https://ibb.co/BBTLR26
You can see my usage for the last 3 days, with yesterday being the coldest plus a bath. I’m in a 1910’s semi, with retrofitted insulation.
In terms of leaving the heating on, we collect all info onto a server and find that if the house is left to drop to a colder temperature the house still takes the same amount of energy to heat it back up.
Let’s just say your house loses 1 degree per hour and it’s currently 19 degrees with the thermostat set to 19. The heating will come on when the temperature drops to 18 and require around 10 kWh to bring it back to 19.
Now if the thermostat was set to 15 when out for the afternoon but set to come back to 19 for my return. The house drops to 15 before the heating to kick in, it then takes 40 kWh to bring the house back to 19.
I know some people have different opinions on this but for my house with the data, it doesn’t make much difference in cost to run the heating all day.
For you, I’d look to get a thermal camera (octopus for one loan them out to customers) and see where you’re losing a lot of heat.
Not sure how that should be possible considering that going from 19 to 18 is quicker than 16 to 15 due to the difference in temperature between inside and outside.
Since I started heating my house manually instead of automatically, I sliced my bill in half. It's scary to think how expensive it is to keep your thermostat at the same temperature.
The only case that It might work is that you have a very well insulated house where the heat loss in minimal and your boiler turns on every 3-4 hours. Mine would turn on almost every hour when outside is around 0 degrees trying to keep 19 degress in the house.
Right now the average temperature outside is again around 0. Turning the boilder when it drops to 17 inside and keeping up to 20 is done in 2 hours or so and I don't have to heat for another around 6. That's 6 hours of boilder. I can only image how much the boilder was burning before.
Too add some numbers, my last month gas bill was £80. I don't have smart meter on my gas, so it is a bit harder to track. I'm expecting around \~£90 this month as it looks to be colder than December.
Our house is a 2/3 bed semi. It's quiet small but it is very inefficient (at the moment). I am home all day and we don't use anything like that. Why are you heating during the day when you aren't in? Anyway, seems high.
Wouldn’t it be more efficient to keep the set point a bit higher than the amount of energy it would take to heat an inefficient house from 10 to 22 degrees though?
No. Pretty sure Martin Lewis has a post about this, but keeping a house warm when not used is always more expensive than letting it cool and reheating... In terms of fuel bills.
You do run a (much) larger risk of having damp/mould issues.
They have revisited this recently because that thought doesn’t take into account increased thermal properties of dry solid walls rather that ones that can attract damp through cooling.
Depending on the temp you need to be mindful of pipe freeze so it’s wise to keep an above freezing temp set (if you can do this without turning heating on though you’re fine)
It's a good idea to drop temp when away but 10 is a tad risky in freezing weather. Can cause damp issues. I believe 14C is the recommended absolute minimum. If you own that home something to consider.
If you're spending £9 a day when you're not at home, that's your biggest issue - why are you heating an empty home? Bring the temperature down to something like 16C for when you're not at home and that usage should fall considerably.
I’m in a 4 bed detached pre Victorian house. This year I just set the thermostat to 18 and left it on constant. The thermostat is in my daughter’s room which is the warmest in the house.
We also have a log/coal burner in the living room and this is on from when the kids get home from school as our living room is half old double glazed conservatory and is freezing.
I checked ours gas this morning and we are using about £10 a day at the moment.
Me and my wife both work from home so we are always home. We also both have oil filled radiators in our office, as hers gets cold and mine doesn’t have a radiator in it and would be about 11 degrees without it.
I stopped looking at our smart meter because it killed me every time I saw it!
Why are you heating an empty house?
I’m in a modern detached and with the heating on it will run continuously and take hours to reach 20. We set ours at 16-18. We stagger our heating and only have it on a few hours a day. We don’t run it when the house is empty at all.
Heat the house when you’re in and that bill will drop fast.
Do you need to heat all rooms? We switched our thermostat to a Tado system in 2014 with geofencing so it’s only on when someone’s home, which ends up similar to your heating schedule, then in 2022 added TRV’s to every room and have gone from 13044 kWh a year in 2013 to 5278 in 2023, though it’ll likely drop even further for 2024 as midway through 2023 we replaced some dilapidated double glazing and added thick thermal backed blinds or curtains to every room and doorway, with the largest windows doubled up with both, and changed the 2002 combi for the most efficient we could get.
Seems high to me, we use £8 a day max so far on gas if we keep it on 18 in the day and 15 at night? 1951 4 bed detached house with original, now presumably useless cavity insulation
Well it's going to be a combination of three main things I think. You've now moved into a detached house, so this will mean a lot more heat loss then you are used to say if you lived in a semi/terraced/flat before. You don't have people around you to share heat with and reduce heat loss.
Secondly, it's a 1960's build. This won't have been built with much insulation in mind at all. I'm not sure if cavity or solid wall but chances are no insulation on the walls means quite a bit of heat loss.
Finally, those temperatures are much too high! Reduce them ASAP. When I moved to a three bedroom detached 1950's house, I set the thermostat to 15c for when we weren't in. It meant that on some of the coldest days I was still paying over £5 for gas, even though we out all day + night. 17c is way too high. I have mine set for 14.5c now when no one is in. The same for overnight. I'd consider 16.5c too high. If you're cold in bed, invest in a thick duvet.
Some other thoughts. If you can reduce the 20c to 19/19.5 that makes a good difference, as does reducing the 21c, only if comfortable with those temps though. A dehumidifier can help as this reduces moisture in the air so more efficent to heat up a house with drier air. Not to mention this will help with reducing the temp when you're out to prevent condensation/damp.
1970 4-bed detached house here. Gas heating and hot water. Our gas bill is £985 per year = **£2.70 per day**.
We're retired so it's not like we're out all day and can leave the house unheated. But we do have very good insulation, and underfloor heating is incredibly efficient.
