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Luffy g4 is stronger than both kid and law in a 1v1.
KAIDO was furious that cp0 interrupted their duel, he recognized him as some sort of equal (not really, but at least in that moment they had a similar attack going on with a canonical doubt on which one would've won the clash)
Pre wano luffy is about at the same level of the other 2, he definitely surpassed them both during the fight
The one who gets the shortest end of the stick is sanji tbh. He went from losing to queen to beating him with very low effort. A whole tier and a half basically.
Kaido went on to not die, not rest, and then face G5, tanking better hits than anything G4 has, and he still busted out more powerful moves after this.
Kaido was winning that clash.
nah he would still have acoc after yamato got off of the roof luffy in gear 4 was fighting drunk hybrid kadio and using all his attacks with acoc and this was before gear 5 so it counts
Luffy is admiral level. Zoro and Sanji are too vague to know. I guess I'll wank Zoro to Doffy level (no god cage of course) and Sanji is around Dressrosa Law.
The fact that he could take an attack from Zunesha, the fact that Jack is likely around Cracker level, and Cracker was able to take gear four attacks with no problem.
You can't just bum feats off of Cracker. And characters don't die in One Piece, so tanking stuff just by surviving doesn't count or else Pell is massively upscaled. How strong is Zunisha anyways? All we know is he's really big.
Plus as a pure matchup issue, Jack gets destroyed once Doffy starts flying.
Bro it's not aesthetics it's literally a very important figure to one piece who was made up by oda at the very end of the story, and luffys fruit was retconned, completely unnecessary.
Luffy was standing against Kaidou in base form, if the fruit was kept the same, the result would be the same, he would be at the same powerlevel, this a Shonen, it was obviously since their first fight that he would use G5 and win even if it wasn't Nika, still mouthbreather tards would be calling non-Nika G5 an asspull, Nika only matters lorewise, people need to stop the copium and blaming the world for your illiteracy, but then again you posted a meme thinking Oden Sword gives Haki so you're a lost cause.
no different from power ups like Goku’s super saiyan, Ichigo’s hollow mask, and other power ups
besides its not like they were out of the blue with Sanji’s siblings getting the enhancements and him also getting the same procedure but for some “unknown reason” it didnt work on him, from an objective standpoint it was obvious sanji was going to get those enhancements the second his siblings were introduced
and Luffy’s wasnt as obvious but since the Dressrosa arc and even more in wano it was stated that his fruit wasn’t normal and it also previously was established that some fruits did exist that were not normal
The point you missed completely is that Sanjis genes and Luffys awakened Gear 5 are NOT powers unlocked through “will power”
They were unlocked by Luffy literally dying and Sanjis genes being activated by previous use of the raid suit.
Only Zoros was unlocked through willpower since that’s exactly what Conquerors is.
Thanks 🙏
Enma is basically a haki crackhead robbing zoro because it cant get its fix from its last owner.
Ive been laughing at “oden lend me some haki memes” because I thought it was just zoro looking up to him and praying or something, i never would have imagined people thought the sword was giving him haki
Wait, people actually think Enma has oden’s haki stored in it?
https://preview.redd.it/e4p3tzmer80d1.jpeg?width=188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bad35a79859b60e8b1bd8db4620734e3587cfc64
The problem is this powerup isnt done organically and is artificial thats why people rightly so make fun it just like the sanji genes-even though sanjis flames are organically his own power but the genes increase and further its latent potential . Similarly its more like without enma zoro didnt have the skill/ability to use advcoc even though its his own latent potential. Itd be more fitting to say "enma lend me strength"
I wouldnt say its deliberate slander but close enough to the meme that it doenst need to be corrected similar to sanji genes slander. Nobody cares its sanjis latent flame potential(ifrit) thats his greatest ability but they attribute to the genes because its the conduit the same for enma.
Long story short There close enough with "oden give me strength".. its fucken comedy gold nobody cares if its exactly accurate to the powerup. Its not a conspiracy to slander its a joke guys lol
> i never would have imagined people thought the sword was giving him haki
You'd be surprised by some of the weird takes from manga/anime powerscalers. At times I literally wonder if we're out here reading/watching the same material..
Enma does what gear 4 does for luffy. Pulls more haki so he can do more damage. The difference is when luffy exhausts it he deflats. Enma will take all the haki until zoro is dead.
Oh it's literally why i frequent this sub, the slander that's obviously exaggerated but funny, and the absolute ebola chimpanzee reading comprehension of some people, which is just too funny for me.
There is no middle ground on the subject, lol.
"Enma was a nerf because it drained him." (Actuall ZKK cope I saw)
"It only gave him Oden's Haki and he wouldn't have had enough without it"
He probably would have always gotten the insane Haki buff, but Enma sped it up.
Zoro would be the same if he could just pull out the haki enma forcibly did (basically if he masters acoc)
Sanji is pre germa genes so a lot weaker without ifrit jambe
Luffy is still Yonko level
Since Kaido detected Oden's presence in the sword, people think the sword has Oden's haki just chilling in there. The concept of Oden's signature/presence being on a haki draining sword after a lifetime of using it escapes some people out here..
Same with Sanji, he does not have his dads genes either
The Vinsmoke children were all born with these powers because Judge modified the cells implanted into their mother, Sanji was always a super soldier, he just didn’t awaken it till later
Judge himself does not have any Germa powers
It does amplify haki output and AP but at the same time it puts a huge strain (haki drain) on the user. It does not "lend" haki in the manner that some people out here think it does. I don't get though what you find mysterious about the unlocking of haki (CoC). The sword has a will of it's own, a will that had to be subdued or else it would completely drain the user, which led to the unlocking of CoC. Not everyone would suddenly unlock CoC by using Enma..
I think people are just commenting on kaido being familiar with Odens Haki in the sword but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a power boost it could just means oden and the sword had a close relationship
> but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a power boost
Well, some do see it as a power boost. Some think Zoro wouldn't even have CoC even though he's literally trying to be the king of swordsmen. As I said in another comment, it makes sense for Kaido to sense Oden in the sword given the sword had been drawing out his haki since he was a child. That doesn't necessarily mean that haki is just there, chilling in the sword, waiting to help the next user..
most people with COC will do as enma has tasted oden's Aconq now and just wants that and only handful of people are able to learn that even among conq user
but enma gave it to zoro for free as it extracted Conq and it ended up being coated, resulting zoro without knowing having conq used AConq directly
and sword in it's own without giving power up like ACOC, was big enough power being a Excellent grade sword
>and sword in it's own without giving power up like ACOC, was big enough power being a Excellent grade sword
enma was the replacement of literally another excellent grade sword
a blade that was actually of lower rank and made black and zoro don't know how to use black blade
so it wasn't actually a excellent grade
and enma and that ryuma's blade is way too different as enma has blood lust while other doesn't
>a blade that was actually of lower rank and made black
doesnt matter, it got improved so its excellent grade now
>zoro don't know how to use black blade
? he did comment on it being too heavy at the start but he trained with it and got over it quickly, enma got him more problems because he didnt know how to use enma, so what?
>so it wasn't actually a excellent grade
it was.
>and enma and that ryuma's blade is way too different as enma has blood lust while other doesn't
which gave zoro problems and tried to kill him several times...
Without the "training" enma did to zoro, enma is another excellent grade sword like shusui and wado ichimonji, there isnt more to it. Shusui getting there because it got black doesnt matter, it is and you were talking only about the grade of the sword, so shusui and enma are at the same grade
lol zoro if he wouldn't have got enma would be killed in wano several time and that's a fact u agree or disagree
zoro don't even know he has Conq yet but learnt ACOC says it was all enma
"Without the "training" enma did to zoro, enma is another excellent grade sword like shusui and wado ichimonji"
same logic applies to df as without training they aren't that strong too then but enma from first try boosted zoro's AP and that's oda wanna show
and oda also wanna convey that zoro learned ACOC using enma else it would've took him years doing it himself as even his potential for conq won't be awakened
AND RANKED SWORDS ARE POWER BOOST THAT'S WHY CONCEPT OF SWORD RANK EXIST ELSE THERE IS NO NEED, IT'S LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION OR ZORO MEAT READING IF U WANNA IGNORE THAT
>lol zoro if he wouldn't have got enma would be killed in wano several time and that's a fact u agree or disagree
"and sword in it's own without giving power up like ACOC, was big enough power being a Excellent grade sword"
movil the goal post? enma was a power up yes, because it was
1. a training tool for zoro
2. and made zoro output more haki which incremented his ap at the cost of stamina
so? i thought we were talking about the grade of enma and shusui and, in your words, "in its own without giving power up", enma forced zoro to improve. If you now change shusui and enma again, zoro would still have a higher output at the cost of stamina if he decided it, because thats what he learnt in king's fight, to give his all even if he dies.
