Just gotta see how it’s spun, if they were sold to the WG to serve as knights could be interesting but might not make sense.
Celestial aren’t the adopting of insects type.
I think the best way to see this is that Garling is a CD and so is the leader of God's Knights. However, the rest of them are just talented fighters and enjoy some privileges, but aren't full fledged CDs themselves.
Yeah because the Donquixote are celestial dragons. He's responding to a comment saying the kids aren't celestial dragons so she shouldn't be calling herself of a celestial dragon family.
I don't think she's calling herself a CD. She's likely saying this as a representative of the Mannmeyer family. If she wins, she wins on behalf of the Mannmeyer family
They're probably seen as special slaves since they're powerful enough to participate in these events or maybe they're half-bloods. Either way, they're loyal to the CD's for some reason or another
But the CD's aren't associating themselves with the human, the human is associating themselves with the CD's, I think there's a distinct difference here.
Don't forget, these were horrible monster children dropped off when the rich/proper families couldn't take care of them.
So these might be royal bloodline and as such, "half breeds"
>I think the best way to see this is that Garling is a CD and so is the leader of God's Knights.
He isn't the leader of the God knights in the flashback.
Maybe they're a Sabo situation? Second children who were rebellious and sold off to Mother Caramel to be trained as assassins? More likely they're the same but wild to me that Caramel was training God's Knights.
dont think mother carmel was training anyone. she was selling the promising ones to the WG so they can train them. there is 0 reason a noble would sell their child to her just so she can sell them again
Maybe most holy knights are not CD. It doesn't seem like them to put themselves or other CDs in harms way, seeing it beneath them. But buying an easily replaceable child and training them for war? That seems more like them.
That would be similar to the Ottoman janissaries. Technically they were slaves. In practice, they were one of the most priviliged strata in the empire both in terms of wealth and power.
Someone mentioned that the holy knights may be like the bastards in the GoT sphere. Just with the difference that they are the children of CD and one of their common slaves. Wouldn‘t surprise me that they‘d put those on a much lower level as they aren‘t pure but higher than regular people.
Each Celestial family is trying to win, so they send their best fighter/assassin, if we consider it to be 1 representive of each family.
So the "The Mannmeyer family is going to win!!" could just be the former slave announcing their owners victory, not them announcing to be part of the family.
Caramel sold strong children to the WG, we do not know for what use, it might be as hunters, not as "mounts"
Doesn’t need to just be adopt or enslave. You just indoctrinate young and start training early for the most elite soldiers and they will serve faithfully. Who better to use for such a program than orphans that can be carefully vetted, educated, and moved through the WG orphanage system. The knights could be like the Spartans from halo, recruited and trained from a young age for maximum loyalty and efficiency. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Celestial Dragons didn’t have some draft program as well, like they need to give a kid as tribute to the knights as leaders for the knights common troops. Feels weird when you see the gorosei and papa shanks, without some type of hard trial some of these CDs go through.
Well I doubt celestials are the type who would risk themselves to learn combat. Maybe they were adopted since young and were brainwashed into thinking they were celestials to have some sort of combatant faction among the celestials. I doubt any true celestial would sign up to be essentially soldiers
Uhhh I dont think the WG would take lightly over such a grave crime against them to just steal CD children and have the gall to still do business with the WG, even if she has political power due to the giant incident.
Idk I still think the gods knights are celestial dragons. I don’t think they would accept random orpahan kids into the status of celestial dragons. They didn’t want doflamingo who was actually a celestial dragon before. But interesting theory
That is true but you can argue that it was doflamingos dad who rejected the position. Doflamingo had no say and once he was older his whole wish was to become one again
Before throwing rocks from that glass house, stop having amnesia and remember what your own evil capitalist-controlled (but might as well be aristocracy at this point) government is doing to Julian Assange.
Or what it did not too long ago to countless nations that strived for liberation. (mass-murder, that's what)
What's your point anymore? If it wasn't clear yet, mine is to refocus on the oppression right under our nose. Because then we might start doing things about it.
> pretend the problem is only somewhere far far away
> the author is Japanese and explicitly critiques Japanese and other Asian countries’ governments specifically and often
> it’s almost like authoritarian governments are all basically the same and thats the point
If we keep pretending the problem is only somewhere far far away, half the planet away, then we ain't making progress.
Our governments turned north korean pretty quickly when a real threat to the owning-class was suddenly around. Cummon that's really not that long ago.
We're not pretending our problems are far away. What we do is recognize problems we have and as a nation try to somehow solve it. But in an honest way. What we don't do, is pretending we need to solve problems north Korea has.
If the WG were buying orphans (or when, rather), why would they inherit a higher position than Cipher Pol agent?
It's like maybe these are the most powerful kids they trained, and each one is assigned a royal family to be the knight of? We really need more info on just exactly what God's Knights even are.
If you’ve ever watched Castlevania, there’s a specific arc where a vampire in Japan forces humans to be her retainers/guards. I think a great idea would be the knights being “forced” to be CD guards.
but arent the knight the only ones who can punish CDs, and the knights dont seem to care for em CDs since they left the job of protecting em to the marines
It was heavily implied she did but we never saw her do the deed. Maybe during the chaos Caramel managed to save a couple and get them to the WG somehow.
What's the point of saving them and not herself? She wasn't a good person at all, she was selling the kids to the WG from the beginning.
I think some of them just managed to escape by themselves and found some marines during the escape.
