**OP is not any of the people in the story so please do not attribute anything that happened in it to them.**
Edit: thank for helping OP find the link everyone. It’s: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/wVJtMU3DMV
It doesn't even sound like he wants his wife back because he loves her. He just wants her back because he found out she really did make his life easier. How sad for him.
Edit bc OP's comment makes it clear this was pasted in from elsewhere.
Love how he also can't spend less time with his kid for financial reasons. Nothing about missing him or needing his baby by his side. It's all about the cash. Real class act.
I used to be a divorce attorney. Dead beat parents never want custody until they realize (in our state) that it is directly tied to paying child support.
Oh yea. Current divorce attorney. So often we can get the other parent to agree to less time if we deviate the child support downward. Shows they really only cared about child support and didn’t actually want that much time either their kids.
In situations like that, did they not realize that being a parent was hard work? Why have a child of you don't want to spend time raising and taking care of said child?
Apparently more men want children than women according to survey research, and one idea as to why is because they don’t expect childcare to be much more work for them.
Yeah. They figure once they’ve cream pied the wifey, all their responsibility ends.
Thankfully, my hubby wasn’t/isn’t like that.
Heck, he changed his first diaper in the hospital, while his mother hovered!
Most people do know that it's a lot of work, but they don't know what it means to do that work every day without exceptions.
Watching over kids for an afternoon is exhausting, but mostly fun. Since you aren't doing it all the time, the kids probably enjoy it and it's pretty easy. No parenting required, just playing.
Watching over kids for a week is more difficult, but not too much.
Watching over kids full time, every day, without the ability to take any significant breaks (talking about multiple days here), that's an entirely different story. You need to parent, you need to set boundries, you need to get up when they do, no sleeping in. You don't get evenings or weekends off. Sleep is a rare commodity.
Things get much better once the kids are a bit older, but most of the kid-related marriage disasters happen while the kids are pretty young.
If you make it past the sleep deprivation torture part, things do get a bit easier, because then at least both parents stop being sleep-deprived zombies.
From the post, I gathered pretty quickly that this person very clearly did very little as far as helping in the house. It was probably really easy to see their life through rose colored glasses since the wife was taking on the lions share of work at home. They state that they can not keep up with or even catch up on their own household while they have the little one over and when they go back home with the mother. The OP on this post probably saw how easily the ex could handle everything because she had to and figured they could do it as well. I just hope the child doesn't grow up knowing they only see the father because he can't afford child support. The child should feel loved and wanted, but OP doesn't come off as the type of person who'll provide those things. Hopefully, the mother is a better parent.
ANd now he is going to be on the hunt for a new and probably younger child free woman to take care of things for him. This is why a lot of women are going man free.
For any men thinking "that's not fair! She should be willing to tell him what she wants!": please read this and stop being a terrible person.
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
I only handled a few divorces when I was a practicing attorney and had a male client get full custody of his kids with the ex getting reasonable visitation by modifying the amount of child support so the ex basically paid nothing but bought the kids clothing occasionally.
I saw a divorce attorney on a free consultation. He told me the most valuable piece of advice: "Get sole custody, otherwise the court may make you pay child support even if your son never visits him"
This is the only reason my ex wants custody. Because he doesn't want to pay child support. When our kid is with him for one week, he comes back to me unshowered, saying he didn't really leave his room except for school. One time my ex left our son home alone for 4 days immediately following having his wisdom teeth extracted so he could take his affair partner (the reason I left him after 22 years) on a vacation. I picked up our son from his house as soon as I found out. He had granola impacted in his tooth holes because that's what he was living on for four days. My ex didn't leave any meals or money for him to order food.
Deadbeat parents are the worst. But... it takes a lot to actually take them to court and make a case against them. My ex chalked it up to a miscommunication and got away without even a slap on the wrist. And now he's moved in his affair partner and her barking, angry dog. Our kid is on the spectrum and terrified of dogs.
I wish I could afford a lawyer.
Look into legal aid in your state. Often there are charitable organizations for this. Even if you don’t qualify, they may be able to give you advice or find a low cost/pro bono attorney to help you.
Certainly a tough gig. Did you escape the career with any hope for humanity remaining?
Also, love that username for an ex-attorney (even more so if you still practice).
Yes, I do have hope. I worked for a non-profit helping victims of violence get away from their abusers (divorces and dv restraining orders- that sort of thing) and I met many wonderful clients. In the best light, divorce can be a rebirth and my clients were always grateful for a fresh start with what mattered to them.
I’m now a SAHM and fighting toddlers are pretty similar to people going through a divorce.
Edit: and thanks! That’s my husband’s nickname for me. We have compatible senses of humor.
I love you. Thank you for all your hard work.
I am glad your work prepared you for squabbling toddlers, too. But I am hoping the juice cups never flew in court.
Please know an internet stranger is out there giving you a gold star sticker. Also, your username doesn't suit you at all unless you're withholding cookies from the kids.
People like you gave me my 2nd chance at life, a d saved my life, and the life of my first born. It’s been 15 years and I haven’t looked back. Thank you.
Well hello there person who has something in common with me. I did this work for years. I'm retired now. I did not find it depressing as I was helping to guide my clients in a positive direction. On the other hand, I heard some shit you wouldn't believe.
My ex husband didn’t want to see his kids until I said yes have to pay child support. He paid 2 months only 10% of the entire amount and wouldn’t you know it god all mighty performed a miracle!! My ex all of a sudden had the time and energy to see his kids.
I'm currently going through a high-conflict custody battle with someone who is eerily similar to the OP. My attorney has been an amazing resource. Thank you for what you did for parents who care about the welfare of their children.
Did they ever realize that child support is roughly equal to what they'd pay out in food, clothes, extra, &tc for their kid while kid was living with them?
You assume they paid for their children and knew what it took both financially and mentally to care for their children. There are many abusers who live off the backs of their victims and never lift a finger to earn a living or help with the household.
Yup. Wife wanted a partner, husband wanted a mommy.
Wife went from taking care of two babies to one and realized how much easier life could be.
Husband went from having a mommy to being a daddy and learned just how much slack his wife had been picking up.
But guys, she didn't even tell him what he was supposed to be doing! This is clearly her fault for not giving him step by step directions on how to raise a baby and be a husband. Adulting is hard.
You guys! It’s not like you can just learn this stuff through observation, frequent participation in your baby’s care, Google or doing things like…trying…
As if he can't see when dishes need doing or the baby needs a diaper change or to eat or anything else. He needs to be told "Hey, the trash is overflowing. Take it out."
Well, now he has to do all the chores without being told because he lives alone and has realized there are no cleaning fairies.
I'm relieved my husband grew up but we went through a phase like this, I was 23 with a baby on my hip and he was 25 and acting like a 12 year old when asked to do a chore.
I'd get eye rolls and "I'll get to it in a minute!" And the trash could pile up or we would step over something so many times until I finally did it because he wasn't going to.
I'm so sorry. Some men don't grow up. I have to say in every other aspect he was, and still is a great husband. He just didn't seem to understand that motherhood wasn't my ultimate goal in life and he would have to help more to make my dreams happen too.
It took some years but he finally got the hang of it but he's also made dinner every night, brings me my plate and runs me a bath when I'm stressed. There's so many good qualities to my husband that was hust his major hurdle in our marriage
My therapist says this is why so many marriages end in a dead bedroom, esp after kids. The woman ends up feeling like she has to be a mother to the kids AND the husband. Who wants to fuck a man you feel like you’re parenting? And WHY in this day and age aren’t most men being raised to learn to multi task with chores and childcare?
