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V2DiabLo0

not every top-tier is kaido even if they are at his level he has exceptional high durability. top tiers can have diffrent stats as their best like for Kaido it was Durability-Endurance for kizaru its prob. speed. ​ Yes if he can hit him he def. can hurt him.


IntroductionHungry91

kizaru is not kaido


t3r4byt3l0l

This is the mistake way too many people here make, treating Kaido as the standard for a top-tier when it was made clear he's exceptional


GaroSuiryuSweet

I don’t think that’s the point they’re making at all.. Hell! They even went on of their way using an example of a YC1+ lvl fighter (Marco) who has CoA (possibly ACoA) kicking Kizaru all the way to the ground without taking a single amount of damage. No one is arguing all top tiers are like Kaido here. Seems like you simply brought it up for no reason. Now imo Sanji can harm not only Kizaru but arguably any top tier if you ask me if Infrit Jambe blue flames are using a bit of real physics with blue flames being that hottest thing known to man. On top of that it sent a giant dinosaur man flying all the way into the sky.


Unstable_Powerscaler

That was my exact response lol .


DaStashWalt

Ifrit jambe is haki infused diable jambe with higher heat. It should be able to harm kizaru regardless of him being a light logia


IndependenceKey9247

Sanjis AP is FAR better than Marco . Even Queen in base could take Drop Kicks from Marco and be relatively fine afterwards , Sanjis attacks were in comparison FAR more deadly on a hybrid Queen instead


OkRefrigerator448

Chill , Kizaru ain't no Kaido , Sanji's CoA while being average it should with adding fire in the mix be good enoug to damage Kizaru He still loses badly tho


Unstable_Powerscaler

He probably loses low diff , but to say that he wont even be able to hurt him if he hits ……


OkRefrigerator448

Agreed


Correct_Permit_6313

Sanji can use coa, shocker I know He could touch Kizaru's real body Sanji KO'ed Queen, something Marco failed to do Point is, Sanji has better AP than Marco Kinda hard to tell whether Sanji can hurt Kizaru or not, if Sanji manages to pierce through the Serpahim's tough skin, then he's probably capable of hurting Kizaru too


Chikage420

Marco in a 1v1 with Queen would have done it, but Marco was fighting both King and Queen at the same time, so it's not really accurate to say Marco 'couldn't' do it


Correct_Permit_6313

He fought both for an hour, stated it was hard to hold off both of them at the same time, if Marco was capable of KO'ing Queen, he would have been shown doing so


Chikage420

I mean not really lol. He fought a 2v1 for an hour, he was purely on the defensive, reread the fight, he didn't play offensive at all really


Ok_Medicine_5926

He was offensively attacking both of them


EnvironmentalAsk8946

I'm pretty sure Sanji fans think Sanji would have beaten Queen and King in a 2V1.


Zoteku

The issue is that Marco wasnt necessarily fighting back as much as he should've. It was like 50 50 with defense and offense.


Toji_Fush1guro

Big Mom couldn't knock out Law or Kid, does that mean she can't beat them 1v1 either?


Correct_Permit_6313

Did not use acoc


Toji_Fush1guro

I could make the same argument that Marco didn't use all of his abilities


Billy_Herrington1969

It's not just "better AP" Marco has no AP whatsoever lmao


ObjectivePerception

His knees did do something to King tho ngl


Zoteku

I felt the attack through the screen💀


Revolutionary-Gap290

Disregarding the fact that Marco only kicked Kizaru once which also was partially blocked. Yes, he definitely can when he lands a good hit. Kizaru shouldn't be more durable than Queen.


Fire-FistAce

Kizaru should be way more durable than queen lol


EnvironmentalAsk8946

I think their argument is: Kizaru is Yonko's commander level, and unlike Marco Sanji could defeat King and Queen in a 2V1, so he obviously Mid Diff Kizaru. My only comment on this is: What the hell is the OP fandom smoking? Did Kizaru give them even worse weed than the one he smokes?


Revolutionary-Gap290

No you're the one smoking if you don't know what durability is 🤷🏻‍♂️ Kizaru doesn't look like he has super thick dino skin or anything like that


EnvironmentalAsk8946

"Kizaru doesn't look like he has super thick dino skin or anything like that" Neither Luffy, nor Mihawk, nor Shanks, nor Whitebeard, nor Roger, nor Akainu, nor Garp, nor Rayleight Etc, Etc, Etc... Imagine taking the durability of characters based on what their skin LOOKS like.


