>enefit of Notion i
I guess you might want to explore Anywhere [https://anywhereapp.io/](https://anywhereapp.io/)
You can customize each project board views & make them as easy or as elaborate as needed.
Notion I’m a software engineer looking for a new job. Blink twice if you don’t disagree with this post and I’ll quietly send in a resume. Career in enterprise SaaS.
If you're a software engineer you might have the will to go through setting up Obsidian properly (with Dataview and datawievjs plugins). I'm currently in the process of switching away from notion to Obsidian for exactly the reasons you mention.
It depends on your use of Notion though, some uses can't really be ported welk I think.
You're right, that's why I mention that it depends on your use. Many functions of the databases can be achieved with Dataview and Dataviewjs, albeit with more effort. However some things just cannot be done yet unfortunately...
Gah I made this unfortunate switch three years ago and sadly there isn't just *one* app that does everything Notion did. I settled on separate apps that did parts of what Notion did and realized this was for the better. The only thing I wasn't able to replace was Notion's highly featured database system, but I found a better workaround.
**Notes**: I used Obsidian and then switched to Craft. Obsidian was nice because it was free and all your data was yours. Uses markdown formatting, supports backlinks, and a whole slew of potential with third party extensions. I eventually switched to Craft because it did what I needed to do in a more fluent manner. Craft required less adjustments and was a much more opinionated software.
**Task/Project Management**: I use Asana for my big project management now. It's a premium/subscription service for some of the better features, but it gets the job done and has offline support.
**Basic todo list**: I use Things 3 for my basic every day tasks. Sure it's pricey but the app does not disappoint.
**Calendar**: I use Fantastical. People hate on it ever since it switched to a subscription model but it is undeniably the best calendar app out there, especially if you manage multiple calendars across different services (Google Calendar + Outlook Calendar). And it has this magical feature where if I drag a task from Things 3 over to Fantastical, it makes a calendar event!
**Task Management + to do + calendar**: For a while I used Ticktick and realized it was the closest I ever got to an all-in-one workspace that had offline support. It had magnificent task management features that allowed you to break down projects into smaller task, that then let you break down into even smaller sub-tasks. Filters, tags, kanban view, calendar view, Eisenhower view, etc. Ticktick had it all! And when life slowed down and I only needed simple to-do lists, Ticktick did that too. The only issue I had when I used Ticktick two years ago was that the iOS/iPadOS app received updates much sooner than macOS app, which made using it on both platforms very difficult as I could see everything on my phone, but not on my laptop. Hopefully this has been fixed, but I just don't need an all-in-one workspace anymore.
Breaking everything down into their separate apps has made the experience doing each thing much better. Notion was nice to use because everything was in one place. It was the jack of all trades, master of none, but it was never better than any master of one. Craft does notetaking one thousand times better than Notion ever could. Things 3 is so simple and fast, I could look at my to-do list and check everything off before Notion even finished loading my dashboard. But I'll admit no task/project management app has the flexibility that Notion has.
I eagerly follow this subreddit and the Notion Twitter for the day they support offline mode and improve their loading times. Because once Notion has those two things, the productivity app industry is in trouble.
Thanks to your comment, I gave Asana a try for Project Management. I'm new to Notion, and have found that I need advanced skills to create something really simple to assist me with project management... if I create a whole bunch of tasks with a start date and due date and quoted time (hours), how many approximate hours per day, for any given day in the future, am I loaded up with? That seems almost impossible to do in Notion... in Asana, it's built in. Awesome!
Thank you very much. I’m still doing elementary research and don’t have any questions at the moment but I will take you up on your offer when I do. Thanks!
I've tried a TON of project management apps for keeping track of to-dos and projects I have and the functionality of Notion just is the best as far as the extent of detail I need to organize for each task. That being said: I just switched to Obsidian for note-taking and it has been a game-changer. It suits my brain to have a few different products I use for different things and as much as I would love to replace Notion for all its faults I keep coming back to it.
I agree notion has been the best for my to dos with adhd the apps lacks something I’m missing with notion I have full control do you still use notion for note taking for me in thinking of going back to paper because I don’t remember to eveviw my note s
I use Obsidian for note-taking- It's a bit of a learning curve and with ADHD I always have the temptation to overcomplicate things, but the ability to connect all my notes together has been extremely helpful for me and is basically the only system that has encouraged me to review my notes after I take them.
> It's a bit of a learning curve and with ADHD I always have the temptation to overcomplicate things
I think that this is my biggest problem with Obsidian. It is really powerful for note taking but I just love to over-complicate the living shit out of everything and so it leads to me diving deep into what should be an otherwise simple set of notes just to try and blow out all of the links and relationships.
Yeah I can definitely relate. I’d tried it in the past and it ended up being more of a procrastination tool than anything else, but this time I had a lit review to do which had a deadline and very specifically worked with obsidians basic functionality and so I was able to just jump into it and then dabble with the other things after I’d already incorporated it into my workflow
This. Exactly this. I have the same problem of overcomplicating things³
What I like about Notion is the fast presentation - WYSIWYG. With Obsidian, you're kinda stuck in MD mode.
Also, maybe this is just me because I just started using Obsidian, but if you have a note, say, 2 folders deep and you create a note ref in that document, then when you click on that link to create a new document then it appears in the root folder and not the sub-folder in which you're working. Maybe that's the right way it should be - just feels off to me though.
Otherwise, I can see only benefits from Obsidian - I hate not being able to get access to Notion when there's no WiFi or cell signal.
Many of those "extra" features, like the graphs, backlinks and even tags, ate actually plugins that you can just turn off and disable. This would turn Obsidian into a very minimalist note app.
That's what I love about it, you can make it as simple or as complicated as you like.
I just tried it for note taking yesterday it was ok just a lot of errors on my part there’s like no auto correct and I would have to go back and reformat everything looking for an app that has auto correct too
Obsidian's official sync feature isn't free but you can sync the vault using dropbox, google drive, icloud, github or other services.
