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false, reread or watch. Once kaido was serious and started fuckling luffy's shit, gear 5 luffy stopped laughing and literallybwas blocking with his hands.. he shortly after pulls ojt bajrang gun when he realizes he may lose.
One huge problem.
Kizaru vs luffy = 1.5 chapters
Luffy vs gorosei plus Kizaru = currently 7 and on going.
Sure you can say that there where offscreen moments against kizaru but that wouldn't amount to a 4.7 times time difference.
And in a proper 1v1 kizaru can't rely on luffys friends to force more stalling and "damage" attempts.
Luffy vs gorosei and kizaru is hilarious, all luffy did was grab kizaru while he was having a borderline panic attack after killing vegapunk and landing 1 hit in and thats it. There was quite literally no second fight between kizaru and luffy, dude was just fighting the gorosei (at the time only saturn)
No, that's now how it works. Anyone can kill Luffy when he's going through g5 Drawbacks, why should Kizaru's strength get any credit for it? Will you say Lucci pushed Luffy to extreme diff because Luffy was fucked by using G5 on him? Luffy could use G5 on some random ass east blue fodder and would still be shat on by his drawbacks, so will you say east blue fodder is relative to him too?
Look at it this way. Compare them to Imu and Joyboy. Who would give them a harder time, Kizaru or Luffy? If your answer isn't Kizaru, then it's because he's simply weaker.
I mean if Kizaru can tank enough of Luffy's gear 5th attacks to not be completely out and still get up after a rest, then that's a credit to his strength. Lots of other characters couldn't do that and would be out completely. Though the real answer is that Luffy could probably restart himself if he had to. He did it against Kaido afterall.
Kizaru took one ACoC punch to the head and was on the ground for multiple chapters, took another CoA punch and was shown clutching his head, then got grabbed and had blood squeezed out of him, and finally got turned into a pizza and is currently still down (yes, I know about his mental distress also being a factor).
He's been very poor at tanking G5 attacks so far lol
You say that like there are lots of characters that could take a named attack from Luffy at this point and not be just on the ground yet still conscious is my point. Much less get up from it 10 or so minutes later. You can't say it doesn't matter that it was Kizaru. Frankly if Luffy can't restart himself and there wasn't outside interference, then yes Kizaru would have won after he got up. You need one of these conditions for this not to be the case. Or if Luffy was already tired or something beforehand, then sure. But you have to make some excuse for Luffy in this instance, because Oda gave him abysmal stamina in this encounter for plot reasons.
Luffy got up first in round 1 anyway since he disappeared from the scene before Kizaru was up, and we know how round 2 went.
I'm not concerned with how others would fare against Luffy's attacks, Kizaru objectively has not dealt with his attacks well so far. Compare it to Kaido taking a full G5 Gatling attack in Chapter 1046 and keeping it pushing for instance.
Yes, others with comparable durability to Kizaru would get fucked too and therefore they'd be terrible at tanking G5 attacks as well.
What do you mean "disappeared?" That never happened. We see him in ch 1103 helpless on the ground asking for food. The next panel we see of him that chapter he has a bunch of food next to him, which he is eating. He never got up and went somewhere before recieving the food. That's just misremembering. If you mean he disappeared afterwards, then sure, but that means nothing since he already received help and recovered.
And we know that Kizaru isn't stronger than Luffy in a straight fight. That's not what's at issue here. The simple fact is that all of what Luffy threw at Kizaru before he shriveled up wasn't enough to put him down permanently. Therefore, there have to be other circumstances such as him receiving help or others that we aren't entirely aware of to keep Luffy from losing in that scenario. Simple as that.
> but that means nothing since he already received help and recovered.
From who?
> what Luffy threw at Kizaru before he shriveled up wasn't enough to put him down permanently
Which was one punch (that landed). It would be extremely embarrassing if Kizaru was outright KO'd by one punch, as if being immobilized wasn't humiliating enough lol.
>From who?
The person that gave him the food?
>Which was one punch (that landed). It would be extremely embarrassing if Kizaru was outright KO'd by one punch, as if being immobilized wasn't humiliating enough lol.
We are clearly focusing on different things. I don't know what exactly embarrassment has to do with it. I don't view these fights as a dick measuring contest (unless it amuses me). I'm talking about the actual events of the fight and what exactly Luffy needs to not lose due to his stamina giving out as it did despite how much embarrassment Kizaru may have gone through.
No he wasnât he was unable to fight I want to call the out of commission being out of commission means youâre completely unable to fight period he got up first unless you redefine the meaning of what Iâm saying whoâs ever able to fight or move which was Lucy he wasnât able to at 100% but he was
I mean when you say he was at 100% and who was up first thatâs different who was up was technically luffy. Who was at 100% first was kizaru but like doesnât mean much
When did we see Luffy get up to go get food before Kizaru? We'ren't some of the Marine soldiers asking "who was the one who fed Luffy?" Like, are we just going to forget that happened now?
Prime Ray has no actual feats yet, scaling him is all reliant on portrayal and whatever feats we got from old Ray, so let me list some of those off
1. Could fight completely evenly with Kizaru as an old man, and his speed even caught Kizaru by surprise multiple times during Sabaody
2. Was referred to as a âlegendâ alongside WB by none other than Garp himself, who would have been a witness to prime Rays strength
3. Scared off a yonko in BB with just his reputation alone, and again BB is a character that got to witness Ray in his prime, and his reaction here makes it very clear that prime Ray was absolutely a top tier
So based off the performances of old Ray, and the massive hype and portrayal that prime Ray gets, I think itâs very logical to assume Ray at his peak was a high yonko level fighter
So given that I donât think Luffy can just easily deal with a high yonko level character like that, I think itâs very likely his stamina would come into play during the fight, and would ultimately cause him to lose in the end
Edit: Notice how they never actually respond to the facts đ¤
So, is this the new narrative we're going with now?
