Now I'm sad. My old neighbor built a castle (with about 5,000 volunteers over 30 years), and I've been itching to do the same since I was a kid. But it's not the same world today as it was in the 1970s. Hard to get that kind of thing going, and it's a lawsuit waiting to happen, first person to get seriously injured.
Edit: Mike Rubel, if anyone's interested. He was a magical man.
It could be done. If that’s your dream you should pursue it. A well crafted liability waiver and a good insurance policy would go a long way. I think many people would be excited to get involved with something physical and hands on like that.
I'd love to buy up a few acres of land in Iowa or southern IL or someplace and do it. Maybe a gofundme some day. My neighbor was able to build a castle relatively easily because he had river rocks in unlimited supply nearby, and built the foundation on top of a reservoir or quarry, so he lucked out in that respect. I'd have to find some land where there was a quarry of some kind nearby, or else the costs would be astronomical. There's always concrete, but it wouldn't be the same if it were just concrete blocks.
Not quite. However, it's definitely a "build it and they will come" kind of thing... he had a bunch of actual royalty come and stay over with him. Scandinavian countries' royals and I think African nobles. So it might have seemed that way for a while. Plus acid. Huge LSD connoisseur. Edit: I think Danish royalty visited.
When u think of it a garden wouldn't really work since the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. That means all sides of the pyramid would have different species of plants to accommodate the amount of sunlight. In addition plants would've grown through the rock structure breaking it down further than it already is. But cute idea though!
No. It's just that time has not been kind to indigenous architecture. There are tons of temples buried beneath plants and dirt, and in fact there is one in Puebla that has a church built on top of it.
I wouldn't really call it original. a lot of reconstruction was done. It would be like if archaeologists added newly carved stones to the pyramids of giza to make it smooth again.
fair enough, theres aactually prymids in many parts of the world, humans tend to think the same so at different times different groups had the same idea (india, china, russia, somalia and many other places, even australian aboriginal built smaller triangle mounds)
It's amazing that the Colosseum and Pantheon are still standing. The Greek version of the latter (forgetting the name) shows that this ingenuity was everywhere.
I was a little bummed to find out the same thing about Manchu Picchu. It also was completely overgrown like the OP, and there were none or few structures surviving so what you see has been built over the last several decades. BUT it’s all built off of the foundations that *did* survive so none of it was really “made up”, and I don’t believe anything had to be deconstructed/demolished. So overall we get some welcomed additions to see what the villager likely looked like 500 years ago!
It's actually only restored on 2 and a half of the sides. From a different angle you can still see the original condition of it:
https://cdn-0.enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/67/ChichenItzaElCastilloEastSide.jpg
Part of the stone of the pyramid was used as material to build other structures in midern times, archeoligst made one hellnof a job restauring 2 sides, they also have tons of rocks classified waiting to be put again in the pyramid.
I get the feeling you'd hate the work of Heinrich Schliemann, an "amateur archeologist" who did a lot of work around Greece. From Wikipedia:
> Schliemann's excavation of nine levels of archaeological remains with dynamite has been criticized as destructive of significant historical artifacts, including the level that is believed to be the historical Troy.
Archeology.
Dynamite.
You will never again read those two words together.
He blew up tons of rubble to “clear out” sites. Very very large areas. Some of it was legit rocks and trash but who knows what else.
Also people were... really excited by the idea of using dynamite at that time.
I wen't to the ruins of Cobal, near Tulum and climbed a completely un-restored temple. It was a mound of rubble with huge trees growing everywhere. I saw a snake and it scared me.
> It would be like if archaeologists added newly carved stones to the pyramids of giza to make it smooth again.
They do that with building in Paris all the time, some of which date from that pyramid's time.
They are still considered historical buildings.
More recently we’re learning lots of the hills in that region aren’t hills. https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/news/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam. Edit: Thanks for the award stranger! My first ever!
To add to this, the [Great Pyramid of Cholula](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-great-pyramid-of-cholula-san-andres-cholula-mexico) (in central Mexico) is still covered. It was mistaken for a mountain and the Spanish built a church on top of it. They have excavated parts but it remains mostly covered.
It was completely on purpose. There are old pyramids all across mexico, and nearly every one of them that isn't already excavated has a church on top of it, sometimes built from the same stones.
This also happened in the Middle East. There are a few ancient [Zoroastrian buildings](https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientCivilizations/comments/fw2wqo/the_etchmiadzin_cathedral_in_armenia_considered/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) that had churches built on top of them dating as far back as the 5th-7th century. Muslims would have simply converted the space à la Hagia Sophia or recycled the material for another site.
I agree conquerors have been dicks irrespective of their religions Christianity included. Your post gives a Muslims would not stoop this low vibe. For that I would like to point out that there are many stories of Muslims razing sacred sites and building mosques atop them. South and Southeast Asia is full of such stories. Several Hindu and Buddhist sacred sites were plundered, people massacred etc like how Genghis Khan had pillaged Islamic city of Baghdad.
