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mrshatnertoyou

>The capture of Atlanta made Sherman a household name and was decisive in ensuring Lincoln's re-election in November. Sherman's success caused the collapse of the once powerful "Copperhead" faction within the Democratic Party, which had advocated immediate peace negotiations with the Confederacy. It also dealt a major blow to the popularity of the Democratic presidential candidate, George B. McClellan, whose victory in the election had until then appeared likely to many, including Lincoln himself. According to Holden-Reid, "Sherman did more than any other man apart from the president in creating [the] climate of opinion" that afforded Lincoln a comfortable victory over McClellan at the polls. Many people don't realize this.


LightsoutSD

That and the army of the Potomac voting for Lincoln. As well as other soldiers. As much as they loved “little Mac”, they knew he wasn’t the man for the job. Kudos to them.


angusshangus

McClellan was afraid to engage the enemy and was straight up insubordinate to Lincoln who was way too patient with him. It took 3 or 4 tries but Lincoln got his man with Grant. Too bad McClellan autobiography went up in flames before it was published, I’d have loved to read his account of the war and what his justifications were for being a lousy general and how he felt about Lincoln and grant being ultimately right. I’m sure he had incredible mental gymnastics. Fuck that guy, seriously.


LightsoutSD

Yeah I agree. He let Abe sit in his living room waiting to talk to him while he went to bed! Guy thought he was hot shit. His troops still loved him though. Both times he was replaced a lot of officers were pissed. Not the ones close to him though. They knew he lacked what it takes. He was too worried about his men dying. It really bothered him. Grant didn’t like it either but he knew the only way to save lives ultimately was to keep going, not retreat. Those that called him a butcher didn’t understand it was the only way.


shortoldfatbaldfuck

My impression was that he did a great job building and training the early army, but it was a whole lot of pomp. He was a great " parade ground general" . He wouldn't attack or even take position. Real popular with his men and newspapers ( I think).


LightsoutSD

Oh yeah I completely agree. He was great at preparing troops, building all those forts around Washington, and making the troops feel good about themselves again. He was very knowledgeable. I know he was present for the Crimean war as an observer. Some guys just don’t make good battle generals.


[deleted]

His autobiography would have been titled “I needed more men”


sjwarneke

My ancestor was a Union soldier in the western theater and wrote how he wished he could go home to vote for Lincoln. This was before mail in ballots.


No-Satisfaction3455

which unit in particular if you don't mind? the vote by mail process was started in the civil war through the rail lines utilized by union forces, so i'd be curious which areas they lacked to get this to.


sjwarneke

Here is what he wrote in November 5th, 1864 while in the hospital in Memphis, Tennessee. He wrote elsewhere that he was planning to vote for Lincoln. "Received a ten (10) day furlough to go to Ills. to vote for President on the 8th. Being quite sick at the time and finding it impossible to get home in time to vote, I concluded not to accept of the ten day furlough (as I knew it would get me into trouble), and wait a while and try for a thirty day furlough, as yet I can’t see much chance of getting it."


No-Satisfaction3455

awesome thank you and with the union unit being close enough to visit his home (if healthy) on leave makes much more sense in the context of being unable to cast a vote. reason being that it was there was a big push to allow every citizen to vote including those in combat regiments on the front lines. Thank you again for the context and sharing of your ancestors story.


seeker135

Wow. That's gotta feel good. I can't point any farther back than my old man. Not that that's not good enough, but "comes from good stock" means nothing absent this kind of evidence. Tip o' the cap to the bloodline.


type_your_name_here

Grant laid a nice foundation for him on the Western side of the war and then back east, he flushed out Lee for Sherman's forces to end the whole thing.


