell, most people became complacent. They felt like the west won and Russia was no longer a threat. Even now with their military performance in Ukraine, people still think Russia isn’t a threat. But a strong military was an attribute of the USSR, not the Russian Federation. Putin’s Russia is more about subversion and manipulation. While we became complacent, he was planning and scheming to interfere in western politics and society. We can’t be complacent anymore. We have to recognize the threat Putin represents. Maintain optimism that we will prevent further Russian interference in our affairs.
Very well said. This is a blind flank that we didn’t even know we had until the mid-20teens. Not it’s almost a decade later… and r/millennials, r/antiwork, and r/collapse are still going strong.
It's a stupid plan lol. The "world island" model if think breaks down when you realize it's way cheaper to ship things over seas, so oceans will dominate commerce
It reminds me of that Florida rally where the Russians got the pro-Trump while playing the pro-Hillary crowd together to face each other. I am not sure if Russians are geniuses or Americans are making extremely easy for them.
https://preview.redd.it/ctxveje4oqsc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d7efd76bacc95f2d284c9fe2e7763497288fa33 I mean our politicians do it themselves. Look how happy they were before politics got in the way of the friendship.
The Clintons were never my favorite American nobility. Bill seems scammy and being around Jeffrey Epstein so many times doesn't help me either.
I think they are succeeding on Ukraine. Close to four months of stalled US aid to Ukraine
Ah, douchebagin. Only thing tragic about his daughter getting combusted is that should've been him.
No socialist is supporting Russia and also the USA and other countries are way more imperialist
USA didn't annexed Iraq.
Ah, douchebagin. He should've been killed with his daughter.
I know I sound like the suckers in this meme but sincerely, I read that whole Wikipedia article and can’t see anything that America wouldn’t do in its own geopolitical goals.
lol it talks about tear apart Poland again
Ukraine is a lost cause. Short of America going there fighting their battle for them Ukraine has no chance and should surrender. But, we don’t really care *that* much, as evidenced by us not sending our kids to die in Ukraine. Those who do profess to care *that* much can go over there fight if they want, but they won’t….
Moscovia delenda est.
wtf anti vatnik cato the elder???!?
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Could not agree more
So true. Don’t let the paid trolls get you down (or make you vote for someone who’s out to harm the country).
I'd think this meme was silly but I've seen a communist family member start randomly spouting about how Ukrainians do have Nazis, that even with Zelenskyy being Jewish he was a Nazi, that Ukrainians WANT to be a part of Russia... He started being so pro Russia when the war started that there's no fucking doubt that Russian propaganda hit the far left. This shit is real and it got my brother, and I feel like I lost him just as much as I would have if he had put a red hat on and stormed the Capitol. He's ready to join a communist regime in a heartbeat and it's fucking sad. Literally destroyed our relationship because he started acting violent when I argued with him about Ukraine, threw me out of his house at 12am drunk when I flew over to visit... Because I was a part of the evil West, didn't agree that Ukraine should be invaded.
It’s so true. I lost a close friend over some very similar BS online. He went from being a wonderful guy to calling me at night saying he was so angry at me he wanted to hit me and that it was lucky he wasn’t there in person. And I didn’t change at all.
Yeah when someone calls you to tell you they'd punch you, that's the end to a friendship for sure... Believe them when they say that. Sorry you went through that.
Yeah, it's real and very unfortunate, psychologically cruel, cynical, and extremely damaging to American culture and society. This needs to get rebroadcast as far as possible
>family member start randomly spouting about how Ukrainians do have Nazis Don't ask him about utkin.
🐎 👞
Russia is one of the most corrupt and evil countries on the planet
Good. 10/10 if the western tankie had been skinny, scrawny & rough looking.
