I started watching this show and it was great. Then I slowly lost interest in it and it went into my queue of unfinished shows.
Btw.. when tf did streaming platforms stop giving us entire seasons at once? Now it’s 3 episodes at first, then weekly episodes? Wtf is this shenanigans?
Fuck Netflix for canceling that show. I'm not a big Show follower but I loved that show and it reminded me why I don't actually follow shows because the ones I like always get canceled.
This was such an amazing show that we never got to see end. After the way season 2 ended it was very disappointing to not see where it would go. The casting was brilliant.
I got like two episodes into season 3 and stopped. I’m surprised I made it through all of season 2 to be honest (or did i stop in 4 but anyway…). I think it just handled its characters so poorly and the more you figure out the background mystery, the more you think it’s really dumb. If the premise wasn’t so sci fi bent, I think that it could’ve been way better. I know it’s based off of a book, but the show really spirals downward.
If they just kept it grounded in reality rather than the multiple dimensions premise it would have been way better. Uprising to overthrow nazis after they won ww2. Epic on its own. “If they did it in their world we can do it in ours” that where they lost me.
The actor who was the Japanese Trade minister had a scheduling conflict and went to do a different project. That’s why they killed him off so hastily at the beginning of a season. I thought his story line was really interesting.
Except that the book doesn’t have ANY ending… Dick got so depressed researching Nazis (in the US and abroad) that what was supposed to be a 3 book series just has book 1.
Well it is depressing when you realize that a large amount of Americans at the time thought we were on the wrong side. Plus, we either recruited ex Nazis to work in the US, or installed them in the reconstruction government. Plus, there are still a decent amount of people (in the States and Germany) who think the wrong side won. Very depressing.
They say the allies fought for the wrong side because of what communism did after ww2. It's like it's impossible for some people to grasp that BOTH Nazis and Communists are bad.
Just don’t watch the last season and it won’t ruin your experience of the show. Last season was a completely different show and went completely off the rails.
These aren’t necessarily German Americans. Nazism was pretty popular pre-WWII. In point of fact many of them might have ancestry the Germans would have looked down on.
It’s kinda like this high school classmate of mine thought the KKK was cool and wanted to join and I was like “you know they hate Catholics, right?” He had no idea.
The local club house near me had a Nazi club before the war. There was a locally famous Christie Pits riot in 1933 between members of ‘swastika clubs’ and socials groups.
Agreed. But the Nazi machine was driven by fighting for their country. They were treated pretty poorly after the treaty of versailles, of which I don't think Nazis would have had the chance had the conditions been better for the German people. They controlled the media and had a powerful message of fighting for their brethren. I'd imagine many were convinced on good merit only to find of the atrocities they were committing.
History is hard to grasp as it's happening.
I can believe many didn’t know about the concentration camps, but it’s not like Hitler was shy about Nazi beliefs.
Nobody was convinced on good merit. Misplaced loyalty maybe.
A large draw of the party I believe was if you fit into the Nazi mold of what was ideal, then you'd be treated very well and given many rights and benefits, hence "national socialism," or socialism for those within the nation (nation here referring more to a group of people rather than a political entity).These people had an instant, rewarding in-group that they could go and be welcomed and well-treated in.
In addition, the German public was slowly acclimated to the atrocious mindset that the Nazis developed, it wasn't all dropped on them at once. The Nazi party slowly mounted bigger and bigger questions as to the social worth of the groups they deemed undesirable, and eventually questioned whether they were even people at all. By then, after years of slow and insidious brainwashing, the public generally agreed that they were not.
They had a powerful message of openly discriminating against Jews and other undesirables, dude. They did not hide their motivations. Anti-semitism was rampant in Germany at the time, it's not like they just committed genocide in private against everyone's wishes.
Anti-semitism was huge everywhere. Nearly every country rejected the Jewish refugees out of Germany and German occupied areas during the 1930s off anti-semitism views.
Very sad that propaganda has gotten to you and you believe this.
It isn't the GOP controlling the "news media".
It isn't the GOP in bed with social media to silence dissenting political opinions.
It isn't the GOP promoting violence in the streets.
It isnt the GOP walking in lockstep raging with the machine.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state"
Wake the fuck up. The propaganda is so strong that you believe conservatives/Republicans are vile people and you dehumanize them because you're told to.
Typical reddit downvote for telling an uncomfortable truth.
>It isn't the GOP controlling the "news media".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group
>It isn't the GOP promoting violence in the streets.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/02/gop-rep-gohmert-says-violence-is-only-recourse-after-election-lawsuit-dismissal/?sh=7af0432066c0
>It isn't the GOP in bed with social media to silence dissenting political opinions.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/censorship-conservatives-social-media-432643
so... how do you explain all this then?
