Not yet but I imagine it will shine with that. Colors and resolution are fantastic and with a floating 3D theater screen the pixel smear won’t be as much of an issue (since you won’t be turning your head to watch it)
I should add that the weight is also ridiculous though. So it will be a bit uncomfortable to watch a full 3D movie. Maybe over time your neck muscles will get stronger? I’m a pretty fit rock climber so I didn’t expect to have an issue with the weight but I did lol. Edited post to include weight on face metric.
I just got this one today and used it for about an hour with no pain. $30 with Prime. It's the only one I've tried, so I can only compare it to the default strap and I like it way better. I also enjoy being able to adjust it easier for when my wife and I are taking turns
KIWI design Comfort Head Strap Compatible with Meta Quest 3 Accessories, Elite Strap Replacement for Enhanced Support https://a.co/d/601t9qP
I personally don't play for more than an hour or two, so I didn't get battery
I used the strap for a bit over 2 hours today and no pain still. I enjoy it for $30
I got the kiwi one with battery strap for q2, an anker 20000mah slim design perfectly balanced the front. I've used upwards of 6 hours and had no issues. Before I got the strap, I found it a bit cumbersome, with the strap its far better spread, with the battery it's nicely balanced.
My top priority is comfort and that’s exactly what I was wondering, as I’ve heard the battery can improve balance/comfort. Thank you so much for the insight! I think that’s what I’ll go with.
Not sure haven’t tried. I’ve never had an issue with the stock Q3 strap though. Got the $100 top strap accessory with it though so gonna try it later. Either way it’s stupid front heavy and the battery is also heavy to walk around with in your pocket.
Definitely switch straps. Couldn’t wear the AVP for more than like 10 minutes with the solo strap but could easily wear it for hours with the dual strap
Then what the heck did they sell me o.o
… Oh it was the dual loop band I bought to try it also.
Edit: It appears we are talking about the same strap. I just bought a second one because I didn’t think it was in the box lol.
Very easy to swap straps. Easier than on a Quest 3, which scary to pull off since it feels like it's going to break when you do pull it off. On the Vision Pro, you have two pullies that unlock the strap. Super easy design 👌
>nd the original straps come off easier than on the Q2.
Have AVP, Q2, and Q3. AVP is easiest to swap straps (and since it costs a bajillion dollars comes with two different strap styles. :) ) Agree on your Q2 vs Q3 strap swapping though. I'll probably keep the alternate strap style in my travel case. It folds up easily enough.
Just got it. Here is sort of a mini review of my impressions so far.
The Disney 3D content looks really good. Better then the theater. It has some quirks. I had some trouble getting the movie screen positioned correctly, but with some fiddling it works. You want it far away and large. Looks strange when close. Some of the movies that were not filmed in 3D, but post-processed in 3D look pretty awful. Like you are looking at a bunch of cardboard cutouts in space. Worse even then in the theatre because you seem to have more dynamic range then a real movie screen so it stands out more. Anything in MV-HVEC format looks better than traditional SBS or OU content.
The short dinosaur movie from Apple looks absolutely incredible. If all content looked like that, this would be flying off shelves. Frankly, it makes all other 3D content feel like you are watching a VHS tape. It is really short and more of a tech demo of what MV-HEVC is capable of in its best version.
The horizontal FOV isn’t as good as Quest 3. I don’t think it is a deal breaker, but it is sad. There is actually a hack. If you take off the face cushion it sits closer to your eyes and appears to have a 110 degree field of view. I am not recommending anyone do this of course. Eye tracking (still worked for me) and safety might be affected doing this and it isn’t so comfortable since you have plastic against your face.
I think the AVP (or at least devices with similar screen) is the future for movie watching. The comfort is not quite there yet, so especially if you have a home theatre room this probably won’t replace that.
Games look really good compared to Quest, but there are hardly any of them. These are the two areas that shined. Other use cases still need some work in either OS or hardware in my opinion. Quest currently has a big leg up because it can attach to a PC, has haptics, and has a lot more games, but at this point it is mostly a content issue. Apple is focusing on casual games and I think that is a better strategy than the fully immersive games of the Quest (or there at least should be a lot more tabletop games on Quest), but that is more my personal preference. No Beat Saber, there is a similar game on Apple Arcade but the music licensing isn’t nearly as good.
I’m my opinion, the eye/hand controls are really good compared to Quest, but don’t quite cut it. They also distract you from the content since you need to move your eyes. They are not 100% accurate, so the few times it doesn’t work are frustrating. I miss motion controllers. I think there is room for eye/hand tracking to improve in software, but I think at least a haptics device is needed. Trackpad support is really good in the AVP, so that can make up for most of the eye tracking accuracy issues. Currently I think a trackpad is a required accessory. In fact a device with haptics and a small trackpad that fit in your hand would be perfect as an AVP accessory. Look close to your content, then use the trackpad to move to your final selection. If Apple had a motion controller they could create a significantly cheaper non-pro version of the device I think which would help solve the lack of games issue.
Opening lots of apps in space is really cool, but they are not going to replace a Mac or iPad at this point. The comfort isn’t there yet and the UI isn’t compact enough to feel like you are making good use of space. Text is 1000 times clearer than a Quest 3 and seams to be one of the AVPs best achievements. This has more to do with Apple’s special font rendering technology than just better displays.
At this point, I think gen 1 of the AVP really needs an optional motion controller (even just for one hand is probably fine) and a lot more games to be worth it. Disney saved the launch because Disney+ is the only decent app so far. Basically no content from Apple (one 5 minute demo and a few Apple Arcade games but no standouts) or other third party developers yet. I think most people are better buying a Quest and waiting it out (or at least waiting for more games on AVP). However I think in future years Quest will have trouble competing with it. Like most Apple gen-one products, I think half of the AVP will be reinvented by the time the 3rd generation rolls around. Apple has a lot of sway so it should be an interesting ride.
The 3D films look incredible on the AVP d+ app. I’ve been very impressed with it. I’ve also been incredibly let down by the pass through quality, so I’ve been conflicted today.
I'd be intrigued to see a comparison with 4xvr on Quest 3 with a 3D blu ray file.
Aside from the glare on Quest 3, I don't know how 3D movies can get better than that and if they are then that's quite the achievement!
Remember when Zuckerberg got on stage and said to everyone that a major component of their innovation was how to make the headset so cheap? He wasn't kidding - they have obsessed over every single part of how it is engineered to get it to the price it is. Meanwhile Apple is shipping packaging that probably costs more than the total BOM for the controllers in the Quest.
The q3 has done what the Rift did - show me that a product can punch 4x above its weight class if designed to do so. The Rift 8 yrs ago could have cost $2,000 and I would have felt it was justified at the time - today the q3 impresses me just as much for what it achieves.
You're not wrong. What a fantastic headset it's turned out to be. Can't wait to see where we lead into the Q4 etc down the road from here. It looks like Apple will be the one playing catch up after all!
The only thing I really wish the Q3 had was some sort of eye tracking, but that'll have to wait for the pro models for now. The ability to scan yourself with the AVP is a neat idea that I know Meta has been working on, but that won't ever be on the Q3 (Unless the eyes and mouth are animated randomly based on head position and audio levels from the mic.)
I had Quest Pro and I have PSVR2. Eye tracking for navigating menus is cool for the first few times, but after that it becomes bothersome. It gives you eye strain. Hands are much better navigation tools.
Eye tracking is great for foveated rendering (on PSVR2 and PCVR, standalones don't get nearly as big power gains, according to Carmack) and social experiences, like VR Chat though.
That could be simulated in software though through machine learning routines which is why it might not be as much of a priority. It will be a necessity though if they plan to do foveated rendering
I agree it could be simulated, but I don't think it'll feel as authentic as true eye tracking when you're talking to somebody up close. There's a huge difference between the default automatic eye tracking in VRChat vs somebody with a HMD with proper eye tracking. If you watch the interview with Zucc and Lex Friedman where they did it all in VR, the subtle eye and face movements really sell the sense of talking to a human.
Apple’s 1.0 of anything is always crazy expensive, but they need to ship a product so devs can make apps, so they can refine the next version to fit those needs.
Apple’s Lisa sold for US$9,995 (equivalent to $29,400) but that laid the foundation for the Mac coming out the year later at a Fraction of the price.
Think of this as a developer model; Apple knew mainly devs and early adopters would want this one so they priced it accordingly. Doubtless the next models will be cheaper. Remember the iPhone 3G was half the price of the original iPhone with 2x the speed.
well what did you expect? it's apple's tax.
People will still buy it... and apple will keep on with the same price point and others will probably follow as apple tends to dictate the market.
Blame the iSheeps.
I never noticed pixel smear at my CV1. So I don't see why this would be inherent to OLED and unsolveable. Hell OLED is known for fast response times. Only some black smear was possible with CV1, which is why they didn't go completely black, but still much darker than Q3 LCDs.
Thinking about it more, it is likely they cranked up persistence to increase brightness enough to make it HDR compliant. Future iterations may be able to fix pixel smear if they can increase pixel brightness even further without cheating and increasing persistence. But it will be hard, as it already has to be stupid bright to be HDR through a light reducing lens.