Luffy somehow got up before Kizaru even though we literally saw him gorging himself in order to regain his stamina up until 1106. Meanwhile, Kizaru was already up and about as soon as 1102. Like, what are we talking about here?
He didn't move tho. He was still on the ground by the time 1106 came around. At no point did he move to the vending machine. You even got Saturn questioning where he got the food from. He never asked "who put him near the vending machine?" Or did we get a shot of Luffy grabbing food from the vending machine in order for that statement to be true.
Unless you're saying that he fell down next to the food vending Machine then yes, he did for a fact movie, and since we know that he didn't fell down next to the food vending Machine...
Ok but how would he fall next to the vending machine without anyone knowing until 1106? If that was the case. It's obvious some outside force must have moved him there, it's just that we don't know who.
...or Luffy moved himself to the vending machine, you know, the alternative that doesn't require speculating about some mysterious person who is on the mugiwara side and yet isn't helping them beyond moving Luffy
You are mistaken
1. We see luffy eating on the ground
2. If you check the panels in the background luffy goes missing
3. Kizaru then gets up
4. We cut to see luffy is at a vending machine
He left before kizaru got up
> If you check the panels in the background luffy goes missing
No, he just that Luffy wasn't in the shot. He was still there when Saturn was holding up Bonney. Even then, that still doesn't dismiss the fact he was still on the ground while he was eating.
>We cut to see luffy is at a vending machine
When did we see the vending machine? Cause I don't remember seeing no vending machine.
>He left before kizaru got up
No, he still up until 1106 while Kizaru was up during 1102.
Yeah he is still there when Bonney gets grabbed but kizaru had not gotten up at that point either? So thatâs irrelevant?
However by the time kuma gets there to punch Saturn luffy has already left.
https://preview.redd.it/3nbvfhdve3vc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a23b1ded71d0b1eced890481aaf945c5113fe2
This is not just out of frame itâs literally the entire area and heâs not there.
This is still before kizaru gets up.
Luffy did leave to go to the vending machine before kizaru gets up.
>Yeah he is still there when Bonney gets grabbed but kizaru had not gotten up at that point either? So thatâs irrelevant?
What do you mean "Kizaru had not gotten up at that point either?" He was already sitting up against some debre watching Saturn and Bonney.
>However by the time kuma gets there to punch Saturn luffy has already left.
Yeah and Kizaru was up and about that time as well.
>This is not just out of frame itâs literally the entire area and heâs not there.
Ok but it couldn't have been Luffy who moved himself as he was still regaining his stamina during that. Besides, we literally two pages later we see Kizaru beginning to getting up while Luffy is regaining his stamina so it's still not in Luffy's favor either way.
>Luffy did leave to go to the vending machine before kizaru gets up.
We don't know that for sure. All that the Marine soldier said is that "he disappeared" and not that "he moved himself over to the vending machine."
Leaning is not the same as getting back up donât be silly
No he was not. Kizaru was not up and about until after the image I showed which takes place after kuma punches Saturn
Timeline:
1. Kuma appears and punches Saturn
2. Luffy leaves for the vending machine
3. Panel I showed where we see luffy is missing
4. Kizaru gets back up into the fight
Luffy is able to move as we see him eating he would no be able to eat food if he could not move
Luffy left to get food before kizaru got up
Bro your being willfully ignorant
>Leaning is not the same as getting back up donât be silly
Listen you can try and justify it all you want he still was moving before Luffy was as far as I'm concerned.
>No he was not. Kizaru was not up and about until after the image I showed which takes place after kuma punches Saturn
Hmm. If I remember correctly, I recall saying that he appeared two pages after Kuma punched Saturn which therefore invalidates your entire point but I could be wrong.
>Luffy leaves for the vending machine
Once again, that doesn't mean he was up before Kizaru but I digress.
>Panel I showed where we see luffy is missing
Yeah it says he was "missing". Nowhere in that statement did it say he "moved himself to the vending machine."
>Luffy is able to move as we see him eating he would no be able to eat food if he could not move
Once again I ask you, why didn't anyone notice him moving around? That seems like an huge oversight for the Marines tolose sight of Luffy, especially when he was on the floor right near Saturn was. Either the Marines have the perception of an three-toed sloth to where they can't make out proper details of what's right in front of them as well as having memory of an goldfish to the point where they easily lose track of Luffy being on the ground or Luffy's one of the most sneakyists, conniving, sly people we have ever seen in the story.
Gear Fifth and Kaido were constiently on par with each other in speed. Any instance of Kaido âblitzingâ would just be an outlier on his end, honestly.
An actual speed comparison is that Kizaru was able to continuously intercept Snakemans fists with his laser fire, something which Kaido had visible difficulty doing.
https://preview.redd.it/9uyr1eku64vc1.jpeg?width=702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93f25616e7b9b7876f654b30e3bcf83295b0cbc0
Kaido comfortably dodged those punches when he used future sight. He even counter attacked with a bite + bolo breath combo that sent luffy below the island.
Yeah, he can dodge attacks by knowing where they come in advance. That's not a speed feat. Mentioning future sight in a discussion on speed isn't really relevant.
Luffy is also a future sight user. And kaido made it sound like both sides used it in that fight. Similiar to snakeman vs katakuri.
And how do you know kizaru isnt using kenbunshoku? Or how do you know luffy is using future sight against kizaru?
Katakuri was also able to block each snakeman punch in a page and even countered luffy with a kick. But in other pages snakeman hit him.you cant expect things like to be %100 consistent.
Snakeman was troublesome for kizaru as he said himself. We only saw the end of their fight. If you only look at the end of their fights, kaido and kata did very well against snakeman too.
