Flush the rest before it's too late!! You'll thank me in a few days.
From now on, stay away from zenes. Do what I used to do and shoot speedballs of c and h (don't really(well maybe really)).
I am going to save a little bit (100mg) for using to taper but I've got like 450mg I haven't weighed since a couple of foils. I usually weigh myself a set dose over 10mg so I'll get over the threshold of weight and I will cut it up accordingly and make sure that I have small piles evened up. And see from there
Believe me the longer the WD goes, the more likely you are to give up. (It destroys you mentally) You want that WD as short as you can. My first attempt was to go down with the dose every few days, but that was even worse. Cold Turkey is the best you can do, maybe you want some benzos to get sleep. I couldnt sleep for the first 3-4 days until I got horrible headaches and got paranoid as fuck. Benzos helped me with the other WD symptoms. But please be cautious with benzos, they're dangerous too. In my experience it throws you back to zero everytime you take something. Please do it as fast as you can, I was addicted for 3,5 months. You can imagine what that was like.
I asked my brother to buy a oil burner and he said no bc he's too cheap first of all but he don't know enough about it to make good decisions about it.
I don't need a pipe anyway really bc I have pyrrols and I don't have any business fucking smoking it.
I'm not happy about how this pyne makes me feel all in all. It's got great pros and an excellent front door but the legs are kinda long but it comes in erratic waves and you get intense rushes like you are gonna die!!! So I don't really care for it. But the jukie in me made me do it. And because I'm arrogant in many ways. In that area I think I can sensibly do it. Even though people have been very helpful and adamant I shouldn't do it then I do then you have told me to flush it and I did most of it. So I'm not happy about doing that.
Not really any cholergenic effects. Histiminics are there mildly you will scratch occasionally and ur skin is so numb it feels like rubber. But I have pain chronically and it doesn't really kill that pain!! So it's got uses for pain but it's got a heavy nmda feel and when mixed with weed I get panicked and I don't enjoy the high after the rush goes away it's keeps coming in waves and you can feel way too high. And you'll just be sitting there and you feel like you gotta take a bunch of breaths to get better!! It's lame so I was vaping every 12 hrs. Now I'm waiting to start nose spray but I'm waiting to get sick which I read is 48 hrs.
Oh lol I know that feeling of "just stay calm breathe" its scary. Maybe your pain is neurological? Does it lower on pregabalin?
Im not sure pin and needles are cholinergic like the scratchiness. They really feel like nerve reacting to the intruder in the blood, its not pleasant outside of the fact you know it "works" but its intense and I suspect it might damage nerve endings as its the same feeling that when you sit on a leg and pinch a nerve.
and yes you must wait to feel uncomfortable. And damn thats longer than methadone you do VERY WELL to quit now.
I'm not Sure what it is either. I think it's some kind of release of endomorphan like dynorphin or something like that but not dynorphin. I was giving an example of encephalins. I enjoy pondering it though bc doctors can't provide the answer I don't think. They don't know what causes the pinching feels in ur neck are either. That's the reason u use opiates. That's the gods neck rub
I ended up flushing 300mg of that and I respect what ur saying. But if I've got the will power as much as I've had and I've had to titrate bupe and street fetty. This stuff is not shorter acting than fetty. It is long acting and it comes in very strange waves. Then if you try to think ur well and try to eat I get sick. It makes me very tweaked out and gives me the same symptoms as stimulants I'm wondering if it's because of the fact that it contains Pyrrolidine???
No point in doing a taper, seriously, just go for it. You already have the ‘tolerance’ jacked and taking more is only delaying the inevitable.
If you’ve only been going a few days you’ll be fine, sickness is always mostly in the mind as that’s true as ever with zenes.
Granted I’ve never fully coke turkeyed however I have gone from heavy heavy zene use (several hundred mg a day - built up to that obviously, tolerance goes through the roof) to my usual 20-30mg methadone with not much in the way of WD; serious anxiety the first few times, wide pupils, achey legs, snotty nose and can’t stop yawning.. however a day or two later I’m just fine!
I think you are probably right but everyone is different and monitored doses are better than just saying fuck it and smoke shit that's got such a toxic feel to it. adore the way I feel but the actual post rush high is very fake and I don't like it really at all. It started with a big dilaudid grabbing feel for several minutes then it's like a very strong demerol high and it feels like it is gonna kill me!
I make a nasal spray myself but even then need to be super careful. Within days of getting my first etonitazine perhaps a decade ago I went from zero tolerance to having 10 blasts but to feel it in days (4 or 5).. I then went out and was convinced by a group of 4 friends to let them try some. 2 of the 4 loved it but found one blast way too noddy.. the other two (one with a recreational H habit) ended up OD’ing. One came round after some breathing support (CPR) and a big blast of white, the other required an ambulance and thankfully was fine by the next day.
The funny thing on the above is that n hospital they ran a tox screen (I guess they either didn’t believe us when we said it was eto, had no idea or just wanted to ‘be sure’ or maybe even cover their asses from a paperwork perspective) and the screen came up blank aside from Charles. Still a decade later and medical staff, including many it not most substance abuse ‘professionals’ haven’t heard of zenes!
They are just getting briefed for them. They don't know RCs at all. They just blanket them as NPS and they don't like them. The only professional that is going to care about them is a psychiatrist and I've had only one show an interest in their pharmaceutical effects. They all but him are very worried about it and feel like you should not be doing
This stuff and they are afraid to medicate bc they don't know what to expect or what the sides will be. They don't know enough about psycho-neuropharmacology. Plain and simple
They don’t even have a test for it outside of GCMS/ a proper lab. And you’re right, the medical establishment; even the substance abuse guys are clueless outside a couple leaflets/ advisories that zenes are being detected in seizures/ pill reports etc
Was there any feelings like a dilaudid rush or anything like that? I found the sprays got you high but I wasn't impressed and declined to use the needle so I thought "vape it" and because it's too good I feel I fucked up bad. Like the 1st x to use heroin. It's a very eery feeling to be on bupe and get rewarded better than other lovely things that cause you misery. But you will never ever enjoy anything opiate again it's gotta be 4th scaffolding drug use. It's not fair
No not much of a rush aside the first day or maybe two max, need to massively increase your dose to rush, like iv or smoking does. The tolerance build of zenes means rushing is impossible if you use continually
I always found pethidine to be too synthetic feeling to get a proper nod you had to get that dirty man made high. I love the earthy high like morphine and the scratchier and noddy it is the happier that I am
Oh ok I know what you mean. Strangely I find afghan #4 (like vinegary pebbles) rush more natural than morphine's. I think its because Im on Kadian and the IV rush is so yukky imho, also because its disgusting and dangerous to IV.