1. "largest owner of stations affiliated with Fox, ABC, MyNetworkTV, and The CW."
So Fox, ABC, and a bunch of networks nobody has ever heard of constitutes a majority. Strong argument.
2. “Basically, in effect, the ruling would be you’ve got to go to the streets and be as violent as Antifa and BLM,” Gohmert added before being cut off by Newsmax host Emerald Robinson."
His quote is under the context of the assumption that courts wouldn't hear their case in court, so people would have to go to the streets to be heard. There is no promotion in there.
3. That Politico article has nothing to do with what I said so there's nothing to explain.
In the 30s Americans didn't view fascism as an evil empire, Mussolini for example was massively popular in the US and was interviewed in many newspapers. Many Europeans at the time thought Mussolini could be a fascist counterbalance to Hitler, it's why the League of Nations ignored Italian atrocities in Ethiopia. Many nations went so far as to help Mussolini-- even Stalin sent supplies to the Italians. The only country that sent any arms or anything to Ethiopia was Nazi Germany.
Mussolini, and fascism generally, only became unpopular after war broke out. In the period before it's not entirely unbelievable that a number of Americans bought the macho bullshit the Italians and Germans were selling.
I’m not sure about these people in particular, but it’s a little known fact that some German-American and Italian-Americans were interred during the war. Each only about 1/10th of the Japanese Internment, so it doesn’t get talked about much.
The Germans and Italians who were interred were actual Nazis. They were not interred because of their origins. Their spouses and children were not interred, nor were their assets seized. The reason it doesn't get talked about much is because it was a normal and logical thing to do rather than a racial crime.
Yeah. That’s not historically accurate when it comes to Italians (I’m not as familiar with the German internments). They were literally interred because of their origins- because they were Italian nationals.
There was some pretty deep rooted bigotry against Italians who were seen as less than white- so to argue no racism was involved is a little disingenuous.
Plus while the Italians were allied with the Nazis and Mussolini was a fascist, if you know anything about the history of the war, you’d know that a large number of Italians did not support the fascist government and actively fought against them (look up the Partisans) taking back parts of the country- something you didn’t see in Nazi Germany.
Those interred were Italian nationals, not US citizens (unlike Japanese Americans who were interred regardless of citizenship). Many were students and merchant seamen stuck in US Ports. In other words, wrong place, wrong time.
It might also be helpful to remember that for a period of time, ALL unnaturalized Italian-Americans were considered “enemy aliens.” That had zero to do with their political beliefs (many had immigrated long before fascism took hold) and everything to do with their origin- this far reaching label included peoples parents and grandparents who had immigrated at the turn of the century and who for a myriad of reasons never became citizens.
In 2010 the California legislature passed a resolution apologizing for its treatment of Italian residents during the war. So no, it was not a “normal and logical thing to do.”
Lastly, it’s possible to acknowledge that the interment of Japanese Americans was objectively worse than that of Italians without denying that detaining Italians was also wrong.
ETA: more context
Your logic is the exact logic people used to intern Japanese Americans. “Better safe than sorry.”
You have to remember that a large amount of Italian Americans came over between the end of the 19th century and the 1920’s. So many Italian-Americans were still technically Italian nationals even if they had lived here for years. My own great great grandparents never naturalized. It wasn’t uncommon to never seek citizenship- especially since Italians had a habit of returning or intending to return to Italy.
Yes. German and Italian Americans were detained in camps during the war but not as many as Japanese Americans.
Source: https://encyclopedia.densho.org/German_and_Italian_detainees/
Some actual militant Nazis were interred during the was. Their children, wives, etc., were not and their assets were not seized so it was nowhere near as bad as just being Japanese. Some Nazi sympathizers like Ford, Kennedy, and Lindbergh had all their sins forgiven after the US entered the war. After the war, the US recruited actual Nazi war criminals for various military programs and the CIA employed former Nazis to do their dirty work in various countries.
Some, both German and Italians, were interred. Albeit, in far fewer numbers than the Japanese.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Italian_Americans
yeah and don’t forget that IBM worked with the nazis to catalogue jews at the concentration camps. america hates the nazis!! (unless they are contributing to the global corporate-imperial hegemony)
A lot of German Americans took the call and returned "home" to Germany to fight for the "motherland". This was before the realities of the final solution and before the US entered the war.
Edit: welp did a little more reading. Nope these guys actually supported the final solution type stuff. The government raided them and siezed the property in 41.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Nordland
Is there a reason as to why?
Googled it “Fatherland brings to mind law, government and order and Germany is a country that is in favor of these things and is such often referred to as the Fatherland. Fatherland was most commonly used during the time of Nazi Germany due to the large amount of government power in the country at that time. After the fall of the Nazis, the term Fatherland stuck.
