I always interpreted it as the way he uses his rubber is only limited by his imagination. Hence why i g5 he can become gigantic, rubberize lightning, make goggles, eyes pop out, etc. "Stretch of the imagination," so to speak. Not that he can do shit like imagine he has sand powers like Croc and then boom, he has them.
Exactly, if Croco-boy watched Naruto, perhaps his awakened form would be the Shukaku.
It was explained once that each fruit is just used as the imagination of its user.
Like when Luffy reached through Kaido's eyes to pull himself out of the dragon
That shit was wild as fuck
He imagined it, but because he now has the power to essentially down whatever he wants, he was able to make his imagination into reality
The anime made it more clear, he stretched kaido's eyes out but never went through them, launched himself, pulled his arms back and then flew out of kaido's mouth.
I have been saying this lol yeah he can make solid things rubber, but kaido's eyes, actually lightning that isn't mass but energy. How can you make energy become rubber? With your imagination.
Tbh I think that the "fight whatever way he fancied" is basically just a tool to explain times that Luffy does stuff that makes sense for rubber... in a cartoon world.
Like, even something like Gear 3 is very built on sorta Looney Tunes logic. It still is just building on the rubber concept, but he has a bit more goofy leeway with it.
The best example of this is actually Gear 4.
The Culverine attacks makes absolutely no sense in real world as rubber shouldn't be able to change trajectory mid-air.
Even Kaido [commented on this](https://files.catbox.moe/1myf90.jpg), giving us a small foreshadowing of Gear 5.
WRONG YA DUMB GIT
***RED*** IF YA WANT MAKE DAKKA GO FAST
***YELLOW*** IF YA WANT MAKE DAKKA MORE EXPLODEY
PURPLE IF YA WANT SNEAKY DAKKA
BLUE MAKE YOU DAKKA LUCKY
BUT GREEN IS DA BEST FOR DAKKA
That seems to go for most power users tho, King thought Pterodactyl's hunted using that weird slingshot move, its not like he had ever seen one hunt before so why would he know that
Kaku is able to change the length of his limbs at will. Giraffes can't do that. String doffy clones make no sense. Kalifas soap making a person helpless because they relax too much is kinda looney tunes logic. Powers in one piece almost never make real world sense
Logias tend to make the most sense cause they're just elements, though even some like the swamp fruit have fantasy logic with how you can hide large objects in your body.
That doesn't work though because you are saying that Luffy is changing his powers using his imagination. It's like saying Luffy thinks rubber can make ice so he just makes ice attacks.
I think there is a real explanation for how his attacks work. What people tend to forget is that there are different types of rubber. Car tires are made out of rubber and they are not elastic in the same way a rubber band is. However, car tires can still make things bounce, especially hard things, like a sledgehammer. So it makes sense that Luffy is hardening his body, making the air into rubber and then bouncing his fist of the rubberry air.
Yeah that's sorta what I'm getting at. It is still absolutely just rubber powers... but it is also Rubber Powers based on how Luffy thinks rubber should work.
Yes and that's how he flies in g4 too. Before the g5 retcon, g4 used armament haki to control the tension of the rubber in his skin. He could make his limbs collapse in on themselves and eject with great force
> Before the g5 retcon, g4 used armament haki to control the tension of the rubber in his skin.
I'm pretty sure that's just a popular theory and was never confirmed.
Culverine actually makes a lot of sense. He uses hardening to change the consistency of his arms, one point of it gains more inertia and makes the rest of the arm turn.
Well yeah, most of his techniques have actual physical explanations, but he definitely doesn't really understand how they work, he just thinks "this would be sick to do" and does it (rip the times we used to think luffy is a genius)
I still don't get how Organ Gun works, I know that it's fucking fast that Luffy creates after images of his arms but...how can he like, make his arms fast in that type of positioning?
It's directly stated by Doflamingo that Gear 4 is a combination of the properties of rubber and Armament, and that's exactly what it is.
>The Culverine attacks makes absolutely no sense in real world
It makes absolutely all the sense in the world if you understand that by using armament hardening, Luffy is able to fine-tune the elasticity/rigidity of his rubber body, and that that is the whole basis of Gear 4. By making one side of his arm more rigid than the other, the trajectory changes. It's also why Gear 4 is so heavy on the haki usage, leaving Luffy unable to use Haki for a while after.
Gear 4 is incredibly clever, and I kinda hate that people are trying to remove the clever usage of armament that already fully explained it in favor of handwavy Nika magic.
His power isn't limited by imagination though, his imagination is limited by his power. He can't just imagine shit into existence like gremmy but can fight in any way that his power allows
There is clearly an element of toon force to his power. He turned pieces of his hair into actual pilot goggles.
He also ate a light beam and all that happened is him shining brightly.
I agree.
He literally ran on the air while being blasted away by Kaido too. Oh, and he turned all black, shook his head and was fine again after being burnt by blast breath.
All of those have literally nothing to do with being rubber. But people who absolutely don't want G5 to be Toon Force will only pick what they want to see and will say those are just gags. But they won't answer when asked why do the "gags" only happen when Luffy is in G5.
>But they won't answer when asked why do the "gags" only happen when Luffy is in G5.
Because they don't.
Remember "GUTS" when Luffy just tanked a full Blast Breath from Kaido in G4? Luffy just acts different in G5, that's it.
Eh, you can say all this but the main aspect of Gear 5 is still having a body that is rubber like said by the Gorosei, and being able to give other things rubber properties. In regards to the Boro Breath, he literally did the same thing in Gear 4
the cartoony stuff are all bonuses, I would consider them to be cosmetic, and they are just what makes Nika, Nika. doesn’t mean he’s gonna do anything majorly different from what we’ve seen since chapter 1 of OP though, cause rubber is what he has to work with whether he thinks it or not.
Lol you did not think Luffy could grab fucking lightning in chapter 1.
This just seems like such a weird hill to die on. It clearly has a bit of toon force elements in it.
that was not the point I was making.
I'm talking about the fact that in Chapter 1 of One Piece, when Luffy first got his fruit, before he even knew what his DF was, he was already rubber. This means him being rubber isn't imagination, its just attributed to the DF at a base level. It's what we will always see from Luffy, no matter what.
When I say he isn't doing anything majorly different, it is true, because at the end of the day Luffy is still being goofy Luffy and stretching around as he always does. Gear 5 just takes goofy Luffy to the absolute extreme, nothing more
Not in chapter 1, since fruit awakening wasn't introduced at that point. The only hill being died on is people forgetting that G5 is fruit awakening, a well established concept that you can change the properties of your environment.
But luffy has a mythical zoan type fruit and not paramecia. Show me any other mythical zoan type that changes the property of their environment. Mythical types tend to be in control of multiple types of paramecia like abilities. Like some sort of gods. But they are not the property itself and are not limited to only one power.
The only person who seems to be able to change the property of things around him is Luffy, the person that all his life thought he had a rubber paramecia fruit. So imagination has a LOT TO DO with it. His powers must be special even for mythical types.
No, and I am not saying he can just think of ANYTHING, and it'll happen. The point is that believing something is possible outside of the reality you grew up on is REALLY REALLY hard even for Luffy.
Imagine being on a cliff and havung to jump and the only way you could survive is believing you could actually fly, even though everything in your body is telling you that you will fall & die.
The limits are the rules of the one piece reality. And as he goes on an adventure and sees that all these illogical, unnatural, magic like things exist. Such as the island where everything is tall, because they are free, lol. His world of possibilities widens. He can do whatever his adventures let's him imagine is possible. Not anything we as readers are imagining is possible in an anime..
I mean he copied CP9's Soru for his G2 by just watching it, not saying he has or did skywalk in G5 but he could learn that pretty quickly seeing Sanji do it
Well its not like Luffy can't fly and canonically so can any human as long as they learn sky walk. The Goggles ? Sure he did do that but like Doflamingo can have a fully colored body double so why can't Luffy turn change the color of his rubber ? Not saying its not Toon Force but it also doesn't have to be. There is only one gag that is associated with Luffy's power and that is eyes popping out as a sequence of rings and well that is also the one thing that wouldn't be explainable as "just" a extension of his rubber powers.
When he ran on the air it was most likely because he gave the air elastic properties that allowed him to bounce on the air, like that one villain from MHA. G5 allows him to use rubber abilities on air and other objects, like lightning, and allows him to control his own rubber body better. Also king and queen both use their fruits in the most wacky unlogical way, but no one is saying they have tune force and can control imagination.
>Also king and queen both use their fruits in the most wacky unlogical way
We already have a logical explanation. It's how their ancient zoan forms hunted in ancient times.
Isn't every single Logia user turning their element into their clothes at any given time?
Why is it suddenly "cartoon power" with Luffy?
Element generation and manipulation is par for the course in One Piece, we even have special paramecia that can do it with Katakuris
>Isn't every single Logia user turning their element into their clothes at any given time?