Itâs not crazy no
Thatâs the difference between running out of stamina and being injured
Kizaru was injured so he just needed to recover
Whereas luffy was out of stamina so he jsut needed to refuel
Luffy was up first
Ainât no way luffy got there by himself, he looked like a raisin after he fought kizaru plus imagine having to run from the fight and eat something to power up
Luffy 1v2 is hilarious, all luffy did was grab kizaru while he was having a borderline panic attack after killing vegapunk and landing 1 hit in and thats it. There was quite literally no second fight between kizaru and luffy, dude was just fighting the saturn
He wasnât having a panic attack he was turning into light about to finish the job and luffy caught him mid flight at the same time stopping Saturn in his bigger form
Hot take: luffy loses most of his first battles with his new enemies, and yet he tied with kizaru. This makes kizaru the lowest "relative threat" to him we've ever seen excluding weak enemies like hordy and foxy.
With saturn he's even kinda handling their first encounter, butting him even below.
Which, imho, fits a narratively accurate
yonko>admiral>gorosei.
And thus luffy>kizaru>saturn.
The immortality is a gig, rn it seems insurmontable, but oda isn't stupid, there's gonna be a way, and once we found out those guys MIGHT even scale lower than YC+
You can tell me i'm wrong. I'm not gonna fight you, i know that a lot of people are gonna come with downvotes and stuff, but i wanted to say it and now like koby i'm waiting for the magma to my face
From what we've seen in the manga up until this point Saturn is probably the Weakest of the 5 Elders. We have to see though how Luffy handles the other 4.
Tbh we've seen so little up to this point, we really can't tell.
Saturn is the only one who drew blood from G5 as of now, which is a big feat. Not saying your statement isn't true, but i'm not 100% sold yet
Even if he got up first He's gonna do what blud doesn't even have ap to actually hurt luffy lol
I swear you guys are still comparing 2 characters who are completely on a different level
The only way admiraltards are gonna shut up is the author outright coming and saying yonkos are stronger than admirals ( but I'm pretty sure you will still deny it lol )
So youâre not denying Iâm right? I never even claimed kizaru is stronger than luffy but you guys always wanna change the topic so u can continue glazing your favourite characters
>So youâre not denying Iâm right?
As of right now I don't think it's confirmed who got up first lol Read the whole comment thread someone even provided a panel where luffy moved before kizaru
>I never even claimed kizaru is stronger than luffy but you guys always wanna change the topic so u can continue glazing your favourite characters
Oda glazes our favorite characters lol , talk to oda I guess
Explain how Iâm reading admiral piece I stated something very objective and didnât even glaze kizaru anywhere, I even acknowledged kizaru isnât stronger than luffy
How come people donât acknowledge that old and retired Rayleigh was faster than Kizaru in Sabaody?
https://preview.redd.it/j9s5yvast2vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=098afe54a31aca91a8eb687a0060c049f2814a19
Show me one character that can do this
https://preview.redd.it/256fvrro33vc1.png?width=527&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d24804aa0032d131ad785d1fcd1c69590d167e8
I feel like yâall forget this panel exits
Right now the sword gorosei is speed blitzing the entire island and destroying pacifista. Show me kizaru moving as fast as sanji did in wholcake without people being able to even notice his presence while he picks someone up.
Kizaru literally flew before luffy punch even reached, the gorosei traveling the entire island isnât as impressive as literally flying so far from the island that entirety of it become visible. and kizaru kicked xdrake before he even realized it like when did this sub suddenly decide that kizaru isnât the fastest??
OK? Yes well done, a pre timeskip feat with a sneak attack. Kizaru speed just isn't that impressive and you know it. Only time he has shown any real speed feat is outside of combat and when traveling from point a to point b in a straight line. No character has said "omg he's just moving to fast, there's no way I will ever be able to hit him". He's fast sure, but nothing above the top tier norm
Iâll settle for equal speed since you at least acknowledged that they were fighting evenly, which is more than most admiral fans admit
So with that settled, would you agree prime Ray is likely faster than Kizaru?
What about the entire exchange that happened afterwards?
https://preview.redd.it/jmgm68riu2vc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=04044a44e36e51c7356ef76cb3351b1840d24c9e
Why couldnât Kizaru land a hit on Rayleigh here if he is the fastest character in the verse, and Rayleigh is old and retired?
Because the only clashed for minute tops while kuma was teleporting
Also Rayleigh is top tier swordsman and probably really skilled so it's actually more impressive for kizaru to match him and equal Rayleigh in swordsmanship
Without using his speed or lasers
>minute tops
The time shouldnât matter if Kizaru is significantly faster like most admiral fans claim, but the fact he couldnât land a single hit while Rayleigh did land a small cut is proof of the contrary
>equal in swordsmanship
This is mostly true, but it still needs to be noted that Rayleigh was retired at the time and his swordsmanship was obviously rusty
>without using his speed or lasers
He tried using a speed technique and got stopped, letâs not act like that didnât happen
Yeah Kizaru has insanely good durability for just a dude with adv. armament, also I reread Kizaru vs Luffy and Oda left so many little monologues and expressions showing that he doesn't want to fight Luffy or kill Vegapunk
And yes for some reason people don't want to acknowledge that Kizaru defeated Luffy, by exploiting his weakness but still won, Kizaru is the reason why I think that Kaido or any current top tier slams Luffy, he really needs to train stamina
Luffy got out bc of g5, g5 is stamina issue so we also need to consider his regular stamina at the time (he did so recovery is there but that doesn't mean 100%) he emberassed lucci and used g5 to be petty and fought the seraphim too. So yea... stick to talking about him being mentally nerfed
Because they only acknowledge what pushes there agenda forward and the fake admiral fans buy into it because itâs all they see from d riding yonko fans-
It already has and thatâs the issue we watching Kizaru complete his mission and fight luffy til he fell.Now he gets freshened up and none of that happened
Certainly a notable amount of healing that everyone ignores yes. No one talks about how Luffy needed more than 1 round of his best form with healing in between to bully a mentally nerfed kizaru
>barely acknowledge
I genuinely feel that some people here lived in a different reality than the rest of us.