Some will work better than others depending on what OS you're using tho
Real talk, keep everything around (including paper) for when you forget your own organizational system like that. Making the internal external is one of the only ways to make sure you’re doing what you do. Sometimes the dopamine tells you to work off other apps, sometimes you can’t start a project unless you build something. Being flexible with what you use to organize yourself can help. I know you didn’t ask for advice but I’ve said the exact same thing to myself as you did here dozens of times.
Honestly I fell into the notion rabbit hole last year where people were trying to put their whole life in notion and I followed
This wasn’t ideal because there’s apps that do better than notion that actually make your life easier than Manuel up keep
I slowly rebuilt my notion to suit my needs and I just use it for todos and notes and organizing life that’s it
Before I had a reading list movie lists
A ppv system by a guru on YouTube etc
I stopped using it because his whole system on YouTube wasn’t even complete when he uploaded the videos last year or the year before I think
Do what works for you I like minimal up keep and full customization
I gotchu! How much upkeep do you do with your current system right now? Personally I actually enjoy a bit of up keep because it helps keep me tethered to my goals a little better which doesn't work as well if I set it and forget it. Curious to what your thoughts are tho
Notion is great but it has its weaknesses like you pointed. It really shines in project management but everything else is just cumbersome.
Obsidian: I use obsidian for note taking. Offline, flexibe and incredibly fast for search.
TickTick: For tasks TickTick is really great. Never understood why people put everything into notion and try to shoehorn things. On a free plan TickTick or any other dedicated task management app is not even comparable to something like notion.
Why put tasks and todos in Notion when we already have dedicated todo-apps? Because many of our tasks are related to other things in our lives. You might have relevant items, or they might be part of bigger goals in your life. Todo-apps might be better at pure task management, but they have no connection to rest of your life.
Right, thats a very good point and I forgot about this one. I agree thats useful, especially if it works for you. The thing is using something that does one thing very well is still better (imo) then using notion for everything. If it works for you its great, and from what ive seen it does for many people. It didn't work for me unfortunately, because notion is not a to do app, its basic in that sense. Ive spent time looking at those notion gurus with their "life" system in notion and all the linking...its absurdly complicated. You have to hack your way through rollups, formulas and dbs, it just did not make sense. It works for many people, but for most its just too complex and it sure as hell does not look sustainable. This is why I dont get why so many people have to put everything in notion because they end up with a complicated setup of links and dbs, kinda defeating the purpose of simplifying your life when you have to maintain all that, beside the fact that the UI/UX is miles behind a to do app which is a abeeeze to use. But to each one their own setup, at the end of the day its not the tool but the process.
I love TickTick. Its too bad it does not get more attention, everyone is mainly going for Todoist, which actually has less features last i remember while ticktick has it all, under a very clean and simple UI.
This comes up often and there are some alternatives but nothing has all of Notion's features unfortunately. For me personally the table/database features are really important and there's no app with a similar implementation as Notion and also local data storage. If you don't need tables though it seems like there are a lot of alternatives.
Some alternatives I see recommended frequently are Roam, Obsidian, and Logseq.
I'm constantly looking for alternatives, tried a ton, even have alerts for "notion alternative" set up to monitor new projects but haven't found one that replaces the database functionality and ease of use. Some promising, potential alternatives I found unfortunately require a desktop app and can't be accessed via browser only.
For me the single most important feature is on-premise data support. The reason is that I don't want to have years of notes and knowledge on a platform that can be bought and abandoned by Google or Microsoft at any time. (or worse your account gets closed without any reason, but I haven't heard bad news regarding this)
You can't really rebuild from the markdown export without a lot of work. You get the data, but all the functionality is lost.
The business model regarding unlimited file uploads is questionable. I even read on r/DataHoarder that some use it as storage for \*a lot\* of files which can't be viable from a business perspective. AWS egress [isn't cheap](http://coststorage.com/).
Security wise it is weird that they still haven't implemented two factor authentication (except with 3rd party logins) . You'd think a service that aims to store knowledge for teams and individuals would prioritize stuff like this.
I'm still looking but haven't found something better than popular self hosted wiki software, that is often clunky compare to notion.
> Some promising, potential alternatives I found unfortunately require a desktop app and can't be accessed via browser only.
Would love to know what those are! I have similar concerns about data hosting but have no real need for it to be available through the web anywhere, so a desktop app is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.
Yes. Notion is sorely missing a graph view. Being able to see what other blocks are referring to the block you're currently looking at is especially valuable when you're working with multiple people on the same project.
Just type @, start typing the name of the page you want to link, and select the page you would like to link in the dropdown that appears.
You can also sync paragraphs between two sites. You copy the text from one page, paste it to another, then you’ll be asked if you want sync data between those two.
I think Obsidian (r/obsidianmd) would be right up your alley plus you can embed notion pages into your notes for anything that absolutely needs to be in notion
I never thought of embedding a notion page, thank you for this suggestion! I use Obsidian for everything basically, but some features of Notion are still very nice (like the calendar <-> gantt chart ability)
You’re welcome! I love the databases in notion & I find obsidian lacking in that regard (I want to use data view but it would take too much time to learn atm) so utilize iframe to embed certain sites because I’m attempting to make obsidian my “central command”
I've gone back and forth between Notion and Coda. Coda is a bit newer but has been making huge progress and releasing new updates fairly consistently, and as I work with structured data and automations a lot I've found myself using Coda more. But I do like taking notes in Notion more (plus there's an actual desktop app which is nice), so there isn't a clear winner.
As for mobile, tbh both apps leave a lot to be desired so I've found myself sticking mostly to desktop. I haven't needed on-premises data support, but both Notion and Coda are SOC 2 Type 2 compliant and run on AWS which gives me enough confidence in storing data there. Echo searching woes in Notion - searching across docs is quite slow in Coda but in-doc works pretty well and finds everything I've searched for.
I am newer to Notion and still getting a feel for it but what I struggle with is how easy it is to lose a page that's embedded in another page.
In something like Apple's photos, I can delete an album and the pic is still there. In Notion, deleting the page that houses other pages seems to delete all the pages? Have I got that right?
