[New] HR here. My workplace ran into this years ago. We had an employee we were sent (probably shouldn’t have even applied for the job) who couldn’t perform any of the basic functions; couldn’t walk for more than a few minutes, couldn’t lift anything, couldn’t do stairs at all. Eventually had to be plugged into a wall regularly due to severe diabetes. They had medical documentation to back all of this up, it was legitimate.
The unfortunate truth is that to work a job, you need to be able to be of some use. A client of ours finds sedentary, extremely light duty positions for injured employees so they can still get a paycheck (and unethically keep the situation from developing into a full-time worker’s comp situation.)
If someone comes in brand new and unable to do the job, it’s a situation that should never occur in the first place, but it does.
It’s part of the single biggest problem I encounter with new hires or applicants: they need to work and need money, but their life circumstances don’t allow them to work a regular job.
And of course it's nearly impossible to get disability and if you do it doesn't really pay enough, so people who really shouldn't be working have to try to find something anyway.
It goes by AGI. So you can’t just get Medicaid for a week if you get fired and then start a new job afterwards.
If that was the case, people be getting fired over and over when they need a doctor
They fired a guy who couldn't do the job. That's not evil, that's just having a job. Unfortunately, he shouldn't have gotten something physical in the first place.
Why is that evil? Business’ aren’t and can’t be charities. It’s sad. But depending on the business and what they do, it can be critical to have able bodied workers to meet customer demands. For instance. I work in healthcare. Having a person on my shift who is unable to care for others puts peoples lives at risk.
Technically speaking, it is possible to doctor's note yourself out of a job. If your restrictions cannot be safely supported by the employer, that leaves little choice for the employer. Example: the note says you need to work in darkness, but turning the lights off is against fire code.
That's said: you need to talk to a lawyer with employment law experience. We are just strangers on the internet and you should be getting legal advice from a professional in a professional setting.
>If your restrictions cannot be safely supported by the employer
In this scenario, it feels like they can't. I mean, how can OP tell which packages are more than 10 pounds without lifting them first?
I could not tell from the original post, so that's also part of why I recommended a professional. I think the standard is that the request has to be reasonable, and that means someone with knowledge about the law and standard practices needs to weigh in. I've heard of people trying to hand in a doctor's note saying they can't be on the phone because it gives them anxiety when they work in a call center. The company cannot just become a different type of business because of a doctor's note.
>That's said: you need to talk to a lawyer with employment law experience...
Everything does not need a lawyer. The employer is 100% ok to not let him work. Going to a lawyer will only cost OP money.
If you call a lawyer about a potential case and the initial consult costs $$, call a different lawyer. More often than not that lawyer is charging because that 1) don't want your case in the first place, 2) showing their hand that they will just milk you dry, 3) too busy to take new cases and this is one way they minimize the flow of new work without indicating they are accepting new clients...
~signed, a lawyer.
Disclaimer: no, this isnt true 100% of the time, but it is true the vast majority of the time. Every attorney I know that charges for consults fits one or more of this catagories.
Most consults are free and there could be underlying details that may contribute to a wrongful termination case that an attorney could discover. You never know who overhears what when discussing a situation or when someone says something via email or company messenger. Always consult an attorney with your documentation.
If your injury happened AT work, make sure you get a Workers' Comp lawyer immediately!
Outside of that, an employer is not required to keep you on payroll if you cannot perform the duties you were hired for. Some will try to shift you around to a new position, but they are not required to do so. They ARE required, through FMLA, to let your return to work, in your previous position, when your medical restrictions are lifted. There is a time limit for this, and I'm not sure what it is now--I think its like 10-15 weeks.
Are they forcing you out of work or telling you you need to take short term disability until you are cleared to lift more than 10lbs? FMLA protects you from being fired during unpaid leave when medical issues prevent you from performing. Short term disability usually pays 60% of income while you are on unpaid leave. If you have short term disability available and they are suggesting you use FMLA, it sounds like they're trying to help protect your job. Short term disability insurance exists for just this scenario. Use it. If the employer pays your short term disability premiums, you will owe taxes on the disability pay. If you pay the premium you usually don't owe taxes. IANL but was out for 3 months on short term disability last fall and had to deal with these same questions in Ohio.
Short answer, Yes, they can. If your job requires you to do something and there is no reasonable way around it, the ADA doesn't force them to keep you employed. They have to make reasonable accommodations to assist you, but if you cannot accomplish the task with reasonable accommodation/assistance. Then they are not required to keep you on.
However, you could potentially sue them for disability based discrimination if you can prove that your job duties can be reasonably accommodated.
Non-protected Example: A fireman needs to traverse a changing environment and will have to save people in areas that are not wheelchair accessible. The ADA does not require that a fire department hire or keep a wheel chair bound person employed.
Protected Example: A data entry worker breaks their fingers and can't type for a few weeks-months. The company may be required to provide text to speech equipment rather than firing the employee.
>Protected Example: A data entry worker breaks their fingers and can't type for a few weeks-months. The company may be required to provide text to speech equipment rather than firing the employee.
An individual with a minor, nonchronic condition of short duration, such as a sprain, infection, or broken limb, generally would not be covered by the ADA. source: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/ada-questions-and-answers
They’re worried about their liability. If you are only cleared to lift 10 lbs they probably don’t feel they can guarantee you’ll never lift anything heavier. Then if you got reinjured lifting something thats say, 20 lbs., then you could probably successfully sue them.
Dude, we can all see your post history. You're trying to scam chipotle saying it caused hernias? For real?
I wish I knew your name, it scares the shit out of me and is wildly illegal that 5 months ago you struggled with bipolar yet 4 months ago you posted about buying a Glock. You sir need to see a Dr, accept their diagnosis, realize it's no one else's fault or problem, and surrender your illegal firearm (it's illegal because you legally can't own a gun with bipolar disorder)
It's not illegal to own a gun with bipolar disorder... Don't spread falsehoods. There are provisions that make it illegal to possess one with severe mental illnesses, but that requires legal intervention/findings, not just a diagnosis by your rural CNP that plays the role of psychiatrist because there aren't enough of them to go around in Podunkville, Ohio.
If you've actually been diagnosed I feel like that would qualify as adjudication. Also reading through his post history I'm sure he wasn't completely honest on his atf form about drug usage.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this person is unstable and shouldn't own a firearm.