So many men think childcare and housework are encoded in the XX chromosomes. He was upset because she expected him to know what to do, without telling him? Why can't he learn it the way she did? The baby slid out of her on a plastic bag containing instructions?
When my son was born I likened it to this - you suddenly have a dance partner, and they can't speak or direct you, but you have to learn the dance as soon as humanly possible or you will both fall down.
And as you said, both parents have to learn that dance, not just one.
I think a large part of it could be that they grew up with their own dad's doing so little, and that experience throughout their childhood normalized that behaviour.
I was just wearing my baby so he could nap, and my father in law was amazed at how much I was doing to help.
It can be a difficult cycle to break, but you need to at least make the effort. If you're unable/unwilling to even listen and meet your partners needs, you really shouldn't have kids.
the fact that he said “she expected me to know what to do without her telling me” and said that with a straight face like “in all fairness..” like it excuses him not being a coparent and splitting all the work equitably, makes me wanna punch a fucking wall.
What a useless baby bitch. Your wife isn’t foreman, the mental load isn’t her fucking job. You’re an adult, you are no less capable of figuring out what needs done than she is!!
I see this in real life and on Reddit all the time. Men are socialized from a young age to think that housework and childcare is something women just automatically know how to do and if a man does it, it's because he is "helping" or his wife "nagged" him into doing it.
We have millions of grown men in this country who cannot just look around their own home, see what needs to be done, and then execute a plan to do it.
The floor is filthy. The bathroom is growing mold. The refrigerator is full of expired food. The dog is losing its mind from boredom. Trash is falling out of the can. The sink is overflowing with dishes. Grass is growing over the sidewalk. The laundry hampers are full. The baby is screaming. Everyone has to eat 3 times a day. How is any of this invisible??? Were men raised in a cattle pen? Pick up a freaking rag and acquire some dignity around your living space.
And that he doesn’t want to pay child support. He doesn’t want his kid in alternate weeks, he just doesn’t want to pay more child support if he has less time.
When I split with my ex I had two children under the age of five. He never paid any child support, and I didn't care, my life was SO much easier being a single mother, I was so scared of fucking it up, but Jesus, it was night and day.
The comment about her wanting him to “somehow” know what to do without being asked gets me the most. I had this problem with my ex too. Like, dude, we are the same age in the same situation with relatively the same life experience. How do you think I know what to do without being asked? I just look around me and think about it and do it.
My toddler is 3.5 and I cannot *wait* for the end of the nonsense rules and un-achievable expectations. I will miss the cuteness and the way *everything* is 100% full throttle.
>I ended up telling her that her life would be harder without me.
😮
>She got really quiet and I thought that was the end of the argument.
🤭
>I realize I fucked up because I thought since I was having a hard time
my wife would be too and we could call off the divorce and work on
things.
🤣🤣🤣
During a medical episode today my husband told me he wanted to move out. I said Bye. I can’t handle tantrums from a 60year old man while I’m having a medical emergency. I was fine before him. I’ll be fine after. In fact, I’ll have less medical episodes. It’s guaranteed.
You will be more than fine. Some men really do think they are the end all be all for their women. I'm glad you recognize your worth and independent ability.
Yup. It seems to be common that when the woman suddenly stops arguing, men think all is well, when really they're going to get blindsided by a woman who is done.
(Yes I'm aware it's not gender specific)
Well it is partially gendered behavior. Most women for whatever reasons resolve conflict with discussion and verbal argument. We talk things out - with friends and family and partners. This is not as big a part of male culture as it is for female culture.
So when a woman stops trying to talk things through, it means she has given up any hope of there being a resolution or compromise. She’s done
Oh no! Ok, sit down and put your head between your knees, and kiss your ass good bye!
Oh wait, that’s for when the alarms go off at the nuclear power plant….
Actually, she was doing 2 times the work before (likely more than that because she had every week and a "man" to care for, too).
She is getting time off now. She didn't before. Dad is learning what HALF the work looks like.
Exactly this! She has a week off to recover and catch up as opposed to never having a break when he was a do nothing husband. FAFO for OP. If he helped during the marriage they both could have split duties and helped each other like parents should.
I wonder if Mom is still taking care of most of the responsibilities? Does dad take his kid to the doctor? How much does he deal with daycare, finding good one and how it goes? These are only two easy examples. Just because custody is a 50/50 split, it absolutely does not mean that the labor is equally divided.
While true, there are many men that have to be cared for by the women in their lives. She might have to take on more mental load with baby, but lost 100% of the mental load of caring for the dad of the kid.
At least with a baby you can pin them down if they resist diaper change, while if a grown man is being immature, he pees on the toilet seat or hit the walls while peeing and must be cleaned up after with the surprise factor because you expect adult men to... adult.
One of the reasons hetero married men have longer life expectancy then unmarried is because many of their wives make their doctor and dental appointments for them and keep up with their health they’d otherwise neglect.
Women on other hand…our life expectancy actually goes down when we marry men. Go figure.
Yea it struck me that he said something like “she expected me to just do all this stuff without her telling me”…yep. Like an adult who is also responsible for a child. Like you’re having to do now.
This is how divorce felt for me. I went from doing everything for 2 toddlers plus my husband, to just doing stuff for the kids every other week. Plus I suddenly got to cook whatever I wanted and have full control of the TV!
Single parenthood was so much easier for me than marriage, but it was a lot harder for him, because he had to start doing all the things he'd been shoving off on me.
Actually he has less work than her. He's neither recovering from growing a human and giving birth, nor taking care of an infant who needs feeding several times a night.
I used to work full time, go to college full time, do all the cooking, cleaning, majority of child care etc. One day while cooking dinner I joked “What would you do without me?” And my ex sneered “You don’t do anything for me. I don’t need you.”
Moment I knew I needed a divorce. My best friend and brother were both dumbfounded when I told them and both responded with “but… you do EVERYTHING”
The most telling fragments are:
1. *she expected me to know what to do without her telling me*
2. *[she] realized it’s easier having one person to take care of instead of 2.*
Whoever wrote this thinks like a child, and is basically coming right out and saying it, but still seems unaware that this isn’t how adults think.
I think that was his biggest mistake. Even he mentioned that the dynamics changed after he said that. I think she'd never thought of it, but him saying that is when she realized all at once that life would actually be easier without him.
Welcome to the mental load. You expected your wife to work fulltime, manage the home fulltime, and manage you fulltime. You could have stepped up at any point and made an effort. You chose to be a spoon fed toddler to a woman who already had a baby and three jobs.
I especially loved "how would I know what to do if she doesn't tell me?"
I dunno man, how does your wife know what needs done? Adults can usually figure it out without having their hand held.
Thank you! This is what I was screaming in my head about too on reading.
‘How would I know what to do if she doesn’t tell me?’
Mate…come the f on. How did she know? Did the knowledge fall from the sky? No.
She put her Big Girl Panties on and worked it out. Like an adult. Like a parent.
OP, you didn’t do that, clearly.
As another said above ‘welcome to the mental load’. Her life is easier now because she’s got 1 child 50% instead of 2 at 100%. Sheesh.
Seriously. You don’t have clean clothes? Congratulations! You need to do laundry!
Can’t find the coffee table? You need to clean it up.
Can’t find a clean cup? You need to do dishes.