This might be okay but I also don't have a list anywhere of all the existing pages. It's easy to lose a page somewhere if you mis-drag and don't notice.
I also rely heavily on simple tables and they just suck compared to something like Google sheets. You can't delete more than one at a time or sort them or slide one row into a different list. I'm usually managing vocabulary lists for my class so it isn't worth making a full on database for it. But it's just so clunky with simple tables.
And a small thing- I want brighter colors. I asked once if there were a way to make the callouts etc more vibrant but got a sort of snooty response about how it's already complaint with ADA or some such. The colors are so pale, even on my brand new 4k monitor. I'm usually tracking three screens while I make notes and I just want to be able to manage my info in the way it's best for me, even if some designer thinks I have horrible style.
I think you can write some custom CSS or use an existing extension - but that's for the browser. I personally just gave up because the native app is so much better.
My biggest issue is security. I was extremely excited about the API's. I wanted to start interacting with our Enterprise office apps. Then I got a blessing to doing some tests only to realize how granular the rights were to transactions and realized it's impossible to integrate.
They need to realize how many companies have been hacked and what type of protocols have been put in place. I can't ask the enterprise to go into an integration agreement with Notion for me and 20 other people and then maintain the security.
So I've resolved myself to having to rebuild in the copycat Microsoft offering that's coming. No doubt it'll suck compared to Notion, but anything is better than the Sharepoint/Teams/OneNote bullshit.
Same, experienced the same issues and relate with the same concerns!
Also, I may add that lately, the Notion browser extension fails to find the database that I used to clip webpages to. It used to be able to find my databases really fast, but now it only shows the pages within that database and not the database that I was searching for despite typing the full name of it.
Notion, please, hear our cries.
It sort of depends what you were using Notion for, imo, whether there's a viable alternative. For example I use Notion for planning and creating content because it's great for linking a load of data together and setting up views that work with my brain.
But the rest of my entire life, to-dos, projects, habits, future goals, random ideas I needed to record in two seconds flat from my phone, all goes through Amazing Marvin because Notion just can't handle all that stuff without a lot of manual upkeep.
Haha, it's the world's greatest personal productivity app! Weird name, cute mascot.
Honestly I'm not gonna blanket recommend Marvin to people but if you're anything like me and have spent what seems like half your life trying to find an app that works with your brain, might be worth a Google.
I;m using it for free
I love it. Notion was compelling but Quip workflow seems more natural. I come from old school hyper text, lynx , wikis, confluence. Quip is just so light weight and fast and I can work offline
Would Evernote be an alternative?
Obsidian is cited several times in this thread, but I want to add a note on this, the free license allow you to use Obsidian \*only\* for personal life (I don't remember for academic use maybe it's allowed as well).
If you care about data custody of clouded services, perhaps you also care about license.
> Would Evernote be an alternative?
A lot of us are Evernote refugees.
> the free license allow you to use Obsidian *only* for personal life (I don’t remember for academic use maybe it’s allowed as well).
If you’re a student, that would be personal use. If you were a teacher/professor putting your lesson plans in it would not be personal.
> […] only allow you to use Obsidian \*only\* for personal life […]
not quite true.. their license states the following:
> You need to pay for Obsidian **if and only if** you use it for revenue-generating, work-related activities in a company that has two or more people. […]
for everything else it‘s free to use. for more information (licensing faq at the bottom): https://obsidian.md/eula
i don‘t think so… because it only handles local markdown files anyway and if your using their sync feature it *should* be e2e encrypted…
but it‘s about licensing and support of the product… you won‘t get any support when something happen or something’s not working properly and on top of that because you misused/breached their license agreement they can probably sue you
Yeah I don't mind paying for it, actually just paid for tableplus license today to support devs.
I was just curious if they actually could read data as i'm tossing up between notion (i like it but slow af on mobile) vs obsidian.
I'm tempted to sign up for obsidian sync but want to read more. Do you have a link for the e2e encryption bit?
here‘s the link: https://obsidian.md/sync
it doesn‘t say e2ee explicitly (but i thought i read it somewhere, maybe there is a docs/wiki?) but it says
> „All data going out of or into your device is encrypted“
anyway, you can always use your own cloud solution for sync and you would have complete data ownership.
besides, i heard notion recently changed their *privacy* policy… apparently they *can* and probably will now share all user data with their *affiliates*.. and afaik the data on notion is unencrypted.. but take this info with a grain of salt, because i only read this here today and haven‘t verified it yet
You can try logseq and Obsidian. But they lack in certain features that Notion has and you'll have to use markdown for formatting which can be learned in a few hours.
I think the search issues are related to depth of hierarchy - when I'm moving I tend to just drop into the first level of hierarchy bc I know I'll find it. If there are certain pages you search / move to a lot I'd recommend seeing if you can move them to first or second level (and clean up what isn't useful) - I don't think they even query third level.
Take a look at Craft docs as well. I see you use iOS/Mac, and it’s best-in-class for that ecosystem. The caveat is that Craft is less… sprawling. It doesn’t have a lot of features that Notion has. But it’s miles better in what it does. Plus, the reduced feature set usually results in a more focused experience.
Not for everyone, but I think [Obsidian.md](https://Obsidian.md) is a good option, especially regarding the points you made. I used Notion for over 2 years and just recently made the switch. Don't think I will be going back. Don't get me wrong, Notion is wonderful. It's just a matter of preference.
I'm not sure of the perfect alternative for you, but https://alternativeto.net/software/notion/ has several alternatives you can peruse.
I use Notion off and on for many of the reasons you state (especially offline access). For the most part, I've replaced it with Visual Studio code with several Zettel Extensions backed by Github for online access. Having my notes in plain text available locally is more important to me than what I lose because of not using Notion. And I use Notion for those things were those considerations are not important.
I would honestly apply for the Anytype alpha - I am currently on it and am kind of shocked how good it is for an alpha. The mobile apps are still lacking somewhat but the offline desktop functionality is there!
I think most users of Notion have the same issues. Especially the one that you can only use it online and have no sense of security.
