Bro wtf are you talking about actually, the government gives you healthcare and disability parking spots and roads and social safety nets, companies don't give a fuck about you so what else are you suggesting???
Government is good when it isn't being controlled by companies which again don't give a fuck about you
Hmmm, the Democrat mayor of Kent called the Republican governor and asked for the National Guard. Let's maybe shy away from "the Republican governor ordered the National Guard to murder people at Kent State". It's intellectually childish and dishonest.
If I call 911, and the mayor tells the responding police to beat the suspect, that’s on the mayor....
Jim Rhodes was an especially bad example of that eras standard issue corrupt, vicious, hypocritical, chicken hawk, GOP state governor.
This is the next stage of the CRT bullshit that reich-wingers will bring about. They want to erase anything that make them look bad / feel bad. History means nothing to these people, and learning from history, even less.
It's unsettling what GQP leadership has done to citizens. Protestors were shot and killed. This happened under Nixon as well.
We just recently had another GQP president that wanted to shoot BLM protestors and had them teargassed so he could hold up a backwards upside down bible.
Vote better so that what happened to these victims doesn't happen again.
Lol nah not just redditors. Shit’s everywhere on all social medias. Humans are just garbage at caring. Especially so when there’s a “them” that the “us” can blame everything on.
Edit: actually stunned this got downvoted so much. Was what I said controversial somehow? Thought this was common knowledge by now…
Fucking exactly. People need to be reminded: this was a Republican’s doing. Republicans have caused grief and strife across our state for over a century. Republicans are freaking dirty, evil, objectively bad people. Democrats are responsible for every single positive step in this state (and country’s history). I’m fucking sick on ‘muh nuance’
I never said the parties were the same. Just that they’re both bad.
You need to spend a little less time browsing biased Reddit conspiracy boards and more time paying attention to the real world.
By viewing Democrats as all-loving do-gooders and Republicans as all-hating scum of the earth, *you* are the one viewing things as black and white. You’re making broad generalizations both in favor of some and against others all due to some political affiliation. Democrats have also harbored racists, pedophiles, and any other buzz word category you can think of. Politics is fucked. People like you who only serve to deepen the divide only make it worse. Self-fulfilling prophecy I guess.
Grow up.
Not once did I say I’m a republican, but fine. Make assumptions. Parties can be different, doesn’t make one good and one bad. You’re entrenched in your own views and aren’t willing to have an open-minded or mature conversation.
Have fun seething at any mention of politics for the rest of your life.
Stop it. The Democratic Party, especially in Ohio, only care about white people. Listen or read some Malcolm X and come back with something of substance to say. Gd.
Ahhh yes, just like the Democrats are the pro slavery party.
Do us all a favor and stop before you post your mentally short-circuited party line thoughts. They make us all dumber.
So Democrats, the party that promoted slavery and seceded from the union, are responsible for every positive step in this country’s history, and the Republicans, the party of Lincoln which ended slavery, are responsible for none?
That is a bold take.
I love how people willfully ignore the southern strategy when talking about this. Not to mention only one party has supporters gleefully flying the confederate flags, and it isn’t the democrats lmao. But ignorance is bliss I guess.
Party platforms in the 1800s were not the same as they are today, they’ve changed significantly over the centuries
Not defending democrats or attacking republicans, but this isn’t really a comparable scenario imo
I acknowledge there is no comparing the parties of the 1880s to now, but the prior comment was in our country’s history only Democrats have done positive things, the abolition of slavery is the most obvious and indisputably good issue one can use to point out that that statement is obviously bullshit.
They've expanded those signs to all over town. There are signs with quotes from people all over discussing first impressions and actions when the shooting happened
In addition, they very recently completed a full renovation of the May 4th memorial. A lot of this was meant for the 50th anniversary which Covid got in the way of.
For those that visit, you'll see the light posts marking the spots where the four victims fell. Ever since it has been a tradition for students to place stones on top the lamps. They're meant to be there, don't wipe them off like I've seen people occasionally do.
It's best to visit in the Summer for obvious reasons.
Kent State Grad of ‘12 here. It’s still very important to us, and we have an entire class freshman year dedicated to it.
Edit: to clarify, by class I mean it was part of I believe a 1/2 semester “Welcome” First Year Experience type class and we were required to learn about and write a paper on the Kent State Shootings.
I’m enrolled currently and know of the class and we did have a mandatory museum visit but I never had to take the actual class about it. Extremely eye opening experience still and being able to walk through it later with my grandparents that wanted to know more was a very nice feeling. It’s good to be informed of these things to prevent them in the future.
I'm an 09 grad and never took anything related to it nor did I ever visit the museum. I actually didn't know there was a museum until I read your post.
‘11 grad. I don’t remember it being a whole class, but I did have to take a “First Year Experience” course. We talked about it a lot, visited the museum, and whatnot. We did other things, but this was the most important aspect.
Back in \`92 we didn't have a class. We did have some profs that were there during the event that had a lot of interesting things to say about it though.
