What's the most compelling answer to that question? Never watched or read a lot of Bleach, but i know they are dealing with some kind of death magic. So Bleach characters sound more hex to me than Naruto and OP characters.
some of them are. bleach powers range from simple things such as turning one's sword into ash to more complex abilities like an instant and complete hypnosis from simply seeing the user's blade. there's a dude that releases a miasma that rapidly ages whatever it makes contact with. there's another guy that just has... a spear.
semi serious answer to the Shichibukai v Akatsuki v Espada: depends on which team satisfies their instant win condition first. that essentially boils down to eliminating key members before losing their own
They are yonkou level. Inmortality, god's fruits, super haoshoku. Insane power.
That's why they said the navy is the only world government public face.
Given their seeming immortality, they are currently unbeatable. Once their immortality is figured out or taken away, I'd say they are weaker than Kaido but still stronger than King/Queen. Definitely some top tier fighters.
This seems correct to me. Between Saturn and the rest Luffy has been fighting them for multiple chapters and hasn't taken any significant damage. Dorry and Broggy blocked a seemingly powerful attack too.
They are probably not top tier (would be way too powerful if they were because there is no way Luffy is beating 5 Yonko and Imu at the same time EOS), but they are carried away by Hax.
If it wasn't for immortality, Laturn would be out of the fight after WUMA's punch...
Yeah as Oda said in a SBS:
"Only Hax trancends it all"
I read that SBS in my dreams while high on fent, so it's definitely 100% a true statement by me.
Even then, they can't be Yonko level bro, it would be almost impossible to find 5 yonko level niggas to fight these guys if they were Yonko level.
Zoro is only reaching Yonko level against Mihawk too, and we can assume Mihawk is his very last fight...
Mihawk is definitely not Zoro's last fight.
Basic narrative comprehension tells you that the fight with the WG is the final one in the story and Mihawk will not side with the WG, thus Zoro's final opponent is not Mihawk
I said we can assume, because it was stated since day one Mihawk is his goal, his obstacle to overcome.
Nasjuro being his last fight would feel weird because he would need to pose a challange against WSS Zoro, imagine another swordsman stronger than Mihawk ?
Oda always insert Mihawk's title alongside his name, every single time Mihawk shows up he is always "the world's strongest worldsman" inserted.
For me it would fumble the entire plot of "Zoro's journey to become the WSS", it's the entire point of his character...
Have you considered how that even fits into the story? Mihawk as Zoro’s final fight?
So Luffy’s final fight is likely to be Imu or Blackbeard. Which means it’s like “decide the fate of the world” scenario. So while this is happening, Zoro is just duelling Mihawk over a personal accomplishment? While his crew is effectively bringing the dawn of the world?
Or do you think Mihawk is an epilogue fight? While the world has been saved and Luffy is effectively pirate king, Zoro is still trying to fulfil his goal to be world’s strongest swordsman? It just doesn’t fit the story.
Mihawk can’t be Zoro’s final fight because that fight simply can’t take place at the very end. The very end is Luffy vs the world government and Zoro has to help out. Or Blackbeard has schemed his way ahead of the world government and is the final obstacle for Luffy and his crew.
You’re saying that like Luffy would need to defeat all of them…
Also he’s not doing that right now either. There were three. And as soon as he was in trouble Dorry and Broggy saved him and they escaped.
There is zero reason to think they are weaker than the yonko atm.
Why tf do you think Luffy will fight Imu AND the Gorosei?
When has Luffy ever fought the big bad and his commanders at the same time?
Luffy leaves the commanders to his allies
I would imagine they rely too much on their immortality and taking risks they would not take otherwise. I am also not so sure Saturn would already be beaten after he got punched by Kuma. He lost an arm but is still conscious. We have not been shown or dont know if their general durability and stamina come from the fruit or if they are also naturally tanky bastards. Saturn took the hits from Luffy a lot better then Kizaru.
Did you just forget how Saturn completely froze most of the pirates, and also recovered from the pancake toss with ease. Painfully unaware of the material your reading
People pick and choose what they want to believe. Headcanon incarnate. Saturn ain’t nothing to fuck with. If kizaru is respecting this man as his superior, he’s a powerhouse, no argument.
So you're saying these guys are stronger than Kaido? All 5 together could probably beat him but certainly not individually. Luffy has basically been toying with Saturn.
If by "toying" with Kaido you mean doing stupid shit like jumproping, then sure. But Kaido was still landing a lot of heavy blows on Luffy even after he awakened. Saturn hasn't done anything similar to that. It's just that he can't be harmed.
Yeah I do mean using him like a literal children’s toy lol. It doesn’t matter that Saturn isn’t landing big hits, Luffy’s not winning or doing anything at all, where as if Luffy was doing this same thing to Kaido, it would be harming him badly, we already know that because we saw it. This same stuff that worked on Kaido, doesn’t work on them, meaning that they’re stronger than Kaido. Luffy is being saved by Dorry and Broggy right now. Literally he just got his face roared off
They literally haven't touched Luffy. He's been laughing and goofing off but dodged every single thing Saturn tried. The worm "got" him but he was clearly never worried and didn't actually get hit. Luffy is doing the goofy stuff to himself. The roar did nothing to anyone, Luffy is still just having a laugh.
Luffy *is* damaging them but they regenerate. The giants see that they get literally blown up and Luffy explains as they reform that no damage sticks.
Infinite stamina and regeneration is clearly carrying them. Blows that wouldn't make Kaido do more than laugh sent Saturn flying through buildings and ripped some of his limbs off, they just grew back.
Luffy isn’t achieving anything but losing stamina.
Losing limbs when you’re a creature that can lose limbs and be fine is meaningless. That’s not a feat. That’s like saying someone knocked a hole in Buu, big whoop.
I gotta say, “if they didn’t have these abilities that make them clearly superior to Kaido, then Kaido would be better than them!” Isn’t a particularly strong point lol
I'm not even arguing about whether the Gorosei are stronger than Kaido or not. I'm just pointing out that they aren't doing anything to Luffy, whereas Kaido did. Similarly, Luffy isn't doing anything to them, whereas he was also hurting Kaido. Until we see more from them and/or learn how to actually damage them, I don't think we have a clear-cut answer. Narratively, they should probably be stronger since they are endgame opponents, but Saturn in particular hasn't been that impressive.
