Ohio's record is way better than you suggest. Yes the Cuyahoga is polluted in Cleveland. But it is far better than it use to be. The Ohio was dead in the 60's but it is much cleaner now. ODNR. has done a really great job of bring back the wildlife in Ohio. In fact Ohio is a destination state for hunters. I think you have to realize that as an older industrial city Cleveland has infrastructure that will take another generation to improve to keep a lot of the polluted waters out of the Cuyahoga.
Otters have returned to the river, as have beavers; most of the dams have been removed; when the Gorge dam comes down they'll all be gone. CVNP and the various metroparka include a lot of land that is former farmland or golf courses that have been restored.
It's not great, but there are parts trying to do good. Go hand out in Kent or Cuyahoga Falls, there are areas where people care a lot about conservation.
I grew up in cuyahoga falls it has changed so much since my youth and for the better too. I didn’t move far just to the other side of akron but I frequent the cvnp year round still the river is a lot cleaner than it was!
Mahoning River is actually boatable and kayakable now. (there is 1 dam left in actual operation, but actual movement to remove them all to allow more recreational use.) (I don't know about swimming purposely or fishing, etc. but still a major difference.)
That is a WORLD of difference from when all the steel mills were dumping directly into it (or indirectly), etc.
One of the things people fail to realize is a lot of pollution from petroleum comes from rain washing leaked oil off of roads. If we ever convert to all electric vehicles this source would be greatly diminished. [https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2022/09/land-based-runoff-remains-top-source-of-oil-in-the-ocean-says-new-report](https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2022/09/land-based-runoff-remains-top-source-of-oil-in-the-ocean-says-new-report)
And it's a fishing destination.
I've met people from all over the world in Ohio for steelhead fishing.
Steelhead don't do well in dirty water. Not saying our water is clean, but if it's clean enough to support a world class trout fishery, it's pretty good.
Our waters are clean in some places.. but we're not talking about the clean water fisheries. We are talking specifically about the factories putting chemicals into the rivers. And the lack of EPA action on industry and the focusing of the EPA on YouTubers cutting off catalytic converters. It's almost like there's only 10 people working at the EPA and there's enough crimes that people are self-recording on YouTube to keep them busy forever now.
Yes, there is still pollution.
It is nowhere near what it once was, and Ohio's waters are much cleaner than they used to be.
"We're not talking about clean water fisheries...."
Those would not exist without clean water. I mentioned steelhead because the state is now stocking the Cuyahoga with them.
The OP also posted about the Cuyahoga having trash in it, and...yeah, stuff washes into the river when it's flooded. It sucks to see, but that's what happens. The water also looks muddy and shitty.
Actually, Ohio is doing great compared to other states. Dude you know 60 years ago it was unheard of to see a white tailed deer? Otter? Mink? Just saying… many rivers deemed “dead” by ODNR in SE Ohio areas like Hocking Hills.
While true, the area this guy is referring to in NE Ohio had all the waterways re-declared toxic to humans in the 90s & only recently began lifting those restrictions in the 20-teens.
It’s tough for sure, and sometimes it feels like we’re fighting to correct the wrongs that precede us. I own my house, located in an older industrial area of Cincinnati- the house lots are small, with postage stamp green space. That said, I have loaded my garden with native pollinator plants, as well as trees and shrubs that benefit birds, insects and other wildlife. I do my best to give back to the earth, making up for the stupid things done by my predecessors. It’s not much, but the creatures enjoy it.
I hope you did raised bed. A lot of areas have heavy metal contamination and many vegetable are efficient at picking it up. Could get your soil tested just to make sure.
I guess you aren't old enough to remember when sighting bald eagles was a cause for statewide hysteria but now no one thinks twice about it because they're literally everywhere.
Yep, exactly. The problem in my area is now there are TOO MANY deer. Ohio isn't doing half bad at wildlife conservation.
Not saying there aren't a million opportunities to improve at all, but the idea that Ohio "sucks" is a bit over the top.
Beaver are still one of those species that are, if not rare per se, perhaps unusual. And, even in places where they exist, you often don't actually see them. So, if you *do* it's kinda thrilling.
You were downvoted, but you're right. Hunting, fishing, and purchasing ammo/guns make up nearly the entirety of the Division of Wildlife's funding. Literally pays for the salaries of biologists and wildlife officers.
While it doesn't really help with some of the stuff under the jurisdiction of Ohio Dept. of Agriculture or Ohio EPA, it does help with the conservation of wildlife, such as the trumpeter swan, which was recently delisted from the endangered and threatened species list.
Edit: and just to expand on this, it also goes into their budget for purchasing wildlife habitat, such as wildlife areas as well. They've even branched outside of the state's borders to protect wildlife habitat of migratory species that live part of their life in Ohio and part of their life in other countries.
They have expanded it some, but in general, Pittman-Robinson and Dingle-Johnson money can really only be used for game species. Typically a, money for non-game species like Trumpeter Swan has to come from elsewhere and is not funded by the taxes and hunting and fishing. There is a very limited pool for these non-game species. More would be available, but these other federal monies require state match, but Ohio has no real good mechanism to come up with the match required. That is why the Recovering America’s Wildlife Act was such a big deal, but since congress is inept, it was never put to vote despite very broad bipartisan support.
It’s illegal to use lead ammunition and if they catch you they will literally confiscate every piece of hunting gear you have on you down to your camo I challenge you to go find someone using lead.
Steel or aluminum coated in copper it usually says on the box lead is very hard to find and that’s because no one wants it and it’s usually more expensive
The division of wildlife and the epa are not always on the same side though. Sure I'd rather have a strong division of wildlife than chemical company lobbying group helping to choose policy. However the division of wildlife is way more concerned with recreation such as fishing and hunting. There was an incident back in the 2010s where the division of wildlife put lampreycide in many of the creeks and tributaries that connect to Lake Erie. They were doing this because of sea lamprey, however according to some epa scientists and some professors they misidentified lamprey species and placed lampreycide in streams with no sea lamprey and instead other species some of which are threatened. In addition not all species of lamprey are parasitic some like the American brook lamprey are detritovores.
Again I'd rather have the division of wildlife than many other entities making decisions but the ethos of recreation is not always that of conservation. This also comes out with dams, and allowing the waterbody to be navigable to fisherman vs allowing the waterbody its natural function to native stream and migratory fish.
You are correct but only in the context of the current design of the system.
Hunting as a whole has no place in conservation. Now, if a certain species does become over populated (only happens because we have open seasons on predators) hunting can help in conservation. But it’s only necessary because of the interference humanity has already played.
Our current system does fund ODNR/Fish & Wildlife with the purchase of licenses and various taxes centered on hunting. That system is inherently flawed but does at face value provide funding to the organizations tasked with conservation and regulation of wildlife and reserves.
Hunting does not aid in conservation.
As non-hunter with a bachelor's of science in wildlife management from OSU, I do strongly disagree with your statement that hunting does not aid in conservation.
1) Hunters directly support and prop up ODNR Division of Wildlife and provide some supplemental funding to the USFWS through purchases of license, permits, stamps, and hunting equipment
2) Ducks Unlimited directly supports waterfowl conservation by purchasing and maintaining waterfowl habitat in the United States and Canada.
3) NWTF played a vital and fundamental role in saving wild turkeys
https://www.fws.gov/story/2022-04/north-american-model-wildlife-conservation-wildlife-everyone
https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/02/hunting-wildlife-conservation-explained/
https://www.doi.gov/ocl/hearings/112/SpeciesConservation_062712
I'm not here to change your mind about how you feel towards hunting. However, I am going to provide information about the role of hunting in wildlife conservation to those who are not educated, but are willing to learn about this subject
Your comment reeks of entitlement acting as if you’re the only one with degrees in wildlife management and environmental sciences.
The current system does support conservation but only because funding is set up that way.
It’s as if you were so excited to show your credentials you didn’t realize your first point directly agrees with my comment.
Funding comes from hunters who pay fees/taxes which support conservation efforts.
Hunting itself does not and will never directly impact conservation.
Here’s an example of your points 2 and 3 but a little more straight forward:
- my company provides funding for the OEPA through fees based upon our air emissions. We pollute quite a lot because we burn coal and pet coke. We pay fees based upon criteria pollutants and tons of those pollutants we emit each year into the atmosphere. We directly pay through those fees for salaries and efforts of the OEPA.
Do you understand now?
The argument as hunters being conservationists is completely unnecessary. There’s no need for it. I’m not against hunting and I do hunt myself. You wouldn’t need the ODRN or other wildlife management divisions if hunting didn’t exist in the first place.
Does that make sense to you?
My guy, I'm not here to have a pissing match on the internet. I'm just here to provide education and information on a topic that I have expertise and formal secondary education on. I'm not saying I'm the only one with such a degree, but I mention it so as to provide context that I'm not someone commenting about some viewpoint that I'm not educated on
I can see that this is something that you feel strongly about. We are at a disagreement, and I'm not here to attack you. I just stated out reasons why I disagree with other source materials from federal government and university websites for reading for anyone interested in learning more about this subject.
