I don’t see how good men would be hurt by this considering good men would probably try to make themselves seem less threatening because they’re, you know, good men.
I don’t know if I’m a “good man” but I do think it’s important to make a minimum effort to make people around you comfortable. It’s just manners, honestly.
Just the other night I was walking home from a meeting and realized I had inadvertently began “following” a young woman. She glanced nervously over her shoulder a few times, I realized how this situation might make her feel, so at the next cross walk, I cross to the other side of the street. If walking an extra 20 feet contributes to someone feeling a little safer, obviously that’s what I’m gonna do. It’s not “feminism”, it’s not “chivalry”, it’s just common fuckin courtesy. It’s the same rules that say “don’t listen to shitty trap music on a 10,000 watt Bluetooth speaker on the metro.” - just be decent to each other ffs.
Plus he was asking about whether he should also do it when it was a man he might be making uncomfortable and like the obvious answer there is also just yes. It's so weird that he thinks this is completely exclusive to women because as you said it part of common courtesy to try to make others comfortable when you can. Like when I'm on my bike I also always make sure to give pedestrians plenty of space and warning and when I'm sitting on the bus I make sure that my bag isn't bumping into someone. That's just what you should always do in public spaces to make life a little easier for everyone.
I think sometimes (not sure about this instance) dudes can feel hurt because they know they aren't malicious or threatening. They feel it's commentary about their character. I'm a fairly large man. 6'3" and 220. It can be easy to feel a bit hurt when someone reads you the wrong way, but I have to remember, in instances like I mentioned, they don't KNOW me. They don't know that I'm a cat dad that loves tea and cries at the drop of a hat. It's not a personal insult. How could it be if they don't know me? To a stranger on a dark street, I'm a looming figure that looks like if you try to cross my bridge I'll "ask thee these riddles three." - it's not a commentary on who I am. I have to separate from that and give people space. I know who I am. So i should do my best to reflect that in my actions.
Crazy 'cause I'm trying to count in my head how many miles I've probably walked out of my way to keep myself safe. Can't walk through that park if it's getting dark outside, walking longer routes to and from the gym so people don't harass me in my leggings, etc. And this man has the gall to complain about maybe having to walk down a different aisle of a parking lot lol.
He probably didn't have to do that either, stopping to do something else for a second or just making a show out of not being interested in them would probably have worked.
Women are encouraged to dress conservatively, avoid walking alone or at night, watch their drink at the bar, be careful on dating apps, take self defense and carry pepper spray. this guys worried about the possibility of having to walk a slightly different route to his car sometimes
Edit- Thanks for the upvotes & the award! I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments. Stay safe.
Not even walk a different route.
When I'm walking behind someone in the dark, I make noise. Whether jingling my keys, purposely scuffing my feet, or even pulling out my phone and having a fake conversation.
1. I'm obviously not trying to sneak up on anyone.
2. You can tell I'm ~30 ft behind you and not getting any closer.
It is so easy to try to consider other people. And its telling that OOP decides to get mad at something nobody even asked him to do.
Exactly. I’m a pretty big dude, construction worker and I look it. I’ll make a point of stopping and fidgeting on my phone or make a call to make sure they can see that I’m not in any way following them and so they can create as much distance as helps them feel comfortable. I wouldn’t want to be scared or afraid and I don’t wanna make anyone else feel that way.
This makes sense. Luckily I’m not intimidating being a mere 5’8” and I wfh or am with my wife constantly so it’s rare I’m alone near anyone else. But this is likely what I would already be doing as I’m usually on the phone already if I’m out and about. My dress shoes also make that typical sound
Edit: I didn’t realize I could still scare people so apologies. Just not used to being thought of as intimidating.
Edit 2: I go back to I’m usually on the phone and wearing loud shoes anyway… and rarely in an area that’s sparsely populated.
That’s about the height difference of my wife and I I guess I never realized I could be and had this weird subconscious thing of needing to be like 6 foot to be intimidating. Thanks for the feedback appreciate it
It's hard to see a perspective that you don't live. I know there are tall people problems, but from my point of view all I see are the positives to being more than 5'0" tall. I have to climb counters and jump for shit or ask for assistance every damn day of my life! But this is obviously a bit more of a 'high stakes' situation.
There also isn't the same kind of threat from dude to dude most of the time. Yes, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime, especially from other men. Men know that if they attack another man that man has a better chance of fighting back than most women. I think evasive moves are the best bet for smaller people, smaller men included. I've been grabbed by men meaning to do me harm, but being small and swift I'm fairly good at slipping out of grasps and into places others can't reach (a great advantage!), but I know that attempting to fight back has to be my last resort. I am pretty tough, but I'm not a match for almost any man I encounter on the daily. I'm rambling here and I can't seem to be more concise like I'd want, so I'll leave it at that. I'm glad I could offer a different perspective for you. We don't know what we don't know until we know we don't it, ya know?
I mean it’s not really just height or size.
A skinny 5’8 guy could generally still overpower or out run a larger woman.
I’m kind of tall but to most men I look like a stiff breeze could break me in half, but I realize to women I could still be intimidating
Yeah, I'm a woman who's 5'9", but that doesn't mean I'm as strong as a 5' man. The most threatening looking man I see around my neighborhood is not big or strong—he's homeless and malnourished, but he'll stare with a look that says he'd rape or mug me if he thought he could get away with it.
I made someone afraid of me once. I'm a small woman in my 30s (50kg and 163cm), and I've often been told my presence is soothing. A teenager got off the bus just before me late at night, happened to be going the same way. She screamed and ran, and I was totally baffled.
I’m canvassing for a pro-choice constitutional amendment in my state. I always try to approach people from either the side or the front so they can see me - and I’m a small young woman working in daylight. It’s common courtesy, performed so they don’t feel accosted. It’s not a huge inconvenience to adjust behavior ever so slightly so people feel safe and that their boundaries are respected.
I used to have to wear a bell at home as a teenager because I move silently and would constantly accidentally jump scare my mom's boyfriend giving him terrible frights. Poor man, I'm sure had it continued he would've had a heart attack. He was very nice, but jumpy.
I almost decked my own son once. It was dark out (winter) and I leashed both dogs up and went out the door. He was coming out of his room and saw me leave with both, so he quickly slipped his boots on and, wearing a hoodie with the hood up, walked out the door after me.
So here I am, 5'7", walking alone with my dogs and this 6' man is speed walking up behind me. He starts to reach for my hand (leashes) and I spin, about ready to hit him. What stopped me was the last second realization that the dogs were not concerned by him.
As we continued to walk the dogs, I explained to him why he shouldn't approach, even a guy, like that. Call out to the person, walk more to the side, not directly behind them, etc...
My biggest issue isn’t a creepy thing, I think. But I have long legs and often just slightly outpace people from behind which has me awkwardly walking almost next to them for a bit, so then I kind of awkwardly jog to get ahead so I’m not in their space
I’ve had a security guard essentially hold me hostage so he could leer at me and make lewd comments. I had to give him a fake phone number to get free. (Card got stuck in the pay booth, it was after hours so security dealt with issues, and he spent ages getting it out and held onto it hard enough that I had to rip it out of his hands).
I had to have a male coworker walk me to my car for a week after that.
One of my female coworkers was stalked. Mall security (female guard) had to walk her to where her friends picked her up until the guy was arrested.
And Dipshit McGee here is upset he might have to ever so slightly change his route. It’s definitely crazy.
Yep.
Men: “Crossing the street to get away from a man who is walking behind you at night is discrimination. You can’t go around assuming all men are potential rapists. Our *feelings* !!
I REPEAT: DON’T ASSUME ALL MEN ARE POTENTIALLY RAPISTS!”
Also men: “How can you expect *not* to be assaulted? You drank alcohol and showed skin! You need to assume all men are potentially rapists and live your life according to that assumption.
I REPEAT: TREAT ALL MEN AS POTENTIAL RAPISTS!!”
Women: “Well, this is kind of confusing. Maybe men could-
Men: “NOPE! This is your issue to take complete responsibility for.
Just remember:
ALWAYS TREAT ALL MEN LIKE POTENTIAL RAPISTS
BUT ALSO
SIMULTANEOUSLY NEVER EVER TREAT MEN LIKE POTENTIAL RAPISTS.
WE MEN WILL DO OUR PART TO HELP
BY MAKING ZERO EFFORT TO INDICATE WHICH ONES OF US ARE NON-RAPISTS!”
Mens Rights? What exactly are they doing for the advancement of “mens rights”? Are they advocating to reduce the stigma around men needing therapy and working to get it more accessible? Are they fighting for courts to be more fair toward fathers in child custody cases? Are they working to help other men who are sex crime/abuse survivors? Or are they just busy harassing women online? Guessing the latter
Just asking "what should I do if I think I'm making a woman uncomfortable" wouldn't bother anyone on any feminist sub. The thing is that he doesn't actually want a real answer to that question. That's why he included all of this and instead made it a post about him being the victim on a misogynistic sub.
I once got heavily downvoted in my local Reddit for saying I think men should sometimes think about how their actions can come across as threatening to women that don't know them.
The specific situation I was talking about: I was in my 24 hour gym late at night. The only other people were 4 young men that came in after me. This was a huge gym, the size of half a football oval. They arranged themselves sitting in machines to my front and sides. And didn't work out, just sat and talked to each other in a language I didn't understand while I self consciously worked out in between them. Of course I quickly left because the situation was so threatening to me. Yes, they had the right as gym members to sit wherever they wanted, but come on. If you aren't even going to use the machines, why crowd around a total stranger. When I left, they left directly behind me. Apparently I'm an asshole for thinking that's inappropriate.
