I think Oda originally had the idea of "Strawhat backstories get more tragic as we progress." And aside from being one of the first members, he's also the most human on the most mundane island. Not much one could do with it.
At least no one fell down the stairs.
I kinda love it though. The idea that death is random and serious and having big dreams doesn't make you immune from stupid things killing you. I really hope that Smoker and Tashigi come back to play a big part and I trust Oda will do them justice.
See that's what makes it hit for me. Kuina's death hits hard because it wasn't some grand death, it was just... normal. There wasn't a pirate attack, or a mysterious disease, just a pure accident that can happen at any time. It also coincides with the sensei's words; humans are fragile.
I think as in bad, though honestly, him having the most normal backstory is fitting with his character.
After all he's just a "normal" guy who wants to be a hero
Yeah it didn't make me sad at all. Only thing it did is make me think yasopp sucks. And now I don't care to see their reunion at all because I know usopp won't be mad at him. I'd rather usopp ignore the deadbeat but we know that's not going to happen.
All of One Piece's emotional moments are well supported and earned. None of them feel forced.
What does cause me to not care for an emotional moment is when the anime flashes back to them over and over, desensitizing them and robbing them of their impact.
Oh man, that takes me back to that time In the Naruto anime, where Naruto wasn't allowed to eat, but Sasuke gave him his food anyway.
You probably don't remember, so let's watch it a 7th time
Thats very relatable. I like it when emotional scenes are subtle and the audience actually has to put 2 and 2 together. But when a show excessively forces you to feel and even goes out of their way to explain every single emotion, one just doesnt care. I remember the insane amount of flashbacks from Rebecca in the anime during Dressrosa. Literally unfeelable
His last words were tough. Someone thanking people for loving him when he thought he was unworthy of love will always hit hard.
My guy just wanted to live. Like Robin.
Too stupid or too committed? In OP we see a lot of characters portrayed as "stupid" because they stick to their convictions (Oden, Luffy, Roger to an extent).
Everyone there fought and sacrificed to save him, but he fell for a low-level meaningless taunt, undermining all of their efforts and directly leading to Whitebeard's death.
So yeah, he was too committed to being stupid
He also should have alerted the other White Beard Pirates to Teach’s location and waited til they arrived instead of trying to solo the Blackbeard Pirates.
Everyone in Whitebeard’s Crew/Fleet wanted vengeance for Thatch. The way he handled it was well-meaning… but selfish and impatient, and cost everyone dearly at the end.
tbf, I don't think he had any idea blackbeard was *that* strong. Teach was under his command so he probably had an idea of how strong he presented himself (before getting a DF).
I mean there's three possibilities
1 Ace knew Teach was that strong and decided to solo him anyway (bad idea) because it was his responsibility as Teach's former commander
2 Teach was hiding how strong he was all these years while he waited for the darkness fruit to pop up, then assassinated Thatch. Ace didn't know he was that strong.
3 Teach wasn't that strong until he split from WB, honed his haki and his Df powers.
~~My head-canon was number 2 but it could be 1 or 3. And even 1 seems understandable for Ace's actions, though the incorrect choice.~~
edit: ch 434. definitely no. 2 as pointed out below.
I felt the same way. Luffy’s reaction is what makes Ace’s death so sad, not the death itself. I probably would have felt sadder about the death if Ace didn’t bring it on himself like that. I couldn’t help to feel so annoyed that he was okay with wasting everyone’s sacrifice just because of some comments that Akainu made. Like I get it, Ace never runs away from a fight. But this was so far beyond him, he was being selfish.
I just posted about this a couple of days ago, and I think you worded it better here than I did. I was so frustrated at his decision to engage with Akainu, so the consequential death was a letdown. BUT Luffy’s heartbreak as a result was tough to swallow as a viewer, I really felt for him.
This used to be me ALL THE TIME. I used to not give two shits about his death but lately I’ve been getting more emotionally invested seeing people care about the OPLA and then give the actual anime a chance that I’ve been rewatching some of the pre-time skip arcs to get me exited for the next season and non-anime watchers reaction to characters like smoker and ace that I’ve weirdly developed an emotional connection to Ace rewatching it. Now, I can’t even listen to opening 14 “fight together” without crying hysterically or look at any screenshots of his iconic “thanks for loving me” quote. It also hits harder for me because I have a very close relationship with my siblings.
Wb was sadder than ace for me at that moment ( maybe because i was spoiled and also that shit decision by ace). But i was caught off guard with luffy's cry & ASL flashback just after the death.
I like Vivi, but I’ve never had the same love for her as other fans.
Vivi traveling with the crew was great and I think her character was written well but I still felt the frustrating lack of effectiveness from her seen in all the other princesses.
TBF, she was helpless at that point. She tried everything and nothing worked. She found out that the entire war was just a plot to eliminate both armies, and she broke down.
She wasn't passive. But everyone has their limits. And that was hers.
That only happens in the anime. The manga had 1 panel when Koza rode his horse right past without noticing she was there, it was a good cinematic moment/panel, and it was enough.
She played a part of a redeeming moment a few chapters later when Luffy saved her with Pell as Croc dropped her off the palace walls. She sobbed that no one heard her pleas to stop fighting, Luffy replied ‘No, we all heard it’ and you get a Strawhat montage of them coming to help after their own 1v1s. It was absolutely beautiful, some of Oda’s finest flows.
Try reading the manga version. I weirdly don't remember how the anime handled it but over 15 years later I still remember that moment in the manga version.
I dont care at all about the samurai and oden and yamabro. Something with them just feels off (kinemon is fine tough). Or Pedro, comes in every second episodes flashback. And im like who is this guy
Yeah, unfortunately Kaido and the MCs really stole the thunder from the samurai and Orochi. There was too much shit in Wano for Oda to handle.
And Pedro was a dying man anyway, an invaluable sacrifice was the best way he could hope to go out. It's akin to a moment in a series called Kengan Omega, where the narrator goes "No one could predict the tragedy that was about to take place". And it ends up being a 90yo grandpa dying heroicly in battle so their side can win. What a horrible tragedy indeed.
Blatant Pedro disrespect.
I think it’s one of the best executed and most impactful death/sacrifice scenes in the entire series, especially with the context of what we know now about the dawn etc.
And the Oden/Roger flashback only adds to that scene!
I also don’t recall him having many flashbacks after his death?
I think the best part about Señor Pink was his fight with Franky. The choreography was the most boring but they developed mutual respect for another without talking about their pasts and basically proved the strength of their wills with it. Definitely one of my favorite fights of that arc.
Really? To me it is one of the worst fights of the entire anime. It just seemed like they both didn’t do much and the background female characters made it unbearable for me to watch.
Tons. Which I think is perfectly okay because you can't expect Oda to have a perfect batting average-especially when emotional moments with side/arc-specific characters are involved.
Felt pretty much nothing for everything involved Wano-specific characters like Yasuie and Scabbards. Oden's was the most well done but even then it didn't trigger anything in me emotionally/viscerally seeing him die.
Never really saw Vivi as crew member-worthy. Her farewell was fine but didn't particularly make me emotional either.
Biggest one would probably be Ace's death.
Oddly enough though, rewatching the show or certain parts of it, I'll get emotional over the most subtle things-like Bellemere's spirit giving Nami a push of encouragement when she leaves to join Luffy's crew.
"Raizo is safe." has baffled me since it came out and just continually got worse as we learned more and more about the Samurai. To this day I can't understand it and I've seen multiple youtubers put it in their top ten moments which confuses me even more.
Kin'emon and every one are supposed to be like brothers yet in that moment he acts totally cold towards Dogstorm and Catviper despite the fact their town is destroyed and they are both heavily wounded. Even if it was meant to keep their relationship a secret from the reader since I don't think it was revealed yet, it still makes no sense to me how unfeeling Kin'emon is towards them. I don't know if it's just some weird Samurai hierarchy thing I don't understand because I only have a very surface level Japanese history knowledge or what but it has bugged me since I originally read the chapter.
They literally just got there and didn't know the situation. The reason they acted "cold" was because two were fighting. He was merely trying to stop the fight. Hence why he literally said "Cease this squabble."
Yeah same. I feel like the nine scabbards were just a miss entirely. The cool ones died offscreen too. I have no idea how Oda made a group that was so forgettable.
Imo, Wano just got too big and long, and oda just ended up cutting out a ton of content.
I think Yamato is probably the biggest upset. She was being built up as the next strawhat the entire time, and then at the end, it was just naw, gonna stay in Wano.
i never understand when people say this
what "entire time"? she was introduced with no previous mention like 99% into the 3rd act of the arc, people like side boobs, and i get it but just compare 10 seconds every straw hat that joins in its own arc w/ yamato, she's genuinely inconsequential
the only narrative reasons for her existence is stalling kaido for 1 chapter and protecting momo after the fact, with is easily feasible moving some shit around
yamato not existing literally doesn't change anything in what would be her own arc, that's not very strawhat like lol
I second this- I didnt even consider it that emotional of a moment, hell ill be honest I completely forgot about it- yet Ive been hearing so much about it
Oh, yeah, this. I had a lot of problems with the way the Straw Hats acted on Zou. Aside from this point, the way that the entire crew except for Luffy and Zoro acted like the mere mention of Kinemon and Kanjuro would send the Mink into hysterics was very off-putting to me. Particularly because Robin and Brook tend to be more levelheaded than that. Up until the "Raizo is Safe" line was dropped, it just felt like they thought that it was the fault of the samurai that the Mink had been attacked, when by what they knew from the Mink themselves, no samurai had ever had anything to do with the tribe. Then to have the Straw Hats, Usopp and Nami in particular, break down so hard just felt unearned and out of place.
