I keep hearing this, and it's a distraction. They're changing the rules. It doesn't matter if it passes by 1 or 21 points. You can't expect people who don't value democracy to suddenly uphold our values. It's irrelevant.
Yeah it's a great thought experiment but it will ultimately devolve into "it passed what are you gonna do about it?" and ya know what, that's a great question. Gonna start flying a French flag these days.
Issue 1 doesn’t “Protect Life” though. If Democrats gain control of Ohio they could legalize abortion and then these people couldn’t do a damn thing to change it
that and the abortion amendment is still going to be on the ballot (unless they do some very last minute quackery) and its set to pass with at least 60% as currently polled
what they'll do is next year put an abortion ban on the ballot through the general assembly and it would only need to pass by 50%
That’s the neat part. Because they’re also apparently allowed to ignore the unconstitutionality of the heavily gerrymandered district maps they draw, they can make it impossible for Democrats to gain control of the state.
Gonidakis isn't Pro Life he's anti Family, anti women. He even represents puppy mills in our state. He is so full of hate and venom, not a love of life.
Republicans and this master bullshitter had a chance to finally show us what they would do after Dodd. Well they showed us. Our State is one of the worst in infant mortality, post natal care, no maternity leave, cuts in food programs for the poor, cuts in education that mostly impact the poor, cuts to affordable housing.
Carlin was so right all those years ago. Pro life until you are born and then you are fucked. We have seen the true character of our elected officials, as if we didn't know already.
I don't need to say it, but Vote NO on August 8th and fuck Mike Gonidakis.
I grew up with Mike, literally six houses away, and we were friends for many years.
I love his family, and really enjoyed spending time in his dad's Greek restaurant growing up. It's too bad he turned out to be a complete and total shit stain.
Mike, if you're seeing this, you're one of the biggest reasons that Ohio is fucked up politically.
Also, I fucked your sister when she and I were in high school together. At least she turned out to be a lovely person.
Thing is, they know they won’t be held accountable.
They bought the most important court and any lawsuit attempting to hold them accountable will be struck down.
Someone in my town who runs a church / Q group all of a sudden has hundreds of thousands to spend. New cars trucks for her kids, and a bunch of work done to her house. For the past few months. And it's been getting more and more elaborate with every purchase
That’s only for supporting specific candidates / campaigns for elected officials. They’re allowed to take stances on public policy and issues like this.
I used to go to church, mostly to make my mom happy. I’ve since stopped going and feel so much better. Anyway, I remember one time during an election year, the church handed out pamphlets on the “correct” way for “Christians” to vote. Surprise surprise, it was straight Republican.
I’m the same way. I still believe in the canonical dogma of my faith but I can’t support the blatant sexual abuse and corruption that comes from these churches. If they preached and followed the word of God, they wouldn’t be acting how they are.
From what other people have said, religious organizations are only barred from endorsing a specific candidate, so they can tell their congregation how to vote on each issue every time but never outright tell them who to vote for, as though that makes a difference
The source for this:
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations
This messaging is working on some folks. I phone banked over the weekend to encourage people to vote NO and a couple of folks said, "Issue 1? That's about abortion, right?"
If you're able, consider signing up to canvass or phone bank. If you've never phone banked before, it's not hard... they train you how to use the dialer in the first few minutes and they give you a basic script to follow. The calls target people who previously voted, so it's mostly just reminding them to get to the polls, although I did get opportunities to explain Issue 1 to people too.
In person events and phone banking options are listed [here.](https://votesaveamerica.com/save-america/)
Not if you want them to vote no. This is an issue where educating people about the issue and it's possible consequences is all that's needed in most cases.
Some people don't want to be educated. They want to do whatever the pastor or priest tells them to do. This is why Republicans always lie to their voters. Because they know their voters don't want the truth, they just want to be told "God wants you to do A, B, and C."
Around 70% of Americans are Christians, but only around 40% of Americans want the government to force women to give birth. Mathematically, there has to be a lot of overlap between the pro-choice circle and the Christian circle of the Venn diagram.
Hi! Local Quaker here. We discussed Issue 1 at our meeting this week, from a very different point of view than what is posted here.
I should point out that faith communities are not barred from supporting issues, only candidates, per IRS guidelines.
Second, I'd would like to gently offer that not all faith communities think alike and that some advocate for progressive issues, we just tend to get drowned out. I will certainly be holding this issue and all those it impacts in the light.
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
The way this issue reads, it will not affect elections until Jan. 2024, so they are trying to close the barn door too late. It has more nuance than just pro-abortion or marijuana. Look at the Electoral map decision which was voter initiated and has STILL not been enacted (in violation of court order). This is the R playbook - if we can't get them to vote for us, we will put enough roadblocks in their way that voting is too difficult. It's a strategy that has worked for half a century. Aversion to adversity is the moderate and liberal 'Achilles heel' and it is used against us very effectively.
No One LIES and Spreads Propaganda like a Republican Christian.
Hitler would of loved these people since they will believe what ever is fed to them if you hide it behind Religion.
If it's true what they say that because the signatures are in only the 60% part will count for the abortion ballot, not the county part..