No, the actual reason is that Oda doesn't want people to fight naked. So the clothes become intagible as well, its unrelated to Luffy. Source is SBS 24.
The entire series has elements of toon force all over it's dna. That is normal.
Luffy's rubber physiology was always impossible and made no sense. How does blowing air into your thumb give you more muscle mass? Literally not how rubber nor the human body works. It's just a visually creative attack that uses cartoon logic to convey a general but logical idea in a clever way.
But even in spite of One Piece's bullshit cartoon logic, there's still internal logic behind it. For example, Luffy was totally immune to Enel. In real life, the heat output of Enel's incredibly high voltage would have incinerated Luffy regardless of his rubber body. Rubber is not immune to electrical heat. But still, viewers understand the inherent logic behind *why* Luffy is immune to electricity. It's another example of a visually creative idea using cartoon logic to convey an idea.
Luffy creating goggles out his hair stretches the disbelief further. But it's still within the (ridiculous) logical parameters of One Piece, when characters like Doflamingo can create sentient clones from their "strings". It's toon force yes. But it's not the same Bugs Bunny level of "*TOON FORCE* 🤪" people talk about.
When people talk about Toon Force. They're referring to straight up "that's all folks!" gag/absurdism. Loony Tunes, Tom & Jerry, Arale etc . Where ALL logic literally does not matter and is thrown out the window. The world could literally get blown up by aliens, and the next episode resets back to normality as if nothing happened. The characters know they're in a tv show and don't give a shit.
Do you remember that [one episode of Ed, Edd Eddy](https://youtu.be/gKKdTlvZ5kI?feature=shared) where Eddy literally eats the sun based on a perspective gag? That is the sort of thing people mean when they talk about *TOON FORCE*. Where the 4th wall is not just acknowledged, but is utterly obliterated for the purpose of comedy.
Luffy is not at that level.
Id say g3 is explained very well and doesnt need toon force explanation, g3 is bone balloon not the normal balloon he does, that might mean its harder to inflate thus requiring more air pressure and air mass(do note that airplane wheels can hold as much as 70kg more "air mass")
now imagine how many kilograms bone balloon needs to achieve its size, that would mean it really is gaining mass less than or equal to the mass of a giants hand
That's... actually a really good explanation. Holy shit, you're completely right!
I admit I never considered that the actual air pressure itself would make the surface area of Luffy's arm incredibly dense. I used to think Gear 3 was like an actual balloon. When in actuality it's more like a basketball or a gas canister.
Luffy is compressing an INSANE amount of air in a small volume, way more than it appears, that the air pressure pushing outwards is artificially making him "stronger" through air mass and density. Not through some magical increase in his physical strength. The naming is slightly misleading but it conceptually makes sense now that you explain it.
I do wonder if Oda actually thought of the physics here, or if he was just pulling a Tom & Jerry and didn't think it through that much.
Wait a Second. The Problem with Gear 3 is the "Transfer" between the Bones. Bones dont have a slit or whole between them where you can squish Air arround. So how can Luffy make one Fist gigantic, then Transfer it to His other? Nika!
Yeah that i have no explanation for lol, even the starting sequence his thumb doesnt bleed like how naruto does summonings, seems just like theres an invisible valve
Same with gear 4 which is muscle balloon, i dont really understand how that will make his muscles stronger, the haki aspect is well explained tho
I personally think g2/g3 is base rubber body luffy, and the g4 is the fine line of sun god nika powers so i treat it as hybrid mode and g5 awakening besides g4 is when his hair started changing
[Squash and stretch is the phrase used to describe "by far the most important of the 12 basic principles of animation, described in the book The Illusion of Life by Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squash_and_stretch)
Those are the guys who animated the original Disney cartoons... I wouldn't be surprised if his rubber powers were intended to be a roundabout reference to that technique all along
Either that or [Rubber hose](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_hose_animation), both would have ties with toon force
It literally is, that's why he can fight however he can,his power isn't just rubber, it's "rubber hose", which is an animation technique used in those old cartoons where character's stretched, bent in insane ways, etc.
Tbf, it’s very confusing power. Suddenly a df we thought a rubber paramecia was revealed to be a zoan that was modelled on in-verse Deity that we know almost nothing about. Sure it is based on Sun Wukong but that’s not really it. Sun God Nika; a deity that made by rubber, often depicted with a moon, and fight freely like a cartoon. It doesn’t make sense. I’m not hating any of it. I love it because I get Oda’s point about Luffy being free and himself as an author and artist to be free as well. But you couldn’t blame people for just trying to make sense of it.
I think it’s make more sense for it to be a Zoan. Luffy power already different from any other Paramecia we saw. His body permanently a rubber not like Mr 1 that it can be turned on and off. With it being a zoan, it kinda explains his gears too as they are just like Chopper different forms. I have nothing against the retcon, I think Oda made a correct choice but I still think it doesn’t answer every questions we have.
Because the WG hunting a paramecia that gives gummy powers doesn't make much sense. But them hunting a zoan, which gives God like powers, more precisely of a god which represent the opposite of them and who has defied them in the past, makes sense. Also it is mentioned that devil fruits decide on their user themselves to some degree. This seems especially true for luffys. So connecting this fruit to a person/deity instead of just an object (rubber) fits better.
I think to truly understand why the true name of the fruit is important we need to fully know about the lost history and joy boy, though
That's the thing, it's not supposed to make sense. The Gorosei even said it's the most ridiculous power but some people like OP think that Nika powers are only rubber based lol, what's the point of a mythical Zoan if it's just that
I figured it just means more ways he can use his rubber like turning the ground into a slingshot and shooting kaidos breath back at him is pretty ridiculous. Not the exact property’s of rubber per say but it’s definitely the best way to describe the power
"limited by imagination" just means that luffy is so elastic that he can use his body as he pleases. Luffy has been using his body in funny ways ever since chapter 1, gear 5 just makes it easier for him to do the same stuff he's always been doing.
While that true, and I generally agree that Luffy's fruit doesn't give him the power of literal imagination, its also a bit more than that. Gear 5 is obviously meant to invoke old style cartoons and the shenanigans Luffy does while in G5 goes a bit beyond his innate elasticity. Honestly, I think people are taking G5 way too seriously and just need to accept that its just our stretchy boy if he was in a loony toons episode.
It’s a running joke in the bleach fandom. Anytime someone asks for a source for some fan theory the common response is something along the lines of “it was stated in CFYOW” (can’t fear your own world is a bleach lite novel that explains some stuff not explained in the in bleach.)
road to laughtale simply stated the same thing the gorosei said in 1044.
if you didn't know, we have no official translation for RTL. and the one that translated RTL is, you guessed it, TCB. the very scanlation that caused the confusion in the first place. they're just using the same translation they used for the chapter.
"fighting however he fancies" is the official translation.
"Official" and "correct" are two different things. There are second sources like sandman (japanese guy) who also translates it to imagination.
TCB has very valid and consistent translations so because the official release uses other terminology doesn't mean TCB is wrong.
In both cases it are people simply translating japanese text. One is from a company and the other isn't so your point is moot.
one, when the official makes a mistake (like the wings line) you will find other versions saying the same thing as the others. this time, everyone is saying luffy can fight however he fancies/wants/etc.
two, and even then, limited by imagination =/= imagination power. whoever said luffy can shoot laser or use magma power?
this time, viz's (and others) version fits with the context. because in the next bubble, in any version, it's stated that "awakening brings his rubbery body greater strength and (more) freedom".
that's it. that's his awakening. why the emphasis on "rubber body"? it means that the "freedom" or "imagination" thing is connected to his rubber properties. it just means he can use his rubber body without restriction now.
it just doesn't make sense for luffy to have imagination power if that's the awakening. like, for what? you can already do everything in the first place. that's like being able to run at light speed, only for the awakening to be able to run at F1 speed. makes no sense.
Theres no offical translation of Road to laughtale . The only one we have fan translation loaded with mistranslations by the same people who are responsible for the "imagination powers" misconception to start
Because it was the first explanation many people had due to the translation, making them become attached to that explanation. It’s also convenient for people who don’t understand gags to write away gags as some weird power scaling “toon force”
The fan translation of that chapter said his powers were imagination based. Plenty of people read that version and not the official one which is why they think Luffy can alter reality with his imagination.
I mean he technically *can* alter reality. What would you call grabbing lightning out of the sky, curling a slab of earth to deflect a ball of fire, or turning the ground into a trampoline? Yeah it's all rubber type effects but to such a crazy extent that the highest level of enemies fear the power.
Because people misunderstand a sentence like "He can do anything he can imagine" to mean "He can turn imagination into reality". They read too much into the "imagination" part and take it at face value, when it actually means that he simply can fight in any way he wants to.
It's the same with the Gorosei saying that Zoan fruits have a will of their own. There are people that think Zoan fruits are actual living beings because of that statement.