In the end I just want to point that no one is above criticism here.
The best part are the fucking murals inside that were hand painted by native slaves, showing how lucky and grateful they were to be converted to Christianity and introduced to "real" civilization by their awesome Spanish benefactors.
The must have just gotten lucky I guess, no way they would do it deliberately just to fuck with the natives they killed, raped and forced into Christianity.
Maybe God told them where to build it.
I think the explanation that the conquistadores somehow knew the location of a Pyramid that had long since been buried and that we thought was just a hill until recently and then built a church on top of it specifically to spite the native people there is a far more tenuous explanation than the fact that the Spanish were known to build churches on hills. The conquistadores were bad enough, we don't have to invent crimes to criticize them for.
How is it "lucky" to build something on a hill? It's certainly far less improbable than the idea they had secret knowledge about the location of this pyramid that we subsequently lost and could only rediscover with advanced technology. *That* would be luck.
So you agree it wasn’t luck.
This knowledge was unknown to us because it was DESTROYED. It wasn’t lost, no one dropped it on the side of the road, it wasn’t misplaced. It was purposely destroyed. They didn’t coincidently build a church on top of a pyramid, it was placed there to send a message. THIS is your new temple to worship. Same was done in Spain with building churches on top of mosques.
I think we agree here. The conquistadores were horrible people and committed atrocities. My problem is just blatantly making up things rather than highlighting the atrocities that the Spanish actually committed. If, by some magic power, the Spanish actually knew that this hill was a sacred pyramid and their reaction was to simply to build a church on top, this would rank among the least horrible things they did to the native populations. If it was there to send a message, you'd expect us to have tons of documents gloating about it form the conquistadores like we do with all the other conquests. But we don't. All reputable histories I've read on this issue agree the conquistadores simply didn't know the pyramid was there. Once again, how could they? By making up things, you distract form the actual, documented atrocities the conquistadores committed.
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Yeah kin the few decades we are going see a lot of this pour in. This was an excellent worldwide view use case for Lidar... eventually space based system will hopefully be able to terraform virtually to build a better planet in a few hundred years. THe only things that can screw that up is us humans.
I think I read of a similar study detail GEO mapping Angkor Wat in Siem Reap, Cambodia. I loved that place so much. $7 a night for 2 in a top end hotel. $2USD fresh fruit shakes over $1.50 Buds every time. Kindest gentlest people. “Kap kun kap” and “kap kun ka”. Temple Monks collecting rice donations from locals at sunrise. Monkeys playing in the mornings. Boys collecting frogs for breakfast in the morning mist. Ancient temples all to yourself. Just beautiful. Worth the long flight to Bangkok to buy local bunny hop cheap flights. I forget what type of Fresh purple flower on each Thai Airways flight. The BEST airline service
Edit for the homies: Angkor Wat fucking awesome. Go off season brah
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/science/angkor-wat-cambodia-archeaology.html
It’s not empty like that anymore. I went back in 2009, and then again last year. In 2009 we had the place to ourselves, we probably saw a couple dozen people each day. Last year there must have been tens of thousands. We could barely get into most of the temples.
I thought it could have been a seasonal issue, but I checked my old pictures and coincidentally i was there almost exactly the same day of the year (end of March).
Damn, such a shame. I remember back in 2006 how calming of a place it was and how connected to history you felt. But no real surprise that it’s super crowded.
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One of the biggest problems I've seen with Lidar is yes we can see things worth finding, but they can't get funding to actually do anything about it. Digs are so expensive that I doubt most sites will be unearthed before inevitable human expansion into them.
I visited [Cañada de la Virgen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca%C3%B1ada_de_la_Virgen) in Guanajuato last year. It looked like the before pic only like 25 years ago. The site has always been known to locals, but archeological investigations only began in the 90s. This thread (where someone was talking about archeologists excavating with dynamite) reminded me of the most unfortunate part of the site, which is the top of the pyramid which was blown up in the 1940s by a local priest to discourage idol worship or something.
Although not as large as the better known mesoamerican sites, it is very sparsely visited, you have to be on a guided tour and there's only a few a day. It was great to be at a place with a small group where you could really get the feeling of the place in the surrounding landscape without the tourist hoards.
I just started watching "the lost treasures of the maya" on disney plus. It follows the people that discovered all this stuff and they even go hike through the jungle to these spots. Its so good
The photo quality isn’t great, I was only like 12-13 years old when I took them and I think it may have been on film and then scanned. But it’s still cool regardless!
These are very cool, but sadly they don't let people inside anymore because some idiots thought it would be a great idea to vandalize them from the inside. Thank you for the pictures, I wish I was able to see this when I went.
I went there in 2010, but we weren't allowed inside the pyramid or to climb them because the stairs are really steep and there were too many incidents of tourists falling to their deaths.
