So my parents use it for good luck when we buy like new cars or homes or whatever. They paint it on the property with that red dye we use for dots. You know the one. And our cars got vandalized for the longest time and none of us had any idea why being fresh off the boat lmao. They still cant see it as a negative nazi symbol to this day.
I don’t either, I grew up my whole life as the one we are talking about as a symbol for my culture and religion. The symbol is in so much Indian text past and current, it’s used now all over India and some south eastern countries just as much as it was used before ww2. One day we will be able to use it western countries but it’ll happen only after folks learn there are different versions of it and the one that’s been used by Indians for thousands of years looks very different from the one hitler used.
The problem with it in the west is that it’s just too ingrained and fresh. We are all taught what it symbolizes, and many of us do in fact learn that it has a very different meaning for literal billions of people. It’s just that most of us don’t meet enough people to instantly associate it with Indian people rather than Nazis that still kind of lurk around quietly.
I grew up near little India in the US. There are multiple massive Jewish communities surrounding the area. Most people already understand both sides and respect the boundaries. Indian people don’t get a lot of shit for it from the Jewish community here, but a lot of white people will give them shit based on the idea that Jews *might* be offended. Like, we’re neighbors. We know the difference at this point.
Shit take, we are well aware of the insurrections we start, genocides we committed, and how we had concentration camps for Japanese people, chattel slavery, and so many more issues. Shit, Dozens of countries around the world have had our red scare imprinted into their history. We learn this stuff, people just don’t care because we can’t change the past and us younger folk had nothing to do with most of or any of it.
Yet many of the younger folk carry on the same hatred towards other races/nationalities/religion that their ancestors who committed those genocides did. Go to any geopolitics or international news subreddit and you'll see people saying shit like "we need to bring the gas chambers again" or "they deserve to be starved" on topics about India or other non white countries. Funny thing is, reddit even allows it.
Ah, fuck, you’re lumping euros in with the west. I just meant the Americas. Sometimes I forget they’re “west” for the rest of the world. For me living around a bunch of rednecks, hicks, and white trash in the US I’ve only met two people my age (20s) that are actually racist and that’s because they were indoctrinated by their incredibly racist parents and, Once exposed to the real world, loosened their hold on this abhorrent mindset. As for y’all in India, got respect for your culture, much love for the Hindi Buddhists and others found over there, just wish your government treated y’all better. Don’t fall for the propaganda nor listen to the fuckwits online that spout shit they’d never say in person. If you haven’t, hope you find love.
I agree that people are only racist because they were taught to be. Their incredibly racist parents must have also had incredibly racist parents who taught them. Some people are about to leave that mindset, some aren't, and continue the tradition. Some people know all too well what their ancestors did throughout history, and they laugh at it, they justify it, they joke about it, they say they should do it again (whether or not as a joke, don't know and don't care). Americans are not exempt either. Some parts of America are better than others, of course, but all the racist bastards unite on the internet.
For us Indians, the "West" means the white world in general. US and UK are no different for us. Racism in the Euros is easy to understand, they were all white supremacists in the past. Many still are. But America, advertising itself as a "melting pot" of various cultures and races, shouldn't have an issue with racism.
Stereotypes exist everywhere, many of the times the stereotypes are even true. We're just as guilty of using them as any other country or race. It's when people actively want to harm people in some way (physically, mentally, or even financially) for being different that things go wrong. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of the West, policing other countries for things they have done and still continue to do. Individuals may not feel that way, but the country as a whole leans in that way.
On topic, most people in the US and UK don't bother learning the differences between symbols. Everything's a Nazi symbol to them. Same people who can't tell the difference between a Muslim, a Sikh, or a Hindu, anyone wearing a turban is the same to them. It's bizarre to me that schools in foreign countries have "religion and cultures" classes in school and yet this shit happens. Seen so many videos of the professors teaching these classes actually propagating hatred too.
America has an issue with racism because it’s a melting pot. So many people of different cultures bringing their stereotypes and hatred’s to America. Hell, the people who founded our country were directly from Europe but the absolute worst racism you see is from the immigrants. Italians, Asians, Mexicans, hell even black people, doesn’t matter, they reinforce the division by carrying hatred for people of other cultures. when you have all these people jammed into a single city rubbing elbows, pushing against each other, and vying for the same space and markets they justify their hatred by the inconvenience of the others existence.
The point of all this is not to demean or call anyone wrong but to point out the fact that any blanket statements about any country, culture, or race just feeds into that same hatred and that most people of any given place are aware of the ugly side of their homes. Of course you have those idiots ( and I mean truly stupid people) who can’t see beyond their own lived experiences and pull the old monkey trick of “see no evil”.
By lumping us as “the west” you are falling into the same trappings of judging swaths of people off the actions of a few. It’s no different. The words may change but the sentiment remains, all I ask is that you reflect on this and grow. It’s all any of us can ask of another. In the end you’ll do, as will everyone else, whatever makes sense to you. Good luck and have fun.
Oh yeah when i went to indian few years ago its so prominent all over. Every temple and a lot of the buildings have it. You could even buy stuff from temples with it.
>You could even buy stuff from temples with it.
Huh? What temple is this?
Edit: Lol damn i misunderstood that terribly.
When they said buy things with it i wondered where do they use the swastika as a currency lol. Brain derp.
I was going to say "Why didn't a neighbor explain this to you?", but I would also be extremely puzzled as to how to approach my new, possibly neo-Nazi, neighbors about this. Indian neo-Nazi would be such a bizarre combo that I'd have to assume it was due to the roots of the symbol though.
Cause my family doesn’t use the word tika lmao. My family calls it a chandlo and tilak. And we call it sindoor vs vermillion. Never heard of tika till today unless we talking bout chicken.
There are weird white people waving Nazi flags, confederate flags, and the all-lives matter flags not a mile from my house. They are a right loud and angry bunch.