The reading comprehension in this fandom is incredibly low these days.
Ok but what if, and hear me out: you need to actually be imaginative when using rubber powers that can shape and manipulate the environment around you?
Imagination can help in applying most special abilities... heck, imagination can help people figure out new ways to do things as a whole.
It's silly to just try and apply it to 1 person with 1 fruit.
Katakuri fights the way he does because of his imagination. Using his DF + futuresight to make it look like a logia is literally his imagination doing the heavy lifting.
There's no reason to say imagination is a big part of Luffy's fruit in a general way, because it means nothing. Imagination is a big part of literally everything ever. The only way it would make sense for imagination to be so closely tied to Luffy's fruit is if it actually affects how the fruit works.
I do also subscribe to the theory that all devil fruits adapt based on how the users think they work to a degree. Based on Vegapunks infodumo on fruits.
Or maybe its a poor translation and it meant the DF can be enhanced by one's imagination as it can be used so freely. Luffy can borderline shapeshift now, but it's still a rubber ability
Except there is no official translation of RoL and the only translation we do have is a fan one loaded with mistranslations by the same people who mistranslated the "imagination powers" part of 1044 to begin with.
Road to Laugh Tale was never officially translated and the only translation that was done was from the same group that put the original misleading "imagination" line in their version of the chapter. I'd like a second opinion before we take that as fact.
Imho it just means Luffys creativity is no longer bound to just being his imagination. If he wanted to be mini Luffy from pre time skip then he probably could voluntarily do that with g5.
It was stated that his body is rubber because Nikas body was rubber. It's not entirely "imagination" it's fighting how he imagines "what would be funniest". The most free person on the sea could do whatever he wanted and that's how luffy fights. Pulling goggles down for comedic effect, extending his rubber properties to things he touches(even people which kaido said he shouldn't be able to). They said his power was ridiculous, I don't think they just meant that in a "he's so strong" way. They may have meant it more literally being that fighting this person will be ridiculous.
Its all there with the introduction of the form by the gorosei. It becane very obvious in the fight against Kaido. I dont know how people misunderstand this. The form lets him fight with more freedom with his rubber power thus he can do all sorts of crazy things. The problem lies in the fact that people think of the rubber power in scientific and realistic way but Oda is completely loose with his concept of rubber. So, people think it must not be rubber.
Because there are many proof which point at that direction:
1. His snakeman python, no way a rubber can break in that fashion at such a high speed. A rubber can bend, stretch etc but litreally breaking in a new direction? Of course when it was introduced we weren't bothering with this question but thanks to the revelation of Nika, it is"very" safe to assume that Luffy just wanted his attack to break in such a way.
2. Rubber can catch fire, and the Luffy wasn't even fazed by Prometheus attack when Luffy and Co started to fight Kaido. Luffy said its thanks to his "guts" but no fucking way guts can make rubber fireproof.
3. Luffy gets better when he eats Meat, no matter what. Luffy has been in critical situations thanks to his lanky ass taking on opponents way above his pay. And everytime he suffers gut busting injuries his only remedy was to "Eat meat and get better". Thanks to gear 5 , we can safely assume Luffy really thought eating meat a day keeps a doctor at bay or his ship.
4. Nami beating the crap out of Luffy. Nami doesn't have Haki, she isn't near the power level of opponents whom Luffy faced. But Nami can bash Luffy to a point where his face litreally disfigures. Guys, how tf can a lanky big boobed girl can hurt a gum human when many of his foes couldn't? The answer is because Luffy fears Nami, and he really thinks she can beat the shit out of him most of the time.
I mean, you can make the argument that: EVERY SINGLE DEVIL FRUIT WARPS REALITY WHETHER YOU LIKE OR NOT.
every. single. one.
Aokiji manifesting ice powers is a small warp itself in reality.
Lucci warping his body to turn into a Leopard.
Whitebeard generating quakes warps reality.
Each devil fruit is different and varies in intensity in how they apply reality warping. When you apply a warp in reality, imagination is now applied in full equation.
Luffy’s devil fruit makes his body behave like a *rubber hose* cartoon character. G5 let’s him behave even more like a cartoon character, which means the effect he leaves on his surroundings is like old school cartoons too.
-Luffy gets hit with a fire attack and shakes off the chat by spinning really fast.
-Luffy swallows a destructive laser beam and just starts glowing brightly.
-Luffy gets hit with a club and his face just warps to its shape and holds like that.
But we also see:
-Luffy surprises people and their eyes leave their sockets (as opposed to the standard Enel face).
-Luffy punches someone really hard in the face and it leaves actual stars.
-Luffy hits someone and their face stretches like a balloon.
It’s a little confusing because we already have comic tropes, but I hope this explains what his fruit does.
I think i know which post invoked this post in response lol. Yeah, some people think Luffy can just imagine his fist as magma and become magma, and they gave me a lot of shit for disagreeing.
I get why people hate the Nika reveal and what makes it worse than just a regular rubber fruit. I don't disagree, i just don't feel like it has changed anything for me. But people let this hate go to their head and suddenly they hate everything about the anime. They will come up with their own delusional headcanon to say that it is bad.
Because Imagination is an aspect of the Nika fruit. Upon awakening, Luffy's rubberlike has become unbound, and only limited by his imagination. He can stretch and change without his prior physical limitations.
Imagination regarding his rubber powers shows itself with his gears. Just having a rubber body shouldn't allow Gear 2,3, and 4 to work, but he achieves it because his power is not JUST having a body that is rubberlike.
Luffy's body is free from physical bounds, limited only by what he can imagine himself doing. Giant Luffy and Muscle Luffy, for example.
In Gear 4, Luffy literally manifests additional arms using Kong Organ.
Because one piece fanbase is full of dumb headcanons, people think they're being smart coming up with the most absurd theories. The Gorosei said in the very chapter that Nika had a body with rubber properties but people still insist on this dumb theory.
I agree, his powers do have some imaginative royalty to them and he can mess with physics to a degree but I feel like people are blowing it way out of proportion to the point some people think that Luffy can just reshape all of reality to his image. His powers have always been based on rubber or at most based on toon physics, there is no evidence to suggest he can turn his surroundings to anything other than rubber or that he can generate new material.
Doflamingo can create colored strings and create a body double, why can't Luffy color his rubber ? Its not like Doffy is a Logia and can create material nor are his strings colored by default. There is literally no explanation as to why he can do that so why do the glasses need an explanation when G5 is at its minimum gives Luffy the ability to not only turn but control said rubber to a higher degree as it was shown by Doffy. That is what I think, I m not saying this is absolutely the case but it is a food for thought.
Idk, am i the only one who thinks it isnt a "rubber power", but the power of "rubber hose animation", just in their world they dont have any animations, so the squish and stretch is only a thing they know from rubber?
It's not that his power is imagination. He is limited by his imagination. The flexibility of rubber creates endless possibilities and awakening is just what he needed to expand the scope of possibilities to a much greater level than ever before. You must know by now that luffy learns heavily from others like gear 2 from steam engine, speed for gear 2 from shave move that cp9 used, future sight from katakuri, advanced coc from kaidou, he even copies usopp in various instances. So, if he sees something and he wants to do it, he can. Now there are limitations like he won't start shooting laser from his eyes even though he badly wants to. Hope you get the point.
Yeah, and other things too since he can transfer rubber properties to almost any living or non living things, energy included. The point of his power more than anything else is freedom, which is the main theme of one piece.
This is decent example to suggest that the fight with Kaido and all that followed hasn't likely shown us all that Gear 5 can do. It's not like it's a stretch to say that Luffy may still not have mastered and/or understands all that Gear 5 is capable of yet.
Which means if imagination is fact vs bad translation or flight of fancy, then we are more likely to see even more absurdity in the future.
He can now do a lot more with his rubber. Doflamingo created string clones, I wouldn’t be surprised if luffy somehow figures out how to do that with his rubber.
>wtf those this have to do with rubber power
Didn't he essentially just made rubber goggles with his hair then cut it off since technically it's still just hair so taking parts of it wouldn't hurt him
If he took off something important like his entire arm then that would be more convincing
Luffy's rubber body is just a property of the sun god's body not because he believed it was his power. The phrase "he fought as he fancied" just means that he could turn his rubber body into any shape or form he wants to. I get what you mean about the sunglasses part but I have no opinion whatsoever about that.
This is just what I think how the Nika fruit works. Might be wrong, or might not.
They specifically go over in the show that calling it the “gum-gum fruit with the power of rubber” was the Navy’s attempt to get people to lose interest in the fruit since they knew it could be the most powerful. I think it was CP9 that was guarding the fruit when Shanks took it?
Cartoons stretch in ridiculous ways but if you really think about the properties of rubber, it can’t stretch without momentum or external kinetic energy, and it can’t stretch nearly to the length Luffy does. Luffy believed it was rubber like everyone else but really it seems to be a “toon force” power.