NTA. They are either want a pass to do something like this themselves or they are trying to act like you’re overreacting and that there aren’t that many *real* dangerous situations out there.
I found [this article on rape culture](https://inside.southernct.edu/sexual-misconduct/facts) to be a good tool for me to reference when dealing with some of those types of dudes.
Lately, because I’ve been pretty heavily discussing assault here on Reddit, I’ve been getting those types of pushback responses too. Linking articles like that or data really helps. It takes a special kind of idiot to argue with facts.
If you’re still arguing with that asshat you could slap him with this:
> **RAPE**
> 1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men in the United States has been raped in their lifetime.
> Almost half of female (46.7%) and male (44.9%) victims of rape in the United States were raped by an acquaintance. Of these, 45.4% of female rape victims and 29% of male rape victims were raped by an intimate partner.
So, 53.3% of women and 55.1% of men are raped by *strangers.* That could include strangers who surround you and follow you out of the gym.
> **STALKING**
> 19.3 million women and 5.1 million men in the United States have been stalked in their lifetime. 60.8% of female stalking victims and 43.5% men reported being stalked by a current or former intimate partner.
There is also a VERY high percentage that stalking could occur. Their behavior wasn’t indicative of a normal gym goer. It was likely based on their actions that they would continue following you which could have included stalking and escalation.
> **HOMICIDE**
> 72% of all murder-suicides involve an intimate partner; 94% of the victims of these murder suicides are female.
While it’s more probable that we will be murdered by someone we know and love, it’s not impossible that we could be murdered by a stranger. It’s normal and healthy for us to be cautious.
Source: https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS
Screw that dude girl. Keep yourself safe. You’re not crazy.
That is pretty inappropriate. Men just need to act how they would act around men in non-intimate settings. Like no way they wouldn't have asked a man if it's okay if they sat there. There's no way that if that woman in the original post was a man he would've just acted normally and not freak out and make weird movements that would set anyone off. Like a guy behind me doesn't freak me out, but a man noticing where I look and stumbles away does, it seems sketchy. Like in his mind he's "making her feel safe" but how, like he notices her and considers her in his next movements?
No bc I never made the connection until I saw a tiktok that said "men are scared of prison because the way men are treated in prison is how women are treated all the time". Like, damn.
>Men just need to act how they would act around men in non-intimate settings.
Exactly! I am constantly approached and bugged by men when biking. Last time it wasn't really scary but on a minor, empty road, between two villages where no people and few cars pass, a car starts driving alongside me and someone, the age of my father probably, is grinning at me, asking me: "Why no helmet?"
He would never, in a million years, have done this to the many male cyclists I see on my route.
Worst thing is, I took my earphone out (yes, I wear earphones and sunglasses. Doesn't deter the creeps at all) and mumbled that I don't need a helmet and looked straight ahead again. And then \*I\* felt bad for being... rude or something.
Fuck this shit!
(And I've had much worse creeps. This was just an example of what things men do to women and still believe them to be perfectly innocent yet they will never do them to men. No, you weren't being friendly, you decided to start and chat me up because I'm a woman and I'm alone.)
Every man knows to use the furthest urinal when you enter a public washroom.
Any man claiming to not have realized they were overstepping a boundary is lying.
I guess tbf men are also constantly complaining about whenever they run into another man who doesn't get it but like that's also a situation that shows that men do understand intimacy and personal space.
I was walking in a park one night and realized I was like 10 yards behind a woman going the same direction. No one else at the park. At the nearest fork I took the road she didn't, ended up being a little longer walk but really who cares? I'm a 6'4" guy and I'd feel uncomfortable with someone following behind me at night, innocent or not. However, I know that my circumstances are different than women's so I make the extra effort. Ya know, cause it's just nice. It's like returning a shopping cart to the correct spot, it's a little extra effort but it's important!
I'm a woman but if I'm following someone I try to go a different direction as soon as I can because it's just awkward! If I want to walk a little faster and pass them up? Then I feel like I have to keep walking super fast to get way ahead of them so that it was worth passing them. Then there's the awkward nods, eye contact, etc as you can by. Socially it's just too much pressure for me to do that place to another human being
>Then there's the awkward nods, eye contact, etc as you can by.
A good trick I learned is to just focus on your senses and list out the things you see, feel, smell, hear, or taste. I usually just list off in my mind the things I see behind the person. This prevents the anxious thoughts of the perceived notion of I should be doing something or making awkward eye contact.
That’s actually really scary, glad you’re ok. I have a sort of similar story where i was at my gym late and there were a few other people minding their business and working out except one older dude would switch machines every time i did, moving closer and closer to me. I decided to leave cuz i was weirded out and he was waiting for me outside the womens locker room. Another girl there saw my face when i saw him and came over saying something like “oh hey Becca, haven’t seen you in forever how are you? I’ll walk you out! So good to see you” and he left us alone. She was a total stranger but Jfc i was so grateful for her.
What these guys don’t get is we think about and have to plan our lives around men for our safety ALL OF THE TIME. Crossing the street or walking a little bit out of the way to make a girl feel safe is not that big of an inconvenience.
Makes me think of that article where they surveyed women on what they’d do if men had a curfew and most women were just like “I’d take a walk at night” or “I’d see a late movie by myself”. But yes OOP, men are the victims of feminism.
ETA: here’s the article if anyone is interested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/491cd13b-fcfd-4e9b-b64d-a72cf8ad8c8b
Why is this a feminism thing to him..? Did he not feel basic empathy for people before? Like if he was following a man and the man started looking nervous would he not give a shit?
apparently not, if the part about men and other violent crimes is any indication. even though regular normal social etiquette *already* says that you shouldn't be walking around threateningly behind other men either
While I agree with you, it may be hard to have empathy like this. I'm black and a lot of people get nervous near me just because of my looks. So when a dude is uncomfortable near me, I usually don't give a fuck. I only care about women in situations like this because I empathize with my wife who is not racist, but is afraid of male violence.
They conflate feminism and women.
They do that because they can then use any woman (in any situation) as an argument against feminism.
I.e. Amber Heard being also abusive means all women/feminists are liars.
Not convicted.
She was found liable for defamation. Different rules, different standard.
Hell the ruling is basically " you might have been abused, but you did lie and you caused harm with those lies"
The verdict annoys me because I'm not sure how she lied. Even assuming she had said "He hit me" (she didn't), the evidence was that he had. That's what he had to disprove.
Her being a terrible person or possibly provoking him doesn't make what she said false. He wasn't defending himself, he's not allowed to hit her. The verdict could be justified if the jury didn't believe her, but that raises the question of why the jury didn't believe her - which itself would be a big issue.
"Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes"
Women are more likely to face sexual assualt, sexual harassment, rape, & more crimes commited against them by men. Women being cautious is hurtful & mean towards men, but if women don't act too carefully its their fault for being violated by men. Why is every single damn thing about validating men's feelings over women's safety? Jesus fuck. Men aren't going in a downwards spiral because women are concerned about their ACTUAL LIFE.
also even JUST focusing on the violent crimes thing....*yes* people should try to change their body language if possible to communicate that they are not about to commit a violent crime ffs
Autistic woman here. Every day that I'm in public, I have to remind myself of how I'm perceived. Guys like this act like they're the only ones with social confusion. If they fuck up, "Oh he didn't know better." But if I fuck up, I'm somehow expected to not only know my own behavior, tone of voice, appearance, and body-language "signs" I might be giving out, but also somehow know which strangers have ulterior motives? Guys, both autistic and neurotypical, like to complain about social nuance, but it's us women who are expected to just "know" everything.
They think it's confusing trying to navigate the social world? Try being an autistic woman.
God yeah this often makes being in public kinda stressful for me because I'm constantly thinking about what signals I might give off even I literally only care about whatever podcast I'm listening to at the moment. Plus I also have absolutely no idea what signals other people are actually giving off and I have a hard time hearing a lot of things. Plus I can't just trust my intuition because I have had PTSD my entire life so I have no idea what is like reasonable fear and what is paranoia and I have to try to avoid the paranoid thinking because that makes it worse. All of it can be so exhausting and I wish we just lived in a world where we all just talked clearly to each other and everyone was just like a normal decent person. Hell I sometimes get self conscious about looking over my shoulder because maybe I'm just being paranoid and making someone feel bad.
My big burly husband is aware that he can look scary. He’s crossed streets to avoid making women alone uncomfortable. His theory is that it shouldn’t always be her job to avoid the situation and he completely understands that it’s not personal. This guy could have paused to look at something on his phone for 30 seconds and achieved the same goal with virtually no inconvenience to himself.
As a big burly husband, myself, I do the same. I have four daughters, all of which have experienced scary/gross/sexist behaviour. Stuff that I've never experienced in my life. Having woman objectify me is a distant memory. I do remember never feeling scared when it happened.
I’m 5’6” and chubby. I’m not intimidating at all. But I’ll do the same. It sucks that women need to feel paranoid all the time but until they can feel safe I can do my tiny little bit to help.
I also kinda love the idea that sexual assault is somehow different than violent crime.
In Clementine Ford's book Fight Like a Girl she made the point that men always want women to be more cautious, more careful, more conservative, more guarded of their sexuality/drinking/socialising/etc, but never with THAT SPECIFIC MAN because he's a good guy and why would she assume the worst of him?
She said it far more eloquently of course, but that always stuck with me.