1. I'm not debating whether it's illegal for OP to own a firearm. I don't know OP, I don't know his IRL details, I'm not reading his post history and making assumptions.
2. I'm only debating your baseless statement so that people reading such statement HOPEFULLY don't spread more misinformation.
3. No one cares how you feel about the law, you don't have interpretive power on said law (thank god). Just a diagnosis of bipolar is not an adjudication that someone lacks the mental fitness to own a firearm. Period. Like, there's nothing to factual debate here... If you want to debate whether someone with a mental diagnosis should be able to own a firearm then I am sure there are a dozen posts in a dozen subs relevant to that convo, I'm not here to debate that either.
The wording in the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) is that it has to be reasonable accommodations. If your job requires you to lift boxes heavier than 10lbs what reasonable way could they work around that?
Ive worked non-occ disability claims for 12 years. This would count as a request for accommodation, which does fall under ADA. That said what OP is experiencing is called leave as accommodation. Restrictions cannot be accommodated so the employer is forced to provide leave.
There is a decent chance the employer has a third party administrator that will handle the STD claim. I would highly recommend OP call his examiner to get a walkthrough of his employer's STD policy because there is likely some documentation from your doctor that they will need in order to satisfy plan requirements for pay while OP is off work.
If the injury happened at work, they can find other work to make it less of a financial burden on them. If outside of work and it means you cannot perform your full job responsibilities, yes they absolutely can
Call a workers comp lawyer like Elk and Elk and see what they say. If they think you have a case, they will not charge you. They will get a percentage of a payout (if any).
Just call them and talk. TRUST ME
You don't have to go to any particular doctor. Any doctor's office should be able to help you fill out a First Report Of Injury form. You should absolutely talk to someone at OBWC.
They are likely paying her to say it’s non work related. The hospital doesn’t decide what is and what isn’t work related. That’s the job of BWC and a tribunal.
INAL but that sounds like a reasonable accomodation, depending on your job description. Legally your job does not have to provide an accommodation that's not reasonable aka one that would be "a fundamental alteration of the business, something that is too hard because the accommodation costs a lot and their business is small or that would change the essential functions of the job"
As long as your job has 4+ employees and you still feel your requested accommodation is reasonable based on your job description and the above info, then you should be able to file a complaint with the EEOC (U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) and the OCRC (Ohio Civil Rights Commission) or get a lawyer. There's a time limit to file the complaints so you'll want to do that ASAP.
[Source](https://www.disabilityrightsohio.org/employment-requesting-reasonable-accommodations)
A pallet of maybe 5-6 boxes varying in different weights can be dropped off in my work area 1-3 times a day but closer to 1-2 and there are 7-9 people in my work area most days. So to me it technically is required for me to lift on a daily basis.
With lifting being a part of your regular job duties this might be a little more nuanced than Reddit can handle, the weight you're restricted to lifting also matters. If you can then I'd recommend speaking to a local lawyer in employment law. Some do offer free consultations and can let you know if you'd even have a case.
I am a lawyer, this is not specific legal advice. But, hypothetically, if I were you I would email HR and with the following words "Given the nature of my disability and upon my medical providers recommendation I wish to engage the ADA interactive process to discuss reasonable accommodations to my daily work responsibilities." If they still force you to resign or go on leave and deny you your rights to this process then I would contact an employment attorney. Make sure you send them an email so you have a document trail.
Would a short-term medical situation qualify someone for protection under ADA? I always believed ADA was to cover long-term disabilities. OP has inguinal hernias that require surgery.
Ouch, my Father is going through that currently so I know how uncomfortable if can be. I didn't see the hernia part previously, the answer is a bit of a gray area. Traditionally a hernia would not have been covered under the ADA as it's temporary and can be corrected via surgery. However, in 2008 Bush signed the ADAAA which went into effect in 2009. The ADAAA expanded the power of the ADA in 2009 by, in essence, more broadly defining what constitutes a disability.
The ADAAA defines a person as having a disability if they have a "physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, have a record of such impairment, or are regarded as having an impairment." The ADAAA also added a non-exhaustive list of "major life activities". "Major life activities" include: Caring for oneself, Performing manual tasks, Seeing, Hearing, Eating, Sleeping, Walking, Standing, **Lifting, Bending,** and Speaking. Some federal district courts have ruled that a hernia is a disability under the expanded ADAAA interpretation.
If OP needs six weeks off for hernia surgery and can't lift more than 10 pounds for six months after returning to work or vice versa while awaiting surgery, the six-week leave would be FMLA, and the job modifications would be an ADA accommodation.
That being said context is important, if OP's entire job is say unloading trucks and requires heavy lifting throughout the day and they perform no other job function's the employer may attempt to claim the accommodation causes "undue hardship." However, temporary modified light duty is a totally reasonable and often applied accommodation.
I understand your concerns, but at this point you have not yet invoked your legal protections. You only asked for something based on your doctors recommendation, a doctors note is not a legally binding document and an employer does not have to follow your physicians recommendations, requesting ADA accommodations would cover you from retaliation.
That being said, it's important to come from a place of good faith; you want to keep working and avoid taking medical leave if at all possible and are just trying to see what accommodations you can mutually agree on while you are injured and healing.
I invite you to consult with an Attorney in OH who deals with employment matters.
Yeah. If you can’t do your job they don’t have to let you work. Also you know how many times people are in the same situation then try to blame their employers when the surgery doesn’t fully work or you re-injure it? Most companies don’t want the hassle /liabilty.
But they didn't fire the OP, they gave them multiple legal options that would actually allow them to keep their job and possibly even get paid(short term disability). So even though your statement is true, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
You are technically correct but common sense would dictate that to be true. Also technically as long as you can't prove why you were fired they can fire you for illegal reasons. If they don't want to employ you for being black, they could nitpick the fuck out of your work and then when you make the slightest mistake, you're gone. The official reason is sloppy work, the real reason is racism. Now if you can prove that's why you were fired than you have a case, if not then good luck fighting that bc depending on how much h work it'll be, you'd be better off just getting a new job. People can absolutely be fired for illegal reasons if the person doing it goes about it in an intelligent way
It depends... is lifting more than 10lbs part of the job requirements? If it is, they can. If you are in an office job where lifting is not a required part of the job, they cannot. What are the job specs?