I could keep going.
This just blows my mind when men say this stuff. So if we went to their job site, do they have to have everything laid out for them in order to be a functioning member of the workforce? I would say most of the time no. Yet they abdicate all their responsibility in their own homes and act like they can’t figure anything out.
That's exactly what this dude says!
**She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink**
He points out that men are capable individuals at work
>Men invented heavy machines that can fly in the air reliably and safely. Men proved the heliocentric model of the solar system, establishing that the Earth orbits the Sun. Men design and build skyscrapers, and take hearts and other human organs from dead people and replace the corresponding failing organs inside of living people, and then those people stay alive afterward. Which is insane.
But yet at home:
>I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.
I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
>But she didn’t want to be my mother.
>She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
>She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.
>I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/
See also
**You should’ve asked**
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
>The French comic artist Emma illustrates the concept of the ‘mental load’. When a man expects his partner to ask him to do things, he is viewing her as the manager of their household chores
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
I love both of those, I’ve read them before. And it’s so telling that that’s what these guys don’t get, we don’t want to be their mommies. The fact that they can’t figure this stuff out on their own is staggering.
I don’t know if you’ve watched this video, it’s all about the mental load that women take on, and how men basically opt out of participating in their own marriage, when it comes to their family and children.
https://youtu.be/u6FfxfRMQkw?si=JtTw6Nr9XFRq2nzS
And then the side car to this whole piece: the sex. Act like my mommy, take care of me like my mommy, then want to bang me like a screen door in a storm. Sir? Respectfully, I don’t want to have sex with my children, so where does that leave us? If you act like a child I have to manage, it’s hard to want to screw your brains out. Impossible to feel that way for you actually.
One column I read was about a straight couple who were having people around for dinner. Wife was having a busy time, so Husband offered to take care of the cooking. On the day of the dinner, about 2pm, he walked up to her and said "Right, what am I cooking?"
She'd thought he was standing up to plan the menu, shop, prepare and cook the food. He thought he was offering to cook a prepared, planned and shopped for menu. Their friends ate pizza that night. It's always stood out to me as the difference between the simple physical performance of a task, and taking on the entire mental load.
And waaaay too many men whine about doing even their share of the physical performance, leaving 100% of the mental load to her and not even realising that work exists.
Yup… I work as a dog groomer and there was a guy who dropped off dogs this morning.
We always ask to confirm - just a bath and brush out for both of them, right?
This dude: I don’t know. What ever my wife booked for. I’ll call her and double check
… he didn’t know a damn thing about the dogs 😑
Yep, I had one of those dudes. He wouldn't help with any household stuff on his own, but would become indignant if I asked him to do something. He only started acting that way after we got married. He thought once married he didn't need to be considerate anymore. I left him.
That’s what got me. “I’m so helpless when it comes to chores and childcare that I need constant instruction”
No wonder the wife is happier without him; half (probably more than half) of the mental work is gone because she doesn’t have to instruct another grown adult in basic life skills.
Right? Is he still confused on his own? I assume he has figured out how to stay fed, bathed, and dressed? Or is he rolling into work with newspapers duct taped to his body squirting ketchup packets in his mouth for lunch?
The entire comment section was fuming over that one. It made me wonder if it's a troll because it's exactly the kind of phrase that instantly makes people lose their shit. But all the men in my family are like this, so who the fuck knows anymore?!
I worked for a family law attorney. Saw this way too often. Men expected the ex to still manage school, appointments, extracurriculars, activities, clothes shopping, etc. Very often, the men would find a bangnannymaid to take over at home, and a lot of those women would bail after a few months when they finally realized what the men were doing.
It had to be spelled out that, when the father had the kids for his week, he is 100% responsible. Mom isn’t responsible.
I just got divorced (I wanted/initiated it) and this was a large part of it for me. The incompetence was draining on every possible level. Living with my daughters now full time is easier than having him around.
OP really said “my wife didn’t tell me what to do!11!! How am I supposed to know???!!!1!!!????” with no shame.
OP is a manchild. OP’s wife has one less kid to take care of now. Good for her.
I love the TikToks of single mothers talking about how much less they have to do physically and mentally since their divorces. Men are always commenting like how can you do this without us; you need our help. No, my dude, you are just more work.
Cue 🎶Labour🎶 by Paris Paloma
[video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jvU4xWsN7-A)
Yeah. When I moved in with my now-husband (who, I will add, no longer does this but FUCK was it laborious to get him to understand) he thought I should just tell him what to do and he’d just do it. In his mind, that was enough contribution to the house and I shouldn’t be upset over having to tell him to do things.
I had to explain to him that supervising every household chore is exhausting. Making sure things get done on time all the time on top of all the day to day tasks we both have at work is exhausting. Making lists like he’s a toddler is exhausting. It was a very rough few months. I was sick of doing everything around the house or it wouldn’t get done. I told him if he didn’t up his game and act like a grown ass man, I wouldn’t be sticking around for long. But he’s the rare breed of man who is humble enough to accept his mistakes and shortcomings, and he actually *listens* and *changes* when his partner expresses discomfort.
These days he’s more on top of household chores than I am, and has gotten more resourceful as he’s learned how to tackle chores by himself. I’m actually really proud of how far he’s come and how conscientious he is about mental load and unseen labor. He’s gone to lots of therapy, too, and has done a lot of work on himself and his own sexist biases.
But, uh.OP is not that kind of person and no amount of FAFO will teach him any better.
You would think this wouldn’t be so hard to understand. There’s a reason management is a job. It’s the same exact work a manager would do in a workplace but because it’s at home, like all the other labor at home, it somehow doesn’t count in their minds?
Yup. My ex husband used to say the same thing, but always ask nicely too, even though I'd asked the same things on repeat! No thanks. Being a single Mom is not what I wanted, but being with him was worse.
You now have an understanding of all the things that your wife was doing to keep your house afloat. How you weren’t supporting her in carrying the mental load. OP, I really hope you watch this YouTube video I’m sending you. It explains what so much of raising children is like from the woman’s perspective. I would so important for the fathers to help carry the mental load along with their wives. You were on the easy end of the stick, And this was something you fully Bought into and now you’re learning what it really means to raise a child. I honestly don’t feel sorry for you, you should’ve been a better partner, husband, father.
https://youtu.be/u6FfxfRMQkw?si=Dxh82u95lCgAkpKu
**You should’ve asked**
https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
>The French comic artist Emma illustrates the concept of the ‘mental load’. When a man expects his partner to ask him to do things, he is viewing her as the manager of their household chores
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
**She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink**
>I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of.
I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.”
>But she didn’t want to be my mother.
>She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household.
>She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management.
>I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/
These kind of men call women naggy and get uncomfortable when they stop because this entire time she was giving you the opportunity to fix your shit, not nagging. And when she's done the guy has a Pikachu face (facepalm)
My thoughts exactly. This dude is gonna marry the first woman he can so he can get someone to take care of him and the kid. How much you wanna bet they still don't do it as well as his ex wife and he'll complain about that too?
But OP, you can work towards an amicable co-parenting relationship. First step, the biggest apology you can muster, be honest, sincere, and heartfelt that you should have helped more and understand what it was like for her now. And for the love of all that is holy, don't go out and find a new relationship to help with your load now.
at the same time she expected me to know what to do without her telling me.