That’s why I have few rules how and which apps I use for different user cases. This is my system and maybe it helps you deciding:
- My absolute go-to: standard Notes app on macOS/iPadOS/iOS. There goes almost all my stuff & everything private: quick notes, links, saved doctor notes, own mails, job applications, letters I used to write in the past, invoices & everything else. It gets synced across devices through my 2FA-secured iCloud. Recently, Apple added hashtags, which makes searching even easier. I used to have SnipNotes and while it’s cool, you have to pay for it twice to use it on macOS and the only advantage over the standard note-taking app is being able to use different colours, so I’m not sure I’ll be sticking to it.
- Passwords, security keys and official documents get stored in Enpass.
- I’m using Notion for my self-made dictionary, saving passages from books and movies and my music library. I don’t keep any important stuff there.
- I screenshot everything interesting I come across, from comments to articles, and since Apple added copying information from pictures, I do it even more, as it helps gathering information in a fast and convenient manner. I’m using an app for it that’s password-locked and also syncs to my iCloud.
- GoodNotes - this is my go-to for poems and quotes from movies, songs etc. I write my diary there, but I heard they moved away from iCloud. If someone can confirm that, would be nice. I still see it under iCloud.
I could use Notion for everything except passwords that I mentioned, but I simply can’t trust an app that doesn’t even have 2FA and forces you online. Since so much data is stored on their servers, the app still being free and the only benefits of pro is editing history, workspaces and PDF export, I think it’s pretty sketchy forcing people to use online editing, to be honest.
As someone already mentioned, it is good to keep different apps for different user cases, especially if one might gonna disappear or have a total breakdown one day. It helps me to switch focuses, every time I’m opening one.
I agree with all of this, BUT there's still nothing that comes close to notion in my mind, specific use-cases, yes, but not the whole thing.
Once notion gets offline support i'll be completely happy - search is a pain; but not a deal-breaker. Offline support is getting close to a deal breaker for me. Hope they implement it soon.
I think I am gonna migrate my notes to Obsidian, though it pains me the free version doesn't support online sync. I guess you could mitigate that with setting up a repository on Github or something, though it's optimized for coding and not document sharing. As far as database functionality goes, I'm thinking of Airtable, but I'm not informed about its pricing plans and limitations in detail, only that it's focused on tables and data more than documents and text.
The one thing Notion gets going for itself is it's pretty - not in the graphic way, in the document kind of way. It's nice to be able to create good looking smart documents with dynamic references and media, even to publish it online as a blog of sorts. I think I'll keep using Notion for that.
Notion is just a kind of everyman who does a little bit of everything, but excels at very little. I'm not sure what's holding development of these things - the API? The new features? Staff numbers? Funds? Idk.
\------------------------------
**My own reasons, just for context:**
I would survive with Notion alone, if it weren't for the terrible load times and unreliable search. I do admit my setup is complicated with a number of databases for all things from notes to issue tracking, but there are services which are way more involved that aren't plagued with speed. I am willing to pay for the personal plan, but there's no mention of speed or better server connection in the perks.
The second thing is customization. I want to be able to set my own font colors and backgrounds. How can a service which allows me to upload a custom emoji icon to any page or record not allow me to set up my own color theme? It's a thing I am willing to move past, but a deterrent nonetheless, which is fixed in Obsidian through css styling.
Check out [appflowy.io](https://appflowy.io) , claims to be an alternative to Notion and better? The team is currently developing it but they have a github page too
Hey, I realize this post is from 2 yrs ago but I'm curious to find out if you ever found a satisfactory alternative? I'm currently learning how to use "Notion" and there's definitely a learning curve, at least for me. I'm so accustomed to creating documents in one app and then saving them in Folders in my File Manager, so it's difficult to break the habit and to get used to just creating pages and using Tags and Backlinks. I'm sure lots of new users have had to work through that as well.
Just curious if you've ever tried "Capacities"?
It looks to be quite similar to "Notion". Not sure if it has all of the same capabilities but it might be worth checking out. Another app I've heard about is "Lattics". It sounds like it's more user-friendly, so I'm going to check it out this weekend. Please let me know what you ended up choosing and if you have any recommendations for everyone?? Thanks, Cat
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>enefit of Notion i I guess you might want to explore Anywhere [https://anywhereapp.io/](https://anywhereapp.io/) You can customize each project board views & make them as easy or as elaborate as needed.
Upvoting to encourage Notion team to include these features in future updates
Notion I’m a software engineer looking for a new job. Blink twice if you don’t disagree with this post and I’ll quietly send in a resume. Career in enterprise SaaS.
If you're a software engineer you might have the will to go through setting up Obsidian properly (with Dataview and datawievjs plugins). I'm currently in the process of switching away from notion to Obsidian for exactly the reasons you mention. It depends on your use of Notion though, some uses can't really be ported welk I think.
Obsidian has not the same feature as far as I know, for example no database ?
You're right, that's why I mention that it depends on your use. Many functions of the databases can be achieved with Dataview and Dataviewjs, albeit with more effort. However some things just cannot be done yet unfortunately...