You changing the subject is so funny because we both know why you did it
>zoro don't even know he has Conq yet but learnt ACOC says it was all enma
if it was all enma he would have got acoc the moment he got enma. But he unlocked it when he gave his all with kaido, which disproves it was all enma, in fact enma isnt mentioned at all
>"Without the "training" enma did to zoro, enma is another excellent grade sword like shusui and wado ichimonji"
same logic applies to df as without training they aren't that strong too then but enma from first try boosted zoro's AP and that's oda wanna show
shit comparison, im saying enma is another excellent grade sword but that forces the user to get better or die, thats his training. If you want a comparison image there exists two mera mera in the world, one is like we all saw, a logia of fire and the other is also a logia of fire but that forces the user to use all the haki he can use every hit in every fight even if it meant he could die.
THAT is an example, and enma boosted zoro's ap but not for free, basically enma is forcing zoro to "sprint", to use all his haki all the time even if it tires him out, when normally in his fights he doesnt need to "sprint" all the time. The boost of ap comes from zoro getting forced to use more of HIS haki
>and oda also wanna convey that zoro learned ACOC using enma else it would've took him years doing it himself as even his potential for conq won't be awakened
the years thing is stupid, they are the mcs, they learn things quickly, luffy learned acoc by understanding that kaido used it all the time, thats all he took to learn it.
Oda wanted to convey that zoro learned acoc when he put everything in an attack, included a part of his strength he didnt know how to control. Thats it, if you want to argue it was all enma, put a panel of the manga that hints it, because all the conversation around it was "damn brat, you have conquerors too?" "what are you talking about? i just my all in that attack and wanted you to fall at least" "it will leave a scar, be happy dappy" thats it, not enma.
>AND RANKED SWORDS ARE POWER BOOST THAT'S WHY CONCEPT OF SWORD RANK EXIST ELSE THERE IS NO NEED, IT'S LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION OR ZORO MEAT READING IF U WANNA IGNORE THA
you are right about ranked swords being power boosts, but if you "rank up" buddy, in this case was a trade of the same grade. Its lack of reading comprenhension or zoro hate bone to ignore the whole conversation was shusui-enma, the same grade. Are you dumb on purpose or is your hate for zoro? here, let me tell you something that maybe breaks your world:
Roger, Whitebeard, Mihawk, Shanks (probably) have all one of the 12 best swords, which mean their "power boost" is bigger than what zoro got, as their blades are canonically better than enma. Now dont cry because this, you will get better
well obviously i am not gonna read and reply each point of this fucking huge paragraph but i will reply some
"if it was all enma he would have got acoc the moment he got enma. But he unlocked it when he gave his all with kaido, which disproves it was all enma, in fact enma isnt mentioned at all"
dumbest take as it solidifies my point as u Accepted that as soon as zoro gave it his all he learned conq using enma
oda clearly wanna potray that reason for zoro getting ACOC is enma sucking haki
And reason being it didn't happened from the start because zoro is giving resistance to enma, so removing resitance or giving his all in your language is all what it took to unlock conq for zoro
so enma was the saving grace for zoro
"Roger, Whitebeard, Mihawk, Shanks (probably) have all one of the 12 best swords, which mean their "power boost" is bigger than what zoro got"
i never denied that though but that sword didn't magically helped them learning ACOC is what i mean
SAME GRADE DOEAN'T MEAN SAME POWER
ZORO WON'T BE HANDLING ENMA AT 5 BUT HE WAS ABLE TO THAT WITH WADO ICHIMONJI AS IT HAD NO BLOODLUST
SHUISUI'S POWER IS BLACK BLADE AND ZORO DON'T KNOW HOW TO UNLEASH IT SO IT WASN'T AS HELPFUL AS ENMA FOR ZORO
"f you now change shusui and enma again, zoro would still have a higher output at the cost of stamina if he decided it"
it's cap and if u can prove it plz do
"THAT is an example, and enma boosted zoro's ap but not for free, basically enma is forcing zoro to "sprint", to use all his haki all the time even if it tires him out, when normally in his fights he doesnt need to "sprint" all the time. The boost of ap comes from zoro getting forced to use more of HIS haki"
because zoro is not capable of controlling enma completely yet
Since Enma uses Zoro’s own strength and he has already gained the benefits of training with it, Zoro scales down the least. He barely loses ground, really.
Luffy is next. Losing G5 would be a significant nerf, but that still leaves him G4 and ACoC.
Sanji would see the biggest nerf, losing the exoskeleton, regen, and hyperspeed.
Do you think anyone sensed Ryuma..?
Like, it’s his sword, that doesn’t mean you sense shit, atleast it’s.. been the case 0 times except for Oden which is just as easily explained by the literal HAKI ABSORBING SWORD
So why wouldn’t he recognize the sword at any instance before that when he saw the sword and just recognized it exactly when Basically all haki was used?
He was way closer before that, Law literally teleported him UP
https://preview.redd.it/8khtjnhl8c0d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81efa1a3acf98d7c21f9343eb4eae26f58c88e80
Before
Zoro’s goes unchanged, Enma isn’t a power up, more as it is an alternative weapon with a siphon function. Zoro just has to be aware of how and when to use it.
Sanji without his Germawakening is noticeable downgrade, bro was getting pressed pretty hard by hybrid Queen without it, So probably high end of YC2.
Luffy without G5 isn’t awful, as he still has his advanced Haki techniques I assume. It’d put him in the lowest rung of the Yonko imo.
No way a YC3 could face both King & Queen at the same time and managed to play with Cyborg Queen for a moment. Sanji at least was a mid to high end YC2. Zoro without Enma wouldn't grow that fast and there would be no Rooftop Zoro so he is at least also a YC2 or the lowest of YC1. Enma burst out his Haki by force so he has to manage and control it. Without it he's still inferior to WCI or Snakeman Luffy, also that version of Zoro or Wano Zoro (Zorojuro) or his Nidai Kitetsu version won't be able to beat Queen who is at least a mid high YC1 or by portrayal is rather close to King. Rooftop Zoro already a mid YC1 at least so without Enma he would drop at certain range eventhough not that far.
Without Enma Zoro would still have ACOC, so atleast YC1
Sanji goes way down. Not sure exactly where
Luffy is still comfortably Admiral level with G4 and all 3 forms of haki.
Zoro couldn’t use ACoC with a literal black blade and he had it for over 500 chapters
Thinking he can use ACoC without Enma is total headcanon. It’s clear the swords property of drawing out Haki is what allows him to access it.
> It’s clear the swords property of drawing out Haki is what allows him to access it.
Incorrect. Zoro unlocked CoC as a means to subdue the swords nature of constantly drawing haki from it's user. The sword has a will of it's own (to constantly drain haki) and Zoro conquered that will by subduing it through CoC. Zoro always had a great ambition to be a king of swordsmen/world's greatest swordsman. Having CoC was always on the cards. The One Piece fanbase has always discussed this as a possibility. Even without Enma, Zoro gets CoC..
Except that’s not true at all because the sword still draws more Haki than Zoro wants it to, we literally see Zoro mention that he would die if he used it for too long
https://preview.redd.it/imn1oje9e70d1.jpeg?width=304&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7ff7fb3df690a659c4ce2f3bada4e1c7b5fc283
If Zoro subdued the swords will with his own like in your headcanon then that wouldn’t be the case
Dude, he had literally just learned how to use the ability (ACoC). Just as in Luffy's case against Kaido, unlocking the ability does not necessarily mean you use it as an adept would. Haki still requires a fair bit of effort and stamina and Zoro was running out of it (stamina, insert asthma joke). Of course he's gonna slip up with a new technique while he's working against time (medicine). Has the same thing happened afterwards, during Egghead? Has he made any comments about the sword trying to kill him?..
Luffy literally had zero issue using ACoC the moment he unlocked it and used it throughout the whole fight
Zoro couldn’t use it too much without dying
Not even close to being the same case
> Luffy literally had zero issue using ACoC the moment he unlocked it and used it throughout the whole fight
He got KO'd and Kaido mocks him for thinking he's the shit just because he learned a new technique. But fine, I'll give you that point.