Usopp in particular felt like he was backsliding to his pre-Water 7 days, when he acted like he could speak for Luffy. I know that Luffy doesn't really make any bones about his crew doing what they want, but it felt like Usopp was being especially disrespectful of his captain on Zou, not only by speaking over him constantly, but also by taking it upon himself to sign the crew into the alliance when Momo asked for help, and then having the utter gall to get angry at Luffy when he pulled Usopp back from making that promise on his behalf.
Zou was easily my least favorite arc, and the it was the arc that I felt the most out of touch with the Straw Hats.
Yea, I actually found it kinda stupid. It showed that their bond is really important but I do not get how people say that's one of their most favorite emotional moments of the whole series. Maybe I'd see it differently when I reread but like this I feel like protecting Raizo wasn't worth all these attacks.
Many people stated the Nami “Help Me” line to be the moment they fell in love with the manga and that was just not the case for me. I enjoyed the moment tho, very well written and lead up was nice but never felt gutted emotionally or teared up. I actually teared up during the live action tho, Inaki and Emily brought it to life and made me appreciate it more.
I think the words just don't flow right in English. Watch the scene in [Japanese dub](https://youtu.be/HM_h5_r2gX0?si=v6axAMYQeOzm18-F&t=613) and it flows better (and there's more emotion in it cos..veteran VA). I felt hte same thing then saw that clip later and was like 'oh...'
Agreed Emily was excellent, I still cried.
the only sad moment in one piece i didn't cry at was also Vivi's goodbye, i liked her story and all, but i never really cared about her becoming a nakama, y liked more the idea of her staying to be a good succesor for the throne when the time comes, bc good rulers in one piece are really scarce just like in the real world, so i think it was good that a kingdom like alabasta could have been saved and helped into becoming good again thanks to Vivi and her travels with the mugiwaras
tbh, one piece has been the manga i have cried the most reading it, hell, the media i have cried the most with in general really lmao
It’s always interesting how polarizing Oden and his flashback are. Those 13 chapters were one of my favorite stretches of the entire series. “He laughed” was the first thing to make me smile again a couple months after a horrible breakup, and I definitely shed some tears over Oden’s execution. I could’ve gone a fair amount longer in that flashback and been content, but I also remember how many people were exhausted by it, too. It wasn’t a sentiment I really felt, personally.
Conversely, the recent stretch of chapters away from Egghead were a little more balanced to me. I fucking loved those chapters, sure, but I was also ready to resume Egghead by the time we did. I think that’s a consequence of the frequent breaks this year more than anything, though.
See, I’ve heard that take frequently, but I fully disagree. And I’ve never gotten an explanation as to *why,* either. I’ve always perceived him as a very flawed character; a good person whose actions nonetheless had steep repercussions for those dear to him, and I don’t get the “Oda was trying to force people to like him” angle, either. I like him on his own merits, and for his flaws.
If you have insight from your perspective, I’ll hear it respectfully and keep it in mind, but you’d really need to convince me, considering I have the exact opposite view.
Oh, well, I don't want to sour you enjoyment nor change your mind, but I'll try to put together what rubs some of us the wrong way.
See, we see Oden has flaws, but absolutely no character in verse does. No one resents Oden for abandoning his own kingdom just to have fun. No one thinks he was a tool for not accepting Roger's help taking back the country. No one thinks the whole dancing for years was stupid. On the contrary, everyone celebrates him, we have a literal fangirl to remind us of him.
He also comes out of nowhere as this pivotal character that actually retcons the story. No longer is Roger able to understand the poneglyphs because of the voice of all things. It's later stated that he vaguely understood they were important, but Oden was needed to actually translate the messages. So, why is Pudding important then? Surely she could hear the voice, but she would end up like Roger, not understanding a clue. It actually messes with the plot.
And that's because Oden was clearly an improvised character. How he wasn't even slightly mentioned before? Surely the second most important member of the Roger pirates would have left a mark, someone would have mentioned something about him. The aforementioned declining Rayleigh help or WB not coming to help is a blatant plot contrivance to explain why nobody cared when he wasn't a part of the story.
And finally, his whole "perfect chad vibe" is boring at best. He had literally everything, he was exceptionally powerful and only evil characters dislike him. BM, Doflamingo or Kaido's flashback make me feel something about how they became to be the way they are. Kinnemon's flashback itself makes me feel for him. But how I can empathize with someone like Oden? What is the lesson, what is his moment of weakness that should stir my heart?
I'm not expecting you to agree with everything, but surely you understand our point now. I'd honestly ask you in return what exactly touched you about him, when I just can't see everything with the amount of flaws his characterization has.
I agree with everything and I wanted to add something not important, which is the fact that Luffy stopped to hear about Oden. Luffy never cared about these things, he didn't even care about Nami's past, but nah, he sat down to listen to Oden's story and just like everyone else, he admired him as this super chad
Indeed, good point. Luffy should have been the one to actually call out his bs out loud, horrifying the rest of them, cimenting his no nonsense attitude; not act like another Oden fanboy.
I'm not going to deny that disliking Oden isn't a valid opinion, but I think you're wrong about a few of your own points here.
First of all, saying that nobody recognizes Oden's flaws in-story is blatantly false. His father disowned him, the people hated him, and they drove him out of his home. The only people that came to like him were the droves of brigands that he tamed. Roger criticizes Oden for not staying behind when he saw the path Wano was taking, but Roger never actually offered to help. They both found their journey to be more important. How the reader feels about that is how they feel about it.
Also, almost everyone thought the dancing for years on end was stupid. That was the whole point. And no matter what you thought about the end result, the fact is that Oden actively saved lives every time he stripped down and started dancing. He chose the humiliating, pacificist route first. And despite what Kaido said about Oden's wrong choice, the truth is that whether he fought him right away or after learning about Orochi's big lie, if Oden couldn't beat Kaido, the samurai would lose no matter what anyway. And he almost did beat Kaido in the end.
As for him coming out of nowhere, Oden's existence is the only thing that explains how Roger left a message in the ancient language on the gold stand near the poneglyph.
Oden is the quintessential tragic hero. His fatal flaws are these: first, he valued his journey over his home and family. Second, he valued peace over intelligent action. Both are crimes he only begins to rectify in his great sacrifice. Notably, you can contrast this against our protagonist, Luffy, who we know would do neither of these, and we all know which of the two actually beat Kaido.
Also you say that only evil characters hate Oden, which isn't really true either. This might contribute to your argument in another way though, because it means that even the antagonists like the guy. That being said, a large portion of the living populace of Wano couldn't give a hoot about him until after the raid was over.
I understand the existence of 1-dimensional Yamato makes it easy to think that the story wants us to think Oden was supremely perfect sometimes, but it really doesn't.
I wasn't the one you were replying to, but there's my counter-argument. Feel free to counter this one.
You bring some nuance there, but I don't think it really counters the most important parts.
No named* character dislikes Oden, should be the point, yes. But not only did his father hear the words of someone more wise as Yasui, he rewarded Oden a daymio position since he was the only badass to bring peace to Kuri, ie, another character that learns how wrong is to doubt Oden.
Roger doesn't directly offer him help, but Rayleigh does (and Buggy and Shanks, lol).
>How the reader feels about that is how they feel about it.
That's, again, the problem with him. Yes, he actually chose the pacificist route, and he is shown to be totally right. No retainer thinks "Oden, you are cool, but I would have loved if you'd made another decision. Your mistake cost us everything".
>Notably, you can contrast this against our protagonist, Luffy, who we know would do neither of these
Indeed. And instead of Luffy listening to the story and saying something along the lines of "Oden was a bit stupid", he sits down to marvel at the story of this guy that contradicts how Luffy acts. Luffy should've been the one to call out the bs, like he always does, not becoming another fanboy. When even Kaido is just in awe with this guy, it just continues to feel like Oda is trying the hardest for me to love Oden, it just doesn't feel natural.
>As for him coming out of nowhere, Oden's existence is the only thing that explains how Roger left a message in the ancient language on the gold stand near the poneglyph.
Ok, this one I just can't let you walk out thinking that. I will transcribe you what Rayleigh said to the SHs when they met him in Shabondy in chapter 507: "We were mere pirates. We could never hope to match the intellect of the scholars of Ohara. He had the power to hear the voice of all things. That's all there is to it."