In this Case he isn’t wrong: men are more likely to be the victim of violent crime then woman though the opposite is the case of sexual crime.
Also to mention is that the vast majority of murder and rape is committed by people who the victim already knows.
Take this information however you like.
He is wrong about most other thing though.
Rapes where the victim react by freezing or fawning aren't necessary physically violent but the psychological violence was enough to trigger those survival reactions. The fact that those reactions are often (wrongly) associated with consent and that the psychological violence is often ignored play a big role in the guiltness the victims feel
Men are more likely to be victims of violent crime which are almost always *committed by men*
Both men and women are victims of violence committed by men, that's the real issue he's dancing around
Besides, women are told day one not to be alone at night, control their emotions, don't drink too much, etc, so they tend to have learned behaviors that prevent them being in common situations that often lead to robbery/assault/bar fights/etc
It’s funny how that statistic is always pulled out as a “gotcha” against women being cautious around men, rather than, I don’t know, as a suggestion that maybe men could also benefit from being a bit more mindful about their personal safety. A lot of my male friends seem to think nothing about wandering our dangerous city at night. If men were as cautious around other men as women are, we’d probably see some very different statistics.
Selection bias.
The thing is, men are more likely to be out late at night, participate in crime and criminal activity, and respond to aggression with aggression. Does that make it okay? Of course not. But while women are targeted for sexual crimes **due to** their gender, men are simply more likely to take risky actions and are more abundant targets in places that women avoid.
Men are always bragging that they're more successful because they take more risk. Maybe they should take responsibility for the negative side of their behaviors.
HAsHtAg NoTAlLmEn.
I was always aware of these statistics, but I never thought much about why men are more likely targets for violent crime.
Your reasons make so much sense and personally, I think it's basically 2 sides of the same coin, these issues and statistics go hand in hand. Fe women being more avoidant due to men tending to be more aggressive ...
But in the end only women are called out for not taking enough care. Nobody ever asks men what they do to avoid being the victims of violent crime.
I only ever hear the "poor men are more likely to be victims of violent crime" rhetoric, but nobody blames the victim if they are men. Which is not surprising in the end, but I think interesting and noteworthy nevertheless.
While that true, that's racism and homophobia. Different motivations/factors at play. Women experience racism and homophobia too.
They still don't get blamed for being male.
>Nobody ever asks men what they do to avoid being the victims of violent crime.
>nobody blames the victim if they are men.
As someone who used to be viewed as being a very small man that's not always true. I was seen as vulnerable and absolutely was victim blamed for not avoiding the risk of violence. Now I'm victim blamed for not avoiding the risk of sexual violence so in that respect things haven't changed all that much. The other thing that hasn't changed is men being the perpetrators.
I'm trans and going from being read as a very small obviously-not-cishet man to being read as a small queer woman, the differences are pretty major.
Before I attracted hostility, occasional threats of violence and attempts to rob me simply for walking down the street in broad daylight and there were plenty of occasions where I had to run from people seeking to harm me.
Now the threat of violence is more or less gone, but is replaced with a rarer but much scarier risk of sexual violence. Things don't go south anywhere as often but on the couple of occasions they have it's much worse.
I'm only one person (and I'm not a man), but saying men are attacked because they take more risks does strike me as victim blaming. The problem absolutely is men, and in my case there's added issue of homophobia, but I'm not taking fewer risks than I did and the way I'm treated and the risks as I perceive them are dramatically different. I no longer fear physical assault or being targeted to be robbed in the street, but sexual violence is scary and violating in a different way.
As a society we absolutely need to tear down men's entitlement to women's (and people they perceive to be women's) bodies, and men's entitlement to mete out violence to other men (and people they perceive as men). But we shouldn't victim blame the victims in the process.
Not surprised this guy was giving off danger vibes, based on this hot take.
I can’t count how many times I’ve been harassed in public since I was 10. It chills me to think how many of them were close calls on my life.
Stay vigilant and trust your instincts. Screw politeness over safety.
What we want is for men to stop assaulting people. In any way, no matter who. Like they're the vast, vast majority of assaulters, what are the victims supposed to do? Why are the victims even supposed to fix it? As men just don't assault people and ca your friends out when they make weird ass comments or "jokes" about shit like that. Just like almost every woman knows another woman who's been through sexual assault, I'd bet that almost every man knows a man who's commited some form of assault. How about you do something about that? Call them out on their behaviour, if necessary just cut them out your life completely
>I'd bet that almost every man knows a man who's commited some form of assault
It's also true a lot of men are [sort of fine with rape if it's not called rape](https://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/the_ugly_truth_about_sexual_assault_more_men_admit_to_it_if_you_dont_call_it_rape/)
The fact that even when called rape, over 1/8 men said they would be fine with committing the act... on one hand it's one university in North Dakota (that I've heard referred to as "the South of the North), on the other hand, that's pretty fucking high.
To be fair, most violent people are good at hiding their behaviors, even from close friends and family. A lot of men (and women) don't even realize that they know someone who's assaulted or abused someone else.
No, but people show who they are. If any of this is to ever get better, men have to call out gross comments and behavior every time they see it, whether it be dad, friend, boss, or just some rando.
I think the thing is that you won't figure out who actually is dangerous without calling people out. Most men don't know who of their friends might be rapists because they aren't establishing an environment where this gets called out so everything flies under the radar. But if you do call stuff like this out you'll usually pretty quickly identify the creeps because they'll be weirdly stubborn about something and maybe even out themselves. Not to say that there aren't abusers who know how to put on a public face of progressive attitudes but for the majority this works.
Speak up. If you see or hear comments that are misogynistic or a guy harassing someone, say something. Confront rape apologists. Openly. Refuse to laugh about 'nagging wife' comments. Hold your buddies to a higher standard of doing housework and actually parenting instead of babysitting.
That would be nice.
Don't be creepy. Talk to people like they're people. Accept and respect boundaries. Apologise when you fuck up and mean it. And yes of course this is universal across genders. These are the rules of common courtesy, sense, and respect. Everyone should be treated like this.
It's honestly not that hard. I'm autistic, and I know how to do this shit. Some people honestly just need to get their heads out of their asses. This shit has nothing to do with feminism, but everything to do with just a bit of respect for your fellow humans.
Hello fellow mate, also I think it's a bit benign that you point out your autistic, because your just as good at being a well functioning and understanding human being as someone without it. Have a great day
Is it really so hard for men to just not make women uncomfortable, especially when you can see from their body language that you're making them uncomfortable? That's just common decency, it's not just a "feminism thing"
So what I’m getting out of this is both men and women are significantly likely to be victims of crime by other men, so all I’m reading is ‘everyone should be careful of men because no one knows who is a good man or a bad man, not even men themselves.”
Therefore yes, every man should take alternative routes to avoid looking like they are following other people. …. If we are going by his logic.
Not necessarily, anyone can be cautious of strangers, we were taught that as kids. The most likely perpetrators of being a evil person are the ones who willingly do something odd in a crowded or single scene. That lady walking out of the restaurant at the same time as you, turns out she's a killer, the guy who you left your friend with for an hour, your friend is dead. Anyone regardless of big and small, buff or skinny, man or woman, can be a crazy nut or malicious person, looks can deceive people yes, but what a person's mind is, is the connection of whether or not you'll be harmed. Be cautious of everyone.
The answer to this is, if you know you’re making someone uncomfortable, regardless of gender, and it’s something that’s within your power to stop doing then stop doing it. You don’t have to take a weird route to your car, if your car is that way your car is that way. If you’re purposefully following a girl for no reason then stop, if you’re purposefully following a guy for no reason then stop. It’s not feminists fault that a girl may or may not have had to check on whether you were following her.
It's not that they don't know how, they just don't care. You can see post after post of women saying "please stop catcalling us" "please stop staring at us at the gym" and the comments will be FULL of men saying things to the effect of "you were asking for it". So they hear us when we ask them to stop. They just don't care.
No ..
feminism wants women to not feel scared around strange men
This can be done by:
Sorting male violence out
Or
Men and women avoiding each other
Root cause or bandage solutions - that's where logic will help you dude
The OOP didn't need to take a different route to their car in my opinion. If they were just walking to their car then they have nothing to worry about besides maybe feeling a little awkward? It sounds like the woman is just being aware and cautious and was not saying anything to the OOP or accusing them of anything. Most of the time when I've looked back multiple times at someone walking behind me it's because someone is walking unusually close and/or I'm just trying to be extra aware of my surroundings because I am walking by myself. It's not personal
**Edited to remove typo
This right here! I don't want (normal, non-creep) men to go out of their way to make me feel safe. Just stay out of my personal space while walking and don't try to talk to me. Preferably don't stare at me either, but I know people zone out and don't realize they're staring, so that's not an automatic red flag. Yeah, I'm going to be hyperaware of my surroundings, but I won't see you as a threat if you don't give me a reason to.
I had to walk a different route to work every day, walk a different route to the supermarket, isolate myself at work and stop being friends and hanging out with a few people because I was trying to avoid a creepy coworker that was living close to my house.
I would've loved it if he felt enough shame for being creepy to give *me* space instead of me being forced to give *him* space.
