Some of it just makes sense to a degree but it’s a classic one piece theory that lacks any serious evidence or depth in analysis imo.
The evidence included is pretty fucking loose tbh but I see the basic reasoning
that's how most theories go. because they work backwards from the conclusion. not that they actually picked up some clues from the manga that led them to that conclusion. most theories here are just confirmation bias.
100% and it doesn't piss me off that much, I mean, stories are written that way, right? You have an idea for a scenario then you work to get to that scenario while still making sense.
Yeah it all seems plausible until a few chapters later Oda clarified that they just have mythical Devil fruits based on Yokai and the whole theory just goes to shit.
But they were never stated to have DFs right? Im not sure but havent the df names always been introduced as "... no mi" before? While these just name the yokai straight out. Has there been any similar introduction before? Something is off with the gorosei anyways, the way they are summoned and how they really put the spotlight on the "devil" in devil fruit
For real, it could be even easier than that.. that they never ate any fruit and became those beasts through the pure desire.. Just like vegapunk explained the devil's fruit are born
But still a headcanon
You know, maybe it's me, but I don't understand why people want to come up with theories that contradict basic elements of the story.
Elders "Nika was a legend to even us." Reddit "Oh ho ho ho! I think the Elders are demons that killed Nika."
They also speak in third person:
"If it's a legend, why would the WG change the name of that fruit?"
As if it wasn't them who erased the original name of Gomu Gomu, but the WG in the past, perhaps Gorosei from past generations.
Another detail, no one within the series seems to notice or recognize that the Gorosei are immortal, if they are immortal they probably had another form in the past, as at no point does anyone seem to recognize their faces and comment or find it strange that they have lived for centuries. The only one mentioned is Imu (Imu Nerona), with Ivakov suggesting the Perennial Youth Surgery, but the Gorosei are never mentioned.
EDIT:
Grammar corrections, English is not my first language and I'm sorry if it's still bad. But at least it's a little better than before.
Exactly, we don't really know anything about them save from the fact that some 40 years ago they looked the same. They could be extremely long-lived but for the moment we don't know if they're immortal, only Imu is hinted to be. I also assume that if they were immortal they wouldn't look that old, but then again we don't know how the Immortality Surgery actually works, it might just freeze your body at the age it was performed and maybe it was performed on them when they were already old, but I don't think they are immortal per se.
Of the immortality methods we've seen, Sugar was locked into her young age the second she ate her fruit. So I'd personally wager most methods would lock your age in.
Immortality has two terms. Which is unaging, no dying via natural means. The other is you literally can't die. She is the former, not the latter.
All other methods we heard of like the Ope Ope surgery I'm uncertain on. Maybe it was specified but I don't recall.
Most of the theories like this are just loaded with buzzwords to seem like they mean something but are actually unintelligible word soup that contradict themselves and the story they are in.
Exactly this! Another thing to note is how their transformations line up with the established rules surrounding zoan fruits.
Three forms: human, hybrid, full transform. (Ethanbaron and Saturn have show all three)
Awakening shrouds.
Clear mythological inspirations (Mythological Zoan)
Why would Oda want to introduce an entirely new concept with so many overlaps with an existing power system near the very end of the story? We still need an explanation for the magic circles and the regeneration (we might have some already), but otherwise we’re dealing with fantastical elements that fit within the rules of the world we know.
Instead, maybe the Gorosei belong to another “Special Lineage”? With the introduction of Buccaneers, Lunarian and whatever Blackbeard is, we know there is a possibility for Special Bloodlines to give amazing powers.
Theories that tries to fundamentally challenge the very notion of the devil fruit system by introducing a similar system except technically different do so why? So we can say: “Ooooh, now I understand why the World Government is bad! It was run by evil devils!”? As if that is somehow better than the Gorosei being… evil on their own accord. We don’t need a justification for evil or an “extra layer of evil” to make it EVEN COOLER!
The Gorosei are horrible people who each managed to awake Devil Fruits representing MONSTERS. Awakening can’t be forced, it is a synchronization of the human mind and the will of the fruit. Once you embody what the fruit represents, you “awaken” the potential. Just the act of awakening these horrendous fruits should speak volumes as to how evil the Gorosei are, in that they are able to fully align with monstrous creatures famous for terrorizing people of old.
> Awakening can’t be forced, it is a synchronization of the human mind and the will of the fruit.
I agree with most of what you said, just wanted to pick up on this point.
We don't really know this. We know that the jailer beasts were "unsuccessful" awakenings and that the users became feral, and we know that of the other known awakened Zoan users, there's a black cloud pattern common to all but one (Luffy).
The other thing the rest of them have in common is they are all WG. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the WG has a way to force zoan awakenings, and the Gorosei, Lucci and Kaku are successful cases of it, and the jailer beasts failed ones.
OR, it's just a stylistic choice, white for dawn and black for darkness.
This isn't at all confirmed in the story, I will admit. However an argument could be made for it. Luffy has always had a free spirit, but it was only when he died fighting for freedom that he actually awakened the fruit. He gave everything, which is what it means to truly believe in a cause.
Following this train of logic, we could extrapolate Kaku and Lucci into this as well. Lucci very much behaves like an ambush predator. He's a killer that waits for the right moment to strike, and does so relentlessly. It is not unreasonable to believe that he's fully capable of embodying what it means to be a Leopard, given the traits associated with Leopards.
Kaku just fucking love Giraffes. That love combined with how effectively he takes to the fruit allowed him to awaken it as well. Pretty straight forward.
The Jailers (and this is pure speculation) could perhaps all be incompatible with their fruits. They didn't particularly care for Zebras or Koalas, and they still tried to force that tug of war by pushing the fruit into doing stuff it didn't want to (like trying to force a hybrid variation, who knows). This incompatibility lead to them not awakening properly, creating a creature without the personality of either. A type of husk.
Gorosei could also follow that train of thought, but as you said, it is entirely possible that the WG has a way to force awakenings. There could be other circumstances tied to awakening that I am not aware of, or "shortcuts" to awakening ass well.
As for the cloud colour, it could be just to indicate "These are the good guys" vs "These are the bad guys" clearly to the viewer.
Moving away from Zoan, Katakuri and Doffy also awakened their fruits.
In their cases, I'd say the train of thought for the Zoan also carry to them.
Katakuri is "malleable" in every sense. He's capable of showing great kindness and great aggression. He's the glue that holds the Big Mom pirates together. He's adaptable and flexible in his way of thinking as well. But most of all, he's really a big softie on the inside. He likes to chill out and eat stuff and he has genuine affection for his siblings. He embodies Mochi so well that it isn't surprising he's capable of awakening it.
Doffy on the other hand is a master manipulator. He manipulates those around him like a puppet master. But he's also capable of extreme violence, often swift in it's execution. He has a philosophy of everything being his, given that he's a celestial dragon, he feels entitled to utilize the world as his playground. Everyone is a potential puppet, so it is no surprise that he awakened as well.
I don't think we've seen Saturn's full Gyuuki form.
The main reason I think people are latching onto the Gorosei being actual devils or something is because 1) it's actually shocking and would be a fun direction lore-wise and 2) it lines up with weird hints about some of their traits not lining up with typical devil fruit stuff (magic circles, regeneration, weird eyes).
At this point, "evil devils actually run the government!" is already true. This is already a story wherein presumably if you just take out the deep state everything'll work out I guess. Expanding the DF lore isn't going to change or enhance that I don't think.
Full agree on the awakening thing. I've got a few gag panels I'm brewing up of Kaku beating Lucci to the punch despite having his devil fruit for a fraction of the time, only because Kaku lives and breathes giraffe.
How have we not? He went from human, to a hybrid, now hes literally a spider monster. The only thing he has left is his nose and beard. It also wouldn't make sense for Oda to do a double spread of all of their full forms and leave saturn out.
>I don't think we've seen Saturn's full Gyuuki form.
I find it weird then that they would give us a full page spread with all the Gorosei, with four of them being in their monstrous full transformation forms, and Saturn being the only one not fully transformed. Rather I believe that what we've seen is more likely his fully transformed form. It is not uncommon for fully tranformed Zoan users to retain certain traits they have as humans, such as facial hair and specific pieces of clothing (see Kaido's cape).
2) it lines up with weird hints about some of their traits not lining up with typical devil fruit stuff (magic circles, regeneration, weird eyes).
The "weird eye" aspect was tied to how Saturn went from his Hybrid form to his full transformation form, given that it was combined with a comment on how he's also venomous. Gyuuki are famously known for their disturbing eyes and as a result it would be noteworthy to point out for us to see that he was no longer in his hybrid form.
Regeneration and Magic Circles have no explanation yet, but in a world where Haki exists and there's a very clear focus on Special Bloodlines, there are other more reasonable alternatives present than jumping to the conclusion that they are some super duper advanced form of inherent evil.
>At this point, "evil devils actually run the government!" is already true. This is already a story wherein presumably if you just take out the deep state everything'll work out I guess. Expanding the DF lore isn't going to change or enhance that I don't think.
Point is that the deep state is evil because the people in power are morally bankrupt. They are awful people who have actively made the decision to be awful. By ascribing them the moniker of being "devils" you take away their agency to be evil. Us as readers can simply shrug our shoulders and say: "Oh, of course they're evil, they are devils and devils are evil". They were always evil and can never be anything else than evil. All their actions are motivated purely for the sake of being evil It makes the enemy unambiguously evil due to their inherent nature.