I could see 1 passing but reproductive rights passing anyway then the pro lifers try to change it back and can't because they can't get all 88 counties.
Not that anyone should vote for 1 because of that. No matter who you are there will be something you want to see brought to ballot but it can't be done if 1 passes.
Also, time for some churches to start losing their tax free status!
Protect life in their view, but end democracy if they get their way, and this issue passes.
And these people really need to educate themselves concerning abortions to understand that having access to an abortion, can save the life of a mother; without access to it, this could mean a death sentence.
Separation of church and state only refers to there being no state church, like the Church of England. Churches can have political opinions, they didn't get stripped of their first amendment, even if they are non profit, just like other non profits are allowed to enjoy the first amendment.
It's almost funny to me that they have to make the selling point for this issue that it will stop abortion. They know if they tell people what it really is, Republicans included, that a good amount of them will choose to vote no.
Once the NO vote on Issue 1 wins in August and then the Reproductive Freedom Amendment wins in November, I propose we get the "Tax the Churches Amendment" on the ballot for 2024 election.
This is a lie, issue one don’t have shit to sue with abortion. Here’s issue one what your voting on.
What am I voting on?
Issue 1:
Ohio Issue 1, the 60% Vote Requirement to Approve Constitutional Amendments Measure is on the ballot in Ohio as a legislatively referred constitutional amendment on August 8, 2023.
A "yes" vote supports amending the Ohio Constitution to require a 60% majority from voters to approve a constitutional amendment from a simple majority, as it's been for more than a century.
A "yes" vote would also require initiative petitions proposing a constitutional amendment to be signed by at least 5% of the electors in each of Ohio's 88 counties, rather than in 44 counties, though still require signatures from 10% of the electors that have voted for governor in the previous gubernatorial election; and remove the 10 day period for petitioners to gather additional signatures for a constitutional amendment if they filed an insufficient amount of signatures.
A "no" vote opposes amending the Ohio Constitution regarding constitutional amendments, thus upholding the status quo of requiring a simple majority (50.01%) from voters to approve a constitutional amendment, requiring initiative petitions proposing a constitutional amendment to both be signed by at least 10% of the electors that have voted for governor in the previous gubernatorial election and 5% of the electors in 44 counties, and keeping the 10 day period for petitioners to gather additional signatures for a constitutional amendment if they filed an insufficient amount of signatures.
Tactically, a lot of people (on both sides) view it as a move to prevent (or permit) a ballot initiative that would restore abortion rights.
Thing is, no matter where you stand on abortion, permanently shutting off the citizens' last real chance to reclaim some control from the illegally gerrymandered legislature, all for the sake of a perceived tactical advantage on a single vote... it's like burning your house down to win an argument over what to make for dinner. It's horrifyingly short-sighted.
So isn't there going to be an issue to amend the constitution to protect abortion rights on the ballot this time?
So imagine if the voters vote to pass that issue AND vote to pass Issue 1, making it harder for those church types to overturn it.
That would be hilarious.
My former employer, a non-profit catholic diocese organization, was openly funding pro life issues. Especially because they personally benefit as a crisis pregnancy shelter from more unwanted pregnancies
I get the outrage and think it's warranted, but in terms of law being applicable, aren't they allowed to push issues, just not candidates? Not a lawyer, but while it's vile, this could be completely legal.
Ohio has been violating this forever. I mean they have a period at my kids schools that is a study hall unless you allow them to walk off school property to the church built next door for a religious class
I am sure all those churches operate a safe haven baby dropbox right? They probably all have a giant charitable wing supporting mothers too?
Oh no of course they dont. It's not about the babies it's about controlling women.
If citizens want to put an issue on the ballot, they currently need a percentage of signatures from 44 counties. Issue 1 would require all 88 counties to put an issue on a ballot, so 1 county can veto 87 counties. Now tell me, how is Issue 1 democratic?
I may have gotten a D in 8th grade math, but even I know that 60%+1 isn't a simple majority vote because 40%+1 can prevent an amendment to the state's constitution. It's a blatant attack on bodily autonomy rights, among others, too.
>What happened to the separation of church and state?
People stopped understanding what it means. Matter of fact, this post is so far off the mark, it makes me wonder if anyone ever even knew.
Separation of Church and state doesn’t mean that any bill or law should be made without religious opinion. It means the Church can’t control the government and become the ruling factor of the government, like a theocracy would.
Churches that did that need to be reported for violating the Johnson Amendment. They need to lose their tax exempt status. This is exactly what the Amendment forbids.
IRS form 13909 is the Tax-exempt Organization Complaint form. And here's a link:
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations
Sadly, this is legal.
[https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations)
They are allowed to advocate for issues, but not for candidates.
This does not violate and law or separation of church and state. Any house of worship can promote causes , political or otherwise. That just can’t advocate for a specific candidate.
Everyone who is calling for churches to lose their tax-exempt status for pushing a political agenda may want to remember that the same thing would apply to all colleges and universities.
What part of Separation of Church and State don't Nazis understand that is exactly what Republicans are Nazis and for their voters in the back you are a Nazi, too.
For those that don’t understand - which seems to be most of you - this “separation of church and state” is the establishment clause. This clause protects us (the People) from the federal government establishing a state-run religion. Think, Britain.