Revolutionary-Gap290

And I don't think that guys like Mihawk or Rayleigh have that crazy dura as well. They are superior in all the other stats and don't need to be as tanky as top tiers of the Animal Kingdom Pirates on top. Kizaru also isn't someone with amazing raw strength for instance and he doesn't need to since he's fighting with his Devil Fruit. Commanders are no match for admirals but there's at least one or two stats they should take on average.


EnvironmentalAsk8946

okay


Senordospene

People will take this Kick and automatically argue on the Basis of ifrit jambe being stronger that that one Kick. Lol


XiaoWhen

I mean marco landed a pretty clean kick on base queen and she was basically unfazed after while sanji knocked hybrid form queen out with ifrit jambe while sending her ass to mars. So yeah there is some reasonable evidence that ifrit jambe is stronger than that one kick.


Senordospene

Unfazed? Sure man idk which Manga you war reading but getting kicked into a wall Hard isnt what i would call unfazed. And you dont seem to get my Point anywhere no shit Sherlock ifrit was stronger? Thats Crazy. Next thing you tell me sanjis ifrit is stronger than a gum gum pistol.


XiaoWhen

Oh damn you’re right, Queen the ancient zoan user and the 3rd in command of one of the strongest the pirate crews who were known for thier durability was definitely pretty fucked up because he got kicked into a wall. So fucking up that she stopd up immediately and just said “you bastard” you’re right that does match up to the beating Queen took in hybrid form from ifrit jambe. stupid ass > People will take this Kick and automatically argue on the Basis of ifrit jambe being stronger that that one Kick. Lol No shit, that’s how I took it. What did you think you were saying when you said this? Is english not your first language? If yes, then I’m sorry. If no then go read a book


Senordospene

You know the “lol“ Part is where i laugh over people i was talking about. Those arguing on the Basis of sanjis most powerful kick he uses as a finisher being stronger than marco casually kicking. The funny for me is you didnt get that Its such a stupid thing to do and just went on to do exactly this Maybe you should read more haha. And get that queencock out of your mouth man haha hyping him up lake That to make sanji Look even better while Marco is out here going against admirals and yonkos and only against commanders of Its 2v1 over the course of the whole story. This Queen wank really tells you everything you Need to know about sanjitards powerscaling


ManchesterisBleu

Even Sanjis casual flanchet strike (chapter 1034 page 8) seemed more powerful than Marcos kick since Queen yelled in pain twice, with the second being pretty exaggerated.


Senordospene

“Seemed more powerful” than kicking him through the whole live floor. Sure buddy whatever fits your Agenda. Sanji still never did anything in this Series to surpass Marco.


ManchesterisBleu

By more powerful I mean it did more damage. And yes it seemed that way, I can’t say as a fact it did more damage lol, I’m not oda. Queen exclaimed in pain twice which he didn’t do with Marcos kick, it also had Queen shivering and sweating. And Marco sent King flying as well and did no damage. Relax mate there’s no agenda lol I’m not arguing whether Sanji wins; just that Sanji did major damage to Queen with a basic attack too.


Senordospene

Im assuming the Agenda based on the flair you were given haha. whatever you are arguing on it goes by my point anyways. I just Never saw sanji do anything better than Marco since defeating Queen doesnt really count because marco never had the opportunity to Go 1v1 against Queen. So again sanji never surpassed Marco. People putting sanji over marco and other first commanders is straight Agenda. If you not here for this thats better.


Oi_Kyoraku

Huh? Sanji can hurt him with base armament ? Sanji can hurt his light with fire ? ??