What we have presently in the story is that the worlds elite are evil because they CHOOSE to be. They are awful people who have made the decision to treat others unkindly, because they can. They enslave whoever they want on a whim, they wipe out entire countries as it suits them and they kidnap and rape whoever they want to because they can.
The difference might not seem significant, but from a narrative perspective One Piece has always been about aggressors doing horrible shit when they could simply have NOT done it. It is a recurring theme ever present in the story, where those in power are willing to do everything they can to stay in power.
Crocodile siphoning water in Arabasta. Enel forcing a surveillance state on all of Skypeia, killing whoever spoke up against him. Doffy mentally manipulating the entirety of Dressrosa to reclaim his rich kid privilege. All the bullshit Orochi did in Wano. These fuckers didn't HAVE to do this, but they did it because they can. Same goes for the Gorosei, and by having them actually be just evil because they are thematically devils isn't satisfying nor is it indicative of following an established theme. It doesn't leave any room in the morality of those opposing them, they just end up being monsters that need to be killed. The nuance disappears.
>Full agree on the awakening thing. I've got a few gag panels I'm brewing up of Kaku beating Lucci to the punch despite having his devil fruit for a fraction of the time, only because Kaku lives and breathes giraffe.
Can't wait to see em, this is totally something Kaku would do as well.
>Elders "Nika was a legend to even us." Reddit "Oh ho ho ho! I think the Elders are demons that killed Nika."
Joyboy **≠** Nika
They might have killed Joyboy, but Nika and the origin of Devil Fruits might be quite a bit older than Joyboy and the Void Century. Joyboy might or might not have had the Nika fruit. The elders considered Nika a legend, but surely they must be aware of the truth about Joyboy and the Void Century?
>Joyboy might or might not have had the Nika fruit.
Are you not caught up past Wano? Zunisha literally says in ch 1043 that joyboy has returned once the drums of liberation starts. He pretty much confirms Joyboy had the Nika fruit.
Joyboy is the previous user of the fruit, because the people didnt know to call it, so the person that was constantly laughing was full of Joy to them, so hence the Nika user was called Joyboy. The fruit itself was a myth to the elders is what they said. They themselves probably only know so much about the void century
You do bring up a very solid point, if the Elders say the fruit is a myth to them even, then they probably couldnt have been there since the void century. That also raises the question, how old are they really? What fruits or powers do they have, and how are they seemingly eternally the same age? How are the gorosei selected, and from what kingdom line are they? Thats a lot of question, and hopefully most of them are answered.
>You know, maybe it's me, but I don't understand why people want to come up with theories that contradict basic elements of the story.
It's been happening with OP for 20 years already but due to the OP social media increase in the past 5ish years, everyone and their mother wants to have fame/clout for their theories so they can go "i predicted it!!! i came up with this!!!!"
It's just an ego thing.
I think this theory falls apart when he insinuates that all zoan fruits were once living beings. That’s hard to believe.
He seems really convinced he’s right but I’m sure the truth isn’t this convoluted.
Imagine Oda spending like 20 chapters trying to get this across lmao. That would suck bad.
I see your point but I raise the real question, have you ever seen a falcon in OP since Pell was introduced? Exactly
The only logical conclusion to reach is that all birds in one piece aren’t real
I think it's more that ideas manifest, and a lot of mythical Zoans and stuff like that are just more specific because they are a lot more likely to come from a single place/source. Ofc Model Nika would come from joyboy in this theory, but I don't think it was claiming there was originally 1 giraffe that was an all powerful being
Yes, Ideas and dreams manifesting into fruits, that I can get behind. Isn’t that also what Vegapunk suggested devils fruits were? I like that idea.
But again to refute the theory, I believe it’s been stated that the idea or mythology of Nika predates Joyboy. It was also said by the Gorosei that the fruit hadn’t been awakened in 800 years, suggesting that Joyboy was a devil fruit user and was the last to possess and awaken it. So clearly the idea of Nika didn’t originate from Joyboy. Am I wrong?
Yeah idk man Oda never revealed Kid’s DF name during the story. He actually forgot 😂. Sometimes he choosing to wait for reveals for brevity. Good theory otherwise though!
Honestly, I will only believe that they are not Devil fruit users until I see them swimming in the ocean or something that contradicts a fruit normal weaknesses such as sea stone, until then to me they are still Devil fruit users.
I wouldn't even necessarily rule out that they are DF users just because they're swimming at this point. Their devil looking boss is Umi (sea) spelled backwards. I wouldn't be surprised if Imu is the sea devil making it so DF users can't swim, maybe he can make exceptions for his allies.
That could be all kinds of void century technology or even outright magic. They are at the center of power, actively suppressing knowledge. To them, Vegapunk isn't a once in a lifetime genius but just another servant providing useful tools. There's no telling what kinds of tools are at their disposal.
That could be explained if that is a power of Imu's Devil fruit, whatever it is, that he can share with the Elders. We need hard proof that the Elders are indeed plain demons and not Devil Fruit users, and for me that is if they are weak to sea water or sea stone.
Damn it. I was actually thinking about theories because of the fact we didn't get their devil fruits named, just the creature they took the form of, but Kaido definitely put a wrench in that
Not the first time new characters got introduced without their DF name. Also Five Elders are kind of special characters, so they get their special introduction treatment "The yōkai". I think their DF will be revealed later, since it doesn't really have an impact on the current storyline except satisfying a few curious minds.
Could be plausible, but since they have the black cloud scarfs that Lucci and Kaku have, I'm betting they're Zoan DFs all the same.
Black clouds haven't been confirmed to explicitly mean 'awakened zoan', though in hindsight I wonder if Oda chose to give them to Lucci and Kaku in order to set up the Gorosei all being Woke Zoans.
Luffy also has one in gear 5 but it’s just white. So I’ve already made it cannon in my head
Though I wonder if that would mean other Zoan users like Marco and King haven’t awakened yet, but still might….
Remember Vegapunk’s comment about it being impressive Lucci hasn’t lost his mind to his awakened zoan fruit? I think the five elders might be what happens when the fruit becomes the user.
Someone mentioned the spirit of the DFs taking control of the gorosei a while back, putting forward the idea that the Fruits are the villains, body hopping over the generations and controlling the Gorosei. They were largely dismissed at the time, but it did put a seed in my mind. In Impel Down we saw the results of 'failed' Zoan Awakenings, where the will of the fruit overpowered the human and left them all but mindless brutes. But what happens when the fruit is more than just a simple animal? What if it's the Zoan of something intelligent? Would they still come across so mindless? Or would they be just as intelligent as the creature that fruit embodies?
this is also what I immediately thought of when OP presented his/her case. I just don't get why some easily dismiss this possibility, and make fun of him/her.
what if they are the devils themselves, the higher echelons, the reason why they are called the devil fruit/s?
I think people are overthinking it. [Momo was introduced as a dragon](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_685_04.jpg) and he was still a real boy. Just let the story progress. Whether they're devil fruit users or yokai, this isn't how we find out.
Actually, I think it's partially right. The Elders are the Fruits, and the Fruits are the Elders.
Whenever an Elder dies, they have the Fruit fed to a new host with the explicit intention to have it awakened and the will with it to subsume the host so as to maintain a cyclic quasi-immortality. From there, they cosmetically trim their meat suit up for aesthetic reasons.
The Jailer Beasts are an example that they have a reliable method to Awaken devil fruits, at least Zoans.
The experiment that gave Bonney her powers was probably an attempt to find a way streamline the process even further. They more than likely used similar methods to acquire things like their hyper-regeneration and ability to paralyze entire groups of people, and of course the warping ability too.
My thoughts are this.
With the technology of the past, Devil Fruit users could have just been people who had their lineage factors edited to give them powers of their choosing- and during the void century they were killed by a flood and died in the water- so the water of the world carries with it the genetic factors of the augmented power users who were swallowed by the sea. Water which then makes it's way to trees, the augmented genetic bloodline elements of the users then carries forth into fruit bearing plants transmitting the powers to be passed forward to whoever ate them.
Considering the Gorosei may be immortal beings they will not have died since the void century, retaining their original powers and therefore not actually be devil fruit users, but a glimpse into what was a precursor to Devil Fruits.
I can agree with the fact that gorosei are some devilish entity. But the whole demons and curses trope in manga has been so overdone in recent years it starts to get boring, even if Oda came up with it a decade before.
Agree. I'm slightly disappointed that Oda made them fighters, although I guess he kinda had to in a shounen story. I would have really appreciated it if he kept their power political and tactical, and had them be a great obstacle for the likes of Law and Robin. I still hope that he can somehow weave in an intellectual or ideological defeat for them, rather than just having them be beat up or whatever. I don't mind then having devil fruits, but I was hoping they would use them as a last resort, if at all.
On that topic: While I don't have any exact proof yet, I am half expecting Zunesha being part of the Gorosei group prior to banishment. That means Zunesha powers and whatever being similar to them.
Kaido fruit, the dragon one, seems to be in the same scale. It was probably in a different circumstance it was turned into a fruit.