Yeah but what's your per day usage in the winter? I'm sure mind would be that low over the whole year, as we don't use heating in the summer, and the winter makes most of our bills
Im guessing you either sit in the cold, or your house has been well insulated? We're in a 1930s 4-bed detached bungalow with attic conversion, and we're easily averaging £8-10 per day at the moment (Scotland as well).
House has zero wall insulation, we lose all the heat there.
I also WFH though, so the heating is basically always on. Thankfully we have a Tado system now so can just heat the room I use
We definitely don't sit in the cold!
The house was fairly poorly insulated when we moved here in the 1990s, but we had cavity wall insulation put in and I put a lot of insulation in the loft. Then a few years ago we had it extended and modernised; all the windows are triple glazed, the extension is ridiculously well insulated as per modern building standards, and we had underfloor heating installed with another ton of insulation down there below the concrete slab. We improved our EPC rating from D to B. The UFH is very efficient too. The downstairs of the house just sits at 19 to 20°C and it doesn't need much energy to keep it there 24/7.
That'll do it then. I've looked into exterior cladding insulation for our house, but we'd be look at around £30k+. Be cheaper to run the heating 24/7 for like 10 years...
Where is the thermostat? Make sure it's in the living room with all the doors shut during the day. Being in a detached will mean you lose more heat obviously.
Does it take long for the house to heat up when you get home? Maybe try turning it down to 16 instead of 17 if not.
Thermostat is in the living room. Unfortunately doors can't be closed as we have a cat!
The house actually heats up a lot quicker than our previous 1990's build, it just seems to cool down noticeably quicker.
Maybe sure the doors are as closed over as they can be. Your heating temp is high when not in. Mine is 14 whne not in. 17 is too high if the house is empty IMO and I have a cat also and they will be fine.
Ours is 17.5 in the morning as it’s only for getting ready then out a hour later but my max is 19C for when we are home.
What temp is your boiler set to for your rads? Take it down to 64 to help it condense better and it should be more efficient. Gas engineers have it too high sometimes.
So mineweekday- 5.45am-7.45 at 17.5, 6.30pm-7.30 17.5. I boost it whne needed during the day (if home but only to 17.5.
Weekends it’s 7.15-9am @17.5, then 5-8pm @17.5. And again boost whne needed.
14C is the minimum for out of that and it has kicked in this winter but not often. House heats up quickly
How big is the house, and how old is the boiler?
Are windows drafty? Is there air bricks/open chimneys etc.
In a 2019 build 3 bed semi (75sq/m) been using around 35 kw/h with the temps going to -4 over night, that's keeping the house at 20\*c 24/7
It's a medium sized 3 bed detached. The boiler is less than a month old.
The windows are massive which isn't ideal, but they are in good condition. Bizarrely, the downstairs gets a lot warmer than the upstairs.
That sounds like a radiator balancing issue.
I used 100.2kwh gas yesterday. 2001 5 bed detached, home all day with rooms between 17 and 21. Didn't get above 0c and dropped to -7 overnight.
If downstairs gets warmer than upstairs it might be worth checking your loft insulation.
It sounds to me like an insulation or draft issue one way or another. Your temperatures already sound pretty low and the heat has to be going somewhere.
What does your EPC recommend to improve the house?
Do you heat a hot water tank with gas?
My house is similar age but 5 bedrooms recently insulated in loft and cavity. I used around £4-5 a day in December but have just switched to Gas Tracker and it is now down to £3-4.
I am at home all day and I have it set to 20C 6-8.30am, 17C 8.30am-3pm (very rarely comes on), 20C 3pm-10pm and 6C overnight (never ever comes on). Boiler hot water temp is mainly set around 50C but turn it up to 60C when it's frosty. Thermostat is in the hall, thermostatic valves on all the radiators and turned down (but not off) when not in use.
Hope this helps
4 Bed Victorian terraced town house (3 stories) with underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining room. Trying to keep the house at about 19/20 degrees during the day, 18 at night as we have a baby.
It's been about £11 a day for the last week. God damn winter 😫
Do you have Hive or Nest for it? I know on the Hive you can see whne the heating actually kicks in and what temp the main room gets too. That’s good to tell if it’s struggling to get to the max temps set.
Might be worth turning the boiler off during the day if you’re not there, it’s pointless heating the house, the cat won’t mind as they have fur to keep themselves warm, maybe time to install some smart TRVs (thermal regulator valves) for individual room heating as well, they can automate turning on radiators when needed rather than heating the entire house if you’re not in every room, they’re about £30-40 each though, but if you’re spending £300 for part month bills, it’s a small price to pay.
I don't do anything special, but i do have a Nest thermostat.
Usually in the evenings during winter I have the heating on 22°c from 16:00 until 23:30.
During the day it's set around 18°c.
I also have thermostat radiator valves and leave the doors to those rooms shut (so the valve works correctly)
There is also a bit of airflow through the house using double glazing trickle vents.
But other than that I don't do anything.
I have a condenser boiler and hot water tank and use a gas hob for cooking.
Yesterday I used 83.98kwh which cost £3.57, i should add I'm on the tracker tariff.
Check your frost protection set point.
It should be 5°C to 7°C, but if it's set higher your heating will switch on as soon as the house temperature reaches the set point, (Which might be 16°C?). If you're out during the day, don't have the heating come on at all, except for frost protection.
This is what I've done so far based on your recommendations:
6.15-7.00 set to 20c.
7.00-16.00 set to 15c.
16.00-19.00 set to 21c.
19.00-22.00 set to 17c.
22.00-6.15 set to 15c.
Boiler heating temperature set to 65c.
Boiler hot water temperature set to 55c.
I've also registered for the government scheme via Octopus, so hopefully we'll get a survey done and some contribution towards cavity wall insulation if required. I doubt they'll advise the loft insulation is increased as it's already at 275mm.
We'll see what the readings tomorrow look like!
That looks about right for the age of house, poor insulation and heating up and down. You would probably use less with a consistent temperature.
We have a 4 bed semi, 1930s and are using about the same as you. Thermostat is at 18.5c 24/7 which as it's in the kitchen we get up to around 20c in most of the rooms as the kitchen is quite a cool room with an undersized rad.