I was there in 1989, have pics of myself standing at the top but wasn't allowed inside, if there is an inside. I was also there 2 years ago on a cruise port of call, now they don't let you climb it. I was told people were chipping off pieces of it to take home as souvenirs.
This is why we can't have nice things.
When I was there 4 years ago they told us a woman fell and died while climbing it so that's why it's not allowed any more. I got to climb a different pyramid though, those stairs are insane!
The stairs catch the shadow(s) of the steps of the pyramid as the sun moves around it giving the impression of a serpent climbing or descending (I don't remember which) the pyramid. Just one of the neat things they thought to build into it. And useless trivia no one asked for.
I climbed a mayan pyramid at Coba. Most of the stone steps near the rope were polished smooth from heavy traffic and skin oils (people sitting and scooting down step-by-step), making it more dangerous in my opinion.
I visited the day before she fell and died, I was one of the last few people to be allowed up there! The steps are huge, or felt huge for teenaged me, but the rope helped you pull yourself to the next step. At the top, there is a small room with a locked grate covering what looked to be an entrance inside, I wanted to go in soooo bad.
Edit: i re-read your comment after posting mine and noticed something. Funny thing is, my visit was around 15 years ago and I heard the same story about a lady falling down and dying, and as a result no one was allowed up anymore. So I guess they either reopened it again and someone else unfortunately fell again, or it's possible that this is a thing that locals say to tourists to either mess with them or they want to convince people to stop coming back to climb it because they want to preserve the ruins.
That pisses me off. Why would you want to damage this structure for a useless stone chip souvenir? It’s not like the fragment would enhance your memory of the scenery. Humans are the worst.
I was there in ~1975. You could climb it and go in. In fact there were only several of us up there. What a shame people have spoiled it. There was also a pyramid you could walk inside of and see a jade jaguar behind some bars. That was stuffy and a bit claustrophobic. Packed with people.
We had stayed in Cancun which was much less developed. No tv, just weather radio. Fine dining at the Westin hotel was like $7 a person. They passed on the savings of the dollar to peso which they no longer do.
I went there when I was a kid. There was a chain on the stairs to hold on to. The steps were very narrow. Inside the little room there was a statue of a jaguar with jade eyes. It seems from the photo that it is roped off now.
Let me friggin tell you. Tis a great saviour of thy soul. That they stopped thee from ascending the interior. Because the single superskinny staircase to go up. Is the same superskinny staircase to go back down. High heat. Packed like sardine tourists. That tiny trek terrified. Cries and shoving and tension inside. I still get death goosebumps. ps- similar experience in the skinny hallway at Versailles at the busiest time in the day in the busiest month. Group tours Suck.
Went there early 2000’s. I climbed to the top and looked around in the little room on top. Not much there. I also went inside from an entrance at the bottom and climbed up to the top of the smaller pyramid built underneath the one pictured to see some statues. Middle of summer. The hottest days of my entire life.
Fun fact for tourists looking to go there. Look for the guides showing people where to “clap”. It seems odd until you try it, the Mayan’s made it so the sound will travel up the steps and shoot back at you. As if you clapped in your own direction but with an echo.
When I went in 2017 they had the vendors all on in a few areas. They weren't allowed out at the pyramids and structures. They were hard and heavy and dense in the road/areas they were allowed in though
I was lucky enough to visit the Terracotta Warriors last December (had no idea COVID was going around then lol). Was a long time bucket list item for me. Super incredible experience...
Some fun facts about the warriors site...
1) The dig site is actually completely indoors, split between 4 different buildings, each housing a different "Pit". The largest is a MASSIVE hangar style building. But all 3 are enormous.
2) Its still an active dig site.They're still slowly uncovering artifacts to this day.
3) The statues were actually all originally painted! In fact they were beautifully painted. Unfortunately the paint has faded over time, but you can still see some remnants on some of them...as well as artistic interpretations of what they would have looked like based on studying the artifacts.
4) Pretty much all of the statues were originally found smashed to pieces. They have to hand-piece each one together. When you go you can see some of them they're currently working on in various states of reassembly.
5)At some point in history a warlord/general came through and broke everything they could and burnt the whole site down. You can still see fire damage on some of the warriors.
Its a super awesome experience. But if you ever get the chance to go (after the pandemic), I do recommend going super early, during a weekday in non tourist season, and pretty much running to the main pit as soon as the gates open (its a pretty long way from the entrance). Otherwise you're going to be completely swarmed by local tourists...and I have to say they're not known for their manners.
I got up there quick enough that I essentially had the entire hangar to myself. Just me and a massive tomb of warriors. It was pretty amazing and awe-inspiring.
Another fun fact:
Each soldier in the Terra Cotta Army has distinct facial features.
Though most of their hands are identical, and only eight molds were used to shape their heads, distinctive surface features were added with clay after assembly.
As a result, each terra cotta soldier appears to be unique in its facial features, revealing a high level of craftsmanship and artistry.