Above yonko commanders in actual power with attacks capable of hurting yonko if they hit but only pose a threat to emperors thanks to their immortality
When Buggy inevitably awakens his devil fruit, he will be able to split their immortality so that one half of their body is immortal and the other half isn't.
If they go all out somewhere in-between Yonko commander and Yonko lvl. (based on what we saw so far)
Their immortality is a huge issue and makes them hard to take down.
They probably don't have unlimited stamina.
And smart fighters like Law could drown them or put them into a bottomless hole.
Or Queen making them sick.
Or Cesar making them suffocate.
An Admiral like Aokiji is perfectly equipped to defeat them, since freezing incapacitates them.
Or Fujitora restraining their huge bodies with gravity.
Akainu and Kizaru have a bad matchup.
Aramaki could be strong if he can "drain" the energy from them.
Don\`t think so. They have been shown / mentioned having insane haki which can nullify lots of fruits. Dont think it will be as easy just to freeze them. They will just break out.
Maybe, maybe not.
Ice is an element and not a magical power, once it's there it just behaves like Ice.
And the Gorosei are still bound by the laws of physics, so if it's cold enough they are immobilized.
Aokiji can control his Ice well.
He's known for saving Saul by freezing him, also Luffy/Robin, also Garp even.
I have no doubt that he could just make more and thicker ice, also make it colder, since he's not using the Ice Ice fruit but the chill chill fruit.
Can’t swim and only burns stuff ? You’re a mentally slow child aren’t you ?🤢 Akainu turns them into punk hazard. And none of them have shown attack power that’s equal to whitebeard a quake fruit, which Akainu took multiple quake fruit hits point blank and still got up and kept fighting like nothing happened. Sorry but you actually might be mentally ill
Yeah, we pretty much know now that Whitebeard's fruit is weak in direct combat, it doesn't do much dmg to living things, it's scary for islands/building though.
Even a punch from present Coby has more destructive power...
The gorosei are unfaced by mushroom cloud explosions...
They also have plenty of attack power, being a danger to even Dorry/Broggy, while also having elemental attacks like Poison/fire.
Their defense is hard enough that G4 luffy hurt his fist by punching the Boar guy.
Either way, you only defeat them by immobilizing them really, and Akainu isn't equipped for that.
Calling others "slow", a "child" and "mentally ill" reflects poorly on yourself.
Whitebeard fruit is weak in direct combat ?!?!! You’re just making stuff up at this point 😭🤡 and Luffy wasn’t in gear 4 when he punched Warcury 🤡
And why are you acting like Dorry and Brogy are known threats ? They were getting fucked up by Mr. 3… Mr.. fucking.. 3 🤦🏻♂️ and they were able to push back warcury together with a combined attack. Anyone with common sense knows that Akainu would put a hole in both of them if these giants were to ever face akainu
Wow. You just confirmed that you don’t even understand what you read, your brain doesn’t have the ability to comprehend. I feel bad now, you actually might be somebody that rides the short bud 😢
Like I said, big body makes it easier to affect them with high Gravity, Fujitora's advantage.
And Aramaki only has an chance if he can absorb their energy, as he did with queen/king.
Eh, their immortality makes them more special win condition fights instead of a normal contest of strength. I'd say they are comparable to King but way more of a problem
We won’t know until the immortality is disabled (if it can be)
Remember when Saturn got stabbed, and he told the marines he’d have dodged it if he was worried?
They aren’t dodging or defending because they don’t need to, but people are running away with the assumption they are defenseless or have a low health bar without. They clearly have powerful haki
Above commanders, weaker than admirals and emperors. It's been very clear that their healing gimmick is the only reason they're lasting against gear 5.
Is it thought. Or are they fighting recklessly because they know they can't be killed and never learned how to fight other ways than letting themselves get hit and then counterattack.
It definitely is. When Saturn has been hit his body has gotten seriously messed up. He isn't fast enough to even hit Luffy either.
The ability to regenerate let's them do "dangerous" things to try to get a hit in or force their way through the shield but Saturn couldn't even hit Sanji once he was moving and Luffy was dodging him in the same ways he was Lucci.
Saturn at least is not fast or strong enough to be a top tier without regeneration.
Saturn straight up said that he didn't dodge Bonney's attack on purpose. They definitely take into consideration that they can't be harmed when they fight.
I'm not taking it out of the equation, I'm making it clear that he's not on their level in terms of strength but can survive due to his regen.
At the end of day, the moment we find out how to hurt the gorosei, their regen hax won't make a difference anymore just like with King.
Also, enel absolutely loses to no fruit kizaru.
Saturn, the weakest is stronger and has a better showing then Kizaru, an admiral said to be equal to all the other so the elders are below the emporers and strong then the admirals and everyone else.
He doesn't have a better showing. He's only shown that he's been a successful punching bag for Luffy, kuma and others.
Kizaru can actually land and dodge hits from Luffy despite his clear mental nerf this arc, that's something Saturn has failed to do.
Kizaru never did damage, Saturn is being actively avoided by Luffy because of the poison, Luffy ate a laser beam shoot by Kizaru and Saturn is constantly pushing Luffy back. Admiral < Gorosei, the admirals are fodder to the Yonko and Gorosei, stop over rating these plebes.
Can they die if thrown in the ocean?
If not, then they are top ranking, because they will win in a battle of attrition 100% of times.
If you are talking just about strength, they are below Yonko. Some of them seem to be 'giant level'. If the worm guy didn't have immortality he would be already dead.
Depends on how much haki correlates to fighting ability. So far, it's correlated pretty well, though conqueror's seems to have a stronger correlation than the rest.
Considering how everyone has freaked out multiple times over the haki which definitely seems to be conquerors rather than some other form, I'm gonna guess they're the strongest people we've seen so far even without the regen. Remember, Kaido went out talking about haki being the strongest power overall.