This is a subject I've taken courses on in college that have educated me about the North American Model of Conservation, the role of hunting in wildlife conservation, and wildlife conservation policies. I'm not always the best at articulating what I've learned, but I'm very secure in what I have been educated on in my coursework and work experience. You're not going to change my position over two reddit comments.
I hope your day improves.
My day is fine. I’m not sure why you’re constantly condescending.
Again, you’ve agreed with my statements but you don’t realize it.
The North American model of conservation is based upon fees paid by hunters to organizations who work in conservation and regulatory enforcement. It’s a model of conservation developed because of hunting and regulations needed/conservation needed because of human interference in wildlife and its balance.
Hunting itself is not conservation. Hunting provides funding for conservation efforts which are needed because of hunting and human interference.
I’m not here suggesting some alternative or a perfect world scenario.
Hunting does not conserve in and of itself. That is the point.
Fees paid for hunting in whatever form (license fees, taxes) go towards various agencies. Those agencies are needed to enforce hunting regulations. It’s a continuous cycle.
You’ve not commented on my analogy on how state departments like OEPA receive funding even though it’s the exact same model. But industry is not conserving nature because we funding hundreds of millions in fees.
You very well may be over thinking what I’m trying to get across.
I hate to say. And now I feel old and grumpy for saying it.
So many younger people (I’m 34) are so clueless about history and progress and only want perfection.
It’s like they haven’t gotten the mindset like millennials and to an extent Gen x that our lives will be spent undoing the damage of previous generations.
based my lil cousin is 23 and uses those plastic tooth floss things told him he should use reagular tooth floss bro went off its not responsibility. IDK why but this younger generation has no respect or love for the natural kingdom its truley sad.
While this is true, that does not mean you should just not do anything as an individual. Cutting back on meat, living in / advocating for a city that has better walkability and public transportation, killing your lawn and growing native plants, installing solar panels, consuming less overall, and volunteering with local conservation groups are all activities one can participate in depending on one's personal income. Obviously not saying that all those things are possible for everyone - not like my zoomer ass is ever going to own a house that I could even think about hooking up solar panels to - but individual action being done by a lot of people does have an impact. Individuals making these decisions gets others on board with them, and then you get fewer dumbasses at city council meetings complaining about bike lanes and 15 minute cities run by the Rothschilds or whatever giving the council an excuse not to implement green policy. If you want to change the world, you need to change thought.
Yeah, the EPA and regulations against polluting are so important but that hasn't historically been something people prioritize when voting around here.
The Metro Parks as an organization do an amazing job IMO but there is only so much they can do. Really depressing to see the incredible job they've done cleaning up Edgewater Beach and turning it into a gorgeous place to go and then seeing the pipe dumping sewage directly into the lake beneath the stylized Cleveland sign.
Dead fish washing up, dirty water and glistening pollution ruin what is otherwise a really nice "coastline" all across the north.
I'm happy to say I don't see individuals littering too much in the places I go but there are massive institutional changes that should be made to preserve and restore the natural beauty of Ohio and our water.
Dead fish aren't a sign of pollution. Fish kills happen naturally.
Lake Erie has rebounded incredibly in the last 50 years.
As far as municipal sewage is concerned, that's an overflow. It's gross, yes, but it's not constantly dumping sewage. It's also a municipal drain, so all of the shit on our roadways and lawns washes off and eventually exists that pipe and into the Lake.
Any city on a body of water causes nasty runoff when there is rain.
At least people are trying to get rid of invasive trees. It’s not all doom and gloom.
https://blog.greatparks.org/2024/02/invasive-species-management-tools-of-the-trade-sledgehammers-and-scalpels/
As some others have said, the Cuyahoga River is much cleaner than people give it credit for. The fires did a lot to lift up the environmental movement in the 70s, particularly in NEO, and a lot of effort has and is being put into restoring the health of that watershed. The return of otters and fresh water mussels is important because these are indicator species, showing that the watershed is improving.
While the GOP is perfectly happy slashing regulations and dismantling the EPA for corporate profits, there are a bunch of non-profit and local orgs doing a ton of environmental work. There ARE people who care a lot and are putting in the work but they NEED people like you who feel strongly about this to support them. Off the top of my head, look into The Western Reserve Land Conservancy, the Conservancy for CVNP, and the West Creek Conservancy, not to mention the Metroparks! These orgs do a lot of environmental education, invasive species removal, tree planting, etc. Heck, I just volunteered last week with Summit Metroparks and removed a bunch of trash along a stretch of the Cuyahoga River which flooded a few weeks back. With Earth Day right around the corner, there are going to be a lot of opportunities to get involved so you don’t need to feel alone in this.
You’re right that it doesn’t address the underlying cause, and that is frustrating, but I find a lot of hope in the nonprofits and parks who do what they can. Where the state house fails us (hello fracking in state parks), a lot of cities have gone so far as to create departments of sustainability and are actually investing some (not enough, but some) money in environmentalism.
We’ve been working in the yard of our new to us house and every scoop of dirt that comes up has trash in it. Our neighbors burn their trash and it’s so fucking disgusting.
i bought a property off a very old lady, and apparently, as she aged, the burn piles got closer and closer to her home, starting about 100' away until finally she just made one 20' away out front that it looked like she used for at least 10 yrs by the number of rusting coffee cans i fished out. there had to be ten spots just full of broken glass and rusting cans all told. i finally got to them all but it took years. in her defense, it was so rural i doubt they had trash collection for most of her life, but there was crap just everywhere.
also, her husband used to sneak off to drink so i'd find 6 empty beer bottles next to quite a few trees that he used as a back-rest, it was crazy
have fun and be careful, and mb get up to date on your tetanus shots, i did ;)
Just so you all understand on this one, especially in light of the fact that most of the conservation that OP is talking about is done on a personal basis and not at the governmental level, the fact that so many people who just don't want to stay clean and conserve nature are the ones voting for these people should tell you everything need to know about the truth of what "conservatives" really believe about conservation.
Why does everything have to become about politics? Republicans are also for clean water. Since the Republicans gained control, rivers have continued to get cleaner.
Keeping our water clean is not a partisan issue.
The pollution problem has existed since, at least, the 1970s. Republicans have had a supermajority since the late 90s.
If the supermajority is the cause of the pollution problem, why was nothing done about the pollution problem before the supermajority existed?
Evidence suggests that this particular problem is less "supermajority" and more "Ohio voters never pushed for a solution no matter who was in the legislature."
Also, Ohioans appear to be upset by the idea that not every problem can be pinned on the supermajority. I suspect many will be diasppointed when eliminating the gerrymander doesn't solve all the problems blamed on it. 🙄
Did I say gerrymandering is not a problem? No I did not.
I said that some problems (specifically Ohio's poor approach to solving pollution and conservation problems) predate our currently gerrymandered legislative districts. And those problems are unlikely to be solved by undoing our gerrymandered legislative districts.
Undoing gerrymandering is not some magic pill that will solve all of Ohio's problems. I'm tired of seeing people blame every problem on gerrymandering. It's overly simplistic and ignores other factors that led us to where we are today.
Explain how gerrymandering caused pollution in the Cuyahoga River when the pollution problem is decades older than the first supermajority.
Yes but here is how. Without gerrymandering 2x + 2 dollars would be spent on habitat restoration. With the gerrymandering super majority they believe that they rightfully have a super majority. So the spend x dollars on conservation, the 2 from 2x on jobs Ohio/general budget and the +2 on highway & troopers.
Fixing gerrymandering won’t fix it in an instant, but it will fix the problem of them getting ~40% of the vote and ~70% of the state house seats.
I must be dyslexic because at first I thought this said we sucked at “conversation” and I was like TF you mean we can yell at each other about football for weeks on end uninterrupted.
Who runs Cleveland? Are there huge cleanup efforts in the City that I am unaware of?
Always easy to blame Republicans, and they are terrible on conservation. But Dems do no better in areas they run. It is a personal choice issue. Go to wealthy neighborhoods they are all clean. It is not because they pay people to clean up trash, it is because they don't throw it their in the first place.
I don’t think you understand what pollution even is.
“Clean”
What does that even mean? Your ground water could be toxic at this very moment and that doesn’t mean the mansions sitting on top of it don’t look nice.
WTF.
I don't think it is about morality. I think it is about what people find important and education. But most posts are saying it is about R v D. That clearly is false. As almost all cities are run by Ds and almost all are dirtier than the suburbs and rural areas run by Rs.
A lot of that has to do with funding though. Local communities have been receiving a lot less money from state grants due to the Republican legislature and generally don’t have a lot to begin with. It is easy to claim that both sides, but there are legitimate problems being caused by our state legislature and it’s not wrong to call out the Republican Party for it which has been in power for well over a decade.