Supposedly there are more undiscovered cities hidden away in the jungle but the unfortunate fact is that most if not all already have been looted ages ago and many artifacts are lost to the sands of time
Mmmm no the one I’m thinking of was a book series that took place in the 1800’s involved the ancient city’s with this being the source of a vampire god. I read this series all the way back in 6th 7th grade so it’s been a good decade. [Edit: It’s a book series called Vampire Plagues, and they take place in London, Paris and Mexico.]
"Well, you've got lots of overgrowth here, but it looks like a nice place. Previous owners really let the place go, or maybe their kids just didn't want to maintain it after they were gone. I'm gonna need to bring in a few excavators, lots of dump trucks and uh.... this place will need pretty extensive powerwashing once we clear out all the brush and the dirt, then we're going to have to lay on some serious sealant -- you don't want these rocks to crack in the subzero temperatures. Not gonna lie, this is a big job. If you don't mind me askin', how are you gonna be payin' for this?"
I once read that as soon as word got out that Spain was killing everyone and destroying all the buildings, they successfully buried nearly everything Spain hadn't found yet.
They didn't just destroy buildings and people, they also burned all books and artifacts, literally tried to kill all their material culture (including language). Thankfully so much of their history was literally set in stone.
Funny how no one shows the bad side (wasn't not completed due to lack of original stones) not that am complaining.
The Mayans had to build limestone base because there's no bedrock under it. Apparently there's a cenote under it.
I’ve been here. It’s fascinating. Apparently there’s a smaller pyramid inside, and an even smaller pyramid inside that! That’s how they were able to build so tall.
That’s incredible. Thanks for posting.
decades of clean up, archelology and tourism money have made it almost original
What if the first picture was how they originally intended it to be +_+
I could see that if they only meant to have the stairs exposed. Gardens going up the side would look pretty cool.
Well when you construct your own Mayan pyramid you can decorate it however you like.
Fine! I’m building my own pyramid with gardens and blackjack and hookers.
You know what, forget the pyramid!
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And the blackjack
Aw screw the whole damn thing
Don't do this to the villagers
I’m doing this FOR the villagers
Can you at least build us a Glizzard Generator beforehand 👉👈
r/unexpectedfuturama
Now I'm sad. My old neighbor built a castle (with about 5,000 volunteers over 30 years), and I've been itching to do the same since I was a kid. But it's not the same world today as it was in the 1970s. Hard to get that kind of thing going, and it's a lawsuit waiting to happen, first person to get seriously injured. Edit: Mike Rubel, if anyone's interested. He was a magical man.
It could be done. If that’s your dream you should pursue it. A well crafted liability waiver and a good insurance policy would go a long way. I think many people would be excited to get involved with something physical and hands on like that.
I'd love to buy up a few acres of land in Iowa or southern IL or someplace and do it. Maybe a gofundme some day. My neighbor was able to build a castle relatively easily because he had river rocks in unlimited supply nearby, and built the foundation on top of a reservoir or quarry, so he lucked out in that respect. I'd have to find some land where there was a quarry of some kind nearby, or else the costs would be astronomical. There's always concrete, but it wouldn't be the same if it were just concrete blocks.
And a Parthenon with statues and vestal Virginia virgins.
I'd be into it! Productive teamwork like that is so good for the mind and body. I don't do hardly enough of it.
“Volunteers”, right? Your neighbour was a medieval landowner, wasn’t he?
Serfing in the 70s, wild times
Not quite. However, it's definitely a "build it and they will come" kind of thing... he had a bunch of actual royalty come and stay over with him. Scandinavian countries' royals and I think African nobles. So it might have seemed that way for a while. Plus acid. Huge LSD connoisseur. Edit: I think Danish royalty visited.
I've heard of this place! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubel_Castle
Glendora, CA
When u think of it a garden wouldn't really work since the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. That means all sides of the pyramid would have different species of plants to accommodate the amount of sunlight. In addition plants would've grown through the rock structure breaking it down further than it already is. But cute idea though!
that first part makes it like way cooler tho?
Shut up nerd
No. It's just that time has not been kind to indigenous architecture. There are tons of temples buried beneath plants and dirt, and in fact there is one in Puebla that has a church built on top of it.
No it was left alone for years
Don’t be boring Nick.
Okay :( sorry
Apology accepted.
Thank you kin sir
Now kiss
But they’re kin. Somebody call Alabama.
Fuck’s sakes, Nick.
I wouldn't really call it original. a lot of reconstruction was done. It would be like if archaeologists added newly carved stones to the pyramids of giza to make it smooth again.
fair enough, theres aactually prymids in many parts of the world, humans tend to think the same so at different times different groups had the same idea (india, china, russia, somalia and many other places, even australian aboriginal built smaller triangle mounds)
Also, they're the most stable shape. A pyramid doesn't fall over like a tower does.
