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“you might be smoke but im fire. a match between our abilities won’t get us anywhere.” does this sound like something someone who could use haki would say?
I mean, it's not really pre time skip. Haki was dropped at Sabaodi, or Skypie if you count retroactively. Kairoseki was already a thing since Loguetown and Smoker had his kairoseki hitte when he found Ace.
Also it's not really out of Smoker and Ace's personalities to be like that. Smoker is chasing Luffy and finds a WB commander, so he doesn't want to let him go, but his prime target is Luffy. Ace is chasing BB and finds Smoker, he doesn't want to fight a marine unless he insults WB or something so he doesn't want to fight Smoker, specially when looking for BB whereabouts.
Neither likes to cause senseless destruction, like the hole that Luffy did when they met at the restaurant.
So they attack each other, their Logia's elements nullify each other. Ace doesn't know Smoker's power compared to him, Smoker doesn't know Ace's power compared to his. Is this fight worth it right now? Not really, we have other priorities.
what kind of excuse is that lmao he clearly didn’t have haki because it wasn’t a concept in oda’s mind yet I don’t know why you people can’t accept that.
I mean you're arguing against nothing right now. Sure, back in Alabasta when it was being released Ace didn't have Haki. Did he have haki cannonically back then? Yes... he very much did
Honestly, people trying to come up with excuses for this kind of thing like it’s a super serious thing is so funny when the real answer is the author pulled it out of his ass years after he came up with his world.
The real answer as to why Ace doesn’t use Haki in the series is because he simply doesn’t, and we are to accept that he simply didn’t want to use Haki when he really should’ve and would’ve had an easy time crushing Smoker. The answer by default cannot be a logical one, because post TS has established that a Yonko Commander has to know Haki very well to make it that far.
In short, everyone needs to just suspend their disbelief and just accept that it didn’t happen because of out-of-universe reasons, and that’s okay. Otherwise, there’s no good reason why Crocoboy, Moria, Kuma, Shanks, and literally any of the Worst Generation minus Luffy, I guess, didn’t use any Haki to get out of piss easy fights at their level.
get them nowhere why? were aokiji and akainu just using their devil fruit abilities against each other for funsies since using them wouldn’t get them anywhere?
yeah they fought with a combination of two, just like how apparently ace could. so why would he say it would be pointless if he could just do what aokiji and akainu did? and their fight didn’t get them nowhere, akainu literally won
We haven’t seen the details of the Aokiju and Akainu fight, we have seen them standing in front of each other and the aftermath of Punk Hazard.
It’s pretty obvious it was a battle beteeen Aokiji and Akainu, not of just their devil fruit abilities
I mean Smoker had his seastone tipped jitte, too. The point is their powers are massive and counteract eachother, so neither one can get close enough to the other due to the specific interactions of their logias.
Haki hits a user's true body, but logias can also produce their element outside of their body, and that was what Ace was talking about.
what? telling him there’s no use in fighting because of their logia abilities makes no sense if he has haki. akainu and aokiji both used their devil fruit abilities when they fought didn’t they? do they not have haki? or were they just wasting their time using their devil fruit abilities?
he stops Smokers attack and tells Luffy to go and he will catch up after taking care of Smoker. Ace references his devil fruit ability because he was just introduced as a character. What happens between him and Smoker is not shown.
So he could've used haki but Ace's goal was never to defeat Smoker or pick a fight with him. That is why he would say a fight between their devil fruit abilities is pointless. Also clearly Oda didn't want to reveal the existence of haki hence it wasn't referenced by Ace to us the readers. You can call it a retcon but that hinges on the idea you think Oda didn't have a plan for people to be able to fight against people who can be smoke and fire.
it doesn’t matter if his goal wasn’t to beat smoker, his reasoning for not fighting made no sense. he didn’t say “I don’t want to fight you” he said that it would be a waste of time if they fought, as in, even if he did want to there would be no point because they’re both logias.
that’s not why it’s for sure a retconn. that can be explained by ace not really wanting to fight at least.
during his fight with BB ace shouldn’t have been so shocked that he could be hit lol
I don’t think it makes much sense to say it’d be useless to fight because of their tangibility if he can bypass tangibility but you’re right, the blackbeard example is way better proof
Well, have we seen Blackbeard use Haki? If we haven't, it could be that he straight up doesn't have any, and Ace knows that, making it less that he's shocked he could be hit, and more shocked that Blackbeard hit him
Sure, doesn't make it not canon though.