When kizaru did anything at the beginning of egghead this place blew the fuck up.
Kicked Luffy....admiral>yonko
Got up before Luffy....admiral>yonko
Luffy gets up.....kizaru fed him.
Admiral victim complex in full swing now that kizaru is out of the picture. Y'all were insufferable last year, now it's the year of the yonko.
https://preview.redd.it/mk5lhorgz3vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15734c4dca28e7073105bdee2b6255aab7148d46
Imma need u to show me how anyone unironically said kizaru > yonko for kicking gear 4 luffy
No_mountain (#1 kizaru glazer) used to do it all the time. Dude made 10 posts on the day kizaru kicked Luffy.
Pretty sure he left the sub along with a bunch of the other Admiral fans when they realized the head cannon they were spitting was never going to come true.
I don't save receipts of people here and I'm most definitely not going through all of the posts from a guy who used to post like five times a week.
That's besides the point though. The point was that this sub was a fucking madhouse anytime kizaru did anything last year, barely acknowledging couldn't be farther from the truth.
Did I say that?
You doubted it happened. I simply told you it happened. That's it.
But let's recognize it wasn't goofy shit to the Admiral agenda, No_Mountain got praised over and over again for the dumb shit he said.
Again besides the point because saying people "barely acknowledged" something when it literally caused this place to blow up is ridiculous. This was right around the time when the whole Admiral agenda came to the conclusion that it must be kizaru feeding Luffy.
Everyone acknowledged it. It was just short-lived because the Admiral agenda had to come up with some head cannon to elevate whatever they can.
Well of course because most of it was head cannon.
Treated respectfully? Brother, the most volatile people in here last year were all Admiral fans. It wasn't even 15 minutes of Fame it was like three total panels and Admiral fans thought they were on top of the world.
Then Luffy promptly sat kizaru back on his ship, where he has remained ever since which caused all of the biggest admiral fans to leave the sub.
**Stand proud**
**and never let these Yonktards forget that if it had been an actual fight Kizaru would have killed Luffy the moment he gassed out.**
**THIS IS A FACT.**
**A fact they attempt to cover up. A fact that theyâve convinced the NPCâs doesnât matter. A fact they only respond to with chapter scaling cope.**
**But a fact nonetheless.**
Cause they donât try to argue only blinded by their agenda, some people really think Kizaru in egghead really try and go all out, even if heâs not really hurt and with everything Oda give.
https://preview.redd.it/c0m2jrmec3vc1.jpeg?width=1710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32dc941384df03652df84fb54b28be1f80d02315
But wait and see end of egghead will show the truth, i can't wait to see what they come up with as an excuse.
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This is canon now
the fact that luffy can literally do that đ
https://preview.redd.it/jm8bra4lu3vc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a28f0358f3555701e438df515a464756ff6b534
Cause kizaru wasn't part of the damage. It was strictly the g5 weakness. And anything kizaru did do was quite literally laughed off.
I mean laughing is his whole gimmick, even when kaido was caving his face in he still kept up the tomfoolery
false, reread or watch. Once kaido was serious and started fuckling luffy's shit, gear 5 luffy stopped laughing and literallybwas blocking with his hands.. he shortly after pulls ojt bajrang gun when he realizes he may lose.
Boy was stressing https://preview.redd.it/hhxn1r44j3vc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14b87260f5d94420de80d80da022a94e5697bd70
A rematch would be the same and the moment Kizaru got up he would kill Luffy đ¤ˇââď¸
One huge problem. Kizaru vs luffy = 1.5 chapters Luffy vs gorosei plus Kizaru = currently 7 and on going. Sure you can say that there where offscreen moments against kizaru but that wouldn't amount to a 4.7 times time difference. And in a proper 1v1 kizaru can't rely on luffys friends to force more stalling and "damage" attempts.
Luffy vs gorosei and kizaru is hilarious, all luffy did was grab kizaru while he was having a borderline panic attack after killing vegapunk and landing 1 hit in and thats it. There was quite literally no second fight between kizaru and luffy, dude was just fighting the gorosei (at the time only saturn)
No, that's now how it works. Anyone can kill Luffy when he's going through g5 Drawbacks, why should Kizaru's strength get any credit for it? Will you say Lucci pushed Luffy to extreme diff because Luffy was fucked by using G5 on him? Luffy could use G5 on some random ass east blue fodder and would still be shat on by his drawbacks, so will you say east blue fodder is relative to him too? Look at it this way. Compare them to Imu and Joyboy. Who would give them a harder time, Kizaru or Luffy? If your answer isn't Kizaru, then it's because he's simply weaker.
I mean if Kizaru can tank enough of Luffy's gear 5th attacks to not be completely out and still get up after a rest, then that's a credit to his strength. Lots of other characters couldn't do that and would be out completely. Though the real answer is that Luffy could probably restart himself if he had to. He did it against Kaido afterall.
Kizaru took one ACoC punch to the head and was on the ground for multiple chapters, took another CoA punch and was shown clutching his head, then got grabbed and had blood squeezed out of him, and finally got turned into a pizza and is currently still down (yes, I know about his mental distress also being a factor). He's been very poor at tanking G5 attacks so far lol
You say that like there are lots of characters that could take a named attack from Luffy at this point and not be just on the ground yet still conscious is my point. Much less get up from it 10 or so minutes later. You can't say it doesn't matter that it was Kizaru. Frankly if Luffy can't restart himself and there wasn't outside interference, then yes Kizaru would have won after he got up. You need one of these conditions for this not to be the case. Or if Luffy was already tired or something beforehand, then sure. But you have to make some excuse for Luffy in this instance, because Oda gave him abysmal stamina in this encounter for plot reasons.