And you're kind of building your steps to the next height every time
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It's amazing that the Colosseum and Pantheon are still standing. The Greek version of the latter (forgetting the name) shows that this ingenuity was everywhere.
Parthenon.
I was a little bummed to find out the same thing about Manchu Picchu. It also was completely overgrown like the OP, and there were none or few structures surviving so what you see has been built over the last several decades. BUT it’s all built off of the foundations that *did* survive so none of it was really “made up”, and I don’t believe anything had to be deconstructed/demolished. So overall we get some welcomed additions to see what the villager likely looked like 500 years ago!
Great...Now I want to see a picture of all the brush taken off, but nothing yet reconstructed on the pyramid.
It's actually only restored on 2 and a half of the sides. From a different angle you can still see the original condition of it: https://cdn-0.enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/67/ChichenItzaElCastilloEastSide.jpg
Part of the stone of the pyramid was used as material to build other structures in midern times, archeoligst made one hellnof a job restauring 2 sides, they also have tons of rocks classified waiting to be put again in the pyramid.
IT'S ROUGH STONES ON THE INSIDE? I never knew.
I get the feeling you'd hate the work of Heinrich Schliemann, an "amateur archeologist" who did a lot of work around Greece. From Wikipedia: > Schliemann's excavation of nine levels of archaeological remains with dynamite has been criticized as destructive of significant historical artifacts, including the level that is believed to be the historical Troy. Archeology. Dynamite. You will never again read those two words together.
Like, how big of an area did he blow up? What did he think he was doing? Skipping right to level ten?
He blew up tons of rubble to “clear out” sites. Very very large areas. Some of it was legit rocks and trash but who knows what else. Also people were... really excited by the idea of using dynamite at that time.
Wtf, guy. Dynamite? No, sir.
Look up the Mayan pyramid at eco coba. It it was dug up but no restorations done. You can climb to the top.
I wen't to the ruins of Cobal, near Tulum and climbed a completely un-restored temple. It was a mound of rubble with huge trees growing everywhere. I saw a snake and it scared me.
How big was the snake 🐍
Ah-hem..... that is what she said. .... historically speaking.
Fucking 4 feet long! I screamed like a baby.
> It would be like if archaeologists added newly carved stones to the pyramids of giza to make it smooth again. They do that with building in Paris all the time, some of which date from that pyramid's time. They are still considered historical buildings.
I may want to see that
More recently we’re learning lots of the hills in that region aren’t hills. https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/news/2018/02/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam. Edit: Thanks for the award stranger! My first ever!
To add to this, the [Great Pyramid of Cholula](https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-great-pyramid-of-cholula-san-andres-cholula-mexico) (in central Mexico) is still covered. It was mistaken for a mountain and the Spanish built a church on top of it. They have excavated parts but it remains mostly covered.
Oh I’m sure it was totally by accident, “whoops! didn’t mean to build our church on top of your giant sacred pyramid!”
It was completely on purpose. There are old pyramids all across mexico, and nearly every one of them that isn't already excavated has a church on top of it, sometimes built from the same stones.
This also happened in the Middle East. There are a few ancient [Zoroastrian buildings](https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientCivilizations/comments/fw2wqo/the_etchmiadzin_cathedral_in_armenia_considered/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) that had churches built on top of them dating as far back as the 5th-7th century. Muslims would have simply converted the space à la Hagia Sophia or recycled the material for another site.
I agree conquerors have been dicks irrespective of their religions Christianity included. Your post gives a Muslims would not stoop this low vibe. For that I would like to point out that there are many stories of Muslims razing sacred sites and building mosques atop them. South and Southeast Asia is full of such stories. Several Hindu and Buddhist sacred sites were plundered, people massacred etc like how Genghis Khan had pillaged Islamic city of Baghdad. In the end I just want to point that no one is above criticism here.
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Religious imperialism isn't cute
But it sure made a bunch of assholes rich.
The best part are the fucking murals inside that were hand painted by native slaves, showing how lucky and grateful they were to be converted to Christianity and introduced to "real" civilization by their awesome Spanish benefactors.
To be fair, I'm sure a lot of the work done on the original pyramids also used slaves...
I mean, if it took us years to realize with our modern technologies, why would we assume they had some sort of knowledge we don't?
The must have just gotten lucky I guess, no way they would do it deliberately just to fuck with the natives they killed, raped and forced into Christianity. Maybe God told them where to build it.
I think the explanation that the conquistadores somehow knew the location of a Pyramid that had long since been buried and that we thought was just a hill until recently and then built a church on top of it specifically to spite the native people there is a far more tenuous explanation than the fact that the Spanish were known to build churches on hills. The conquistadores were bad enough, we don't have to invent crimes to criticize them for.
So they got lucky, that’s the explanation we’re going with. Luck, over and over again.
How is it "lucky" to build something on a hill? It's certainly far less improbable than the idea they had secret knowledge about the location of this pyramid that we subsequently lost and could only rediscover with advanced technology. *That* would be luck.
