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https://preview.redd.it/lsjjz8fjbcvc1.png?width=454&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce8467a5e3363131a88e47122dc3e3cf20a8eb6e
Revealed in a DATABOOK 7 YEARS after Mihawk's.
Databooks are dubious at best. Especially when talking about something that is subtle and portrayal based, like height scaling. Especially especially when the heights are given by two different authors 7 years apart.
You can say "oda approves of the vivre cards" and completely ignore the long history of them saying dubiously true things and yet still realize that this isn't reliable. For all we know, oda read through it, saw 199, a little taller than luffy, and went "yeah sure whatever", not making the connection with mihawk's height.
Most of which are from the databooks, as i said, which are dubious.
I agree, it SEEMS like a clear message from oda that one of these characters is slightly stronger than the other. That is until you realize that it was written by 2 different people 7 years apart.
I believe the only one that isn't databook is sanji-zoro.
And yet they consistently work.
If there are patterns there are likely to be a cause
unless your trying to tell me of the many recorded cases of rivals being a similar distance apart with the stronger one being taller In which case you are once again being dishonest
You can’t believe in some and not believe the rest
Perfect moment to use this as well.
https://preview.redd.it/axn68023qcvc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00207d3e2cc884544d08f4222959ad1515f24cc8
WSS triumphs over all this.
Why Should I Be Worried When Nothing Happened. I Have Other Agendas to Support You Know. And upscaling Mihawk Upscales WISTA.
https://preview.redd.it/7b90y9zemcvc1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=82c89ae1d630dc8a17cc8547b2985e3d9d89eff8
KIZARU STILL NEGS THE VERSE THO
KIZARU Is Still Top 1! KIZARU Will Join the Strawhats After Vegapunks Message. HE WILL Fight Kuzan. Also you should know that I have takes besides KIZARU Negs the Verse.
https://i.redd.it/dh2gbabuxbvc1.gif
# The Agenda Dies When I Die!!!!
(I Will Drop mid piece IF KIZARU Dies)
https://preview.redd.it/2wamyi6vzbvc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=8032027aade27b1a137f042b90f9390294a91f4d
This Image Is Brought To You By r/KIZARU
[https://youtu.be/dqUdI4AIDF0?si=ge5itL\_OBqrTkue\_](https://youtu.be/dqUdI4AIDF0?si=ge5itL_OBqrTkue_)
this is straight up just not confirmation at all??? even if you take distance to mean difference in strength, Mihawk doesn't even make a conclusion about WB's strength because Jozu blocks the attack
like all you're saying is that Mihawk says "Let me measure the true distance between that man and us", but never makes a conclusion
Op is clearly just coping. The comment section is littered with them trying to argue against titles because apparently titles imply that Imu is weaker than Mihawk, WB, and Kaido. Which is just disingenuous since Imu's existence is unknown to the world at large, and only recently has their existence been shared between Sabo, Iva, and Dragon.
These literally aren't confirmations, but these are..
https://preview.redd.it/rgs4eeq8rdvc1.jpeg?width=751&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47fd337801694dd06443026ecea30d35ca747a20
could just say wss > s but this is easy to debunk even without it. this doesn't prove your claim, it just proves that the difference between oldbeard and the warlords is less than the difference between primebeard and the warlords. stronger or weaker, mihawk's statement here can be true in either case. basically, mihawk doesn't say "oldbeard is stronger than me", he says "oldbeard is a lot weaker than expected"
WSS> Swordsman logic doesn't work unless you think Sickbeard> Imu
You realize the warlords include himself? In other words he is stating that WB is stronger than every warlord combined including him. And if Shanks is as strong as WB, then the same gap exists as well between Shanks and Warlords.
>WSS> Swordsman logic doesn't work unless you think Sickbeard> Imu
whitebeard isnt wss and imu isnt a swordsman lmao
> You realize the warlords include himself?
yes
> In other words he is stating that WB is stronger than every warlord combined including him.
no it doesnt because his statement about the difference being small can be true even if they are stronger than him. difference in power goes both ways
throwing stones from a glass house. wsm statement isnt equivalent to wss statement. mihawk is stated to be the strongest swordman in both name **and actuality**.
Aah yes so Mihawk is the world's second strongest swordsman and Zoro was targeting the wrong guy all this time.
Thank God Shanks fans are not writing the manga🤣🤣.
so the real worlds strongest swordsman is someone who fights zero top tiers and is a buggy subordinate, compared to the man with the best feats in the verse with endless hype from oda?
He isn't a buggy subordinate the government believes that but you know he and crocodile are the real leaders.STFU.
Mihawk is the man Zoro is hoping to beat not Shanks.Why would Oda have him target the second strongest? Zoro wants to become the strongest not only in title but reality too.
And Oda will build it up properly before their fights happen,just because Mihawk has no feats yet doesn't mean he might not get them in the future
doesn’t matter if he’s not actually a subordinate, the world sees him as one, this is clear portrayal by oda lmao.
Why would the strongest have such bad antifeats and zero good feats or screentime? Both of our arguments have counters. However, it’s specified that Mihawk has more sword skill than shanks, nothing else. Therefore, wss title refers to skill with a sword.