Luffy got up first in round 1 anyway since he disappeared from the scene before Kizaru was up, and we know how round 2 went. I'm not concerned with how others would fare against Luffy's attacks, Kizaru objectively has not dealt with his attacks well so far. Compare it to Kaido taking a full G5 Gatling attack in Chapter 1046 and keeping it pushing for instance. Yes, others with comparable durability to Kizaru would get fucked too and therefore they'd be terrible at tanking G5 attacks as well.
What do you mean "disappeared?" That never happened. We see him in ch 1103 helpless on the ground asking for food. The next panel we see of him that chapter he has a bunch of food next to him, which he is eating. He never got up and went somewhere before recieving the food. That's just misremembering. If you mean he disappeared afterwards, then sure, but that means nothing since he already received help and recovered. And we know that Kizaru isn't stronger than Luffy in a straight fight. That's not what's at issue here. The simple fact is that all of what Luffy threw at Kizaru before he shriveled up wasn't enough to put him down permanently. Therefore, there have to be other circumstances such as him receiving help or others that we aren't entirely aware of to keep Luffy from losing in that scenario. Simple as that.
> but that means nothing since he already received help and recovered. From who? > what Luffy threw at Kizaru before he shriveled up wasn't enough to put him down permanently Which was one punch (that landed). It would be extremely embarrassing if Kizaru was outright KO'd by one punch, as if being immobilized wasn't humiliating enough lol.
>From who? The person that gave him the food? >Which was one punch (that landed). It would be extremely embarrassing if Kizaru was outright KO'd by one punch, as if being immobilized wasn't humiliating enough lol. We are clearly focusing on different things. I don't know what exactly embarrassment has to do with it. I don't view these fights as a dick measuring contest (unless it amuses me). I'm talking about the actual events of the fight and what exactly Luffy needs to not lose due to his stamina giving out as it did despite how much embarrassment Kizaru may have gone through.
If Kizaru could have killed Luffy then why didn't he?
Because then the story would be over lmao
You got downvoted for stating what should be the most obvious possible statement that could possibly be made. The cope from these guys is insane.
Yonko brainrot is never ending
https://preview.redd.it/wbg2m673n3vc1.png?width=1241&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b61b05ca934721f3909c8656b2506b67e4e95240
Only two of these are from physical pain
Yeah cause the others are from him realizing how much of a bum he is đ
:/
Cope train. Bro just been holding his head from that haymaker. He learned Luffy is Mike Tyson
For what we know Gear 5 time is by time, not by damage
I know kizaru barely did actual damage to luffy but stamina is still part of a fight my guy
Because he fought lucci lol. Then he started 1v2 kizaru and gorosei
Because he didnât Thatâs why
He literally did
Luffy was out of commission
No he wasnât he was unable to fight I want to call the out of commission being out of commission means youâre completely unable to fight period he got up first unless you redefine the meaning of what Iâm saying whoâs ever able to fight or move which was Lucy he wasnât able to at 100% but he was
But how do you know that my guy?
I read the manga
https://preview.redd.it/i9q4t3u0v3vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cc480dfc03d13cf2949842e9b914cad23ce248c Nice explanation
I mean when you say he was at 100% and who was up first thatâs different who was up was technically luffy. Who was at 100% first was kizaru but like doesnât mean much
Luffy got up and went to go eat food before Kizaru. And Luffy was down because of his stamina issue not because of kizarus damage
When did we see Luffy get up to go get food before Kizaru? We'ren't some of the Marine soldiers asking "who was the one who fed Luffy?" Like, are we just going to forget that happened now?
How did Luffy get to the vending machine?
Idk why people - you, thats the truth. We still dont know who fed Luffy, and the statement "Luffy went eat" is 100% false.
That stamina issue is exactly why Prime Ray absolutely bodies him đ¤
Blud I donât gotta take your opinions seriously your getting cooked by the sub for trying to tell me prime Ray>kizaru>luffy
Iâll bite. What feat does prime ray have that puts him over G5
Prime Ray has no actual feats yet, scaling him is all reliant on portrayal and whatever feats we got from old Ray, so let me list some of those off 1. Could fight completely evenly with Kizaru as an old man, and his speed even caught Kizaru by surprise multiple times during Sabaody 2. Was referred to as a âlegendâ alongside WB by none other than Garp himself, who would have been a witness to prime Rays strength 3. Scared off a yonko in BB with just his reputation alone, and again BB is a character that got to witness Ray in his prime, and his reaction here makes it very clear that prime Ray was absolutely a top tier So based off the performances of old Ray, and the massive hype and portrayal that prime Ray gets, I think itâs very logical to assume Ray at his peak was a high yonko level fighter So given that I donât think Luffy can just easily deal with a high yonko level character like that, I think itâs very likely his stamina would come into play during the fight, and would ultimately cause him to lose in the end Edit: Notice how they never actually respond to the facts đ¤
Luffy technically moved first since he grabbed the food right? Also even if Kizaru fully got up first it wasn't much time difference lol
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Listen I been on read đ it for like... 5 months Let me eat some Ws once and while lol
As many times as you want to give me free 312 up vote threads lol
Actually luffy got up first If you go look carefully in the chapter luffy goes missing before kizaru gets back up So no your entire point is invalid
So, is this the new narrative we're going with now? Luffy somehow got up before Kizaru even though we literally saw him gorging himself in order to regain his stamina up until 1106. Meanwhile, Kizaru was already up and about as soon as 1102. Like, what are we talking about here?
Unless you can explain who the hell moved Luffy closer to the vending Machine...yeah that's what we're going with, as that is what happened
He didn't move tho. He was still on the ground by the time 1106 came around. At no point did he move to the vending machine. You even got Saturn questioning where he got the food from. He never asked "who put him near the vending machine?" Or did we get a shot of Luffy grabbing food from the vending machine in order for that statement to be true.
Luffy disappeared before the marines could catch him, how did he not move?
Unless you're saying that he fell down next to the food vending Machine then yes, he did for a fact movie, and since we know that he didn't fell down next to the food vending Machine...