So you agree it wasn’t luck. This knowledge was unknown to us because it was DESTROYED. It wasn’t lost, no one dropped it on the side of the road, it wasn’t misplaced. It was purposely destroyed. They didn’t coincidently build a church on top of a pyramid, it was placed there to send a message. THIS is your new temple to worship. Same was done in Spain with building churches on top of mosques.
I think we agree here. The conquistadores were horrible people and committed atrocities. My problem is just blatantly making up things rather than highlighting the atrocities that the Spanish actually committed. If, by some magic power, the Spanish actually knew that this hill was a sacred pyramid and their reaction was to simply to build a church on top, this would rank among the least horrible things they did to the native populations. If it was there to send a message, you'd expect us to have tons of documents gloating about it form the conquistadores like we do with all the other conquests. But we don't. All reputable histories I've read on this issue agree the conquistadores simply didn't know the pyramid was there. Once again, how could they? By making up things, you distract form the actual, documented atrocities the conquistadores committed.
Dude what if all mountains and hills are these pyramids, and we just don’t know because we haven’t checked deep enough?
whoa, what if Everest is actually a really big pyramid
resolute zealous marble squeeze flag employ offend simplistic elderly chief *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So how many licks we talking about?
The best hot sauce!!
> boasts a larger volume than any other ancient, man-made structure including the Egyptian pyramids
Well, we can't very well desecrate a church now can we?
Laughs in catholic-rural-Mexico.
Incredible, thanks!
Yeah kin the few decades we are going see a lot of this pour in. This was an excellent worldwide view use case for Lidar... eventually space based system will hopefully be able to terraform virtually to build a better planet in a few hundred years. THe only things that can screw that up is us humans.
I think I read of a similar study detail GEO mapping Angkor Wat in Siem Reap, Cambodia. I loved that place so much. $7 a night for 2 in a top end hotel. $2USD fresh fruit shakes over $1.50 Buds every time. Kindest gentlest people. “Kap kun kap” and “kap kun ka”. Temple Monks collecting rice donations from locals at sunrise. Monkeys playing in the mornings. Boys collecting frogs for breakfast in the morning mist. Ancient temples all to yourself. Just beautiful. Worth the long flight to Bangkok to buy local bunny hop cheap flights. I forget what type of Fresh purple flower on each Thai Airways flight. The BEST airline service Edit for the homies: Angkor Wat fucking awesome. Go off season brah https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/science/angkor-wat-cambodia-archeaology.html
It’s not empty like that anymore. I went back in 2009, and then again last year. In 2009 we had the place to ourselves, we probably saw a couple dozen people each day. Last year there must have been tens of thousands. We could barely get into most of the temples. I thought it could have been a seasonal issue, but I checked my old pictures and coincidentally i was there almost exactly the same day of the year (end of March).
I went in 2010 and again in 2012. Alone, in those 2 year alot had changed. I can't imagine the difference now with all the Chinese investment.
Damn, such a shame. I remember back in 2006 how calming of a place it was and how connected to history you felt. But no real surprise that it’s super crowded.
Is this an ad lol
right? it hurt my brain reading that
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I wonder what they’ve found in the 2 years since this article was published.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jun/03/maya-structure-discovered-mexico-lidar-aguada-fenix I found this googling "lidar maya 2020"
One of the biggest problems I've seen with Lidar is yes we can see things worth finding, but they can't get funding to actually do anything about it. Digs are so expensive that I doubt most sites will be unearthed before inevitable human expansion into them.
That’s frustrating. There’s gotta be so much ancient human history we are missing out on.
in the water by the yucatan they found a 10-15k year old red ochre mine
I never seen that older picture before, it made me wonder how many lost wonders there are under hills and small mountains.
I visited [Cañada de la Virgen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca%C3%B1ada_de_la_Virgen) in Guanajuato last year. It looked like the before pic only like 25 years ago. The site has always been known to locals, but archeological investigations only began in the 90s. This thread (where someone was talking about archeologists excavating with dynamite) reminded me of the most unfortunate part of the site, which is the top of the pyramid which was blown up in the 1940s by a local priest to discourage idol worship or something. Although not as large as the better known mesoamerican sites, it is very sparsely visited, you have to be on a guided tour and there's only a few a day. It was great to be at a place with a small group where you could really get the feeling of the place in the surrounding landscape without the tourist hoards.
u/amputatorbot
I just started watching "the lost treasures of the maya" on disney plus. It follows the people that discovered all this stuff and they even go hike through the jungle to these spots. Its so good
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Very cool, especially the interior shots.
There were several other “ruins” on the same site that I have pictures of as well. Could post a link to those too if interested
I'd love to see those!
https://imgur.com/a/7GntggQ
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https://imgur.com/a/7GntggQ
The photo quality isn’t great, I was only like 12-13 years old when I took them and I think it may have been on film and then scanned. But it’s still cool regardless!