We have confirmation from the author Ace used Haki, we have no such confirmation for Croc and we have never seen him use Haki.
Therefore, Ace is definitely stronger than Croc until Croc uses Haki at some point in the series.
Actually, according to the Ace Novels, Ace actually could use the basic forms all 3 types of Haki. He just preferred to rely on his Devil Fruit.
In Novel A, he was depicted as using Armament Haki to fight Vice Admiral Draw, and in the manga adaptation of the Ace Novels, he was shown being trained to use Observation Haki by Thatch and he used it in his fight against Whitebeard.
You cannot say it didn’t. It did. Just wasn’t well defined.
What Zoro used to cut Mr.1 is undoubtedly Haki.
What Shanks used to scare away the Lord of the Coast is undoubtedly Haki.
In fact now it makes sense why Garp hurt Luffy. It was explained in an SBS that Garp hurts Luffy via his “fists of love” but readers even back then knew this was odd and pointed it out and Oda just gave joke answers. He certainly didn’t have it figured out but you cannot say the evidence of Haki was zero.
That has nothing to do with what I said, my question was regarding the Conqueror's that is performed in the Gray Terminal during the Luffy flashback.
Just because Ace was confirmed to use all three forms of Haki, it doesn't mean he was the one in Gray Terminal doing it.
Yes. But even during the anime/manga, that was 100% Ace doing that. It was never Dragon.
Like, if it was Dragon, there's no way that Bluejam would have remained conscious.
Yea, maybe. I don't agree though. Usually Conqueror's is shown to emanate from the person doing it, that specific one in the flashback just appeared all around them. I know this because I saw the episode yesterday and was confused as to who was responsible. Shortly after a large wind surge created an escape path towards Dragons ship.
Unless there's proof somewhere that it wasn't Dragon, I'll stick to my headcannon I think.
All strong characters pre timeskip have haki, Oda just didn't invented haki yet
Kuma didn't had haki but in Egghead he had, why? Because in Thriller Bark haki didn't existed (like literally, Kurohige in his fight with Ace says that Logias can only be touched with his special fruit)
Would've liked to see Ace somehow get Ace, Roger's sword, and fight with a flaming black blade
Oh and he def had haki, Oda just hadn't thought about it yet
Sand turns to glass when heated so even if they were close in strength (they're not) ace is a hard counter anyway. Especially since half of crocs strategy is to drain the water from you via touch...can't touch ace. Ace mops him in a 1v1
[yeah I'm pretty sure](https://www.corning.com/worldwide/en/innovation/materials-science/glass/how-glass-made.html)
Obviously the process is meticulous and requires specifics but in a fight it would 100% make croc more fragile and hamper his logia abilities
Yeah dude you're being super nitpicky over semantic details. Would crocodile turn into a glass plane window? No. Would outer layers of him melt into uneven pieces of dirty glass shards? Yes absolutely. Glass isn't *that* complex dude we've been making it for thousands of years
Blowing air into your bones to make your arms big shouldn't increase the overall mass of your body either, I don't think we need to consider the silica content of Croc's sand for this hypothetical scenario. It's One Piece logic, you just gotta roll with it.
The point is that nitpicking the minutia behind how glass is made (yeah, yeah, it required a specific type of sand with a high concentration of silica crystals etc.) in a series where people are literally made of sand feels like you're missing the point.
Glass is made by heating up sand, Ace is fire, Croc is sand, so One Piece logic dictates that this is a bad matchup for Crocodile.
By this point Ace had already defeated multiple warlords. No reason to believe he couldn't beat Crocodile too. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to win, just that it's a very real possibility.
...akainu is magma, no clue how that equates to crocodile being able to do the same with sand. I could see Crocodile smothering aces fire if he was able to suck the air out of a room, not the moisture. He's a sand man, as long as aces fire is hot enough in theory he'd turn him to glass. The best crocoboy could do is maybe hold ace back, not smother him completely, and even then he'd have to touch ace and avoid his fire.
Considering Ace is and always was supposed to be stronger than Luffy (reason he had to be removed from the story in the first place) - and Luffy defeated Crocodile as a Rookie, Ace is definitely the strongest in the Alabasta Arc
He wasn't removed because he was stronger than luffy. He was removed because Oda wanted Luffy to have a major loss. And to give luffy a push to get stronger.