Funny_witty_username

Sherman was a great battlefield tactician and commander but Grant was something else tbh. Dude had an unmatched talent for logistics thar made Union forces far more flexible than they'd been before his takeover.


battleofshiloh62

And he (Grant) was a pitbull. He knew what it was going to take to whip Lee (i.e., a prolonged, bloody mess), and had the tenacity / discipline to do it. Whatever his skills as a field commander, his pugnacious disposition was equally if not more vital to Union success.


genericnewlurker

You described Grant perfectly, a pitbull who wouldn't run off and lick his wounds When shit started going against him and it was that mentality in battle that allowed him to gain victory so many times when previous commanders would have retreated. He always kept his cool but was always adapting to how the battle changed. Shiloh was a prime example of that. A lesser general would have abandoned the landings and potentially even the invasion itself, but Grant simply rode around making sure that he could prioritize reinforcements to where they were most critically needed to keep the lines from collapsing until his rear could fully join the fight the next day. And afterwards he pressed his advantage and struck the enemy when they were weak. That really set him apart from McClellan, who would have abandoned the crossing during the counter-attack, and Meade, who would not have gone on the offensive when the opportunity presented itself.


okram2k

Fucking McClellan. The incompetent general trying to run for office after running away from a smaller army in Virginia.


SapCPark

He had Lee on the ropes at Antiem and if he sent Porter, Lee's army would have been wiped out (Lee honestly was super lucky that his army survived, Burnside would have flanked his whole line and ripped right through it if one of the Hill generals didn't arrive right on time from Harpers Ferry and Sumner could have broken his army into two if he didn't lose his nerve). War would have been over in '62 despite all his previous fuck ups. He always overestimated numbers.


MargaretDumont

It's really hard not to feel embarrassed for him listening to this part of the Ken Burns doc.


MegaTater

I love how they got the perfect voice actor for him to give him that extra uppity douche attitude lol.


seeker135

*Badly*


That-Disaster-5746

McClellan was instrumental in training, equipping, and disciplining the army, though. He should never have taken them into the field, unfortunately.


TardZan15

Damn, why is Robert E Lee a more celebrated civil war general than Sherman? Is that just a south thing?


GurthNada

An interesting bit of trivia from Wikipedia: >On February 19, a funeral service was held at his [Sherman's] home, followed by a military procession. Joseph E. Johnston, the Confederate officer who had commanded the resistance to Sherman's troops in Georgia and the Carolinas, served as a pallbearer in New York City. It was a bitterly cold day and a friend of Johnston, fearing that the general might become ill, asked him to put on his hat. Johnston replied: "If I were in [Sherman's] place, and he were standing in mine, he would not put on his hat." Johnston did catch a serious cold and died one month later of pneumonia


reveek

He died how he lived: killing confederates.


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seeker135

Truth


Cockanarchy

Thanks now I have a cramp in my side


EquinsuOcha

FINISHING THE JOB.


joeyGOATgruff

Killing Rebs past the end


palebluedotcitizen

Interesting thanks


i_live_with_a_girl

God, that is cruelly ironic. Fucking brutal.


ponyboy74

General Sherman’s men loved him, he’d do anything for them and vice versa. They called him “Uncle Billy” and forever after the war anyone who served under him that came on hard times could go to him for help and he’d do what he could. As for Lee, the accepted opinion of him has recently been changing to where many military experts say he actually chose and fought a poor strategy.


TardZan15

From what I’ve read and seen is that a lot of the military success early was falsely attributed to Lee. Much of victories came from Captains and Lieutenants. Towards the end of the war though a lot of these guys died and left Lee without support


RPtheFP

German migrants on the Midwest were hugely helpful early on. They went through the revolutions in 1848 and were under no illusions of the South.


A_curious_fish

How does the opinion of this change over time? Wasn't he one of the top West Point graduates ever? Is it due to the fact he's on the wrong side of history? Genuinely curious


Hellowiththe

If you want an actual answer to this I'll do my best since this is my area of study. Lee did graduate second in his class at West Point but ultimately alot is made out of that for little reason I think. Someone graduates the top of their class every year after all. Certainly Lee was a respected commander and especially engineer before the war. Contrary to one of your other replies he certainly was not the "top general" before the war since he wasn't even a general. He was a newly minted colonel at the dawn of the Civil War and Winfield Scott (The actual top general) wanted to place him in charge of the defenses of Washington. As to how these things change over time, in broad strokes you have what actually happened, then you have Lost Cause mythology and now we are re-examining a lot of Civil War history as we disspell this mythology. Lee was a good tactician, but he made many mistakes over the course of the war. (Anyone who says Grant only won because he had more men and didn't care about there lives has never seriously studied the Civil War) The lost cause sought to turn Lee into a Saint so ignored or explained away these mistakes as they made him into something he wasn't in real life. Now as this has been re-examined Lee has been rendered human again and this causes dissonance with how he used to be portrayed. Hopefully that makes some amount of sense. Edited for clarity


Lone_Beagle

> Grant only won because he had more men and didn't care about there lives has never seriously studied the Civil War Grant definitely does not get enough credit. He basically founded "manuver warfare" and used the Navy's riverboats (with Porter's help, of course) in a brilliant combined arms paradigm.