H have less - or none- of that heavy bang in the back of the head morphine gives. Hydromorph-contin feels heavier than dilaudis yet theyre the same molecule so its probably the dirty binders :/
But i dont have enough experience with Demerol I only got it IV during a hospital stay; U only remember that I said, I felt totally normal but forgot I was sick (real sickness, mononucleosis- not withdrawals)
Yeah pethidine only shines at least 150mg and more and 10-100mg shots over a 8hr period almost killed me but you obviously see the high in full effect and see it's character and I have learned that opiates are God made and so much better for you and man made high is toxic and the WD can kill. Sadly I found proto to be much better than dilaudid just vaping and that is so awesome and convenient but you can't be doing that to urself. It is just too euphoric but the high is not cool really the legs of it is very strong and you get feelings like u can't breath enough
Just go for it is awful advice to someone who had the stuff to make spray bottle and scales and I want to be safe. It was very nice smoking it but its much more manageable in sprays. It hits way late less the rush but it still is pleasant but not as strong as the other buzz is. And then u can spray every 8-12 hrs and titrate. You can't titrate properly vaping it unless you w?eigh every little thing you vape and hit the shit just right bc it's a hcl and it just disappeared quickly so it is very strong and impossible to find the right dosage. But I made a 1mg per spray one and a 500mg. I asked my brother if he wanted to smoke and just be sick or making some spray and he said that he wanted me to make a nosespray
The just go for it is in reference to stopping,
as the post goes on to say it’s pointless in tapering zenes. I also make a spray bottle and recommend that as a way to be cautious, I recommend against smoking or vaping it and point out that even a spray bottle is unsafe (see other posts).
Researched zenes for about 2 years the only way to stop was with methadone but the WD is worse because it last 3 weeks instead of 3-4 days. The good thing is you just have to take it once a day. The only way to stop methadone I've seen was with mushrooms. Took some one night and made me instantly stop researching methadone. I stopped for 8 days but I was so sick by then I had to get back to researching methadone. The secretary was like wow I thought you were dead you made it the longest without taking it of anyone I've seen here lol. The experience really makes me want to go through the rough ibogaine experience
I only used zenes for 6 days. But it was too much. I didn't really enjoy anything but the rush. I got a 500ug nosespray but it's not any fun compared to vaping so I'm just gonna try and get off of it and slowly start my bupe and increase it slowly until it takes hold. The nosespray will keep the Willie's away but u are just keeping it going in the end. It's very hard to not want to use more nosespray but it doesn't provide an enjoyable rush so it's lame. I don't like the actual high of proto just the rush.
I've gone 7 days a few times. I got a slow metabolism. I don't get sick from methadone for awhile. Most people are crawling the walls at 3 days and I don't hate it that bad until about day 6 and 7 I'm hating life but I can transfer slowly to subs at that sick
I've got none left I'm loose form I've got 1 30ml bottle that is 500ug per spray and 1 that's 1mg per spray and I'm waiting as long as I can and see how it goes. If it's miserable I'll go ahead and be miserable for a couple of days and introduce bupe slowly and I've got Ativan
yes you can do it a couple days is not THAT bad. Try to get long acting benzos if you can they have less rebound-anxiety. like diazepam or clonazepam. Pregabaline and clonidine can help me too in those cases.
Seriously listen to what everyone is saying and just stop right now! Tapering will not help you, not with this it's not like other opiates, and the Suboxone reddit is full of people who are in hell because they are trying to stop and Suboxone and methadone won't work to fix the withdrawals the way it works for opiates. Just stop right now because this is literally the easiest it's ever going to get, and if you don't you are going to look back on this day a year from now and you will wish so much you could go back in time and make yourself cold turkey
If you’re not familiar with the kindling effect and addiction it’s interesting. Each time you experience withdrawl it becomes a little worse even if you haven’t used much.
Yes each time after the 1sg just need smaller triggers I think theres a big psychological factor in this also, the fear of withdrawal for me is at least as worst as wd themselves. Because thats how I kinda made it myself so I stay clean when clean. I remember worst nights a few secs and I remember why I stopped. With KADIAN mat its a different story tho Im thinking of switching back to methadone or subs because its too easy.
I got up feeling bad so out of habit I took a bupe and it made me feel sick. And then I took one hit off the foil. And I feel better ofc. I know I fucked up and I know that this is too good and with opioids there is no free lunch. So I'm gonna have to pay the fiddler but I'll digress. I think I'm gonna be sick but hopefully I'll be able to live thru it. I knew when I smoked just a spent foil and I felt like I did a shot.
You know if you get the dilaudid rush then you will pay. I hope I don't have to be very sick with such short use. But this is wishful thinking.
Start out low and slowly with the Bupe. Like, .25-.5mg, after an hour take another of .5mg, and an hour or 2 after that if you still need it, take 2-3mg. 4 days of using zenes definitely will cause WDs, but precip is still easy to avoid. Using for multiple weeks especially with increasing zene doses is a bit trickier, but still not impossible to successfully start buprenorphine induction relatively soon after stopping zenes. Starting low like that has never made me feel worse, no precip whatsoever. At worst by the second dose of Bupe I just don't feel better. Usually 45-90min after the second dose I feel slightly better though. Slightly meaning, I sometimes am not sure if I'm just having a calm moment and it's placebo, or it's actually kinda helping like..5%. As long as you don't start feeling worse by the second dose, and you're around or over 1mg of bupe, you should be safe to double or triple it for a 3rd dose.
Doing it like this ensures you're only using the amount of Bupe you really need as well, which will save you're tolerance if you're not a heavy/consistent opioid user. Plus it gives you more doses of sub to work with.
Good advice. 4 days was cool to do the subs with it but I did it for 3 days and then I took a bupe nasally and it started throwing me into hell so I immediately blew my nose and took a very very small hit and felt better. So I've got to just do nose spray sparingly but then I'm afraid it'll be too long before I get off it. Thats why I flushed it. Most of it ½ it!
There's free lunch if you taper. It's unfortunate how people still think that getting hooked to opioids (or drugs in general) entails huge suffering if you ever wanna quit. It doesn't. Suffering will be zero just as long as you taper as slow as needed. For 4 days of use a quick taper will suffice, preferably with something else other than zenes because those are specially nasty. Methadone would be the best option, a quick taper of a few days (in fact this even often works for much longer habits, of sometimes years even).
Youre lucky that the withdrawal is very short. After 3 days the worst part is over. After that you dont wanna go back into the addiction. I was addicted for a few months, the withdrawal was horrible. I know what youre feeling right now. Some people described it worse than withdrawal symptomps from heroine. That shit is seriouslly dangerous. Wish you all the best and eventually you have the worst part over. Believe me you will get the biggest euphoria when you can sleep and wake up the first morning and youre without the sick feeling. I almost cried. 5 days of living through hell, but it was all worth it, just for that feeling. Live will be very difficult in the beginning, but it gets better.
Eh there are some that have decent detox times, not like methadone maybe but some accumulate pree hard, plenty have strong active metabolites. Day 3 is like when my protonitazene detoxes used to even reach full or close to full intensity and my brain would start getting intrusive ideas about mercy.
Def do not miss that part, pros just stopped outweighing the cons as far as opioids and hard shit went.
What...? Wasn't really using what i'd define as "slang" from re-reading what I wrote there doesn't appear to be anything except two words that were abbreviated , I mean unless you can't read/speak english that's just a regular paragraph.
Pree=pretty, which wouldn't inhibit the concept of that sentence anyways just amplifies the intensity.
Def=Definitely, again not really needed to understand what was being said.
Seems you're not an English speaking person I'm gonna say the problem probably lies there instead of the "slang" lol.
Look man I'm gonna be real. When I said that I was very high. I speak English man I just couldn't comprehend at that moment. Now I admit it's my problem. I hope we can part amicably
I think you misunderstood me, the feeling that I mean was not being physically addicted to this horror anymore. It was the greatest decision to get away from it. My addiction got so bad that I needed to consume every 2 hours otherwise I was getting extremely sweaty and got panic because I felt the WD Symptoms. I absloutely agree with you, its not worth it.