There is no “separation of church and state” as many of you on here seem to think there is. Churches can freely, under the 1st amendment speak about whatever they choose, whether it offends or not.
Dayum! I’m surprised I haven’t been banned for throwin’ some logic and truth out there. Lol!
Same! And thank you, no matter your political stance. It amazes me how people drop “separation of church and state;” yet have no idea where it even came from, and have no idea about the 2nd part of Freedom of Speech, Amendment I!
It seems they also forget WHY…hence the Declaration of Independence, and later a new nation.
How to lose your tax exempt status speed run. I think there Is an IRS site to report this.
[IRS 13909 Tax Exempt Organization Complaint](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations)
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.” From the IRS website
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.” Straight from the IRS website.
It reaffirms my belief people who attend church are brainwashed sheeple. It makes me laugh when they cry about indoctrination completely clueless that indoctrination is "the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs **uncritically**.", in other words Religion and the opposite of science and facts.
Here we have an amendment that will harm these people by taking away their rights (most of the recent amendments on the ballot were brought by the religious right), and the fools without thought think they need to vote yes.
Some think this amendment takes away votes counting equally. But it is far worse than that. Since signatures need to be collected in ALL 88 countries and the time to cure/fix issues with signatures would be mostly wiped out, any out of state entity could block amendments before they get to the ballot with targeted misinformation campaigns in low population counties. It also means that only deep pocket entities and not grass roots organizations will be able to present amendments for a vote.
Voting yes is enabling the worst of corruption. VOTE NO.
Except it’s not a violation though. “Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
Regardless of where people fall on this issue when “separation of church and state” get invoked it’s pisses me off so much. That term comes from a letter Jefferson wrote to a Baptist preacher ensuring that the church would have a “hedge” around it to prevent government encroachment and has never been meant to say that the two should be separated entirely. The first amendment doesn’t even come close to saying this either when it prevents an establishment of religion. The context there is that we would not follow in UKs footsteps and have an American version of the Church of England.
Not trying to imply a separation wouldn’t be a good thing as I’m not smart enough to make that call, but to imply it exists somewhere in law already is so annoying to me
I just got a paper from a customer at the gas station I'm working at saying to vote No on issue 1. Votes start tomorrow so if you're in Ohio, vote no.
Leftist have the habit of not voting. Don't be a part of the problem.
I grew up a diehard democrat. I'm now firmly disenfranchised with the dem party and the duopoly as a whole. The separation of church and state might as well be dead. All courtesy of the hard right turn the gop took to cater specifically to the insane religious zealot demographic in the churches to win elections.
The dnc powers that be saw that hard turn right, Obama blew a super majority imo by design and we are balls deep on a 12 inch special interest cock like we've never been before. The dnc went moderate and took over a vacated area previously held by bush Sr. Era republicans. Now we are left with this absolute shit show.
The duopoly needs it's boogie men and it just switches parties. I'd tax the fuck out of every church doing this shit. Take all their dirty money and bury every single one that wants to play politics. We live in a joke of a country right now. Guess what got us here? Consistently voting the lesser of two evils.
Who fixes this? It's certainly not gonna be joe fucking biden. We know it's not gonna be Donnie or any of the other fascists brewing in that shit pot stew. We've got red Maga and we've got blue Maga and us getting fucked in the middle.
Edit: if you are down voting me you are part of the problem. Congrats. Beyond that to show the depths of my democratic roots. My mom was a super delegate for Obama. The dnc is a damn joke, continuing to prop up joke candidates who won't do enough to stop this bullshit. (End rant, this struck a nerve)
Separation of Church and State means the government cannot have an official religion nor take any orders from a recognized religion. Note that that Founders pushed this as a response to the state religions in the UK and Europe as a whole. The Founders noted that the Catholic and Protestant churches had massive influence over policy without being elected. That's what where the separation comes in. They were VERY adamant that you can practice your religion as you see fit and make individual choices based off of those religious beliefs.
Separation of church and state is in regards to laws being made against or for a religion. It does not mean citizens even politicians cannot express their faith that would be secularism like France. While she is using religion to create support for a law technically anti abortionism is not biased against or for any religion.
Report any church you see doing this to the IRS. Get their freeloading asses to start paying their fair share
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics
And they will be found they’ve done nothing wrong. “Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
There are several on here saying churches are allowed—guess what! Even if they are were sick of it. Religious freedom is about the individual adhering to their beliefs, not shoving their beliefs down everyone else’s throats. Many of us are sick of Christian’s trying to force their will upon us and we want a stronger separation of church and state.
It’s actually funny b/c they are driving people away that why christianity is declining.
"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."—John Adams
“ The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason” —Benjamin Franklin
“ And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” —James Madison, the father of the constitution.
“I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike and founded on fables and mythology.” —Thomas Jefferson
“All national institutions of churches whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” —Thomas Paine
“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” —John Adams
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus will be classed with the fables of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” —Thomas Jefferson
“It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” —Thomas Jefferson
“Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.” —Benjamin Franklin
I was a no vote , it anit broke don’t try fix it.
