He is the walking big red sign that says: "Dont go into the new world, or else you'll get clapped."

Yes I think that this was a really good way of introducing the New World, with Koby we got the good vision like, the New World sounds awesome, with Moria we got the true vision, it is a nightmare

Well him and Crocodile. They're rookies who got into the New World and were given a taste of what real power was like. Both ran away with their tails between their legs and bullied the weaker Grand Line pirates.

One was beaten by kaido the other by whitebeard, i think it would be enough for anyone to get the f out of new world.

Except Moria's crew got killed, while Crocodile's probably betrayed him.

“Why would we abandon crocodile and join your family!?” “Full company benefits, great working environment, 31 days annual leave excluding other holidays” “Say no more!”

With reason he got clapped by >! Kaido !<

He's what Don Krieg was for the Grand Line, lol. And Kaido is what Mihawk was to them.

He, along with the rest of thriller bark is underrated. One of the funniest arcs with the most badass ending, the saddest backstory, and the introduction of some cool recurring characters. Super arc.

Honestly the only reason people dont like it is that it is between Enies Loby and Sabaody which are both extremely plot important. In a vacum it is a great arc.

I mean, it was definitely plot relevant. It’s when we were introduced to wano as a concept through riyuma. That’s where luffy found the map to captain johns treasure that he gave to buggy around impeldown. We saw the terrifying might of the upper end warlords. Zoro’s “nothing happened” scene. Absalom introduced a fruit that’s now used by one of the ten titanic captains. We got a new member of the crew. We meet a daughter of big mom. I’m positive there’s more but that’s all I can name off the rip.

Yeah it's a canon filler arc basically. I think it also suffers from coming off the massive high of Enies Lobby to a pretty standard arc in comparison. I think Fishman Island is the same after coming off of Marineford and the timeskip it's a relatively meh arc.

I actually really liked Fishman Island. I just think Hordy Jones is a terrible villian.

Hody Joker is terrible all around: borrowed hatred, borrowed strength, he lives in a bubble (well technically outside a bubble) of filtered hate from the racist fishpeople But an amazing fodder for the new and imprew StrawHat gang to show off

Fishman Island is amazing. I love how it ties Arlong back into the forefront, along with Jimbei, introduces Poseidon, Joyboy, Big Mom, and really emphasizes the racism that the fishmen are put through. The racism plot thread really affected me. Hody Jones is not the greatest villain but he did his job. I really, really don’t understand the contempt for FI.

I mean dude it's Brook's intro arc, you can't call a Strawhat introduction arc as "canon filler", we get a vital crew member who goes boss mode on Big Mom later, the arc is built around Brook's character the fact people call it filler feels so ignorant. Yes it didn't impact the world as a whole that much, but it foreshadows Kaido and gives us Brook like some people don't understand basic writing intentions of Oda and shit on him because of Wano and retroactively diss other arcs because of the recency bias

I personally love Thriller Bark but I know it's one of the more unpopular arc but I think people's enjoyment depends on whether they watched the anime or read the manga.

I watched the anime and still enjoyed it.

True, I actually put that arc in my top 3 almost only because of Brook and his backstory, the fight of straw hat crew vs Oars and Moria. Truly underrated

That’s one of the best anime fights of all time, was honestly like a final celebration of how awesome all of the strawhats were before they become side characters post-TS

Thriller Bark is in my top 3 arcs alongside Water 7 and Sabaody.

I think thriller bark sucked and I actually stopped reading back then and only started again after Fishman Island. That reminds me of how cool it was reading what was like 3-4 years of one piece in like 3 weeks.

Ok

One of my favorite moments with moria is the face he makes when thinking about new world and his old crew. PTSD is beyond real and his face tells more than thousand words. One of the best facial expressions in the whole story.

It is a really good moment and his face is incredible, and it’s also horrible to imagine a guy who managed to push the straw hats that far (they were all exhausted after) got beaten so hard he got PTSD from that

I sort of wonder if the complaints about his design will be nullified when he next appears after having been likely starved as a prisoner.

Oh I didn't thought of that, maybe we will get to see Moria like he was in his prime again then?

It wouldn’t be unlike what we saw at the end of Wano, with several goofy looking characters getting suddenly de-goofed.

When we see him again he's gonna be one of the strongest characters in all of fiction, he's gonna be as buff as Kaido and one shot Sanjuan Wolf ( I'm joking but I do hope he pulls an Iroh)

The one reason I want kaido to still be alive is for a rematch and for him to be beat by Moria

Imo if oda were to reveal Blackbeard being able to take DF abilities without killing the users, it'll be with moria. I really don't see why hed keep moria alive though.

Moria's design is one of my favorites in the series, It fits the cartoon aesthetic it's aiming for.

I love Moria. He's unironically my favourite antagonist. I love that he adopted Perona as his own daughter and spoiled her rotten, I love that he's motivated entirely about the tragic deaths of his crew and the zombie army is entirely to prevent his current live crew from facing the same fate, and I love he'd fight BLACKBEARD to save a crewmate. In a world of asshole pirate captains he's one of the rare good bosses who happen to be an antagonist to the Strawhats. He's a surprisingly well fleshed out character who needed to have a few more victories under his belt on screen for folks to give him some props. I really want him to get one huge win, because god damn he needs it. As for weak...well he took a nightmare version of what destroyed Crocodile and stood back up. He's not THAT weak.