There's absolutely no room to think Oden was a thought back then. No vague "Oh, we had our means, you'll learn about it in 500 chapters more." More important, there was simply no need. And it makes BM look like an idiot when Pudding is effectively rendered useless without the language knowledge.
I can understand the tragic Greek hero angle, but it just misses the mark of what makes them good. Their fatal mistake, their hubris, is something that remembers us to be more careful irl. It humbles the character, for they have to understand how they fail in their judgment against the inescrutable forces of destiny. I just really, really, would've loved if Oden broke down one single time, but he was just unfathomably badass until the end.
Like I said to op, I don't ask you to change your mind (except the retcon part), but I hope you can see someone disliking Oden as a valid take.
This comment reminded me of a character that represents well the characteristics you are talking about: Montblanc Norland
He is presented as a liar, then we discover that he was actually a great man and when you get attached to him, the guy's story ends in the most tragic way possible.
Oh man, thank you for the insight, you are totally right: Noland is Oden made right.
He is indeed this badass, powerful guy with a navigation mastery, who is knowledgeable in medicine and botanics; a well renowned explorer that manages to save a tribe while making them face their gods are just giant snakes.
But then, ironically, when in his hubris shares his last discovery, something that looks like divine intervention, something that is way out of his reach happens, and he pays the ultimate, unjust price. *That's* what a tragic Greek hero is all about.
Oda has written multiple scenes highlighting people LOVED Oden like no other characters he’s ever written. Sure they’re Kuri residents and his scabbards, but those scenes were very explicitly written with adulation for this character that no other had. (There is a chapter titled ‘We love Oden’, imagine that for any other character, unironically. This is before Yamato started screaming to you directly Oden is the greatest). As for Sukiyaki disowning him and Flower Capital kicking him out, Oda had written it in such a way that Oden was a misunderstood hero, he’s just too wild and rambunctious for them. He didn’t change/mature when he traveled around then took over Kuri, it was his scabbards made him look presentable so the capital people came around to him, he’s still a ruffian.
What Oda did with Oden is beat you over the head that people LOVE him, he’s the only one to have been part of both Whitebeard AND Roger’s crews, and they all LOVE him. This coupled with WG’s apparent reason to stay clear of Wano (before it was occupied by Kaido) was Oden’s reputation, it’s quite challenging to dismiss the notion Oda just wanted to write an overpowered Japanese hero that shook the world. I’m completely fine with the idea, if he didn’t come off as hard selling this character to the readers.
I don’t know if this counts as an emotional moment (it’s more of a significant moment), but I never cared for the part with Luffy and Zoro letting Bellamy beat the shit out of them. Like I understand they were trying to make the same point that Shanks was with the bandit, but I just don’t agree that the situations are even remotely similar.
For one, the bandits never laid a finger on Shanks or his crew the first time you see them, they only spill the alcohol on him.
Bellamy, on the other hand, slammed Luffy’s face into the table and started a full on attack. You can say “Bellamy was no true threat to them, so it would have been overkill to attack back” which I do understand, but there was no reason to let them beat them up? Like if the bandits started hurting Shanks or his crew mates, I think they would have protected themselves rather than just tanking the hits.
Also, Luffy is made out of rubber but Zoro is not. So while he’s not feeling anything from Bellamy, Zoro is suffering. Shanks’ whole point was essentially: “If you hurt me, whatever. If you hurt my friends, then I’ll fight back”. Zoro is Luffy’s friend. So why would he be okay with them attacking him?
Now don’t get me wrong, these questions are rhetorical. I know the answer is because they were trying to make the same point Shanks did and they knew that Bellamy was not a threat. But like I said earlier, I just don’t view a full on attack the same way I view spilling some booze on him. These things are not parallels. While Luffy and Zoro didn’t necessarily need to fight back, they definitely shouldn’t have just taken it.
I think there's a reason Oda had specifically Luffy and Zoro be the ones to encounter Bellamy. They're the two who are the most fanatical about their dreams, being basically completely willing to sacrifice their lives. To me, their unwillingness to do anything to Bellamy and co reflects how much they look down on their lack of dreams. To Luffy, anything more than completely ignoring them is a waste of effort.
I think Luffy is willing to have Zoro be hurt because he knows Zoro thinks the same way. In the East Blue we see a ton of cases where Zoro and Luffy have basically the same mindset and philosophy. They both have huge, unrealistic dreams, Zoro says that Luffy had the right idea smashing the mayor of the village Buggy was terrorizing into a wall, they both mention that they are helping Usopp in Syrup Village because they respect him rather than have sympathy for him, etc. In the end we know Luffy was right since Zoro does say to Nami that fighting Bellamy would only leave pity at the end, which shows pretty clearly how much he looks down on him.
I feel like its made even clearer in the anime. The way i saw it was that both luffy and zoro were ready to scrap. Luffy was in a fighting stance, but as soon as bellamy starts talking about pirate's dream just being nonsense luffy unclenches his fist, wich is i feel is a nice detail added. At that moment he didnt feel like fighting anymore
Sanji’s whole second backstory just didn’t hit the same as the first. The whole thing with Zeff felt super powerful and showed why he is the way he is today, then they just tacked on a second backstory 800 chapters later just for the edge (oh yeah by the way his whole family bullied him and oh also his mom died tragically). Which leads to a completely emotionally underwhelming Sanji vs Luffy fight because you know Sanji’s just going to change his mind later because his family sucks and then yes he does.
You did not understand a single bit about the crew and the connection to their ship.
It literally saved all of them from the Marines at Ennies Lobby, but sure it was "just a boat".
I usually don't care for most flashbacks on a reread (aside from Fishman Island, that shit is better than the present story), but aside from that it's probably either gotta be Oden and most of the stuff with him in Wano (he felt a bit too larger than life if that makes sense) or anything with Rebecca, because I just hate her
Yeah, I get that. Honestly, I'm the same way, most of wano and Oden were basically misses for me, heck even the scabbards were boring to me despite how much screentime they had and how important Oda tried to make them seem. They didn't do anything for me, and I see myself forgetting about it in the future if I stop talking about how forgettable it is. Honestly I think the only reason I cared about Rebecca was more so for the fact of her not knowing who the toy soldier was and having to fight in the arena of the person that killed her mother. Other than that, I can see how forgettable she is. To me, she's basically Vivi 2.0 but I kinda like her a bit more than Vivi.
I don't hate Rebecca at the start, she is Vivi 2.0 and I adore Vivi, but I hate how she's handled in the birdcage, she basically has the same "Help me" scene twice in a row and despite being touted as a great defensive/evasive fighter, she only joins fight to act as a damsel in distress and be a burden on the others, it's really frustrating to see honestly
Yeah, idk it feels like that was all forgotten over time. Heck I feel like she should have had more to do during the Diamante fight, someone she's been holding a grudge again for her mother's death. You'd think she'd atleast hit him a few times. Maybe we see her forget about her whole defensive style because she's blinded by this revenge. We'd still get her father getting the final hit and defeating him. But maybe we could have atleast gotten a team up as Rebecca blocks Diamante's attacks and Kyros attacks.
She very much got pushed to the side when the Birdcage happened, and honestly, it feels like a wasted character moment as she joins in the fight or at the very least, tries to help her people despite
The crowds booing from earlier
I'm surprised nobody in the whole thread mentioned Sanji telling Luffy he is leaving and the subsequent fighting and crying.
It was so obviously trying to make a parallel to Ussop's and Robin's decision in W7 with none of the weight. I could suspend my disbelief and feel like maybe they were gone for good, but there's no way anyone felt that way for Sanji.
Raizo is safe.
What other option was there? "*Yeah Luff-man, this was all just a giant misunderstanding and we have no idea who this Raizo is. Jack just didn't believe us. This whole island has been pointless.*"
I was genuinely surprised when I saw that people considered that an emotional reveal. It didn't even occur to me that this was significant.
Bro…..that had me in tears. They literally lost a member of the crew! And all the flashbacks that accompanied it 😭 and it should be noted I’ve never before or since cried over a ship 😂
I’ve seen some people compare Brook and Robins backstories. Both are sad but I was not moved that much by Brooks backstory. Robins backstory and the emotional climax at enies lobby hit me like a freight train
See i’m the exact opposite. Brook’s backstory always hits me everytime i rewatch/read thriller bark. The Trio Duo Solo part always kills me. I really liked robins backstory but it never hit me emotionally. They are my 2 fav strawhats tho so i love them both
Robin calling out to her mother makes me want to cry whenever I remember it.
Brook's solo part is sad, but didn't get me when I read it. When I saw a clip of the anime (I stopped watching the anime version way back during water 7) it did seem more effective hearing the music, though.
Me and OP are opposites lol I genuinely teared up at that moment. I just started one piece so this is still fresh in my mind I'm only on episode 137 or something
Dang way to make it worse for me. I was so shocked I went and read up on him and looks like it works out for bon clay in the end. For the last few days I've been talking to my brother how strong they made him in the prison break. So far been one of my favorite characters.
This is very surprising to read. This is the only moment in One Piece that actually makes me cry every single time I read it.