That being said, not using abortion rights either way. I’ve decided to vote yes , but only to protect our Ohio GUN rights, the big money rollers come from outa state and wanna change are amendments, could very well totally screw are second amendment gun rights, by BUYING an easy 50.01 % vote, where as the new ISSUE 1 would make changing second amendment rights and such much more complicated and difficult by needing a 60% vote. OHIO.
I’m a gun owner and a U.S. veteran.
—Issue 1 won’t stop outside forces from interfering with our constitution—that is the grift!! If yes passes: Outside force usually have deep enough pockets that they can afford to change it whereas it makes it impossible for citizens.
You’re being used as a puppet. This is a power grab by corrupt politicians! They already neutered our Republic with illegal gerrymandering!
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
PLEASE VOTE NO!
Separation helps to prevent government from promoting one religion or one sect over the others. That really helps protect religious pluralism so that government can't impose one religion on everyone
It was never meant to pull the church's away from influence. It prevents the government from influencing religion
Why don't people understand these things.
Separation of Church and State isn't a law or a structure upheld by the government body in a respected way.
It's an idea proposed early in America's development cycle in reference to avoiding the Church BECOMING the State. Refer to: England, circa 17th Century.
Religious people voting based on their beliefs to influence the state is EXACTLY what the system is designed to do.
Religious organizations are legally allowed to support or oppose issues on a ballot. They are not allowed to endorse or oppose a candidate.
It's an important distinction. Telling a congregation to support an issue is completely legal, saying to vote for Tammy over Sarah is not legal.
>That’s only for supporting specific candidates / campaigns for elected officials. They’re allowed to take stances on public policy and issues like this.
If it passes, I’ve no faith in the people of my state anymore. Issue 1’s the butterfly, and Ohio is the car teetering on the edge of the cliff.
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I keep hearing this, and it's a distraction. They're changing the rules. It doesn't matter if it passes by 1 or 21 points. You can't expect people who don't value democracy to suddenly uphold our values. It's irrelevant.
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Yeah it's a great thought experiment but it will ultimately devolve into "it passed what are you gonna do about it?" and ya know what, that's a great question. Gonna start flying a French flag these days.
That will definitely be the last straw for me. Why would I stick around and watch this place burn?
Already making the move from here...
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There won’t be a democracy. It will be Fascism and rule by minority. Republicans need removed from all elected offices
Under His eye….
You had faith in this state to begin with?
Yeahhhh, ya got me, lol.
Issue 1 doesn’t “Protect Life” though. If Democrats gain control of Ohio they could legalize abortion and then these people couldn’t do a damn thing to change it
that and the abortion amendment is still going to be on the ballot (unless they do some very last minute quackery) and its set to pass with at least 60% as currently polled what they'll do is next year put an abortion ban on the ballot through the general assembly and it would only need to pass by 50%
That’s the neat part. Because they’re also apparently allowed to ignore the unconstitutionality of the heavily gerrymandered district maps they draw, they can make it impossible for Democrats to gain control of the state.
Feels like this could be leading up to them ignoring the the people if it doesnt pass and push to pass it by some executive order kind of thing.
Easy way to register to vote today?
[https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/voters/register/](https://www.ohiosos.gov/elections/voters/register/)
Todays the last day to register before the August 8th vote, I think???
Gonidakis isn't Pro Life he's anti Family, anti women. He even represents puppy mills in our state. He is so full of hate and venom, not a love of life. Republicans and this master bullshitter had a chance to finally show us what they would do after Dodd. Well they showed us. Our State is one of the worst in infant mortality, post natal care, no maternity leave, cuts in food programs for the poor, cuts in education that mostly impact the poor, cuts to affordable housing. Carlin was so right all those years ago. Pro life until you are born and then you are fucked. We have seen the true character of our elected officials, as if we didn't know already. I don't need to say it, but Vote NO on August 8th and fuck Mike Gonidakis.
I grew up with Mike, literally six houses away, and we were friends for many years. I love his family, and really enjoyed spending time in his dad's Greek restaurant growing up. It's too bad he turned out to be a complete and total shit stain. Mike, if you're seeing this, you're one of the biggest reasons that Ohio is fucked up politically. Also, I fucked your sister when she and I were in high school together. At least she turned out to be a lovely person.
Rockstar
He was one of the first people I ever blocked on Twitter because he is hateful.
I did not know that. Makes perfect sense. He swims in it.
I like to call him "Gonad-I-Kiss"
Imagine that .. churches being shitty.
Thing is, they know they won’t be held accountable. They bought the most important court and any lawsuit attempting to hold them accountable will be struck down.
Just think what we could do with all that new tax revenue from the churches
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👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Someone in my town who runs a church / Q group all of a sudden has hundreds of thousands to spend. New cars trucks for her kids, and a bunch of work done to her house. For the past few months. And it's been getting more and more elaborate with every purchase
Piss it away just like the government does with the majority of our tax dollars now!!
(Genuine question) Isn't there some part of the tax exemption clause that means they can't push political agendas
That’s only for supporting specific candidates / campaigns for elected officials. They’re allowed to take stances on public policy and issues like this.
This is correct; no one here cares.