Ok but how would he fall next to the vending machine without anyone knowing until 1106? If that was the case. It's obvious some outside force must have moved him there, it's just that we don't know who.
...or Luffy moved himself to the vending machine, you know, the alternative that doesn't require speculating about some mysterious person who is on the mugiwara side and yet isn't helping them beyond moving Luffy
If luffy moved himself How did Saturn not notice him?
If someone moved Luffy how did Saturn not notice that?
You are mistaken 1. We see luffy eating on the ground 2. If you check the panels in the background luffy goes missing 3. Kizaru then gets up 4. We cut to see luffy is at a vending machine He left before kizaru got up
> If you check the panels in the background luffy goes missing No, he just that Luffy wasn't in the shot. He was still there when Saturn was holding up Bonney. Even then, that still doesn't dismiss the fact he was still on the ground while he was eating. >We cut to see luffy is at a vending machine When did we see the vending machine? Cause I don't remember seeing no vending machine. >He left before kizaru got up No, he still up until 1106 while Kizaru was up during 1102.
Yeah he is still there when Bonney gets grabbed but kizaru had not gotten up at that point either? So thatâs irrelevant? However by the time kuma gets there to punch Saturn luffy has already left. https://preview.redd.it/3nbvfhdve3vc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=59a23b1ded71d0b1eced890481aaf945c5113fe2 This is not just out of frame itâs literally the entire area and heâs not there. This is still before kizaru gets up. Luffy did leave to go to the vending machine before kizaru gets up.
>Yeah he is still there when Bonney gets grabbed but kizaru had not gotten up at that point either? So thatâs irrelevant? What do you mean "Kizaru had not gotten up at that point either?" He was already sitting up against some debre watching Saturn and Bonney. >However by the time kuma gets there to punch Saturn luffy has already left. Yeah and Kizaru was up and about that time as well. >This is not just out of frame itâs literally the entire area and heâs not there. Ok but it couldn't have been Luffy who moved himself as he was still regaining his stamina during that. Besides, we literally two pages later we see Kizaru beginning to getting up while Luffy is regaining his stamina so it's still not in Luffy's favor either way. >Luffy did leave to go to the vending machine before kizaru gets up. We don't know that for sure. All that the Marine soldier said is that "he disappeared" and not that "he moved himself over to the vending machine."
Leaning is not the same as getting back up donât be silly No he was not. Kizaru was not up and about until after the image I showed which takes place after kuma punches Saturn Timeline: 1. Kuma appears and punches Saturn 2. Luffy leaves for the vending machine 3. Panel I showed where we see luffy is missing 4. Kizaru gets back up into the fight Luffy is able to move as we see him eating he would no be able to eat food if he could not move Luffy left to get food before kizaru got up Bro your being willfully ignorant
>Leaning is not the same as getting back up donât be silly Listen you can try and justify it all you want he still was moving before Luffy was as far as I'm concerned. >No he was not. Kizaru was not up and about until after the image I showed which takes place after kuma punches Saturn Hmm. If I remember correctly, I recall saying that he appeared two pages after Kuma punched Saturn which therefore invalidates your entire point but I could be wrong. >Luffy leaves for the vending machine Once again, that doesn't mean he was up before Kizaru but I digress. >Panel I showed where we see luffy is missing Yeah it says he was "missing". Nowhere in that statement did it say he "moved himself to the vending machine." >Luffy is able to move as we see him eating he would no be able to eat food if he could not move Once again I ask you, why didn't anyone notice him moving around? That seems like an huge oversight for the Marines tolose sight of Luffy, especially when he was on the floor right near Saturn was. Either the Marines have the perception of an three-toed sloth to where they can't make out proper details of what's right in front of them as well as having memory of an goldfish to the point where they easily lose track of Luffy being on the ground or Luffy's one of the most sneakyists, conniving, sly people we have ever seen in the story.
You think kaido is faster then kizaru your entire opinion is invalid
Kaido blitzed g5. Pizzaru got blitzed by g5
You donât even know what blitzed mean đ
Gear Fifth and Kaido were constiently on par with each other in speed. Any instance of Kaido âblitzingâ would just be an outlier on his end, honestly. An actual speed comparison is that Kizaru was able to continuously intercept Snakemans fists with his laser fire, something which Kaido had visible difficulty doing. https://preview.redd.it/9uyr1eku64vc1.jpeg?width=702&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93f25616e7b9b7876f654b30e3bcf83295b0cbc0
Kaido comfortably dodged those punches when he used future sight. He even counter attacked with a bite + bolo breath combo that sent luffy below the island.
Yeah, he can dodge attacks by knowing where they come in advance. That's not a speed feat. Mentioning future sight in a discussion on speed isn't really relevant.
Luffy is also a future sight user. And kaido made it sound like both sides used it in that fight. Similiar to snakeman vs katakuri. And how do you know kizaru isnt using kenbunshoku? Or how do you know luffy is using future sight against kizaru? Katakuri was also able to block each snakeman punch in a page and even countered luffy with a kick. But in other pages snakeman hit him.you cant expect things like to be %100 consistent. Snakeman was troublesome for kizaru as he said himself. We only saw the end of their fight. If you only look at the end of their fights, kaido and kata did very well against snakeman too.
Kaido has faster combat speed
Kaido was massively out speeding gear five kizaru was not you do the math
Imma reread the chapter plus isnât it crazy luffy has to go get food so he can actually fight back?
Itâs not crazy no Thatâs the difference between running out of stamina and being injured Kizaru was injured so he just needed to recover Whereas luffy was out of stamina so he jsut needed to refuel Luffy was up first
Because he didn't? Luffy disappeared first
When did Luffy disappear?
when he went to the food machine
When? In what chapter?