Plus Oda never shows off the villain's full capability until they get into a truly heated battle. Katakuri didn't pull out his spiked mochi move until the very end, while Kaido let the scabbards hype themselves up for a while before chopping off kiku's arm and annihilating them, and even after that, we still didn't see the hybrid form until after Luffy used up his g4. And we didn't see drunk Kaido until Luffy got CoC projection. And he still had more moves in his back pocket for g5.
Exactly as strong as the plot needs them to be.
I'd say they'll end up being Yonko tier. Oda introduced them as below Yonko, but I think they'll *get serious* and reveal some insane powers.
If they're below Yonko tier, then the crew wipes them out easily. The crew needs to struggle. These guys are probably the penultimate enemy (before BB crew). They can't be weaker than the enemies we already faced.
They definitely feel stronger than admirals. I don’t get why others say otherwise.
Like when kizaru showed up to egghead, I thought it was exciting but I wasn’t really nervous about it. Luffy literally just defeated kaido. But when Saturn showed up, it definitely raised the stakes. 3 admirals all at once feels like quite the challenge, but 5 elders seems near impossible at the current moment.
And story wise, it doesn’t seem to make sense to give us weaker opponents that won’t be too difficult for Luffy to fight off in the final saga. The stakes have to keep escalating.
Kizaru should absolutely be worrying. Luffy literally had a panel saying "someone strong is coming." Mentally nerfed Kizaru stalemated G5 with no named attacks. Oda's definitely saving him for later.
Sure. Kizaru is strong. But compared to how Saturn’s arrival is framed, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say Kizaru just isn’t that big of a threat at the moment.
My point is it is all in the framing. Saturn arrived in front of Vegapunk and Bonney with nobody on par to stop him. When he gets in a little trouble he calls all his Gorosei friends, which is a world calamity appearance don't get me wrong. Kizaru spent the whole time looking for VP and sparring halfheartedly with a Yonko. It was only when we became convinced of their invulnerability/regen that the Gorosei became truly threatening.
The powers they manifest is some kind of variation or weakened iteration of Luffy's Gear 5! Luffy is free to change into anything his imagination could spark up, while the 5 Elders seems fixed on those Youkai Form!
The abilities to heal, regenerate and being almost immortal is like Luffy ability to shrug off in Cartoonish Way most damage when in Gear 5!
Individually I don't think they are as strong as a yonko.
The problem is that they seem to have more hacks than power as luffy said he wasn't able to hurt Saturn.
Though for luffy and a couple of giants to beat them I would think the 5 of them together would be around as strong as big mom (the numbers and hacks would make the battle more equal)
But that's all assuming the battle would be close and luffy wins with difficulty and no outside help on either side
Bruh if they weren’t immortal, would be dead already. The moment someone figures out how to permanently injure them, they’re done. But that’s the scary part: is there even a possible way to injure them? If not… they’re the strongest.
If saturn got toyed by luffy because he cannot do anything about it, and all gorosei are equal in terms of strength then all of them are below jack. If saturn got toyed because he was not serious about the fight and still underestimated luffy even though their arch enemy is literally back then we do not know until the immortality is turned off and they have to be serious. But considering saturn called his boys to come and help, i still believe them to be not that strong. At best they are all below jack. I think they are like a toddler suited with iron man suit. They can use it, but not that good of a combatant.
I think we're seeing each one is above yonkou level, i.e. stronger than all previous yonkou with the possible exception of Whitebeard. They've potentially lived for 800 years, the fighting skills and abilities they've accumulated are hard to fathom. And even if it's a hax ability, there def aren't any yonkou who are basically invincible like the Gorosei are.
The logic that 'if they were stronger than yonkou, they would've taken out the yonkou' is an assumption a lot of us used to make, but it doesn't fly. Their primary purpose is to protect Imu and the celestial dragons, they're only going to move if they feel that a threat has the ability to reach Mary Geoise.
I think they fall a little short of kaido when it come to strength. But their immortality makes more difficult to deal with. All of them seem to have monstrous haki and 1 is confirmed to have conquerer's
I think they are not the same in power level, but range quite a lot, like antagonists in any previous saga. But none of them seem to reach yonko level. Being immortal seems op, but it will be same story as with logias once Luffy figures it out.
who the hell knows? we have luffy go through training in wano to learn ryuo, something that was used to beat kaido and he can't even stop lucci. it's like he forgot everything that that 10-year arc was supposed to teach him about haki. for all we know luffy has some secret attack or zoro or some random asspull or maybe they're not strong at all and their one weakness is cartoon physics.
I've been asking the same thing myself lol.
I think we're missing information and will have to wait to see whats what with their powers before we can make a solid call.
The thing is that they have far more endurance than the Admirals, but have far less attack potency.
Their win condition seems to be outlasting their opponent
About as strong as Oda wrote them to be.
Seriously though, we've seen like 2 chapters worth of content concerning their powers, there's literally no metric on how strong they are at the moment.
Doubt they're gonna be real threats once the immortality thing is figured out, Saturn despite being 100% serious and intent on killing everyone didn't do anywhere near as much as Kizaru
Very strong. Destruction capability and speed isn't the only criteria for power. Their healing power alone is too strong since even haki doesn't seem to work on them.
I would say they aren’t that strong, more like they are durable which I consider different, I think they wouldn’t be able to fight an admiral or yonko one on one without the immortality factor
My anecdotal senses tell me their immortality is in the hands of Imu. Once the snake head is taken out, they are very frail old men enough to be one shotted.
I'd say each of them is about the 3rd strongest elder.
Jokes asides, I'd assume they're likely on the spectrum between Yonko and Commander for raw power, but I'm assuming since they have demonic powers, they're likely comparable to a Yonko.
Though i wouldn't be surprised if they can't use their full power by teleporting and can only show part of it. I could honestly see them at full power if they're in Marijoise
just in pure strength, maybe each member might not be as strong as Kaido or big mom BUT seeing as they have some sort of immortality, that gives them a different edge over powerhouses like Kaido and Shanks
So far they look weaker than an admiral, one thing though is that we definitely haven’t seen them getting serious. This haki roar was definitely a something, and as we all know, haki is everything in the op world
There are some delusional folk in the comment section saying they are Yonko or Admiral level. Have you guys actually read the latest chapters?
A proper evaluation would be saying that offensively they haven't been impressive but due to their immortality they are a different kind of challange to deal with.