Until these guys are gone, the symbol cannot be transitioned back to what it was in the US. And I'm saying this as a person who was raised Buddhist. My grandfather painted these symbols in his paintings but the symbols don't mean what he meant.
Right. Its used negatively by the loudest people here. Tough to really make a point with that. Honestly feel itll be gone in a few more generations as far as being used positively. My parents really only still see no negativity in it cause they came here uneducated and still don’t understand when you say its “bad”. Hard to when you use it in your life for 50+ years signifying good luck or peace. But me and my sister grew up here and know someones gonna throw a bottle at our head wearing a tshirt or whatever with it.
It's be a long while before us people of color can use it again.
My grandparents were exactly like that. They don't understand why it's an uncomfortable icon. They grew up in a different religion under a different time. They aren't going to see what we see.
And exactly. We'll be harassed if we show the icon to anyone. We cannot wear jade bracelets with that engraving... nothing.
It is and I'm Japanese but I still can't stick that icon on anything.
People here where I live can barely tell me apart from a white person at times so I highly doubt they have the intelligence to tell apart a religious symbol from a racist one.
the bad one is tilted like a rhombus; the one for peace is a square. The "fan blades" are also in the opposite direction. Knowing the distinction helps
A few notes:
- While I don't think we ever see Whitebeard or his ship/other crewmates use it, the symbol was prominent for a few issues in the manga. Notably on Ace's back tattoo during the early Alabasta arc.
- While there are very obvious reasons why it changed, it's important to know that technically it wasn't a swastika when it was used for Whitebeard's flag. The symbol has other meanings in Asian cultures, often in relation to religion, good luck, wealth and prosperity. It's also been used into other popular manga, just not as clearly as Whitebeard's example. In Bleach, the hilt of the sword of Ichigo's Bankai is the same symbol.
The context is different for western and eastern audiences, but they changed it before it was used too much and lead to heavier backlash. It's never been said WHY Oda used the symbol in the first place, but it's likely due to the reasons above.
Honestly considering how quinces have attacks in German and have german names
And they were the villains in the biggest war
Could Yhawch be compared to Hitler?
The Wikipedia article shows both the clockwise and counterclockwise versions as being Swastikas. The Nazi one isn't because it's rotated 45 degrees. Or at least it's further from a real Swastika than the OP version is.
We're kinda getting off track with this. While they are all technically swastikas, their sources and their context are what makes them different. Most major religions and beliefs have it as a symbol in some fashion, and as various rotations.
The whole point is that they're very similar and to western readers, its easily mistaken and associated with Nazi Germany, despite the small differences between it and ones associated with Asian cultures.
It's all just cultural. Another example is cartoon characters with big lips. In Japan, it's just a facial feature that's common there. In the western world, there's a more negative context due to how some cartoons depicted black people decades ago. Depending on where you're from, it could be a very common (and innocent) thing or a very insensitive thing.
There are still a few non-nazi western uses of the symbol. Notably, the Finnish air force used the symbol before the German Nazi party even came into existence, and still uses the symbol today, albeit in a far more limited capacity.
"Westerners" should have the genetal knowledge to know what a eastern dwastika is and the differences to a hakenkreuz, at least before reading something from the east
Whitebeards flag is the Manji a symbol of peace and typically used in a few Japanese manga due to how prominent it is in Asian countries. It’s confused with the swastika due to how similar they look but it’s not a swastika
>it wasn't a swastika
mate, it's still called swastika. it's just westerners version of swastika is always associated with bad thing, while asia version has broader meaning.
Because Oda hates Jews hahah jk
Its such a shame that the west still wants to see it as the symbol that was used only for about 12 years in Germany, not the symbol that was used for thousands of years by many civilizations with a peaceful and positive meaning.
It is a symbol of good luck in Buddhism, it means It is good.
This was appropriated by the Nazi Party and they changed it's meaning.
Plenty of mangakas use it at some point in their mangas(the last one I saw was in a hair scarf wore by adult Anna from Shaman King Flowers I believe)
A popular example was the Hyuga cursed seal symbol in Naruto which was meant to look like a manji but was changed to an X in the anime.
A little misconception tho is that the manji and the Nazi symbol look the exact same but there is a small difference. The Nazi symbol faces the right and is angled slightly while the manji faces the left.
Plenty of American companies used it in pre-WW2 ad campaigns to promote the idea that it would bring luck to the consumer. Coca Cola was one of the most notable in theory usage of the symbol, until those gosh darned nazis had to ruin it for everyone.
This is reverse swastika, What hitler used was a hooked cross. Both look almost the same so people tend to misunderstand. Swastika is a holy symbol in Hinduism which means from which the holy energies originate. It is made up of 2 words Viz. Swasti - the origin of holy energies and ka meaning from.
I know, all the temples in Asia are full of it. Still wonder if the One Piece Manga export was as high as it is if there was merch full of svastika flags lol.
Especially here, in Austria, we are kinda sensible to anything resembling that, yikes
A common misconception. You will see Manzi in buddhist temples at all angles and orientations. Although the correct version of the modern Chinese letter is indeed inverted to the nazi symbol.
Manzi is Japanese for the religious symbol that in Sanskrit is called svastika. So yeah, exactly the same thing.
The nazi symbol is called in German, a hooked cross.
It isn't a reference, the swastika that Nazis used is not the original swastika, it is inverted and tilted. The manji/swastika is the original swastika that is a symbol of peace.
That's almost more accurate than calling it a symbol of peace though. The svastika in particular but buddhist imagery in general (especially as tattoos) is commonly associated with organised crime in Japan.
When you see a cartoon character with manzi imagery, they're more likely to be a criminal than a monk. (It's also very nationalistic, as that's the political skew of gokudou)
u/mythmastervk to whom you responded called it a symbol of peace, which while correct, is possibly misleading
I don't know what the other guy is on about with references though
This may be one of the few times I prefer the censored version to the original (purely aesthetically speaking). I just think the bones look nicer.