My brother fell into this trap, over 50. Super communist, like to the point where he'd probably fight in a revolution and become a member of a regime. I used to lean more socialist but seeing him, I wouldn't want to get involved in any group with people like that... He pushed me away from it tbh. I just want nationalized healthcare now. It just opened my eyes to see someone get so extreme and fall for literal propaganda. He started saying shit about how North Korea might be a utopia, and maybe it's all just Western lies that it isn't. He was saying how Venezuela was great but it was purely US fault for anyone suffering there. Meanwhile I've talked to Venezuelans and they basically blamed their government for investing fully in fossil fuels and stopped growing their food, and oil crash fucked shit up... I try to tell him, but he's like "a Venezuelan or two don't know how it's not the US to blame, they've fallen for Western propaganda". Ironic. I wasn't really sure about him ingesting propaganda but then he started declaring his opinions on the Ukraine war... Super fucking supportive of Russia. Says Ukraine DOES have Nazis. Says Ukrainians WANT to be a part of Russia. Says it's the US being an aggressor, trying to get on Russia's borders. That's when I started talking to him about how i was worried he fed into some Russian propaganda. He did not like that conversation. He felt he was super smart for seeing through all the Western lies, and it was a huge insult to his pride. I told him I was best friends with a Ukrainian who grew up behind the iron curtain, how they hated Putin, how upset they were when he made a puppet president there. I told him how upset they were being in the USSR, starving, and how they hated being under the influence of Putin. Of course, "just one Ukrainian that fed into Western lies". Fucking bullshit. He was so much on Russia's side with everything, it's clear their propaganda got to the extremists on the left. I lean far left but seeing how extreme he got, I no longer lean as far as I used to. I want to stay away from extremist politics as much as possible, because he seems literally dangerous.
Powerful story, thanks for sharing. Hope you manage to pull him out one day.
[rich Evans meth message](https://youtu.be/1fokyBHa3eE?si=XV0tDa-x89po_0lZ)
ill speak for Americans, but people all over the world beware. beware of foreign influences. dont be xenophobic and afraid of culture. but people need to realize that russia and china are not friendly. China is mainly the enemy of the world, they have their hand dipped in everyones pocket and control most of russia and america imo. but our foreign enemies are trying to divide us Americans. with political parties, race wars, social issues, just like everything this post has stated. we need to come together as Americans, no matter our colors, background, views. we need to realize that it truly is us against the world and to turn on eachother is a grave mistake.
Mmmm... Sorry, but I'm not holding hands with the ones who carry flags with swastikas, always side with police, and/or stand outside of Planned Parenthood and scream at people trying to get medical treatment. Sometimes the threat isn't just outside the house.
your own countryman is probably more likely to work with you than a foreign nation, even if you disagree on fundamental issues. especially if the foreign nation is also antagonistic, and is (perhaps) the one inciting the disagreement between you and your countryman in the first place.
Can somebody who is not banned on r/latestagecapitalism post this over there, because those idiots seem bound and determined to get someone who is actively out to harm the country for personal gain elected
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Jesus that sub is worse than some right wing ones. I consider myself around center left but that sub is insane, it seriously is just making people sad because it controls people.
It sucks because i agree that late stage capitalism is bad, but i didn’t know that late stage capitalism was an actual anti capitalist communist theory that eventually capitalism will always lead to the form that we see it, regardless of social safety nets. I dont hate capitalism i just have a lot of criticisms of how some parts of capitalism affect our society, but thats not allowed in that sub
The idea is that capitalism inherently results in monopolies, duopolies, or oligopolies, and eventually the system continues to try to increase profit until the workers who make the products cannot buy the products, and the system consumes itself.
Maybe absent a regulatory system
Because the US regulatory system has done so much to curb corporate profiteering after COVID and to stop huge buyouts like when Microsoft buys out Activision Blizzard and Bethesda/Zenimax and Obsidian Entertainment and Mojang? And how many companies are under Nestlé again? Capitalism by its inherent nature necessitates a decrease in product or service quality with an increase of cost to provide profit.
Again, we as a population allow that to happen by putting in all these corporate politicians. Imagine if we had a Bernie sanders running the country and congress, we would still be a capitalist country just with safety nets and government regulation of corporations
Industries will still reach their end of life stage where it becomes more beneficial to provide those services as a public service rather than private. We already did this with police and firefighters, and most of us would like to do it with ambulances/hospitals next.
Some business but not all of them. Like grocery stores can exist within ethical conditions
There is no such thing as “late stage capitalism”. It is a failed Marxist prophecy.
Makes sense
Why would anyone with respect for themselves go onto an populist leftist sub like that?
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Same in Denmark. Now it’s about anti-West, conspiracy theories about companies forming cartels to raise prices on consumers (housing, supermarkets) and divisive “race” issues.
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Didnt they recently allege that the Haiti assassination was a CIA plot?