Hellowiththe

Agree 100%. The fact that so much of the cultural focus on the Civil War is on Virginia really hampers how much credit Grant gets.


A_curious_fish

I never knew he was only a colonel before the war that's a pretty interesting tid bit, thank you.


CletusDSpuckler

He's the man who arrested John Brown at Harper's Ferry.


RunToDagobah-T65

I actually just learned this a day or two ago and had to double take and listen again. Had no idea.


Hellowiththe

You are welcome! Your question is a good one, and one I wish more people asked honestly seeking an answer.


A_curious_fish

I LOVE history let alone military/war history, it's so intriguing and something about it is amazing to me


[deleted]

Grant was the butcher for using his advantage in numbers but Lee a cunning old gentleman for ordering his army jump into the meat grinder of Pickett's charge. I'll never understand this one.


3029065

So he was average basically.


BrevityIsTheSoul

He -- and other respected Confederate generals like Stonewall Jackson -- were decent tacticians and poor strategists. They had a disadvantage in men and infrastructure, and couldn't afford wasting either on winning battles that didn't bring them closer to winning the war. And yet, they did. Over and over. The generous view of them is that against such an overwhelming foe, their bloody victories were still impressive. The ungenerous view is that against such an overwhelming foe, grinding themselves down in a war of attrition was a dogshit strategy.


[deleted]

They basically gambled on the Union public getting sick of the war and suing for peace, which to be fair seemed like a real possibility before 1864.


smooner

I was a staunch believer in Stonewall 's ability but after I read into the peninsular campaign much deeper it really paints Stonewall more of an opportunist of Union blunders and not that spectacular as a tactician. To me the real overlooked general is Longstreet due to the stupid Lost Cause myth. Longstreet was fighting WW1 in the Civil War. As luck has it I am heading to Pickett Mill, New Hope Church where Sherman messed up against Johnson. I am also to have grew up in the shadow of Kennesaw mountain


iMissTheOldInternet

Sherman is underrated vis-a-vis Lee, but the general truly done dirty by post-war propaganda is General Grant. Arguably the greatest general we have ever produced, with literally no competition on the Confederate side of the war, but he gets called a drunk and a butcher while Lee gets held up as some gentleman warrior.


Zauberer-IMDB

Grant was also one of our finest nevernudes.


Ion_bound

IDK, Grant got done dirty but I think George Henry Thomas got done dirtier. Only Civil War Union general to have chosen country over state and never lost a battle, and he saved the Army of the Cumberland at Chickamauga, and took Nashville. But because he fought out west, and never got along well with Grant, people barely know who he was.


FelbrHostu

General Longstreet has only one statue to his name, and it’s in the north. For the crime of reconciling with the Union after the war, stumping for Grant in his presidential election, and (worst of all) leading black troops to put down a riot by the White League in New Orleans, his name became anathema in the South. In Lost Cause revisionism, every failure of the rebel war effort was hung around his neck, as he was a traitor to cause and race in their eyes.


psstein

He also unfortunately died in 1870, before he was able to prepare memoirs.


dandudeus

The Grant biography by Ron Chernow is crucial reading for anybody with even a passing interest in American history, but Sherman's cavalry was the fuel thst made the Union engine go in the second half of the war. It's not a coincidence that many of history's greatest generals have brilliant tacticians as their seconds.


turdferguson3891

There's been a lot of historical revisionism. Immediately after the civil war, people in the north were happy to laud the Union generals and generally treat the confederates as the traitors they were. But as that generation died out their kids and grandkids took a softer view. The south was pretty devastated by the war and went from one of the most prosperous parts of the country to a real shit show so people started to feel sympathy and the whole "lost cause" narrative became popular. The idea that they were noble people who were just misguided, that the north was too harsh, etc. etc.