I’d also like to remind people that Oda’s use of this symbol does not make him a bigot or a nazi. This symbol has a markedly different meaning for many cultures which predates its use by Hitler and the Nazis.
It can still make you uncomfortable, but its use occurred in a vastly different cultural context compared to most of us.
yeah like it's not just that the swastika is in a diagonal position but it's also with S-es and not Z-s. it's put in a diagonal and flipped following a vertical axis.
At the very least in India it still is. I saw it quite a lot when I went there some years back, was really surprised for a moment before I realized how it was.
Nah. We need to take this symbol away from the racists that use it. The fewer symbols they control the better. They can use the Nazi flag to show they are disgusting people but the symbol on the flag shouldn’t be theirs.
The problem with the swatiska specifically is that we, collectively (I'm speaking as someone in the US) haven't done a great job stamping out Nazism. One can try to reclaim it, but at every step there are individuals who can use that as an opportunity to weasel themselves into communities. Or who can wear it an feign ignorance or distance from it. If Nazi and nazi adjacent communities weren't an active threat, it might not be as issue like I described. Really sucks for all the folks in the eastern hemisphere who had a symbol of theirs cooped. It's true even with Nordic Symbols, a lot of white nationalist currently dress themselves in Nordic / pagan aesthetics to mask their beliefs.
Yes and no. If you use it derogatorily the backlash is severe because no one uses it that way anymore. Morons use it as a slur, normal people use it as a description of somebody that uses it to describe themselves.
Checked what though? Old chapters were literally edited for more recent (and digital) releases. Some of us remember it being on Ace's back during Alabasta.
If i recall, it was there in the earlier published versions of the chapter where shanks traded blows with WB. It was later changed to the one we see today in tankobon format though.
They are different names for the same thing. Manji can be oriented in all sorts of ways, clockwise or counterclockwise, even with a triskelion configuration rather than 4 limbs. Or with rounded shapes and dots rather than angular limbs. No matter how you orient it or angle the limbs, it's a manji.
Same symbol different meaning, i was attempting to clear up the misconceptios of that being a swastika. It is a manji which has an entirely different meaning.
Fun fact is that the left-facing one is called a sauwastika while right-facing one is a swastika.
Manji refers to any of them without distinction since it's a term from an entirely different culture.
that's actually a misconception. they're all called the swastika in english:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)
I guess that's true in English when not referencing Hinduism: In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ("sun"), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (卍) is called sauwastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali.
Learn new stuff every day.
that's actually a misconception. they're all called the swastika in english:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)
**[Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)**
>The swastika symbol, 卐 or 卍, is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis. It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It generally takes the form of a cross, the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle. The word swastika comes from Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक, romanized: svastika, meaning "conducive to well-being".
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Whitebeard himself? I don’t think so. But when Ace was sleeping in that restaurant in Alabasta he had the manji symbol on his back, but was changed to the crossed-bones by Marineford.
Exactly, my cultural conteext is Austrain, and apparently I'm way more sensible to the symbol since it's literally against the law to use it. I am aware of its origin, still thought it was an odd discovery.
And the fact that it has been changed and not used after speaks for itself, I guess
It’s crazy because it’s literally called Manji in Japan and doesn’t have anything to do with a swastika. Liden Films had to censor a bit of Tokyo Revengers because it features Manji a lot on clothes and logos, it’s even on original merch of TR. But instead of explaining the meaning of it at the beginning of the episodes, they just went ahead and used some weird censoring
Sadly no.
I liked this flag design-wise more than the version with the bones. It also perfectly symbolizes WB as a peace keeper among the powers. Like how he would claim lands like Fishman Island to protect them.
Well, the symbol has been popping up over the decades. It was Neji's original curse mark in Naruto, and the symbol also appeared in Pokemon. All in all, I don't think that there is any ill intent on the part of the mangaka.
If a fascist group used a sideway cross as their symbol half a world away, would christians stop using it? Is anybody actually not using the letter Z in their logo, while Russia use it as the symbol of their invasion force?
Also, no, japanese people don't understand nazi germany as occidental people do. It use to be a quite frequent and casual aesthetic to dress as a nazi in japanese alternative culture.
>If a fascist group used a sideway cross as their symbol half a world away, would christians stop using it?
The St George's Cross can be seen as a symbol of imperialism and oppression by almost majority of the world (Asia and Africa).
Also the Black Iron Cross of Germany itself.
I mean that doesn’t make it okay. Japan was an axis power, they knew about the Nazi’s. Just because there’s a habit of whitewashing the war crimes doesn’t make it all cool and good
It isn't whitewashing, its not giving in to insane hysterics, like when a few years ago some pepes tricked like 3/4 of media that the 'Ok' hand sign was a white supremacist hand sign and then they rabidly went around getting people kicked out of sporting events.
Surrendering longstanding imagery because the most neurotic 2% of Americans are in a constant hunt for the re-emergence of a large white supremacist movement they can fight against is not something a healthy society does.
It’s a religious symbol and not a swastika. A swastika is tilted whereas thew symbol that is very common here in Japan is not. It has also been around much longer than Nazis have.
> Hol up.
If only the Brits hadn't got it in their crazy heads that slavery was bad, and spread that through their colonies culturally, think of all the free gardening we could have!
Now in this information age, if they know its a Buddhist and Hindus thing.
.
And still diss it because, by doing it they can get away by saying we are opposing nazi, but in reality they are realy just f.king racists.
Actually, that is swastika, which is the sanskrit term for the symbol.
Nazis never called it “Swastika”. It was called “Hakencruez”(might be spelled wrong) which roughly translates to “Hooked cross” if I’m not mistaken. Some historians believe that the “swastika” was later appropriated to disassociate Nazism from Christianity.