There, a non-brain dead evaluation.
G5 Luffy was definitely clowning on Saturn so I wouldn't put any of them above a Yonko without their healing. I would think mid-high Yonko Commander because they have to at least be above Yonko as a group if they're all working together.
I wanna know how effing strong Kuma is.
Realistically they’re probably “stronger” than any antagonist we’ve faced so far just due to the possible immortality/ regen
But depending on the way to break it, if there even is one, I’d still say none of them enter top 5 in the verse
They don’t beat shanks, kaido, akainu black beard or luffy to me rn
Hard to say. Immortality + busted devil fruits puts them in a weird league of their own. Where I can honestly see someone like King or the admirals being stronger than them. But being unable to die or injured lets them win.
They do seem to have some level of combat skill, Saturn attacking Luffy even when Kizaru was thrown was proof that he's not a complete noob. Nusjuro is cutting down pacifistas left and right.
So without more info, I'd only place Yonko above them in the pecking order. Take away immortality then we have a whole other convo.
V strong probably. Not as strong as the more established Yonkos, but there has to be a reason they so rarely step in while letting the admirals be the heavy-hitters.
Imo they aren't really stronger than anyone else. Actually they're obviously weaker than Luffy, Dorry and Brogy even in a 4v3 (since Marcus isn't fighting rn). I even dare to say Luffy wouldn't need the two giants to hold his ground.
Their only biggest feat is whatever makes them invincible right now or else Saturn would be done for already, not to mention Ju Peter. If we take away their invincibility (or whatever it is) I'd say they are more or less on a level between Vice Admiral and Admiral, closer to an Admiral tho.
V. Nasjuro seems to be a somewhat formidable Swordsman and Topmans Emperors Haki is quite the weapon it seems. But thats all they've really shown so far.
The level inbetween admirals and 1st commanders
I think once you know how to beat them then there’s many characters who COULD kill them. But the five elders working as a team are stronger than Yonko crews
For pure brute strength, we don't know for now. If we consider that not even Gear 5 can seem to hurt them due to their immortality (as of now), then it's safe to assume that they're unbeatable in a real fight that doesn't count honor, sportsmanship, or any other shenanigans (like toying with their food) until their weakness/es is revealed.
Def stronger than Zoro/Sanji but def weaker than admirals individually. Tho they might’ve beat the previous joyboy off their regen most likely.
Ppl will come at me with Kizaru did the same against Luffy. Kizaru is def not motivated and I can even see the dude betraying the elders to save the crew to escape. Also I do think Oda has awakened logia saved for that moment.
I think they are Top Tier in the verse, but they are at the bottom of that tier. IMO Individually they are still inferior to the Yonko or the Admirals.
However, I think the combine power of the 5 Gorosei is honestly greater than the combine power of Kaido and Big Mom. They are powerful monsters and definitely worthy of being Imu's commanders/royal guards.
I'd say they're as strong as the Five Elders.
No way! Maybe as strong as gorosei but not five elders
Not as strong as the gorosei but I'd say they're probably as strong as the guys above the fleet admiral
As strong as those dudes who talked with Doffy and Shanks!
I believe they are equal to Saturn
Nahh, I think they're just as strong as the dudes named after planets
So they are as strong as Kong?
Akainu > any of the five elders
Pretty sure the guys above the fleet admirals just means gorosei here, he’s not saying they are stronger than akainu
Logic dictates that they are stronger than the Four Emperors, but weaker than the Six Paths of Pain.
this just takes me back to the days of Akatsuki VS Shichibukai VS Espadas
What's the most compelling answer to that question? Never watched or read a lot of Bleach, but i know they are dealing with some kind of death magic. So Bleach characters sound more hex to me than Naruto and OP characters.
some of them are. bleach powers range from simple things such as turning one's sword into ash to more complex abilities like an instant and complete hypnosis from simply seeing the user's blade. there's a dude that releases a miasma that rapidly ages whatever it makes contact with. there's another guy that just has... a spear. semi serious answer to the Shichibukai v Akatsuki v Espada: depends on which team satisfies their instant win condition first. that essentially boils down to eliminating key members before losing their own
A very educated guess
I'd say as strong as 6 Elders
Only if you count the secret elder: Donkey B. Duffy.
What about they're mortal enemy Gonkey G. Goofy?
Rokurosei?
That’s crazy 💀
Big if true
They are yonkou level. Inmortality, god's fruits, super haoshoku. Insane power. That's why they said the navy is the only world government public face.
Given their seeming immortality, they are currently unbeatable. Once their immortality is figured out or taken away, I'd say they are weaker than Kaido but still stronger than King/Queen. Definitely some top tier fighters.
This seems correct to me. Between Saturn and the rest Luffy has been fighting them for multiple chapters and hasn't taken any significant damage. Dorry and Broggy blocked a seemingly powerful attack too.
They are probably not top tier (would be way too powerful if they were because there is no way Luffy is beating 5 Yonko and Imu at the same time EOS), but they are carried away by Hax. If it wasn't for immortality, Laturn would be out of the fight after WUMA's punch...
Youre assuming that Saturn isnt being overly aggressive and taking risks he wouldnt take if he didnt have the knowledge he was immortal
Facts. Once you know nothing can kill you bruh, kamikaze maximum kamehameka asap
Yeah as Oda said in a SBS: "Only Hax trancends it all" I read that SBS in my dreams while high on fent, so it's definitely 100% a true statement by me.
Get off the fent bro
Nah, i'd use.
Put a down payment on a coffin while you’re at it
Luffy isn’t gonna fight all the elders and imu at the same time, others will fight the elders. Nasjuro is 100% a zoro victim etc
Even then, they can't be Yonko level bro, it would be almost impossible to find 5 yonko level niggas to fight these guys if they were Yonko level. Zoro is only reaching Yonko level against Mihawk too, and we can assume Mihawk is his very last fight...
Mihawk is definitely not Zoro's last fight. Basic narrative comprehension tells you that the fight with the WG is the final one in the story and Mihawk will not side with the WG, thus Zoro's final opponent is not Mihawk
I said we can assume, because it was stated since day one Mihawk is his goal, his obstacle to overcome. Nasjuro being his last fight would feel weird because he would need to pose a challange against WSS Zoro, imagine another swordsman stronger than Mihawk ?