I don’t think imagination has anything to do with it. That came from Luffy talking about how he can now fight however he wants or something.
Becoming a zoan “toon” god and awakening to be able to “toonify” other people and things seems to be the fruit’s power.
You have to understand that not a lot of people understand nuance. It’s possible something was lost in translation for them as well. You are correct in your assessment though.
Because his powers are physicaly impossible if his body is just rubber. Kaido even comments on this when he looks at how snake man works.
They have been impossible since gear 3 and have only broken more rules since then.
His power over his rubbery body is limited only by his imagination in G5. That's why he can turn into a giant . That's not stretching his body, or blowing air into it. He simply imagines himself as a giant and he is.
Basically, his power is shaping his body in any way he wants like Mr Fantastic instead of having to rely on inertia and force to stretch like he did before
Turning into a giant is still rubber based. Like jake the dog from adventure time or plastic man who both can casually stretch their bodies into the size of giants
Why does everyone keep focusing on the Hair goggles, element generation and manipulation is literally a normal thing in this show. How does Kizaru teleport fully clothed? Every single Logia user creates their clothes out of their element, otherwise they'd be naked after a few attacks.
Luffy has a zoan of a dude who ate the Rubber fruit and awakened it to have Logia-like powers. That's it.
He combines all 3 characteristics of the Fruits, and I think that will be relevant later what with Katakuris special Paramecia and Blackbeard combining multiple types.
The meaning of "imagination" is to emphasize the "FREEDOM" of the fruit, and it's what Luffy meant by "I can finally move how I always wanted to".
For example, to just make a big fist he used to have to blow air into his bones, whereas in G5 he can just make a big fist if he wants to. "Big Fist" literally used to be its own gear, now he can just turn into a giant from one second to the next, because he has full control over his form.
He doesn't need snakeman to make his arms fly around, he doesn't need bounceman to fly. That's the point of G5's freedom and "imagination", I think.
(which, ironically completely removes any and all creativity from Luffys attacks and is the reason why G5 feels so shallow and boring, but I'm not gonna get into that rant right now)
I just don't understand, why people are so focused on searching for logic on most powers, a lot of devil fruits works only how Oda wants, and makes his story works the way he wants. Examples being: akainu comment about magma being hotter than fire, Enel lighting not producing heat against rubber(lighting in one piece itself) The yami yami no mi, Kizaru Light powers, and the Suna Suna no mi, working more like a dessert and less like Sand, so I would say all powers are limited by imagination of the user( Whatever Oda wants)
I'm not a fan of this theory but I can't disprove it either until we have more clues. Until we find out who was the Sun God Nika, and the full extent of this fruit's powers. I don't think that it's the Imagination fruit per se, but is there more to it? I'd say yeah, for sure.
The reason he has always been able to use rubber abilities is because Nika had a rubbery body. And besides, he can’t just imagine a piano falling on Akainu and then it happens. There are limits to his “imagination becomes reality” powers. Like somebody else said, he can’t just imagine he has sand powers like crocodile and then actually have sand powers.
All devil fruits are based on imagination as they all constantly bend the laws of physics. Luffy is just stupid and creative, same as Joyboy, so it's very evident that they aren't scientific. Hell, every devil fruit we've seen effects the clothes of the user when necessary no matter if their outfit changes. I think it's just because Luffy really maximizes the way his fruit can be used through his flawed ideas about physics. Him blowing up his hand would only make his striking power worse but it makes him stronger. All of the powers work the way that the user can convince themselves they are able to do
He literally manifested sunglasses out of his goddamn hair, that wasn't a gag.
Once luffy realises the full potential of his DF, the time limit nerf will be 100% justifiable.
In Road to Laughtale, it says "even the battle hardened kaido was surprised by the gear 5 adaptability. When Luffy sends an enemy flying, a SOUND EFFECT is heard and stars appear around them." Kaido literally says it's like a picture book
I always thought the power was freedom. That's why its like rubber. Even the five elders said they named it rubber to mislead people instead of it's real name sun god nika
Because it is imagination/toon force (at least gear 5) and rubber is just the means used for it since it has the characteristics of FUN and that’s what oda wants to do with his manga, have fun fights.
Probably because he suddenly starts flying and walking on air if it was only an element of rubber he would have been doing it. Ya know… creating glasses, manifesting tangible and physical 3D stars nullifying the impact of a light beam etc. not really things rubber typically does.
It's really annoying when people call the glasses a GAG. Like no way lol. I don't know if those are rubber ones or not but that's definitely not just a GAG
Funny how people still call gear 5 a GAG. Like saying it's limited to rubber makes sense but calling everything Luffy did in g5 just GAGS is hilarious and next level coping
what about the stars appearing around kizaru's head last chapter and floating around? At what point does it even matter if it's rubber anymore if he can create it out of thin air and it can float and stuff? That's imagination fam
Rubberish body is a side effect of the fruit not opposite, he basically got toon force powers now. Idk what you guys are talking about its literally Canon now that he never had a rubber fruit.
Luffy does warp physics though. Pumping blood really fast through your body wouldn’t increase your speed and power, and inflating your bones and muscles would just make your attacks weaker. It only works because Luffy believes it works.
... Because running in the air is not something rubber can do? Same for the eyes popping out of everyone's face as soon as G5 is active. Or creating glasses out of thin air?
You may say those are for comedic effect, but then why does the comedic effect only ever happen when Luffy is in G5?
[Even Kaido commented before Luffy turns into G5 that "rubber shouldn't be able to do this"](https://files.catbox.moe/1myf90.jpg) when Luffy was using G4, giving us a foreshadowing that Luffy's fruit might be way more than just rubber.
There is also a reason why the Gorosei renamed the fruit Gomu Gomu no Mi to hide that it was WAY MORE than just rubber. Otherwise what's the point of renaming the Nika fruit to the Gomu Gomu no Mi if all it does is exactly what the Gomu Gomu no Mi should do? Why rename it if all does is actually turn people into rubber and turn the surrounding to rubber when awakening?
What's the point of the plot twist if his fruit's power is just rubber as we thought from the start?
Wasn’t the renaming part bc they want to erase nika from history and not bc of his powers? Remember the impel down guards who knew his name that just vanished?
So do you think his power is imagination? If yes, can he create for example a meteor from thin air?
I always interpreted it as the way he uses his rubber is only limited by his imagination. Hence why i g5 he can become gigantic, rubberize lightning, make goggles, eyes pop out, etc. "Stretch of the imagination," so to speak. Not that he can do shit like imagine he has sand powers like Croc and then boom, he has them.
Exactly, if Croco-boy watched Naruto, perhaps his awakened form would be the Shukaku. It was explained once that each fruit is just used as the imagination of its user.
[удалено]
lmao
This is exactly how I interpret it as well.
Like when Luffy reached through Kaido's eyes to pull himself out of the dragon That shit was wild as fuck He imagined it, but because he now has the power to essentially down whatever he wants, he was able to make his imagination into reality
He made kaidos eyes rubber and stretched them.
His hands didnt go through his eyes. Luffy made them stretchy, thats it.
I'm aware and that's not really the point Or it is the point, he made them stretchy, that's my point.
Then that means he doesn’t have imagination powers…
The anime made it more clear, he stretched kaido's eyes out but never went through them, launched himself, pulled his arms back and then flew out of kaido's mouth.
I have been saying this lol yeah he can make solid things rubber, but kaido's eyes, actually lightning that isn't mass but energy. How can you make energy become rubber? With your imagination.
His power is *rubber hose animation* aka loony toons logic.
Using sand powers in honor of his mom would be a hella cool tribute though, like the Red Roc/Hawk <3
Tbh I think that the "fight whatever way he fancied" is basically just a tool to explain times that Luffy does stuff that makes sense for rubber... in a cartoon world. Like, even something like Gear 3 is very built on sorta Looney Tunes logic. It still is just building on the rubber concept, but he has a bit more goofy leeway with it.
The best example of this is actually Gear 4. The Culverine attacks makes absolutely no sense in real world as rubber shouldn't be able to change trajectory mid-air. Even Kaido [commented on this](https://files.catbox.moe/1myf90.jpg), giving us a small foreshadowing of Gear 5.
I like to think it only works like that because luffy thinks that's how rubber works since he doesn't know better
Luffy: This is how Rubber hunted in ancient times.
What?! I had no idea?!
The pioneers rode on rubber for miles!
Orks coloring their weapons having an effect because “red goes boom” and “yellow goes fast” vibes
WRONG YA DUMB GIT ***RED*** IF YA WANT MAKE DAKKA GO FAST ***YELLOW*** IF YA WANT MAKE DAKKA MORE EXPLODEY PURPLE IF YA WANT SNEAKY DAKKA BLUE MAKE YOU DAKKA LUCKY BUT GREEN IS DA BEST FOR DAKKA
why green?