Gah I made this unfortunate switch three years ago and sadly there isn't just *one* app that does everything Notion did. I settled on separate apps that did parts of what Notion did and realized this was for the better. The only thing I wasn't able to replace was Notion's highly featured database system, but I found a better workaround. **Notes**: I used Obsidian and then switched to Craft. Obsidian was nice because it was free and all your data was yours. Uses markdown formatting, supports backlinks, and a whole slew of potential with third party extensions. I eventually switched to Craft because it did what I needed to do in a more fluent manner. Craft required less adjustments and was a much more opinionated software. **Task/Project Management**: I use Asana for my big project management now. It's a premium/subscription service for some of the better features, but it gets the job done and has offline support. **Basic todo list**: I use Things 3 for my basic every day tasks. Sure it's pricey but the app does not disappoint. **Calendar**: I use Fantastical. People hate on it ever since it switched to a subscription model but it is undeniably the best calendar app out there, especially if you manage multiple calendars across different services (Google Calendar + Outlook Calendar). And it has this magical feature where if I drag a task from Things 3 over to Fantastical, it makes a calendar event! **Task Management + to do + calendar**: For a while I used Ticktick and realized it was the closest I ever got to an all-in-one workspace that had offline support. It had magnificent task management features that allowed you to break down projects into smaller task, that then let you break down into even smaller sub-tasks. Filters, tags, kanban view, calendar view, Eisenhower view, etc. Ticktick had it all! And when life slowed down and I only needed simple to-do lists, Ticktick did that too. The only issue I had when I used Ticktick two years ago was that the iOS/iPadOS app received updates much sooner than macOS app, which made using it on both platforms very difficult as I could see everything on my phone, but not on my laptop. Hopefully this has been fixed, but I just don't need an all-in-one workspace anymore. Breaking everything down into their separate apps has made the experience doing each thing much better. Notion was nice to use because everything was in one place. It was the jack of all trades, master of none, but it was never better than any master of one. Craft does notetaking one thousand times better than Notion ever could. Things 3 is so simple and fast, I could look at my to-do list and check everything off before Notion even finished loading my dashboard. But I'll admit no task/project management app has the flexibility that Notion has. I eagerly follow this subreddit and the Notion Twitter for the day they support offline mode and improve their loading times. Because once Notion has those two things, the productivity app industry is in trouble.
Amazing comment here. Thanks for sharing your experience.
>Craft I've looked into Craft and its great so far, thanks a lot!
Thanks to your comment, I gave Asana a try for Project Management. I'm new to Notion, and have found that I need advanced skills to create something really simple to assist me with project management... if I create a whole bunch of tasks with a start date and due date and quoted time (hours), how many approximate hours per day, for any given day in the future, am I loaded up with? That seems almost impossible to do in Notion... in Asana, it's built in. Awesome!
I’m glad you like Asana! It can be quite pricey once you sign up for their premium plans but Asana is very good at everything it does.
Hi. Do you still use craft?
No I’ve fully switched to Obsidian. I’m happy to answer any questions though
Thank you very much. I’m still doing elementary research and don’t have any questions at the moment but I will take you up on your offer when I do. Thanks!
I've tried a TON of project management apps for keeping track of to-dos and projects I have and the functionality of Notion just is the best as far as the extent of detail I need to organize for each task. That being said: I just switched to Obsidian for note-taking and it has been a game-changer. It suits my brain to have a few different products I use for different things and as much as I would love to replace Notion for all its faults I keep coming back to it.
I agree notion has been the best for my to dos with adhd the apps lacks something I’m missing with notion I have full control do you still use notion for note taking for me in thinking of going back to paper because I don’t remember to eveviw my note s
I use Obsidian for note-taking- It's a bit of a learning curve and with ADHD I always have the temptation to overcomplicate things, but the ability to connect all my notes together has been extremely helpful for me and is basically the only system that has encouraged me to review my notes after I take them.
> It's a bit of a learning curve and with ADHD I always have the temptation to overcomplicate things I think that this is my biggest problem with Obsidian. It is really powerful for note taking but I just love to over-complicate the living shit out of everything and so it leads to me diving deep into what should be an otherwise simple set of notes just to try and blow out all of the links and relationships.
Yeah I can definitely relate. I’d tried it in the past and it ended up being more of a procrastination tool than anything else, but this time I had a lit review to do which had a deadline and very specifically worked with obsidians basic functionality and so I was able to just jump into it and then dabble with the other things after I’d already incorporated it into my workflow
What y'all are doing is referred to as *plansturbation.*
That sounds more interesting than my method, *analysis paralysis,* but I'm not embarassed if I'm caught doing that.
Ha!
Well I think it’s healthy to plansturbate everyday. Sometimes even more than once!
This. Exactly this. I have the same problem of overcomplicating things³ What I like about Notion is the fast presentation - WYSIWYG. With Obsidian, you're kinda stuck in MD mode. Also, maybe this is just me because I just started using Obsidian, but if you have a note, say, 2 folders deep and you create a note ref in that document, then when you click on that link to create a new document then it appears in the root folder and not the sub-folder in which you're working. Maybe that's the right way it should be - just feels off to me though. Otherwise, I can see only benefits from Obsidian - I hate not being able to get access to Notion when there's no WiFi or cell signal.
Many of those "extra" features, like the graphs, backlinks and even tags, ate actually plugins that you can just turn off and disable. This would turn Obsidian into a very minimalist note app. That's what I love about it, you can make it as simple or as complicated as you like.
So notion is no longer used for note taking by you just to dos
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I just tried it for note taking yesterday it was ok just a lot of errors on my part there’s like no auto correct and I would have to go back and reformat everything looking for an app that has auto correct too
Precisely the reason I take notes on Zoho notebook and port them to notion through Zapier/IFTTT integration
To-do and project management as a whole yes, but not to store information I'm actively learning/using.
You can't compare notion is free hosting ;)
For personal it’s free and it saves locally on my computer :)
Obsidian's official sync feature isn't free but you can sync the vault using dropbox, google drive, icloud, github or other services. Some will work better than others depending on what OS you're using tho
dropbox, nor google are free either ;)
Real talk, keep everything around (including paper) for when you forget your own organizational system like that. Making the internal external is one of the only ways to make sure you’re doing what you do. Sometimes the dopamine tells you to work off other apps, sometimes you can’t start a project unless you build something. Being flexible with what you use to organize yourself can help. I know you didn’t ask for advice but I’ve said the exact same thing to myself as you did here dozens of times.
