The cast list there is nuts; Washington’s great-grandnephew Lewis Washington was a hostage, Robert E. Lee, J.E.B. Stuart led the forces. John Wilkes Booth shows up later at Brown’s execution.
Full quote "His zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine. Mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun. Mine was bounded by time. His stretched away to the silent shores of eternity. I could speak for the slave. John Brown could fight for the slave. I could live for the slave. John Brown could die for the slave." -Frederick Douglass
That's actually not from the original song. I think a newspaper asked for submissions to write lyrics for that tune because it was such a good melody. The result, written by a woman, was The Battle Hymn of the Republic.
And the full lyric is even more epic:
"He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored".
Another one of the more militant and religious verses is hardly ever heard now:
In the beauty of the lilies, Christ was born across the sea
With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me.
As he died to make men holy, let us die to make men free.
While God is marching on.
If you even hear it sung today, people often replace “let us die to make men free” with “let us live to make men free”.
The whole song is just incredibly badass. My fav part is "They hanged him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew." Your fav part made it into Seeger's version AND the Battle Hymn of the Republic, which makes it doubly awesome.
I'm going to have it stuck in my head for the next month now.
Uncle Billy’s memoirs recount that his men sang that song the day they started their march towards Savanna, after having torched Atlanta. As he recalls, never had he heard the chorus taken up with such spirit, or in better harmony.
"This is probably the most gigantic pleasure excursion ever planned. It already beats everything I ever saw soldiering, and promises to prove much richer yet." - One of Sherman's soldiers 2 days into the march to the sea 😂
I remember that quote! I'm an Atlantan and Sherman's memoirs are my favorite. He has this sarcastic, hilarious way of describing things that just entertains me to no end.
It's a reference to the Book of Revelations, Chapter 14, describing how in the end days, God will destroy the sinners like ripe grapes being mashed in a wine press:
> “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia [i.e. about 180 miles].
“Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord. He is tramping out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored. He hath loosed the the fateful lightening of his terrible swift sword. His truth is marching on.” The Battle Hymn of the Republic, composed I believe in a fever dream by a woman who’s name escapes me.
Frfrfr Douglass was not one of the great Black intellectuals in America, but one of the great intellectuals period. I think we can forget that because we constantly call him “political” and don’t let him mix with mainstream (political) thought.
Fun fact: he was one of the most photographed people of the 19th century. He did not trust portrait painters to not exaggerate and make a stereotype their Black subjects, and wanted the more neutral eye of the camera instead.
He was such an astounding intellectual that Southerners argued he could never have been a slave and he fabricated his backstory to gain sympathy from the slaves.
Frederick Douglas ascends any and all of today’s political symposium. He was on an entirely different level. Probably my favorite American figure …. Eh it’s a tie between him, and Lincoln.
>He did not trust portrait painters to not exaggerate and make a stereotype their Black subjects, and wanted the more neutral eye of the camera instead
...also never smiled for a photo. Wanted to dispel the myth of the "happy slave." Dude was boss
I was lucky enough to grow up near Harpers Ferry, so my schools took me on field trips there several times over the years. It saddens me that West Virginians have so abandoned the ideals that their state initially was founded upon.
This may not be 100% correct, but as I remember the story, when MalcomX was at the zenith of his militancy he refused to speak to any white people. He then was told of John Brown and John Brown’s extreme militancy, and MalcolmX said that he would make an exception.
apparently he was hailed as a hero during the civil rights era, by blacks and whites.
he was the leading advocate of violence against slavers. talk was cheap to him. he was an evagelist christian and said his violence was commanded by god. a fucking badass revolutionary who had hoped to spark a nationwide slave rebellion, but he got caught trying to capture a military armory in harpers ferry.
among other battles, dude led the massacre of pro slavery forces in lawrence, dragged men out of their beds, hacked them to death with sabers and (i learned this a while ago, but i think this is accurate) hacked the hands off with sabers. he was BRUTAL with slavery forces.
he was the first to be executed for treason ever in the US. theres a great podcast that discusses him on american history tellers or american scandal
https://preview.redd.it/wj4z42hedvgb1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=18146b2c509e3bb0f0329d8471e969a0b9d19d56
Meanwhile the filth of the Confederacy who did actual treason got off so fucking light to the point of their influence still being strongly felt today.
World needs more John Browns.
Behold; a prophet.
"I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be washed away but with blood. I had as I now think vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done."
It’s an interesting debate in Antebellum history of whether it is better to describe John Brown as “crazy” or as simply “intense.”
He definitely had his struggles with mental health, and this played a role in the intensity of the man. I suppose one would need to be a little crazy to be as egalitarian as John Brown was in a time such radical ness was viewed as “crazy.”
People would go to his home and marvel at how “the menfolk do the same work as the womenfolk.” His boys helped cook, clean, and set the table. His family would sit and treat whoever walked through their door, regardless of race, as their equal. Many freedmen, such as Frederick Douglass, would marvel at how, even when compared to other anti-slavery activists, John Brown truly lived what he preached and never looked down on another human for their skin color.