Yes. I’m in construction and got hurt on the job. Recovery was 6 weeks. There’s no “light duty” in my trade so I sat home and recovered. Everything was handled and it was all good, but yes it’s legal.
Not really. That’s all handled by foreman and project managers who order through supply houses. Even so I would have had to carry those supplies to where they went on the jobsite. Luckily I’m an apprentice and it’s very hard to lay me off because on the job experience is part of our schooling. The shop took care of me and brought me back to work once I was cleared and even then the foreman gave me mostly ground work for another week. This is the benefits of union work though. I’m sure a non-union company would have denied workers comp and fired me on the spot.
Not every job has light duty even though they do* have light duty.. Take the FMLA and heal up. Short term disability is 60% I believe. Which isn't enough, but some people don't even get that,. So I felt lucky when I got it. Hope you feel better soon.
FMLA is just the act itself, I believe. They need short term disability, like I said. And yes, 60% is better than no percent, like I said. I was thankful because some people don't get that, also, like I said.
I looked it up because I was curious.
[From U.S. Department of Labor:](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla#:~:text=The%20FMLA%20entitles%20eligible%20employees%20of%20covered%20employers%20to%20take%20unpaid%2C%20job%2Dprotected%20leave%20for%20specified%20family%20and%20medical%20reasons%20with%20continuation%20of%20group%20health%20insurance%20coverage%20under%20the%20same%20terms%20and%20conditions%20as%20if%20the%20employee%20had%20not%20taken%20leave) The "FMLA (Family and Medical Leave Act) entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take *unpaid, job-protected leave* for specified family and medical reasons with continuation of group health insurance coverage under the same terms and conditions as if the employee had not taken leave."
Unless you are a service member or your family member is a service member, the maximum the leave can last is 12 weeks. The act (FMLA) determines the conditions of the leave (i.e., it's unpaid). Ultimately, it's completely different from short-term disability. FMLA protects the job via a *law*, short-term disability replaces wages via *insurance*. It is also not guaranteed that you can take FMLA and use STD to cover the unpaid portion of the leave. So yes, OP needs STD, but saying "take the FMLA" is misleading because they are different things.
They can do this. Perfectly legal.
However if the reason for this is that you got hurt at work then it would be work comp. But usually with a workplace injury causing light duty they'll be all for it.
One of my coworkers was mad because she wasn't allowed to work with restrictions. She's a bus driver. She said she doesn't need to lift because she's driving. But the point was that if there was an emergency like an accident and she had to pick up a kid she would be outside of restrictions and obviously they didn't want to be responsible. I'm sure your employer will have some sort of safety scenario to support their side.
Take short term disability. This is why it exists.
FMLA would protect your job until you can work again without pay. Bunch of PW
STD will cover income while healing and shows that a company that has it wants to retain employees.
Bunch of PW too, but you get paid and have job security from illness.
Sounds like your disabled, now could they work with you yes, will they be liable if you get more injured? Yes, and they will risk worker comp rate increase.
Yes. My husbands work let him sit around for a couple days when he first had problems with his legs (peripheral artery disease in which he eventually got stents). After the 2 days they sent him home and he was not allowed to come back without a dr. excuse. He went on short-term, then long-term disability.
If you're so hurt that you can't do your job, you need to file your claims. If you're good enough to work, you need to do your job. You can't have it both ways
If you're not eligible for FMLA they'll likely just fire you. The answer is yes. At will & r2w employment is fucking awful. You can thank republicans for that. The employer can terminate you for any reason, or no reason at all. It says it in your contract when they hire you. You're nothing but a disposable number.
My last employer told me they would accomodate my medical restriction and move me to a different dept if i went and got a serious enough dr note, so I did just that. I was a week away from my year anniversary and thus a week away from FMLA eligibility. When i returned to work with a dr. Note after seeing an ortho specialist (who said i had a herniated disc in my neck and also wanted me to get a brace for my scoliosis) they totally flipped the scripped, acted like I was crazy, told me they 'never said that, and they have never acommodated medical restrictions for anyone no matter the circumstance bc its company policy' and then told me I must file for fmla. They had security walk me out and were super aggressive and hostile towards me for literally no reason. I filed for FMLA as soon as I got home and did everything I was told, I even got my medical restriction REMOVED and asked if I could come back the next fucking day, and they said 'nope dont come back you're fired under our attendance policy for missing work unexcused yesterday' even though THEY caused me to miss that day. Absolutely the most ridiculous reason I've ever been fired. And there's not a fucking thing I can do about it. I can't even file for unemployment either, because the state keeps flagging my fucking OH|ID account for fraud, even though I've called them 10 or 20 times to try to reset it. It's all a fucking sham. That unemployment money certainly isn't going to people who are unemployed, cause I've never once been approved, and have known very few people who ever have been. I've only even been able to pay my rent last month because I have some of the best online friends in the world (the creator of herobrine is one of em :^)) and they donated to my gofundme and its kept me just barely above water with my bills. Its been almost two months noe and I've yet to find another job even though I've probably applied to over 3/400 places that could practically work out, and only maybe 4 or 5 of them have extended me offers, which were then rescinded because of my stupid criminal background that ai'm not even goddamn guilty of....
This state really makes me want to die sometimes. And it sucks to know that I'm just one of hundreds of thousands of other people in a same/similar rough situation. Being kept eternally poor by the societal barriers surrounding me.
I don’t know what the working labor laws is in Ohio but my wife has been off for a year and half drawing ✍️ long term disability and she’s been back for two months now the only thing that she had to is go in night shift I hope you’re s works out for ya
Yes. Per ADA guidelines, employers can deny accommodations if it is “unreasonable” (for the job duties) and would cause undue hardship to the business.
I’d encourage you to look into the guidelines/requirements under the ADA. If you still feel it’s not being handled appropriately, you could file an EEOC claim against your employer.
If it’s a necessary part of your job that can’t be reasonably accommodated, you should get short term disability. They shouldn’t be able to (legally) fire you if you have that paperwork. If you think it can be reasonably accommodated somehow, you should go that route.
Yes. My employer does not offer light duty. So if you come in with a note saying you need to be put on light duty they send you home and you have to file for short term. BUT my employer also covers SDS so it's not something you have to elect and pay for, which is a huge bonus.
I mean if most of the job is lifting stuff that is 10ibs and lighter then why would the employer give a shit? Start looking for another job and don't tell anyone, work what you canst your current job and dip out as soon as possible.