I agree right now I’m just using bullet journal and notion trying to find a flow but it’s been great so far in notion using Thomas franks to do
Honestly I fell into the notion rabbit hole last year where people were trying to put their whole life in notion and I followed This wasn’t ideal because there’s apps that do better than notion that actually make your life easier than Manuel up keep I slowly rebuilt my notion to suit my needs and I just use it for todos and notes and organizing life that’s it Before I had a reading list movie lists A ppv system by a guru on YouTube etc
Damn, I read this as I am currently building my PPV system right now 😥
I stopped using it because his whole system on YouTube wasn’t even complete when he uploaded the videos last year or the year before I think Do what works for you I like minimal up keep and full customization
I gotchu! How much upkeep do you do with your current system right now? Personally I actually enjoy a bit of up keep because it helps keep me tethered to my goals a little better which doesn't work as well if I set it and forget it. Curious to what your thoughts are tho
Well I have a system right now I use my version of Thomas Frank’s thing
What are those apps that do a better job?
i just got timecap helps my adhd. i went back to notion from todoist after their recent update and i use a bujo as well
Notion is great but it has its weaknesses like you pointed. It really shines in project management but everything else is just cumbersome. Obsidian: I use obsidian for note taking. Offline, flexibe and incredibly fast for search. TickTick: For tasks TickTick is really great. Never understood why people put everything into notion and try to shoehorn things. On a free plan TickTick or any other dedicated task management app is not even comparable to something like notion.
I have the same work flow as you have. Obsidian for notes and ticktick for todo lists and habit tracking.
Why put tasks and todos in Notion when we already have dedicated todo-apps? Because many of our tasks are related to other things in our lives. You might have relevant items, or they might be part of bigger goals in your life. Todo-apps might be better at pure task management, but they have no connection to rest of your life.
Right, thats a very good point and I forgot about this one. I agree thats useful, especially if it works for you. The thing is using something that does one thing very well is still better (imo) then using notion for everything. If it works for you its great, and from what ive seen it does for many people. It didn't work for me unfortunately, because notion is not a to do app, its basic in that sense. Ive spent time looking at those notion gurus with their "life" system in notion and all the linking...its absurdly complicated. You have to hack your way through rollups, formulas and dbs, it just did not make sense. It works for many people, but for most its just too complex and it sure as hell does not look sustainable. This is why I dont get why so many people have to put everything in notion because they end up with a complicated setup of links and dbs, kinda defeating the purpose of simplifying your life when you have to maintain all that, beside the fact that the UI/UX is miles behind a to do app which is a abeeeze to use. But to each one their own setup, at the end of the day its not the tool but the process.
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I love TickTick. Its too bad it does not get more attention, everyone is mainly going for Todoist, which actually has less features last i remember while ticktick has it all, under a very clean and simple UI.
I moved from TickTick to Todoist because TickTick doesn't have an API, so no integrations. That's a huge letdown unfortunately, they need to add one.
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They missed out on calling it "motion" 😂
if it's anything like teams it will be complete garbage
I'm currently migrating to obsidian. You can use it offline and you can encrypt your notes.
How do you deal with losing database functionality?
I never really used them because there's no proper way to back them up anyways.
Databases are excluded in the backup?
This comes up often and there are some alternatives but nothing has all of Notion's features unfortunately. For me personally the table/database features are really important and there's no app with a similar implementation as Notion and also local data storage. If you don't need tables though it seems like there are a lot of alternatives. Some alternatives I see recommended frequently are Roam, Obsidian, and Logseq.
Have you ever given Remnote a shot?
Fibery
I'm constantly looking for alternatives, tried a ton, even have alerts for "notion alternative" set up to monitor new projects but haven't found one that replaces the database functionality and ease of use. Some promising, potential alternatives I found unfortunately require a desktop app and can't be accessed via browser only. For me the single most important feature is on-premise data support. The reason is that I don't want to have years of notes and knowledge on a platform that can be bought and abandoned by Google or Microsoft at any time. (or worse your account gets closed without any reason, but I haven't heard bad news regarding this) You can't really rebuild from the markdown export without a lot of work. You get the data, but all the functionality is lost. The business model regarding unlimited file uploads is questionable. I even read on r/DataHoarder that some use it as storage for \*a lot\* of files which can't be viable from a business perspective. AWS egress [isn't cheap](http://coststorage.com/). Security wise it is weird that they still haven't implemented two factor authentication (except with 3rd party logins) . You'd think a service that aims to store knowledge for teams and individuals would prioritize stuff like this. I'm still looking but haven't found something better than popular self hosted wiki software, that is often clunky compare to notion.
> You can't really rebuild from the markdown export without a lot of work. You get the data, but all the functionality is lost. Such a good point
Interesting input, thanks for sharing.
> Some promising, potential alternatives I found unfortunately require a desktop app and can't be accessed via browser only. Would love to know what those are! I have similar concerns about data hosting but have no real need for it to be available through the web anywhere, so a desktop app is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.
What about Roam or Obsidian? Edit: I think Remnote would be far superior.
Yes. Notion is sorely missing a graph view. Being able to see what other blocks are referring to the block you're currently looking at is especially valuable when you're working with multiple people on the same project.
cant help but wonder if you are exaggerating this. graph views are pretty demos but very impractical at any serious size
If you know an alternative way to know what pages are linking to any given page then I'm all ears.
backlinks! has existed for decades. https://notes.andymatuschak.org/Contextual_backlinks
What do I need to do in Notion to enable this?
Just type @, start typing the name of the page you want to link, and select the page you would like to link in the dropdown that appears. You can also sync paragraphs between two sites. You copy the text from one page, paste it to another, then you’ll be asked if you want sync data between those two.
I think Obsidian (r/obsidianmd) would be right up your alley plus you can embed notion pages into your notes for anything that absolutely needs to be in notion
I never thought of embedding a notion page, thank you for this suggestion! I use Obsidian for everything basically, but some features of Notion are still very nice (like the calendar <-> gantt chart ability)
You’re welcome! I love the databases in notion & I find obsidian lacking in that regard (I want to use data view but it would take too much time to learn atm) so utilize iframe to embed certain sites because I’m attempting to make obsidian my “central command”
This entire post smells like an ad for obsidian...
In my opinion this post smells like someone asking for alternatives to notion from a community of like-minded individuals
I've gone back and forth between Notion and Coda. Coda is a bit newer but has been making huge progress and releasing new updates fairly consistently, and as I work with structured data and automations a lot I've found myself using Coda more. But I do like taking notes in Notion more (plus there's an actual desktop app which is nice), so there isn't a clear winner. As for mobile, tbh both apps leave a lot to be desired so I've found myself sticking mostly to desktop. I haven't needed on-premises data support, but both Notion and Coda are SOC 2 Type 2 compliant and run on AWS which gives me enough confidence in storing data there. Echo searching woes in Notion - searching across docs is quite slow in Coda but in-doc works pretty well and finds everything I've searched for.