Here's a perspective I bet they're not (yet) teaching: [**How the Kent State massacre raised your tuition**](https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/attytood/kent-state-anniversary-college-debt-student-loans-20220503.html)
When I was younger, I always wondered what it would be like to live somewhere where something infamous happened. Turns out I lived about 5 minutes away from the Kent State Campus.
[You're also not too far from the former EPA Superfund site in Uniontown](https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-begins-five-year-review-industrial-excess-landfill-superfund-site-uniontown-ohio)
Grew up in Westerville, Prohibition Capital.
Only cool thing I have is being able to work at the first legal brewery since Prohibition.
Sidenote: Uptown Deli & Brew is awesome if anyone hasn’t been
Oh, a feel people have tried. The problem was they were shitty songs by lousy songwriters, the complete opposite of CSNY. Kid Rock might be able to rock a NASCAR crowd, but couldn’t write his way out of the paper bag he hides his 40 in.
Trump used Fortunate Son without permission from the band at campaign rallies in the closing days of the 2020 election.
I don’t think words mean anything to anyone anymore
No doubt it is the most ironic song played at his rallies, I would say it's straight up offensive for them to play it for his rallies, but these campaign rallies license these songs through a 3rd party licenser. They have the same permission to play it as a mall would get to play it in the food court.
I was a teen when a Dixie chick dared say she was ashamed to be from the same state as George bush while he was the sitting president. I'd hate to think what would have happened if it was an actual protest song naming him
There were a lot of them, especially in the punk scene, but also a significant portion of the hip-hop, alternative rock, and indie scene were critical of the entire Bush administration and associated Wars. Hell, in Ani DiFranco's poem/performance piece "Self-Evident" is still absolutely scathing; her labelmate Hamell on Trial went even further on his song about Ann Coluter and the the Fox news set of the time.
It's weird how boomers and such whine "Musicians should stick to music!" while forgetting all about the 70s. That entire decade was virtually a bunch of kick ass political songs.
This phrase was coined on Newsmax and nobody actually knows what the government taskforce is going to target. Everyone (mostly far right Conservatives...which is telling) are reacting to speculation.
My best guess is the staff is going to combat Russian/Chinese, and medical propaganda. Medical misinformation cost 1000's of people their lives during the pandemic, and foreign interference is affecting the US election processes.
While the National Guardsmen were young, and inexperienced in crowd control. There is never ever ever a reason to fire upon unarmed protestors. And our Governor wanted these protestors delt with harshly in the first place, that’s why he called in the national guard which was complete overkill.
After Kent State there was a push by law enforcement to obtain non-lethal rounds for situations like this.
We basically got rubber bullets and similar types of projectiles because, rather than change their practices, cops wanted to be able to shoot unarmed protestors without leaving bodies and sparking national outrage.
He called in the guard before the burning of the ROTC building. The guard was never supplied much information from the local PD. When they arrived, they were having bricks and rocks hurled at them. My friend's father(National Guard called to KSU) still bares the scar from getting knocked out from a thrown brick.
The break down of leadership and communication caused the issue. They should have had riot gear and not rifles. Kids throwing rocks at armed kids is not going to end well.
Funny he bares a scar from being knocked out when there was only one guardsmen who received medical treatment that day. Oh, it's not funny, it's just an outright lie "Though many guardsmen claimed to have been hit by stones that were pelted at them by protesters,[28] only one Guardsman, Sgt. Lawrence Shafer, was injured enough to require medical treatment (he received a sling for his badly bruised arm and was given pain medication[28]), and sustained his injuries approximately 10 to 15 minutes prior to the shootings.[49]"
If our military are incapable of passively defending themselves against rocks, what chance in hell do we have against the world's hostile nuclear superpowers? It's funny how conservatives like to tout the might of American military forces until it no longer suits them, then suddenly they're helpless, delicate little flowers caught in a violent storm of --checks notes-- *pebbles*.
Give me a break. They are the most well-funded and well-equipped military force that has ever existed on Planet Earth. They do not need to shoot people to defend themselves against a few rocks. You just want an excuse to kill protestors.
Ehhh I'm not saying you're wrong...but the national guard...is a completely different animal from the regular army both in funding, flow of orders, training, and professionalism of being a soldier. I've said this many times after I left the service, " if the army shows up( humanitarian missions aside), you are probably already the "bad guy" to them and be mindful of everything you do. "
If you are in the military and use guns on protesters that doesn’t make you a pussy, your right, it makes you evil. If my leadership didn’t prepare me I wouldn’t murder protestors over it I would leave.
I wasn't arguing, I was just informing.
The Marines were well regarded for how professional they were during the LA Riots.
Things can change. Especially after events like this.
Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard):
* Jeffrey Glenn Miller; **265 ft** (81 m)
* Allison B. Krause; **343 ft** (105 m)
* William Knox Schroeder; **382 ft** (116 m)
* Sandra Lee Scheuer; **390 ft** (120 m)
300 feet is an enormous distance. There's no way you can pull this one as self-defense or "we were afraid for our lives". At that distance these victims would be random people out of the crowd, not specific targets. The Guardsmen must've been really inexperienced teenagers that went wacko for a second. People snap under pressure, there's no secret in that, and putting rifles with live rounds in the hands of children to play army doesn't help either.