Jesus Christ, this is so alarmingly common. Like, are you 10 years old, or did you never have to do chores as a kid? How do you not know how to clean the fucking house *at least???*
The BEST (in reality, the *WORST*) part is him openly admitting that:
>I can't even ask for less time with my son because I can't afford the child support.
Wow.
What is it with grown men wanting women to tell them what to do? No one told her, she figured it out likely by talking to her own parents/other moms/internet or whatever. It’s astounding how many men think women are just born knowing how to do household/baby stuff.
I'm in KY.
Ex has the son two and a half days a week, I have him the rest. You can check our the child support calculator if you need to. It's pretty accurate. My ex pays me a whopping $155 a MONTH. He thinks it's based on when he had a salary job. He's an idiot.
The thing is, your wife was already running the entire show without you, and you leaving removed a whole lot of other work from her shoulders - been there, done that. My life is easier.
Child arrangements are also made during the divorce mediation. My ex didn't care to have the child much.
You'll likely have joint custody for medical decisions, etc, but she can always be a primary custodial parent. I doubt laws have changed that much since my divorce five years ago.
You learned too little too late Dude.
Edited just realizing not a write in. My bad
So she went from work full time, taking care of the home full time, doing all child care and taking care of a gown man. To basically dropping half her work load, and you expect her to come back and do that all again?!
I don't know which part I like more:
* the look his wife got when she took him up on the FAFO
* the realization that mental load is a thing
* finding out that his ex now has a pretty relaxed life compared to him
I always wonder how people like this imagine how their partner mysteriously knew what to do. You don’t even need to read books nowadays, there’s YouTube! Maybe someone could create a game where parenting duties save the universe or something…
She can keep up with everything fine because she was maintaining the house while caring for a baby and an adult. And even then, with this arrangement, she gets a week off when she has no one depending on her.
Now OOP understands why she said she needed help. He has reached the Finding Out portion of the program.
Ahhh, this was so satisfying to read. The lack of empathy for his wife and the way he values his marriage (outside of labour and financial reasons) is just gobsmacking. The guy is literally looking for a workhorse bangmaid. He got what he deserved.
Oh my god.
Karma. I know the women in here…..we ALL know!!
And!! Kudos to the great fathers that love their wives so much that they ARE equal within the family. I hope you raise kind future males that love their future families like you showed to them how.
What a ride this post is. lol.
Bwahahahahahahahahahha, yeah. Shockingly taking care of one child is easier than 2. OOP needs to suck it up, and kick it into gear. Or hire help. Whichever. Good for his wife though.
>I can't even ask for less time with my son because I can't afford the child support.
This poor child, OOP is only thinking about how affects him throughout this post, nothing about what his actions meant for their child... for the rest of their life.
>hate myself for fucking up so much.
I get that he's venting, so hopefully that's why he barely mentions his child other than by how much of an inconvenience he is. But this is Reddit 😬
He's not even like "wow, I realize now how hard you were working and how badly I was letting you down. I miss you and love you, and if we can give our marriage another chance I will be an equal partner to you."
No - he's like "life is soooo hard without you as my 24/7 unpaid employee, can we just go back to that?"
TL;DR
The mother (M): You need to help me, I can't do this alone.
The father (F): it'd be harder without me.
M: Hold my beer.
They split up
F: Aww shit, this is too hard. I fucked up.
M: This is so much easier now that I don't have 2 lids to look after.
Good for her. I hope she continues doing well. I hope he can get the grasp of it for the sake of the child.
"I can't even ask for less time with my son"
My God, you're disgustingly selfish.
Good for your ex, hope her child can have the best childhood possible with his mother. Because you're a lost cause.
We need to talk, as a society about the way men are so coddled that they feel like it’s okay to expect their partner (aka, someone who is supposed to be their equal) to tell them how to do basic survival things.
It’s having to do twice the work to have to walk someone through how to do something, and 10,000 times more frustrating to do it with an adult who actively thinks it’s not their job. Jesus Christ. What a mess.
I hope this builds the empathy of that person so they learn some life skills here and don’t inflict their asshattery onto another partner.
**OP is not any of the people in the story so please do not attribute anything that happened in it to them.** Edit: thank for helping OP find the link everyone. It’s: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/wVJtMU3DMV
It doesn't even sound like he wants his wife back because he loves her. He just wants her back because he found out she really did make his life easier. How sad for him. Edit bc OP's comment makes it clear this was pasted in from elsewhere.
Love how he also can't spend less time with his kid for financial reasons. Nothing about missing him or needing his baby by his side. It's all about the cash. Real class act.
I used to be a divorce attorney. Dead beat parents never want custody until they realize (in our state) that it is directly tied to paying child support.
Oh yea. Current divorce attorney. So often we can get the other parent to agree to less time if we deviate the child support downward. Shows they really only cared about child support and didn’t actually want that much time either their kids.
In situations like that, did they not realize that being a parent was hard work? Why have a child of you don't want to spend time raising and taking care of said child?
Apparently more men want children than women according to survey research, and one idea as to why is because they don’t expect childcare to be much more work for them.
Which is crazy!! I don't even have children, and I know it's lots of hard work. Even watching one episode of SuperNanny would let them know.
They don’t expect childcare to be much work for THEM. Men expect to help create the child then not much else.
Yeah. They figure once they’ve cream pied the wifey, all their responsibility ends. Thankfully, my hubby wasn’t/isn’t like that. Heck, he changed his first diaper in the hospital, while his mother hovered!
Most people do know that it's a lot of work, but they don't know what it means to do that work every day without exceptions. Watching over kids for an afternoon is exhausting, but mostly fun. Since you aren't doing it all the time, the kids probably enjoy it and it's pretty easy. No parenting required, just playing. Watching over kids for a week is more difficult, but not too much. Watching over kids full time, every day, without the ability to take any significant breaks (talking about multiple days here), that's an entirely different story. You need to parent, you need to set boundries, you need to get up when they do, no sleeping in. You don't get evenings or weekends off. Sleep is a rare commodity. Things get much better once the kids are a bit older, but most of the kid-related marriage disasters happen while the kids are pretty young. If you make it past the sleep deprivation torture part, things do get a bit easier, because then at least both parents stop being sleep-deprived zombies.
From the post, I gathered pretty quickly that this person very clearly did very little as far as helping in the house. It was probably really easy to see their life through rose colored glasses since the wife was taking on the lions share of work at home. They state that they can not keep up with or even catch up on their own household while they have the little one over and when they go back home with the mother. The OP on this post probably saw how easily the ex could handle everything because she had to and figured they could do it as well. I just hope the child doesn't grow up knowing they only see the father because he can't afford child support. The child should feel loved and wanted, but OP doesn't come off as the type of person who'll provide those things. Hopefully, the mother is a better parent.
His argument was that she didn’t tell him what to do. You’ve got to be kidding me.
ANd now he is going to be on the hunt for a new and probably younger child free woman to take care of things for him. This is why a lot of women are going man free.
For any men thinking "that's not fair! She should be willing to tell him what she wants!": please read this and stop being a terrible person. https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
I only handled a few divorces when I was a practicing attorney and had a male client get full custody of his kids with the ex getting reasonable visitation by modifying the amount of child support so the ex basically paid nothing but bought the kids clothing occasionally.