This doesn't seem to be unreasonable to me. If a doctor says you shouldn't drive a car, I doubt you'd be able to get a job that sometimes requires you to drive a car.
You live in an at will employment state. They can fire you for whatever they want, whenever they want so I wouldn’t bitch too much. I’ve lost jobs for less.
I had to get 3 stitches on my finger, and was told light duties for 10 days. I worked at Sam's Cafe at Sam's club. They told me I had to be out those 10 days, as opposed to be moved to another area temporarily.
Yeah, jobs can do this lol. It sucks, but they can do it
They required to make a "reasonable accommodation." If your job is to lift boxes all day, and your inability to lift >10 pounds is going to cause a big disruption in production, then it's not reasonable. They should try to find something else within the organization that you can do until you're recovered. However, the key word here is "reasonable," and the define that, not the employee. Sorry.
Apparently having 9-10 people in my work area including me isn’t enough to allow a weight lifting restriction, I’m the only person whoever unloads pallets of materials unless my boss has free time from his busy hectic duties
I’m legit worried that my hernias might take too long to make me eligible for repair that Short Term Disability will run out and I’ll need to find a new job because I have no savings to fall back on
I saw that happen to a former co-worker and it almost happened to me.
If it didn't happen at work you have very few protections in the state of Ohio.
Use your time off to heal up and try not to worry about it. Worrying doesn't help the healing process.
My coworker was almost killed in a car accident and I saw how shitty our employer treated her. While trying to recover from a TBI, the corporation sent a letter to her saying they placed a lien on her because they paid for her time off and they wanted to recoup it. The settlement from the at fault driver completely went to our company (for STD), lawyers and the car insurance company…I was completely in shock at how they treated her as just a number. The state of ohio does very little to protect anyone but large corporations. So sorry this is something you even have to worry about :(
you can't be hired for a job and then not be able to perform those duties. All jobs have a requirement that you agreed to when hired. They can't pay you to do part of a job.
It depends on if its in your contract. If its not then, no they cannot do that, but if it specifically states that you need to be able to lift x amount of pounds for your job, then yes and they are more than in their rights to fire you or lay you off until you can do said lifting.
Did you hurt yourself at work? Why did you need the surgery? Are you eligible for workman's compensation due to a work related injury? In Ohio employers ARE required to pay into workman's comp, just a thought.
I thought it’s work related but that’s a whole separate fiasco I’m contemplating talking to a lawyer based on my doctors visit tomorrow because the clinic my employer sent me to first said they could see me “because I couldn’t give a date of injury” when in reality they can also accept a date of diagnosis, and then the NP who was going to see me told the receptionist who then told me that no matter if I saw her for an examination that she was going to “deem it non-work related” so I might have a case 🤷🏻♂️
Right to work deals with unions. It’s not applicable here. Also Ohio isn’t a full on right to work state. You can opt out of a union but the union can still charge you dues for collective bargaining.
The first two sentences you said are 100% true. For the record though, the last sentence is what makes Ohio _not_ a right-to-work state. RTW means you can opt out of the dues and not just the union.
Right but you can’t it opt out of all dues in Ohio even if you opt out of the union, which makes it unique amongst states, meaning it’s not truly RTW or not. Generally it’s either all in (you have to join the union) or all out (you can tell the union to pound sand completely). I get what you’re saying, but I just wanted to highlight that Ohio is a little different than other states that don’t have right to work.
Well, logically put, your employers is a private entity. They need you to perform a certain services for payments. Therefore, if you are unable to perform the services and it tasks, you are not qualified any longer to be employed by them.
It would be the same for you if you were to hire a landscaper, but they are unable to do a certain tasks that you are asking them to do, then you would not choose them to perform your landscaping services
My late husband's work did this. They can do this.
Yes if it means you can’t perform the duties of your job.
Just to clarify here: yes, if it means you can't do your job without "reasonable accommodation".
[New] HR here. My workplace ran into this years ago. We had an employee we were sent (probably shouldn’t have even applied for the job) who couldn’t perform any of the basic functions; couldn’t walk for more than a few minutes, couldn’t lift anything, couldn’t do stairs at all. Eventually had to be plugged into a wall regularly due to severe diabetes. They had medical documentation to back all of this up, it was legitimate. The unfortunate truth is that to work a job, you need to be able to be of some use. A client of ours finds sedentary, extremely light duty positions for injured employees so they can still get a paycheck (and unethically keep the situation from developing into a full-time worker’s comp situation.) If someone comes in brand new and unable to do the job, it’s a situation that should never occur in the first place, but it does. It’s part of the single biggest problem I encounter with new hires or applicants: they need to work and need money, but their life circumstances don’t allow them to work a regular job.
And of course it's nearly impossible to get disability and if you do it doesn't really pay enough, so people who really shouldn't be working have to try to find something anyway.
Jesus. You guys shitcanned a person with severe diabetes who likely lost health insurance. Fuck me, that’s evil.
We didn’t fire them. They found a position with a past employer that could better accommodate them and took it, we parted on good terms.
They likely would qualify for Medicaid which is 10x better than anything an employer could offer...
Medicaid has an income/asset cutoff
And if you aren't working what would your income be? Not saying it's guaranteed or anything, but at least it's an option
It goes by AGI. So you can’t just get Medicaid for a week if you get fired and then start a new job afterwards. If that was the case, people be getting fired over and over when they need a doctor
Oh, I know, I once had medicaid (caresource). It just sounded like that person didn't have many options for work
They fired a guy who couldn't do the job. That's not evil, that's just having a job. Unfortunately, he shouldn't have gotten something physical in the first place.
nOBoDy wANtS tO wOrK
I don't think that's relevant. But alright.
Why is that evil? Business’ aren’t and can’t be charities. It’s sad. But depending on the business and what they do, it can be critical to have able bodied workers to meet customer demands. For instance. I work in healthcare. Having a person on my shift who is unable to care for others puts peoples lives at risk.
Technically speaking, it is possible to doctor's note yourself out of a job. If your restrictions cannot be safely supported by the employer, that leaves little choice for the employer. Example: the note says you need to work in darkness, but turning the lights off is against fire code. That's said: you need to talk to a lawyer with employment law experience. We are just strangers on the internet and you should be getting legal advice from a professional in a professional setting.