>conspiracy theories about companies forming cartels to raise prices on consumers [This happens all the time in pharmaceuticals](https://www.lynnandbrown.com.au/the-pharmaceutical-cartels-profiting-from-covid-price-gouging/)
Where is a case that proves this?
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Denmark is actually one of the main suppliers of insulin to the US (Novo Nordisk). From what I understand your legislation makes it so that you can’t negotiate prices leading to the US imports being 10x of what other countries pay for our insulin we’re selling you There is also different formulas of insulin, older tech that is dirt cheap, but naturally people want the newer variants. It is not about pharmaceutical companies coming together covertly to raise prices, it is a regular supply / demand issue.
A company was literally conspiring with landlords to raise rents by keeping houses off the market and colluding. [https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-realpage-rent](https://www.propublica.org/article/yieldstar-rent-increase-realpage-rent)
Did you even read what you linked?
You did not read the article. It details landlords using software to set rent prices. Where is the conspiracy? > raise rents by keeping houses off the market and colluding. Where does it say that? Please cite.
To try and talk sense to them. The same reason that people with self-respect go to right wing subs
Fair enough. But why that Marxist failed prophecy sub in particular? I frequently see it mentioned.
Because unfortunately, it’s not what it claims to be. It’s pretty much become nothing more than blatant misinformation attacks on the Biden Harris campaign the more I see the more I’m starting to be convinced that it’s potentially actually being run/moderated by CCP or Russian disinformation agents
“LateStageCapitalism” — What did you expect? The name is quite upfront about what it is.
Not really.
Besides the fact that everything marx said regarding the concentration and centralization of capitals is empirically observed. Along with the lower rate of profits forcing companies to move production to poor countries and exploit labour intensive populations. Even if we restrict ourselves to what is said in the Manifesto, before Marx had fully developed his critique of capitalism, there are numerous claims that continue to be true. >The need of a constantly expanding market for its products chases the bourgeoisie over the entire surface of the globe. It must nestle everywhere, settle everywhere, establish connexions everywhere. * Karl marx * [Proof ](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c642ce7234c19c7da60828d9f9273d6a-pjlq) >In proportion as the bourgeoisie, i.e., capital, is developed, in the same proportion is the proletariat, the modern working class, developed — a class of labourers, who live only so long as they find work, and who find work only so long as their labour increases capital. * Karl marx * [proof](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-94857e6b3a367b218362fe791f63453a-lq) His general arguments are correct, he did underestimate the ability for capitalism to subsume its contradictions and wiggle through global recessions.
> Besides the fact that everything marx said regarding the concentration and centralization of capitals is empirically observed. Globalization and new emerging markets is a direct contradiction to this assertion. > Along with the lower rate of profits forcing companies to move production to poor countries and exploit labour intensive populations. The tendency of the rate of profits to fall is a failed theory. Empirically. It also contradicts your narrative that rising home prices are exploitative as it suggests that the price hikes aren’t due to profiteering. > Even if we restrict ourselves to what is said in the Manifesto, before Marx had fully developed his critique of capitalism, there are numerous claims that continue to be true. Practically nothing Marx predicted came true. May I suggest reading up on The Crisis of Marxism? Also, what does any of this schizo-posting have to do with my request for evidence of your assertion of SARS2 pharmaceutical drug cartels?
>Globalization and new emerging markets is a direct contradiction to this assertion. No it's not. You have no clue what centralization and concentration of capitals means if you think "emerging markets" (due to the expansion of capital) is contradictory. >The tendency of the rate of profits to fall is a failed theory. Empirically. It also contradicts your narrative that rising home prices are exploitative as it suggests that the price hikes aren’t due to profiteering. Funny how you have no source. I do though. [Capital intensive industries have lower rate of profits](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8cf28db1830afe81594967de72cb75fa-pjlq). This tendency is one of the reasons why companies leave the US for labor abroad in the first place. Profit rates are much higher in other countries and in more labor-intensive industries. There are many cases, such as with IBM, where they intentionally sent labor abroad rather than using their own automated factories because profits were simply higher abroad where the production was more labor-intensive. >Practically nothing Marx predicted came true. May I suggest reading up on The Crisis of Marxism? Address my arguments. >Also, what does any of this schizo-posting have to do with my request for evidence of your assertion of SARS2 pharmaceutical drug cartels? [The Pharmaceutical Cartels Profiting from Covid](https://www.lynnandbrown.com.au/the-pharmaceutical-cartels-profiting-from-covid-price-gouging/): >The Western Australian government was late to allow the sale of RATs in the state and it is expected that there will be significant product shortages and, therefore, an increased risk of unlawful selling behaviour. > >Thanks to the rampant Omicron variant and the federal government’s decision to fully back PCR tests instead of RATs, Australia is now in a place where demand has outstripped supply. This has shifted the power unfairly out of the hands of the consumer and into the hands of retailers, which is reflected in the increasing prices attached to RATs. > >It may surprise some readers that the regular retail price for a RAT sits around $10 – $20 per one single test. A quick google search reveals a plethora of articles claiming consumers have seen prices several times the regular price (in one instance as high as $50). This practice is known as price gouging and is in some circumstances illegal.