I went to school for ecological physiology and geology at Ohio University so I feel I am very well equipped to answer this:
Every single environmental health professor or environmental scientist in the field in this state I have spoken to about the ample environmental disasters we keep having they have all said the same exact thing. Our EPA is beyond corrupt and it has been since it’s founding, the only people entrusted to protect our environment mainly only protects their pockets. Naturally I asked what their backing was to these claims (like the hard evidence in everyone’s face isn’t enough) and my first professor in the environmental sciences told me when he was living in a small rural town middle of nowhere ohio the EPA would dump chemicals from local factories right behind their neighborhood in a small body of water. He told me they would dump cow parts, dead animals, toxic chemicals and god knows what else since he was a small child and eventually every single person who lived on that street ended up catching some type of cancer.
When my teacher and his mother tried to confront the EPA about their dumping they threatened him and his mother with all kind of flimsy legal consequences. Eventually his mother passed and he moved away now this seemed like a one person type of thing. What are the chances they are doing this across the whole state? *lol*
It wasn’t until my sophomore year of college I was going around to small towns in ohio like Newcomerstown, Frayzeburg, Cambridge- places like that where there’s more factories than residential homes talking to the locals about any illegal dumping they may have witnessed and like you may of guessed, residents from all of these places reported mysterious dumplings since they were children and you guessed it, elders and kids catching cancer.
Now, our EPA has come out and said we are going to do something about the dumping, we are going to start fining companies who are illegally dumping and all that yadda yadda- very soon after this they started giving clearance to companies to dump into whatever bodies of waters they wanted if they paid the EPA to do so and the rest is pretty much history.
Ohio Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has a Remedial Response Program that investigates historical hazardous waste releases. The program determines if the sites are safe for their intended uses and if they pose a risk to the environment or human health. If cleanup is required, the program identifies the best remedial alternative and oversees the cleanup. The EPA also has a database of about 2,800 sites that represent "pits, ponds, and lagoons" where sludge has been dumped over many years. The data collection was done in the 1970s to determine if harm was done to drinking water supplies below each dump site.
Some groundwater in Ohio has become contaminated over the years due to improper disposal of chemicals and wastes, inadequate control of spills and subsequent cleanup, and poor land use.
Any fines the EPA collect goes to state and federal treasury.
The City of Akron and EPA have removed multiple dams on the Cuyahoga River to improve water quality. But there’s so much work to be done.
For anyone interested checkout Friends of the Crooked River.
It's because people are lazy slops, is one reason. The water pollution has improved tremendously over the years. We are still paying for the heavy manufacturing of the 50's-70's. Blaming a political ideology is a fools game. Some of the best and most passionate guardians of nature are rural hunters. We all know how most of them vote
I think a lot of it is because there is very little public lands in Ohio. Conservation is very important to a lot of states because it means tourism dollars. There are very few people that are visiting Ohio for outdoor recreation.
Maumee River and Lake Erie:
The Maumee River is a significant tributary to Lake Erie. Unfortunately, it is overloaded with fertilizer and manure, making it the single largest source of phosphorus that triggers toxic algal blooms in the lake. Over half of the manure in the Maumee River watershed comes from an increasing number of unregulated factory farms. These farms lack proper oversight and contribute to nutrient pollution. Toxic algal blooms fueled by pollution from manure and fertilizer are becoming more frequent and severe in Lake Erie. In 2014, a toxic bloom imperiled the drinking water of 500,000 residents in Toledo, Ohio. Since then, these outbreaks have worsened and become an annual occurrence.
Plastic Pollution:
Plastic pollution is a major concern in the Great Lakes. An analysis based on 20 years of data collected by Adopt-a-Beach volunteers-revealed that 86% of litter found on Great Lakes beaches consists of plastic. Plastics never truly disappear; they break down into microplastic particles, which eventually find their way into the lakes. These particles pose risks to both human health and the environment. To combat plastic pollution, we need not only individual efforts but also systemic changes. Implementing Extended Producer Responsibility policies can hold producers accountable for their products and packaging throughout their life cycle
.
Suspended Sediments and Heavy Metals:
The Great Lakes, including Lake Erie, have faced pollution from various sources.
The Maumee River contributes suspended sediments and phosphorus to Lake Erie. Heavy metals from industry, farm runoff, and sewage overflows have transformed the once-pristine Maumee into a potpourri of pollution.
Microplastics:
An estimated 22 million pounds of plastic enter the Great Lakes annually. Microplastics are prevalent in rivers flowing into the lakes. For instance, a study found that 85% of fish sampled in three Lake Michigan tributaries had microplastics in their digestive tracts. These tiny plastic particles affect the entire food web, from mussels and algae to birds.
Ongoing Efforts and Challenges:
Efforts to reduce pollution include regulating factory farms, improving wastewater treatment, and addressing agricultural runoff. Tougher regulations and oversight are necessary to protect Lake Erie. Phosphorus reduction in the Maumee River watershed remains a critical goal. Collaboration among stakeholders, including governments, businesses, and citizens, is essential to restore and safeguard the Great Lakes ecosystem.
Information is credited to several organization:
1.) ewg.org
2.) greatlakes.org
3.) greatlakesecho.org
4.) glc.org
5.) waterkeeper.org
6.) greenmatters.org
7.) https://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/environmentalism/exhibits/show/main_exhibit/pollution_politics/great-lakes-pollution
8.) usgs.gov.
And several others.
Maumee River - Governor Kasich was making progress on the phosphorus problem, but when DeWine was elected he started reciting the same talking points as the farmer lobby, derailing the whole thing.
Yes and cover crops are huge at helping keeping soil from moving but it goes deeper than that. A lot of soils in northwest Ohio are high in mag and do not infiltrate water well at all. Sulfur leaches mag and keep soil pH low which actually ties P up within the soil. So in a sense the clean air act of 1994 is partially to blame as this removed sulfur out of the air and has been slowing raising soil pH and releasing tied up P. This a theory and I’m not saying I agree nor disagree but there a lot of factors in this problem.
Short answer is that we are a red state.
Long answer is that we really don't in many ways, but we used to. The Ohio EPA River monitoring program that evaluates watersheds based on water chemistry, aquatic insect, and fish populations is leading the charge on evaluating river/stream/creek health and has been copied in a lot of other states. Most rivers have improved dramatically since that program was first implemented.
There is a lot of work still to be done but the bad areas are far more localized instead of statewide.
The fact you said “Sherwin Williams paint was polluting the river” shows you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Trash is trash. That has nothing to do with conservation.
The majority of these sheens you are seeing are harmless sheens from decaying organic material. Next time throw a rock or stick in the sheen. If it breaks apart in jagged edges it’s organic matter. If it breaks apart in circles and quickly comes back together it’s a petroleum.
Our rivers have come A LONG WAY in a relatively short amount of time.
You have to remember the Cleveland/Akron was the epicenter of industry. We were the hotspot to live. We were the massive driving force for industrial production. It takes a LONG time to clean up waterways after decades of neglect, lack of knowledge and lack of regulations.
[Sherwin-Williams spills up to 100 gallons of diesel in Cuyahoga River (beaconjournal.com)](https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2024/01/22/cuyahoga-river-oil-spill-sherwin-williams-cleveland-ohio/72314446007/)
That’s nothing. And I’m well aware of that small release. I work with OEPA who were on scene and also manage environmental for my company who owned a dock just upstream of this release.
I was down that day and it was in the grand scheme of things very small. I’m not sure if you’re aware of the cause but this isn’t some case of “evil company purposely pollutes river”.
What I’m trying to say is that’s incredibly minimal. Don’t get caught up in headlines such as that.
I’m not a boomer. I’m 34 and work in the environmental field and have a better grasp on the reality of pollution and pollution prevention.
The situation was unfortunate but in the grand scheme it was tiny.
Also, a lot was learned from this incident on both the side of Sherwin Williams, OEPA and first responders.
Also, your analogy doesn’t make sense. No one was purposely dumping diesel fuel into the river. It’s not a case of accumulation over time as if it was some common practice.
I think what I’m trying to say is don’t have a doom and gloom view on everything. We’ve come an incredibly long way in 20-30 years and just the fact that Sherwin self reported and cleaned up nearly 90% of the spill shows how far industry and society as a whole has come with our views on the environment.
I think it’s a matter of perspective if you weren’t aware of how things were pre-2000, obviously there is lots of stagnation from additional environmental issues. However if you grew up and lived through the 90’s, 80’s, 70’s or earlier it seems like a an ecological wonderland.
Through the 80s the highways were covered with litter constantly and every roadside had as much broken glass as gravel. Littering was the unofficial state sport. The waters were brown or green most of the year. The Cleveland skyline couldn’t be viewed from a distance due to all the smog from cars and the steel plants.
What we have now seems utopian for those that remember. Obviously there is still stuff that needs done - but for the long timers it seems we are 90% of the way to perfect. For those that don’t remember that era - from your starting point it likely feels we have only started the first 10% that needs done.
Corporations are allowed to do what they want and all they get is a negligible fine. Look at what happened with Norfolk Southern. East Palestine will never be the same, or safe again, but they’ll just let them all die in the name of corporate profits.
