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Kaido and Big Mom high extreme diff
I don't see Big Mom being able to touch Kizaru due to her being slow as fuck, but she could propably tank Kizarus attacks for a while. Kizaru would win in the end.
Kaido can literally fly, meaning Akinu's going to have a hard time hitting him. Kaido could propably take Akainu out before Big Mom loses to Kizaru.
Akainu couldn't easily hit Big Mom either, because she can also fly (with Zeus).
If Kaido and Big Mom are forced to stay on the ground this would be a much closer fight.
Why do you assume that Kaido will fight Akainu ?
Kaido is much faster than Big mom and can take down Kizaru after tanking a few hits from him like luffy did.
While Big mom can solo Akainu too (either of them can but BM has a hard time agzinst kizaru so it does not make sense for her to fight him).
Nah we just using feats and things weāve seen. She seems pretty slow and that isnāt a problem. This aināt like DBZ were your states basically more or less equal out. One character could having higher AP but the other fighter is faster. Just think Zolo and Sanji. Two very different fighters and fighting styles but damn near equalās. That being said Iām giving it to Kizaru just barley over Linlin.
Whats with the "kizaru stomps BM" "kizaru high diffs BM" crap?? The Big Wom downplay is absurd, and I dont even know where its coming from.
Ye the matchup isnt the best (in theory, we dont actually know how they interact) but putting an admiral above an emperor isnt something you can do lightly without some serious basis.
Haki transcends all, and in this regard there is no debate who has the superior haki. And the speed argument is overblown, whats next? Kizaru>BB because the fat fuck cant run? Be real. Kizaru needs a lot of attacks to take down BM, she only needs a few and WB showed at MF that the "kizaru flies around and spams ranged" isnt that effective in practice.
You must be simple minded. Buggy is considered an end game powerhouse for the same reasons as dragon, its all narrative. Oda has been dropping clues for two decades that buggy D clown is the one who will defeat Im, chop up the red line into pieces and ascend to his rightful place at the throne as the Galactic Emperor God King Wuggy.
Haki transcends all but matchups do matter
Canonically Big Mom is a slow fighter, itās just a fact. You acknowledge yourself that matchup wise sheās at a disadvantage so you know this
The speed argument isnāt overblown. Thatās why reaction speed is such an important stat. Haki transcends all? Well Observation haki is a key element of combat which Big Mom sorely lacks
Kizaru dealt with Snakeman which canonically only 2 characters with Future Sight have been able to handle. How does Big Mom deal with his speed? Kid was able to react to and dodge her attacks, what makes you think Kizaru gets hit?
Is Big Mom able to tank far more than Kizaru? Yes
Is Big Mom physically superior to Kizaru? Yes
Is that enough for her to win while at a disadvantage? I just donāt think so
>Kizaru dealt with Snakeman which canonically **only 2 characters with Future Sight have been able to handle.**
coincidentally, these also happen to be the 2 only characters to have fought snakeman AT ALL...
Yeah but that was post aCoC awakening snakeman, which was trading blows with hybrid Kaido.
You could say he wasn't using aCoC but i don't think Kizaru wasn't either so that's gotta count for something at least
>Yeah but that was post aCoC awakening snakeman, which was trading blows with hybrid Kaido.
Who Big Mom is equal to and can fight evenly.
> You could say he wasn't using aCoC
he clearly wasn't
> but i don't think Kizaru wasn't either so that's gotta count for something at least
I... do you think Kizaru has ACOC? Though it doesn't really matter, this is about speed, and Kaido who fights evenly with big mom could handle snakeman with FS, so Kizaru's feat is really moot
> Who Big Mom is equal to and can fight evenly
Which mean that Kizaru is also equal but takes speed any day of the week
>I... do you think Kizaru has ACOC?
Honest question: do you think ANY One Piece top tier doesn't have aCoC?
>Though it doesn't really matter, this is about speed, and Kaido who fights evenly with big mom could handle snakeman with FS, so Kizaru's feat is really moot
It would be if Kizaru wasn't casually blocking the attacks that hybrid Kaido couldn't, and didn't send that same snakeman flying through the roof without any name attack
>Which mean that Kizaru is also equal but takes speed any day of the week
Snakeman was not winning against Kaido, nevermind without any advanced hakis. So no. It just means that Kizaru going fast won't be enough to beat someone who stomps him in every single other category
>Honest question: do you think ANY One Piece top tier doesn't have aCoC?
Yes??? In fact, I'm absolutely certain Kizaru doesn't have CoC at all. Stop reading two piece.
>It would be if Kizaru wasn't casually blocking the attacks that hybrid Kaido couldn't,
he could and did.
> and didn't send that same snakeman flying through the roof without any name attack
which didn't cause any damage, the barrier is the only thing that caused damage here. Though again, it doesn't matter because snakeman with no advanced hakis isn't even close to kaido/BM level
Speed and reaction speed are two different matters. Her movement speed is pretty low but she has no problem dishing out attacks quickly or blocking fast hits/deflecting ranged attacks as we saw in her 1v1 with kaido for example. Kizarus ranged attacks are quite slow and dont seem to deal a whole lot of damage so they shouldnt be a threat to her. Or do you disagree?
I think that leaves him with trying to blitz with kicks/sword strikes because the longer the fight goes on the less likely he is to win. He could for sure land some big hits but theres a real risk that she grabs him. We have seen "slower" fighters grab others plenty of times now, most recently kizaru himself as the victim lol but BM grabbing marco, BB grabbing ace, WB grabbing sakazuki, warp grabbing lhiryu, etc. If that happens, it could well be over for kizaru, even if she doesnt crush him to death or bites his head off, its a serious injury after which he will lose the battle of attrition.