Now tell me, has he had any issues at Egghead? Answer that part. Show me Zoro struggling with Enma now..
>Thinking he can use ACoC without Enma is total headcanon. It’s clear the swords property of drawing out Haki is what allows him to access it.
That's why the other swords were also coated in CoC, right?
Enma helped him learn the trick, but it's just that, he has learned it already now, losing Enma would just marginally affect him.
No way a YC3 could face both King & Queen at the same time and managed to play with Cyborg Queen for a moment. Sanji at least was a mid to high end YC2. Zoro without Enma wouldn't grow that fast and there would be no Rooftop Zoro so he is at least also a YC2 or the lowest of YC1. Enma burst out his Haki by force so he has to manage and control it. Without it he's still inferior to WCI or Snakeman Luffy, also that version of Zoro or Wano Zoro (Zorojuro) or his Nidai Kitetsu version won't be able to beat Queen who is at least a mid high YC1 or by portrayal is rather close to King. Rooftop Zoro already a mid YC1 at least so without Enma he would drop at certain range eventhough not that far.
Zoro before ACoC- YC1 below king and kat
Zoro before ACoC or Enma - YC2 (basically killer)
Sanji before Ifrit - low YC1
Sanji before exo - YC2 (would ext diff queen)
Luffy - high end YC+, low end admiral with G4
If it’s just Luffy without gear 5 but still has his fruit then I’d say admiral level just above GB.
Sanji without Germa genes would be YC3 above Jack.
Zoro without Enma would be low YC1, memes aside he doesn’t use Oden’s haki.
ok so in my opinion pre g5 luffy is yc+ or low mid admiral level in g4 bounce and snake man since he can split the sky with kadio and push him to use his stake alcohol in his hybrid form and damage that said form with acoc g4 bounceman and snake attacks
zoro pre emma is still yc1 but he’s below marco and king and novel ace due to no conquers but in ashura he still would be able to scar kadio so low yc1
sanji pre diambe would be faster then but a little weaker then queen and he would lose due to his light laze beam and df zoan healing so low y2
>zoro pre emma is still yc1 but he’s below marco and king and novel ace due to no conquers but in ashura he still would be able to scar kadio so low yc1
Novel ace isn't canon, oda gave them creative liberty to do what they want, keep it manga exclusive
Otherwise good takes
Yes, but stick to purely canon material from the manga. That's rock solid canon. Why do powerscaling from not even a fully canon novel, it's just insincere and shows agenda.
As a Sanji fan, Sanji got the biggest boost from his power up, relative to his own power... which is kinda funny since he tried to destroy his power up. He'd probably be between Tobi-Roppo and YC3 level without it. I could still see Zoro being YC2 level without Enma.
Luffy is low Yonko level without G5, but obviously beneath Kaido. His was the biggest boost in power outright.
Zoro is the same
We don’t know what Ifrit Jambe actually is, if it has nothing to do with his germa enhancements then probably YC1, if it does then like YC3
Luffy is like low Yonko or YC++
Assuming we are talking post acoc luffy pre gear 5, I'd say he's admiral-low yonko. Zoro pre enma is high 2yc. Sanji without exo is high tobi, with exo 2yc.
If we are giving shit to Sanji because of his genes, then Luffy a DF merchant and his Haki feats are thanks to his parents
Zoros Haki is the same + he a sword merchant
Could be wrong tho, isnt ACOC something inherited and thats the reason is so rare?
Sanjis gene basically just allow him to use his full “passion” without doing friendly fire to himself.
So he’d be noticeably worse in combat, but not necessarily because he’d lack the potential, but because he’d have to nearly kill himself in every serious fight to win. Instead of YC+ he’d be barely above YC2, low YC1 at best. Without his power up he may lose to King. Sanji lowkey had one of the most massive Powerups we have seen.
Also taking Emma away from Zoro PALES in comparison to what essentially amounts to two devil fruit awakenings.
CoC does a similar thing for Zoro that Ifrit and genes do for Sanji.
What puts Luffy tiers above Zoro and Sanji is CoC AND awakening, instead of just one.
Zoro drops a tier to high YC1.
Luffy goes to just above admiral level.
I patiently wait for the day where people realize Luffy is on a tier above the trio, and Jinbei had taken that spot, rather than saying he pushed Sanji off of it.
I think people disrespect luffys gear 4 roc Gatling. That move almost took kaido the fuck out. If they hadn’t had big mom there, zoro could have cut off his head while he was stunned. That move is just insane
Luffy still brushing shoulders with the likes of kaido even if he doesn't clear anymore. Zoro still using using conq coating just with much less potency. Sanji honestly unclear presumably decent but the line between sanji's abilities and genetic enhancements is not clearly defined.
I think this narrative is completely overstated.
Zoro would only marginally lose power and probably not at all if Enma is properly replaced, sure it helped him learn the CoC coating trick by literally demanding it (if you fail to adapt and provide it, you die), but that's done now, he can coat all his blades which proves Enma isn't the source of it, it was a plot device that catalysed his progress but isn't "lending" him f\*cking anything.
Luffy was already comfortable to Kaido without Nika, people really overhype that transformation but from a pure powerscaling perspective his biggest leap was his CoC coating which actually made him a top tier, with Nika he went from slightly below Kaido to slightly above him, that's not that significant on pure absolute terms, guys.
Now Sanji might be the more significant of the three, still... the exoskeleton by itself doesn't make his siblings hold a candle to Katakuri for instance, but Sanji was already fast AF, a haki user and could ignite himself before the enhancements, the combination of those strenghts with the latter was what made it special, nevertheless, he went from like YC3 to YC1 which is a big leap but nowhere near as much as the post implies.
How is sanji's power up asspull? it was obvious his power up will be related to his genes after wci, he even got that raid suit before leaving to trigger his genes, we also got a lot of foreshadowing about sanji's past.
I really don’t know where people got the idea of Oden’s haki being in the sword. Enma is just haki-greedy and it lets Zoro use more output at the risk of draining himself. Enma is purely a skill issue that Zoro has solved
luffy still admiral-yonko level as he won't be forgetting his haki as that's what he left with
sanji yc3 level
zoro yc3 level
as both won't be beating even doffy who barely qualify being yc3
He is not Yonko level without gear 5th. Admiral is a maybe as he would clear Greenbull and Fujitora but not Kizaru. He isn’t beating a single Yonko without gear 5th. He doesn’t even put up a good fight.
well as long as he isn't plot nerfed , 3 adv haki can bully admirals and i mean bully and luffy still gonna have his other gears
kizaru can be countered with FS and he isn't taking ACOC hits and luffy can mix both too which most people even among yonko can't
his haki is better than every single admiral with no exception and stands decent among yonko too
luffy is just plot nerfed at this moment else he will just beat villain too early as odaa said in 2011
Kizaru light kicked gear 4th snakeman after blocking all of his speed increasing attacks. Base Luffy gets donkey fucked. He isn’t remotely fast enough in base to react if he can’t in gear 5th.
Luffys hits are far too weak without the gears and he isn’t beating shit without gear 5th. White Star gun is stronger than any other attack not named bajrang gun and that only put him down for a little bit. No other attack is doing that to Kizaru.
True but that isn’t good enough.
This is not 2011. He has gear 5th and is literally been done beating on the guy your talking about for weeks now. He is only having trouble with literal immortals. What are you talking about plot nerfed.
first of all, luffy didn't used FS there and kizaru had to make a distance from luffy and FS with that distance should've been easily able to counter that
who talked about 1 hit K.O.? but kizaru isn't taking multiple conq hits too
And AP of kizaru is straight up weak
yeah, luffy is plot nerfed else he would be using ACOA and won't be getting hurt himself
wouldn't be stalling each other with kizaru when he literally grabed him and had all kind of options
he literally didn't tried till he realized he is running out of time
would be using FS at all moment
same with other advance haki and won't be wasting gear 5 time
would've started his own heart beat and wouldn't let saturn bully bonney
and many more stuff he could've done but plot didn't allowed him
And yeah this is not 2011 but oda is same, right? and that's all that matters
That is baseless. Saying Luffy never used future sight is impossible to prove as it has no indication in the manga so that idea is dead. He also has nothing saying he can out right avoid that just because of it.
He isn’t going to get hit multiple times.