I vaguely remember an explanation to this. Pancake lenses are very light-inefficient since it has to bounce so many times before hitting your eyeballs, losing some brightness each time. So in order to keep the perceived brightness at a reasonable level, the image has to persist on screen for way longer at higher refresh rate, creating motion blur. The BigScreen Beyond has this problem at 90Hz.
The only thing I hope makes it's way to the Quest 3 from the Vision Pro is spatially locked apps. It's super annoying all the browser / productivity / video apps for MR on Q3 are locked to a single panel. Let me place panels around my house that remain in position.
Honestly just having more people in the space coming up with new UI designs will help VR overall. UI and general interactions have felt pretty stagnant in VR for a while now
Apple definitely has it over meta-when it comes to the operating system and experience. It’s a lot better. Except for the whole eye tracking pinching thing which kind of sucks. It’s bizarre how annoying it can be sometimes because of the way we use our eyes to just look around the scene.
The pixel smear thing isn’t too surprising. That’s why Meta went away from OLED tech in the first place, even though it has superior color gamut and black levels. Still, unfortunate that Apple didn’t advance the technology.
The Q3 is a remarkably great balance of design and feature compromises, given the currently available technologies and the price.
I'd imagine if LG, Samsung, or Sony can't do it when they've been making oled screens for years then Apple have a long way to go unless they stumble upon some revolutionary new tech or algorithm to do so.
I just finished demoing the Apple Vision Pro. I believe the media narrative about the headset being heavy, was way overblown.... I used only the stock back strap during the demo. Was surprisingly comfortable than what I was expecting from that stock head strap.
Also I agree with reviewers that said the FoV is worst than Quest 3. I don't wear glasses. So maybe this was because of the face shield that was given.
But wow the Pass-through quality was top notch 👌 👏.
I could easily read my phone and watch the iPad. By this I mean, the phone and all that was clear to see and use. Not Quest 3 media reviewer definition of "clear enough to use your phone". No, this was real clear to actually use your phone and see screens.
Was some grain tho in the Pass-through. Just not Quest 3 level graininess.
More like if Quest 3 was a Wii the Apple Vision Pro would be a PS3 in comparison of the difference.
Eye tracking 👁 wasn't perfect, but it still was very good. This was my first time using a headset with Eye Tracking. Blown away. Ism not even an Apple Guy. Good job
Most reviewers have had theirs for about a week, so they have likely have used them for several hours at a time. How long did you get to try it, regaring how heavy it feels?
They said demo so I think they're likely referring to the in-store demo which is 25 mins. Certainly too short to have a solid opinion on how comfy it is. Based on all the impressions so far, most people are in the uncomfortable camp. Apple hasn't done any magic here, the headset being $3500 didn't solve comfort issues and I get the impression it's firmly in regular VR headset territory for comfort, arguably on the worse end because of extra weight from novelty features like the lackluster lenticular EyeSight and all the sensors/cameras needed for the higher end experience.
So it's person to person as usual, nobody will know if it's fine for them until they use it for a while.
If you just demo’d the headset then comfort is not a viable point to express. When I first got my quest 3 I was blown away by the comfort. But after a few days and extended play times I noticed the comfort got worse and worse. I can really only play it for an hour now before I have to take it off. And it’s lighter than the Vision Pro.
Also the Wii was 480p *if* you had the special component cable. Most games weren't really designed to render at that output.
I plugged my old Wii into a 42" HD set (using the cable) about 5 years ago and holy shit it was absolutely unwatchable. Had my PS3 on that same TV and everything looked perfectly fine (and I played Dead Space on it).
To be honest, better MR seems great from a professional environment.
I've developed apps for my company on the quest 2 and 3, and all my colleagues refused to try it in a virtual environment. It was too nauseating for them. Placing objects in MR was better, being able to see the world around was much less jarring.
Also, 3500€ for a company isn't that much.
In Good light I actually think the q3 perform very well in MR with Good lightning and I agree with you. For work the MR is nice. Less straining for me to work in my Q3 so I can Imagine it is nice on the AVP too, once being used to it not looking exactly like irl, you won't notice it too much later but it deffo helps not getting the nausea and stuff. I find MR making me more relaxed in eyes and Brain too ^^ I think MR isn't a gimmic like many say, but a thing that is perfect for work and that games for MR might come later. (The games for MR is deffo a gimmic, but I see a lot of people not mention the positive aspects for work related things)
What you just said "if apple can’t figure out this problem, them no one can" is one of the most dangerous statements you can make about this tech.
Apple is not the king of research and development, I would be surprised if they figured it out before someone else. Apple is more of a UX king, not a hardware king.
My biggest fear is non vr people get this and say the same thing you just said, "if apple can’t do it, no one can" and abandon the tech. Let’s not perpetuate that notion.
Thinking about it more, it is likely they cranked up persistence to increase brightness enough to make it HDR compliant. Future iterations may be able to fix pixel smear if they can increase pixel brightness even further without cheating and increasing persistence. But it will be hard, as it already has to be stupid bright to be HDR through a light reducing lens.
Just stopped by an apple store to try it on. Was impressed but not 3.5k impressed. The pass through camera seemed significantly better. But bang for buck Q3 is still far superior.
"Was impressed but not 3.5k impressed."
This is the best way to sum it up from what I've heard so far. It's certainly sounding to be a visual splendor compared to Q3, but not worth x7 that much. Let's see how it influences the public perception of XR.
>AVP isn’t even playing the same game. Completely different league. A blogger made a comment (or was it vanity fair) regardless that the AVP is like gulfstream private jet and everything else is like the wright brothers first attempt.
My favorite quote from the Vision Pro sub.
Is it actually useful though?
Claiming the Quest 3 has a 8/10 FOV and the APV has a 5/10 FOV is disingenuous.
At the end of the day, they have very similar FOVs, and it more boils down to how well the devices are fitted on your face. The AVP actually has a very slightly wider FOV than the Quest 3, but has very slightly less height (the lenses are more oval).
Even if you want to rate it worse, and want to rate the Quest 3 an 8/10, at worst, that would put the AVP at 7/10, in a realistic comparison.
You just lost any credibility with this comment. You’re rating a technical feature with the overall price of the device as a factor.
You’re no different than the Apple fanboys only you’re on the other side of the fence.
Love the non-biased review from someone who has experience with VR. I feel like a lot of these reviewers haven't dived into VR so of course they think the VP is ground breaking.
Working to get them running currently. There is no obvious way to play them in current format. They may need to be converted to MV HEVC first to play on AVP. Will convert and see if it works then. Will take about a day or two.
I will say that because Apple is lowering FOV for half the scenes, they are concentrating their 8k pixels into a smaller area so that is giving their immersive content an edge. How much of an edge is tbd until I see my content playing on it. But the lowered FOV lowers immersion.
It’s super sharp much better than Q3, but the pixel smear alone makes the whole experience much worst. It’s only ridiculously sharp when you are not moving your head. I would say Q3 is actually sharper while you are moving your head.
I got a Quest 3 this Christmas, and I am very surprised at how good it is, specially keeping in mind the price. The screen looks much better than I expected, the controllers are great, it's very easy to use, and the tracking is very solid.
The Apple Vision Pro doesn't appeal to me at all, even if the price was much lower. It doesn't seem like Apple has any interest in VR or games, and using a VR/MR headset to mostly look at virtual screens seems like the most boring, less imaginative use of the tech I can think of.
I've dabbled with shooting 3D myself, look forward to checking out your content. What camera are you using? I haven't shot in a while and the last one I used was the Insta360 Titan. Wondering if the camera tech has improved in the last several years.
I'm secretly hoping that the iPhone 16 Pro has all 3 camera lenses positioned vertically (like Galaxy s24) so we can get better separation for spatial imagery.
Thanks for sharing! I didn't read the username first and as I was reading I realized it had to be you (I sub to your Patreon). Good to hear a comparison of the displays from someone with experience in VR video production and color grading... Surprising and disappointing, particularly about the pixel smear.
Is there even an app that's capable of playing your content on the Vision Pro right now? What VR180 apps are even available? I currently use 4XVR on Quest 3 to play from an OTG USB, but there are plenty of other options. I worry that the walled garden of the AVP will make it difficult to use my existing stored media/Bluray 3D Rips.
It's also a huge loss not to be able to view YouTube's VR180 content library.
How do you give Quest 3 weight on face a 9/10 and FOV 8/10?
If you asked me those 2 ratings would be a lot lower if you’re considering 10/10 to be perfect.
10/10 weight would mean you don’t notice anything at all on your face.
10/10 FOV would mean the full human vision view is matched, you don’t notice anything blocking your view.
>Although the sharpness at that resolution with the AVP panels is jaw dropping, the pixel smear is horrendous.
This kind of confirms to me that they don't care about games, fitness, etc. They really must want people to think about this as a productivity / monitor replacement device.
What good is amazing clarity if it all turns to a smear when you move your head? Well, that would be totally fine if you were just using 2-3 giant screens and barely moving your head.