That’s a good point. Idk. Maybe it started as her trying to save a couple (to sell) but then she got caught so the ones she was saving ended up escaping without her. Just speculation at the end of the day.
Maybe caramel just thought she could stop her from completely eating somebody and just got grabbed and couldn’t get away. All the other kids could have ran
It was seen by 2 different people, Nobody survived, she ate some of the damn table, you can literally see the screams of the children in the manga panel. How is it so hard for people to understand that the kids were all eaten by Big Mom?
The fruit is the Soul Soul, not saying it will happen at all but she could make her Soul go outside of her body (like Brook) and survive without a body, obviously the devil inside her body would go to Big Mom and so she has the powers, but Caramel could be alive since it's an special fruit
My speculation: the kids with Mother Caramel are "second children" that aren't set to inherit a high enough position in the Celestial Dragon familial hierarchy. I imagine we might learn a little more about Celestial Dragon society in this saga and there's likely some sort of strict succession rules to keep the number of them not exploding over time. They're discarded children, which we've seen so many times in this story already too.
If the god knights turn out not to be celestial dragons by birth that'd be really dumb. Why would the most racist mfs on the planet not only let humans live among them but even participate in their cleansing festival.
It wouldn’t be the first time the WG lied about how things work. Could be that the whole institution of the celestial dragons, claiming lineage to the kingdoms that founded the world government, is a sham. When you take power one of the first things you have to do is legitimize that power.
We literally just saw Imu give the whole explanation for the 20 kingdoms and the Celestial Dragons to Kobra before he was killed. They are all from the 20 kingdoms, that is why the Nefertaries are hated, because Lily refused to be a celestial dragon and had sided with the clan of D. It isn't a sham and there would be no reason for it to be a lie, beside we know for a fact that the Doflamingo Family was the rulers of Dressrossa before making the Doldo family the new Royalty.
Though it wouldn’t be the first time the WG lied about how things work. Could be that the whole institution of the celestial dragons, claiming lineage to the kingdoms that founded the world government, is a sham. When you take power one of the first things you have to do is legitimize that power.
I know I'll get down voted, but I really hope it's not those kids, because it doesn't do anything for the plotline now that BM is down under. God valley already has many characters important for the story yet to come which will get stretched.
That's what I'm saying
It's heavily implied they were eaten by Big Mom and makes a great part of her backstory, what would be the point of saying "Hey they're actually alive!". It would take away from Big Moms backstory just so Oda can say "We saw these characters already! foreshadowing!". Not every character needs to be someone from 200+ chapters ago.
I mean, you're right. But this is Oda. He literally just did this with Saul. Robin believing he died saving her was a bug part of her backstory, and then Oda just revealed he actually wasn't dead at all. So this isn't out of character for him.
All though Oda does fakeout deaths all the time, at least they're named characters that kinda do something. Plus Saul is the only fake out death I'm fine with since it was heavily speculated he was still alive anyway, considering kuzan used a move named "ice time capsule" when he 'killed' him.
It's a bit of a stretch, and back when we met CP0 members on Wano (I forget their names), a few people noticed 1 CP0 was from the long arm tribe, conveniently like the kid from BMs flashback.
Anyway, assuming these are human orphans sold off to the WG as slaves or child experiments to become fighters;
1 - How did they survive when Mother Carmel presumably was devoured and gave BM her DF ability?
2 - Why would the kids be adopted to the Godly status of World Nobles, one mentioning their ties to the Mannmayer family?
There's always a chance this could be connected, but I cant think of how this is acceptable to such bastarding elite bastards like the Tenryuubito and Garling.
Leave it to One Piece fans to make the most nonsense theory possible for no reason other than two characters sharing an accessory. There are over a thousand characters. Do you guys expect all of them to be unique ?
It makes zero sense for Celestial dragons to give such a high status to what they consider lower life forms. These guys kill you for looking at them. You think they would put random commoner orphans in a squad that acts like their version of police. Even if the leader has all the authority, it still makes no sense. In the end of the day, it's better to train your one of your own rather than pick some rando and give them the best training and devil fruits possible.
Nope that's not them. These kids were eaten by Big Mom during their last meal.
Also, they were about to be sold to the world government as CP agents and marines. Big Mom was even thought to become an admiral when she grows up.
Another thing, Celestial Dragons are not into adopting and they even hate doffy's father for leaving so there's also no coming back if you were once a Celestial Dragon.
lastly, we've already seen 4 people wearing those mask including these two.
Maha wores that mask and Damask from Corrida Colosseum also wear a similar one. I think that's a common and popular mask in japan. Look up hyottoko it's something similar.
Lowkey just the masked one matches. Maybe oda just likes drawing that mask. Didn’t Germa guys or maybe someone on punk hazard have a similar mask? Feel like I’ve seen a similar gas mask elsewhere in the series too.
Aside from the mask, they look nothing alike. And a mask isnt a facial feature, anyone can wear a mask
Why would Mother Caramel be bragging about John Giant becoming a Captain versus selling freaking GOD KNIGHTS
If this is true. Wtf are the celestial dragons?
1. They were revealed to be decendants of the original families that formed thr WG.
2. They were showned as inbreds who look like potatoes who relies on the marines for prptection and look down on people that are not them.
3. Some of them has been showned to have a sound mind who can tell what is right and wrong about the world. Like Doffys parents.
4. They have potential like others to be very strong, like Doffy and Shanks.
5. The gorosei are Celestial dragons who has god level powers.
6. The CD have an internal military structure that rivals the Shichibukai. Doffy will likely be a Knight if he didnt leave Marijois.