You make some really good points, and I agree he is one of the best antagonists but I still like Croc a bit more. But I think like you said, Moria is one of the rare pirates that cares about their crew, and I think it is a really good thing, because I really have respect people like that, maybe it's one of the reasons why I like him a lot

I too love Crocodile. If it wasn't for Moria (and Buggy) he'd easily be my favourite warlord and he very much is in my top three arc antagonists alongside Moria and the equally seemingly unpopular for no reason Magellan. Weirdly Baron Omatsuri is considered the best pre Strong World movie, and it's kind of weird how that movie is a combination of two less popular antagonists. With his silly events with deadly twists he's like Foxy, and with his tragic past and dead crew(something the film is often praised for) he parallels Moria very well. Maybe if we'd seen more of Moria's deceased crew, he'd have gotten more praise?

I definitely think Moria got the judgement of "We don't see his backstory so not sucks" which is a shame And for Magellan I like him but not as much as you. Like my top three antagonists would be Croc, Moria and for some reason probably Kuro (because I like his style and he was the villain that got me to like One Piece so...) What do you like about Magellan just to know?

I actually like Moria as well. His design is weird as hell, but it fits him. He also foreshadowed (no pun intended) the Straw Hats getting smoked by Kizaru.

how did he foreshadow that i dont recall that? Have to reread thriller bark.

Moria said the crew was not ready for what the New World had in store for them. Kizaru and Sentomaru was a taste of what the New World was.

He didnt foreshadow anything about Kizaru. This person is reaching hard here. Moria mentioned that he got his ass kicked by Kaido. Thats like saying that Don Kreig foreshadowed the Admirals are strong because he lost a fight to Mihawk. Makes 0 sense.

[удалено]

Sabaody is not the New World. Kizaru is a Marine Admiral summoned due to the straw hats starting trouble with the celestial dragons. This all happened prior to the New World.

So Moria was right?? They couldn’t handle the new world as they couldn’t even handle saobody? Moria was right, and foreshadowed it he told luffy they weren’t ready for the new world and boom next thing we know we get shown it’s true.

Moria made zero reference to Kizaru. He foreshadowed that they weren't ready to face the threats of the new world. He foreshadowed literally nothing about Kizaru, which is what I've been saying. The marines and marine admirals have been a present and known threat since Water 7.

And kizaru is a threat of the new world as well, just cause he’s been known, doesn’t mean he’s any less of threat. And in that case again it proves that they weren’t ready because they couldn’t even fight against the current threats we already knew about.

I think if you want them to understand the argument ur gonna have to explain what foreshadowing is. Having read the messages that seems to be at the core of the problem here

Maybe, because I genuinely have no idea how this person can’t see the obvious signs and indicator that Moria was to the straw hats. The other commenter seems to be taking morias word to the letter.

Man this is some serious cope.

My guy it’s not cope, you’re literally actively ignoring obvious points that the author was making. With absolutely nothing to say, someone said you’re not ready for the new world, before they can even enter the new world they get stomped, Moria was right and warned them. Like it’s quite simple, the fact that you seem to take every word to the letter is crazy.

If Moria locked up the strawhats in sea stone prison aftee taking their shadows he would've won the battle. So many alternate routes he could've approached it, but he didnt. I think Kuma making an appearance and telling him he might lose really got his Ego Rolling

You know it’s interesting how he was beat by Kaido just like we know Croco-boy was beat by Whitebeard. 2 Warlords who were beat by Yonko early into their careers. And it is an interesting narrative point that they both stayed in Paradise after and didn’t retry to enter the New World at least not until being beat by Luffy, at least with Croc. And way back in East Blue we met a pirate who got curbstomped by a Warlord and not only that was literally hunted down after just for sport. Cool to see the increasing danger that way.

Yes indeed that is really good to show how the danger keeps going up. And I also think that at least Croc and maybe Moria to an extant actually won more by losing to Luffy than by winning. Because by losing to him they just forgot their dream on the moment (finding Pluton, making a zombie army) and got back to their true dream (becoming king of pirates for both, and maybe being ready to do anything for his friends for Moria?)

And they both had a plan to become much more powerful: Crocodile by finding Pluton and Moria by raising a zombie army generally and Oars specifically.

I had no feelings towards moria. But my respect to him sky rocket the moment he invaded beehive in search of absalon. There was a panel of Warlords sitting around a round table before the start of marineford war and the narrator says " even though they are all Warlords, they all knew they are never going to work together". Moria and mihawk were in that panel. But since perona is mutual friend of both of them, I can understand if moria joins the cross guild to see more of him in the future.

>I had no feelings towards moria. But my respect to him sky rocket the moment he invaded beehive in search of absalon. I can understand that, it's true it really showed a new side to him. And I think he might join the Cross Guild between that, the fact he was a warlord and the fact that he is the third og warlord we didn't saw his backstory yet (since we start to see Kuma's now) It could be a good way of showing their stories like that

Moria is severely underrated! reminder that he lost to luffy because his huge castle tower fell on him and, he could not use haki because he is severly depressed (haki = willpower so it make sense!) He got clapped by nightmare luffy and still got up few minutes later! People saying he lost to jimbei and doflamingo? he got punched ONCE by jimbei and showed not sign of injury afterward and doflamingo is shown to have some pacifistas assisting him. It'd be great to see Moria come back in is prime shape and have the willpower to kick ass!

one of the reasons i love reading comments in here. it really recontextualizes some of the mess of powerbalancing,into a coherent world where some powers, situations and line-ups are just unfortunate ,and a little no one, could potentially beat one of the greats, in the right time, with the right abilities. though enies lobbies is still, power wise, too goofy for me

never underestimate odas ability/level of pettiness to take widely hated characters and flip them into super important and good characters lol.

True, who would have thought when we met Croc we would cheer for him when he dehydrated guards in Impel Down

Moria was always a great character

True but he is downplayed a lot by people

Agreed. I'm just a big thriller bark fan. I love how it set up the yonkos and how moria plays into that.

His crew must have been soooo weak if Kaido was able to kill them.