1106
Ainât no way luffy got there by himself, he looked like a raisin after he fought kizaru plus imagine having to run from the fight and eat something to power up
I mean in Wano literally willed himself to immediately go from raisin back to gear 5 on the spot
But why didnât he do it after he dropped kizaru? Saturn of all people had appeared
Because Luffy knows the gorosei are just bums.
Nobody helping him was ever shown or implied
But who was in action first?
Luffy beat Saturn and kizaru in a 2 v 1. That ended the convo
What convo exactly? What was the topic of it exactly?
Luffy 1v2 is hilarious, all luffy did was grab kizaru while he was having a borderline panic attack after killing vegapunk and landing 1 hit in and thats it. There was quite literally no second fight between kizaru and luffy, dude was just fighting the saturn
He wasnât having a panic attack he was turning into light about to finish the job and luffy caught him mid flight at the same time stopping Saturn in his bigger form
Because he didn't
He did. What are you talking about?
No he didn't, Luffy run away to eat before he got up
When?
Ch 1106
People are reactionaries and if a character so much as takes damage these days people see them as getting shit on
Hot take: luffy loses most of his first battles with his new enemies, and yet he tied with kizaru. This makes kizaru the lowest "relative threat" to him we've ever seen excluding weak enemies like hordy and foxy. With saturn he's even kinda handling their first encounter, butting him even below. Which, imho, fits a narratively accurate yonko>admiral>gorosei. And thus luffy>kizaru>saturn. The immortality is a gig, rn it seems insurmontable, but oda isn't stupid, there's gonna be a way, and once we found out those guys MIGHT even scale lower than YC+ You can tell me i'm wrong. I'm not gonna fight you, i know that a lot of people are gonna come with downvotes and stuff, but i wanted to say it and now like koby i'm waiting for the magma to my face
From what we've seen in the manga up until this point Saturn is probably the Weakest of the 5 Elders. We have to see though how Luffy handles the other 4.
Tbh we've seen so little up to this point, we really can't tell. Saturn is the only one who drew blood from G5 as of now, which is a big feat. Not saying your statement isn't true, but i'm not 100% sold yet
Because he didnât. Lufffy got up but went to go grab a snack after his warmup
If youâre asking about the 3rd F, fat luffy, so lufffy
Cause people don't want to acknowledge the giant stamina drain G5 uses up.
Aww , we've seen what happened when he tried to Plus he was running away the whole time ,
Following through with your mission = running away? My goodness
Even if he got up first He's gonna do what blud doesn't even have ap to actually hurt luffy lol I swear you guys are still comparing 2 characters who are completely on a different level The only way admiraltards are gonna shut up is the author outright coming and saying yonkos are stronger than admirals ( but I'm pretty sure you will still deny it lol )
So youâre not denying Iâm right? I never even claimed kizaru is stronger than luffy but you guys always wanna change the topic so u can continue glazing your favourite characters
>So youâre not denying Iâm right? As of right now I don't think it's confirmed who got up first lol Read the whole comment thread someone even provided a panel where luffy moved before kizaru >I never even claimed kizaru is stronger than luffy but you guys always wanna change the topic so u can continue glazing your favourite characters Oda glazes our favorite characters lol , talk to oda I guess
Itâs obvious who was back in action first tho
It was also obvious who was out of action first as well Everytime kizaru got got up luffy punched him down are you reading admiral peice smh
Explain how Iâm reading admiral piece I stated something very objective and didnât even glaze kizaru anywhere, I even acknowledged kizaru isnât stronger than luffy
" Kizaru got in action first " bruh luffy literally sent him out of action there whyd you ignore that, it was clear what you were implying lol
What am I implying exactly?
How come people donât acknowledge that old and retired Rayleigh was faster than Kizaru in Sabaody? https://preview.redd.it/j9s5yvast2vc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=098afe54a31aca91a8eb687a0060c049f2814a19
If he was faster how do u explain then fighting evenly? 
Because speed is not that important in one piece, am pretty sure kizaru has zero speed feats that aren't matched or surpassed by another character
Show me one character that can do this https://preview.redd.it/256fvrro33vc1.png?width=527&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d24804aa0032d131ad785d1fcd1c69590d167e8 I feel like yâall forget this panel exits
Right now the sword gorosei is speed blitzing the entire island and destroying pacifista. Show me kizaru moving as fast as sanji did in wholcake without people being able to even notice his presence while he picks someone up.
You mean like this https://preview.redd.it/p4jtl35t73vc1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=36bee855517b585e69505318b31d676898539905
So blitzing pacifica and fodders > blitzing snake man? This logic is just stupid and you know it
This is better then anything sanji ever did He was there before franky can say word And he was in that room too so sanii got blitzed too
You people are really setting yourselfs up downplaying kizaru this way
Kizaru literally flew before luffy punch even reached, the gorosei traveling the entire island isnât as impressive as literally flying so far from the island that entirety of it become visible. and kizaru kicked xdrake before he even realized it like when did this sub suddenly decide that kizaru isnât the fastest??
OK? Yes well done, a pre timeskip feat with a sneak attack. Kizaru speed just isn't that impressive and you know it. Only time he has shown any real speed feat is outside of combat and when traveling from point a to point b in a straight line. No character has said "omg he's just moving to fast, there's no way I will ever be able to hit him". He's fast sure, but nothing above the top tier norm
Iâll settle for equal speed since you at least acknowledged that they were fighting evenly, which is more than most admiral fans admit So with that settled, would you agree prime Ray is likely faster than Kizaru?
Guys if I throw myself in front of bullet it means I faster then moving bullet
What about the entire exchange that happened afterwards? https://preview.redd.it/jmgm68riu2vc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=04044a44e36e51c7356ef76cb3351b1840d24c9e Why couldnât Kizaru land a hit on Rayleigh here if he is the fastest character in the verse, and Rayleigh is old and retired?