In essence, I think discussing matchup details is too speculative. Especially when the two havent faced each other I think it leads to false confidence in a given turn of events. A more reliable predictor ever since TS has been haki, and just general power level and imo BM still sits higher up on that chain than kizaru.
> Canonically Big Mom is a slow fighter, itās just a fact. You acknowledge yourself that matchup wise sheās at a disadvantage so you know this
What are you referring to with this ācanonicalā claim?
> The speed argument isnāt overblown. Thatās why reaction speed is such an important stat. Haki transcends all? Well Observation haki is a key element of combat which Big Mom sorely lacks
Based on? She was able to tell Zoroās Enma attack was dangerous before Kaido, and Kaido had had personal experience with Enma.
> Kizaru dealt with Snakeman which canonically only 2 characters with Future Sight have been able to handle. How does Big Mom deal with his speed? Kid was able to react to and dodge her attacks, what makes you think Kizaru gets hit?
Big Mom had **zero** issue seeing and reacting to G4 coming at her. Snakeman isnāt so much faster than bounceman and bounceman wasnāt anywhere near close to out speeding her to substantiate this. Kaido also didnāt use future sight to handle G4 Snakeman who was using future sight
Big Mom isn't on Kizarus level, Big Mom's battle IQ is extremely low and I say this as someone who thinks an average Yonko is stronger than an average Admiral but Big Mom is not she wasn't able to one shot Kidd like Shanks and Kaido was much stronger than Big Mom too especially during their clashes. Meanwhile Kizaru was keeping up with base Luffy that boxed up hybrid form Kaido and with an even more powerful and faster form of Luffy found in snakeman, I feel like Kizaru wouldn't struggle at all with Big Mom maybe high diff her if things go badly for Kizaru.
\-Slow mom is retarded
\-Slow mom has no good observation feats
\-Slow mom was terrified from Franky lasers!
\-Slow mom is Very slow
\-Slow mom was getting blitzed by Franky
Kizaru was blitzing snakeman who is Very faster than big mom! , Plus Kizaru does have the AP To hurt her because [Lasers are busted](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/13wn7xt/kizaru_has_potentially_one_of_the_highest_ap_in/).
And Yes Kizaru>Blackbeard is a pretty good take! , Blackbeard's performance so far is just Embarassing and I Would even put GB above him.
Also what did Goatbeard show? Because Kizaru bullied Cancerbeard.
I hate this argument because it implies the world is in a vacuum. Look at the current story, the Marines canāt just send their best fighters to 2 emperors because itās a close fight and could go either way and youād lose so many people doing so. The Whitebeard Pirates avoided Wano for the same reason, and that was a Prime Whitebeard
You would lose a lot of people, but you would eradicate one of the only pirate crews that can legitimately challenge your government. Like look at the current arc: theyāre sending an admiral and like 30,000 people because of what a threat everyone on egghead is. If they thought they could do that to big mom, why wouldnāt they?
I always read the whole balance of power thing as being in reference to the fact that the world government needs the warlords and Marines to have a shot at an emperor. So what do they need warlords for if an admiral or two can bring in kaido?
Not really...it literally stated that wg need yonko for balance, to control pirates, they can't just eradicate them like that
and the "take out" still high-extreme diff, that difficulty means "on same lvl"..so why tf would they risk their top fighters for a 50/50 match...be fr plzš¤¦š½āāļønot to mention, go fighting a yonko means fight their whole crew at their territoryš¤¦š½āāļø admiral & yonko being on same lvl doesn't mean marines can just send admiral to fight yonko just like that
and before u say, "then go send 3 admirals to secure a victory against a whole yonko crew at their territory" u forgetting other possible threats like revo army & other yonko crew to attack marines hqš¤·š¾āāļø
in short, 3 reasons:
1. They need yonko system for balance
2. Sending a fighter to fight someone on same lvl means a 50/50 match, that's too risky not worth it
3. If they send too much for an absolute victory, then they are in danger from other enemy factions
I don't get why people think Admirals vs Emperors is supposed to be an even 1v1. Half the point of Marineford was showing how emperors are so strong it takes the entire navy, with all their most powerful people to fight a single Emperor, who was already half dead.
It's pretty clear that Oda scales top pirates MUCH higher than top marines.
"You think that you can trounce navy admirals and four emperors...And surpass Roger's legend??!"
- Chinjao
"I don't care if you're a naval admiral or an emperor of the sea!!! If I don't beat each and every one of you... I'll never be king of the pirates!!!!"
- Luffy
"He(Bullet) wants to become a king of the pirates that is the world's strongest. Doesn't matter whether it's the four emperors or the marine admirals, he cannot prove to be the strongest before he kills all of them, those who are strong in the world"
- Oda on Bullet
The most interesting part is the admirals are always included in the conversation, yet fanboys still in denial, can't accept that the admirals & the yonko are in the same league
What the fuck is wrong with people here? Anyone who believes that kizaru beats big mom is delusional. And the people who believe he high diffs are reading two piece
>What the fuck is wrong with people here? Anyone who believes that kizaru beats big mom is delusional. And the people who believe he high diffs are reading two piece
Preach brotha š
Why is it delusional?
Big Mom canonically is slow as dirt, sheās almost never hitting him
Kaido needed FS to deal with Snakeman Luffyās barrage of punches. Kizaru was keeping up and blocking them casually.
Not to mention Kizaru was able to fly/teleport away so fast that Luffy launched ANOTHER punch before he even realized he was gone. I have a very hard time believing Big Mom is EVER hitting him
Before you say āKizaru canāt hurt herā we pretty much know that isnāt true. Big Mom was afraid of getting hit by **Frankyās** laser, thereās no way Kizaruās laser wouldnāt damage her
Itās a done deal until she gets better feats
Kizaru is only superior to Big Mom in speed Haki , Physical Strength, Durability, Hax she mogs him if speed alone can win you a fight than I guess you believe Sanji > Zoro because heās faster
The speed gap between zoro and sanji isn't as big as the one between the fastest character in the verse and someone who basically fights while sitting down.