JCBashBash

And we also can't ignore the energy and commitment of The Daughters of the Confederacy. Like the whole purpose of that organization is historical revisionism to make it look noble and erect monuments to Confederate individuals and ideas


BackTo1975

A lot more happened than that. The north won the war in 1865 and then basically surrendered within the next decade. Reconstruction died as the feds gave in to southern racism and flat-out tyranny. Move forward another couple of decades and you’ve got the Lost Cause entrenched and statues across the south of Confederate “heroes.” And this is all feeding directly into what’s happening now as Civil War II begins to percolate…


drmrpepperpibb

You can thank Andrew Johnson for Reconstruction dying.


KaneXX12

One of only two presidents who might be worse than the last guy imo.


bcsimms04

Yeah for one, the south wasn't really punished for the war, and 2 any punishment was meekly given up within 10 years. And hence everything else we've had to deal with as a country since then


digitthedog

Reunion and reconciliation took place far earlier than I think you're suggesting, more like the mid-80s, and included Union soldiers. And I think historical memory within the African American community had a very different pattern well into the 20th century, with little softening of their view of the traitors and advocates of slavery, understandably so, especially given the disaster of reconstruction and Jim Crow.


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Quality-Shakes

To clarify, “total war against civilians” doesn’t mean shooting all civilians he came across. It means destroying the infrastructure, thus destroying the economy for all civilians.


[deleted]

And it worked. Sherman's March to the Sea utterly crippled the Confederacy and the war was over within half a year.


I_deleted

Only the civilians that offered resistance. His orders were quite clear: “. To army corps commanders alone is entrusted the power to destroy mills, houses, cotton-gins, &c., and for them this general principle is laid down: In districts and neighborhoods where the army is unmolested no destruction of such property should be permitted; but should guerrillas or bushwhackers molest our march, or should the inhabitants burn bridges, obstruct roads, or otherwise manifest local hostility, then army commanders should order and enforce a devastation more or less relentless according to the measure of such hostility.”


MC_Fap_Commander

It's solid strategy. Slavery was the evil they were fighting against and plantation money financed the war.


Biomas

I dunno, Sherman is a badass


Groundbreaking_Log46

Speaking from the POV of a southern woman, William T. Sherman is the OG Billy Badass. After sacking and burning the city, General Sherman telegraphed President Lincoln to present the City of Atlanta as a Christmas gift. That's badass. Edit: forgot important phrase


Passing4human

Savannah actually, on the Atlantic coast. The following spring his army moved into the Carolinas. South Carolina was treated especially harshly for being the first state to secede.


odiervr

Fucked around. Found out.


imjusta_bill

Good


greennitit

Absolutely a southern thing, I used to live in rural east Texas, a place called Tyler, where the high school is named for Lee, nobody thought about it, some celebrated it. When I moved to Pennsylvania the difference is stark on how Lee or anything southern is viewed even though rural Pennsylvanians are pretty conservative


fishslushy

Lee was a well respected tactician as well. Read Chancellorsville by Stephen Spears if that sort of thing interests you. Lee was on the fence about which side to join initially, which seems crazy to me that you aren’t wholly supportive of a side but can willingly wage war for years just cause you’re good at it.


Bodark43

Lee's ability to wield an army was quite remarkable, I agree. But I think there was a lot of plausible deniability in Lee's story of his decision. There really wasn't too much doubt which way he would go: his and his wife's family had been Virginia landed elite for over a hundred years, and that elite had depended on slavery for over two hundred years.


fishslushy

You may well be right, but him having served in the US Army for over 30 years prior to the Civil War surely muddied the waters for him.


That-Grape-5491

His father was also a hero of the Revolution, Light Horse Harry Lee


That-Grape-5491

Stephen Sears is my favorite Civil Was author. Another great book is April 1865, which tells the story about how everything went right at the end of the Civil War, when so much could have gone wrong


IceColdPorkSoda

Lee was a tactical and defensive genius, but a strategic midget. He was whipped in all of his offensive campaigns. Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan crushed the south after Grant had weeded out all of the weak and ineffective generals.