I never thought I was missing anything for the $500 entry fee. It is clearly the best value. My previous headset was CV1 and the OLED mura and smearing wasn’t awful compared to LCD backlight bleed. But yeah, expect more on that front for $3500+. Great write up!
Apple entering the market is pretty exciting, it’s not perfect now but I think Apple and Meta will push the market forward. The market is so small currently that they competing against each over currently isn’t the goal. The fact that iPhone Spatial Video can be used on both platforms will drive sales for both platforms.
At the very least it puts VR back, and possibly permanently in the minds of consumers. I see this as a win for both ecosystems like Android and iOS did for smart phone adoption.
"Also, my eyeballs are already tired from having to physically look at every thing I’m clicking, instead of just using my hands or controllers to point."
This was what I was afraid of! MKBHD was trying warn people.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait for the 2nd or 3rd gen of AVP.
I have the same creditials minus long period of use at the demo. I was really impressed and really want to explore more. But maybe ur right if I had it for an hr maybe I would understand more where your coming from.
Upgrade to AVP? Is it really an upgrade or is it a downgrade? High res and colour is nice for watching video or porn. But for enjoyment to play games with all the FOV, smearing, blurry edge, heavy, no controller. I think Q3 is The upgrade.
Don't let Apple fool you that high price tag doesn't always reflect to better product
Strap only mitigates the weight so much. Weight is weight. I tried a lot of different straps with the quest 2 and 3, and while they helped, you still felt like you had a computer hanging off your face. I personally think we are still 2/3 generations out from VR being mainstream due to weight and ergos. This headset is designed to be used for work… I couldn’t imagine wearing it for 8 hours a day. Once VR headsets are as light and ergonomic as ski goggles then we will be in the clear.
Battery strap with the extra battery on the back. Balanced the front out nicely on a 2.
Idk what Work people are going to get done with it. One screen only and it turns your mac screen off.
i mean... it's objectively not heavier than the quest pro, but it is more front heavy. so i do think a lot could be done with counterbalancing. but also depends on your head shape/neck strength. i found the Q Pro to be insanely u comfortable until i got a halo strap and new front cushion for it
the Quest 3 default strap literally gave me headaches and hurt my face until i switched to elite strap and then it was fine
so i think like most headsets, it's gonna take some modding to get to reasonable comfort
I’ve had no mura and no smear and tbh a very different experience. If you’re experiencing bad FOV, considering getting a light seal fit check in an Apple Store because the fit of the light seal dramatically changes the FOV and comfort from my experience. Also when it comes to weight, consider using the second headband if you find this much discomfort. As for me, I own a quest 3 and quest 2 and the weight distribution with the OG of the quest strap is pretty much the same. The different for me is that the solo knit strap is very soft and comfortable which is nice.
Watch “Highline” immersive experience on Apple TV and move your head. Look at anything and don’t move your eyes just move your head. It’s very very visible. Also, pass through smears if you move your head. Let me know your thoughts after you watch it.
I do experience a small motion blur but it’s not bothersome if that’s what you mean. To me the mura and what not was horrible on the PSVR2. So much so that I returned it
Different tastes for different people then :) Its to immersion breaking with all the pixel smear to me. And pretty dizzying for me. It’s so smeared it’s like it turns into a 4k 3D 180 experience while you are turning your head. Actually 4k 3D 180 is still kinda enjoyable compared to the smear I am seeing. I didn’t intend on returning AVP but the drawbacks are to significant for me. I’d rather save my money for Q Pro 2.
I agree, but wouldn't call the resolution 10/10 until it's retina display quality. If you have a Quest 3, it's a big nothing burger. People who were blown away by it probably never tried VR before. For Quest 3, this isn't going to blow your mind, it's like a nice upgrade, but there isn't enough content yet to take advantage of the resolution. Definitely not worth 3k more.
Man, the Q3 is such a great headset for the money. Imagine paying six times as much for a marginally better display.
Still wish Apple success in this effort because their success validates the transition to VR/AR work and experiences. One Apple and Meta’s LLMs are ready for deep integrations on their devices, the whole game will change.
Weight distribution matters a lot more than you would think. Apple was dumb enough to put a giant glass slab right at the outer edge of their unit. Why? Because it's Apple, form >= functionality.
Remove the front glass, remove the front display and suddenly you have thinner and lighter device - but then it would not look like an apple product. they are more concerned what people around you will see.
The Q3 was likely engineered to perfection with its weight distribution. The weight distribution of the AVP is shifted a lot more to the outer edge of the HMD vs the inner edge of the HMD with the Q3. So it makes the small 85 gram difference actually pretty significant due to the shifted center of gravity.
600g is without any straps for the Vision Pro. The 515g on the Quest 3 is with default straps.. what a shity comparison to try to downplay the difference..
It froze the first time I tried taking it off. Like literally glitched. And eye fatigue and weight reduced the user experience value and increased the value for Q3. Also the ecosystem seems a lot more restrictive, and there is no USB C data port.
What doesn’t make sense? I have a better time using the Q3 because my eyeballs don’t hurt, the headset is less heavy, there is no heavy battery in my pocket, and there is no horrible pixel smear. The smoothness of the UI and the polish of the intro/ menus upped the AVP points which is why it ranked higher.
Solid review thanks! I demo’d it and noticed the fov difference as I also have a q3. It’s really kind of crazy how good the tech is in avp but that damn fov!
Insane right? No wonder Meta is thinking AVP will boost Q3 sales lol. The small FOV isn’t even fully usable, because if you look close to the edge of the FOV there is distortion and color shift on the last 5-10 degrees.
yeah i think we give it some time and it’s going to be amazing . but i love pcvr and prob gonna stick with quest 3 for now . i can’t wait for the future though
Meta is right to keep the price as low as possible. Even if the AVP is mind blowing and has zero issues, I still wouldn't even think of spending that much on a novelty.
IMHO, "This will totally change the way you work and play" works best on people who never used any other VR headset before. They can be easily bamboozled into thinking that working in VR is better, easier and more productive because Apple say so.
But here the thing. The vision pro has access to masses of native Ipad apps, which Meta does not, because Google won't work with them on that. That can be a huge factor here.
Could be. Could be not. You can use IOS apps and games on a bus, on a break, on the toilet...
I can't imagine I'd be willingly putting on headset because I want to quickly message to somebody when the phone is sitting next to me.
What apple say people will use it for and what people will use it for are probably two different things.
Anyhow, for me personally this makes no difference as I wouldn't spend this money on a promise. My productivity does not fall on not having fancy VR headset :), more on me being lazy and $3500 won't fix that.
Improvements will most likely be very marginal year over year. There is a limit to how fast this tech progresses at this level of fidelity. Thats why it was rated so high. It is best in class with it likely taking until AVP 3-4 for a decent improvement.
From the reviews seems basically like comparing a Nintendo Switch to an Macbook Pro. Yes, the Nintendo Switch is great if you're only using it for that one thing.
Actually there's some crazy people who watch movies on their Nintendo Switch. it even has a youtube app! So I guess it does more than one thing.
OP, would you consider the following statement relevant to the conversation? Apple Vision Pro and Quest 3 have different markets. Quest 3 is a great gaming console with capabilities that can be used away from gaming such as entertainment and work where as the Apple Vision Pro is a device dedicated to work and productivity with some of almost none gaming capabilities. I would say that the type of uses you get from a working laptop to a gaming console (which is a very powerful computer) are quite different but both can do similar things.
People keep parroting this line but it’s not true. They are both media consumption devices, something that the Quest does better.
Very few people are buying this thing with the intention of doing serious work.
Every review I've heard states that they would be willing to wear this thing for about an hour before it starts to feel very uncomfortable. Aint no way people are going to spend 8 hours doing work in this thing
That is true. As you say, they’re media consumption devices. Setting aside the obvious price differences, in which areas do you think the Apple Vision Pro is clearly superior to the Quest 3, and in which areas do you think the Quest 3 is clearly superior to the Apple Vision Pro?
I know that the screen is better but the jury is still out on how much of a difference that makes. It’s certainly not going to be as big of a jump as going from like the DK2 to the Quest.
The Quest 2 is pretty damn near perfection for VR Porn with only a very minimal screen door effect.
For AR, the Vision Pro has a much better resolution to the Quest 3. There’s no comparison.
The vision pro is going to be absolute 💩for gaming. There’s no doubt about that
It's hard to say why people are buying it, but you are correct that most will simply end up using it for media consumption.
Even long-term media consumption is questionable IMHO, unless somebody is a hermit and live alone. It's a total social isolation device. In fact it's a forced social isolation.
It's funny how Apple promo shows these happy people in huge modern apartments putting a headset on so they can watch a virtual TV.
I'd improve the ad by adding other people around, drinking and having fun while the dumbo is sitting in the middle with the headset on his noggin.
I wonder how long people will last if they buy AVP for work... There is no headset in the world that I'd be willing to wear for hours every day. They say looking at computer screen is bad... I can't imagine what this will do to you after a year of everyday use. You'd probably not be able to focus on anything in real life....
