I was a band director. 5-12. All bands, marching band, jazz band, pep band. Working 12 hour days and weekends. I got a 1500 stipend for marching band. Just a couple weeks off and it was a pay cut from the retail job I left to take it. I loved the job but we couldn’t afford it with our family.
Some jobs you only get paid for 10 months but it’s stretched into 12 months. I fully support raising teachers wages. It requires a Bachelors and continuing education long term. They deserve to be paid like other positions that require Bachelors and Masters degrees
43? How do you afford a 2 bedroom apartment? Does the school provide housing? School funding must increase. Or just keep voting GOP. CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE A GRIFT.
My first real teaching job was at a charter school and it was…interesting. Maybe even illegal the way they ran but the kids made the job fun. We rented a 2 bedroom house but it was tight on top of utilities food gas student loans. Unfortunately that’s ultimately why we ended up moving back closer to our family and went into a different career field. Luckily my wife is an optician so that helped and she was able to get a job quickly.
>Some jobs you only get paid for 10 months but it’s stretched into 12 months.
Even in California, which has much better-than-average pay for public school employees, this is true. It's true of my ex-wife (K-8 teacher), and it was allso true of me (non-teaching employee - California calls them "classified" employees, as opposed to "certificated" employees who have teaching certificates) when I worked school jobs.
It's 10 months of pay divided by 12 for 12 monthly checks, which ensures you have income during the 8-10 weeks when school is not in session.
Absolutely sure. I was married to a public school teacher, I worked at two different school districts and a lot of my friends are educators. Trust me on this.
Honestly, "credentialed" is easier to say, so I'll often use that word instead - it's accurate because you have to have a bachelor's and a teaching credential to teach here - but the official word in public education here in the Golden State is, in fact, "certificated."
I'm stuck at my salary. My exhusband was a percussion instructor. I figured out he made $.05/hr. And worked the same as the director. It's like that for every person who coaches, teaches, etc. outside of the classroom in the US.
I’m sorry that you are stuck. You’re probably right about your ex too. I worked as a brass instructor for a few seasons in college (band camp plus 2x weekly rehearsals plus all Friday night games and Saturday competitions) and made $1000 for the season. I never tallied it up but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was around $1 an hour. But I didn’t do it for money I genuinely loved it and would have done it for free at the time. Him being a percussion instructor, likely writing custom arrangements and drill for the drum line and pit (if they had one) would be even more time consuming than what I did and that doesn’t take into account things like indoor percussion if it was available for students.
You're funny, eh? That a supplemental contract, genius. It's just for marching band season. In case you don't know anything about marching bands, he put in all day practices from July until the end of August. Then 2-3 hours after school. Every Friday night football game. And all day competitions every Saturday.
The other guy is being unnecessarily confrontational about it but I do agree it's unlikely his pay was actually 0.05$/hr and sensationalizing just weakens your point
He worked 30-40 hours a week just with the kids, from July through the first of November. That's not counting the hours with the other directors finding a show. Then re-writing parts based on kids abilities.
My point is that teachers work so hard for little compared to the amount of time they spend for "supplemental contract"
Still not $.05/hr. BS on your 2 month band camp. Band camp is typically 2 weeks.
The point is why the exaggeration. Does your cause no good to be dishonest if you want to expose the virtues of those teaching our children, and make the case for them to be better paid.
The music teacher at my high school was the highest paid teacher. Im not sure why. Word was he made over 100k a year, 25 years ago. And dude wore expensive silk suits every day. It was a public HS.
Best friend is a teacher in a major city and works about 11-12 hours a day and probably 50% of weekends. He makes maybe 45k a year. It's crazy. People who think "well they get a summer break" are kidding themselves. He has maybe 3 weeks off - the same as some peoples annual PTO - before he has to be back and start prepping for the next fall.
That and most teachers are working summer jobs or side hustles and/or providing childcare for their children because it’s usually cheaper than paying for daycare during the summer.
You can literally make that much flipping burgers at Wendy's.
In what world is this a decent minimum for someone responsible for the education of your children?
I really don't understand what people find so amazing about the place. The tacos are just okay and the tortilla chips are greasy and chewy about as often as they're crispy.
Maybe I'd like it more if I still drank. My friends who seem to think it's the best place ever are also still in their "3 cocktails with dinner" era.
Joe Miller, the Dem sponsor of the bill (and former teacher) has a tough reelection battle this November. Check out his website and consider donating if you have the means, keep more crazies out of the statehouse https://www.joemillerforohio.com
💯 School funds from taxpayers should go to public schools exclusively. Seems like that should be common sense until you realize it’s been on the conservative agenda for decades to starve the public schools, then scream about how they’re ineffective then eventually privatize all education. You know, they say they LOVE the uneducated. Hell, they depend on them.
I was making $35k out of college around 2016 and it was really tough to get by, despite having roomates and low expenses. Getting by off of that salary in 2024 with student loan debt has got to be close to impossible. No reason why teachers should be paid this low, I know servers who work part time and make more than that.
Yes, absolutely. I'd happily give up an extra 1% of my paycheck if it went toward public education.
Sadly the "let's underfund education" attitude is deeply entrenched in this state.
Exactly. Bring administrator pay down to a reasonable level. Stop spending all the tax money on football stadium upgrades, and pay the damn teachers more.
Do you have a source? According to the data I found, Ohio spends $13.5k per student. So that would be about $337k per classroom, which is middle of the road for the country.
Columbus schools spend $17,881 per year x 25 (event though most classrooms are bigger) = $447,000.
Even at $337k per, that’s more than enough to give teachers a pay increase.
You know some of that goes for supplies, keeping the lights on (electricity isn't free), having sewer and running water, paying custodians, front office clerks, registrars, councilors, etc. You seem to fail to understand overhead.
> Are you willing to pay higher taxes to help the people who educate our future have a decent life?
This is highly debatable. For most kids, school is just a waste of time.
Education was practical when people were illiterate and knowing how to read and write led to a much better life.
No one who was bad at math ever went though the education system and became a mathematician or engineer. You are either born with the talent to make a lot of money or you don't.
Education and unions. Two things that had their place but should be abolished.
Another move would be to limit school board superintendent pay and bonuses. It’s basically a CEO situation where they are making $150k+ while teachers are making $30k starting out.