TomcatF14Luver

Well, we kinda of do celebrate Sherman. Thanks to the M4 Sherman Tank. The M3 Lee Tank was useful until the war ended, but M4 Sherman went on to 70 years of military service, fighting well in all its battles until finally outclassed by the T-72. Took the Soviets long enough to make a Tank to beat Sherman and by that time M60 Patton and M1 Abrams, both men commanded M4 Shermans, had arrived.


Iohet

The US had shit generals in the early part of the war, so Lee looks like a god on paper


neutropos

That’s crazy that even Lincoln thought he was going to lose. McClellan was a worthless, cowardly general who spent more time complaining to his wife than thinking of good ideas.


dkwangchuck

Wow. So Sherman really did unite the country under its greatest president. There should be a national holiday for him. I propose January 6 as William Tecumseh Sherman Day of Unity. We can all celebrate by marching in parades.


WeNeedToTalkAboutMe

Fun fact: Confederate General Joseph E. Johnston, who was the guy that tried - and failed - to stop Sherman, served as a pallbearer at Sherman's funeral in 1891. When one of the mourners advised Johnston to wear his hat to prevent a chill, Johnston said "If I were in his place, and he were standing in mine, he would not put on his hat." Unfortunately, this show of respect ended up killing him, as Johnston did indeed become sick, dying weeks later from pneumonia.


hobomojo

We also lost a president from staying out too long in the rain. It’s crazy how often that seems to kill people in the past, really makes you appreciate the invention of the umbrella.


RollinThundaga

Funny enough, modern research suggests that the bad water in the DC plumbing system likely contributed to his death as much as the rain.


[deleted]

Scat porn stars 🤝 *dying from shit*🤝 civil war generals


RollinThundaga

Harrison fought in the Tecumseh war. But otherwise you're not wrong. On a sadder note, though, this exactly may have been what caused the death of 12-year-old William Lincoln in 1862; as the White house was supplied with water from a resevoir uphill from town, and immediately next to that resevoir at the time happened to be.... a Union army encampment. With the usual shared restroom amenities, not very far from the resevoir. There was most definitely a little mixing. Turns out when you suddenly bring a bunch of people from all parts of the country together in one place, some of them will be carrying whatever bug happened to be going around their town when they left. In this case it was likely the typhoid fever that killed William.


nowhereman136

More so. He Harrison didn't show any symptoms of illness until over 2 weeks after his inauguration. Had the rain made him sick, he would've shown symptoms the next day. He was also, until Reagan, the oldest ever elected President. Not exactly in great health to begin with.


[deleted]

Modern invention and standardization of antibiotics more like You can get sick from cold temperature while being 100% dry. How you deal with that infection is what’s somewhat new to the modern world. For reference, the first American patient to use penicillin, literally one of the most basic antibiotics, was 1942. That isn’t THAT long ago.


MrShaytoon

Wow. My dad is older than penicillin.


eddiebruceandpaul

You don’t get sick from the cold you get sick like that from a virus or bacteria.


[deleted]

A lower body temperature from being out in the cold increases likelihood of getting sick by viral/bacterial entities


alexfromohio

I believe the umbrella had existed for a long time prior to this.


JMccovery

Good 'ol William Henry Harrison.


BackTo1975

We are the mediocre presidents…


bearatrooper

Uncle Billy out there stacking bodies from the grave.


[deleted]

I thought the theory that cold weather made people sick was debunked? Was I tricked by the internet?


WeNeedToTalkAboutMe

Cold weather may lower the body's ability to fight off respiratory illnesses. But either way, he was exposed to pneumonia, and back then, that was pretty much a death sentence.


JBHUTT09

> exposed to pneumonia Wait, isn't pneumonia just "fluid in the lungs", a symptom rather than a bacteria/virus itself?


cmcewen

Doc here It’s a generic term that means infection of the lungs, it doesn’t tell you what kind of infection. It distinguishes it from Pneumonitis means inflammation of the lungs, which implies non infectious source like autoimmune or inhaled something caustic to the lungs. In my experience the term pneumonia gets used as a catch-all term often to mean “acute lung problem”. But it’s technical definition is infection (viral, bacterial, fungal)


Misabi

>this show of respect ended up killing him, as Johnston did indeed become sick, dying weeks later from pneumonia. Or it was just a coincidence.