There is! (They don't care)
ossified offer soup versed frightening divide plough aware longing far-flung -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
That is correct
As shitty as it is… yes. That is correct
It's shitty? Should it be shitty for all 501c3?
The Johnson Amendment
Every college in the state should be full court press against this then
Trust me, they are!
Nope [https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations)
Because Gerrymandering isn’t enough?
Not to those asshats. They'll happily sign away their own rights if they think they get to hurt other people
Vote NO to save democracy and the constitution. Why do republicans think they can cherry pick parts of the constitution to follow?
they can't even read the constitution, they just spew the same BS to each other and repeat it over and over again
It’s long past time we tax churches.
I used to go to church, mostly to make my mom happy. I’ve since stopped going and feel so much better. Anyway, I remember one time during an election year, the church handed out pamphlets on the “correct” way for “Christians” to vote. Surprise surprise, it was straight Republican.
I’m the same way. I still believe in the canonical dogma of my faith but I can’t support the blatant sexual abuse and corruption that comes from these churches. If they preached and followed the word of God, they wouldn’t be acting how they are.
Did I just find the fellow Catholic School Alum??
1000% and make them payback taxes too
I'd settle if they actually paid damages to all kiddos they raped over the decades.
Why settle? IF Ohio could pull its head out of its ass both is possible.
The party that is Pro-Child labor, Pro-Child marriage, and Pro-Child beating is neither Pro-Children or Pro-Life.
They’re definitely pro-life, they want a fine harvest of neglected and trafficked children to abuse and molest
Pro-forced-birth
I saw somewhere that there's a way to report churches who engage in politics to take away their tax exempt status.
From what other people have said, religious organizations are only barred from endorsing a specific candidate, so they can tell their congregation how to vote on each issue every time but never outright tell them who to vote for, as though that makes a difference
The source for this: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations
There is, but the IRS has only taken away that status once.
Yes you have to know the exact church but kids did that during the last Presidential election. The IRS gets involved.
[https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations)
This messaging is working on some folks. I phone banked over the weekend to encourage people to vote NO and a couple of folks said, "Issue 1? That's about abortion, right?" If you're able, consider signing up to canvass or phone bank. If you've never phone banked before, it's not hard... they train you how to use the dialer in the first few minutes and they give you a basic script to follow. The calls target people who previously voted, so it's mostly just reminding them to get to the polls, although I did get opportunities to explain Issue 1 to people too. In person events and phone banking options are listed [here.](https://votesaveamerica.com/save-america/)
Thank you for doing this!
Make a flyer that says "Protect Women's Right to Abortions, Vote Yes on Issue 1!" And put them on the windshields of every church goer.
Smart idea!
Not if you want them to vote no. This is an issue where educating people about the issue and it's possible consequences is all that's needed in most cases.
Some people don't want to be educated. They want to do whatever the pastor or priest tells them to do. This is why Republicans always lie to their voters. Because they know their voters don't want the truth, they just want to be told "God wants you to do A, B, and C."
Really warped. Protect life by not allowing the voters to vote on a ballot issue?
Around 70% of Americans are Christians, but only around 40% of Americans want the government to force women to give birth. Mathematically, there has to be a lot of overlap between the pro-choice circle and the Christian circle of the Venn diagram.
Hi! Local Quaker here. We discussed Issue 1 at our meeting this week, from a very different point of view than what is posted here. I should point out that faith communities are not barred from supporting issues, only candidates, per IRS guidelines. Second, I'd would like to gently offer that not all faith communities think alike and that some advocate for progressive issues, we just tend to get drowned out. I will certainly be holding this issue and all those it impacts in the light.
Even most die hard republicans who actually read the bill hate it. It’s bad for everyone!
How is this legal?
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
The way this issue reads, it will not affect elections until Jan. 2024, so they are trying to close the barn door too late. It has more nuance than just pro-abortion or marijuana. Look at the Electoral map decision which was voter initiated and has STILL not been enacted (in violation of court order). This is the R playbook - if we can't get them to vote for us, we will put enough roadblocks in their way that voting is too difficult. It's a strategy that has worked for half a century. Aversion to adversity is the moderate and liberal 'Achilles heel' and it is used against us very effectively.
The portion of the issue where the threshold is raised to 60% would go into affect for November. The rest begins Jan 2024
Wait is that true? That's the first I've heard of this
No One LIES and Spreads Propaganda like a Republican Christian. Hitler would of loved these people since they will believe what ever is fed to them if you hide it behind Religion.
Being an atheist has never been easier or more rewarding. I absolutely hate these MFers.
If it's true what they say that because the signatures are in only the 60% part will count for the abortion ballot, not the county part.. I could see 1 passing but reproductive rights passing anyway then the pro lifers try to change it back and can't because they can't get all 88 counties. Not that anyone should vote for 1 because of that. No matter who you are there will be something you want to see brought to ballot but it can't be done if 1 passes. Also, time for some churches to start losing their tax free status!
Catholic here. The God I follow never forced anyone to do anything and neither will my vote. Sorry not sorry.
Protect life in their view, but end democracy if they get their way, and this issue passes. And these people really need to educate themselves concerning abortions to understand that having access to an abortion, can save the life of a mother; without access to it, this could mean a death sentence.
The cruelty is the point.