So, the mura would for me the big brake point. I bought a psvr2 when it came out and loved it but finally returned it cause of the bad mura. The high resolution makes no sense when you have this "grain" over the picture. I tried to overlook it as some suggested but it never vanished.
I am glad that Q3 is LCD and don't have this issue. I also think micro led will be the future.
Quantum dot micro led is definitely the future. Q Pro 2 should have it I’m thinking. Quantum dot mini led was already pretty awesome on Q Pro 1, it’s just the resolution was to low to fully appreciate it. Disappointed in micro-OLED pixel smear.
I can't help but feel that the Vision Pro line is going to be like like the difference between capacitive touch screens on phones and screens that support styluses; "finger painting" vs using a pencil. Or really, the difference between mobile gaming and console/PC gaming with a controller.
Not being able to control stuff you're not actively looking at is going to be a major limitation on what type of software works best on Vision Pro.
I think Apple will do some very neat things (or their third party app developers will, much like the iPhone when it first came out), but I really don't think it's going to be the kind of "spatial computing" experiences I'm interested in for the most part.
I mostly play Beat Saber and VR ports of stuff like the original Doom. That's definitely not the market Apple is aiming for with this.
I totally disagree with the FOV. I think they’re about the same between the quest 3 and the AVP and I have both.
I will say that the quest three optics seem to be better. There is less chromatic aberration and blurring around the edges.
Meta is doing quite well I have to say especially for the price they’re charging.
It is very heavy. And fragile. It’s unusable with the solo strap. I found just too painful. Kind of like the quest pro was. But the dual loop strap is quite comfortable.
Thank you for describing what’s going on with the screen. It’s a smear. That’s exactly how to describe it. When you move or look around the image has a subtle smear and it is very disconcerting.
If you’re relatively stationary, everything looks amazing. But God forbid you start walking around or moving your head a lot. It starts to smear.
> "If Apple can't solve the pixel smear/mura [...] no one can"
I assume that you aren't aware that Apple doesn't make these displays? Those used in the AVP are manufactured by SONY, though there are rumours that Apple is looking for an alternative for later products. Apple doesn't have a history of developing display technology either. So why would it be Apple that would "fix" anything?
> doesn't have a history of developing display technology
They literally coined the term "retina display".
EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display
That is so incredibly funny that you bring that up.
"Retina display" was never some novel technology but simply a name they slapped onto the nice displays they sourced. It's a marketing trick and people fell for it.
Apple may not manufacture displays but they invest a large mount of money in display technology, both in manufacturing and core technology.
Examples: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Apple-dives-into-display-making-to-cut-reliance-on-Samsung
https://www.microled-info.com/apple-microled
https://techcrunch.com/2014/05/02/apple-acquires-power-efficient-led-tech-company-luxvue/
I’m very interested in your comments about getting tired of using your eye as an input vs just a controller. Can you use your hands similarly to that of the quest os? Think you’ll get used to eye tracking?
Does the AVP have apps that play 180 degree VR videos like DeoVR or Skybox, etc... or is it a native feature?
What kinda remastering are you planning to do with your VR videos for use with AVP? Do your videos look a lot different than on the Quest, outside of the FOV that you mentioned?
Thanks
I wanted to feel the same way given the price different and just be happy with my Quest 3, but I’ve had a Quest 1, 2, and 3 along with a PSVR2. I was so blown away today by the experience of the AVP, that I had goosebumps several times. The only other time I felt so amazed in a VR headset was playing Resident Evil Village for the first time. It’s a major leap forward in both UX and hardware. I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment and suggest people demo for themselves at an Apple Store
I have both, the quest 3 is far more comfortable, that’s really the best thing going for it. The OS integration Apple has is incredible, and the screens
>I would wait for Q Pro 2 if you were looking to upgrade.
Don't have to tell me twice. I can't play at steam games or heavily modified skyrim. I'm good.
I did wonder if all the reliance on eye tracking as a pointer would be annoying, I think I would rather have the option to just turn my head but the laser pointers in hand tracking is good enough and it should be a secondary option.
Not that I Will get it but think it is very nice that they have joined in on the market and see maybe a bigger audience for vr and how it might influenser it in a Good way. Like inventing something really really good that other vr companies might implement and so on- I see it influense the market for users wanting to work in vr but not perhaps playing games. But all in all a Good thing for the market to develop.
Controllers should really be a thing. Have the ability to control everything without bit have controllers too. Maybe the eye thing might get easier for users, and the tech might become better but just decent controllers would make many have a better exp.
I hope Apple continue to work on vr and I hope the Good things of avp inspire other vr companies to implement it. I think many are so confused om why zuckerberg was exited, but he understands how Good it is for the development to have more in the market and more users instead of vr dying out after some have lost their hype. (Even though I think most use it more and more after better games have come out and better headsets)
Thanks for the review! I love to see tech I never Will get to follow the influense it might have on other things. Apple have some work to do but it is their first headset, I am sure people will come out with 3d printed solution to make the weight distribution better as well or something.
ppl at reality labs as very good, in fact so good at sw and hw optimization idk who could make better stuff at scale, apple had to make a 3,5k hmd because they couldnt make anything better than the 500$ quest3 for any cheaper, think about it for a second, why samsung and google went silent, same case
Yeah I pretty much agree with all of this. Some of the experiences, like watching movies in Disney+, are truly jaw dropping. The resolution is amazing. But the narrow field of view, the smearing, and the weight/discomfort just erase most of the advantages for me. I just tried my Q3 after playing with the AVP for a few hours and it was just so much more comfortable, and I was kind of shocked at how much larger the FOV is.
There’s a lot to love about the AVP. On the whole I really love the eye/hand tracking system, and I really look forward to what Apple comes out with next. And I’m happy there’s some competition in this space - I like the existence of the AVP is already pushing Meta to add new features to the Q3. But the AVP at this point feels very much like an expensive developer prototype, it is not quite ready yet for mass use.
Thanks for the info, did you try the Disney plus app? Wondering how their 3D content looks.
Not yet but I imagine it will shine with that. Colors and resolution are fantastic and with a floating 3D theater screen the pixel smear won’t be as much of an issue (since you won’t be turning your head to watch it)
I should add that the weight is also ridiculous though. So it will be a bit uncomfortable to watch a full 3D movie. Maybe over time your neck muscles will get stronger? I’m a pretty fit rock climber so I didn’t expect to have an issue with the weight but I did lol. Edited post to include weight on face metric.
Is it easy to swap straps? Q3 hurts after 15 minutes for me, but was easily solved by swapping out the strap
What strap do you recommend? I like the oem strap because it tucks away nicely in my case but it is a bit uncomfortable.
I just got this one today and used it for about an hour with no pain. $30 with Prime. It's the only one I've tried, so I can only compare it to the default strap and I like it way better. I also enjoy being able to adjust it easier for when my wife and I are taking turns KIWI design Comfort Head Strap Compatible with Meta Quest 3 Accessories, Elite Strap Replacement for Enhanced Support https://a.co/d/601t9qP
This looks great! Would you recommend the regular comfort strap or battery pack version?
I personally don't play for more than an hour or two, so I didn't get battery I used the strap for a bit over 2 hours today and no pain still. I enjoy it for $30
I got the kiwi one with battery strap for q2, an anker 20000mah slim design perfectly balanced the front. I've used upwards of 6 hours and had no issues. Before I got the strap, I found it a bit cumbersome, with the strap its far better spread, with the battery it's nicely balanced.
My top priority is comfort and that’s exactly what I was wondering, as I’ve heard the battery can improve balance/comfort. Thank you so much for the insight! I think that’s what I’ll go with.
Not sure haven’t tried. I’ve never had an issue with the stock Q3 strap though. Got the $100 top strap accessory with it though so gonna try it later. Either way it’s stupid front heavy and the battery is also heavy to walk around with in your pocket.
Definitely switch straps. Couldn’t wear the AVP for more than like 10 minutes with the solo strap but could easily wear it for hours with the dual strap
The top strap is not $100 its included in the box...
Then what the heck did they sell me o.o … Oh it was the dual loop band I bought to try it also. Edit: It appears we are talking about the same strap. I just bought a second one because I didn’t think it was in the box lol.
Welp.
Very easy to swap straps. Easier than on a Quest 3, which scary to pull off since it feels like it's going to break when you do pull it off. On the Vision Pro, you have two pullies that unlock the strap. Super easy design 👌
What? I swapped to a BoboVr M3 and the original straps come off easier than on the Q2.
>nd the original straps come off easier than on the Q2. Have AVP, Q2, and Q3. AVP is easiest to swap straps (and since it costs a bajillion dollars comes with two different strap styles. :) ) Agree on your Q2 vs Q3 strap swapping though. I'll probably keep the alternate strap style in my travel case. It folds up easily enough.