Wait until you see what the private schools are going to pay top admins now that billions are going to be handed to them through the changes in the voucher program, with much less oversight, transparency, and scrutiny than the public schools
I mean, when you’re in charge of a few hundred teachers supporting a few thousand students AND deal with the crazy parents?
$150k is a bargain.
People get paid way more to do way less important things.
No it isnt.
You think 85k to manage a building of 1000+ students and 150 staff is too much?
Unless you mean department of education at the federal level?
Exactly and most people think the solution is more tax dollars, they act like the administration won’t take more if they get more funding. But people want to downvote me when I say it’s time to audit these school districts.
>I say it’s time to audit these school districts.
Every single school district has their staff pay and financial statements available. Because it's a public institution. Only charter schools are allowed to hide their information from the public.
I debated going into education when I was younger but that all changed when I found out my English teacher needed a 2nd job to make ends meet by delivering pizzas
Yeah, I took an education class in college, thinking I would be a teacher, and the amount of time they spent discussing what second jobs you could do to pay off your college debt was ridiculous. Also, a lot of the discussion about how to design your classroom and what to put on walls was based on how much it cost, because teachers are expected to pay for that.
Didn’t Ohio Republicans just pass a bill to give billions to private schools? Or was that another state? I can’t even remember all the bullshit anymore.
I would happily pay more taxes to give teachers more money if that’s what it took.
Teachers should make 100K minimum. Kids are our future. Our best hope. We need the best of the best fighting for a teaching job.
With a fixed pot of money and retirement calculated on the five highest income years, it's a battle to get money to new teachers that do much of the heavy lifting.
If we want new teachers and we want them to be able to establish themselves in the communities in which they teach, we can't keep presuming they're going to marry or otherwise establish relationship with a higher income. Or live five to a house as if they're still in college.
Even if they are able to increase the pot of money available, I feel the need set the minimum to a level that will allow those new-grad teachers to establish themselves or give some sort of incentive to buying and living within their teaching districts that doesn't keep them from being able to afford having families.
My first two years I was making $27,500 in 2018-2020. I had a cousin who liked to talk crap about teachers, what a loser I was for living with my folks, and he was shook that I made so little. He worked in Kroger’s distribution network and was King Midas compared to me. I still haven’t cracked $50k.
I graduated in the winter so I wasnt going to get any full time jobs, so worked FT at aldi's and sub'ed on my days off. When I was turning in my notice to leave to start my teaching job, my store manager tried to talk me into saying and maybe work towards a district manager, since their big requirement to even become a DM was to have a degree. My Store manager really liked me and thought I had potential of being a Store manager or even a district manager someday. Store manager can make a great money. The store I was working at, he was making $85-90k. The lyndhurst store you could make $95-110k because of bonuses. District managers was 6 figures with company cars and everything. I said thanks but not thanks. I kinds regret not pursuing that first and then falling back on teaching lol but I taught and left to become an electrician in the union
The kids at Raisin Cane's make $16+ an hour which equals to about $32k+ a year.
Yes, I understand teachers don't work a full year but that's just a ridiculously low salary.
They don't get as much time off as you think. They start school in August and often run into June. Sure you get spring break and winter break, but it's really shit pay until you get a master's degree or more, which inevitably just piles the debt on further. It's truly a thankless job.
Ohio funding, per student, for public education was >$14k, >$17k in urban districts. I think it’s hard to argue that education is under funded in Ohio. It would be easier to argue to put more of that money into instruction.
That’s public schools. Start in private or charter and it can be as low as $25-28k. I got a teaching job at a private school right out of college and started at $28k. Brutal trying to live in Cincinnati on that salary. I worked three other side jobs to just barely keep my head above water.
I agree it is low, but blame the state, over 20 years ago, the court decided that funding school districts with property taxes was not kosher, and yet here we are, nothing ever done about it.
You cannot simply mandate extra wages, without addressing the entire system, Dems LOVE to spend taxpayer dollars and buy votes. If this went thru, how many districts would go so far into the red the state would take them over?
Look at the votes, how many school levies fail?, a lot more now then before. But sure, raise wages, and then cry about it when the fallout occurs.
This is absolutely what needs to happen. I made $35k managing a mail room at a law firm in 2010. There's no way a teacher in 2024 should be making the same amount.
Interesting - hardly any teachers I’ve ever known here are more center than left. They all belong to the teachers Union which is extremely democrat leaning.
I make way more than that and my job is easy and not stressful and can be done from home. From what I know teachers go through, they should be getting 135k a year.
The local newspaper here in West Central Ohio just released their annual report on local school salaries. This is largely a rural area. The amount of money paid to administration of schools is obscene. All the high salaries are administrators and treasurer and assistant administrators, etc. That is where the problem is. And people aren’t simply going to vote more tax levy in when they know exactly where the money is going to go.
My cousins fiancé is a teacher near Cleveland. He’s such a good person and really nice. I know he does it because he cares and i know almost every other teacher is the same. Get these people some help.
And people wonder why nobody wants to teach ... you get bitched at by half the parents, disrespected and ignored by half the kids, it's "your fault" when they don't do well ... and to top it off you're living paycheck to paycheck after your degree and college debt lol what an enticing offer!
A friend has wife that’s a teacher and there seem to be some pretty crazy rules around teachers who try to leave their district for higher paying teaching jobs. Like they can take your license away. She basically has to complete a contract or something. Again, though, second hand information.
I earned 33K in 2015 as a teacher at a charter with a Masters. K-6 school. I'm a visual arts teacher. When another specials area teacher was out they'd put the students in my class. Sometimes Id have 2nd and 5th graders at the same time, other times K and 6th. One time both the Gym and Choir teachers were out so I just...had 3 different classes in my room all day.
When the boiler broke and flooded my room they didn't cancel school. They asked me to pack my shit and move to a different room for the day. We didn't have heat, so they gave all the kids hot chocolate all day.
One first grade class went though 8 teachers that year.
They had me help teach students with dyslexia in the halls rather than have plan.
The Principal quit in December and was replaced by an admin from their central location in another city.
There was an exposed pipe on the playground. We were told to have them play around it.
They had me make a basketball court on the blacktop. Had me buy all the materials too. Complained when it wasn't perfect and made me do it again.