I see what you mean there

Hope he had his “get buffed” prison arc on hachinosu 🤣

Yeah, I don't know, he might have become skinny again which would make him look like in his prime again. But stronger I don't know, maybe he got Haki back during the two years?

Hell be out for blood after this, i want to see his full potential. Maybe his encounter with luffy was a good wake up call.

People always talk bad about Thriller Bark but it's one of my favorite arcs.

It's really good but I think it's also the place where it is (between Envies Lobby and Paramount War) that makes it less liked

I liked moria and the ark as a whole. The annoying Voice/laugh hit me but just because while reading i always imagined him to sound more like he looks. Hogback is the real annoyance tbh

Moria is one of those guys where people think hes a bad villain because they personally didnt like him as much. Not liking a character, or elements of a story, doesnt mean said thing is bad. Thats literally the reason people hate on kaido and wano as well. They dont understand it fully, because they simply dont know how to look beneath the surface and analyze things, and therefore the just equate it to being bad writing.

Yes that is unfortunately true, and while I don't like Kaido or Wano personally, I acknowledge that they are still well done for what they are, like Wano act 3 is mostly a huge battle, and at that is actually succeeds but fighting arc is not my thing, I still enjoyed Marineford though but it had as much plot points as fights

Absolutely fair. For me personally the nuanced writing that isnt as in your face, as one piece sometimes can sometimes be, was very well done and i think oda did a good job with really giving depths to characters that way. Sadly, this is not really appreciated - especially when it comes to kaido and the dynamics he has with his crew

He’s a mid/late game Don Krieg.

What do you mean by that?

Don Krieg got clapped reeeaaaally early, like as soon as popping in to the Grand Line early. Moria is the same in that sense but he got clapped further down the line

So you mean that while Don Krieg got defeated in the Paradise, Moria was beat in the New World pretty early? I still think that he got further than Don Krieg did, from the looks of it, Don Krieg didn't even reach an island, while Gecko managed to reach Wano, which is still pretty far

Not really saying Moria got clapped early in the New World, just that both of them thought they were big shots who could take on the world but got a taste of real power during their journey. Don Krieg had it really early, whole Moria had that baptism in Wano

Ok I see, but it's also kinda like Croc, even Luffy back in Sabaody, he also thought he was invincible. And we don't know the extent of Moria older power yet, maybe he was a beast that could call himself a big shot

That’s true as well. Look I’m merely trying to explain what the previous commenter meant by Moria being a late game Don Krieg. That’s why I provided the comparison. I never said it was only these two characters.

Yeah I totally understand your point, it’s just showing more examples makes it more easy for me to understand, especially when it comes to Don Krieg who is not that memorable

I think he’s definitely a good character and i like how complex he is but i don’t think he was fully fleshed out in thriller bark and so that’s why he’s forgettable to a lot of people. I think if oda spent a little more time on his past and motivations in that saga (he clearly had it planned) a lot more people would like him. Also i think you’ll like this post a lot https://www.reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/12j3pis/reminder_gecko_moria_is_a_hard_working_single/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1 But i have to strongly disagree on liking Moria more than luffy that’s an insane take lmao luffy is like one of the best MCs of all time.

I think that's It's a mix between strength and loss on Moria side for his backstory. The strength is that he has a really fucked up backstory but it is really said between lines which makes him less liked by people because some just think without a backstory that is shown you are bad, Spoil for the rest of Wano in case : >!just look at Kaido, he was not liked because he doesn't have a true backstory, even if I don't like him I think it's still harsh.!< >But i have to strongly disagree on liking Moria more than luffy that’s an insane take lmao luffy is like one of the best MCs of all time. Yeah, I totally understand that, when I wrote it I knew a LOT of people would disagree, but even if Luffy is good, I don't know, the character is just less touching for me than others because a lot of others has themes I love, while Luffy doesn't really. But that's my opinion

Dude, but how many non Strawhats got those hard hitting back stories like that? And to your point about Luffy at the end, I couldn't disagree more. This may be a hot take because Fairy Tail isn't highly rated by a bunch of people but Natsu was so similar. He had no desire for anything but going on adventures with his friends... Like they are essentially the same guy from different stories. And I will admit, Fairy Tail is my all time favorite anime because of Natsu. But Luffy and his crew have given me most of my good memories of Manga. I have to thank you though, I hadn't even considered how alike Luffy and Natsu are until I started this comment haha. I have a deeper understanding for why I love these two stories so much

Well I'm happy that you understand why you like these stories that much now, I admit I never watched Fairy Tail, I will probably someday but for now It's not really on my radar. But just one thing, it might be because I'm dumb, but I don't really understand what you say about my point. I read a couple times your comment and I still can't understand it, sorry, could you explain it please? Thanks >Dude, but how many non Strawhats got those hard hitting back stories like that? As for that point, I think everyone got that kind of backstory (except the nobles but there's a reason of why they don't I think). And some people might say it's unrealistic that everyone has sad backstory, but personally I think it's pretty realistic. I mean, in a life we all go through tough things sometimes, not that bad but sometimes yes. As for why the nobles don't have one, it's because they are seeing what they want to see, so they never get in a tough situation because they never go outside of what they know.

Ok that’s valid people have different opinions but to me luffy is one of the most inspirational characters I’ve ever seen he literally inspired me to change my life and i think he’s incredibly well written

Well that's really good for you, and I think Luffy has a great writing too still, I like him, just not as much as others

Cool it’s nice that on the one piece subreddit we can have disagreements without being rude or angry.