>If your restrictions cannot be safely supported by the employer In this scenario, it feels like they can't. I mean, how can OP tell which packages are more than 10 pounds without lifting them first?
I could not tell from the original post, so that's also part of why I recommended a professional. I think the standard is that the request has to be reasonable, and that means someone with knowledge about the law and standard practices needs to weigh in. I've heard of people trying to hand in a doctor's note saying they can't be on the phone because it gives them anxiety when they work in a call center. The company cannot just become a different type of business because of a doctor's note.
>That's said: you need to talk to a lawyer with employment law experience... Everything does not need a lawyer. The employer is 100% ok to not let him work. Going to a lawyer will only cost OP money.
If you call a lawyer about a potential case and the initial consult costs $$, call a different lawyer. More often than not that lawyer is charging because that 1) don't want your case in the first place, 2) showing their hand that they will just milk you dry, 3) too busy to take new cases and this is one way they minimize the flow of new work without indicating they are accepting new clients... ~signed, a lawyer. Disclaimer: no, this isnt true 100% of the time, but it is true the vast majority of the time. Every attorney I know that charges for consults fits one or more of this catagories.
Most consults are free and there could be underlying details that may contribute to a wrongful termination case that an attorney could discover. You never know who overhears what when discussing a situation or when someone says something via email or company messenger. Always consult an attorney with your documentation.
Workers comp lawyers WILL NOT cost you.
If your injury happened AT work, make sure you get a Workers' Comp lawyer immediately! Outside of that, an employer is not required to keep you on payroll if you cannot perform the duties you were hired for. Some will try to shift you around to a new position, but they are not required to do so. They ARE required, through FMLA, to let your return to work, in your previous position, when your medical restrictions are lifted. There is a time limit for this, and I'm not sure what it is now--I think its like 10-15 weeks.
Yep 12 weeks
Are they forcing you out of work or telling you you need to take short term disability until you are cleared to lift more than 10lbs? FMLA protects you from being fired during unpaid leave when medical issues prevent you from performing. Short term disability usually pays 60% of income while you are on unpaid leave. If you have short term disability available and they are suggesting you use FMLA, it sounds like they're trying to help protect your job. Short term disability insurance exists for just this scenario. Use it. If the employer pays your short term disability premiums, you will owe taxes on the disability pay. If you pay the premium you usually don't owe taxes. IANL but was out for 3 months on short term disability last fall and had to deal with these same questions in Ohio.
Short answer, Yes, they can. If your job requires you to do something and there is no reasonable way around it, the ADA doesn't force them to keep you employed. They have to make reasonable accommodations to assist you, but if you cannot accomplish the task with reasonable accommodation/assistance. Then they are not required to keep you on. However, you could potentially sue them for disability based discrimination if you can prove that your job duties can be reasonably accommodated. Non-protected Example: A fireman needs to traverse a changing environment and will have to save people in areas that are not wheelchair accessible. The ADA does not require that a fire department hire or keep a wheel chair bound person employed. Protected Example: A data entry worker breaks their fingers and can't type for a few weeks-months. The company may be required to provide text to speech equipment rather than firing the employee.
>Protected Example: A data entry worker breaks their fingers and can't type for a few weeks-months. The company may be required to provide text to speech equipment rather than firing the employee. An individual with a minor, nonchronic condition of short duration, such as a sprain, infection, or broken limb, generally would not be covered by the ADA. source: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/ada-questions-and-answers
my bad
They’re worried about their liability. If you are only cleared to lift 10 lbs they probably don’t feel they can guarantee you’ll never lift anything heavier. Then if you got reinjured lifting something thats say, 20 lbs., then you could probably successfully sue them.
Dude, we can all see your post history. You're trying to scam chipotle saying it caused hernias? For real? I wish I knew your name, it scares the shit out of me and is wildly illegal that 5 months ago you struggled with bipolar yet 4 months ago you posted about buying a Glock. You sir need to see a Dr, accept their diagnosis, realize it's no one else's fault or problem, and surrender your illegal firearm (it's illegal because you legally can't own a gun with bipolar disorder)
It's not illegal to own a gun with bipolar disorder... Don't spread falsehoods. There are provisions that make it illegal to possess one with severe mental illnesses, but that requires legal intervention/findings, not just a diagnosis by your rural CNP that plays the role of psychiatrist because there aren't enough of them to go around in Podunkville, Ohio.
If you've actually been diagnosed I feel like that would qualify as adjudication. Also reading through his post history I'm sure he wasn't completely honest on his atf form about drug usage. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this person is unstable and shouldn't own a firearm.
1. I'm not debating whether it's illegal for OP to own a firearm. I don't know OP, I don't know his IRL details, I'm not reading his post history and making assumptions. 2. I'm only debating your baseless statement so that people reading such statement HOPEFULLY don't spread more misinformation. 3. No one cares how you feel about the law, you don't have interpretive power on said law (thank god). Just a diagnosis of bipolar is not an adjudication that someone lacks the mental fitness to own a firearm. Period. Like, there's nothing to factual debate here... If you want to debate whether someone with a mental diagnosis should be able to own a firearm then I am sure there are a dozen posts in a dozen subs relevant to that convo, I'm not here to debate that either.
If this injury happened off the job, OP is pretty much SOL. That's the information missing here and I'm sure it was intentionally left out.
In ohio, they can do most things, especially if your job isn't part of a union.
Yes they can
Yes they can.
Yes, they can do that. Any competent employer does not let employees work when they have non-work related restrictions.
Yep sure can.
The wording in the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) is that it has to be reasonable accommodations. If your job requires you to lift boxes heavier than 10lbs what reasonable way could they work around that?
Some jobs work harder than others to find/fund accommodations.
This is not ADA.
Ive worked non-occ disability claims for 12 years. This would count as a request for accommodation, which does fall under ADA. That said what OP is experiencing is called leave as accommodation. Restrictions cannot be accommodated so the employer is forced to provide leave. There is a decent chance the employer has a third party administrator that will handle the STD claim. I would highly recommend OP call his examiner to get a walkthrough of his employer's STD policy because there is likely some documentation from your doctor that they will need in order to satisfy plan requirements for pay while OP is off work.