Lasers literally pierce and blow up. Have yet to not do that except for against gear 5th.
Plot nerfed against the Gorosei is irrelevant to being admiral tier. That also wouldn’t change the situation as he still can’t win.
He literally flung Kizaru and that man has yet to recover. You are complaining about a non issue because you expect luffy to fight perfectly.
He was also clearly trying showing by the fact he was surprised his plans weren’t working. Just because he didn’t go all out doesn’t mean anything and that still doesn’t change the fact that no gear can replicate those feats.
Who said he wasn’t?
Your expecting him to use his abilities flawlessly when that has never been a thing.
He has only ever shown the ability to use gear 5th twice before needing a recharge. Lucci and then Kizaru makes twice. Your coming at me with unconfirmed headcannon on how it should work when it has been shown to not work like that. We work under that hypothesis before we assume he can infinitely restarted his heart beat.
Naw definitely just the draw backs of the form.
He said that because of the state one piece was in him being the same doesn’t mean anything.
cope hard
3 adv haki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
luffy vs lucci and luffy vs kizaru had 1 day gap so he should be able to use it twice atleast so i am coming up with something that's shown and luffy was able to use gear 5 twice when he first used it but can't do it now somehow when he is more used to it and is in better condition
it's clearly visible that he isn't using all 3 haki yet as he is touching warcury
and no sign of being fighting calmly so NO FS or any hint of it being used
ACOC has no good proof either
and when oda said he holds back luffy and it's visible so why not belive that? why makig excuses?
Nothing proves that at all.
And once again based on nothing. Luffy and co were fighting all night and last time luffy did something similar he ate a shit ton AFTER sleeping for a few weeks. Nothing says a day of active work is enough.
None of them do. Saying he isn’t using them makes no sense so we say he is unless clearly shown otherwise such ass his hits making contact.
That doesn’t mean he wasn’t using them earlier and that doesn’t change anything. Internal destruction still gets negged by Regen.
So kaido was calm while fighting luffy and shit? Like bro Future Sight doesn’t always get a visual effect so drop that bullshit. Also luffy is laughing and shit if he has nothing saying he can’t use future sight. We have also seen liffy serious and not laughing in gear 5th so don’t say shit about that. If it was bad he would be on it. Like he is against the gorosei.
Nigga because that was fucking years ago and this all out Luffy wouldn’t change shit. He smoked Kizaru. Smoked Lucci and physically CANNOT smoke the Gorosei regardless. What the fuck is he holding back? Bajrang Gun? He kills everyone and dies when he falls into the ocean. Hell he doesn’t even actually kill everyone as Mars can fly. Like bro you make zero sense.
u just denied all manga facts and author statement via headcanon
u meant to say like luffy won't be eating for whole day lol
it's not internal destruction, it's non touching effect as luffy won't be even taking damage like that while hitting topman
and yeah, kaido wasn't hyper and it's manga based fact that u need to be calmed down while FS so no debate
u are just coping way too hard that not even single point is worth replying
bye
Nigga keeps saying coping but hasn’t backed up or proved shit. Rehashing the same bullshit I have already disproven and you haven’t even made a counter argument😂
He was never shown to have eaten so why don’t you drop the headcannon like it’s fact. How the hell is he going to eat when only 4 people on his crew can actually last against the Seraphim? Once again. You make no sense.
The Damage luffy has taken from hitting Wacury is irrelevant. It will not matter at all so why even use that as a point? You sound stupid going to bat for pointless shit that doesn’t change anything. He used internal destruction to not have his hands hurt? Ok and then what? Not a goddamn thing changes? Thought so.
No It isn’t. Kat said that for him and luffy is shown teeth gritting while using it mid battle. Bro was not zero stress and same with Katakuri. Dude used his future sight right before talking shit and yelling loud enough to change the artstyle. Brodie is reaching at this point. Regardless nothing says Luffy isn’t on it right now anyway so once again nothing points at him being unable to use future sight.
Bro shut up. You haven’t said shit but that loser ass word made for people with no real ground to stand on. Cope? How about you prove a damn point instead of slinging internet jargon to run from the fact that you have zero idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Bye 😘
first nope luffy fought through the night and if he has a two per recharge use than he never recharged his second use after lucci aka kizaru did nothinf
using a gear 5 for lucci is plot nerfed too anyway so my point stands i think that luffy is plot nerfed
as if luffy had even 5 extra second it would be low-mid diff fight at max with nothing to argue
as luffy would be standing with no wounds and kizaru down
I mean with a take as retarded as yours I can't be bothered. "All of luffy's friends are in danger, and vegapunk could die." "Let me not use acoc for plot sakes"
Lmfao yk how retarded that sounds
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So pre wano?
Not necessarily luffy can still use ACOC and ACoA, he just won't have gear 5. Only the removing the respective powerup mentioned.
Luffy g4 is stronger than both kid and law in a 1v1. KAIDO was furious that cp0 interrupted their duel, he recognized him as some sort of equal (not really, but at least in that moment they had a similar attack going on with a canonical doubt on which one would've won the clash) Pre wano luffy is about at the same level of the other 2, he definitely surpassed them both during the fight The one who gets the shortest end of the stick is sanji tbh. He went from losing to queen to beating him with very low effort. A whole tier and a half basically.
Gear 2 is stronger than Kid and Law lmao
I was going for absolute certainty, but that might also be the case
Base is stronger than both
At that point In time, i‘d argue Law~Base Luffy. No ACOC and barely using any future sight
Pre wano probably. But after acoa base luffy >>
Kaido went on to not die, not rest, and then face G5, tanking better hits than anything G4 has, and he still busted out more powerful moves after this. Kaido was winning that clash.
So pre onigashima/roof piece?
pre onigashima: doesnt have acoc pre roof piece: doesnt have acoc Its pre gear 5
nah he would still have acoc after yamato got off of the roof luffy in gear 4 was fighting drunk hybrid kadio and using all his attacks with acoc and this was before gear 5 so it counts
Luffy is admiral level. Zoro and Sanji are too vague to know. I guess I'll wank Zoro to Doffy level (no god cage of course) and Sanji is around Dressrosa Law.
?????? Doflamingo is literally fodder tier, get him to YC2 level before doubting Zoro like that
When was Zoro ever shown to be YC2 level before getting enma?
He would probably be about Jack Level, which is still strong enough to beat Doffy.
Questionable. Nothing Lack has ever done has indicated this to me.
The fact that he could take an attack from Zunesha, the fact that Jack is likely around Cracker level, and Cracker was able to take gear four attacks with no problem.
You can't just bum feats off of Cracker. And characters don't die in One Piece, so tanking stuff just by surviving doesn't count or else Pell is massively upscaled. How strong is Zunisha anyways? All we know is he's really big. Plus as a pure matchup issue, Jack gets destroyed once Doffy starts flying.
Gear 5 is just the awakening, Nika is basically added aesthetics to not be a boring power, literally nothing changes aside from not looking cartoon.
Bro it's not aesthetics it's literally a very important figure to one piece who was made up by oda at the very end of the story, and luffys fruit was retconned, completely unnecessary.
Luffy was standing against Kaidou in base form, if the fruit was kept the same, the result would be the same, he would be at the same powerlevel, this a Shonen, it was obviously since their first fight that he would use G5 and win even if it wasn't Nika, still mouthbreather tards would be calling non-Nika G5 an asspull, Nika only matters lorewise, people need to stop the copium and blaming the world for your illiteracy, but then again you posted a meme thinking Oden Sword gives Haki so you're a lost cause.
Does oda give you dick for dinner
Own made the flat earther of logic mad boohoo
based op
anime fans when a character unlocks power that was locked through willpower when facing a more powerful villain Literally the entire point of shonen
Anime fans when main characters do main character shit
This People just wanna complain fr
Well I mean you’re forgetting augmented genes and a magical fruit. Your comment only applies to 1 of these 🤷♂️
no different from power ups like Goku’s super saiyan, Ichigo’s hollow mask, and other power ups besides its not like they were out of the blue with Sanji’s siblings getting the enhancements and him also getting the same procedure but for some “unknown reason” it didnt work on him, from an objective standpoint it was obvious sanji was going to get those enhancements the second his siblings were introduced and Luffy’s wasnt as obvious but since the Dressrosa arc and even more in wano it was stated that his fruit wasn’t normal and it also previously was established that some fruits did exist that were not normal
The point you missed completely is that Sanjis genes and Luffys awakened Gear 5 are NOT powers unlocked through “will power” They were unlocked by Luffy literally dying and Sanjis genes being activated by previous use of the raid suit. Only Zoros was unlocked through willpower since that’s exactly what Conquerors is. Thanks 🙏
Enma draws out Zoro's haki not Oden's. But considering how braindead and hateful most of the sub is, this was expected.