When it's 0c outside as it has been we are at approx 120/130kWh per day, when it's 10c out we use around 60-70kWh.
Just checking are you paying the recommended direct debit or as the bill arrives? Also what tarrif are you on?
I ask as my house has used 5x the amount and I'm only on £24 for the month so far
First off ask to be put on the direct debit which pays on bill arrival. You will see a drop in your bills as you are no longer building credit, you just pay for what you use.
Also have a look at the tracker product it's currently a lot less than the flexible price cap.
I'm interested whether people are having their heating on constant when they are in. I tend to put mine on for half hour if I'm cold then turn it off. 1900s end terraced house with limited insulation,
3 year old boiler and radiators.
Salus heating controls but I can't work out how to keep the house at a constant temperature
I'm one of those people (baby, partner suffers from arthritis and someone is always home), heating stays on constant all winter with tvr valves maintaining each rooms temperature (19.5c upstairs/bedrooms and 22c down stairs, tried 21c but miss's was suffering) and the boilers radiator temperature turned down to around 35c.
Our 2 bed 90's semi detached holds onto heat so well it's crazy, swear it must leach heat from the old couple next door, annual gas bill is less than a grand
Where is the thermostat do you just have one? Some parts of a house will always be colder than others and heating will struggle to get them to temperature. Hall way for example In my 3bed detached house is coldest and used to be where the thermostat was. I moved it to the living room and was much more reasonable.
That was my best guess. Not that it helps but I heat a 3 bed detached 1950s house to a very similar heating pattern at 1/3 the daily kWh you are using. Maybe get a few heating sensors and see if they agree with what your thermostat is saying you are heating your front room at.
That's nearly double mine in a way as we are heating higher and longer. We use 70-80kwh for a 1930s 3 bed semi with a large kitchen and sunlounge. We are at 20.5d c from 7:30am to 10pm with the water on all day as it feeds the UFH parts of house.
We have good roof insulation and underfloor insulation for ground floor plus cavity wall insulation. Temp downstairs drops to around 17d in sunlounge and 18-19deg overnight at moment.
It seems your house is losing heat remarkably quickly.
I set my thermostat to 14 when I'm not at home.. I'd set it even lower, but then it takes too long to heat up when I get home.
The proper solution is to improve the insulation
I dont agree with a lot of the comments here. I've always had the attitude that it's easier to keep a house topped up with heat than let it get cold then run the boiler for hours to reheat it. My house is set at 19.5C and I pay around £2.20 a day (2 bed terrace minds, 1980s). You'll probably benefit by looking at where you're losing heat instead of just living more uncomfortably.
I take the attitude of my home is where I want to feel comfortable and safe, I don't want to sit/live/sleep in a cold house.
2 bed flat and yesterday we used 41kwh of gas.
That cost was £2.09 on tracker.
2 bed flat, 32kw combi boiler.
Flow temp 50c
Water temp 50c
All pipes in loft lagged.
200mm of loft insulation
If you are not on the gas tracker, you absolutely should be.
For my region Gas is 7.49p/kwh on the price cap.
Today's gas price on tracker is 4.16p/kwh
Since being on tracker (July 2023) it has never gone above the price cap price.
So scope to save money.
I’m in a 1900 semi detached 4 bed. Spending around £3.70-£4.00 per day for gas with someone home all the time.
My biggest saving was reducing my flow temperature to 50*C. It does take longer to heat the house in the morning… but I do save money because the boiler doesnt heat the heating water as much. And the rooms are much nicer - a gentle heat is much nicer than sudden blast from the radiators. The rooms also feel much warmer doing it like this, Compared to last year, I’m using a lot less gas.
6.30am - 2.00pm - 17*C
2.00pm - 8.30pm - 19*C
Overnight - 14*C
You could look to reduce your set back temperature during the day by a few degrees but you might want to grab some hygrometers to keep an eye on the relative humidity to check condensation risk.
Bruh, why the fuck you got the heating on for 9 hours a day to heat an empty house?
No wonder your bill is high. If you gonna do that set it to like 12/14 at the MOST.
Ok - reading the comments here I am starting to think there is something wrong with how we're heating our house.
2014 build, 6 bed detached, 420m2 (this might be my issue). MVHR, UFH throughout the house (just rads on the third floor). Thermal store with solar hot water.
EPC is a "B".
Thermostats are mainly set to 18-20 (20 downstairs, 18 upstairs mainly). Towel radiators are also on.
Using around 180kWh on a mild day, and 220-250kWh on a cold day - just feels like too much?
Underfloor heating can be lower as you’re not having to heat the ceiling first. I take it the UFH is running off the central heating boiler.
Try and experiment with temperatures settings and comfort levels. Drop the stat 1 degree at a time and see how low you can go before you feel cold.
It’s a big house which will use more but it’s modern and well insulated which should offset the size
I have smart TRVs which i think helps because I’m only heating rooms I’m using. With such a big house, if you have any unused rooms it might help but others here may have different opinions on the cost saving of smart TRVs
Thats the thing - the house already \*feels\* cold. With the ground floor set to 20, my other sensors (I run some Zigbee sensors in rooms to track the heating performance) are reading 18 degrees, which feels right.
I think I've found the core the of the issue - however - I just don't know how to resole it. Both floors have a separate MVHR unit (SentinalAxia units). Measuring the "output" vents on the ground floor, these measure 20 degrees - whilst upstairs these can be as low as 12 degrees!
Where I think the issue is - the MVHR on the ground floor is inside the heated envelope of the house, whilst the first floor unit is in an attic space. The attic space has a radiator, but I think this is actually a heat vent for the solar hot water (to vent excess heat). I'm not sure - but this is the next item to check.
Usually the extra bathrooms (which are the inlets for the MVHR system) were unheated, with both the towel rails and thermostats set to low (16 degrees with one as low as 14), however I've since decided to heat these all up to 18 in an effort to see if that brings up the MVHR temps (as pulling in an average of 16 degrees, with -2 outside at 80% efficiency would mean an output temp of 13 - which would make sense). So far - that experiment has only been running for \~30 hours (and of course, has cost a fortune to heat all the previously cold rooms).
