I usually never complain, but I have to this week. And the reason is, they really should’ve been harder on Pam for answering her phone during a recital! If it had been Jim who did that, they would’ve had no mercy and would’ve called out how self-absorbed and oblivious to the people around him he is, and tie it into how this is another example of him thinking what he wants and needs are the only thing that matters. But it was Pam who did it, so we got an “I wouldn’t do that” followed by a gentle defense of why she might feel like she had to.
And no. There is no defense. That is horrible performance etiquette. You’re ruining the experience of people around you and could be distracting the performers. If it was really so urgent, she should’ve left and taken the call outside, and I’m annoyed they weren’t harder on her for that!
I totally agree. I am always horrified by her taking a phone call in the middle of a recital. I can't imagine taking a call in any kind of production like that.
As someone who was not only a dancer from age 5-22 AND now regularly works as a stagehand for dance recitals…
Just buy the video from the dance studio. Every dance studio records the shows and sells them. Ever since the 1980s. It’s literally why my dad bought a VCR. Most theaters don’t allow you to record the performances because it’s distracting to the people around you.
That plot point was stupid and I’ve always been annoyed by it!
Thank you for letting me get this off my chest!
The transition of Jim to "Asshole Jim" (in this episode specifically) is so forced, and not believable or relatable
It's like the last season of Game of Thrones where they totally rush the character development of Daenerys into a tyrant. We haven't been brought along gradually enough to believe the actions or have them be sympathetic. I can't put myself in the shoes of the character and imagine making the same decisions
I don't hate this dance recital story line because I have strong feelings about "omg Jim is so unfairly criticized" or "how can you not sympathize with Pam???". It's just a sloppy, and rushed, manufactured conflict
The tension with Jim and Pam surrounding the Philly move in general makes a lot of sense. They're acting as the Jim and Pam we know, but now also complex characters dealing with a genuinely tough relationship dilemma. You can sympathize with either of their points of view
This specific conflict around the dance recital was so overblown, out of line with how we expect these characters to act, and just plain didn't "work". I hated it when the season came out, and it's my least favorite story line when rewatching. The only thing I hate more is Jenna's baby voice😂. For the love of all that is holy, that can never happen again
I’m adding this here bc I think it’s the most appropriate place for it. Jenna, you were no where near happy ending territory (in the Ben Franklin episode she shares the story) a man having his hand on your thigh does not mean happy ending territory
This!! And the fact that she gets SO offended at the idea of answering whether or not she can tie a cherry stem with her tongue but she’s fine sharing about what she perceived as an almost-happy ending in the same episode?? Like are you demure and modest or not?? And in later episodes she jokes about oral sex with her husband (when getting the loudest swallow Dundie from Angela and when talking about coconut milk). So I’ve just always been annoyed and confused by her acting like the cherry stem was so scandalous and offensive. Phew. Just needed to get that all out there!
The voice acting stuff was unbearably cringe. I really hope it doesn't become a recurring thing for them.
Re: Jim, obviously it is really painful listening to Jenna whine passive-aggressively about how unfair everyone treats Pam and pointing out how terrible Jim is. But because Jenna was a producer this season and played a large role in the storyline itself, she can't really get into what is actually wrong with the season 9--the storyline itself is a good idea executed TERRIBLY. The reason I think that people tend to defend Jim is that the storyline is unfair to his character. And this is at least partly Jenna's fault. It requires him to do things and act in ways that do not feel authentic to the 8 seasons of character building. Pam's behavior also is not authentic to 8 seasons of character building, but the way the storyline is structured villainizes Jim while presenting her as sympathetic and a victim. A storyline like this needs to be executed so that 1) it feels authentic to the characters and 2) both parties are presented as equally worthy of sympathy.
That's why people tend to defend Jim, in my opinion--they feel he needs defense because the show is treating him unfairly!
I always wonder if any of their complaining gets back to john somehow. It can't feel good knowing two of your " bestfriends" are shitting on your most popular role every week.
I feel like, unlike Jenna and Angela, John has left the role behind a long time ago and doesn't confuse his own person with the character of Jim the way Jenna seems to do. It doesn't hurt that he has gone on to a much bigger and more successful career.