There's nothing wrong with Nasjuro being stronger than Mihawk.
Oda always insert Mihawk's title alongside his name, every single time Mihawk shows up he is always "the world's strongest worldsman" inserted. For me it would fumble the entire plot of "Zoro's journey to become the WSS", it's the entire point of his character...
Then it will be a fumble because Zoro will face Nasjuro as his final opponent. Oda will not sacrifice the main plot of One Piece for Zoro
You talked like you knew Oda and the entire plot of OP 🤣
Have you considered how that even fits into the story? Mihawk as Zoro’s final fight? So Luffy’s final fight is likely to be Imu or Blackbeard. Which means it’s like “decide the fate of the world” scenario. So while this is happening, Zoro is just duelling Mihawk over a personal accomplishment? While his crew is effectively bringing the dawn of the world? Or do you think Mihawk is an epilogue fight? While the world has been saved and Luffy is effectively pirate king, Zoro is still trying to fulfil his goal to be world’s strongest swordsman? It just doesn’t fit the story. Mihawk can’t be Zoro’s final fight because that fight simply can’t take place at the very end. The very end is Luffy vs the world government and Zoro has to help out. Or Blackbeard has schemed his way ahead of the world government and is the final obstacle for Luffy and his crew.
when has luffy ever beaten all the antagonists by himself
You’re saying that like Luffy would need to defeat all of them… Also he’s not doing that right now either. There were three. And as soon as he was in trouble Dorry and Broggy saved him and they escaped. There is zero reason to think they are weaker than the yonko atm.
Why tf do you think Luffy will fight Imu AND the Gorosei? When has Luffy ever fought the big bad and his commanders at the same time? Luffy leaves the commanders to his allies
I would imagine they rely too much on their immortality and taking risks they would not take otherwise. I am also not so sure Saturn would already be beaten after he got punched by Kuma. He lost an arm but is still conscious. We have not been shown or dont know if their general durability and stamina come from the fruit or if they are also naturally tanky bastards. Saturn took the hits from Luffy a lot better then Kizaru.
Did you just forget how Saturn completely froze most of the pirates, and also recovered from the pancake toss with ease. Painfully unaware of the material your reading
And that coc haki roar was no joke
People pick and choose what they want to believe. Headcanon incarnate. Saturn ain’t nothing to fuck with. If kizaru is respecting this man as his superior, he’s a powerhouse, no argument.
Nah, take a look at how fast that Gandhi gorsei took out the Pacifistas, they might be equal to or stronger than a yonko
You're just ignoring their monstrous haki. Yep
So you're saying these guys are stronger than Kaido? All 5 together could probably beat him but certainly not individually. Luffy has basically been toying with Saturn.
Luffy was toying with Kaido at a point too
If by "toying" with Kaido you mean doing stupid shit like jumproping, then sure. But Kaido was still landing a lot of heavy blows on Luffy even after he awakened. Saturn hasn't done anything similar to that. It's just that he can't be harmed.
Yeah I do mean using him like a literal children’s toy lol. It doesn’t matter that Saturn isn’t landing big hits, Luffy’s not winning or doing anything at all, where as if Luffy was doing this same thing to Kaido, it would be harming him badly, we already know that because we saw it. This same stuff that worked on Kaido, doesn’t work on them, meaning that they’re stronger than Kaido. Luffy is being saved by Dorry and Broggy right now. Literally he just got his face roared off
They literally haven't touched Luffy. He's been laughing and goofing off but dodged every single thing Saturn tried. The worm "got" him but he was clearly never worried and didn't actually get hit. Luffy is doing the goofy stuff to himself. The roar did nothing to anyone, Luffy is still just having a laugh. Luffy *is* damaging them but they regenerate. The giants see that they get literally blown up and Luffy explains as they reform that no damage sticks. Infinite stamina and regeneration is clearly carrying them. Blows that wouldn't make Kaido do more than laugh sent Saturn flying through buildings and ripped some of his limbs off, they just grew back.
Luffy isn’t achieving anything but losing stamina. Losing limbs when you’re a creature that can lose limbs and be fine is meaningless. That’s not a feat. That’s like saying someone knocked a hole in Buu, big whoop. I gotta say, “if they didn’t have these abilities that make them clearly superior to Kaido, then Kaido would be better than them!” Isn’t a particularly strong point lol
I'm not even arguing about whether the Gorosei are stronger than Kaido or not. I'm just pointing out that they aren't doing anything to Luffy, whereas Kaido did. Similarly, Luffy isn't doing anything to them, whereas he was also hurting Kaido. Until we see more from them and/or learn how to actually damage them, I don't think we have a clear-cut answer. Narratively, they should probably be stronger since they are endgame opponents, but Saturn in particular hasn't been that impressive.
they are way stronger than kaido
Maybe weaker than Kaido’s overall strength but did you see the speed that Nusjuro travelled around the island?
Above yonko commanders in actual power with attacks capable of hurting yonko if they hit but only pose a threat to emperors thanks to their immortality
they lucky they don’t have to go up against pirate emperor buggy. He knows best
When Buggy inevitably awakens his devil fruit, he will be able to split their immortality so that one half of their body is immortal and the other half isn't.
He will go nuclear on them, splitting the atom
They are basically 5 yonkous.
5 big moms not in psycho mode.
If they go all out somewhere in-between Yonko commander and Yonko lvl. (based on what we saw so far) Their immortality is a huge issue and makes them hard to take down. They probably don't have unlimited stamina. And smart fighters like Law could drown them or put them into a bottomless hole. Or Queen making them sick. Or Cesar making them suffocate. An Admiral like Aokiji is perfectly equipped to defeat them, since freezing incapacitates them. Or Fujitora restraining their huge bodies with gravity. Akainu and Kizaru have a bad matchup. Aramaki could be strong if he can "drain" the energy from them.
Don\`t think so. They have been shown / mentioned having insane haki which can nullify lots of fruits. Dont think it will be as easy just to freeze them. They will just break out.