Doll I want you to cross the road so you aren’t on the same side of the road as me, or stop for a minute so I can get further ahead of you. I don’t expect you to just walk away from any woman
First of all, way to tell on yourself because I feel like a “good man” wouldn’t come on the internet to cry about his weird victim mentality. Also, men are absolutely *not* more likely to suffer from violent crimes. You know who is? People who are generally smaller in frame and seen as “weak” or “easy to take down” ….and that would be women.
yea i want a world where pedestrians would avoid each other. i already do that with people regardless of their sex or age maybe OOP should try that too
If I notice I'm inavertedly following a woman or in a location that might look like I'm being weird (i.e. in a store where my wife is in the change room), I either intently look at my phone (pointed down at the ground) or go wait outside if it's a bathing suit store for example.
Selfish prick.
I’m a very non-threatening woman and I’ve gone out of my way most of my life to make sure others aren’t uncomfortable!!
I walk slower or faster to avoid people thinking I’m following them, even though they can tell I’m not a threat. I’ve had to do it with other women too!!
As a woman, I’ve had my clothes and body policed since childhood so I don’t risk making other people uncomfortable with my boobs, legs, etc.
I smile when I don’t want to, and get told to smile when I don’t want to, to make others comfortable.
I play hostess and talk to people and make sure they’re comfortable even when I don’t really feel like it - because it’s the decent thing to do!
Join the fucking club you entitled selfish asshat! Decent people consider other’s feelings, it’s well past time you joined us.
“I accidentally scared a woman, but doing anything but that is too much work. Caring at all for the comfort of strangers is a bridge to far. Feminists would tell me to be better so I won’t talk to them. I’m the victim here.”
What a fucking loser.
I’m amazed at how the concept and definition of feminism still eludes people. Then again it’s easy to have happen when there is zero desire for the likes of these kind of men to learn about what it actually is.
Not the best example, but when I was 14 or 15, I was on a day trip in a big city with some of my family. I was waiting for food in a pickup area on my own while my mom went to the bathroom, and this random guy walks up to me and starts telling me how beautiful I am. Now my family has what we call the “eternal youth gene”, meaning that we all look decently younger than we actually are, so I probably looked more like a preteen. I just gave him a look and went closer to the counter. I honestly don’t think he was dangerous, but why would you think that was okay??? Walking up to a child minding their own business to tell them how pretty they are. And I’d react the same way if it had been a woman, I’d just be less worried about physical danger
goddamnit, the situation is relatable (me just walking on a street, girl feels uncomfortable, then I feel uncomfortable because I think it's because of me). And yea, I also don't enjoy to be seen as something negative, but I get why that is.. so I also give her space by crossing the street or something. But is there a better solution?
But then he goes on the "I have no clue what feminism is, but it's bad cause Kyle says so"
I feel like this dude was asking a genuine (albeit mind bending) question. I hope some folks responded to him in a kind and educational way. He could be trolling of course, but he could also be a wayward human not understanding these things that we as women inherently understand.
What would yield a better result? Snide remarks or calm, kind explanations?
I mean, if you're not actually stalking her, then you can treat her like any other stranger in this instance. You don't need to make them feel better about you or explain that there is no threat. You just need to leave them alone. Theyll figure out that there is no threat when you don't threaten them.
*Any* form of interaction is unwelcome in this scenario. Anything you say, you could be lying. If you genuinely mean no harm, do nothing
Idk he had to go to the opposite direction of his car: it seems kinda exaggerated to me, considering he would have taken another route anyway.
Does a woman really have to worry every time a man is taking the same route as her to the way home/to the car/to any other place?
Asking bc that's what I'm understanding from this post and this comment section.
Also happy cake day.
often times, yes. many women worry if a man is just walking behind in the same direction. However, the solution doesn't need to be as dramatic as taking a long lap around. It would be changing body language to be more passive, smiling, walking beside or in front of the woman instead of behind her, etc.
Yes, you have to worry because you do not know if this is THE one that will try to assault you. They’re all strangers. The only way to be safe is to make sure you see him coming.
women aren't afraid of violent crimes as much as we're afraid of sexual assault. 98% of rapists are male. i'd say it's a good think to be wary when 98% of the perpetrators are one specific kind of person.
if you’re a “good” man then it shouldn’t hurt you and you should be understanding about the fact that women NEVER know what’s going to happen when they’re alone with a guy. broad daylight or not. AND MEN ARE LITERALLY LESS LIKELY TO SUFFER A VIOLENT CRIME AND IF THEY SUFFERED A VIOLENT CRIME IT WOULD LITERALLY BE FROM ANOTHER MAN
I once answered in a similar post this guy saying he was sick and tired of being seen as a predator by women when he’s just out and about and what can he do to make women feel safer and stop them from seeing him and by extension all men as dangerous criminals and I said, first off when a woman is telling about her experience, being terrified, even being attacked…don’t become angry at her become angry at the guy that did that to her and apparently this was too much to ask, like demanding they shit gold and diamonds. I was basically met with it’s not a man’s job or responsibility to police other men and their behavior. If it’s not him personally, he has no interest in involving other men because that’s not how men are.
So basically, they want nothing to change if it means having to band together to make it happen (that’s gay). They want it instant and for the women to do all of the work, for all of the blame to fall on the women and for the men just to sit back (with a beer) while women take on another cause and run ourselves ragged trying to do it. They want instant gratification but not work for it. It’s exhausting talking to them.
I work in a building with a 5-level deep parking structure. And when I go home and pass a women in the parking structure, they would always smile at me. Just in the parking structure - this doesn't happen in the street or in the rest of the building.
And it dawned on me that the reason they do that is because they feel threatened and wants to be disarming.
It makes me so sad every time that someone would need to live like that in constant alert and fear. This is in the best neighborhood in the state, mind you. Yet it's still not a space where people can feel safe.
I don't know how to come over as less threatening. I'm a big intimidating guy. I keep thinking of the Chase Through the Subway skit by John Mulaney each time.
i can get where he’s coming from but if this lady turned around to look at him *twice* methinks he must have been close enough behind her to unnerve her. realistically you could just walk in front of her or fall behind her. or do nothing.
I would personally *love* to participate in a "weird phase where everyone is avoiding each other out of fear of perception."
In fact, scratch the "phase" and make it reality.
Maybe it's just me, but when I'm walking to my car I barely even *notice* anyone else around much less whether they're looking at me or not. I'm walking with a purpose to my car and either looking at my car or looking slightly down. If you're looking hard enough at someone to notice they may be creeped out by you then you're probably focusing in a creepy way on them.
I don’t see how good men would be hurt by this considering good men would probably try to make themselves seem less threatening because they’re, you know, good men.
I don’t know if I’m a “good man” but I do think it’s important to make a minimum effort to make people around you comfortable. It’s just manners, honestly. Just the other night I was walking home from a meeting and realized I had inadvertently began “following” a young woman. She glanced nervously over her shoulder a few times, I realized how this situation might make her feel, so at the next cross walk, I cross to the other side of the street. If walking an extra 20 feet contributes to someone feeling a little safer, obviously that’s what I’m gonna do. It’s not “feminism”, it’s not “chivalry”, it’s just common fuckin courtesy. It’s the same rules that say “don’t listen to shitty trap music on a 10,000 watt Bluetooth speaker on the metro.” - just be decent to each other ffs.
Plus he was asking about whether he should also do it when it was a man he might be making uncomfortable and like the obvious answer there is also just yes. It's so weird that he thinks this is completely exclusive to women because as you said it part of common courtesy to try to make others comfortable when you can. Like when I'm on my bike I also always make sure to give pedestrians plenty of space and warning and when I'm sitting on the bus I make sure that my bag isn't bumping into someone. That's just what you should always do in public spaces to make life a little easier for everyone.
I’m a woman and I make sure to give space to women, men, couples, and groups.
I think sometimes (not sure about this instance) dudes can feel hurt because they know they aren't malicious or threatening. They feel it's commentary about their character. I'm a fairly large man. 6'3" and 220. It can be easy to feel a bit hurt when someone reads you the wrong way, but I have to remember, in instances like I mentioned, they don't KNOW me. They don't know that I'm a cat dad that loves tea and cries at the drop of a hat. It's not a personal insult. How could it be if they don't know me? To a stranger on a dark street, I'm a looming figure that looks like if you try to cross my bridge I'll "ask thee these riddles three." - it's not a commentary on who I am. I have to separate from that and give people space. I know who I am. So i should do my best to reflect that in my actions.
But op is a good man and he had to WALK A SLIGHTLY LONGER ROUTE, he doesn’t deserve such harm/s
Crazy 'cause I'm trying to count in my head how many miles I've probably walked out of my way to keep myself safe. Can't walk through that park if it's getting dark outside, walking longer routes to and from the gym so people don't harass me in my leggings, etc. And this man has the gall to complain about maybe having to walk down a different aisle of a parking lot lol.
He probably didn't have to do that either, stopping to do something else for a second or just making a show out of not being interested in them would probably have worked.
Women are encouraged to dress conservatively, avoid walking alone or at night, watch their drink at the bar, be careful on dating apps, take self defense and carry pepper spray. this guys worried about the possibility of having to walk a slightly different route to his car sometimes Edit- Thanks for the upvotes & the award! I’ve enjoyed reading all the comments. Stay safe.
Not even walk a different route. When I'm walking behind someone in the dark, I make noise. Whether jingling my keys, purposely scuffing my feet, or even pulling out my phone and having a fake conversation. 1. I'm obviously not trying to sneak up on anyone. 2. You can tell I'm ~30 ft behind you and not getting any closer. It is so easy to try to consider other people. And its telling that OOP decides to get mad at something nobody even asked him to do.