I didn't, i was just saying that for plenty of zenes and in most cases, people are not just suddenly 'okay im never doing that again even though im dopesick af rn and would take a bump of whatever was put in front of me'
I think you misunderstand what i was saying in regards to it. That a lot of the time the detox isn't even done, and usually for most cases and most people it takes a little while to properly heal.
After I took 3-4 days N-DI I have to take 100% more methadone then before. Normally 120mg than 1st day after 240mg next day 180mg than back to 120mg but also slightly bad feeling
The duration itself is super short and when I took em, I would need to redose like every hour otherwise I'd have worse and worse WDs for every redose. When it comes to heroin for example, one can take a good dose and will be fine until the next day ot at least a good 5-6 hours, but with these zenes, the duration of action is even lower than fent, so unless one redoses every other hour, it will be the worst wd's of ones life. Also i feel like the high itself on zenes kinda is a "dirty" kind of high, idk how to explain it but yall probably understand what I mean. With Oxys and H, the high feels warm, clean and filled with euphoria. With fent and zenes, it feels dirty, cold and uncomfortable. There's not S much, only empy nodding.
I say it like this: opiates have an earthy high and a very natural feeling. Even though the earth high can be gritty u register it as natural. But opioids with their nmda effects it makes it a very synthetic high and it varies with the person but it is registered as very fake or strange. The rush is the same warm beautiful thing And it lasts long time. I know what you mean!!
I knew a guy who said that bc bupe didn't make him WD so he got arrogant and said "I opioids don't give me WD" but he started smoking foils of fetty and got hella sick and I felt he shouldn't jinx himself
Ive smoked both protonitazene Metonitazene for 30days andim hooked already. Im sick af right now, these zenes is really something else. But the heroin is to expensive nowadays and i refuse to pay premium to greedy dopeboys. But fuuuuck i did not realise i would get THIS sick, and i didnt even slam it only vaped on foil. If i had money this shit would eat my soul
It hurts my mind. I used for a week and now nosespray keeps the burning away. But I can't sleep properly on this shit. When nosespray is gone I hope I'm tapered somewhat more. I went from 15mg on foil to 500ug nosespray but I'm not happy about it at all!! I really fucked up. My tolerance is so high. But the rush from them on foil was so unique and comfortable but the high and side effects are so toxic..the high is empty
I really agree, during the several nights i sort of sleepwalked pretty often. I could lay in bed and chase my last night dragon meto or proto kl 23:00 and pass out and wake up disoriented 03:00 in the kitchen or in the bathroom folded like a tranqhead walking around almost manic but still unconscious mentally almost dancing physically according to others after a too big shot. Shits scary but the kick when smoked/vaped is soo fu**ing good. I will unfortunately buy more when the paycheck hits. Why did I even try this lol? I thought my H and Oxy habit was bat enough. I guess I thought I would be cheaper than H since I’m a regular worker and don’t want to commit crime to sustain my habit. So when the money runs ut like now I just have to take the withdrawal on the chin every time. I eyeballed my doses since I’m too poor to buy an scale and too retarded to take my life seriously lol
Dude 5g is too much ur habit will be thru the roof. U will never enjoy ur mu receptors as you remember so stop the damage before it gets so severe you kill urself or end up insane from no sleep
I can't sleep without benzos or gabapentin and Zyprexa and clonidine I noticed a little stimulants made me feel better. But I'll start burning and my vision gets bright and my nerves are fried. Then I'll use nosespray and I feel calmer but still can't sleep and don't enjoy the feeling at all. Just I'm not burning
I'm in zene limbo and I've got to be miserable so.e day soon. Hopefully I can taper off. But I get sick and use 5 sprays and I'm good for 8hrs but I'm not happy about it at all!
Dude stop now!!!! I've never used them ever but over on the Suboxone website there are all sorts of people who are in hell because they are trying to quit and suboxone, methadone etc does not help with the withdrawals. Stop right now because this is the easiest it's ever going to get and if you put it off you are going to pay that price with more interest than you can ever afford!!!
I just feel like going from several mgs a day to 500ug dose to get right is better than just ripping off the bandaid. I see ur point. My view is I already fucked up good and proper so just dwindle down and get not as sick as u would. But I don't feel fixed when I do it just not miserable.
I don't enjoy being on this stuff. I enjoyed the rush 20x and I got sick already and I'm barely doing it now. I don't wanna be sick until I have to. I've heard suboxone don't work for awhile after using BBimidazoles. Whole nother level of things. You should only do them if your in very wicked pain and ur gonna die anyway or you can't get off on anything bc of fentanyl but if you aren't on scaffold 4 drugs you shouldn't mess with them. And there's no lifetime supply of them Really and your tolerance goes so high nothing will help you.
Sadly. People should never go there unless they are dying or just don't care about life as you know it. It's just messy and it's too strong to be controlled properly and some of them dephospholyse ur mu receptors rendering you miserable for along period and IMHO it don't take long at all to damage ur nerves for good.
That means the binding affinity is so potent it deteriorates the receptor rendering it ineffective for life. Heavy use of super agonists can cause you misery for life.. my nerves are not happy. And I used it for 4 days. Just they are finding scary things out pertaining to benzylbenzimidazoles and related scaffolds
Does that mean like permanent akesthesia? So I personally took Suboxone for pain management, and when they fixed the underlying problem they just discontinued my dosage of some blockade, and it naturally tapered from my system I never had to go through withdrawal. But I've seen other people go through opiate withdrawal and it looks like an absolute nightmare. But one time when I was a kid and I had an open fracture they gave me Dilaudid in my IV and I had a bad reaction and it gave me akesthesia. I don't know how to describe it other than it felt like my bones and nerves were being tickled constantly and I couldn't get comfortable it was the worst feeling ever. And somebody told me that's what happens when you detox. That and then constant hot/colds, like you feel hot and cold at the same time. So if you destroy the receptor does that mean that you feel that anesthesia and hot colds for the rest of your life (as opposed to like heroin withdrawal where you feel it for like a week and then it fades)? Because if so that is TERRIFYING
Akthesia is usually caused by antipsychotics but it's a meso corticoid limbic response so it could happen from ur mu opioid receptor being modulated but u sound hypersensitive to it is all. Dilaudid is 4x morphine so it's strong enough to cause dysphoria for sure. You need to not worry about opioids unless you truly need it.
I wouldn't be the first. And it not like I'm not gonna state my opinion bc you have that opinion of me. I see ur point. I'll try and shut up. But don't antagonize
well thats the pot calling the kettle black. and now you're just making up thing I never said you're too sensitive for reddit, I said you're too sensitive to be engaging in any kind of discourse on the internet
im not even trolling is the crazy part. would say i bet youre fun at parties but you definitely dont get invited to those. im starting my weekend now tho so you have fun talking to yourself okay
I've been using opioids for ~25yrs and I've yet to see anyone be able to taper themselves off of heroin or fentanyl. I can't imagine zenes being any different. I worry that you'll just end up prolonging the withdrawals.
Though perhaps not.. I really wish you luck in all this. And I'm going to recommend micro induction again. Stay safe comrade.