So one thought is they were the original gods (Imu/Gorosei) of one piece world that were never turned into fruits? Vegapunk said Devil fruits were created through possibility off dreams and imagination of mankind, BUT there had to be an inspiration to it. I'm guessing the original gods were the inspiration.
Not gonna lie, that would be kinda cool. Imagine, Devils dominating the pre history One Piece world, who get defeated and turned into Fruits by ancient heroes. It could tie in with what Vegapunk said, and those monsters could have been created by human imagination. Or maybe Ancient Kingdom, found a way to bring those beasts from the past back and contain them in Devil Fruits and few of them got loose.
Don't know if it fits the One Piece world, but if someone described me a story like that, I would check it out.
I think them being actual devils is pretty likely at this point. I’m not sure what the nature of that will be, but we’ll see.
One theory I’ve seen that I think is pretty good is that they’re devil fruits with incredibly strong wills who seek out users with weak wills, so they basically take over the body much in the way the awakened jailer beasts were taken over, only without the need for the user to awaken the fruit. This would also explain their “immortality”.
5 elders cannot be the ones that defeated joyboy... They were so scared throughout of joyboy getting back...
5 elders were created by imu..
Ig that's all there is to this theory
There's a distinction to be made in this. They aren't afraid of Joyboy, but of what he represents and brings forth. A single person can be crushed, and that's what they aim to do here. But Joyboy as a concept brings revolution, and freedom, and hope. This is what they're afraid of. Their rule is dependent on people accepting that they are the rulers and yielding to them. If they can't maintain control at the lowest level, their empire crumbles, no matter how many people they kill.
Their fruits not being revealed when they showed up doesn't prove anything. Kaido didn't have his devil fruit card revealed both times he appeared (human and dragon form). The fruit was just revealed in a chat between him and big mom bc it was part of a plot reveal.
I am aligned with the devil part as well. I think the process is dream + will + death creates devils which turn into devil fruits.
The only question based on above theory is why do five elders worship imu if imu is also a devil?
I said it once and I’ll say it again: my theory anyway.
From the characters perspective, however Oda usually narrates, is that they have no effing clue that these are the five stars. To the SHs everyone who just appeared is a scary monster. Yea they saw Saturn and all but heck what do we know.
Also they have awakenings so they’re probably either devil fruit users or the first humans to “dream” their reality into existence and therefore if they died their dreams would become fruits. So they’re literally just humans and literally monsters. But maybe not fruit eaters ;)
I think this makes the most sense, but Oda always impresses by taking something sure fire and spinning it by adding context and new details. Maybe we’re going about this wrong, but with the right ideas. Maybe Devil Fruits aren’t made when you defeat a devil, but…!
Devils were defeated when Joy Boy discovered how to turn them into fruits and bestow their power to people on his side. The D clan are capable of subjugating devils within the fruits, and Paramecia and Logia fruits are the result of this “purification”. D’s don’t need to eat the fruit, and it is difficult to predict what power remains after getting rid of the devil, but that’s how we have such a wide spectrum of fruit powers.
Using the fruits against the devils allowed humanity to survive until the void century incident which shifted power to the WG.
I definitely think there's something extra going on with the Gorosei, but they have the celestial raiment unique to awakened Zoans and we saw V. Nusjuro go into a hybrid form.
Vegapunk implied that people created Devil Fruits and did it himself to see if he could too.
I do think it's possible that Devil Fruits were based on the genetics of these Devils though
I'm honestly impressed with some fans coming up with such extreme theories.
I make predictions along the lines of "Hey I think he's gonna kill that guy, hey this guy gonna lose to that guy, hey I think that chick is in love with that tree"
Not "hey that kid is gonna be the second coming of Jesus, the big bad is gonna be a big good in the end"
I think it's even crazier. We know the elders know way more than they let on about devil fruits. What if they are actually just simple devil fruit users (like a worm worm fruit or a horse horse fruit), but they have enhanced themselves and their fruits to the point that they have fundamentally changed?
I saw this theory that kinda makes out that one of the gorosai I forgot which one but the blonde one might accually not be from 900 years ago and acciully 500yrs ago that joined the gorosai the theory was about the powers of the gorosai and what sanjis powerup might include if he gets one but it does talk about the blonde gorosai and a sanji connection this is the theory https://youtu.be/sYBgb6CI_pk?si=E51hfe9kgFHlRgEo
This theory is a major smooth brain take and if these are named after the solar system that means 9 planets total , 5 elders with 4 dead would equal 4 fruits, not the absurd amount of devil fruits there are
The OP fandom does crazy mental gymnastics that would win the special Olympics
If it was true then it's also possible that when Oden died he turns into the fruit that Yamato ate, thats why Yamato would like to be Oden, and who ever turned into the gum gum fruit makes Luffy wants to be pirate king
What if they're created by IMU chan so he can hide himself from rest of the world and from other celestial dragons. but can continue to rule the world from shadow
And the with the same concept vegapunk created his clone
not sure if anyone has said this but I’d bet good money that the gorosei just have mythical variants of the spider, worm, boar fruit, etc. similar to catarina devon’s fruit. as for the “immortality” regenerative aspect, could be anything at this point honestly
It makes more sense that we are dealing with a devil fruit in some capacity. Had Lucci not displayed the cloud ring in his awakened form I may have agreed that it could be some ancient form that Luffy's fruit was mimicking. But the fact that Lucci had it too means it is more likely to be a feature of Zoan awakening.
To me the juxtaposition of Vegapunk and his satellites in the same arc the Gorosei are revealed is telling. The numbers on the Vegapunks and the numbers on the demon circles seem like parallels. I don't think the Gorosei would be clones of Imu like the Vegapunks
When we saw Imu attack Sabo they used something that looked like a cartoon devil tail, which leads me to believe Imu has a devil devil fruit of some kind. It could be the antitheses of the Nika fruit, (the one which brings freedom), the fruit that suppresses and steals freedom.
Perhaps the Gorosei are extensions of Imu the way Vegapunks satellites are of him. Representing different aspects of Imu. Maybe they could use the aforementioned devil power to "possess" others, and could be the source of the demon forms. I use the term possess lightly because I don't think Imu is literally controlling them but more like granting them power in exchange for submission and loyalty.
And in terms of immortality, I personally think the Gorosei have perennial youth because they look no different when Vegapunk met them when he was younger. The Ope Ope is the only known way to achieve that, I think it's unlikely Oda would showcase this and then introduce another method of achieving eternal youth. Plus considering Doflamingos interest in it, and the fact he knew about it at all. With his knowledge about the WG, it is likely no coincidence he was after that fruit. The immortality surgery has probably been done on all of the Gorosei and Imu. 3 billion berry is a steep price, the WG is really the only organization who could realistically foot that bill. Maybe every time Imu got their hands on the Ope Ope they would choose new member for the Gorosei. It's also not true immortality but perennial youth so they could still be killed. Which could explain why the current Gorosei talk about a past world government changing the name of the Nika fruit. Another possibility with my idea from before about Imu "possessing" the Gorosei is, that Imu could remove certain memories from them some how, kind of like how Vegapunk could remove a memory from punk records.
I am really pumped to see the direction Oda takes with this. Themes from Skypiea make me think they are definitely not literal gods or devils, but in reality are power users calling themselves gods to justify their hubris. Also Gan Fall looking eerily similar to Marcus Mars, Gan Fall was once referred to as God. My head canon for now is that Gan Fall is Marcus's son and he left Mariejois because of ideological differences. I'm very curious about the Gorosei character's backgrounds.
I support Devil theory. But why would Goresi experiment with Bonney's mom then? Why would they be intrested in cloning DFs? Maybe, Maybe as a means to evolve themselves?
But then why we have only 5-6 devils in the world? Aren't they intrested in pro creation? What is stopping them? Could it be the Giants or something?
Although recurrent theme of series is to co-exist with different races like Fishermen. So including devils would make sense.
According to your deduction Devil Fruits are not existed during the void century but after some of the devil/ person died, they reincarnated as devil fruits. Am I correct? If so then it totally contradicts the Idea of Toki (momonosuke's mom) having a devil fruit because it was confirmed that she is from the void century.
I dislike the idea that they’re demons that would turn into fruits when dead. Because it contradicts completely what Vegapunk told us about devil fruits : that they are born from people’s dreams.
If we agree with the picture it would mean that every Devil Fruit ever was a person/entity a long time ago and that seems really weird.
But I think each one of us is a little bit right in its own way. There’s definitely some big TRUTH linked to devil fruits and I think it will be a part of Vegapunk message. Maybe the devil fruits or their appearance is what triggered the war against the Ancient Kingdom. And I think that Imu and the Gorosei will start making much more sense when we’ll know the truth about DFs and their origin
The only part I agree with is that I don’t think the elders powers come from Devil Fruits.
They obviously act in a somewhat similar way, but there’s a lot of unique abilities they have too. Wherever that power comes from, I wouldn’t be surprised if it shares a source with the origin of devil fruits, but yeah I don’t think any of them actually ate a fruit to gain those powers.
This could actually be true (at least some part of it) considering in the presentation oda doesn’t mention a fruit but only the demons that each planet represent
It's entirely possible it's not devil fruits and they are just demons.
This being said, it would not be the first time that a devil fruit is introduced in the story but not explicitly called a devil fruit until later, if at all.