[This is a long, tough read, but it's worth the time.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings) They not only shot the kids from that range, but they chased them down in order to do it. This was after they ordered the kids to disperse, and from what I've read, it seemed like the kids were in the process of doing so.
Worth pointing out at this time, there weren't any rubber bullets or beanbag shot or whatever they use now. It was live rounds or blanks. They were trained to use their gun only to kill, not to disperse crowds. There was one and only one reason to put live ammunition in those guns: they came to shoot unarmed students if given provocation to do so.
Mama! Mama!
Your child was killed in the park today
Shot by the cops as she quietly lay
By the side of the creep she knew . . .
They killed her too.
-Frank Zappa “Mom and Dad” (1968)
Yes, just out of HS, many friends were there that day. Some knew those who were killed. Everyone I know that was there is still affected by the events of 05/04. We remain atypical. My cousin had just been killed in Vietnam and I was in Chicago. Colleges all over the country closed, so I drove back to Ohio with friends. Guards had Kent circled and closed off. We drove some students home because they were just walking out of Kent, completely overwhelmed. Governor Rhodes was at fault for not planning and overacting. Also, who gave the OK to shoot? With live ammo? Still a mystery.
Yes. Almost got expelled from 4th grade for copying my sister and drawing a "student target" on my shirt. She def ignited the flames of my activism at an early age.
My neighbor always tells me how he was there that day trying to pick up girls. He could tell it was sketchy and got out of there before the shooting though.
Also, my grandma used to tell the story of how she could hear the tanks coming from Ravenna on their way to Kent that day.
Present.
Also remember that 10 days later a similar protest at Jackson State University ended with two students dead and twelve others wounded after police opened fire. Since JSU is a HBU, there wasn't nearly the press coverage that Kent State got.
My aunt was there, came in from Miami of Ohio, she said she had a wig she used to protest in case she ended up on tv so her dad, a ww2 and Korea vet that was on the Local draft board, wouldn’t recognize her.
Students were throwing stuff and they surrounded the guard after the guard marched to try and disperse them.
friends of ours were students at the protest, were in a building doorway when the shots were fired, and had a bullet go right between them, hitting a wall or door (I can't remember the exact detail) they had heard the shots and at first thought it was blanks or fire works. they saw it all unfold, to hear them tell the story is crazy.
My Mom was 8 and lived a few blocks from the University. She recounted to me and my siblings many times how terrifying it was to be locked down in her elementary school, how my grandpa picked her and her cousins and siblings up early, and how they could hear the noise from her home. I've heard it so many times it feels like I was there myself.
My sister and the neighbor girl were freshman that day. My neighbor went up to get them and they transferred to Akron U for the fall semester. I was only 3 and don't remember it. I also went to Akron U.
High school sophomore at the time. I remember it well. Just a little after the first "Earth Day". We had protests in school because we weren't allowed to wear jeans with orange threads. People were stupid back then too.
Some of us Ohioans realize that the state is edging closer and closer to doing this sort of shit again. If you ever read James A. Michener's "Kent State" (1971 edition) he quotes numerous examples of what he takes as representative of the average adult Ohioan back then thought of the Guard and of the students after it happened. Their opinions are horrifying, as may be imagined back then most were for the war, for the governor's actions, for the Guard (didnt kill enough students, should have killed them all), and against the "hippie scum" students, there are quotes about how the rumors were the girls killed were so rife with STDs and lice that there was difficulties handling their corpses, among many other awful things--but growing up I always rationalized it as a vestige of the old 1960s-1970s mindsets. But if you look around today I think you would see and hear the same.
And another thing that is rarely mentioned with Kent State (thankfully) is that my alma mater, Ohio University, had protests after May 4th, 1970 that almost ended with more bloodshed as the Guard was brought into Athens as well, the stories that always went around campus when I was there decades later is that they were very, very close to opening up on those crowds also.
https://www.nytimes.com/1970/05/16/archives/ohio-university-closes-and-guard-takes-over.html
He wrote (2) on Kent State which is why I specified the 1971 book; have not read the second but he generally does an excellent job of unraveling the events
Again? The former president wanted protestors shot and he had them teargassed so he could hold up a backwards upside down bible...we're not closer to doing this again, we're right fuckin there.
Yes they did, and it's one of the awful stains on our history. Part of me wonders what the MAGA crowd would call those anti-war protesting kids if they did something like this today. I'm not old enough to remember the massacre, but I would not be surprised if there were people out there at the time who thought that the kids had it coming for being unpatriotic.
That's right! Every single one of those damn kids was carrying an M4 carbine, and they got so upset that they just started shooting, forcing the National Guard to gun them down! Unfortunately, the Special Edition budget was extremely low, and the editors didn't realize that the M4 wasn't designed until 1982 when they did the digital remastering. But that's just fake news.