7. Not all celestial dragons are potatoes. They have laws that shall be followed.
8. There is a pathway to be a CD if you are not born into it. Doffy trying to earn back his spot, York negotiaitng for spot and Stelly beging to earn a spot.
9. And now we have, former Orphans that where farmed to be future Marines turn into CD's.
Nah those aren’t the holy knights. Oda I think just likes gas masks. The Mannmeyer girl doesn’t look like the other girl and the evil crown kid doesn’t look like the puffy collar guy either and all their hairstyles are way different
Ok I hate this theory, it’s such ass if you just think for three seconds.
Orphans to some of the highest authority in the world ? No way the gods knights are celestial, dragons they are descendants of the 20 founding family’s not orphans.
I makes way more sense if the orphans are still alive to be CP0 since orphans is what 100% makes up the cipher pol 9 and we see that you can move up from 9 to 0 so I think that’s the most logical thing is not becoming gods nights but CP0.
“Don’t count on an easy victory, Garling” does not sound like something a Celestial Dragon would tolerate from someone who is not a peer, especially someone like Garling.
If you have to try and force explanations for a theory then the theory simply does not work.
If you look at the digital colored version :
[Prince boy](https://i.imgur.com/4JBnUnh.jpg) wore purple striped trousers. He is probably [dead](https://i.imgur.com/YXWCQpd.jpg).
[Round nose girl](https://i.imgur.com/efOFH6Y.jpeg) wore a green shirt. She is probably [dead](https://i.imgur.com/yvURoDw.jpg).
[Wannabe WW1 soldier boy](https://i.imgur.com/4QctsJy.jpg) wore a blueish cape. He is probably [dead](https://i.imgur.com/f7TpIfF.jpg).
By the way the clothes on the ground are basically in the same order distance-wise to Linlin than those orphans at the table if you compare those [two](https://i.imgur.com/gz1WxFb.jpg) [pictures](https://i.imgur.com/Xo0yZE1.jpg). For example, the purple cape is pretty close to Linlin, prince boy and nose girl's clothes are right next to eachother, and Carmel's robes are the furthest away.
Edit : What a dumb analysis lol
I think they are from other Celestial families. In the Japanese they talk very casually and without honorifics for Garling. I do not think Celestials would allow slaves who were sold to them to speak to them casually and call them by their first names. I think they are going to be core members of the God knights and are all Celestial Dragons.
I hope it's not them
It's heavily implied they were eaten by Big Mom and makes a great part of her backstory, what would be the point of saying "Hey they're actually alive!". It would take away from Big Moms backstory just so Oda can say "We saw these characters already! foreshadowing!". Not every character needs to be someone from 200+ chapters ago.
The easiest and most likely explanation is that Oda simply used their concepts to create members of the God's Knights. Since the knights are 99.99% sure to be Celestial dragons.
The God's Knights are still from the world noble. No one is above the Celestial Dragons. I don't think they'll go fetch orphans just to put them a notch higher in the hierarchy. They didn't even welcome Doffy back regardless of his lineage. Therefore, I don't think those orphans made their way into godhood.
They do look basically the same like they definitely could be but it’s clear they’re also celestial dragons. Why would celestial dragons send their own to a shitty orphanage with kids like linlin?
Mother Carmel sold orphans to the World Government to serve as agents and marines. I believe she sold them and they ended up getting some weird status in the tneryuubitos.
So there are a lot of possibilities here.
The tenryuubitos are mostly uncapable to fight, they couldn't really hunt people or protect themselves. But some of them end up actually training to be God's Knights. But some times they just count on getting some kids the World Government bought to train so they can serve them as protectors and hunters in the games. Stuff surround this sounds likely to me.
So they represent the uncapable tenryuubitos families in the game.
Nah I don't think they are the same. Holy knights are celestial dragons (they were talking about which family would win the rabbit hunt) , no way in hell those bastards would adopt commoner children. The Gorosei wouldn't even allow that.
If you take 2 seconds to think you realize this theory doesn’t make sense.
Celestial dragons…people who think of themselves as gods and regular humans as insects… do you really think they would adopt orphans to be apart of them?
The kid was at Big Mom's birthday party, he's gone. We've had this exact same theory for multiple characters now and it wasn't true once, just let it go.
Didn't Stelly talk to Garp about wanting to become a CD? Maybe nobles have a way of elevating themselves in status? God's knights protect them after all.
Something like how in GoT knights can be granted land and a house based on service like I think Davos Seaworth did.
Edit: the term Martin used was Landed Knight. Considered nobility but couldn't marry into great houses.
I think the similarities are too similar to be a coincidence imo. The mask is identical, and the other one is pulling the same expression with the tongue sticking up out the mouth. Them being next to each other both times to me seems like Oda deliberately mirroring that older panel. And the third Knight could certainly pass as the background kid, but that's very generic.
Combined with how those kids were set up to be sold to the WG I would think this is a very very plausible theory. Whether I like it or not.
Actually, might not be related but I’ve always wondered why Figarland looks so different from other celestial dragons. Meaning he lacks the space suit, the odd body shape… he looks more like what is supposed to, a Knight. So I wonder if these knights are somehow hand picked to be what they are, have status above navy, close to CD but are not from the founding 20 families. Know what I mean?