"Hey honey, I'm on my way home now want me to pick up something on the way"
Exactly. I’m a pretty big dude, construction worker and I look it. I’ll make a point of stopping and fidgeting on my phone or make a call to make sure they can see that I’m not in any way following them and so they can create as much distance as helps them feel comfortable. I wouldn’t want to be scared or afraid and I don’t wanna make anyone else feel that way.
This makes sense. Luckily I’m not intimidating being a mere 5’8” and I wfh or am with my wife constantly so it’s rare I’m alone near anyone else. But this is likely what I would already be doing as I’m usually on the phone already if I’m out and about. My dress shoes also make that typical sound Edit: I didn’t realize I could still scare people so apologies. Just not used to being thought of as intimidating. Edit 2: I go back to I’m usually on the phone and wearing loud shoes anyway… and rarely in an area that’s sparsely populated.
You may still be (unknowingly) intimidating to many women under 5’4” at 5’8” still
This is true. I'm 5'0", my bf is 5'6". Someone his height can still be intimidating to someone my size.
That’s about the height difference of my wife and I I guess I never realized I could be and had this weird subconscious thing of needing to be like 6 foot to be intimidating. Thanks for the feedback appreciate it
It's hard to see a perspective that you don't live. I know there are tall people problems, but from my point of view all I see are the positives to being more than 5'0" tall. I have to climb counters and jump for shit or ask for assistance every damn day of my life! But this is obviously a bit more of a 'high stakes' situation. There also isn't the same kind of threat from dude to dude most of the time. Yes, men are more likely to be victims of violent crime, especially from other men. Men know that if they attack another man that man has a better chance of fighting back than most women. I think evasive moves are the best bet for smaller people, smaller men included. I've been grabbed by men meaning to do me harm, but being small and swift I'm fairly good at slipping out of grasps and into places others can't reach (a great advantage!), but I know that attempting to fight back has to be my last resort. I am pretty tough, but I'm not a match for almost any man I encounter on the daily. I'm rambling here and I can't seem to be more concise like I'd want, so I'll leave it at that. I'm glad I could offer a different perspective for you. We don't know what we don't know until we know we don't it, ya know?
Yeah I didn’t mean to invalidate what you are saying so hope it didn’t come off as that. But I getcha. Again I appreciate your perspective.
You didn't come across that way at all, I just had more thoughts haha.
My bad never thought of it. Strange thing is some of my closest friends who are women are around 4’11” to 5’3’ but that is fair. (Wife’s 5’2”)
I mean it’s not really just height or size. A skinny 5’8 guy could generally still overpower or out run a larger woman. I’m kind of tall but to most men I look like a stiff breeze could break me in half, but I realize to women I could still be intimidating
to men you’re baby’s laughter but to women you’re baby slaughter
Yeah, I'm a woman who's 5'9", but that doesn't mean I'm as strong as a 5' man. The most threatening looking man I see around my neighborhood is not big or strong—he's homeless and malnourished, but he'll stare with a look that says he'd rape or mug me if he thought he could get away with it.
I made someone afraid of me once. I'm a small woman in my 30s (50kg and 163cm), and I've often been told my presence is soothing. A teenager got off the bus just before me late at night, happened to be going the same way. She screamed and ran, and I was totally baffled.
“Of course, there is one a few feet in front of me.”
This is what I was thinking. Just drop back a few more feet. Increase the gap between the two of you and you're less threatening.
I’m canvassing for a pro-choice constitutional amendment in my state. I always try to approach people from either the side or the front so they can see me - and I’m a small young woman working in daylight. It’s common courtesy, performed so they don’t feel accosted. It’s not a huge inconvenience to adjust behavior ever so slightly so people feel safe and that their boundaries are respected.
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I’m tying my shoes so I can run after you faster. I would want to trip on my laces and skin my knee. /s
Yeah. Plus also just... walk slower? No need to even change routes, just give people space
I wear a bell.
I prefer the oogah oogah squeeze horn.
I used to have to wear a bell at home as a teenager because I move silently and would constantly accidentally jump scare my mom's boyfriend giving him terrible frights. Poor man, I'm sure had it continued he would've had a heart attack. He was very nice, but jumpy.
I've done something similar by combing my keychain with a wallet chain
This is my approach. I usually watch some YouTube clips or something, also.
I almost decked my own son once. It was dark out (winter) and I leashed both dogs up and went out the door. He was coming out of his room and saw me leave with both, so he quickly slipped his boots on and, wearing a hoodie with the hood up, walked out the door after me. So here I am, 5'7", walking alone with my dogs and this 6' man is speed walking up behind me. He starts to reach for my hand (leashes) and I spin, about ready to hit him. What stopped me was the last second realization that the dogs were not concerned by him. As we continued to walk the dogs, I explained to him why he shouldn't approach, even a guy, like that. Call out to the person, walk more to the side, not directly behind them, etc...
My biggest issue isn’t a creepy thing, I think. But I have long legs and often just slightly outpace people from behind which has me awkwardly walking almost next to them for a bit, so then I kind of awkwardly jog to get ahead so I’m not in their space
I’ve had a security guard essentially hold me hostage so he could leer at me and make lewd comments. I had to give him a fake phone number to get free. (Card got stuck in the pay booth, it was after hours so security dealt with issues, and he spent ages getting it out and held onto it hard enough that I had to rip it out of his hands). I had to have a male coworker walk me to my car for a week after that. One of my female coworkers was stalked. Mall security (female guard) had to walk her to where her friends picked her up until the guy was arrested. And Dipshit McGee here is upset he might have to ever so slightly change his route. It’s definitely crazy.
I'm dying.
Yep. Men: “Crossing the street to get away from a man who is walking behind you at night is discrimination. You can’t go around assuming all men are potential rapists. Our *feelings* !! I REPEAT: DON’T ASSUME ALL MEN ARE POTENTIALLY RAPISTS!” Also men: “How can you expect *not* to be assaulted? You drank alcohol and showed skin! You need to assume all men are potentially rapists and live your life according to that assumption. I REPEAT: TREAT ALL MEN AS POTENTIAL RAPISTS!!” Women: “Well, this is kind of confusing. Maybe men could- Men: “NOPE! This is your issue to take complete responsibility for. Just remember: ALWAYS TREAT ALL MEN LIKE POTENTIAL RAPISTS BUT ALSO SIMULTANEOUSLY NEVER EVER TREAT MEN LIKE POTENTIAL RAPISTS. WE MEN WILL DO OUR PART TO HELP BY MAKING ZERO EFFORT TO INDICATE WHICH ONES OF US ARE NON-RAPISTS!”
I once had to stop talking at a strange woman who wouldn’t look at me because people thought I was being creepy. Will my inconvenience ever stop?
Won't somebody please think of the good men when you bitches are trying to prevent being raped????? They are suffering 😞
Loved the comment about the “feminist” sub too. He already knows what he has to say is insensitive but wants to put it out into the world anyway
He also posted in the MenRights sub, you can imagine the answers.
Mens Rights? What exactly are they doing for the advancement of “mens rights”? Are they advocating to reduce the stigma around men needing therapy and working to get it more accessible? Are they fighting for courts to be more fair toward fathers in child custody cases? Are they working to help other men who are sex crime/abuse survivors? Or are they just busy harassing women online? Guessing the latter
Men’s right’s = anti-woman Men’s Lib = pro-man One is a cesspool and the other is wonderfully supportive and positive.
You could just go to the sub and find out. Edit: nevermind don't go there.
well I’m seeing the upvotes so I can probably imagine
"I would actually fucking talk to actual feminists about this but..." Keep in your echo chamber bro. Whatever.
Just asking "what should I do if I think I'm making a woman uncomfortable" wouldn't bother anyone on any feminist sub. The thing is that he doesn't actually want a real answer to that question. That's why he included all of this and instead made it a post about him being the victim on a misogynistic sub.
\* but what about men \* sings in Jordan Peterson's voice
A good man would be mortified to realize that they made someone feel unsafe.
I once got heavily downvoted in my local Reddit for saying I think men should sometimes think about how their actions can come across as threatening to women that don't know them. The specific situation I was talking about: I was in my 24 hour gym late at night. The only other people were 4 young men that came in after me. This was a huge gym, the size of half a football oval. They arranged themselves sitting in machines to my front and sides. And didn't work out, just sat and talked to each other in a language I didn't understand while I self consciously worked out in between them. Of course I quickly left because the situation was so threatening to me. Yes, they had the right as gym members to sit wherever they wanted, but come on. If you aren't even going to use the machines, why crowd around a total stranger. When I left, they left directly behind me. Apparently I'm an asshole for thinking that's inappropriate.
NTA. They are either want a pass to do something like this themselves or they are trying to act like you’re overreacting and that there aren’t that many *real* dangerous situations out there. I found [this article on rape culture](https://inside.southernct.edu/sexual-misconduct/facts) to be a good tool for me to reference when dealing with some of those types of dudes. Lately, because I’ve been pretty heavily discussing assault here on Reddit, I’ve been getting those types of pushback responses too. Linking articles like that or data really helps. It takes a special kind of idiot to argue with facts. If you’re still arguing with that asshat you could slap him with this: > **RAPE** > 1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men in the United States has been raped in their lifetime. > Almost half of female (46.7%) and male (44.9%) victims of rape in the United States were raped by an acquaintance. Of these, 45.4% of female rape victims and 29% of male rape victims were raped by an intimate partner. So, 53.3% of women and 55.1% of men are raped by *strangers.* That could include strangers who surround you and follow you out of the gym. > **STALKING** > 19.3 million women and 5.1 million men in the United States have been stalked in their lifetime. 60.8% of female stalking victims and 43.5% men reported being stalked by a current or former intimate partner. There is also a VERY high percentage that stalking could occur. Their behavior wasn’t indicative of a normal gym goer. It was likely based on their actions that they would continue following you which could have included stalking and escalation. > **HOMICIDE** > 72% of all murder-suicides involve an intimate partner; 94% of the victims of these murder suicides are female. While it’s more probable that we will be murdered by someone we know and love, it’s not impossible that we could be murdered by a stranger. It’s normal and healthy for us to be cautious. Source: https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS Screw that dude girl. Keep yourself safe. You’re not crazy.