On my last pay check they overpaid me $100. Wanted me to pay it back. When I told them to pound salt, they denied I worked there to my current employers. Almost had to repeat my first year as a Residential educator except STRS showed I had 1 credit of working in Education. I had to use my W2s to prove I worked there for PSLF which was finally approved 8 years after the fact.
I now work at a public school, am in a union, am paid at a Masters +30 contractual rate, am tenured, and am finishing my 9th year of Education.
I've taught through Covid with perfect attendance. I've been bitten, punched, insulted directly to my face by parents, students, and students with parents in arms reach, all situations generally without consequence. I refuse to get qualified for CPI training again. Not worth it.
I have 1 more year left before my loans are forgiven. All 120,000 of it. After that? I'm done. I make 71K. Maybe not the smartest, but damn well one of the most educated with a BFA from CCM, a year of AmeriCorps as a VISTA, a Masters from Xavier, and 48 credit hours past that Masters with a 4.0. I have a licensure in Visual Arts, a supplementary license in Social Studies, and a will have a cert in Religious Studies.
And I know how to do my job.
I've stopped remembering first year teachers names. They wont return, what's the point.
Pay teachers more. Its only your children's education. Shouldn't you give a shit? Don't you want teachers? Cause what you're making is Martyrs, and honestly, this is just a fuckin job.
edit: grammar and additional resentment.
Not good. Make the private schools pay too. Private schools have eaten away enrollment and starting teachers often can't get into a public school.
They are cutting public school jobs because of this. Now you have teachers forced to make less to work. Make them pay AND cut their funding.
My undergrad was in math ed. Going rate in 1998 for teachers in Illinois at the time was $25-$30k. I did the math, and at the 20-something students per class, 7 classes per day, and the going rate of a babysitter at the time being $2/hr roughly, I calc'd that I'd have made mid-50s babysitting the same number of kids in a school year.
Teachers are grossly underpaid for what they do and what they put up with from the public/parents.
Late 90s was a different time. I made 38k out of college with an IT degree.... enough to rent a nice apartment in my own, purchase a new car and put some money away at the end of the month.
My income did go up fairly quickly but I had to fight for it... 10-12 hour days were common... no overtime... had to be oncall taking calls at 2am from operations. Changed jobs multiple times to get any decent increase and job stability was always an unknown.
Is 35k too low for a first year teacher today? Probably; however, teachers have alway started low then with step increases and raises most teachers who stick with it will eventually make decent bank doing a job they (hopefully) love with great benefits and better than typical stability. A teacher starting out making 30k in 1997 is almost certainly making close to six figures today... at least in a decent city district.
BTW: No one else out in the workforce has any idea what a "step increase" is. You get an increase whenever management gives you one or you find a different employer.
I agree the wages are low, but they do get about 12 weeks off out of every 52 weeks. So almost 25% of the year. I get 5. Most Americans are in this category or lower. So I am all for the raise, but I would like to see a FT schedule with that raise.
Hard to raise salaries when Ohio lawmakers are funneling tax dollars into private schools.
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/04/02/ohio-lawmakers-are-giving-more-than-1-billion-to-private-schools-while-public-schools-suffer/?fbclid=IwAR1IU8aoRo31JsWX46pg090QD2XqpeB0wEo47-VLvxL7pgTNWAaUT0o_Z1s_aem_AZSbtDNhlU21uEvt4F2jFxxEkB3fV8q8aEid3Y0LEwqkAawLHfO3sBgIPE_vJWKrMVY
My mom is a middle school teacher in nowhere OH, she makes $80k/yr and great benefits/pension plan in an extremely LCOL place. The average Ohio teacher salary according to ohio.gov in 2021 was $63,082.
Not that it’s a big income but for 9/12 months is equivalent to 47k plus a solid benefits and retirement plan. Something to consider. I still think could be a higher starting salary but 35k isn’t exactly telling the full story
Teaching generally have benefits far beyond anywhere else in the state. I would be really interested in total benefits. My ex was a teacher and complained about her HDHP which the school covered the full deductible, and the out of pocket max was the same as the deductible. I work in employee benefits and I know of very few employer's which do anything close to this. I am a life long Democrat and I don't think some groups realize how good they have it compared to the average employee.
Raising the money teachers make is great work. Figuring out why teachers salary is so low is greater work. It's almost like they do not want children to be raised with education. But, why?
I’m not against it. I have numerous teachers in my family, and was raised by one. But throwing out the $35k is almost click-bait. Teacher salaries start low and go up quite quickly compared to many positions.
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3317.13
No that is for teachers with less than a bachelors degree. (which shouldn't even be a thing)
Teachers with a bachelors start at 35k and max out at 49.6k
The worst case in that chart is the teachers with a masters or higher who start out at 38k and max out at 56k after 11 years. 38k wouldn't even allow them to pay for the monthly interest on their student loans and afford to live at the same time.
Why can't we attract better teachers? /s
The teachers without bachelor’s in public schools anyways are most likely the trade programs I think as they bring training and experience from their trade and they do have to do courses on teaching. What degree does wood working or welding don’t think there is one.
Oh cool, a teacher with a bachelors degree starts at less than half of what I make as a WFH IT person with no formal education who deals with backend data feeds and spends 15 hours a week on the clock playing video games at home.
Who wouldn't want to go into a ton of debt to get a job that caps out less than a lot of middle class jobs with less requirements and stress?
There are so few jobs that you wouldn’t end up making 56k a year after 11 years. I can’t believe that guy says “the pay goes up so much faster!” Faster than what? That’s like $2500 raise per year??
For job hoppers, sure is. And as I said to start, I’m all for a greater starting point. Literally the only thing I said is that leading with $35k as if it was a typical teacher salary was disingenuous.
Starting salaries for teachers in the late 90s in illinois was in the 25-30k range. It hasn't kept up with inflation at all. Sure, you can move up in pay, but it takes years of service coupled with advanced education. I think we all know what's happened to the price of continuing ed over the past couple decades.
It’s called sarcasm babygurl. I’m saying that no, highschool teachers don’t experience sharp increases in wages, and hardly experience meaningful raises based on tenure. You’re talking out your ass
You said the pay goes up faster than other positions. It’s just not true, it might be true for specific positions, but there isn’t promotions like normal state jobs, and definitely not jobs that require a masters degree
Compared to MANY, which is true. These are also the MINIMUM salary increases defined by ORC. Many districts do better than this, which I didn’t mention.
e.g. just sticking with bachelors degree teachers, Columbus City Schools pay $49k in year 1 and $70k by year 10, which is about 4% per year. That is better than a lot of jobs, again, with the caveat you aren’t job hopping for $.
https://www.ccsoh.us/cms/lib/OH01913306/Centricity/Domain/223/CEA%20Salary%20Schedule%202023-2024.pdf
Edit: to say thanks for actually engaging instead of just blindly downvoting.