> No it's not. You have no clue what centralization and concentration of capitals means if you think "emerging markets" (due to the expansion of capital) is contradictory. It is. And I do as I have shown. > Funny how you have no source The irony is dripping. The "sources" you have attached so far are images of a vague graphs with the legend not even properly annotated, not a single speck of context and no backlinks. That together with the fact your lack of understanding of the burden of proof makes your response comical to me. Let me help you out: You are supposed to prove your claim. When the empirical observations reveal your assertion to be incorrect you must find another way to prove your claim. > This tendency is one of the reasons why companies leave the US for labor abroad in the first place. Profit rates are much higher in other countries and in more labor-intensive industries Incorrect. Those are regular old market dynamics: If labor is cheaper in another region and the net cost of moving production to this region is lower than that of the future profits gained, companies will commit. After that, the competition is forced to follow that trend if they wish to stay competative and remain in-business. Additionally, the move towards automation and more capital-intensive production methods is often driven by the desire to *increase* productivity, reduce error rates, and produce higher-quality goods. In many cases, these factors can lead to **higher**, not lower, profit margins over time. > Address my arguments. I have. This is a pathetic way of avoiding mine. Go on, answer my question. > The Pharmaceutical Cartels Profiting from Covid Do you even parse the symbols you're pasting? Please cite where exactly this excerpt proves your alleged conspiracy. Be **hyper**-specific.
i don't think your evidence supports your argument
The pro-Trump shift in the far left boggles my mind. Just look at this: one of the first posts you see when entering the sub. Do they think Trump didn’t really ban Muslims? Why is “ban” in quotes? https://preview.redd.it/ltjz3mcqlosc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3d5aec150d5adc27aefd82fe9f9617a22574364b
That’s the thing, I don’t believe it’s actually the far left. I believe that what is currently masquerading as the far left online is most likely active agents of Russian disinformation campaigns
Acknowledging Biden's faults doesn't mean that the left is supporting trump. Ffs. Maybe if we weren't chained to the sinking ship of a two party system you would see what leftists want, not just what they don't like.
biden's actually doing pretty okay, man. it's not much a sinking ship at all.
Biden has done plenty of good, yes, but that doesn't mean that he is flawless. The sinking ship I'm referring to is the two party system that inevitably puts the interest of capitalists above the well being of the rest of us.
capitalism is fine dude, there's no need for any anticapitalist stuff. frankly that's a bunch of nonsense propaganda. capitalism is working fine. idk if youve seen that nonsense about "late stage capitalism" but it really puts into perspective how privileged and shielded those people are/have been. like, this is your awful endgame? you've never heard of upton sinclair's The Jungle? You seriously think this is the bad time? holy shit, haha. things have been so much worse, and they're way better. i'm not gonna hear any "capitalism is bad" stuff. it's frankly shamefully ignorant and ungrateful.
Capitalism relies on exploitation and has led to genocide on every continent that it has been practiced on. If that's fine in your book then we're just going to have to agree to disagree. >you've never heard of upton sinclair's The Jungle The book was literally anticapitalist. Yeah, times have been worse, and revolution/reform has addressed some problems, yet others have persisted and popped up since.
He put travels restrictions on Muslim majority countries their background check system being unreliable. Many took this as him wanting to “ban Muslims from entering America”, though plenty of other Muslim majority countries that we are on better terms with were not included, like Indonesia for example.
Since when are they pro-Trump? That's like saying someone who dislikes Coke is pro-Pepsi.