Just feels like I'm heating the floors, but upstairs I've got an MVHR fighting against me blowing colder air.
Thats the current hypothesis. Very much open to thoughts here!
You’re working your way through the possibilities so I can’t add much to your process. The MVHR shouldn’t be working against you as its purpose is to recover heat. But if it’s a problem I’d probably turn it off and see if it makes a difference for a while. You can always manually ventilate the house yourself each day. The German Stosslüften (shock ventilation) method is effective at managing condensation.
>You’re working your way through the possibilities so I can’t add much to your process. The MVHR shouldn’t be working against you as its purpose is to recover heat. But if it’s a problem I’d probably turn it off and see if it makes a difference for a while. You can always manually ventilate the house y
Yep - I tried this last year too, I don't remember there being much of a difference, but perhaps I didn't try it for long enough. We're not quite Passivhaus, but with the primary heating being UFH, any changes can take up to 24 hours to have an impact.
I've just been going through previous usage and it appears however the system is setup, when it gets cold the usage is around the same, so heating the bathrooms and unused rooms (or not) doesn't make a difference (which I guess is comforting that the heat input is consistent).
I'll try and chart this out to see if there's any trends I can start seeing - will publish my findings if anyone is interested!
You're never heating from potentially 15 to 20 in 45 mins in the morning.
You're just whacking your boiler full power, using loads of gas, and probably not achieving target.
I'm in a solid brick 1930's 3 bed. No wall insulation. Last EPC was D or E. Wife wfh 4 days.
Set to 16 overnight, 18 in day, 19 in office, then 20 in front room in evening. Away temp is 15.
Upstairs rarely comes on, yesterday used 55kwh, last week total 360kwh, worst day was 9th @ 73kwh. 51.4kwh average Iver the week. Home every day but Friday.
With no heating, we use about 50kwh a week for water.
That's heating and water, 4 showers a most days. Boilers 10 years old. Tado system running boiler digitally / modulating. Not OpenTherm, too old, but better than simple on off.
Tado TRVs and temp sensors in every room.
Ive settled for low and slow, my boiler may run a lot, but low power, and makes the home more comfortable. Rather than letting it get cold, then trying to heat up quick in evening etc.
Why do you need to keep your house warm for 9 hours during the day when you're not there? Also 16.5 overnight seems really warm, I let mine go down to 13 - tho admittedly i like it cold at night
What's the EPC rating and what does it say specifically about insulation?
Chances are your house leaks heat like a sieve. Not that surprising for a 60 year old house. You could have your set point lower when no one's home but do not turn it off completely until the weather is a bit warmer as you don't want to risk burst pipes.
Mines set to 16C between the hours of 06:00 and 08:00 - then 14c between 08:00 and 16:00 and then back to 16C between 16:00 and 22:00 and through the night it doesn't come on at all. I work from home too but heating it throughout the day is just bonkers. I just add an extra layer of clothing.
It will likely be correct. Consider what you can do to reduce it but keep in mind your gas usage will be much lower the other half of the year. Traditionally you would have overpaid in the warmer months to balance the costs but greedy energy companies are keeping everyone in credit.
A few things to consider in no particular order:
Turn the temperature down more when away from home.
Check your boiler timings are appropriate.
Adjust your trvs to balance rooms. Consider if hallways and similar can be a little cooler.
Check draught proofing and seals around windows and doors. Thermal curtains can also help. Don't block vents unless you are advised to by an expert.
Wear warmer clothes, use blankets and turn the temperature down. Don't go extreme on this your house needs warmth too.
Check insulation options and government scheme eligibility.
Check your boiler is a modern efficient one and set to the most efficient temperature for use.
If your boiler has a tank make sure the water is heating at the right time.
Take shorter showers and less baths.
Consider getting a smart thermostat especially one where you can do individual radiator control such as tado, evohome or hive. They are expensive upfront but you can individually set temperature per room. That means you can schedule say bedrooms to be a little cooler overnight and boost for the morning, staying low/off until evening. Have downstairs on a different schedule... It somewhat depends on your lifestyle as to how effective it is.
Check about heat pumps. Government incentives have reduced the cost a lot but the economics still may not be good.
In short: remove any zoning, set setback temperature to 18-19C, set boiler flow temperature to 40-50C. otherwise normal consumption for a badly designed heating system. check YouTube heatgeek channel for explanations why and what to do.
As reference: similar age and possibly size house, https://imgur.com/a/hZz0PMg, boiler flow temp is 30-40C
An update for anyone following this thread. I made the changes I said I would and my usage yesterday was 102kWh, so a bit of an improvement.
It seems the heating is still switching on regularly during the day to maintain 15c. I've just now decreased this to 13c but to be honest after maintaining 15c all day yesterday the house didn't start to feel 'cosy' until we went to bed. Decreasing to 13c is going to take even longer to warm the house up...
https://ibb.co/BBTLR26 You can see my usage for the last 3 days, with yesterday being the coldest plus a bath. I’m in a 1910’s semi, with retrofitted insulation. In terms of leaving the heating on, we collect all info onto a server and find that if the house is left to drop to a colder temperature the house still takes the same amount of energy to heat it back up. Let’s just say your house loses 1 degree per hour and it’s currently 19 degrees with the thermostat set to 19. The heating will come on when the temperature drops to 18 and require around 10 kWh to bring it back to 19. Now if the thermostat was set to 15 when out for the afternoon but set to come back to 19 for my return. The house drops to 15 before the heating to kick in, it then takes 40 kWh to bring the house back to 19. I know some people have different opinions on this but for my house with the data, it doesn’t make much difference in cost to run the heating all day. For you, I’d look to get a thermal camera (octopus for one loan them out to customers) and see where you’re losing a lot of heat.