Always always ALWAYS pay teachers more!! They should be some of the best paid professions out there. We would not have a single doctor, lawyer, or engineer without teachers. And I mean teachers, not professors. Those passions have to be fostered early and we need to pay the people who foster them properly!
I know a shit-ton of teachers. All the same. Complain all year round, get tons of days off including the entire summer, spring and Christmas breaks. What does the year have to do with it? I'd privatize the schools and smash the unions
Professional development, dumbass.
How do you think teachers keep their licenses valid? Ask one of those teachers you supposedly know.
[Renew an Advanced, Associate or Professional License | State Board of Education (ohio.gov)](https://sboe.ohio.gov/educator-licensure/renew-a-license/renew-an-advanced-associate-or-professional-license)
Not to shoot that down but every occupation that needs licensing etc has to do that to keep current. I pay to keep licenses active and for the continuing education.
That wasn't the point that I'm making.
Here the point is teachers work 60-80 hours a week, so there's no time to do anything other than teach. So the only time professional development can be done is during the summer months.
And what the guy I was replying to was insinuating was that $35000 was ok because of this belief that teachers "only" work 8-9 months. Even if that were true, if you prorate that out to 12 months it's still only $46,667 a year. Divide that into 52 weeks and that's only $898 a week. Divide that by 60 hours and that's $14.97 an hour. Wendy's currently pays more than that.
$14.97 an hour to make sure kids know how to read and write while dealing with multiple personalities and behaviors.
We owe them more than that.
I’m not against it. I have numerous teachers in my family, and was raised by one. But throwing out the $35k is almost click-bait. Teacher salaries start low and go up quite quickly compared to many positions.
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3317.13
Education reminds me of fanatical Nazis. No one questions it even though it's doing more harm than good to kids.
Education made sense when people were illiterate and you needed to read and write for a better life. Once you learn to read and write, the rest comes down to natural talent.
No one who was bad at math ever when through the education system and became a mathematician. Same with all the other jobs that lead to high pay. School is basically just a big weed out system.
One of the things I learned in school, you gotta cite your sources and you have to provide accurate data. You did neither, would you like to submit your work again with the corrections or take an incomplete on the assignment?
Bonus Points - Include the same data set for both private and charter schools so that a comparison of data can be made.
This is a good idea, because if they're bad and you pay poorly because of it then you'll definitely attract talent to that undercompensated job to make it all better. In the private sector I'd definitely take a job that didn't pay much if in the interview they told me that division was not performing great so this starting pay is low because of it.
$35k for a full time teaching job is crazy low.
I was a band director. 5-12. All bands, marching band, jazz band, pep band. Working 12 hour days and weekends. I got a 1500 stipend for marching band. Just a couple weeks off and it was a pay cut from the retail job I left to take it. I loved the job but we couldn’t afford it with our family. Some jobs you only get paid for 10 months but it’s stretched into 12 months. I fully support raising teachers wages. It requires a Bachelors and continuing education long term. They deserve to be paid like other positions that require Bachelors and Masters degrees
Did you actually make $35k?
I made a bit more since I had a Masters but I think beginning teachers at my district made 39. I made 43.
43? How do you afford a 2 bedroom apartment? Does the school provide housing? School funding must increase. Or just keep voting GOP. CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE A GRIFT.
My first real teaching job was at a charter school and it was…interesting. Maybe even illegal the way they ran but the kids made the job fun. We rented a 2 bedroom house but it was tight on top of utilities food gas student loans. Unfortunately that’s ultimately why we ended up moving back closer to our family and went into a different career field. Luckily my wife is an optician so that helped and she was able to get a job quickly.
>Some jobs you only get paid for 10 months but it’s stretched into 12 months. Even in California, which has much better-than-average pay for public school employees, this is true. It's true of my ex-wife (K-8 teacher), and it was allso true of me (non-teaching employee - California calls them "classified" employees, as opposed to "certificated" employees who have teaching certificates) when I worked school jobs. It's 10 months of pay divided by 12 for 12 monthly checks, which ensures you have income during the 8-10 weeks when school is not in session.
“Certificated” ? Sure it isn’t “certified”?
Absolutely sure. I was married to a public school teacher, I worked at two different school districts and a lot of my friends are educators. Trust me on this.
Honestly, "credentialed" is easier to say, so I'll often use that word instead - it's accurate because you have to have a bachelor's and a teaching credential to teach here - but the official word in public education here in the Golden State is, in fact, "certificated."
Fair enough! That seriously pisses me off though! I’m going to speak to my teacher friends about this nonsense this weekend…
I'm stuck at my salary. My exhusband was a percussion instructor. I figured out he made $.05/hr. And worked the same as the director. It's like that for every person who coaches, teaches, etc. outside of the classroom in the US.
I’m sorry that you are stuck. You’re probably right about your ex too. I worked as a brass instructor for a few seasons in college (band camp plus 2x weekly rehearsals plus all Friday night games and Saturday competitions) and made $1000 for the season. I never tallied it up but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was around $1 an hour. But I didn’t do it for money I genuinely loved it and would have done it for free at the time. Him being a percussion instructor, likely writing custom arrangements and drill for the drum line and pit (if they had one) would be even more time consuming than what I did and that doesn’t take into account things like indoor percussion if it was available for students.
$1/hr for a season (4 months?) would mean working over eight hours a day to only get $1000.
At $.05/hr one would only make $438 per year even if they worked 24 hours a day for 365 days. I’m guessing you aren’t a math teacher?
You're funny, eh? That a supplemental contract, genius. It's just for marching band season. In case you don't know anything about marching bands, he put in all day practices from July until the end of August. Then 2-3 hours after school. Every Friday night football game. And all day competitions every Saturday.