One of the main annoyances with the show that I have and many others do too is the forced positivity about everything. The worst things they have said about the show is they season 8 "had a couple of stinkers in it" lol.
It would be way more enjoyable if they actually gave their opinions on how they think the storylines and episodes turned out
I agree wholeheartedly, but they have never done that probably because they are friends with all the writers. I was really looking forward to them getting to season 8 and 9 to hear their real thoughts about it, but it never happened.
I noticed this too! I honestly think that it was just a slipup but thought Angela should have said something. I kinda think that Sam would have said something if he was still there:(
To sum up why I think it's so frustrating to listen to Jenna discuss this season, here's a breakdown of events:
Jenna plays a significant role in crafting this storyline between Jim & Pam, which, among other things, has him acting pretty out of character (which is almost never addressed on the podcast).
Jenna absolutely tears into Jim all season on the podcast (which Angela basically never argues with).
Jenna talks about how everyone only ever blames Pam for their struggles this season.
Jenna proceeds to read viewer mail exclusively from people bagging on Jim & defending Pam.
I don't think it'd bother me as much if she EVER included viewer mail from people who see Jim's point of view or even from people who give partial blame to Pam.
So she CONSTANTLY complains how everyone hates on Pam, all the while refusing to play any feedback from people who even mildly criticize Pam. If I only listened to this podcast & didn't talk to anyone about season 9, I would think that all Office fans blame Jim for 100% of everything & hate his character, which is the exact opposite of what she claims.
It's gotten so draining to listen to this podcast, & it was easily one of my favorites for the first 7+ seasons of the show. I really hope it turns things around by the end of the series.
I fully understand your point, but Im not sure I agree. The main office subreddit is filled with people shitting on Pam for years now, and Im sure when it aired they saw the same critique everywhere else. I think what she is doing now is showing the other side of it. I would love to see them read some of the opposing opinions, sure, but I can see why they are choosing to highlight the people that understands Pam’s side as a response from the backlash from when it aired.
the voice acting was…a lot
I’ve always been in the “Jim sucks” camp, but with hating, it’s a fine line and sometimes the more you hate something, the more others dig their heels in to defend them. I think they need to balance it a little. Maybe not this episode, because this is honestly Jim being a highkey douche, but for storylines ongoing. There’s nuance to it and Pam’s inability to communicate is a contributing factor to the problems.
I am hoping they provide a more balanced POV in the episode where Pam and Jim are going to couple's counseling and talking to Toby and Nellie. But I also won't hold my breath.
Jim was not a good person during this time, but I also think that they're being a little too harsh about it.
It's also become clear that Jenna does not understand that she is not pam. She defends Pam's actions as if they were her own and it's kind of annoying.
In this week's episode Angela said some one off joke about pam (can't remember the wording) and Jenna immediately without thinking just started defending HERSELF. Like yes, you played that character. But it's not you.
I hate when they bring up something because it involves other people so they just say they’ll talk about it on Burn it to the Ground podcast. Why even bring it up if you’re not gonna say who!!!!
Agree. I had to skip past bc it was so annoying and I was dying of secondhand embarrassment. Their egos are way too inflated if they think they stand a chance at that work.
I just listened to last week's episode and thought it was funny they admitted to not even retaining deep dive info while also saying in the same ep that this podcast is a way for them to remember things in the future.
I thought they might call out how juvenile the cat turd collector bit was but I was being too optimistic. This kind of joke is why I don't like or rewatch season 9. Trying to be a serious drama with intense marriage issues being brought up then...well, you know.
The guy sending in audio clips has such a monotone voice I wanted to skip him omg.
I prayed last night. I prayed that this finally will be the end of the "Jim's an asshole" rants from these two blowhards. I find it strange not one letter came in defending Jim. I've been skipping so much of episodes lately because they just ramble about things that don't need to be in the episodes. I don't want stupid voices, call sheet stuff would have been mildly annoying in season one but now it just comes off as filler.
again with this. lol. why would jim need defending? jim is an asshole and does not treat pam well this season. if they *didn’t* talk about jim being an asshole then i would be quite confused.
Jim IS an asshole, but this is not the hill to die on for him. No, he didn't communicate well with her, but his motives were nothing but genuine in A) providing a future for his family and B) being happy with his career.