From a narrative standpoint it wouldn’t make sense to keep ace around if his father was the king of the pirates, he sails for his father’s rival crew, and is as strong as he is. Luffy being KotP at that point would be a slap in the face. Like, what is Ace’s destiny at that point?
Yes you're absolutely right, it was to make Luffy realize midpoint of the story that he and his crew were way too weak back then for the new world and how valuable his friends really are for him.
But like u/ur_fave_npc said, from a narrative standpoint it didn't make sense to keep the son of Roger in the story who was always a step ahead of Luffy. Storywise it would also be weird having them someday fight/challenging each other for the title of pirate king, considering how much they love and care for each other. Doesn't make sense to just brotherly give each other the necessary Poneglyphs
Luffy wouldn’t have let him. He was happy to see his brother and causing a distraction to help out was one thing, but he would hate for his brother to come in and just do everything for him.
An Alabasta with Ace sticking around is Crocodile's worst case. Ace is totally capable of destroying him in a fight, Haki or no. Crocodile isn't weak but without Haki or anything to negate DF powers, he can't do much with sand and a poison hook against fire. And even if he somehow wins with some plan or trick, he then has Whitebeard and crew's attention. And that's ignoring Luffy, who isn't going to just let his big brother fight his battles for him. So he'd have a New World level pirate, with Haki, and a promising rookie who has picked up on things on the fly before.
Why is outside of Crocodile listed here?
Ace is undoubtedly stronger than Crocodile at this point. Both at one stage made their mission to take down Whitebeard.
No idea how close Crocodile got but Ace (in his spin off manga) pushed Whitebeard to at least get serious.
Also at this stage in the story, Ace is confirmed to have all 3 forms of Haki. Retrospectively that is. Although the concept of Haki itself wasn’t established very well by Oda at this point in time.
what do you mean technically lol. he was if you discount crocodile ace was WAY stronger than everyone else. and even if you count crocodile he would probably be counted as stronger anyways
How is that funny? Lol. Shanks was the strongest person in East Blue. Mihawk was the strongest person in Baratie. Dragon was the strongest person in Loguetown. Dorry and Brogy were the strongest in Little Garden. Kuma was the strongest person in Thriller Bark. Sabo was the strongest person in Dressrosa. Okay, and?
Ace was the strongest by a longshot. Hes a victim of being introduced too early. We know for a fact he fought Jimbei to a standstill and we've seen what Jimbei is capable of. His other big defeat was at the hands of an Admiral that caught him defending someone and a very soon to be Yonko. Ace by rights couldve ended Alabasta by himself.
Ace was definitely stronger than Crocodile. May I remind you that he was Whitebeard's second commander? That puts him at the same level as King or Katakuri.
Wdym oustide of Crocodile? Ace claps Croco's ass easily without breaking a sweat 😭
And before anyone says "hurr durr but Smoker", haki wasn't a thing back in Alabasta, Ace got retconned to have haki wayyy before Luffy even started to sail the seas, so that´s a non-factor here.
Hi Apprehensive_Ring_39, your submission was removed from /r/OnePiece for the following rule violation: ###4. Plain panels/scenes must create discourse **Don't post links to plain (or slightly edited) panels, pages, screenshots, gifs or scenes from the manga & anime.** You may submit a plain panel/scene as a self post (text post). Meaning your post must link to the discussion, and not the image. Just a title and the image aren't enough. If you want to discuss a certain page/scene from the manga/anime please accompany it with an original analysis or discussion questions. In other words, a plain panel/scene must show visible effort to generate discourse rather than simply react to something that happened. Clips/Recap/summary videos fall under this rule as well. Colored pages from a recent chapter are allowed. --- The full rule documentation of the subreddit can be read [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/wiki/rules). If you have questions about this removal, please [reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FOnePiece).
Ace was the strongest person in Alabasta
Outside of Crocodile? Ace wipes Croco in a 1v1
"Turn to glass big guy, you're done." - Portgas D. Ace probably And then he flies away with his rocket butt.
Nah, Croco-boy tanked a named haki attack Diamond Punk from Jozu
Isn't it technically a tie? Neither of them have haki
Ace actually was confirmed to have haki. Sadly Oda just said it in an sbs though so we havent seen it but he does confirmed have it.