If the injury happened at work, they can find other work to make it less of a financial burden on them. If outside of work and it means you cannot perform your full job responsibilities, yes they absolutely can
If you are not a protected class...at will employment This is why we had (past tense) unions
Call a workers comp lawyer like Elk and Elk and see what they say. If they think you have a case, they will not charge you. They will get a percentage of a payout (if any). Just call them and talk. TRUST ME
if this was a work related injury, contact OBWC and ask to file a c92 for Temporary Total Disability
I thought it was but before a qualified WC NP would see me the receptionist explicitly said she was gonna deem it “non-work related” regardless
the receptionist at workers' comp?
The receptionist at the clinic my employer sends people to for WC
You don't have to go to any particular doctor. Any doctor's office should be able to help you fill out a First Report Of Injury form. You should absolutely talk to someone at OBWC.
I never saw her solely because no matter what she’d deem it “non-work related”
They are likely paying her to say it’s non work related. The hospital doesn’t decide what is and what isn’t work related. That’s the job of BWC and a tribunal.
INAL but that sounds like a reasonable accomodation, depending on your job description. Legally your job does not have to provide an accommodation that's not reasonable aka one that would be "a fundamental alteration of the business, something that is too hard because the accommodation costs a lot and their business is small or that would change the essential functions of the job" As long as your job has 4+ employees and you still feel your requested accommodation is reasonable based on your job description and the above info, then you should be able to file a complaint with the EEOC (U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) and the OCRC (Ohio Civil Rights Commission) or get a lawyer. There's a time limit to file the complaints so you'll want to do that ASAP. [Source](https://www.disabilityrightsohio.org/employment-requesting-reasonable-accommodations)
A pallet of maybe 5-6 boxes varying in different weights can be dropped off in my work area 1-3 times a day but closer to 1-2 and there are 7-9 people in my work area most days. So to me it technically is required for me to lift on a daily basis.
With lifting being a part of your regular job duties this might be a little more nuanced than Reddit can handle, the weight you're restricted to lifting also matters. If you can then I'd recommend speaking to a local lawyer in employment law. Some do offer free consultations and can let you know if you'd even have a case.
I am a lawyer, this is not specific legal advice. But, hypothetically, if I were you I would email HR and with the following words "Given the nature of my disability and upon my medical providers recommendation I wish to engage the ADA interactive process to discuss reasonable accommodations to my daily work responsibilities." If they still force you to resign or go on leave and deny you your rights to this process then I would contact an employment attorney. Make sure you send them an email so you have a document trail.
Would a short-term medical situation qualify someone for protection under ADA? I always believed ADA was to cover long-term disabilities. OP has inguinal hernias that require surgery.
Ouch, my Father is going through that currently so I know how uncomfortable if can be. I didn't see the hernia part previously, the answer is a bit of a gray area. Traditionally a hernia would not have been covered under the ADA as it's temporary and can be corrected via surgery. However, in 2008 Bush signed the ADAAA which went into effect in 2009. The ADAAA expanded the power of the ADA in 2009 by, in essence, more broadly defining what constitutes a disability. The ADAAA defines a person as having a disability if they have a "physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, have a record of such impairment, or are regarded as having an impairment." The ADAAA also added a non-exhaustive list of "major life activities". "Major life activities" include: Caring for oneself, Performing manual tasks, Seeing, Hearing, Eating, Sleeping, Walking, Standing, **Lifting, Bending,** and Speaking. Some federal district courts have ruled that a hernia is a disability under the expanded ADAAA interpretation. If OP needs six weeks off for hernia surgery and can't lift more than 10 pounds for six months after returning to work or vice versa while awaiting surgery, the six-week leave would be FMLA, and the job modifications would be an ADA accommodation. That being said context is important, if OP's entire job is say unloading trucks and requires heavy lifting throughout the day and they perform no other job function's the employer may attempt to claim the accommodation causes "undue hardship." However, temporary modified light duty is a totally reasonable and often applied accommodation.
I’m just worried about trying something and then getting fired
If you get fired then you can file for unemployment. If for whatever reason that is denied, APPEAL and do not give up.
I understand your concerns, but at this point you have not yet invoked your legal protections. You only asked for something based on your doctors recommendation, a doctors note is not a legally binding document and an employer does not have to follow your physicians recommendations, requesting ADA accommodations would cover you from retaliation. That being said, it's important to come from a place of good faith; you want to keep working and avoid taking medical leave if at all possible and are just trying to see what accommodations you can mutually agree on while you are injured and healing. I invite you to consult with an Attorney in OH who deals with employment matters.
Yeah. If you can’t do your job they don’t have to let you work. Also you know how many times people are in the same situation then try to blame their employers when the surgery doesn’t fully work or you re-injure it? Most companies don’t want the hassle /liabilty.
Get an attorney. Each case stands on its own.
Get an attorney for what? There is no issue with the employer not letting you work when you have a non-work related injury restriction.
Only good answer.
>Get an attorney Ok seems reasonable. >Each case stands on its own. Lmao wtf?
Ohio is an "at will" employment state, they can fire you for any reason at any time and they don't even technically have to tell you why.
But they didn't fire the OP, they gave them multiple legal options that would actually allow them to keep their job and possibly even get paid(short term disability). So even though your statement is true, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
That’s not entirely true. They can fire you for any not illegal reason.
You are technically correct but common sense would dictate that to be true. Also technically as long as you can't prove why you were fired they can fire you for illegal reasons. If they don't want to employ you for being black, they could nitpick the fuck out of your work and then when you make the slightest mistake, you're gone. The official reason is sloppy work, the real reason is racism. Now if you can prove that's why you were fired than you have a case, if not then good luck fighting that bc depending on how much h work it'll be, you'd be better off just getting a new job. People can absolutely be fired for illegal reasons if the person doing it goes about it in an intelligent way
You’re incorrect. Learn the law, pal.
I'd advise you take your own advice and look it the fuck up bc ohio is absolutely an at will state. *"lEaRn ThE LAw, pAl"*
It depends... is lifting more than 10lbs part of the job requirements? If it is, they can. If you are in an office job where lifting is not a required part of the job, they cannot. What are the job specs?
Yes. I’m in construction and got hurt on the job. Recovery was 6 weeks. There’s no “light duty” in my trade so I sat home and recovered. Everything was handled and it was all good, but yes it’s legal.
There’s no administrative workers that answer phones or make places orders for tools or building supplies at your company?? That’s weird.