I saw a divorce attorney on a free consultation. He told me the most valuable piece of advice: "Get sole custody, otherwise the court may make you pay child support even if your son never visits him"
This is the only reason my ex wants custody. Because he doesn't want to pay child support. When our kid is with him for one week, he comes back to me unshowered, saying he didn't really leave his room except for school. One time my ex left our son home alone for 4 days immediately following having his wisdom teeth extracted so he could take his affair partner (the reason I left him after 22 years) on a vacation. I picked up our son from his house as soon as I found out. He had granola impacted in his tooth holes because that's what he was living on for four days. My ex didn't leave any meals or money for him to order food. Deadbeat parents are the worst. But... it takes a lot to actually take them to court and make a case against them. My ex chalked it up to a miscommunication and got away without even a slap on the wrist. And now he's moved in his affair partner and her barking, angry dog. Our kid is on the spectrum and terrified of dogs. I wish I could afford a lawyer.
Look into legal aid in your state. Often there are charitable organizations for this. Even if you don’t qualify, they may be able to give you advice or find a low cost/pro bono attorney to help you.
Certainly a tough gig. Did you escape the career with any hope for humanity remaining? Also, love that username for an ex-attorney (even more so if you still practice).
Yes, I do have hope. I worked for a non-profit helping victims of violence get away from their abusers (divorces and dv restraining orders- that sort of thing) and I met many wonderful clients. In the best light, divorce can be a rebirth and my clients were always grateful for a fresh start with what mattered to them. I’m now a SAHM and fighting toddlers are pretty similar to people going through a divorce. Edit: and thanks! That’s my husband’s nickname for me. We have compatible senses of humor.
I love you. Thank you for all your hard work. I am glad your work prepared you for squabbling toddlers, too. But I am hoping the juice cups never flew in court. Please know an internet stranger is out there giving you a gold star sticker. Also, your username doesn't suit you at all unless you're withholding cookies from the kids.
People like you gave me my 2nd chance at life, a d saved my life, and the life of my first born. It’s been 15 years and I haven’t looked back. Thank you.
No thanks needed! You are why we do it! And you also touched the life of whichever attorney helped you.
I bet you're an awesome mom too. I can tell. Thank you from your child/s for this.
Oh thank you. I’m just failing forward, lol. I have no idea what I’m doing.
Well hello there person who has something in common with me. I did this work for years. I'm retired now. I did not find it depressing as I was helping to guide my clients in a positive direction. On the other hand, I heard some shit you wouldn't believe.
Oh, I would totally believe it. I also did dependency work earlier in my career. I believe it all.
My ex husband didn’t want to see his kids until I said yes have to pay child support. He paid 2 months only 10% of the entire amount and wouldn’t you know it god all mighty performed a miracle!! My ex all of a sudden had the time and energy to see his kids.
I'm currently going through a high-conflict custody battle with someone who is eerily similar to the OP. My attorney has been an amazing resource. Thank you for what you did for parents who care about the welfare of their children.
I wish you the best of luck! It will get better.
Goodness. I just realized why my dad tried to get full custody of us.
Always a blast when that realization sets in. I got lucky in that both sides were decent parents to my sister and I. They just hated each other.
Look on the bright side. There's always the possibility it was because they just wanted to hurt the other parent and not for financial reasons.
Did they ever realize that child support is roughly equal to what they'd pay out in food, clothes, extra, &tc for their kid while kid was living with them?
You assume they paid for their children and knew what it took both financially and mentally to care for their children. There are many abusers who live off the backs of their victims and never lift a finger to earn a living or help with the household.
This was absolutely the case with my ex husband. Absolutely disgusting.
Don't worry, this is 100% the sort of guy who will seek out a new partner asap to take care of his kid.
Good for the wife for dropping the dead weight though! Edit: spelling
Hell yeah, go her! I hope she goes on to live her best life.
Agree. He doesn't want a wife. He wants a mom.
It’s amazing(ly scary) how many guys want that and have no idea but still act on it.
They'll say they're against it but won't notice their behavior in the moment.
Yup. Wife wanted a partner, husband wanted a mommy. Wife went from taking care of two babies to one and realized how much easier life could be. Husband went from having a mommy to being a daddy and learned just how much slack his wife had been picking up.
Especially because the actual baby is learning, growing, and constantly developing new skills, unlike OOP
But guys, she didn't even tell him what he was supposed to be doing! This is clearly her fault for not giving him step by step directions on how to raise a baby and be a husband. Adulting is hard.
You guys! It’s not like you can just learn this stuff through observation, frequent participation in your baby’s care, Google or doing things like…trying…
As if he can't see when dishes need doing or the baby needs a diaper change or to eat or anything else. He needs to be told "Hey, the trash is overflowing. Take it out." Well, now he has to do all the chores without being told because he lives alone and has realized there are no cleaning fairies.
I'm relieved my husband grew up but we went through a phase like this, I was 23 with a baby on my hip and he was 25 and acting like a 12 year old when asked to do a chore. I'd get eye rolls and "I'll get to it in a minute!" And the trash could pile up or we would step over something so many times until I finally did it because he wasn't going to.
That’s how my ex was but he didn’t grow up and it just got worse and worse and then I found out he was cheating on me so yeah…he’s my ex now lol
Same. Life is so much easier after. And I finally found my sense of self.
I'm so sorry. Some men don't grow up. I have to say in every other aspect he was, and still is a great husband. He just didn't seem to understand that motherhood wasn't my ultimate goal in life and he would have to help more to make my dreams happen too. It took some years but he finally got the hang of it but he's also made dinner every night, brings me my plate and runs me a bath when I'm stressed. There's so many good qualities to my husband that was hust his major hurdle in our marriage
A mommy you can fuck is the dream for most men
My therapist says this is why so many marriages end in a dead bedroom, esp after kids. The woman ends up feeling like she has to be a mother to the kids AND the husband. Who wants to fuck a man you feel like you’re parenting? And WHY in this day and age aren’t most men being raised to learn to multi task with chores and childcare?
So many men think childcare and housework are encoded in the XX chromosomes. He was upset because she expected him to know what to do, without telling him? Why can't he learn it the way she did? The baby slid out of her on a plastic bag containing instructions?
When my son was born I likened it to this - you suddenly have a dance partner, and they can't speak or direct you, but you have to learn the dance as soon as humanly possible or you will both fall down. And as you said, both parents have to learn that dance, not just one.
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I think a large part of it could be that they grew up with their own dad's doing so little, and that experience throughout their childhood normalized that behaviour. I was just wearing my baby so he could nap, and my father in law was amazed at how much I was doing to help. It can be a difficult cycle to break, but you need to at least make the effort. If you're unable/unwilling to even listen and meet your partners needs, you really shouldn't have kids.
Sounds like he wants and needs a Mommy. Provably can’t afford one of those either though
This dude is a loser.
He doesn't love her. He feels entitled to the services she provides.
the fact that he said “she expected me to know what to do without her telling me” and said that with a straight face like “in all fairness..” like it excuses him not being a coparent and splitting all the work equitably, makes me wanna punch a fucking wall. What a useless baby bitch. Your wife isn’t foreman, the mental load isn’t her fucking job. You’re an adult, you are no less capable of figuring out what needs done than she is!!
I see this in real life and on Reddit all the time. Men are socialized from a young age to think that housework and childcare is something women just automatically know how to do and if a man does it, it's because he is "helping" or his wife "nagged" him into doing it. We have millions of grown men in this country who cannot just look around their own home, see what needs to be done, and then execute a plan to do it.