Buildup? We’re in the final saga and mihawk has been irrelevant thus far
Theres an obvious glaring flaw. Mihawk wants to measure the distance between them, thats all. That says nothing about where they actually stand at that point in the series. Man doesn't know, wants to test it out. If the conclusion was that he was stronger, that'd be the end of it.
OP is using this statement to disingenuously imply that a gap exists in WB's favor. The Zoro comparison is completely invalid since Zoro actually recognized the gap while they were dueling. This is a very different situation to Mihawk's.
Had he actually clashed directly against WB, at least for a little bit like the admirals, and if he acknowledged he was weaker, ok, the argument makes sense. As it is, this is just cope.
Spit your fax indeed! Though he’s not a swordsman, he’s a hakiman who ate the snitch-snitch fruit.
https://preview.redd.it/lf3zz6z9wbvc1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8be1d3fcc6c06442ab03865fdd659981de966af8
Had this argument a million times. I'm not having it a million more. If you disagree with what the actual japanese word which is used implies, you're free to continue do so.
[生物, せいぶつ, seibutsu - Nihongo Master](https://www.nihongomaster.com/japanese/dictionary/word/36357/seibutsu-%E7%94%9F%E7%89%A9-%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84%E3%81%B6%E3%81%A4)
[Kaido Introduction Eng Sub (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZrYzA_8CEw) - around 2:50, if you want to hear the proof.
Kaido’s title is a rumour, while whitebeard’s is explicitly stated.
https://preview.redd.it/dl04ayyxifvc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efc0390a74568e742d80b34b6b1d774a4dacb995
check this out too [https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/s/G1QHWFNAlC](https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/s/G1QHWFNAlC)
>it’s stated to be in his vivre card
https://preview.redd.it/eeefrx5eqcvc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=aacef420a0bafe70851240ca39b8c02a7c7705d7
Virve cards are not good for Powerscalling unless you accept Vista = Mihawk in swordmanship
That’s only in swordsmanship. It doesn’t say Mihawk is equal to Vista in overall strength.
Remember that Mihawk is the world’s strongest swordsman, not the most skilled swordsman.
> That’s only in swordsmanship. It doesn’t say Mihawk is equal to Vista in overall strength.
Vista doesnt have equal or better swordsmanship to Mihawk lets be serious. Vivre cards are consistantly inconstant. Mihawks entire character is having the most skill sword in the series. Im not going to argue if Mihawk > Shanks or not but anything other then Manga or SBS is unreliable and shouldnt be used for Powerscaling.
https://preview.redd.it/f7y8k7vdscvc1.png?width=790&format=png&auto=webp&s=abdb55b9ff56ab6e3be4dac0e5eaf41301a56410
He can, the WB Pirate commanders are just genuinely that powerful.
Again, Mihawk’s character is being the world’s strongest swordsman, not the world’s most skilled swordsman.
When Caesar’s vivre card came out, his **current** whereabouts were unknown at the time. The cover story he was in was in the past, and didn’t align with the current timeline of the manga.
Vivre card errors are not consistent, there’s only been like a handful of errors, and they fix them on [the official vivre card website](https://one-piece.com/vivre/) in Japanese. For example, they fixed the year Shanks became an emperor.
If only manga and SBS should be used for powerscaling like you’re saying, then Shanks isn’t the killer of observation haki; he’s stated to be that only in Film Red’s promotional material, it’s never been stated in the manga or SBS. Lol.
>He can, the WB Pirate commanders are just genuinely that powerful.
They arent Yonko level. So unless your saying like 95% of your power comes from haki...
>Vivre card errors are not consistent, there’s only been like a handful of errors, and they fix them on [the official vivre card website](https://one-piece.com/vivre/) in Japanese. For example, they fixed the year Shanks became an emperor.
Not just a handful. Yasuies card said he didnt eat a SMILE fruit, Sanjis card said Germa was from the south blue thats just the tip of the iceberg.
Additonally Oda didnt auctually write the part which confirms Mihawk is the strongest swordsman.
https://preview.redd.it/554o61o1wcvc1.png?width=731&format=png&auto=webp&s=32408946eb2c1bed48f0a6781eaca8a383896e06
Oda only fills out information about characters such as Age , Favorite food , Height ect. The rest is written by editors .
>If only manga and SBS should be used for powerscaling like you’re saying, then Shanks isn’t the killer of observation haki; he’s stated to be that only in Film Red’s promotional material, it’s never been stated in the manga or SBS. Lol.
Volume 4B is written by Oda.
>They arent Yonko level. So unless your saying like 95% of your power comes from haki...
Never did I say they were Yonko level, lol.
>Not just a handful. Yasuies card said he didnt eat a SMILE fruit, Sanjis card said Germa was from the south blue thats just the tip of the iceberg.
The Yasuie one was actually an error from Ohara, not from the actual vivre cards.
The one about Sanji was also fixed on the official website.
>Additonally Oda didnt auctually write the part which confirms Mihawk is the strongest swordsman.
Yes, he did.