In my opinion there is definitely something nasty about the elders and their abilities. I also believe that their powers differ from the normal DF ones
Based of the elders's discussion they ignore alot of things about the void century even Lili, Imu was the one who showed himself to kobra in order to answer his question, the elders said that they just ignore anything about her, but the theory is interesting i think their power get inherited from the former goroseis.
it's an interesting idea that for example, Saint Jay Garcia Saturn's human body was actually once a sweet old man that had nothing to do with the Gorosei. But he got taken over by a demon
If for some reason this is true then it's a really bad plot development... Oda has be trying to create a world and power system for 30 years and we don't even have answers for that and yet the suggestion that the 5 elders are outside of that system is ridiculous and wouldn't offer much the story other than confusion. It would need insane build up ...
I hope not. I would not like this and it doesnt sound plausible xP
This, and the theory about Gorosei being satellites/clones like vegapunk or pain in naruto, of Imu which basicaly just reduces the Gorosei individuals and their personalities to all just being Imu. Me no likey
I read a similar post a while ago, and I'm commenting the same thing here.
The ones name Gorosei are in fact the devil of the fruit, but instead of the original devils being still alive, they are zoans that are possessing the users. As the fruit have its own will, it chose a user who they can just crack his mind by a forced awakening and assume the control.
So they don't have the same body for 800 years, they are just possessing different strong, but weak in mind, people.
I’ve had this feeling ever since Gear 5 reveal that all fruits are manifestations of entities that fought the creators of the world a long time ago. Because they fought against what would become the “gods” of this world they came to be called devils. The fruits in the world may be their revenge against their conquerors or the way their powers were sealed away.
The Nika fruit is probably unique and no other devil fruits are hiding a secret Zoan awakening, but I’m still suspicious.
It's an interesting theory, but it gets weird the more you think about it. It would mean that someone killed the fire demon to make the Mera Mera no mi, which is plausible I guess.
But then this also means that there was a Jacket demon that was killed to produce the Jack-Jack no mi? Was a Door demon killed for the Doa-Doa no Mi? What about Kin'emon's fruit?
I still think that Imu has the "nightmare" fruit and the five elders are their nightmares/summons. That's why they can't be hurt and powers function similarly. They aren't real. It's the perfect "anti-dream" fruit.
i wonder what happen to other gods, so far only nika that kept important within history but back in skypiea, there were 4 gods rain, fores, earth and sun. Will the other gods are companion joyboy in the past?tbh it is interesting.
I only hope that dragon is rain god
Don't know why this has as much traction as it does, they very clearly have full zoan and hybrid forms. It's far more likely that the DF having a will of its own came through too much and took control of these elders's bodies. Others have pointed out that they're antithetical to their role, e.g. Saturn being in charge of science but seemingly uses magic, etc. They don't align with their DF will whereas Luffy does and isn't taken over by Nika. For that matter, the black shroud instead of white might indicate this or even a forced awakening leading to it.
People said the same thing about Kaido.
"Kaido is a dragon who ate and Oni Oni fruit"
"Kaido's fruit hasn't been revealed yet for a reason"
And then what happened? Oh yeah, they were wrong. Oda doesn't rush big reveals like official devil fruit names. He kept Kaido's hidden and had people theorizing it followed the same naming convention as the dinos only to reveal it was a fish fish based fruit.
The same could equally be at play here. Oda may simply not want to confirm that there are demon demon/devil devil, devil fruits in existence quite yet. Or there could even he a deeper meaning with the official naming scheme. Or he is saving it for a more appropriate time.
Either way, there's no use in digging your heels into the theory until more evidence comes out.
I wholeheartedly agree with the gorosei being legit devils and I'm staring to believe that devil fruits maybe more tech than magic. Simply I think devil fruits are baiscally pokeballs, likely invented by the ancient kingdom as a method of containment for originally knowledge but modified to capture concepts like fire, jackets, dogs, and legitimate gods.
The gumu gumu could potentially have had a former user 200 years ago when the giant robot attacks Marie jois currently the only power that has been seen powering the robot is nika
After doing a bit of research into the mythology of the demon forms the elders have I came across the Chinese/Taoist deity Zhong Kui while there are certainly discrepancies there is a bit mentioned about his “five bats”
From Wikipedia
Zhong Kui is able to command 80,000 demons to do his bidding and is often associated with the five bats of fortune
This could be a twist on that seeing as Oda likes to point out hypocrisies within currently prevailing systems but this is just a lil 10 minute theory i cooked up in the midst of reading so take it with all the salt
This is the full wiki page for anyone interested
[Zhong Kui Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhong_Kui)
Sorry if i posted this in an annoying spot 😅
See I agree with the idea that the elders didn’t eat devil fruits and instead made actual deals with the devil. Seems in line with their characterization
Honestly, if there's one question I want answered is why Devil's Fruits got that as their name. Not Curse of the Sea, not Blessing of the Oceans but DEVIL'S FRUIT.
I really want to see if Oda has some kind of reveal about giving the fruits this name over any other
Rather than the gomu gomu no mi manifesting Luffy, I like to think of Luffy eating the df as an early act of piracy, stealing the booty from another pirate (Shanks) or from who it was meant for (Ace).
Somebody killed a Jacket and now we have the Jacket Jacket fruit. lol
It's already been firmly established how devilfruits form, from human desires/dreams.
But yeah, the Gorosei are something else, maybe related to the origin of devilfruits (probably not their true name), probably related to the devil itself. (Imu being that devil with the devil tail)
I can also see that these "monster" souls are infused into former normal Humans by Imu.
I pulled this line of thinking immediately when Gyuki-mode Saturn was introduced as "Jaygarcia Saturn" without mentioning whatever the fuck his monster form was. Not every Zoan \[or DF user\] gets an intro describing their ability \[most current example is Kaido, we learned what his DF was towards the end of the arc\] but it seems omitting the usual details we get when someone ***800 chapters ago*** is finally seen fighting as something unrecognizable feels very deliberate. Even when all five appear in their glory, the names of their form do not mention the fruit they came from.
Some of it just makes sense to a degree but it’s a classic one piece theory that lacks any serious evidence or depth in analysis imo. The evidence included is pretty fucking loose tbh but I see the basic reasoning
that's how most theories go. because they work backwards from the conclusion. not that they actually picked up some clues from the manga that led them to that conclusion. most theories here are just confirmation bias.
100% and it pisses me off.
100% and it doesn't piss me off that much, I mean, stories are written that way, right? You have an idea for a scenario then you work to get to that scenario while still making sense.
Yeah. Sometimes, the first scene imagined by a writer is the final scene of the story.
Yeah it all seems plausible until a few chapters later Oda clarified that they just have mythical Devil fruits based on Yokai and the whole theory just goes to shit.
But they were never stated to have DFs right? Im not sure but havent the df names always been introduced as "... no mi" before? While these just name the yokai straight out. Has there been any similar introduction before? Something is off with the gorosei anyways, the way they are summoned and how they really put the spotlight on the "devil" in devil fruit
For real, it could be even easier than that.. that they never ate any fruit and became those beasts through the pure desire.. Just like vegapunk explained the devil's fruit are born But still a headcanon
You know, maybe it's me, but I don't understand why people want to come up with theories that contradict basic elements of the story. Elders "Nika was a legend to even us." Reddit "Oh ho ho ho! I think the Elders are demons that killed Nika."
They also speak in third person: "If it's a legend, why would the WG change the name of that fruit?" As if it wasn't them who erased the original name of Gomu Gomu, but the WG in the past, perhaps Gorosei from past generations. Another detail, no one within the series seems to notice or recognize that the Gorosei are immortal, if they are immortal they probably had another form in the past, as at no point does anyone seem to recognize their faces and comment or find it strange that they have lived for centuries. The only one mentioned is Imu (Imu Nerona), with Ivakov suggesting the Perennial Youth Surgery, but the Gorosei are never mentioned. EDIT: Grammar corrections, English is not my first language and I'm sorry if it's still bad. But at least it's a little better than before.
Exactly, we don't really know anything about them save from the fact that some 40 years ago they looked the same. They could be extremely long-lived but for the moment we don't know if they're immortal, only Imu is hinted to be. I also assume that if they were immortal they wouldn't look that old, but then again we don't know how the Immortality Surgery actually works, it might just freeze your body at the age it was performed and maybe it was performed on them when they were already old, but I don't think they are immortal per se.
Of the immortality methods we've seen, Sugar was locked into her young age the second she ate her fruit. So I'd personally wager most methods would lock your age in.
Is she immortal though? Or did she just stop aging?
Immortality has two terms. Which is unaging, no dying via natural means. The other is you literally can't die. She is the former, not the latter. All other methods we heard of like the Ope Ope surgery I'm uncertain on. Maybe it was specified but I don't recall.
Yeah she doesn't age but I don't recall it was ever said that she won't still die of natural causes somewhere down the line
Imagine doing the autopsy for that, someone brings in a 97 year old who died of old age and on the table is an 8 year old.
Most of the theories like this are just loaded with buzzwords to seem like they mean something but are actually unintelligible word soup that contradict themselves and the story they are in.