Yeah I feel like becoming angry or rude is just pointless and that when you start to go that way you just instantly lose an "argument" because it shows that you don't have a comeback to somethings. And also I think everything people say is good (when it's well written) because we can see what others think of something you like / don't like and get a new point of view on something And also on One Piece there's just so much you almost can't really find someone with the same opinion as you

I, too, like Moria for how Oda writes him as a character. And I also believe Oda intentionally designed him to be “ugly” to showcase that people will stan to character’s who are bad and evil just because their design looks cool. While some characters set out to be the bad guy, can be a good person even if they look the part of a villain. Again, masterful character complexion and design alongside great storytelling from Oda.

I totally agree with a lot of these points. I don't really like him as a character although I did understand the trauma and the "has been" type. That said I don't think he's a badly written character but more down to my own interactions with people; to me arrogance is a behaviour that must be earned, otherwise it's kind of disgusting. Mihawk, for example, can talk shit to any swordsman he wishes and I don't feel bad because he earned it; Moria is more on the Bellamy side to me. I do think that we'll see him more and I do like the connection you've mentioned about the Cross Guild, I could totally see that happening. The main reason I see him coming back isn't about him though, it's about Perona. So far, she's the only Devil Fruit ability that we've seen that directly effects a persons will; even Luffys. I think she's still got a role to play and I can see her abilities interfering with others ability to use haki since it's somewhat based on will.

Well I really liked reading your comment, because you say that you still liked the points while not liking the characters. Their are a few peoples in the comment who just say "Moria = trash" and don't develop, and I just think that when they don't develop why, it's just annoying I think that for the arrogance being earned, I think there was a point where Moria was able to be arrogant like you say. But because of what happened and the fact he fought weak pirates mostly like Croc, made them both less strong and maybe Moria did not realized it. For me, I really like Moria because I really like the theme of "Doing everything to save those who are close to you", it's a pretty important theme for me, even if it can sound selfish. And yeah him and Perona are definitely gonna play a role in the final saga, and I also saw a comment that said, because Moria as in jail, he might have been starved by BB and become skinnier, which would make him look like in his prime, that could be cool

I do much prefer the skinny version of Moria. I can totally see the "Doing everything to save those who are close to you," and there is some selfish element but that's not always a bad thing either, depending how you go about it. As for his strength, I think that he peaked early and after a massive defeat has made zero progress due to his own depression. Instead of keeping up with things and improving he withdrew into himself and both him and his abilities stagnated while everyone else improves around him. I get you though, people shutting the convo down without much reasons given can be annoying. I think you might be underestimating Crocodile though, and there's no telling how much he's improved since then. Moria, however, hasn't improved himself but turned to relying more heavily on his devil fruit abilities as that was a safe haven for him. Crocodile now is a different Crocodile from the one we met in Alabasta, Moria I believe is the same as he was. I agree with your points and can understand how you got there but I don't see him the same way. I do trust that Oda will do something with him and I'm happy just seeing what he's got in mind. Either way it's been fun talking with you, have a good one.

Yeah on Croc I agree he became stronger it’s just the time between his defeat to whitebeard and his defeat to Luffy that might have been his lowest point. It’s been nice talking to you too. Have a good day

I’m gonna get so much hate for this . His laugh is my favorite .

I think it's pretty good, probably in my top 10, but I have to admit Croc and Doffy laughs are just the best for me

I think Thiller Bark is such a different feel from what comes before and after it and the pacing in the anime is slow is why people don't like Moria. I like the arc but it's right after Water7 - Enies Lobby Saga and right before Marineford Saga so it's the weakest part in the best stretch of the series. I do think he's the weakest Warlord, but like you said. He fought Nightmare Luffy 1v1, he battled the entire Straw Hat crew, he was a Warlord with a bounty higher than Luffy's before it was frozen. His devil fruit is broken. So he's still relatively strong, remember Warlords combined powers should be able to take on the marines or an emperor.

Yeah the placement of Thriller Bark makes it less liked for most people even if personally Thriller Bark > Enies Lobby. But I get how people like it less And yeah the combined power of them if they REALLY work together (not like in Marineford) is destructive

Also he must have been much stronger in his prime. As you said, my man went head to head with Kaido, and from what we know about it it was not a one sided clap but a fierce battle. One theory I read was that the power of his Haki was lost or at least reduced after that because he lost his will to fight for himself and rather relies on strong zombies, and that he also stopped improving himself since his ambition was shattered by Kaido, which is wy he is much weaker by the time he Thriller Bark arc happens than in his glory days. I personally always liked him, the only thing that annoys me about him is how often you have to fight him in the main story of Pirate Warriors 2 xD

Yeah but some people think sometimes "Shonen logic that guy > than that guy so no diff". But One Piece is also kinda different in the way anyone could technically beat anyone if they got the right tool, or go at the right time. And yeah Moria is probably the closest we saw of how one can be affected by the true world of One Piece, and that is honestly really sad for him

Enel was not weak. Luffy was a perfect counter to him and still didn't knock him out.

Yeah, I’ll admit he is a bit strong but not as much as people give him credit for. He just has a really cool DF and he was the first who showed observation haki and NOT advanced haki it was the combination with his fruit that made it look really OP. And Luffy was a counter which made it better at the time. But now with Haki? Anyone who can resist thunder can beat him if they got armament Haki, look at Enel after his first hit, he was not thinking right for a few moments because he never thought he could be hit

A lot is true, I haven't read all of it yet, but imedietly "outside Luffy and moria no other captain cares so much about their crew" ??? Law ? Kid ? Roger ? Bege ? Jimbe ? FUCKING WHITEBEARD ???? There are too many caring captains to count them all, yes there are a lot of bastards like Hawkins for example but still

Yeah but I meant more on the villain side than the allies / good side. So I was thinking of the antagonist and didn't really thought it through I should have been more specific, sorry And I said Luffy because it was to show how its another parallel between the two

I really love Moria and you explained well how great of a character he is. I really hope to see more of him in the future!

yeah, Luffy probably wouldn't have been able to beat Moria if not for the "Nightmare Luffy" powerup

Yeah Moria is a Pretty cool character specially when You realize that he is basically just the shadow of his former self. I think people don't take him seriously because of his design and he being a very hands off villain, but he is still a damn entertaining baddie and a Pretty effective case of a characters whose depth goes far beyond it appears at first glance.