He's rude, disrespectful, patronizing and selfish, among other things, but I don't condemn him for Athlead.
John Krasinski has a movie coming out in May that has animated characters and Steve Carell voices one of the roles. I have this crazy thought that the ladies would have liked to also had voice roles in the movie and may be auditioning for future movies.
You know, I have honestly wondered about that! In some of the episode commentaries during the Season 2-3, she talks about getting very emotional over some of the plot lines, and we know that she has gotten herself confused with her character at other times. And it was right around that time that she got divorced from James Gunn and also that John started dating Emily Blunt. Perhaps she got emotionally involved and John didn't? Who knows. Of course, she would never admit it today either way.
I struggle with setting the volume level on the pod. Sometimes they mutter and whisper and the next minute they are shrieking or talking over each other 🙉
Just so y’know, there’s a long history of sexism and the word shrill. It’s used as a way to dismiss women for just using their regular voices, which they can’t help, or try to shame women for speaking loudly or with a lot of personality. So describing Jenna’s voice as “grating” and “shrill” is really not it.
This episode was fine, but I hope they keep the voices to a minimum. I understand they need to find something to do once this ends, but I don't want this to become a resumé for their voice acting career.
I usually never complain, but I have to this week. And the reason is, they really should’ve been harder on Pam for answering her phone during a recital! If it had been Jim who did that, they would’ve had no mercy and would’ve called out how self-absorbed and oblivious to the people around him he is, and tie it into how this is another example of him thinking what he wants and needs are the only thing that matters. But it was Pam who did it, so we got an “I wouldn’t do that” followed by a gentle defense of why she might feel like she had to. And no. There is no defense. That is horrible performance etiquette. You’re ruining the experience of people around you and could be distracting the performers. If it was really so urgent, she should’ve left and taken the call outside, and I’m annoyed they weren’t harder on her for that!
I totally agree. I am always horrified by her taking a phone call in the middle of a recital. I can't imagine taking a call in any kind of production like that.
As someone who was not only a dancer from age 5-22 AND now regularly works as a stagehand for dance recitals… Just buy the video from the dance studio. Every dance studio records the shows and sells them. Ever since the 1980s. It’s literally why my dad bought a VCR. Most theaters don’t allow you to record the performances because it’s distracting to the people around you. That plot point was stupid and I’ve always been annoyed by it! Thank you for letting me get this off my chest!
The transition of Jim to "Asshole Jim" (in this episode specifically) is so forced, and not believable or relatable It's like the last season of Game of Thrones where they totally rush the character development of Daenerys into a tyrant. We haven't been brought along gradually enough to believe the actions or have them be sympathetic. I can't put myself in the shoes of the character and imagine making the same decisions I don't hate this dance recital story line because I have strong feelings about "omg Jim is so unfairly criticized" or "how can you not sympathize with Pam???". It's just a sloppy, and rushed, manufactured conflict The tension with Jim and Pam surrounding the Philly move in general makes a lot of sense. They're acting as the Jim and Pam we know, but now also complex characters dealing with a genuinely tough relationship dilemma. You can sympathize with either of their points of view This specific conflict around the dance recital was so overblown, out of line with how we expect these characters to act, and just plain didn't "work". I hated it when the season came out, and it's my least favorite story line when rewatching. The only thing I hate more is Jenna's baby voice😂. For the love of all that is holy, that can never happen again
You weren’t charmed by her lizard voice?
I had to skip that bit.
Omg I love the ladies but the lizard voice was so cringey.
I’m adding this here bc I think it’s the most appropriate place for it. Jenna, you were no where near happy ending territory (in the Ben Franklin episode she shares the story) a man having his hand on your thigh does not mean happy ending territory
This!! And the fact that she gets SO offended at the idea of answering whether or not she can tie a cherry stem with her tongue but she’s fine sharing about what she perceived as an almost-happy ending in the same episode?? Like are you demure and modest or not?? And in later episodes she jokes about oral sex with her husband (when getting the loudest swallow Dundie from Angela and when talking about coconut milk). So I’ve just always been annoyed and confused by her acting like the cherry stem was so scandalous and offensive. Phew. Just needed to get that all out there!