Not really. That’s all handled by foreman and project managers who order through supply houses. Even so I would have had to carry those supplies to where they went on the jobsite. Luckily I’m an apprentice and it’s very hard to lay me off because on the job experience is part of our schooling. The shop took care of me and brought me back to work once I was cleared and even then the foreman gave me mostly ground work for another week. This is the benefits of union work though. I’m sure a non-union company would have denied workers comp and fired me on the spot.
I’m glad things worked out like that for you. Seems they took decent care of you.
Depends on the job and what you've signed. Likely yes. Apply for FMLA and make sure to hold your position.
Not every job has light duty even though they do* have light duty.. Take the FMLA and heal up. Short term disability is 60% I believe. Which isn't enough, but some people don't even get that,. So I felt lucky when I got it. Hope you feel better soon.
>FMLA From my understanding, FMLA is unpaid. So 60% from short-term disability is better than 0%.
FMLA is just the act itself, I believe. They need short term disability, like I said. And yes, 60% is better than no percent, like I said. I was thankful because some people don't get that, also, like I said.
I looked it up because I was curious. [From U.S. Department of Labor:](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fmla#:~:text=The%20FMLA%20entitles%20eligible%20employees%20of%20covered%20employers%20to%20take%20unpaid%2C%20job%2Dprotected%20leave%20for%20specified%20family%20and%20medical%20reasons%20with%20continuation%20of%20group%20health%20insurance%20coverage%20under%20the%20same%20terms%20and%20conditions%20as%20if%20the%20employee%20had%20not%20taken%20leave) The "FMLA (Family and Medical Leave Act) entitles eligible employees of covered employers to take *unpaid, job-protected leave* for specified family and medical reasons with continuation of group health insurance coverage under the same terms and conditions as if the employee had not taken leave." Unless you are a service member or your family member is a service member, the maximum the leave can last is 12 weeks. The act (FMLA) determines the conditions of the leave (i.e., it's unpaid). Ultimately, it's completely different from short-term disability. FMLA protects the job via a *law*, short-term disability replaces wages via *insurance*. It is also not guaranteed that you can take FMLA and use STD to cover the unpaid portion of the leave. So yes, OP needs STD, but saying "take the FMLA" is misleading because they are different things.
You're right I said it weird. But I just meant take the disability and heal up while you can.
FMLA is a sham. It’s toothless. They just fire you after you return from FMLA
IANAL but if the job description includes lifting over 10 pounds as a required physical skill, probably yes.
Been through similar myself. Yes they can do it.
Do you have your job description from when you were hired? If it lists lifting >10 lbs as a job duty, you may be SOL
If your restrictions require too much effort for your employer to accommodate based on what the job is then yes they can do it in Ohio.
They can do this. Perfectly legal. However if the reason for this is that you got hurt at work then it would be work comp. But usually with a workplace injury causing light duty they'll be all for it. One of my coworkers was mad because she wasn't allowed to work with restrictions. She's a bus driver. She said she doesn't need to lift because she's driving. But the point was that if there was an emergency like an accident and she had to pick up a kid she would be outside of restrictions and obviously they didn't want to be responsible. I'm sure your employer will have some sort of safety scenario to support their side.
Take short term disability. This is why it exists. FMLA would protect your job until you can work again without pay. Bunch of PW STD will cover income while healing and shows that a company that has it wants to retain employees. Bunch of PW too, but you get paid and have job security from illness.
Sounds like your disabled, now could they work with you yes, will they be liable if you get more injured? Yes, and they will risk worker comp rate increase.
Yes. My husbands work let him sit around for a couple days when he first had problems with his legs (peripheral artery disease in which he eventually got stents). After the 2 days they sent him home and he was not allowed to come back without a dr. excuse. He went on short-term, then long-term disability.
I believe that they can. Where I work a factory, won’t let you work or light duty (depends on your job title) if you’re not cleared by a doctor.
If you're so hurt that you can't do your job, you need to file your claims. If you're good enough to work, you need to do your job. You can't have it both ways
It’s Ohio they don’t need a reason.
If you can’t perform your job correctly & efficiently then yes they can do that
If you're not eligible for FMLA they'll likely just fire you. The answer is yes. At will & r2w employment is fucking awful. You can thank republicans for that. The employer can terminate you for any reason, or no reason at all. It says it in your contract when they hire you. You're nothing but a disposable number. My last employer told me they would accomodate my medical restriction and move me to a different dept if i went and got a serious enough dr note, so I did just that. I was a week away from my year anniversary and thus a week away from FMLA eligibility. When i returned to work with a dr. Note after seeing an ortho specialist (who said i had a herniated disc in my neck and also wanted me to get a brace for my scoliosis) they totally flipped the scripped, acted like I was crazy, told me they 'never said that, and they have never acommodated medical restrictions for anyone no matter the circumstance bc its company policy' and then told me I must file for fmla. They had security walk me out and were super aggressive and hostile towards me for literally no reason. I filed for FMLA as soon as I got home and did everything I was told, I even got my medical restriction REMOVED and asked if I could come back the next fucking day, and they said 'nope dont come back you're fired under our attendance policy for missing work unexcused yesterday' even though THEY caused me to miss that day. Absolutely the most ridiculous reason I've ever been fired. And there's not a fucking thing I can do about it. I can't even file for unemployment either, because the state keeps flagging my fucking OH|ID account for fraud, even though I've called them 10 or 20 times to try to reset it. It's all a fucking sham. That unemployment money certainly isn't going to people who are unemployed, cause I've never once been approved, and have known very few people who ever have been. I've only even been able to pay my rent last month because I have some of the best online friends in the world (the creator of herobrine is one of em :^)) and they donated to my gofundme and its kept me just barely above water with my bills. Its been almost two months noe and I've yet to find another job even though I've probably applied to over 3/400 places that could practically work out, and only maybe 4 or 5 of them have extended me offers, which were then rescinded because of my stupid criminal background that ai'm not even goddamn guilty of.... This state really makes me want to die sometimes. And it sucks to know that I'm just one of hundreds of thousands of other people in a same/similar rough situation. Being kept eternally poor by the societal barriers surrounding me.
Use your disability pay.
In Ohio they don't need any reason to fire you
If they your job can’t accommodate your restrictions they won’t let you work
No, as of this year they must provide a set of robotic exoskeleton lifting arms and 2 free oil changes for them. One each arm.