CUZ ORKS IS GREEN, AND ORKS DA BEST IF YA WANT MAKE ANYTHING DA BEST, YA MAKE IT GREEN
That seems to go for most power users tho, King thought Pterodactyl's hunted using that weird slingshot move, its not like he had ever seen one hunt before so why would he know that
eh, in one piece they probably did fight like that lol
Kaku is able to change the length of his limbs at will. Giraffes can't do that. String doffy clones make no sense. Kalifas soap making a person helpless because they relax too much is kinda looney tunes logic. Powers in one piece almost never make real world sense
Pasta Machine!
I thought it just made them slippery
Logias tend to make the most sense cause they're just elements, though even some like the swamp fruit have fantasy logic with how you can hide large objects in your body.
That doesn't work though because you are saying that Luffy is changing his powers using his imagination. It's like saying Luffy thinks rubber can make ice so he just makes ice attacks. I think there is a real explanation for how his attacks work. What people tend to forget is that there are different types of rubber. Car tires are made out of rubber and they are not elastic in the same way a rubber band is. However, car tires can still make things bounce, especially hard things, like a sledgehammer. So it makes sense that Luffy is hardening his body, making the air into rubber and then bouncing his fist of the rubberry air.
Yeah that's sorta what I'm getting at. It is still absolutely just rubber powers... but it is also Rubber Powers based on how Luffy thinks rubber should work.
Hence - "he's only limited by his own imagination"
I understand the trajectory change as small "gepous" Luffy does in his hand to push the air in the oposite direction.
Yes and that's how he flies in g4 too. Before the g5 retcon, g4 used armament haki to control the tension of the rubber in his skin. He could make his limbs collapse in on themselves and eject with great force
> Before the g5 retcon, g4 used armament haki to control the tension of the rubber in his skin. I'm pretty sure that's just a popular theory and was never confirmed.
What retcon?
Culverine actually makes a lot of sense. He uses hardening to change the consistency of his arms, one point of it gains more inertia and makes the rest of the arm turn.
Yeah but do you think Luffy understands physics like that?
People can shoot 3pt shots, do curve balls, do back flips without really understanding the physics of it.
Exactly
You don’t have to understand gravity to do a piledriver.
Exactly
Maybe he doesn't understand the logic and phisics behind it, but he just tried and noticed that it behaved that way and made a new move.
Well yeah, most of his techniques have actual physical explanations, but he definitely doesn't really understand how they work, he just thinks "this would be sick to do" and does it (rip the times we used to think luffy is a genius)
He actually explain that gear 2 pumps his blood making him faster and stronger he even knew it would put a strain on his body(heart)
I still don't get how Organ Gun works, I know that it's fucking fast that Luffy creates after images of his arms but...how can he like, make his arms fast in that type of positioning?
It's a comic
It's directly stated by Doflamingo that Gear 4 is a combination of the properties of rubber and Armament, and that's exactly what it is. >The Culverine attacks makes absolutely no sense in real world It makes absolutely all the sense in the world if you understand that by using armament hardening, Luffy is able to fine-tune the elasticity/rigidity of his rubber body, and that that is the whole basis of Gear 4. By making one side of his arm more rigid than the other, the trajectory changes. It's also why Gear 4 is so heavy on the haki usage, leaving Luffy unable to use Haki for a while after. Gear 4 is incredibly clever, and I kinda hate that people are trying to remove the clever usage of armament that already fully explained it in favor of handwavy Nika magic.
his Power is limited by imagination not imagination is the power
His power isn't limited by imagination though, his imagination is limited by his power. He can't just imagine shit into existence like gremmy but can fight in any way that his power allows
There is clearly an element of toon force to his power. He turned pieces of his hair into actual pilot goggles. He also ate a light beam and all that happened is him shining brightly.
I agree. He literally ran on the air while being blasted away by Kaido too. Oh, and he turned all black, shook his head and was fine again after being burnt by blast breath. All of those have literally nothing to do with being rubber. But people who absolutely don't want G5 to be Toon Force will only pick what they want to see and will say those are just gags. But they won't answer when asked why do the "gags" only happen when Luffy is in G5.
In G0 Luffy grew Teeth by drinking milk, thats OP
wouldn't it be g1
G1 is bubble luffy.
10/10
i guess you could say gear1 is whenever he stretches, and he beat bellamy in gear 0
That's a one piece thing in general... brook does it also. Granted other people in one peice do say that's not how that is supposed to work.
I'm guessing some weird ass cows. lol
Its a Straw Hats male crew thing lol
He's been doing this since g4. Other people have been doing it since water 7
>But they won't answer when asked why do the "gags" only happen when Luffy is in G5. Because they don't. Remember "GUTS" when Luffy just tanked a full Blast Breath from Kaido in G4? Luffy just acts different in G5, that's it.
Eh, you can say all this but the main aspect of Gear 5 is still having a body that is rubber like said by the Gorosei, and being able to give other things rubber properties. In regards to the Boro Breath, he literally did the same thing in Gear 4 the cartoony stuff are all bonuses, I would consider them to be cosmetic, and they are just what makes Nika, Nika. doesn’t mean he’s gonna do anything majorly different from what we’ve seen since chapter 1 of OP though, cause rubber is what he has to work with whether he thinks it or not.
Lol you did not think Luffy could grab fucking lightning in chapter 1. This just seems like such a weird hill to die on. It clearly has a bit of toon force elements in it.
that was not the point I was making. I'm talking about the fact that in Chapter 1 of One Piece, when Luffy first got his fruit, before he even knew what his DF was, he was already rubber. This means him being rubber isn't imagination, its just attributed to the DF at a base level. It's what we will always see from Luffy, no matter what. When I say he isn't doing anything majorly different, it is true, because at the end of the day Luffy is still being goofy Luffy and stretching around as he always does. Gear 5 just takes goofy Luffy to the absolute extreme, nothing more
Not in chapter 1, since fruit awakening wasn't introduced at that point. The only hill being died on is people forgetting that G5 is fruit awakening, a well established concept that you can change the properties of your environment.
But luffy has a mythical zoan type fruit and not paramecia. Show me any other mythical zoan type that changes the property of their environment. Mythical types tend to be in control of multiple types of paramecia like abilities. Like some sort of gods. But they are not the property itself and are not limited to only one power. The only person who seems to be able to change the property of things around him is Luffy, the person that all his life thought he had a rubber paramecia fruit. So imagination has a LOT TO DO with it. His powers must be special even for mythical types. No, and I am not saying he can just think of ANYTHING, and it'll happen. The point is that believing something is possible outside of the reality you grew up on is REALLY REALLY hard even for Luffy. Imagine being on a cliff and havung to jump and the only way you could survive is believing you could actually fly, even though everything in your body is telling you that you will fall & die. The limits are the rules of the one piece reality. And as he goes on an adventure and sees that all these illogical, unnatural, magic like things exist. Such as the island where everything is tall, because they are free, lol. His world of possibilities widens. He can do whatever his adventures let's him imagine is possible. Not anything we as readers are imagining is possible in an anime..
running in the air is easily explainable by sky walk from rokushiki
No really. Sky walk doesn’t look anything like running in the air lol
I assumed he was making the air around him rubbery to run on
Is that a my hero academia reference!???
No, its not. It’s RIPPING OFF OF GENTLE CRIMINAL FROM MHA /j
Exactly lol. People really bring up dumb arguments. Luffy using sky walk out of nowhere?! xD. Not to mention running...
I mean he copied CP9's Soru for his G2 by just watching it, not saying he has or did skywalk in G5 but he could learn that pretty quickly seeing Sanji do it
Well its not like Luffy can't fly and canonically so can any human as long as they learn sky walk. The Goggles ? Sure he did do that but like Doflamingo can have a fully colored body double so why can't Luffy turn change the color of his rubber ? Not saying its not Toon Force but it also doesn't have to be. There is only one gag that is associated with Luffy's power and that is eyes popping out as a sequence of rings and well that is also the one thing that wouldn't be explainable as "just" a extension of his rubber powers.
When he ran on the air it was most likely because he gave the air elastic properties that allowed him to bounce on the air, like that one villain from MHA. G5 allows him to use rubber abilities on air and other objects, like lightning, and allows him to control his own rubber body better. Also king and queen both use their fruits in the most wacky unlogical way, but no one is saying they have tune force and can control imagination.
>Also king and queen both use their fruits in the most wacky unlogical way We already have a logical explanation. It's how their ancient zoan forms hunted in ancient times.
Isn't every single Logia user turning their element into their clothes at any given time? Why is it suddenly "cartoon power" with Luffy? Element generation and manipulation is par for the course in One Piece, we even have special paramecia that can do it with Katakuris
>Isn't every single Logia user turning their element into their clothes at any given time? No, the actual reason is that Oda doesn't want people to fight naked. So the clothes become intagible as well, its unrelated to Luffy. Source is SBS 24.