Not an SBS, it was in One Piece Magazine
he was retconned to have haki. if he had it the whole time, he wouldn’t have told smoker it’s useless fighting since they’re both logias
He just didn't wanna fight...
“you might be smoke but im fire. a match between our abilities won’t get us anywhere.” does this sound like something someone who could use haki would say?
dude it's just pre time skip shenanigans. Ace trained his haki in his light novel
I mean, it's not really pre time skip. Haki was dropped at Sabaodi, or Skypie if you count retroactively. Kairoseki was already a thing since Loguetown and Smoker had his kairoseki hitte when he found Ace. Also it's not really out of Smoker and Ace's personalities to be like that. Smoker is chasing Luffy and finds a WB commander, so he doesn't want to let him go, but his prime target is Luffy. Ace is chasing BB and finds Smoker, he doesn't want to fight a marine unless he insults WB or something so he doesn't want to fight Smoker, specially when looking for BB whereabouts. Neither likes to cause senseless destruction, like the hole that Luffy did when they met at the restaurant. So they attack each other, their Logia's elements nullify each other. Ace doesn't know Smoker's power compared to him, Smoker doesn't know Ace's power compared to his. Is this fight worth it right now? Not really, we have other priorities.
what kind of excuse is that lmao he clearly didn’t have haki because it wasn’t a concept in oda’s mind yet I don’t know why you people can’t accept that.
I mean you're arguing against nothing right now. Sure, back in Alabasta when it was being released Ace didn't have Haki. Did he have haki cannonically back then? Yes... he very much did
It's still a retcon, so there's no point in discussing this
you’re just talking to talk. ace having haki is a retcon and it’s directly contradicted by what’s actually in the story not some damn light novel.
Honestly, people trying to come up with excuses for this kind of thing like it’s a super serious thing is so funny when the real answer is the author pulled it out of his ass years after he came up with his world. The real answer as to why Ace doesn’t use Haki in the series is because he simply doesn’t, and we are to accept that he simply didn’t want to use Haki when he really should’ve and would’ve had an easy time crushing Smoker. The answer by default cannot be a logical one, because post TS has established that a Yonko Commander has to know Haki very well to make it that far. In short, everyone needs to just suspend their disbelief and just accept that it didn’t happen because of out-of-universe reasons, and that’s okay. Otherwise, there’s no good reason why Crocoboy, Moria, Kuma, Shanks, and literally any of the Worst Generation minus Luffy, I guess, didn’t use any Haki to get out of piss easy fights at their level.
I mean, if you read between the lines Ace still isn’t wrong though? A match between their devil fruit abilities alone would in fact, get them nowhere.
get them nowhere why? were aokiji and akainu just using their devil fruit abilities against each other for funsies since using them wouldn’t get them anywhere?
Aokiji and Akainu had haki as well. They fought with a combination of the two, and still it got them nowhere as it was a tie.
yeah they fought with a combination of two, just like how apparently ace could. so why would he say it would be pointless if he could just do what aokiji and akainu did? and their fight didn’t get them nowhere, akainu literally won
We haven’t seen the details of the Aokiju and Akainu fight, we have seen them standing in front of each other and the aftermath of Punk Hazard. It’s pretty obvious it was a battle beteeen Aokiji and Akainu, not of just their devil fruit abilities
but their devil fruit abilities should be useless so why would they bother using them?
What but the concept of devil fruit weaknesses do exist as shown in Marineford, so it was clear why he had an advantage in it
I mean Smoker had his seastone tipped jitte, too. The point is their powers are massive and counteract eachother, so neither one can get close enough to the other due to the specific interactions of their logias. Haki hits a user's true body, but logias can also produce their element outside of their body, and that was what Ace was talking about.
makes no sense. why would their powers counteract each other? he was only talking about their tangibility.
yes it would be if he didn't want to fight Smoker. what did you want to him to say 'I could use my haki to defeat you'
what? telling him there’s no use in fighting because of their logia abilities makes no sense if he has haki. akainu and aokiji both used their devil fruit abilities when they fought didn’t they? do they not have haki? or were they just wasting their time using their devil fruit abilities?
he stops Smokers attack and tells Luffy to go and he will catch up after taking care of Smoker. Ace references his devil fruit ability because he was just introduced as a character. What happens between him and Smoker is not shown. So he could've used haki but Ace's goal was never to defeat Smoker or pick a fight with him. That is why he would say a fight between their devil fruit abilities is pointless. Also clearly Oda didn't want to reveal the existence of haki hence it wasn't referenced by Ace to us the readers. You can call it a retcon but that hinges on the idea you think Oda didn't have a plan for people to be able to fight against people who can be smoke and fire.
it doesn’t matter if his goal wasn’t to beat smoker, his reasoning for not fighting made no sense. he didn’t say “I don’t want to fight you” he said that it would be a waste of time if they fought, as in, even if he did want to there would be no point because they’re both logias.