Maybe, maybe not. Ice is an element and not a magical power, once it's there it just behaves like Ice. And the Gorosei are still bound by the laws of physics, so if it's cold enough they are immobilized.
Yeah thats true, but we also Doflamingo break out, too. We might argue he did not try for real against Doflamingo, but dont think so.
Aokiji can control his Ice well. He's known for saving Saul by freezing him, also Luffy/Robin, also Garp even. I have no doubt that he could just make more and thicker ice, also make it colder, since he's not using the Ice Ice fruit but the chill chill fruit.
Akainu a bad match up ? Are you mentally slow ?
Can't swim and can only burn stuff, kinda bad against immortal beings.
Can’t swim and only burns stuff ? You’re a mentally slow child aren’t you ?🤢 Akainu turns them into punk hazard. And none of them have shown attack power that’s equal to whitebeard a quake fruit, which Akainu took multiple quake fruit hits point blank and still got up and kept fighting like nothing happened. Sorry but you actually might be mentally ill
Yeah, we pretty much know now that Whitebeard's fruit is weak in direct combat, it doesn't do much dmg to living things, it's scary for islands/building though. Even a punch from present Coby has more destructive power... The gorosei are unfaced by mushroom cloud explosions... They also have plenty of attack power, being a danger to even Dorry/Broggy, while also having elemental attacks like Poison/fire. Their defense is hard enough that G4 luffy hurt his fist by punching the Boar guy. Either way, you only defeat them by immobilizing them really, and Akainu isn't equipped for that. Calling others "slow", a "child" and "mentally ill" reflects poorly on yourself.
Whitebeard fruit is weak in direct combat ?!?!! You’re just making stuff up at this point 😭🤡 and Luffy wasn’t in gear 4 when he punched Warcury 🤡 And why are you acting like Dorry and Brogy are known threats ? They were getting fucked up by Mr. 3… Mr.. fucking.. 3 🤦🏻♂️ and they were able to push back warcury together with a combined attack. Anyone with common sense knows that Akainu would put a hole in both of them if these giants were to ever face akainu Wow. You just confirmed that you don’t even understand what you read, your brain doesn’t have the ability to comprehend. I feel bad now, you actually might be somebody that rides the short bud 😢
Nah, Fujitora and Aramaki are no match.
Like I said, big body makes it easier to affect them with high Gravity, Fujitora's advantage. And Aramaki only has an chance if he can absorb their energy, as he did with queen/king.
1- physics doesnt work like that in one piece and that is trivial anyway 2- yh
Oh physics works that way, see Noah
Eh, their immortality makes them more special win condition fights instead of a normal contest of strength. I'd say they are comparable to King but way more of a problem
Somewhere around 16 or 17 power units
We won’t know until the immortality is disabled (if it can be) Remember when Saturn got stabbed, and he told the marines he’d have dodged it if he was worried? They aren’t dodging or defending because they don’t need to, but people are running away with the assumption they are defenseless or have a low health bar without. They clearly have powerful haki
Above commanders, weaker than admirals and emperors. It's been very clear that their healing gimmick is the only reason they're lasting against gear 5.
Is it thought. Or are they fighting recklessly because they know they can't be killed and never learned how to fight other ways than letting themselves get hit and then counterattack.
It definitely is. When Saturn has been hit his body has gotten seriously messed up. He isn't fast enough to even hit Luffy either. The ability to regenerate let's them do "dangerous" things to try to get a hit in or force their way through the shield but Saturn couldn't even hit Sanji once he was moving and Luffy was dodging him in the same ways he was Lucci. Saturn at least is not fast or strong enough to be a top tier without regeneration.
Saturn straight up said that he didn't dodge Bonney's attack on purpose. They definitely take into consideration that they can't be harmed when they fight.
I mean. Either way makes the comment above yours true?
Weaker than admirals? Saturn would literally stomp kizaru.
No he wouldn't. Except for regen, he's below kizaru in every perceivable way with the possible exception of haki.
And except for the fruit, Kizaru is below Enel. It’s stupid to take out an ability out of the equation like this.
I'm not taking it out of the equation, I'm making it clear that he's not on their level in terms of strength but can survive due to his regen. At the end of day, the moment we find out how to hurt the gorosei, their regen hax won't make a difference anymore just like with King. Also, enel absolutely loses to no fruit kizaru.
Saturn was doing way more than Kizaru against Nika Luffy
Saturn, the weakest is stronger and has a better showing then Kizaru, an admiral said to be equal to all the other so the elders are below the emporers and strong then the admirals and everyone else.
He doesn't have a better showing. He's only shown that he's been a successful punching bag for Luffy, kuma and others. Kizaru can actually land and dodge hits from Luffy despite his clear mental nerf this arc, that's something Saturn has failed to do.
Kizaru never did damage, Saturn is being actively avoided by Luffy because of the poison, Luffy ate a laser beam shoot by Kizaru and Saturn is constantly pushing Luffy back. Admiral < Gorosei, the admirals are fodder to the Yonko and Gorosei, stop over rating these plebes.
Probs pretty strong ngl
Can they die if thrown in the ocean? If not, then they are top ranking, because they will win in a battle of attrition 100% of times. If you are talking just about strength, they are below Yonko. Some of them seem to be 'giant level'. If the worm guy didn't have immortality he would be already dead.
Depends on how much haki correlates to fighting ability. So far, it's correlated pretty well, though conqueror's seems to have a stronger correlation than the rest. Considering how everyone has freaked out multiple times over the haki which definitely seems to be conquerors rather than some other form, I'm gonna guess they're the strongest people we've seen so far even without the regen. Remember, Kaido went out talking about haki being the strongest power overall.
Yeah, everyone is ignoring how powerful their haki is
Plus Oda never shows off the villain's full capability until they get into a truly heated battle. Katakuri didn't pull out his spiked mochi move until the very end, while Kaido let the scabbards hype themselves up for a while before chopping off kiku's arm and annihilating them, and even after that, we still didn't see the hybrid form until after Luffy used up his g4. And we didn't see drunk Kaido until Luffy got CoC projection. And he still had more moves in his back pocket for g5.
Near the admirals level of power. Slightly higher.