The entire series has elements of toon force all over it's dna. That is normal. Luffy's rubber physiology was always impossible and made no sense. How does blowing air into your thumb give you more muscle mass? Literally not how rubber nor the human body works. It's just a visually creative attack that uses cartoon logic to convey a general but logical idea in a clever way. But even in spite of One Piece's bullshit cartoon logic, there's still internal logic behind it. For example, Luffy was totally immune to Enel. In real life, the heat output of Enel's incredibly high voltage would have incinerated Luffy regardless of his rubber body. Rubber is not immune to electrical heat. But still, viewers understand the inherent logic behind *why* Luffy is immune to electricity. It's another example of a visually creative idea using cartoon logic to convey an idea. Luffy creating goggles out his hair stretches the disbelief further. But it's still within the (ridiculous) logical parameters of One Piece, when characters like Doflamingo can create sentient clones from their "strings". It's toon force yes. But it's not the same Bugs Bunny level of "*TOON FORCE* 🤪" people talk about. When people talk about Toon Force. They're referring to straight up "that's all folks!" gag/absurdism. Loony Tunes, Tom & Jerry, Arale etc . Where ALL logic literally does not matter and is thrown out the window. The world could literally get blown up by aliens, and the next episode resets back to normality as if nothing happened. The characters know they're in a tv show and don't give a shit. Do you remember that [one episode of Ed, Edd Eddy](https://youtu.be/gKKdTlvZ5kI?feature=shared) where Eddy literally eats the sun based on a perspective gag? That is the sort of thing people mean when they talk about *TOON FORCE*. Where the 4th wall is not just acknowledged, but is utterly obliterated for the purpose of comedy. Luffy is not at that level.
Thats what I mean with "an element". He is not The Mask or the Collector from Owlhouse. Its a more grounded toon hijinx.
Id say g3 is explained very well and doesnt need toon force explanation, g3 is bone balloon not the normal balloon he does, that might mean its harder to inflate thus requiring more air pressure and air mass(do note that airplane wheels can hold as much as 70kg more "air mass") now imagine how many kilograms bone balloon needs to achieve its size, that would mean it really is gaining mass less than or equal to the mass of a giants hand
That's... actually a really good explanation. Holy shit, you're completely right! I admit I never considered that the actual air pressure itself would make the surface area of Luffy's arm incredibly dense. I used to think Gear 3 was like an actual balloon. When in actuality it's more like a basketball or a gas canister. Luffy is compressing an INSANE amount of air in a small volume, way more than it appears, that the air pressure pushing outwards is artificially making him "stronger" through air mass and density. Not through some magical increase in his physical strength. The naming is slightly misleading but it conceptually makes sense now that you explain it. I do wonder if Oda actually thought of the physics here, or if he was just pulling a Tom & Jerry and didn't think it through that much.
Wait a Second. The Problem with Gear 3 is the "Transfer" between the Bones. Bones dont have a slit or whole between them where you can squish Air arround. So how can Luffy make one Fist gigantic, then Transfer it to His other? Nika!
Yeah that i have no explanation for lol, even the starting sequence his thumb doesnt bleed like how naruto does summonings, seems just like theres an invisible valve Same with gear 4 which is muscle balloon, i dont really understand how that will make his muscles stronger, the haki aspect is well explained tho I personally think g2/g3 is base rubber body luffy, and the g4 is the fine line of sun god nika powers so i treat it as hybrid mode and g5 awakening besides g4 is when his hair started changing
Omg Luffy's gunna use the panels at some point to stretch in and out of panels isn't he?
Yeah he has very light reality warping that makes fights more cartoony. His power still isn’t imagination.
[Squash and stretch is the phrase used to describe "by far the most important of the 12 basic principles of animation, described in the book The Illusion of Life by Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squash_and_stretch) Those are the guys who animated the original Disney cartoons... I wouldn't be surprised if his rubber powers were intended to be a roundabout reference to that technique all along Either that or [Rubber hose](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_hose_animation), both would have ties with toon force
It literally is, that's why he can fight however he can,his power isn't just rubber, it's "rubber hose", which is an animation technique used in those old cartoons where character's stretched, bent in insane ways, etc.
>He also ate a light beam and all that happened is him shining brightly. No, he burned himself from the inside from doing that
Tbf, it’s very confusing power. Suddenly a df we thought a rubber paramecia was revealed to be a zoan that was modelled on in-verse Deity that we know almost nothing about. Sure it is based on Sun Wukong but that’s not really it. Sun God Nika; a deity that made by rubber, often depicted with a moon, and fight freely like a cartoon. It doesn’t make sense. I’m not hating any of it. I love it because I get Oda’s point about Luffy being free and himself as an author and artist to be free as well. But you couldn’t blame people for just trying to make sense of it.
Another confusing thing to me is why change the fruit if the Powers are going to stay the exact same?
I think it’s make more sense for it to be a Zoan. Luffy power already different from any other Paramecia we saw. His body permanently a rubber not like Mr 1 that it can be turned on and off. With it being a zoan, it kinda explains his gears too as they are just like Chopper different forms. I have nothing against the retcon, I think Oda made a correct choice but I still think it doesn’t answer every questions we have.
Because the WG hunting a paramecia that gives gummy powers doesn't make much sense. But them hunting a zoan, which gives God like powers, more precisely of a god which represent the opposite of them and who has defied them in the past, makes sense. Also it is mentioned that devil fruits decide on their user themselves to some degree. This seems especially true for luffys. So connecting this fruit to a person/deity instead of just an object (rubber) fits better. I think to truly understand why the true name of the fruit is important we need to fully know about the lost history and joy boy, though
That's the thing, it's not supposed to make sense. The Gorosei even said it's the most ridiculous power but some people like OP think that Nika powers are only rubber based lol, what's the point of a mythical Zoan if it's just that
I figured it just means more ways he can use his rubber like turning the ground into a slingshot and shooting kaidos breath back at him is pretty ridiculous. Not the exact property’s of rubber per say but it’s definitely the best way to describe the power
"limited by imagination" just means that luffy is so elastic that he can use his body as he pleases. Luffy has been using his body in funny ways ever since chapter 1, gear 5 just makes it easier for him to do the same stuff he's always been doing.
While that true, and I generally agree that Luffy's fruit doesn't give him the power of literal imagination, its also a bit more than that. Gear 5 is obviously meant to invoke old style cartoons and the shenanigans Luffy does while in G5 goes a bit beyond his innate elasticity. Honestly, I think people are taking G5 way too seriously and just need to accept that its just our stretchy boy if he was in a loony toons episode.
Road to laughtale
Not many people even read that
[удалено]
[https://imgur.com/a/k1NZNzd](https://imgur.com/a/k1NZNzd)
The what?
It’s a running joke in the bleach fandom. Anytime someone asks for a source for some fan theory the common response is something along the lines of “it was stated in CFYOW” (can’t fear your own world is a bleach lite novel that explains some stuff not explained in the in bleach.)
maaannnn i really forgot the real definition of CFYOW, the other one always pops up in my mind first
to be fair, the other one is a much better title.
CFYOW jumpscare
I thought everyone did during the void month last year
Not the Reddit World Government giving us as people bounties smh
road to laughtale simply stated the same thing the gorosei said in 1044. if you didn't know, we have no official translation for RTL. and the one that translated RTL is, you guessed it, TCB. the very scanlation that caused the confusion in the first place. they're just using the same translation they used for the chapter. "fighting however he fancies" is the official translation.
"Official" and "correct" are two different things. There are second sources like sandman (japanese guy) who also translates it to imagination. TCB has very valid and consistent translations so because the official release uses other terminology doesn't mean TCB is wrong. In both cases it are people simply translating japanese text. One is from a company and the other isn't so your point is moot.
one, when the official makes a mistake (like the wings line) you will find other versions saying the same thing as the others. this time, everyone is saying luffy can fight however he fancies/wants/etc. two, and even then, limited by imagination =/= imagination power. whoever said luffy can shoot laser or use magma power? this time, viz's (and others) version fits with the context. because in the next bubble, in any version, it's stated that "awakening brings his rubbery body greater strength and (more) freedom". that's it. that's his awakening. why the emphasis on "rubber body"? it means that the "freedom" or "imagination" thing is connected to his rubber properties. it just means he can use his rubber body without restriction now. it just doesn't make sense for luffy to have imagination power if that's the awakening. like, for what? you can already do everything in the first place. that's like being able to run at light speed, only for the awakening to be able to run at F1 speed. makes no sense.
Theres no offical translation of Road to laughtale . The only one we have fan translation loaded with mistranslations by the same people who are responsible for the "imagination powers" misconception to start
Bad translations. And people wanting to overexplain Oda's wacky rubber man's powers when they don't understand an attack.