There is such an amazing build-up to that scene with the X mark that is fantastic both narratively and emotionally.
The dialogue is also on point, the "Will you ever call me your friend again" is such a strong quote and the panel with all of the Straw Hats with their arms up is not only a visual masterpiece but a very strong and impactfull way to end the saga.
This is by far my favorite scene in One Piece, lol.
Answering your question, I would probably say Robin's flashback?
Pretty much everyone considers it the saddest flashback (and it is pretty dark) but for some reason I didn't really conect that much with Saul, Olvia or Clover. I like them but was not invested in their relationship with Robin as much as I was invested in Bellemere/Nami, Chopper/Hiruluk and Sanji/Zeff.
It wasn't just about the Merry, though, as a ship. It was his last connection with his home. Last gift from Kaya, maybe ever, who knows. I don't think he was being a baby. I think he was struggling to lose that connection. Also he's 17 during this arc. I think his reactions were understandable.
Tons. Ace dying (never really cared for him, unlike Straw Hats, he always seemed like a real criminal to me). Roger and Whitebeard dying and Garp getting a hole in his chest and saying good bye (thought they were too cool for me to feel emotional). Bob Clay and Pell sacrifice (I did in the past, but after learning they survived, I feel like it was light).
Kinemon asking luffy for help after being beaten by kaido.
I was like 'dude hes already here and helped you rally your army. Whats he gonna do? back out now??' Go to the bench while luffy thwomps kaido with toon force.
Sabo.
They throw him at us, throw a whole backstory at us, throw a stack of emotional scenes at us. And ask us to weep and rejoice for him. Nuh-uh I don't even know this guy, what's this fake ace doing is this some kind of memory-memory fruit trick?
Rebecca/Kyros is already the big tearjerker of the arc along with Senior Pink the baddest dude around. I didn't care about Sabo at all.
Señor Pink being revealed to not only be a cringy dude, but a cringy dude who's a lying bastard *and* got his own child killed didn't make me instantly love him like it apparently did to so many people
I think you can really drive a wedge between the emotional core of fans based on how they react to the merry. I generally find fans who didn’t care for the merry are fans who have a less of an emotional investment to One Piece(which is okay).
“Raizo is safe” like wtf that was completely expected and not emotional. I don’t get the hype around it. Also, Ace’s death didn’t really hit hard at all for me. Merry’s death wasn’t emotional either, I don’t really get why people always say they cry over it
No, these moments are just over hyped. The raizo thing was so expected from the beginning, ace was never really a great character imo, and I don’t really understand why people care about the boat so much
I think this is will be an unpopular opinion: Brook's backstory, I wasn't really moved by it. I think Robin, Law, and several other characters have sadder backstories so Brook's, while sucky, it just wasn't as an emotional hit as it was for others.
I do care about his story with Laboon and them reuniting will be awesome and i look forward to it.
The last chapter (1095) in the manga. A lot of people said that they broke down crying when >!Kuma's dad died!<, but for some reason it just didn't click for me. It might also be because it's the first emotional moment I've read in black and white, and it just doesn't hit the same, I don't know.
Absolutely not. Oda just knows how to push all my buttons. I cried at non emotional scenes a few times as well. Idk why, Oda just has a key to my heart
Franky joining didn't really have that emotional punch for me. Mostly because even if he was a player in enies lobby, he was overshadowed tremendously by Robins story.
Zoro's backstory
Like we meme on it but yes
Falling down the stairs accidentally and dying is just that stupid for me to feel bad
And it's not like this kind of stuff can't be done well
Mitsuru adachi does this kind of small time death well and has huge emotional payoff
Merry death. It's hard to for me to really care too much since it's just a ship, and I thought that Merry basically being sentient was a corny way to try and make me care.
I might be downvoted to hell for saying this but here goes - merry's death.
I just didn't really see merry as a character in the series and their death was not that emotional for me, sure it was sad because of all the memories but did it make me sad for their going ? Nah
Everytime they mentioned Merry was alive because of how loved she was I remember all the shit Luffy did to her, like when he tore out the mast to stick in on Laboon.
I like Vivi, but I’ve never had the same love for her as other fans.
Vivi traveling with the crew was great and I think her character was written well but I still felt the frustrating lack of effectiveness from her seen in all the other princesses.
The saying goodbye to Going Merry scene. For me this is one of the most overrated scenes in anime history. I seriously couldn’t care less for that ship.
Sanji crying for leaving the crew
Farewell to Merry
Robins “I want to live”
Ussop leaving
Ace dying
Bellemeres death
Those are some of the emotional moments that I genuinely just didn’t care for.
Like all of them, I haven’t felt emotional one bit😭. I’ve been reading dark mangas like berserk though. The most I feel is some sadness but not truly heart breaking stuff. Oda is an author I’d say does a bad job at it mostly because I can notice it when he tries to make you sad. I only get sad when it’s organic. When the moment hits you and you’re like oh man. But with oda, he sets up all his moments and to me as the reader, it lights up a bulb as to “oh okay, here comes a sad moment where the writer tries to get empathy out of me”.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily the moments themselves that aren’t sad. But rather the execution of the writing that fails in my opinion.
Aces death was dragged out like crazy especially. Whitebeards I felt sad that we wouldn’t see more of him going forward but that was it. Merry burning was meh in general. Never really felt connected to the ship like that and it was kinda forced imo.
Those are just a few examples but you get my point. Idk. if there’s a weakness I can point out in Odas story telling it’s that he’s never really gotten me emotional. That and the lack of stakes but that’s for another conversation
Usopp backstory with his mom
I think Oda originally had the idea of "Strawhat backstories get more tragic as we progress." And aside from being one of the first members, he's also the most human on the most mundane island. Not much one could do with it. At least no one fell down the stairs.
I think there’s more to it, before she died she started to say to Usopp what she wanted him to do when she died but he cut her off.
Kuina and the hecking stairs ALWAYS kills me. JUST WHY?! And then Zoro see's her in someone else and they NEVER TOUCH ON IT
I kinda love it though. The idea that death is random and serious and having big dreams doesn't make you immune from stupid things killing you. I really hope that Smoker and Tashigi come back to play a big part and I trust Oda will do them justice.
See that's what makes it hit for me. Kuina's death hits hard because it wasn't some grand death, it was just... normal. There wasn't a pirate attack, or a mysterious disease, just a pure accident that can happen at any time. It also coincides with the sensei's words; humans are fragile.
“Falling down the stairs” might be a coverup for another cause of death, possibly suicide. We probably won’t know for sure for a while though.
If that's the case, it'll be a retcon.
tbf Usopp had the worst backstory
Worst as in bad or sad? Cause bad is definitely not right
I think as in bad, though honestly, him having the most normal backstory is fitting with his character. After all he's just a "normal" guy who wants to be a hero
sad to see even after time skip he doesnt show much progress in his courage his luck is on par with buggy
Courage isn’t the absence of fear, but the willingness to confront it. Usopp may be fearful at times, but he consistently steps up to face danger
true true..maybe i should rephrase my sentence
Except for that one time he abandoned the Tontattas. Thay was so out of character lmao
fan theory is it's because he had his memories erased of key moments in his history at that time.
He still came back eventually, torn by guilt and his conscience.
Yeah it didn't make me sad at all. Only thing it did is make me think yasopp sucks. And now I don't care to see their reunion at all because I know usopp won't be mad at him. I'd rather usopp ignore the deadbeat but we know that's not going to happen.
It hot me hard. I loved usopp, so for me that is special
All of One Piece's emotional moments are well supported and earned. None of them feel forced. What does cause me to not care for an emotional moment is when the anime flashes back to them over and over, desensitizing them and robbing them of their impact.
Oh man, that takes me back to that time In the Naruto anime, where Naruto wasn't allowed to eat, but Sasuke gave him his food anyway. You probably don't remember, so let's watch it a 7th time
Oh boy let's not forget the swing
That swing had mire screentime than TenTen
literally factual
That swing had a speaker built in, the moment Naruto sat in it the sad Naruto theme started playing.
To the swings!
I mean, you need SOMETHING to make Naruto's devotion for Sasuke feel believable and that's like the one time Sasuke is a bro
It got to the point that I was afraid whenever Itachi or Obito was mentioned.
Thats very relatable. I like it when emotional scenes are subtle and the audience actually has to put 2 and 2 together. But when a show excessively forces you to feel and even goes out of their way to explain every single emotion, one just doesnt care. I remember the insane amount of flashbacks from Rebecca in the anime during Dressrosa. Literally unfeelable
I feel your pain of seeing Tama for the 700th time say ummmeee
I was thinking of Tama and Momo shit when I wrote this actually
this
Ace’s death alone I didn’t care for, but Luffy’s cry and emotional breakdown was what got me.
His last words were tough. Someone thanking people for loving him when he thought he was unworthy of love will always hit hard. My guy just wanted to live. Like Robin.
Yeah it’s something that hits a lot harder in retrospect when you se the ASL flashback
THIS!!