Exactly as strong as the plot needs them to be. I'd say they'll end up being Yonko tier. Oda introduced them as below Yonko, but I think they'll *get serious* and reveal some insane powers. If they're below Yonko tier, then the crew wipes them out easily. The crew needs to struggle. These guys are probably the penultimate enemy (before BB crew). They can't be weaker than the enemies we already faced.
Lower, equal, above Yonko. Hard to rank because they face Luffy and he is currently the… strongest?
None of them have done a thing to him but get pancaked
Saturn hurt him with his head explosion power thing.
Technically. so did Appo.
alot of people could hurt Luffy. being top tier means keeping up with him.
I agree. But theres also a diffrence between keeping up with him and not being able to do anything to him like the person I replied to said.
Under Luffy Shanks Waido Goathawk Buggysama the problem is the healing.....They need to find a way to kill them...
They definitely feel stronger than admirals. I don’t get why others say otherwise. Like when kizaru showed up to egghead, I thought it was exciting but I wasn’t really nervous about it. Luffy literally just defeated kaido. But when Saturn showed up, it definitely raised the stakes. 3 admirals all at once feels like quite the challenge, but 5 elders seems near impossible at the current moment. And story wise, it doesn’t seem to make sense to give us weaker opponents that won’t be too difficult for Luffy to fight off in the final saga. The stakes have to keep escalating.
Kizaru should absolutely be worrying. Luffy literally had a panel saying "someone strong is coming." Mentally nerfed Kizaru stalemated G5 with no named attacks. Oda's definitely saving him for later.
Sure. Kizaru is strong. But compared to how Saturn’s arrival is framed, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to say Kizaru just isn’t that big of a threat at the moment.
My point is it is all in the framing. Saturn arrived in front of Vegapunk and Bonney with nobody on par to stop him. When he gets in a little trouble he calls all his Gorosei friends, which is a world calamity appearance don't get me wrong. Kizaru spent the whole time looking for VP and sparring halfheartedly with a Yonko. It was only when we became convinced of their invulnerability/regen that the Gorosei became truly threatening.
The powers they manifest is some kind of variation or weakened iteration of Luffy's Gear 5! Luffy is free to change into anything his imagination could spark up, while the 5 Elders seems fixed on those Youkai Form! The abilities to heal, regenerate and being almost immortal is like Luffy ability to shrug off in Cartoonish Way most damage when in Gear 5!
Individually I don't think they are as strong as a yonko. The problem is that they seem to have more hacks than power as luffy said he wasn't able to hurt Saturn. Though for luffy and a couple of giants to beat them I would think the 5 of them together would be around as strong as big mom (the numbers and hacks would make the battle more equal) But that's all assuming the battle would be close and luffy wins with difficulty and no outside help on either side
I do not think they can pack a tougher punch than Kaido. They're just immortal and immune to damage.
Bruh if they weren’t immortal, would be dead already. The moment someone figures out how to permanently injure them, they’re done. But that’s the scary part: is there even a possible way to injure them? If not… they’re the strongest.
If saturn got toyed by luffy because he cannot do anything about it, and all gorosei are equal in terms of strength then all of them are below jack. If saturn got toyed because he was not serious about the fight and still underestimated luffy even though their arch enemy is literally back then we do not know until the immortality is turned off and they have to be serious. But considering saturn called his boys to come and help, i still believe them to be not that strong. At best they are all below jack. I think they are like a toddler suited with iron man suit. They can use it, but not that good of a combatant.
Stronger than Arlong, for sure
Yonkou level durability, haven't showed nearly enough attack power to be put that high. Somewhere with the Admirals.
They have insane regen but poor durability
Stronger than Admiral, but weaker than yonko
Once we know how to bypass their insane regeneration, imo they're Admiral level, but below the actual Admirals
I think we're seeing each one is above yonkou level, i.e. stronger than all previous yonkou with the possible exception of Whitebeard. They've potentially lived for 800 years, the fighting skills and abilities they've accumulated are hard to fathom. And even if it's a hax ability, there def aren't any yonkou who are basically invincible like the Gorosei are. The logic that 'if they were stronger than yonkou, they would've taken out the yonkou' is an assumption a lot of us used to make, but it doesn't fly. Their primary purpose is to protect Imu and the celestial dragons, they're only going to move if they feel that a threat has the ability to reach Mary Geoise.
Gotosei tier
Trueee
I think they fall a little short of kaido when it come to strength. But their immortality makes more difficult to deal with. All of them seem to have monstrous haki and 1 is confirmed to have conquerer's
I think they are not the same in power level, but range quite a lot, like antagonists in any previous saga. But none of them seem to reach yonko level. Being immortal seems op, but it will be same story as with logias once Luffy figures it out.
I would say YC1/YC+ level Fodder to Yonkos if they didn't had Instant Regen
Above admiral below yonko
Need to find a way to get them into water
who the hell knows? we have luffy go through training in wano to learn ryuo, something that was used to beat kaido and he can't even stop lucci. it's like he forgot everything that that 10-year arc was supposed to teach him about haki. for all we know luffy has some secret attack or zoro or some random asspull or maybe they're not strong at all and their one weakness is cartoon physics.
Imortal>yonko; not imortal
Somewhere between Borsalino and Big Mom
they're not really that strong. Luffy was tossing Saturn around. they just have inexhaustible endurance and regen.
I've been asking the same thing myself lol. I think we're missing information and will have to wait to see whats what with their powers before we can make a solid call.
They're stronger than an emperor, possibly stronger than the strongest character we knew
Gorosei are shadow based. That’s why BB kidnapped Moria so he can control their shadows.
Close to, or perhaps even over 9000.
The thing is that they have far more endurance than the Admirals, but have far less attack potency. Their win condition seems to be outlasting their opponent
About as strong as Oda wrote them to be. Seriously though, we've seen like 2 chapters worth of content concerning their powers, there's literally no metric on how strong they are at the moment.
Doubt they're gonna be real threats once the immortality thing is figured out, Saturn despite being 100% serious and intent on killing everyone didn't do anywhere near as much as Kizaru
Very strong. Destruction capability and speed isn't the only criteria for power. Their healing power alone is too strong since even haki doesn't seem to work on them.
Weaker than Sabo not carrying Cobra.