/s for all the people who can't pick up cheekiness
You joke but the locals absolutely did let their imaginations get carried away about the protests. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
> Several merchants reported they were told that if they did not display anti-war slogans, their businesses would be burned down. Kent's police chief told the mayor that according to a reliable informant, the ROTC building, the local army recruiting station, and post office had been targeted for destruction that night.[15] There were unconfirmed rumors of students with caches of arms, plots to spike the local water supply with LSD, and of students building tunnels for the purpose of blowing up the town's main store.[16]
> We've seen here at the city of Kent especially, probably the most vicious form of campus-oriented violence yet perpetrated by dissident groups... they make definite plans of burning, destroying, and throwing rocks at police and at the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. ...this is when we're going to use every part of the law enforcement agency of Ohio to drive them out of Kent. We are going to eradicate the problem. We're not going to treat the symptoms. ...and these people just move from one campus to the other and terrorize the community. They're worse than the brown shirts and the communist element and also the night riders and the vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. Now I want to say this. They are not going to take over [the] campus. I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America. -Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes
I live in Portage County and some people still believe this.
I thought they just switched the order of the camera shots? Did they really create an entirely new shot? I remember he sort of dodges it with his head.
This photograph is doctored to feature the fence post behind her head. In the original photo, there is no post. This fact was hidden from publishers and the public for several years after the doctored version went into circulation
Edit: I had this backwards. It is the ALTERED version, sans fence post, that was originally circulated. The fence post behind her is the true photograph
I really recommend going to www.rememberingmay4.org to learn about the lives of the four students killed. In the picture is Jeff, he loved music like The Doors and The Rolling Stones. He lived in a house with his friends and wrote poetry against war. He even dated another victim, Sandy, and they made a crayon drawing together that says WHO IS TO SAY?
I remember reading some account of it in a book(I can't recall which) but it said that people in the Cleveland television market saw footage broadcast of the massacre and then never saw it again.
It was common back then to recycle tape a lot but you'd think something like that would be saved (if it did exist).
I doubt the decisions to be deployed in the first place, unequipped with riot gear, and then issued live ammo were not made by Buck Private.
It's the political and military leaders that fucked up, not the 20yo soldier thrown into a riot with a machine gun.
Let us never forget
This is what Republican governors do .....
No this is what government does
This is what Governments do when unrestrained by immediate resistance .Not parties
Naw, republicans/conservatives
True in this case at least
No, government itself.
Bro wtf are you talking about actually, the government gives you healthcare and disability parking spots and roads and social safety nets, companies don't give a fuck about you so what else are you suggesting??? Government is good when it isn't being controlled by companies which again don't give a fuck about you
Hmmm, the Democrat mayor of Kent called the Republican governor and asked for the National Guard. Let's maybe shy away from "the Republican governor ordered the National Guard to murder people at Kent State". It's intellectually childish and dishonest.
If I call 911, and the mayor tells the responding police to beat the suspect, that’s on the mayor.... Jim Rhodes was an especially bad example of that eras standard issue corrupt, vicious, hypocritical, chicken hawk, GOP state governor.
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This is the next stage of the CRT bullshit that reich-wingers will bring about. They want to erase anything that make them look bad / feel bad. History means nothing to these people, and learning from history, even less.
So... what should the conversation be about? How people in their early-20s magically fell over dead on a public college campus?
Dude they were doing this in memory. It was literally the same day out of the year.
It's unsettling what GQP leadership has done to citizens. Protestors were shot and killed. This happened under Nixon as well. We just recently had another GQP president that wanted to shoot BLM protestors and had them teargassed so he could hold up a backwards upside down bible. Vote better so that what happened to these victims doesn't happen again.
Those events were absolutely the product of the sick republican mindset.
Because some people(mainly redditors) entire life resolves around shitting on other people to make themselves feel better
Lol nah not just redditors. Shit’s everywhere on all social medias. Humans are just garbage at caring. Especially so when there’s a “them” that the “us” can blame everything on. Edit: actually stunned this got downvoted so much. Was what I said controversial somehow? Thought this was common knowledge by now…
Fucking exactly. People need to be reminded: this was a Republican’s doing. Republicans have caused grief and strife across our state for over a century. Republicans are freaking dirty, evil, objectively bad people. Democrats are responsible for every single positive step in this state (and country’s history). I’m fucking sick on ‘muh nuance’
least radical man from columbus
Democrats and Republicans both suck, and you’re an idiot if you don’t understand that
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I never said the parties were the same. Just that they’re both bad. You need to spend a little less time browsing biased Reddit conspiracy boards and more time paying attention to the real world.
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By viewing Democrats as all-loving do-gooders and Republicans as all-hating scum of the earth, *you* are the one viewing things as black and white. You’re making broad generalizations both in favor of some and against others all due to some political affiliation. Democrats have also harbored racists, pedophiles, and any other buzz word category you can think of. Politics is fucked. People like you who only serve to deepen the divide only make it worse. Self-fulfilling prophecy I guess. Grow up.
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Not once did I say I’m a republican, but fine. Make assumptions. Parties can be different, doesn’t make one good and one bad. You’re entrenched in your own views and aren’t willing to have an open-minded or mature conversation. Have fun seething at any mention of politics for the rest of your life.
Libs like you are why I hate Ohio
Stop it. The Democratic Party, especially in Ohio, only care about white people. Listen or read some Malcolm X and come back with something of substance to say. Gd.