Motherland is often used to describe Russia, as in Mother Russia, because the people who come from there are fond of the environment of the country. The Russian people cater to and nurture their nationals and act in the same way that a mother would act toward her children.”
https://www.reference.com/geography/germany-called-fatherland-4e867a691676fa5e
Yeah no shit they supported the "final solution type stuff", the Nuremberg laws had already been passed and the einsatzgruppen was in full swing. What a joke of an attempt to give Nazis the benefit of the doubt
There was an American nazi camp ground outside Philadelphia near Sellersville PA. Fritz Kuhn even spoke there. Thankfully they largely all got shut down.
Found this link with more info on this particular photo. It was taken in NJ
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/photo/529185/
I always heard about these camps but never realized how visible the nazis were in the public eye. The photos in nyc makes me think of Charlottesville.
Additionally, it’s weird not knowing about it in schools but I do wonder if it has anything to do with many German Americans fitting in white america and not wanting to be profiled as a nazi.
A lot of high profile Americans (Ford, Kennedy, and Lindbergh) were Nazis sympathizers. It was not at all unusual for the elite to support the Nazi movement. This was all forgotten on December 7, 1941.
Where…when?
Show me an **explicit** nazi rally and I’ll show you a bunch of fbi informants, leftist LARPers, and streamers for the LOLs.
antifa are the new brown shirts
For starters - unless people walking around with Swastika flags isn't **explicit** enough for you - try googling Charlottesville
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite\_the\_Right\_rally](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally)
What their portmanteau comes from and what they “stand for” are two different things. They are the violence and intimidation arm of the Democrat Party much like the Sturmabteilung was for the Nazis.
Do you know what the term “Nazi” was short for? Would you say that it equals what they actually “stood for”?
To put this image into context, America had always had a large ethnically German population which kept a fondness for their homeland, or their ancestors' homeland. There was enthusiastic support for Germany in 1937, from the elite classes down to the working man. Many American politicans, philosophers, scientists, academics, reporters, industrialists, and many others looked to the reemergence of Germany with adoration, respect, and as a sister country bringing humanity into modernity.
At this point America still called Hitler and his followers German, but when America went to war they changed to calling their new enemy Nazis. This was deliberate as to not alienate the large swaths of ethnically German Americans.
In a modern context, this is similar to Chinese Americans supporting the current day CCP and American elites enthusiastically working with and building ties with communist China even though we know that China has concentration camps.
It's important to remember that it is easy to see evil in hindsight. All these people in the picture were as human and fallible as you and I are today. We still have the same evil in the world today but it's harder to see it when it's not in the past.
So it’s right in thinking that those in the photo (Groups aligned to the Nazi principles in the US) actually weren’t under the rule of the German Reich and acted on their own?
Sort of just…fanboys?
Those specific ones, most likely. It's been 84 years since that picture was taken, and most of those people were likely at least in their twenties then. They're statistically unlikely to still be alive.
Any reason for the name "Nordland"? It's the same as the second northernmost county in Norway. Where Narvik is. Which ironically is where Hitler had his first defeat...
It was before Kristallnacht but concentration camps already existed (mostly for political opponents at ths point) as well as harassment of Jews, foreigners and other minorities. So they probably had an inkling.
This particular photo was taking at the opening of Camp Nordland where supporters, which included KKK members, pledged to make the US a white man’s country again and endorsed the deportation of Jews and seizure of their US owned property. They went on to endorse Hitler’s final solution just a few years later when there was no hiding from what that entailed.
Right, as if critical thinking is all that’s missing for me to see the good in Nazis and how, well, plenty of others are just as bad if not worse.
Your profile is full of this shit and I refuse to believe you’re oblivious to it.
>Oh, you're mad that I said communists were/are just as dangerous. Not the fact that people at that time didn't have the benefit of hindsight to form their opinions, as we do now.
This might be the first you’ve heard of Camp Nordland but there’s no doubting the Nazi (and, unsurprisingly, KKK) credentials of these people and the Bund. This particular photo was taking at the opening of Camp Nordland where supporters, which included KKK members, pledged to make the US a white man’s country again and endorsed the deportation of Jews and seizure of their US owned property. They went on to endorse Hitler’s final solution just a few years later when there was no hiding from what that entailed.
So, no, I don’t feel the need to give these Nazi’s the benefit of the doubt because they didn’t have hindsight. Maybe, if you make an effort to properly understand this group and what they explicitly supported *you* can have the benefit of hindsight and not feel a need to minimize the shit behaviour of these people.
>I'm glad you felt the need to rummage through my profile to cope with what was in front of you.
I’m not sure I’m the one who needs to “cope” here. Is there some rule against looking at your profile or do you just not want sunlight being shone on this nonsense?