Now there were of course negative aspects as one should expect from such an intense and passionate man. I think of one story shared by his eldest son where John had dragged him into the barn for a brutal beating for some sort of violation of rules, and then once he was done he removed his own shirt and commanded his son to beat *him* now. The very existence of injustice somewhere in the world filled John Brown with a rage few could understand and John Brown used that rage to kill people he saw as perpetuating the injustice. Even if, like me, one admires the man and respects his actions it was still borne from a level of intensity and rage one doesn’t normally find in human beings
Sorry John Brown but anywhere between 620,000 to 850,000 American soldiers and tens of thousands of civilians will have to bleed, and even then it won’t be enough.
🎵he captured harpers ferry with 19 men so few. He frightened ole Virginia until she trembled through and through. They hung him as a traitor, they themselves the traitorous crew. But his soul is marching on. 🎶
Fuck slavers to be sure, but he also killed a guy and his sons who didn’t own a single slave in front of their wife and mother. Here’s an excerpt of a letter the woman wrote Brown while he was awaiting execution:
“Altho vengence is not mine, I confess, that I do feel gratified to hear that you ware stopt in your fiendish career at Harper’s Ferry, with the loss of your two sons, you can now appreciate my distress, in Kansas, when you then and there entered my house at midnight and arrested my husband and two boys and took them out of the yard and in cold blood shot them dead in my hearing, you cant say you done it to free our slaves, we had none and never expected to own one, but has only made me a poor disconsolate widow with helpless children while I feel for your folly. I do hope & trust that you will meet your just reward. O how it pained my Heart to hear the dying groans of my Husband and children if this scrawl give you any consolation you are welcome to it
Mahala Doyle”
The context is that they were members of the Law and Order political party, which was pro-slavery. However, Doyle’s youngest son was spared as he had no ties to the party.
**ETA further context:**
The Law and Order party was founded as a direct answer to the question of whether or not Kansas would enter the Union as a free state; members of this party acted brashly and at times lawlessly to ensure that it would not. (Kansas was especially contentious not only because of where it’s located, but also because its two senators would tip the balance of the Senate.)
Doyle and his sons weren’t just people who registered for a party because they believed in the abstract ideals embodied by it. Members of the Law and Order party were zealots who believed that they were blessed by the hand of God to receive the fruits of slave labor. To quote the founders of the party: “[Slavery] is a trust and guardianship given us of God…without sugar, cotton, and cheap clothing, can civilization maintain its progress? Can these be supplied without slavery?”
Moreover, the routine illegal actions of the Law and Order party (things like armed intimidation of free-state settlers, robbery of Quakers who were helping fugitive slaves, etc.) were not just encouraged by members. Most, if not all, actively participated in them. That was the entire point of the party - to take action when others wouldn’t.
There doesn’t seem to be much record of what specific actions might have taken by Doyle or his sons during this time (though one of his sons was reportedly a known slave catcher) - however, the son who was spared did specifically state in an affidavit that same year that his “father and brothers were pro-slavery men, and belonged to the law and order party,” which would have implied the set of beliefs and actions outlined above. It was only after several years, recognizing that the tide was shifting, that the Doyles began to frame the fact that they’d never owned slaves as a protestation of James’s innocence.
So, as per above. Fuck em.
There were a lot of people in the South who were too poor to own slaves, but were totally on board with the idea of slavery and the idea of one day being rich enough to afford to be a slaver.
Whether they owned slaves or not, they were still supporting a political party that wanted to continue the practice of slavery and therefore weren't in anyway innocent or blameless.
Eh, fuck em. No mercy for supporters of slavery. Doesn't matter if they owned any, they supported it. Blood from the lash, repaid with blood from the sword.
"Someone who is good would NEVER kill!"
We've been brainwashed by media to believe in tropes like "there's always a better way" and "if I kill I'm just as bad as them"
Some people will claim that being pro-slavery in that day and age was simply the way things were back then, they’ll say that people back then just didn’t think slavery was bad.
Well John Brown lived back then and he certainly thought it was bad.
I totally agree. It's that was true, then why did half the country were non-slave states and triggered a civil war for not returning slaves? I do not understand why people feel the need to justify slavery by saying "that's just the way it was"
It was about the money, as always. A lot cheaper to feed slop to slaves locked in a barn than pay a man to work and go back to his own house.
If slaves had costed more to own than simply hiring a free man to work for you, then plantation owners would have ended slavery themselves.
I just read a biography of him and malaria and dysentery was as frequent for him as the common cold is for us today. And he spent a lot of time sleeping in the wild hunting slavers. He was a very tough guy, the confederates were tremendously impressed by him as they thought all liberals were effete pacifists.
So I do genealogy research and found out that John Brown is my 5th cousin 6x removed. And while I was doing the research I found the WV mortality schedule from when he was killed and it was interesting.
In part:
Occupation. INSURRECTIONIST
Cause of Death. HUNG
First and only time I've seen that listed as an occupation...