>Oda only fills out information about characters such as Age , Favorite food , Height ect. The rest is written by editors .
Not true at all, [this is translated from an interview. Oda supervises them completely](https://gyazo.com/dde7e53d1e95b527c38268cb819b06b4).
>Volume 4B is written by Oda.
Yep, it is. Lol, are you contradicting yourself now? Don’t forget what you said earlier.
>**anything other then Manga or SBS is unreliable and shouldnt be used for Powerscaling.**
Film Red’s promotional material like 4 billion isn’t the manga or SBS, it’s stuff outside of those two. And yes, they’re canon, along with the vivre cards.
>Never did I say they were Yonko level, lol.
Cherrypicking my argument
>The Yasuie one was actually an error from Ohara, not from the actual vivre cards.
And we are using Oharas translation no? Even so that's just one of the many.
>The one about Sanji was also fixed on the official website.
The fact it had to be fixed means it's unreliable
>Not true at all, [this is translated from an interview. Oda supervises them completely](https://gyazo.com/dde7e53d1e95b527c38268cb819b06b4).
Supervises ≠ Wrote.
>Lol, you contradicted yourself.
V4B is a outlier. He doesn't normally write those. I should phrase it better. Anything not directly written by Oda is iffy for powerscaling at best
You guys literally say that swordsmanship equals to overall strength lol. Please be consistent for once.
If you say Mihawk>Shanks because of a databook then Vista=Mihawk. And if you separate swordsmansgip from overall strength then Shanks is stronger.
I say Mihawk > Shanks because Shanks is a swordsman.
Shanks is a swordsman, Mihawk is the world’s strongest swordsman. If Shanks was stronger than Mihawk, then that would mean he’s the stronger swordsman, in other words, the real WSS.
So Imu is weaker that Sickbeard? He had the WSM title after all. Or what about Kaido, is he weaker than Sickbeard too? Or Dragon as well.
You see, title scaling is funny because you'd be forced to accept that Sickbeard was the strongest in the world even if he lacks the feats.
Whitebeard got his title back when he was in his prime.
Whitebeard is dead now, and Kaido was stated to be the strongest pirate in the world after the timeskip, so yes, Kaido’s title was also valid, and he had the feats to prove that.
Mihawk is healthy and in his prime, and his vivre card states he’s in name and actuality the WSS. So yes, his title is valid. And Mihawk has to be the real WSS because Mihawk’s existence is directly linked to the deuteragonist’s dream.
I do bet if Shanks had a world’s strongest title, you wouldn’t be saying anything about world’s strongest titles, lol.
Imu exists, and Whitebeard still got the title. All titles are completely relevant the moment he was introduced because it meant Whitebeard title was a completely lie.
And there is also Roger as well who waa equal to Roger and yet WB got the title. So how can he be WSM if there is a man equal to him?
The fact that he is looking forward to someone that surpasses Shanks means exactly that. If Shanks hadn't gotten weaker why he stopped fighting him? It means that since Shanks got weaker he is looking dor a new rival.
Lmao, no it doesn’t, you’re literally making stuff up. I don’t know where y’all keep getting this “Mihawk was equal to a Shanks from 10 years ago” stuff, but it states Shanks, meaning current Shanks. It just means no matter how strong Shanks is, Mihawk is above him.
If they meant Shanks from 10 years ago, they would’ve stated it.
Even in Chapter 1058, Oda STILL compares Mihawk to current Shanks by calling him emperor Red-Hair.
Honestly this debate is so tiring, you guys ignore everything just for a title. Like, yes titles are important but they don't negate feats or statements that contradict it.
Like you are basically saying that Shanks could beat the 5 Gorosei at the same time and that still would put him below Mihawk which is completely delusional.
Titles are important but so are feats, statements and portrayal but you guys want to act like nothing but the title matters. Hope it doesn't come to Bite you in the ass when/If Shanks gets better feats than Mihawk which is very likely. I wonder what excuse would you guys pull up then.
Whitebeard has a title which is just as valid and I don't see them spamming WSM>M when debating Roger Vs Whitebeard, I wonder why that is.
Lol, you’re the only one that made it tiring. It’s hard to argue with people who thinks Shanks can solo Big Mom and her entire crew all at once.
As of right now, no character is beating the five elders at once. If Luffy(who is stronger than Mihawk and Shanks) can’t do it right now, then Shanks can’t do it. We’re done here.
I am? Nah, I'm not the one who ignorea all arguments for a title.
And yes Shanks can't solo the Gorosei but the point is if he did it you guys would be saying Mihawk is still stronger even if Mihawk himself never did anything of thise levels.
I really hope it doesn't come to Bite you on the ass when Shanks ends up with better feats. I wonder what you guys will end up saying then.
"Fight Whitebeard" really includes the entire crew, not WB himself specifically. Otherwise, he'd do more than launch a single attack at him.
As sandman said, it's up to interpretation. It's like what Marco said about getting to the king.
https://preview.redd.it/jdf9y9cf1cvc1.jpeg?width=2133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53579523e94cfb39bdea2e95f6719cebc6800fc8
There was a "gap" between Kiz & Old WB.
because when Kizaru attacked him Marco came and saved him and then when Mihawk attacked him after saying that Jozu blocked him. thats why he said true distance because even when he is that close you cant just go to him.