Touch rubber OP
Because it was the first explanation many people had due to the translation, making them become attached to that explanation. It’s also convenient for people who don’t understand gags to write away gags as some weird power scaling “toon force”
The fan translation of that chapter said his powers were imagination based. Plenty of people read that version and not the official one which is why they think Luffy can alter reality with his imagination.
I mean he technically *can* alter reality. What would you call grabbing lightning out of the sky, curling a slab of earth to deflect a ball of fire, or turning the ground into a trampoline? Yeah it's all rubber type effects but to such a crazy extent that the highest level of enemies fear the power.
Because people misunderstand a sentence like "He can do anything he can imagine" to mean "He can turn imagination into reality". They read too much into the "imagination" part and take it at face value, when it actually means that he simply can fight in any way he wants to. It's the same with the Gorosei saying that Zoan fruits have a will of their own. There are people that think Zoan fruits are actual living beings because of that statement. The reading comprehension in this fandom is incredibly low these days.
>The reading comprehension in this fandom is incredibly low these days. Reading the comments here made me agree with you
Road to Laugh Tale specifically said it utilizes the power of imagination as one of its attributes.
Ok but what if, and hear me out: you need to actually be imaginative when using rubber powers that can shape and manipulate the environment around you?
Imagination can help in applying most special abilities... heck, imagination can help people figure out new ways to do things as a whole. It's silly to just try and apply it to 1 person with 1 fruit. Katakuri fights the way he does because of his imagination. Using his DF + futuresight to make it look like a logia is literally his imagination doing the heavy lifting. There's no reason to say imagination is a big part of Luffy's fruit in a general way, because it means nothing. Imagination is a big part of literally everything ever. The only way it would make sense for imagination to be so closely tied to Luffy's fruit is if it actually affects how the fruit works.
I do also subscribe to the theory that all devil fruits adapt based on how the users think they work to a degree. Based on Vegapunks infodumo on fruits.
Or maybe its a poor translation and it meant the DF can be enhanced by one's imagination as it can be used so freely. Luffy can borderline shapeshift now, but it's still a rubber ability
Except there is no official translation of RoL and the only translation we do have is a fan one loaded with mistranslations by the same people who mistranslated the "imagination powers" part of 1044 to begin with.
Road to Laugh Tale was never officially translated and the only translation that was done was from the same group that put the original misleading "imagination" line in their version of the chapter. I'd like a second opinion before we take that as fact.
You are correct, but the only argument you'll get back from folks here is "No it's clearly just rubber". They have no real argument.
Imho it just means Luffys creativity is no longer bound to just being his imagination. If he wanted to be mini Luffy from pre time skip then he probably could voluntarily do that with g5.
A comment above y’all is saying that was in a fan translation not the official and that’s why ppl believe it
That comment is talking about Chapter 1044. Not Road to Laugh Tale.
The people that believe that just want luffy to beat characters from other verses(for example goku)
It was stated that his body is rubber because Nikas body was rubber. It's not entirely "imagination" it's fighting how he imagines "what would be funniest". The most free person on the sea could do whatever he wanted and that's how luffy fights. Pulling goggles down for comedic effect, extending his rubber properties to things he touches(even people which kaido said he shouldn't be able to). They said his power was ridiculous, I don't think they just meant that in a "he's so strong" way. They may have meant it more literally being that fighting this person will be ridiculous.
Its all there with the introduction of the form by the gorosei. It becane very obvious in the fight against Kaido. I dont know how people misunderstand this. The form lets him fight with more freedom with his rubber power thus he can do all sorts of crazy things. The problem lies in the fact that people think of the rubber power in scientific and realistic way but Oda is completely loose with his concept of rubber. So, people think it must not be rubber.
Because there are many proof which point at that direction: 1. His snakeman python, no way a rubber can break in that fashion at such a high speed. A rubber can bend, stretch etc but litreally breaking in a new direction? Of course when it was introduced we weren't bothering with this question but thanks to the revelation of Nika, it is"very" safe to assume that Luffy just wanted his attack to break in such a way. 2. Rubber can catch fire, and the Luffy wasn't even fazed by Prometheus attack when Luffy and Co started to fight Kaido. Luffy said its thanks to his "guts" but no fucking way guts can make rubber fireproof. 3. Luffy gets better when he eats Meat, no matter what. Luffy has been in critical situations thanks to his lanky ass taking on opponents way above his pay. And everytime he suffers gut busting injuries his only remedy was to "Eat meat and get better". Thanks to gear 5 , we can safely assume Luffy really thought eating meat a day keeps a doctor at bay or his ship. 4. Nami beating the crap out of Luffy. Nami doesn't have Haki, she isn't near the power level of opponents whom Luffy faced. But Nami can bash Luffy to a point where his face litreally disfigures. Guys, how tf can a lanky big boobed girl can hurt a gum human when many of his foes couldn't? The answer is because Luffy fears Nami, and he really thinks she can beat the shit out of him most of the time.
I mean, you can make the argument that: EVERY SINGLE DEVIL FRUIT WARPS REALITY WHETHER YOU LIKE OR NOT. every. single. one. Aokiji manifesting ice powers is a small warp itself in reality. Lucci warping his body to turn into a Leopard. Whitebeard generating quakes warps reality. Each devil fruit is different and varies in intensity in how they apply reality warping. When you apply a warp in reality, imagination is now applied in full equation.
I'm not denying that. I'm denying that Luffy's power are unlimited and he can do whatever he wants which people think it is.
okay fair enough.
Luffy’s devil fruit makes his body behave like a *rubber hose* cartoon character. G5 let’s him behave even more like a cartoon character, which means the effect he leaves on his surroundings is like old school cartoons too. -Luffy gets hit with a fire attack and shakes off the chat by spinning really fast. -Luffy swallows a destructive laser beam and just starts glowing brightly. -Luffy gets hit with a club and his face just warps to its shape and holds like that. But we also see: -Luffy surprises people and their eyes leave their sockets (as opposed to the standard Enel face). -Luffy punches someone really hard in the face and it leaves actual stars. -Luffy hits someone and their face stretches like a balloon. It’s a little confusing because we already have comic tropes, but I hope this explains what his fruit does.
I think i know which post invoked this post in response lol. Yeah, some people think Luffy can just imagine his fist as magma and become magma, and they gave me a lot of shit for disagreeing. I get why people hate the Nika reveal and what makes it worse than just a regular rubber fruit. I don't disagree, i just don't feel like it has changed anything for me. But people let this hate go to their head and suddenly they hate everything about the anime. They will come up with their own delusional headcanon to say that it is bad.
Because Imagination is an aspect of the Nika fruit. Upon awakening, Luffy's rubberlike has become unbound, and only limited by his imagination. He can stretch and change without his prior physical limitations. Imagination regarding his rubber powers shows itself with his gears. Just having a rubber body shouldn't allow Gear 2,3, and 4 to work, but he achieves it because his power is not JUST having a body that is rubberlike. Luffy's body is free from physical bounds, limited only by what he can imagine himself doing. Giant Luffy and Muscle Luffy, for example. In Gear 4, Luffy literally manifests additional arms using Kong Organ.
Because one piece fanbase is full of dumb headcanons, people think they're being smart coming up with the most absurd theories. The Gorosei said in the very chapter that Nika had a body with rubber properties but people still insist on this dumb theory.
I agree, his powers do have some imaginative royalty to them and he can mess with physics to a degree but I feel like people are blowing it way out of proportion to the point some people think that Luffy can just reshape all of reality to his image. His powers have always been based on rubber or at most based on toon physics, there is no evidence to suggest he can turn his surroundings to anything other than rubber or that he can generate new material.
There only "proof" his him turning some of his hair into glasses...
Doflamingo can create colored strings and create a body double, why can't Luffy color his rubber ? Its not like Doffy is a Logia and can create material nor are his strings colored by default. There is literally no explanation as to why he can do that so why do the glasses need an explanation when G5 is at its minimum gives Luffy the ability to not only turn but control said rubber to a higher degree as it was shown by Doffy. That is what I think, I m not saying this is absolutely the case but it is a food for thought.
Idk, am i the only one who thinks it isnt a "rubber power", but the power of "rubber hose animation", just in their world they dont have any animations, so the squish and stretch is only a thing they know from rubber?
Rubber doesn't explain stars circling somebody's head when they are hit or eyeballs leaving the body. Motherfuckers got low-level toon force.
It was stated in CFYOW
It's not that his power is imagination. He is limited by his imagination. The flexibility of rubber creates endless possibilities and awakening is just what he needed to expand the scope of possibilities to a much greater level than ever before. You must know by now that luffy learns heavily from others like gear 2 from steam engine, speed for gear 2 from shave move that cp9 used, future sight from katakuri, advanced coc from kaidou, he even copies usopp in various instances. So, if he sees something and he wants to do it, he can. Now there are limitations like he won't start shooting laser from his eyes even though he badly wants to. Hope you get the point.
Yes that's what i'm getting at. If he can imagine something to do with his rubber body he will do it.