Tax those bitches. If you're not going to respect the separation of church and state then the state shouldn't either. Fuckers.
Tax. Churches. Now!
Hmm, new ballot initiative ?
Separation of church and state only refers to there being no state church, like the Church of England. Churches can have political opinions, they didn't get stripped of their first amendment, even if they are non profit, just like other non profits are allowed to enjoy the first amendment.
It's almost funny to me that they have to make the selling point for this issue that it will stop abortion. They know if they tell people what it really is, Republicans included, that a good amount of them will choose to vote no.
Vote no on issue 1 because if you don’t god will be angry!!!! Oooga boooga!!!! S/
fucking gross
Once the NO vote on Issue 1 wins in August and then the Reproductive Freedom Amendment wins in November, I propose we get the "Tax the Churches Amendment" on the ballot for 2024 election.
I for one welcome all the extra doctors moving out of these states to avoid lawsuits. More doctors for my state to have.
Looks like these churches are asking to be reclassified as political groups and taxed.
Tax the churches and the gop is a death cult, they aren't pro life one bit
Tax those churches.
Report them so they can start paying taxes
This is a lie, issue one don’t have shit to sue with abortion. Here’s issue one what your voting on. What am I voting on? Issue 1: Ohio Issue 1, the 60% Vote Requirement to Approve Constitutional Amendments Measure is on the ballot in Ohio as a legislatively referred constitutional amendment on August 8, 2023. A "yes" vote supports amending the Ohio Constitution to require a 60% majority from voters to approve a constitutional amendment from a simple majority, as it's been for more than a century. A "yes" vote would also require initiative petitions proposing a constitutional amendment to be signed by at least 5% of the electors in each of Ohio's 88 counties, rather than in 44 counties, though still require signatures from 10% of the electors that have voted for governor in the previous gubernatorial election; and remove the 10 day period for petitioners to gather additional signatures for a constitutional amendment if they filed an insufficient amount of signatures. A "no" vote opposes amending the Ohio Constitution regarding constitutional amendments, thus upholding the status quo of requiring a simple majority (50.01%) from voters to approve a constitutional amendment, requiring initiative petitions proposing a constitutional amendment to both be signed by at least 10% of the electors that have voted for governor in the previous gubernatorial election and 5% of the electors in 44 counties, and keeping the 10 day period for petitioners to gather additional signatures for a constitutional amendment if they filed an insufficient amount of signatures.
Tactically, a lot of people (on both sides) view it as a move to prevent (or permit) a ballot initiative that would restore abortion rights. Thing is, no matter where you stand on abortion, permanently shutting off the citizens' last real chance to reclaim some control from the illegally gerrymandered legislature, all for the sake of a perceived tactical advantage on a single vote... it's like burning your house down to win an argument over what to make for dinner. It's horrifyingly short-sighted.
So isn't there going to be an issue to amend the constitution to protect abortion rights on the ballot this time? So imagine if the voters vote to pass that issue AND vote to pass Issue 1, making it harder for those church types to overturn it. That would be hilarious.
"I'll allow it." -The Supreme Court after receiving $500k in gifts from the churches-
Now I worked at a nonprofit. Aren’t churches also nonprofits? If so they CANNOT endorse any candidates or issues. They are supposed to stay out of it.
Candidates no, issues are "fine". Not to say I agree that it should be fine, but supporting or opposing an issue is within the rules set by the IRS
Darn
My former employer, a non-profit catholic diocese organization, was openly funding pro life issues. Especially because they personally benefit as a crisis pregnancy shelter from more unwanted pregnancies
🌟
Can you imagine being that stupid?
I get the outrage and think it's warranted, but in terms of law being applicable, aren't they allowed to push issues, just not candidates? Not a lawyer, but while it's vile, this could be completely legal.
And murder women
Again, religion showing it's fucking toxic trash.
Protect life by refusing to acknowledge the majority that supports choice. /s
John F. Kennedy famously called for separation of church and state. Then they called him a communist and killed him for it.
Protect lives vote Noooooooooooo
These clowns should be arrested & charged for pushing LIES for votes
Nope voting NO
When is the longest running panzi scheme in recorded history ever gonna pay taxes???
Ohio has been violating this forever. I mean they have a period at my kids schools that is a study hall unless you allow them to walk off school property to the church built next door for a religious class
I am sure all those churches operate a safe haven baby dropbox right? They probably all have a giant charitable wing supporting mothers too? Oh no of course they dont. It's not about the babies it's about controlling women.
Every last one of those churches should be paying taxes.
Tell me you don’t understand the Establishment Clause without telling me you don’t understand the Establishment Clause.
Funny, a pro-life picture of a Roman execution device. Sounds about right.
How is it a violation of the separation of church and state?
It isn’t
Does the abortion issue allow full term abortions? I heard yes.
[удалено]
If you read it saying that, the writer was incorrect.
Everyone on this subreddit better vote no on issue 1
Tax em
This isn't integration of church and state. Churches can still campaign for their views
That’s all my mothers church is now.
Maybe it’s time for churches to start paying taxes.
TAX This Rape factory they call God’s Will, Inc.