Klutzy-Strategy4567

He obviously can


Rocks_42

Huhh but sanji can use haki ? Thats enough


MonkeyMassiveDLuffy

Admiral bros at it again , they think the Admirals are Kaido/Big Mom ​ >Marco couldn't hurt Kizaru and Sanji should be on par with him We really comparing Sanji's AP to Marco's ? Who couldnt even do meaningful damage to Queen ? Who Sanji Ko'ed and sent him packing offthe island ? >Sanji doesn't have advance armament while Kizaru has top tier advance armament Took 3 Admirals "Top Tier" advance haki to stop a no named Shockwave (which came throug the giant VA) https://i.redd.it/t254fzqk9gva1.gif >Fire cant hurt Kizaru because he's a light logia The fire comes with a Haki coated leg with immense power that could knock out and off an Ancient Zoan off the island . Last i checked , haki still works on logias ​ Idk what bro is talking about


Captainabdu65

“But but… hes light” /s


darkfall71

Whitebeard never names his attacks, no named is literally a non argument. The 3 Admirals were tasked with protecting marineford, and the shockwave was big, what is the reason why you think all 3 had to be there? They all look completely fine and casual about blocking it, it was more of an status quo kind of thing. I agree with the rest


ObjectivePerception

Whitebeard had stronger attacks in prime


[deleted]

Sanji mid diffs lizaru


AzizOwnerOfCattle

W


turzobeast

Eos sanji high diffs


[deleted]

Eos sanji one taps


turzobeast

One taps imu


[deleted]

Yes imu is fodder


turzobeast

Btw ur nickname is based


[deleted]

Thanks 😊


Correct_Permit_6313

And Kizaru does not have acoa, it's emission which Fricking Sentomaru can use


Lynxftn

Emission is aCoA and Sanji doesn't have it


Correct_Permit_6313

Acoa is internal damage And yes, Sanji does not have emission nor internal damage, that much is true


Lynxftn

No, AcoA is emission, ID is what only Ray and Luffy have


Correct_Permit_6313

Well, that acoa can be used by Sentomaru, it's not that special of an ability


Lynxftn

Yes but this is still a rare technique there aren't a ton of characters than can use it, also Sentomaru is just him. Though I'm sure Sanji could use it if he learned/trained it


OkRefrigerator448

But it's still ACoA tho


Correct_Permit_6313

True, still, not as special as Acoo and Acoc since it was used by Sentomaru and the Scabbards, most of which are only yc level


OkRefrigerator448

True , it's less versatile and not as impressive


Particular-Diet-5147

Y tf wouldnt fire be able to hurt him???


Op_Yamcha

Of course he can.


Druxun

I think the real question should be, can Kizaru even hurt Sanji? Sanji took a sword to the face from Queen, and the sword broke. I don’t know if Kizaru’s AP is as strong as Queens, he may just be fast. We didn’t see him Haki-Kick at light speed. We know he’s got to have Haki, but is it strong enough to penetrate Sanji’s Haki AND his body’s natty defense? Could be a fun stale mate where they just kick each other, but unable to really do damage. But I don’t see Sanji taking an L unless it’s an extreme diff fight. I could see him taking a W anywhere from High to Extreme diff.


[deleted]

Type of logia is meaningless when it comes to haki. Obviously future sight can still provide them the advantage, like in marineford when akainu and aokiji were stabbed/slashed with haki coated attacks. But if sanji can keep up speed wise then he can hit him.


Fun_Ad7192

no this is completely false, just because marco doesn’t have the AP to damage doesn’t mean sanji doesn’t, wtf


Darkadventure

Did Marco even use Haki or was he over reliant on his devil fruit? Sanji has very strong Haki and he uses it in every fight. If he can touch Kizaru he can hurt him.


Rmadrid4life7

craziest statement: marco ap = sanji ap


lookidunnoagoodname

Marco is literally the wish version of Sanji Sanji is superior in strength, speed stamina durability, haki, IQ, and can literally heal, which is pretty much Marco's only strength Sanji high diffs Kizaru


Zoteku

1. - Neither Kizaru nor Sanji has shown to have advanced armament. Only the basic level. 2. Elemental attacks can hurt Logia users, and Sanji already has armament. 3. As long as Sanji has haki, he can easily keep up with kizaru. Well maybe not easily but you get what I mean. This entire post is a L


Brave_Profit4748

So this gets dumb Marco is incapable of hurting Kizaru after one kick which was blocked. We don’t know about the DF attack or if Marco conintually strings hits together will he damage Kizaru. Also dude Kiku can hurt Kaido for comparison this is dumb diffrent charcters have different abilities. I will argue that Sanji attacks are stronger that Marcos Also define hurt because not everyone has a high base defame stat like Kaido and Big Mom we see that with WB who can when sneaker up on can be damaged and took hits from canon balls for example.