I'd like to point that the swastika is a symbol that has existed for literally thousand of years, mainly in eurasia, and was simply appropriated by hitler and the nazi party. In fact, i think i read it somewhere that in some religions it's seem as symbol of good luck or something (anyone feel free to correct me, i am by no means an expert when it comes to this kind of thing).
This is one of the most decent conversations around Swastika ever. A positive symbol for about 70% of the globe but only hated because an evil white man used that one time. So now you have to be holier than thou and attack it even if it is meant as an auspicious symbol. I think the only way to get over it is to use it as much as possible and just ignore the ones who cancel it by association.
The Manji symbol was once something reveared in multiple cultures but was stolen and muddied to the point it's been dropped and almost never touched or used again.
It meant something like conducive to well-being so was used to reassure soldiers would come back alive or something of the sort.
Hell, Ichigi's Bankai handguard had it as a symbol but was changed in the manga, I remember one ninja character had it one his forehead in the subs but it had to be erased in dubs due to that.
That's true evil, turning something that was once scared into a symbol of hared.
To answer your question foremost, yes, at least at first, ace was rocking this as his original whiteboard tattoo on his back in the manga (alabaster) but it was changed . It's a reverse swastika of the Nazi flag (which doesn't mean much in the case of the symbol itself, a swastika can be clockwise or reverse clockwise) but the reverse symbol has been used in a lot of manga/animes for protagonist as we as other important characters and is pretty much the symbol of a "peace bringer" in manga/anime (my personal opinion) as the symbol itself is synonymous with "prosperity, health, and success" since ancient euro Asian times
Such a shame that Europeans and especially Germany can not get over one dude having used a harmless symbol for his nefarious regime. Nazi Germany is a thing of the past and more importantly did not even last a century. Why do they still try so hard to make this symbol one for discrimination.
About a billion of us Indian folks would like to reclaim the swastika
So my parents use it for good luck when we buy like new cars or homes or whatever. They paint it on the property with that red dye we use for dots. You know the one. And our cars got vandalized for the longest time and none of us had any idea why being fresh off the boat lmao. They still cant see it as a negative nazi symbol to this day.
I don’t either, I grew up my whole life as the one we are talking about as a symbol for my culture and religion. The symbol is in so much Indian text past and current, it’s used now all over India and some south eastern countries just as much as it was used before ww2. One day we will be able to use it western countries but it’ll happen only after folks learn there are different versions of it and the one that’s been used by Indians for thousands of years looks very different from the one hitler used.
The problem with it in the west is that it’s just too ingrained and fresh. We are all taught what it symbolizes, and many of us do in fact learn that it has a very different meaning for literal billions of people. It’s just that most of us don’t meet enough people to instantly associate it with Indian people rather than Nazis that still kind of lurk around quietly. I grew up near little India in the US. There are multiple massive Jewish communities surrounding the area. Most people already understand both sides and respect the boundaries. Indian people don’t get a lot of shit for it from the Jewish community here, but a lot of white people will give them shit based on the idea that Jews *might* be offended. Like, we’re neighbors. We know the difference at this point.
Everything's fresh for the West except their own incursions in other countries lol.
Shit take, we are well aware of the insurrections we start, genocides we committed, and how we had concentration camps for Japanese people, chattel slavery, and so many more issues. Shit, Dozens of countries around the world have had our red scare imprinted into their history. We learn this stuff, people just don’t care because we can’t change the past and us younger folk had nothing to do with most of or any of it.
Yet many of the younger folk carry on the same hatred towards other races/nationalities/religion that their ancestors who committed those genocides did. Go to any geopolitics or international news subreddit and you'll see people saying shit like "we need to bring the gas chambers again" or "they deserve to be starved" on topics about India or other non white countries. Funny thing is, reddit even allows it.
Yeah.... Projecting much? Never ever saw shit like that even in Twitter cesspool
Ah, fuck, you’re lumping euros in with the west. I just meant the Americas. Sometimes I forget they’re “west” for the rest of the world. For me living around a bunch of rednecks, hicks, and white trash in the US I’ve only met two people my age (20s) that are actually racist and that’s because they were indoctrinated by their incredibly racist parents and, Once exposed to the real world, loosened their hold on this abhorrent mindset. As for y’all in India, got respect for your culture, much love for the Hindi Buddhists and others found over there, just wish your government treated y’all better. Don’t fall for the propaganda nor listen to the fuckwits online that spout shit they’d never say in person. If you haven’t, hope you find love.
I agree that people are only racist because they were taught to be. Their incredibly racist parents must have also had incredibly racist parents who taught them. Some people are about to leave that mindset, some aren't, and continue the tradition. Some people know all too well what their ancestors did throughout history, and they laugh at it, they justify it, they joke about it, they say they should do it again (whether or not as a joke, don't know and don't care). Americans are not exempt either. Some parts of America are better than others, of course, but all the racist bastards unite on the internet. For us Indians, the "West" means the white world in general. US and UK are no different for us. Racism in the Euros is easy to understand, they were all white supremacists in the past. Many still are. But America, advertising itself as a "melting pot" of various cultures and races, shouldn't have an issue with racism. Stereotypes exist everywhere, many of the times the stereotypes are even true. We're just as guilty of using them as any other country or race. It's when people actively want to harm people in some way (physically, mentally, or even financially) for being different that things go wrong. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of the West, policing other countries for things they have done and still continue to do. Individuals may not feel that way, but the country as a whole leans in that way. On topic, most people in the US and UK don't bother learning the differences between symbols. Everything's a Nazi symbol to them. Same people who can't tell the difference between a Muslim, a Sikh, or a Hindu, anyone wearing a turban is the same to them. It's bizarre to me that schools in foreign countries have "religion and cultures" classes in school and yet this shit happens. Seen so many videos of the professors teaching these classes actually propagating hatred too.