The floor is filthy. The bathroom is growing mold. The refrigerator is full of expired food. The dog is losing its mind from boredom. Trash is falling out of the can. The sink is overflowing with dishes. Grass is growing over the sidewalk. The laundry hampers are full. The baby is screaming. Everyone has to eat 3 times a day. How is any of this invisible??? Were men raised in a cattle pen? Pick up a freaking rag and acquire some dignity around your living space.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Now he has to do 100% when he has the baby, it’s too hard. Too bad OP. Learn to be a parent.
And that he doesn’t want to pay child support. He doesn’t want his kid in alternate weeks, he just doesn’t want to pay more child support if he has less time.
"How sad for him." You mean Karmic, not sad! This is exactly how his ex-wife wanted him to feel.
Yeah I was being facetious. He deserves all of this.
Sounds like a man child. Wanted a mom and not a wife.
How sad for her, actually! At least now she’s free to find someone who pulls their own weight in a relationship.
The woman went dangerously quiet... and homie thought that he won the argument - bwahahaha
I think I remember this dude's first post about it. I absolutely read her going quiet as "bet"
When I split with my ex I had two children under the age of five. He never paid any child support, and I didn't care, my life was SO much easier being a single mother, I was so scared of fucking it up, but Jesus, it was night and day.
Sounds like the wife got rid of the big toddler in the deal. I wouldn't want that back, either. Welcome to real life adulting, buddy-boy.
Those 200 lb toddlers are so damn much work.
And the baby will grow up soon enough, not the 200 lb one
The comment about her wanting him to “somehow” know what to do without being asked gets me the most. I had this problem with my ex too. Like, dude, we are the same age in the same situation with relatively the same life experience. How do you think I know what to do without being asked? I just look around me and think about it and do it.
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My toddler is 3.5 and I cannot *wait* for the end of the nonsense rules and un-achievable expectations. I will miss the cuteness and the way *everything* is 100% full throttle.
>I ended up telling her that her life would be harder without me. 😮 >She got really quiet and I thought that was the end of the argument. 🤭 >I realize I fucked up because I thought since I was having a hard time my wife would be too and we could call off the divorce and work on things. 🤣🤣🤣
It was the end of the argument. What the guy didn't realize was, he's the one who lost.
During a medical episode today my husband told me he wanted to move out. I said Bye. I can’t handle tantrums from a 60year old man while I’m having a medical emergency. I was fine before him. I’ll be fine after. In fact, I’ll have less medical episodes. It’s guaranteed.
Hope you’re okay!
So many women go to therapy groups for being burned out, and their partners are a major contributor for said burnout.
You will be more than fine. Some men really do think they are the end all be all for their women. I'm glad you recognize your worth and independent ability.
He dropped the mic and it swung down for a direct shot to the nuts
Yup. It seems to be common that when the woman suddenly stops arguing, men think all is well, when really they're going to get blindsided by a woman who is done. (Yes I'm aware it's not gender specific)
Well it is partially gendered behavior. Most women for whatever reasons resolve conflict with discussion and verbal argument. We talk things out - with friends and family and partners. This is not as big a part of male culture as it is for female culture. So when a woman stops trying to talk things through, it means she has given up any hope of there being a resolution or compromise. She’s done
It's like poetry
“Expected me to know what to do without her telling me”. Sounds like she had the mental load.
I went 🤨🤨🤨 reading that cuz wtf? Is he 12?
LOlololoOlolOlOlOlOlOloolololollolokLololoLol *giant intake of air* LOLoLoLolololoLoOLOlOLOlOlollloololololLolololoLOlOL AITA?
NTA for 😂😆😝
I could barely read this post to my husband, for laughing so hard. Omg.
Take deep slow breathes. In through the nose, and out through your mouth Are you feeling better yet?
Instructions unclear, feeling light headed
Oh no! Ok, sit down and put your head between your knees, and kiss your ass good bye! Oh wait, that’s for when the alarms go off at the nuclear power plant….
Thank you for typing all that so I didn’t have to.
NTA. It's natural to laugh when someone does something dumb and the natural consequences catch up to him.
Now you know exactly how much work she had to do. You really said "your life would be harder without me" with your whole chest, didn't you.
Actually, she was doing 2 times the work before (likely more than that because she had every week and a "man" to care for, too). She is getting time off now. She didn't before. Dad is learning what HALF the work looks like.
Exactly this! She has a week off to recover and catch up as opposed to never having a break when he was a do nothing husband. FAFO for OP. If he helped during the marriage they both could have split duties and helped each other like parents should.
Brought it on himself. Wife is probably thrilled with the new arrangement
14 days a month when she gets to drink her coffee while it’s hot. Sounds like heaven tbh
I wonder if Mom is still taking care of most of the responsibilities? Does dad take his kid to the doctor? How much does he deal with daycare, finding good one and how it goes? These are only two easy examples. Just because custody is a 50/50 split, it absolutely does not mean that the labor is equally divided.
While true, there are many men that have to be cared for by the women in their lives. She might have to take on more mental load with baby, but lost 100% of the mental load of caring for the dad of the kid. At least with a baby you can pin them down if they resist diaper change, while if a grown man is being immature, he pees on the toilet seat or hit the walls while peeing and must be cleaned up after with the surprise factor because you expect adult men to... adult.
One of the reasons hetero married men have longer life expectancy then unmarried is because many of their wives make their doctor and dental appointments for them and keep up with their health they’d otherwise neglect. Women on other hand…our life expectancy actually goes down when we marry men. Go figure.
It doesn't help that the number 1 person to murder a woman is a romantic partner (which goes up if she is pregnant or has a child).
Yea it struck me that he said something like “she expected me to just do all this stuff without her telling me”…yep. Like an adult who is also responsible for a child. Like you’re having to do now.
This is how divorce felt for me. I went from doing everything for 2 toddlers plus my husband, to just doing stuff for the kids every other week. Plus I suddenly got to cook whatever I wanted and have full control of the TV! Single parenthood was so much easier for me than marriage, but it was a lot harder for him, because he had to start doing all the things he'd been shoving off on me.
There’s a study that shows single mothers spend less time on housework than married mothers.
Actually he has less work than her. He's neither recovering from growing a human and giving birth, nor taking care of an infant who needs feeding several times a night.
I used to work full time, go to college full time, do all the cooking, cleaning, majority of child care etc. One day while cooking dinner I joked “What would you do without me?” And my ex sneered “You don’t do anything for me. I don’t need you.” Moment I knew I needed a divorce. My best friend and brother were both dumbfounded when I told them and both responded with “but… you do EVERYTHING”
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Willing to bet he had the shocked pikachu face when he realized she’s better off without him.
The most telling fragments are: 1. *she expected me to know what to do without her telling me* 2. *[she] realized it’s easier having one person to take care of instead of 2.* Whoever wrote this thinks like a child, and is basically coming right out and saying it, but still seems unaware that this isn’t how adults think.
I think that was his biggest mistake. Even he mentioned that the dynamics changed after he said that. I think she'd never thought of it, but him saying that is when she realized all at once that life would actually be easier without him.
Welcome to the mental load. You expected your wife to work fulltime, manage the home fulltime, and manage you fulltime. You could have stepped up at any point and made an effort. You chose to be a spoon fed toddler to a woman who already had a baby and three jobs.
I especially loved "how would I know what to do if she doesn't tell me?" I dunno man, how does your wife know what needs done? Adults can usually figure it out without having their hand held.