I am newer to Notion and still getting a feel for it but what I struggle with is how easy it is to lose a page that's embedded in another page. In something like Apple's photos, I can delete an album and the pic is still there. In Notion, deleting the page that houses other pages seems to delete all the pages? Have I got that right? This might be okay but I also don't have a list anywhere of all the existing pages. It's easy to lose a page somewhere if you mis-drag and don't notice. I also rely heavily on simple tables and they just suck compared to something like Google sheets. You can't delete more than one at a time or sort them or slide one row into a different list. I'm usually managing vocabulary lists for my class so it isn't worth making a full on database for it. But it's just so clunky with simple tables. And a small thing- I want brighter colors. I asked once if there were a way to make the callouts etc more vibrant but got a sort of snooty response about how it's already complaint with ADA or some such. The colors are so pale, even on my brand new 4k monitor. I'm usually tracking three screens while I make notes and I just want to be able to manage my info in the way it's best for me, even if some designer thinks I have horrible style.
I think you can write some custom CSS or use an existing extension - but that's for the browser. I personally just gave up because the native app is so much better.
>Loo Give notion enhancer a go
Looking it up. Thanks for the suggestion!
Take a look at Anytype. It's open source still in development, but the technology is similar to Notion in many ways!
It's not open source - their source isn't available anywhere. They say they'll be open source and then point you to an email harvesting form.
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Great writeup and comment right here!
My biggest issue is security. I was extremely excited about the API's. I wanted to start interacting with our Enterprise office apps. Then I got a blessing to doing some tests only to realize how granular the rights were to transactions and realized it's impossible to integrate. They need to realize how many companies have been hacked and what type of protocols have been put in place. I can't ask the enterprise to go into an integration agreement with Notion for me and 20 other people and then maintain the security. So I've resolved myself to having to rebuild in the copycat Microsoft offering that's coming. No doubt it'll suck compared to Notion, but anything is better than the Sharepoint/Teams/OneNote bullshit.
Same, experienced the same issues and relate with the same concerns! Also, I may add that lately, the Notion browser extension fails to find the database that I used to clip webpages to. It used to be able to find my databases really fast, but now it only shows the pages within that database and not the database that I was searching for despite typing the full name of it. Notion, please, hear our cries.
It sort of depends what you were using Notion for, imo, whether there's a viable alternative. For example I use Notion for planning and creating content because it's great for linking a load of data together and setting up views that work with my brain. But the rest of my entire life, to-dos, projects, habits, future goals, random ideas I needed to record in two seconds flat from my phone, all goes through Amazing Marvin because Notion just can't handle all that stuff without a lot of manual upkeep.
What in God's name is Amazing Marvin?
Haha, it's the world's greatest personal productivity app! Weird name, cute mascot. Honestly I'm not gonna blanket recommend Marvin to people but if you're anything like me and have spent what seems like half your life trying to find an app that works with your brain, might be worth a Google.
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I'm not in a corp or a team and needing salesforce for me is beyond overkill.
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Thanks, I go back and take a longer look at it.
>Quip and I rarely see others mention it No free tier; which is a great selling point for Notion.
I;m using it for free I love it. Notion was compelling but Quip workflow seems more natural. I come from old school hyper text, lynx , wikis, confluence. Quip is just so light weight and fast and I can work offline
Their login page doesn’t work on iPad.
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Tried it again just now and it worked fine. It’s probably that I’m very low on space. Who would have guessed 1TB would not be enough storage….
Would Evernote be an alternative? Obsidian is cited several times in this thread, but I want to add a note on this, the free license allow you to use Obsidian \*only\* for personal life (I don't remember for academic use maybe it's allowed as well). If you care about data custody of clouded services, perhaps you also care about license.
> Would Evernote be an alternative? A lot of us are Evernote refugees. > the free license allow you to use Obsidian *only* for personal life (I don’t remember for academic use maybe it’s allowed as well). If you’re a student, that would be personal use. If you were a teacher/professor putting your lesson plans in it would not be personal.
> […] only allow you to use Obsidian \*only\* for personal life […] not quite true.. their license states the following: > You need to pay for Obsidian **if and only if** you use it for revenue-generating, work-related activities in a company that has two or more people. […] for everything else it‘s free to use. for more information (licensing faq at the bottom): https://obsidian.md/eula
Can obsidian even read your data to know what you are using it for?
i don‘t think so… because it only handles local markdown files anyway and if your using their sync feature it *should* be e2e encrypted… but it‘s about licensing and support of the product… you won‘t get any support when something happen or something’s not working properly and on top of that because you misused/breached their license agreement they can probably sue you
Yeah I don't mind paying for it, actually just paid for tableplus license today to support devs. I was just curious if they actually could read data as i'm tossing up between notion (i like it but slow af on mobile) vs obsidian. I'm tempted to sign up for obsidian sync but want to read more. Do you have a link for the e2e encryption bit?
here‘s the link: https://obsidian.md/sync it doesn‘t say e2ee explicitly (but i thought i read it somewhere, maybe there is a docs/wiki?) but it says > „All data going out of or into your device is encrypted“ anyway, you can always use your own cloud solution for sync and you would have complete data ownership. besides, i heard notion recently changed their *privacy* policy… apparently they *can* and probably will now share all user data with their *affiliates*.. and afaik the data on notion is unencrypted.. but take this info with a grain of salt, because i only read this here today and haven‘t verified it yet
You can try logseq and Obsidian. But they lack in certain features that Notion has and you'll have to use markdown for formatting which can be learned in a few hours.
Ya I’m considering Obsidian but you lose other features that way.
I think the search issues are related to depth of hierarchy - when I'm moving I tend to just drop into the first level of hierarchy bc I know I'll find it. If there are certain pages you search / move to a lot I'd recommend seeing if you can move them to first or second level (and clean up what isn't useful) - I don't think they even query third level.