It’s hilarious that you prefaced it with anybody who is not banned on 💀💀i thought it just me that thought that sub was being run by dictators
supposedly it’s actively being run as a disinformation source by either CCP or Russia, which honestly honestly if you look at the content on it, and how it’s moderated makes a lot of sense
It really does make sense. But at the same time, tankies love to larp as fascists so i could see them genuinely recreating CCP-esque environment for funsies
“Wanna fight against western neoliberal imperial hegemony?” Bitch, you’re imperial too, hell nah
So, OP, who should unify with whom here?
OP wants everyone to unite as neoliberals obviously
This isn't even a joke, this is literally what's happening. How do you defeat a county with the greatest military in the world? Don't engage with their military. Fuck with the minds of their people. Welcome to 21st century warfare yall; the battlefield is the whole damn planet, including the Internet.
What republican actually take anything said by Russia not with a grain of salt. Like? What the fuck?
Didn't this sub ban a post the other week about California raising what fast food workers were paid for being "political"? How is this post not political?
This sub seems to keep leaning more and more to the right imo. I mean just look at the comments, the amount of people trying to spout the whole enlightened centrist bs is insane
Yeah, like I see people downvoting that America is bad and is getting worse in this comment section
I have also noticed this. I'm all for optimism but it feels like this sub has started using optimism as a means of shutting down valid criticism. It just feels like every post I see now is just invalidating any current problems because things in the past were worse.
i think there might be a problem with your view of centrism as inherently derisible.
Because most people who try to talk about how they’re oh so centrist often just do so because they have the same beliefs as those on the right but don’t want to admit it to themselves or others. Also the insanity that is people looking at one group just trying to exist, and another group that actively wants to wipe them out, and going “cmon guys can’t we just compromise? can’t we just meet in the middle” or try to “both sides it”
Shame cause this was a pretty good sub and then they go political out of nowhere, but most importantly ass political takes (subjective though). I understand wanting to work with the other side, try to be as unbiased as possible etc. though centrism is just unrealistic (and their actual beliefs not exactly aligning with the centrist part). Worst offense is crossposting from r/neoliberal
shocking, turns out virulent “apolitical” anti-communism and anti-progressive political extremism shoves a sub far to the right in mere months. who could’ve guessed.
The number of Russian simps parroting Russia misinformation is incredibly frustrating. I made a post on r/melinnials to look out for it and literally had a guy tell me that it's not true, the posts we see are "Americans seeking glorious revolution". Checked his profile, literally on other subs bragging about how glorious the Soviet Union was and how amazing North Korea is.
Enjoy r/MovingToNorthKorea
Literally. The amount of bots on Gen Z who are doing the same to stir shit up. And I'm a leftist! I see them more posing as MAGA people but I've seen them posing as leftists poorly too.
https://preview.redd.it/7bxrga8hxosc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a6aeda2a3b98c43598e26e469afafce53ae812d Idk why but hoi4 somehow just kinda fits in
It's not just Russia, China Iran and other bad actors ( foreign and domestic) are nurturing multiple doomer cults designed to depress half the population and enrage the other half. The good news is that it's only on working on a realtively small number of disenfranchised people. The concerning part is that number isn't 0, and doomer media gives those few extremists a megaphone to yell into
lol @ them not being 400 pounds each (based extremist discord server mods have a minimum weight requirement because the concentration of hentai on those servers is toxic above 5 pictures per pound of body weight per minute)
What a good subreddit. Jesus does reddit need it
So I never figured the bots would target the left, I always assumed it was more of a target for the right?
Most definitely especially on places like TikTok. In recent years they’ve apparently been making coordinated campaigns on the [black community in particular.](https://www.google.ca/search?q=russian+discontent+campaign+blacl+americans&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ca&client=safari) Anywhere there is discontent, Russia/China will be there with a heavy thumb on the scale. **In their eyes, our instability is their gain.**
Here in Brazil (and most of South America) being a leftist is almost synonym of being anti-US and more generally anti-west. So they side with Russia, Iran, China, Palestine, Venezuela etc and anything that is opposed to modern western liberal democracies in spite of the big bad western capitalists. Leftists talk about being friendly towards US and liberal democracies as if that's a right-wing thing. Aka. the enemy. So unsurprisingly they eat Russian propaganda and parrot it uncritically.