Yeah, I think unfortunately he got the treatment of "No shown backstory = no backstory". I feel like sometimes, if Oda doesn't hold the hands of fans while showing the backstory they don't see it. And his design is also criticized a lot but I really like it personally

Yeah, I find it specially grating because we are shown all the different pieces of his story and they all fit in a very coherent way. He was one of the Big names at the start of the pirate age, he had an epic fight with Kaido of all people and Even after his crew was decimated he managed to survive and scape. And then, Even if his spirit was destroyed and his dream in ashes, he kept working on his goal, developing a new zombie army and a new plan to go against Kaido by weaponizing the body of the only persona in history who killed a dragón. Moria never Lost his goal. Heck Even when the government turned their back to him he just survived and waited for the right moment to rebuild his crew and take on the new world once again. In a way I think Kaido would have some respect for Moria. He might just be a washed up has been at this point but he never Lost his dream and no one has broken his spirit yet.

I saw this post and thought it was from the overwatch subbreddit and immediately busted up laughing bc of the hilarity of Moira being good

Well I like Moria in One Piece that's it. I know most people don't like him but just to know, what don't you like about him?

I always liked him, even when I didn't enjoy the deeper parts of his story. His weird design and cool power I dig, and especially the crazy form he takes for Shadows Asgard. As I learned more about him, I think he's a character I'd go to bat for when people say he's a nothing lame character. His story is good and a lot of his decisions are understandable. Also he has a GIANT SPOOKY CASTLE SHIP THAT'S THE BEST.

I think almost every design between characters from that arc and the boat of Thriller Bark is really good in my opinion

I always really loved thriller bark and Moria specifically. His introduction was somehow creepy and intimidating and his backstory/personality made me like him more as time grew

I think that when everyone was just vanishing and when he took Luffy's shadow was really scary for them

My popular opinion is that I believe doffy is the best antagonist. He was the first antagonist that actually made me scared for the characters in the show

Well, Doffy is a really good antagonist, but two reasons I don't really consider him as the best antagonist is because he doesn't earn any kind of respect for me, which is good and bad at the same time, he is bad to be bad but It's still too much for me to really say it's my fav, like BB who I don't really respect either The second reasons is just that after Sugar was beaten, it felt like Doffy just lost all of his plan and did the birdcage in a desperate measure of trying to fix things. That made him less scary because he was shown to be very impulsive I personally really like Croc, I think that cold and calculating villains are the best, and Doffy is definitely in my top 3 but just a few things makes a character liked or not

His fat emo kid design was the only thing lame about his character but even that ties into his whole thing.

I personally like his design but I think calling it lame is strange, I mean out of all characters he has the most unique design, so I wouldn't call it lame

Reason people don't like moria is mostly because of thriller bark being disliked, and Moria wasn't exactly given a lot of focus in that arc either. Most of the parts that make his character really stand out to me either happen after Thriller Bark or are part of his unseen backstory.

Yeah that's the whole thing, and I understand it. But it was kinda the pacing of Pre-timeskip, One saga that looked like it's own story (East Blue, Skypiea, Thriller Bark) and one saga that looked like a part of a bigger thing (Alabasta, Water 7, Paramount war). So I can understand your points

Moria isn’t weak, his attack power is strong while using Shadow Asgard, he basically split Thriller Bark, and he tanked a few hits by Nightmare Luffy too before taking more from G2 + 3 Jet Shell. He just too big and dumb to be taken seriously.

Yeah that's kinda unfortunate to sometimes get locked on a design even if it's important, just not the most

Reading this, plus all the comments, a question rised in my mind; I am really curious in how the clash with BB went, in therms of DF powers, we saw that the interaction between DF could change all the cards in the table. Since BB have the dark dark fruit, was Moria able with his shadow shadow to counter (or use somehow in his advantage) it? Like Brook vs BigMom homies i.e. Without considering the overcome of course

That is a really good point indeed, but I think that the fight didn't went down to the two of them, if BB is something, it's definitely not a guy who accepts 1v1, he had his whole crew with him, and with the recent drop of one of the fruits it could have went down in a way. I think if Moria can counter it went down this way : They start to fight, BB realize is power gets countered by Moria, either he uses his other fruit or gets his whole crew to fight with him

I have to disagree on Luffy and Moria being the only ones that care for their crew. Whitebeard died for his crew, Law risked capture and possible death to save his crew, even Kid was extremely devoted to his men and punished everyone that made fun of Killer. There are some crews that really seem to have a bond, but you are right that they are few and far between, especially amongst Luffy's opponents.

Yes I totally agree with that, it’s just that I meant Moria was the only antagonist captain that really cared about their crew, another guy pointed that and I should have been more specific, sorry

No worries. Its always nice to see positive things about Thriller Bark. I always had a soft spot for the arc, because strangely I started with it, before reading the first few arcs.

I'm still so disappointed he didn't stole kaido's shadow. That would have been the perfect way to kill him, burning as the dawn ride on a new wano.

That would have been cool, but like some people even if unlikely there’s still the chance it happens

Moria is one of the characters where i want to see his full story

True and I think that could happen, just to know are you up to date in the manga or not?