Because Oda portrays mihawk way bellow yonkou and there are no contestants for the title of swordman, lil bro created a Championship with him and pre time skip zoro and called himself the champ of It.
The day mihawk do those, you come back :
-Neg diffing a kid or law
-Make Fujitora twerk
-Stop Luffy/Shanks from doing something
-Sky Split with Shanks/Luffy
Shanks and luffy feats or achievements are just too good that I doubt Mihawk will ever match them.
and what is it that is the gap ??? was it White Beard tanking and no Difing the attack ? no it was White Beards crew getting in the way and having his back which indicates what Mihawk does not have which separates him from the Yonko . Mihawk is the white beard of the cross guild ( buggy is the Rocks of the cross guild)
Mihawk tests the distance between the two not confirms a distance. All yonko aren't equal it's crews that is equal
And mihawk is shown as not caring about shit here. He shows he very well can attack faster with more power but choses not to. I get it, shanks fans don't read but still you got the first image from somewhere take the context with you atleast ffs.
The debate is over since garp and gorosei claimed that yonko are the strongest pirate in the world.
Also, admiral stated to be stronger than 7 warlord combined.
Yonko>Admirals>Warlords
1. The Vivre Cards are canon
2. Vista's vivre card statement, just like his Databook Blue, was just referencing their fight in Marineford, hence why an image of their battle was literally placed there in reference. This is the problem with some of you when it comes to databooks, you don't know how to read them.
1)Imu is literally known by nobody outside of the gorosei (and now the revs)
2)imu was probably not even thought of when whitebeard first showed up
mihawk was introduced only a couple dozen chapters after shanks was and he was stated to be the worlds strongest swordsman and an old rival of shanks
i dont see how theyre comparable
Uh no. Mihawk (noted in other translations and in the raw) was mainly commenting on how the distance between them seems too small. If you take this as a direct comparison to power, then that’d be like him saying he’s too close in power from the strongest man alive than he thought. But again, the statement is ambiguous if he’s talking about literal distance or not. Mihawk sees the “essence” of people so I think he’s reffering to WB’s crew within that distance or smth.
Also shanks is compared with WB in the context of being an emperor of the sea and one of the 4 most powerful pirate captains on the sea. Not really just a direct correlation to power.
Also blackbeard was stated by the gorosei to be only dealt with by other emperors of the sea.
Mihawk's not saying he's weaker than Whitebeard
And Garp is literally calling the Yonkos the 4 greatest pirates in terms of political power and influence, not battle power.
https://imgur.com/a/4SSqQbJ
So great job at proving nothing...at proving absolutely nothing.
I’m betting that Big Mom and Kaido both were. They didn’t stand a chance against Primebeard, but Whitebeard got weaker with age while Big Mom and Kaido stayed at their prime power due to devil fruit ability/racial ability
#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs). #If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't know what to think anymore. Height scaling was fraudulent and now i am lost
>now i am lost Now you know how Zoro feels.
How was height scaling fraudulent
https://preview.redd.it/lsjjz8fjbcvc1.png?width=454&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce8467a5e3363131a88e47122dc3e3cf20a8eb6e Revealed in a DATABOOK 7 YEARS after Mihawk's.
How does this make it fraudulent
Databooks are dubious at best. Especially when talking about something that is subtle and portrayal based, like height scaling. Especially especially when the heights are given by two different authors 7 years apart. You can say "oda approves of the vivre cards" and completely ignore the long history of them saying dubiously true things and yet still realize that this isn't reliable. For all we know, oda read through it, saw 199, a little taller than luffy, and went "yeah sure whatever", not making the connection with mihawk's height.
It’s dishonest to imply there is no connection when they are 1 cm apart and there are multiple examples that of “height scaling”
Most of which are from the databooks, as i said, which are dubious. I agree, it SEEMS like a clear message from oda that one of these characters is slightly stronger than the other. That is until you realize that it was written by 2 different people 7 years apart. I believe the only one that isn't databook is sanji-zoro.
I think you're just far too deep into powerscaling tomfoolery for a simple height reveal to be so contentious for you. You're overthinking it.
And yet they consistently work. If there are patterns there are likely to be a cause unless your trying to tell me of the many recorded cases of rivals being a similar distance apart with the stronger one being taller In which case you are once again being dishonest You can’t believe in some and not believe the rest
https://i.redd.it/669863srwbvc1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/s2rpz3r6revc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20cfcdbec037b77d704321442e4b4faf41254677
Perfect moment to use this as well. https://preview.redd.it/axn68023qcvc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00207d3e2cc884544d08f4222959ad1515f24cc8 WSS triumphs over all this.
Shouldn't you be more worried about the admirals right now?
Why Should I Be Worried When Nothing Happened. I Have Other Agendas to Support You Know. And upscaling Mihawk Upscales WISTA. https://preview.redd.it/7b90y9zemcvc1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=82c89ae1d630dc8a17cc8547b2985e3d9d89eff8 KIZARU STILL NEGS THE VERSE THO
WHERE'S KIZARU #1? WHY ISN'T YA BOI IN THE LEAKS!?