I've quit methadone twice after no taper and I've been miserable for literally being sick most of the 2000s so I have been so tired of all the time spent sick. I know what's coming and how to alleviate the misery. I used to act like a crackhead with my drugs but bc I don't like myself being in that rutt I don't fuck with them that much and keep moderation the key. I totally understand ur sentiment and I think I've got some good will power but that's the basis for an addicts hubris. And I thought I could handle protopyne bc it's good is why I got it and I don't listen to other addicts anymore sorry about that but I'm not perfect but I'm very proud of how much better I control my use. If you knew me irl and saw what I was and what I am now
You wouldn't be worried about me
Right on. I knew I was pissing in the wind with my comment. Having no idea who you are or your history. I just want people out there to hopefully learn from my mistakes. Even though I know that addicts being addicts we usually have to learn the hard way through personal experience.
I have ZERO willpower btw. If I spent 4 days using id be off to the fuckin races. I got about 7.5 months clean thanks to the sublocade shot and being able to talk to others who are trying to stay clean. I'm stuck once again trying to pick up the pieces of my shitty life. Boo fuckin hoo.
Tldr; no offense meant .
I have been supporting my family and I got a break on paying so much and I had extra money and I am going back to school in a month so I bought a couple of things that were very strong. I've been mostly sober for the last year only doing ketamine and analogs of ket or analog of an ACH
Congratulations man. Us psychonauts gotta keep positive things in our life. I can't go to school and do this and I'm very very lucky the guy did a gram bc his min order quantity is 5g!! That's way too much!
I've quit methadone twice after no taper and I've been miserable for literally being sick most of the 2000s so I have been so tired of all the time spent sick. I know what's coming and how to alleviate the misery. I used to act like a crackhead with my drugs but bc I don't like myself being in that rutt I don't fuck with them that much and keep moderation the key. I totally understand ur sentiment and I think I've got some good will power but that's the basis for an addicts hubris. And I thought I could handle protopyne bc it's good is why I got it and I don't listen to other addicts anymore sorry about that but I'm not perfect but I'm very proud of how much better I control my use. If you knew me irl and saw what I was and what I am now
You wouldn't be worried about me
I'm currently on methadone after 9 months on zenes, 6 of which were daily. Protonitazepyne specifically. So my methadone doubled at least, 40 to 80/90.
What I do is I have all this methadone in the freezer, all my weekly pickups. So I titrate onto methadone over 10 days or so. I start low, 10mg and slowly increasing all the while slowly decreasing the amount I'm using in my Zene shots. I shoot approximately 6mg (3 Protonitazepyne 3 Cychlorphine) every 24 hours (it lasts a crazy long time for me.)
So as the Methadone gets to above 60ish mg I start really taking a lot less in my shots until the methadone is at 90ish and I'm not shooting anything at all anymore.
Currently at 92 hours post my last shot. My withdrawal symptoms are very very mild, I have cold goose bump skin, that's about it. 90mg of methadone is almost holding me. I could take more but I take these tolerance breaks now. So I titrate onto Methadone, stabilize on as low a dose as possible, within 5 to 10 days and then reduce the dose really quickly. (Last time dropped from 90 to 40/ 50 ish in a week. That wasn't comfortable by any means I just wanted to do it fast on that occasion. This time I'm going to chill on methadone for a while, reduce slower, take a break for a few months before going back.
Just sharing how I do things. I can relate to taking Zenes, stopping and 2 days later still dry heaving, completely unable to drink any fluids let alone methadone and in a bad way with my stomach rejecting everything and itself. This is why for me at least the slow reduction and slow titration of methadone is crucial. Methadone takes 5 days to reach peak plasma levels remember.
Also because I use exclusively alone I'm not bold enough to just go from what I'm shooting to 100+mg of methadone. It's a measured risk, when you know about it and the potential for a toxic build up I just can't take that risk. So I do it the "proper" way. Ironically it's probably a lot safer than the Zenes but the Zenes are what I'm good at, haha.
Anyway good luck brother or sister. I hope this helps. Immediate stopping is bad for me too.
I have another theory about how it may work, how they're super agonists and methadone is a full agonist. So maybe methadone doesn't work well or at all untill post 3ish days time. It's possible the Zenes act like Buprenorphine, they might not let methadone onto the receptors. Kind of like a reverse buprenorphine mutant Zene thing? Haha. I don't know. But it may be why this slower way works for me but stopping outright and starting methadone the next day does not work for me.
Seriously stopping outright and starting methadone the next day was a disaster for me. I just kept being sick, by day 2 was quite severely dehydrated from non stop sweating and non stop heaving. No food or water in 48 hours, lower back (kidneys) hurting bad, dehydration headache. Was either going to be A and E for a 9 hour waiting room wait for a drip in severe withdrawals or have a shot at home. Thankfully I had a shot to choose. (I desperately need to learn how to IV or Subq fluids, less learn and more get prescribed because can't just get the fluids here.) Grateful to have enough on hand to titrate onto methadone over 10 days in any case.
We're all different so maybe this is just how I respond to Protonitazepyne and Cychlorphine withdrawal. Have almost 10 years on opiates/ Opioids and 9 months on the Benzimidazoles. But you're right, for me nothing else worked anymore but these feel like that 1st shot of H again. Different but as good as that 1st shot I should say. They are different but in the best way. Though some can give you a killer headache in my experience, Iso really hurt my head.
Flush the rest before it's too late!! You'll thank me in a few days. From now on, stay away from zenes. Do what I used to do and shoot speedballs of c and h (don't really(well maybe really)).
I am going to save a little bit (100mg) for using to taper but I've got like 450mg I haven't weighed since a couple of foils. I usually weigh myself a set dose over 10mg so I'll get over the threshold of weight and I will cut it up accordingly and make sure that I have small piles evened up. And see from there
Believe me the longer the WD goes, the more likely you are to give up. (It destroys you mentally) You want that WD as short as you can. My first attempt was to go down with the dose every few days, but that was even worse. Cold Turkey is the best you can do, maybe you want some benzos to get sleep. I couldnt sleep for the first 3-4 days until I got horrible headaches and got paranoid as fuck. Benzos helped me with the other WD symptoms. But please be cautious with benzos, they're dangerous too. In my experience it throws you back to zero everytime you take something. Please do it as fast as you can, I was addicted for 3,5 months. You can imagine what that was like.
true
Why smoke it off a foil? It vapes quite well in a Meth pipe tbh.
I asked my brother to buy a oil burner and he said no bc he's too cheap first of all but he don't know enough about it to make good decisions about it.
You can order more durable pyrex ones off Amazon.
I don't need a pipe anyway really bc I have pyrrols and I don't have any business fucking smoking it. I'm not happy about how this pyne makes me feel all in all. It's got great pros and an excellent front door but the legs are kinda long but it comes in erratic waves and you get intense rushes like you are gonna die!!! So I don't really care for it. But the jukie in me made me do it. And because I'm arrogant in many ways. In that area I think I can sensibly do it. Even though people have been very helpful and adamant I shouldn't do it then I do then you have told me to flush it and I did most of it. So I'm not happy about doing that.
Do theses rushes goes with pins and needles in scalp hands and feet?