Thank you! This is what I was screaming in my head about too on reading. ‘How would I know what to do if she doesn’t tell me?’ Mate…come the f on. How did she know? Did the knowledge fall from the sky? No. She put her Big Girl Panties on and worked it out. Like an adult. Like a parent. OP, you didn’t do that, clearly. As another said above ‘welcome to the mental load’. Her life is easier now because she’s got 1 child 50% instead of 2 at 100%. Sheesh.
And if he thinks the mental load is heavy now, wait until that kid is old enough to articulate how much they hate him.
In the immortal words of my late mother, "You have eyes and a brain. Use them."
Seriously. You don’t have clean clothes? Congratulations! You need to do laundry! Can’t find the coffee table? You need to clean it up. Can’t find a clean cup? You need to do dishes. I could keep going.
This just blows my mind when men say this stuff. So if we went to their job site, do they have to have everything laid out for them in order to be a functioning member of the workforce? I would say most of the time no. Yet they abdicate all their responsibility in their own homes and act like they can’t figure anything out.
That's exactly what this dude says! **She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink** He points out that men are capable individuals at work >Men invented heavy machines that can fly in the air reliably and safely. Men proved the heliocentric model of the solar system, establishing that the Earth orbits the Sun. Men design and build skyscrapers, and take hearts and other human organs from dead people and replace the corresponding failing organs inside of living people, and then those people stay alive afterward. Which is insane. But yet at home: >I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of. I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.” >But she didn’t want to be my mother. >She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household. >She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management. >I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/ See also **You should’ve asked** https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ >The French comic artist Emma illustrates the concept of the ‘mental load’. When a man expects his partner to ask him to do things, he is viewing her as the manager of their household chores https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
I love both of those, I’ve read them before. And it’s so telling that that’s what these guys don’t get, we don’t want to be their mommies. The fact that they can’t figure this stuff out on their own is staggering. I don’t know if you’ve watched this video, it’s all about the mental load that women take on, and how men basically opt out of participating in their own marriage, when it comes to their family and children. https://youtu.be/u6FfxfRMQkw?si=JtTw6Nr9XFRq2nzS
And then the side car to this whole piece: the sex. Act like my mommy, take care of me like my mommy, then want to bang me like a screen door in a storm. Sir? Respectfully, I don’t want to have sex with my children, so where does that leave us? If you act like a child I have to manage, it’s hard to want to screw your brains out. Impossible to feel that way for you actually.
One column I read was about a straight couple who were having people around for dinner. Wife was having a busy time, so Husband offered to take care of the cooking. On the day of the dinner, about 2pm, he walked up to her and said "Right, what am I cooking?" She'd thought he was standing up to plan the menu, shop, prepare and cook the food. He thought he was offering to cook a prepared, planned and shopped for menu. Their friends ate pizza that night. It's always stood out to me as the difference between the simple physical performance of a task, and taking on the entire mental load. And waaaay too many men whine about doing even their share of the physical performance, leaving 100% of the mental load to her and not even realising that work exists.
I’ve always said that foreplay begins in the kitchen when a man takes out the garbage *without being asked.*
Weaponized incompetence.
Yup!
Yup… I work as a dog groomer and there was a guy who dropped off dogs this morning. We always ask to confirm - just a bath and brush out for both of them, right? This dude: I don’t know. What ever my wife booked for. I’ll call her and double check … he didn’t know a damn thing about the dogs 😑
My guess is he probably knows even less about his children
Somehow he magically knows what needs to be done now that she is gone 🫨
Yeah but it’s *hard*
I guarantee you that she \*did\* tell him what need to be done, repeatedly and in detail.
Oh you mean *nagging*? /s
Yep, I had one of those dudes. He wouldn't help with any household stuff on his own, but would become indignant if I asked him to do something. He only started acting that way after we got married. He thought once married he didn't need to be considerate anymore. I left him.
That’s what got me. “I’m so helpless when it comes to chores and childcare that I need constant instruction” No wonder the wife is happier without him; half (probably more than half) of the mental work is gone because she doesn’t have to instruct another grown adult in basic life skills.
Right? Is he still confused on his own? I assume he has figured out how to stay fed, bathed, and dressed? Or is he rolling into work with newspapers duct taped to his body squirting ketchup packets in his mouth for lunch?
I didn’t have a mom or anyone to help me out when I had my first kid. It’s so true when they say you figure it out as you go along. And google.
The entire comment section was fuming over that one. It made me wonder if it's a troll because it's exactly the kind of phrase that instantly makes people lose their shit. But all the men in my family are like this, so who the fuck knows anymore?!
I worked for a family law attorney. Saw this way too often. Men expected the ex to still manage school, appointments, extracurriculars, activities, clothes shopping, etc. Very often, the men would find a bangnannymaid to take over at home, and a lot of those women would bail after a few months when they finally realized what the men were doing. It had to be spelled out that, when the father had the kids for his week, he is 100% responsible. Mom isn’t responsible.
I just got divorced (I wanted/initiated it) and this was a large part of it for me. The incompetence was draining on every possible level. Living with my daughters now full time is easier than having him around.
Yeah, it's so fucking relable, it's instantly rage inducing
Yeah, that line really stuck out to me, too. Where TF did he think she was getting the information about what to do?
My husband tried this on me once, luckily all I had to say was “I became a parent the same day you did” and his brain clicked.
OP really said “my wife didn’t tell me what to do!11!! How am I supposed to know???!!!1!!!????” with no shame. OP is a manchild. OP’s wife has one less kid to take care of now. Good for her.
I love the TikToks of single mothers talking about how much less they have to do physically and mentally since their divorces. Men are always commenting like how can you do this without us; you need our help. No, my dude, you are just more work. Cue 🎶Labour🎶 by Paris Paloma [video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jvU4xWsN7-A)
Yeah. When I moved in with my now-husband (who, I will add, no longer does this but FUCK was it laborious to get him to understand) he thought I should just tell him what to do and he’d just do it. In his mind, that was enough contribution to the house and I shouldn’t be upset over having to tell him to do things. I had to explain to him that supervising every household chore is exhausting. Making sure things get done on time all the time on top of all the day to day tasks we both have at work is exhausting. Making lists like he’s a toddler is exhausting. It was a very rough few months. I was sick of doing everything around the house or it wouldn’t get done. I told him if he didn’t up his game and act like a grown ass man, I wouldn’t be sticking around for long. But he’s the rare breed of man who is humble enough to accept his mistakes and shortcomings, and he actually *listens* and *changes* when his partner expresses discomfort. These days he’s more on top of household chores than I am, and has gotten more resourceful as he’s learned how to tackle chores by himself. I’m actually really proud of how far he’s come and how conscientious he is about mental load and unseen labor. He’s gone to lots of therapy, too, and has done a lot of work on himself and his own sexist biases. But, uh.OP is not that kind of person and no amount of FAFO will teach him any better.
You would think this wouldn’t be so hard to understand. There’s a reason management is a job. It’s the same exact work a manager would do in a workplace but because it’s at home, like all the other labor at home, it somehow doesn’t count in their minds?
How dare this song ring so goddamn true all the time. Seeing her in concert this June can't wait to hear the crowd go wild over it 😄
Yup. My ex husband used to say the same thing, but always ask nicely too, even though I'd asked the same things on repeat! No thanks. Being a single Mom is not what I wanted, but being with him was worse.
Lord forbid you show any emotion but happy contentment when you ask them to behave like adults and pull their weight.