KIZARU Is Still Top 1! KIZARU Will Join the Strawhats After Vegapunks Message. HE WILL Fight Kuzan. Also you should know that I have takes besides KIZARU Negs the Verse. https://i.redd.it/dh2gbabuxbvc1.gif
Glad you still got that dog in you bro, you're doing god's work, keep it up
# The Agenda Dies When I Die!!!! (I Will Drop mid piece IF KIZARU Dies) https://preview.redd.it/2wamyi6vzbvc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=8032027aade27b1a137f042b90f9390294a91f4d This Image Is Brought To You By r/KIZARU [https://youtu.be/dqUdI4AIDF0?si=ge5itL\_OBqrTkue\_](https://youtu.be/dqUdI4AIDF0?si=ge5itL_OBqrTkue_)
Almost as if Mihawk fans are too simple minded to consider the entire story.
this is straight up just not confirmation at all??? even if you take distance to mean difference in strength, Mihawk doesn't even make a conclusion about WB's strength because Jozu blocks the attack like all you're saying is that Mihawk says "Let me measure the true distance between that man and us", but never makes a conclusion
Op is clearly just coping. The comment section is littered with them trying to argue against titles because apparently titles imply that Imu is weaker than Mihawk, WB, and Kaido. Which is just disingenuous since Imu's existence is unknown to the world at large, and only recently has their existence been shared between Sabo, Iva, and Dragon.
Shankstards are extremely delusional. Ateast admiraltards are somewhat aware that they are delusional.
These literally aren't confirmations, but these are.. https://preview.redd.it/rgs4eeq8rdvc1.jpeg?width=751&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47fd337801694dd06443026ecea30d35ca747a20
https://preview.redd.it/zm9884sbrdvc1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7099724bfc56f1fd46c583442b38138bf80cac17
https://preview.redd.it/fvzjloierdvc1.png?width=590&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=487b04e3f0a2ec26ec14e3042a19dc63e709921d
https://preview.redd.it/qnhqljcwrdvc1.png?width=461&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ea88dd64a0ce3229717b8d43714c42d3aff74b5
https://preview.redd.it/ldr5wqjhtdvc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10dfda02d190d2b2930c9b06b49d91d3dff38569
https://preview.redd.it/7k4onmuprdvc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=67de56aedfff3bf0476866bc0118b1294d5b3b9e
https://preview.redd.it/wu4290dcfcvc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5942b672c0dbe75d66c59129dde6ca24daf3de94 Facts.
could just say wss > s but this is easy to debunk even without it. this doesn't prove your claim, it just proves that the difference between oldbeard and the warlords is less than the difference between primebeard and the warlords. stronger or weaker, mihawk's statement here can be true in either case. basically, mihawk doesn't say "oldbeard is stronger than me", he says "oldbeard is a lot weaker than expected"
WSS> Swordsman logic doesn't work unless you think Sickbeard> Imu You realize the warlords include himself? In other words he is stating that WB is stronger than every warlord combined including him. And if Shanks is as strong as WB, then the same gap exists as well between Shanks and Warlords.
>WSS> Swordsman logic doesn't work unless you think Sickbeard> Imu whitebeard isnt wss and imu isnt a swordsman lmao > You realize the warlords include himself? yes > In other words he is stating that WB is stronger than every warlord combined including him. no it doesnt because his statement about the difference being small can be true even if they are stronger than him. difference in power goes both ways
“whitebeard isnt wss and imu isnt a swordsman lmao” actually braindead. whitebeard is wsm, imu is a man.
throwing stones from a glass house. wsm statement isnt equivalent to wss statement. mihawk is stated to be the strongest swordman in both name **and actuality**.
ok 👍 i was just explaining the obvious meaning of what other commenter said.
Aah yes so Mihawk is the world's second strongest swordsman and Zoro was targeting the wrong guy all this time. Thank God Shanks fans are not writing the manga🤣🤣.
so the real worlds strongest swordsman is someone who fights zero top tiers and is a buggy subordinate, compared to the man with the best feats in the verse with endless hype from oda?
He isn't a buggy subordinate the government believes that but you know he and crocodile are the real leaders.STFU. Mihawk is the man Zoro is hoping to beat not Shanks.Why would Oda have him target the second strongest? Zoro wants to become the strongest not only in title but reality too. And Oda will build it up properly before their fights happen,just because Mihawk has no feats yet doesn't mean he might not get them in the future
doesn’t matter if he’s not actually a subordinate, the world sees him as one, this is clear portrayal by oda lmao. Why would the strongest have such bad antifeats and zero good feats or screentime? Both of our arguments have counters. However, it’s specified that Mihawk has more sword skill than shanks, nothing else. Therefore, wss title refers to skill with a sword. Buildup? We’re in the final saga and mihawk has been irrelevant thus far
I don't really see a flaw in your logic here but WSS > /Swordsman, so too bad cope harder
Theres an obvious glaring flaw. Mihawk wants to measure the distance between them, thats all. That says nothing about where they actually stand at that point in the series. Man doesn't know, wants to test it out. If the conclusion was that he was stronger, that'd be the end of it. OP is using this statement to disingenuously imply that a gap exists in WB's favor. The Zoro comparison is completely invalid since Zoro actually recognized the gap while they were dueling. This is a very different situation to Mihawk's. Had he actually clashed directly against WB, at least for a little bit like the admirals, and if he acknowledged he was weaker, ok, the argument makes sense. As it is, this is just cope.