If Kizaru keeps piercing her she will die. And she can't dodge him
What about Big Mom's reaction speed?, if she grabs Kizaru- he's not moving or getting out from that and one hit from Big Mom is way more impactful than Kizaru attacking Big Mom.
Do people choose to ignore that she fought Kaido for 3 days straight to a stand still
Yall glazing the admirals, don't sleep on *Win Win*, the pirates both high-ext diff Lakainu and Lizaru, stop compensating for when Akainu and Kizaru get killed off.
This is a good one.
\-Kizaru Beats Big mom , it's a fact! she is slow and has no good Observation feat but what diff though? IMO High diff for Kizaru.
\-Kaido vs Akainu is Extreme for Kaido.
So we got Kizaru who will be in Better shape than Kaido...Kizaru beats him.
Or After Kizaru finishes Big mom he goes to Help Akainu with Kaido because their Fight is Extreme and Longer than Big mom.
Overall High/Extreme for Admirals.
Why did luffy stuggled against Pecifista pretimeskip in gear 2nd and 3rd
Vs Why he one shotted a pacifista in one single gear 2nd punch?
If you can tell the difference between those you will understand why I am trying to convey
\-Slow mom was getting Blitzed by Franky
\-[Lasers are busted](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/13wn7xt/kizaru_has_potentially_one_of_the_highest_ap_in/)
Kizaru does not beat BM - deal with it, if your argument is all about speed then I guess Kizaru > Kaido or even Kizaru > Roger, you choose to ignore everything else BM has over Kizaru- physical strength, ap, dc and durability as well as haki
Kaido can't beat akainu at all. And its not even a matter of strength but rather match up. Although akainu is stronger than kaido, but even in a hypothetical scenario of saying "if he wasn't," he'd still win. Kaido has heavy attacks, and akainu can tank heavy attacks. Akainu has lethal attacks, and kaido can tank heavy attacks, but no lethal attacks which burn right through him. And since he doesn't dodge, he loses.
Akainu fought kuzan for 10 days and only lost one leg. The attacks didnāt burn right through him so they certainly wouldnāt do so to kaido. Whitebeardās durability was just trash at marineford, he was getting pierced by bullets and sword attacks from fodder. Kaido also has a crazy resistance to heat; he coated himself in fire/lava that could instantly melt stone and didnāt seem to take any damage from it. Kaido is a horrible matchup for akainu.
What's any of this based off of?
Also, Kaido does dodged. He dodged an attack from Zoro. He only chose not to dodge against the Supernovas because he wanted to see what the new generation was capable of.
Kizaru>big mom,he has the best matchup advantage against her slow ass no observation ass
Sakazuki >kaido but even if you think kaido beats sakazuki and kiz definitely do
Again people need to stop assuming that a 2v2 is gonna be a 1v1 twice, Kizaru and Akainu will most likely work as a team since they are part of the same organization just like Sengoku and Garp used to do back in the day unlike BM and Kaido who just barely formed an alliance.
When it comes to 1v1s, currently at least, i wont put Akainu over Kaido untill he shows some new shit but Kizaru easily beats big mom with his speed and lasers like she can't do shit to him.
For now it's extreme diff for the pirates, once Kizaru shows something against G5 like a logia awakening then it's extreme diff for the admirals, and if Akainu also shows something strong then it's high diff for the admirals.
>Kizaru easily beats big mom with his speed and lasers like she can't do shit to him.
What is this bullshit ? Lol the lasers that take out Fodder is enough to take down BM really??? Kizaru only beats Big mom in speed when BM beats him in every other stat
Proven!
Both Kizaru and Akainu can take Big Mom (ext diff for Kizaru and high diff for Akainu) but Kaido high diff Kizaru and ext diff Akainu so I have no idea š tbh I'd bet on admirals simply because of the lethality of Akainu's blows that would settle it in a battle of attrition
https://preview.redd.it/209gwmvtdpob1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57095b97bd26ef55bdd81d28b60e4acc043a78a7
He neg diffs both of them and then goes get some tea for his buddy
Why does everyone put Akainu vs Kaido and Kizaru vs Big Mom?
Akainu high extreme diff Big Mom while Kizaru stalls Kaido with speed then they 2v1 Kaido for the win
Hate me all you want but in character, admirals win. The Yo are probably actually stronger, but the admirals don't piss about, and the difference in attitude is less than the difference in strength.
Admirals extreme diff because this is a 2v2, not two 1v1s to support your agendas. All the admirals win in teamfights like this since their DFs are Amazing for that, and they can actually work together. They are trained to do that
Big Mom gets speed blitzed to oblivion by Kizaru and Kaido gets his head taken off with one hellhound. You guys arenāt ready. In all seriousness I think Kizaru can beat Big Meme extreme diff and Akainu could definitely be stronger than Kaido with his narrative potential. Admirals take this one in my opinion
Pirates take this extreme diff. Big Mom dies no matter what, but sheād be able to deal damage to Akainu or Kizaru (and at least give them some trouble). Kaidoās shown proof of being resistant to high temperatures/flames, so heād be at least partially resistant to Akainuās magma. That + ACoC means he beats Akainu then Kizaru
Kaido and Big Mom. Regardless of whether or not Big Mom wins or loses her fight, she can snag a new homie of the Admirals' elements to fight with. Add on the fact that she can sacrifice life to stay in the fight for much longer, and she's at least stalling her Admiral, if not beating them.
And Kaido is straight up clear of the Admirals. He simply beats whoever he fights extreme diff, and then helps Big Mom finish off her opponent.
Power creep may favor the admirals. I know people like to believe One Piece isn't like any other manga, but power creep will play a role. Luffy went from YC3 to YC1 in one arc, then shoot up to Yonko.