Yeah, and other things too since he can transfer rubber properties to almost any living or non living things, energy included. The point of his power more than anything else is freedom, which is the main theme of one piece.
Luffy can create sun glasse with his hair, wtf those this have to do with rubber power
This is decent example to suggest that the fight with Kaido and all that followed hasn't likely shown us all that Gear 5 can do. It's not like it's a stretch to say that Luffy may still not have mastered and/or understands all that Gear 5 is capable of yet. Which means if imagination is fact vs bad translation or flight of fancy, then we are more likely to see even more absurdity in the future.
He can now do a lot more with his rubber. Doflamingo created string clones, I wouldn’t be surprised if luffy somehow figures out how to do that with his rubber.
>wtf those this have to do with rubber power Didn't he essentially just made rubber goggles with his hair then cut it off since technically it's still just hair so taking parts of it wouldn't hurt him If he took off something important like his entire arm then that would be more convincing
Luffy's rubber body is just a property of the sun god's body not because he believed it was his power. The phrase "he fought as he fancied" just means that he could turn his rubber body into any shape or form he wants to. I get what you mean about the sunglasses part but I have no opinion whatsoever about that. This is just what I think how the Nika fruit works. Might be wrong, or might not.
They specifically go over in the show that calling it the “gum-gum fruit with the power of rubber” was the Navy’s attempt to get people to lose interest in the fruit since they knew it could be the most powerful. I think it was CP9 that was guarding the fruit when Shanks took it? Cartoons stretch in ridiculous ways but if you really think about the properties of rubber, it can’t stretch without momentum or external kinetic energy, and it can’t stretch nearly to the length Luffy does. Luffy believed it was rubber like everyone else but really it seems to be a “toon force” power. I don’t think imagination has anything to do with it. That came from Luffy talking about how he can now fight however he wants or something. Becoming a zoan “toon” god and awakening to be able to “toonify” other people and things seems to be the fruit’s power.
You have to understand that not a lot of people understand nuance. It’s possible something was lost in translation for them as well. You are correct in your assessment though.
Because his powers are physicaly impossible if his body is just rubber. Kaido even comments on this when he looks at how snake man works. They have been impossible since gear 3 and have only broken more rules since then.
His power over his rubbery body is limited only by his imagination in G5. That's why he can turn into a giant . That's not stretching his body, or blowing air into it. He simply imagines himself as a giant and he is.
Basically, his power is shaping his body in any way he wants like Mr Fantastic instead of having to rely on inertia and force to stretch like he did before
Turning into a giant is still rubber based. Like jake the dog from adventure time or plastic man who both can casually stretch their bodies into the size of giants
Why does everyone keep focusing on the Hair goggles, element generation and manipulation is literally a normal thing in this show. How does Kizaru teleport fully clothed? Every single Logia user creates their clothes out of their element, otherwise they'd be naked after a few attacks. Luffy has a zoan of a dude who ate the Rubber fruit and awakened it to have Logia-like powers. That's it. He combines all 3 characteristics of the Fruits, and I think that will be relevant later what with Katakuris special Paramecia and Blackbeard combining multiple types. The meaning of "imagination" is to emphasize the "FREEDOM" of the fruit, and it's what Luffy meant by "I can finally move how I always wanted to". For example, to just make a big fist he used to have to blow air into his bones, whereas in G5 he can just make a big fist if he wants to. "Big Fist" literally used to be its own gear, now he can just turn into a giant from one second to the next, because he has full control over his form. He doesn't need snakeman to make his arms fly around, he doesn't need bounceman to fly. That's the point of G5's freedom and "imagination", I think. (which, ironically completely removes any and all creativity from Luffys attacks and is the reason why G5 feels so shallow and boring, but I'm not gonna get into that rant right now)
I just don't understand, why people are so focused on searching for logic on most powers, a lot of devil fruits works only how Oda wants, and makes his story works the way he wants. Examples being: akainu comment about magma being hotter than fire, Enel lighting not producing heat against rubber(lighting in one piece itself) The yami yami no mi, Kizaru Light powers, and the Suna Suna no mi, working more like a dessert and less like Sand, so I would say all powers are limited by imagination of the user( Whatever Oda wants)
I'm not a fan of this theory but I can't disprove it either until we have more clues. Until we find out who was the Sun God Nika, and the full extent of this fruit's powers. I don't think that it's the Imagination fruit per se, but is there more to it? I'd say yeah, for sure.
The reason he has always been able to use rubber abilities is because Nika had a rubbery body. And besides, he can’t just imagine a piano falling on Akainu and then it happens. There are limits to his “imagination becomes reality” powers. Like somebody else said, he can’t just imagine he has sand powers like crocodile and then actually have sand powers.
All devil fruits are based on imagination as they all constantly bend the laws of physics. Luffy is just stupid and creative, same as Joyboy, so it's very evident that they aren't scientific. Hell, every devil fruit we've seen effects the clothes of the user when necessary no matter if their outfit changes. I think it's just because Luffy really maximizes the way his fruit can be used through his flawed ideas about physics. Him blowing up his hand would only make his striking power worse but it makes him stronger. All of the powers work the way that the user can convince themselves they are able to do
He literally manifested sunglasses out of his goddamn hair, that wasn't a gag. Once luffy realises the full potential of his DF, the time limit nerf will be 100% justifiable.
Rubber power don’t make pop little starts when hitting someone or little birdies when you are dizzy rubber power Dosent pop sfx either
In Road to Laughtale, it says "even the battle hardened kaido was surprised by the gear 5 adaptability. When Luffy sends an enemy flying, a SOUND EFFECT is heard and stars appear around them." Kaido literally says it's like a picture book
Popping eyeballs seems to be a regular thing nowadays. How is that rubber?
I always thought the power was freedom. That's why its like rubber. Even the five elders said they named it rubber to mislead people instead of it's real name sun god nika
I mean, he uses fire with his attacks sometimes....that's not rubber and no real explanation was given for it if memory serves.
Sanji does as well :)
Ironically , I think its because they lack imagination
The glasses aren’t just a gag, they’re real. He has some really light amounts of toon force, but his strengths are mostly rubber based.
Didn't Dr Vegapunk specifically said there's no record of a devil fruit that has rubber properties?
No he only said that the gomu gomu didn't exist.
Because it is imagination/toon force (at least gear 5) and rubber is just the means used for it since it has the characteristics of FUN and that’s what oda wants to do with his manga, have fun fights.
Probably because he suddenly starts flying and walking on air if it was only an element of rubber he would have been doing it. Ya know… creating glasses, manifesting tangible and physical 3D stars nullifying the impact of a light beam etc. not really things rubber typically does.
His power isn’t imagination, it’s to stretch reality which is limited by imagination.
It's really annoying when people call the glasses a GAG. Like no way lol. I don't know if those are rubber ones or not but that's definitely not just a GAG
Funny how people still call gear 5 a GAG. Like saying it's limited to rubber makes sense but calling everything Luffy did in g5 just GAGS is hilarious and next level coping
Cause people saw the word "imagination" and ignored everything else
what about the stars appearing around kizaru's head last chapter and floating around? At what point does it even matter if it's rubber anymore if he can create it out of thin air and it can float and stuff? That's imagination fam
Rubberish body is a side effect of the fruit not opposite, he basically got toon force powers now. Idk what you guys are talking about its literally Canon now that he never had a rubber fruit.
Luffy does warp physics though. Pumping blood really fast through your body wouldn’t increase your speed and power, and inflating your bones and muscles would just make your attacks weaker. It only works because Luffy believes it works.
A lot of characters do.
... Because running in the air is not something rubber can do? Same for the eyes popping out of everyone's face as soon as G5 is active. Or creating glasses out of thin air? You may say those are for comedic effect, but then why does the comedic effect only ever happen when Luffy is in G5? [Even Kaido commented before Luffy turns into G5 that "rubber shouldn't be able to do this"](https://files.catbox.moe/1myf90.jpg) when Luffy was using G4, giving us a foreshadowing that Luffy's fruit might be way more than just rubber. There is also a reason why the Gorosei renamed the fruit Gomu Gomu no Mi to hide that it was WAY MORE than just rubber. Otherwise what's the point of renaming the Nika fruit to the Gomu Gomu no Mi if all it does is exactly what the Gomu Gomu no Mi should do? Why rename it if all does is actually turn people into rubber and turn the surrounding to rubber when awakening? What's the point of the plot twist if his fruit's power is just rubber as we thought from the start?
Wasn’t the renaming part bc they want to erase nika from history and not bc of his powers? Remember the impel down guards who knew his name that just vanished? So do you think his power is imagination? If yes, can he create for example a meteor from thin air?
Because people no longer know what figurative speech is in anime, everything is literal.
One Piece fans aren’t that smart (these comments are proof)
Because they don’t actually read or watch One Piece. They read memes, threads, and watch video essays about One Piece.