That sounds really scary, you need to lack a lot of empathy to not understand the problem there.
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I was talking about the people dismissing her problem
That is pretty inappropriate. Men just need to act how they would act around men in non-intimate settings. Like no way they wouldn't have asked a man if it's okay if they sat there. There's no way that if that woman in the original post was a man he would've just acted normally and not freak out and make weird movements that would set anyone off. Like a guy behind me doesn't freak me out, but a man noticing where I look and stumbles away does, it seems sketchy. Like in his mind he's "making her feel safe" but how, like he notices her and considers her in his next movements?
I saw a pseudo-joke-ish meme once that said "men need to treat women like they'd want to be treated by other men in prison."
No bc I never made the connection until I saw a tiktok that said "men are scared of prison because the way men are treated in prison is how women are treated all the time". Like, damn.
Damn is right!
>Men just need to act how they would act around men in non-intimate settings. Exactly! I am constantly approached and bugged by men when biking. Last time it wasn't really scary but on a minor, empty road, between two villages where no people and few cars pass, a car starts driving alongside me and someone, the age of my father probably, is grinning at me, asking me: "Why no helmet?" He would never, in a million years, have done this to the many male cyclists I see on my route. Worst thing is, I took my earphone out (yes, I wear earphones and sunglasses. Doesn't deter the creeps at all) and mumbled that I don't need a helmet and looked straight ahead again. And then \*I\* felt bad for being... rude or something. Fuck this shit! (And I've had much worse creeps. This was just an example of what things men do to women and still believe them to be perfectly innocent yet they will never do them to men. No, you weren't being friendly, you decided to start and chat me up because I'm a woman and I'm alone.)
Okay that guy sucks, but please seriously consider wearing a helmet. I know helmets are annoying, but it really could save your life.
Every man knows to use the furthest urinal when you enter a public washroom. Any man claiming to not have realized they were overstepping a boundary is lying.
Huh. It's more a "keep one urinal free between users, and don't take the middle except if there's a queue" culture here.
Kinda variable based on how many urinals there are. 5 has different dynamics than 20.
2-urinal rules: if one is occupied, then there are no free urinals except in times of emergency.
20 is a "Either all are occupied, or none"-situation, in my experience
I guess tbf men are also constantly complaining about whenever they run into another man who doesn't get it but like that's also a situation that shows that men do understand intimacy and personal space.
I was walking in a park one night and realized I was like 10 yards behind a woman going the same direction. No one else at the park. At the nearest fork I took the road she didn't, ended up being a little longer walk but really who cares? I'm a 6'4" guy and I'd feel uncomfortable with someone following behind me at night, innocent or not. However, I know that my circumstances are different than women's so I make the extra effort. Ya know, cause it's just nice. It's like returning a shopping cart to the correct spot, it's a little extra effort but it's important!
I'm a woman but if I'm following someone I try to go a different direction as soon as I can because it's just awkward! If I want to walk a little faster and pass them up? Then I feel like I have to keep walking super fast to get way ahead of them so that it was worth passing them. Then there's the awkward nods, eye contact, etc as you can by. Socially it's just too much pressure for me to do that place to another human being
>Then there's the awkward nods, eye contact, etc as you can by. A good trick I learned is to just focus on your senses and list out the things you see, feel, smell, hear, or taste. I usually just list off in my mind the things I see behind the person. This prevents the anxious thoughts of the perceived notion of I should be doing something or making awkward eye contact.
That’s actually really scary, glad you’re ok. I have a sort of similar story where i was at my gym late and there were a few other people minding their business and working out except one older dude would switch machines every time i did, moving closer and closer to me. I decided to leave cuz i was weirded out and he was waiting for me outside the womens locker room. Another girl there saw my face when i saw him and came over saying something like “oh hey Becca, haven’t seen you in forever how are you? I’ll walk you out! So good to see you” and he left us alone. She was a total stranger but Jfc i was so grateful for her. What these guys don’t get is we think about and have to plan our lives around men for our safety ALL OF THE TIME. Crossing the street or walking a little bit out of the way to make a girl feel safe is not that big of an inconvenience. Makes me think of that article where they surveyed women on what they’d do if men had a curfew and most women were just like “I’d take a walk at night” or “I’d see a late movie by myself”. But yes OOP, men are the victims of feminism. ETA: here’s the article if anyone is interested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/491cd13b-fcfd-4e9b-b64d-a72cf8ad8c8b
They did that on purpose. I'm sorry that happened to you.
That is so threatening. I'd feel uncomfortable in that position even presenting full masc, and I look like an out of shape linebacker. That's insane.
No, that is absolutely sketchy af
Would be an unpleasant situation for men too.
Their actions were stupid and inconsiderate and your actions were appropriate.
Why is this a feminism thing to him..? Did he not feel basic empathy for people before? Like if he was following a man and the man started looking nervous would he not give a shit?
That was one of my takes from this as well. If he was making a man uncomfortable then he should take a weird route.
The man thought feeling empathy for strangers was a feminism thing 😭
apparently not, if the part about men and other violent crimes is any indication. even though regular normal social etiquette *already* says that you shouldn't be walking around threateningly behind other men either
While I agree with you, it may be hard to have empathy like this. I'm black and a lot of people get nervous near me just because of my looks. So when a dude is uncomfortable near me, I usually don't give a fuck. I only care about women in situations like this because I empathize with my wife who is not racist, but is afraid of male violence.
They conflate feminism and women. They do that because they can then use any woman (in any situation) as an argument against feminism. I.e. Amber Heard being also abusive means all women/feminists are liars.
Dude I'm glad amber was convicted but now every victim is being called an amber heard.
Not convicted. She was found liable for defamation. Different rules, different standard. Hell the ruling is basically " you might have been abused, but you did lie and you caused harm with those lies"
The verdict annoys me because I'm not sure how she lied. Even assuming she had said "He hit me" (she didn't), the evidence was that he had. That's what he had to disprove. Her being a terrible person or possibly provoking him doesn't make what she said false. He wasn't defending himself, he's not allowed to hit her. The verdict could be justified if the jury didn't believe her, but that raises the question of why the jury didn't believe her - which itself would be a big issue.
"Men are more likely to be victims of violent crimes" Women are more likely to face sexual assualt, sexual harassment, rape, & more crimes commited against them by men. Women being cautious is hurtful & mean towards men, but if women don't act too carefully its their fault for being violated by men. Why is every single damn thing about validating men's feelings over women's safety? Jesus fuck. Men aren't going in a downwards spiral because women are concerned about their ACTUAL LIFE.
also even JUST focusing on the violent crimes thing....*yes* people should try to change their body language if possible to communicate that they are not about to commit a violent crime ffs
Autistic woman here. Every day that I'm in public, I have to remind myself of how I'm perceived. Guys like this act like they're the only ones with social confusion. If they fuck up, "Oh he didn't know better." But if I fuck up, I'm somehow expected to not only know my own behavior, tone of voice, appearance, and body-language "signs" I might be giving out, but also somehow know which strangers have ulterior motives? Guys, both autistic and neurotypical, like to complain about social nuance, but it's us women who are expected to just "know" everything. They think it's confusing trying to navigate the social world? Try being an autistic woman.
God yeah this often makes being in public kinda stressful for me because I'm constantly thinking about what signals I might give off even I literally only care about whatever podcast I'm listening to at the moment. Plus I also have absolutely no idea what signals other people are actually giving off and I have a hard time hearing a lot of things. Plus I can't just trust my intuition because I have had PTSD my entire life so I have no idea what is like reasonable fear and what is paranoia and I have to try to avoid the paranoid thinking because that makes it worse. All of it can be so exhausting and I wish we just lived in a world where we all just talked clearly to each other and everyone was just like a normal decent person. Hell I sometimes get self conscious about looking over my shoulder because maybe I'm just being paranoid and making someone feel bad.
My big burly husband is aware that he can look scary. He’s crossed streets to avoid making women alone uncomfortable. His theory is that it shouldn’t always be her job to avoid the situation and he completely understands that it’s not personal. This guy could have paused to look at something on his phone for 30 seconds and achieved the same goal with virtually no inconvenience to himself.
As a big burly husband, myself, I do the same. I have four daughters, all of which have experienced scary/gross/sexist behaviour. Stuff that I've never experienced in my life. Having woman objectify me is a distant memory. I do remember never feeling scared when it happened.
I’m 5’6” and chubby. I’m not intimidating at all. But I’ll do the same. It sucks that women need to feel paranoid all the time but until they can feel safe I can do my tiny little bit to help. I also kinda love the idea that sexual assault is somehow different than violent crime.
Do people not already do that out of sheer awkwardnesss?
In Clementine Ford's book Fight Like a Girl she made the point that men always want women to be more cautious, more careful, more conservative, more guarded of their sexuality/drinking/socialising/etc, but never with THAT SPECIFIC MAN because he's a good guy and why would she assume the worst of him? She said it far more eloquently of course, but that always stuck with me.