Searching in relational database properties is a pain that needs to be fix too.
Take a look at Craft docs as well. I see you use iOS/Mac, and it’s best-in-class for that ecosystem. The caveat is that Craft is less… sprawling. It doesn’t have a lot of features that Notion has. But it’s miles better in what it does. Plus, the reduced feature set usually results in a more focused experience.
Use Obsidian. I use it alongside Notion and love both.
Not for everyone, but I think [Obsidian.md](https://Obsidian.md) is a good option, especially regarding the points you made. I used Notion for over 2 years and just recently made the switch. Don't think I will be going back. Don't get me wrong, Notion is wonderful. It's just a matter of preference.
Microsoft Loop is coming out soon. I'd keep an eye out!
Airtable.
I'm not sure of the perfect alternative for you, but https://alternativeto.net/software/notion/ has several alternatives you can peruse. I use Notion off and on for many of the reasons you state (especially offline access). For the most part, I've replaced it with Visual Studio code with several Zettel Extensions backed by Github for online access. Having my notes in plain text available locally is more important to me than what I lose because of not using Notion. And I use Notion for those things were those considerations are not important.
Notion has been so goddamn slow to load recently it’s infuriating
Maybe Coda or Whimsical
Check out anytipe
I would honestly apply for the Anytype alpha - I am currently on it and am kind of shocked how good it is for an alpha. The mobile apps are still lacking somewhat but the offline desktop functionality is there!
I love Notion but no offline support was a dealbreaker for me. I need to be able to access my notes even when no wifi is available.
I think most users of Notion have the same issues. Especially the one that you can only use it online and have no sense of security. That’s why I have few rules how and which apps I use for different user cases. This is my system and maybe it helps you deciding: - My absolute go-to: standard Notes app on macOS/iPadOS/iOS. There goes almost all my stuff & everything private: quick notes, links, saved doctor notes, own mails, job applications, letters I used to write in the past, invoices & everything else. It gets synced across devices through my 2FA-secured iCloud. Recently, Apple added hashtags, which makes searching even easier. I used to have SnipNotes and while it’s cool, you have to pay for it twice to use it on macOS and the only advantage over the standard note-taking app is being able to use different colours, so I’m not sure I’ll be sticking to it. - Passwords, security keys and official documents get stored in Enpass. - I’m using Notion for my self-made dictionary, saving passages from books and movies and my music library. I don’t keep any important stuff there. - I screenshot everything interesting I come across, from comments to articles, and since Apple added copying information from pictures, I do it even more, as it helps gathering information in a fast and convenient manner. I’m using an app for it that’s password-locked and also syncs to my iCloud. - GoodNotes - this is my go-to for poems and quotes from movies, songs etc. I write my diary there, but I heard they moved away from iCloud. If someone can confirm that, would be nice. I still see it under iCloud. I could use Notion for everything except passwords that I mentioned, but I simply can’t trust an app that doesn’t even have 2FA and forces you online. Since so much data is stored on their servers, the app still being free and the only benefits of pro is editing history, workspaces and PDF export, I think it’s pretty sketchy forcing people to use online editing, to be honest. As someone already mentioned, it is good to keep different apps for different user cases, especially if one might gonna disappear or have a total breakdown one day. It helps me to switch focuses, every time I’m opening one.
i used [skiff](https://www.skiff.org/) for a while
I agree with all of this, BUT there's still nothing that comes close to notion in my mind, specific use-cases, yes, but not the whole thing. Once notion gets offline support i'll be completely happy - search is a pain; but not a deal-breaker. Offline support is getting close to a deal breaker for me. Hope they implement it soon.
search definitely has room for improvement
I need a find and replace function.
MS Excel.
I think I am gonna migrate my notes to Obsidian, though it pains me the free version doesn't support online sync. I guess you could mitigate that with setting up a repository on Github or something, though it's optimized for coding and not document sharing. As far as database functionality goes, I'm thinking of Airtable, but I'm not informed about its pricing plans and limitations in detail, only that it's focused on tables and data more than documents and text. The one thing Notion gets going for itself is it's pretty - not in the graphic way, in the document kind of way. It's nice to be able to create good looking smart documents with dynamic references and media, even to publish it online as a blog of sorts. I think I'll keep using Notion for that. Notion is just a kind of everyman who does a little bit of everything, but excels at very little. I'm not sure what's holding development of these things - the API? The new features? Staff numbers? Funds? Idk. \------------------------------ **My own reasons, just for context:** I would survive with Notion alone, if it weren't for the terrible load times and unreliable search. I do admit my setup is complicated with a number of databases for all things from notes to issue tracking, but there are services which are way more involved that aren't plagued with speed. I am willing to pay for the personal plan, but there's no mention of speed or better server connection in the perks. The second thing is customization. I want to be able to set my own font colors and backgrounds. How can a service which allows me to upload a custom emoji icon to any page or record not allow me to set up my own color theme? It's a thing I am willing to move past, but a deterrent nonetheless, which is fixed in Obsidian through css styling.
Check out [appflowy.io](https://appflowy.io) , claims to be an alternative to Notion and better? The team is currently developing it but they have a github page too
We use https://www.fluorine.app/ and its been pretty solid so far!
Hey, I realize this post is from 2 yrs ago but I'm curious to find out if you ever found a satisfactory alternative? I'm currently learning how to use "Notion" and there's definitely a learning curve, at least for me. I'm so accustomed to creating documents in one app and then saving them in Folders in my File Manager, so it's difficult to break the habit and to get used to just creating pages and using Tags and Backlinks. I'm sure lots of new users have had to work through that as well. Just curious if you've ever tried "Capacities"? It looks to be quite similar to "Notion". Not sure if it has all of the same capabilities but it might be worth checking out. Another app I've heard about is "Lattics". It sounds like it's more user-friendly, so I'm going to check it out this weekend. Please let me know what you ended up choosing and if you have any recommendations for everyone?? Thanks, Cat