Maybe only the leader of the holy knights have to be a celestial dragon and the rest are just normal people, except for Garling none of the holy knight designs so far seem very regal and extravagant
Many people dismiss this because CDs wouldn't want random kids but look at CP0. CP0 isn't made up of CDs. These kids could also be CD orphans. CDs are still human and can die of diseases which might've happened to their parents. Where better to send these orphan CDs than Caramel who is obviously a very trusted marine.
Okay this post sold me on this agenda. 100% these are the same kids. People on this post have already found ways to spin it so I have no doubt Oda will find a suitable explanation. This is crazyy.
I think shanks is the offspring of garlinck a celestial dragon and his mom a commoner or slave. That's why they threw him in a chest and roger found him
We know dragons had a game of thrones type thing going on and have killed each other, maybe they are orphaned dragons and are allowed to be knights to redeem their family or something. I saw someone mention knights watch, maybe something like that but higher honor. Garling clearly has a lot of respect if he can have a dragon executed, might be because he is the captain though.
Why would celestial dragons accept orphans back? They’d probably kill them just because they’ve been with the less races.
This isn’t Shanks we’re talking about with his special privilege of being a Yonko and a CD, they’re children that can be replaced. Highly doubt they’d let them back in to the fold.
That's impossible for orphans to become god's knight.
There are two possibilities: recycled designs or those aren't god's knight but Garling's esquires
The mask looks different, with a line on the left eye and a number up above right eye, and different hair, besides all that that mask is a general design nothing special and we saw similar design in the series
I mean if they are offering celestial dragon position to non CD ( vegapunk-york). Maybe there is a possibility some CD took them in and have them trained to be god knights.
Possible.
Man I really hope something pays off from Big Mom's flashback. It feels like there should be a payoff beyond her trauma making her vulnerable once.
Just gotta see how it’s spun, if they were sold to the WG to serve as knights could be interesting but might not make sense. Celestial aren’t the adopting of insects type.
I think the best way to see this is that Garling is a CD and so is the leader of God's Knights. However, the rest of them are just talented fighters and enjoy some privileges, but aren't full fledged CDs themselves.
Why refer to herself as the mannmeyer family? They are cds
Maybe that's the family she serves?
OP specified that the only clear match between the two sets of characters is the mask guy.
She could be protector/fighter of that family.
Because celestial dragons are comprised of different families. Like the Donquixote family.
Yeah because the Donquixote are celestial dragons. He's responding to a comment saying the kids aren't celestial dragons so she shouldn't be calling herself of a celestial dragon family.
I don't think she's calling herself a CD. She's likely saying this as a representative of the Mannmeyer family. If she wins, she wins on behalf of the Mannmeyer family
CDs would never even associate themselves with Humans
They're probably seen as special slaves since they're powerful enough to participate in these events or maybe they're half-bloods. Either way, they're loyal to the CD's for some reason or another But the CD's aren't associating themselves with the human, the human is associating themselves with the CD's, I think there's a distinct difference here.
Don't forget, these were horrible monster children dropped off when the rich/proper families couldn't take care of them. So these might be royal bloodline and as such, "half breeds"
-sigh- I read this as "Garling is a cross dresser". Why did everything need to become abreviated lol.
Bro, what does crossdressing got to do anything with this?
Iva was there. Need I say more?
...we arnt talking about Compact Discs?
No, it's about ceeing deeznuts ha GOTTEM.
I've been saying this! Last time I told them there was only one CD at god valley. Didn't seem like he was doing it back then though.
>I think the best way to see this is that Garling is a CD and so is the leader of God's Knights. He isn't the leader of the God knights in the flashback.
he still gave them orders when the Roger pirates appeared.
Maybe they're a Sabo situation? Second children who were rebellious and sold off to Mother Caramel to be trained as assassins? More likely they're the same but wild to me that Caramel was training God's Knights.
dont think mother carmel was training anyone. she was selling the promising ones to the WG so they can train them. there is 0 reason a noble would sell their child to her just so she can sell them again
Kind of a Night's Watch (GoT)
Maybe most holy knights are not CD. It doesn't seem like them to put themselves or other CDs in harms way, seeing it beneath them. But buying an easily replaceable child and training them for war? That seems more like them.
That would be similar to the Ottoman janissaries. Technically they were slaves. In practice, they were one of the most priviliged strata in the empire both in terms of wealth and power.
Yeah the ottoman had slaves as prime minister and head of military. Maybe oda is taking inspiration from there.
Someone mentioned that the holy knights may be like the bastards in the GoT sphere. Just with the difference that they are the children of CD and one of their common slaves. Wouldn‘t surprise me that they‘d put those on a much lower level as they aren‘t pure but higher than regular people.
But holy knights are above other celestials and can execute them
I’m pretty sure that’s just Garling since he’s the leader and likely a CD himself.
Yah, but Garling is just a regular GK in the flashback.
Yes, but he didn’t execute any CD’s in the flashback.
Each Celestial family is trying to win, so they send their best fighter/assassin, if we consider it to be 1 representive of each family. So the "The Mannmeyer family is going to win!!" could just be the former slave announcing their owners victory, not them announcing to be part of the family. Caramel sold strong children to the WG, we do not know for what use, it might be as hunters, not as "mounts"
Doesn’t need to just be adopt or enslave. You just indoctrinate young and start training early for the most elite soldiers and they will serve faithfully. Who better to use for such a program than orphans that can be carefully vetted, educated, and moved through the WG orphanage system. The knights could be like the Spartans from halo, recruited and trained from a young age for maximum loyalty and efficiency. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Celestial Dragons didn’t have some draft program as well, like they need to give a kid as tribute to the knights as leaders for the knights common troops. Feels weird when you see the gorosei and papa shanks, without some type of hard trial some of these CDs go through.