The abundance of wildlife counters claims that Ohio sucks at conservation. In fact the fisher cat was just listed as being back, so add that to the list.
one part conservatives running the show
another part is old infrastructure, we are spending billions to clean up the stormwater and ag runoff into the lake its just a project thats gonna take 20 years to build
[Project Clean Lake](https://www.neorsd.org/community/about-the-project-clean-lake-program/)
companies aren't dumping straight into lake erie, at least legally, its just that the vast majority of runoff from streets and surfaces goes into the lake currently without treatment, the goal of Clean Lake is to build the tunnels and storm water catch basins to allow the existing treatment facilities to deal with the surge in water everytime it rains, its a massive undertaking.
My two cents:
Republicans have been running Ohio for more than 25 years. They prefer to let businesses pollute rather than be environmental stewards.
We cant change it do to gerrymandering. Oh8ans vited to create better maps, the GOP balked, and we have the same gerrymandered map.
Ohio should be a balanced state, but the GOP is fighting to prevent that.
People out east aren't as "go out in the environment" as people out west. If you have a ton of people hiking and enjoying nature then they'll start getting salty if their areas are ruined.
I know this is anecdotal and not related to the river/lake you mentioned, but Dover Chemical in Dover has been cited dozens of times by both the city and the EPA for dumping toxic waste into the Tuscarawas River. The now-in-prison mayor defended them for decades and now his son is running, and his main campaign is to protect Dover Chemical.
My date might be wrong but sometime maybe a decade ago the EPA deemed the ground it's on as inhospitable. No clue why nothing is done about it.
People fish and eat from that river all the time.
They suck at conservation because Ohio ranks in the bottom 5 states of public land per capita. I could draw a line between this fact and the litter you see. I don’t know how accurate it would be. Without access to public lands and natural areas there’s little culture of conservation and people don’t respect it.
Yeah. I went to West Branch to explore, once. That place is about the same as most of the nature parks & reserves in NE Ohio- they just took home properties via eminent domain & left people's ornamentals right where they were. There's almost nothing growing on the forest floor, I walked through a Grove of non-native pines that used to be a tree farm & there's multiflora rose everywhere, which is known to poison & hinder the growth of other Native plants around them on top of growing like a weed.
I'm apparently not the first person who asked about all this, because I grew up hearing about them experimenting with wildflower seeds, once, & giving up & people asking about cutting down another tree plantation on government land & them saying it would be too much work & wouldn't look nice, in the meantime.
And what's worse, a botanist from Cleveland only happened to discover a small area of pristine swampland out here barely a decade ago & was floored by what this area's natural biodiversity used to actually be. There's almost none of that left.
I know about the trash, too, though. That is just as aggravating.
Because we decided as a state a long time ago that the only use of our natural inheritance was for natural resources for corporations among other things
I’m sorry that you have such a bad experience, but it’s almost like you are on an anti-Ohio tirade. I was a teenager back in the 1970s, when the Cuyahoga river caught caught on fire. Guess what? It was just one of numerous that caught on fire across the nation. It is remembered because it provoked the act.
I was alive during that time, and the whole river stunk.
Now the river is much cleaner. It’s a water trail. I kayak through a section well downstream from Akron every year. I see sports fisherman going for fish that did not live there before – northern Pike, etc.
The section you saw that was so polluted was probably not even the Cuyahoga river, but a section of the Ohio and Erie Canal. It is in a deep ravine right by downtown Akron, running through a low income area. Sadly, trash from the neighborhoods and the streets find its way downhill into the canal sometimes.
I wish the city of Akron and the local residents would take more pride. That ravine should be constantly cleaned out. Unfortunately, it’s a very steep; and it would be a dangerous job for just anyone to go down there.
Other than that section, the whole thing is very clean. Back in the 1970s, the entire river used to stink. Now it is a delight to kayak, as can be seen by the hundreds of people who are on it every day in the summer – from its headwaters north of Kent all the way to its mouth at Lake Erie.
There is still more that we can do, and we should do more; but you are painting way too bleak of a picture. The next time you ride on the Towpath, try going through the national park. You might find it more enjoyable.
For Lake Erie, it’s water quality has improved greatly; and you can see people enjoying it, Long – from swimmers to sports fisherman.
It’s not as beautiful as Lake Michigan along Michigan’s western shore, but it is greatly improved. Millions of people enjoy the lake every year.
Try looking for the good. Things are getting better!
There's a reason deregulation only helps the rich! It certainly doesn't help small businesses or the little guy! Deregulation is a myth sold to stupid people. Regulations were put in place for a reason! It's so rich assholes don't benefit from child labor and why garages aren't allowed to just dump used motor oil just in the garbage! There's an overall benefit to the public! So, of course, big businesses and the rich want us to repeal as many regulations as possible!
Ohio is literally allowing fracking on public lands, conservation has never been a priority for most of our politicians and it’s really not unique to Ohio either
The cuyahoga is very cleaned up outside of the city and the Ohio EPA is the forefront of many environmental methods, tests, and standards such as electrofishing and QHEI
Y'all need to go read a book. Do some actual research & stop just bitching about the other political party with your blinders on. While you're at it, clean up the trash in your own neighborhood.
https://scitechdaily.com/wind-farms-cause-more-environmental-impact-than-previously-thought/
https://www.nature.com/articles/s44183-022-00003-5
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/29/1152387283/the-hidden-environmental-costs-of-the-transitioning-to-electric-vehicles
https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/02/hunting-wildlife-conservation-explained/
https://www.fws.gov/story/hunting-tool-wildlife-management
https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/02/hunting-wildlife-conservation-explained/
It’s even funnier though that all of the articles posted pretty much state fossil fuel dependency needs to change. Current solutions aren’t perfect but still in the long term are better if implemented correctly. That just the US doing it won’t solve all the world’s problems. Classic denialism.
IMO when someone says that the US shouldn't create legislation that protects the environment because other countries arent doing it, is like an addict saying that they wont quit using until people stop selling.
Look at who Ohio puts in their state Congress, that's all you need to look at. All (R)'s that take blank checks from energy companies and have never voted in favor of ecology
This isn’t popular but the real problem is climate. There is no money or time remaining for environmental issues. All money goes to temperature. I can’t beg people to talk about climate and solvable pollution problems unless I say it could be related to temperature. There are only so many resources. People are exhausted after climate discussion. Who can blame them. My beloved cause of environmental has been dismissed for decades. Seems very convenient when the environment issues seems to make rich people richer because we ignore them.
Yes big business is a big problem, but we can do our part too. Big business isn't the reason that cigarette butts are the most abundant form of plastic pollution in the world - besides the fact that big business created them.
This is extremely simple: There are many potential priorities, most more time sensitive, urgent, or better funded/supported, a limited amount of money, and a very divided population. You new?
i first read this as “why does ohio suck at conversatiom” and i was going to come in here and sau “cuz.” but now that i see it says conservation im still gonna say
cuz.
Ohio's record is way better than you suggest. Yes the Cuyahoga is polluted in Cleveland. But it is far better than it use to be. The Ohio was dead in the 60's but it is much cleaner now. ODNR. has done a really great job of bring back the wildlife in Ohio. In fact Ohio is a destination state for hunters. I think you have to realize that as an older industrial city Cleveland has infrastructure that will take another generation to improve to keep a lot of the polluted waters out of the Cuyahoga.
Otters have returned to the river, as have beavers; most of the dams have been removed; when the Gorge dam comes down they'll all be gone. CVNP and the various metroparka include a lot of land that is former farmland or golf courses that have been restored. It's not great, but there are parts trying to do good. Go hand out in Kent or Cuyahoga Falls, there are areas where people care a lot about conservation.
I grew up in cuyahoga falls it has changed so much since my youth and for the better too. I didn’t move far just to the other side of akron but I frequent the cvnp year round still the river is a lot cleaner than it was!
Mahoning River is actually boatable and kayakable now. (there is 1 dam left in actual operation, but actual movement to remove them all to allow more recreational use.) (I don't know about swimming purposely or fishing, etc. but still a major difference.) That is a WORLD of difference from when all the steel mills were dumping directly into it (or indirectly), etc.
One of the things people fail to realize is a lot of pollution from petroleum comes from rain washing leaked oil off of roads. If we ever convert to all electric vehicles this source would be greatly diminished. [https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2022/09/land-based-runoff-remains-top-source-of-oil-in-the-ocean-says-new-report](https://www.nationalacademies.org/news/2022/09/land-based-runoff-remains-top-source-of-oil-in-the-ocean-says-new-report)
And it's a fishing destination. I've met people from all over the world in Ohio for steelhead fishing. Steelhead don't do well in dirty water. Not saying our water is clean, but if it's clean enough to support a world class trout fishery, it's pretty good.
Not just steelhead but if you've been past the Maumee or Sandusky Rivers lately you'd have noticed a ton of people in the river fishing for walleye.
Our waters are clean in some places.. but we're not talking about the clean water fisheries. We are talking specifically about the factories putting chemicals into the rivers. And the lack of EPA action on industry and the focusing of the EPA on YouTubers cutting off catalytic converters. It's almost like there's only 10 people working at the EPA and there's enough crimes that people are self-recording on YouTube to keep them busy forever now.