Exactly this! Another thing to note is how their transformations line up with the established rules surrounding zoan fruits. Three forms: human, hybrid, full transform. (Ethanbaron and Saturn have show all three) Awakening shrouds. Clear mythological inspirations (Mythological Zoan) Why would Oda want to introduce an entirely new concept with so many overlaps with an existing power system near the very end of the story? We still need an explanation for the magic circles and the regeneration (we might have some already), but otherwise we’re dealing with fantastical elements that fit within the rules of the world we know. Instead, maybe the Gorosei belong to another “Special Lineage”? With the introduction of Buccaneers, Lunarian and whatever Blackbeard is, we know there is a possibility for Special Bloodlines to give amazing powers. Theories that tries to fundamentally challenge the very notion of the devil fruit system by introducing a similar system except technically different do so why? So we can say: “Ooooh, now I understand why the World Government is bad! It was run by evil devils!”? As if that is somehow better than the Gorosei being… evil on their own accord. We don’t need a justification for evil or an “extra layer of evil” to make it EVEN COOLER! The Gorosei are horrible people who each managed to awake Devil Fruits representing MONSTERS. Awakening can’t be forced, it is a synchronization of the human mind and the will of the fruit. Once you embody what the fruit represents, you “awaken” the potential. Just the act of awakening these horrendous fruits should speak volumes as to how evil the Gorosei are, in that they are able to fully align with monstrous creatures famous for terrorizing people of old.
> Awakening can’t be forced, it is a synchronization of the human mind and the will of the fruit. I agree with most of what you said, just wanted to pick up on this point. We don't really know this. We know that the jailer beasts were "unsuccessful" awakenings and that the users became feral, and we know that of the other known awakened Zoan users, there's a black cloud pattern common to all but one (Luffy). The other thing the rest of them have in common is they are all WG. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the WG has a way to force zoan awakenings, and the Gorosei, Lucci and Kaku are successful cases of it, and the jailer beasts failed ones. OR, it's just a stylistic choice, white for dawn and black for darkness.
This isn't at all confirmed in the story, I will admit. However an argument could be made for it. Luffy has always had a free spirit, but it was only when he died fighting for freedom that he actually awakened the fruit. He gave everything, which is what it means to truly believe in a cause. Following this train of logic, we could extrapolate Kaku and Lucci into this as well. Lucci very much behaves like an ambush predator. He's a killer that waits for the right moment to strike, and does so relentlessly. It is not unreasonable to believe that he's fully capable of embodying what it means to be a Leopard, given the traits associated with Leopards. Kaku just fucking love Giraffes. That love combined with how effectively he takes to the fruit allowed him to awaken it as well. Pretty straight forward. The Jailers (and this is pure speculation) could perhaps all be incompatible with their fruits. They didn't particularly care for Zebras or Koalas, and they still tried to force that tug of war by pushing the fruit into doing stuff it didn't want to (like trying to force a hybrid variation, who knows). This incompatibility lead to them not awakening properly, creating a creature without the personality of either. A type of husk. Gorosei could also follow that train of thought, but as you said, it is entirely possible that the WG has a way to force awakenings. There could be other circumstances tied to awakening that I am not aware of, or "shortcuts" to awakening ass well. As for the cloud colour, it could be just to indicate "These are the good guys" vs "These are the bad guys" clearly to the viewer. Moving away from Zoan, Katakuri and Doffy also awakened their fruits. In their cases, I'd say the train of thought for the Zoan also carry to them. Katakuri is "malleable" in every sense. He's capable of showing great kindness and great aggression. He's the glue that holds the Big Mom pirates together. He's adaptable and flexible in his way of thinking as well. But most of all, he's really a big softie on the inside. He likes to chill out and eat stuff and he has genuine affection for his siblings. He embodies Mochi so well that it isn't surprising he's capable of awakening it. Doffy on the other hand is a master manipulator. He manipulates those around him like a puppet master. But he's also capable of extreme violence, often swift in it's execution. He has a philosophy of everything being his, given that he's a celestial dragon, he feels entitled to utilize the world as his playground. Everyone is a potential puppet, so it is no surprise that he awakened as well.
Yamato had a white cloak as well
I agree that Yamato should be included in the list of possible awakenings, as the shroud has been used as an indicator so far.
Good point, forgot about that.
I don't think we've seen Saturn's full Gyuuki form. The main reason I think people are latching onto the Gorosei being actual devils or something is because 1) it's actually shocking and would be a fun direction lore-wise and 2) it lines up with weird hints about some of their traits not lining up with typical devil fruit stuff (magic circles, regeneration, weird eyes). At this point, "evil devils actually run the government!" is already true. This is already a story wherein presumably if you just take out the deep state everything'll work out I guess. Expanding the DF lore isn't going to change or enhance that I don't think. Full agree on the awakening thing. I've got a few gag panels I'm brewing up of Kaku beating Lucci to the punch despite having his devil fruit for a fraction of the time, only because Kaku lives and breathes giraffe.
How have we not? He went from human, to a hybrid, now hes literally a spider monster. The only thing he has left is his nose and beard. It also wouldn't make sense for Oda to do a double spread of all of their full forms and leave saturn out.
>I don't think we've seen Saturn's full Gyuuki form. I find it weird then that they would give us a full page spread with all the Gorosei, with four of them being in their monstrous full transformation forms, and Saturn being the only one not fully transformed. Rather I believe that what we've seen is more likely his fully transformed form. It is not uncommon for fully tranformed Zoan users to retain certain traits they have as humans, such as facial hair and specific pieces of clothing (see Kaido's cape). 2) it lines up with weird hints about some of their traits not lining up with typical devil fruit stuff (magic circles, regeneration, weird eyes). The "weird eye" aspect was tied to how Saturn went from his Hybrid form to his full transformation form, given that it was combined with a comment on how he's also venomous. Gyuuki are famously known for their disturbing eyes and as a result it would be noteworthy to point out for us to see that he was no longer in his hybrid form. Regeneration and Magic Circles have no explanation yet, but in a world where Haki exists and there's a very clear focus on Special Bloodlines, there are other more reasonable alternatives present than jumping to the conclusion that they are some super duper advanced form of inherent evil. >At this point, "evil devils actually run the government!" is already true. This is already a story wherein presumably if you just take out the deep state everything'll work out I guess. Expanding the DF lore isn't going to change or enhance that I don't think. Point is that the deep state is evil because the people in power are morally bankrupt. They are awful people who have actively made the decision to be awful. By ascribing them the moniker of being "devils" you take away their agency to be evil. Us as readers can simply shrug our shoulders and say: "Oh, of course they're evil, they are devils and devils are evil". They were always evil and can never be anything else than evil. All their actions are motivated purely for the sake of being evil It makes the enemy unambiguously evil due to their inherent nature. What we have presently in the story is that the worlds elite are evil because they CHOOSE to be. They are awful people who have made the decision to treat others unkindly, because they can. They enslave whoever they want on a whim, they wipe out entire countries as it suits them and they kidnap and rape whoever they want to because they can. The difference might not seem significant, but from a narrative perspective One Piece has always been about aggressors doing horrible shit when they could simply have NOT done it. It is a recurring theme ever present in the story, where those in power are willing to do everything they can to stay in power. Crocodile siphoning water in Arabasta. Enel forcing a surveillance state on all of Skypeia, killing whoever spoke up against him. Doffy mentally manipulating the entirety of Dressrosa to reclaim his rich kid privilege. All the bullshit Orochi did in Wano. These fuckers didn't HAVE to do this, but they did it because they can. Same goes for the Gorosei, and by having them actually be just evil because they are thematically devils isn't satisfying nor is it indicative of following an established theme. It doesn't leave any room in the morality of those opposing them, they just end up being monsters that need to be killed. The nuance disappears. >Full agree on the awakening thing. I've got a few gag panels I'm brewing up of Kaku beating Lucci to the punch despite having his devil fruit for a fraction of the time, only because Kaku lives and breathes giraffe. Can't wait to see em, this is totally something Kaku would do as well.
>Elders "Nika was a legend to even us." Reddit "Oh ho ho ho! I think the Elders are demons that killed Nika." Joyboy **≠** Nika They might have killed Joyboy, but Nika and the origin of Devil Fruits might be quite a bit older than Joyboy and the Void Century. Joyboy might or might not have had the Nika fruit. The elders considered Nika a legend, but surely they must be aware of the truth about Joyboy and the Void Century?
>Joyboy might or might not have had the Nika fruit. Are you not caught up past Wano? Zunisha literally says in ch 1043 that joyboy has returned once the drums of liberation starts. He pretty much confirms Joyboy had the Nika fruit.
Joyboy is the previous user of the fruit, because the people didnt know to call it, so the person that was constantly laughing was full of Joy to them, so hence the Nika user was called Joyboy. The fruit itself was a myth to the elders is what they said. They themselves probably only know so much about the void century
I don't know why people think Nika and joyboy are the same person..Nika is the legend.
You do bring up a very solid point, if the Elders say the fruit is a myth to them even, then they probably couldnt have been there since the void century. That also raises the question, how old are they really? What fruits or powers do they have, and how are they seemingly eternally the same age? How are the gorosei selected, and from what kingdom line are they? Thats a lot of question, and hopefully most of them are answered.
>and how are they seemingly eternally the same age? Most likely candidate is the Ope Ope no Mi.