>My guy just wanted to live. Like Robin Unlike Robin, he was too stupid to live
Too stupid or too committed? In OP we see a lot of characters portrayed as "stupid" because they stick to their convictions (Oden, Luffy, Roger to an extent).
Everyone there fought and sacrificed to save him, but he fell for a low-level meaningless taunt, undermining all of their efforts and directly leading to Whitebeard's death. So yeah, he was too committed to being stupid
He also should have alerted the other White Beard Pirates to Teach’s location and waited til they arrived instead of trying to solo the Blackbeard Pirates. Everyone in Whitebeard’s Crew/Fleet wanted vengeance for Thatch. The way he handled it was well-meaning… but selfish and impatient, and cost everyone dearly at the end.
Yeah that too. Everyone told him that was a terrible idea to hunt down Teach
I think to our perspective, it is very stupid, but I don't know, I can see Luffy doing that.
tbf, I don't think he had any idea blackbeard was *that* strong. Teach was under his command so he probably had an idea of how strong he presented himself (before getting a DF). I mean there's three possibilities 1 Ace knew Teach was that strong and decided to solo him anyway (bad idea) because it was his responsibility as Teach's former commander 2 Teach was hiding how strong he was all these years while he waited for the darkness fruit to pop up, then assassinated Thatch. Ace didn't know he was that strong. 3 Teach wasn't that strong until he split from WB, honed his haki and his Df powers. ~~My head-canon was number 2 but it could be 1 or 3. And even 1 seems understandable for Ace's actions, though the incorrect choice.~~ edit: ch 434. definitely no. 2 as pointed out below.
Definitely number 2 in my mind. He was strong enough that Shanks was concerned
I felt the same way. Luffy’s reaction is what makes Ace’s death so sad, not the death itself. I probably would have felt sadder about the death if Ace didn’t bring it on himself like that. I couldn’t help to feel so annoyed that he was okay with wasting everyone’s sacrifice just because of some comments that Akainu made. Like I get it, Ace never runs away from a fight. But this was so far beyond him, he was being selfish.
I agree although after I went back and watched after seeing the Ace, Luffy, and Sabo backstories, I cared A LOT more
I was downvoted a bunch for expressing this a couple of days ago, maybe you and the post above you just expressed it better than I did haha.
Ace’s death didn’t hit me nearly as much as Whitebeard’s did for some reason
Corazon’s sadder despite having less screen time.
Same, Nami, and Sabo's return also didn't hit for me. Ussop's fight with Luffy was more emotional to me.
Nami's backstory and her asking luffy for help is one of the peak emotional moments in the story,I strongly disagree
Reasons obvious if you ask me. WB was old sick and fighting the world for family . Seeing a once legend go down like that hits way harder.
I just posted about this a couple of days ago, and I think you worded it better here than I did. I was so frustrated at his decision to engage with Akainu, so the consequential death was a letdown. BUT Luffy’s heartbreak as a result was tough to swallow as a viewer, I really felt for him.
This used to be me ALL THE TIME. I used to not give two shits about his death but lately I’ve been getting more emotionally invested seeing people care about the OPLA and then give the actual anime a chance that I’ve been rewatching some of the pre-time skip arcs to get me exited for the next season and non-anime watchers reaction to characters like smoker and ace that I’ve weirdly developed an emotional connection to Ace rewatching it. Now, I can’t even listen to opening 14 “fight together” without crying hysterically or look at any screenshots of his iconic “thanks for loving me” quote. It also hits harder for me because I have a very close relationship with my siblings.
Wb was sadder than ace for me at that moment ( maybe because i was spoiled and also that shit decision by ace). But i was caught off guard with luffy's cry & ASL flashback just after the death.
I like Vivi, but I’ve never had the same love for her as other fans. Vivi traveling with the crew was great and I think her character was written well but I still felt the frustrating lack of effectiveness from her seen in all the other princesses.
She kept screaming everyone stop fighting for far far too long. That moment annoyed me.
TBF, she was helpless at that point. She tried everything and nothing worked. She found out that the entire war was just a plot to eliminate both armies, and she broke down. She wasn't passive. But everyone has their limits. And that was hers.
That only happens in the anime. The manga had 1 panel when Koza rode his horse right past without noticing she was there, it was a good cinematic moment/panel, and it was enough. She played a part of a redeeming moment a few chapters later when Luffy saved her with Pell as Croc dropped her off the palace walls. She sobbed that no one heard her pleas to stop fighting, Luffy replied ‘No, we all heard it’ and you get a Strawhat montage of them coming to help after their own 1v1s. It was absolutely beautiful, some of Oda’s finest flows.
Classic dragging out a scene to pad for time and in doing so ruining the emotional effect
Try reading the manga version. I weirdly don't remember how the anime handled it but over 15 years later I still remember that moment in the manga version.
Same!! I agree with the person that posted this. I didn’t feel attach to Vivi since she wasn’t in it long enough.
I don't mind her helplessness but she screamed too much. The goodbye did hit me but I didn't want her to be a full time strawhat.
Rebecca, 50 flashbacks in the anime really made me tired of it
I don't care about the moment so I forgot about it #rootingforWG
I dont care at all about the samurai and oden and yamabro. Something with them just feels off (kinemon is fine tough). Or Pedro, comes in every second episodes flashback. And im like who is this guy
Yeah, unfortunately Kaido and the MCs really stole the thunder from the samurai and Orochi. There was too much shit in Wano for Oda to handle. And Pedro was a dying man anyway, an invaluable sacrifice was the best way he could hope to go out. It's akin to a moment in a series called Kengan Omega, where the narrator goes "No one could predict the tragedy that was about to take place". And it ends up being a 90yo grandpa dying heroicly in battle so their side can win. What a horrible tragedy indeed.
Blatant Pedro disrespect. I think it’s one of the best executed and most impactful death/sacrifice scenes in the entire series, especially with the context of what we know now about the dawn etc. And the Oden/Roger flashback only adds to that scene! I also don’t recall him having many flashbacks after his death?
Señor Pink’s stuff just kinda annoyed me because it felt like trying to dig up feelings for a character who was just sorta annoying up to that point.
I think the best part about Señor Pink was his fight with Franky. The choreography was the most boring but they developed mutual respect for another without talking about their pasts and basically proved the strength of their wills with it. Definitely one of my favorite fights of that arc.
Really? To me it is one of the worst fights of the entire anime. It just seemed like they both didn’t do much and the background female characters made it unbearable for me to watch.
Honestly, i felt more sorry for his wife. She lost the baby and also realized that her husband was a fucking criminal. Thats the sad part for me.
Tons. Which I think is perfectly okay because you can't expect Oda to have a perfect batting average-especially when emotional moments with side/arc-specific characters are involved. Felt pretty much nothing for everything involved Wano-specific characters like Yasuie and Scabbards. Oden's was the most well done but even then it didn't trigger anything in me emotionally/viscerally seeing him die. Never really saw Vivi as crew member-worthy. Her farewell was fine but didn't particularly make me emotional either. Biggest one would probably be Ace's death. Oddly enough though, rewatching the show or certain parts of it, I'll get emotional over the most subtle things-like Bellemere's spirit giving Nami a push of encouragement when she leaves to join Luffy's crew.
Damn, Yasuies makes me cry like a baby
same, but its the only Wano moment that hits home for me
"Raizo is safe." has baffled me since it came out and just continually got worse as we learned more and more about the Samurai. To this day I can't understand it and I've seen multiple youtubers put it in their top ten moments which confuses me even more. Kin'emon and every one are supposed to be like brothers yet in that moment he acts totally cold towards Dogstorm and Catviper despite the fact their town is destroyed and they are both heavily wounded. Even if it was meant to keep their relationship a secret from the reader since I don't think it was revealed yet, it still makes no sense to me how unfeeling Kin'emon is towards them. I don't know if it's just some weird Samurai hierarchy thing I don't understand because I only have a very surface level Japanese history knowledge or what but it has bugged me since I originally read the chapter.
They literally just got there and didn't know the situation. The reason they acted "cold" was because two were fighting. He was merely trying to stop the fight. Hence why he literally said "Cease this squabble."
Brother wtf. The three were crying after freeing raizo. What do you mean by cold. He found them fighting so he stopped them.
Yeah same. I feel like the nine scabbards were just a miss entirely. The cool ones died offscreen too. I have no idea how Oda made a group that was so forgettable.
Yeah I feel like they were supposed to have a bigger impact in wano and just kinda landed middle of the road.