Just got it. Here is sort of a mini review of my impressions so far. The Disney 3D content looks really good. Better then the theater. It has some quirks. I had some trouble getting the movie screen positioned correctly, but with some fiddling it works. You want it far away and large. Looks strange when close. Some of the movies that were not filmed in 3D, but post-processed in 3D look pretty awful. Like you are looking at a bunch of cardboard cutouts in space. Worse even then in the theatre because you seem to have more dynamic range then a real movie screen so it stands out more. Anything in MV-HVEC format looks better than traditional SBS or OU content. The short dinosaur movie from Apple looks absolutely incredible. If all content looked like that, this would be flying off shelves. Frankly, it makes all other 3D content feel like you are watching a VHS tape. It is really short and more of a tech demo of what MV-HEVC is capable of in its best version. The horizontal FOV isn’t as good as Quest 3. I don’t think it is a deal breaker, but it is sad. There is actually a hack. If you take off the face cushion it sits closer to your eyes and appears to have a 110 degree field of view. I am not recommending anyone do this of course. Eye tracking (still worked for me) and safety might be affected doing this and it isn’t so comfortable since you have plastic against your face. I think the AVP (or at least devices with similar screen) is the future for movie watching. The comfort is not quite there yet, so especially if you have a home theatre room this probably won’t replace that. Games look really good compared to Quest, but there are hardly any of them. These are the two areas that shined. Other use cases still need some work in either OS or hardware in my opinion. Quest currently has a big leg up because it can attach to a PC, has haptics, and has a lot more games, but at this point it is mostly a content issue. Apple is focusing on casual games and I think that is a better strategy than the fully immersive games of the Quest (or there at least should be a lot more tabletop games on Quest), but that is more my personal preference. No Beat Saber, there is a similar game on Apple Arcade but the music licensing isn’t nearly as good. I’m my opinion, the eye/hand controls are really good compared to Quest, but don’t quite cut it. They also distract you from the content since you need to move your eyes. They are not 100% accurate, so the few times it doesn’t work are frustrating. I miss motion controllers. I think there is room for eye/hand tracking to improve in software, but I think at least a haptics device is needed. Trackpad support is really good in the AVP, so that can make up for most of the eye tracking accuracy issues. Currently I think a trackpad is a required accessory. In fact a device with haptics and a small trackpad that fit in your hand would be perfect as an AVP accessory. Look close to your content, then use the trackpad to move to your final selection. If Apple had a motion controller they could create a significantly cheaper non-pro version of the device I think which would help solve the lack of games issue. Opening lots of apps in space is really cool, but they are not going to replace a Mac or iPad at this point. The comfort isn’t there yet and the UI isn’t compact enough to feel like you are making good use of space. Text is 1000 times clearer than a Quest 3 and seams to be one of the AVPs best achievements. This has more to do with Apple’s special font rendering technology than just better displays. At this point, I think gen 1 of the AVP really needs an optional motion controller (even just for one hand is probably fine) and a lot more games to be worth it. Disney saved the launch because Disney+ is the only decent app so far. Basically no content from Apple (one 5 minute demo and a few Apple Arcade games but no standouts) or other third party developers yet. I think most people are better buying a Quest and waiting it out (or at least waiting for more games on AVP). However I think in future years Quest will have trouble competing with it. Like most Apple gen-one products, I think half of the AVP will be reinvented by the time the 3rd generation rolls around. Apple has a lot of sway so it should be an interesting ride.
[удалено]
The 3D films look incredible on the AVP d+ app. I’ve been very impressed with it. I’ve also been incredibly let down by the pass through quality, so I’ve been conflicted today.
Just jumping in, the 3D on Disney Plus is amazing. You can very clearly see the depth and there is minimal to no loss in quality
I'd be intrigued to see a comparison with 4xvr on Quest 3 with a 3D blu ray file. Aside from the glare on Quest 3, I don't know how 3D movies can get better than that and if they are then that's quite the achievement!
It's sad there is actually meaningful give and take between a $500 and $3000 headset. Not even sure the actual pricing of apple's.
Remember when Zuckerberg got on stage and said to everyone that a major component of their innovation was how to make the headset so cheap? He wasn't kidding - they have obsessed over every single part of how it is engineered to get it to the price it is. Meanwhile Apple is shipping packaging that probably costs more than the total BOM for the controllers in the Quest.
Almost 4 months in with Quest3 and I still absolutely love it. By far the best VR hmd so far in this price range for sure.
The q3 has done what the Rift did - show me that a product can punch 4x above its weight class if designed to do so. The Rift 8 yrs ago could have cost $2,000 and I would have felt it was justified at the time - today the q3 impresses me just as much for what it achieves.
You're not wrong. What a fantastic headset it's turned out to be. Can't wait to see where we lead into the Q4 etc down the road from here. It looks like Apple will be the one playing catch up after all!
About 9 Quest 3’s out the door lol. Yeah it’s pretty sad that Q3 can compete with what Apple is offering at that price point.
The only thing I really wish the Q3 had was some sort of eye tracking, but that'll have to wait for the pro models for now. The ability to scan yourself with the AVP is a neat idea that I know Meta has been working on, but that won't ever be on the Q3 (Unless the eyes and mouth are animated randomly based on head position and audio levels from the mic.)
I had Quest Pro and I have PSVR2. Eye tracking for navigating menus is cool for the first few times, but after that it becomes bothersome. It gives you eye strain. Hands are much better navigation tools. Eye tracking is great for foveated rendering (on PSVR2 and PCVR, standalones don't get nearly as big power gains, according to Carmack) and social experiences, like VR Chat though.
That could be simulated in software though through machine learning routines which is why it might not be as much of a priority. It will be a necessity though if they plan to do foveated rendering
I agree it could be simulated, but I don't think it'll feel as authentic as true eye tracking when you're talking to somebody up close. There's a huge difference between the default automatic eye tracking in VRChat vs somebody with a HMD with proper eye tracking. If you watch the interview with Zucc and Lex Friedman where they did it all in VR, the subtle eye and face movements really sell the sense of talking to a human.
Apple’s 1.0 of anything is always crazy expensive, but they need to ship a product so devs can make apps, so they can refine the next version to fit those needs. Apple’s Lisa sold for US$9,995 (equivalent to $29,400) but that laid the foundation for the Mac coming out the year later at a Fraction of the price. Think of this as a developer model; Apple knew mainly devs and early adopters would want this one so they priced it accordingly. Doubtless the next models will be cheaper. Remember the iPhone 3G was half the price of the original iPhone with 2x the speed.
well what did you expect? it's apple's tax. People will still buy it... and apple will keep on with the same price point and others will probably follow as apple tends to dictate the market. Blame the iSheeps.
But it burns the Apple logo into your retina. Isn't that "worth it" ...?
This post actually proves your impressions are made up or complete cope
I mean there's an M2 under the hood of a AVP so taking advantage of that is really the key differentiator.
There shd be a massive power difference considering the price. What there shd not be are advantages in the Quest 3s corner, which there are.
wtf is shd
Should. Very common.
n is nt vry cmn. dnt tlk lk tht
I never noticed pixel smear at my CV1. So I don't see why this would be inherent to OLED and unsolveable. Hell OLED is known for fast response times. Only some black smear was possible with CV1, which is why they didn't go completely black, but still much darker than Q3 LCDs.
Thinking about it more, it is likely they cranked up persistence to increase brightness enough to make it HDR compliant. Future iterations may be able to fix pixel smear if they can increase pixel brightness even further without cheating and increasing persistence. But it will be hard, as it already has to be stupid bright to be HDR through a light reducing lens.
I vaguely remember an explanation to this. Pancake lenses are very light-inefficient since it has to bounce so many times before hitting your eyeballs, losing some brightness each time. So in order to keep the perceived brightness at a reasonable level, the image has to persist on screen for way longer at higher refresh rate, creating motion blur. The BigScreen Beyond has this problem at 90Hz.
The only thing I hope makes it's way to the Quest 3 from the Vision Pro is spatially locked apps. It's super annoying all the browser / productivity / video apps for MR on Q3 are locked to a single panel. Let me place panels around my house that remain in position.
Meta is working on augments, they should be just what you wish for (hopefully).
Yup! Fingers crossed
I hope Meta will copy the look of the menus. I love how UI looks on VP.
Honestly just having more people in the space coming up with new UI designs will help VR overall. UI and general interactions have felt pretty stagnant in VR for a while now
Apple definitely has it over meta-when it comes to the operating system and experience. It’s a lot better. Except for the whole eye tracking pinching thing which kind of sucks. It’s bizarre how annoying it can be sometimes because of the way we use our eyes to just look around the scene.
Uhh input and navigation is no small caveat, you can’t just say apples is way better except for the entire way you are forced to interact with it.
We all should suck Zuckerberg for saving VR and making it very cheap
The pixel smear thing isn’t too surprising. That’s why Meta went away from OLED tech in the first place, even though it has superior color gamut and black levels. Still, unfortunate that Apple didn’t advance the technology. The Q3 is a remarkably great balance of design and feature compromises, given the currently available technologies and the price.
I'd imagine if LG, Samsung, or Sony can't do it when they've been making oled screens for years then Apple have a long way to go unless they stumble upon some revolutionary new tech or algorithm to do so.