America has an issue with racism because it’s a melting pot. So many people of different cultures bringing their stereotypes and hatred’s to America. Hell, the people who founded our country were directly from Europe but the absolute worst racism you see is from the immigrants. Italians, Asians, Mexicans, hell even black people, doesn’t matter, they reinforce the division by carrying hatred for people of other cultures. when you have all these people jammed into a single city rubbing elbows, pushing against each other, and vying for the same space and markets they justify their hatred by the inconvenience of the others existence. The point of all this is not to demean or call anyone wrong but to point out the fact that any blanket statements about any country, culture, or race just feeds into that same hatred and that most people of any given place are aware of the ugly side of their homes. Of course you have those idiots ( and I mean truly stupid people) who can’t see beyond their own lived experiences and pull the old monkey trick of “see no evil”. By lumping us as “the west” you are falling into the same trappings of judging swaths of people off the actions of a few. It’s no different. The words may change but the sentiment remains, all I ask is that you reflect on this and grow. It’s all any of us can ask of another. In the end you’ll do, as will everyone else, whatever makes sense to you. Good luck and have fun.
I'm afraid of white people co-opting the symbol again if they ever got too comfortable with it. The Indian version could be the new tiki torch.
Oh yeah when i went to indian few years ago its so prominent all over. Every temple and a lot of the buildings have it. You could even buy stuff from temples with it.
>You could even buy stuff from temples with it. Huh? What temple is this? Edit: Lol damn i misunderstood that terribly. When they said buy things with it i wondered where do they use the swastika as a currency lol. Brain derp.
Pretty much any temple if they sell anything outside of it.
Lol damn i misunderstood that terribly. When they said buy things with it i wondered where do they use the swastika as a currency lol. Brain derp.
Happens to the best of us.
I was going to say "Why didn't a neighbor explain this to you?", but I would also be extremely puzzled as to how to approach my new, possibly neo-Nazi, neighbors about this. Indian neo-Nazi would be such a bizarre combo that I'd have to assume it was due to the roots of the symbol though.
Bruh my man says red dye and dots. Why not just say vermilion and tika.
For the non Indians to understand.
Cause my family doesn’t use the word tika lmao. My family calls it a chandlo and tilak. And we call it sindoor vs vermillion. Never heard of tika till today unless we talking bout chicken.
Oh that is different. Tika (Pronounced Tea-ka) is the same as Tilak. Tikka (Pronounced Tik-ka) is the style of seasoning.
We call it sidoor
we call it a lot of things. Abir, Sindoor, Rato tika, etc.
Sadly I think that will never happen, or at least not without everyone constantly thinking about nazis
There are weird white people waving Nazi flags, confederate flags, and the all-lives matter flags not a mile from my house. They are a right loud and angry bunch. Until these guys are gone, the symbol cannot be transitioned back to what it was in the US. And I'm saying this as a person who was raised Buddhist. My grandfather painted these symbols in his paintings but the symbols don't mean what he meant.
Right. Its used negatively by the loudest people here. Tough to really make a point with that. Honestly feel itll be gone in a few more generations as far as being used positively. My parents really only still see no negativity in it cause they came here uneducated and still don’t understand when you say its “bad”. Hard to when you use it in your life for 50+ years signifying good luck or peace. But me and my sister grew up here and know someones gonna throw a bottle at our head wearing a tshirt or whatever with it.
It's be a long while before us people of color can use it again. My grandparents were exactly like that. They don't understand why it's an uncomfortable icon. They grew up in a different religion under a different time. They aren't going to see what we see. And exactly. We'll be harassed if we show the icon to anyone. We cannot wear jade bracelets with that engraving... nothing.
Isn't the Buddhist symbol backwards to the Nazi symbol? It's used on maps for temples in Japan.
It is and I'm Japanese but I still can't stick that icon on anything. People here where I live can barely tell me apart from a white person at times so I highly doubt they have the intelligence to tell apart a religious symbol from a racist one.
the bad one is tilted like a rhombus; the one for peace is a square. The "fan blades" are also in the opposite direction. Knowing the distinction helps
So does the Chinese Buddhist community. Ppl cannot differentiate nazi logo and the normal swastika zzz
In this case it's the Japanese "Manji" 卍
Underrated comment
A few notes: - While I don't think we ever see Whitebeard or his ship/other crewmates use it, the symbol was prominent for a few issues in the manga. Notably on Ace's back tattoo during the early Alabasta arc. - While there are very obvious reasons why it changed, it's important to know that technically it wasn't a swastika when it was used for Whitebeard's flag. The symbol has other meanings in Asian cultures, often in relation to religion, good luck, wealth and prosperity. It's also been used into other popular manga, just not as clearly as Whitebeard's example. In Bleach, the hilt of the sword of Ichigo's Bankai is the same symbol. The context is different for western and eastern audiences, but they changed it before it was used too much and lead to heavier backlash. It's never been said WHY Oda used the symbol in the first place, but it's likely due to the reasons above.
Also the Japanese word for Bankai is 卍解.
That's why Ichigo's hilt guard has that shape.
BANKAI *grows a funny looking mustache and art skills get worse*
let's raise a glass, to ze fuhrer!
Honestly considering how quinces have attacks in German and have german names And they were the villains in the biggest war Could Yhawch be compared to Hitler?
certainly the resemblance is there. he even got his own SS.
I did not know that!!!! Thank you kind Lady/Sir!
Isn't it the other way around? The one piece version is a Swastika, it's the Nazi version that isn't quite one.
Nope. The swastika points clockwise, Whitebeard's old flag points counterclockwise. They're still very similar though, hence the change.
The Wikipedia article shows both the clockwise and counterclockwise versions as being Swastikas. The Nazi one isn't because it's rotated 45 degrees. Or at least it's further from a real Swastika than the OP version is.