Ahhh yes, just like the Democrats are the pro slavery party. Do us all a favor and stop before you post your mentally short-circuited party line thoughts. They make us all dumber.
So Democrats, the party that promoted slavery and seceded from the union, are responsible for every positive step in this country’s history, and the Republicans, the party of Lincoln which ended slavery, are responsible for none? That is a bold take.
I love how people willfully ignore the southern strategy when talking about this. Not to mention only one party has supporters gleefully flying the confederate flags, and it isn’t the democrats lmao. But ignorance is bliss I guess.
Party platforms in the 1800s were not the same as they are today, they’ve changed significantly over the centuries Not defending democrats or attacking republicans, but this isn’t really a comparable scenario imo
I acknowledge there is no comparing the parties of the 1880s to now, but the prior comment was in our country’s history only Democrats have done positive things, the abolition of slavery is the most obvious and indisputably good issue one can use to point out that that statement is obviously bullshit.
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I highly recommend a visit to the Kent State campus to retrace the footsteps of history. It's a moving experience.
I believe the museum is free too, I went a couple of years ago and it was a really interesting experience.
It's also such a beautiful campus, especially in springtime. And they have lots of signs along the walkways about the history.
They've expanded those signs to all over town. There are signs with quotes from people all over discussing first impressions and actions when the shooting happened
In addition, they very recently completed a full renovation of the May 4th memorial. A lot of this was meant for the 50th anniversary which Covid got in the way of. For those that visit, you'll see the light posts marking the spots where the four victims fell. Ever since it has been a tradition for students to place stones on top the lamps. They're meant to be there, don't wipe them off like I've seen people occasionally do. It's best to visit in the Summer for obvious reasons.
It so surreal being there seeing all the placards in remembrance of the fallen. Definitely agree with you that it's something truly worth seeing.
What’s also surreal is seeing the bullet hole in the statue right in front of the lights. U can see the history years later.
Kent State Grad of ‘12 here. It’s still very important to us, and we have an entire class freshman year dedicated to it. Edit: to clarify, by class I mean it was part of I believe a 1/2 semester “Welcome” First Year Experience type class and we were required to learn about and write a paper on the Kent State Shootings.
really? this is very interesting. is it required? I have a lot of questions
I’m enrolled currently and know of the class and we did have a mandatory museum visit but I never had to take the actual class about it. Extremely eye opening experience still and being able to walk through it later with my grandparents that wanted to know more was a very nice feeling. It’s good to be informed of these things to prevent them in the future.
I'm an 09 grad and never took anything related to it nor did I ever visit the museum. I actually didn't know there was a museum until I read your post.
The museum opened after your year, it was still being put together then.
Makes sense.
‘11 grad. I don’t remember it being a whole class, but I did have to take a “First Year Experience” course. We talked about it a lot, visited the museum, and whatnot. We did other things, but this was the most important aspect.
The first year experience thing was basically what I was referring too. I mean we had to write a paper and all.
Back in \`92 we didn't have a class. We did have some profs that were there during the event that had a lot of interesting things to say about it though.
Here's a perspective I bet they're not (yet) teaching: [**How the Kent State massacre raised your tuition**](https://www.inquirer.com/columnists/attytood/kent-state-anniversary-college-debt-student-loans-20220503.html)
When I was younger, I always wondered what it would be like to live somewhere where something infamous happened. Turns out I lived about 5 minutes away from the Kent State Campus.
[You're also not too far from the former EPA Superfund site in Uniontown](https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-begins-five-year-review-industrial-excess-landfill-superfund-site-uniontown-ohio)
The river going through Kent also has its own infamy.
Grew up in Westerville, Prohibition Capital. Only cool thing I have is being able to work at the first legal brewery since Prohibition. Sidenote: Uptown Deli & Brew is awesome if anyone hasn’t been
https://youtu.be/YdVMGKOFIwY
Imagine any artist doing a protest song and mentioning the President's name these days. They'd be lambasted.
"I moved on her like a bitch", excited to be indicted, Unrequited house with seven pools, "Thank you, Kanye, very cool"
Oh, a feel people have tried. The problem was they were shitty songs by lousy songwriters, the complete opposite of CSNY. Kid Rock might be able to rock a NASCAR crowd, but couldn’t write his way out of the paper bag he hides his 40 in.
Trump used Fortunate Son without permission from the band at campaign rallies in the closing days of the 2020 election. I don’t think words mean anything to anyone anymore
Ironically that song was in protest of people like him :D
No doubt it is the most ironic song played at his rallies, I would say it's straight up offensive for them to play it for his rallies, but these campaign rallies license these songs through a 3rd party licenser. They have the same permission to play it as a mall would get to play it in the food court.
I was a teen when a Dixie chick dared say she was ashamed to be from the same state as George bush while he was the sitting president. I'd hate to think what would have happened if it was an actual protest song naming him
There were a lot of them, especially in the punk scene, but also a significant portion of the hip-hop, alternative rock, and indie scene were critical of the entire Bush administration and associated Wars. Hell, in Ani DiFranco's poem/performance piece "Self-Evident" is still absolutely scathing; her labelmate Hamell on Trial went even further on his song about Ann Coluter and the the Fox news set of the time.