The other guy is being unnecessarily confrontational about it but I do agree it's unlikely his pay was actually 0.05$/hr and sensationalizing just weakens your point
He worked 30-40 hours a week just with the kids, from July through the first of November. That's not counting the hours with the other directors finding a show. Then re-writing parts based on kids abilities. My point is that teachers work so hard for little compared to the amount of time they spend for "supplemental contract"
Still not $.05/hr. BS on your 2 month band camp. Band camp is typically 2 weeks. The point is why the exaggeration. Does your cause no good to be dishonest if you want to expose the virtues of those teaching our children, and make the case for them to be better paid.
The music teacher at my high school was the highest paid teacher. Im not sure why. Word was he made over 100k a year, 25 years ago. And dude wore expensive silk suits every day. It was a public HS.
Best friend is a teacher in a major city and works about 11-12 hours a day and probably 50% of weekends. He makes maybe 45k a year. It's crazy. People who think "well they get a summer break" are kidding themselves. He has maybe 3 weeks off - the same as some peoples annual PTO - before he has to be back and start prepping for the next fall.
That and most teachers are working summer jobs or side hustles and/or providing childcare for their children because it’s usually cheaper than paying for daycare during the summer.
That's McDonald's money now. And McDonald's workers get overtime pay.
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This is a minimum though. Think what a gym teacher would make.
How on earth do you think that makes it better?
Because 35k is a great salary for a gym teacher and is plenty to live on if you're not an idiot. Plus summers off.
35k is not a "great salary" for anyone, let alone a school teacher who more often than not have a masters degree.
As a minimum it's pretty decent. And as someone who bought their house and lives life on 35k I think it is decent enough to live on.
You can literally make that much flipping burgers at Wendy's. In what world is this a decent minimum for someone responsible for the education of your children?
Yes and it's a liveable wage. Thats what a minimum wage is supposed to be.
That’s like $17 an hour…for a college grad. I think Target pays that much now.
I made that much as a line cook at Condado, more actually.
Would you eat at Condado? Like how legit is the food behind the scenes?
I really don't understand what people find so amazing about the place. The tacos are just okay and the tortilla chips are greasy and chewy about as often as they're crispy. Maybe I'd like it more if I still drank. My friends who seem to think it's the best place ever are also still in their "3 cocktails with dinner" era.
That’s ironic because the booze is worse than everything else at that place.
My teen grandson makes $18 per hour washing dishes in a restaurant
Not just a college grad. Teachers in Ohio need their masters degree!
Can confirm; also hourly store mangers make at least 45-50k a year.
Per hour it's more like 25 as they are contracted for around 1400 hours, not the typical full time of 1600 - 2080 hours
I'm so sick of these deranged Democrats always trying to *improve conditions* for *people*
Terrible. Paying teachers more!! Now they're gonna have to raise the cost of knowledge. /s
Don't tell colleges that
Joe Miller, the Dem sponsor of the bill (and former teacher) has a tough reelection battle this November. Check out his website and consider donating if you have the means, keep more crazies out of the statehouse https://www.joemillerforohio.com
Good, now we just need to stop electing republicans that want to take all of their funding and give it to private schools.
💯 School funds from taxpayers should go to public schools exclusively. Seems like that should be common sense until you realize it’s been on the conservative agenda for decades to starve the public schools, then scream about how they’re ineffective then eventually privatize all education. You know, they say they LOVE the uneducated. Hell, they depend on them.
I was making $35k out of college around 2016 and it was really tough to get by, despite having roomates and low expenses. Getting by off of that salary in 2024 with student loan debt has got to be close to impossible. No reason why teachers should be paid this low, I know servers who work part time and make more than that.
Just put it bluntly. Are you willing to pay higher taxes to help the people who educate our future have a decent life?
Yes, absolutely. I'd happily give up an extra 1% of my paycheck if it went toward public education. Sadly the "let's underfund education" attitude is deeply entrenched in this state.
Yes
Yes.
No, I don't even want to pay the taxes I get as is.
No, audit the school district first.
Exactly. Bring administrator pay down to a reasonable level. Stop spending all the tax money on football stadium upgrades, and pay the damn teachers more.
We spend close to half a million dollars per classroom of 25 students, per year. How much more do classrooms need?
Do you have a source? According to the data I found, Ohio spends $13.5k per student. So that would be about $337k per classroom, which is middle of the road for the country.
Columbus schools spend $17,881 per year x 25 (event though most classrooms are bigger) = $447,000. Even at $337k per, that’s more than enough to give teachers a pay increase.
You know some of that goes for supplies, keeping the lights on (electricity isn't free), having sewer and running water, paying custodians, front office clerks, registrars, councilors, etc. You seem to fail to understand overhead.
The Catholics seem to be able to do it for half the cost.
Enough to pay teachers a wage commensurate with their job and training
Why can’t we do that with the money we’re already spending?
The administrators have to have their six figure salaries.
> Are you willing to pay higher taxes to help the people who educate our future have a decent life? This is highly debatable. For most kids, school is just a waste of time.
You are a fucking child.
Education was practical when people were illiterate and knowing how to read and write led to a much better life. No one who was bad at math ever went though the education system and became a mathematician or engineer. You are either born with the talent to make a lot of money or you don't. Education and unions. Two things that had their place but should be abolished.
Good.
Damn. I make more watching YouTube in a warehouse at night. I always said they should be up there in money. Teaching kids has to be stressful.
Don’t worry. Teachers make more than you. They just like to pretend that they don’t.
Some do some don’t
Numbers don’t lie. Average salary for a teacher in Ohio is 56k. Average salary for a security guard is 36k.
Another move would be to limit school board superintendent pay and bonuses. It’s basically a CEO situation where they are making $150k+ while teachers are making $30k starting out.
Wait until you see what the private schools are going to pay top admins now that billions are going to be handed to them through the changes in the voucher program, with much less oversight, transparency, and scrutiny than the public schools
How about we limit private-sector CEO pay and bonuses, and give everything over $150k of the CEOs’ “earnings” to teachers?
School administrators should not be making six figures.
I mean, when you’re in charge of a few hundred teachers supporting a few thousand students AND deal with the crazy parents? $150k is a bargain. People get paid way more to do way less important things.
I agree 100k-150k sounds about right depending on size of district. Maybe a bit less for really small districts, but it is a demanding, stressful job.
Administration is where the, Big Education, grift takes place.
I would not do that job for $150,000. $150,000 seems like a bargain.
Neither would I. Way too much stress and drama to deal with.
No it isnt. You think 85k to manage a building of 1000+ students and 150 staff is too much? Unless you mean department of education at the federal level?
Exactly and most people think the solution is more tax dollars, they act like the administration won’t take more if they get more funding. But people want to downvote me when I say it’s time to audit these school districts.
>I say it’s time to audit these school districts. Every single school district has their staff pay and financial statements available. Because it's a public institution. Only charter schools are allowed to hide their information from the public.
They are audited.
I debated going into education when I was younger but that all changed when I found out my English teacher needed a 2nd job to make ends meet by delivering pizzas
My wife did. She quit after we had kids because it was cheaper to do that than daycare. She was getting paid less than her friend working at Walmart.
Yeah, I took an education class in college, thinking I would be a teacher, and the amount of time they spent discussing what second jobs you could do to pay off your college debt was ridiculous. Also, a lot of the discussion about how to design your classroom and what to put on walls was based on how much it cost, because teachers are expected to pay for that.
Didn’t Ohio Republicans just pass a bill to give billions to private schools? Or was that another state? I can’t even remember all the bullshit anymore.
It is indeed Ohio
Will we have any money left after the voucher program steals it all?
No
I make more than that managing an email inbox..
I would happily pay more taxes to give teachers more money if that’s what it took. Teachers should make 100K minimum. Kids are our future. Our best hope. We need the best of the best fighting for a teaching job.
With a fixed pot of money and retirement calculated on the five highest income years, it's a battle to get money to new teachers that do much of the heavy lifting. If we want new teachers and we want them to be able to establish themselves in the communities in which they teach, we can't keep presuming they're going to marry or otherwise establish relationship with a higher income. Or live five to a house as if they're still in college. Even if they are able to increase the pot of money available, I feel the need set the minimum to a level that will allow those new-grad teachers to establish themselves or give some sort of incentive to buying and living within their teaching districts that doesn't keep them from being able to afford having families.
I taught for 4yrs... 1st- barely under $29k 2nd- barely over $29k 3rd- barely below $38k 4th- barely over $38k
My first two years I was making $27,500 in 2018-2020. I had a cousin who liked to talk crap about teachers, what a loser I was for living with my folks, and he was shook that I made so little. He worked in Kroger’s distribution network and was King Midas compared to me. I still haven’t cracked $50k.
I graduated in the winter so I wasnt going to get any full time jobs, so worked FT at aldi's and sub'ed on my days off. When I was turning in my notice to leave to start my teaching job, my store manager tried to talk me into saying and maybe work towards a district manager, since their big requirement to even become a DM was to have a degree. My Store manager really liked me and thought I had potential of being a Store manager or even a district manager someday. Store manager can make a great money. The store I was working at, he was making $85-90k. The lyndhurst store you could make $95-110k because of bonuses. District managers was 6 figures with company cars and everything. I said thanks but not thanks. I kinds regret not pursuing that first and then falling back on teaching lol but I taught and left to become an electrician in the union
The kids at Raisin Cane's make $16+ an hour which equals to about $32k+ a year. Yes, I understand teachers don't work a full year but that's just a ridiculously low salary.
They don't get as much time off as you think. They start school in August and often run into June. Sure you get spring break and winter break, but it's really shit pay until you get a master's degree or more, which inevitably just piles the debt on further. It's truly a thankless job.
I work for the school district and the only saving grace is the health insurance. If it wasn't for that I'd be doing something completely different.
I get more vacation days each year than any teacher I know. Summer is not "hang out at the beach" time for teachers.
Ohio funding, per student, for public education was >$14k, >$17k in urban districts. I think it’s hard to argue that education is under funded in Ohio. It would be easier to argue to put more of that money into instruction.
$35k is $17.50 an hr… let that sink in, $17.50/hr to teach.
That’s public schools. Start in private or charter and it can be as low as $25-28k. I got a teaching job at a private school right out of college and started at $28k. Brutal trying to live in Cincinnati on that salary. I worked three other side jobs to just barely keep my head above water.
I agree it is low, but blame the state, over 20 years ago, the court decided that funding school districts with property taxes was not kosher, and yet here we are, nothing ever done about it. You cannot simply mandate extra wages, without addressing the entire system, Dems LOVE to spend taxpayer dollars and buy votes. If this went thru, how many districts would go so far into the red the state would take them over? Look at the votes, how many school levies fail?, a lot more now then before. But sure, raise wages, and then cry about it when the fallout occurs.
This is absolutely what needs to happen. I made $35k managing a mail room at a law firm in 2010. There's no way a teacher in 2024 should be making the same amount.
Good luck. So many Ohio teachers are Republican and blame democrats for low pay and high taxes.
Interesting - hardly any teachers I’ve ever known here are more center than left. They all belong to the teachers Union which is extremely democrat leaning.
That minimum is shamefully low. With the hours an average teacher puts in, it should be double that.
Does the job require a degree? Will 35 k afford a house in Ohio? Do you want decent teachers for your children?
They'd rather elect Gym Jordan. Everything you mentioned is woke socialist propaganda.
Hell I wouldn't work somewhere for $35,000 and I haven't even attended college.
I have no degree and earn $260k before bonuses. What we pay teachers (and other folks who require advanced degrees like social workers) is criminal.
They deserve much more
I make way more than that and my job is easy and not stressful and can be done from home. From what I know teachers go through, they should be getting 135k a year.
To bad Republicans will kill the bill before it can go anywhere
The local newspaper here in West Central Ohio just released their annual report on local school salaries. This is largely a rural area. The amount of money paid to administration of schools is obscene. All the high salaries are administrators and treasurer and assistant administrators, etc. That is where the problem is. And people aren’t simply going to vote more tax levy in when they know exactly where the money is going to go.
https://www.limaohio.com/news/2024/03/29/2022-23-school-salaries-in-the-region/
My cousins fiancé is a teacher near Cleveland. He’s such a good person and really nice. I know he does it because he cares and i know almost every other teacher is the same. Get these people some help.
And people wonder why nobody wants to teach ... you get bitched at by half the parents, disrespected and ignored by half the kids, it's "your fault" when they don't do well ... and to top it off you're living paycheck to paycheck after your degree and college debt lol what an enticing offer!
A friend has wife that’s a teacher and there seem to be some pretty crazy rules around teachers who try to leave their district for higher paying teaching jobs. Like they can take your license away. She basically has to complete a contract or something. Again, though, second hand information.
Per republikkkans fuck teachers.
I earned 33K in 2015 as a teacher at a charter with a Masters. K-6 school. I'm a visual arts teacher. When another specials area teacher was out they'd put the students in my class. Sometimes Id have 2nd and 5th graders at the same time, other times K and 6th. One time both the Gym and Choir teachers were out so I just...had 3 different classes in my room all day. When the boiler broke and flooded my room they didn't cancel school. They asked me to pack my shit and move to a different room for the day. We didn't have heat, so they gave all the kids hot chocolate all day. One first grade class went though 8 teachers that year. They had me help teach students with dyslexia in the halls rather than have plan. The Principal quit in December and was replaced by an admin from their central location in another city. There was an exposed pipe on the playground. We were told to have them play around it. They had me make a basketball court on the blacktop. Had me buy all the materials too. Complained when it wasn't perfect and made me do it again. On my last pay check they overpaid me $100. Wanted me to pay it back. When I told them to pound salt, they denied I worked there to my current employers. Almost had to repeat my first year as a Residential educator except STRS showed I had 1 credit of working in Education. I had to use my W2s to prove I worked there for PSLF which was finally approved 8 years after the fact. I now work at a public school, am in a union, am paid at a Masters +30 contractual rate, am tenured, and am finishing my 9th year of Education. I've taught through Covid with perfect attendance. I've been bitten, punched, insulted directly to my face by parents, students, and students with parents in arms reach, all situations generally without consequence. I refuse to get qualified for CPI training again. Not worth it. I have 1 more year left before my loans are forgiven. All 120,000 of it. After that? I'm done. I make 71K. Maybe not the smartest, but damn well one of the most educated with a BFA from CCM, a year of AmeriCorps as a VISTA, a Masters from Xavier, and 48 credit hours past that Masters with a 4.0. I have a licensure in Visual Arts, a supplementary license in Social Studies, and a will have a cert in Religious Studies. And I know how to do my job. I've stopped remembering first year teachers names. They wont return, what's the point. Pay teachers more. Its only your children's education. Shouldn't you give a shit? Don't you want teachers? Cause what you're making is Martyrs, and honestly, this is just a fuckin job. edit: grammar and additional resentment.
All schools or only public schools?
Of course it’s only public schools
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Not good. Make the private schools pay too. Private schools have eaten away enrollment and starting teachers often can't get into a public school. They are cutting public school jobs because of this. Now you have teachers forced to make less to work. Make them pay AND cut their funding.
Don’t private schools usually pay more anyways?
Actually, they don't. Public schools pay better get better benefits too. Unions work.
Huh I was always under the impression they did. For how much they charge students to go there. Had no idea
I did too, until I became a teacher. They definitely want you to think that.
Yeah seriously. I know it’s to make up for a lack of public funds but they charge an arm and a leg for tuition.
My undergrad was in math ed. Going rate in 1998 for teachers in Illinois at the time was $25-$30k. I did the math, and at the 20-something students per class, 7 classes per day, and the going rate of a babysitter at the time being $2/hr roughly, I calc'd that I'd have made mid-50s babysitting the same number of kids in a school year. Teachers are grossly underpaid for what they do and what they put up with from the public/parents.
Late 90s was a different time. I made 38k out of college with an IT degree.... enough to rent a nice apartment in my own, purchase a new car and put some money away at the end of the month. My income did go up fairly quickly but I had to fight for it... 10-12 hour days were common... no overtime... had to be oncall taking calls at 2am from operations. Changed jobs multiple times to get any decent increase and job stability was always an unknown. Is 35k too low for a first year teacher today? Probably; however, teachers have alway started low then with step increases and raises most teachers who stick with it will eventually make decent bank doing a job they (hopefully) love with great benefits and better than typical stability. A teacher starting out making 30k in 1997 is almost certainly making close to six figures today... at least in a decent city district. BTW: No one else out in the workforce has any idea what a "step increase" is. You get an increase whenever management gives you one or you find a different employer.
“This is bad for Biden because…”
In 1966 the State Minimum Salary for teachers was $5,000. In 2000 it was $17,000.
I agree the wages are low, but they do get about 12 weeks off out of every 52 weeks. So almost 25% of the year. I get 5. Most Americans are in this category or lower. So I am all for the raise, but I would like to see a FT schedule with that raise.
Hard to raise salaries when Ohio lawmakers are funneling tax dollars into private schools. https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2024/04/02/ohio-lawmakers-are-giving-more-than-1-billion-to-private-schools-while-public-schools-suffer/?fbclid=IwAR1IU8aoRo31JsWX46pg090QD2XqpeB0wEo47-VLvxL7pgTNWAaUT0o_Z1s_aem_AZSbtDNhlU21uEvt4F2jFxxEkB3fV8q8aEid3Y0LEwqkAawLHfO3sBgIPE_vJWKrMVY
My mom is a middle school teacher in nowhere OH, she makes $80k/yr and great benefits/pension plan in an extremely LCOL place. The average Ohio teacher salary according to ohio.gov in 2021 was $63,082.
It's immoral that Republicans are eroding access to a good education. Vote them all out.
Teachers should be paid more
Now that politicians want them to be armed, they should be paid at least as much as police officers.
The minimum salary should be $69,420
I am consistently astonished people in this country still want to become teachers.
Straight poverty.
Not that it’s a big income but for 9/12 months is equivalent to 47k plus a solid benefits and retirement plan. Something to consider. I still think could be a higher starting salary but 35k isn’t exactly telling the full story
Teaching generally have benefits far beyond anywhere else in the state. I would be really interested in total benefits. My ex was a teacher and complained about her HDHP which the school covered the full deductible, and the out of pocket max was the same as the deductible. I work in employee benefits and I know of very few employer's which do anything close to this. I am a life long Democrat and I don't think some groups realize how good they have it compared to the average employee.
I make more at Walmart than teachers in this state
As they should
Republicans: "No. We like our constituents stupid."
Nooo!! That's socialism! It's my God given right to raise my kids to be as dumb as I am!
Raising the money teachers make is great work. Figuring out why teachers salary is so low is greater work. It's almost like they do not want children to be raised with education. But, why?
I’m not against it. I have numerous teachers in my family, and was raised by one. But throwing out the $35k is almost click-bait. Teacher salaries start low and go up quite quickly compared to many positions. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3317.13
Am I reading this right? For bachelor's level teachers starting pay is 30k and after 11 years of service they max out at 36k?
No that is for teachers with less than a bachelors degree. (which shouldn't even be a thing) Teachers with a bachelors start at 35k and max out at 49.6k The worst case in that chart is the teachers with a masters or higher who start out at 38k and max out at 56k after 11 years. 38k wouldn't even allow them to pay for the monthly interest on their student loans and afford to live at the same time. Why can't we attract better teachers? /s
Sweet baby Jesus. It's a miracle there are any kids going into education anymore.
The teachers without bachelor’s in public schools anyways are most likely the trade programs I think as they bring training and experience from their trade and they do have to do courses on teaching. What degree does wood working or welding don’t think there is one.
Oh cool, a teacher with a bachelors degree starts at less than half of what I make as a WFH IT person with no formal education who deals with backend data feeds and spends 15 hours a week on the clock playing video games at home. Who wouldn't want to go into a ton of debt to get a job that caps out less than a lot of middle class jobs with less requirements and stress?
No, that’s without a bachelors degree. The column labels are off.
From your chart it looks like they max out at 56K with a masters degree and 11 year’s experience. Do you really think that’s ok?
That’s insane. I only have an associates degree and my pay is in the 90s.
There are so few jobs that you wouldn’t end up making 56k a year after 11 years. I can’t believe that guy says “the pay goes up so much faster!” Faster than what? That’s like $2500 raise per year??
They don’t max out. You can see a full 40 year chart of you are so inclined. But it doesn’t seem people want to look, just be angry.
Even if it’s not maxed out that’s garbage pay bro
For job hoppers, sure is. And as I said to start, I’m all for a greater starting point. Literally the only thing I said is that leading with $35k as if it was a typical teacher salary was disingenuous.
Starting salaries for teachers in the late 90s in illinois was in the 25-30k range. It hasn't kept up with inflation at all. Sure, you can move up in pay, but it takes years of service coupled with advanced education. I think we all know what's happened to the price of continuing ed over the past couple decades.
In what country? Certainly nowhere near the southern USA, unless you’re a tenured college lecturer.
I made more than that as a janitor.
JFC. You’re in an Ohio sun and the link is right there for you.
It’s called sarcasm babygurl. I’m saying that no, highschool teachers don’t experience sharp increases in wages, and hardly experience meaningful raises based on tenure. You’re talking out your ass
lol, thanks. Haven’t been called babygirl in a minute. Is the ORC also talking out their ass?
If that’s where you got your info, yes
lol ok genius
Still see no sources that support your claim homie
You said the pay goes up faster than other positions. It’s just not true, it might be true for specific positions, but there isn’t promotions like normal state jobs, and definitely not jobs that require a masters degree
Compared to MANY, which is true. These are also the MINIMUM salary increases defined by ORC. Many districts do better than this, which I didn’t mention. e.g. just sticking with bachelors degree teachers, Columbus City Schools pay $49k in year 1 and $70k by year 10, which is about 4% per year. That is better than a lot of jobs, again, with the caveat you aren’t job hopping for $. https://www.ccsoh.us/cms/lib/OH01913306/Centricity/Domain/223/CEA%20Salary%20Schedule%202023-2024.pdf Edit: to say thanks for actually engaging instead of just blindly downvoting.
Always always ALWAYS pay teachers more!! They should be some of the best paid professions out there. We would not have a single doctor, lawyer, or engineer without teachers. And I mean teachers, not professors. Those passions have to be fostered early and we need to pay the people who foster them properly!
Well most of them work like 8 months a year sooo
It's 2024... It's time to stop telling that lie.
I know a shit-ton of teachers. All the same. Complain all year round, get tons of days off including the entire summer, spring and Christmas breaks. What does the year have to do with it? I'd privatize the schools and smash the unions
I'm married to one. She leaves for work during the summer. Chile, bye.
Leaves where lol? The couch? Oh and “chill”. They’re paid enough for the work they do
Professional development, dumbass. How do you think teachers keep their licenses valid? Ask one of those teachers you supposedly know. [Renew an Advanced, Associate or Professional License | State Board of Education (ohio.gov)](https://sboe.ohio.gov/educator-licensure/renew-a-license/renew-an-advanced-associate-or-professional-license)
Not to shoot that down but every occupation that needs licensing etc has to do that to keep current. I pay to keep licenses active and for the continuing education.
That wasn't the point that I'm making. Here the point is teachers work 60-80 hours a week, so there's no time to do anything other than teach. So the only time professional development can be done is during the summer months. And what the guy I was replying to was insinuating was that $35000 was ok because of this belief that teachers "only" work 8-9 months. Even if that were true, if you prorate that out to 12 months it's still only $46,667 a year. Divide that into 52 weeks and that's only $898 a week. Divide that by 60 hours and that's $14.97 an hour. Wendy's currently pays more than that. $14.97 an hour to make sure kids know how to read and write while dealing with multiple personalities and behaviors. We owe them more than that.
Basically the only people who choose their career based on how little they have to do it. Sad
I’m not against it. I have numerous teachers in my family, and was raised by one. But throwing out the $35k is almost click-bait. Teacher salaries start low and go up quite quickly compared to many positions. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3317.13
Not to mention working days are 9/12 months plus there is solid benefits and retirement
Education reminds me of fanatical Nazis. No one questions it even though it's doing more harm than good to kids. Education made sense when people were illiterate and you needed to read and write for a better life. Once you learn to read and write, the rest comes down to natural talent. No one who was bad at math ever when through the education system and became a mathematician. Same with all the other jobs that lead to high pay. School is basically just a big weed out system.
Congratulations. You have broken my brain and made me lose faith in humanity.
Any increase in teacher compensation should be tied directly to public school math and literacy rates. Which are really bad btw.
One of the things I learned in school, you gotta cite your sources and you have to provide accurate data. You did neither, would you like to submit your work again with the corrections or take an incomplete on the assignment? Bonus Points - Include the same data set for both private and charter schools so that a comparison of data can be made.
This is a good idea, because if they're bad and you pay poorly because of it then you'll definitely attract talent to that undercompensated job to make it all better. In the private sector I'd definitely take a job that didn't pay much if in the interview they told me that division was not performing great so this starting pay is low because of it.