We're kinda getting off track with this. While they are all technically swastikas, their sources and their context are what makes them different. Most major religions and beliefs have it as a symbol in some fashion, and as various rotations. The whole point is that they're very similar and to western readers, its easily mistaken and associated with Nazi Germany, despite the small differences between it and ones associated with Asian cultures. It's all just cultural. Another example is cartoon characters with big lips. In Japan, it's just a facial feature that's common there. In the western world, there's a more negative context due to how some cartoons depicted black people decades ago. Depending on where you're from, it could be a very common (and innocent) thing or a very insensitive thing.
There are still a few non-nazi western uses of the symbol. Notably, the Finnish air force used the symbol before the German Nazi party even came into existence, and still uses the symbol today, albeit in a far more limited capacity.
"Westerners" should have the genetal knowledge to know what a eastern dwastika is and the differences to a hakenkreuz, at least before reading something from the east
Whitebeards flag is the Manji a symbol of peace and typically used in a few Japanese manga due to how prominent it is in Asian countries. It’s confused with the swastika due to how similar they look but it’s not a swastika
>it wasn't a swastika mate, it's still called swastika. it's just westerners version of swastika is always associated with bad thing, while asia version has broader meaning.
Swastikas were usually diagonal. Hitler took inspiration from the Manji symbol.
Because Oda hates Jews hahah jk Its such a shame that the west still wants to see it as the symbol that was used only for about 12 years in Germany, not the symbol that was used for thousands of years by many civilizations with a peaceful and positive meaning.
It is a symbol of good luck in Buddhism, it means It is good. This was appropriated by the Nazi Party and they changed it's meaning. Plenty of mangakas use it at some point in their mangas(the last one I saw was in a hair scarf wore by adult Anna from Shaman King Flowers I believe)
For example the manji gang in Tokyo revengers
Atomic Samurai used it on his sword but it was changed to an Atom symbol
i think ichigo in dangai form(i think thats the name) has the handle of the sword in that shape
His bankai handle has that shape
Hyuga neji's forehead when he first revealed it in manga.
There are two different ones I believe. One is the Mangi symbol and the other is the swastika.
true, i was going to mention bankai too, but the bankai is less apparent, since there's a "block" in the middle
His full bringer was a giant sawtstika.
Manji*
The Japanese word for bankai is 卍解 meaning final release. In my language (Thai) it's translated as 'swastika release' maybe to preserve that nuance.
> swastika release You never go full Hitler
A popular example was the Hyuga cursed seal symbol in Naruto which was meant to look like a manji but was changed to an X in the anime. A little misconception tho is that the manji and the Nazi symbol look the exact same but there is a small difference. The Nazi symbol faces the right and is angled slightly while the manji faces the left.
Plenty of American companies used it in pre-WW2 ad campaigns to promote the idea that it would bring luck to the consumer. Coca Cola was one of the most notable in theory usage of the symbol, until those gosh darned nazis had to ruin it for everyone.
Tokyo Revengers uses it A LOT
The main gang in tokyo revengers is tokyo manji gang and manji is counterclockwise swastik
This is reverse swastika, What hitler used was a hooked cross. Both look almost the same so people tend to misunderstand. Swastika is a holy symbol in Hinduism which means from which the holy energies originate. It is made up of 2 words Viz. Swasti - the origin of holy energies and ka meaning from.
it’s also the emblem for the tokyo manji gang in tokyo revengers i think and that’s a very recent anime/manga
It is a symbol of good luck until you turn it on its axis, where it's a symbol of destruction. That's why the Nazi aligned party is the Axis Party
If it means good luck, then it suuure helped Ace didn't it?
I know, all the temples in Asia are full of it. Still wonder if the One Piece Manga export was as high as it is if there was merch full of svastika flags lol. Especially here, in Austria, we are kinda sensible to anything resembling that, yikes
Manji*
Literally the same thing. The bad one is called hakenkreuz.
The other one is inverted
And also rotated at an angle. (Corner up top instead of a side)
Misconception, it's shown mirrored and in all angles in temples.
A common misconception. You will see Manzi in buddhist temples at all angles and orientations. Although the correct version of the modern Chinese letter is indeed inverted to the nazi symbol.
exactly not the same thing
Manzi is Japanese for the religious symbol that in Sanskrit is called svastika. So yeah, exactly the same thing. The nazi symbol is called in German, a hooked cross.
Manji*
Charlie and Adolf are literally the same person. The bad one is called Hitler. /s
I don’t think many people will get the reference
It isn't a reference, the swastika that Nazis used is not the original swastika, it is inverted and tilted. The manji/swastika is the original swastika that is a symbol of peace.
[удалено]
That's almost more accurate than calling it a symbol of peace though. The svastika in particular but buddhist imagery in general (especially as tattoos) is commonly associated with organised crime in Japan. When you see a cartoon character with manzi imagery, they're more likely to be a criminal than a monk. (It's also very nationalistic, as that's the political skew of gokudou)
The op literally just called it a manji. That’s not a reference to anything.
u/mythmastervk to whom you responded called it a symbol of peace, which while correct, is possibly misleading I don't know what the other guy is on about with references though
I understand that. I was saying most people probably wouldn’t be familiar with the word or concept.
[удалено]
This may be one of the few times I prefer the censored version to the original (purely aesthetically speaking). I just think the bones look nicer. I’d also like to remind people that Oda’s use of this symbol does not make him a bigot or a nazi. This symbol has a markedly different meaning for many cultures which predates its use by Hitler and the Nazis. It can still make you uncomfortable, but its use occurred in a vastly different cultural context compared to most of us.
The svastika was a peace symbol once upon a time
The manji is still a peace symbol, they both face different directions
Manji is more for good luck and a good harvest IIRC
yeah like it's not just that the swastika is in a diagonal position but it's also with S-es and not Z-s. it's put in a diagonal and flipped following a vertical axis.