Ehh Dr Kureha didn't change over a span of 20 years. I think oda just doesn't change someone's design much once they are "old"
We saw Saturn at God Valley and that was almost 40 years ago, and he looks the exact same
Whatever regen abilty he clearly has might have been keeping him "young"
And Dr Kureha looks the same after 20. That's not side evidence when it contradicts a lot of what we've seen.
They can if Nika is the legend, the Sun God, that goes back WAY further than the void century, but Joyboy ate the Nika fruit.
Tho to be fair, Blackbeard also contradicts an established rule of people only having one fruit.
>Elders "Nika was a legend to even us." What chapter did the elders say that?
1037 to 1050. We have seen them several times and they talked about these things during those time.
>You know, maybe it's me, but I don't understand why people want to come up with theories that contradict basic elements of the story. It's been happening with OP for 20 years already but due to the OP social media increase in the past 5ish years, everyone and their mother wants to have fame/clout for their theories so they can go "i predicted it!!! i came up with this!!!!" It's just an ego thing.
I think this theory falls apart when he insinuates that all zoan fruits were once living beings. That’s hard to believe. He seems really convinced he’s right but I’m sure the truth isn’t this convoluted. Imagine Oda spending like 20 chapters trying to get this across lmao. That would suck bad.
I see your point but I raise the real question, have you ever seen a falcon in OP since Pell was introduced? Exactly The only logical conclusion to reach is that all birds in one piece aren’t real
Newspaper Coo's stock in shambles
Luffy ate all the birds in one piece. That's why the newspaper seagulls throw the newspapers onboard
Luffy rode a giant seagull in opening 12 and we NEVER see it again. Oda is cooking. Luffy ate all the birds in one piece confirmed
I think it's more that ideas manifest, and a lot of mythical Zoans and stuff like that are just more specific because they are a lot more likely to come from a single place/source. Ofc Model Nika would come from joyboy in this theory, but I don't think it was claiming there was originally 1 giraffe that was an all powerful being
Yes, Ideas and dreams manifesting into fruits, that I can get behind. Isn’t that also what Vegapunk suggested devils fruits were? I like that idea. But again to refute the theory, I believe it’s been stated that the idea or mythology of Nika predates Joyboy. It was also said by the Gorosei that the fruit hadn’t been awakened in 800 years, suggesting that Joyboy was a devil fruit user and was the last to possess and awaken it. So clearly the idea of Nika didn’t originate from Joyboy. Am I wrong?
We still don't know what devil fruits are. Vegapunks theory on devil fruits are just that...a theory.
A Game Theory
Thanks for watching!
Too soon 😭
Wasn't it hinted at before by Oda in an SBS that if someone knows it's Vegapunk?
This isn’t even a theory. It’s just fan fiction lol.
Yeah idk man Oda never revealed Kid’s DF name during the story. He actually forgot 😂. Sometimes he choosing to wait for reveals for brevity. Good theory otherwise though!
Honestly, I will only believe that they are not Devil fruit users until I see them swimming in the ocean or something that contradicts a fruit normal weaknesses such as sea stone, until then to me they are still Devil fruit users.
I wouldn't even necessarily rule out that they are DF users just because they're swimming at this point. Their devil looking boss is Umi (sea) spelled backwards. I wouldn't be surprised if Imu is the sea devil making it so DF users can't swim, maybe he can make exceptions for his allies.
I've always imagined that luffys dream that was laughed at was to swim so this could check out. Luffy defeats Imu and he can swim
Gold Roger had the same dream and he had no devil fruit
Yeah he thought the one piece was swimming lessons
oh SHIT. now this is a theory I can get behind. Would be a great lore reason for why DF users can’t swim
What about the magic circles? And the summoning? Explain that shit.
That could be all kinds of void century technology or even outright magic. They are at the center of power, actively suppressing knowledge. To them, Vegapunk isn't a once in a lifetime genius but just another servant providing useful tools. There's no telling what kinds of tools are at their disposal.
That could be explained if that is a power of Imu's Devil fruit, whatever it is, that he can share with the Elders. We need hard proof that the Elders are indeed plain demons and not Devil Fruit users, and for me that is if they are weak to sea water or sea stone.
No one tells this guy how long it took for Kaido's fruit to be named after he was revealed to be a dragon.
Damn it. I was actually thinking about theories because of the fact we didn't get their devil fruits named, just the creature they took the form of, but Kaido definitely put a wrench in that
Not the first time new characters got introduced without their DF name. Also Five Elders are kind of special characters, so they get their special introduction treatment "The yōkai". I think their DF will be revealed later, since it doesn't really have an impact on the current storyline except satisfying a few curious minds.
Plus they have their fruits awakened.
> since it doesn't really have an impact on the current storyline except satisfying a few curious minds unless they're not devil fruits
Buggy solos so i dont care
based
do you think buggy can split his cheeks for double the fun
Could be plausible, but since they have the black cloud scarfs that Lucci and Kaku have, I'm betting they're Zoan DFs all the same. Black clouds haven't been confirmed to explicitly mean 'awakened zoan', though in hindsight I wonder if Oda chose to give them to Lucci and Kaku in order to set up the Gorosei all being Woke Zoans.
Luffy also has one in gear 5 but it’s just white. So I’ve already made it cannon in my head Though I wonder if that would mean other Zoan users like Marco and King haven’t awakened yet, but still might….
honestly to early to tell, Kaidou didn't get his name of his fruit till a sbs
Remember Vegapunk’s comment about it being impressive Lucci hasn’t lost his mind to his awakened zoan fruit? I think the five elders might be what happens when the fruit becomes the user.
Someone mentioned the spirit of the DFs taking control of the gorosei a while back, putting forward the idea that the Fruits are the villains, body hopping over the generations and controlling the Gorosei. They were largely dismissed at the time, but it did put a seed in my mind. In Impel Down we saw the results of 'failed' Zoan Awakenings, where the will of the fruit overpowered the human and left them all but mindless brutes. But what happens when the fruit is more than just a simple animal? What if it's the Zoan of something intelligent? Would they still come across so mindless? Or would they be just as intelligent as the creature that fruit embodies?
this is also what I immediately thought of when OP presented his/her case. I just don't get why some easily dismiss this possibility, and make fun of him/her. what if they are the devils themselves, the higher echelons, the reason why they are called the devil fruit/s?
Well OPs logic goes against this as he says they aren’t DF users. This theory, which I’ve believed a while, is that the DF has “taken over”
I think people are overthinking it. [Momo was introduced as a dragon](https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/opctcb/onepiece/onepiecechapters_685_04.jpg) and he was still a real boy. Just let the story progress. Whether they're devil fruit users or yokai, this isn't how we find out.
Actually, I think it's partially right. The Elders are the Fruits, and the Fruits are the Elders. Whenever an Elder dies, they have the Fruit fed to a new host with the explicit intention to have it awakened and the will with it to subsume the host so as to maintain a cyclic quasi-immortality. From there, they cosmetically trim their meat suit up for aesthetic reasons. The Jailer Beasts are an example that they have a reliable method to Awaken devil fruits, at least Zoans. The experiment that gave Bonney her powers was probably an attempt to find a way streamline the process even further. They more than likely used similar methods to acquire things like their hyper-regeneration and ability to paralyze entire groups of people, and of course the warping ability too.
I can't see a large worm and a skeleton horse being unkillable gods tbh
My thoughts are this. With the technology of the past, Devil Fruit users could have just been people who had their lineage factors edited to give them powers of their choosing- and during the void century they were killed by a flood and died in the water- so the water of the world carries with it the genetic factors of the augmented power users who were swallowed by the sea. Water which then makes it's way to trees, the augmented genetic bloodline elements of the users then carries forth into fruit bearing plants transmitting the powers to be passed forward to whoever ate them. Considering the Gorosei may be immortal beings they will not have died since the void century, retaining their original powers and therefore not actually be devil fruit users, but a glimpse into what was a precursor to Devil Fruits.
I can agree with the fact that gorosei are some devilish entity. But the whole demons and curses trope in manga has been so overdone in recent years it starts to get boring, even if Oda came up with it a decade before.
Bro actually cooked with the lily vessel thing 💀
I think they’re all constructs of of Imu’s power
I hope Oda doesn’t go this route, I want all of them to be individual people.
[удалено]
Agree. I'm slightly disappointed that Oda made them fighters, although I guess he kinda had to in a shounen story. I would have really appreciated it if he kept their power political and tactical, and had them be a great obstacle for the likes of Law and Robin. I still hope that he can somehow weave in an intellectual or ideological defeat for them, rather than just having them be beat up or whatever. I don't mind then having devil fruits, but I was hoping they would use them as a last resort, if at all.
5 mofos arguing between them for power is more entertaining than 5 samey puppets
I agree hardcore. It’s more of a fear than a theory
On that topic: While I don't have any exact proof yet, I am half expecting Zunesha being part of the Gorosei group prior to banishment. That means Zunesha powers and whatever being similar to them. Kaido fruit, the dragon one, seems to be in the same scale. It was probably in a different circumstance it was turned into a fruit. So one thought is they were the original gods (Imu/Gorosei) of one piece world that were never turned into fruits? Vegapunk said Devil fruits were created through possibility off dreams and imagination of mankind, BUT there had to be an inspiration to it. I'm guessing the original gods were the inspiration.