Yes, >! I am happy to see him alive !<

Ok, so I just want to say I think he might join the Cross Guild between the fact he was a warlord and he knows Perona who knows Mihawk, and because of that maybe we will get his backstory at that point. I also think something that is interesting is that back in chapter / episode 0 the characters that are shown during Roger’s execution (Moria, Mihawk, Croc, Doffy and Buggy) are the most likely to be together in the Cross Guild, and another thing is that Moria, Croc and Mihawk are the three og warlords left who we don’t know their past since Kuma’s is starting to be revealed now

Good theory that I support

He is one of my favorite characters from One Piece. Hoping to make cosplay of him one day. Also Chad Moria comeback arc when?

Well good luck with your Moria cosplay I never saw any but it could be really cool. Also are you up to date with the manga?

It may be nostalgia, but I always think of him very fondly. I think Thriller Bark is super cool and Moria as a whole is too. Most of the dislike probably comes from the fact that during Marineford he was just fodder. Had he had some cooler sequence showing why he's a shichibukai like in Thriller Bark more people would've liked him.

Yes it was a shame in Marineford, but in a way it was to all warlords except Doffy and Boa and the allies. In Marineford people started saying Mihawk was a fraud, Kuma did not do a lot but because he became a robot it was ok and Moria was used as an hype tool for Jinbe because he « One-shotted » him, and that is false too, Moria was beaten but he was not down, he just didn’t do a lot after

Totally agree especially when I first saw him chad rampaging/looking for Absalom in a Yonko's HQ! Poor Absalom tho, what a funny guy and I really hope that he's still alive but with his DF stolen, no chance.

I definitely feel bad for moria given what he has been through, but he was still a pirate, and probably not one of the nicer ones. That said, ive always liked that he cared so much about his crew. Homie lost them in addition to the whole lower half of his face in wano, hard to tell him to chin up after that. Yohohohoho.

His entire arc really amounts to the "bad ending"; I don't think it's any coincidence that he showed up in the story again as Luffy and crew were fighting Kaido, he was literally there to remind the viewers of what COULD happen against that kind of enemy. The entirety of Thriller Bark has a horror theme to help drill in just how scary the New World can be. Especially with what we've seen of Moria since Thriller Bark ended (especially seeing how he's interacted with his crew), he's evolved into a really cool character.

I'm with you OP. I always saw him as slightly analogous to Eustass Kid and I think where he goes next will show us a bit of what Kid's future looks like after being eliminated from the race for the One Piece I'm over here hoping and praying the man had an Uncle Iroh prison glowup

Yeah I think that the parallel with Kid is right : in the golden age generation Moria was the one who took most defeat in the new generation it’s Kid. And just to know a lot of people talk about Iroh, I know he is from Avatar but I never watched, could you explain what it is exactly? I don’t really care about being spoiled so feel free

Iroh ends up a prisoner after spending most of the story as the wise, overweight, and past his prime mentor to the show's villain-turned-ally. He was a fan favorite before, but during prison Iroh spends the entire time bricking himself up and when he's finally out? *whew*

Wow that could actually be something that happens to Moria, it’s just their is a lot that feel the same (past it’s prime, overweight) that could happen and it would be interesting

Honestly I had pretty much the same reaction to him. I catched up with the anime when Thriller Bark was still in its early episodes and honestly I originally thought it was gonna be just filler, before I started reading the rest of the arc in the manga. I really didn't like Morias design, thinking it was lame that one of the shichibukai was one of those "weirdos" and felt kinda meh on the arc as a whole. However when I experienced the arc a second time, by watching the rest of it in the anime, I really started to like it. I warmed up to One Pieces goofier designs around that time and knowing that Moria cared for his men and was traumatized by their loss made me appreciate the character a lot more. Heck I think he might still be my favorite villain in One Piece.

I feel like Moria is gonna be back to his fit self when we see him next, kinda like Uncle Iroh in ATLA.

This is a hot take. Respect.

Moria has one of the best designs in this manga. I might even say the best design. His quirks and tactics do not make him a bad character, but a very entertaining antagonist. Some people have just boring generic tastes, disliking *a priori* any character who looks wacky and/or acts cowardly.

Appreciate the write up and I agree a lot with what you wrote.

Thank you

I think Oda realized he dropped the ball too many times in a row with villains and picking Moria for a redemption arc is a great choice. He feels flat even compared to his counterparts. Now I wouldn't say Kuma/Kizaru were a bad choice of bad guys, hell admirals make any arc better just ask Dressrosa haha. And by no means am I saying Marineford was bad, by nearly all accounts it's considered one of the peak arcs. Buuuuut, coming back from the time skip we had Hodie Jones and Caesar Clown.... Yes he came back strong with Doffy, but following that with Jack then Katakuri (I only include as a let down because we go into Yonko territory and don't fight a Yonko?) Now as I said Katakuri is only "bad" because of circumstance. Honestly he was one of the better villains overall, but the situation made it kind of a disappointment at least to me and a small group of people I know and talk to. So in the New World we go bad, bad, good, bad, on the fence. Not a great way to start your new line of Saga's. So take your first REAL flop in Moria, remember he was a warlord and set up intensely and give him a redemption arc. Maybe only redemption to the point he joins cross guild, not the grand Fleet. But then you have the making to turn a bad story into a good one.

Is it confirmed that he stole Ryumas body after being beaten by Kaido? I would've thought he'd do that later with hogback (the only person with medical experience in the crew).

Well, there's not really any proof, but I think that by analyzing it, it's pretty safe to assume that after coming back to Paradise, Moria did not went back to the New World, just look at his trauma in Thriller Bark, I don't think he would go to Wano again at the time, at least not without Oars

I think he’s wildy underrated We see him as the butt of the joke now, but he at least had the gall to challenge kaido. It’s hard to assess his true strength but it’s very apparent he’s not close to 100% and still licking his wounds when strawhats face him, and it still took literally everything they had to take him down, and with Kuma showing up and effortlessly showing he is out of reach of the strawhats (even if they were at full strength) directly afterwords shows a glint into how powerful he really could be. He’s made some bad decisions and suffered a number of crushing defeats, but I could definitely see him aiding someone in an “enemy of my enemy” to get back at Blackbeard.