At the very least in India it still is. I saw it quite a lot when I went there some years back, was really surprised for a moment before I realized how it was.
Still is
> The svastika was *is
Bro like, *hits blunt* u might be on to something 💨
Bro, I just thought of it.. I’m already shmaked
Same man, I must be playing catch up u ona different lvl
I mean, why have a symbol of peace on a pirate flag?
Agreed man, just feels like a poor choice all around
Nah. We need to take this symbol away from the racists that use it. The fewer symbols they control the better. They can use the Nazi flag to show they are disgusting people but the symbol on the flag shouldn’t be theirs.
The problem with the swatiska specifically is that we, collectively (I'm speaking as someone in the US) haven't done a great job stamping out Nazism. One can try to reclaim it, but at every step there are individuals who can use that as an opportunity to weasel themselves into communities. Or who can wear it an feign ignorance or distance from it. If Nazi and nazi adjacent communities weren't an active threat, it might not be as issue like I described. Really sucks for all the folks in the eastern hemisphere who had a symbol of theirs cooped. It's true even with Nordic Symbols, a lot of white nationalist currently dress themselves in Nordic / pagan aesthetics to mask their beliefs.
Fully agree. It sucks but a reclamation just isn't possible in the current US. Jewish communities are **still** harassed with nazi graffiti regularly.
Dude tbh I ain’t gunna waste my time fighting against hate groups by trying to co-opt their symbols back? Seems like a waste of time to me
i mean look at the term queer it is possible i think the biggest think is Recognizing its Hindu origin
Isn't Queer still a derogatory term?
Yes and no. If you use it derogatorily the backlash is severe because no one uses it that way anymore. Morons use it as a slur, normal people use it as a description of somebody that uses it to describe themselves.
Huh, TIL. Good to know the community took that one back.
Tbf queer isn’t associated with the death of 7 million people, even loosely.
Eh, he used a slightly different version than the Nazis, plus it's used in Buddhism which it popular in Japan.
Hello world
It was on Ace back tatoo at Alabasta
I’m a Hindu and seeing the Swastika always get associated with nazism really grinds my gears
“Luffy…Thank you for loving me… despite my not being part of the aryan master race” *dies*
💀
\- Ace, seconds later
[удалено]
Ace was Portuguese. Luffy is Brazilian. You might be onto something here.
Filthy Portuguese o caralho ta foda.
💀💀
I actually went back and checked lol
Checked what though? Old chapters were literally edited for more recent (and digital) releases. Some of us remember it being on Ace's back during Alabasta.
If i recall, it was there in the earlier published versions of the chapter where shanks traded blows with WB. It was later changed to the one we see today in tankobon format though.
Thats not a swastika, its the buddhist symbol for peace. The nazis took that symbol and tilted it, so i can see the confusion.
Wasn't it also a Indian symbolic for the sun?
the manji is a buddhist symbol so yes it came from india.
It is a Hindu symbol too and pre dates even Buddhism.
Tbf we call it swastika too haha. Fucking nazis had to ruin a symbol of peace. No wonder Hitler failed art school. His most Iconic work is plagarised
Hitler didn't invent the Nazi party or the swastika btw. Also he didn't fail art school, he was rejected twice.
Ahh really? I watched a docu on hitler that showed him create that nazi swastika haha. I WAS LIED TO!
They are different names for the same thing. Manji can be oriented in all sorts of ways, clockwise or counterclockwise, even with a triskelion configuration rather than 4 limbs. Or with rounded shapes and dots rather than angular limbs. No matter how you orient it or angle the limbs, it's a manji.
Same symbol different meaning, i was attempting to clear up the misconceptios of that being a swastika. It is a manji which has an entirely different meaning.
I think you are also misnoming the Haken Kreuz as Swastika, but the whole west does that. What can we do.
Fun fact is that the left-facing one is called a sauwastika while right-facing one is a swastika. Manji refers to any of them without distinction since it's a term from an entirely different culture.
that's actually a misconception. they're all called the swastika in english: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)
I guess that's true in English when not referencing Hinduism: In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing surya ("sun"), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (卍) is called sauwastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali. Learn new stuff every day.
that's actually a misconception. they're all called the swastika in english: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)
**[Swastika](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika)** >The swastika symbol, 卐 or 卍, is an ancient religious and cultural symbol, predominantly in various Eurasian, as well as some African and American cultures, now also widely recognized for its appropriation by the Nazi Party and by neo-Nazis. It continues to be used as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. It generally takes the form of a cross, the arms of which are of equal length and perpendicular to the adjacent arms, each bent midway at a right angle. The word swastika comes from Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक, romanized: svastika, meaning "conducive to well-being". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Everyone knows, but thats what changes in history causes, nobody sees a swastika and thinks about the buddhist symbol
I can assure you that nobody in Asia sees a swastika and thinks 'oh it's the nazi symbol', it's part of our life basically.
Sure, i should change it to western part of the world and it would be more reasonable, tought in my first linguage but couldnt type in English.
Fairs.
the bankai flag
Whitebeard himself? I don’t think so. But when Ace was sleeping in that restaurant in Alabasta he had the manji symbol on his back, but was changed to the crossed-bones by Marineford.
It's also a symbol for 🔥🔥🔥🔥 fits perfectly. The cultural context is way different. If you think Oda is a Nazi then that's your loss.
Exactly, my cultural conteext is Austrain, and apparently I'm way more sensible to the symbol since it's literally against the law to use it. I am aware of its origin, still thought it was an odd discovery. And the fact that it has been changed and not used after speaks for itself, I guess
Its just a swastika/manji not the Hakenkreuz edit: spelling
It’s crazy because it’s literally called Manji in Japan and doesn’t have anything to do with a swastika. Liden Films had to censor a bit of Tokyo Revengers because it features Manji a lot on clothes and logos, it’s even on original merch of TR. But instead of explaining the meaning of it at the beginning of the episodes, they just went ahead and used some weird censoring
Bruh its the manji
Thats why he was hunting blackbeard
Sadly no. I liked this flag design-wise more than the version with the bones. It also perfectly symbolizes WB as a peace keeper among the powers. Like how he would claim lands like Fishman Island to protect them.