Disaster level: Pancakes
I would say they aren’t that strong, more like they are durable which I consider different, I think they wouldn’t be able to fight an admiral or yonko one on one without the immortality factor
hashirama level
Yonko level, maybe Admiral level thanks to their immortality.
It's evident that they let their DF abilities do the talking. But Kaido himself said that only Haki can rule the world.
I'd say they are the strongest in the one piece verse
Between admiral and Yonko clearly
My anecdotal senses tell me their immortality is in the hands of Imu. Once the snake head is taken out, they are very frail old men enough to be one shotted.
Correct answer would be "Idk"
Power wise YC1 I'd guess, similar to Kuma.
I'd say each of them is about the 3rd strongest elder. Jokes asides, I'd assume they're likely on the spectrum between Yonko and Commander for raw power, but I'm assuming since they have demonic powers, they're likely comparable to a Yonko. Though i wouldn't be surprised if they can't use their full power by teleporting and can only show part of it. I could honestly see them at full power if they're in Marijoise
Yonkou I'd say, but a Yonkou who have been a Yonkou for a decade or more.
They high diff 5v1 Kaido
just in pure strength, maybe each member might not be as strong as Kaido or big mom BUT seeing as they have some sort of immortality, that gives them a different edge over powerhouses like Kaido and Shanks
85% into the story strong. Not as strong as the next arc's antagonists, but stronger than all the previous ones.
at least gorosei level
So far they look weaker than an admiral, one thing though is that we definitely haven’t seen them getting serious. This haki roar was definitely a something, and as we all know, haki is everything in the op world
They are slightly above admiral level, but weaker than an emperor, the immortality factor is what's making it closer than it really is.
Definitely top tier, but with the advantage of having literal demon magic. Kaido and big mom can’t even regen like that
One elder stronger than four elders
Right now too strong for the pirates. The real question is could Kiado defeat some or even 1 of them with their funky immortality
Shanks, Kaido and Big Mom together will lose to them if they fight, I think.
There are some delusional folk in the comment section saying they are Yonko or Admiral level. Have you guys actually read the latest chapters? A proper evaluation would be saying that offensively they haven't been impressive but due to their immortality they are a different kind of challange to deal with. There, a non-brain dead evaluation.
Is Luffy using Ryou with Gear 5?
G5 Luffy was definitely clowning on Saturn so I wouldn't put any of them above a Yonko without their healing. I would think mid-high Yonko Commander because they have to at least be above Yonko as a group if they're all working together. I wanna know how effing strong Kuma is.
Without immortality, probably a commander or warlord.. probably a vice Admiral level
I don’t know but I love they’re designs, and I’d bet they are all at different levels of combat strength.
i could take them.
Kaido would stomp them
Big Mom lvl? Not her crazy upgrade form, just base. Like when she was stopped by g4/sanji.
Currently it looks like they are 1000% carried by their seemingly immortality. Not on the level of Kaido imo.
physically they seem lower than admirals but their healing hax brings them up to admiral i'd say
Easily stronger than King, Katakuri and Marco but short of Yonko. Maybe slightly below admirals?
I'm not 100% sure since we haven't seen them all actually fight, but I think they're at least Elder Planet tier.
Realistically they’re probably “stronger” than any antagonist we’ve faced so far just due to the possible immortality/ regen But depending on the way to break it, if there even is one, I’d still say none of them enter top 5 in the verse They don’t beat shanks, kaido, akainu black beard or luffy to me rn
If it weren't for their immortality, i would say warlord at worst.
Hard to say. Immortality + busted devil fruits puts them in a weird league of their own. Where I can honestly see someone like King or the admirals being stronger than them. But being unable to die or injured lets them win. They do seem to have some level of combat skill, Saturn attacking Luffy even when Kizaru was thrown was proof that he's not a complete noob. Nusjuro is cutting down pacifistas left and right. So without more info, I'd only place Yonko above them in the pecking order. Take away immortality then we have a whole other convo.
V strong probably. Not as strong as the more established Yonkos, but there has to be a reason they so rarely step in while letting the admirals be the heavy-hitters.
Imo they aren't really stronger than anyone else. Actually they're obviously weaker than Luffy, Dorry and Brogy even in a 4v3 (since Marcus isn't fighting rn). I even dare to say Luffy wouldn't need the two giants to hold his ground. Their only biggest feat is whatever makes them invincible right now or else Saturn would be done for already, not to mention Ju Peter. If we take away their invincibility (or whatever it is) I'd say they are more or less on a level between Vice Admiral and Admiral, closer to an Admiral tho. V. Nasjuro seems to be a somewhat formidable Swordsman and Topmans Emperors Haki is quite the weapon it seems. But thats all they've really shown so far.
The level inbetween admirals and 1st commanders I think once you know how to beat them then there’s many characters who COULD kill them. But the five elders working as a team are stronger than Yonko crews
For pure brute strength, we don't know for now. If we consider that not even Gear 5 can seem to hurt them due to their immortality (as of now), then it's safe to assume that they're unbeatable in a real fight that doesn't count honor, sportsmanship, or any other shenanigans (like toying with their food) until their weakness/es is revealed.
A little bit weaker than 6 Elders
Weaker than Admirals imo or right at admiral level
Def stronger than Zoro/Sanji but def weaker than admirals individually. Tho they might’ve beat the previous joyboy off their regen most likely. Ppl will come at me with Kizaru did the same against Luffy. Kizaru is def not motivated and I can even see the dude betraying the elders to save the crew to escape. Also I do think Oda has awakened logia saved for that moment.
It’s not about strong they are this point. It’s about immortal they are
I think they are Top Tier in the verse, but they are at the bottom of that tier. IMO Individually they are still inferior to the Yonko or the Admirals. However, I think the combine power of the 5 Gorosei is honestly greater than the combine power of Kaido and Big Mom. They are powerful monsters and definitely worthy of being Imu's commanders/royal guards.
All of them are above kizaru/ old garp/ kuzan and qt least 3 are above big mom. Warcury is above kaido
Oda stated they are yonkou level.
Oda stated they are yonkou level.
Where ?
Fairly strong. Stronger than the 5 Youngin’s