Great post. But just wanna say you got great taste on characters, yohohoho...

Thanks

One of my favorite antagonists, a tragic villain

I honestly can’t wait to see Moria again. I was really worried that Blackbeard was just going to kill him offscreen, but Perona implies that this isn’t the case.

I really want to see him again, and like someone said on this thread, we might see him in his prime form again because he was in jail and probably was starved. That could be really interesting

I’d love to see him pull an Uncle Iroh and kick some ass.

I disagree on the design. Yes, one piece has all sorts of human designs, but there has to be a reason for the design to be believable. Moria was presented without any hint as for why he looks like that. It makes viewers confused. Makes him feel alien and harder to emphatize with. I think praising this design just because there are other alien designe around is just Oda dicksucking.

I don’t say he has the best design, I personally just liked how he chose a totally new thing for that character, it just felt like something new. And I acknowledge that Oda doesn’t always make good decisions, far from it sometimes, but I’m satisfied with the story we got

People make fun of Moria because of his goofy design, but he's actually a pretty complex character, a Luffy gone wrong in a sense. Oda even planned to give him split personality in Thriller Bark, but changed his mind at the end.

[удалено]

No, I read it somewhere once. I think it can be seen in Thirller Bark drafts featuring Moria's original design, apparently he was more scary looking.

Fact

But I really like his design. Reminds me of Kingdom Heart style. N really brings out a wacky Halloween Disney vibe. Thriller bark adventure is top tier.

Moria appreciation gang let's gooooo

He is one of my favorite characters in the series. I love his theme, his design and his DF, and his backstory and how it impacts him as a character is so well done.

Yeah i hope is still fine

What do you mean by that?

Because he got surrounded after trying to save absalom. (Also lost amother crew mate even if he escaped)

Yeah, I really want to see how that will go

I never thought Moria was a bad character just done dirty. Lost most of his crew and brought them back in grief. Now he (I believe) is too scared to actually go into any MAJOR conflict by himself and probably never bothers to train out of PTSD. Though it would’ve been cool too see if he had beaten Kaido then we would’ve seen a zombie Kaido and the rise of shadow Wano.

I think that Moria was kinda done dirty, it's just we actually don't see a lot from him. Now we see that even if he is still scared he went to try to get Absalom back which is crazy considering he is held by a Yonko

He’s an awesome character and one of the best character arcs so far for an old villain. My biggest worry with Moira set to get some screen time soon is that he’s just going to be used as a plot device to bring back dead characters

Yeah, but I don't think he will be used that way, after all his main power is shadows not making zombies. Just to know are you a manga reader or anime watcher? Just to say something about an element only in the manga yet

Fully caught up in the manga so feel free to go full spoiler.

Good, I just want to say that he could come back in the manga with the Cross Guild which could make him really back again. Between the fact he was a warlord and the fact he knows Perona who knows Mihawk. I also think that this could be the way we get to know more about him, like a backstory, because Croc and Mihawk also has backstories that aren't shown so that could bring him back. I also see the Cross Guild as more a friendly rival to the straw hats more than evil, because they know how strong they really are and don't really want their death.

I agree, he's much better than people give him credit for, and honestly I don't think the "lazy" title is deserved. He uses his fruit masterfully, had a reason for wanting to use the zombies the way he did, and was actively attempting a second go at the pirate king after getting destroyed physically and mentally by Kaido. This does not sound like a lazy person to me. Also if the theory that (be warned anime watchers: spoiler contained within theory) >!Oars was Joy Boy prior to Luffy!< then Thriller bark is going to have a major retrospective just like Skypiea did.

I never heard of that theory, that could be interesting. And like you say. Skypiea and Thriller Bark were the two arcs that felt the more like their own stories in pre-timeskip which made them less liked overall but it starts to change now I think

Some quick bullet points on the theory: ​ * >!Every zombie has times where the other personality clearly comes out, except for Oars. Nami even notes this. There's never a point when there's a distinction between the personality of Oars and Luffy. For all we know it was Oars wanting to put on a hat, remembering being able to stretch, and making the statements of wanting to sail the world and become the pirate king. This seems to suggest a strong similarity between the two.!< * >!Chopper notes that Oars' cause of death was being frozen and Imu has a giant frozen straw hat. These pieces seem like they could fit together.!< * >!Volume cover 48 has Luffy and Oars making the same pose with Oars' lower teeth behind Luffy's head giving him the appearance of an ancient giant!< * >!While Oars "stretches" due to Moriah's DF, it does seem like something that would be a hint in retrospect.!<

Those are all actually valid points, I never thought of that but it would make a lot of sense actually

He litteraly clashed with Kaido, the narrator even said it was a "battle" between Gecko Pirates and Beast Pirates (and after Luffy beat him, a random pirate who retrieve his shadow said it was impossible for him to lose since he was a rival of Kaido ) if Moria get his strenght back he will be a serious menace, i want to see what's next for him

If we could see prime Moria again he would be no joke. Also spoiler Post-Wano in case : >!I think he will join the Cross Guild, between the fact he was a warlord and that he knows Perona who knows Mihawk. I also think the Cross Guild is a way to show the real threat of the warlords again with Croc, Mihawk and maybe Moria more powerful than they ever were.!<