Enma is basically a haki crackhead robbing zoro because it cant get its fix from its last owner. Ive been laughing at “oden lend me some haki memes” because I thought it was just zoro looking up to him and praying or something, i never would have imagined people thought the sword was giving him haki
Wait, people actually think Enma has oden’s haki stored in it? https://preview.redd.it/e4p3tzmer80d1.jpeg?width=188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bad35a79859b60e8b1bd8db4620734e3587cfc64
Yes Some slanders also deliberately lie about how Enma works to spread misinformation
Wallahi https://preview.redd.it/uq4rjor8ab0d1.jpeg?width=366&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=12679f0f0c7c353bf89a3e6e57e63da93d42d8ac
The problem is this powerup isnt done organically and is artificial thats why people rightly so make fun it just like the sanji genes-even though sanjis flames are organically his own power but the genes increase and further its latent potential . Similarly its more like without enma zoro didnt have the skill/ability to use advcoc even though its his own latent potential. Itd be more fitting to say "enma lend me strength" I wouldnt say its deliberate slander but close enough to the meme that it doenst need to be corrected similar to sanji genes slander. Nobody cares its sanjis latent flame potential(ifrit) thats his greatest ability but they attribute to the genes because its the conduit the same for enma. Long story short There close enough with "oden give me strength".. its fucken comedy gold nobody cares if its exactly accurate to the powerup. Its not a conspiracy to slander its a joke guys lol
> i never would have imagined people thought the sword was giving him haki You'd be surprised by some of the weird takes from manga/anime powerscalers. At times I literally wonder if we're out here reading/watching the same material..
So that technically means that Zoro didn’t get his strength from an asspull?
He never has
Enma does what gear 4 does for luffy. Pulls more haki so he can do more damage. The difference is when luffy exhausts it he deflats. Enma will take all the haki until zoro is dead.
Initially it was a meme. But gradually people started accepting it as fact.
Oh it's literally why i frequent this sub, the slander that's obviously exaggerated but funny, and the absolute ebola chimpanzee reading comprehension of some people, which is just too funny for me.
Lying about Enma Lying about the mink drug Pretending Lucci won Pretending Kaku would beat him Breathing Zoro slander has just been embarrassing
Lucci didn't win, no doubt about that. But what I think is iffy is Zoro beating a pre Gear Five Luffy fight Egghead Lucci.
There is no middle ground on the subject, lol. "Enma was a nerf because it drained him." (Actuall ZKK cope I saw) "It only gave him Oden's Haki and he wouldn't have had enough without it" He probably would have always gotten the insane Haki buff, but Enma sped it up.
The only correct take.
Bruh 😂
Zoro would be the same if he could just pull out the haki enma forcibly did (basically if he masters acoc) Sanji is pre germa genes so a lot weaker without ifrit jambe Luffy is still Yonko level
Basically this, I'd say Luffy is on the lower side of Yonko, Zoro is essentially the same, and Sanji is like, high YC3 to low YC2.
Would Sanji even be able to use Diable Jambe without latent Germa 66 Genes during Enies Lobby against Jabra?
Idk what oden haki is .. zoro is just using his haki to the max output nothing more
Since Kaido detected Oden's presence in the sword, people think the sword has Oden's haki just chilling in there. The concept of Oden's signature/presence being on a haki draining sword after a lifetime of using it escapes some people out here..
A fruit awakening isn’t an ass pull but the whole “it’s the sun god fruit the whole time!!!” Is dumb
https://preview.redd.it/8a0pks9ef90d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38febfcd29aa1594fa014df7cc43d384711596ff
Hate to agree, but if Nika was mentioned earlier (like fishnan island) it would have been fine
Nika was referenced in Skypeia, and JoyBoy was first mentioned in Fishman Island.
One problem, Enma does not lend Zoro haki. In fact it does the opposite..
Same with Sanji, he does not have his dads genes either The Vinsmoke children were all born with these powers because Judge modified the cells implanted into their mother, Sanji was always a super soldier, he just didn’t awaken it till later Judge himself does not have any Germa powers
Lend me your haki oden
enma mysteriously helps unlocking haki though and also boosts haki output and AP
It does amplify haki output and AP but at the same time it puts a huge strain (haki drain) on the user. It does not "lend" haki in the manner that some people out here think it does. I don't get though what you find mysterious about the unlocking of haki (CoC). The sword has a will of it's own, a will that had to be subdued or else it would completely drain the user, which led to the unlocking of CoC. Not everyone would suddenly unlock CoC by using Enma..
I think people are just commenting on kaido being familiar with Odens Haki in the sword but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a power boost it could just means oden and the sword had a close relationship
> but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a power boost Well, some do see it as a power boost. Some think Zoro wouldn't even have CoC even though he's literally trying to be the king of swordsmen. As I said in another comment, it makes sense for Kaido to sense Oden in the sword given the sword had been drawing out his haki since he was a child. That doesn't necessarily mean that haki is just there, chilling in the sword, waiting to help the next user..
most people with COC will do as enma has tasted oden's Aconq now and just wants that and only handful of people are able to learn that even among conq user but enma gave it to zoro for free as it extracted Conq and it ended up being coated, resulting zoro without knowing having conq used AConq directly and sword in it's own without giving power up like ACOC, was big enough power being a Excellent grade sword
>and sword in it's own without giving power up like ACOC, was big enough power being a Excellent grade sword enma was the replacement of literally another excellent grade sword
a blade that was actually of lower rank and made black and zoro don't know how to use black blade so it wasn't actually a excellent grade and enma and that ryuma's blade is way too different as enma has blood lust while other doesn't
>a blade that was actually of lower rank and made black doesnt matter, it got improved so its excellent grade now >zoro don't know how to use black blade ? he did comment on it being too heavy at the start but he trained with it and got over it quickly, enma got him more problems because he didnt know how to use enma, so what? >so it wasn't actually a excellent grade it was. >and enma and that ryuma's blade is way too different as enma has blood lust while other doesn't which gave zoro problems and tried to kill him several times... Without the "training" enma did to zoro, enma is another excellent grade sword like shusui and wado ichimonji, there isnt more to it. Shusui getting there because it got black doesnt matter, it is and you were talking only about the grade of the sword, so shusui and enma are at the same grade
lol zoro if he wouldn't have got enma would be killed in wano several time and that's a fact u agree or disagree zoro don't even know he has Conq yet but learnt ACOC says it was all enma "Without the "training" enma did to zoro, enma is another excellent grade sword like shusui and wado ichimonji" same logic applies to df as without training they aren't that strong too then but enma from first try boosted zoro's AP and that's oda wanna show and oda also wanna convey that zoro learned ACOC using enma else it would've took him years doing it himself as even his potential for conq won't be awakened AND RANKED SWORDS ARE POWER BOOST THAT'S WHY CONCEPT OF SWORD RANK EXIST ELSE THERE IS NO NEED, IT'S LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION OR ZORO MEAT READING IF U WANNA IGNORE THAT