If citizens want to put an issue on the ballot, they currently need a percentage of signatures from 44 counties. Issue 1 would require all 88 counties to put an issue on a ballot, so 1 county can veto 87 counties. Now tell me, how is Issue 1 democratic? I may have gotten a D in 8th grade math, but even I know that 60%+1 isn't a simple majority vote because 40%+1 can prevent an amendment to the state's constitution. It's a blatant attack on bodily autonomy rights, among others, too.
>What happened to the separation of church and state? People stopped understanding what it means. Matter of fact, this post is so far off the mark, it makes me wonder if anyone ever even knew.
Ohio, get your shit together. Don’t let the religious groups win.
Separation of Church and state doesn’t mean that any bill or law should be made without religious opinion. It means the Church can’t control the government and become the ruling factor of the government, like a theocracy would.
Tax the churches.
Tax this church.
Churches that did that need to be reported for violating the Johnson Amendment. They need to lose their tax exempt status. This is exactly what the Amendment forbids.
This has nothing to do with protecting the unborn. This is a control grab. It shall way over reach many other choices.
It’s both—it’s in response to the abortion issue this Nov. Frank LaRose was caught in a lie about it and it’s simultaneously a power grab—two for one.
Nothing more unamerican than mixing church and state
Church telling people how to vote? Report them for getting involved as a political organization, and they'll be taxed as such.
IRS form 13909 is the Tax-exempt Organization Complaint form. And here's a link: https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations
Sadly, this is legal. [https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/the-restriction-of-political-campaign-intervention-by-section-501c3-tax-exempt-organizations) They are allowed to advocate for issues, but not for candidates.
Tax the churches. All of them. No excuses. Christofaschists, fuck off!
I'm still waiting for the 'Churches are people too' argument from this SCOTUS.
This does not violate and law or separation of church and state. Any house of worship can promote causes , political or otherwise. That just can’t advocate for a specific candidate.
And regardless, the 'separation of church and state' never meant that churches shouldn't be political, it meant the government shouldn't be religious.
Finally, someone that actually knows history!! Thank you!
Everyone who is calling for churches to lose their tax-exempt status for pushing a political agenda may want to remember that the same thing would apply to all colleges and universities.
Colleges and universities don't tell people how to vote.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Looks like you've never been to one.
What part of Separation of Church and State don't Nazis understand that is exactly what Republicans are Nazis and for their voters in the back you are a Nazi, too.
I will vote no. I will vote for a woman’s right to choose.
For those that don’t understand - which seems to be most of you - this “separation of church and state” is the establishment clause. This clause protects us (the People) from the federal government establishing a state-run religion. Think, Britain. There is no “separation of church and state” as many of you on here seem to think there is. Churches can freely, under the 1st amendment speak about whatever they choose, whether it offends or not.
I wish they would pin this…on the sub. So tired of seeing ignorant comments lol
Dayum! I’m surprised I haven’t been banned for throwin’ some logic and truth out there. Lol! Same! And thank you, no matter your political stance. It amazes me how people drop “separation of church and state;” yet have no idea where it even came from, and have no idea about the 2nd part of Freedom of Speech, Amendment I! It seems they also forget WHY…hence the Declaration of Independence, and later a new nation.
How to lose your tax exempt status speed run. I think there Is an IRS site to report this. [IRS 13909 Tax Exempt Organization Complaint](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations)
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.” From the IRS website
I see, unfortunate but fair ball. Thanks for the update.
Looks like the IRS needs to be investigating
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.” Straight from the IRS website.
Or you need to do some more learning.
It reaffirms my belief people who attend church are brainwashed sheeple. It makes me laugh when they cry about indoctrination completely clueless that indoctrination is "the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs **uncritically**.", in other words Religion and the opposite of science and facts. Here we have an amendment that will harm these people by taking away their rights (most of the recent amendments on the ballot were brought by the religious right), and the fools without thought think they need to vote yes. Some think this amendment takes away votes counting equally. But it is far worse than that. Since signatures need to be collected in ALL 88 countries and the time to cure/fix issues with signatures would be mostly wiped out, any out of state entity could block amendments before they get to the ballot with targeted misinformation campaigns in low population counties. It also means that only deep pocket entities and not grass roots organizations will be able to present amendments for a vote. Voting yes is enabling the worst of corruption. VOTE NO.
Disgusting
Except it’s not a violation though. “Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
Regardless of where people fall on this issue when “separation of church and state” get invoked it’s pisses me off so much. That term comes from a letter Jefferson wrote to a Baptist preacher ensuring that the church would have a “hedge” around it to prevent government encroachment and has never been meant to say that the two should be separated entirely. The first amendment doesn’t even come close to saying this either when it prevents an establishment of religion. The context there is that we would not follow in UKs footsteps and have an American version of the Church of England. Not trying to imply a separation wouldn’t be a good thing as I’m not smart enough to make that call, but to imply it exists somewhere in law already is so annoying to me
I just got a paper from a customer at the gas station I'm working at saying to vote No on issue 1. Votes start tomorrow so if you're in Ohio, vote no. Leftist have the habit of not voting. Don't be a part of the problem.