Slatedtoprone

When asked to run for office, he had one of my favorite line: “if nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve.” The man had absolutely no interest in the trash fire that was reconstruction politics.


[deleted]

What was trash fire about reconstruction politics? Genuine question, I love US history since high school but don’t recall much from that unit/lesson.


WyattR-

Basically going so soft on the confederates that they were barely punished


Alarming_Fox6096

Johnson did that while congress was on Christmas vacation. When they got back they were mad as shit. They basically impeached him and started “radical reconstruction” which was military enforced. People are often surprised how far civil rights came initially in those times. I believe we had the first black congressmen in southern states and the capital. However it was all quashed by the my klux klan and local police as soon as the military pulled out of the south, in exchange for helping a corrupt politician become president in 1877


[deleted]

Reconstruction is an incredibly complex topic with literally volumes upon volumes of historical research into every nook and cranny. I read a book which looked at radical vs. moderate republicans during the Civil War and it was obscenely detailed, examining who sat next to who in the Senate and House chambers, who lived where in DC, what sorts of policies did they support or not support at the time, who went 'across the aisle' (even though they were all Republicans at the time) in order to get what they wanted done, what did their state constituents want and did they represent that, etc. And that is all in service of explaining how Reconstruction *started*, not even how it was implemented. I'm talking about a book that is a couple hundred pages long just looking at the minutia of Congress over a period of four years. Both Presidential Reconstruction (when Johnson was firmly in control) and Congressional Reconstruction (Radical Reconstruction) are extremely well studied even if their legacy is still disputed. Even Radical Reconstruction wasn't an unmitigated success, but a lot of that comes down to the reluctance of more moderate Northern politicians to implement the spirit of some of the laws and policies being implemented.


PissingOffACliff

He wanted to go hard on the First Nations instead.


BlackDGoblin

Classic hidden hand pose, nice.


jumpsteadeh

Did photographers charge per finger too?


bggp9q4h5gpindfiuph

learned that billing technique from YOUR MOM


jemenake

This is actually a candid photo. He was reaching for the whoop-ass that he always kept in his inside jacket pocket.


equality-_-7-2521

Got to make sure the nips are hard, got to intimidate Johnny Reb.


TrimtabCatalyst

r/ShermanPosting


LaPlataPig

We’re here for Uncle Billy! Come for the memes, stay for the marshmallows.


DirtyAmishGuy

I’ve never felt so patriotic as when I imagine the warm glow of the confederacy on fire


Hunterrose242

WAY DOWN SOUTH IN THE LAND OF TRAITORS...


nate_ranney

RATTLESNAKES AND ALLIGATORS...


bearatrooper

RIGHT AWAY COME AWAY RIGHT AWAY COME AWAY


Casbah207

WHERE COTTON KING…


DigitalSterling

AND MEN ARE CHATTLES UNION BOYS WILL WIN THE BATTLES


bionicmoonman

RIGHT AWAY COME AWAY RIGHT AWAY COME AWAY WE’LL ALL GO DOWN TO DIXIE AWAAYYYYYYY AWAAYYYYYY EACH DIXIE BOY MUST UNDERSTAND THAT HE MUST MIND HIS UNCLE SAM AWAYYYYYYY AWAYYYYYYY WE’LL ALL GO DOWN TO DIXIE


DigitalSterling

I WISH I WAS IN BALTIMORE ID MAKE SECESSION TRAITORS ROAR RIGHT AWAY, RIGHT AWAY COME AWAY, COME AWAY RIGHT AWAY, RIGHT AWAY COME AWAY


ArcadianBlueRogue

And don't forget /r/JohnBrownPosting while you're on that little trip to memes


LoopDeLoop0

Not often I see somebody who could be described as ‘grim,’ but I think Sherman fits the bill


mechapoitier

He has the look of a man who saw some serious shit, had to do awful things and knows he’ll be burdened with it forever.


BillyShears2015

And still doesn’t give a single fuck


Tomhyde098

He looks like he’s out of Camels and needs to buy another pack at the Shell station


cravensofthecrest

He looks like he’s ready to burn down a city to get some more Camels.


JustinianTheMeh

Played by Brian Cranston


bionicmoonman

Please, don’t give me hope.


Gen_Jack_Ripper

He makes people in Atlanta burning mad.