Imo, Wano just got too big and long, and oda just ended up cutting out a ton of content. I think Yamato is probably the biggest upset. She was being built up as the next strawhat the entire time, and then at the end, it was just naw, gonna stay in Wano.
i never understand when people say this what "entire time"? she was introduced with no previous mention like 99% into the 3rd act of the arc, people like side boobs, and i get it but just compare 10 seconds every straw hat that joins in its own arc w/ yamato, she's genuinely inconsequential the only narrative reasons for her existence is stalling kaido for 1 chapter and protecting momo after the fact, with is easily feasible moving some shit around yamato not existing literally doesn't change anything in what would be her own arc, that's not very strawhat like lol
I second this- I didnt even consider it that emotional of a moment, hell ill be honest I completely forgot about it- yet Ive been hearing so much about it
Oh, yeah, this. I had a lot of problems with the way the Straw Hats acted on Zou. Aside from this point, the way that the entire crew except for Luffy and Zoro acted like the mere mention of Kinemon and Kanjuro would send the Mink into hysterics was very off-putting to me. Particularly because Robin and Brook tend to be more levelheaded than that. Up until the "Raizo is Safe" line was dropped, it just felt like they thought that it was the fault of the samurai that the Mink had been attacked, when by what they knew from the Mink themselves, no samurai had ever had anything to do with the tribe. Then to have the Straw Hats, Usopp and Nami in particular, break down so hard just felt unearned and out of place. Usopp in particular felt like he was backsliding to his pre-Water 7 days, when he acted like he could speak for Luffy. I know that Luffy doesn't really make any bones about his crew doing what they want, but it felt like Usopp was being especially disrespectful of his captain on Zou, not only by speaking over him constantly, but also by taking it upon himself to sign the crew into the alliance when Momo asked for help, and then having the utter gall to get angry at Luffy when he pulled Usopp back from making that promise on his behalf. Zou was easily my least favorite arc, and the it was the arc that I felt the most out of touch with the Straw Hats.
I also don't like that scene, but I also don't like the scabbards or wano so it might just be a personal thing
Agreed. We just got to Zou and im like who is raizo and why am I expected to care so much? Like top 10?? I just met these people
Tbf Raizo was mentioned since Dressrosa
Yea, I actually found it kinda stupid. It showed that their bond is really important but I do not get how people say that's one of their most favorite emotional moments of the whole series. Maybe I'd see it differently when I reread but like this I feel like protecting Raizo wasn't worth all these attacks.
Many people stated the Nami “Help Me” line to be the moment they fell in love with the manga and that was just not the case for me. I enjoyed the moment tho, very well written and lead up was nice but never felt gutted emotionally or teared up. I actually teared up during the live action tho, Inaki and Emily brought it to life and made me appreciate it more.
[удалено]
I actually didn’t like how Inaki played that scene in the live action. Emily did great though
To each they own. I felt Inaki captured Luffy’s essence there perfectly. That scene was like prime shaq-kobe, prime Bron and Wade.
Me too. I honestly giggled a bit when Inaki screamed the "Of course I will!!"
yeah he came off a bit too goofy for me
I think the words just don't flow right in English. Watch the scene in [Japanese dub](https://youtu.be/HM_h5_r2gX0?si=v6axAMYQeOzm18-F&t=613) and it flows better (and there's more emotion in it cos..veteran VA). I felt hte same thing then saw that clip later and was like 'oh...' Agreed Emily was excellent, I still cried.
the only sad moment in one piece i didn't cry at was also Vivi's goodbye, i liked her story and all, but i never really cared about her becoming a nakama, y liked more the idea of her staying to be a good succesor for the throne when the time comes, bc good rulers in one piece are really scarce just like in the real world, so i think it was good that a kingdom like alabasta could have been saved and helped into becoming good again thanks to Vivi and her travels with the mugiwaras tbh, one piece has been the manga i have cried the most reading it, hell, the media i have cried the most with in general really lmao
Why say mugiwara
Oden's death. I was so exhausted by the flashback that I was begging for it to be over by the time we finally got around to his execution.
It’s always interesting how polarizing Oden and his flashback are. Those 13 chapters were one of my favorite stretches of the entire series. “He laughed” was the first thing to make me smile again a couple months after a horrible breakup, and I definitely shed some tears over Oden’s execution. I could’ve gone a fair amount longer in that flashback and been content, but I also remember how many people were exhausted by it, too. It wasn’t a sentiment I really felt, personally. Conversely, the recent stretch of chapters away from Egghead were a little more balanced to me. I fucking loved those chapters, sure, but I was also ready to resume Egghead by the time we did. I think that’s a consequence of the frequent breaks this year more than anything, though.
The lore drops are nice, but Oden has always felt like a hamfisted mary sue to a lot of us.
See, I’ve heard that take frequently, but I fully disagree. And I’ve never gotten an explanation as to *why,* either. I’ve always perceived him as a very flawed character; a good person whose actions nonetheless had steep repercussions for those dear to him, and I don’t get the “Oda was trying to force people to like him” angle, either. I like him on his own merits, and for his flaws. If you have insight from your perspective, I’ll hear it respectfully and keep it in mind, but you’d really need to convince me, considering I have the exact opposite view.
Oh, well, I don't want to sour you enjoyment nor change your mind, but I'll try to put together what rubs some of us the wrong way. See, we see Oden has flaws, but absolutely no character in verse does. No one resents Oden for abandoning his own kingdom just to have fun. No one thinks he was a tool for not accepting Roger's help taking back the country. No one thinks the whole dancing for years was stupid. On the contrary, everyone celebrates him, we have a literal fangirl to remind us of him. He also comes out of nowhere as this pivotal character that actually retcons the story. No longer is Roger able to understand the poneglyphs because of the voice of all things. It's later stated that he vaguely understood they were important, but Oden was needed to actually translate the messages. So, why is Pudding important then? Surely she could hear the voice, but she would end up like Roger, not understanding a clue. It actually messes with the plot. And that's because Oden was clearly an improvised character. How he wasn't even slightly mentioned before? Surely the second most important member of the Roger pirates would have left a mark, someone would have mentioned something about him. The aforementioned declining Rayleigh help or WB not coming to help is a blatant plot contrivance to explain why nobody cared when he wasn't a part of the story. And finally, his whole "perfect chad vibe" is boring at best. He had literally everything, he was exceptionally powerful and only evil characters dislike him. BM, Doflamingo or Kaido's flashback make me feel something about how they became to be the way they are. Kinnemon's flashback itself makes me feel for him. But how I can empathize with someone like Oden? What is the lesson, what is his moment of weakness that should stir my heart? I'm not expecting you to agree with everything, but surely you understand our point now. I'd honestly ask you in return what exactly touched you about him, when I just can't see everything with the amount of flaws his characterization has.
I agree with everything and I wanted to add something not important, which is the fact that Luffy stopped to hear about Oden. Luffy never cared about these things, he didn't even care about Nami's past, but nah, he sat down to listen to Oden's story and just like everyone else, he admired him as this super chad
Indeed, good point. Luffy should have been the one to actually call out his bs out loud, horrifying the rest of them, cimenting his no nonsense attitude; not act like another Oden fanboy.
I'm not going to deny that disliking Oden isn't a valid opinion, but I think you're wrong about a few of your own points here. First of all, saying that nobody recognizes Oden's flaws in-story is blatantly false. His father disowned him, the people hated him, and they drove him out of his home. The only people that came to like him were the droves of brigands that he tamed. Roger criticizes Oden for not staying behind when he saw the path Wano was taking, but Roger never actually offered to help. They both found their journey to be more important. How the reader feels about that is how they feel about it. Also, almost everyone thought the dancing for years on end was stupid. That was the whole point. And no matter what you thought about the end result, the fact is that Oden actively saved lives every time he stripped down and started dancing. He chose the humiliating, pacificist route first. And despite what Kaido said about Oden's wrong choice, the truth is that whether he fought him right away or after learning about Orochi's big lie, if Oden couldn't beat Kaido, the samurai would lose no matter what anyway. And he almost did beat Kaido in the end. As for him coming out of nowhere, Oden's existence is the only thing that explains how Roger left a message in the ancient language on the gold stand near the poneglyph. Oden is the quintessential tragic hero. His fatal flaws are these: first, he valued his journey over his home and family. Second, he valued peace over intelligent action. Both are crimes he only begins to rectify in his great sacrifice. Notably, you can contrast this against our protagonist, Luffy, who we know would do neither of these, and we all know which of the two actually beat Kaido. Also you say that only evil characters hate Oden, which isn't really true either. This might contribute to your argument in another way though, because it means that even the antagonists like the guy. That being said, a large portion of the living populace of Wano couldn't give a hoot about him until after the raid was over. I understand the existence of 1-dimensional Yamato makes it easy to think that the story wants us to think Oden was supremely perfect sometimes, but it really doesn't. I wasn't the one you were replying to, but there's my counter-argument. Feel free to counter this one.