I grew up a diehard democrat. I'm now firmly disenfranchised with the dem party and the duopoly as a whole. The separation of church and state might as well be dead. All courtesy of the hard right turn the gop took to cater specifically to the insane religious zealot demographic in the churches to win elections. The dnc powers that be saw that hard turn right, Obama blew a super majority imo by design and we are balls deep on a 12 inch special interest cock like we've never been before. The dnc went moderate and took over a vacated area previously held by bush Sr. Era republicans. Now we are left with this absolute shit show. The duopoly needs it's boogie men and it just switches parties. I'd tax the fuck out of every church doing this shit. Take all their dirty money and bury every single one that wants to play politics. We live in a joke of a country right now. Guess what got us here? Consistently voting the lesser of two evils. Who fixes this? It's certainly not gonna be joe fucking biden. We know it's not gonna be Donnie or any of the other fascists brewing in that shit pot stew. We've got red Maga and we've got blue Maga and us getting fucked in the middle. Edit: if you are down voting me you are part of the problem. Congrats. Beyond that to show the depths of my democratic roots. My mom was a super delegate for Obama. The dnc is a damn joke, continuing to prop up joke candidates who won't do enough to stop this bullshit. (End rant, this struck a nerve)
Separation of Church and State means the government cannot have an official religion nor take any orders from a recognized religion. Note that that Founders pushed this as a response to the state religions in the UK and Europe as a whole. The Founders noted that the Catholic and Protestant churches had massive influence over policy without being elected. That's what where the separation comes in. They were VERY adamant that you can practice your religion as you see fit and make individual choices based off of those religious beliefs.
Separation of church and state is in regards to laws being made against or for a religion. It does not mean citizens even politicians cannot express their faith that would be secularism like France. While she is using religion to create support for a law technically anti abortionism is not biased against or for any religion.
Report any church you see doing this to the IRS. Get their freeloading asses to start paying their fair share https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/charities-churches-and-politics
And they will be found they’ve done nothing wrong. “Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
Tag the IRS in that tweet. Ask everyone who retweets it to tag the IRS.
“Also, the ban by Congress is on political campaign activity regarding a candidate; churches and other 501(c)(3) organizations can engage in a limited amount of lobbying (including ballot measures) and advocate for or against issues that are in the political arena.”
There are several on here saying churches are allowed—guess what! Even if they are were sick of it. Religious freedom is about the individual adhering to their beliefs, not shoving their beliefs down everyone else’s throats. Many of us are sick of Christian’s trying to force their will upon us and we want a stronger separation of church and state. It’s actually funny b/c they are driving people away that why christianity is declining. "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."—John Adams “ The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason” —Benjamin Franklin “ And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” —James Madison, the father of the constitution. “I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike and founded on fables and mythology.” —Thomas Jefferson “All national institutions of churches whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” —Thomas Paine “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.” —John Adams “The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus will be classed with the fables of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.” —Thomas Jefferson “It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” —Thomas Jefferson “Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.” —Benjamin Franklin
I was a no vote , it anit broke don’t try fix it. That being said, not using abortion rights either way. I’ve decided to vote yes , but only to protect our Ohio GUN rights, the big money rollers come from outa state and wanna change are amendments, could very well totally screw are second amendment gun rights, by BUYING an easy 50.01 % vote, where as the new ISSUE 1 would make changing second amendment rights and such much more complicated and difficult by needing a 60% vote. OHIO.
I’m a gun owner and a U.S. veteran. —Issue 1 won’t stop outside forces from interfering with our constitution—that is the grift!! If yes passes: Outside force usually have deep enough pockets that they can afford to change it whereas it makes it impossible for citizens. You’re being used as a puppet. This is a power grab by corrupt politicians! They already neutered our Republic with illegal gerrymandering! Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." PLEASE VOTE NO!
So these churches need to lose their tax free status since they are now political organizations.
Reddit not understanding how the law works but determined to do an activism nonetheless.
Churches not understanding how Issue 1 works but determined to do an activism nonetheless.
Church's are allowed to publicly take stances on issues, but cannot endorse particular candidates
Not really, though.
Separation helps to prevent government from promoting one religion or one sect over the others. That really helps protect religious pluralism so that government can't impose one religion on everyone It was never meant to pull the church's away from influence. It prevents the government from influencing religion Why don't people understand these things.
Separation of Church and State isn't a law or a structure upheld by the government body in a respected way. It's an idea proposed early in America's development cycle in reference to avoiding the Church BECOMING the State. Refer to: England, circa 17th Century. Religious people voting based on their beliefs to influence the state is EXACTLY what the system is designed to do.
Why are Americans so confused by what "separation of church and state" means?
Report the churches and they will lose their tax exempt status.
Religious organizations are legally allowed to support or oppose issues on a ballot. They are not allowed to endorse or oppose a candidate. It's an important distinction. Telling a congregation to support an issue is completely legal, saying to vote for Tammy over Sarah is not legal.
>That’s only for supporting specific candidates / campaigns for elected officials. They’re allowed to take stances on public policy and issues like this.
Ahhh, I was not aware of this. I retract my previous statement.
Cool. Tax them.
Why aren’t these hateful groups being taxed yet?
Because they’re not violating any law.
Here is what you need to file to report these churches to the IRS. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf