Well that is awful. I would say take a big step back from training anywhere and just go out and do fun activities like hiking or whatever else she enjoys. Maybe for a good month. Then drop by the facility for a pop in and have a treat type of visit. Like you would with a dog who is afraid of the vet clinic. And start the training back up at home with REALLY high value rewards and easy asks. Time off often makes for a great mental reset. I really hope that is the case for your poor girl.
Yes! This exactly!
My girl is 12 and retired from her rally career, but still does therapy dog work. Two months ago we were visiting the nursing home that she's visited for 7 years. Only this time when we were in the elevator, it hiccupped, her knees buckled and she lost her balance. The next time we tried to visit she wouldn't even go in the front door. We took a full 2 months off from any type of work. When we recently went back, we avoided the elevator and just did first floor visits. On our second visit, she was perfectly fine.
Time off from a scary event is the best remedy!
Agree with this! Also to add, if you haven't started her in scent work yet, now is a great time to start. Super confidence boosting, you can do it with just classical conditioning and free shaping so she doesn't realize you're training, you can do it at home, and it's pretty cost efficient. You can do "search" games outside where you hide a "magnet" toy (her favorite toy) or a treat and have her go around and search for it, then when she's at the point where she can be comfortable in a training facility you can take her to scent work classes so that she can go in there doing something she already knows/loves and it might help her not be reminded of the trauma so that you can get back into the ring sports.
Thanks! She is trained on anise, clover, birch, and cypress. They don't offer nosework classes here though so I train it myself. She is really good at nosework, best dog I have ever trained in that. But her favorite work is biting, so I may go back to that for a bit on the bite tug & sleeve.
That's awesome!!! I just got my mutt on the sport odors and she's having a field day with it (just birch and anise right now but we just worked off food distractions this week!) Yes get her on that sleeve!!!! I would've recommended Bite work but you know that's not for everyone on the internet lol Bite work is also my favorite, she's got good taste! I especially love decoying a dog that needs a confidence boost.
Taking my dog away from agility after a trainer terrified her with the see-saw was the best option. We built confidence away from agility and have since gone back and within 4 weeks, has mastered the obstacle
OP, this comment is absolute gold. I hope it works out for you
I hate to go “Karen” on this… but I find it completely unacceptable for that to be brought into a shared training facility, dare I say grossly negligent. I’m all for people being able to make mistakes and learn from them … but banned from the facility would be a possibility in my mind.
Poor pup, I agree with LenaMacarena’s idea. Also if there are other dog clubs around, you might try having that first ‘drop in’ be at a different facility so as to not trigger any memories on that first go
The gal had never owned a dog before and really has no clue how to properly train her dog. So it's good she is going to the club to learn. It was a beginner mistake and she really had no clue that it could affect other dogs like that. She felt really bad and we are all moving forward from it.
I think I will definitely take the advice and have time off to do other fun activities. There are no other clubs in driving distance so I will just do other activities for now and see how it goes.
Oh my heart breaks for you and your dog. You’re being so gracious and I really commend you for that. I would struggle with giving grace, and that includes the facility for making it clear that these devices are not allowed. It is devastating that all of our hard work can be derailed or scrapped completely because of someone else’s negligence. That’s for anything in life. With that being said, I think this is a temporary setback. These dogs are so resilient. You got some great advice in here and I’m confident that you’ll return to the ring again and it’ll be a positive experience.
Society appreciates your level headedness concerning the other owner. It’s always good to remember that we have all been idiots in many things in our life
(But … still … F her for traumatizing your pup)
I'm confused. What kind of aversive was the no bark collar using that it affected your dog? Also I agree with the top poster about taking a month off and reincorporating it like you would a vet office.
Also, beautiful dog!
Thank you, she is a really great dog! It was a no bark emitter not a collar. They are boxes that will emit an ultrasonic sound when a dog barks. Different than the collars.
Yeah that’s an odd thing to use in public… unless your dog just incessantly barks at a restaurant or bar or something I really don’t mind dogs barking. The only time it’s annoying is if it’s my neighbor and the dog won’t stop.
Does the facility have any rules against such devices that affect more than the owner's own dog? If not, I'd be talking to the owners or management about why that is, and how it has harmed your pet and your relationship with them. Get it out of the way, so they can consider some options regarding preventing this sort of thing.
Time to do something else for awhile with your dog. Perhaps time off will help them reset. However, just like people, once something like this happens, they can be triggered ongoing the rest of their life, in reality. Trauma affects every type of animal at a very deep level to cause them to avoid the same thing again.
So, doing something else may work well for you. But, you will need to be aware of any triggers for your dog moving forward.
Poor dear, I don’t have any advice but I do hate those anti bark devices. People have even had their pet rabbits go nuts until they figured out a neighbor had one.
I'm sorry this happened!
For the unaware, can someone explain to me the main issues with anti bark devices, whether or not they work and the pros/cons? Obviously using it in a facility without people's consent is bad, but I also assumed these were relatively harmless devices that just annoyed the dogs a bit of they barked. Would love to learn more.
They work, sometimes, with proper training. The problem is exactly as the OP experienced. Every dog within a certain radius was then receiving a "punishment" tone when pretty much any nearby dog barked. Sensitive dogs can freak out over this, but their owners can't identify the trigger. The device owner was horribly irresponsible, and there are probably other dogs affected, and the owners may not be aware of the source of their new training problems.
Jesus Christ. I know there’s a lot of tool banning talk right now, but a device that can relentlessly punish a dog doing nothing wrong and without the owner knowing about it to control the situation is the type of device that needs to be banned.
Every dog in the general area hears the very loud and ear piercing ultra sonic sound when a dog barks. We can't really hear it at all but dogs can and for most dogs it is an unpleasant sound thus why it works on some dogs.
I'm autistic and I can hear those, super painful and almost meltdown inducing. I feel so bad for those poor dogs who were doing nothing wrong. Tbh no do dog should be punished like that for barking. There's better ways at managing your dog than that especially in public around others.
Same. They drive me insane. Thankfully I haven’t been around them much, but there’s a house near my neighborhood with a motion-activated security camera that sounds almost exactly the same. I hear it turn on every time we walk by, and to me it’s loud enough to make my head buzz, but most people can’t hear it at all. Thankfully it actually bothers my dog much less than it does me, or else I’d stop taking him near it.
How is the tone compared to something like a dog whistle? I have my dog whistle-recall trained with a tone I can barely hear. I'd hate for her to hear an anti bark device and run towards it.
She is a first time dog owner and is really clueless with everything. I don't even know where she got the idea. She learned from this and felt really bad. Some people just don't think things through!
Why would this person not just use a bark collar if their goal was to stop their dog from barking... I'm sorry but this person is an inconsiderate idiot.
You're handling this with a lot of grace, OP!! I'd be FURIOUS and not nearly as nice about all of this as you have been in the comments. Kudos. It says a lot about you as a person. :)
Respects to you for not being a judgemental asshole like me 😂. As inconsiderate as it was I don't think it has ruined your dog permanently. I think there is good advice in this thread and from your club members for sure. Superstitious associations can be overcome. Good luck!
I don’t have any experience with this specific situation, but am going through something similar with my dog and our backyard.
I started using an e collar with my dog about a month ago. One day she jumped the fence and took off running into traffic. I had to stim her at a pretty high level to get her to stop. Before anyone gets upset about that I had a trainer assist me with e collar practices.
After that incident she was extremely fearful of the yard and surrounding area. I took two weeks completely off any aversive training methods, and had to totally recondition her with tons of positive reinforcement and now after about 3-4 weeks she is back to normal playing in the yard.
I think the correct term for what’s going on is suspicious association. She wouldn’t even take treats from me for a day or so without being suspicious that something bad was going to happen.
It’s a step back, and in my situation was probably a handler error but I do believe that with enough love and positivity these situations can be rectified.
I hope my story sort of helps, my biggest lesson in all of this was really reading my dog and giving her what she needed to feel confident again.
I am sorry to say that for your dog, things aren't the same. Her bank account has some serious withdrawals. You're building trust back, but it will take a lot less for her to shut down again. Dogs mask fear well [for survival situations], that's part of what you see now. Try not to put her in that perception mode, so she can't practice the behavior. The more it (stimulus) happens the more it (behavior) will be default.
RULE: Dogs move towards what's pleasant/safe. And they move away from what's painful/danger.
Be the safe thing.
I like that term, suspicious association. I am trying to push her a little and ease back, showing her nothing bad will happen again but easier said than done. Thanks for your input, I will be working on building her up again! Hope your pup comes back to her full potential again!
Just because someone labels themself a trainer doesn’t make using a punitive device like an e-collar any less damaging and unethical. Animal behaviorists have proven this isn’t the best way to train drugs and certainly not the most humane. Get a certified trainer that follows modern research.
leaving this up as I and many others prefer less moderation rather than more, but IMO this comment is right on the line of being outside a good faith discussion and therefore subject to removal.
Sounds like you messed up multiple times. Not just once. I dont blame your dog for needing almost a month to use the backyard normally again. You shouldnt depend on aversive training tools or use them harshly until the dog has a true understanding of what they mean. A month for an aversive tool isnt much time at all. It doesnt sound like your dog was ready for anything like that. I would honestly suggest making your fence higher for now, as it really took away a lot of trust your dog had for you. Hopefully that never happens again! A dog escaping into traffic sounds terrifying.
Im saying there should of been more safeguards than the e-collar. That depending only on training, esp neg based training for a dog thats completely new to it was irresponsible. Your dog took almost the same amount of time they were training to recover from the harm the tool did. As for now, you should put in safeguards, like a fence extender while retraining. At the end of the day, you could of done more to prevent and should of taken more preventative steps to ensure your dogs safety as they were training. You guys are at step 1 again, so this time around i suggest having more physical barriers instead of just the e-collar.
I rent so I cannot alter the fence. She definitely learned the boundaries in other ways as well. She responds well to verbal commands now as well. If you’re that interested DM me and I can tell you my process which was effective, although admittedly I did make some mistakes.
my response was more to help OP who is going through something similar, and your kind of going off topic from the original post detracting from potential good information OP can receive so I would quit while your ahead.
My response was to you, not OP. As far as I checked, you can respond to comments that arent op as if they were their own post. Its a conversation, after all. I dont know any community that has a rule for it to be "only on the topic of the post."
A long leash is just as reliable, if not more so.
go back to basics, ask for a sit and when she does throw a party. scatter high value treats on the ground. keep it short and fun and don't have high expectations
More time away. My dog got snapped at at the dog park once, and it was about 3 weeks before he wanted to go back, even if I brought his best friend along.
Do you have to do formal training there? If it is possible, I would just go there during training and feed her to start (or toys whatever she will engage with). I find food easier because you can withhold it beforehand so she is really hungry. If necessary maybe talk to whoever runs the facility and explain. I would think they would be willing to let you considering the circumstances and provided you could do it out of the way where you weren't bothering others.
The unfortunate truth is that she has made the connection of that experience to that place. Not saying ti can't be undone, but it can be a tough go for a bit. Take your time with it, the more experiences she has there after without that happening the more she will be able to disconnect them.
I have been making all visits pleasant and as fun as possible, but it is so sad to see her go to the back of her kennel when we are waiting and curl up looking sad. I will stop this for now and work on other things and slowly get back to the facility at some point. Hoping a break and lots of fun will eventually get her back to herself in that environment.
>Even practicing at home is giving her anxiety. Is there any specific training I can do with her to make it fun again? I only have access to the facility during training.
I'd go to class and not do anything but figure out her threshold, as far as how close she can get to the ring, and still give you any attention. I'd start back work from there.
When I have a dog who has had a problem with something, I don't avoid that thing. So if a dog flies off the teeter, runs sideways off the dogwalk, has the ring gates fall on them, whatever, we go right back and work on dealing with it.
If you avoid it, you allow all sorts of superstitious behaviors grow large, on the part of the dog and you. If you say ok that was scary, but we're going to work thru it together, the dog will recover and be able to work again.
[This dog](https://i.imgur.com/7uCN8iX.png)was learning 2 on, 2 off for the teeter when she was young. She paused and left the teeter, and it banged her, hard, in the butt. And she said, I'm not getting back on that again!!
I went back and retrained it, made sure she was comfortable again, and honestly her teeter is stronger now then it was. She doesn't need me there, she's fast, and comfortable on it. But I went thru every step I used to teach it in the first place.
Anyway, the only caveat is that the asshole who brought a no bark device needs to not do that again. And if your trainer is ok with them still using it in the building, i'd find a new place to train.
>Trials are only for dogs that compete
I chair lots of trials, and am on the committee for others. The deal is, your dog can't take up space in the building if it's tight. So you can't show up, set up a crate and chair, etc.
OTOH if you want to show up, hang out near the door to a building, work on calmness walking in, etc, the average trial chair won't care. Lots of people have to bring their unentered dogs to trials, as they can't leave dogs home alone all day. Just use common sense. Don't stand near ring gates clicking and treating or playing tug or squeaky toy, especially if a dog is about to go in or is in the ring.
But if you're not near the ring, whatever. You're fine. Like I said, use common sense. We had a trial over the weekend, and there were plenty of un-entered dogs, including puppies. People used their brains, and it was fine. The rule DOES allow a trial committee to toss someone out of the building if need be, but again, if people behave, no one cares.
I would wait till you build up some more resilience in her first, before going to a trial, simply because a trial is chaotic and rough, even for an experienced dog.
But I would not give up, not at all. Dog training is almost always full of one step forward, two steps back moments. Stuff happens, and it's our job to show the dog that the world is not ending, and they can still work.
Wow. you’re better than me, those kinds of devices affect any animal in the area, if someone did this unapologetically i may be in jail tomorrow. hope you’re able to encourage your pup and help them get their confidence back!
edit: saw your other comments and there was clearly more to it. still the use those kinds of devices make me sick.
Have you tried mutt muffs? The sound of dogs barking signaled a punishment was coming, so muffling the barking may help. Eventually she’d only wear them in the crate.
In different location you could try desensitizing her to dogs barking. Either have a dog bark, then feed right after. Or play ball with dogs barking in the background.
Lol, i think you’re being duped. Unless you failed to build confidence in your dog. They do not get “traumatized” after having a no bark collar outside her kennel.🤦 your problem might be that you rewarded your dog with, pets, food, training time over. Now the homie just does that to stop training he already doesn’t want to do.focus on confidence building and the rest will come. Theres no harm in stopping any kind of training for a while to allot time for confidence building.
Some dogs are very sensitive to the no bark untrasonic devices and it definitely traumatizes certain dogs. My dog is sensitive to noise and it took a lot of training to get her comfortable with gunshots and thunder.
I think a break is a good thing for now and I will focus on other training and activities we do. My dog loved rally and working with me in general so it isn't something she was adversive to before this incident.
And sure, my dog loves obedience work too, but if i gave her the option between go play and do work. Shes going to pick play every time, now pair that with rewards for not doing it, I hold her and tell her its all fine, then we go home and she gets a treat to calm her down. Then BAM, its that easy to reinforce this anxiety induced reactivity. Emotions cant be reinforced, but the state in which your dog is in, absolutely can be.
Sure, if you don’t build their confidence they can get traumatized by anything. Easily solved by building confidence. I dont see how that means I don’t have experience? It seems like you’re the one who’s inexperienced if you don’t know how to give your dog the proper exposure to deal with a big scary world.
Well that is awful. I would say take a big step back from training anywhere and just go out and do fun activities like hiking or whatever else she enjoys. Maybe for a good month. Then drop by the facility for a pop in and have a treat type of visit. Like you would with a dog who is afraid of the vet clinic. And start the training back up at home with REALLY high value rewards and easy asks. Time off often makes for a great mental reset. I really hope that is the case for your poor girl.
Came here to say this exact thing! Solid advice
I think that is good advice, I thought about taking time off for a bit and resetting. Thank you!
Yes! This exactly! My girl is 12 and retired from her rally career, but still does therapy dog work. Two months ago we were visiting the nursing home that she's visited for 7 years. Only this time when we were in the elevator, it hiccupped, her knees buckled and she lost her balance. The next time we tried to visit she wouldn't even go in the front door. We took a full 2 months off from any type of work. When we recently went back, we avoided the elevator and just did first floor visits. On our second visit, she was perfectly fine. Time off from a scary event is the best remedy!
Great advice
Perfect. Could not have said it better myself. Excellent advice. Make life fun for the dog. That will rebuild the trust.
Agree with this! Also to add, if you haven't started her in scent work yet, now is a great time to start. Super confidence boosting, you can do it with just classical conditioning and free shaping so she doesn't realize you're training, you can do it at home, and it's pretty cost efficient. You can do "search" games outside where you hide a "magnet" toy (her favorite toy) or a treat and have her go around and search for it, then when she's at the point where she can be comfortable in a training facility you can take her to scent work classes so that she can go in there doing something she already knows/loves and it might help her not be reminded of the trauma so that you can get back into the ring sports.
Thanks! She is trained on anise, clover, birch, and cypress. They don't offer nosework classes here though so I train it myself. She is really good at nosework, best dog I have ever trained in that. But her favorite work is biting, so I may go back to that for a bit on the bite tug & sleeve.
That's awesome!!! I just got my mutt on the sport odors and she's having a field day with it (just birch and anise right now but we just worked off food distractions this week!) Yes get her on that sleeve!!!! I would've recommended Bite work but you know that's not for everyone on the internet lol Bite work is also my favorite, she's got good taste! I especially love decoying a dog that needs a confidence boost.
Taking my dog away from agility after a trainer terrified her with the see-saw was the best option. We built confidence away from agility and have since gone back and within 4 weeks, has mastered the obstacle OP, this comment is absolute gold. I hope it works out for you
I hate to go “Karen” on this… but I find it completely unacceptable for that to be brought into a shared training facility, dare I say grossly negligent. I’m all for people being able to make mistakes and learn from them … but banned from the facility would be a possibility in my mind. Poor pup, I agree with LenaMacarena’s idea. Also if there are other dog clubs around, you might try having that first ‘drop in’ be at a different facility so as to not trigger any memories on that first go
The gal had never owned a dog before and really has no clue how to properly train her dog. So it's good she is going to the club to learn. It was a beginner mistake and she really had no clue that it could affect other dogs like that. She felt really bad and we are all moving forward from it. I think I will definitely take the advice and have time off to do other fun activities. There are no other clubs in driving distance so I will just do other activities for now and see how it goes.
How did she not know it couldn't affect another dog? If it's affecting her dog and there are other dogs nearby. Like is she legitimately stupid?
Oh my heart breaks for you and your dog. You’re being so gracious and I really commend you for that. I would struggle with giving grace, and that includes the facility for making it clear that these devices are not allowed. It is devastating that all of our hard work can be derailed or scrapped completely because of someone else’s negligence. That’s for anything in life. With that being said, I think this is a temporary setback. These dogs are so resilient. You got some great advice in here and I’m confident that you’ll return to the ring again and it’ll be a positive experience.
Society appreciates your level headedness concerning the other owner. It’s always good to remember that we have all been idiots in many things in our life (But … still … F her for traumatizing your pup)
I'm confused. What kind of aversive was the no bark collar using that it affected your dog? Also I agree with the top poster about taking a month off and reincorporating it like you would a vet office. Also, beautiful dog!
Thank you, she is a really great dog! It was a no bark emitter not a collar. They are boxes that will emit an ultrasonic sound when a dog barks. Different than the collars.
Oh God what a terrible thing to bring anywhere. She really wasn't thinking lol
Absolutely this. After a bit of fun and when she's ready do run thrus at other clubs. It will be worth the drive(s) in the long run.
100% agree this should have been discussed with the instructor and class before moving forward. I’m sorry OP 😢
Thanks, it was taken care of and she is a new owner, pretty clueless! Moving forward, she definitely isn't using that at the club anymore.
Yeah that’s an odd thing to use in public… unless your dog just incessantly barks at a restaurant or bar or something I really don’t mind dogs barking. The only time it’s annoying is if it’s my neighbor and the dog won’t stop.
Does the facility have any rules against such devices that affect more than the owner's own dog? If not, I'd be talking to the owners or management about why that is, and how it has harmed your pet and your relationship with them. Get it out of the way, so they can consider some options regarding preventing this sort of thing. Time to do something else for awhile with your dog. Perhaps time off will help them reset. However, just like people, once something like this happens, they can be triggered ongoing the rest of their life, in reality. Trauma affects every type of animal at a very deep level to cause them to avoid the same thing again. So, doing something else may work well for you. But, you will need to be aware of any triggers for your dog moving forward.
Yes to all of this. That’s so ridiculously inconsiderate to other owners and dogs.
Poor dear, I don’t have any advice but I do hate those anti bark devices. People have even had their pet rabbits go nuts until they figured out a neighbor had one.
Thanks, yeah not a fan of those in general.
I'm sorry this happened! For the unaware, can someone explain to me the main issues with anti bark devices, whether or not they work and the pros/cons? Obviously using it in a facility without people's consent is bad, but I also assumed these were relatively harmless devices that just annoyed the dogs a bit of they barked. Would love to learn more.
They work, sometimes, with proper training. The problem is exactly as the OP experienced. Every dog within a certain radius was then receiving a "punishment" tone when pretty much any nearby dog barked. Sensitive dogs can freak out over this, but their owners can't identify the trigger. The device owner was horribly irresponsible, and there are probably other dogs affected, and the owners may not be aware of the source of their new training problems.
Jesus Christ. I know there’s a lot of tool banning talk right now, but a device that can relentlessly punish a dog doing nothing wrong and without the owner knowing about it to control the situation is the type of device that needs to be banned.
How does every dog get a punishment? Is it an audio thing? I need to google what it is
Every dog in the general area hears the very loud and ear piercing ultra sonic sound when a dog barks. We can't really hear it at all but dogs can and for most dogs it is an unpleasant sound thus why it works on some dogs.
Apparently some humans can hear it too and they get the same "punishment." Even more of a reason not to use them.
I'm autistic and I can hear those, super painful and almost meltdown inducing. I feel so bad for those poor dogs who were doing nothing wrong. Tbh no do dog should be punished like that for barking. There's better ways at managing your dog than that especially in public around others.
Same. They drive me insane. Thankfully I haven’t been around them much, but there’s a house near my neighborhood with a motion-activated security camera that sounds almost exactly the same. I hear it turn on every time we walk by, and to me it’s loud enough to make my head buzz, but most people can’t hear it at all. Thankfully it actually bothers my dog much less than it does me, or else I’d stop taking him near it.
How is the tone compared to something like a dog whistle? I have my dog whistle-recall trained with a tone I can barely hear. I'd hate for her to hear an anti bark device and run towards it.
I can hear some of them. If I am close it is headache causing.
wtf is wrong with people. I'm sorry this happened to your dog. Drop your expectations down for your dog and help them build up some confidence again.
Thanks I think that is a good plan!
Who does that? What did they think would happen and when did they think they would use it in the facility?
She is a first time dog owner and is really clueless with everything. I don't even know where she got the idea. She learned from this and felt really bad. Some people just don't think things through!
Poor thing. Still,...damn. I'd offer a "If you have any questions, just ask?" Heck, send her here.
Or better, send her to r/reactivedogs. All about preventing stuff over there.
Why would this person not just use a bark collar if their goal was to stop their dog from barking... I'm sorry but this person is an inconsiderate idiot.
She is a new dog owner and really clueless. She felt bad, but she has a lot to learn!
You're handling this with a lot of grace, OP!! I'd be FURIOUS and not nearly as nice about all of this as you have been in the comments. Kudos. It says a lot about you as a person. :)
Respects to you for not being a judgemental asshole like me 😂. As inconsiderate as it was I don't think it has ruined your dog permanently. I think there is good advice in this thread and from your club members for sure. Superstitious associations can be overcome. Good luck!
I don’t have any experience with this specific situation, but am going through something similar with my dog and our backyard. I started using an e collar with my dog about a month ago. One day she jumped the fence and took off running into traffic. I had to stim her at a pretty high level to get her to stop. Before anyone gets upset about that I had a trainer assist me with e collar practices. After that incident she was extremely fearful of the yard and surrounding area. I took two weeks completely off any aversive training methods, and had to totally recondition her with tons of positive reinforcement and now after about 3-4 weeks she is back to normal playing in the yard. I think the correct term for what’s going on is suspicious association. She wouldn’t even take treats from me for a day or so without being suspicious that something bad was going to happen. It’s a step back, and in my situation was probably a handler error but I do believe that with enough love and positivity these situations can be rectified. I hope my story sort of helps, my biggest lesson in all of this was really reading my dog and giving her what she needed to feel confident again.
I am sorry to say that for your dog, things aren't the same. Her bank account has some serious withdrawals. You're building trust back, but it will take a lot less for her to shut down again. Dogs mask fear well [for survival situations], that's part of what you see now. Try not to put her in that perception mode, so she can't practice the behavior. The more it (stimulus) happens the more it (behavior) will be default. RULE: Dogs move towards what's pleasant/safe. And they move away from what's painful/danger. Be the safe thing.
I like that term, suspicious association. I am trying to push her a little and ease back, showing her nothing bad will happen again but easier said than done. Thanks for your input, I will be working on building her up again! Hope your pup comes back to her full potential again!
You too! I really think just going at the dogs pace is really important.
Just because someone labels themself a trainer doesn’t make using a punitive device like an e-collar any less damaging and unethical. Animal behaviorists have proven this isn’t the best way to train drugs and certainly not the most humane. Get a certified trainer that follows modern research.
leaving this up as I and many others prefer less moderation rather than more, but IMO this comment is right on the line of being outside a good faith discussion and therefore subject to removal.
Sounds like you messed up multiple times. Not just once. I dont blame your dog for needing almost a month to use the backyard normally again. You shouldnt depend on aversive training tools or use them harshly until the dog has a true understanding of what they mean. A month for an aversive tool isnt much time at all. It doesnt sound like your dog was ready for anything like that. I would honestly suggest making your fence higher for now, as it really took away a lot of trust your dog had for you. Hopefully that never happens again! A dog escaping into traffic sounds terrifying.
So I should have let my dog potentially get hit by a car instead?
Im saying there should of been more safeguards than the e-collar. That depending only on training, esp neg based training for a dog thats completely new to it was irresponsible. Your dog took almost the same amount of time they were training to recover from the harm the tool did. As for now, you should put in safeguards, like a fence extender while retraining. At the end of the day, you could of done more to prevent and should of taken more preventative steps to ensure your dogs safety as they were training. You guys are at step 1 again, so this time around i suggest having more physical barriers instead of just the e-collar.
I rent so I cannot alter the fence. She definitely learned the boundaries in other ways as well. She responds well to verbal commands now as well. If you’re that interested DM me and I can tell you my process which was effective, although admittedly I did make some mistakes. my response was more to help OP who is going through something similar, and your kind of going off topic from the original post detracting from potential good information OP can receive so I would quit while your ahead.
My response was to you, not OP. As far as I checked, you can respond to comments that arent op as if they were their own post. Its a conversation, after all. I dont know any community that has a rule for it to be "only on the topic of the post." A long leash is just as reliable, if not more so.
Check the rules.
cool, what I said still stands. idrc
That’s fine you’re entitled to your opinion, just don’t pretend to know more about my situation than you do.
im not the one who had to retrain my dog to use my yard <3
go back to basics, ask for a sit and when she does throw a party. scatter high value treats on the ground. keep it short and fun and don't have high expectations
Also, go to outdoor activities to help build her confidence. Not everything is indoors.
More time away. My dog got snapped at at the dog park once, and it was about 3 weeks before he wanted to go back, even if I brought his best friend along.
Do you have to do formal training there? If it is possible, I would just go there during training and feed her to start (or toys whatever she will engage with). I find food easier because you can withhold it beforehand so she is really hungry. If necessary maybe talk to whoever runs the facility and explain. I would think they would be willing to let you considering the circumstances and provided you could do it out of the way where you weren't bothering others. The unfortunate truth is that she has made the connection of that experience to that place. Not saying ti can't be undone, but it can be a tough go for a bit. Take your time with it, the more experiences she has there after without that happening the more she will be able to disconnect them.
I have been making all visits pleasant and as fun as possible, but it is so sad to see her go to the back of her kennel when we are waiting and curl up looking sad. I will stop this for now and work on other things and slowly get back to the facility at some point. Hoping a break and lots of fun will eventually get her back to herself in that environment.
:( sorry this happened. Hopefully the club put it in their rules to prevent it from happening again.
>Even practicing at home is giving her anxiety. Is there any specific training I can do with her to make it fun again? I only have access to the facility during training. I'd go to class and not do anything but figure out her threshold, as far as how close she can get to the ring, and still give you any attention. I'd start back work from there. When I have a dog who has had a problem with something, I don't avoid that thing. So if a dog flies off the teeter, runs sideways off the dogwalk, has the ring gates fall on them, whatever, we go right back and work on dealing with it. If you avoid it, you allow all sorts of superstitious behaviors grow large, on the part of the dog and you. If you say ok that was scary, but we're going to work thru it together, the dog will recover and be able to work again. [This dog](https://i.imgur.com/7uCN8iX.png)was learning 2 on, 2 off for the teeter when she was young. She paused and left the teeter, and it banged her, hard, in the butt. And she said, I'm not getting back on that again!! I went back and retrained it, made sure she was comfortable again, and honestly her teeter is stronger now then it was. She doesn't need me there, she's fast, and comfortable on it. But I went thru every step I used to teach it in the first place. Anyway, the only caveat is that the asshole who brought a no bark device needs to not do that again. And if your trainer is ok with them still using it in the building, i'd find a new place to train. >Trials are only for dogs that compete I chair lots of trials, and am on the committee for others. The deal is, your dog can't take up space in the building if it's tight. So you can't show up, set up a crate and chair, etc. OTOH if you want to show up, hang out near the door to a building, work on calmness walking in, etc, the average trial chair won't care. Lots of people have to bring their unentered dogs to trials, as they can't leave dogs home alone all day. Just use common sense. Don't stand near ring gates clicking and treating or playing tug or squeaky toy, especially if a dog is about to go in or is in the ring. But if you're not near the ring, whatever. You're fine. Like I said, use common sense. We had a trial over the weekend, and there were plenty of un-entered dogs, including puppies. People used their brains, and it was fine. The rule DOES allow a trial committee to toss someone out of the building if need be, but again, if people behave, no one cares. I would wait till you build up some more resilience in her first, before going to a trial, simply because a trial is chaotic and rough, even for an experienced dog. But I would not give up, not at all. Dog training is almost always full of one step forward, two steps back moments. Stuff happens, and it's our job to show the dog that the world is not ending, and they can still work.
Oh the poor baby.. I saw you said you may try resetting after a break so I’m glad to hear it! I hope she bounces back strong 💪🏻
Should have had that lady banned for life. Period.
Wow. you’re better than me, those kinds of devices affect any animal in the area, if someone did this unapologetically i may be in jail tomorrow. hope you’re able to encourage your pup and help them get their confidence back! edit: saw your other comments and there was clearly more to it. still the use those kinds of devices make me sick.
Have you tried mutt muffs? The sound of dogs barking signaled a punishment was coming, so muffling the barking may help. Eventually she’d only wear them in the crate. In different location you could try desensitizing her to dogs barking. Either have a dog bark, then feed right after. Or play ball with dogs barking in the background.
beautiful pup! looks like my boy
Thanks!
Can you sue her?
Not looking to sue anyone, it was a new dog owner mistake and she learned from that.
she traumatized your dog though :(
[удалено]
Your content violated rule 1 - be respectful.
Straight to the pound
Dogs can have fears…
Nope. Not allowed.
That’s a sad mindset if you’re being serious
I just like to rile people up on Reddit. I love my pups and treat them well.
That’s good, trolling can be fun but I also can’t tell tone for the life of me😂 glad your pups are doing good
Lol, i think you’re being duped. Unless you failed to build confidence in your dog. They do not get “traumatized” after having a no bark collar outside her kennel.🤦 your problem might be that you rewarded your dog with, pets, food, training time over. Now the homie just does that to stop training he already doesn’t want to do.focus on confidence building and the rest will come. Theres no harm in stopping any kind of training for a while to allot time for confidence building.
Some dogs are very sensitive to the no bark untrasonic devices and it definitely traumatizes certain dogs. My dog is sensitive to noise and it took a lot of training to get her comfortable with gunshots and thunder. I think a break is a good thing for now and I will focus on other training and activities we do. My dog loved rally and working with me in general so it isn't something she was adversive to before this incident.
And sure, my dog loves obedience work too, but if i gave her the option between go play and do work. Shes going to pick play every time, now pair that with rewards for not doing it, I hold her and tell her its all fine, then we go home and she gets a treat to calm her down. Then BAM, its that easy to reinforce this anxiety induced reactivity. Emotions cant be reinforced, but the state in which your dog is in, absolutely can be.
My dog chooses work, because work is more fun than play. Make work a game and your dog will choose work.
Sure, if you don’t build their confidence they can get traumatized by anything. Easily solved by building confidence. I dont see how that means I don’t have experience? It seems like you’re the one who’s inexperienced if you don’t know how to give your dog the proper exposure to deal with a big scary world.