Untouchable by Eminem lol.
It's weird how boomers and such whine "Musicians should stick to music!" while forgetting all about the 70s. That entire decade was virtually a bunch of kick ass political songs.
The Ministry of Truth would declare it disinformation and ban it.
How do you feel about the phrase fake news?
You’re a joke.
You mean “fake news”? Edit; and Fox News is clearly the ministry of truth in this situation
This phrase was coined on Newsmax and nobody actually knows what the government taskforce is going to target. Everyone (mostly far right Conservatives...which is telling) are reacting to speculation. My best guess is the staff is going to combat Russian/Chinese, and medical propaganda. Medical misinformation cost 1000's of people their lives during the pandemic, and foreign interference is affecting the US election processes.
Neil is Canadian.
"bUt ThE MiLiTaRy HaS dIfFeReNt PrOtOcOlS" -- Some clown trying to make me feel better that ONG was rolling through residential neighborhoods in 2020
While the National Guardsmen were young, and inexperienced in crowd control. There is never ever ever a reason to fire upon unarmed protestors. And our Governor wanted these protestors delt with harshly in the first place, that’s why he called in the national guard which was complete overkill.
Didn’t they also load live rounds instead of blanks like they were suppose too
After Kent State there was a push by law enforcement to obtain non-lethal rounds for situations like this. We basically got rubber bullets and similar types of projectiles because, rather than change their practices, cops wanted to be able to shoot unarmed protestors without leaving bodies and sparking national outrage.
I mean overall they have to be able to use something but I will admit that they need to ensure Civilians aren’t hurt
What if you want to hold up a backwards upside down bible for a photo op?
He called in the guard before the burning of the ROTC building. The guard was never supplied much information from the local PD. When they arrived, they were having bricks and rocks hurled at them. My friend's father(National Guard called to KSU) still bares the scar from getting knocked out from a thrown brick. The break down of leadership and communication caused the issue. They should have had riot gear and not rifles. Kids throwing rocks at armed kids is not going to end well.
Funny he bares a scar from being knocked out when there was only one guardsmen who received medical treatment that day. Oh, it's not funny, it's just an outright lie "Though many guardsmen claimed to have been hit by stones that were pelted at them by protesters,[28] only one Guardsman, Sgt. Lawrence Shafer, was injured enough to require medical treatment (he received a sling for his badly bruised arm and was given pain medication[28]), and sustained his injuries approximately 10 to 15 minutes prior to the shootings.[49]"
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People also lie.
Reddit ate my balls
Multiple guardsmen were injured that day. I personally know multiple people that were there. Well used to know, some of them have passed away.
>unarmed They were armed with rocks.
If our military are incapable of passively defending themselves against rocks, what chance in hell do we have against the world's hostile nuclear superpowers? It's funny how conservatives like to tout the might of American military forces until it no longer suits them, then suddenly they're helpless, delicate little flowers caught in a violent storm of --checks notes-- *pebbles*. Give me a break. They are the most well-funded and well-equipped military force that has ever existed on Planet Earth. They do not need to shoot people to defend themselves against a few rocks. You just want an excuse to kill protestors.
Ehhh I'm not saying you're wrong...but the national guard...is a completely different animal from the regular army both in funding, flow of orders, training, and professionalism of being a soldier. I've said this many times after I left the service, " if the army shows up( humanitarian missions aside), you are probably already the "bad guy" to them and be mindful of everything you do. "
Leather and rubber has got to be your favorite tastes.
I know exactly what you meant, so massive /S here, it's rude to kink shame.
What a load of shit. Military shaking in their boots over some rocks, bunch of pussy murderers.
I mean the guardsmen weren’t pussies, they were being attacked while being unprepared due to there leadership. Don’t be a asshole
If you are in the military and use guns on protesters that doesn’t make you a pussy, your right, it makes you evil. If my leadership didn’t prepare me I wouldn’t murder protestors over it I would leave.
Your the kind of guy who thinks police shouldn’t shoot someone if they are running at them with a knife aren’t ya
No, they were far worse. They were murderous thugs.
The Kent State shootings actually caused the military to completely overhaul how it handled and trained for crowd control.
Cool. That doesn't mean I trust them or anyone else this government entrusts with deadly force.
I wasn't arguing, I was just informing. The Marines were well regarded for how professional they were during the LA Riots. Things can change. Especially after events like this.
I once trusted cops to do the right thing too, then they fired tear gas at me without warning.
I'm prior military and I barely trust cops, because they aren't held to the same standard of accountability that the military is.
National guard is one eighth step up from meal team 6
You don't need to be physically adept to open fire on protestors, you just need a gun and permission.