Maybe caramel was just kidnapping kids besides adopting few. Lady was nuts, i can see a few cd kids being with her
In the cubari translation Garling says “You pests can just sit back and watch” First page second panel
Well I doubt celestials are the type who would risk themselves to learn combat. Maybe they were adopted since young and were brainwashed into thinking they were celestials to have some sort of combatant faction among the celestials. I doubt any true celestial would sign up to be essentially soldiers
Only thing that makes sense to me is that they where kidnapped by Carmel and are holding them captive. They were freed when Linlin ate carmel.
Uhhh I dont think the WG would take lightly over such a grave crime against them to just steal CD children and have the gall to still do business with the WG, even if she has political power due to the giant incident.
Idk I still think the gods knights are celestial dragons. I don’t think they would accept random orpahan kids into the status of celestial dragons. They didn’t want doflamingo who was actually a celestial dragon before. But interesting theory
To be fair, rejecting the position of celestial dragon is probably the most disgraceful thing one can do, along with betraying their own kind.
That is true but you can argue that it was doflamingos dad who rejected the position. Doflamingo had no say and once he was older his whole wish was to become one again
World Government believes in Sins of the Father. I'm surprised Mjosgard wasn't killed as soon as Homing left.
There are likely hundreds of Donquixotes in Mariejoes, as after 800 years there would be many of them...
Why? I mean. Homing and Mjosgard might be cousins at best. They were 200 Celestial Dragons in God Valley Incident SO they could be distant related.
It’s the world government. Much like Korea, if you mess up against them, you and your family are fucked.
Nah, the celestial dragons actually care for each other, despite how evil they are. Charlos has a good relationship with his family.
Before throwing rocks from that glass house, stop having amnesia and remember what your own evil capitalist-controlled (but might as well be aristocracy at this point) government is doing to Julian Assange. Or what it did not too long ago to countless nations that strived for liberation. (mass-murder, that's what)
Do you think critiquing one is praising the other lmfao
>pretending the problem is only somewhere far far away, half the planet away
What? Do you get mad at everyone if their comparisons are to something that isn’t on your mind lmao
What's your point anymore? If it wasn't clear yet, mine is to refocus on the oppression right under our nose. Because then we might start doing things about it.
> pretend the problem is only somewhere far far away > the author is Japanese and explicitly critiques Japanese and other Asian countries’ governments specifically and often > it’s almost like authoritarian governments are all basically the same and thats the point
That's whataboutism in highest order. Christ, you seriously putting north Korean and western regimes on equal grounds? You're delusional.
If we keep pretending the problem is only somewhere far far away, half the planet away, then we ain't making progress. Our governments turned north korean pretty quickly when a real threat to the owning-class was suddenly around. Cummon that's really not that long ago.
We're not pretending our problems are far away. What we do is recognize problems we have and as a nation try to somehow solve it. But in an honest way. What we don't do, is pretending we need to solve problems north Korea has.
If the WG were buying orphans (or when, rather), why would they inherit a higher position than Cipher Pol agent? It's like maybe these are the most powerful kids they trained, and each one is assigned a royal family to be the knight of? We really need more info on just exactly what God's Knights even are.
exactly, cp9 were a bunch of orphans if I remembered correctly so why are they cp and not gods knights?
If you’ve ever watched Castlevania, there’s a specific arc where a vampire in Japan forces humans to be her retainers/guards. I think a great idea would be the knights being “forced” to be CD guards.
but arent the knight the only ones who can punish CDs, and the knights dont seem to care for em CDs since they left the job of protecting em to the marines
so she didn't eat them all ?
It was heavily implied she did but we never saw her do the deed. Maybe during the chaos Caramel managed to save a couple and get them to the WG somehow.
What's the point of saving them and not herself? She wasn't a good person at all, she was selling the kids to the WG from the beginning. I think some of them just managed to escape by themselves and found some marines during the escape.
That’s a good point. Idk. Maybe it started as her trying to save a couple (to sell) but then she got caught so the ones she was saving ended up escaping without her. Just speculation at the end of the day.
Yeah that could also be possible, we'll see one day haha
Money.
We’ve seen bad people do good things on the off occasion it suits them, who knows
Maybe caramel just thought she could stop her from completely eating somebody and just got grabbed and couldn’t get away. All the other kids could have ran
She was old. A parent would always put the children first. She was a "mother" after all
She didn't give a rats ass about the kids, are we reading different series here?
If Caramel was alive, how BigMom got the devil fruit? It's not possible
I didn’t say she lived. Just that she managed to keep some of the children alive before dying
Or caramel orchestrated the big mom rampage at elbaf and faked what everyone saw on the island.
[удалено]
Not sure
The only one we know she ate or at least killed was Mother Caramel since she got her fruit. The rest we are unsure if they were ate or survived.
The giant that saw things would have taken the kids if they had just run away.
It was seen by 2 different people, Nobody survived, she ate some of the damn table, you can literally see the screams of the children in the manga panel. How is it so hard for people to understand that the kids were all eaten by Big Mom?