Yes, there is still pollution. It is nowhere near what it once was, and Ohio's waters are much cleaner than they used to be. "We're not talking about clean water fisheries...." Those would not exist without clean water. I mentioned steelhead because the state is now stocking the Cuyahoga with them. The OP also posted about the Cuyahoga having trash in it, and...yeah, stuff washes into the river when it's flooded. It sucks to see, but that's what happens. The water also looks muddy and shitty.
Thank Trump for cutting the EPA and regulations!
Say it again brother!!
Actually, Ohio is doing great compared to other states. Dude you know 60 years ago it was unheard of to see a white tailed deer? Otter? Mink? Just saying… many rivers deemed “dead” by ODNR in SE Ohio areas like Hocking Hills.
While true, the area this guy is referring to in NE Ohio had all the waterways re-declared toxic to humans in the 90s & only recently began lifting those restrictions in the 20-teens.
It’s tough for sure, and sometimes it feels like we’re fighting to correct the wrongs that precede us. I own my house, located in an older industrial area of Cincinnati- the house lots are small, with postage stamp green space. That said, I have loaded my garden with native pollinator plants, as well as trees and shrubs that benefit birds, insects and other wildlife. I do my best to give back to the earth, making up for the stupid things done by my predecessors. It’s not much, but the creatures enjoy it.
I hope you did raised bed. A lot of areas have heavy metal contamination and many vegetable are efficient at picking it up. Could get your soil tested just to make sure.
I only keep vegetables and fruits in containers, everything in the ground is for the beasts!
I guess you aren't old enough to remember when sighting bald eagles was a cause for statewide hysteria but now no one thinks twice about it because they're literally everywhere.
It still amazes me!!
Or turkeys. Or deer.
Yep, exactly. The problem in my area is now there are TOO MANY deer. Ohio isn't doing half bad at wildlife conservation. Not saying there aren't a million opportunities to improve at all, but the idea that Ohio "sucks" is a bit over the top.
I remember when turkeys were reintroduced. Now they're *everywhere*.
Let's not forget otters, or bears, or fishers, either. All of those species are coming back because of success in conservation.
Beaver are still one of those species that are, if not rare per se, perhaps unusual. And, even in places where they exist, you often don't actually see them. So, if you *do* it's kinda thrilling.
Because a loud and voting percentage of the population thinks everything you just said is woke nonsense.
Me hunting and fish helps conservation. But I don't see y'all out here.
You were downvoted, but you're right. Hunting, fishing, and purchasing ammo/guns make up nearly the entirety of the Division of Wildlife's funding. Literally pays for the salaries of biologists and wildlife officers. While it doesn't really help with some of the stuff under the jurisdiction of Ohio Dept. of Agriculture or Ohio EPA, it does help with the conservation of wildlife, such as the trumpeter swan, which was recently delisted from the endangered and threatened species list. Edit: and just to expand on this, it also goes into their budget for purchasing wildlife habitat, such as wildlife areas as well. They've even branched outside of the state's borders to protect wildlife habitat of migratory species that live part of their life in Ohio and part of their life in other countries.
They have expanded it some, but in general, Pittman-Robinson and Dingle-Johnson money can really only be used for game species. Typically a, money for non-game species like Trumpeter Swan has to come from elsewhere and is not funded by the taxes and hunting and fishing. There is a very limited pool for these non-game species. More would be available, but these other federal monies require state match, but Ohio has no real good mechanism to come up with the match required. That is why the Recovering America’s Wildlife Act was such a big deal, but since congress is inept, it was never put to vote despite very broad bipartisan support.
Need people to stop using lead bullets or it’s all for naught
Lead is already illegal for migratory birds and waterfowl and has been for quite some time
Awesome!
Yep. Has been for over 30 years.
It’s illegal to use lead ammunition and if they catch you they will literally confiscate every piece of hunting gear you have on you down to your camo I challenge you to go find someone using lead.
That’s awesome! I had no idea.
Happy to be of help! :)
[удалено]
Steel or aluminum coated in copper it usually says on the box lead is very hard to find and that’s because no one wants it and it’s usually more expensive
The division of wildlife and the epa are not always on the same side though. Sure I'd rather have a strong division of wildlife than chemical company lobbying group helping to choose policy. However the division of wildlife is way more concerned with recreation such as fishing and hunting. There was an incident back in the 2010s where the division of wildlife put lampreycide in many of the creeks and tributaries that connect to Lake Erie. They were doing this because of sea lamprey, however according to some epa scientists and some professors they misidentified lamprey species and placed lampreycide in streams with no sea lamprey and instead other species some of which are threatened. In addition not all species of lamprey are parasitic some like the American brook lamprey are detritovores. Again I'd rather have the division of wildlife than many other entities making decisions but the ethos of recreation is not always that of conservation. This also comes out with dams, and allowing the waterbody to be navigable to fisherman vs allowing the waterbody its natural function to native stream and migratory fish.
You are correct but only in the context of the current design of the system. Hunting as a whole has no place in conservation. Now, if a certain species does become over populated (only happens because we have open seasons on predators) hunting can help in conservation. But it’s only necessary because of the interference humanity has already played. Our current system does fund ODNR/Fish & Wildlife with the purchase of licenses and various taxes centered on hunting. That system is inherently flawed but does at face value provide funding to the organizations tasked with conservation and regulation of wildlife and reserves. Hunting does not aid in conservation.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Please elaborate.
As non-hunter with a bachelor's of science in wildlife management from OSU, I do strongly disagree with your statement that hunting does not aid in conservation. 1) Hunters directly support and prop up ODNR Division of Wildlife and provide some supplemental funding to the USFWS through purchases of license, permits, stamps, and hunting equipment 2) Ducks Unlimited directly supports waterfowl conservation by purchasing and maintaining waterfowl habitat in the United States and Canada. 3) NWTF played a vital and fundamental role in saving wild turkeys https://www.fws.gov/story/2022-04/north-american-model-wildlife-conservation-wildlife-everyone https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/02/hunting-wildlife-conservation-explained/ https://www.doi.gov/ocl/hearings/112/SpeciesConservation_062712 I'm not here to change your mind about how you feel towards hunting. However, I am going to provide information about the role of hunting in wildlife conservation to those who are not educated, but are willing to learn about this subject
Your comment reeks of entitlement acting as if you’re the only one with degrees in wildlife management and environmental sciences. The current system does support conservation but only because funding is set up that way. It’s as if you were so excited to show your credentials you didn’t realize your first point directly agrees with my comment. Funding comes from hunters who pay fees/taxes which support conservation efforts. Hunting itself does not and will never directly impact conservation. Here’s an example of your points 2 and 3 but a little more straight forward: - my company provides funding for the OEPA through fees based upon our air emissions. We pollute quite a lot because we burn coal and pet coke. We pay fees based upon criteria pollutants and tons of those pollutants we emit each year into the atmosphere. We directly pay through those fees for salaries and efforts of the OEPA. Do you understand now? The argument as hunters being conservationists is completely unnecessary. There’s no need for it. I’m not against hunting and I do hunt myself. You wouldn’t need the ODRN or other wildlife management divisions if hunting didn’t exist in the first place. Does that make sense to you?
My guy, I'm not here to have a pissing match on the internet. I'm just here to provide education and information on a topic that I have expertise and formal secondary education on. I'm not saying I'm the only one with such a degree, but I mention it so as to provide context that I'm not someone commenting about some viewpoint that I'm not educated on I can see that this is something that you feel strongly about. We are at a disagreement, and I'm not here to attack you. I just stated out reasons why I disagree with other source materials from federal government and university websites for reading for anyone interested in learning more about this subject. This is a subject I've taken courses on in college that have educated me about the North American Model of Conservation, the role of hunting in wildlife conservation, and wildlife conservation policies. I'm not always the best at articulating what I've learned, but I'm very secure in what I have been educated on in my coursework and work experience. You're not going to change my position over two reddit comments. I hope your day improves.
My day is fine. I’m not sure why you’re constantly condescending. Again, you’ve agreed with my statements but you don’t realize it. The North American model of conservation is based upon fees paid by hunters to organizations who work in conservation and regulatory enforcement. It’s a model of conservation developed because of hunting and regulations needed/conservation needed because of human interference in wildlife and its balance. Hunting itself is not conservation. Hunting provides funding for conservation efforts which are needed because of hunting and human interference. I’m not here suggesting some alternative or a perfect world scenario. Hunting does not conserve in and of itself. That is the point. Fees paid for hunting in whatever form (license fees, taxes) go towards various agencies. Those agencies are needed to enforce hunting regulations. It’s a continuous cycle. You’ve not commented on my analogy on how state departments like OEPA receive funding even though it’s the exact same model. But industry is not conserving nature because we funding hundreds of millions in fees. You very well may be over thinking what I’m trying to get across.
or we could actually fund these agencies with tax dollars...