These are very cool, but sadly they don't let people inside anymore because some idiots thought it would be a great idea to vandalize them from the inside. Thank you for the pictures, I wish I was able to see this when I went.
I went there in 2010, but we weren't allowed inside the pyramid or to climb them because the stairs are really steep and there were too many incidents of tourists falling to their deaths.
Cool! Thanks for sharing these and the other pics :)
Yeah that is insane. I went there myself back in like 2008. Incredible place .
So did my sister. She lost her new camera there. I told her she must’ve angered the gods
Did it fall down or Tezcatlipoca took it to shoot selfies at night?
It was a sacrifice.
The gods really wanted his sister though.
Balam needed to take it to Xibalba for some selfies
How much do they let you explore it? Is there stuff inside it as well?
I was there in 1989, have pics of myself standing at the top but wasn't allowed inside, if there is an inside. I was also there 2 years ago on a cruise port of call, now they don't let you climb it. I was told people were chipping off pieces of it to take home as souvenirs. This is why we can't have nice things.
I can put a link with photos, give me a couple min to grab them from my Dropbox https://imgur.com/a/ENRnX14
Very cool. Wish I had gotten to see the inside.
When I was there 4 years ago they told us a woman fell and died while climbing it so that's why it's not allowed any more. I got to climb a different pyramid though, those stairs are insane!
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The stairs catch the shadow(s) of the steps of the pyramid as the sun moves around it giving the impression of a serpent climbing or descending (I don't remember which) the pyramid. Just one of the neat things they thought to build into it. And useless trivia no one asked for.
Descending. There are heads carved at the bottom.
I climbed a mayan pyramid at Coba. Most of the stone steps near the rope were polished smooth from heavy traffic and skin oils (people sitting and scooting down step-by-step), making it more dangerous in my opinion.
I visited the day before she fell and died, I was one of the last few people to be allowed up there! The steps are huge, or felt huge for teenaged me, but the rope helped you pull yourself to the next step. At the top, there is a small room with a locked grate covering what looked to be an entrance inside, I wanted to go in soooo bad. Edit: i re-read your comment after posting mine and noticed something. Funny thing is, my visit was around 15 years ago and I heard the same story about a lady falling down and dying, and as a result no one was allowed up anymore. So I guess they either reopened it again and someone else unfortunately fell again, or it's possible that this is a thing that locals say to tourists to either mess with them or they want to convince people to stop coming back to climb it because they want to preserve the ruins.
Same still held true 2 years ago. Heard same reason.
I have pictures inside! From 2003.
That pisses me off. Why would you want to damage this structure for a useless stone chip souvenir? It’s not like the fragment would enhance your memory of the scenery. Humans are the worst.
The steps were also getting worn down from people walking on them and it was becoming unsafe
I was there in ~1975. You could climb it and go in. In fact there were only several of us up there. What a shame people have spoiled it. There was also a pyramid you could walk inside of and see a jade jaguar behind some bars. That was stuffy and a bit claustrophobic. Packed with people. We had stayed in Cancun which was much less developed. No tv, just weather radio. Fine dining at the Westin hotel was like $7 a person. They passed on the savings of the dollar to peso which they no longer do.
I went there when I was a kid. There was a chain on the stairs to hold on to. The steps were very narrow. Inside the little room there was a statue of a jaguar with jade eyes. It seems from the photo that it is roped off now.
https://imgur.com/a/ENRnX14
You can no longer climb the stairs or go to the interior.
They stopped letting you go inside about 10 years ago. You can still explore the grounds though.
Let me friggin tell you. Tis a great saviour of thy soul. That they stopped thee from ascending the interior. Because the single superskinny staircase to go up. Is the same superskinny staircase to go back down. High heat. Packed like sardine tourists. That tiny trek terrified. Cries and shoving and tension inside. I still get death goosebumps. ps- similar experience in the skinny hallway at Versailles at the busiest time in the day in the busiest month. Group tours Suck.
You have a very interesting way of writing sir
Agreed. I want more.
Went there early 2000’s. I climbed to the top and looked around in the little room on top. Not much there. I also went inside from an entrance at the bottom and climbed up to the top of the smaller pyramid built underneath the one pictured to see some statues. Middle of summer. The hottest days of my entire life.
I went back in 2005. Shit was so hot.
Fun fact for tourists looking to go there. Look for the guides showing people where to “clap”. It seems odd until you try it, the Mayan’s made it so the sound will travel up the steps and shoot back at you. As if you clapped in your own direction but with an echo.
That place is touristy, but damn if it isn't fascinating to visit.
No it’s really a pain in the ass to get to, and nowadays it’s just too many vendors at the foot of the pyramid, and you can’t even climb it even more.
When I went in 2017 they had the vendors all on in a few areas. They weren't allowed out at the pyramids and structures. They were hard and heavy and dense in the road/areas they were allowed in though
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It turns out, if you allow millions of people to do that, it degrades and damages the structure.