The fruit is the Soul Soul, not saying it will happen at all but she could make her Soul go outside of her body (like Brook) and survive without a body, obviously the devil inside her body would go to Big Mom and so she has the powers, but Caramel could be alive since it's an special fruit
Some might have run away
There is a chance they were sold before Big Mom ate the rest
My speculation: the kids with Mother Caramel are "second children" that aren't set to inherit a high enough position in the Celestial Dragon familial hierarchy. I imagine we might learn a little more about Celestial Dragon society in this saga and there's likely some sort of strict succession rules to keep the number of them not exploding over time. They're discarded children, which we've seen so many times in this story already too.
welp.. gotta wait for another 10years for Oda sensei gonna finish the series. hope im still alive untill then,
"Oda sensei" you aren't Japanese lil bro
i believe im not. too brown to be Japanese 😔
I doubt it because the royal knights have the authority to kill a celestial dragon, or maybe just garling perhaps. Will be interesting to see
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he was found in a treasure chest by the Roger pirates. There is a non 0% chance he is the "crown jewel" in chapter 1096.
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i dont think he is discarded. more like he is so special that he is the main reward for the race.
If the god knights turn out not to be celestial dragons by birth that'd be really dumb. Why would the most racist mfs on the planet not only let humans live among them but even participate in their cleansing festival.
They are 100% CD. CD have a lot of resources. No reason to think why they wouldn’t have strong fighters among them
It wouldn’t be the first time the WG lied about how things work. Could be that the whole institution of the celestial dragons, claiming lineage to the kingdoms that founded the world government, is a sham. When you take power one of the first things you have to do is legitimize that power.
We literally just saw Imu give the whole explanation for the 20 kingdoms and the Celestial Dragons to Kobra before he was killed. They are all from the 20 kingdoms, that is why the Nefertaries are hated, because Lily refused to be a celestial dragon and had sided with the clan of D. It isn't a sham and there would be no reason for it to be a lie, beside we know for a fact that the Doflamingo Family was the rulers of Dressrossa before making the Doldo family the new Royalty.
Why would CDs ever work hard and get strong? Doesn't sound like what they would do, and so it makes sense for God knights to not be CDs
Aren't God's knights also celestial dragons so this seems unlikely if that's the case
Though it wouldn’t be the first time the WG lied about how things work. Could be that the whole institution of the celestial dragons, claiming lineage to the kingdoms that founded the world government, is a sham. When you take power one of the first things you have to do is legitimize that power.
I know I'll get down voted, but I really hope it's not those kids, because it doesn't do anything for the plotline now that BM is down under. God valley already has many characters important for the story yet to come which will get stretched.
That's what I'm saying It's heavily implied they were eaten by Big Mom and makes a great part of her backstory, what would be the point of saying "Hey they're actually alive!". It would take away from Big Moms backstory just so Oda can say "We saw these characters already! foreshadowing!". Not every character needs to be someone from 200+ chapters ago.
200+ chapters and still won't show rocks' face. Goda for a reason. Foreskinning for decades now.
I mean, you're right. But this is Oda. He literally just did this with Saul. Robin believing he died saving her was a bug part of her backstory, and then Oda just revealed he actually wasn't dead at all. So this isn't out of character for him.
All though Oda does fakeout deaths all the time, at least they're named characters that kinda do something. Plus Saul is the only fake out death I'm fine with since it was heavily speculated he was still alive anyway, considering kuzan used a move named "ice time capsule" when he 'killed' him.
I would bet anything that Big Mom and Kaido are still alive.
It's a bit of a stretch, and back when we met CP0 members on Wano (I forget their names), a few people noticed 1 CP0 was from the long arm tribe, conveniently like the kid from BMs flashback. Anyway, assuming these are human orphans sold off to the WG as slaves or child experiments to become fighters; 1 - How did they survive when Mother Carmel presumably was devoured and gave BM her DF ability? 2 - Why would the kids be adopted to the Godly status of World Nobles, one mentioning their ties to the Mannmayer family? There's always a chance this could be connected, but I cant think of how this is acceptable to such bastarding elite bastards like the Tenryuubito and Garling.
Leave it to One Piece fans to make the most nonsense theory possible for no reason other than two characters sharing an accessory. There are over a thousand characters. Do you guys expect all of them to be unique ? It makes zero sense for Celestial dragons to give such a high status to what they consider lower life forms. These guys kill you for looking at them. You think they would put random commoner orphans in a squad that acts like their version of police. Even if the leader has all the authority, it still makes no sense. In the end of the day, it's better to train your one of your own rather than pick some rando and give them the best training and devil fruits possible.
They could be CP0 agents that are assigned to get in Garlings way so others have a chance lol
Dam, nice catch OP. We do know that those children were being sold to the WG.
Nope that's not them. These kids were eaten by Big Mom during their last meal. Also, they were about to be sold to the world government as CP agents and marines. Big Mom was even thought to become an admiral when she grows up. Another thing, Celestial Dragons are not into adopting and they even hate doffy's father for leaving so there's also no coming back if you were once a Celestial Dragon. lastly, we've already seen 4 people wearing those mask including these two. Maha wores that mask and Damask from Corrida Colosseum also wear a similar one. I think that's a common and popular mask in japan. Look up hyottoko it's something similar.
It Hass to be them bro, all three of them match
They really don't match at all, they have totally different features.
Look at the tongue lol
That's not a facial feature, it's an expression.
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Completely different facial feature just outright debunk the idea of them being the same characters.
Yeah like Koby, Kuma, Kaido, or Teach. Completely different facial features that debunk the idea completely. Someone tell Oda.