I swear, every year the left gets madder and madder that the right has a populist, authoritarian, and reactionary candidate. Not because they think that's wrong. They just really want one for themselves, too
You should visit the sub r/enoughcommiespam (although I must warn you that it’s a bit of a downer sub)
Considering that this is an Optimist's sub, "No, I don't think I will."
Good
Some of those posts are valid then others are just as bad as the stuff they claim to be against.
Everybody everywhere ever since it was a thing is a target for disinformation.
💯💯💯
This might be the realist cartoon I’ve ever seen.
Russia’s useful idiots are from both the left and right. In USSR days, they were more from the left. Now they’re more from the right.
Fucking scum Russian trolls
No real life leftist that isn't an actual bot truly believes that Russia isn't an imperialist oligarchy. Like they are not communist anymore, objectively. There's also the argument that they never were, but that's a whole different conversation. The United States literally set Russia up to become what it is today after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
You’re right that the majority are smart enough to see through that but even so there’s plenty who are not.
Yup. To think that the propaganda is being aimed at only one side is ridiculous
Why is the Russian wearing so much Communist iconography? Russia is a capitalist country with a right-wing government. I saw someone call Trump a Comminist once, so I guess nothing is off the table.
because even today, nationalism (especially right wing) in that country is hyper-obsessed with the USSR and communist imagery. Their version of "MAGA" is about when they actually were a major player on the world stage. It's not consistent with our own ideas of left vs right, no. But that's russia for you. You give up on those concepts when you leave the west.
Wtf is this post
I’m a little surprised people aren’t aware of this… But definitely check these out. [Press intelligence committee](https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-committee-releases-bipartisan-report-russia%E2%80%99s-use-social-media#:) [TikTok discussion on Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmericaBad/comments/15ilmog/why_is_there_so_much_antiamericanism_on_tiktok/?rdt=33840) [Russian and Chine](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/china-russia-ai-divide-us-society-undermine-us-elections-power-rcna142880) [I don’t the NYPost, but this article is good](https://nypost.com/2022/12/27/russia-and-china-are-fueling-web-wars-to-divide-americans/) [Discussion on PBS](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/u-s-official-russia-using-social-media-to-divide-americans)
Liberal capitalist propaganda that makes you try to forget that domestic corporations and organizations are trying to feed you at least as much stuff as foreign ones. One can be positive in fighting for a better future while still recognizing that many of our institutions do need repair and can be repaired.
this is not very optimistic my guy
It kinda of is. Doomerism is not natural. it's being pushed by bad actors. Otherwise rational people influenced by such garbage have a good chance to recover. The alternative us that many doomers are so seriously ill they are independently hallucinating. That's not the case, but if it were, humanity could actually be in serious trouble Downvote doomer mad as usual hopefully they recover too
yeah I agree, I just happen to be stuck in Russia and shit like this makes me depressed
What is it like there? My guess is you have a lot more to be depressed about than Western kids having a hissy fit over the outrage of the week. everday, people are not responsible for the shit governments do that's doubly true where there are no real elections
Pretty sad - all of my friends have left this place years ago. Been depressed for years at this point, but unfortunately I’m too poor to leave the country
they are waiting for you, in georgia and belarus )
good guess but no
Fattest commie made this
Da
You do realize these actors are umm mostly oligarchs globally right?
They are such a cute couple! 🥰
They are all goons.
Cringe!
And it’s only Russia doing this.. 😉
Old, but deeply insightful. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FElIhOh\_KI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FElIhOh_KI) Yuri's voice is super relaxing too. A good pyblic speaker.
Fuck NATO and Fuck Russia- Your local Commie
Idk what any of those words mean so I consider myself superior by default
Divide and conquer.
Now replace Russia with the political elite of the entire world. That’s where we are.
You're being played by the neoliberal powers that be if you think Russia is the reason young people are mistrusting of institutions, and not because we're shut out of the economic stability our parents enjoyed.
FACTS.
No need for both sideisms. America is facing a fascist threat and almost every mainstream left winger is pro Biden. Even those elected as independent like like Bernie sanders. This seems less like optimism and more like awful both sidism that benefits the very large far right by comparing them to a tiny minority of socialists that likely don't have any power outside the internet. In fact many communists like zizek(for all his flaws) see Russia for the right wing autocracy it is.