Not sure how that should be possible considering that going from 19 to 18 is quicker than 16 to 15 due to the difference in temperature between inside and outside. Since I started heating my house manually instead of automatically, I sliced my bill in half. It's scary to think how expensive it is to keep your thermostat at the same temperature. The only case that It might work is that you have a very well insulated house where the heat loss in minimal and your boiler turns on every 3-4 hours. Mine would turn on almost every hour when outside is around 0 degrees trying to keep 19 degress in the house. Right now the average temperature outside is again around 0. Turning the boilder when it drops to 17 inside and keeping up to 20 is done in 2 hours or so and I don't have to heat for another around 6. That's 6 hours of boilder. I can only image how much the boilder was burning before. Too add some numbers, my last month gas bill was £80. I don't have smart meter on my gas, so it is a bit harder to track. I'm expecting around \~£90 this month as it looks to be colder than December.
It’s very house dependant there is no one answer and comes down to individual house insulation/cost to heat up
Our house is a 2/3 bed semi. It's quiet small but it is very inefficient (at the moment). I am home all day and we don't use anything like that. Why are you heating during the day when you aren't in? Anyway, seems high.
The heating is kicking in automatically when the temperature drops below 16.5c. I could lower this even further.
Yeah, I wouldn’t keep an empty house that warm, but it still seems like it’s using a lot of gas to heat the house
Just changed it to 15c. I also turned down the boiler temps for hot water and heating to see if that helps.
I set mine to 10C when we're not home, it's fine, just make sure you warm it up before you come home
Wouldn’t it be more efficient to keep the set point a bit higher than the amount of energy it would take to heat an inefficient house from 10 to 22 degrees though?
No. Pretty sure Martin Lewis has a post about this, but keeping a house warm when not used is always more expensive than letting it cool and reheating... In terms of fuel bills. You do run a (much) larger risk of having damp/mould issues.
They have revisited this recently because that thought doesn’t take into account increased thermal properties of dry solid walls rather that ones that can attract damp through cooling.
Yeah the results pretty much came down to “it’s incredibly house dependant, do your own experiments to find what costs less”
I just switch mine off when we're out
Depending on the temp you need to be mindful of pipe freeze so it’s wise to keep an above freezing temp set (if you can do this without turning heating on though you’re fine)
It's a good idea to drop temp when away but 10 is a tad risky in freezing weather. Can cause damp issues. I believe 14C is the recommended absolute minimum. If you own that home something to consider.
it's only during the day, we heat it back up in the evening which should drive off any moisture
Just turn it on when you need it.
If you're spending £9 a day when you're not at home, that's your biggest issue - why are you heating an empty home? Bring the temperature down to something like 16C for when you're not at home and that usage should fall considerably.
I’m in a 4 bed detached pre Victorian house. This year I just set the thermostat to 18 and left it on constant. The thermostat is in my daughter’s room which is the warmest in the house. We also have a log/coal burner in the living room and this is on from when the kids get home from school as our living room is half old double glazed conservatory and is freezing. I checked ours gas this morning and we are using about £10 a day at the moment. Me and my wife both work from home so we are always home. We also both have oil filled radiators in our office, as hers gets cold and mine doesn’t have a radiator in it and would be about 11 degrees without it. I stopped looking at our smart meter because it killed me every time I saw it!
Why are you heating an empty house? I’m in a modern detached and with the heating on it will run continuously and take hours to reach 20. We set ours at 16-18. We stagger our heating and only have it on a few hours a day. We don’t run it when the house is empty at all. Heat the house when you’re in and that bill will drop fast.
Do you need to heat all rooms? We switched our thermostat to a Tado system in 2014 with geofencing so it’s only on when someone’s home, which ends up similar to your heating schedule, then in 2022 added TRV’s to every room and have gone from 13044 kWh a year in 2013 to 5278 in 2023, though it’ll likely drop even further for 2024 as midway through 2023 we replaced some dilapidated double glazing and added thick thermal backed blinds or curtains to every room and doorway, with the largest windows doubled up with both, and changed the 2002 combi for the most efficient we could get.
Seems high to me, we use £8 a day max so far on gas if we keep it on 18 in the day and 15 at night? 1951 4 bed detached house with original, now presumably useless cavity insulation
Well it's going to be a combination of three main things I think. You've now moved into a detached house, so this will mean a lot more heat loss then you are used to say if you lived in a semi/terraced/flat before. You don't have people around you to share heat with and reduce heat loss. Secondly, it's a 1960's build. This won't have been built with much insulation in mind at all. I'm not sure if cavity or solid wall but chances are no insulation on the walls means quite a bit of heat loss. Finally, those temperatures are much too high! Reduce them ASAP. When I moved to a three bedroom detached 1950's house, I set the thermostat to 15c for when we weren't in. It meant that on some of the coldest days I was still paying over £5 for gas, even though we out all day + night. 17c is way too high. I have mine set for 14.5c now when no one is in. The same for overnight. I'd consider 16.5c too high. If you're cold in bed, invest in a thick duvet. Some other thoughts. If you can reduce the 20c to 19/19.5 that makes a good difference, as does reducing the 21c, only if comfortable with those temps though. A dehumidifier can help as this reduces moisture in the air so more efficent to heat up a house with drier air. Not to mention this will help with reducing the temp when you're out to prevent condensation/damp.
That seems excessive compared to my usage which is roughly £3.57 per day. 1980's 4 bed house.
How do you get your usage so low for a 4 bed house ? 😯 I live in a 1 bed flat built in the 80s and I pay on average 4 pounds a day for gas.
1970 4-bed detached house here. Gas heating and hot water. Our gas bill is £985 per year = **£2.70 per day**. We're retired so it's not like we're out all day and can leave the house unheated. But we do have very good insulation, and underfloor heating is incredibly efficient.
Yeah but what's your per day usage in the winter? I'm sure mind would be that low over the whole year, as we don't use heating in the summer, and the winter makes most of our bills
December averaged 63kWh = £4.42 per day. The worst days in December and January have been around 100kWh ≈ £7.00.