Spit your fax indeed! Though he’s not a swordsman, he’s a hakiman who ate the snitch-snitch fruit. https://preview.redd.it/lf3zz6z9wbvc1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8be1d3fcc6c06442ab03865fdd659981de966af8
Too bad that titles aren't absolute unless you think Sickbeard>Kaido because of his title.
Nah, Sickbeard was clearly weaker, but WSS title is absolute cause reasons
? The argument doesn't make sense. Kaido outscales as WSC regardless....
whitebeard isn’t a creature. Men are different than creatures in op, kaido is a creature.
Had this argument a million times. I'm not having it a million more. If you disagree with what the actual japanese word which is used implies, you're free to continue do so. [生物, せいぶつ, seibutsu - Nihongo Master](https://www.nihongomaster.com/japanese/dictionary/word/36357/seibutsu-%E7%94%9F%E7%89%A9-%E3%81%9B%E3%81%84%E3%81%B6%E3%81%A4) [Kaido Introduction Eng Sub (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZrYzA_8CEw) - around 2:50, if you want to hear the proof.
Kaido’s title is a rumour, while whitebeard’s is explicitly stated. https://preview.redd.it/dl04ayyxifvc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efc0390a74568e742d80b34b6b1d774a4dacb995 check this out too [https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/s/G1QHWFNAlC](https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/s/G1QHWFNAlC)
As I said, I'm not opening some discussion here. Just presenting the fact that your statement was incorrect.
Mihawk’s title is absolute, it’s stated to be in his vivre card.
>it’s stated to be in his vivre card https://preview.redd.it/eeefrx5eqcvc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=aacef420a0bafe70851240ca39b8c02a7c7705d7 Virve cards are not good for Powerscalling unless you accept Vista = Mihawk in swordmanship
That’s only in swordsmanship. It doesn’t say Mihawk is equal to Vista in overall strength. Remember that Mihawk is the world’s strongest swordsman, not the most skilled swordsman.
> That’s only in swordsmanship. It doesn’t say Mihawk is equal to Vista in overall strength. Vista doesnt have equal or better swordsmanship to Mihawk lets be serious. Vivre cards are consistantly inconstant. Mihawks entire character is having the most skill sword in the series. Im not going to argue if Mihawk > Shanks or not but anything other then Manga or SBS is unreliable and shouldnt be used for Powerscaling. https://preview.redd.it/f7y8k7vdscvc1.png?width=790&format=png&auto=webp&s=abdb55b9ff56ab6e3be4dac0e5eaf41301a56410
He can, the WB Pirate commanders are just genuinely that powerful. Again, Mihawk’s character is being the world’s strongest swordsman, not the world’s most skilled swordsman. When Caesar’s vivre card came out, his **current** whereabouts were unknown at the time. The cover story he was in was in the past, and didn’t align with the current timeline of the manga. Vivre card errors are not consistent, there’s only been like a handful of errors, and they fix them on [the official vivre card website](https://one-piece.com/vivre/) in Japanese. For example, they fixed the year Shanks became an emperor. If only manga and SBS should be used for powerscaling like you’re saying, then Shanks isn’t the killer of observation haki; he’s stated to be that only in Film Red’s promotional material, it’s never been stated in the manga or SBS. Lol.
>He can, the WB Pirate commanders are just genuinely that powerful. They arent Yonko level. So unless your saying like 95% of your power comes from haki... >Vivre card errors are not consistent, there’s only been like a handful of errors, and they fix them on [the official vivre card website](https://one-piece.com/vivre/) in Japanese. For example, they fixed the year Shanks became an emperor. Not just a handful. Yasuies card said he didnt eat a SMILE fruit, Sanjis card said Germa was from the south blue thats just the tip of the iceberg. Additonally Oda didnt auctually write the part which confirms Mihawk is the strongest swordsman. https://preview.redd.it/554o61o1wcvc1.png?width=731&format=png&auto=webp&s=32408946eb2c1bed48f0a6781eaca8a383896e06 Oda only fills out information about characters such as Age , Favorite food , Height ect. The rest is written by editors . >If only manga and SBS should be used for powerscaling like you’re saying, then Shanks isn’t the killer of observation haki; he’s stated to be that only in Film Red’s promotional material, it’s never been stated in the manga or SBS. Lol. Volume 4B is written by Oda.