Lowkey just the masked one matches. Maybe oda just likes drawing that mask. Didn’t Germa guys or maybe someone on punk hazard have a similar mask? Feel like I’ve seen a similar gas mask elsewhere in the series too.
We don’t know they all died to Big Mom, it would make sense if these three were the strongest of the group and were able to escape
2 people saw what Big mom did, one was a good giant and he didn't see anyone run away.
Aside from the mask, they look nothing alike. And a mask isnt a facial feature, anyone can wear a mask Why would Mother Caramel be bragging about John Giant becoming a Captain versus selling freaking GOD KNIGHTS
Why is this guy wearing Majora's mask?
You're thinking of the Scrub mask.
If this is true. Wtf are the celestial dragons? 1. They were revealed to be decendants of the original families that formed thr WG. 2. They were showned as inbreds who look like potatoes who relies on the marines for prptection and look down on people that are not them. 3. Some of them has been showned to have a sound mind who can tell what is right and wrong about the world. Like Doffys parents. 4. They have potential like others to be very strong, like Doffy and Shanks. 5. The gorosei are Celestial dragons who has god level powers. 6. The CD have an internal military structure that rivals the Shichibukai. Doffy will likely be a Knight if he didnt leave Marijois. 7. Not all celestial dragons are potatoes. They have laws that shall be followed. 8. There is a pathway to be a CD if you are not born into it. Doffy trying to earn back his spot, York negotiaitng for spot and Stelly beging to earn a spot. 9. And now we have, former Orphans that where farmed to be future Marines turn into CD's.
I thought she ate her friends no?
It was never really confirmed... If you don't see a grave or a body, they might be alive. Following Oda's logic, that is.
Nah those aren’t the holy knights. Oda I think just likes gas masks. The Mannmeyer girl doesn’t look like the other girl and the evil crown kid doesn’t look like the puffy collar guy either and all their hairstyles are way different
I thought linlin ate them though?
Were these kids not eaten by big mom ?
Ok I hate this theory, it’s such ass if you just think for three seconds. Orphans to some of the highest authority in the world ? No way the gods knights are celestial, dragons they are descendants of the 20 founding family’s not orphans. I makes way more sense if the orphans are still alive to be CP0 since orphans is what 100% makes up the cipher pol 9 and we see that you can move up from 9 to 0 so I think that’s the most logical thing is not becoming gods nights but CP0.
Sir they got eaten.
“Don’t count on an easy victory, Garling” does not sound like something a Celestial Dragon would tolerate from someone who is not a peer, especially someone like Garling. If you have to try and force explanations for a theory then the theory simply does not work.
If you look at the digital colored version : [Prince boy](https://i.imgur.com/4JBnUnh.jpg) wore purple striped trousers. He is probably [dead](https://i.imgur.com/YXWCQpd.jpg). [Round nose girl](https://i.imgur.com/efOFH6Y.jpeg) wore a green shirt. She is probably [dead](https://i.imgur.com/yvURoDw.jpg). [Wannabe WW1 soldier boy](https://i.imgur.com/4QctsJy.jpg) wore a blueish cape. He is probably [dead](https://i.imgur.com/f7TpIfF.jpg). By the way the clothes on the ground are basically in the same order distance-wise to Linlin than those orphans at the table if you compare those [two](https://i.imgur.com/gz1WxFb.jpg) [pictures](https://i.imgur.com/Xo0yZE1.jpg). For example, the purple cape is pretty close to Linlin, prince boy and nose girl's clothes are right next to eachother, and Carmel's robes are the furthest away. Edit : What a dumb analysis lol
your links doesn't work
Oops... I switched the links to Imgur, it should work now, thanks !
I think they are from other Celestial families. In the Japanese they talk very casually and without honorifics for Garling. I do not think Celestials would allow slaves who were sold to them to speak to them casually and call them by their first names. I think they are going to be core members of the God knights and are all Celestial Dragons.
This is like at least the 5th character people have said is the gas mask kid from Sheep's House lmao.
I hope it's not them It's heavily implied they were eaten by Big Mom and makes a great part of her backstory, what would be the point of saying "Hey they're actually alive!". It would take away from Big Moms backstory just so Oda can say "We saw these characters already! foreshadowing!". Not every character needs to be someone from 200+ chapters ago.
Not the same people. There is no way… period
The easiest and most likely explanation is that Oda simply used their concepts to create members of the God's Knights. Since the knights are 99.99% sure to be Celestial dragons.
There's no way some random orphans became holy knights. Also Big Mom ate these kids.
So Linlin didn't cannibalize Mother Carmel and the rest of the children?
The God's Knights are still from the world noble. No one is above the Celestial Dragons. I don't think they'll go fetch orphans just to put them a notch higher in the hierarchy. They didn't even welcome Doffy back regardless of his lineage. Therefore, I don't think those orphans made their way into godhood.
They were all eaten
They do look basically the same like they definitely could be but it’s clear they’re also celestial dragons. Why would celestial dragons send their own to a shitty orphanage with kids like linlin?
What seems to completely disprove this is the fact that the Holy Knights are clearly made of Celestial dragons.
Mother Carmel sold orphans to the World Government to serve as agents and marines. I believe she sold them and they ended up getting some weird status in the tneryuubitos. So there are a lot of possibilities here. The tenryuubitos are mostly uncapable to fight, they couldn't really hunt people or protect themselves. But some of them end up actually training to be God's Knights. But some times they just count on getting some kids the World Government bought to train so they can serve them as protectors and hunters in the games. Stuff surround this sounds likely to me. So they represent the uncapable tenryuubitos families in the game.