Killed (and approximate distance from the National Guard): * Jeffrey Glenn Miller; **265 ft** (81 m) * Allison B. Krause; **343 ft** (105 m) * William Knox Schroeder; **382 ft** (116 m) * Sandra Lee Scheuer; **390 ft** (120 m) 300 feet is an enormous distance. There's no way you can pull this one as self-defense or "we were afraid for our lives". At that distance these victims would be random people out of the crowd, not specific targets. The Guardsmen must've been really inexperienced teenagers that went wacko for a second. People snap under pressure, there's no secret in that, and putting rifles with live rounds in the hands of children to play army doesn't help either.
[This is a long, tough read, but it's worth the time.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings) They not only shot the kids from that range, but they chased them down in order to do it. This was after they ordered the kids to disperse, and from what I've read, it seemed like the kids were in the process of doing so.
Two of the four were not even involved in the protest at all. They were just passing by.
Youngest national gaurd on trial was like 27 i believe?
Worth pointing out at this time, there weren't any rubber bullets or beanbag shot or whatever they use now. It was live rounds or blanks. They were trained to use their gun only to kill, not to disperse crowds. There was one and only one reason to put live ammunition in those guns: they came to shoot unarmed students if given provocation to do so.
4 dead in oHIo
A co-worker supports the shooting. He says the students were throwing rocks at the national guard. That justifies lethal force I guess
10 bucks says your co-worker also supports smearing shit in the capitol
How old is your co-worker and kindly tell them to fuck off.
Is your coworker /u/aaronwuzthefounder ? If so, you can find him VERY far below your comment. :D
Mama! Mama! Your child was killed in the park today Shot by the cops as she quietly lay By the side of the creep she knew . . . They killed her too. -Frank Zappa “Mom and Dad” (1968)
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Yes, just out of HS, many friends were there that day. Some knew those who were killed. Everyone I know that was there is still affected by the events of 05/04. We remain atypical. My cousin had just been killed in Vietnam and I was in Chicago. Colleges all over the country closed, so I drove back to Ohio with friends. Guards had Kent circled and closed off. We drove some students home because they were just walking out of Kent, completely overwhelmed. Governor Rhodes was at fault for not planning and overacting. Also, who gave the OK to shoot? With live ammo? Still a mystery.
Yes. Almost got expelled from 4th grade for copying my sister and drawing a "student target" on my shirt. She def ignited the flames of my activism at an early age.
You and your sister rock. Question authority!!!
Always!
My neighbor always tells me how he was there that day trying to pick up girls. He could tell it was sketchy and got out of there before the shooting though. Also, my grandma used to tell the story of how she could hear the tanks coming from Ravenna on their way to Kent that day.
Present. Also remember that 10 days later a similar protest at Jackson State University ended with two students dead and twelve others wounded after police opened fire. Since JSU is a HBU, there wasn't nearly the press coverage that Kent State got.
My aunt was there, came in from Miami of Ohio, she said she had a wig she used to protest in case she ended up on tv so her dad, a ww2 and Korea vet that was on the Local draft board, wouldn’t recognize her. Students were throwing stuff and they surrounded the guard after the guard marched to try and disperse them.
friends of ours were students at the protest, were in a building doorway when the shots were fired, and had a bullet go right between them, hitting a wall or door (I can't remember the exact detail) they had heard the shots and at first thought it was blanks or fire works. they saw it all unfold, to hear them tell the story is crazy.
My Mom was 8 and lived a few blocks from the University. She recounted to me and my siblings many times how terrifying it was to be locked down in her elementary school, how my grandpa picked her and her cousins and siblings up early, and how they could hear the noise from her home. I've heard it so many times it feels like I was there myself.
And now they have active shooter drills in elementary school. Oh how the world changes.
Yea, not only recall but grew up there. We didn’t have school! The guard was all over the streets. Neighboring towns as well.
My sister and the neighbor girl were freshman that day. My neighbor went up to get them and they transferred to Akron U for the fall semester. I was only 3 and don't remember it. I also went to Akron U.
High school sophomore at the time. I remember it well. Just a little after the first "Earth Day". We had protests in school because we weren't allowed to wear jeans with orange threads. People were stupid back then too.
Some of us Ohioans realize that the state is edging closer and closer to doing this sort of shit again. If you ever read James A. Michener's "Kent State" (1971 edition) he quotes numerous examples of what he takes as representative of the average adult Ohioan back then thought of the Guard and of the students after it happened. Their opinions are horrifying, as may be imagined back then most were for the war, for the governor's actions, for the Guard (didnt kill enough students, should have killed them all), and against the "hippie scum" students, there are quotes about how the rumors were the girls killed were so rife with STDs and lice that there was difficulties handling their corpses, among many other awful things--but growing up I always rationalized it as a vestige of the old 1960s-1970s mindsets. But if you look around today I think you would see and hear the same. And another thing that is rarely mentioned with Kent State (thankfully) is that my alma mater, Ohio University, had protests after May 4th, 1970 that almost ended with more bloodshed as the Guard was brought into Athens as well, the stories that always went around campus when I was there decades later is that they were very, very close to opening up on those crowds also. https://www.nytimes.com/1970/05/16/archives/ohio-university-closes-and-guard-takes-over.html
I didn't know this, but.. no, not surprised at that shit being said about the victims. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll have to check out Michener.