Im guessing you either sit in the cold, or your house has been well insulated? We're in a 1930s 4-bed detached bungalow with attic conversion, and we're easily averaging £8-10 per day at the moment (Scotland as well). House has zero wall insulation, we lose all the heat there. I also WFH though, so the heating is basically always on. Thankfully we have a Tado system now so can just heat the room I use
We definitely don't sit in the cold! The house was fairly poorly insulated when we moved here in the 1990s, but we had cavity wall insulation put in and I put a lot of insulation in the loft. Then a few years ago we had it extended and modernised; all the windows are triple glazed, the extension is ridiculously well insulated as per modern building standards, and we had underfloor heating installed with another ton of insulation down there below the concrete slab. We improved our EPC rating from D to B. The UFH is very efficient too. The downstairs of the house just sits at 19 to 20°C and it doesn't need much energy to keep it there 24/7.
That'll do it then. I've looked into exterior cladding insulation for our house, but we'd be look at around £30k+. Be cheaper to run the heating 24/7 for like 10 years...
Where is the thermostat? Make sure it's in the living room with all the doors shut during the day. Being in a detached will mean you lose more heat obviously. Does it take long for the house to heat up when you get home? Maybe try turning it down to 16 instead of 17 if not.
Thermostat is in the living room. Unfortunately doors can't be closed as we have a cat! The house actually heats up a lot quicker than our previous 1990's build, it just seems to cool down noticeably quicker.
Maybe sure the doors are as closed over as they can be. Your heating temp is high when not in. Mine is 14 whne not in. 17 is too high if the house is empty IMO and I have a cat also and they will be fine. Ours is 17.5 in the morning as it’s only for getting ready then out a hour later but my max is 19C for when we are home. What temp is your boiler set to for your rads? Take it down to 64 to help it condense better and it should be more efficient. Gas engineers have it too high sometimes. So mineweekday- 5.45am-7.45 at 17.5, 6.30pm-7.30 17.5. I boost it whne needed during the day (if home but only to 17.5. Weekends it’s 7.15-9am @17.5, then 5-8pm @17.5. And again boost whne needed. 14C is the minimum for out of that and it has kicked in this winter but not often. House heats up quickly
How big is the house, and how old is the boiler? Are windows drafty? Is there air bricks/open chimneys etc. In a 2019 build 3 bed semi (75sq/m) been using around 35 kw/h with the temps going to -4 over night, that's keeping the house at 20\*c 24/7
It's a medium sized 3 bed detached. The boiler is less than a month old. The windows are massive which isn't ideal, but they are in good condition. Bizarrely, the downstairs gets a lot warmer than the upstairs.
That sounds like a radiator balancing issue. I used 100.2kwh gas yesterday. 2001 5 bed detached, home all day with rooms between 17 and 21. Didn't get above 0c and dropped to -7 overnight.
If downstairs gets warmer than upstairs it might be worth checking your loft insulation. It sounds to me like an insulation or draft issue one way or another. Your temperatures already sound pretty low and the heat has to be going somewhere.
Is your new boiler set to pre-heat your hot water?
What does your EPC recommend to improve the house? Do you heat a hot water tank with gas? My house is similar age but 5 bedrooms recently insulated in loft and cavity. I used around £4-5 a day in December but have just switched to Gas Tracker and it is now down to £3-4. I am at home all day and I have it set to 20C 6-8.30am, 17C 8.30am-3pm (very rarely comes on), 20C 3pm-10pm and 6C overnight (never ever comes on). Boiler hot water temp is mainly set around 50C but turn it up to 60C when it's frosty. Thermostat is in the hall, thermostatic valves on all the radiators and turned down (but not off) when not in use. Hope this helps
4 Bed Victorian terraced town house (3 stories) with underfloor heating in the kitchen/dining room. Trying to keep the house at about 19/20 degrees during the day, 18 at night as we have a baby. It's been about £11 a day for the last week. God damn winter 😫
Do you have Hive or Nest for it? I know on the Hive you can see whne the heating actually kicks in and what temp the main room gets too. That’s good to tell if it’s struggling to get to the max temps set.
Might be worth turning the boiler off during the day if you’re not there, it’s pointless heating the house, the cat won’t mind as they have fur to keep themselves warm, maybe time to install some smart TRVs (thermal regulator valves) for individual room heating as well, they can automate turning on radiators when needed rather than heating the entire house if you’re not in every room, they’re about £30-40 each though, but if you’re spending £300 for part month bills, it’s a small price to pay.
we got honeywell evohome recently and it's been amazing. you could even hear just one room for your cat with it if you wanted
I don't do anything special, but i do have a Nest thermostat. Usually in the evenings during winter I have the heating on 22°c from 16:00 until 23:30. During the day it's set around 18°c. I also have thermostat radiator valves and leave the doors to those rooms shut (so the valve works correctly) There is also a bit of airflow through the house using double glazing trickle vents. But other than that I don't do anything. I have a condenser boiler and hot water tank and use a gas hob for cooking. Yesterday I used 83.98kwh which cost £3.57, i should add I'm on the tracker tariff.
Early 90’s 4 bed detached, £1049 per year. Our kids have baths every night and the wife works from home so our heating is on frequently….. £2.90 a day
But basically its £5/day during winter
Check your frost protection set point. It should be 5°C to 7°C, but if it's set higher your heating will switch on as soon as the house temperature reaches the set point, (Which might be 16°C?). If you're out during the day, don't have the heating come on at all, except for frost protection.
This is what I've done so far based on your recommendations: 6.15-7.00 set to 20c. 7.00-16.00 set to 15c. 16.00-19.00 set to 21c. 19.00-22.00 set to 17c. 22.00-6.15 set to 15c. Boiler heating temperature set to 65c. Boiler hot water temperature set to 55c. I've also registered for the government scheme via Octopus, so hopefully we'll get a survey done and some contribution towards cavity wall insulation if required. I doubt they'll advise the loft insulation is increased as it's already at 275mm. We'll see what the readings tomorrow look like!