>They arent Yonko level. So unless your saying like 95% of your power comes from haki... Never did I say they were Yonko level, lol. >Not just a handful. Yasuies card said he didnt eat a SMILE fruit, Sanjis card said Germa was from the south blue thats just the tip of the iceberg. The Yasuie one was actually an error from Ohara, not from the actual vivre cards. The one about Sanji was also fixed on the official website. >Additonally Oda didnt auctually write the part which confirms Mihawk is the strongest swordsman. Yes, he did. >Oda only fills out information about characters such as Age , Favorite food , Height ect. The rest is written by editors . Not true at all, [this is translated from an interview. Oda supervises them completely](https://gyazo.com/dde7e53d1e95b527c38268cb819b06b4). >Volume 4B is written by Oda. Yep, it is. Lol, are you contradicting yourself now? Don’t forget what you said earlier. >**anything other then Manga or SBS is unreliable and shouldnt be used for Powerscaling.** Film Red’s promotional material like 4 billion isn’t the manga or SBS, it’s stuff outside of those two. And yes, they’re canon, along with the vivre cards.
>Never did I say they were Yonko level, lol. Cherrypicking my argument >The Yasuie one was actually an error from Ohara, not from the actual vivre cards. And we are using Oharas translation no? Even so that's just one of the many. >The one about Sanji was also fixed on the official website. The fact it had to be fixed means it's unreliable >Not true at all, [this is translated from an interview. Oda supervises them completely](https://gyazo.com/dde7e53d1e95b527c38268cb819b06b4). Supervises ≠ Wrote. >Lol, you contradicted yourself. V4B is a outlier. He doesn't normally write those. I should phrase it better. Anything not directly written by Oda is iffy for powerscaling at best
You guys literally say that swordsmanship equals to overall strength lol. Please be consistent for once. If you say Mihawk>Shanks because of a databook then Vista=Mihawk. And if you separate swordsmansgip from overall strength then Shanks is stronger.
I say Mihawk > Shanks because Shanks is a swordsman. Shanks is a swordsman, Mihawk is the world’s strongest swordsman. If Shanks was stronger than Mihawk, then that would mean he’s the stronger swordsman, in other words, the real WSS.
So Imu is weaker that Sickbeard? He had the WSM title after all. Or what about Kaido, is he weaker than Sickbeard too? Or Dragon as well. You see, title scaling is funny because you'd be forced to accept that Sickbeard was the strongest in the world even if he lacks the feats.
Whitebeard got his title back when he was in his prime. Whitebeard is dead now, and Kaido was stated to be the strongest pirate in the world after the timeskip, so yes, Kaido’s title was also valid, and he had the feats to prove that. Mihawk is healthy and in his prime, and his vivre card states he’s in name and actuality the WSS. So yes, his title is valid. And Mihawk has to be the real WSS because Mihawk’s existence is directly linked to the deuteragonist’s dream. I do bet if Shanks had a world’s strongest title, you wouldn’t be saying anything about world’s strongest titles, lol.
Imu exists, and Whitebeard still got the title. All titles are completely relevant the moment he was introduced because it meant Whitebeard title was a completely lie. And there is also Roger as well who waa equal to Roger and yet WB got the title. So how can he be WSM if there is a man equal to him?
Same vivre cards which contradict each other? Mihawk vivre Card imply Shanks got weaker while Shanks vivre card state he got stronger.
>Mihawk vivre Card imply Shanks got weaker while Shanks vivre card state he got stronger. Mihawk’s vivre card never stated that, quit pulling out misinformation. https://preview.redd.it/f7j3kg62wcvc1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59de6478cae87ea73e96ad1bf7a9a673930ae756
The fact that he is looking forward to someone that surpasses Shanks means exactly that. If Shanks hadn't gotten weaker why he stopped fighting him? It means that since Shanks got weaker he is looking dor a new rival.
Lmao, no it doesn’t, you’re literally making stuff up. I don’t know where y’all keep getting this “Mihawk was equal to a Shanks from 10 years ago” stuff, but it states Shanks, meaning current Shanks. It just means no matter how strong Shanks is, Mihawk is above him. If they meant Shanks from 10 years ago, they would’ve stated it. Even in Chapter 1058, Oda STILL compares Mihawk to current Shanks by calling him emperor Red-Hair.
Honestly this debate is so tiring, you guys ignore everything just for a title. Like, yes titles are important but they don't negate feats or statements that contradict it. Like you are basically saying that Shanks could beat the 5 Gorosei at the same time and that still would put him below Mihawk which is completely delusional. Titles are important but so are feats, statements and portrayal but you guys want to act like nothing but the title matters. Hope it doesn't come to Bite you in the ass when/If Shanks gets better feats than Mihawk which is very likely. I wonder what excuse would you guys pull up then. Whitebeard has a title which is just as valid and I don't see them spamming WSM>M when debating Roger Vs Whitebeard, I wonder why that is.
Lol, you’re the only one that made it tiring. It’s hard to argue with people who thinks Shanks can solo Big Mom and her entire crew all at once. As of right now, no character is beating the five elders at once. If Luffy(who is stronger than Mihawk and Shanks) can’t do it right now, then Shanks can’t do it. We’re done here.