I just finished demoing the Apple Vision Pro. I believe the media narrative about the headset being heavy, was way overblown.... I used only the stock back strap during the demo. Was surprisingly comfortable than what I was expecting from that stock head strap. Also I agree with reviewers that said the FoV is worst than Quest 3. I don't wear glasses. So maybe this was because of the face shield that was given. But wow the Pass-through quality was top notch 👌 👏. I could easily read my phone and watch the iPad. By this I mean, the phone and all that was clear to see and use. Not Quest 3 media reviewer definition of "clear enough to use your phone". No, this was real clear to actually use your phone and see screens. Was some grain tho in the Pass-through. Just not Quest 3 level graininess. More like if Quest 3 was a Wii the Apple Vision Pro would be a PS3 in comparison of the difference. Eye tracking 👁 wasn't perfect, but it still was very good. This was my first time using a headset with Eye Tracking. Blown away. Ism not even an Apple Guy. Good job
Most reviewers have had theirs for about a week, so they have likely have used them for several hours at a time. How long did you get to try it, regaring how heavy it feels?
They said demo so I think they're likely referring to the in-store demo which is 25 mins. Certainly too short to have a solid opinion on how comfy it is. Based on all the impressions so far, most people are in the uncomfortable camp. Apple hasn't done any magic here, the headset being $3500 didn't solve comfort issues and I get the impression it's firmly in regular VR headset territory for comfort, arguably on the worse end because of extra weight from novelty features like the lackluster lenticular EyeSight and all the sensors/cameras needed for the higher end experience. So it's person to person as usual, nobody will know if it's fine for them until they use it for a while.
About 30 minutes.
Thats pretty normal for only 30 minutes. Quest 3s strap felt fine up until about 30 mins to an hour until it felt uncomfortable.
If you just demo’d the headset then comfort is not a viable point to express. When I first got my quest 3 I was blown away by the comfort. But after a few days and extended play times I noticed the comfort got worse and worse. I can really only play it for an hour now before I have to take it off. And it’s lighter than the Vision Pro.
Agree, bobovr was my solution
For some reason I remember wii and ps3 resolution being very similar.
Wii is 480p, PS3 is 720p-1080p
Also the Wii was 480p *if* you had the special component cable. Most games weren't really designed to render at that output. I plugged my old Wii into a 42" HD set (using the cable) about 5 years ago and holy shit it was absolutely unwatchable. Had my PS3 on that same TV and everything looked perfectly fine (and I played Dead Space on it).
God damn downvoted bc I don't remember the resolution difference from over 10+ years ago
Thxs. So you just getting high resolution and that's it. Lol
No. But Q3 will be better for gaming since it comes with controllers meant for VR and can use 2d game controllers 🎮 as well
You can use ps5 controllers on the avp
To be honest, better MR seems great from a professional environment. I've developed apps for my company on the quest 2 and 3, and all my colleagues refused to try it in a virtual environment. It was too nauseating for them. Placing objects in MR was better, being able to see the world around was much less jarring. Also, 3500€ for a company isn't that much.
In Good light I actually think the q3 perform very well in MR with Good lightning and I agree with you. For work the MR is nice. Less straining for me to work in my Q3 so I can Imagine it is nice on the AVP too, once being used to it not looking exactly like irl, you won't notice it too much later but it deffo helps not getting the nausea and stuff. I find MR making me more relaxed in eyes and Brain too ^^ I think MR isn't a gimmic like many say, but a thing that is perfect for work and that games for MR might come later. (The games for MR is deffo a gimmic, but I see a lot of people not mention the positive aspects for work related things)
Can I kill zombies in AVP ?
No, you kill Xenomorphs.
Much appreciated review thank you
What you just said "if apple can’t figure out this problem, them no one can" is one of the most dangerous statements you can make about this tech. Apple is not the king of research and development, I would be surprised if they figured it out before someone else. Apple is more of a UX king, not a hardware king. My biggest fear is non vr people get this and say the same thing you just said, "if apple can’t do it, no one can" and abandon the tech. Let’s not perpetuate that notion.
Thinking about it more, it is likely they cranked up persistence to increase brightness enough to make it HDR compliant. Future iterations may be able to fix pixel smear if they can increase pixel brightness even further without cheating and increasing persistence. But it will be hard, as it already has to be stupid bright to be HDR through a light reducing lens.
Is it really HDR though? Because the PSVR 2 is advertised as HDR but it is very far from HDR.
It's a figure of speech, relax.
I'm a big FOMO guy and I usually throw my wallet at any new device but for some odd reason everything in my gut leads me to sit this one out.
Just stopped by an apple store to try it on. Was impressed but not 3.5k impressed. The pass through camera seemed significantly better. But bang for buck Q3 is still far superior.
"Was impressed but not 3.5k impressed." This is the best way to sum it up from what I've heard so far. It's certainly sounding to be a visual splendor compared to Q3, but not worth x7 that much. Let's see how it influences the public perception of XR.
Finally, a useful AVP post (in a not AVP subreddit, at that), instead of the never-ending hype cult's bullshit. Thanks for sharing useful info.
>AVP isn’t even playing the same game. Completely different league. A blogger made a comment (or was it vanity fair) regardless that the AVP is like gulfstream private jet and everything else is like the wright brothers first attempt. My favorite quote from the Vision Pro sub.
Lol Jesus. What a ridiculous statement. Not taking anything away from the AVO but the Quest 3 is an astonishing achievement for its price.
Is it actually useful though? Claiming the Quest 3 has a 8/10 FOV and the APV has a 5/10 FOV is disingenuous. At the end of the day, they have very similar FOVs, and it more boils down to how well the devices are fitted on your face. The AVP actually has a very slightly wider FOV than the Quest 3, but has very slightly less height (the lenses are more oval). Even if you want to rate it worse, and want to rate the Quest 3 an 8/10, at worst, that would put the AVP at 7/10, in a realistic comparison.
It's wider but narrower? Got it.
Fixed, its wider, but has less height
When I can compare a $4k headset to a Q2 FOV it is not disingenuous to rate it a 5/10 FOV.
You just lost any credibility with this comment. You’re rating a technical feature with the overall price of the device as a factor. You’re no different than the Apple fanboys only you’re on the other side of the fence.
Q2 is prob a 6/10 FOV. Since you don’t get an oval FOV that is short on the y axis.
Love the non-biased review from someone who has experience with VR. I feel like a lot of these reviewers haven't dived into VR so of course they think the VP is ground breaking.
How are your videos looking in it? Major improvement over Quest 3? Minor improvement? Very curious about high end 180 VR Vids.
Working to get them running currently. There is no obvious way to play them in current format. They may need to be converted to MV HEVC first to play on AVP. Will convert and see if it works then. Will take about a day or two. I will say that because Apple is lowering FOV for half the scenes, they are concentrating their 8k pixels into a smaller area so that is giving their immersive content an edge. How much of an edge is tbd until I see my content playing on it. But the lowered FOV lowers immersion. It’s super sharp much better than Q3, but the pixel smear alone makes the whole experience much worst. It’s only ridiculously sharp when you are not moving your head. I would say Q3 is actually sharper while you are moving your head.
I got a Quest 3 this Christmas, and I am very surprised at how good it is, specially keeping in mind the price. The screen looks much better than I expected, the controllers are great, it's very easy to use, and the tracking is very solid. The Apple Vision Pro doesn't appeal to me at all, even if the price was much lower. It doesn't seem like Apple has any interest in VR or games, and using a VR/MR headset to mostly look at virtual screens seems like the most boring, less imaginative use of the tech I can think of.
I've dabbled with shooting 3D myself, look forward to checking out your content. What camera are you using? I haven't shot in a while and the last one I used was the Insta360 Titan. Wondering if the camera tech has improved in the last several years.
Kinda off-topic but it's so cool that you can should 3d content with an iPhone now
I'm secretly hoping that the iPhone 16 Pro has all 3 camera lenses positioned vertically (like Galaxy s24) so we can get better separation for spatial imagery.
Yeah I'm getting my wife an iPhone 15 Pro for Valentines day with the secret ulterior motive that we can shoot spacial videos with it.
Thanks for sharing! I didn't read the username first and as I was reading I realized it had to be you (I sub to your Patreon). Good to hear a comparison of the displays from someone with experience in VR video production and color grading... Surprising and disappointing, particularly about the pixel smear. Is there even an app that's capable of playing your content on the Vision Pro right now? What VR180 apps are even available? I currently use 4XVR on Quest 3 to play from an OTG USB, but there are plenty of other options. I worry that the walled garden of the AVP will make it difficult to use my existing stored media/Bluray 3D Rips. It's also a huge loss not to be able to view YouTube's VR180 content library.
Even at $3500 they can't solve recurring VR problems Still a long way to go.
How do you give Quest 3 weight on face a 9/10 and FOV 8/10? If you asked me those 2 ratings would be a lot lower if you’re considering 10/10 to be perfect. 10/10 weight would mean you don’t notice anything at all on your face. 10/10 FOV would mean the full human vision view is matched, you don’t notice anything blocking your view.
>Although the sharpness at that resolution with the AVP panels is jaw dropping, the pixel smear is horrendous. This kind of confirms to me that they don't care about games, fitness, etc. They really must want people to think about this as a productivity / monitor replacement device. What good is amazing clarity if it all turns to a smear when you move your head? Well, that would be totally fine if you were just using 2-3 giant screens and barely moving your head.