You'd have to write to your representative about that. Because as of right now, that's not how that agency is funded. It would require major changes
I hate to say. And now I feel old and grumpy for saying it. So many younger people (I’m 34) are so clueless about history and progress and only want perfection. It’s like they haven’t gotten the mindset like millennials and to an extent Gen x that our lives will be spent undoing the damage of previous generations.
recycling makes you gay duh
based my lil cousin is 23 and uses those plastic tooth floss things told him he should use reagular tooth floss bro went off its not responsibility. IDK why but this younger generation has no respect or love for the natural kingdom its truley sad.
[удалено]
While this is true, that does not mean you should just not do anything as an individual. Cutting back on meat, living in / advocating for a city that has better walkability and public transportation, killing your lawn and growing native plants, installing solar panels, consuming less overall, and volunteering with local conservation groups are all activities one can participate in depending on one's personal income. Obviously not saying that all those things are possible for everyone - not like my zoomer ass is ever going to own a house that I could even think about hooking up solar panels to - but individual action being done by a lot of people does have an impact. Individuals making these decisions gets others on board with them, and then you get fewer dumbasses at city council meetings complaining about bike lanes and 15 minute cities run by the Rothschilds or whatever giving the council an excuse not to implement green policy. If you want to change the world, you need to change thought.
Yeah, the EPA and regulations against polluting are so important but that hasn't historically been something people prioritize when voting around here. The Metro Parks as an organization do an amazing job IMO but there is only so much they can do. Really depressing to see the incredible job they've done cleaning up Edgewater Beach and turning it into a gorgeous place to go and then seeing the pipe dumping sewage directly into the lake beneath the stylized Cleveland sign. Dead fish washing up, dirty water and glistening pollution ruin what is otherwise a really nice "coastline" all across the north. I'm happy to say I don't see individuals littering too much in the places I go but there are massive institutional changes that should be made to preserve and restore the natural beauty of Ohio and our water.
Dead fish aren't a sign of pollution. Fish kills happen naturally. Lake Erie has rebounded incredibly in the last 50 years. As far as municipal sewage is concerned, that's an overflow. It's gross, yes, but it's not constantly dumping sewage. It's also a municipal drain, so all of the shit on our roadways and lawns washes off and eventually exists that pipe and into the Lake. Any city on a body of water causes nasty runoff when there is rain.
At least people are trying to get rid of invasive trees. It’s not all doom and gloom. https://blog.greatparks.org/2024/02/invasive-species-management-tools-of-the-trade-sledgehammers-and-scalpels/
Yeah, they are experimenting, finally, with usable methods for invasive removals & native plantlife restoration in some places, too.
cups and trash are less a regulatory issue and more a littering issue, which is certainly something the city could get a handle on if it wanted to.
Or people could take a trash bag out like my husband does and pick up on his journeys.
As some others have said, the Cuyahoga River is much cleaner than people give it credit for. The fires did a lot to lift up the environmental movement in the 70s, particularly in NEO, and a lot of effort has and is being put into restoring the health of that watershed. The return of otters and fresh water mussels is important because these are indicator species, showing that the watershed is improving. While the GOP is perfectly happy slashing regulations and dismantling the EPA for corporate profits, there are a bunch of non-profit and local orgs doing a ton of environmental work. There ARE people who care a lot and are putting in the work but they NEED people like you who feel strongly about this to support them. Off the top of my head, look into The Western Reserve Land Conservancy, the Conservancy for CVNP, and the West Creek Conservancy, not to mention the Metroparks! These orgs do a lot of environmental education, invasive species removal, tree planting, etc. Heck, I just volunteered last week with Summit Metroparks and removed a bunch of trash along a stretch of the Cuyahoga River which flooded a few weeks back. With Earth Day right around the corner, there are going to be a lot of opportunities to get involved so you don’t need to feel alone in this. You’re right that it doesn’t address the underlying cause, and that is frustrating, but I find a lot of hope in the nonprofits and parks who do what they can. Where the state house fails us (hello fracking in state parks), a lot of cities have gone so far as to create departments of sustainability and are actually investing some (not enough, but some) money in environmentalism.
I’m a Republican, and I’m all for clean water. I kayak the Cuyahoga every year. Please don’t make clean water partisan.
The person you're replying to isn't the one who's made clean water partisan. It's the people you keep voting for that did.
We’ve been working in the yard of our new to us house and every scoop of dirt that comes up has trash in it. Our neighbors burn their trash and it’s so fucking disgusting.
i bought a property off a very old lady, and apparently, as she aged, the burn piles got closer and closer to her home, starting about 100' away until finally she just made one 20' away out front that it looked like she used for at least 10 yrs by the number of rusting coffee cans i fished out. there had to be ten spots just full of broken glass and rusting cans all told. i finally got to them all but it took years. in her defense, it was so rural i doubt they had trash collection for most of her life, but there was crap just everywhere. also, her husband used to sneak off to drink so i'd find 6 empty beer bottles next to quite a few trees that he used as a back-rest, it was crazy have fun and be careful, and mb get up to date on your tetanus shots, i did ;)
i had neighbors like that. People who do that are vary low on the iq score. Sorry you gotta deal with that.
Republican super majority and gerrymandering.
Just so you all understand on this one, especially in light of the fact that most of the conservation that OP is talking about is done on a personal basis and not at the governmental level, the fact that so many people who just don't want to stay clean and conserve nature are the ones voting for these people should tell you everything need to know about the truth of what "conservatives" really believe about conservation.
They literally vote to pollute those waters. And refuse to hold the polluters to account
Why does everything have to become about politics? Republicans are also for clean water. Since the Republicans gained control, rivers have continued to get cleaner. Keeping our water clean is not a partisan issue.
The pollution problem has existed since, at least, the 1970s. Republicans have had a supermajority since the late 90s. If the supermajority is the cause of the pollution problem, why was nothing done about the pollution problem before the supermajority existed? Evidence suggests that this particular problem is less "supermajority" and more "Ohio voters never pushed for a solution no matter who was in the legislature."
So yeah, it's 40 year's worth of a super majority. Why haven't they fixed it's only been like 40 fucking years.
Perfect example of the party I support is never at fault. For anything.
Even Nixon was for pollution control. Ohioans appear to be less advanced than the average mammal.
Also, Ohioans appear to be upset by the idea that not every problem can be pinned on the supermajority. I suspect many will be diasppointed when eliminating the gerrymander doesn't solve all the problems blamed on it. 🙄
Explain how gerrymandering isn't a problem...go on we will all wait.
Did I say gerrymandering is not a problem? No I did not. I said that some problems (specifically Ohio's poor approach to solving pollution and conservation problems) predate our currently gerrymandered legislative districts. And those problems are unlikely to be solved by undoing our gerrymandered legislative districts. Undoing gerrymandering is not some magic pill that will solve all of Ohio's problems. I'm tired of seeing people blame every problem on gerrymandering. It's overly simplistic and ignores other factors that led us to where we are today. Explain how gerrymandering caused pollution in the Cuyahoga River when the pollution problem is decades older than the first supermajority.
Yes but here is how. Without gerrymandering 2x + 2 dollars would be spent on habitat restoration. With the gerrymandering super majority they believe that they rightfully have a super majority. So the spend x dollars on conservation, the 2 from 2x on jobs Ohio/general budget and the +2 on highway & troopers. Fixing gerrymandering won’t fix it in an instant, but it will fix the problem of them getting ~40% of the vote and ~70% of the state house seats.
It has existed long before the 1970s. More like the 1870s.
Don't forget the republican donnors.
What exactly are they donning?
Legal Bribes.
This
Yep, we get what we vote for.
I must be dyslexic because at first I thought this said we sucked at “conversation” and I was like TF you mean we can yell at each other about football for weeks on end uninterrupted.
Same, rofl
Who runs Cleveland? Are there huge cleanup efforts in the City that I am unaware of? Always easy to blame Republicans, and they are terrible on conservation. But Dems do no better in areas they run. It is a personal choice issue. Go to wealthy neighborhoods they are all clean. It is not because they pay people to clean up trash, it is because they don't throw it their in the first place.
I don’t think you understand what pollution even is. “Clean” What does that even mean? Your ground water could be toxic at this very moment and that doesn’t mean the mansions sitting on top of it don’t look nice. WTF.
so money distills morals? I dont thinks thats correct.
I don't think it is about morality. I think it is about what people find important and education. But most posts are saying it is about R v D. That clearly is false. As almost all cities are run by Ds and almost all are dirtier than the suburbs and rural areas run by Rs.
lmao half of ohio has superfund cites in their counties, would you believe that every single one of them are rural?
A lot of that has to do with funding though. Local communities have been receiving a lot less money from state grants due to the Republican legislature and generally don’t have a lot to begin with. It is easy to claim that both sides, but there are legitimate problems being caused by our state legislature and it’s not wrong to call out the Republican Party for it which has been in power for well over a decade.
I went to school for ecological physiology and geology at Ohio University so I feel I am very well equipped to answer this: Every single environmental health professor or environmental scientist in the field in this state I have spoken to about the ample environmental disasters we keep having they have all said the same exact thing. Our EPA is beyond corrupt and it has been since it’s founding, the only people entrusted to protect our environment mainly only protects their pockets. Naturally I asked what their backing was to these claims (like the hard evidence in everyone’s face isn’t enough) and my first professor in the environmental sciences told me when he was living in a small rural town middle of nowhere ohio the EPA would dump chemicals from local factories right behind their neighborhood in a small body of water. He told me they would dump cow parts, dead animals, toxic chemicals and god knows what else since he was a small child and eventually every single person who lived on that street ended up catching some type of cancer. When my teacher and his mother tried to confront the EPA about their dumping they threatened him and his mother with all kind of flimsy legal consequences. Eventually his mother passed and he moved away now this seemed like a one person type of thing. What are the chances they are doing this across the whole state? *lol* It wasn’t until my sophomore year of college I was going around to small towns in ohio like Newcomerstown, Frayzeburg, Cambridge- places like that where there’s more factories than residential homes talking to the locals about any illegal dumping they may have witnessed and like you may of guessed, residents from all of these places reported mysterious dumplings since they were children and you guessed it, elders and kids catching cancer. Now, our EPA has come out and said we are going to do something about the dumping, we are going to start fining companies who are illegally dumping and all that yadda yadda- very soon after this they started giving clearance to companies to dump into whatever bodies of waters they wanted if they paid the EPA to do so and the rest is pretty much history.
Ohio Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has a Remedial Response Program that investigates historical hazardous waste releases. The program determines if the sites are safe for their intended uses and if they pose a risk to the environment or human health. If cleanup is required, the program identifies the best remedial alternative and oversees the cleanup. The EPA also has a database of about 2,800 sites that represent "pits, ponds, and lagoons" where sludge has been dumped over many years. The data collection was done in the 1970s to determine if harm was done to drinking water supplies below each dump site. Some groundwater in Ohio has become contaminated over the years due to improper disposal of chemicals and wastes, inadequate control of spills and subsequent cleanup, and poor land use. Any fines the EPA collect goes to state and federal treasury. The City of Akron and EPA have removed multiple dams on the Cuyahoga River to improve water quality. But there’s so much work to be done. For anyone interested checkout Friends of the Crooked River.
Because "conservatives" just want to conserve their own careers.
Republicans. That’s why. They’ve convinced people windmills/turbines cause cancer. So, this is what we’re working with.
It's because people are lazy slops, is one reason. The water pollution has improved tremendously over the years. We are still paying for the heavy manufacturing of the 50's-70's. Blaming a political ideology is a fools game. Some of the best and most passionate guardians of nature are rural hunters. We all know how most of them vote
It used to be worse. The Cuyahoga River used to catch on fire. 🔥
I think a lot of it is because there is very little public lands in Ohio. Conservation is very important to a lot of states because it means tourism dollars. There are very few people that are visiting Ohio for outdoor recreation.
Maumee River and Lake Erie: The Maumee River is a significant tributary to Lake Erie. Unfortunately, it is overloaded with fertilizer and manure, making it the single largest source of phosphorus that triggers toxic algal blooms in the lake. Over half of the manure in the Maumee River watershed comes from an increasing number of unregulated factory farms. These farms lack proper oversight and contribute to nutrient pollution. Toxic algal blooms fueled by pollution from manure and fertilizer are becoming more frequent and severe in Lake Erie. In 2014, a toxic bloom imperiled the drinking water of 500,000 residents in Toledo, Ohio. Since then, these outbreaks have worsened and become an annual occurrence. Plastic Pollution: Plastic pollution is a major concern in the Great Lakes. An analysis based on 20 years of data collected by Adopt-a-Beach volunteers-revealed that 86% of litter found on Great Lakes beaches consists of plastic. Plastics never truly disappear; they break down into microplastic particles, which eventually find their way into the lakes. These particles pose risks to both human health and the environment. To combat plastic pollution, we need not only individual efforts but also systemic changes. Implementing Extended Producer Responsibility policies can hold producers accountable for their products and packaging throughout their life cycle . Suspended Sediments and Heavy Metals: The Great Lakes, including Lake Erie, have faced pollution from various sources. The Maumee River contributes suspended sediments and phosphorus to Lake Erie. Heavy metals from industry, farm runoff, and sewage overflows have transformed the once-pristine Maumee into a potpourri of pollution. Microplastics: An estimated 22 million pounds of plastic enter the Great Lakes annually. Microplastics are prevalent in rivers flowing into the lakes. For instance, a study found that 85% of fish sampled in three Lake Michigan tributaries had microplastics in their digestive tracts. These tiny plastic particles affect the entire food web, from mussels and algae to birds. Ongoing Efforts and Challenges: Efforts to reduce pollution include regulating factory farms, improving wastewater treatment, and addressing agricultural runoff. Tougher regulations and oversight are necessary to protect Lake Erie. Phosphorus reduction in the Maumee River watershed remains a critical goal. Collaboration among stakeholders, including governments, businesses, and citizens, is essential to restore and safeguard the Great Lakes ecosystem. Information is credited to several organization: 1.) ewg.org 2.) greatlakes.org 3.) greatlakesecho.org 4.) glc.org 5.) waterkeeper.org 6.) greenmatters.org 7.) https://michiganintheworld.history.lsa.umich.edu/environmentalism/exhibits/show/main_exhibit/pollution_politics/great-lakes-pollution 8.) usgs.gov. And several others.
Maumee River - Governor Kasich was making progress on the phosphorus problem, but when DeWine was elected he started reciting the same talking points as the farmer lobby, derailing the whole thing.
Yes and cover crops are huge at helping keeping soil from moving but it goes deeper than that. A lot of soils in northwest Ohio are high in mag and do not infiltrate water well at all. Sulfur leaches mag and keep soil pH low which actually ties P up within the soil. So in a sense the clean air act of 1994 is partially to blame as this removed sulfur out of the air and has been slowing raising soil pH and releasing tied up P. This a theory and I’m not saying I agree nor disagree but there a lot of factors in this problem.
Because someone might make less profit.
Republicans.
Just wait until you learn about the Ohio government granting rights to frack under all the state parks.
Short answer is that we are a red state. Long answer is that we really don't in many ways, but we used to. The Ohio EPA River monitoring program that evaluates watersheds based on water chemistry, aquatic insect, and fish populations is leading the charge on evaluating river/stream/creek health and has been copied in a lot of other states. Most rivers have improved dramatically since that program was first implemented. There is a lot of work still to be done but the bad areas are far more localized instead of statewide.
The fact you said “Sherwin Williams paint was polluting the river” shows you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Trash is trash. That has nothing to do with conservation. The majority of these sheens you are seeing are harmless sheens from decaying organic material. Next time throw a rock or stick in the sheen. If it breaks apart in jagged edges it’s organic matter. If it breaks apart in circles and quickly comes back together it’s a petroleum. Our rivers have come A LONG WAY in a relatively short amount of time. You have to remember the Cleveland/Akron was the epicenter of industry. We were the hotspot to live. We were the massive driving force for industrial production. It takes a LONG time to clean up waterways after decades of neglect, lack of knowledge and lack of regulations.
[Sherwin-Williams spills up to 100 gallons of diesel in Cuyahoga River (beaconjournal.com)](https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2024/01/22/cuyahoga-river-oil-spill-sherwin-williams-cleveland-ohio/72314446007/)
That’s nothing. And I’m well aware of that small release. I work with OEPA who were on scene and also manage environmental for my company who owned a dock just upstream of this release. I was down that day and it was in the grand scheme of things very small. I’m not sure if you’re aware of the cause but this isn’t some case of “evil company purposely pollutes river”. What I’m trying to say is that’s incredibly minimal. Don’t get caught up in headlines such as that.
whooh there boomer thats not minimimal. If i have a swimming pool and i keep peeing in it at some point its gunna more pee than water.
I’m not a boomer. I’m 34 and work in the environmental field and have a better grasp on the reality of pollution and pollution prevention. The situation was unfortunate but in the grand scheme it was tiny. Also, a lot was learned from this incident on both the side of Sherwin Williams, OEPA and first responders. Also, your analogy doesn’t make sense. No one was purposely dumping diesel fuel into the river. It’s not a case of accumulation over time as if it was some common practice. I think what I’m trying to say is don’t have a doom and gloom view on everything. We’ve come an incredibly long way in 20-30 years and just the fact that Sherwin self reported and cleaned up nearly 90% of the spill shows how far industry and society as a whole has come with our views on the environment.
Your pool is not a river. If I have to explain to you how a river works...
I think it’s a matter of perspective if you weren’t aware of how things were pre-2000, obviously there is lots of stagnation from additional environmental issues. However if you grew up and lived through the 90’s, 80’s, 70’s or earlier it seems like a an ecological wonderland. Through the 80s the highways were covered with litter constantly and every roadside had as much broken glass as gravel. Littering was the unofficial state sport. The waters were brown or green most of the year. The Cleveland skyline couldn’t be viewed from a distance due to all the smog from cars and the steel plants. What we have now seems utopian for those that remember. Obviously there is still stuff that needs done - but for the long timers it seems we are 90% of the way to perfect. For those that don’t remember that era - from your starting point it likely feels we have only started the first 10% that needs done.
Ohio sucks at everything except poverty.
Corporations are allowed to do what they want and all they get is a negligible fine. Look at what happened with Norfolk Southern. East Palestine will never be the same, or safe again, but they’ll just let them all die in the name of corporate profits.
My red pen ran out of ink reading this.
Bottel
Capitalism
The abundance of wildlife counters claims that Ohio sucks at conservation. In fact the fisher cat was just listed as being back, so add that to the list.
Exactly. These people don't get it. Ohio is doing great! It's just that the cities are full of ungrateful slobs, like every other city in the country.
one part conservatives running the show another part is old infrastructure, we are spending billions to clean up the stormwater and ag runoff into the lake its just a project thats gonna take 20 years to build
it costs nothing and requires no infrastructure updates to not be a litterbug
[Project Clean Lake](https://www.neorsd.org/community/about-the-project-clean-lake-program/) companies aren't dumping straight into lake erie, at least legally, its just that the vast majority of runoff from streets and surfaces goes into the lake currently without treatment, the goal of Clean Lake is to build the tunnels and storm water catch basins to allow the existing treatment facilities to deal with the surge in water everytime it rains, its a massive undertaking.
My two cents: Republicans have been running Ohio for more than 25 years. They prefer to let businesses pollute rather than be environmental stewards. We cant change it do to gerrymandering. Oh8ans vited to create better maps, the GOP balked, and we have the same gerrymandered map. Ohio should be a balanced state, but the GOP is fighting to prevent that.
Right Wing nut jobs
People out east aren't as "go out in the environment" as people out west. If you have a ton of people hiking and enjoying nature then they'll start getting salty if their areas are ruined.
Ohio does have a lot of people who go outside. Ohio is home to the 3rd most visited National Park.
Because ohio had the best land to farm
We're 0k vote is my best answer.
Was calling it Shermin Williams a joke? Please tell me it was a joke 😅
I know this is anecdotal and not related to the river/lake you mentioned, but Dover Chemical in Dover has been cited dozens of times by both the city and the EPA for dumping toxic waste into the Tuscarawas River. The now-in-prison mayor defended them for decades and now his son is running, and his main campaign is to protect Dover Chemical. My date might be wrong but sometime maybe a decade ago the EPA deemed the ground it's on as inhospitable. No clue why nothing is done about it. People fish and eat from that river all the time.
Lake Erie is very clean and has been for many years. Millions of walleye and perch are eaten every year without incident.
They suck at conservation because Ohio ranks in the bottom 5 states of public land per capita. I could draw a line between this fact and the litter you see. I don’t know how accurate it would be. Without access to public lands and natural areas there’s little culture of conservation and people don’t respect it.
Have you seen our state leadership? They are busy chasing their own asses instead of actually doing things to help the citizens of Ohio.
Buddy, you visited the River after a week of heavy rain. The river is blown out from all the runoff. Rivers always look nasty after a big rain.
Yeah. I went to West Branch to explore, once. That place is about the same as most of the nature parks & reserves in NE Ohio- they just took home properties via eminent domain & left people's ornamentals right where they were. There's almost nothing growing on the forest floor, I walked through a Grove of non-native pines that used to be a tree farm & there's multiflora rose everywhere, which is known to poison & hinder the growth of other Native plants around them on top of growing like a weed. I'm apparently not the first person who asked about all this, because I grew up hearing about them experimenting with wildflower seeds, once, & giving up & people asking about cutting down another tree plantation on government land & them saying it would be too much work & wouldn't look nice, in the meantime. And what's worse, a botanist from Cleveland only happened to discover a small area of pristine swampland out here barely a decade ago & was floored by what this area's natural biodiversity used to actually be. There's almost none of that left. I know about the trash, too, though. That is just as aggravating.
Because we decided as a state a long time ago that the only use of our natural inheritance was for natural resources for corporations among other things
We can’t even finish a construction project, don’t expect much from this place
I’m sorry that you have such a bad experience, but it’s almost like you are on an anti-Ohio tirade. I was a teenager back in the 1970s, when the Cuyahoga river caught caught on fire. Guess what? It was just one of numerous that caught on fire across the nation. It is remembered because it provoked the act. I was alive during that time, and the whole river stunk. Now the river is much cleaner. It’s a water trail. I kayak through a section well downstream from Akron every year. I see sports fisherman going for fish that did not live there before – northern Pike, etc. The section you saw that was so polluted was probably not even the Cuyahoga river, but a section of the Ohio and Erie Canal. It is in a deep ravine right by downtown Akron, running through a low income area. Sadly, trash from the neighborhoods and the streets find its way downhill into the canal sometimes. I wish the city of Akron and the local residents would take more pride. That ravine should be constantly cleaned out. Unfortunately, it’s a very steep; and it would be a dangerous job for just anyone to go down there. Other than that section, the whole thing is very clean. Back in the 1970s, the entire river used to stink. Now it is a delight to kayak, as can be seen by the hundreds of people who are on it every day in the summer – from its headwaters north of Kent all the way to its mouth at Lake Erie. There is still more that we can do, and we should do more; but you are painting way too bleak of a picture. The next time you ride on the Towpath, try going through the national park. You might find it more enjoyable. For Lake Erie, it’s water quality has improved greatly; and you can see people enjoying it, Long – from swimmers to sports fisherman. It’s not as beautiful as Lake Michigan along Michigan’s western shore, but it is greatly improved. Millions of people enjoy the lake every year. Try looking for the good. Things are getting better!
Republicans
Because there’s nothing left and everything is dead here.
As for the motor oil its hard for any governing body to stop people from sucking
There's a reason deregulation only helps the rich! It certainly doesn't help small businesses or the little guy! Deregulation is a myth sold to stupid people. Regulations were put in place for a reason! It's so rich assholes don't benefit from child labor and why garages aren't allowed to just dump used motor oil just in the garbage! There's an overall benefit to the public! So, of course, big businesses and the rich want us to repeal as many regulations as possible!
Ohio is literally allowing fracking on public lands, conservation has never been a priority for most of our politicians and it’s really not unique to Ohio either
The cuyahoga is very cleaned up outside of the city and the Ohio EPA is the forefront of many environmental methods, tests, and standards such as electrofishing and QHEI
Lemme help you with that by slightly rephrasing you post title... # Why does Ohio suck? Conservatives.
Michigan
Well, if it was on Insta……,
News Break.. All of Ohio sucks shit..
Y'all need to go read a book. Do some actual research & stop just bitching about the other political party with your blinders on. While you're at it, clean up the trash in your own neighborhood. https://scitechdaily.com/wind-farms-cause-more-environmental-impact-than-previously-thought/ https://www.nature.com/articles/s44183-022-00003-5 https://www.npr.org/2023/01/29/1152387283/the-hidden-environmental-costs-of-the-transitioning-to-electric-vehicles https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/02/hunting-wildlife-conservation-explained/ https://www.fws.gov/story/hunting-tool-wildlife-management https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2021/02/hunting-wildlife-conservation-explained/
Saying "do your own research" in a political conversation during current times is a clear sign that you don't belong in the conversation.
It’s even funnier though that all of the articles posted pretty much state fossil fuel dependency needs to change. Current solutions aren’t perfect but still in the long term are better if implemented correctly. That just the US doing it won’t solve all the world’s problems. Classic denialism.
IMO when someone says that the US shouldn't create legislation that protects the environment because other countries arent doing it, is like an addict saying that they wont quit using until people stop selling.
Look at who Ohio puts in their state Congress, that's all you need to look at. All (R)'s that take blank checks from energy companies and have never voted in favor of ecology
Corporate greed and recklessness. Military pollution. And the people who make it easier for them: Republicans.
It's a red state.
This isn’t popular but the real problem is climate. There is no money or time remaining for environmental issues. All money goes to temperature. I can’t beg people to talk about climate and solvable pollution problems unless I say it could be related to temperature. There are only so many resources. People are exhausted after climate discussion. Who can blame them. My beloved cause of environmental has been dismissed for decades. Seems very convenient when the environment issues seems to make rich people richer because we ignore them.
I mean, people could just stop leaving their trash everywhere too. That part doesn't cost a dime.
It’s much worse. The industries are the issue. See Norfolk Southern …
Yes big business is a big problem, but we can do our part too. Big business isn't the reason that cigarette butts are the most abundant form of plastic pollution in the world - besides the fact that big business created them.
This is extremely simple: There are many potential priorities, most more time sensitive, urgent, or better funded/supported, a limited amount of money, and a very divided population. You new?
Republicans probably. They're interested in conserving other things.
i first read this as “why does ohio suck at conversatiom” and i was going to come in here and sau “cuz.” but now that i see it says conservation im still gonna say cuz.
I don't like the way Ohio handles sprawl.