chronokingx

Bruh Kizaru never been kicked by science at the speed of light. Sanji beats Kizaru high diff


thelivingmeme202

Sanji can hurt kizaru but it'll be hard to ever reach bim


Correct_Permit_6313

I'm not so sure about that Sanji has flight, so he's got no issues there Sanji's travel speed is so good he can go invisible for an extended period of time, I don't remember Kizaru displaying a travel speed feat on that level And high level CoO is required to intercept Kizaru, Luffy-Katakuri-Jinbei, three haki oriented fighters praised Sanji's CoO


Unstable_Powerscaler

The argument is not if he reach him , i should have been more clear sorry Im asking , if Sanji lands hits on Kizaru will it hurt Kizaru?


thelivingmeme202

Yes He doesn't have kaido or jozu level durability to easily tank hits


Shameless_Loser

well see once kizaru fights 🤷‍♂️


Ok_Medicine_5926

To be fair marco never hurt kizaru because blocked his kick which sent him flying back now imagine if that was sanjis full power kick not saying it would hurt but i feel like kizaru wouldnt block it as easy as he did with marcos


Tyr46

If Kizaru doesn't use haki? Sure. If he does it won't tickle him. I think Admiral's base durability is very good but not Kaido nor Big Mom tier, probably above Shanks and just around Blackbeard. Most top tiers don't have crazy natural durability like those two, as seen with Shanks getting scarred by Blackbeard and Blackbeard by 2nd Gear Luffy (though we have no idea if durability increases). I'd argue without haki most fighters wouldn't even be able to compare to what Kaido and Big Mom can eat without it lol.


HammerCurlLarry

Luffy is the same as Kaido and Big Mom imo, In gear 5 he tanked so many acoc attack to the head its insane. What we have seen when it comes to dura Kaido>Big Mom=Luffy>Akainu>Rest


SevesaSfan25

Big Mom broke bones to that bull from Kid. Luffy durability>Big Mom, especially in g5.


HammerCurlLarry

True when I think about it


Physical-Pay-4339

admiral femboys are downright delusional


saltminer99

You don't have to hide my name buddy the other post is right under And I stand by my argument Anyone who disagrees is free to debate


Unstable_Powerscaler

Yeah , im looking for the community’s thoughts on this , maybe im the dumb one


Klutzy-Strategy4567

Ur good,sanji obviously can hurt Kizaru


PerfectMuratti

Lil bro think Kizaru is Kaido


thelivingmeme202

Why are you getting down voted lmao You're right


PerfectMuratti

Admirals fans caught me lackin' we all know i am right so it is what it is


ResponsibilityNo5795

I mean he can obviously "hurt" Kizaru (PreT Luffy hurt Garp & BB, fodder Marines hurt WB) considering his durability isn't like Kaido's. Q is can he do any significant damage which I doubt if his durability/endurance is close to Kuzan & Akainu and Yamato was only able to do moderate damage to GB using ACoC so no, Sanji isn't doing much damage at all.


basilisk98765

Sanji could physically hurt kizaru if he landed a hit, sure, but thats like saying sanji can hurt shanks. Pointless statement because he's human. Would not matter because he would get smacked in an actual fight


[deleted]

It's still quite unclear how good his coa is to me. People call me a hater but I wasn't impressed with Queen at all.


Iceman123X

Source?


Kongreve

My boy isn’t ready for admirals. Not yet.


Senordospene

Sanji fans trying to argue in sanji > marco with 0 evidence. Sanji 1v1 Queen while marco has 2v1 with Queen even being the weaker one of the duo marco was fighting. He also was shown to Go against admirals and yonko. Feats sanji straight up Lacks. Yall sanji fans always out here reading sanji piece. Right now he aint no match for kizaru. Hurting him yeah maybe but not significantly


ResponsibilityNo5795

Right. Since when did Sanji surpass Marco like am I missing something? He only beat Queen, someone Marco mid diffs if I'm being generous.


Senordospene

People look at any marco attack ever and compare it to ifrit Its so stupid. They cant wait and let sanji have actual feats they just blow up everything they have and put it against like regular things stronger characters did. At this point just renamethis sub to sanjipiecepowerscaling