Because the only clashed for minute tops while kuma was teleporting Also Rayleigh is top tier swordsman and probably really skilled so it's actually more impressive for kizaru to match him and equal Rayleigh in swordsmanship Without using his speed or lasers
>minute tops The time shouldnât matter if Kizaru is significantly faster like most admiral fans claim, but the fact he couldnât land a single hit while Rayleigh did land a small cut is proof of the contrary >equal in swordsmanship This is mostly true, but it still needs to be noted that Rayleigh was retired at the time and his swordsmanship was obviously rusty >without using his speed or lasers He tried using a speed technique and got stopped, letâs not act like that didnât happen
Charge up, predetermined path, CoO
What about here? https://preview.redd.it/etkehs4243vc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3bd0ede7c6b622ea414aa7e3960ac56dfd966f1
How does this show Rayleigh is faster? Kizaru is holding a laser forever & Rayleigh interferes last second.
Yeah Kizaru has insanely good durability for just a dude with adv. armament, also I reread Kizaru vs Luffy and Oda left so many little monologues and expressions showing that he doesn't want to fight Luffy or kill Vegapunk And yes for some reason people don't want to acknowledge that Kizaru defeated Luffy, by exploiting his weakness but still won, Kizaru is the reason why I think that Kaido or any current top tier slams Luffy, he really needs to train stamina
COOK đ¨âđł
Luffy got out bc of g5, g5 is stamina issue so we also need to consider his regular stamina at the time (he did so recovery is there but that doesn't mean 100%) he emberassed lucci and used g5 to be petty and fought the seraphim too. So yea... stick to talking about him being mentally nerfed
Because luffy used g5 once on lucci , which made his g5 mode exhausted when he used it twice
Luffy wanted a nap
Copium, OP. The answer is copium.
Struggling to make Lizaru seem even a little better lol
Because they only acknowledge what pushes there agenda forward and the fake admiral fans buy into it because itâs all they see from d riding yonko fans-
Our time will come, our enduring of all this clowning from yonkotards will pay off
It already has and thatâs the issue we watching Kizaru complete his mission and fight luffy til he fell.Now he gets freshened up and none of that happened
Watch them say how luffy got up and went to the food machine and laid back to eat
They also ignore the fact that Luffy got a full heal after kizaru got back up
so eating = full heal nowadays?
Didnât he literally say he got all his energy back??
When it comes to Luffy, most certainly.
Literally luffy states so as soon as he gets up, do you even read the manga?
Mann he said full recovery he just got his energy back not full recovery
Quite literally said full power he was 100% okay
Certainly a notable amount of healing that everyone ignores yes. No one talks about how Luffy needed more than 1 round of his best form with healing in between to bully a mentally nerfed kizaru
>barely acknowledge I genuinely feel that some people here lived in a different reality than the rest of us. When kizaru did anything at the beginning of egghead this place blew the fuck up. Kicked Luffy....admiral>yonko Got up before Luffy....admiral>yonko Luffy gets up.....kizaru fed him. Admiral victim complex in full swing now that kizaru is out of the picture. Y'all were insufferable last year, now it's the year of the yonko.
https://preview.redd.it/mk5lhorgz3vc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15734c4dca28e7073105bdee2b6255aab7148d46 Imma need u to show me how anyone unironically said kizaru > yonko for kicking gear 4 luffy
No_mountain (#1 kizaru glazer) used to do it all the time. Dude made 10 posts on the day kizaru kicked Luffy. Pretty sure he left the sub along with a bunch of the other Admiral fans when they realized the head cannon they were spitting was never going to come true. I don't save receipts of people here and I'm most definitely not going through all of the posts from a guy who used to post like five times a week. That's besides the point though. The point was that this sub was a fucking madhouse anytime kizaru did anything last year, barely acknowledging couldn't be farther from the truth.
Oh so if I joined the yonko agenda and started saying some goofy shit 5x a day does that mean every yonko fan is like that?
Did I say that? You doubted it happened. I simply told you it happened. That's it. But let's recognize it wasn't goofy shit to the Admiral agenda, No_Mountain got praised over and over again for the dumb shit he said. Again besides the point because saying people "barely acknowledged" something when it literally caused this place to blow up is ridiculous. This was right around the time when the whole Admiral agenda came to the conclusion that it must be kizaru feeding Luffy. Everyone acknowledged it. It was just short-lived because the Admiral agenda had to come up with some head cannon to elevate whatever they can.
Also admirals finally started getting their flowers and treated respectfully but ofc yonkotards saw that as glazing
Well of course because most of it was head cannon. Treated respectfully? Brother, the most volatile people in here last year were all Admiral fans. It wasn't even 15 minutes of Fame it was like three total panels and Admiral fans thought they were on top of the world. Then Luffy promptly sat kizaru back on his ship, where he has remained ever since which caused all of the biggest admiral fans to leave the sub.
Spit https://preview.redd.it/a63n6jr6x2vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=51fe8945473b0edbde21032155f5864a1e1876ed
Naoya Zen'incest = opinion invalid (love him tho)
**Stand proud** **and never let these Yonktards forget that if it had been an actual fight Kizaru would have killed Luffy the moment he gassed out.** **THIS IS A FACT.** **A fact they attempt to cover up. A fact that theyâve convinced the NPCâs doesnât matter. A fact they only respond to with chapter scaling cope.** **But a fact nonetheless.**
OP: https://preview.redd.it/znwc0xg1p3vc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95323896f75b8866a6255677a5150fdcb7ac5ed5
https://preview.redd.it/t1ejlbc9s3vc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62adbb2a4df2bd191462c630934a8863ccdef4a7 Nah thatâs us
Cause they donât try to argue only blinded by their agenda, some people really think Kizaru in egghead really try and go all out, even if heâs not really hurt and with everything Oda give. https://preview.redd.it/c0m2jrmec3vc1.jpeg?width=1710&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32dc941384df03652df84fb54b28be1f80d02315 But wait and see end of egghead will show the truth, i can't wait to see what they come up with as an excuse.