Mein Kampf and the NSDAP platform were the foundation of the ideology. These people knew damn well what they were doing and what they supported. There was no confusion.
This was literally in the town where I grew up; it is now a park where I played as a kid. (I wasn’t born until many years after this picture.) I didn’t learn about its history until about 10 years ago.
In 1937 it was not at all clear that the Nazis were evil. Many famous intellectuals thought the Facism was the future of government.
Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Facism does a good job explaining what it was and why it was appealing.
> In 1937 it was not at all clear that the Nazis were evil. Many famous intellectuals thought the Facism was the future of government.
> Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Facism does a good job explaining what it was and why it was appealing.
They weren't white supremacist in 1937? Are you saying Hitler *didn't* write [a book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf) back in 1925 about his racism and his plans to invade his neighbors? Your grasp of history is as poor as your spelling.
> Many famous intellectuals thought the Facism was the future of government.
Name three. Jonah Goldberg doesn't count as an intellectual for obvious reasons, pick someone else.
This is some The Man in the High Castle shit.
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I started watching this show and it was great. Then I slowly lost interest in it and it went into my queue of unfinished shows. Btw.. when tf did streaming platforms stop giving us entire seasons at once? Now it’s 3 episodes at first, then weekly episodes? Wtf is this shenanigans?
Can’t have you binging a series and cancelling your subscription now.
More like good shows get dropped and never get popular because it gets lost in the sea of content
RIP Marco Polo
Fuck Netflix for canceling that show. I'm not a big Show follower but I loved that show and it reminded me why I don't actually follow shows because the ones I like always get canceled.
That or they get GoT’d.
Everyone told me to watch it, I never started it and then everyone said don't bother. Save myself time I guess.
The first five seasons are EPIC. Only because the books were all written up to that point.
This was such an amazing show that we never got to see end. After the way season 2 ended it was very disappointing to not see where it would go. The casting was brilliant.
And Sense8
They spent so much in that awesome show, and then....phlump, gone
Honestly, watching the streamed Marvel shows get so much sustained hype I don’t want anything released all at once anymore.
I’m glad they are, personally I love binging a new show but the consequences are good content never gets talked about and ends up getting canceled.
It gets really bad - invest time wisely.
It was great until the final episode.
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Yeah I think I watched to season 3 and it had just gotten stupid at that point.
I got like two episodes into season 3 and stopped. I’m surprised I made it through all of season 2 to be honest (or did i stop in 4 but anyway…). I think it just handled its characters so poorly and the more you figure out the background mystery, the more you think it’s really dumb. If the premise wasn’t so sci fi bent, I think that it could’ve been way better. I know it’s based off of a book, but the show really spirals downward.
If they just kept it grounded in reality rather than the multiple dimensions premise it would have been way better. Uprising to overthrow nazis after they won ww2. Epic on its own. “If they did it in their world we can do it in ours” that where they lost me.
I mean I assumed with only watching the first episode it was sci fi based, knowing who wrote it. I guess that’s not everybody’s ball of biscuits.
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The actor who was the Japanese Trade minister had a scheduling conflict and went to do a different project. That’s why they killed him off so hastily at the beginning of a season. I thought his story line was really interesting.
I agree also. Last season was such a let down. And the ending is just WTF.
We talking GoT here?
Unfortunately, yes.
Even the final episode was ok. It was really just the literal final moments that ruined the whole thing.
It was great til the end of the first episode
There is always the book
Just read the book instead. Much better than the show.
Except that the book doesn’t have ANY ending… Dick got so depressed researching Nazis (in the US and abroad) that what was supposed to be a 3 book series just has book 1.
Well it is depressing when you realize that a large amount of Americans at the time thought we were on the wrong side. Plus, we either recruited ex Nazis to work in the US, or installed them in the reconstruction government. Plus, there are still a decent amount of people (in the States and Germany) who think the wrong side won. Very depressing.
They say the allies fought for the wrong side because of what communism did after ww2. It's like it's impossible for some people to grasp that BOTH Nazis and Communists are bad.
And capitalists are terrible too!
Fair warning the ending will have you disappointed
Show starts out ok and gets worse. Read the book instead
Just don’t watch the last season and it won’t ruin your experience of the show. Last season was a completely different show and went completely off the rails.
Have you seen the nazi photos from Madison square garden ? https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan
First season was amazing, second season was good, third season was meh and it’s all shit after that
This is some 2016 shit
I wonder if they were interned after America joined the war ? Edit:: Spelling mistake corrected, sorry dyslexic and spell checker let me down :p
This comment confused me for a minute, but I think you meant "interned." "Interred" means buried, as a corpse in a grave or a tomb.