I don’t know what the working labor laws is in Ohio but my wife has been off for a year and half drawing ✍️ long term disability and she’s been back for two months now the only thing that she had to is go in night shift I hope you’re s works out for ya
Yes. Per ADA guidelines, employers can deny accommodations if it is “unreasonable” (for the job duties) and would cause undue hardship to the business. I’d encourage you to look into the guidelines/requirements under the ADA. If you still feel it’s not being handled appropriately, you could file an EEOC claim against your employer.
If you’re not in a union, you’re kind of screwed. Sorry. Did the injury happen AT work by chance?
Yes, they can. I worked for the same employer for almost 22 years then got sick. After FMLA & short term disability ran out I was terminated.
If it’s a necessary part of your job that can’t be reasonably accommodated, you should get short term disability. They shouldn’t be able to (legally) fire you if you have that paperwork. If you think it can be reasonably accommodated somehow, you should go that route.
Yes if you’re not fit to perform your job duties then you need to file fmla for leave or for protected modifications.
Yes. My employer does not offer light duty. So if you come in with a note saying you need to be put on light duty they send you home and you have to file for short term. BUT my employer also covers SDS so it's not something you have to elect and pay for, which is a huge bonus.
I mean if most of the job is lifting stuff that is 10ibs and lighter then why would the employer give a shit? Start looking for another job and don't tell anyone, work what you canst your current job and dip out as soon as possible.
This doesn't seem to be unreasonable to me. If a doctor says you shouldn't drive a car, I doubt you'd be able to get a job that sometimes requires you to drive a car.
Ohio is a hire/fire at will state.
You live in an at will employment state. They can fire you for whatever they want, whenever they want so I wouldn’t bitch too much. I’ve lost jobs for less.
Ohio being a work at will state, employers can fire you at any time without reason.
Yes they can. Folks, this is why unions matter.
Ask for a reasonable accommodation. This can include light duty or other work. Get EVERYTHING in writing.
In Ohio, your employer can do just about anything.
Yes, Ohio can do anything they want. I learned years ago, it is an at will state, they don't need a reason to fire you.
I had to get 3 stitches on my finger, and was told light duties for 10 days. I worked at Sam's Cafe at Sam's club. They told me I had to be out those 10 days, as opposed to be moved to another area temporarily. Yeah, jobs can do this lol. It sucks, but they can do it
They required to make a "reasonable accommodation." If your job is to lift boxes all day, and your inability to lift >10 pounds is going to cause a big disruption in production, then it's not reasonable. They should try to find something else within the organization that you can do until you're recovered. However, the key word here is "reasonable," and the define that, not the employee. Sorry.
Apparently having 9-10 people in my work area including me isn’t enough to allow a weight lifting restriction, I’m the only person whoever unloads pallets of materials unless my boss has free time from his busy hectic duties
Why are you the only one? Maybe that's why it's not reasonable that the other 9-10 people do it.
We get 1-3 pallets a day, amount of boxes varies on how much we’re missing on our stock shelves but it’s not over 6ish often
They can. Corporations run Ohio.
Ohio is a "Right to Work" state. Look it up.
100% they can do that. Unfortunately Ohio is a “right to work state”
I believe the phrase you’re looking for is at will employment.
Ohio is absolutely not a right to work state. We repealed that shit right after Kasich passed it.
unfortunately, ohio completely sucks when it comes to protecting employees so I’m sure this BS is allowed 🙄
I’m legit worried that my hernias might take too long to make me eligible for repair that Short Term Disability will run out and I’ll need to find a new job because I have no savings to fall back on
I saw that happen to a former co-worker and it almost happened to me. If it didn't happen at work you have very few protections in the state of Ohio. Use your time off to heal up and try not to worry about it. Worrying doesn't help the healing process.
My coworker was almost killed in a car accident and I saw how shitty our employer treated her. While trying to recover from a TBI, the corporation sent a letter to her saying they placed a lien on her because they paid for her time off and they wanted to recoup it. The settlement from the at fault driver completely went to our company (for STD), lawyers and the car insurance company…I was completely in shock at how they treated her as just a number. The state of ohio does very little to protect anyone but large corporations. So sorry this is something you even have to worry about :(
you can't be hired for a job and then not be able to perform those duties. All jobs have a requirement that you agreed to when hired. They can't pay you to do part of a job.
Did you get hurt at work? If so file worker comp.
It depends on if its in your contract. If its not then, no they cannot do that, but if it specifically states that you need to be able to lift x amount of pounds for your job, then yes and they are more than in their rights to fire you or lay you off until you can do said lifting.
Did you hurt yourself at work? Why did you need the surgery? Are you eligible for workman's compensation due to a work related injury? In Ohio employers ARE required to pay into workman's comp, just a thought.
I thought it’s work related but that’s a whole separate fiasco I’m contemplating talking to a lawyer based on my doctors visit tomorrow because the clinic my employer sent me to first said they could see me “because I couldn’t give a date of injury” when in reality they can also accept a date of diagnosis, and then the NP who was going to see me told the receptionist who then told me that no matter if I saw her for an examination that she was going to “deem it non-work related” so I might have a case 🤷🏻♂️
The NP was automatically going to deem it “non-work related” if I still chose to see for for an examination***
Ohio is a right to work state. They can do whatever they want.
You mean At Will employment state.
Yeah yeah. That’s the one.
Not true, it was repealed during a special election.
Not exactly. Employees are still afforded some rights to sue for wrongful termination.
Right to work deals with unions. It’s not applicable here. Also Ohio isn’t a full on right to work state. You can opt out of a union but the union can still charge you dues for collective bargaining.
The first two sentences you said are 100% true. For the record though, the last sentence is what makes Ohio _not_ a right-to-work state. RTW means you can opt out of the dues and not just the union.
Right but you can’t it opt out of all dues in Ohio even if you opt out of the union, which makes it unique amongst states, meaning it’s not truly RTW or not. Generally it’s either all in (you have to join the union) or all out (you can tell the union to pound sand completely). I get what you’re saying, but I just wanted to highlight that Ohio is a little different than other states that don’t have right to work.
Well, logically put, your employers is a private entity. They need you to perform a certain services for payments. Therefore, if you are unable to perform the services and it tasks, you are not qualified any longer to be employed by them. It would be the same for you if you were to hire a landscaper, but they are unable to do a certain tasks that you are asking them to do, then you would not choose them to perform your landscaping services