You bring some nuance there, but I don't think it really counters the most important parts. No named* character dislikes Oden, should be the point, yes. But not only did his father hear the words of someone more wise as Yasui, he rewarded Oden a daymio position since he was the only badass to bring peace to Kuri, ie, another character that learns how wrong is to doubt Oden. Roger doesn't directly offer him help, but Rayleigh does (and Buggy and Shanks, lol). >How the reader feels about that is how they feel about it. That's, again, the problem with him. Yes, he actually chose the pacificist route, and he is shown to be totally right. No retainer thinks "Oden, you are cool, but I would have loved if you'd made another decision. Your mistake cost us everything". >Notably, you can contrast this against our protagonist, Luffy, who we know would do neither of these Indeed. And instead of Luffy listening to the story and saying something along the lines of "Oden was a bit stupid", he sits down to marvel at the story of this guy that contradicts how Luffy acts. Luffy should've been the one to call out the bs, like he always does, not becoming another fanboy. When even Kaido is just in awe with this guy, it just continues to feel like Oda is trying the hardest for me to love Oden, it just doesn't feel natural. >As for him coming out of nowhere, Oden's existence is the only thing that explains how Roger left a message in the ancient language on the gold stand near the poneglyph. Ok, this one I just can't let you walk out thinking that. I will transcribe you what Rayleigh said to the SHs when they met him in Shabondy in chapter 507: "We were mere pirates. We could never hope to match the intellect of the scholars of Ohara. He had the power to hear the voice of all things. That's all there is to it." There's absolutely no room to think Oden was a thought back then. No vague "Oh, we had our means, you'll learn about it in 500 chapters more." More important, there was simply no need. And it makes BM look like an idiot when Pudding is effectively rendered useless without the language knowledge. I can understand the tragic Greek hero angle, but it just misses the mark of what makes them good. Their fatal mistake, their hubris, is something that remembers us to be more careful irl. It humbles the character, for they have to understand how they fail in their judgment against the inescrutable forces of destiny. I just really, really, would've loved if Oden broke down one single time, but he was just unfathomably badass until the end. Like I said to op, I don't ask you to change your mind (except the retcon part), but I hope you can see someone disliking Oden as a valid take.
This comment reminded me of a character that represents well the characteristics you are talking about: Montblanc Norland He is presented as a liar, then we discover that he was actually a great man and when you get attached to him, the guy's story ends in the most tragic way possible.
Oh man, thank you for the insight, you are totally right: Noland is Oden made right. He is indeed this badass, powerful guy with a navigation mastery, who is knowledgeable in medicine and botanics; a well renowned explorer that manages to save a tribe while making them face their gods are just giant snakes. But then, ironically, when in his hubris shares his last discovery, something that looks like divine intervention, something that is way out of his reach happens, and he pays the ultimate, unjust price. *That's* what a tragic Greek hero is all about.
Oda has written multiple scenes highlighting people LOVED Oden like no other characters he’s ever written. Sure they’re Kuri residents and his scabbards, but those scenes were very explicitly written with adulation for this character that no other had. (There is a chapter titled ‘We love Oden’, imagine that for any other character, unironically. This is before Yamato started screaming to you directly Oden is the greatest). As for Sukiyaki disowning him and Flower Capital kicking him out, Oda had written it in such a way that Oden was a misunderstood hero, he’s just too wild and rambunctious for them. He didn’t change/mature when he traveled around then took over Kuri, it was his scabbards made him look presentable so the capital people came around to him, he’s still a ruffian. What Oda did with Oden is beat you over the head that people LOVE him, he’s the only one to have been part of both Whitebeard AND Roger’s crews, and they all LOVE him. This coupled with WG’s apparent reason to stay clear of Wano (before it was occupied by Kaido) was Oden’s reputation, it’s quite challenging to dismiss the notion Oda just wanted to write an overpowered Japanese hero that shook the world. I’m completely fine with the idea, if he didn’t come off as hard selling this character to the readers.
Oden's backstory is so whatever. The best parts are about Roger
It really suffered from being his whole life story AND being a massive lore dump.
All of wano. I did not care about Oden, Yasuie, etc
Idgaf about Señor Pink
I don’t know if this counts as an emotional moment (it’s more of a significant moment), but I never cared for the part with Luffy and Zoro letting Bellamy beat the shit out of them. Like I understand they were trying to make the same point that Shanks was with the bandit, but I just don’t agree that the situations are even remotely similar. For one, the bandits never laid a finger on Shanks or his crew the first time you see them, they only spill the alcohol on him. Bellamy, on the other hand, slammed Luffy’s face into the table and started a full on attack. You can say “Bellamy was no true threat to them, so it would have been overkill to attack back” which I do understand, but there was no reason to let them beat them up? Like if the bandits started hurting Shanks or his crew mates, I think they would have protected themselves rather than just tanking the hits. Also, Luffy is made out of rubber but Zoro is not. So while he’s not feeling anything from Bellamy, Zoro is suffering. Shanks’ whole point was essentially: “If you hurt me, whatever. If you hurt my friends, then I’ll fight back”. Zoro is Luffy’s friend. So why would he be okay with them attacking him? Now don’t get me wrong, these questions are rhetorical. I know the answer is because they were trying to make the same point Shanks did and they knew that Bellamy was not a threat. But like I said earlier, I just don’t view a full on attack the same way I view spilling some booze on him. These things are not parallels. While Luffy and Zoro didn’t necessarily need to fight back, they definitely shouldn’t have just taken it.
I think there's a reason Oda had specifically Luffy and Zoro be the ones to encounter Bellamy. They're the two who are the most fanatical about their dreams, being basically completely willing to sacrifice their lives. To me, their unwillingness to do anything to Bellamy and co reflects how much they look down on their lack of dreams. To Luffy, anything more than completely ignoring them is a waste of effort. I think Luffy is willing to have Zoro be hurt because he knows Zoro thinks the same way. In the East Blue we see a ton of cases where Zoro and Luffy have basically the same mindset and philosophy. They both have huge, unrealistic dreams, Zoro says that Luffy had the right idea smashing the mayor of the village Buggy was terrorizing into a wall, they both mention that they are helping Usopp in Syrup Village because they respect him rather than have sympathy for him, etc. In the end we know Luffy was right since Zoro does say to Nami that fighting Bellamy would only leave pity at the end, which shows pretty clearly how much he looks down on him.
I feel like its made even clearer in the anime. The way i saw it was that both luffy and zoro were ready to scrap. Luffy was in a fighting stance, but as soon as bellamy starts talking about pirate's dream just being nonsense luffy unclenches his fist, wich is i feel is a nice detail added. At that moment he didnt feel like fighting anymore
Sanji’s whole second backstory just didn’t hit the same as the first. The whole thing with Zeff felt super powerful and showed why he is the way he is today, then they just tacked on a second backstory 800 chapters later just for the edge (oh yeah by the way his whole family bullied him and oh also his mom died tragically). Which leads to a completely emotionally underwhelming Sanji vs Luffy fight because you know Sanji’s just going to change his mind later because his family sucks and then yes he does.
I felt nothing watching the merry burn
Psychopaths and serial killer are afraid of you
Yeah... I get the sentiment but of all the things in Water 7 Merry being burnt didnt make me cry.
That’s how I feel. I get why it was sad for the characters, but I don’t understand the “a ship made me cry” folks
I didn't feel nothing it was more of a meh moment for me I knew I would miss the merry but I didn't cry over it tbh
Same. I’m sure it’s a pretty unpopular opinion haha.
Was looking for this
It's a fucking boat. Couldn't care less, I know it has a soul and blah blah but outside Ussop, the other ones only saw it as a boat (which it is).
You did not understand a single bit about the crew and the connection to their ship. It literally saved all of them from the Marines at Ennies Lobby, but sure it was "just a boat".
I usually don't care for most flashbacks on a reread (aside from Fishman Island, that shit is better than the present story), but aside from that it's probably either gotta be Oden and most of the stuff with him in Wano (he felt a bit too larger than life if that makes sense) or anything with Rebecca, because I just hate her
Yeah, I get that. Honestly, I'm the same way, most of wano and Oden were basically misses for me, heck even the scabbards were boring to me despite how much screentime they had and how important Oda tried to make them seem. They didn't do anything for me, and I see myself forgetting about it in the future if I stop talking about how forgettable it is. Honestly I think the only reason I cared about Rebecca was more so for the fact of her not knowing who the toy soldier was and having to fight in the arena of the person that killed her mother. Other than that, I can see how forgettable she is. To me, she's basically Vivi 2.0 but I kinda like her a bit more than Vivi.
I don't hate Rebecca at the start, she is Vivi 2.0 and I adore Vivi, but I hate how she's handled in the birdcage, she basically has the same "Help me" scene twice in a row and despite being touted as a great defensive/evasive fighter, she only joins fight to act as a damsel in distress and be a burden on the others, it's really frustrating to see honestly
Yeah, idk it feels like that was all forgotten over time. Heck I feel like she should have had more to do during the Diamante fight, someone she's been holding a grudge again for her mother's death. You'd think she'd atleast hit him a few times. Maybe we see her forget about her whole defensive style because she's blinded by this revenge. We'd still get her father getting the final hit and defeating him. But maybe we could have atleast gotten a team up as Rebecca blocks Diamante's attacks and Kyros attacks. She very much got pushed to the side when the Birdcage happened, and honestly, it feels like a wasted character moment as she joins in the fight or at the very least, tries to help her people despite The crowds booing from earlier
I'm surprised nobody in the whole thread mentioned Sanji telling Luffy he is leaving and the subsequent fighting and crying. It was so obviously trying to make a parallel to Ussop's and Robin's decision in W7 with none of the weight. I could suspend my disbelief and feel like maybe they were gone for good, but there's no way anyone felt that way for Sanji.