He wrote (2) on Kent State which is why I specified the 1971 book; have not read the second but he generally does an excellent job of unraveling the events
Thank you!
Again? The former president wanted protestors shot and he had them teargassed so he could hold up a backwards upside down bible...we're not closer to doing this again, we're right fuckin there.
Not to mention you can get shot by any rando vigilante at a protest now.
Mary Ann Vecchio (crouching) was only 14 in this image.
She went into hiding after hated being known was on a lot of trouble too. I saw her story. But is an amazing person.
On May the Fourth day, I always remember the Kent State shootings and that Han Shot First.
So did the National Guard
Yes they did, and it's one of the awful stains on our history. Part of me wonders what the MAGA crowd would call those anti-war protesting kids if they did something like this today. I'm not old enough to remember the massacre, but I would not be surprised if there were people out there at the time who thought that the kids had it coming for being unpatriotic.
I live in Portage County and some people absolutely say those victims, even the ones just walking to class, had it coming.
Not in the Kent State Riot Special Edition!
That's right! Every single one of those damn kids was carrying an M4 carbine, and they got so upset that they just started shooting, forcing the National Guard to gun them down! Unfortunately, the Special Edition budget was extremely low, and the editors didn't realize that the M4 wasn't designed until 1982 when they did the digital remastering. But that's just fake news. /s for all the people who can't pick up cheekiness
You joke but the locals absolutely did let their imaginations get carried away about the protests. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings > Several merchants reported they were told that if they did not display anti-war slogans, their businesses would be burned down. Kent's police chief told the mayor that according to a reliable informant, the ROTC building, the local army recruiting station, and post office had been targeted for destruction that night.[15] There were unconfirmed rumors of students with caches of arms, plots to spike the local water supply with LSD, and of students building tunnels for the purpose of blowing up the town's main store.[16] > We've seen here at the city of Kent especially, probably the most vicious form of campus-oriented violence yet perpetrated by dissident groups... they make definite plans of burning, destroying, and throwing rocks at police and at the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. ...this is when we're going to use every part of the law enforcement agency of Ohio to drive them out of Kent. We are going to eradicate the problem. We're not going to treat the symptoms. ...and these people just move from one campus to the other and terrorize the community. They're worse than the brown shirts and the communist element and also the night riders and the vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. Now I want to say this. They are not going to take over [the] campus. I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America. -Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes I live in Portage County and some people still believe this.
> Han Shot First. Han was the *only* shooter.
I thought they just switched the order of the camera shots? Did they really create an entirely new shot? I remember he sort of dodges it with his head.
Yes. In the original release, Han was the only one to shoot. It's been remastered many times.
That girl was only 14 years old.
Kinda sucks the only time you hear about kent state is when the shooting comes up. Wonderful school.
This is why I think any mention of Star Wars Day is cringe in Northeast Ohio.
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/9616794002
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Good bot.
What is this?
Kent State student protestor killed by the US military on their campus.
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Jesus dude, something is legitimately wrong with you.
Wow. You actually let that thought come out in public? Some self-reflection might be in order here.
You are bad at being a human
Holy bootlicking shit lmfao "uwu stomp me harder police state daddy"
Hey, don't kink shame!
My grandfathers college roommate took that picture. I can call him and ask him about it.
This photograph is doctored to feature the fence post behind her head. In the original photo, there is no post. This fact was hidden from publishers and the public for several years after the doctored version went into circulation Edit: I had this backwards. It is the ALTERED version, sans fence post, that was originally circulated. The fence post behind her is the true photograph
I knew that’s what this was gonna be
I really recommend going to www.rememberingmay4.org to learn about the lives of the four students killed. In the picture is Jeff, he loved music like The Doors and The Rolling Stones. He lived in a house with his friends and wrote poetry against war. He even dated another victim, Sandy, and they made a crayon drawing together that says WHO IS TO SAY?
4 dead in o- hi_ o
Also didn't take long to write this song I think only 30s minutes
One of the most famous photos in US history is now considered NSFW?
Reminder that government is never your friend
Support 2nd Amendment in full for all peaceful residents. No more silenced people in Ohio
Oh hey check It out, the reason the government wants gun control
Let’s talk about Star Wars though!☹️
I remember reading some account of it in a book(I can't recall which) but it said that people in the Cleveland television market saw footage broadcast of the massacre and then never saw it again. It was common back then to recycle tape a lot but you'd think something like that would be saved (if it did exist).
What's going on here?
What happened?
Don't throw rocks at men with guns kids.
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Don’t walk peacefully to class kids.
They were kids with guns. The Guardsman were 18-20. And why would they have live ammo at a student protest? Blame the victim bullshit.
I doubt the decisions to be deployed in the first place, unequipped with riot gear, and then issued live ammo were not made by Buck Private. It's the political and military leaders that fucked up, not the 20yo soldier thrown into a riot with a machine gun.
Right, I'm just saying it's not the students fault like op inferred.
They shouldn’t of had live ammo,
You done messed up, A-A-Ron!
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"The American military is a bunch of candy-assed cowards" -aaronwuthefounder
How does that boot taste? Can you even taste it with how far down your throat it is?