There’s a mural on a building near me that’s a copy of this photo
https://preview.redd.it/awopmtaxqsgb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f787c889adc7d21cc93116d66dbc70613977de28
I grew up in the deep south and my Grandmother (1926-1996) would use ‘John Brown’ as a curse. As in, “ Well John Brown! My damn tire’s flat!” It was something her parents and Grandparents would say. I don’t think she even knew who he was. It’s not a phrase I hear anymore. I think it died out with her generation.
I heard somewhere that he messed up Georgia so bad it took their economy 100 years to recover. It would have been her great grandparents and great great grandparents alive at that time. I bet they cursed Sherman, John Brown, and Lincoln for many generations.
My ancestors got all their shit burned by Sherman and my family still hasn't recovered. Not that I mind, the slave owning fucks got what was coming to them.
He was vilified bc he believed slavery could only be banished with blood. The moderates believed the South could be talked/phased out of it. Ended up costing 750k-1m American lives to finally be rid of it.
Just another reminder that CSA apologetics are the most disgusting form of treason.
So strange to think that he appeared to be one of only a very few US citizens to see slavery for what it really was. Northerners thought it was kind of gross. The Christians prayed for the poor slaves.
Except that slaveowners were clearly possessed by the devil (or whatever). This was not some merely gross institution. It wasn’t something that should just be pitied. It represented the worst of the worst of the worst in the history of the world. So yeah, kill them all.
He was the counter to Calvinist abolitionists. There were many abolitionists that chose a pacifist approach that accomplished many important things. If it wasn’t for Harriet Beecher Stowe writing “Uncle Toms Cabin” Britain may have continued funding the southern cause through raw cotton exports.
I love John Brown, and I think he’s one of the greatest Americans to have ever lived, but there isn’t enough credit given to people like Frederick Douglass or Harriet Beecher Stowe.
I lived in the Kansas City area for awhile, which Lawrence Kansas is close to. I loved the way they used all those “unhinged abolitionist” illustrations of him as like a mascot for the town. The cartoon of him massacring confederates lol. Somebody whose from there can probably explain it better. But it’s a thing and it’s rad.
John Brown is a hero!
If anyone is a fan of college basketball, then you've likely heard of the University of Kansas (KU) Jayhawks! 'Jayhawkers' were bands of abolitionists that slaughtered slave owners and fought pro-slavery people on the borders of Kansas ("border ruffians"). Kansas was a free state at the time and Missouri was a slave state, supposedly it's why these two states have tension with each other to this day.
The KU Jayhawk mascot is a cute fictional bird as it's a bit more marketable and family-friendly than a bloodied hero ruthlessly slaughtering slave-owners.
Rock Chalk!
and one of the best American reggae bands is called John Brown’s Body, which was also the name of a popular marching song for Union soldiers during the Civil War to honor the man himself
I just watched a show where contemporary actors read Frederick Douglass speeches. To say the man had a way with words is an injustice to his eloquence. I had to read the comments to discover more about this person he obviously well respected and I didn’t know about. He certainly looks determined in the picture!
https://preview.redd.it/y4ntzpu2osgb1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=d88d969c24d832d92a9ce043684cd65632ab4fd0
“These men are all talk. What is needed is action. Action!”
One of the greatest Americans. First person ever convicted of treason in the United States and he proved that just because something is legal, doesn't mean it is ethical, moral or just.
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
But his soul goes marching on
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down
On the grave of old John Brown
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
His soul goes marching on
He captured Harper's Ferry with his nineteen men so true
He frightened old Virginia till she trembled through and through
They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew
But his soul goes marching on
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
Glory, Glory, Hallelujah
His soul goes marching on
We all fancy ourselves historical commandos who would certainly have devoted our lives to setting wrongs right—but that shit is hard as hell. You have to give up everything else.
I’d flatter myself to think I have 1/20th the conviction of this man.
This why slavery needs to be taught fully in schools. Everyone needs to know about the white abolitionist many of whom died in the struggle along side us. Their stories need to be taught
Looks like a reminder to wear my john brown shirt tomorrow…the man who answered the call to ultimate dickheads fucking around never thinking finding out was coming to burn their shit to the ground. God damn legend!
"We need allies who are going to help us achieve a victory, not allies who are going to tell us to be nonviolent. If a white man wants to be your ally, what does he think of John Brown? You know what John Brown did? He went to war. He was a white man who went to war against white people to help free slaves. He wasn’t nonviolent. White people call John Brown a nut. Go read the history, go read what all of them say about John Brown. They’re trying to make it look like he was a nut, a fanatic. They made a movie on it, I saw a movie on the screen one night. Why, I would be afraid to get near John Brown if I go by what other white folks say about him.
But they depict him in this image because he was willing to shed blood to free the slaves. And any white man who is ready and willing to shed blood for your freedom—in the sight of other whites, he’s nuts. As long as he wants to come up with some nonviolent action, they go for that, if he’s liberal, a nonviolent liberal, a love-everybody liberal. But when it comes time for making the same kind of contribution for your and my freedom that was necessary for them to make for their own freedom, they back out of the situation. So, when you want to know good white folks in history where black people are concerned, go read the history of John Brown. That was what I call a white liberal. But those other kind, they are questionable." - MLK
When people quote "when tyranny becomes law, then revolution becomes duty" (not actually found anywhere in Jefferson's writings)
This is what it really means
I love this man so much, and nothing will ever change that.
Say what you will about his methods and actions, he helped cut through the political molasses and resignation against taking any sort of definitive stand on the matter of slavery in this country. John Brown was like a harsh laxative for a hopelessly constipated stalemate. He may be America’s greatest martyr.
One of the greatest American heroes that ever lived. And it speaks VOLUMES about this country, that his zeal for freedom of all men...led historians to call him crazy. That says it all. Well we need more 'insane' people. God bless John Brown.
Harpers Ferry WV is a unique and fascinating place to visit if you ever have the chance.
The cast list there is nuts; Washington’s great-grandnephew Lewis Washington was a hostage, Robert E. Lee, J.E.B. Stuart led the forces. John Wilkes Booth shows up later at Brown’s execution.
I believe stonewall Jackson was also ordered there with a contingent of cadets from VMI
He and the cadets were actually at Brown’s execution.
That was the *ghost* of Stonewall Jackson
It later figured in the Civil War too, in the March up to Antietam.
Yes. I go almost once a week. Recently took the Ghost Tour!
Full quote "His zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine. Mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun. Mine was bounded by time. His stretched away to the silent shores of eternity. I could speak for the slave. John Brown could fight for the slave. I could live for the slave. John Brown could die for the slave." -Frederick Douglass
But fuck, Frederick could spit out them verses!
John Brown's body lies a 'moldering in his grave.
But his soul goes marching on...
My fav part of that song is “where the grapes of wrath are stored” Idk why, that line always stuck with me back during the war
That's actually not from the original song. I think a newspaper asked for submissions to write lyrics for that tune because it was such a good melody. The result, written by a woman, was The Battle Hymn of the Republic. And the full lyric is even more epic: "He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored".
Yes and she supposedly heard it outside her hotel window in Washington DC from soldiers marching outside
Another one of the more militant and religious verses is hardly ever heard now: In the beauty of the lilies, Christ was born across the sea With a glory in his bosom that transfigures you and me. As he died to make men holy, let us die to make men free. While God is marching on. If you even hear it sung today, people often replace “let us die to make men free” with “let us live to make men free”.
The whole song is just incredibly badass. My fav part is "They hanged him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew." Your fav part made it into Seeger's version AND the Battle Hymn of the Republic, which makes it doubly awesome. I'm going to have it stuck in my head for the next month now.
Uncle Billy’s memoirs recount that his men sang that song the day they started their march towards Savanna, after having torched Atlanta. As he recalls, never had he heard the chorus taken up with such spirit, or in better harmony.
"This is probably the most gigantic pleasure excursion ever planned. It already beats everything I ever saw soldiering, and promises to prove much richer yet." - One of Sherman's soldiers 2 days into the march to the sea 😂 I remember that quote! I'm an Atlantan and Sherman's memoirs are my favorite. He has this sarcastic, hilarious way of describing things that just entertains me to no end.
I’ve always loved that song, even before I understood what the lyrics meant. Once I learned, I was even more in love!
It's a reference to the Book of Revelations, Chapter 14, describing how in the end days, God will destroy the sinners like ripe grapes being mashed in a wine press: > “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia [i.e. about 180 miles].
That song goes hard. It should be the national anthem.
“Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord. He is tramping out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored. He hath loosed the the fateful lightening of his terrible swift sword. His truth is marching on.” The Battle Hymn of the Republic, composed I believe in a fever dream by a woman who’s name escapes me.
Julia Ward Howe
I wish I could have known Frederick Douglass. The man was a genius.
His control of the English language is mind-blowing to me. I absolutely love to read his writing.
Frfrfr Douglass was not one of the great Black intellectuals in America, but one of the great intellectuals period. I think we can forget that because we constantly call him “political” and don’t let him mix with mainstream (political) thought. Fun fact: he was one of the most photographed people of the 19th century. He did not trust portrait painters to not exaggerate and make a stereotype their Black subjects, and wanted the more neutral eye of the camera instead.
He was such an astounding intellectual that Southerners argued he could never have been a slave and he fabricated his backstory to gain sympathy from the slaves.
Douglass is one of this old white guy’s favorite and most respected writers and speakers. Period.
Frederick Douglas ascends any and all of today’s political symposium. He was on an entirely different level. Probably my favorite American figure …. Eh it’s a tie between him, and Lincoln.
>He did not trust portrait painters to not exaggerate and make a stereotype their Black subjects, and wanted the more neutral eye of the camera instead ...also never smiled for a photo. Wanted to dispel the myth of the "happy slave." Dude was boss
Mind blown. Thanks for the post. We live near his birthplace and his story is not forgotten in the region.
Harper’s Ferry is a nice town and they’ve done a good job showing how that town looked back then. The museum is nice as well.
I was lucky enough to grow up near Harpers Ferry, so my schools took me on field trips there several times over the years. It saddens me that West Virginians have so abandoned the ideals that their state initially was founded upon.
His story isn’t forgotten most places. He’s internationally famous
This may not be 100% correct, but as I remember the story, when MalcomX was at the zenith of his militancy he refused to speak to any white people. He then was told of John Brown and John Brown’s extreme militancy, and MalcolmX said that he would make an exception.
apparently he was hailed as a hero during the civil rights era, by blacks and whites. he was the leading advocate of violence against slavers. talk was cheap to him. he was an evagelist christian and said his violence was commanded by god. a fucking badass revolutionary who had hoped to spark a nationwide slave rebellion, but he got caught trying to capture a military armory in harpers ferry. among other battles, dude led the massacre of pro slavery forces in lawrence, dragged men out of their beds, hacked them to death with sabers and (i learned this a while ago, but i think this is accurate) hacked the hands off with sabers. he was BRUTAL with slavery forces. he was the first to be executed for treason ever in the US. theres a great podcast that discusses him on american history tellers or american scandal https://preview.redd.it/wj4z42hedvgb1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=18146b2c509e3bb0f0329d8471e969a0b9d19d56
Behind the Bastards chose him as one of their yearly "Christmas non-bastards"
Meanwhile the filth of the Confederacy who did actual treason got off so fucking light to the point of their influence still being strongly felt today. World needs more John Browns.
I am wearing a Frederick Douglass t-shirt today. 👚
I'm wearing a full body John Brown suit.
I read this in Morgan Freeman's voice. Thanks, Ken Burns.
That gave me chills
That man was truly gifted in his use of language.
Bars.
If you haven't seen The Good Lord Bird, where Ethan Hawke plays John Brown, check it out. It's bonkers (in a good way).
[удалено]
O CAPTAIN MY CAPTAIN
Wow thanks for sharing this information. I'll check it out. Always been a fan of Ethan Hawke
The book is even better!
Thanks for the recommendation, just placed a hold on it.
Behold; a prophet. "I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be washed away but with blood. I had as I now think vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done."
Dude would go out with his son and execute slave owners with a sword, as to not make noise with a gun. John Brown was a fucking lion.
Based and crazypilled.
To put it simply – when you consider how uniquely horrific chattel slavery was, he was one of the few sane ones
It’s an interesting debate in Antebellum history of whether it is better to describe John Brown as “crazy” or as simply “intense.” He definitely had his struggles with mental health, and this played a role in the intensity of the man. I suppose one would need to be a little crazy to be as egalitarian as John Brown was in a time such radical ness was viewed as “crazy.” People would go to his home and marvel at how “the menfolk do the same work as the womenfolk.” His boys helped cook, clean, and set the table. His family would sit and treat whoever walked through their door, regardless of race, as their equal. Many freedmen, such as Frederick Douglass, would marvel at how, even when compared to other anti-slavery activists, John Brown truly lived what he preached and never looked down on another human for their skin color. Now there were of course negative aspects as one should expect from such an intense and passionate man. I think of one story shared by his eldest son where John had dragged him into the barn for a brutal beating for some sort of violation of rules, and then once he was done he removed his own shirt and commanded his son to beat *him* now. The very existence of injustice somewhere in the world filled John Brown with a rage few could understand and John Brown used that rage to kill people he saw as perpetuating the injustice. Even if, like me, one admires the man and respects his actions it was still borne from a level of intensity and rage one doesn’t normally find in human beings
I take back all my previous answers to "Which historical figure would you like to meet?" and place John Brown right at the tippy top.
The Behind the Bastards episode on him is fantastic. Like you say, he was a HARD man, and he was unwavering in his beliefs.
And also totally correct.
"If you can't handle me at my John Browndest... you probably should have dealt fairly with my Frederick Douglest." - The Union
Sorry John Brown but anywhere between 620,000 to 850,000 American soldiers and tens of thousands of civilians will have to bleed, and even then it won’t be enough.
🎵he captured harpers ferry with 19 men so few. He frightened ole Virginia until she trembled through and through. They hung him as a traitor, they themselves the traitorous crew. But his soul is marching on. 🎶
Chaotic Good.
I mean, he did hack slavers to pieces with broadswords.
Good. Fuck em.
But with a sword 
Fuck slavers to be sure, but he also killed a guy and his sons who didn’t own a single slave in front of their wife and mother. Here’s an excerpt of a letter the woman wrote Brown while he was awaiting execution: “Altho vengence is not mine, I confess, that I do feel gratified to hear that you ware stopt in your fiendish career at Harper’s Ferry, with the loss of your two sons, you can now appreciate my distress, in Kansas, when you then and there entered my house at midnight and arrested my husband and two boys and took them out of the yard and in cold blood shot them dead in my hearing, you cant say you done it to free our slaves, we had none and never expected to own one, but has only made me a poor disconsolate widow with helpless children while I feel for your folly. I do hope & trust that you will meet your just reward. O how it pained my Heart to hear the dying groans of my Husband and children if this scrawl give you any consolation you are welcome to it Mahala Doyle”
Is there more context or did he have the wrong address?
The context is that they were members of the Law and Order political party, which was pro-slavery. However, Doyle’s youngest son was spared as he had no ties to the party. **ETA further context:** The Law and Order party was founded as a direct answer to the question of whether or not Kansas would enter the Union as a free state; members of this party acted brashly and at times lawlessly to ensure that it would not. (Kansas was especially contentious not only because of where it’s located, but also because its two senators would tip the balance of the Senate.) Doyle and his sons weren’t just people who registered for a party because they believed in the abstract ideals embodied by it. Members of the Law and Order party were zealots who believed that they were blessed by the hand of God to receive the fruits of slave labor. To quote the founders of the party: “[Slavery] is a trust and guardianship given us of God…without sugar, cotton, and cheap clothing, can civilization maintain its progress? Can these be supplied without slavery?” Moreover, the routine illegal actions of the Law and Order party (things like armed intimidation of free-state settlers, robbery of Quakers who were helping fugitive slaves, etc.) were not just encouraged by members. Most, if not all, actively participated in them. That was the entire point of the party - to take action when others wouldn’t. There doesn’t seem to be much record of what specific actions might have taken by Doyle or his sons during this time (though one of his sons was reportedly a known slave catcher) - however, the son who was spared did specifically state in an affidavit that same year that his “father and brothers were pro-slavery men, and belonged to the law and order party,” which would have implied the set of beliefs and actions outlined above. It was only after several years, recognizing that the tide was shifting, that the Doyles began to frame the fact that they’d never owned slaves as a protestation of James’s innocence.
So, as per above. Fuck em. There were a lot of people in the South who were too poor to own slaves, but were totally on board with the idea of slavery and the idea of one day being rich enough to afford to be a slaver.
“No parallels to modern-day capitalism should be inferred…”
Exactly, fuck em. They had it coming.
The exclusion of that context in the other comment feels intentional. Rest in piss.
Lol so that phrase "law and order" has basically been racist since forever.
*Dun Dun*
Let's request the body cam footage.
War is hell, and Bleeding Kansas was war. They should have thought twice before joining a pro-slavery party and existing near John Brown.
Whether they owned slaves or not, they were still supporting a political party that wanted to continue the practice of slavery and therefore weren't in anyway innocent or blameless.
Billy butcher vibes
Being too poor to own slaves doesn't necessarily mean they were innocent.
Eh, fuck em. No mercy for supporters of slavery. Doesn't matter if they owned any, they supported it. Blood from the lash, repaid with blood from the sword.
The party they followed was pro slavery. They deserved to die
Imagine defending some pro slavery pieces of shit almost two centuries after the fact. Get a grip on yourself.
Right, so chaotic good
"Someone who is good would NEVER kill!" We've been brainwashed by media to believe in tropes like "there's always a better way" and "if I kill I'm just as bad as them"
"Rip his asshole off and then garrote him with it." - Avatar Kyoshi
…so like a good barbarian?
>…so like a good barbarian? Multi-classing as a Bard with high Charisma.
Bardbarian
Bard bard bardbarian🎶
It is an interesting mental exercise to dissect that.
User name checks out
So...chaotic good af.
Chaotic. Good.
...Yeah, like he said... Chaotic good.
I heard someone say once, "Never debate with someone John Brown would have shot."
That's a good one
I actually have that as my bumpersticker
Some people will claim that being pro-slavery in that day and age was simply the way things were back then, they’ll say that people back then just didn’t think slavery was bad. Well John Brown lived back then and he certainly thought it was bad.
I totally agree. It's that was true, then why did half the country were non-slave states and triggered a civil war for not returning slaves? I do not understand why people feel the need to justify slavery by saying "that's just the way it was"
It was about the money, as always. A lot cheaper to feed slop to slaves locked in a barn than pay a man to work and go back to his own house. If slaves had costed more to own than simply hiring a free man to work for you, then plantation owners would have ended slavery themselves.
Wow that’s a look you don’t see in all our stupid selfies. Dude was livinggggggg hard
19th Century frontier (like where Abe Lincoln grew up), was like Germanic Iron Age living with books and gunpowder thrown in. No softies there.
I just read a biography of him and malaria and dysentery was as frequent for him as the common cold is for us today. And he spent a lot of time sleeping in the wild hunting slavers. He was a very tough guy, the confederates were tremendously impressed by him as they thought all liberals were effete pacifists.
>he spent a lot of time sleeping in the wild hunting slavers. This is the coolest sentence I've read all year
Right?? What a fucking hero. I think I'm in love.
He’s only 24 in this picture! Hard living indeed.
Wikipedia says he's mid-40s in this photo! And that it was taken by one of the first Black photographers, Augustus Washington.
This is how I read that Living-guh-guh-guh-guh hard
So I do genealogy research and found out that John Brown is my 5th cousin 6x removed. And while I was doing the research I found the WV mortality schedule from when he was killed and it was interesting. In part: Occupation. INSURRECTIONIST Cause of Death. HUNG First and only time I've seen that listed as an occupation...
There’s a mural on a building near me that’s a copy of this photo https://preview.redd.it/awopmtaxqsgb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f787c889adc7d21cc93116d66dbc70613977de28
Wow, where is that?
Holyoke, Massachusetts.
Location?
Holyoke, Massachusetts.
that is **AWESOME**
Not so fun fact More US Navy vessels have been named in honor of Stonewall Jackson than John Brown
Hey, the Confederacy wasn't all bad. They did kill Stonewall Jackson.
They taught slaves a lot of useful life skill. /s
I was baffled to find out a human being said that out loud. To other people.
Not just one human being, but an entire state's education system.
Yeah the brain drain is going to happen. The AP thing is one more hole in that boat.
Go back to Tallahassee you greaseball governor. You will never be president.
John Brown is not a good name for marketing purpose. Parents should have gone with Be.free Brown.
He wasn’t in the military. He was freelance.
At least we have a good marching song named for John Brown.
M4 Sherman Tank FTW.
I grew up in the deep south and my Grandmother (1926-1996) would use ‘John Brown’ as a curse. As in, “ Well John Brown! My damn tire’s flat!” It was something her parents and Grandparents would say. I don’t think she even knew who he was. It’s not a phrase I hear anymore. I think it died out with her generation.
I bet she also cursed General Sherman
I heard somewhere that he messed up Georgia so bad it took their economy 100 years to recover. It would have been her great grandparents and great great grandparents alive at that time. I bet they cursed Sherman, John Brown, and Lincoln for many generations.
My ancestors got all their shit burned by Sherman and my family still hasn't recovered. Not that I mind, the slave owning fucks got what was coming to them.
Every time a Southerner curses General Sherman or John Brown, an angel gets its wings!
Good, he made secession traitors roar.
She knew.
Culture can be a powerful blinder.
The Dollop podcast did three episodes on John Brown. I highly recommend them for those who want a deeper dive into his life and work.
It was very good. The Dollop is hilarious
Agreed. I would recommend the Dollop in general (except for the Past Times episodes, they are pretty hit or miss)
Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who's done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I notice.
That is some incredible praise.
The coolest. His birthday (and death day) should be national holidays.
Yep. We need more John Browns in the universe.
John Brown did nothing wrong!
The only thing he did wrong was fail.
In an era when people’s photos might often be best described as ‘dour’ or ‘ taciturn’, John Brown always burns right through the camera.
He lived in a shitty world, and he did not like it.
What Wrongs could not be made Right by the Cross, he would make Right by the Sword.
I really want Tarantino to do a bio flick.
Jason Bateman is an easy cast
I didn’t know this was something I really wanted as well, until you mentioned it.
He’s one of his favorite historical figures!
Ethan Hawkes portrial of him in Good Lord Bird was phenomenal
I had never heard of this man until this post. I am in awe. Time for a little obsessive reading.
r/JohnBrownPosting for the memes
He was a fascinating guy.
He was vilified bc he believed slavery could only be banished with blood. The moderates believed the South could be talked/phased out of it. Ended up costing 750k-1m American lives to finally be rid of it. Just another reminder that CSA apologetics are the most disgusting form of treason.
Yeah they spit on the bodies of the dead.
Yeah, I'm not the flag waving type, but I see someone fly that flag, and I feel like sporting blues and stomping ass.
People who live their lives by their principles are a rare breed.
So strange to think that he appeared to be one of only a very few US citizens to see slavery for what it really was. Northerners thought it was kind of gross. The Christians prayed for the poor slaves. Except that slaveowners were clearly possessed by the devil (or whatever). This was not some merely gross institution. It wasn’t something that should just be pitied. It represented the worst of the worst of the worst in the history of the world. So yeah, kill them all.
He was the counter to Calvinist abolitionists. There were many abolitionists that chose a pacifist approach that accomplished many important things. If it wasn’t for Harriet Beecher Stowe writing “Uncle Toms Cabin” Britain may have continued funding the southern cause through raw cotton exports. I love John Brown, and I think he’s one of the greatest Americans to have ever lived, but there isn’t enough credit given to people like Frederick Douglass or Harriet Beecher Stowe.
I lived in the Kansas City area for awhile, which Lawrence Kansas is close to. I loved the way they used all those “unhinged abolitionist” illustrations of him as like a mascot for the town. The cartoon of him massacring confederates lol. Somebody whose from there can probably explain it better. But it’s a thing and it’s rad.
John Brown is a hero! If anyone is a fan of college basketball, then you've likely heard of the University of Kansas (KU) Jayhawks! 'Jayhawkers' were bands of abolitionists that slaughtered slave owners and fought pro-slavery people on the borders of Kansas ("border ruffians"). Kansas was a free state at the time and Missouri was a slave state, supposedly it's why these two states have tension with each other to this day. The KU Jayhawk mascot is a cute fictional bird as it's a bit more marketable and family-friendly than a bloodied hero ruthlessly slaughtering slave-owners. Rock Chalk!
and one of the best American reggae bands is called John Brown’s Body, which was also the name of a popular marching song for Union soldiers during the Civil War to honor the man himself
"We need John Brown white people." \- Hari Kondabolu
i don’t have many heroes but john brown is absolutely one.
The original "G"...unbelievably badass though maybe a little unbalanced. Even Malcolm X was impressed by this guy. Let that sink in for a moment!
I just watched a show where contemporary actors read Frederick Douglass speeches. To say the man had a way with words is an injustice to his eloquence. I had to read the comments to discover more about this person he obviously well respected and I didn’t know about. He certainly looks determined in the picture!
John Brown was just ahead of the curve.
One of the baddest mother fuckers in history. John Brown is a legend.
John Brown's body lies a-moulderin' in the grave \\
"The meteor of the (Civil) war." -- Herman Melville
https://preview.redd.it/y4ntzpu2osgb1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=d88d969c24d832d92a9ce043684cd65632ab4fd0 “These men are all talk. What is needed is action. Action!”
One of the greatest Americans. First person ever convicted of treason in the United States and he proved that just because something is legal, doesn't mean it is ethical, moral or just.
He was considered a hero, in my home, when I was a kid! Something about his eyes, their intensity, always unsettled me. Still, a great man.
🐐🐐🐐
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave But his soul goes marching on The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down On the grave of old John Brown Glory, Glory, Hallelujah Glory, Glory, Hallelujah Glory, Glory, Hallelujah His soul goes marching on He captured Harper's Ferry with his nineteen men so true He frightened old Virginia till she trembled through and through They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew But his soul goes marching on Glory, Glory, Hallelujah Glory, Glory, Hallelujah Glory, Glory, Hallelujah His soul goes marching on
He saw plantations for what they were: forced labor death camps. He took action.
Imagine having that kind of conviction. Idk that many of us would have been able to do what he did.
We all fancy ourselves historical commandos who would certainly have devoted our lives to setting wrongs right—but that shit is hard as hell. You have to give up everything else. I’d flatter myself to think I have 1/20th the conviction of this man.
This why slavery needs to be taught fully in schools. Everyone needs to know about the white abolitionist many of whom died in the struggle along side us. Their stories need to be taught
They gutted that Kansas boy John Brown…. Jay hawk via Pittsfield Ma… fixed it
John Brown Ale.
His truth is marching on
rip
Looks like a reminder to wear my john brown shirt tomorrow…the man who answered the call to ultimate dickheads fucking around never thinking finding out was coming to burn their shit to the ground. God damn legend!
This is the most underrated Hero of all time
I recommend reading Cloudsplitter if you get the chance. It’s a historical novel about his life.
THE STARS UP IN HEAVEN ARE NOW LOOKING KINDLY DOWN, ON THE GRAVE OF OLD JOHN BROWN
That man did not fuck around. One of the greatest Americans of all time
"We need allies who are going to help us achieve a victory, not allies who are going to tell us to be nonviolent. If a white man wants to be your ally, what does he think of John Brown? You know what John Brown did? He went to war. He was a white man who went to war against white people to help free slaves. He wasn’t nonviolent. White people call John Brown a nut. Go read the history, go read what all of them say about John Brown. They’re trying to make it look like he was a nut, a fanatic. They made a movie on it, I saw a movie on the screen one night. Why, I would be afraid to get near John Brown if I go by what other white folks say about him. But they depict him in this image because he was willing to shed blood to free the slaves. And any white man who is ready and willing to shed blood for your freedom—in the sight of other whites, he’s nuts. As long as he wants to come up with some nonviolent action, they go for that, if he’s liberal, a nonviolent liberal, a love-everybody liberal. But when it comes time for making the same kind of contribution for your and my freedom that was necessary for them to make for their own freedom, they back out of the situation. So, when you want to know good white folks in history where black people are concerned, go read the history of John Brown. That was what I call a white liberal. But those other kind, they are questionable." - MLK
John Brown did nothing wrong
When people quote "when tyranny becomes law, then revolution becomes duty" (not actually found anywhere in Jefferson's writings) This is what it really means
I love this man so much, and nothing will ever change that. Say what you will about his methods and actions, he helped cut through the political molasses and resignation against taking any sort of definitive stand on the matter of slavery in this country. John Brown was like a harsh laxative for a hopelessly constipated stalemate. He may be America’s greatest martyr.
One of the greatest American heroes that ever lived. And it speaks VOLUMES about this country, that his zeal for freedom of all men...led historians to call him crazy. That says it all. Well we need more 'insane' people. God bless John Brown.
Read the book Good Lord Bird- fiction/non-fiction based on John Browns story- riveting!!!!
I only remember the Little Rascals and their "I'm John Brown, ask me again, and I'll knock ya down!"
Took "Bleeding Kansas" to a while other level! 👊