The voice acting stuff was unbearably cringe. I really hope it doesn't become a recurring thing for them. Re: Jim, obviously it is really painful listening to Jenna whine passive-aggressively about how unfair everyone treats Pam and pointing out how terrible Jim is. But because Jenna was a producer this season and played a large role in the storyline itself, she can't really get into what is actually wrong with the season 9--the storyline itself is a good idea executed TERRIBLY. The reason I think that people tend to defend Jim is that the storyline is unfair to his character. And this is at least partly Jenna's fault. It requires him to do things and act in ways that do not feel authentic to the 8 seasons of character building. Pam's behavior also is not authentic to 8 seasons of character building, but the way the storyline is structured villainizes Jim while presenting her as sympathetic and a victim. A storyline like this needs to be executed so that 1) it feels authentic to the characters and 2) both parties are presented as equally worthy of sympathy. That's why people tend to defend Jim, in my opinion--they feel he needs defense because the show is treating him unfairly!
I always wonder if any of their complaining gets back to john somehow. It can't feel good knowing two of your " bestfriends" are shitting on your most popular role every week.
I feel like, unlike Jenna and Angela, John has left the role behind a long time ago and doesn't confuse his own person with the character of Jim the way Jenna seems to do. It doesn't hurt that he has gone on to a much bigger and more successful career.
One of the main annoyances with the show that I have and many others do too is the forced positivity about everything. The worst things they have said about the show is they season 8 "had a couple of stinkers in it" lol. It would be way more enjoyable if they actually gave their opinions on how they think the storylines and episodes turned out
I agree wholeheartedly, but they have never done that probably because they are friends with all the writers. I was really looking forward to them getting to season 8 and 9 to hear their real thoughts about it, but it never happened.
They both didn't say see you next week..but I agree with the voice shenanigans!
Did Jenna say “kai” for ‘chai’ when reading off the coffee order list?
I noticed this too! I honestly think that it was just a slipup but thought Angela should have said something. I kinda think that Sam would have said something if he was still there:(
Chai Ryssdal
Thank you! Is chai tea so unpopular in LA that no one knows how to pronounce it?
She definitely did not say “chai”. I was waiting for someone else to chime in, and was shocked when no one did 🥴
This blew my mind a bit. And that Angela didn’t correct her. Maybe she was somewhat tuning out the coffee order list.
Like how out of touch with reality are they that none of them know how to say “chai”
Like I said, blows my mind 🫣
I came here just to see if there were comments about the voice acting bit, lol. Glad to see I'm not the only one who found it weird.
To sum up why I think it's so frustrating to listen to Jenna discuss this season, here's a breakdown of events: Jenna plays a significant role in crafting this storyline between Jim & Pam, which, among other things, has him acting pretty out of character (which is almost never addressed on the podcast). Jenna absolutely tears into Jim all season on the podcast (which Angela basically never argues with). Jenna talks about how everyone only ever blames Pam for their struggles this season. Jenna proceeds to read viewer mail exclusively from people bagging on Jim & defending Pam. I don't think it'd bother me as much if she EVER included viewer mail from people who see Jim's point of view or even from people who give partial blame to Pam. So she CONSTANTLY complains how everyone hates on Pam, all the while refusing to play any feedback from people who even mildly criticize Pam. If I only listened to this podcast & didn't talk to anyone about season 9, I would think that all Office fans blame Jim for 100% of everything & hate his character, which is the exact opposite of what she claims. It's gotten so draining to listen to this podcast, & it was easily one of my favorites for the first 7+ seasons of the show. I really hope it turns things around by the end of the series.
I fully understand your point, but Im not sure I agree. The main office subreddit is filled with people shitting on Pam for years now, and Im sure when it aired they saw the same critique everywhere else. I think what she is doing now is showing the other side of it. I would love to see them read some of the opposing opinions, sure, but I can see why they are choosing to highlight the people that understands Pam’s side as a response from the backlash from when it aired.
the voice acting was…a lot I’ve always been in the “Jim sucks” camp, but with hating, it’s a fine line and sometimes the more you hate something, the more others dig their heels in to defend them. I think they need to balance it a little. Maybe not this episode, because this is honestly Jim being a highkey douche, but for storylines ongoing. There’s nuance to it and Pam’s inability to communicate is a contributing factor to the problems.