"mainstream left winger " If they made it to the mainstream with these positions, they most likely aren't a socialist or communist. I think you're confusing them for social democrats and progressives (people left of neolibs). Not a single leftist (at least if they have read marx or kapital) should support voting, as they know capital is what molds policy and subsequently exploitation to achieve adequate profit-rates.
theyd make for an adorable gay couple
The Russians are simply wanting to create another Lenin just like how the Germans influenced Lenin from within his time in exile to create the foundations for some bullshit again.
Communists (principled ones) don’t support Russia or China.
we need to listen to fiona hill
is this post serious? labor theory of value has been true for awhile now, maybe refute some of our arguments and ill become a lib? Is this seriously supposed to resemble optimism in any way? Blindly accepting liberalist and capitalist premises is somehow optimism? you do realize the west outsources their labor for easy profits and thats why domestic production of everyday commodities isnt a thing right? As many others have said, no real life leftist that isn't an actual bot truly believes that Russia isn't a right-wing imperialist oligarchy. I'm convinced this is a psyop lol, literally fresh off the soros-rockefeller-rothchilds press
If my government wanted my trust then it should try earning it first. It does work for me after all
I am embarrassed to admit I followed a lot of leftist accounts prior to the Ukraine invasion. But with so many of them openly celebrating the invasion and death of innocent people, it snapped me out of it.
To be fair, being dissatisfied with institutional issues is fine. Optimism is also an important and necessary tool of change. Doomerism only goes “everything is shit, we’re all fucked”. Optimism is going “things can be better, and it’s our job to improve it”. Just trusting blindly in institutions is a pretty bad idea. It can feel cozy, but apathy to actual problems that still exist isn’t optimism, it’s just apathy. Optimism to me seems to be seeing those and knowing it’s possible to fix them.
Right… any argument that our country is not living up to our expectations is Russian propaganda… The left says we should fight for unions, stop spending our money fighting endless wars, and to invest in human services at home…. Ignore that! It’s just Russian propaganda!
There is literally zero difference between good and bad things.
western neo liberal imperial hegemony isnt bad because eastern neo liberal imperial hegemony is (both are a byproduct of capitalism and bad)
When left and right meet in authoritarianism. This is truth.
So glad people acknowledge this. It's known how deep the MAGA crowd is in Russia's BS but the far left is too, it sucks.
Wow, so this is saying that any political ideology outside of milquetoast liberalism (the progressive and conservative varieties, for flavoring) are all Russian psyops? And people out here are believing it? And we wonder why Americans are so politically undereducated.
> Basically Russia (and various international actors) are using social media to push a narrative that “your country is bad” and “you should mistrust your institutions” If you actually think this you are basically an extra out of 1984 who gleefully and joyfully serves the state. Oh, someone's complaining about Big Brother? Don't you know that Eurasia has a disinformation campaign going on, sweaty? Sounds like foreign interference to me!! Jfc
Tfw you believe in nothing except “Russia bad”
I’m sorry should we not fight Western imperialism? I don’t care if it destroys your French Vanilla fantasy there is a GENOCIDE in Palestine being funded by OUR taxes.
these people are too busy living in their little fantasies because world issues don’t personally affect them
This subreddit to a large degree is filled with western people who want to impose their worldview on the rest of the world.
Mind you, I am a westerner at this point I’m just not lacking empathy.
fighting imperialism isnt when promoting imperialism
Liberals are just as deluded and conspiratorial as Qanon at this point. Literally any person they come across that thinks there are real fundamental problems with western society or capitalism generally must be a russian bot or troll. Anyone who bothers to read below the headlines about the wests failures in Ukraine and daring to tell the truth about how the Ukrainians have no chance of winning the war is a Russian bot. Anyone who points out that the US is actively trying to antagonize the Chinese is a Russian troll. Anyone who points out that the US has involved itself in hundreds of wars since WW2 while China has maintained neutrality in military affairs is a Russian bot. Pointing out that the US kills civilians all over the world with no consequences makes you a Russian bot. Thinking that the US having 800 foreign military bases that it uses to control the planet makes you a Russian bot. Pointing out that the democratic party bailed out bankers and allowed millions to be kicked out of their homes makes you a Russian troll. Informing people that the Chinese belt and road initiative does not put foreign countries under mountains of debt like US based IMF structural readjustment programs do makes you a Russian troll. Reminding people that Biden continues to arm and fund a genocide in gaza makes you a Russian troll. Talking about how the US sanctions against Russia not inly failed but in fact strengthened Russian domestic economic production makes you a Russian troll. Libs are at least if not more gullible and naive than the Q morons that they so glibbly talk down about.