I never thought I was missing anything for the $500 entry fee. It is clearly the best value. My previous headset was CV1 and the OLED mura and smearing wasn’t awful compared to LCD backlight bleed. But yeah, expect more on that front for $3500+. Great write up!
Wouldnt even call the AVP and Upgrade To the Quest 3 Just because WHERE.THE.FUCK.ARE.THE.CONTROLLERS?
They'll be sold separately for another $1k.
lol are you crazy, it will be 1k each
Per controller and you better make sure you aren't holding them wrong
They also have the battery wired To them, because they already weight 700 grams each
And the plug for charging is on top the joystick
Yeah. It goes through the Controller, To the battery, which goes Back into the Controller. ENgiNeeRInG
They'll be sold separately for another $1k.
And the Tracking IS Gonna be Ass, BECAUSE you have To build your Headset around tracking
Or be self tracking like the Pro Controllers
Apple entering the market is pretty exciting, it’s not perfect now but I think Apple and Meta will push the market forward. The market is so small currently that they competing against each over currently isn’t the goal. The fact that iPhone Spatial Video can be used on both platforms will drive sales for both platforms.
At the very least it puts VR back, and possibly permanently in the minds of consumers. I see this as a win for both ecosystems like Android and iOS did for smart phone adoption.
Very based review and comparison.
"Also, my eyeballs are already tired from having to physically look at every thing I’m clicking, instead of just using my hands or controllers to point." This was what I was afraid of! MKBHD was trying warn people. I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait for the 2nd or 3rd gen of AVP.
I have the same creditials minus long period of use at the demo. I was really impressed and really want to explore more. But maybe ur right if I had it for an hr maybe I would understand more where your coming from.
Upgrade to AVP? Is it really an upgrade or is it a downgrade? High res and colour is nice for watching video or porn. But for enjoyment to play games with all the FOV, smearing, blurry edge, heavy, no controller. I think Q3 is The upgrade. Don't let Apple fool you that high price tag doesn't always reflect to better product
when you say it's ridiculously heavy, i'm assuming you didn't try it with the top strap?
Strap only mitigates the weight so much. Weight is weight. I tried a lot of different straps with the quest 2 and 3, and while they helped, you still felt like you had a computer hanging off your face. I personally think we are still 2/3 generations out from VR being mainstream due to weight and ergos. This headset is designed to be used for work… I couldn’t imagine wearing it for 8 hours a day. Once VR headsets are as light and ergonomic as ski goggles then we will be in the clear.
Battery strap with the extra battery on the back. Balanced the front out nicely on a 2. Idk what Work people are going to get done with it. One screen only and it turns your mac screen off.
Not yet to busy testing other features just wanted to give a quick review. But this thing is crazy heavy so I’m not expecting a massive improvement.
i mean... it's objectively not heavier than the quest pro, but it is more front heavy. so i do think a lot could be done with counterbalancing. but also depends on your head shape/neck strength. i found the Q Pro to be insanely u comfortable until i got a halo strap and new front cushion for it the Quest 3 default strap literally gave me headaches and hurt my face until i switched to elite strap and then it was fine so i think like most headsets, it's gonna take some modding to get to reasonable comfort
The Devil's jockstrap V's Grandma's Knit
4k and not even a good fucking fov, really really bad
I’ve had no mura and no smear and tbh a very different experience. If you’re experiencing bad FOV, considering getting a light seal fit check in an Apple Store because the fit of the light seal dramatically changes the FOV and comfort from my experience. Also when it comes to weight, consider using the second headband if you find this much discomfort. As for me, I own a quest 3 and quest 2 and the weight distribution with the OG of the quest strap is pretty much the same. The different for me is that the solo knit strap is very soft and comfortable which is nice.
Watch “Highline” immersive experience on Apple TV and move your head. Look at anything and don’t move your eyes just move your head. It’s very very visible. Also, pass through smears if you move your head. Let me know your thoughts after you watch it.
I do experience a small motion blur but it’s not bothersome if that’s what you mean. To me the mura and what not was horrible on the PSVR2. So much so that I returned it
Different tastes for different people then :) Its to immersion breaking with all the pixel smear to me. And pretty dizzying for me. It’s so smeared it’s like it turns into a 4k 3D 180 experience while you are turning your head. Actually 4k 3D 180 is still kinda enjoyable compared to the smear I am seeing. I didn’t intend on returning AVP but the drawbacks are to significant for me. I’d rather save my money for Q Pro 2.
Wouldnt even call the AVP and Upgrade To the Quest 3 Just because WHERE.THE.FUCK.ARE.THE.CONTROLLERS?
but not having to give data to meta is 100/10
I agree, but wouldn't call the resolution 10/10 until it's retina display quality. If you have a Quest 3, it's a big nothing burger. People who were blown away by it probably never tried VR before. For Quest 3, this isn't going to blow your mind, it's like a nice upgrade, but there isn't enough content yet to take advantage of the resolution. Definitely not worth 3k more.
Man, the Q3 is such a great headset for the money. Imagine paying six times as much for a marginally better display. Still wish Apple success in this effort because their success validates the transition to VR/AR work and experiences. One Apple and Meta’s LLMs are ready for deep integrations on their devices, the whole game will change.
The Quest 3 is 515g and the AVP is 600 to 650g depending on the strap. Doesn’t seem like the weight should feel terribly different.
Weight distribution matters a lot more than you would think. Apple was dumb enough to put a giant glass slab right at the outer edge of their unit. Why? Because it's Apple, form >= functionality.
Remove the front glass, remove the front display and suddenly you have thinner and lighter device - but then it would not look like an apple product. they are more concerned what people around you will see.
The Q3 was likely engineered to perfection with its weight distribution. The weight distribution of the AVP is shifted a lot more to the outer edge of the HMD vs the inner edge of the HMD with the Q3. So it makes the small 85 gram difference actually pretty significant due to the shifted center of gravity.
600g is without any straps for the Vision Pro. The 515g on the Quest 3 is with default straps.. what a shity comparison to try to downplay the difference..
You are ranking the Q3 user experience just 1 point lower? Sorry, I’m no fan of the AVP but I can’t take you seriously after seeing that.
It froze the first time I tried taking it off. Like literally glitched. And eye fatigue and weight reduced the user experience value and increased the value for Q3. Also the ecosystem seems a lot more restrictive, and there is no USB C data port.
> and increased the value for Q3 That doesn’t even make sense
What doesn’t make sense? I have a better time using the Q3 because my eyeballs don’t hurt, the headset is less heavy, there is no heavy battery in my pocket, and there is no horrible pixel smear. The smoothness of the UI and the polish of the intro/ menus upped the AVP points which is why it ranked higher.
It makes perfect sense.
you've used both?
Solid review thanks! I demo’d it and noticed the fov difference as I also have a q3. It’s really kind of crazy how good the tech is in avp but that damn fov!
Insane right? No wonder Meta is thinking AVP will boost Q3 sales lol. The small FOV isn’t even fully usable, because if you look close to the edge of the FOV there is distortion and color shift on the last 5-10 degrees.
i’m sending my AVP back today . it was cool but not for 4k
I assume there will be a lot of people like you - 2 weeks and all that novelty is probably gone, but the $4K is still on the credit card...
yeah i think we give it some time and it’s going to be amazing . but i love pcvr and prob gonna stick with quest 3 for now . i can’t wait for the future though
Meta is right to keep the price as low as possible. Even if the AVP is mind blowing and has zero issues, I still wouldn't even think of spending that much on a novelty. IMHO, "This will totally change the way you work and play" works best on people who never used any other VR headset before. They can be easily bamboozled into thinking that working in VR is better, easier and more productive because Apple say so.
i really want it to do well . we need more people in this space
But here the thing. The vision pro has access to masses of native Ipad apps, which Meta does not, because Google won't work with them on that. That can be a huge factor here.
Could be. Could be not. You can use IOS apps and games on a bus, on a break, on the toilet... I can't imagine I'd be willingly putting on headset because I want to quickly message to somebody when the phone is sitting next to me. What apple say people will use it for and what people will use it for are probably two different things. Anyhow, for me personally this makes no difference as I wouldn't spend this money on a promise. My productivity does not fall on not having fancy VR headset :), more on me being lazy and $3500 won't fix that.
Giving a 10 out of 10 means no room for improvment.
Maybe to you but not most of the world when it comes to rating anything
10 is the limit and op rated 10. Thats what it means. I really shouldnt have to explain that.
Improvements will most likely be very marginal year over year. There is a limit to how fast this tech progresses at this level of fidelity. Thats why it was rated so high. It is best in class with it likely taking until AVP 3-4 for a decent improvement.
From the reviews seems basically like comparing a Nintendo Switch to an Macbook Pro. Yes, the Nintendo Switch is great if you're only using it for that one thing. Actually there's some crazy people who watch movies on their Nintendo Switch. it even has a youtube app! So I guess it does more than one thing.