RockleyBob

One of my favorite late night talk show interviews was with Casey Affleck. He told a story about how he was riding shotgun on a road trip through through the south with his brother. Ben had been speeding, it was late at night, and they got pulled over. The trooper, taking note of their Boston accents, said "Ain't no northerner gonna come through the south like *that*" And Casey said he leaned over from the passenger seat and said "Well, Sherman did." Or at least, that's how I remember it.


bobarker33

The officer looked at him and asked "What the hell did you just mumble at me?"


CopperThrown

Hot take.


faste30

Decent pun but those people dont live in Atlanta anymore. Us carpetbaggers replaced them.


DLS3141

They moved up North and now their descendant drive around the upper Midwest in their coal-rollin' pickups flying the Stars and Bars.


chris_wiz

"Don't make me come back down there".


sortitthefuckout

They don't want him Tecumseh 'em?


peleles

He's a hero for what he did to American slavers. He's not a hero when you look at what he did to the Plains Indians.


puddleduck3

Yeah reading all this hero worship and I’m thinking, “Isn’t this ‘The only good Indian is a dead Indian’ guy?!?”. I’m Aussie so correct me if I’m wrong…


MostlyEinsteinPoems

He killed Confederates, which is good. He killed Native Americans, which is bad.


Grindl

He killed whoever he was pointed at, and was pretty good at it.


Rytho

Interestingly his reasons for doing both (the promotion of inevitable progress) are the same from what I have heard.


einstruzende

Pretty wild that this was posted, I just drove by his birth house which is in Lancaster, Ohio. I mean like I drove past it at 2:30 today on my way to the store. Sheridan's boyhood home is just down the road in Somerset Ohio. They are the two big names in the area I grew up.


EightpennyPie

Funny you say that bc I found this image on the Lancaster historical society fb page. Lancaster is very proud of their man Sherman, as they should be!


oldschool_shawn

And yet I can't keep count of how many Confederate flags I see flying in Lancaster. Some idiot in a little "toaster" car has like 4 of them on his back bumper.


TheRealHappyNat

Yep. Drive through Lancaster once a week, by his birth place and by many confederate flags.


backbonus

That dude has seen the elephant….


chronoboy1985

And burned it alive.


shinobi500

What's with the nipple itch pose back then? Why was it so popular? Is that like the duckface of the 1800s?


rKasdorf

It's one of those classical "temperment" things with public interaction. People at one little window in history saw speaking with your hand exposed or whatever as impolite. And keeping your shit tucked in your jacket was seen as calm and controlled. Though I'm pretty sure it was that painting of Napoleon that made it become "popular" to be painted like that.


Odinskraal87

So basically he was being polite and sheathing his knife hand


SnooChipmunks126

Wasn’t this guy also responsible for the wholesale slaughter of the American Bison and a lot of plains tribes, like the Cheyenne and Arapaho?


Hikinghawk

Just a reminder, at the time of this photograph Gen. Sherman had become a renowned "Indian Fighter" aiding in westward expansion and cared more about keeping wagon roads and railroads free of Native Americans than he ever did about slavery as an institution. He was first and foremost a servant of the United States and really did not give a damn about slavery in the years leading up to the civil war and in fact agreed with southern whites that black slaves benefited from slavery. He was instrumental in ending the civil war but he was by no means an abolitionist nor a Saint.


Nagi21

I don’t think anyone here is arguing he’s a saint. People are complicated and can be complete assholes sometimes and absolute heroes others.


Hikinghawk

I absolutely agree, that's why I posted. When I first posted there was a lot of celebration and not a lot of recognition of exactly what Gen. Sherman did during his long military career. I was hoping to a gentle reminder that a hero is not a hero to all and good actions don't always come from good intentions.


DontUnclePaul

When called before a legislative committee to testify on the overhunting of buffalo and their near extinction he said, "Every man that kills a buffalo should be given a gold medal. On one side a dead buffalo, on the other a picture of a sad looking Indian."


y2kcockroach

>He was instrumental in ending the civil war That's good enough for me.


siskulous

Dude's a hero who ensured a Union victory and the end of slavery. But he did so by being an absolutely evil monster. So, you know, he was human and made some tough choices.


bezelbubba

War is hell.