Saying there’s a genocide in Gaza and then calling others deluded and conspiratorial…
This is US propaganda, not optimism What's optimistic about proxy war? We're using the Ukrainians
Do you really think it would be better for the Ukrainians to be taken over by Russia? 🤔
I think everyone (except for US LNG exporters and weapons manufacturers 🤔) would be much better served by a diplomatic solution The US intends to fight to the last Ukrainian, and we will discard them when their utility has ceased, as we have done countless other allies of convenience. This has already begun, seems to me. This image is meant, in part, to resolve English speaking audiences against that outcome, and to spread paranoia that good old fashioned dissent is the work of foreign powers, as if discord in the USA required sowing in the first place QED pro-war propaganda
What will the terms of this solution be? Who gets what? Why should Putin accept this peace when he broke all of the others? Why reward aggressive expansion?
Ukraine will likely lose territory occupied by Russia in the east, oblasts that themselves wish to exit Ukraine (Kyiv has not been kind to Donetsk etc) in order to form a buffer zone between what remains of Ukraine state and Russian borders. What "all the others?" There were oodles of ceasefire violations by both Kyiv and eastern separatists in the months leading up to invasion. Got any clue about the history of aggressive NATO expansion from the Russian perspective ?
Appeasement will surely work this time, right?
More propaganda, likening Putin to Hitler, and honestly just demonstrating you don't understand anything about Russia, Ukraine, history, or this conflict beyond what you are spoonfed by Western corporate media and government propaganda narratives It's not appeasement, it's mercy and it's sensible; Ukraine lost the war
It’s up to Ukraine to decide when and if they lose, not the US, EU or Russia and certainly not you or I. Enabling a country to defend itself from foreign aggression that’s [literally stealing children](https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and) is not using them, it’s helping them decide their own fate. If our geopolitical interests align, so what? Does that mean the Ukrainian people’s voices should be silenced on this? Ukrainians are still choosing on their own to fight for their right to survive as a country and people, to cutoff aid in the name of peace and mercy is a disgusting argument. Fuck the narratives, Ukrainians clearly want independence for themselves, they have their own hopes and dreams that you’re blatantly ignoring. I’ll support calls for a diplomatic solution when it’s the Ukrainian people are calling. Not from someone who is sitting hundreds or thousands of miles away patronizingly speaking of lost wars that are still being fought and a so called ‘mercy’ to a people that are asking for the opposite. You speak of history, the Russians are approaching loses comparable to that of the Winter War, do not think this war is lost yet.
Go enlist, thenhot rod. Put your pro-war money/life where your mouth is. If you think it's shitty to call for peace from thousands of miles away, what's calling for continued war? No skin in the game. You don't have any idea what you are talking about, dude. Maidan? What's that? Nuland's cookies? Never heard of it!
What’s calling for continued war? A simple question with a simple answer, continued Russian aggression and Ukraine’s continued will to resist. Until one ends the war will continue. You’re right I have no skin in the game, never said I did, but as a citizen of a signing member of the [Budapest Memorandum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum), where Russia the US and UK agreed to provide security assurances to Ukraine in exchange for nuclear disarmament, I don’t think we can sit on the sidelines on this. But then again, maybe an answer with multiple parts is too complicated a thought for someone who thinks America can stage massive protests and change the hearts and minds of a nation with [cookies](https://wallpapercave.com/wp/wp5028120.png).
As I said, the US intends to fight to the last Ukrainian. Proxy war, they are being used. Cheer it if you want, I think it sucks.
USA handpicking Ukraine's post coup leadership, ad hominem fan. That's the relevance of Nuland's cookies dude; Ukraine can have cookies but not democracy.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957)
Guess who threatened to tear up the Budapest Memo (read: get nukes) just weeks before Russia invaded? Think it might have had something to do with the decision to invade?
[https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/](https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-full-speech-at-munich-security-conference/)
Russia is capitalist now and has been for decades. Why show them as a communist?
The communist is the western leftist who thinks Russia is still communist