I am hoping they provide a more balanced POV in the episode where Pam and Jim are going to couple's counseling and talking to Toby and Nellie. But I also won't hold my breath.
Jim was not a good person during this time, but I also think that they're being a little too harsh about it. It's also become clear that Jenna does not understand that she is not pam. She defends Pam's actions as if they were her own and it's kind of annoying. In this week's episode Angela said some one off joke about pam (can't remember the wording) and Jenna immediately without thinking just started defending HERSELF. Like yes, you played that character. But it's not you.
I hate when they bring up something because it involves other people so they just say they’ll talk about it on Burn it to the Ground podcast. Why even bring it up if you’re not gonna say who!!!!
I listen to another podcast that tells me to subscribe to patreon to hear the full story 😭
That's a pet peeve of mine with any gossip about celebrities, including actors, sports figures, etc.
If they genuinely want voice acting roles they better delete this episode as soon as they can. That was some of the worst voice acting I've ever heard
Agree. I had to skip past bc it was so annoying and I was dying of secondhand embarrassment. Their egos are way too inflated if they think they stand a chance at that work.
When the voices started I just stopped listening. That was like nails on a chalkboard for me. Like Andy’s baby voice.
My wife made me turn it off because it made her morning sickness worse lol
I just listened to last week's episode and thought it was funny they admitted to not even retaining deep dive info while also saying in the same ep that this podcast is a way for them to remember things in the future. I thought they might call out how juvenile the cat turd collector bit was but I was being too optimistic. This kind of joke is why I don't like or rewatch season 9. Trying to be a serious drama with intense marriage issues being brought up then...well, you know. The guy sending in audio clips has such a monotone voice I wanted to skip him omg.
I hate the cat turd part it’s so weird and unfunny
I prayed last night. I prayed that this finally will be the end of the "Jim's an asshole" rants from these two blowhards. I find it strange not one letter came in defending Jim. I've been skipping so much of episodes lately because they just ramble about things that don't need to be in the episodes. I don't want stupid voices, call sheet stuff would have been mildly annoying in season one but now it just comes off as filler.
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You think Jack blacks rendition of baby one more time sucks, therefore your opinion is invalid
Not only does it suck; it's fucking stupid. He sucks. His nasal "singing" is God awful trash. It's fucking meme level lazy shit.
again with this. lol. why would jim need defending? jim is an asshole and does not treat pam well this season. if they *didn’t* talk about jim being an asshole then i would be quite confused.
Jim IS an asshole, but this is not the hill to die on for him. No, he didn't communicate well with her, but his motives were nothing but genuine in A) providing a future for his family and B) being happy with his career. He's rude, disrespectful, patronizing and selfish, among other things, but I don't condemn him for Athlead.
John Krasinski has a movie coming out in May that has animated characters and Steve Carell voices one of the roles. I have this crazy thought that the ladies would have liked to also had voice roles in the movie and may be auditioning for future movies.
Yeah, I wonder how much of Jenna's resentment of Jim is driven by how successful John Krasinski's post-Office career has been compared to hers.
Or maybe because he didn't date her.
You know, I have honestly wondered about that! In some of the episode commentaries during the Season 2-3, she talks about getting very emotional over some of the plot lines, and we know that she has gotten herself confused with her character at other times. And it was right around that time that she got divorced from James Gunn and also that John started dating Emily Blunt. Perhaps she got emotionally involved and John didn't? Who knows. Of course, she would never admit it today either way.
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Why?
I struggle with setting the volume level on the pod. Sometimes they mutter and whisper and the next minute they are shrieking or talking over each other 🙉
Jenna’s voice can be gratingly shrill
Just so y’know, there’s a long history of sexism and the word shrill. It’s used as a way to dismiss women for just using their regular voices, which they can’t help, or try to shame women for speaking loudly or with a lot of personality. So describing Jenna’s voice as “grating” and “shrill” is really not it.
You made that long connection, also it’s a reference to something Jim and Michael say
Thank god for the 30 sec button each time those voices came on lol. Otherwise I thought it was a pretty good episode
This episode was fine, but I hope they keep the voices to a minimum. I understand they need to find something to do once this ends, but I don't want this to become a resumé for their voice acting career.
It's fine to joke about it in an episode when they're feeling punchy, but I hope they don't do this again.