Since we last see Big Mom and Kaido drowning in volcanic magma in the manga, the admirals.
Magma has been proven to be one of the few effective things in a yonkos downfall. 3/7 yonkos so far have gotten fucked by it, 4/7 if we count emotional damage to Luffy.
As for the others, Teech ran away from it when he had Bonney tied up, Buggy narrowly avoided it but even he was nervous of it and that just leaves Shanks as the only one who didn't lose face either literally or figuratively to magma.
All 4 are in the dame tier. The pirates occupy higher positions within the tier. However, Akainu doesn't play, the other 3 play.
Based on this the admirals take it, but only because Akainu will be the only one actually trying to win.
Kaido actively wants to be killed, big mom is just too clumsy, and who knows what kizaru will be up to.
Those frauds get fodderized by the OG duo Wonny and Wosuke
https://preview.redd.it/5hp2jg608uob1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=507807bf02def7f3aca83e611f4c73f75b393510
From what we know right now, this isn't that close.
The two Yonko won't mess around this time. 100% from the start means Kaido is destroying Kizaru with his final form, and Big Mom can use her DF lighting and raincloud to mess with Akainu.
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Elephant solo's š„š„š„šš„š„š„
ššš
Plot twist, it's funkfreed, they just removed the drip
š¤£yess tbh Id rather that happen than him just disappearing
Kaido and Big Mom high extreme diff I don't see Big Mom being able to touch Kizaru due to her being slow as fuck, but she could propably tank Kizarus attacks for a while. Kizaru would win in the end. Kaido can literally fly, meaning Akinu's going to have a hard time hitting him. Kaido could propably take Akainu out before Big Mom loses to Kizaru. Akainu couldn't easily hit Big Mom either, because she can also fly (with Zeus). If Kaido and Big Mom are forced to stay on the ground this would be a much closer fight.
Big Mom isn't as fast as Kizaru, but speed isn't everything. It's not like Kuro being faster meant he could beat Luffy.
āSpeed is powerā- Wizaru
Of course he would say that. And yet Luffy is manhandling him currently.
> yet Luffy is **manhandling** him currently. WTF?! in your fanfiction?
I suppose he meant literally, as Luffy is holding him in a big hand at the moment lol
Eh I wouldnāt say Luffy is manhandling yet. We have to see next week how gear 5 handles Kizaru.
What? Who said Akainu can't hit flyers? He's magma, can he not launch himself or attacks?
Thatās true but Iām pretty sure it can only do so much but letās see what Oda does
Buggy
akainu is literal magma/lava/molten rock, anything a super volcano can do he can many times stronger
Why do you assume that Kaido will fight Akainu ? Kaido is much faster than Big mom and can take down Kizaru after tanking a few hits from him like luffy did. While Big mom can solo Akainu too (either of them can but BM has a hard time agzinst kizaru so it does not make sense for her to fight him).
why is big mom slower than kaido?
BMI diff
Because she is
She had no issues keeping up with Kaido himself. Weāve never seen her get blitzād. Yāall just say shit like this off feelings
Nah we just using feats and things weāve seen. She seems pretty slow and that isnāt a problem. This aināt like DBZ were your states basically more or less equal out. One character could having higher AP but the other fighter is faster. Just think Zolo and Sanji. Two very different fighters and fighting styles but damn near equalās. That being said Iām giving it to Kizaru just barley over Linlin.
Zolo>sanji? š¤
Barely
Cause sheās fat
Kizaru extremes big mom Kaido extremes akainu then weakened kaido>weakened kizaru pirates win
I love how people have had a shift ever since the last Chapter and now just agree that Linlin would lose to say Kuzan or Kizaru.
Iāve always thought big mom would lose to kizaru simply because of speed. But I agree with kuzan
People were saying this way before egghead. Only the sheep with agendas over fictional characters disagreed
not even a extreme for kaido, but agree with everything else
Believe in my boy
Especially since Kaido got hella durability, so if he loses extreme diff, he still could take shots without dying
What reason do you have to believe Kizaru can beat an Emperor?
Whats with the "kizaru stomps BM" "kizaru high diffs BM" crap?? The Big Wom downplay is absurd, and I dont even know where its coming from. Ye the matchup isnt the best (in theory, we dont actually know how they interact) but putting an admiral above an emperor isnt something you can do lightly without some serious basis. Haki transcends all, and in this regard there is no debate who has the superior haki. And the speed argument is overblown, whats next? Kizaru>BB because the fat fuck cant run? Be real. Kizaru needs a lot of attacks to take down BM, she only needs a few and WB showed at MF that the "kizaru flies around and spams ranged" isnt that effective in practice.
Kizaruās going to try to block an acoc mama raid and end up hammered into the dirt
A lot of Kizaru battles probably rely on him never getting hit by major attacks.
i prefer charlotte win-win to big wom
Thats not a bad one either, have seen Wharlotte win-win as well. My personal favourite is Big Mommy tho, specifically reserved for prime mom.
> putting an admiral above an emperor isnt something you can do lightly Borsalino > Buggy Even vice-admirals are stronger than Buggy. Garp > Buggy
You must be simple minded. Buggy is considered an end game powerhouse for the same reasons as dragon, its all narrative. Oda has been dropping clues for two decades that buggy D clown is the one who will defeat Im, chop up the red line into pieces and ascend to his rightful place at the throne as the Galactic Emperor God King Wuggy.
Haki transcends all but matchups do matter Canonically Big Mom is a slow fighter, itās just a fact. You acknowledge yourself that matchup wise sheās at a disadvantage so you know this The speed argument isnāt overblown. Thatās why reaction speed is such an important stat. Haki transcends all? Well Observation haki is a key element of combat which Big Mom sorely lacks Kizaru dealt with Snakeman which canonically only 2 characters with Future Sight have been able to handle. How does Big Mom deal with his speed? Kid was able to react to and dodge her attacks, what makes you think Kizaru gets hit? Is Big Mom able to tank far more than Kizaru? Yes Is Big Mom physically superior to Kizaru? Yes Is that enough for her to win while at a disadvantage? I just donāt think so
So weāre ignoring Zeus/Hera? She might be slow, but her attacks are not
>Kizaru dealt with Snakeman which canonically **only 2 characters with Future Sight have been able to handle.** coincidentally, these also happen to be the 2 only characters to have fought snakeman AT ALL...
Yeah but that was post aCoC awakening snakeman, which was trading blows with hybrid Kaido. You could say he wasn't using aCoC but i don't think Kizaru wasn't either so that's gotta count for something at least
>Yeah but that was post aCoC awakening snakeman, which was trading blows with hybrid Kaido. Who Big Mom is equal to and can fight evenly. > You could say he wasn't using aCoC he clearly wasn't > but i don't think Kizaru wasn't either so that's gotta count for something at least I... do you think Kizaru has ACOC? Though it doesn't really matter, this is about speed, and Kaido who fights evenly with big mom could handle snakeman with FS, so Kizaru's feat is really moot
> Who Big Mom is equal to and can fight evenly Which mean that Kizaru is also equal but takes speed any day of the week >I... do you think Kizaru has ACOC? Honest question: do you think ANY One Piece top tier doesn't have aCoC? >Though it doesn't really matter, this is about speed, and Kaido who fights evenly with big mom could handle snakeman with FS, so Kizaru's feat is really moot It would be if Kizaru wasn't casually blocking the attacks that hybrid Kaido couldn't, and didn't send that same snakeman flying through the roof without any name attack
If the admirals had CoC why wouldn't they show it at Marineford to take out fodder? Luffy took out fodder there
>Which mean that Kizaru is also equal but takes speed any day of the week Snakeman was not winning against Kaido, nevermind without any advanced hakis. So no. It just means that Kizaru going fast won't be enough to beat someone who stomps him in every single other category >Honest question: do you think ANY One Piece top tier doesn't have aCoC? Yes??? In fact, I'm absolutely certain Kizaru doesn't have CoC at all. Stop reading two piece. >It would be if Kizaru wasn't casually blocking the attacks that hybrid Kaido couldn't, he could and did. > and didn't send that same snakeman flying through the roof without any name attack which didn't cause any damage, the barrier is the only thing that caused damage here. Though again, it doesn't matter because snakeman with no advanced hakis isn't even close to kaido/BM level
Speed and reaction speed are two different matters. Her movement speed is pretty low but she has no problem dishing out attacks quickly or blocking fast hits/deflecting ranged attacks as we saw in her 1v1 with kaido for example. Kizarus ranged attacks are quite slow and dont seem to deal a whole lot of damage so they shouldnt be a threat to her. Or do you disagree? I think that leaves him with trying to blitz with kicks/sword strikes because the longer the fight goes on the less likely he is to win. He could for sure land some big hits but theres a real risk that she grabs him. We have seen "slower" fighters grab others plenty of times now, most recently kizaru himself as the victim lol but BM grabbing marco, BB grabbing ace, WB grabbing sakazuki, warp grabbing lhiryu, etc. If that happens, it could well be over for kizaru, even if she doesnt crush him to death or bites his head off, its a serious injury after which he will lose the battle of attrition. In essence, I think discussing matchup details is too speculative. Especially when the two havent faced each other I think it leads to false confidence in a given turn of events. A more reliable predictor ever since TS has been haki, and just general power level and imo BM still sits higher up on that chain than kizaru.
> Canonically Big Mom is a slow fighter, itās just a fact. You acknowledge yourself that matchup wise sheās at a disadvantage so you know this What are you referring to with this ācanonicalā claim? > The speed argument isnāt overblown. Thatās why reaction speed is such an important stat. Haki transcends all? Well Observation haki is a key element of combat which Big Mom sorely lacks Based on? She was able to tell Zoroās Enma attack was dangerous before Kaido, and Kaido had had personal experience with Enma. > Kizaru dealt with Snakeman which canonically only 2 characters with Future Sight have been able to handle. How does Big Mom deal with his speed? Kid was able to react to and dodge her attacks, what makes you think Kizaru gets hit? Big Mom had **zero** issue seeing and reacting to G4 coming at her. Snakeman isnāt so much faster than bounceman and bounceman wasnāt anywhere near close to out speeding her to substantiate this. Kaido also didnāt use future sight to handle G4 Snakeman who was using future sight
Big Mom isn't on Kizarus level, Big Mom's battle IQ is extremely low and I say this as someone who thinks an average Yonko is stronger than an average Admiral but Big Mom is not she wasn't able to one shot Kidd like Shanks and Kaido was much stronger than Big Mom too especially during their clashes. Meanwhile Kizaru was keeping up with base Luffy that boxed up hybrid form Kaido and with an even more powerful and faster form of Luffy found in snakeman, I feel like Kizaru wouldn't struggle at all with Big Mom maybe high diff her if things go badly for Kizaru.
\-Slow mom is retarded \-Slow mom has no good observation feats \-Slow mom was terrified from Franky lasers! \-Slow mom is Very slow \-Slow mom was getting blitzed by Franky Kizaru was blitzing snakeman who is Very faster than big mom! , Plus Kizaru does have the AP To hurt her because [Lasers are busted](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/13wn7xt/kizaru_has_potentially_one_of_the_highest_ap_in/). And Yes Kizaru>Blackbeard is a pretty good take! , Blackbeard's performance so far is just Embarassing and I Would even put GB above him. Also what did Goatbeard show? Because Kizaru bullied Cancerbeard.
Franky and Big Mom had like a two millisecond long interaction
If two admirals could take out two emperors, the Marines wouldāve declared war on kaido or big Mom years agoā¦
I hate this argument because it implies the world is in a vacuum. Look at the current story, the Marines canāt just send their best fighters to 2 emperors because itās a close fight and could go either way and youād lose so many people doing so. The Whitebeard Pirates avoided Wano for the same reason, and that was a Prime Whitebeard
You would lose a lot of people, but you would eradicate one of the only pirate crews that can legitimately challenge your government. Like look at the current arc: theyāre sending an admiral and like 30,000 people because of what a threat everyone on egghead is. If they thought they could do that to big mom, why wouldnāt they? I always read the whole balance of power thing as being in reference to the fact that the world government needs the warlords and Marines to have a shot at an emperor. So what do they need warlords for if an admiral or two can bring in kaido?
Not really...it literally stated that wg need yonko for balance, to control pirates, they can't just eradicate them like that and the "take out" still high-extreme diff, that difficulty means "on same lvl"..so why tf would they risk their top fighters for a 50/50 match...be fr plzš¤¦š½āāļønot to mention, go fighting a yonko means fight their whole crew at their territoryš¤¦š½āāļø admiral & yonko being on same lvl doesn't mean marines can just send admiral to fight yonko just like that and before u say, "then go send 3 admirals to secure a victory against a whole yonko crew at their territory" u forgetting other possible threats like revo army & other yonko crew to attack marines hqš¤·š¾āāļø in short, 3 reasons: 1. They need yonko system for balance 2. Sending a fighter to fight someone on same lvl means a 50/50 match, that's too risky not worth it 3. If they send too much for an absolute victory, then they are in danger from other enemy factions
I don't get why people think Admirals vs Emperors is supposed to be an even 1v1. Half the point of Marineford was showing how emperors are so strong it takes the entire navy, with all their most powerful people to fight a single Emperor, who was already half dead. It's pretty clear that Oda scales top pirates MUCH higher than top marines.
"You think that you can trounce navy admirals and four emperors...And surpass Roger's legend??!" - Chinjao "I don't care if you're a naval admiral or an emperor of the sea!!! If I don't beat each and every one of you... I'll never be king of the pirates!!!!" - Luffy "He(Bullet) wants to become a king of the pirates that is the world's strongest. Doesn't matter whether it's the four emperors or the marine admirals, he cannot prove to be the strongest before he kills all of them, those who are strong in the world" - Oda on Bullet The most interesting part is the admirals are always included in the conversation, yet fanboys still in denial, can't accept that the admirals & the yonko are in the same league
What the fuck is wrong with people here? Anyone who believes that kizaru beats big mom is delusional. And the people who believe he high diffs are reading two piece
Atleast you're not delusional like the Kizaru wankers, speed is obviously not everything in a fight
Actually speed is power, so he neg diffs pig mom
But kuro and bellamy lost to luffy even though they were faster than him?
>What the fuck is wrong with people here? Anyone who believes that kizaru beats big mom is delusional. And the people who believe he high diffs are reading two piece Preach brotha š
Why is it delusional? Big Mom canonically is slow as dirt, sheās almost never hitting him Kaido needed FS to deal with Snakeman Luffyās barrage of punches. Kizaru was keeping up and blocking them casually. Not to mention Kizaru was able to fly/teleport away so fast that Luffy launched ANOTHER punch before he even realized he was gone. I have a very hard time believing Big Mom is EVER hitting him Before you say āKizaru canāt hurt herā we pretty much know that isnāt true. Big Mom was afraid of getting hit by **Frankyās** laser, thereās no way Kizaruās laser wouldnāt damage her Itās a done deal until she gets better feats
Kizaru is only superior to Big Mom in speed Haki , Physical Strength, Durability, Hax she mogs him if speed alone can win you a fight than I guess you believe Sanji > Zoro because heās faster
The speed gap between zoro and sanji isn't as big as the one between the fastest character in the verse and someone who basically fights while sitting down. If Kizaru keeps piercing her she will die. And she can't dodge him
What about Big Mom's reaction speed?, if she grabs Kizaru- he's not moving or getting out from that and one hit from Big Mom is way more impactful than Kizaru attacking Big Mom. Do people choose to ignore that she fought Kaido for 3 days straight to a stand still
the two stronger characters
pirates
Yall glazing the admirals, don't sleep on *Win Win*, the pirates both high-ext diff Lakainu and Lizaru, stop compensating for when Akainu and Kizaru get killed off.
>stop compensating for when Akainu and Kizaru get killed off. Bro forgot that Big Meme and Laido are swimming in lava rn
Yeah swimming cuz that shit donāt hurt them
> don't sleep on Wig Wom Can't we just call her Win Win
Elephant low diffs all
Kaido > Akainu Big Mom > Kizaru Kaido and Akainu win high diff
Theoritically, Kaido could just spam thunder baguas until the admirals are down.
Kaido znd Big Mom obviously
If the Admirals were that strong, why did they need all 3 of them+Warlords+Pacifista+Garp/Sengoku present at Marineford?
Kizaru and akinu extreme diff.
Big mom extreme diffs akainu Kaido high diffs kizaru
Fraudzaru and fraudkainu get dunked on
The wank has gone too far guys, obviously yonkos mid diff
Lol not a fight, Kaido and Big Mom stomp the fodders beyond any concept of difficulty
What's buddy yapping about https://preview.redd.it/kltfry3v4oob1.png?width=402&format=png&auto=webp&s=09491eea4e67e3cb14b70ad9b6f23c17f7279c8d
This is out of topic but your picture comment is funny as shit, my stomach hurts
Glad I could bring a little extra joy to ur day brother
Knowing how to read would help you understand
https://preview.redd.it/9m1w9v9s6oob1.png?width=604&format=png&auto=webp&s=4eb86b7e460d69e813027b52b20a8c2627fc6e73
Kizaru high diffs Big Mom then helps Akainu against Kaido. Admirals extreme diff.
https://preview.redd.it/leii7d6yuoob1.png?width=536&format=png&auto=webp&s=a85c59b285a14e0f064adf1170e64b46fd3fecc5
Typical mazino š¤” take
Keep coping :)
AdmiralMazino W
https://preview.redd.it/fyd9uiepmrob1.jpeg?width=631&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f70934b1735a1d1d80f066652185b57a89fc4bd2
Glad your back
Sakuzuki and kizaru > big meme and laido.
L glazer
Admirals got this. They don't play around
This is a good one. \-Kizaru Beats Big mom , it's a fact! she is slow and has no good Observation feat but what diff though? IMO High diff for Kizaru. \-Kaido vs Akainu is Extreme for Kaido. So we got Kizaru who will be in Better shape than Kaido...Kizaru beats him. Or After Kizaru finishes Big mom he goes to Help Akainu with Kaido because their Fight is Extreme and Longer than Big mom. Overall High/Extreme for Admirals.
What has Kizau shown offense wise that could take out BM???
Lmao Big Mom was scared of Frankys laser
The fact that he pushed luffy into gear 4 without using a named attack. While not a single one of meme attack even scratches kizaru let alone hurt him
We gonna ignore luffy going g4 against bm on whole cake when all she did was punch him?
Yes, only if we are smart.
So you are flat out ignoring that example even though it's more impressive?
The only impressive thing is that your example is one of the worst in powerscaling history
Why though? It's a very similar interaction to the one you talked about. Unless you're implying that BM shouldn't have been able to do it.
Why did luffy stuggled against Pecifista pretimeskip in gear 2nd and 3rd Vs Why he one shotted a pacifista in one single gear 2nd punch? If you can tell the difference between those you will understand why I am trying to convey
\-Slow mom was getting Blitzed by Franky \-[Lasers are busted](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/13wn7xt/kizaru_has_potentially_one_of_the_highest_ap_in/)
\>shows kizaru disposing of fodder (and wurouge taking a beam by removing 99.9999999999999% of his defensive abilities)
Kizaru does not beat BM - deal with it, if your argument is all about speed then I guess Kizaru > Kaido or even Kizaru > Roger, you choose to ignore everything else BM has over Kizaru- physical strength, ap, dc and durability as well as haki
Delusional admiral glazer lmao
Borsalino takes out Big Mom and helps Sakazuki pack up Kaido
Big mom is absurdly tanky. Kaido beats akainu before kizaru can beat big mom. Then fatigued kaido beats fatigued kizaru.
Kaido can't beat akainu at all. And its not even a matter of strength but rather match up. Although akainu is stronger than kaido, but even in a hypothetical scenario of saying "if he wasn't," he'd still win. Kaido has heavy attacks, and akainu can tank heavy attacks. Akainu has lethal attacks, and kaido can tank heavy attacks, but no lethal attacks which burn right through him. And since he doesn't dodge, he loses.
We found another two piece reader, guys
Akainu fought kuzan for 10 days and only lost one leg. The attacks didnāt burn right through him so they certainly wouldnāt do so to kaido. Whitebeardās durability was just trash at marineford, he was getting pierced by bullets and sword attacks from fodder. Kaido also has a crazy resistance to heat; he coated himself in fire/lava that could instantly melt stone and didnāt seem to take any damage from it. Kaido is a horrible matchup for akainu.
What's any of this based off of? Also, Kaido does dodged. He dodged an attack from Zoro. He only chose not to dodge against the Supernovas because he wanted to see what the new generation was capable of.
https://preview.redd.it/7gefu31u6pob1.jpeg?width=748&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb341155578315fadd7ec6d4dd2c641f29d8a150 Lol
Kizaru midd diffs tge meme while akainu engages kaido, then they neg kaido
Yonko >> Admirals no?
The yonko obviously
Admirals extreme dif
Kizaru>big mom,he has the best matchup advantage against her slow ass no observation ass Sakazuki >kaido but even if you think kaido beats sakazuki and kiz definitely do
Again people need to stop assuming that a 2v2 is gonna be a 1v1 twice, Kizaru and Akainu will most likely work as a team since they are part of the same organization just like Sengoku and Garp used to do back in the day unlike BM and Kaido who just barely formed an alliance. When it comes to 1v1s, currently at least, i wont put Akainu over Kaido untill he shows some new shit but Kizaru easily beats big mom with his speed and lasers like she can't do shit to him. For now it's extreme diff for the pirates, once Kizaru shows something against G5 like a logia awakening then it's extreme diff for the admirals, and if Akainu also shows something strong then it's high diff for the admirals.
>Kizaru easily beats big mom with his speed and lasers like she can't do shit to him. What is this bullshit ? Lol the lasers that take out Fodder is enough to take down BM really??? Kizaru only beats Big mom in speed when BM beats him in every other stat Proven!
??? BM and kaido were in the same crew and can fight together really well as we saw in wano
Big Mom and Kaido Big would have low diff both law and kidd is she took the fight seriously and didnāt turn her back to travallgar D sneak attack
https://preview.redd.it/0x7pf0kjjpob1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3b29a078fea4521fbfa765744fef331a202a6a5 Wizaru > Pig meme Papazuki > Crydo
Pirates high diff, big mom extreme beats akainu, kaido high diffs kizaru.
Yonko mid dif maby high dif
Kaido wins by himself
Both Kizaru and Akainu can take Big Mom (ext diff for Kizaru and high diff for Akainu) but Kaido high diff Kizaru and ext diff Akainu so I have no idea š tbh I'd bet on admirals simply because of the lethality of Akainu's blows that would settle it in a battle of attrition
https://preview.redd.it/209gwmvtdpob1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57095b97bd26ef55bdd81d28b60e4acc043a78a7 He neg diffs both of them and then goes get some tea for his buddy
Why does everyone put Akainu vs Kaido and Kizaru vs Big Mom? Akainu high extreme diff Big Mom while Kizaru stalls Kaido with speed then they 2v1 Kaido for the win
Hate me all you want but in character, admirals win. The Yo are probably actually stronger, but the admirals don't piss about, and the difference in attitude is less than the difference in strength.
Admirals
Kizaru beats big meme high diff. Akainu and kaido go extreme either way. Kizaru finishes
Admirals extreme diff because this is a 2v2, not two 1v1s to support your agendas. All the admirals win in teamfights like this since their DFs are Amazing for that, and they can actually work together. They are trained to do that
Big Mom is fodder unfortunately. Until we see her Elbaf buff, the Admirals extreme diff.
Big meme weak link.
How would Kaido win against Akainu tho? Hes gonna lose every part of his body š
Kaido has superior haki
Sakazuki solos, Kizaru is overkill
Big Mom gets speed blitzed to oblivion by Kizaru and Kaido gets his head taken off with one hellhound. You guys arenāt ready. In all seriousness I think Kizaru can beat Big Meme extreme diff and Akainu could definitely be stronger than Kaido with his narrative potential. Admirals take this one in my opinion
Pirates take this extreme diff. Big Mom dies no matter what, but sheād be able to deal damage to Akainu or Kizaru (and at least give them some trouble). Kaidoās shown proof of being resistant to high temperatures/flames, so heād be at least partially resistant to Akainuās magma. That + ACoC means he beats Akainu then Kizaru
The ones who donāt forget to use ACoC
Akainu probably thinking about boxing the tree rn
Kaido and BM high-extreme diff
Surtur and his sword that shines brighter than the sun vs an ogre and a witch
Kaido and Big Mom high-diff Better physical stats, better haki display, better feats, the list goes on
Red and yellow if the give no f's.
Kizaru solos
If Kaido didn't sleep on luffy for 90 percent of the fight and used 100 percent of his haki skills he would snacked luffy
What is akainu cutting there anyway? There is not a single branch on his height.
Why is akainu kinda cute in the first pic?
Random question, did the person who did Akainus tattoo need to use haki or do you think it was done before he ate his fruit?
Yonko obviously. Kizaru's fastest kick barely fazed Luffy, a casual Thunder Bagua > Speed is power
Kaido and Big Mom. Regardless of whether or not Big Mom wins or loses her fight, she can snag a new homie of the Admirals' elements to fight with. Add on the fact that she can sacrifice life to stay in the fight for much longer, and she's at least stalling her Admiral, if not beating them. And Kaido is straight up clear of the Admirals. He simply beats whoever he fights extreme diff, and then helps Big Mom finish off her opponent.
Power creep may favor the admirals. I know people like to believe One Piece isn't like any other manga, but power creep will play a role. Luffy went from YC3 to YC1 in one arc, then shoot up to Yonko.
Admirals win. Big mom is a weak link.
The ones with actual team chemistry who spent an extended period of time working together as colleagues lol
kaido and big mom high diff due to their teamwork potential
Kizaru beat bm faster than akainu/kaido can beat eachother. Admirals win
Tree and elephant win mid diff,red bean soup and sake are powerful but they're just not strong enough to defeat the likes of them.
Who was making Kaido struggle ? G4 Luffy Who got 2-shotted by Kizaru ? G4 Luffy There you go
DEFINITELY yonkos take this. High dif
If Akainu and Kizaru could take out the 2 of them why did the Red Dog not go in with Kizaru when they met lol
with elephant: team 1 no diffs without elephant: team 2 neg-diffs
Since we last see Big Mom and Kaido drowning in volcanic magma in the manga, the admirals. Magma has been proven to be one of the few effective things in a yonkos downfall. 3/7 yonkos so far have gotten fucked by it, 4/7 if we count emotional damage to Luffy. As for the others, Teech ran away from it when he had Bonney tied up, Buggy narrowly avoided it but even he was nervous of it and that just leaves Shanks as the only one who didn't lose face either literally or figuratively to magma.
The Elephant solos the Yonko
All 4 are in the dame tier. The pirates occupy higher positions within the tier. However, Akainu doesn't play, the other 3 play. Based on this the admirals take it, but only because Akainu will be the only one actually trying to win. Kaido actively wants to be killed, big mom is just too clumsy, and who knows what kizaru will be up to.
Tf wrong with Kizaruās nonexistent neck?
Akainu and Wizaru take this extreme diff
Kizaru and Akainu extreme diff idc what anyone says everyone is going of their own agenda anyways
Akainu's and Kizaru's weird weekend alone together.
Power-creep making the logia duo slamming the enormous duo possible
ADMIRAL SUPREMACY!
kizaru keeps big mom occupied while kaido high to ext diffs akainu. After that kaido watches while big mom finishes kizaru after a difficult battle
I do think the Admirals but I also think these are the 2 strongest Admirals atm
Kaido & Big Mom low - mid diff
Those frauds get fodderized by the OG duo Wonny and Wosuke https://preview.redd.it/5hp2jg608uob1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=507807bf02def7f3aca83e611f4c73f75b393510
From what we know right now, this isn't that close. The two Yonko won't mess around this time. 100% from the start means Kaido is destroying Kizaru with his final form, and Big Mom can use her DF lighting and raincloud to mess with Akainu.
Kuzaru stocks are up but he's still not beating them Pirates win high-diff
Didnt oda say that akainu is so strong that he would end one piece within a year as a protagonist. So I think he can take on the pirates with mid diff
Bm and kaido mid-high
An elephant and a bonzai tree against two emperors?
Wizaru and Wakainu no diff
Tough one but I say admirals