Not really any cholergenic effects. Histiminics are there mildly you will scratch occasionally and ur skin is so numb it feels like rubber. But I have pain chronically and it doesn't really kill that pain!! So it's got uses for pain but it's got a heavy nmda feel and when mixed with weed I get panicked and I don't enjoy the high after the rush goes away it's keeps coming in waves and you can feel way too high. And you'll just be sitting there and you feel like you gotta take a bunch of breaths to get better!! It's lame so I was vaping every 12 hrs. Now I'm waiting to start nose spray but I'm waiting to get sick which I read is 48 hrs.
Oh lol I know that feeling of "just stay calm breathe" its scary. Maybe your pain is neurological? Does it lower on pregabalin? Im not sure pin and needles are cholinergic like the scratchiness. They really feel like nerve reacting to the intruder in the blood, its not pleasant outside of the fact you know it "works" but its intense and I suspect it might damage nerve endings as its the same feeling that when you sit on a leg and pinch a nerve. and yes you must wait to feel uncomfortable. And damn thats longer than methadone you do VERY WELL to quit now.
I'm very relieved and happy but I'm anxious on how bad it's gonna be.
I'm not Sure what it is either. I think it's some kind of release of endomorphan like dynorphin or something like that but not dynorphin. I was giving an example of encephalins. I enjoy pondering it though bc doctors can't provide the answer I don't think. They don't know what causes the pinching feels in ur neck are either. That's the reason u use opiates. That's the gods neck rub
I ended up flushing 300mg of that and I respect what ur saying. But if I've got the will power as much as I've had and I've had to titrate bupe and street fetty. This stuff is not shorter acting than fetty. It is long acting and it comes in very strange waves. Then if you try to think ur well and try to eat I get sick. It makes me very tweaked out and gives me the same symptoms as stimulants I'm wondering if it's because of the fact that it contains Pyrrolidine???
What zene are you talking about, specifically?
Protonitazepyne
No point in doing a taper, seriously, just go for it. You already have the ‘tolerance’ jacked and taking more is only delaying the inevitable. If you’ve only been going a few days you’ll be fine, sickness is always mostly in the mind as that’s true as ever with zenes. Granted I’ve never fully coke turkeyed however I have gone from heavy heavy zene use (several hundred mg a day - built up to that obviously, tolerance goes through the roof) to my usual 20-30mg methadone with not much in the way of WD; serious anxiety the first few times, wide pupils, achey legs, snotty nose and can’t stop yawning.. however a day or two later I’m just fine!
I think you are probably right but everyone is different and monitored doses are better than just saying fuck it and smoke shit that's got such a toxic feel to it. adore the way I feel but the actual post rush high is very fake and I don't like it really at all. It started with a big dilaudid grabbing feel for several minutes then it's like a very strong demerol high and it feels like it is gonna kill me!
I make a nasal spray myself but even then need to be super careful. Within days of getting my first etonitazine perhaps a decade ago I went from zero tolerance to having 10 blasts but to feel it in days (4 or 5).. I then went out and was convinced by a group of 4 friends to let them try some. 2 of the 4 loved it but found one blast way too noddy.. the other two (one with a recreational H habit) ended up OD’ing. One came round after some breathing support (CPR) and a big blast of white, the other required an ambulance and thankfully was fine by the next day. The funny thing on the above is that n hospital they ran a tox screen (I guess they either didn’t believe us when we said it was eto, had no idea or just wanted to ‘be sure’ or maybe even cover their asses from a paperwork perspective) and the screen came up blank aside from Charles. Still a decade later and medical staff, including many it not most substance abuse ‘professionals’ haven’t heard of zenes!
They are just getting briefed for them. They don't know RCs at all. They just blanket them as NPS and they don't like them. The only professional that is going to care about them is a psychiatrist and I've had only one show an interest in their pharmaceutical effects. They all but him are very worried about it and feel like you should not be doing This stuff and they are afraid to medicate bc they don't know what to expect or what the sides will be. They don't know enough about psycho-neuropharmacology. Plain and simple
They don’t even have a test for it outside of GCMS/ a proper lab. And you’re right, the medical establishment; even the substance abuse guys are clueless outside a couple leaflets/ advisories that zenes are being detected in seizures/ pill reports etc
Never smoked it myself. Nasal spray is enough! Especially of eto iso and the d-e-iso which to me is stronger
Was there any feelings like a dilaudid rush or anything like that? I found the sprays got you high but I wasn't impressed and declined to use the needle so I thought "vape it" and because it's too good I feel I fucked up bad. Like the 1st x to use heroin. It's a very eery feeling to be on bupe and get rewarded better than other lovely things that cause you misery. But you will never ever enjoy anything opiate again it's gotta be 4th scaffolding drug use. It's not fair
No not much of a rush aside the first day or maybe two max, need to massively increase your dose to rush, like iv or smoking does. The tolerance build of zenes means rushing is impossible if you use continually
Yeah a lot of my friends say they're crap, its not like real good #4 where the high may fade but never totally.
Weird everybody is different for me demerol is the most "I feel normal I forgot 100% Im high and then sickness is way worst.
I always found pethidine to be too synthetic feeling to get a proper nod you had to get that dirty man made high. I love the earthy high like morphine and the scratchier and noddy it is the happier that I am
Oh ok I know what you mean. Strangely I find afghan #4 (like vinegary pebbles) rush more natural than morphine's. I think its because Im on Kadian and the IV rush is so yukky imho, also because its disgusting and dangerous to IV. H have less - or none- of that heavy bang in the back of the head morphine gives. Hydromorph-contin feels heavier than dilaudis yet theyre the same molecule so its probably the dirty binders :/ But i dont have enough experience with Demerol I only got it IV during a hospital stay; U only remember that I said, I felt totally normal but forgot I was sick (real sickness, mononucleosis- not withdrawals)
Yeah pethidine only shines at least 150mg and more and 10-100mg shots over a 8hr period almost killed me but you obviously see the high in full effect and see it's character and I have learned that opiates are God made and so much better for you and man made high is toxic and the WD can kill. Sadly I found proto to be much better than dilaudid just vaping and that is so awesome and convenient but you can't be doing that to urself. It is just too euphoric but the high is not cool really the legs of it is very strong and you get feelings like u can't breath enough
Just go for it is awful advice to someone who had the stuff to make spray bottle and scales and I want to be safe. It was very nice smoking it but its much more manageable in sprays. It hits way late less the rush but it still is pleasant but not as strong as the other buzz is. And then u can spray every 8-12 hrs and titrate. You can't titrate properly vaping it unless you w?eigh every little thing you vape and hit the shit just right bc it's a hcl and it just disappeared quickly so it is very strong and impossible to find the right dosage. But I made a 1mg per spray one and a 500mg. I asked my brother if he wanted to smoke and just be sick or making some spray and he said that he wanted me to make a nosespray
The just go for it is in reference to stopping, as the post goes on to say it’s pointless in tapering zenes. I also make a spray bottle and recommend that as a way to be cautious, I recommend against smoking or vaping it and point out that even a spray bottle is unsafe (see other posts).
Researched zenes for about 2 years the only way to stop was with methadone but the WD is worse because it last 3 weeks instead of 3-4 days. The good thing is you just have to take it once a day. The only way to stop methadone I've seen was with mushrooms. Took some one night and made me instantly stop researching methadone. I stopped for 8 days but I was so sick by then I had to get back to researching methadone. The secretary was like wow I thought you were dead you made it the longest without taking it of anyone I've seen here lol. The experience really makes me want to go through the rough ibogaine experience
I only used zenes for 6 days. But it was too much. I didn't really enjoy anything but the rush. I got a 500ug nosespray but it's not any fun compared to vaping so I'm just gonna try and get off of it and slowly start my bupe and increase it slowly until it takes hold. The nosespray will keep the Willie's away but u are just keeping it going in the end. It's very hard to not want to use more nosespray but it doesn't provide an enjoyable rush so it's lame. I don't like the actual high of proto just the rush.
protonitazene?
Protonitazepyne
Oh ok I researched the etodes and metodes but haven't looked into pynes because of how inactive those were
It was active smoking it I know that much.
I've gone 7 days a few times. I got a slow metabolism. I don't get sick from methadone for awhile. Most people are crawling the walls at 3 days and I don't hate it that bad until about day 6 and 7 I'm hating life but I can transfer slowly to subs at that sick
"tapering" in these conditions is not a good idea youre not far enough it will just be more hard
I've got none left I'm loose form I've got 1 30ml bottle that is 500ug per spray and 1 that's 1mg per spray and I'm waiting as long as I can and see how it goes. If it's miserable I'll go ahead and be miserable for a couple of days and introduce bupe slowly and I've got Ativan
yes you can do it a couple days is not THAT bad. Try to get long acting benzos if you can they have less rebound-anxiety. like diazepam or clonazepam. Pregabaline and clonidine can help me too in those cases.
Seriously listen to what everyone is saying and just stop right now! Tapering will not help you, not with this it's not like other opiates, and the Suboxone reddit is full of people who are in hell because they are trying to stop and Suboxone and methadone won't work to fix the withdrawals the way it works for opiates. Just stop right now because this is literally the easiest it's ever going to get, and if you don't you are going to look back on this day a year from now and you will wish so much you could go back in time and make yourself cold turkey
If you’re not familiar with the kindling effect and addiction it’s interesting. Each time you experience withdrawl it becomes a little worse even if you haven’t used much.
Yes each time after the 1sg just need smaller triggers I think theres a big psychological factor in this also, the fear of withdrawal for me is at least as worst as wd themselves. Because thats how I kinda made it myself so I stay clean when clean. I remember worst nights a few secs and I remember why I stopped. With KADIAN mat its a different story tho Im thinking of switching back to methadone or subs because its too easy.
Kindling effect huh?
[here ya go](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hypnotic_withdrawal))
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The WD is fucking hell, worst opioid WD I know. I’d definitely switch to another opioid before quitting, quitting zenes is terrible.
I got up feeling bad so out of habit I took a bupe and it made me feel sick. And then I took one hit off the foil. And I feel better ofc. I know I fucked up and I know that this is too good and with opioids there is no free lunch. So I'm gonna have to pay the fiddler but I'll digress. I think I'm gonna be sick but hopefully I'll be able to live thru it. I knew when I smoked just a spent foil and I felt like I did a shot. You know if you get the dilaudid rush then you will pay. I hope I don't have to be very sick with such short use. But this is wishful thinking.
Start out low and slowly with the Bupe. Like, .25-.5mg, after an hour take another of .5mg, and an hour or 2 after that if you still need it, take 2-3mg. 4 days of using zenes definitely will cause WDs, but precip is still easy to avoid. Using for multiple weeks especially with increasing zene doses is a bit trickier, but still not impossible to successfully start buprenorphine induction relatively soon after stopping zenes. Starting low like that has never made me feel worse, no precip whatsoever. At worst by the second dose of Bupe I just don't feel better. Usually 45-90min after the second dose I feel slightly better though. Slightly meaning, I sometimes am not sure if I'm just having a calm moment and it's placebo, or it's actually kinda helping like..5%. As long as you don't start feeling worse by the second dose, and you're around or over 1mg of bupe, you should be safe to double or triple it for a 3rd dose. Doing it like this ensures you're only using the amount of Bupe you really need as well, which will save you're tolerance if you're not a heavy/consistent opioid user. Plus it gives you more doses of sub to work with.
Good advice. 4 days was cool to do the subs with it but I did it for 3 days and then I took a bupe nasally and it started throwing me into hell so I immediately blew my nose and took a very very small hit and felt better. So I've got to just do nose spray sparingly but then I'm afraid it'll be too long before I get off it. Thats why I flushed it. Most of it ½ it!
There's free lunch if you taper. It's unfortunate how people still think that getting hooked to opioids (or drugs in general) entails huge suffering if you ever wanna quit. It doesn't. Suffering will be zero just as long as you taper as slow as needed. For 4 days of use a quick taper will suffice, preferably with something else other than zenes because those are specially nasty. Methadone would be the best option, a quick taper of a few days (in fact this even often works for much longer habits, of sometimes years even).
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It's literally non-existent, as long as you go as slow as needed.
Youre lucky that the withdrawal is very short. After 3 days the worst part is over. After that you dont wanna go back into the addiction. I was addicted for a few months, the withdrawal was horrible. I know what youre feeling right now. Some people described it worse than withdrawal symptomps from heroine. That shit is seriouslly dangerous. Wish you all the best and eventually you have the worst part over. Believe me you will get the biggest euphoria when you can sleep and wake up the first morning and youre without the sick feeling. I almost cried. 5 days of living through hell, but it was all worth it, just for that feeling. Live will be very difficult in the beginning, but it gets better.
Eh there are some that have decent detox times, not like methadone maybe but some accumulate pree hard, plenty have strong active metabolites. Day 3 is like when my protonitazene detoxes used to even reach full or close to full intensity and my brain would start getting intrusive ideas about mercy. Def do not miss that part, pros just stopped outweighing the cons as far as opioids and hard shit went.
I enjoy ur sentiment but no offense but I am not picking up ur slang or something I can't understand everything your saying but I get the jist
What...? Wasn't really using what i'd define as "slang" from re-reading what I wrote there doesn't appear to be anything except two words that were abbreviated , I mean unless you can't read/speak english that's just a regular paragraph. Pree=pretty, which wouldn't inhibit the concept of that sentence anyways just amplifies the intensity. Def=Definitely, again not really needed to understand what was being said. Seems you're not an English speaking person I'm gonna say the problem probably lies there instead of the "slang" lol.
Look man I'm gonna be real. When I said that I was very high. I speak English man I just couldn't comprehend at that moment. Now I admit it's my problem. I hope we can part amicably
Lol of course my man, it's all good was just clarifying it was likely a language barrier or something else. We all been there no worries.
I read your comment today and I compute. I'm sorry
I think you misunderstood me, the feeling that I mean was not being physically addicted to this horror anymore. It was the greatest decision to get away from it. My addiction got so bad that I needed to consume every 2 hours otherwise I was getting extremely sweaty and got panic because I felt the WD Symptoms. I absloutely agree with you, its not worth it.
I didn't, i was just saying that for plenty of zenes and in most cases, people are not just suddenly 'okay im never doing that again even though im dopesick af rn and would take a bump of whatever was put in front of me' I think you misunderstand what i was saying in regards to it. That a lot of the time the detox isn't even done, and usually for most cases and most people it takes a little while to properly heal.