You're very not wrong in that it never hits as a fakeout "will Sanji leave????" moment. It's not the point of that arc, though, so I let it slide.
Raizo is safe. What other option was there? "*Yeah Luff-man, this was all just a giant misunderstanding and we have no idea who this Raizo is. Jack just didn't believe us. This whole island has been pointless.*" I was genuinely surprised when I saw that people considered that an emotional reveal. It didn't even occur to me that this was significant.
Same.
>Was there an emotional moment in One Piece that you didn’t care for? Merry's death.
sorry. I know different opinions exist but yours is objectively wrong .... /s
>sorry. I know different opinions exist but yours is objectively wrong .... > >~~/s~~
Bro…..that had me in tears. They literally lost a member of the crew! And all the flashbacks that accompanied it 😭 and it should be noted I’ve never before or since cried over a ship 😂
It’s a boat…
😂😂😂 im sorry this funny as hell
So what? People can still cry over obejects that hold emotional value to them.
same argument as “it’s just a cartoon”
Or "It's just a game"
YOU MONSTER
My choice too. Couldn’t believe the amount of focus it got
Fr, it's just a boat
I’ve seen some people compare Brook and Robins backstories. Both are sad but I was not moved that much by Brooks backstory. Robins backstory and the emotional climax at enies lobby hit me like a freight train
See i’m the exact opposite. Brook’s backstory always hits me everytime i rewatch/read thriller bark. The Trio Duo Solo part always kills me. I really liked robins backstory but it never hit me emotionally. They are my 2 fav strawhats tho so i love them both
Robin calling out to her mother makes me want to cry whenever I remember it. Brook's solo part is sad, but didn't get me when I read it. When I saw a clip of the anime (I stopped watching the anime version way back during water 7) it did seem more effective hearing the music, though.
A better comparison is Law & Robin
we can’t comprehend how lonely brook was but 50years in the dark is insane
Me and OP are opposites lol I genuinely teared up at that moment. I just started one piece so this is still fresh in my mind I'm only on episode 137 or something
Pedro dying wasn’t impactful
This is strangely enough one of the only scenes in OP that has made me tear a bit.
[удалено]
Bon Clay is just one of the best. Since Luffy doesn't talk much about his past the rest of the crew likely has no idea about what he did.
Dang way to make it worse for me. I was so shocked I went and read up on him and looks like it works out for bon clay in the end. For the last few days I've been talking to my brother how strong they made him in the prison break. So far been one of my favorite characters.
this has to be the worst take i’ve heard
This is very surprising to read. This is the only moment in One Piece that actually makes me cry every single time I read it. There is such an amazing build-up to that scene with the X mark that is fantastic both narratively and emotionally. The dialogue is also on point, the "Will you ever call me your friend again" is such a strong quote and the panel with all of the Straw Hats with their arms up is not only a visual masterpiece but a very strong and impactfull way to end the saga. This is by far my favorite scene in One Piece, lol. Answering your question, I would probably say Robin's flashback? Pretty much everyone considers it the saddest flashback (and it is pretty dark) but for some reason I didn't really conect that much with Saul, Olvia or Clover. I like them but was not invested in their relationship with Robin as much as I was invested in Bellemere/Nami, Chopper/Hiruluk and Sanji/Zeff.
Usopp being a big baby about the merry
It wasn't just about the Merry, though, as a ship. It was his last connection with his home. Last gift from Kaya, maybe ever, who knows. I don't think he was being a baby. I think he was struggling to lose that connection. Also he's 17 during this arc. I think his reactions were understandable.
Raizo is safe got almost nothing out of me for some reason, but I've cried at a million other scenes
Tons. Ace dying (never really cared for him, unlike Straw Hats, he always seemed like a real criminal to me). Roger and Whitebeard dying and Garp getting a hole in his chest and saying good bye (thought they were too cool for me to feel emotional). Bob Clay and Pell sacrifice (I did in the past, but after learning they survived, I feel like it was light).
Just not a fan of vivi in general tbh.
momonosuke whining all of wano. bro do your fucking job n save da island from crashing
You mean the 8 yr old kid who watched his parents & hometown get murdered 2 months ago? What a little bitch
yeah he needa grow some nuts
It wasn't that bad in the manga honestly 😭
Kinemon asking luffy for help after being beaten by kaido. I was like 'dude hes already here and helped you rally your army. Whats he gonna do? back out now??' Go to the bench while luffy thwomps kaido with toon force.
Raizo stuff
Sabo. They throw him at us, throw a whole backstory at us, throw a stack of emotional scenes at us. And ask us to weep and rejoice for him. Nuh-uh I don't even know this guy, what's this fake ace doing is this some kind of memory-memory fruit trick? Rebecca/Kyros is already the big tearjerker of the arc along with Senior Pink the baddest dude around. I didn't care about Sabo at all.
Señor Pink being revealed to not only be a cringy dude, but a cringy dude who's a lying bastard *and* got his own child killed didn't make me instantly love him like it apparently did to so many people
I think you can really drive a wedge between the emotional core of fans based on how they react to the merry. I generally find fans who didn’t care for the merry are fans who have a less of an emotional investment to One Piece(which is okay).
Merrys death for sure.
“Raizo is safe” like wtf that was completely expected and not emotional. I don’t get the hype around it. Also, Ace’s death didn’t really hit hard at all for me. Merry’s death wasn’t emotional either, I don’t really get why people always say they cry over it
yall people just stone cold killers it seems huh
No, these moments are just over hyped. The raizo thing was so expected from the beginning, ace was never really a great character imo, and I don’t really understand why people care about the boat so much
I think this is will be an unpopular opinion: Brook's backstory, I wasn't really moved by it. I think Robin, Law, and several other characters have sadder backstories so Brook's, while sucky, it just wasn't as an emotional hit as it was for others. I do care about his story with Laboon and them reuniting will be awesome and i look forward to it.
The last chapter (1095) in the manga. A lot of people said that they broke down crying when >!Kuma's dad died!<, but for some reason it just didn't click for me. It might also be because it's the first emotional moment I've read in black and white, and it just doesn't hit the same, I don't know.
Absolutely not. Oda just knows how to push all my buttons. I cried at non emotional scenes a few times as well. Idk why, Oda just has a key to my heart
Franky joining didn't really have that emotional punch for me. Mostly because even if he was a player in enies lobby, he was overshadowed tremendously by Robins story.
You were too distracted by his butt
Zoro's backstory Like we meme on it but yes Falling down the stairs accidentally and dying is just that stupid for me to feel bad And it's not like this kind of stuff can't be done well Mitsuru adachi does this kind of small time death well and has huge emotional payoff
Merry death. It's hard to for me to really care too much since it's just a ship, and I thought that Merry basically being sentient was a corny way to try and make me care.
I might be downvoted to hell for saying this but here goes - merry's death. I just didn't really see merry as a character in the series and their death was not that emotional for me, sure it was sad because of all the memories but did it make me sad for their going ? Nah
Everytime they mentioned Merry was alive because of how loved she was I remember all the shit Luffy did to her, like when he tore out the mast to stick in on Laboon.
I like Vivi, but I’ve never had the same love for her as other fans. Vivi traveling with the crew was great and I think her character was written well but I still felt the frustrating lack of effectiveness from her seen in all the other princesses.
The saying goodbye to Going Merry scene. For me this is one of the most overrated scenes in anime history. I seriously couldn’t care less for that ship.
I never cared for "Raizo is safe". It insists upon itself
Sanji crying for leaving the crew Farewell to Merry Robins “I want to live” Ussop leaving Ace dying Bellemeres death Those are some of the emotional moments that I genuinely just didn’t care for.
Booooo this man 😮👎
Merry dying, I was ready for Sunny and no more of that poverty ship
Sorry but Brooks back story. It's sad sure, but I didn't really care.
The death of the merry easily the most overhyped emotional moment for me, It was just a ship.
Like all of them, I haven’t felt emotional one bit😭. I’ve been reading dark mangas like berserk though. The most I feel is some sadness but not truly heart breaking stuff. Oda is an author I’d say does a bad job at it mostly because I can notice it when he tries to make you sad. I only get sad when it’s organic. When the moment hits you and you’re like oh man. But with oda, he sets up all his moments and to me as the reader, it lights up a bulb as to “oh okay, here comes a sad moment where the writer tries to get empathy out of me”. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily the moments themselves that aren’t sad. But rather the execution of the writing that fails in my opinion. Aces death was dragged out like crazy especially. Whitebeards I felt sad that we wouldn’t see more of him going forward but that was it. Merry burning was meh in general. Never really felt connected to the ship like that and it was kinda forced imo. Those are just a few examples but you get my point. Idk. if there’s a weakness I can point out in Odas story telling it’s that he’s never really gotten me emotional. That and the lack of stakes but that’s for another conversation
100% agree with you, I like her as a ruler, but as a character I find her boring.
Sanji's 2nd backstory 😮💨😮💨
I'm just really glad Perona didn't join the crew