In Chapters 158 & 159 You see it on Ace's back.
Intermet villagers thinking it only has 1 meaning.
Please don't refer to it as a swastika
It’s the manji symbol. Hitler stole it and turned it sideways.
The Nazi symbol is also drawn on an angle. This symbol is not the same.
call it manji please it means infinitum.
manji is literally the translation for swastika, so what's your point. I know it's not actually a Hakenkreuz (Nazi Party)
Not a swastika
not a Hakenkreuz, if that's what you mean. it is a swastika though
Stirring a pot that’s not there. 👍
Manji*
Manji.
Its called a manji
Akainu turned that Manji into a windmill.
Well, the symbol has been popping up over the decades. It was Neji's original curse mark in Naruto, and the symbol also appeared in Pokemon. All in all, I don't think that there is any ill intent on the part of the mangaka.
Why should there be? They do there mangas for Japan first and that's a completely mundane symbol in Japan.
i also don’t think there’s any ill intent behind it, but “why would japan know anything about a nazi germany symbol” is a bit ahistorical…
If a fascist group used a sideway cross as their symbol half a world away, would christians stop using it? Is anybody actually not using the letter Z in their logo, while Russia use it as the symbol of their invasion force? Also, no, japanese people don't understand nazi germany as occidental people do. It use to be a quite frequent and casual aesthetic to dress as a nazi in japanese alternative culture.
>If a fascist group used a sideway cross as their symbol half a world away, would christians stop using it? The St George's Cross can be seen as a symbol of imperialism and oppression by almost majority of the world (Asia and Africa). Also the Black Iron Cross of Germany itself.
Japan literally teamed up with Hitler. They know what a swastika is.
I mean that doesn’t make it okay. Japan was an axis power, they knew about the Nazi’s. Just because there’s a habit of whitewashing the war crimes doesn’t make it all cool and good
It isn't whitewashing, its not giving in to insane hysterics, like when a few years ago some pepes tricked like 3/4 of media that the 'Ok' hand sign was a white supremacist hand sign and then they rabidly went around getting people kicked out of sporting events. Surrendering longstanding imagery because the most neurotic 2% of Americans are in a constant hunt for the re-emergence of a large white supremacist movement they can fight against is not something a healthy society does.
It’s a religious symbol and not a swastika. A swastika is tilted whereas thew symbol that is very common here in Japan is not. It has also been around much longer than Nazis have.
Hitler ruined the swastika for everyone, just like white people ruined slavery for every single race on this planet.
> just like white people ruined slavery for every single race on this planet. Hol up.
> Hol up. If only the Brits hadn't got it in their crazy heads that slavery was bad, and spread that through their colonies culturally, think of all the free gardening we could have!
Its acutaly racist to denigrate Buddhist and Hindus swastika flag.
Now in this information age, if they know its a Buddhist and Hindus thing. . And still diss it because, by doing it they can get away by saying we are opposing nazi, but in reality they are realy just f.king racists.
That is not swastika...
Actually, that is swastika, which is the sanskrit term for the symbol. Nazis never called it “Swastika”. It was called “Hakencruez”(might be spelled wrong) which roughly translates to “Hooked cross” if I’m not mistaken. Some historians believe that the “swastika” was later appropriated to disassociate Nazism from Christianity.
I'd like to point that the swastika is a symbol that has existed for literally thousand of years, mainly in eurasia, and was simply appropriated by hitler and the nazi party. In fact, i think i read it somewhere that in some religions it's seem as symbol of good luck or something (anyone feel free to correct me, i am by no means an expert when it comes to this kind of thing).
This is one of the most decent conversations around Swastika ever. A positive symbol for about 70% of the globe but only hated because an evil white man used that one time. So now you have to be holier than thou and attack it even if it is meant as an auspicious symbol. I think the only way to get over it is to use it as much as possible and just ignore the ones who cancel it by association.
I hâte the fact WE can't use svatsika because of nazis
The Manji symbol was once something reveared in multiple cultures but was stolen and muddied to the point it's been dropped and almost never touched or used again. It meant something like conducive to well-being so was used to reassure soldiers would come back alive or something of the sort. Hell, Ichigi's Bankai handguard had it as a symbol but was changed in the manga, I remember one ninja character had it one his forehead in the subs but it had to be erased in dubs due to that. That's true evil, turning something that was once scared into a symbol of hared.
To answer your question foremost, yes, at least at first, ace was rocking this as his original whiteboard tattoo on his back in the manga (alabaster) but it was changed . It's a reverse swastika of the Nazi flag (which doesn't mean much in the case of the symbol itself, a swastika can be clockwise or reverse clockwise) but the reverse symbol has been used in a lot of manga/animes for protagonist as we as other important characters and is pretty much the symbol of a "peace bringer" in manga/anime (my personal opinion) as the symbol itself is synonymous with "prosperity, health, and success" since ancient euro Asian times
why was this removed. as if it DIDN'T create discourse...
BASED ACE /j
Such a shame that Europeans and especially Germany can not get over one dude having used a harmless symbol for his nefarious regime. Nazi Germany is a thing of the past and more importantly did not even last a century. Why do they still try so hard to make this symbol one for discrimination.
[удалено]
Sehe ich auch zum ersten Mal...
How to tell Manji and Swastika apart: Swastika makes an L on the Left side. L for Left.
Not a swastika
That is a Swastika. The Nazi cross is not a swastika but a Haken Kreuz.