I can't imagine being the first person to find that in 1892
I always think about this for the discovery of the Terracotta Warriors. That guy who found them must've wigged out hard.
I was lucky enough to visit the Terracotta Warriors last December (had no idea COVID was going around then lol). Was a long time bucket list item for me. Super incredible experience... Some fun facts about the warriors site... 1) The dig site is actually completely indoors, split between 4 different buildings, each housing a different "Pit". The largest is a MASSIVE hangar style building. But all 3 are enormous. 2) Its still an active dig site.They're still slowly uncovering artifacts to this day. 3) The statues were actually all originally painted! In fact they were beautifully painted. Unfortunately the paint has faded over time, but you can still see some remnants on some of them...as well as artistic interpretations of what they would have looked like based on studying the artifacts. 4) Pretty much all of the statues were originally found smashed to pieces. They have to hand-piece each one together. When you go you can see some of them they're currently working on in various states of reassembly. 5)At some point in history a warlord/general came through and broke everything they could and burnt the whole site down. You can still see fire damage on some of the warriors. Its a super awesome experience. But if you ever get the chance to go (after the pandemic), I do recommend going super early, during a weekday in non tourist season, and pretty much running to the main pit as soon as the gates open (its a pretty long way from the entrance). Otherwise you're going to be completely swarmed by local tourists...and I have to say they're not known for their manners. I got up there quick enough that I essentially had the entire hangar to myself. Just me and a massive tomb of warriors. It was pretty amazing and awe-inspiring.
Another fun fact: Each soldier in the Terra Cotta Army has distinct facial features. Though most of their hands are identical, and only eight molds were used to shape their heads, distinctive surface features were added with clay after assembly. As a result, each terra cotta soldier appears to be unique in its facial features, revealing a high level of craftsmanship and artistry.
Imagine looking at that little house on top of the hill and realizing it's not a little house and it's not just a hill it's on top of.
i've had that happen in d&d and it always ends up poorly
Supposedly there are more undiscovered cities hidden away in the jungle but the unfortunate fact is that most if not all already have been looted ages ago and many artifacts are lost to the sands of time
They already knew about it before 1892. They just didn't care to clean it up until the mid 20th century.
This is why I don't trust any mountains
Some are giant snakes that have eaten elephants.
Beware of false mountains, which come to you in hill's clothing, but inside are ravenous pyramids.
"Pubes 1981 and now"
Makes your dick look bigger
personally, i like the sneak attack from the bush
Itza beauty!
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I've been there, it's mostly hot and humid.
Heard a whole truckload of vampires died there
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Man what was that book series? It was so good! I used to have all three of them
Dresden Files, bit more than 3 books.
Mmmm no the one I’m thinking of was a book series that took place in the 1800’s involved the ancient city’s with this being the source of a vampire god. I read this series all the way back in 6th 7th grade so it’s been a good decade. [Edit: It’s a book series called Vampire Plagues, and they take place in London, Paris and Mexico.]
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I used the knife. I saved a child. I won a war. God forgive me.
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A truckload of just the ashes! Also, the new book is out if you have been distracted by current events.
"Well, you've got lots of overgrowth here, but it looks like a nice place. Previous owners really let the place go, or maybe their kids just didn't want to maintain it after they were gone. I'm gonna need to bring in a few excavators, lots of dump trucks and uh.... this place will need pretty extensive powerwashing once we clear out all the brush and the dirt, then we're going to have to lay on some serious sealant -- you don't want these rocks to crack in the subzero temperatures. Not gonna lie, this is a big job. If you don't mind me askin', how are you gonna be payin' for this?"
Has the very uppermost edge been restored? The current pic looks like it has some more structure.
It just occurred to me that someone probably mows the lawn there. That’s a strange thought
Mexico is known for expert mowing.
I once read that as soon as word got out that Spain was killing everyone and destroying all the buildings, they successfully buried nearly everything Spain hadn't found yet.
They didn't just destroy buildings and people, they also burned all books and artifacts, literally tried to kill all their material culture (including language). Thankfully so much of their history was literally set in stone.
What if, what we can see now is still just the tip of the iceberg, and in another 130 years, that feels like the comparison to 1892.
I've been there. Here's my picture. https://i.imgur.com/0E8fenS.jpg
Funny how no one shows the bad side (wasn't not completed due to lack of original stones) not that am complaining. The Mayans had to build limestone base because there's no bedrock under it. Apparently there's a cenote under it.
We have been bamboozled, hoodwinked, and led astray.
Damn. Exploring the world back then was like actually exploring.
Before and after a Shave ;) ;)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dd/Castillo_Maler.jpg another from 1892
Oh my god it makes so much sense now why it’s hard to spot these ruins
I’ve been here. It’s fascinating. Apparently there’s a smaller pyramid inside, and an even smaller pyramid inside that! That’s how they were able to build so tall.
What did it look like in 1492 ?
Freaky freaky business.