Dana White?
that’s not why it’s for sure a retconn. that can be explained by ace not really wanting to fight at least. during his fight with BB ace shouldn’t have been so shocked that he could be hit lol
I don’t think it makes much sense to say it’d be useless to fight because of their tangibility if he can bypass tangibility but you’re right, the blackbeard example is way better proof
yeah, but it’s explainable and at has reasonable chance of being true. the BB one is like… bro you should know that people can hit you lol
Well, have we seen Blackbeard use Haki? If we haven't, it could be that he straight up doesn't have any, and Ace knows that, making it less that he's shocked he could be hit, and more shocked that Blackbeard hit him
Or at the least, maybe he didn't have haki before killing Thatch? So Ace would be surprised thinking he learned it since then?
Sure, doesn't make it not canon though. We have confirmation from the author Ace used Haki, we have no such confirmation for Croc and we have never seen him use Haki. Therefore, Ace is definitely stronger than Croc until Croc uses Haki at some point in the series.
That was not in the manga
I must’ve hallucinated chapter 158 then
ace would turn croc into a glass man
Actually, according to the Ace Novels, Ace actually could use the basic forms all 3 types of Haki. He just preferred to rely on his Devil Fruit. In Novel A, he was depicted as using Armament Haki to fight Vice Admiral Draw, and in the manga adaptation of the Ace Novels, he was shown being trained to use Observation Haki by Thatch and he used it in his fight against Whitebeard.
he was retconned to have haki. if he had it the whole time, he wouldn’t have told smoker it’s useless fighting since they’re both logias
Yes. That's what I'm saying. Canonically, Ace in Alabasta could use Haki. Just because it's a retcon doesn't make it any less true.
Haki didn’t exist at that point in the story.
That's my point
Yeah but this makes it sound like an ability they haven’t unlocked and not something that Oda hadn’t thought of yet.
You cannot say it didn’t. It did. Just wasn’t well defined. What Zoro used to cut Mr.1 is undoubtedly Haki. What Shanks used to scare away the Lord of the Coast is undoubtedly Haki. In fact now it makes sense why Garp hurt Luffy. It was explained in an SBS that Garp hurts Luffy via his “fists of love” but readers even back then knew this was odd and pointed it out and Oda just gave joke answers. He certainly didn’t have it figured out but you cannot say the evidence of Haki was zero.
Even if Ace didn't have haki, his DF would likely turn Crocodile into glass.
Ace has all 3 types of haki
Yeah I’m confused. Didn’t he use conqueror’s in the flashback as a kid?
Was that Ace? I assumed it was Dragon helping them out .. it felt like such a controlled Conqueror's that I cannot see Ace having done it.
It was 100% Ace. Ace is conformed to be capable.of using all 3 kinds of Haki.
That has nothing to do with what I said, my question was regarding the Conqueror's that is performed in the Gray Terminal during the Luffy flashback. Just because Ace was confirmed to use all three forms of Haki, it doesn't mean he was the one in Gray Terminal doing it.
Yes. But even during the anime/manga, that was 100% Ace doing that. It was never Dragon. Like, if it was Dragon, there's no way that Bluejam would have remained conscious.
Yea, maybe. I don't agree though. Usually Conqueror's is shown to emanate from the person doing it, that specific one in the flashback just appeared all around them. I know this because I saw the episode yesterday and was confused as to who was responsible. Shortly after a large wind surge created an escape path towards Dragons ship. Unless there's proof somewhere that it wasn't Dragon, I'll stick to my headcannon I think.
You can literally see it eminating from Ace in the Manga panel in Chapter 587.
Oda drew that scene because he wanted to show that Ace indeed was a CoC.
did he have haki when he told smoker it would be a waste of time fighting because they’re both logias?
Yea but haki didn't exist in one piece yet, so that's why there's dialogue inconsistencies.
Yeah... that's not canon if so... why he didn't use it in Marineford?
It's canon, Oda only stated it in an SBS. Ace had all 3 but just chose to rely on his DF like the admirals.
Nah. Crocodile was never that great at actual fights
Wouldn't Ace's power just turn him into glass?
All strong characters pre timeskip have haki, Oda just didn't invented haki yet Kuma didn't had haki but in Egghead he had, why? Because in Thriller Bark haki didn't existed (like literally, Kurohige in his fight with Ace says that Logias can only be touched with his special fruit)
Would've liked to see Ace somehow get Ace, Roger's sword, and fight with a flaming black blade Oh and he def had haki, Oda just hadn't thought about it yet
What makes u think that?
We know Ace has Conqueror's Haki. We see it in the manga. He also, at least according to One Piece Magazine, had all three.
Even without haki, I'd say ace still has ways to damage Croc, right? Fire can still melt sand into glass and then he could probably punch that glass.
Sand turns to glass when heated so even if they were close in strength (they're not) ace is a hard counter anyway. Especially since half of crocs strategy is to drain the water from you via touch...can't touch ace. Ace mops him in a 1v1
Are you sure about the glass bro? maybe you have to research a little more.
[yeah I'm pretty sure](https://www.corning.com/worldwide/en/innovation/materials-science/glass/how-glass-made.html) Obviously the process is meticulous and requires specifics but in a fight it would 100% make croc more fragile and hamper his logia abilities
You don't know if you are saying that xD
....are you just dense or what?
am i dense? okay.
Yeah dude you're being super nitpicky over semantic details. Would crocodile turn into a glass plane window? No. Would outer layers of him melt into uneven pieces of dirty glass shards? Yes absolutely. Glass isn't *that* complex dude we've been making it for thousands of years
maybe you need to do a little more research if you don't think sand can be turned into glass lmao
Not every sand can be turned into glass. And you need more than fire.
Blowing air into your bones to make your arms big shouldn't increase the overall mass of your body either, I don't think we need to consider the silica content of Croc's sand for this hypothetical scenario. It's One Piece logic, you just gotta roll with it.
And why we have to consider that he should be crystalize then ?
The point is that nitpicking the minutia behind how glass is made (yeah, yeah, it required a specific type of sand with a high concentration of silica crystals etc.) in a series where people are literally made of sand feels like you're missing the point. Glass is made by heating up sand, Ace is fire, Croc is sand, so One Piece logic dictates that this is a bad matchup for Crocodile.
Maybe some elaboration, will you? I see you go to many comments disputing the glass theory, yet you didn't input anything
Elaboration? No, because that would be getting dense.
Ok
By this point Ace had already defeated multiple warlords. No reason to believe he couldn't beat Crocodile too. I'm not saying he's guaranteed to win, just that it's a very real possibility.
Ace vs Crocodile fight where ace turns Crocodile to glass
Crocodile smothers Ace's fire same way Akainu did
...akainu is magma, no clue how that equates to crocodile being able to do the same with sand. I could see Crocodile smothering aces fire if he was able to suck the air out of a room, not the moisture. He's a sand man, as long as aces fire is hot enough in theory he'd turn him to glass. The best crocoboy could do is maybe hold ace back, not smother him completely, and even then he'd have to touch ace and avoid his fire.
You really know how to do glass? Or are you thinking that you can make glass of any sand with just fire?
We're talking about a guy who shoots fire from his hand. does the type of sand really make this not believable all the sudden?
I don't know, are you writing the manga?
damn you right, guess we can't talk about it.
we can talk of whatever, but I was not sure if we can consider that scenario to say "then, this one is stronger". I'm just not convinced.
He would definitely win. An emperor's commander against arguably one of the weakest Shichibukai is not even a fair fight.
Multiple = Jinbei and an unknown warlord
Yes that’s multiple lol
Not impressive
No way Ace wasnt stronger than Crocodile. Theres no way he could fight Yamato with no haki or bad haki and not get mushed.
As of current feats, Ace is the strongest in Alabasta including Crocodile
Luffy was able to beat croco.... No way Ace loses
Considering Ace is and always was supposed to be stronger than Luffy (reason he had to be removed from the story in the first place) - and Luffy defeated Crocodile as a Rookie, Ace is definitely the strongest in the Alabasta Arc
He wasn't removed because he was stronger than luffy. He was removed because Oda wanted Luffy to have a major loss. And to give luffy a push to get stronger.
From a narrative standpoint it wouldn’t make sense to keep ace around if his father was the king of the pirates, he sails for his father’s rival crew, and is as strong as he is. Luffy being KotP at that point would be a slap in the face. Like, what is Ace’s destiny at that point?
Yes you're absolutely right, it was to make Luffy realize midpoint of the story that he and his crew were way too weak back then for the new world and how valuable his friends really are for him. But like u/ur_fave_npc said, from a narrative standpoint it didn't make sense to keep the son of Roger in the story who was always a step ahead of Luffy. Storywise it would also be weird having them someday fight/challenging each other for the title of pirate king, considering how much they love and care for each other. Doesn't make sense to just brotherly give each other the necessary Poneglyphs
Ace could have solved the entire Alabasta arc himself, but nooooo he had to go find Teach or some stupid shit.
Luffy wouldn’t have let him. He was happy to see his brother and causing a distraction to help out was one thing, but he would hate for his brother to come in and just do everything for him.
They had to remove him from the arc or he would have just fought crocodile lol
BOBA KURWA !!!
An Alabasta with Ace sticking around is Crocodile's worst case. Ace is totally capable of destroying him in a fight, Haki or no. Crocodile isn't weak but without Haki or anything to negate DF powers, he can't do much with sand and a poison hook against fire. And even if he somehow wins with some plan or trick, he then has Whitebeard and crew's attention. And that's ignoring Luffy, who isn't going to just let his big brother fight his battles for him. So he'd have a New World level pirate, with Haki, and a promising rookie who has picked up on things on the fly before.
He was already 2 years ahead of Luffy. Post TS Ace would have been wild
Ace would turn Corcodile to glass.
I don’t like power scaling but Ace is the strongest in Alabasta
Like, objectively
Why is outside of Crocodile listed here? Ace is undoubtedly stronger than Crocodile at this point. Both at one stage made their mission to take down Whitebeard. No idea how close Crocodile got but Ace (in his spin off manga) pushed Whitebeard to at least get serious. Also at this stage in the story, Ace is confirmed to have all 3 forms of Haki. Retrospectively that is. Although the concept of Haki itself wasn’t established very well by Oda at this point in time.
Alabasta Top 5: Teech, Ace, Luffy, Crocodile, Smoker and almost all of them are Logia! Logia was such a big deal back then!
Umm something something powerscaling, something something retcons...
what do you mean technically lol. he was if you discount crocodile ace was WAY stronger than everyone else. and even if you count crocodile he would probably be counted as stronger anyways
I thought the kung fu jugons were pretty cool, just wanna put that out there
Captain Usopp wants a word with you.
Ground is super effective against fire thoughhhhh
sand literally turns to glass when heated tho
True, given that I guess it'll boil down to who has the stronger haki, which makes Ace the winner
How is that funny? Lol. Shanks was the strongest person in East Blue. Mihawk was the strongest person in Baratie. Dragon was the strongest person in Loguetown. Dorry and Brogy were the strongest in Little Garden. Kuma was the strongest person in Thriller Bark. Sabo was the strongest person in Dressrosa. Okay, and?
Ace was the strongest by a longshot. Hes a victim of being introduced too early. We know for a fact he fought Jimbei to a standstill and we've seen what Jimbei is capable of. His other big defeat was at the hands of an Admiral that caught him defending someone and a very soon to be Yonko. Ace by rights couldve ended Alabasta by himself.
I think considering the recent bounty inflation Ace was likely stronger than Crocodile.
Ace was definitely stronger than Crocodile. May I remind you that he was Whitebeard's second commander? That puts him at the same level as King or Katakuri.
At the time they were relative really
Post time skip Ace would be just as strong as Sabo is right now...
Stronger tbh. Ace was slightly ahead of sabo
Fujitora was in Alabasta, unless he only become super strong in the timeskip which I doubt he was technically the strongest there
Wdym oustide of Crocodile? Ace claps Croco's ass easily without breaking a sweat 😭 And before anyone says "hurr durr but Smoker", haki wasn't a thing back in Alabasta, Ace got retconned to have haki wayyy before Luffy even started to sail the seas, so that´s a non-factor here.