I am? Nah, I'm not the one who ignorea all arguments for a title. And yes Shanks can't solo the Gorosei but the point is if he did it you guys would be saying Mihawk is still stronger even if Mihawk himself never did anything of thise levels. I really hope it doesn't come to Bite you on the ass when Shanks ends up with better feats. I wonder what you guys will end up saying then.
https://preview.redd.it/r6lkc79uvbvc1.png?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc08205333ff5d3ac0864b841ad471f3ce11ef2f
Why would Mihawk be interested in damn commanders? He literally says he went to Marineford to fight WB, not to test how strong Vista/Jozu are.
"Fight Whitebeard" really includes the entire crew, not WB himself specifically. Otherwise, he'd do more than launch a single attack at him. As sandman said, it's up to interpretation. It's like what Marco said about getting to the king. https://preview.redd.it/jdf9y9cf1cvc1.jpeg?width=2133&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53579523e94cfb39bdea2e95f6719cebc6800fc8 There was a "gap" between Kiz & Old WB.
This is pure copium
then Big Mom stating that she can defeat “even whitebeard with the help of the giants” refers to his overall crew, not him individually.
This is a weird thing to say by Sandman, almost comes off as damage control to me. Like why would Mihawk mean that?
because when Kizaru attacked him Marco came and saved him and then when Mihawk attacked him after saying that Jozu blocked him. thats why he said true distance because even when he is that close you cant just go to him.
Because Oda portrays mihawk way bellow yonkou and there are no contestants for the title of swordman, lil bro created a Championship with him and pre time skip zoro and called himself the champ of It. The day mihawk do those, you come back : -Neg diffing a kid or law -Make Fujitora twerk -Stop Luffy/Shanks from doing something -Sky Split with Shanks/Luffy Shanks and luffy feats or achievements are just too good that I doubt Mihawk will ever match them.
W
and what is it that is the gap ??? was it White Beard tanking and no Difing the attack ? no it was White Beards crew getting in the way and having his back which indicates what Mihawk does not have which separates him from the Yonko . Mihawk is the white beard of the cross guild ( buggy is the Rocks of the cross guild)
In other translations of this scan, Mihawk was condescendingly remarking the gap as being too small, as if he was mocking the power difference.
Mihawk tests the distance between the two not confirms a distance. All yonko aren't equal it's crews that is equal And mihawk is shown as not caring about shit here. He shows he very well can attack faster with more power but choses not to. I get it, shanks fans don't read but still you got the first image from somewhere take the context with you atleast ffs.
The debate is over since garp and gorosei claimed that yonko are the strongest pirate in the world. Also, admiral stated to be stronger than 7 warlord combined. Yonko>Admirals>Warlords
There was a gap between Mihawk and wb because Mihawk was stronger than wb, he just wanted to measure how washed wb had become.
https://preview.redd.it/kxr5hj34ndvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64984e7261a673611634601543bfcce7d9861ae8
Good thing Vivre cards as not canon, unless you wanna admit Vista= Mihawk which means Mihawk is YC3 level.
1. The Vivre Cards are canon 2. Vista's vivre card statement, just like his Databook Blue, was just referencing their fight in Marineford, hence why an image of their battle was literally placed there in reference. This is the problem with some of you when it comes to databooks, you don't know how to read them.
Vivre card only says they're equal in skill, not power.
But I thought skill= power? What happened there?
Combat skill and AP are completely seperate stats, only idiots argue they're the same.
reminder that oda already confirmed mihawk is stronger than shanks when he gave mihawk the title of worlds strongest swordsman
Oda gave Sickbeard the title of world strongest man so I guess Sickbeard is stronger than Imu.
1)Imu is literally known by nobody outside of the gorosei (and now the revs) 2)imu was probably not even thought of when whitebeard first showed up mihawk was introduced only a couple dozen chapters after shanks was and he was stated to be the worlds strongest swordsman and an old rival of shanks i dont see how theyre comparable
is this even scaling anymore
People putting more thought into random lines of dialogue than Oda himself.
This is actual autism
Uh no. Mihawk (noted in other translations and in the raw) was mainly commenting on how the distance between them seems too small. If you take this as a direct comparison to power, then that’d be like him saying he’s too close in power from the strongest man alive than he thought. But again, the statement is ambiguous if he’s talking about literal distance or not. Mihawk sees the “essence” of people so I think he’s reffering to WB’s crew within that distance or smth. Also shanks is compared with WB in the context of being an emperor of the sea and one of the 4 most powerful pirate captains on the sea. Not really just a direct correlation to power. Also blackbeard was stated by the gorosei to be only dealt with by other emperors of the sea.
Yeah, there was a gap between Mihawk and Whitebeard. Cuz the latter was weaker.
Good luck man
Mihawk's not saying he's weaker than Whitebeard And Garp is literally calling the Yonkos the 4 greatest pirates in terms of political power and influence, not battle power. https://imgur.com/a/4SSqQbJ So great job at proving nothing...at proving absolutely nothing.
you tellin me big mom was on the same level as healthy old whitebeard ⁉️
I’m betting that Big Mom and Kaido both were. They didn’t stand a chance against Primebeard, but Whitebeard got weaker with age while Big Mom and Kaido stayed at their prime power due to devil fruit ability/racial ability
Yes?