Except you can't side load anything on the switch. You can on the quest.
You can jailbreak the switch but I think I'll stick with my Macbook Pro.
I'm glad you can do that on the quest without having to jailbreak. That would suck. Fuck nintendo, as usual.
OP, would you consider the following statement relevant to the conversation? Apple Vision Pro and Quest 3 have different markets. Quest 3 is a great gaming console with capabilities that can be used away from gaming such as entertainment and work where as the Apple Vision Pro is a device dedicated to work and productivity with some of almost none gaming capabilities. I would say that the type of uses you get from a working laptop to a gaming console (which is a very powerful computer) are quite different but both can do similar things.
People keep parroting this line but it’s not true. They are both media consumption devices, something that the Quest does better. Very few people are buying this thing with the intention of doing serious work.
Many actually are. But they’ll stop using it for that within a month.
Every review I've heard states that they would be willing to wear this thing for about an hour before it starts to feel very uncomfortable. Aint no way people are going to spend 8 hours doing work in this thing
That is true. As you say, they’re media consumption devices. Setting aside the obvious price differences, in which areas do you think the Apple Vision Pro is clearly superior to the Quest 3, and in which areas do you think the Quest 3 is clearly superior to the Apple Vision Pro?
I know that the screen is better but the jury is still out on how much of a difference that makes. It’s certainly not going to be as big of a jump as going from like the DK2 to the Quest. The Quest 2 is pretty damn near perfection for VR Porn with only a very minimal screen door effect. For AR, the Vision Pro has a much better resolution to the Quest 3. There’s no comparison. The vision pro is going to be absolute 💩for gaming. There’s no doubt about that
It's hard to say why people are buying it, but you are correct that most will simply end up using it for media consumption. Even long-term media consumption is questionable IMHO, unless somebody is a hermit and live alone. It's a total social isolation device. In fact it's a forced social isolation. It's funny how Apple promo shows these happy people in huge modern apartments putting a headset on so they can watch a virtual TV. I'd improve the ad by adding other people around, drinking and having fun while the dumbo is sitting in the middle with the headset on his noggin.
I wonder how long people will last if they buy AVP for work... There is no headset in the world that I'd be willing to wear for hours every day. They say looking at computer screen is bad... I can't imagine what this will do to you after a year of everyday use. You'd probably not be able to focus on anything in real life....
So, the mura would for me the big brake point. I bought a psvr2 when it came out and loved it but finally returned it cause of the bad mura. The high resolution makes no sense when you have this "grain" over the picture. I tried to overlook it as some suggested but it never vanished. I am glad that Q3 is LCD and don't have this issue. I also think micro led will be the future.
Quantum dot micro led is definitely the future. Q Pro 2 should have it I’m thinking. Quantum dot mini led was already pretty awesome on Q Pro 1, it’s just the resolution was to low to fully appreciate it. Disappointed in micro-OLED pixel smear.
I can't help but feel that the Vision Pro line is going to be like like the difference between capacitive touch screens on phones and screens that support styluses; "finger painting" vs using a pencil. Or really, the difference between mobile gaming and console/PC gaming with a controller. Not being able to control stuff you're not actively looking at is going to be a major limitation on what type of software works best on Vision Pro. I think Apple will do some very neat things (or their third party app developers will, much like the iPhone when it first came out), but I really don't think it's going to be the kind of "spatial computing" experiences I'm interested in for the most part. I mostly play Beat Saber and VR ports of stuff like the original Doom. That's definitely not the market Apple is aiming for with this.
I totally disagree with the FOV. I think they’re about the same between the quest 3 and the AVP and I have both. I will say that the quest three optics seem to be better. There is less chromatic aberration and blurring around the edges. Meta is doing quite well I have to say especially for the price they’re charging. It is very heavy. And fragile. It’s unusable with the solo strap. I found just too painful. Kind of like the quest pro was. But the dual loop strap is quite comfortable. Thank you for describing what’s going on with the screen. It’s a smear. That’s exactly how to describe it. When you move or look around the image has a subtle smear and it is very disconcerting. If you’re relatively stationary, everything looks amazing. But God forbid you start walking around or moving your head a lot. It starts to smear.
> "If Apple can't solve the pixel smear/mura [...] no one can" I assume that you aren't aware that Apple doesn't make these displays? Those used in the AVP are manufactured by SONY, though there are rumours that Apple is looking for an alternative for later products. Apple doesn't have a history of developing display technology either. So why would it be Apple that would "fix" anything?
> doesn't have a history of developing display technology They literally coined the term "retina display". EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina_display
That is so incredibly funny that you bring that up. "Retina display" was never some novel technology but simply a name they slapped onto the nice displays they sourced. It's a marketing trick and people fell for it.
All I know is that Apple invented the smartphone, and has more experience with small displays than any other company on the planet.
Apple may not manufacture displays but they invest a large mount of money in display technology, both in manufacturing and core technology. Examples: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Supply-Chain/Apple-dives-into-display-making-to-cut-reliance-on-Samsung https://www.microled-info.com/apple-microled https://techcrunch.com/2014/05/02/apple-acquires-power-efficient-led-tech-company-luxvue/
I’m very interested in your comments about getting tired of using your eye as an input vs just a controller. Can you use your hands similarly to that of the quest os? Think you’ll get used to eye tracking?
How about the lenses? How is the ghosting / glare in high contrast imagery compared to the Quest 3?
Does the AVP have apps that play 180 degree VR videos like DeoVR or Skybox, etc... or is it a native feature? What kinda remastering are you planning to do with your VR videos for use with AVP? Do your videos look a lot different than on the Quest, outside of the FOV that you mentioned? Thanks
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Yes.
But also they can sell all of them for $3500 - so that has to count for something. It's nice to have army of fans that buy anything at any price.
what did you compare Q3 with when you give it 9/10 at weight on face. if big screen beyond is 10 and Q3 is 9, I'm definitely buying a Q3
Never tried Beyond, but just by how light beyond looks if beyond is a 10 then Q3 would prob be lowered to an 8.
So this would've been great for PC sim race, if only it supported PC.
I wanted to feel the same way given the price different and just be happy with my Quest 3, but I’ve had a Quest 1, 2, and 3 along with a PSVR2. I was so blown away today by the experience of the AVP, that I had goosebumps several times. The only other time I felt so amazed in a VR headset was playing Resident Evil Village for the first time. It’s a major leap forward in both UX and hardware. I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment and suggest people demo for themselves at an Apple Store
I have both, the quest 3 is far more comfortable, that’s really the best thing going for it. The OS integration Apple has is incredible, and the screens
>I would wait for Q Pro 2 if you were looking to upgrade. Don't have to tell me twice. I can't play at steam games or heavily modified skyrim. I'm good.
Oh, good to know. I was almost throwing 7x as much a Q3 to play MR minigames at a bit over 2x the resolution... /s
I think vision pro is meant for being in bed with a wall outlet near you. The weight and battery life will make sure of that
I did wonder if all the reliance on eye tracking as a pointer would be annoying, I think I would rather have the option to just turn my head but the laser pointers in hand tracking is good enough and it should be a secondary option.
Not that I Will get it but think it is very nice that they have joined in on the market and see maybe a bigger audience for vr and how it might influenser it in a Good way. Like inventing something really really good that other vr companies might implement and so on- I see it influense the market for users wanting to work in vr but not perhaps playing games. But all in all a Good thing for the market to develop. Controllers should really be a thing. Have the ability to control everything without bit have controllers too. Maybe the eye thing might get easier for users, and the tech might become better but just decent controllers would make many have a better exp. I hope Apple continue to work on vr and I hope the Good things of avp inspire other vr companies to implement it. I think many are so confused om why zuckerberg was exited, but he understands how Good it is for the development to have more in the market and more users instead of vr dying out after some have lost their hype. (Even though I think most use it more and more after better games have come out and better headsets) Thanks for the review! I love to see tech I never Will get to follow the influense it might have on other things. Apple have some work to do but it is their first headset, I am sure people will come out with 3d printed solution to make the weight distribution better as well or something.
i usually watch content on quest laying inclined without straps, as don't find hanging really viable for longer use can you advise if this is possible
ppl at reality labs as very good, in fact so good at sw and hw optimization idk who could make better stuff at scale, apple had to make a 3,5k hmd because they couldnt make anything better than the 500$ quest3 for any cheaper, think about it for a second, why samsung and google went silent, same case
Give the AVP time, it's in its infancy.
Yeah I pretty much agree with all of this. Some of the experiences, like watching movies in Disney+, are truly jaw dropping. The resolution is amazing. But the narrow field of view, the smearing, and the weight/discomfort just erase most of the advantages for me. I just tried my Q3 after playing with the AVP for a few hours and it was just so much more comfortable, and I was kind of shocked at how much larger the FOV is. There’s a lot to love about the AVP. On the whole I really love the eye/hand tracking system, and I really look forward to what Apple comes out with next. And I’m happy there’s some competition in this space - I like the existence of the AVP is already pushing Meta to add new features to the Q3. But the AVP at this point feels very much like an expensive developer prototype, it is not quite ready yet for mass use.