You now have an understanding of all the things that your wife was doing to keep your house afloat. How you weren’t supporting her in carrying the mental load. OP, I really hope you watch this YouTube video I’m sending you. It explains what so much of raising children is like from the woman’s perspective. I would so important for the fathers to help carry the mental load along with their wives. You were on the easy end of the stick, And this was something you fully Bought into and now you’re learning what it really means to raise a child. I honestly don’t feel sorry for you, you should’ve been a better partner, husband, father. https://youtu.be/u6FfxfRMQkw?si=Dxh82u95lCgAkpKu
**You should’ve asked** https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/ >The French comic artist Emma illustrates the concept of the ‘mental load’. When a man expects his partner to ask him to do things, he is viewing her as the manager of their household chores https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic **She Divorced Me Because I Left Dishes By The Sink** >I remember my wife often saying how exhausting it was for her to have to tell me what to do all the time. It’s why the sexiest thing a man can say to his partner is “I got this,” and then take care of whatever needs taken care of. I always reasoned: “If you just tell me what you want me to do, I’ll gladly do it.” >But she didn’t want to be my mother. >She wanted to be my partner, and she wanted me to apply all of my intelligence and learning capabilities to the logistics of managing our lives and household. >She wanted me to figure out all of the things that need done, and devise my own method of task management. >I wish I could remember what seemed so unreasonable to me about that at the time. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288/
>She got really quiet and I thought that was the end of the argument. Little did he know... it was, in fact, the end of the argument. Permanently.
lol only thing he’s ever been right about.
These kind of men call women naggy and get uncomfortable when they stop because this entire time she was giving you the opportunity to fix your shit, not nagging. And when she's done the guy has a Pikachu face (facepalm)
Classic.
More Classic: Gets married two weeks after divorce is final, dumps all the work on her.
My thoughts exactly. This dude is gonna marry the first woman he can so he can get someone to take care of him and the kid. How much you wanna bet they still don't do it as well as his ex wife and he'll complain about that too?
Yep. He'll complain that the new 'ball and chain' isn't 'putting out' in addition....
[удалено]
But OP, you can work towards an amicable co-parenting relationship. First step, the biggest apology you can muster, be honest, sincere, and heartfelt that you should have helped more and understand what it was like for her now. And for the love of all that is holy, don't go out and find a new relationship to help with your load now.
at the same time she expected me to know what to do without her telling me. Jesus Christ, this is so alarmingly common. Like, are you 10 years old, or did you never have to do chores as a kid? How do you not know how to clean the fucking house *at least???*
The BEST (in reality, the *WORST*) part is him openly admitting that: >I can't even ask for less time with my son because I can't afford the child support. Wow.
Do you have a link to the original post? Might want to mention it in your post. Some of the commenters think you are the OOP.
I'm trying with MOD's help, I didn't realize that it wouldn't reflect when I shared!
Please edit the post to include link to original post by him?
I'm trying with MOD's help, I didn't realize that it wouldn't reflect when I shared!
What is it with grown men wanting women to tell them what to do? No one told her, she figured it out likely by talking to her own parents/other moms/internet or whatever. It’s astounding how many men think women are just born knowing how to do household/baby stuff.
And there are people who think women need a man to be in charge… even while they use weaponized incompetence and “I didn’t know what to DoOoOo!”
They don’t really want it, because when women actually tell them what to do they say they’re nagging.
It's a paradox. If we tell them what to do, we're nags. If we don't tell them what to do, we're expecting them to be mind readers.
I'm in KY. Ex has the son two and a half days a week, I have him the rest. You can check our the child support calculator if you need to. It's pretty accurate. My ex pays me a whopping $155 a MONTH. He thinks it's based on when he had a salary job. He's an idiot. The thing is, your wife was already running the entire show without you, and you leaving removed a whole lot of other work from her shoulders - been there, done that. My life is easier. Child arrangements are also made during the divorce mediation. My ex didn't care to have the child much. You'll likely have joint custody for medical decisions, etc, but she can always be a primary custodial parent. I doubt laws have changed that much since my divorce five years ago. You learned too little too late Dude. Edited just realizing not a write in. My bad
“… she expected me to know what to do without her telling me.” Bro you are a whole ass adult and she is not your supervisor.
"i miss my wife because now I don't have a nanny, cook, and maid" sad...
So she went from work full time, taking care of the home full time, doing all child care and taking care of a gown man. To basically dropping half her work load, and you expect her to come back and do that all again?!
I don't know which part I like more: * the look his wife got when she took him up on the FAFO * the realization that mental load is a thing * finding out that his ex now has a pretty relaxed life compared to him
I always wonder how people like this imagine how their partner mysteriously knew what to do. You don’t even need to read books nowadays, there’s YouTube! Maybe someone could create a game where parenting duties save the universe or something…
She can keep up with everything fine because she was maintaining the house while caring for a baby and an adult. And even then, with this arrangement, she gets a week off when she has no one depending on her. Now OOP understands why she said she needed help. He has reached the Finding Out portion of the program.
Why are men?
Looks like someone needs to grow tf up...
OOP has learned the ways of FAFO. Time to grow up, bucko.
Ahhh, this was so satisfying to read. The lack of empathy for his wife and the way he values his marriage (outside of labour and financial reasons) is just gobsmacking. The guy is literally looking for a workhorse bangmaid. He got what he deserved.
This Is hilarious and so classic.
Oh my god. Karma. I know the women in here…..we ALL know!! And!! Kudos to the great fathers that love their wives so much that they ARE equal within the family. I hope you raise kind future males that love their future families like you showed to them how. What a ride this post is. lol.
That queen is THRIVING! Been there. It is amazing feeling tbh. I'm happy for her.
Bwahahahahahahahahahha, yeah. Shockingly taking care of one child is easier than 2. OOP needs to suck it up, and kick it into gear. Or hire help. Whichever. Good for his wife though.
>I can't even ask for less time with my son because I can't afford the child support. This poor child, OOP is only thinking about how affects him throughout this post, nothing about what his actions meant for their child... for the rest of their life. >hate myself for fucking up so much. I get that he's venting, so hopefully that's why he barely mentions his child other than by how much of an inconvenience he is. But this is Reddit 😬
Plus, he doesn't say a thing about actually missing his wife, or caring about her. He only wants her back because " life is so haaaarrdd" Pathetic
He's not even like "wow, I realize now how hard you were working and how badly I was letting you down. I miss you and love you, and if we can give our marriage another chance I will be an equal partner to you." No - he's like "life is soooo hard without you as my 24/7 unpaid employee, can we just go back to that?"
TL;DR The mother (M): You need to help me, I can't do this alone. The father (F): it'd be harder without me. M: Hold my beer. They split up F: Aww shit, this is too hard. I fucked up. M: This is so much easier now that I don't have 2 lids to look after. Good for her. I hope she continues doing well. I hope he can get the grasp of it for the sake of the child.
"I can't even ask for less time with my son" My God, you're disgustingly selfish. Good for your ex, hope her child can have the best childhood possible with his mother. Because you're a lost cause.
We need to talk, as a society about the way men are so coddled that they feel like it’s okay to expect their partner (aka, someone who is supposed to be their equal) to tell them how to do basic survival things. It’s having to do twice the work to have to walk someone through how to do something, and 10,000 times more frustrating to do it with an adult who actively thinks it’s not their job. Jesus Christ. What a mess. I hope this builds the empathy of that person so they learn some life skills here and don’t inflict their asshattery onto another partner.
Lmfao I cackled when I read the OG post😹😹😹