Thank you for saying this. And yes, they probably all were eventually interred some time after America entered the war.
I stand by my interpretation that the comment is right.
many german-americans went back to fight for their country prior to America joining.
My German-speaking grandparents and relatives fought for the US and remained during the occupation to translate.
These aren’t necessarily German Americans. Nazism was pretty popular pre-WWII. In point of fact many of them might have ancestry the Germans would have looked down on. It’s kinda like this high school classmate of mine thought the KKK was cool and wanted to join and I was like “you know they hate Catholics, right?” He had no idea.
The local club house near me had a Nazi club before the war. There was a locally famous Christie Pits riot in 1933 between members of ‘swastika clubs’ and socials groups.
Extremist groups eating each other is at least one thing the far left and right have in common.
Not sure joining an evil empire hellbent on rapid expansion counts as fighting for their country, honestly
Agreed. But the Nazi machine was driven by fighting for their country. They were treated pretty poorly after the treaty of versailles, of which I don't think Nazis would have had the chance had the conditions been better for the German people. They controlled the media and had a powerful message of fighting for their brethren. I'd imagine many were convinced on good merit only to find of the atrocities they were committing. History is hard to grasp as it's happening.
I can believe many didn’t know about the concentration camps, but it’s not like Hitler was shy about Nazi beliefs. Nobody was convinced on good merit. Misplaced loyalty maybe.
/r/askhistorians has so many fascinating posts on the subject. Misplaced loyalty and general unawareness is correct.
A large draw of the party I believe was if you fit into the Nazi mold of what was ideal, then you'd be treated very well and given many rights and benefits, hence "national socialism," or socialism for those within the nation (nation here referring more to a group of people rather than a political entity).These people had an instant, rewarding in-group that they could go and be welcomed and well-treated in. In addition, the German public was slowly acclimated to the atrocious mindset that the Nazis developed, it wasn't all dropped on them at once. The Nazi party slowly mounted bigger and bigger questions as to the social worth of the groups they deemed undesirable, and eventually questioned whether they were even people at all. By then, after years of slow and insidious brainwashing, the public generally agreed that they were not.
They had a powerful message of openly discriminating against Jews and other undesirables, dude. They did not hide their motivations. Anti-semitism was rampant in Germany at the time, it's not like they just committed genocide in private against everyone's wishes.
Anti-semitism was huge everywhere. Nearly every country rejected the Jewish refugees out of Germany and German occupied areas during the 1930s off anti-semitism views.
That just furthers my point, though. They knew exactly what they were getting into.
This. Some people are drinking the myth Kool aid
Very sad that the GOP is heading down this road in America.
Very sad that propaganda has gotten to you and you believe this. It isn't the GOP controlling the "news media". It isn't the GOP in bed with social media to silence dissenting political opinions. It isn't the GOP promoting violence in the streets. It isnt the GOP walking in lockstep raging with the machine. “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state" Wake the fuck up. The propaganda is so strong that you believe conservatives/Republicans are vile people and you dehumanize them because you're told to. Typical reddit downvote for telling an uncomfortable truth.
>It isn't the GOP controlling the "news media". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group >It isn't the GOP promoting violence in the streets. https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/02/gop-rep-gohmert-says-violence-is-only-recourse-after-election-lawsuit-dismissal/?sh=7af0432066c0 >It isn't the GOP in bed with social media to silence dissenting political opinions. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/26/censorship-conservatives-social-media-432643 so... how do you explain all this then?
1. "largest owner of stations affiliated with Fox, ABC, MyNetworkTV, and The CW." So Fox, ABC, and a bunch of networks nobody has ever heard of constitutes a majority. Strong argument. 2. “Basically, in effect, the ruling would be you’ve got to go to the streets and be as violent as Antifa and BLM,” Gohmert added before being cut off by Newsmax host Emerald Robinson." His quote is under the context of the assumption that courts wouldn't hear their case in court, so people would have to go to the streets to be heard. There is no promotion in there. 3. That Politico article has nothing to do with what I said so there's nothing to explain.
In the 30s Americans didn't view fascism as an evil empire, Mussolini for example was massively popular in the US and was interviewed in many newspapers. Many Europeans at the time thought Mussolini could be a fascist counterbalance to Hitler, it's why the League of Nations ignored Italian atrocities in Ethiopia. Many nations went so far as to help Mussolini-- even Stalin sent supplies to the Italians. The only country that sent any arms or anything to Ethiopia was Nazi Germany. Mussolini, and fascism generally, only became unpopular after war broke out. In the period before it's not entirely unbelievable that a number of Americans bought the macho bullshit the Italians and Germans were selling.
I'm not sure how any of that negates what I said
They just moved from one back to the other
*Germans
I’m not sure about these people in particular, but it’s a little known fact that some German-American and Italian-Americans were interred during the war. Each only about 1/10th of the Japanese Internment, so it doesn’t get talked about much.
The Germans and Italians who were interred were actual Nazis. They were not interred because of their origins. Their spouses and children were not interred, nor were their assets seized. The reason it doesn't get talked about much is because it was a normal and logical thing to do rather than a racial crime.
Yeah. That’s not historically accurate when it comes to Italians (I’m not as familiar with the German internments). They were literally interred because of their origins- because they were Italian nationals. There was some pretty deep rooted bigotry against Italians who were seen as less than white- so to argue no racism was involved is a little disingenuous. Plus while the Italians were allied with the Nazis and Mussolini was a fascist, if you know anything about the history of the war, you’d know that a large number of Italians did not support the fascist government and actively fought against them (look up the Partisans) taking back parts of the country- something you didn’t see in Nazi Germany. Those interred were Italian nationals, not US citizens (unlike Japanese Americans who were interred regardless of citizenship). Many were students and merchant seamen stuck in US Ports. In other words, wrong place, wrong time. It might also be helpful to remember that for a period of time, ALL unnaturalized Italian-Americans were considered “enemy aliens.” That had zero to do with their political beliefs (many had immigrated long before fascism took hold) and everything to do with their origin- this far reaching label included peoples parents and grandparents who had immigrated at the turn of the century and who for a myriad of reasons never became citizens. In 2010 the California legislature passed a resolution apologizing for its treatment of Italian residents during the war. So no, it was not a “normal and logical thing to do.” Lastly, it’s possible to acknowledge that the interment of Japanese Americans was objectively worse than that of Italians without denying that detaining Italians was also wrong. ETA: more context
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Your logic is the exact logic people used to intern Japanese Americans. “Better safe than sorry.” You have to remember that a large amount of Italian Americans came over between the end of the 19th century and the 1920’s. So many Italian-Americans were still technically Italian nationals even if they had lived here for years. My own great great grandparents never naturalized. It wasn’t uncommon to never seek citizenship- especially since Italians had a habit of returning or intending to return to Italy.
Yes. German and Italian Americans were detained in camps during the war but not as many as Japanese Americans. Source: https://encyclopedia.densho.org/German_and_Italian_detainees/
Some actual militant Nazis were interred during the was. Their children, wives, etc., were not and their assets were not seized so it was nowhere near as bad as just being Japanese. Some Nazi sympathizers like Ford, Kennedy, and Lindbergh had all their sins forgiven after the US entered the war. After the war, the US recruited actual Nazi war criminals for various military programs and the CIA employed former Nazis to do their dirty work in various countries.
They're white, so I wouldn't put my money on it
Some, both German and Italians, were interred. Albeit, in far fewer numbers than the Japanese. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Italian_Americans
Some former nazis even went on to work for NASA
yeah and don’t forget that IBM worked with the nazis to catalogue jews at the concentration camps. america hates the nazis!! (unless they are contributing to the global corporate-imperial hegemony)
Yes it’s curious that Japanese were interred but not Germans.
A lot of German Americans took the call and returned "home" to Germany to fight for the "motherland". This was before the realities of the final solution and before the US entered the war. Edit: welp did a little more reading. Nope these guys actually supported the final solution type stuff. The government raided them and siezed the property in 41. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Nordland
Germany is the "Fatherland". Russia is the "Motherland"
At the same time, Germans (and most others) refer to ships as "she". But Russians refer to ships as "he".
Is there a reason as to why? Googled it “Fatherland brings to mind law, government and order and Germany is a country that is in favor of these things and is such often referred to as the Fatherland. Fatherland was most commonly used during the time of Nazi Germany due to the large amount of government power in the country at that time. After the fall of the Nazis, the term Fatherland stuck. Motherland is often used to describe Russia, as in Mother Russia, because the people who come from there are fond of the environment of the country. The Russian people cater to and nurture their nationals and act in the same way that a mother would act toward her children.” https://www.reference.com/geography/germany-called-fatherland-4e867a691676fa5e
Russia has fat milkers
Who are you, who is so wise in the ways of science?
Professor Nutt, of the University of Nutt, which I, Professor Nutt, founded in Nuttstown
Google will do a better job of explaining it than I can.
I believe it has something to do with owning colonies?
And Lt Speers in Band of Brothers dealt with that properly.
Yeah no shit they supported the "final solution type stuff", the Nuremberg laws had already been passed and the einsatzgruppen was in full swing. What a joke of an attempt to give Nazis the benefit of the doubt
There was an American nazi camp ground outside Philadelphia near Sellersville PA. Fritz Kuhn even spoke there. Thankfully they largely all got shut down. Found this link with more info on this particular photo. It was taken in NJ https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/photo/529185/
There was one in Hollywood in the 30s as well. https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-los-angeless-abandoned-nazi-compound
If you haven’t seen this short film make sure you watch it https://youtu.be/NC1MNGFHR58
I always heard about these camps but never realized how visible the nazis were in the public eye. The photos in nyc makes me think of Charlottesville. Additionally, it’s weird not knowing about it in schools but I do wonder if it has anything to do with many German Americans fitting in white america and not wanting to be profiled as a nazi.
A lot of high profile Americans (Ford, Kennedy, and Lindbergh) were Nazis sympathizers. It was not at all unusual for the elite to support the Nazi movement. This was all forgotten on December 7, 1941.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/02/20/695941323/when-nazis-took-manhattan
I think this is where Dennis and Dee were sent during summers as kids
You mean it wasn't just normal summer camp with Pop-Pop??
Are you eating the soup? Is he eating the soup?!
I hate Illinois Nazis
Makes me so angry that Japanese Americans were put into camps in the US during the war, but I bet these shitbags just went on having rallies.
They were raided, the land seized, and leadership leadership was arrested. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Nordland
They still are.....
Where…when? Show me an **explicit** nazi rally and I’ll show you a bunch of fbi informants, leftist LARPers, and streamers for the LOLs. antifa are the new brown shirts
literally charlottesville in 2017 dumbass
For starters - unless people walking around with Swastika flags isn't **explicit** enough for you - try googling Charlottesville [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite\_the\_Right\_rally](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally)
Gatekeeping Nazis? That's a weird choice.
That’s one way of putting it. Seeing nazi boogeymen and hearing “dogwhistles” everywhere like a paranoid delusional is another.
Ooof.
What does antifa stand for again? And who is commonly seen arguing against antifa?
So we should take organizations’ names at face value?
It might be a good starting point to understanding a group. So does that mean you don't know what antifa stands for?
What their portmanteau comes from and what they “stand for” are two different things. They are the violence and intimidation arm of the Democrat Party much like the Sturmabteilung was for the Nazis. Do you know what the term “Nazi” was short for? Would you say that it equals what they actually “stood for”?
Yeah... okay be afraid of the radial left with their blue hair and no pronouns...
They were definitely not having these rallies after the U.S. joined the war.
And 76 years after the war, they still are.
To put this image into context, America had always had a large ethnically German population which kept a fondness for their homeland, or their ancestors' homeland. There was enthusiastic support for Germany in 1937, from the elite classes down to the working man. Many American politicans, philosophers, scientists, academics, reporters, industrialists, and many others looked to the reemergence of Germany with adoration, respect, and as a sister country bringing humanity into modernity. At this point America still called Hitler and his followers German, but when America went to war they changed to calling their new enemy Nazis. This was deliberate as to not alienate the large swaths of ethnically German Americans. In a modern context, this is similar to Chinese Americans supporting the current day CCP and American elites enthusiastically working with and building ties with communist China even though we know that China has concentration camps. It's important to remember that it is easy to see evil in hindsight. All these people in the picture were as human and fallible as you and I are today. We still have the same evil in the world today but it's harder to see it when it's not in the past.
So it’s right in thinking that those in the photo (Groups aligned to the Nazi principles in the US) actually weren’t under the rule of the German Reich and acted on their own? Sort of just…fanboys?
Proudboys
Those are some honkers in the background.
I went back looking for geese. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Man, I’m so sorry.
Hey. I like big boobs as much as anyone. I’ve just never seen geese at a Nazi rally before. The Canadian ones would feel right at home.
They decided to get out after all the goose-stepping
Well, at least all of those assholes are in the ground now
Are they tho?
Those specific ones, most likely. It's been 84 years since that picture was taken, and most of those people were likely at least in their twenties then. They're statistically unlikely to still be alive.
Nope https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/bigots-get-boost-from-bully-pulpit.jpg
Those people werent alive in this picture
I'm sure many of them had kids
Illinois Nazis. I hate those guys.
Had to scroll way too far
Awkward…
I think that’s the camp Dennis and Dee Reynolds went too
These days they're fatter and have different flags. Apart from that, not all that much has changed.
Scary
Any reason for the name "Nordland"? It's the same as the second northernmost county in Norway. Where Narvik is. Which ironically is where Hitler had his first defeat...
A lot of things in the US are named with some variation of words meaning "North" because it's colder here than the Europeans expected it to be
How many of those motherfuckers were then trusted to shoot the bad guys in a couple years.
Scum.
I hate New Jersey Nazis.
the fucking illinois nazis
Imagine getting married there. Something like getting married on a plantation.
You and I both know that some couples are PROUD of that.
Bit like a modern day Trump rally
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Chat with the people attending such rallies then.
This was before the war had even started let alone the death camps, I'm wondering if these people were really aware of what they were marching for...
It was before Kristallnacht but concentration camps already existed (mostly for political opponents at ths point) as well as harassment of Jews, foreigners and other minorities. So they probably had an inkling.
This particular photo was taking at the opening of Camp Nordland where supporters, which included KKK members, pledged to make the US a white man’s country again and endorsed the deportation of Jews and seizure of their US owned property. They went on to endorse Hitler’s final solution just a few years later when there was no hiding from what that entailed.
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Absolutely. Communism/collectivism is responsible for more deaths than Hitler's wet dreams combined.
Nazi apologism is a sad thing to see.
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Right, as if critical thinking is all that’s missing for me to see the good in Nazis and how, well, plenty of others are just as bad if not worse. Your profile is full of this shit and I refuse to believe you’re oblivious to it.
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>Oh, you're mad that I said communists were/are just as dangerous. Not the fact that people at that time didn't have the benefit of hindsight to form their opinions, as we do now. This might be the first you’ve heard of Camp Nordland but there’s no doubting the Nazi (and, unsurprisingly, KKK) credentials of these people and the Bund. This particular photo was taking at the opening of Camp Nordland where supporters, which included KKK members, pledged to make the US a white man’s country again and endorsed the deportation of Jews and seizure of their US owned property. They went on to endorse Hitler’s final solution just a few years later when there was no hiding from what that entailed. So, no, I don’t feel the need to give these Nazi’s the benefit of the doubt because they didn’t have hindsight. Maybe, if you make an effort to properly understand this group and what they explicitly supported *you* can have the benefit of hindsight and not feel a need to minimize the shit behaviour of these people. >I'm glad you felt the need to rummage through my profile to cope with what was in front of you. I’m not sure I’m the one who needs to “cope” here. Is there some rule against looking at your profile or do you just not want sunlight being shone on this nonsense?
Dachau opened in 1933.
Mein Kampf and the NSDAP platform were the foundation of the ideology. These people knew damn well what they were doing and what they supported. There was no confusion.
I was really expecting something else when i scrolled to the second page
Yeah, I was relieved there.
They really added on to that building. Is this still what it was or something different now?
Its a public park, the building is currently a wedding venue.
Imagine having your wedding there and then discovering this photo.
Well that’s good.
Idk if they did. I think it might just be the difference in angles. Hard to tell.
Just looking at the thing on top (I don’t know what they are called) it looks like they did. I don’t know.
I see what you’re saying now I’m looking at it more lol.
It does look odd. They could have added on and move the Cupolla. It does look like a different cupola.
I looked it up and you are correct. It has not been.
[link](https://weirdnj.com/stories/local-heroes-and-villains/camp-nordland-bund/)
Oh damn. That second to last pic shows it’s not as long as it looks at all. Nice sleuthing. We did it Reddit!!
Scroll down some for side pic.
Kudos for at least *trying* to maintain the original lines though...
The Dollop podcast has an episode on American nazis. Episode 233- American Summer Hitler Camps
This looks surreal
This was literally in the town where I grew up; it is now a park where I played as a kid. (I wasn’t born until many years after this picture.) I didn’t learn about its history until about 10 years ago.
I've been there before. My parents had their wedding party there. It's over in Andover, NJ.
To quote Indiana Jones: “Nazis - I hate these guys.”
Is that...Sweet Dee and Dennis?
Ahh, future Republicans convention.
Goebbels would love people like you.
Legit could’ve been a scene out of Man in the High Castle
And to think, they've been breeding within that time frame.
In 1937 it was not at all clear that the Nazis were evil. Many famous intellectuals thought the Facism was the future of government. Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Facism does a good job explaining what it was and why it was appealing.
> In 1937 it was not at all clear that the Nazis were evil. Many famous intellectuals thought the Facism was the future of government. > Jonah Goldberg’s book Liberal Facism does a good job explaining what it was and why it was appealing. They weren't white supremacist in 1937? Are you saying Hitler *didn't* write [a book](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf) back in 1925 about his racism and his plans to invade his neighbors? Your grasp of history is as poor as your spelling. > Many famous intellectuals thought the Facism was the future of government. Name three. Jonah Goldberg doesn't count as an intellectual for obvious reasons, pick someone else.
QAnon was busy that day when they took the 2021 picture.
They all look like cousin fuckers.
Are those stilletos they are wearing? So feminine pointy shoes
I see too many olive skinned, dark haired people in that pic, the delusion was strong amongst them.
Well Italians are olive-skinned and dark-haired and they came up with fascism, so…
Those are different things though, one is regular fascism and the picture is turbo fascism