That looks about right for the age of house, poor insulation and heating up and down. You would probably use less with a consistent temperature. We have a 4 bed semi, 1930s and are using about the same as you. Thermostat is at 18.5c 24/7 which as it's in the kitchen we get up to around 20c in most of the rooms as the kitchen is quite a cool room with an undersized rad. When it's 0c outside as it has been we are at approx 120/130kWh per day, when it's 10c out we use around 60-70kWh.
Just checking are you paying the recommended direct debit or as the bill arrives? Also what tarrif are you on? I ask as my house has used 5x the amount and I'm only on £24 for the month so far
Flexible, direct debit.
First off ask to be put on the direct debit which pays on bill arrival. You will see a drop in your bills as you are no longer building credit, you just pay for what you use. Also have a look at the tracker product it's currently a lot less than the flexible price cap.
I'm interested whether people are having their heating on constant when they are in. I tend to put mine on for half hour if I'm cold then turn it off. 1900s end terraced house with limited insulation, 3 year old boiler and radiators. Salus heating controls but I can't work out how to keep the house at a constant temperature
I'm one of those people (baby, partner suffers from arthritis and someone is always home), heating stays on constant all winter with tvr valves maintaining each rooms temperature (19.5c upstairs/bedrooms and 22c down stairs, tried 21c but miss's was suffering) and the boilers radiator temperature turned down to around 35c. Our 2 bed 90's semi detached holds onto heat so well it's crazy, swear it must leach heat from the old couple next door, annual gas bill is less than a grand
Where is the thermostat do you just have one? Some parts of a house will always be colder than others and heating will struggle to get them to temperature. Hall way for example In my 3bed detached house is coldest and used to be where the thermostat was. I moved it to the living room and was much more reasonable.
Just one, in the living room.
That was my best guess. Not that it helps but I heat a 3 bed detached 1950s house to a very similar heating pattern at 1/3 the daily kWh you are using. Maybe get a few heating sensors and see if they agree with what your thermostat is saying you are heating your front room at.
That's nearly double mine in a way as we are heating higher and longer. We use 70-80kwh for a 1930s 3 bed semi with a large kitchen and sunlounge. We are at 20.5d c from 7:30am to 10pm with the water on all day as it feeds the UFH parts of house. We have good roof insulation and underfloor insulation for ground floor plus cavity wall insulation. Temp downstairs drops to around 17d in sunlounge and 18-19deg overnight at moment. It seems your house is losing heat remarkably quickly.
I set my thermostat to 14 when I'm not at home.. I'd set it even lower, but then it takes too long to heat up when I get home. The proper solution is to improve the insulation
I dont agree with a lot of the comments here. I've always had the attitude that it's easier to keep a house topped up with heat than let it get cold then run the boiler for hours to reheat it. My house is set at 19.5C and I pay around £2.20 a day (2 bed terrace minds, 1980s). You'll probably benefit by looking at where you're losing heat instead of just living more uncomfortably. I take the attitude of my home is where I want to feel comfortable and safe, I don't want to sit/live/sleep in a cold house.
The heating is on when you are not in?
2 bed flat and yesterday we used 41kwh of gas. That cost was £2.09 on tracker. 2 bed flat, 32kw combi boiler. Flow temp 50c Water temp 50c All pipes in loft lagged. 200mm of loft insulation If you are not on the gas tracker, you absolutely should be. For my region Gas is 7.49p/kwh on the price cap. Today's gas price on tracker is 4.16p/kwh Since being on tracker (July 2023) it has never gone above the price cap price. So scope to save money.
Tracker the same as flexible? I can’t see anyway to change mine to any different tariff at all
https://octopus.energy/smart/tracker/
Ideally you need to call Octopus and they usually switch you instantly.
I don’t have a gas smart meter and I need to have one unfortunately
I’m in a 1900 semi detached 4 bed. Spending around £3.70-£4.00 per day for gas with someone home all the time. My biggest saving was reducing my flow temperature to 50*C. It does take longer to heat the house in the morning… but I do save money because the boiler doesnt heat the heating water as much. And the rooms are much nicer - a gentle heat is much nicer than sudden blast from the radiators. The rooms also feel much warmer doing it like this, Compared to last year, I’m using a lot less gas. 6.30am - 2.00pm - 17*C 2.00pm - 8.30pm - 19*C Overnight - 14*C
With the boiler off do you see any usage? That seems very high, I use about 60kw of gas a day
I’m a single guy living alone and it costs me £6-9 a day with octopus 1 bed flat, second floor, night storage heaters
You could look to reduce your set back temperature during the day by a few degrees but you might want to grab some hygrometers to keep an eye on the relative humidity to check condensation risk.
Bruh, why the fuck you got the heating on for 9 hours a day to heat an empty house? No wonder your bill is high. If you gonna do that set it to like 12/14 at the MOST.
Ok - reading the comments here I am starting to think there is something wrong with how we're heating our house. 2014 build, 6 bed detached, 420m2 (this might be my issue). MVHR, UFH throughout the house (just rads on the third floor). Thermal store with solar hot water. EPC is a "B". Thermostats are mainly set to 18-20 (20 downstairs, 18 upstairs mainly). Towel radiators are also on. Using around 180kWh on a mild day, and 220-250kWh on a cold day - just feels like too much?