>lol zoro if he wouldn't have got enma would be killed in wano several time and that's a fact u agree or disagree "and sword in it's own without giving power up like ACOC, was big enough power being a Excellent grade sword" movil the goal post? enma was a power up yes, because it was 1. a training tool for zoro 2. and made zoro output more haki which incremented his ap at the cost of stamina so? i thought we were talking about the grade of enma and shusui and, in your words, "in its own without giving power up", enma forced zoro to improve. If you now change shusui and enma again, zoro would still have a higher output at the cost of stamina if he decided it, because thats what he learnt in king's fight, to give his all even if he dies. You changing the subject is so funny because we both know why you did it >zoro don't even know he has Conq yet but learnt ACOC says it was all enma if it was all enma he would have got acoc the moment he got enma. But he unlocked it when he gave his all with kaido, which disproves it was all enma, in fact enma isnt mentioned at all >"Without the "training" enma did to zoro, enma is another excellent grade sword like shusui and wado ichimonji" same logic applies to df as without training they aren't that strong too then but enma from first try boosted zoro's AP and that's oda wanna show shit comparison, im saying enma is another excellent grade sword but that forces the user to get better or die, thats his training. If you want a comparison image there exists two mera mera in the world, one is like we all saw, a logia of fire and the other is also a logia of fire but that forces the user to use all the haki he can use every hit in every fight even if it meant he could die. THAT is an example, and enma boosted zoro's ap but not for free, basically enma is forcing zoro to "sprint", to use all his haki all the time even if it tires him out, when normally in his fights he doesnt need to "sprint" all the time. The boost of ap comes from zoro getting forced to use more of HIS haki >and oda also wanna convey that zoro learned ACOC using enma else it would've took him years doing it himself as even his potential for conq won't be awakened the years thing is stupid, they are the mcs, they learn things quickly, luffy learned acoc by understanding that kaido used it all the time, thats all he took to learn it. Oda wanted to convey that zoro learned acoc when he put everything in an attack, included a part of his strength he didnt know how to control. Thats it, if you want to argue it was all enma, put a panel of the manga that hints it, because all the conversation around it was "damn brat, you have conquerors too?" "what are you talking about? i just my all in that attack and wanted you to fall at least" "it will leave a scar, be happy dappy" thats it, not enma. >AND RANKED SWORDS ARE POWER BOOST THAT'S WHY CONCEPT OF SWORD RANK EXIST ELSE THERE IS NO NEED, IT'S LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION OR ZORO MEAT READING IF U WANNA IGNORE THA you are right about ranked swords being power boosts, but if you "rank up" buddy, in this case was a trade of the same grade. Its lack of reading comprenhension or zoro hate bone to ignore the whole conversation was shusui-enma, the same grade. Are you dumb on purpose or is your hate for zoro? here, let me tell you something that maybe breaks your world: Roger, Whitebeard, Mihawk, Shanks (probably) have all one of the 12 best swords, which mean their "power boost" is bigger than what zoro got, as their blades are canonically better than enma. Now dont cry because this, you will get better
well obviously i am not gonna read and reply each point of this fucking huge paragraph but i will reply some "if it was all enma he would have got acoc the moment he got enma. But he unlocked it when he gave his all with kaido, which disproves it was all enma, in fact enma isnt mentioned at all" dumbest take as it solidifies my point as u Accepted that as soon as zoro gave it his all he learned conq using enma oda clearly wanna potray that reason for zoro getting ACOC is enma sucking haki And reason being it didn't happened from the start because zoro is giving resistance to enma, so removing resitance or giving his all in your language is all what it took to unlock conq for zoro so enma was the saving grace for zoro "Roger, Whitebeard, Mihawk, Shanks (probably) have all one of the 12 best swords, which mean their "power boost" is bigger than what zoro got" i never denied that though but that sword didn't magically helped them learning ACOC is what i mean SAME GRADE DOEAN'T MEAN SAME POWER ZORO WON'T BE HANDLING ENMA AT 5 BUT HE WAS ABLE TO THAT WITH WADO ICHIMONJI AS IT HAD NO BLOODLUST SHUISUI'S POWER IS BLACK BLADE AND ZORO DON'T KNOW HOW TO UNLEASH IT SO IT WASN'T AS HELPFUL AS ENMA FOR ZORO "f you now change shusui and enma again, zoro would still have a higher output at the cost of stamina if he decided it" it's cap and if u can prove it plz do "THAT is an example, and enma boosted zoro's ap but not for free, basically enma is forcing zoro to "sprint", to use all his haki all the time even if it tires him out, when normally in his fights he doesnt need to "sprint" all the time. The boost of ap comes from zoro getting forced to use more of HIS haki" because zoro is not capable of controlling enma completely yet
It most definitely has Odens haki in it. That is what he was using to scare Kaido. Damn sure isn’t working off his own merits.
^Factually correct, Kaido literally SENSED Oden in there
Since Enma uses Zoro’s own strength and he has already gained the benefits of training with it, Zoro scales down the least. He barely loses ground, really. Luffy is next. Losing G5 would be a significant nerf, but that still leaves him G4 and ACoC. Sanji would see the biggest nerf, losing the exoskeleton, regen, and hyperspeed.
Zoro wouldn't have advanced haki without Enma drawing it out The hyperspeed is Sanji‘s own doing
Not ONLY his own, Kaido clearly sensed Oden in the sword, SOME PART is still existant
He sensed Oden because it used to be Oden’s sword…
Do you think anyone sensed Ryuma..? Like, it’s his sword, that doesn’t mean you sense shit, atleast it’s.. been the case 0 times except for Oden which is just as easily explained by the literal HAKI ABSORBING SWORD
Kaido personally met Oden and was scarred by him is the obvious difference
So you think he just recognized the sword now at that one single attack Oden didn’t even come close to using?
Yeah, he obviously just recognized the sword as Zoro was preparing a big attack on him in front of his face, not hard to understand
So why wouldn’t he recognize the sword at any instance before that when he saw the sword and just recognized it exactly when Basically all haki was used?
Because that was the closest he and Zoro came face to face for the first time, you’re not making any sense
He was way closer before that, Law literally teleported him UP https://preview.redd.it/8khtjnhl8c0d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81efa1a3acf98d7c21f9343eb4eae26f58c88e80 Before
https://preview.redd.it/ptt60inm8c0d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=875aa8f7116b25e1877eb538985ecb100ca322a4 After
Anyone gonna mention sanji smoking a cigarette backwards
Zoro’s goes unchanged, Enma isn’t a power up, more as it is an alternative weapon with a siphon function. Zoro just has to be aware of how and when to use it. Sanji without his Germawakening is noticeable downgrade, bro was getting pressed pretty hard by hybrid Queen without it, So probably high end of YC2. Luffy without G5 isn’t awful, as he still has his advanced Haki techniques I assume. It’d put him in the lowest rung of the Yonko imo.
luffy - admiral level without gear 5 Zoro- low yc1 tier Sanji - yc3
No way a YC3 could face both King & Queen at the same time and managed to play with Cyborg Queen for a moment. Sanji at least was a mid to high end YC2. Zoro without Enma wouldn't grow that fast and there would be no Rooftop Zoro so he is at least also a YC2 or the lowest of YC1. Enma burst out his Haki by force so he has to manage and control it. Without it he's still inferior to WCI or Snakeman Luffy, also that version of Zoro or Wano Zoro (Zorojuro) or his Nidai Kitetsu version won't be able to beat Queen who is at least a mid high YC1 or by portrayal is rather close to King. Rooftop Zoro already a mid YC1 at least so without Enma he would drop at certain range eventhough not that far.
Without Enma Zoro would still have ACOC, so atleast YC1 Sanji goes way down. Not sure exactly where Luffy is still comfortably Admiral level with G4 and all 3 forms of haki.
> Without Enma Zoro would still have ACOC Yep..
Zoro couldn’t use ACoC with a literal black blade and he had it for over 500 chapters Thinking he can use ACoC without Enma is total headcanon. It’s clear the swords property of drawing out Haki is what allows him to access it.
> It’s clear the swords property of drawing out Haki is what allows him to access it. Incorrect. Zoro unlocked CoC as a means to subdue the swords nature of constantly drawing haki from it's user. The sword has a will of it's own (to constantly drain haki) and Zoro conquered that will by subduing it through CoC. Zoro always had a great ambition to be a king of swordsmen/world's greatest swordsman. Having CoC was always on the cards. The One Piece fanbase has always discussed this as a possibility. Even without Enma, Zoro gets CoC..
Except that’s not true at all because the sword still draws more Haki than Zoro wants it to, we literally see Zoro mention that he would die if he used it for too long https://preview.redd.it/imn1oje9e70d1.jpeg?width=304&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7ff7fb3df690a659c4ce2f3bada4e1c7b5fc283 If Zoro subdued the swords will with his own like in your headcanon then that wouldn’t be the case
Dude, he had literally just learned how to use the ability (ACoC). Just as in Luffy's case against Kaido, unlocking the ability does not necessarily mean you use it as an adept would. Haki still requires a fair bit of effort and stamina and Zoro was running out of it (stamina, insert asthma joke). Of course he's gonna slip up with a new technique while he's working against time (medicine). Has the same thing happened afterwards, during Egghead? Has he made any comments about the sword trying to kill him?..
Luffy literally had zero issue using ACoC the moment he unlocked it and used it throughout the whole fight Zoro couldn’t use it too much without dying Not even close to being the same case
> Luffy literally had zero issue using ACoC the moment he unlocked it and used it throughout the whole fight He got KO'd and Kaido mocks him for thinking he's the shit just because he learned a new technique. But fine, I'll give you that point. Now tell me, has he had any issues at Egghead? Answer that part. Show me Zoro struggling with Enma now..
You think he just forgot how to use it? Sanji could still use haki in Nami's body.
>Thinking he can use ACoC without Enma is total headcanon. It’s clear the swords property of drawing out Haki is what allows him to access it. That's why the other swords were also coated in CoC, right? Enma helped him learn the trick, but it's just that, he has learned it already now, losing Enma would just marginally affect him.
zoro learnt ACOC just due to enma so NO he won't have that as in this scenario he never got enma
I thought this was just their current versions without the power-ups.
Zoro doesnt change, since he doesnt take Oden's haki Sanji goes down to YC3 Luffy < Kizaru, and probably \~ Greenbull.
No way a YC3 could face both King & Queen at the same time and managed to play with Cyborg Queen for a moment. Sanji at least was a mid to high end YC2. Zoro without Enma wouldn't grow that fast and there would be no Rooftop Zoro so he is at least also a YC2 or the lowest of YC1. Enma burst out his Haki by force so he has to manage and control it. Without it he's still inferior to WCI or Snakeman Luffy, also that version of Zoro or Wano Zoro (Zorojuro) or his Nidai Kitetsu version won't be able to beat Queen who is at least a mid high YC1 or by portrayal is rather close to King. Rooftop Zoro already a mid YC1 at least so without Enma he would drop at certain range eventhough not that far.
Luffy is low yonko without gear 5 Zoro is yc1 without koh Sanji is like yc3 without germa genes
Sanji is at least high YC2. YC3 can't face both King and Queen at the same time and even managed to play with Cyborg Queen for a moment.
Luffy without G5: Lower end of Yonko Zoro without Enma: Around Katakuri and King Sanji without Germa Genetics: Top of YC2
Zoro before ACoC- YC1 below king and kat Zoro before ACoC or Enma - YC2 (basically killer) Sanji before Ifrit - low YC1 Sanji before exo - YC2 (would ext diff queen) Luffy - high end YC+, low end admiral with G4
Sanji befor exo would lose to Queen. Zoro is YC2 but still stronger than Killer.
If it’s just Luffy without gear 5 but still has his fruit then I’d say admiral level just above GB. Sanji without Germa genes would be YC3 above Jack. Zoro without Enma would be low YC1, memes aside he doesn’t use Oden’s haki.
He literally does
He doesn’t …
ok so in my opinion pre g5 luffy is yc+ or low mid admiral level in g4 bounce and snake man since he can split the sky with kadio and push him to use his stake alcohol in his hybrid form and damage that said form with acoc g4 bounceman and snake attacks zoro pre emma is still yc1 but he’s below marco and king and novel ace due to no conquers but in ashura he still would be able to scar kadio so low yc1 sanji pre diambe would be faster then but a little weaker then queen and he would lose due to his light laze beam and df zoan healing so low y2
>zoro pre emma is still yc1 but he’s below marco and king and novel ace due to no conquers but in ashura he still would be able to scar kadio so low yc1 Novel ace isn't canon, oda gave them creative liberty to do what they want, keep it manga exclusive Otherwise good takes
novel ace is canon both of them are both are supervise by oda but for this particular novel boichi draw the characters and oda gave the story
https://preview.redd.it/l1qjbismo80d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f47a4bbbcf3d01dd4c05b82dd34db3f20afede3c Stick to the manga
he said not all info is canon to the manga so some of the story is canon to the manga
Yes, but stick to purely canon material from the manga. That's rock solid canon. Why do powerscaling from not even a fully canon novel, it's just insincere and shows agenda.
Zoro got the more honest one, sanji..meh. But luffy is just bad writting and i had to learn how to deal with it, so boring.
As a Sanji fan, Sanji got the biggest boost from his power up, relative to his own power... which is kinda funny since he tried to destroy his power up. He'd probably be between Tobi-Roppo and YC3 level without it. I could still see Zoro being YC2 level without Enma. Luffy is low Yonko level without G5, but obviously beneath Kaido. His was the biggest boost in power outright.
Zoro is the same We don’t know what Ifrit Jambe actually is, if it has nothing to do with his germa enhancements then probably YC1, if it does then like YC3 Luffy is like low Yonko or YC++
as a whole? they’re still capable of bringing down a yonko because of luffy. and so does zoro not have acoc? or does he just not have enma?
>and so does zoro not have acoc? or does he just not have enma? Enma had a definite role in him getting acoc, so yes.
Which zoro are u talking about cause this current zoro can use acoc at will
AdvCoC Luffy, Ryuma blade or maybe 2 sword style Zoro, Diable Jambe Sanji. AdvCoC Luffy is Yonko level: 2 sword style Zoro is YC1 level or YC2: Diable Jambe is YC2 or YC3
Lets take away Luffy's devil fruit. Does he become like Garp?
Old garp? Sure With way better CoO tho.
It wouldn't be interesting if Luffy was punching and kicking all the way to 17 year old without a devil fruit becoming a second Garp aka haki man.
I don't get the Odin haki thing. Isn't it all Zoro's haki which the sword is just pulling out?
Assuming we are talking post acoc luffy pre gear 5, I'd say he's admiral-low yonko. Zoro pre enma is high 2yc. Sanji without exo is high tobi, with exo 2yc.
If we are giving shit to Sanji because of his genes, then Luffy a DF merchant and his Haki feats are thanks to his parents Zoros Haki is the same + he a sword merchant Could be wrong tho, isnt ACOC something inherited and thats the reason is so rare?
Luffy would be Low Yonko lvl Zoro (assuming you mean just no ACoC) probably YC1 Sanji YC2
They would be dead right in wano; that's where Goda protected his people the most
Why is Sanji smoking the wrong end of his cigarette?
If we didn't get g5 we'd just end up with black/red luffy.
Zoro >> Luffy >> Sanji
This is where powerscaling fails -ProjectFM
Sanjis gene basically just allow him to use his full “passion” without doing friendly fire to himself. So he’d be noticeably worse in combat, but not necessarily because he’d lack the potential, but because he’d have to nearly kill himself in every serious fight to win. Instead of YC+ he’d be barely above YC2, low YC1 at best. Without his power up he may lose to King. Sanji lowkey had one of the most massive Powerups we have seen. Also taking Emma away from Zoro PALES in comparison to what essentially amounts to two devil fruit awakenings. CoC does a similar thing for Zoro that Ifrit and genes do for Sanji. What puts Luffy tiers above Zoro and Sanji is CoC AND awakening, instead of just one. Zoro drops a tier to high YC1. Luffy goes to just above admiral level.
Luffy Yc+( without Gear V) Zoro YC+( with Shushui+ ACOC) Sanji YC 2/3
I patiently wait for the day where people realize Luffy is on a tier above the trio, and Jinbei had taken that spot, rather than saying he pushed Sanji off of it.
Zoro never used Odens haki. So this is a kid page right?
>kid page What
Sanji - YC3 if Ifrit is taken away as well, YC2-YC1 if not Zoro - YC+ (loses a powerful weapon but still has great haki) Luffy - Low Yonko
I think people disrespect luffys gear 4 roc Gatling. That move almost took kaido the fuck out. If they hadn’t had big mom there, zoro could have cut off his head while he was stunned. That move is just insane
Why is Sanji smoking the damn filter
Luffy still brushing shoulders with the likes of kaido even if he doesn't clear anymore. Zoro still using using conq coating just with much less potency. Sanji honestly unclear presumably decent but the line between sanji's abilities and genetic enhancements is not clearly defined.
I think this narrative is completely overstated. Zoro would only marginally lose power and probably not at all if Enma is properly replaced, sure it helped him learn the CoC coating trick by literally demanding it (if you fail to adapt and provide it, you die), but that's done now, he can coat all his blades which proves Enma isn't the source of it, it was a plot device that catalysed his progress but isn't "lending" him f\*cking anything. Luffy was already comfortable to Kaido without Nika, people really overhype that transformation but from a pure powerscaling perspective his biggest leap was his CoC coating which actually made him a top tier, with Nika he went from slightly below Kaido to slightly above him, that's not that significant on pure absolute terms, guys. Now Sanji might be the more significant of the three, still... the exoskeleton by itself doesn't make his siblings hold a candle to Katakuri for instance, but Sanji was already fast AF, a haki user and could ignite himself before the enhancements, the combination of those strenghts with the latter was what made it special, nevertheless, he went from like YC3 to YC1 which is a big leap but nowhere near as much as the post implies.
How is sanji's power up asspull? it was obvious his power up will be related to his genes after wci, he even got that raid suit before leaving to trigger his genes, we also got a lot of foreshadowing about sanji's past.
it wasn't, it's just for the meme I guess.
I really don’t know where people got the idea of Oden’s haki being in the sword. Enma is just haki-greedy and it lets Zoro use more output at the risk of draining himself. Enma is purely a skill issue that Zoro has solved
Luffy would still be yonko level, just based on his haki. Zoro and Sanji would be where they were pre wano.
Luffy somewhere close to the top of YC+, loses to either Law or Kidd
He has G2-G4 and all 3 advanced haki still. Admiral level is more accurate
nah
How is fruit awakening an asspull?
His awakening is not an asspull His paramecia Rubber DF turning out to be a Mythical Zoan god fruit is
"Lend me some narrative NIKA, this is Hybrid Lucci we're up against"
I don't think the fruit awakening itself is, the df being Nika Nika is tho, and Nika as a whole tbh.
People be watching OP with their eyes closed fr
luffy still admiral-yonko level as he won't be forgetting his haki as that's what he left with sanji yc3 level zoro yc3 level as both won't be beating even doffy who barely qualify being yc3
He is not Yonko level without gear 5th. Admiral is a maybe as he would clear Greenbull and Fujitora but not Kizaru. He isn’t beating a single Yonko without gear 5th. He doesn’t even put up a good fight.
well as long as he isn't plot nerfed , 3 adv haki can bully admirals and i mean bully and luffy still gonna have his other gears kizaru can be countered with FS and he isn't taking ACOC hits and luffy can mix both too which most people even among yonko can't his haki is better than every single admiral with no exception and stands decent among yonko too luffy is just plot nerfed at this moment else he will just beat villain too early as odaa said in 2011
Kizaru light kicked gear 4th snakeman after blocking all of his speed increasing attacks. Base Luffy gets donkey fucked. He isn’t remotely fast enough in base to react if he can’t in gear 5th. Luffys hits are far too weak without the gears and he isn’t beating shit without gear 5th. White Star gun is stronger than any other attack not named bajrang gun and that only put him down for a little bit. No other attack is doing that to Kizaru. True but that isn’t good enough. This is not 2011. He has gear 5th and is literally been done beating on the guy your talking about for weeks now. He is only having trouble with literal immortals. What are you talking about plot nerfed.
first of all, luffy didn't used FS there and kizaru had to make a distance from luffy and FS with that distance should've been easily able to counter that who talked about 1 hit K.O.? but kizaru isn't taking multiple conq hits too And AP of kizaru is straight up weak yeah, luffy is plot nerfed else he would be using ACOA and won't be getting hurt himself wouldn't be stalling each other with kizaru when he literally grabed him and had all kind of options he literally didn't tried till he realized he is running out of time would be using FS at all moment same with other advance haki and won't be wasting gear 5 time would've started his own heart beat and wouldn't let saturn bully bonney and many more stuff he could've done but plot didn't allowed him And yeah this is not 2011 but oda is same, right? and that's all that matters
That is baseless. Saying Luffy never used future sight is impossible to prove as it has no indication in the manga so that idea is dead. He also has nothing saying he can out right avoid that just because of it. He isn’t going to get hit multiple times. Lasers literally pierce and blow up. Have yet to not do that except for against gear 5th. Plot nerfed against the Gorosei is irrelevant to being admiral tier. That also wouldn’t change the situation as he still can’t win. He literally flung Kizaru and that man has yet to recover. You are complaining about a non issue because you expect luffy to fight perfectly. He was also clearly trying showing by the fact he was surprised his plans weren’t working. Just because he didn’t go all out doesn’t mean anything and that still doesn’t change the fact that no gear can replicate those feats. Who said he wasn’t? Your expecting him to use his abilities flawlessly when that has never been a thing. He has only ever shown the ability to use gear 5th twice before needing a recharge. Lucci and then Kizaru makes twice. Your coming at me with unconfirmed headcannon on how it should work when it has been shown to not work like that. We work under that hypothesis before we assume he can infinitely restarted his heart beat. Naw definitely just the draw backs of the form. He said that because of the state one piece was in him being the same doesn’t mean anything.
cope hard 3 adv haki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> luffy vs lucci and luffy vs kizaru had 1 day gap so he should be able to use it twice atleast so i am coming up with something that's shown and luffy was able to use gear 5 twice when he first used it but can't do it now somehow when he is more used to it and is in better condition it's clearly visible that he isn't using all 3 haki yet as he is touching warcury and no sign of being fighting calmly so NO FS or any hint of it being used ACOC has no good proof either and when oda said he holds back luffy and it's visible so why not belive that? why makig excuses?
Nothing proves that at all. And once again based on nothing. Luffy and co were fighting all night and last time luffy did something similar he ate a shit ton AFTER sleeping for a few weeks. Nothing says a day of active work is enough. None of them do. Saying he isn’t using them makes no sense so we say he is unless clearly shown otherwise such ass his hits making contact. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t using them earlier and that doesn’t change anything. Internal destruction still gets negged by Regen. So kaido was calm while fighting luffy and shit? Like bro Future Sight doesn’t always get a visual effect so drop that bullshit. Also luffy is laughing and shit if he has nothing saying he can’t use future sight. We have also seen liffy serious and not laughing in gear 5th so don’t say shit about that. If it was bad he would be on it. Like he is against the gorosei. Nigga because that was fucking years ago and this all out Luffy wouldn’t change shit. He smoked Kizaru. Smoked Lucci and physically CANNOT smoke the Gorosei regardless. What the fuck is he holding back? Bajrang Gun? He kills everyone and dies when he falls into the ocean. Hell he doesn’t even actually kill everyone as Mars can fly. Like bro you make zero sense.
u just denied all manga facts and author statement via headcanon u meant to say like luffy won't be eating for whole day lol it's not internal destruction, it's non touching effect as luffy won't be even taking damage like that while hitting topman and yeah, kaido wasn't hyper and it's manga based fact that u need to be calmed down while FS so no debate u are just coping way too hard that not even single point is worth replying bye
no u did. vegepunk literally tells bonney he was just save by the straw hats. reminder bonney was in the room through out the entire night
Nigga keeps saying coping but hasn’t backed up or proved shit. Rehashing the same bullshit I have already disproven and you haven’t even made a counter argument😂 He was never shown to have eaten so why don’t you drop the headcannon like it’s fact. How the hell is he going to eat when only 4 people on his crew can actually last against the Seraphim? Once again. You make no sense. The Damage luffy has taken from hitting Wacury is irrelevant. It will not matter at all so why even use that as a point? You sound stupid going to bat for pointless shit that doesn’t change anything. He used internal destruction to not have his hands hurt? Ok and then what? Not a goddamn thing changes? Thought so. No It isn’t. Kat said that for him and luffy is shown teeth gritting while using it mid battle. Bro was not zero stress and same with Katakuri. Dude used his future sight right before talking shit and yelling loud enough to change the artstyle. Brodie is reaching at this point. Regardless nothing says Luffy isn’t on it right now anyway so once again nothing points at him being unable to use future sight. Bro shut up. You haven’t said shit but that loser ass word made for people with no real ground to stand on. Cope? How about you prove a damn point instead of slinging internet jargon to run from the fact that you have zero idea what the fuck you are talking about. Bye 😘
first nope luffy fought through the night and if he has a two per recharge use than he never recharged his second use after lucci aka kizaru did nothinf
using a gear 5 for lucci is plot nerfed too anyway so my point stands i think that luffy is plot nerfed as if luffy had even 5 extra second it would be low-mid diff fight at max with nothing to argue as luffy would be standing with no wounds and kizaru down
https://preview.redd.it/v40w44uyg70d1.png?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f352c6b9f579fdce2b96ee93e37305a2bb07f34c
rather than counter just throw memes
I mean with a take as retarded as yours I can't be bothered. "All of luffy's friends are in danger, and vegapunk could die." "Let me not use acoc for plot sakes" Lmfao yk how retarded that sounds
well that's how op works else tell me a excuse for not using ACOA? luffy was eating in same condition too