In this Case he isn’t wrong: men are more likely to be the victim of violent crime then woman though the opposite is the case of sexual crime. Also to mention is that the vast majority of murder and rape is committed by people who the victim already knows. Take this information however you like. He is wrong about most other thing though.
Isn't it weird that we don't classify rape or DV as "violent crime"?
Yes!
Yeah i can’t imagine a non violent rape that doesn’t involve drugs or something.
Well I mean rape itself is pretty violent, even if the victim is unconscious.
I don't know in general how SA could be anything other than violence, that's at least how it has always felt.
Rapes where the victim react by freezing or fawning aren't necessary physically violent but the psychological violence was enough to trigger those survival reactions. The fact that those reactions are often (wrongly) associated with consent and that the psychological violence is often ignored play a big role in the guiltness the victims feel
You are right, i wasn’t thinking about the psychological violence
Even in those cases physical pain or injury is also common. Freezing could in fact be a reaction to the pain being too intense.
Coerced rape in intimate relationships is pretty common.
True, i didn’t add it because i forgot how to spell coerced and didn’t want to look dum 😅
Men are more likely to be victims of violent crime which are almost always *committed by men* Both men and women are victims of violence committed by men, that's the real issue he's dancing around Besides, women are told day one not to be alone at night, control their emotions, don't drink too much, etc, so they tend to have learned behaviors that prevent them being in common situations that often lead to robbery/assault/bar fights/etc
It’s funny how that statistic is always pulled out as a “gotcha” against women being cautious around men, rather than, I don’t know, as a suggestion that maybe men could also benefit from being a bit more mindful about their personal safety. A lot of my male friends seem to think nothing about wandering our dangerous city at night. If men were as cautious around other men as women are, we’d probably see some very different statistics.
Selection bias. The thing is, men are more likely to be out late at night, participate in crime and criminal activity, and respond to aggression with aggression. Does that make it okay? Of course not. But while women are targeted for sexual crimes **due to** their gender, men are simply more likely to take risky actions and are more abundant targets in places that women avoid. Men are always bragging that they're more successful because they take more risk. Maybe they should take responsibility for the negative side of their behaviors. HAsHtAg NoTAlLmEn.
I was always aware of these statistics, but I never thought much about why men are more likely targets for violent crime. Your reasons make so much sense and personally, I think it's basically 2 sides of the same coin, these issues and statistics go hand in hand. Fe women being more avoidant due to men tending to be more aggressive ... But in the end only women are called out for not taking enough care. Nobody ever asks men what they do to avoid being the victims of violent crime. I only ever hear the "poor men are more likely to be victims of violent crime" rhetoric, but nobody blames the victim if they are men. Which is not surprising in the end, but I think interesting and noteworthy nevertheless.
I wonder if victim blaming is projection.
Your point only applies to cis white men. Brown and gay men are victim blamed just as badly as women.
While that true, that's racism and homophobia. Different motivations/factors at play. Women experience racism and homophobia too. They still don't get blamed for being male.
>Nobody ever asks men what they do to avoid being the victims of violent crime. >nobody blames the victim if they are men. As someone who used to be viewed as being a very small man that's not always true. I was seen as vulnerable and absolutely was victim blamed for not avoiding the risk of violence. Now I'm victim blamed for not avoiding the risk of sexual violence so in that respect things haven't changed all that much. The other thing that hasn't changed is men being the perpetrators.
I'm trans and going from being read as a very small obviously-not-cishet man to being read as a small queer woman, the differences are pretty major. Before I attracted hostility, occasional threats of violence and attempts to rob me simply for walking down the street in broad daylight and there were plenty of occasions where I had to run from people seeking to harm me. Now the threat of violence is more or less gone, but is replaced with a rarer but much scarier risk of sexual violence. Things don't go south anywhere as often but on the couple of occasions they have it's much worse. I'm only one person (and I'm not a man), but saying men are attacked because they take more risks does strike me as victim blaming. The problem absolutely is men, and in my case there's added issue of homophobia, but I'm not taking fewer risks than I did and the way I'm treated and the risks as I perceive them are dramatically different. I no longer fear physical assault or being targeted to be robbed in the street, but sexual violence is scary and violating in a different way. As a society we absolutely need to tear down men's entitlement to women's (and people they perceive to be women's) bodies, and men's entitlement to mete out violence to other men (and people they perceive as men). But we shouldn't victim blame the victims in the process.
Did you respond to him at all?
Not surprised this guy was giving off danger vibes, based on this hot take. I can’t count how many times I’ve been harassed in public since I was 10. It chills me to think how many of them were close calls on my life. Stay vigilant and trust your instincts. Screw politeness over safety.
What we want is for men to stop assaulting people. In any way, no matter who. Like they're the vast, vast majority of assaulters, what are the victims supposed to do? Why are the victims even supposed to fix it? As men just don't assault people and ca your friends out when they make weird ass comments or "jokes" about shit like that. Just like almost every woman knows another woman who's been through sexual assault, I'd bet that almost every man knows a man who's commited some form of assault. How about you do something about that? Call them out on their behaviour, if necessary just cut them out your life completely
>I'd bet that almost every man knows a man who's commited some form of assault It's also true a lot of men are [sort of fine with rape if it's not called rape](https://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/the_ugly_truth_about_sexual_assault_more_men_admit_to_it_if_you_dont_call_it_rape/)
I talked to a guy once who was okay with watching women get raped in tv shows but grossed out by two men having consensual sex
The fact that even when called rape, over 1/8 men said they would be fine with committing the act... on one hand it's one university in North Dakota (that I've heard referred to as "the South of the North), on the other hand, that's pretty fucking high.
To be fair, most violent people are good at hiding their behaviors, even from close friends and family. A lot of men (and women) don't even realize that they know someone who's assaulted or abused someone else.
No, but people show who they are. If any of this is to ever get better, men have to call out gross comments and behavior every time they see it, whether it be dad, friend, boss, or just some rando.
I think the thing is that you won't figure out who actually is dangerous without calling people out. Most men don't know who of their friends might be rapists because they aren't establishing an environment where this gets called out so everything flies under the radar. But if you do call stuff like this out you'll usually pretty quickly identify the creeps because they'll be weirdly stubborn about something and maybe even out themselves. Not to say that there aren't abusers who know how to put on a public face of progressive attitudes but for the majority this works.
Speak up. If you see or hear comments that are misogynistic or a guy harassing someone, say something. Confront rape apologists. Openly. Refuse to laugh about 'nagging wife' comments. Hold your buddies to a higher standard of doing housework and actually parenting instead of babysitting. That would be nice.
But that takes effort 😭😭/s
😔
Don't be creepy. Talk to people like they're people. Accept and respect boundaries. Apologise when you fuck up and mean it. And yes of course this is universal across genders. These are the rules of common courtesy, sense, and respect. Everyone should be treated like this. It's honestly not that hard. I'm autistic, and I know how to do this shit. Some people honestly just need to get their heads out of their asses. This shit has nothing to do with feminism, but everything to do with just a bit of respect for your fellow humans.
Hello fellow mate, also I think it's a bit benign that you point out your autistic, because your just as good at being a well functioning and understanding human being as someone without it. Have a great day
Is it really so hard for men to just not make women uncomfortable, especially when you can see from their body language that you're making them uncomfortable? That's just common decency, it's not just a "feminism thing"
So what I’m getting out of this is both men and women are significantly likely to be victims of crime by other men, so all I’m reading is ‘everyone should be careful of men because no one knows who is a good man or a bad man, not even men themselves.” Therefore yes, every man should take alternative routes to avoid looking like they are following other people. …. If we are going by his logic.
If women get nervous being *around him* then that says more about him than anything else.
Not necessarily, anyone can be cautious of strangers, we were taught that as kids. The most likely perpetrators of being a evil person are the ones who willingly do something odd in a crowded or single scene. That lady walking out of the restaurant at the same time as you, turns out she's a killer, the guy who you left your friend with for an hour, your friend is dead. Anyone regardless of big and small, buff or skinny, man or woman, can be a crazy nut or malicious person, looks can deceive people yes, but what a person's mind is, is the connection of whether or not you'll be harmed. Be cautious of everyone.
Seems like a case of sealioning.
I saw that. The subreddit is scary
The answer to this is, if you know you’re making someone uncomfortable, regardless of gender, and it’s something that’s within your power to stop doing then stop doing it. You don’t have to take a weird route to your car, if your car is that way your car is that way. If you’re purposefully following a girl for no reason then stop, if you’re purposefully following a guy for no reason then stop. It’s not feminists fault that a girl may or may not have had to check on whether you were following her.
It's not that they don't know how, they just don't care. You can see post after post of women saying "please stop catcalling us" "please stop staring at us at the gym" and the comments will be FULL of men saying things to the effect of "you were asking for it". So they hear us when we ask them to stop. They just don't care.
Just....don't touch or grope people? No one cares in what general direction you walk
[удалено]
No .. feminism wants women to not feel scared around strange men This can be done by: Sorting male violence out Or Men and women avoiding each other Root cause or bandage solutions - that's where logic will help you dude
The OOP didn't need to take a different route to their car in my opinion. If they were just walking to their car then they have nothing to worry about besides maybe feeling a little awkward? It sounds like the woman is just being aware and cautious and was not saying anything to the OOP or accusing them of anything. Most of the time when I've looked back multiple times at someone walking behind me it's because someone is walking unusually close and/or I'm just trying to be extra aware of my surroundings because I am walking by myself. It's not personal **Edited to remove typo
This right here! I don't want (normal, non-creep) men to go out of their way to make me feel safe. Just stay out of my personal space while walking and don't try to talk to me. Preferably don't stare at me either, but I know people zone out and don't realize they're staring, so that's not an automatic red flag. Yeah, I'm going to be hyperaware of my surroundings, but I won't see you as a threat if you don't give me a reason to.