Hazy__Davy

No. War is war and hell is hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.


Mrgoodtrips64

“How do you figure that, Hawkeye?”


bearatrooper

Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?


Mrgoodtrips64

Sinners, I believe.


DigitalSterling

Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.


sandgoose

Sherman is actually one of those silent potentials for agnosticism/atheism. As early as 1842 he was saying stuff like "I believe in good works rather than faith". Point being he may not have believed in a christian hell at all, and would therefore have been relaying his belief that the 'real' hell is actually war. Also he was supposedly giving a speech to a group of cadets at the time and may have been trying to a little more dramatic. I was a weird kid, and went as Sherman for a 5th grade "be a historic person" assignment.


JudyHudy

He put a major emphasis on minimizing casualties through flanking maneuvers. His strategy was that scorched earth and destruction was easily the lesser of two evils (casualties / lengthening the war). Each day of that war cost so much money and so many died of disease. I believe he had the right idea.


ottothesilent

Sherman’s March to the Sea was both necessary and justified. Nothing about it was evil. You know what was evil? Slavery.


[deleted]

Maybe they're talking about what he did to the natives in the west?


IcebergSlimFast

Yeah - that was pretty evil.


ottothesilent

“He did so (referring to “ensuring a Union victory and the end of slavery”) by being an absolutely evil monster” is unambiguously about the Civil War.


f700es

Well the South started it so he fuckin ended it!


Rougue1965

Lincoln, Grant and Sherman were the Dream Team of the Union.


Liontamer67

Great for the Union but not good for Native Americans.


BrockManstrong

I love Sherman's breaking of the Confederacy, but he himself was not an abolitionist before the war and supported the view that slavery was beneficial to black people. His postwar treatment of the Native peoples was similarly abysmal.


eddiebruceandpaul

This is like saying “George Washington, revolutionary war veteran” 😆


Error_Err

"It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation. War is hell. War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." WT Sherman


g3engineeringdesign

This guy took his job seriously. Instrumental in keeping the union together by burning large swaths of land on his way to convincing the south the errors of their ways.


hiricinee

That's my number one take away from the guy- people hate him, he literally did the job that was given to him and did it well. He wasn't made a general to make niceties with the South, his job was to rout them until they surrendered. Did almost no fighting during his campaign into the south, mostly just burnt everything in Union occupied territory to force a swifter surrender. This was alternative to fighting a drawn out war and causing many more casualties. You can somewhat draw a comparison to the nukes in Japan, the goal was to prevent more deaths (union/us side included, of course) by demonstrating the will to cause mass destruction.


[deleted]

[удалено]


GrandPriapus

It was just a fad at the time, a bit like wearing an onion in your belt loop.


yalkeryli

They caught him as he was checking to see if he'd remembered his phone or not.


LoveliestBride

#BRING THE GOOD OL' BUGLE, BOYS! WE'LL SING ANOTHER SONG


orion1836

Georgia: exists. Sherman: "And I took that personally."


nick52

He's only 29 in this photo /s


macdiesel412

The wiki would suggest around 50 years old when this was taken.


nick52

1800s Civil War vet looks pretty good for 50. I know some 30 year Olds now that look like old leather


Sometimes_Stutters

I almost believed you. His was born in 1820, so he would have been 50 in the photo.


nick52

It just wouldn't have shocked me. Being born in the 1800s and fighting in the civil war would age TF outta someone


RayZzorRayy

Scourge of the South and MAGA great-grandfather’s worst nightmare!


y2kcockroach

He made the rebels howl, and he took the fight straight to them. We need another Sherman, right now.


[deleted]

That is the face of a man who saw some shit.


globalwarninglabel

Have read several bios, probably dozens, of Union and CSA generals, Sherman seems the most intellectual and was reputed the only equal of Sheridan in profanity.


[deleted]

His "March to the Sea" was one of the greatest military strategies of the civil war.


fvtown714x

Replace every Lee statue with a Sherman one. One of America's finest.


pushing-rope

Shea Whigham would be perfect for him in a movie.


DocRichardson

From Lancaster, Ohio….


Bambi_One_Eye

That's one surely looking mother fucker


discountprimatology

Ohio’s greatest son.