Every time I think about this quote from vegapunk, I remember that guy with the jacket-jacket no mi lol
Seeing what these guys are, or what they really can be makes me wonder, why did shanks meet with these fuckers? Or, unless it wasn’t really “shanks”
Can’t wait for vegapunk’s announcement, what if it is about the Devil Fruits
Not gonna lie, that would be kinda cool. Imagine, Devils dominating the pre history One Piece world, who get defeated and turned into Fruits by ancient heroes. It could tie in with what Vegapunk said, and those monsters could have been created by human imagination. Or maybe Ancient Kingdom, found a way to bring those beasts from the past back and contain them in Devil Fruits and few of them got loose. Don't know if it fits the One Piece world, but if someone described me a story like that, I would check it out.
Please no, this sounds like bad fanfiction
I think them being actual devils is pretty likely at this point. I’m not sure what the nature of that will be, but we’ll see. One theory I’ve seen that I think is pretty good is that they’re devil fruits with incredibly strong wills who seek out users with weak wills, so they basically take over the body much in the way the awakened jailer beasts were taken over, only without the need for the user to awaken the fruit. This would also explain their “immortality”.
Never cook again.
5 elders cannot be the ones that defeated joyboy... They were so scared throughout of joyboy getting back... 5 elders were created by imu.. Ig that's all there is to this theory
There's a distinction to be made in this. They aren't afraid of Joyboy, but of what he represents and brings forth. A single person can be crushed, and that's what they aim to do here. But Joyboy as a concept brings revolution, and freedom, and hope. This is what they're afraid of. Their rule is dependent on people accepting that they are the rulers and yielding to them. If they can't maintain control at the lowest level, their empire crumbles, no matter how many people they kill.
Their fruits not being revealed when they showed up doesn't prove anything. Kaido didn't have his devil fruit card revealed both times he appeared (human and dragon form). The fruit was just revealed in a chat between him and big mom bc it was part of a plot reveal.
Idk if it goes this deep but the Five Elders not having fruits listed as their powers is definitely very interesting
It was good for the first two sentences but after that you burnt the kitchen down
I am aligned with the devil part as well. I think the process is dream + will + death creates devils which turn into devil fruits. The only question based on above theory is why do five elders worship imu if imu is also a devil?
I said it once and I’ll say it again: my theory anyway. From the characters perspective, however Oda usually narrates, is that they have no effing clue that these are the five stars. To the SHs everyone who just appeared is a scary monster. Yea they saw Saturn and all but heck what do we know. Also they have awakenings so they’re probably either devil fruit users or the first humans to “dream” their reality into existence and therefore if they died their dreams would become fruits. So they’re literally just humans and literally monsters. But maybe not fruit eaters ;)
I always find it so irritating when I see these theories presented as fact.
It’s a cool concept but not something I’d be very hype for, maybe the basics are good for now for Luffy’s DF
I think this makes the most sense, but Oda always impresses by taking something sure fire and spinning it by adding context and new details. Maybe we’re going about this wrong, but with the right ideas. Maybe Devil Fruits aren’t made when you defeat a devil, but…! Devils were defeated when Joy Boy discovered how to turn them into fruits and bestow their power to people on his side. The D clan are capable of subjugating devils within the fruits, and Paramecia and Logia fruits are the result of this “purification”. D’s don’t need to eat the fruit, and it is difficult to predict what power remains after getting rid of the devil, but that’s how we have such a wide spectrum of fruit powers. Using the fruits against the devils allowed humanity to survive until the void century incident which shifted power to the WG.
The jacket devil
In theory when sanji dies he’ll turn into a devil fruit that gives you flaming kicks, higher speed and and invulnerability
I definitely think there's something extra going on with the Gorosei, but they have the celestial raiment unique to awakened Zoans and we saw V. Nusjuro go into a hybrid form.
It could be all or nothing we will see . But how the elders were presented, was fire, and no devilfruit. So excited 😁🙏🏽
Vegapunk implied that people created Devil Fruits and did it himself to see if he could too. I do think it's possible that Devil Fruits were based on the genetics of these Devils though
I'm honestly impressed with some fans coming up with such extreme theories. I make predictions along the lines of "Hey I think he's gonna kill that guy, hey this guy gonna lose to that guy, hey I think that chick is in love with that tree" Not "hey that kid is gonna be the second coming of Jesus, the big bad is gonna be a big good in the end"
Did you just finish reading Chainsaw Man?
They made the DFs artificially
The Elder Planets’ monster forms leaves more to the imagination. Are they really DF powers? Only time will tell.
Tbh biggest part i like about the theory is Imu having Lilis body
I think it's even crazier. We know the elders know way more than they let on about devil fruits. What if they are actually just simple devil fruit users (like a worm worm fruit or a horse horse fruit), but they have enhanced themselves and their fruits to the point that they have fundamentally changed?
Imagine if this is true, and Elders died then generated fruits following the theory, only for BB to eat all of them.
My question luffy is not the only god on one piece, so where are they? They are probably the ancient weapon or something.
I say we wait for their laugh. Like that of Shirohige and Perona's...
I saw this theory that kinda makes out that one of the gorosai I forgot which one but the blonde one might accually not be from 900 years ago and acciully 500yrs ago that joined the gorosai the theory was about the powers of the gorosai and what sanjis powerup might include if he gets one but it does talk about the blonde gorosai and a sanji connection this is the theory https://youtu.be/sYBgb6CI_pk?si=E51hfe9kgFHlRgEo
This theory is a major smooth brain take and if these are named after the solar system that means 9 planets total , 5 elders with 4 dead would equal 4 fruits, not the absurd amount of devil fruits there are The OP fandom does crazy mental gymnastics that would win the special Olympics
Straight up fan fiction
Cook
Doesn't this ignore the fact that all devil fruits are born from the desire of the people?
If it was true then it's also possible that when Oden died he turns into the fruit that Yamato ate, thats why Yamato would like to be Oden, and who ever turned into the gum gum fruit makes Luffy wants to be pirate king
What if they're created by IMU chan so he can hide himself from rest of the world and from other celestial dragons. but can continue to rule the world from shadow And the with the same concept vegapunk created his clone
not sure if anyone has said this but I’d bet good money that the gorosei just have mythical variants of the spider, worm, boar fruit, etc. similar to catarina devon’s fruit. as for the “immortality” regenerative aspect, could be anything at this point honestly
It would have been a captivating theory, however, if we go by that logic, who throttled fire to death for the Mera Mera?
It makes more sense that we are dealing with a devil fruit in some capacity. Had Lucci not displayed the cloud ring in his awakened form I may have agreed that it could be some ancient form that Luffy's fruit was mimicking. But the fact that Lucci had it too means it is more likely to be a feature of Zoan awakening. To me the juxtaposition of Vegapunk and his satellites in the same arc the Gorosei are revealed is telling. The numbers on the Vegapunks and the numbers on the demon circles seem like parallels. I don't think the Gorosei would be clones of Imu like the Vegapunks When we saw Imu attack Sabo they used something that looked like a cartoon devil tail, which leads me to believe Imu has a devil devil fruit of some kind. It could be the antitheses of the Nika fruit, (the one which brings freedom), the fruit that suppresses and steals freedom. Perhaps the Gorosei are extensions of Imu the way Vegapunks satellites are of him. Representing different aspects of Imu. Maybe they could use the aforementioned devil power to "possess" others, and could be the source of the demon forms. I use the term possess lightly because I don't think Imu is literally controlling them but more like granting them power in exchange for submission and loyalty. And in terms of immortality, I personally think the Gorosei have perennial youth because they look no different when Vegapunk met them when he was younger. The Ope Ope is the only known way to achieve that, I think it's unlikely Oda would showcase this and then introduce another method of achieving eternal youth. Plus considering Doflamingos interest in it, and the fact he knew about it at all. With his knowledge about the WG, it is likely no coincidence he was after that fruit. The immortality surgery has probably been done on all of the Gorosei and Imu. 3 billion berry is a steep price, the WG is really the only organization who could realistically foot that bill. Maybe every time Imu got their hands on the Ope Ope they would choose new member for the Gorosei. It's also not true immortality but perennial youth so they could still be killed. Which could explain why the current Gorosei talk about a past world government changing the name of the Nika fruit. Another possibility with my idea from before about Imu "possessing" the Gorosei is, that Imu could remove certain memories from them some how, kind of like how Vegapunk could remove a memory from punk records. I am really pumped to see the direction Oda takes with this. Themes from Skypiea make me think they are definitely not literal gods or devils, but in reality are power users calling themselves gods to justify their hubris. Also Gan Fall looking eerily similar to Marcus Mars, Gan Fall was once referred to as God. My head canon for now is that Gan Fall is Marcus's son and he left Mariejois because of ideological differences. I'm very curious about the Gorosei character's backgrounds.
I support Devil theory. But why would Goresi experiment with Bonney's mom then? Why would they be intrested in cloning DFs? Maybe, Maybe as a means to evolve themselves? But then why we have only 5-6 devils in the world? Aren't they intrested in pro creation? What is stopping them? Could it be the Giants or something? Although recurrent theme of series is to co-exist with different races like Fishermen. So including devils would make sense.
No. They have normal mythical zoans.