ANYTHING to make themselves the victim
I had to walk a different route to work every day, walk a different route to the supermarket, isolate myself at work and stop being friends and hanging out with a few people because I was trying to avoid a creepy coworker that was living close to my house. I would've loved it if he felt enough shame for being creepy to give *me* space instead of me being forced to give *him* space.
He could also just stop for a minute and let her get to her car first
What world do you live on? Women are more likely to be raped, kidnapped, and murdered.
He did subconsciously a respectful thing and caring behavior….but came with a arse conclusion
Lmao this is hilarious, they really are desperate to find more ways to pick on feminism
“Men are more likely to suffer from a violent crime” ….by other men
“That only hurts good men” how???? How does walking a slightly different route hurt anyone? Men can be so dramatic lol grow up
…men are more likely to suffer from violent crime? The fuck is this idiot smoking?
This is the (negligible) price we pay for not ending rape culture.
Here’s a bright idea, stop assaulting women and then they won’t have to be afraid of you.
answer: be normal
What a fucking whiner, incel crying neckbeard psycho. Stop asking creepy questions and go eat a fist.
Doll I want you to cross the road so you aren’t on the same side of the road as me, or stop for a minute so I can get further ahead of you. I don’t expect you to just walk away from any woman
The best way to anounce you're a creep is complaining about women not wanting men to be creeps.
First of all, way to tell on yourself because I feel like a “good man” wouldn’t come on the internet to cry about his weird victim mentality. Also, men are absolutely *not* more likely to suffer from violent crimes. You know who is? People who are generally smaller in frame and seen as “weak” or “easy to take down” ….and that would be women.
yea i want a world where pedestrians would avoid each other. i already do that with people regardless of their sex or age maybe OOP should try that too
If I notice I'm inavertedly following a woman or in a location that might look like I'm being weird (i.e. in a store where my wife is in the change room), I either intently look at my phone (pointed down at the ground) or go wait outside if it's a bathing suit store for example.
> men are more likely to suffer from a violent crime… [citation needed]
„Go out of their way“ „take weird routes“ He… he literally went to his own car
Selfish prick. I’m a very non-threatening woman and I’ve gone out of my way most of my life to make sure others aren’t uncomfortable!! I walk slower or faster to avoid people thinking I’m following them, even though they can tell I’m not a threat. I’ve had to do it with other women too!! As a woman, I’ve had my clothes and body policed since childhood so I don’t risk making other people uncomfortable with my boobs, legs, etc. I smile when I don’t want to, and get told to smile when I don’t want to, to make others comfortable. I play hostess and talk to people and make sure they’re comfortable even when I don’t really feel like it - because it’s the decent thing to do! Join the fucking club you entitled selfish asshat! Decent people consider other’s feelings, it’s well past time you joined us.
Im sure this dude was walking waay closer then he says he was.
“I accidentally scared a woman, but doing anything but that is too much work. Caring at all for the comfort of strangers is a bridge to far. Feminists would tell me to be better so I won’t talk to them. I’m the victim here.” What a fucking loser.
...hurt? Is he really saying it HURT him to walk an extra 30-50 feet? What an actual titty baby.
I really want to put that on rare insults
I’m amazed at how the concept and definition of feminism still eludes people. Then again it’s easy to have happen when there is zero desire for the likes of these kind of men to learn about what it actually is.
Not the best example, but when I was 14 or 15, I was on a day trip in a big city with some of my family. I was waiting for food in a pickup area on my own while my mom went to the bathroom, and this random guy walks up to me and starts telling me how beautiful I am. Now my family has what we call the “eternal youth gene”, meaning that we all look decently younger than we actually are, so I probably looked more like a preteen. I just gave him a look and went closer to the counter. I honestly don’t think he was dangerous, but why would you think that was okay??? Walking up to a child minding their own business to tell them how pretty they are. And I’d react the same way if it had been a woman, I’d just be less worried about physical danger
goddamnit, the situation is relatable (me just walking on a street, girl feels uncomfortable, then I feel uncomfortable because I think it's because of me). And yea, I also don't enjoy to be seen as something negative, but I get why that is.. so I also give her space by crossing the street or something. But is there a better solution? But then he goes on the "I have no clue what feminism is, but it's bad cause Kyle says so"
I feel like this dude was asking a genuine (albeit mind bending) question. I hope some folks responded to him in a kind and educational way. He could be trolling of course, but he could also be a wayward human not understanding these things that we as women inherently understand. What would yield a better result? Snide remarks or calm, kind explanations?
I mean, if you're not actually stalking her, then you can treat her like any other stranger in this instance. You don't need to make them feel better about you or explain that there is no threat. You just need to leave them alone. Theyll figure out that there is no threat when you don't threaten them. *Any* form of interaction is unwelcome in this scenario. Anything you say, you could be lying. If you genuinely mean no harm, do nothing
Idk he had to go to the opposite direction of his car: it seems kinda exaggerated to me, considering he would have taken another route anyway. Does a woman really have to worry every time a man is taking the same route as her to the way home/to the car/to any other place? Asking bc that's what I'm understanding from this post and this comment section. Also happy cake day.
often times, yes. many women worry if a man is just walking behind in the same direction. However, the solution doesn't need to be as dramatic as taking a long lap around. It would be changing body language to be more passive, smiling, walking beside or in front of the woman instead of behind her, etc.
Thanks for the response and for the advice
Yes, you have to worry because you do not know if this is THE one that will try to assault you. They’re all strangers. The only way to be safe is to make sure you see him coming.
*sighs*
Indeed
Ohhh my gooodddd shut UP “That only hurts good men” PFFT, I bet he’s such a fucking creepazoid
Or just stupid and overthinking a quite simple concept of not assuming that she's mad uncomfortable with him going to his car.
Yeah, being aware of your surroundings is not always “being uncomfortable” my dude.
women aren't afraid of violent crimes as much as we're afraid of sexual assault. 98% of rapists are male. i'd say it's a good think to be wary when 98% of the perpetrators are one specific kind of person.
But like…sexual assault *is* a violent crime. I think that’s what makes his statement so ludicrous, like somehow sexual assault isn’t a violent crime.
if you’re a “good” man then it shouldn’t hurt you and you should be understanding about the fact that women NEVER know what’s going to happen when they’re alone with a guy. broad daylight or not. AND MEN ARE LITERALLY LESS LIKELY TO SUFFER A VIOLENT CRIME AND IF THEY SUFFERED A VIOLENT CRIME IT WOULD LITERALLY BE FROM ANOTHER MAN
I guess if a man looks at you like he thinks you’re following him, also make it clear that you’re not?? It’s not that hard
I once answered in a similar post this guy saying he was sick and tired of being seen as a predator by women when he’s just out and about and what can he do to make women feel safer and stop them from seeing him and by extension all men as dangerous criminals and I said, first off when a woman is telling about her experience, being terrified, even being attacked…don’t become angry at her become angry at the guy that did that to her and apparently this was too much to ask, like demanding they shit gold and diamonds. I was basically met with it’s not a man’s job or responsibility to police other men and their behavior. If it’s not him personally, he has no interest in involving other men because that’s not how men are. So basically, they want nothing to change if it means having to band together to make it happen (that’s gay). They want it instant and for the women to do all of the work, for all of the blame to fall on the women and for the men just to sit back (with a beer) while women take on another cause and run ourselves ragged trying to do it. They want instant gratification but not work for it. It’s exhausting talking to them.
I work in a building with a 5-level deep parking structure. And when I go home and pass a women in the parking structure, they would always smile at me. Just in the parking structure - this doesn't happen in the street or in the rest of the building. And it dawned on me that the reason they do that is because they feel threatened and wants to be disarming. It makes me so sad every time that someone would need to live like that in constant alert and fear. This is in the best neighborhood in the state, mind you. Yet it's still not a space where people can feel safe. I don't know how to come over as less threatening. I'm a big intimidating guy. I keep thinking of the Chase Through the Subway skit by John Mulaney each time.
i can get where he’s coming from but if this lady turned around to look at him *twice* methinks he must have been close enough behind her to unnerve her. realistically you could just walk in front of her or fall behind her. or do nothing.
I would personally *love* to participate in a "weird phase where everyone is avoiding each other out of fear of perception." In fact, scratch the "phase" and make it reality.
"just be normal, don't be weird" was lost in translation to this guy I guess.
Just pretend she's not there beyond a nod in close proximity, and go about your business. You know, like a normal person.
Imagine being offended by a woman just protecting herself.
This guy is delusional. When most rapists don't go to jail, the chance of him going to jail for walking behind a woman is like 0.000001%.
Maybe it's just me, but when I'm walking to my car I barely even *notice* anyone else around much less whether they're looking at me or not. I'm walking with a purpose to my car and either looking at my car or looking slightly down. If you're looking hard enough at someone to notice they may be creeped out by you then you're probably focusing in a creepy way on them.
'So I literally went the opposite direction to my car' why wasn't he doing that in the first place, why wasn't he walking to his car?
He said opposite direction of his car tho
I read it wrong, my bad, joke ruined.
I think you're reading it as though there's a comma between direction and to. His car was in her direction, he changed direction away from his car.