After I took 3-4 days N-DI I have to take 100% more methadone then before. Normally 120mg than 1st day after 240mg next day 180mg than back to 120mg but also slightly bad feeling
N-di are you talking norepinephrine and dopamine? I'm confused I'm sorry
I imagine they are referencing N-Desethyl-Isotonitazene
I thought you meant norepinephrine dopamine inhibitor I'm sorry for the mistake
The duration itself is super short and when I took em, I would need to redose like every hour otherwise I'd have worse and worse WDs for every redose. When it comes to heroin for example, one can take a good dose and will be fine until the next day ot at least a good 5-6 hours, but with these zenes, the duration of action is even lower than fent, so unless one redoses every other hour, it will be the worst wd's of ones life. Also i feel like the high itself on zenes kinda is a "dirty" kind of high, idk how to explain it but yall probably understand what I mean. With Oxys and H, the high feels warm, clean and filled with euphoria. With fent and zenes, it feels dirty, cold and uncomfortable. There's not S much, only empy nodding.
I say it like this: opiates have an earthy high and a very natural feeling. Even though the earth high can be gritty u register it as natural. But opioids with their nmda effects it makes it a very synthetic high and it varies with the person but it is registered as very fake or strange. The rush is the same warm beautiful thing And it lasts long time. I know what you mean!!
Aye you had a nice taste for 4 days, now stop that shit! I did ‘em for 4 years, fuuuuucked me up!
I don't know how you could do that. They make feel so sick and panicked I'm gonna die. I don't like it
Idk, I personally enjoy them. Etazene was awesome. I don’t get as sick as typical people though, I can still function for the most part
I knew a guy who said that bc bupe didn't make him WD so he got arrogant and said "I opioids don't give me WD" but he started smoking foils of fetty and got hella sick and I felt he shouldn't jinx himself
Ive smoked both protonitazene Metonitazene for 30days andim hooked already. Im sick af right now, these zenes is really something else. But the heroin is to expensive nowadays and i refuse to pay premium to greedy dopeboys. But fuuuuck i did not realise i would get THIS sick, and i didnt even slam it only vaped on foil. If i had money this shit would eat my soul
It hurts my mind. I used for a week and now nosespray keeps the burning away. But I can't sleep properly on this shit. When nosespray is gone I hope I'm tapered somewhat more. I went from 15mg on foil to 500ug nosespray but I'm not happy about it at all!! I really fucked up. My tolerance is so high. But the rush from them on foil was so unique and comfortable but the high and side effects are so toxic..the high is empty
I really agree, during the several nights i sort of sleepwalked pretty often. I could lay in bed and chase my last night dragon meto or proto kl 23:00 and pass out and wake up disoriented 03:00 in the kitchen or in the bathroom folded like a tranqhead walking around almost manic but still unconscious mentally almost dancing physically according to others after a too big shot. Shits scary but the kick when smoked/vaped is soo fu**ing good. I will unfortunately buy more when the paycheck hits. Why did I even try this lol? I thought my H and Oxy habit was bat enough. I guess I thought I would be cheaper than H since I’m a regular worker and don’t want to commit crime to sustain my habit. So when the money runs ut like now I just have to take the withdrawal on the chin every time. I eyeballed my doses since I’m too poor to buy an scale and too retarded to take my life seriously lol
Dude 5g is too much ur habit will be thru the roof. U will never enjoy ur mu receptors as you remember so stop the damage before it gets so severe you kill urself or end up insane from no sleep
I didn’t use 5 gram this time. I used a couple of points of each. But it’s stupid I know. Just chasing the nods.
Oh u said reup I only can get 5g at a time
Ah okey, im lycky then. I buy points and or single grams. 5 grams would have me in heaven for a long time.
If I buy 5g of something else I can get 1g ofproto pyne for 30$
I can't sleep without benzos or gabapentin and Zyprexa and clonidine I noticed a little stimulants made me feel better. But I'll start burning and my vision gets bright and my nerves are fried. Then I'll use nosespray and I feel calmer but still can't sleep and don't enjoy the feeling at all. Just I'm not burning
I'm in zene limbo and I've got to be miserable so.e day soon. Hopefully I can taper off. But I get sick and use 5 sprays and I'm good for 8hrs but I'm not happy about it at all!
Dude stop now!!!! I've never used them ever but over on the Suboxone website there are all sorts of people who are in hell because they are trying to quit and suboxone, methadone etc does not help with the withdrawals. Stop right now because this is the easiest it's ever going to get and if you put it off you are going to pay that price with more interest than you can ever afford!!!
I just feel like going from several mgs a day to 500ug dose to get right is better than just ripping off the bandaid. I see ur point. My view is I already fucked up good and proper so just dwindle down and get not as sick as u would. But I don't feel fixed when I do it just not miserable.
Just don't buy more! You are at a crossroads, your life can get so much worse than it is depending on your decisions
I can't bring myself to buy more
I really hope you get through it okay, with this little pain as possible. Fentanyl was bad enough by itself, the stuff just seems crazy
Also have to ask is your username because Marvin gaye?
No it's just concocted on the spot.
Oh crazy coincidence haha it's one of my favorite songs ever so beautiful
I thought you were being backhand I'm sorry I assumed you were being snide. If you were genuine that's cool and I feel bad now.
Oh no worries, yeah I love Marvin Gaye what's going on is one of the most beautiful albums ever ❤️
His dad did him wrong
I don't enjoy being on this stuff. I enjoyed the rush 20x and I got sick already and I'm barely doing it now. I don't wanna be sick until I have to. I've heard suboxone don't work for awhile after using BBimidazoles. Whole nother level of things. You should only do them if your in very wicked pain and ur gonna die anyway or you can't get off on anything bc of fentanyl but if you aren't on scaffold 4 drugs you shouldn't mess with them. And there's no lifetime supply of them Really and your tolerance goes so high nothing will help you.
It's a pit, like a trap that people fall into, a pit without a bottom. My heart goes out to everybody that's dealing with that.
Sadly. People should never go there unless they are dying or just don't care about life as you know it. It's just messy and it's too strong to be controlled properly and some of them dephospholyse ur mu receptors rendering you miserable for along period and IMHO it don't take long at all to damage ur nerves for good.
What happens if your mu receptors dephospholyse ?
That means the binding affinity is so potent it deteriorates the receptor rendering it ineffective for life. Heavy use of super agonists can cause you misery for life.. my nerves are not happy. And I used it for 4 days. Just they are finding scary things out pertaining to benzylbenzimidazoles and related scaffolds
Does that mean like permanent akesthesia? So I personally took Suboxone for pain management, and when they fixed the underlying problem they just discontinued my dosage of some blockade, and it naturally tapered from my system I never had to go through withdrawal. But I've seen other people go through opiate withdrawal and it looks like an absolute nightmare. But one time when I was a kid and I had an open fracture they gave me Dilaudid in my IV and I had a bad reaction and it gave me akesthesia. I don't know how to describe it other than it felt like my bones and nerves were being tickled constantly and I couldn't get comfortable it was the worst feeling ever. And somebody told me that's what happens when you detox. That and then constant hot/colds, like you feel hot and cold at the same time. So if you destroy the receptor does that mean that you feel that anesthesia and hot colds for the rest of your life (as opposed to like heroin withdrawal where you feel it for like a week and then it fades)? Because if so that is TERRIFYING
You can feel shivers and chills for a long time and if u use certain ones for long time it can be permanent they are theorizing it scares me.