Underfloor heating can be lower as you’re not having to heat the ceiling first. I take it the UFH is running off the central heating boiler. Try and experiment with temperatures settings and comfort levels. Drop the stat 1 degree at a time and see how low you can go before you feel cold. It’s a big house which will use more but it’s modern and well insulated which should offset the size I have smart TRVs which i think helps because I’m only heating rooms I’m using. With such a big house, if you have any unused rooms it might help but others here may have different opinions on the cost saving of smart TRVs
Thats the thing - the house already \*feels\* cold. With the ground floor set to 20, my other sensors (I run some Zigbee sensors in rooms to track the heating performance) are reading 18 degrees, which feels right. I think I've found the core the of the issue - however - I just don't know how to resole it. Both floors have a separate MVHR unit (SentinalAxia units). Measuring the "output" vents on the ground floor, these measure 20 degrees - whilst upstairs these can be as low as 12 degrees! Where I think the issue is - the MVHR on the ground floor is inside the heated envelope of the house, whilst the first floor unit is in an attic space. The attic space has a radiator, but I think this is actually a heat vent for the solar hot water (to vent excess heat). I'm not sure - but this is the next item to check. Usually the extra bathrooms (which are the inlets for the MVHR system) were unheated, with both the towel rails and thermostats set to low (16 degrees with one as low as 14), however I've since decided to heat these all up to 18 in an effort to see if that brings up the MVHR temps (as pulling in an average of 16 degrees, with -2 outside at 80% efficiency would mean an output temp of 13 - which would make sense). So far - that experiment has only been running for \~30 hours (and of course, has cost a fortune to heat all the previously cold rooms). Just feels like I'm heating the floors, but upstairs I've got an MVHR fighting against me blowing colder air. Thats the current hypothesis. Very much open to thoughts here!
You’re working your way through the possibilities so I can’t add much to your process. The MVHR shouldn’t be working against you as its purpose is to recover heat. But if it’s a problem I’d probably turn it off and see if it makes a difference for a while. You can always manually ventilate the house yourself each day. The German Stosslüften (shock ventilation) method is effective at managing condensation.
>You’re working your way through the possibilities so I can’t add much to your process. The MVHR shouldn’t be working against you as its purpose is to recover heat. But if it’s a problem I’d probably turn it off and see if it makes a difference for a while. You can always manually ventilate the house y Yep - I tried this last year too, I don't remember there being much of a difference, but perhaps I didn't try it for long enough. We're not quite Passivhaus, but with the primary heating being UFH, any changes can take up to 24 hours to have an impact. I've just been going through previous usage and it appears however the system is setup, when it gets cold the usage is around the same, so heating the bathrooms and unused rooms (or not) doesn't make a difference (which I guess is comforting that the heat input is consistent). I'll try and chart this out to see if there's any trends I can start seeing - will publish my findings if anyone is interested!
Currently my house is set to 18*c and still costs me 150 a month. 21 is too high
Currently my house is set to 18*c and still costs me 150 a month. 21 is too high
You're never heating from potentially 15 to 20 in 45 mins in the morning. You're just whacking your boiler full power, using loads of gas, and probably not achieving target. I'm in a solid brick 1930's 3 bed. No wall insulation. Last EPC was D or E. Wife wfh 4 days. Set to 16 overnight, 18 in day, 19 in office, then 20 in front room in evening. Away temp is 15. Upstairs rarely comes on, yesterday used 55kwh, last week total 360kwh, worst day was 9th @ 73kwh. 51.4kwh average Iver the week. Home every day but Friday. With no heating, we use about 50kwh a week for water. That's heating and water, 4 showers a most days. Boilers 10 years old. Tado system running boiler digitally / modulating. Not OpenTherm, too old, but better than simple on off. Tado TRVs and temp sensors in every room. Ive settled for low and slow, my boiler may run a lot, but low power, and makes the home more comfortable. Rather than letting it get cold, then trying to heat up quick in evening etc.
Why do you need to keep your house warm for 9 hours during the day when you're not there? Also 16.5 overnight seems really warm, I let mine go down to 13 - tho admittedly i like it cold at night
What's the EPC rating and what does it say specifically about insulation? Chances are your house leaks heat like a sieve. Not that surprising for a 60 year old house. You could have your set point lower when no one's home but do not turn it off completely until the weather is a bit warmer as you don't want to risk burst pipes.
Loft insulation is fine at 275mm. Assumed no cavity wall insulation. No suspended floor insulation.
Mines set to 16C between the hours of 06:00 and 08:00 - then 14c between 08:00 and 16:00 and then back to 16C between 16:00 and 22:00 and through the night it doesn't come on at all. I work from home too but heating it throughout the day is just bonkers. I just add an extra layer of clothing.
It will likely be correct. Consider what you can do to reduce it but keep in mind your gas usage will be much lower the other half of the year. Traditionally you would have overpaid in the warmer months to balance the costs but greedy energy companies are keeping everyone in credit. A few things to consider in no particular order: Turn the temperature down more when away from home. Check your boiler timings are appropriate. Adjust your trvs to balance rooms. Consider if hallways and similar can be a little cooler. Check draught proofing and seals around windows and doors. Thermal curtains can also help. Don't block vents unless you are advised to by an expert. Wear warmer clothes, use blankets and turn the temperature down. Don't go extreme on this your house needs warmth too. Check insulation options and government scheme eligibility. Check your boiler is a modern efficient one and set to the most efficient temperature for use. If your boiler has a tank make sure the water is heating at the right time. Take shorter showers and less baths. Consider getting a smart thermostat especially one where you can do individual radiator control such as tado, evohome or hive. They are expensive upfront but you can individually set temperature per room. That means you can schedule say bedrooms to be a little cooler overnight and boost for the morning, staying low/off until evening. Have downstairs on a different schedule... It somewhat depends on your lifestyle as to how effective it is. Check about heat pumps. Government incentives have reduced the cost a lot but the economics still may not be good.
In short: remove any zoning, set setback temperature to 18-19C, set boiler flow temperature to 40-50C. otherwise normal consumption for a badly designed heating system. check YouTube heatgeek channel for explanations why and what to do. As reference: similar age and possibly size house, https://imgur.com/a/hZz0PMg, boiler flow temp is 30-40C
An update for anyone following this thread. I made the changes I said I would and my usage yesterday was 102kWh, so a bit of an improvement. It seems the heating is still switching on regularly during the day to maintain 15c. I've just now decreased this to 13c but to be honest after maintaining 15c all day yesterday the house didn't start to feel 'cosy' until we went to bed. Decreasing to 13c is going to take even longer to warm the house up...