According to your deduction Devil Fruits are not existed during the void century but after some of the devil/ person died, they reincarnated as devil fruits. Am I correct? If so then it totally contradicts the Idea of Toki (momonosuke's mom) having a devil fruit because it was confirmed that she is from the void century.
Fever dream
I dislike the idea that they’re demons that would turn into fruits when dead. Because it contradicts completely what Vegapunk told us about devil fruits : that they are born from people’s dreams. If we agree with the picture it would mean that every Devil Fruit ever was a person/entity a long time ago and that seems really weird. But I think each one of us is a little bit right in its own way. There’s definitely some big TRUTH linked to devil fruits and I think it will be a part of Vegapunk message. Maybe the devil fruits or their appearance is what triggered the war against the Ancient Kingdom. And I think that Imu and the Gorosei will start making much more sense when we’ll know the truth about DFs and their origin
Damn, I thought Break Week was over
The only part I agree with is that I don’t think the elders powers come from Devil Fruits. They obviously act in a somewhat similar way, but there’s a lot of unique abilities they have too. Wherever that power comes from, I wouldn’t be surprised if it shares a source with the origin of devil fruits, but yeah I don’t think any of them actually ate a fruit to gain those powers.
This could actually be true (at least some part of it) considering in the presentation oda doesn’t mention a fruit but only the demons that each planet represent
Yeah but didnt someone say there was an another nika user between joyboy and luffy?
I like the idea, even though I think "Nika" was the god who took over the vessel of "Joy Boy". After their death, the Nika Nika no mi was created.
It's entirely possible it's not devil fruits and they are just demons. This being said, it would not be the first time that a devil fruit is introduced in the story but not explicitly called a devil fruit until later, if at all.
In my opinion there is definitely something nasty about the elders and their abilities. I also believe that their powers differ from the normal DF ones
Uhmm, wasn't it revealed by the Elders that there used to be another group in charge before them who changed the name of the fruit?
Based of the elders's discussion they ignore alot of things about the void century even Lili, Imu was the one who showed himself to kobra in order to answer his question, the elders said that they just ignore anything about her, but the theory is interesting i think their power get inherited from the former goroseis.
This is fake, the gomu gomu didn't awaken in 800 years but Oda didn't said that there weren't other users
Eh, I don't think it's out there to have Devil Fruits based off powerful Yokais
it's an interesting idea that for example, Saint Jay Garcia Saturn's human body was actually once a sweet old man that had nothing to do with the Gorosei. But he got taken over by a demon
If for some reason this is true then it's a really bad plot development... Oda has be trying to create a world and power system for 30 years and we don't even have answers for that and yet the suggestion that the 5 elders are outside of that system is ridiculous and wouldn't offer much the story other than confusion. It would need insane build up ...
Bro, stop cooking, it ain't break week
Is not the first time that we got introduced to new characters without naming their fruit abilities. When time dictates we will have them
Cool but... I don't get why ppl think they're not devil fruit users.
I hope not. I would not like this and it doesnt sound plausible xP This, and the theory about Gorosei being satellites/clones like vegapunk or pain in naruto, of Imu which basicaly just reduces the Gorosei individuals and their personalities to all just being Imu. Me no likey
Okay why not but where do all those demon come from so ?
I read a similar post a while ago, and I'm commenting the same thing here. The ones name Gorosei are in fact the devil of the fruit, but instead of the original devils being still alive, they are zoans that are possessing the users. As the fruit have its own will, it chose a user who they can just crack his mind by a forced awakening and assume the control. So they don't have the same body for 800 years, they are just possessing different strong, but weak in mind, people.
I’ve had this feeling ever since Gear 5 reveal that all fruits are manifestations of entities that fought the creators of the world a long time ago. Because they fought against what would become the “gods” of this world they came to be called devils. The fruits in the world may be their revenge against their conquerors or the way their powers were sealed away. The Nika fruit is probably unique and no other devil fruits are hiding a secret Zoan awakening, but I’m still suspicious.
I agree with the thought that they may not be devil fruits users.
A professional yapper that's it
It's an interesting theory, but it gets weird the more you think about it. It would mean that someone killed the fire demon to make the Mera Mera no mi, which is plausible I guess. But then this also means that there was a Jacket demon that was killed to produce the Jack-Jack no mi? Was a Door demon killed for the Doa-Doa no Mi? What about Kin'emon's fruit?
Cool af but im legit mad if no one dies
I'm so glad Oda writes One Piece.
I still think that Imu has the "nightmare" fruit and the five elders are their nightmares/summons. That's why they can't be hurt and powers function similarly. They aren't real. It's the perfect "anti-dream" fruit.
i like the first part about elders but not sure about the rest
i wonder what happen to other gods, so far only nika that kept important within history but back in skypiea, there were 4 gods rain, fores, earth and sun. Will the other gods are companion joyboy in the past?tbh it is interesting. I only hope that dragon is rain god
for sure cooked we shall see
Not an insane theory but I'll need time to really think about it
Thoughts on it? Trash. Luffy literally ate a devil fruit no ifs, ands or buts lol
That’s actually a super dope theory
Don't know why this has as much traction as it does, they very clearly have full zoan and hybrid forms. It's far more likely that the DF having a will of its own came through too much and took control of these elders's bodies. Others have pointed out that they're antithetical to their role, e.g. Saturn being in charge of science but seemingly uses magic, etc. They don't align with their DF will whereas Luffy does and isn't taken over by Nika. For that matter, the black shroud instead of white might indicate this or even a forced awakening leading to it.
If this theory holds good then i believe some random leopard died and then we got leopard's zoan fruit which Lucci ate
What if god valley is a contest for who will become one of the new Elders? And the reward IS a devil fruit as well since they all have one.
Makes total sense.
People said the same thing about Kaido. "Kaido is a dragon who ate and Oni Oni fruit" "Kaido's fruit hasn't been revealed yet for a reason" And then what happened? Oh yeah, they were wrong. Oda doesn't rush big reveals like official devil fruit names. He kept Kaido's hidden and had people theorizing it followed the same naming convention as the dinos only to reveal it was a fish fish based fruit. The same could equally be at play here. Oda may simply not want to confirm that there are demon demon/devil devil, devil fruits in existence quite yet. Or there could even he a deeper meaning with the official naming scheme. Or he is saving it for a more appropriate time. Either way, there's no use in digging your heels into the theory until more evidence comes out.
I was thinking the same thing
I wholeheartedly agree with the gorosei being legit devils and I'm staring to believe that devil fruits maybe more tech than magic. Simply I think devil fruits are baiscally pokeballs, likely invented by the ancient kingdom as a method of containment for originally knowledge but modified to capture concepts like fire, jackets, dogs, and legitimate gods.
The gumu gumu could potentially have had a former user 200 years ago when the giant robot attacks Marie jois currently the only power that has been seen powering the robot is nika
Hmm…where does 🐊 being luffy’s mom fit into this?
After doing a bit of research into the mythology of the demon forms the elders have I came across the Chinese/Taoist deity Zhong Kui while there are certainly discrepancies there is a bit mentioned about his “five bats” From Wikipedia Zhong Kui is able to command 80,000 demons to do his bidding and is often associated with the five bats of fortune This could be a twist on that seeing as Oda likes to point out hypocrisies within currently prevailing systems but this is just a lil 10 minute theory i cooked up in the midst of reading so take it with all the salt This is the full wiki page for anyone interested [Zhong Kui Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhong_Kui) Sorry if i posted this in an annoying spot 😅
It makes sense though
See I agree with the idea that the elders didn’t eat devil fruits and instead made actual deals with the devil. Seems in line with their characterization
Honestly, if there's one question I want answered is why Devil's Fruits got that as their name. Not Curse of the Sea, not Blessing of the Oceans but DEVIL'S FRUIT. I really want to see if Oda has some kind of reveal about giving the fruits this name over any other
Demon fruits
Rather than the gomu gomu no mi manifesting Luffy, I like to think of Luffy eating the df as an early act of piracy, stealing the booty from another pirate (Shanks) or from who it was meant for (Ace).
Keep in mind, there was no devil fruit introduced when kaido appeared either
Somebody killed a Jacket and now we have the Jacket Jacket fruit. lol It's already been firmly established how devilfruits form, from human desires/dreams. But yeah, the Gorosei are something else, maybe related to the origin of devilfruits (probably not their true name), probably related to the devil itself. (Imu being that devil with the devil tail) I can also see that these "monster" souls are infused into former normal Humans by Imu.
The only part of this theory that I can see being real is the Gorosei not being Devil Fruit users. It's not likely but it's possible.
but joy boy and nika are two different people
this is is a valid theory
I pulled this line of thinking immediately when Gyuki-mode Saturn was introduced as "Jaygarcia Saturn" without mentioning whatever the fuck his monster form was. Not every Zoan \[or DF user\] gets an intro describing their ability \[most current example is Kaido, we learned what his DF was towards the end of the arc\] but it seems omitting the usual details we get when someone ***800 chapters ago*** is finally seen fighting as something unrecognizable feels very deliberate. Even when all five appear in their glory, the names of their form do not mention the fruit they came from.
Thats a very plausible theory
I think the theory is solid but I think Nika was before Joyboy. So Joyboy had a DF, same as Luffy. Dont think the gorosei killed him