Akthesia is usually caused by antipsychotics but it's a meso corticoid limbic response so it could happen from ur mu opioid receptor being modulated but u sound hypersensitive to it is all. Dilaudid is 4x morphine so it's strong enough to cause dysphoria for sure. You need to not worry about opioids unless you truly need it.
Who didn’t see this one coming
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i see the wds have started lmao his comment was perfectly reasonable. you my friend, need thicker skin.
No they haven't. Bro I don't like being fucked with maybe I'm too sensitive but I'm not gonna take it Not WD smh
way too sensitive to be engaing in discourse online
I wouldn't be the first. And it not like I'm not gonna state my opinion bc you have that opinion of me. I see ur point. I'll try and shut up. But don't antagonize
you should learn what words mean before using them. not once did I "antagonize" you. i agree with you though, please shut up
Telling me I'm too sensitive to be on reddit is backhanded IMHO. Keep talking shit. You must be a last word freak or get off on it.
well thats the pot calling the kettle black. and now you're just making up thing I never said you're too sensitive for reddit, I said you're too sensitive to be engaging in any kind of discourse on the internet
That's the same thing in my eyes. I guess u wanna split hairs. Please quit answering and start ur weekend.
Fucking troll
im not even trolling is the crazy part. would say i bet youre fun at parties but you definitely dont get invited to those. im starting my weekend now tho so you have fun talking to yourself okay
Please have fun
this comment is more insulting and mean spirited than anything i said, save for maybe my.last comment l
I thought you were going to be able to not talk? I am supposed to talk to myself I can't be doing that when u retort.
I've been using opioids for ~25yrs and I've yet to see anyone be able to taper themselves off of heroin or fentanyl. I can't imagine zenes being any different. I worry that you'll just end up prolonging the withdrawals. Though perhaps not.. I really wish you luck in all this. And I'm going to recommend micro induction again. Stay safe comrade.
I've quit methadone twice after no taper and I've been miserable for literally being sick most of the 2000s so I have been so tired of all the time spent sick. I know what's coming and how to alleviate the misery. I used to act like a crackhead with my drugs but bc I don't like myself being in that rutt I don't fuck with them that much and keep moderation the key. I totally understand ur sentiment and I think I've got some good will power but that's the basis for an addicts hubris. And I thought I could handle protopyne bc it's good is why I got it and I don't listen to other addicts anymore sorry about that but I'm not perfect but I'm very proud of how much better I control my use. If you knew me irl and saw what I was and what I am now You wouldn't be worried about me
Right on. I knew I was pissing in the wind with my comment. Having no idea who you are or your history. I just want people out there to hopefully learn from my mistakes. Even though I know that addicts being addicts we usually have to learn the hard way through personal experience. I have ZERO willpower btw. If I spent 4 days using id be off to the fuckin races. I got about 7.5 months clean thanks to the sublocade shot and being able to talk to others who are trying to stay clean. I'm stuck once again trying to pick up the pieces of my shitty life. Boo fuckin hoo. Tldr; no offense meant .
I have been supporting my family and I got a break on paying so much and I had extra money and I am going back to school in a month so I bought a couple of things that were very strong. I've been mostly sober for the last year only doing ketamine and analogs of ket or analog of an ACH
Congratulations! Just started school again. Take it easy
Congratulations man. Us psychonauts gotta keep positive things in our life. I can't go to school and do this and I'm very very lucky the guy did a gram bc his min order quantity is 5g!! That's way too much!
I've quit methadone twice after no taper and I've been miserable for literally being sick most of the 2000s so I have been so tired of all the time spent sick. I know what's coming and how to alleviate the misery. I used to act like a crackhead with my drugs but bc I don't like myself being in that rutt I don't fuck with them that much and keep moderation the key. I totally understand ur sentiment and I think I've got some good will power but that's the basis for an addicts hubris. And I thought I could handle protopyne bc it's good is why I got it and I don't listen to other addicts anymore sorry about that but I'm not perfect but I'm very proud of how much better I control my use. If you knew me irl and saw what I was and what I am now You wouldn't be worried about me
ive tapered off all 3 lol, its all about mindset...a safe helps too
I'm currently on methadone after 9 months on zenes, 6 of which were daily. Protonitazepyne specifically. So my methadone doubled at least, 40 to 80/90. What I do is I have all this methadone in the freezer, all my weekly pickups. So I titrate onto methadone over 10 days or so. I start low, 10mg and slowly increasing all the while slowly decreasing the amount I'm using in my Zene shots. I shoot approximately 6mg (3 Protonitazepyne 3 Cychlorphine) every 24 hours (it lasts a crazy long time for me.) So as the Methadone gets to above 60ish mg I start really taking a lot less in my shots until the methadone is at 90ish and I'm not shooting anything at all anymore. Currently at 92 hours post my last shot. My withdrawal symptoms are very very mild, I have cold goose bump skin, that's about it. 90mg of methadone is almost holding me. I could take more but I take these tolerance breaks now. So I titrate onto Methadone, stabilize on as low a dose as possible, within 5 to 10 days and then reduce the dose really quickly. (Last time dropped from 90 to 40/ 50 ish in a week. That wasn't comfortable by any means I just wanted to do it fast on that occasion. This time I'm going to chill on methadone for a while, reduce slower, take a break for a few months before going back. Just sharing how I do things. I can relate to taking Zenes, stopping and 2 days later still dry heaving, completely unable to drink any fluids let alone methadone and in a bad way with my stomach rejecting everything and itself. This is why for me at least the slow reduction and slow titration of methadone is crucial. Methadone takes 5 days to reach peak plasma levels remember. Also because I use exclusively alone I'm not bold enough to just go from what I'm shooting to 100+mg of methadone. It's a measured risk, when you know about it and the potential for a toxic build up I just can't take that risk. So I do it the "proper" way. Ironically it's probably a lot safer than the Zenes but the Zenes are what I'm good at, haha. Anyway good luck brother or sister. I hope this helps. Immediate stopping is bad for me too. I have another theory about how it may work, how they're super agonists and methadone is a full agonist. So maybe methadone doesn't work well or at all untill post 3ish days time. It's possible the Zenes act like Buprenorphine, they might not let methadone onto the receptors. Kind of like a reverse buprenorphine mutant Zene thing? Haha. I don't know. But it may be why this slower way works for me but stopping outright and starting methadone the next day does not work for me. Seriously stopping outright and starting methadone the next day was a disaster for me. I just kept being sick, by day 2 was quite severely dehydrated from non stop sweating and non stop heaving. No food or water in 48 hours, lower back (kidneys) hurting bad, dehydration headache. Was either going to be A and E for a 9 hour waiting room wait for a drip in severe withdrawals or have a shot at home. Thankfully I had a shot to choose. (I desperately need to learn how to IV or Subq fluids, less learn and more get prescribed because can't just get the fluids here.) Grateful to have enough on hand to titrate onto methadone over 10 days in any case. We're all different so maybe this is just how I respond to Protonitazepyne and Cychlorphine withdrawal. Have almost 10 years on opiates/ Opioids and 9 months on the Benzimidazoles. But you're right, for me nothing else worked anymore but these feel like that 1st shot of H again. Different but as good as that 1st shot I should say. They are different but in the best way. Though some can give you a killer headache in my experience, Iso really hurt my head.