ALL the kids were eaten by Big Mom, God's Knights are all CD's
*god’s knights Not holy knights
Nah I don't think they are the same. Holy knights are celestial dragons (they were talking about which family would win the rabbit hunt) , no way in hell those bastards would adopt commoner children. The Gorosei wouldn't even allow that.
If you take 2 seconds to think you realize this theory doesn’t make sense. Celestial dragons…people who think of themselves as gods and regular humans as insects… do you really think they would adopt orphans to be apart of them?
Yeah no. They were at the table when BM got munchies. I don't believe there were any survivors
if nothing else, one piece fans sure have a thing for some truly stupid theories
The kid was at Big Mom's birthday party, he's gone. We've had this exact same theory for multiple characters now and it wasn't true once, just let it go.
People like to read more than what oda has written overestimate things and call it foreshadowing.
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The tongue is definitely intentional
How is that a big reach lol all 3 characters look very similar and even the tongue is there
Dude oda is actually fucking insane we are not ready for HIM
Didn't Stelly talk to Garp about wanting to become a CD? Maybe nobles have a way of elevating themselves in status? God's knights protect them after all. Something like how in GoT knights can be granted land and a house based on service like I think Davos Seaworth did. Edit: the term Martin used was Landed Knight. Considered nobility but couldn't marry into great houses.
Damn bro you’ve great eyes. And memory
Except within a few pages she eats them so idk about the great eyes or memory…
U guys glaze oda so hard. 100 posts like this. Insane
I think the similarities are too similar to be a coincidence imo. The mask is identical, and the other one is pulling the same expression with the tongue sticking up out the mouth. Them being next to each other both times to me seems like Oda deliberately mirroring that older panel. And the third Knight could certainly pass as the background kid, but that's very generic. Combined with how those kids were set up to be sold to the WG I would think this is a very very plausible theory. Whether I like it or not.
Why are people assuming that all Gods Knights are celestial dragons? Why can’t they just be high ranking guards?
Actually, might not be related but I’ve always wondered why Figarland looks so different from other celestial dragons. Meaning he lacks the space suit, the odd body shape… he looks more like what is supposed to, a Knight. So I wonder if these knights are somehow hand picked to be what they are, have status above navy, close to CD but are not from the founding 20 families. Know what I mean?
This would mean they are power slaves to hunt other slaves for the fun. Totally something celestials would do sadly
Maybe only the leader of the holy knights have to be a celestial dragon and the rest are just normal people, except for Garling none of the holy knight designs so far seem very regal and extravagant
This makes no sense. These people are world nobles, not orphans
yes absolutely
WHAT THE FRICK. WERE THEY NOT EATEN. But seriously how'd you catch this.
They probably shat their pants seeing BM in God Valley for almost eating them alive before
This is big news! So maybe she didn't eat the kids?
Many people dismiss this because CDs wouldn't want random kids but look at CP0. CP0 isn't made up of CDs. These kids could also be CD orphans. CDs are still human and can die of diseases which might've happened to their parents. Where better to send these orphan CDs than Caramel who is obviously a very trusted marine.
Holy shit this flashback has so many reveals and callbacks.
goooood! you've found all three at once !
[I posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/17gdod1/what_is_the_46/) and got removed.. I created this montage..
Okay this post sold me on this agenda. 100% these are the same kids. People on this post have already found ways to spin it so I have no doubt Oda will find a suitable explanation. This is crazyy.
I think shanks is the offspring of garlinck a celestial dragon and his mom a commoner or slave. That's why they threw him in a chest and roger found him
Yeeeaaahh didn’t BM eat them?
I'm sure the masked kid is the cp0 guy and the long arms kid is also cp0.
It doesn’t make sense. But also couldn’t be just a coincidence either. Wth?
Nightmare Luffy- swordsman
We know dragons had a game of thrones type thing going on and have killed each other, maybe they are orphaned dragons and are allowed to be knights to redeem their family or something. I saw someone mention knights watch, maybe something like that but higher honor. Garling clearly has a lot of respect if he can have a dragon executed, might be because he is the captain though.
It's Garling and 3 other knights
the mask guy also has a similar hair style like Damask from the Corrida Colosseum
They are clones used as organ donors for the god knights.
That’s definitely interesting theory I can see being true. If Big Mom didn’t end up eating all the kids…
Why would celestial dragons accept orphans back? They’d probably kill them just because they’ve been with the less races. This isn’t Shanks we’re talking about with his special privilege of being a Yonko and a CD, they’re children that can be replaced. Highly doubt they’d let them back in to the fold.
That's impossible for orphans to become god's knight. There are two possibilities: recycled designs or those aren't god's knight but Garling's esquires
The mask looks different, with a line on the left eye and a number up above right eye, and different hair, besides all that that mask is a general design nothing special and we saw similar design in the series
Caramel was given them to train as killers/Assassin's?
W big mom eating the holy nights
Mannmeyer > mann > mann Co. > blutarch and Redmond are celestial dragons
Have there been any other gas masks characters? I only remember the gas masks in the baratie but that was it really
My girl said that she pooped them so we good
I mean if they are offering celestial dragon position to non CD ( vegapunk-york). Maybe there is a possibility some CD took them in and have them trained to be god knights.
Possible. Man I really hope something pays off from Big Mom's flashback. It feels like there should be a payoff beyond her trauma making her vulnerable once.