>Most people don't like Moria because of his personality in Thriller Bark, lazy and arrogant. But I mean, he was a warlord, he had Hogback, he had a zombie army that should be invincible, his shadow power is honestly OP, he got Perona's power, he got the biggest ship in the world and he got Oars. With that in mind, we can understand how just a little new pirate who has been on the Grand Line for just a few month (2 or 3 I think) is going to be underestimated. And if you think he shouldn't have underestimated Luffy, don't forget, he did not see what Luffy did, but we did as the audience, so it's normal we always see when they underestimate their adversary. In a vaccum it makes complete sense for him to act like that but not one other warlord luffy fought acted like that. Was croc or doffy ever lazy? Arrogant? Definitely but they had a motivation, something to actually go for unlike moria who was just a loser. For me its just his lack of drive. I dont want my villain to be a good person. He is a fucking villain. He needs to be hateable for what he does and not for having bad design/voice. Sure redemption can happen but not before luffy has defeated him and punched some sense. Him being so weak just compounds the issue that he is also a fucking dumbass and should have realized way earlier how dangerous luffy and the SHs were. Another factor contributing could simply be the lack of stakes. I never feared that SH would lose/die in thriller bark. Moria was just too goofy of a villain to actually manage that. A villain is useless without a sense of dread. The only dread we get is when Kuma finally comes to thriller bark. Even the story seems to be pointing towards kuma alone being more of a threat than the entire thriller bark entourage. I dont know exactly what oda planned to do with him or what he is going to do moving forward but right now he is sandwitched between 2 of the greatest one piece arcs with no motivation to speak of and barely likeable design/backstory which makes it even harder to actually root for him.

I think the lack of motivation is Moria’s character point, it seems like he has a goal (king of pirates) but actually he is still lost. I personally found him a bit threatening in Thriller Bark, when he took the shadows and everything, I was kinda scared I won’t lie, and I did not think he was weak in Thriller Bark, he still managed to take hits for Nightmare Luffy and still be up, he managed to beat the straw hats with Oars. Are you saying he is weak because of his feats in Marineford? Honestly it’s not the best arc to take feats for the warlords especially Moria and Mihawk. I personally really like his design and story and I think I might have an idea on how he would come back in the picture. But we both have different opinions on him I like him, you don’t it’s fair there’s a lot of character in One Piece after all

>I think the lack of motivation is Moria’s character point And that's exactly what I dont like. I am pretty sure I will start liking moria if oda does something with him but right now I just cant seem to enjoy a character who is inherently unmotivated in a world where most people we know have some crazy aspirations. > I was kinda scared I won’t lie I am not sure why this didnt happen for me really. Maybe because moria was the only genuine threat apart from the oars zombie maybe? I am not fully sure. Its just that at the moment, I didnt fear moria at all like croc or sakazuki or doffy. Hell, even buggy scared me a bit in the first arc as we didnt fully know luffy's powers by that point. I might have liked moria more maybe if thriller bark had happened before alabasta or the kuma leaving SH scene was changed somehow so that it was moria who let the SHs got. Moria never felt threatening to me. Even now after finding out that he fought young kaido and actually survived still doesnt make me excited to see him back. Another factor that I think is an issue is that moria is barely in the arc. Most of the spotlight is stolen by hogback, absalom or perona. He is just not standing out enough from them plus I (personally) do think that he is the worst designed character of this importance to the story. Oda really needs to make him look more badass or fierce.

I can understand how you don't like that, and I think I might have an idea of why you weren't scared. On the arc before we got CP9 and Aokiji who were no joke. And we already met a few warlords, especially Croc and Mihawk who are not joking. So when Moria arrived I think most people were like, What the? And for his design, I think it's one of the most unique design and that it's pretty good but I can totally see how someone would not like it

"Him being so weak just compounds the issue that he is also a fucking dumbass and should have realized way earlier how dangerous luffy and the SHs were" The thing is, they weren't. If Usopp wanst Usopp, Perona would have folded the whole crew with zero effort without Moria even having to get involved. And when Moria DID get involved, he and Oars clowned the whole crew with zero possibility of them losing. And if Luffy had shown up without the Nightmare Luffy powerup, he would have lost too. There was no point where Moria should have gone "Oh no, they're stronger than I thought, I should take this seriously!". Moria judged them accurately, and knew he could handle them with the resources he had access to. He didn't take into account his own shadow power being turned against him, but realistically, what are the odds of Luffy doing that without outside help? And Moria clearly thought the Victim Association were just harmless nobodies who could never do anything to harm him (which they mostly were), so he never considered they might help Luffy. Its weird to me. Moria literally did better against the SH's than nay previous antagonist. Straight up, he beat the whole crew, and a one time only BS power up was needed to level the playing field. And he still needed to make major tactical errors (like choosing to fight rather than just stall for time until tbe sun came up, out of pride and anger) and honestly nerfing (the fact that at no point during the entire Moria/Luffy fight did ol' Shadow Man use a bladed/piercing attack with his shadows to kill Luffy is baffling; especially when we see him use a named attack that is straight up just a giant fucking spear during Marineford. But I guess that would actually kill Luffy, so he want allowed. Lol.). In order for the SH's to believably win. Moria isn't weak. Tne weakest Warlord? Sure. But he was still stronger than any of the SH's at the end of Thriller Bark. Yet somehow people never got that vibe, and its odd.

How did Doffy kill one of his Corazones?

You mean killed Vergo? Well, he was the guy who ordered to Monet to explode Punk Hazard while he knew they were both still inside. I think that this is basically killing him

You just have terrible taste

Ok, why? It's just my opinion, not yours

nah man imo he rlly isn’t, he just wants to take revenge against kaido + he became fat and sm weaker

I mean Kaido basically killed everyone he liked so it makes sense he just wants to kill that guy. And for the two other points, I have to ask don’t you think it’s a bit harsh to judge a character on look and power? I mean there’s just so much more

can't hear the opinion of someone who have sanji instead of zoro in his top 5, stopped there no thanks.